EverydaySpy Podcast - Why the CIA Bans Processed Food (But You’re Told It’s Safe)

Episode Date: February 4, 2026

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The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. Jonathan and I talk a lot about what we think is a, it's not even a conspiracy, what we think is an overt, you know, planned by the government to make us sick and then sell us pills to make us better. Can you talk a little bit, you know, our favorite example is the ultra-processed food study that came out.

And like, lo and behold, but Europe has known for decades, America was finally like, hey, it seems like something weird's going on with ultra-processed food and your health. And then very quickly after that, the government was like, that study was incorrect. They did the analysis wrong. The algorithm was incorrect. And ultra-processed food is really good for you. That's like cuckoo pants crazy to me and Jonathan. Is there anything you can speak to about sort of the food complex that is this country? And like, we're like, you know, food ink people. We're like, you know, those kinds of hippies. So anything you say is safe here. But I'd love to know your take on sort of what's going on with the industrial food, you know, complex in this country? You know, this didn't really come to my awareness until after I left CIA.

Because you can imagine when you're at CIA, you live in a vacuum. And you don't realize how many resources are at your disposal when you're at CIA. So working at CIA also means you're working with Navy SEALs. You're working with Army Delta operators, Marsok. You're working with all the most elite services out there. to your exact point, M, our institution does not feed elite operators processed food. They don't. And they train us to find whole food sources.

They train us to sustain ourselves in the field on whole food sources. And they constantly build us back without prescription drugs as much as possible. and when they turn to using prescription solutions for elite operators, that's when they take those operators off the line. So they understand... Wait. This is mind-blowing. At an institutional level, they understand that optimized effort comes with whole food and non-pharmaceutical solutions. And they give us all the resources, the tools, the training, the methodologies, the staff, the support that we need to optimize ourselves, because they need us to be optimized. And when the day comes that we can no longer be optimized without

some sort of processed or pharmaceutical solution, that's when they replace us with somebody else. And that's that when I was in the middle of it, I just felt like I was king of the world. I was getting all this great, you know, great meat sources and great vegetables and great fruits. And, you know, I was, I was getting hours dedicated in my day for meditation and mindfulness. this, I was like, this is easy living. It wasn't until I left it. I was like, oh, I see what was happening here. I see why you paid somebody $250,000 a year to be my exercise scientist, to calculate exactly what my caloric intake should be, my exercise output should be, to measure my muscles and my V-O-2 max. I see why you did that. And I also see why the rest of us are stuck paying $115 a month

or an hour to some trainer down the street to plan of fitness. And being sold toys with our food. And yeah, exactly. And that becomes the most available food source is a processed food source. One of the things that you speak about is influence on people and people also influencing us, knowing when we're being influenced and how to increase our influence. Both of those, one is I'm not going to be able to assert myself, get promoted, maybe make a relationship I need to, my finances might struggle, my overall health might struggle if I'm not able to

have control over my own life. And the other is, how do I, if I have an idea and I want to put it out in the world, I want to influence Andrew to like what I'm talking about. Like, can you describe some of the tools and strategies that you've learned to both understand when someone is controlling you and how to influence other people? There's a rule of thumb that CIA teaches us that's scary. but simple, right? And that rule of thumb is that you are either in control or you are under control. There is no other option, right? And it's one of those simple binary dichotomies that, you know, we all use to teach people a simple truth. There's, in reality, there are lots of other gradations between the two. But when you take that at face value, it's really about understanding that every day

you have to choose whether to take control or whether not to take control. And understand that if you choose not to take control, you're giving control to someone else. And when you talk about influence, Jonathan, it's a perfect example because you hear people talk about influence all the time. And there's books about influence and there's gurus who teach you how to build influence and business coaches who teach you how to build influence. If you haven't discovered your natural-born spy skills, then somebody else may be using theirs against you. CIA teaches us there are only three types of people, those who manipulate, those who motivate, and those who are being controlled by one of the other two. I built a three-minute CIA-style quiz designed to help you unlock your

secret psychological advantage and identify your biggest blind spot. This quiz will help you weaponize your natural gift and use it to get ahead of 99% of people in power, money, and purpose. the first link in the description below or scan the QR code on your screen right now to take the test. I want you to discover your hidden spy skill and use it before someone else uses theirs against you. And you also hear the word persuasion, and there's YouTube videos about persuasion, and there's TikTok videos about persuasion. Persuasion and influence oftentimes people misunderstand them as the same thing, when they're two very different things.

