EverydaySpy Podcast - What CIA Knows About UFOs But WON’T Admit!

Episode Date: September 1, 2026

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Two and five Canadians will hear the words you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca. My experience at CIA, that is an area that remains very compartmented. And that could be one of two reasons.

It could be because there is significant interest, and that's why it's so heavily compartmented. Or it could be because it's an area that's not important. It's a distraction. So they compartment it so it doesn't distract from other operations. One of the areas that I've been quite interested in and where I've done a lot of research and I've done some work in the private intelligence and private investigation side is with UFOs. The place where UFOs really connect with the federal government is when it comes to aviation safety and predominance of power. So FAA and the U.S. Air Force and the U.S. military are very invested in knowing what's happening in the skies above the United States. and that's of primary interest to them.

When they can rule out the direct threat to national security of UFOs, then they become less interested. That said, when you have unexplained aerial phenomenon that are unexplained, that can't directly be tied to anything that is known of the terrestrial world, then they're left without an answer to their question. They don't know if it's a threat or not a threat. But I think the scarier concern for the U.S. national government or for the U.S. federal government, the scarier concern that nobody talks about is what if the UFO isn't alien? What if it is actually a cutting-edge war machine that we are eons behind ever being able to replicate? Or the other concern is that it's a system, it's a machine from a foreign power that's doing intelligence. collection. Correct. So it's not just military purposes. It's actually collecting data. Well,

they fall. A lot of times the federal government will see the two is the same. It's a hostile tool from a foreign government. So collection of information is a hostile act. Absolutely. That's why the Espionage Act exists. That's why it's a criminal offense if you're committing espionage in the United States as a U.S. citizen or a foreign citizen. So I guess they keep digging until they can confirm it's not a threat. But it's, it's, It just, and you're saying that there's not, from your understanding much evidence that they're doing so, it could be because they're compartmentalized. But you're saying private intelligence institutions are trying to make progress on this. Yeah, it's really difficult to know.

There's a best that, yeah, there's an economic interest in the private intelligence world. Because, for example, if you understand why certain aerial phenomenon, are happening over a location, then you can use that to inform investors, whether to invest in that location or avoid investment in that location. But that's not a national security concern. So that doesn't, it doesn't matter to the federal government. Could these UFOs be aliens? Now I'm going into a territory of you as a human being wondering about all the alien civilizations that are out there. The humbling question. We are not alone. You think we're not alone?

It's an improbability that we are alone. If by virtue of the fact that sentient human life exists, intelligent human life exists, all of the probabilities that would have to be destroyed for that to be true, simply speak over the galaxies that exist that there's no possible way we're alone. It's a mathematical equation. It's a one or a zero, right? And for me, it has to exist. It's impossible otherwise, rationally for me to think that we are truly the,

the only intelligent life form in all of the universe. But to think that an alien life form is anything like us at all is equally as inconceivable. To think that they're carbon-based, bipedal, humanoid alien species that just happen to fly around in metal machines and visit alien planets in a way that they become observed is, it's just silly. It's the world of sci-fi. Well, let me push. Every good scientist, because we always assume that they're superior to us in intelligence. Yes.

When any scientist carries out an experiment, the whole objective of the experiment is to observe without being disclosed or being discovered. So why on earth would we think that this superior species makes the mistake of being discovered over and over again? So to push back on that idea, if we were to think about, us humans trying to communicate with ants. First, we observe for a while. There'll be a bunch of PhDs written,

a bunch of people just sort of collecting data, taking notes, trying to understand about this thing that you detected that seems to be a living thing, which is a very difficult thing to define from an alien perspective, or from our perspective, if we find life on Mars or something like that. Okay, so you observe for a while. But then, if you want to actually interact with it,

how would you interact with the ants? If I were to interact with the ants, I would try to infiltrate. I would try to figure out what is the language they used to communicate with each other. I would try to operate at their physical scale, like in terms of the physics of their interaction, in terms of the information methods, mediums of information exchange with pheromones or whatever, however the heck, ants. So I would try to mimic them in some way. So in that sense, it makes sense that the objects we would see, you mentioned bipedal, yes, of course, it's ridiculous that aliens would actually be very similar to us. But maybe they create forms in order to be like, here, the humans will understand it.

And this needs to be sufficiently different from humans to know that there's something weird. I don't know. I think it's actually an incredibly difficult problem of figuring out how to communicate with a thing way dumber than you. People assume, like, if you're smart, it's easy to talk to the dumb thing. But I think it's actually extremely difficult when the gap in intelligence is just orders of magnitude.