requires that you put active energy into someone in person, right, and that you were using emotional ploys to persuade their way of thinking. Influence happens when you are not with somebody, but they are still recalling your knowledge or your belief or your ideas. Or your lies. Or your lies, exactly. M. So persuasion comes before. for influence. And you have to invest in mastering persuasion if you ever want to be a person of influence because the influence is the roof on the house. But all the other structure of the house is built on persuasion. How do I become a better persuader? First, you need to understand that people don't care about your point of view, but people care very much that other people

understand their own opinions. So if you want to build persuasion, if you want to be persuasive, you have to learn how to understand and identify what other people value and then demonstrate back to them their own values. If they care about freedom, then you need to highlight freedom. If they care about environmentalism, then you need to talk about environmentalism. If they care about the future of their children, then you need to talk about the future of their children. But if you sit there and talk about, you know, the incredibly high tax rate that you have to pay, when they're worried about how they're going to put food on the table, you're not going to persuade them, right? So if you can learn to...

Meet people where they're at. Correct. It's something that we call perspective. If you can gain perspective and let go of your own perceptions, then you have a real opportunity to build persuasive appeal, which will turn into long-term influence. What I love about you, Andrew, is that you could have any number of jobs. Like, if I were talking to you right now, I'd be like,

this is the best social media influencer manager I've ever met in my life. And then when you're talking about politics, I'm like, this is the best politician I've ever heard explain Israel to me. Like, when you talk about, like, you know, costume, I'm like, this is the best prosthetic makeup artist I've ever met.

You're like that guy. You've got this, like, enormous amount of knowledge about all these different things, but they all go together because of your training. Right, and that's what I find to be so exciting about owning and operating my own company. And my company is an education company, right? I'm essentially a giant international school,

and I love that because I get to offer people the opportunity to learn something new without forcing them or grading them or objectifying them to some arbitrary set of rules. It's an invitation to learn instead of a mandate to learn. Are there specific strategies to use to try and uncover what someone values quickly? Is it just listening to them? Let me give you a really great tool that blew my mind when I went to CIA.

So I was 27 years old when CIA recruited me. I thought that I was a good conversationalist. I thought I was pretty good with the women. I thought I was like at least a better than average social talent. And then I realized very quickly that I was a dumbass, right? And a big part of my dumbassery was that I spent most of my time talking about me, talking about my history, my experience, my qualifications, my ideas, right? CIA taught me that there's a very simple process to rapidly build trust and influence in other people.

And that process involves asking two questions and then making one validating statement. And then after that validating statement, you repeat the same cycle again. And that the process of asking questions and validating other people's ideas subconsciously makes the other person think that you are like them. And it makes them feel like they are interesting and they are important and they are relevant. And then they have a dopamine rush that makes them feel good being around you. Now you're a dating expert. What's a good intro?

Like role playing. You're going to ask M. You're going to persuade M. You're going to get influence over her. I mean, persuasion first. Obviously, it's a situation dependent, but are there like, is there a bank that you start with, like your go-toes?

Also, I'm an actor, so it's a little, I mean, I'm sure you are also an actor. I mean, that's kind of what you had to do as a spy. But let's do, can we do it? Let's do it. So M, I'm going to ask you not to act. I'm going to ask you to try to be genuine. I don't even know who I am, so this will be fun.

That's all right. So from what you've shared today, I already know you're a mom, and I already know that you're, and I've watched your channel enough to know that you've been through a divorce, right? So let me start with this, M. I will start with, what did you do first thing this morning with your kids? What was the first thing you did with your kids today? My kids didn't stay over last night, and my other one's in college.

But do you want me to take an example of when my kid was at my house? No, I want to start right where you were. Oh, of course you do. I can see what you're doing. Okay, go ahead. I need to meet you where you are, right? My older son's in college and my younger son is at his dad, so I woke up alone today. What's it like to wake up in an empty house when you know you're a parent?

It's two things. It's kind of a sadness, kind of a pull. My son describes it as there's an invisible string, you know, that's a that's very, very long, because wherever he is, I'm attached to him. And then there's also an element of kind of like, I don't have to wake up, make a lunch, and get the kid on the bus by seven in the morning. So a little bit of relief as well. I swear that you just described what I wonder about my own future.

Like when my children leave, I feel like I'm going to be sad, but I also feel like I'm going to be happy? Should I write you a check for a million dollars? Is that what happens? So what does that mean for? What does that mean for your work productivity? Does that make it very easy to work? Or does that make it kind of distracting to work? No, I think I'm pretty practiced at it. I've been divorced for 12 years. So I have a rhythm