And so, of course, you can observe, but once you notice the thing is sufficiently interesting, how do you communicate with that thing? So this is where one of the things I always try to highlight is how conspiracies are born. Because many people don't understand how easy it is to fall into the conspiratorial cycle. So the first step to a conspiracy being born is to have a piece of evidence that is true. And then immediately following the true evidence is a gap in information. And then to fill in the gap of information, people create.

an idea, and then the next logical outcome is based on the idea that they just created, which is an idea that's based on something that was imagined in the first place. So the idea, the factual thing is now two steps away, and then three steps away, four steps away, as the things go on. And then all of a sudden you have this kernel of truth that turned into this wild conspiracy. So in our example, you talked about humans trying to communicate with ants. Ants are not intelligent. There's no ants are not intelligent species. There are drone species. that's somehow commanded through whatever technology, whatever,

spoken like a typical human, but yes. Whatever biological thing is in the queen, right? But they're not, it's not a fair equivalent, but let's look at gorillas, or let's look at something in the monkey family, right? Where largely we agree that there is some sort of intelligence there, or dolphins, some sort of intelligence, right? It is a human thing, a human thing,

to want to observe and then communicate and integrate. That's a human thing, not an intelligent life thing. So for us to even think that a foreign and intelligent alien species would want to engage and communicate at all is an extremely human assumption. And then from that assumption, then we started going into all the other things you said. If they wanted to communicate, wouldn't they want to mimic? If they wanted to mimic, wouldn't they create devices like ours? So now we're three steps removed from the true fact of there's something unexplainable in the sky.

Yeah, so the fact is there's something I'm explaining on the skies, and then we're filling in the gaps with all our basic human biases and assumptions. Exactly. But the thing is... Now we're getting right back to Project Northwood. We need some plan. I don't care how crazy the idea is, guys. Give me some plan. So that's where we come up with.

Maybe it's an alien species trying to communicate her. Maybe it's an alien, a hostile threat that's trying to take over the world, or who knows what. Maybe it's... But you have to... you have to somehow construct hypotheses and theories for anomalies, and then from that, amidst the giant pile of the ridiculous, emerges perhaps a deeper truth over a period of decades.

And at first that truth is ridiculed, and then it's accepted that whole process. The Earth revolving around the sun? Yeah, the Earth revolving around the sun. But to me, it's interesting because it asks us looking out there with SETI, just looking for alien life, is forcing us to really ask questions about ourselves, about what is life, how special. First of all, what is intelligence? How special is intelligence in the cosmos?

And I think it's inspiring and challenging to us as human beings, both on a scientific and engineering level, but also on a philosophical level. I mean, all of those questions that are laid before us when you start to think about alien life. So you interviewed Joe Rogan recently. Yeah. And he said something that I thought was really, really brilliant during the podcast interview.

He said that he's going to love hearing that. But he said that he realized at some point that the turn in his opinion about UFOs happened when he realized how desperately he wanted it to be true. this is the human condition. Our pink matter works the same way as everybody's pink matter. And one of the ways that our pink matter works is with this thing, with what's known as a cognitive bias. It's a mental shortcut.

Essentially, your brain doesn't want to process through facts over and over again. Instead, it wants to assume certain facts are in place and just jump right to the conclusion. It saves energy. It saves megabytes. So what Joe, what Joe or Joe Rogan, I feel weird calling him Joe, I don't know him, but what Joe identified on his own. Mr. Rogan. What Mr. Rogan identified on his own

was his own cognitive loop. And then he immediately grew suspicious of that loop. That is a super powerful tool. That is something that most people never become self-actualized enough to realize that they have a cognitive loop,

let alone questioning their own cognitive loop. So that was, when it came to this topic specifically, that was just something that I thought was really powerful because you learned to not trust your own moment. Just for the record, after he drinks one whiskey, all that goes out.

I think that was just in that moment in time, like, you know. A moment of brilliance. A moment of bliss. I think he still is, you know, is, he's definitely, one of the things that inspires me about Joe is how open-minded he is, how curious he is.

He refuses to let sort of the conformity and the conventions of any one community, including the scientific community, be a kind of thing that limits his curiosity of asking what if? Like the whole, it's entirely possible. I think that's a beautiful thing. It actually represents what the best of science is,

a childlike curiosity. So it's good to sort of balance those two things, but then you have to wake up to it. Like, is this, is there a chance this is true or do I just really want it to be true? Like the hot girl that talks to you overseas? Yeah. Yeah.

For a brief moment. There's actually a deeper explanation for it that I'll tell you off the mic that perhaps a lot of people can kind of figure out. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research.

Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca.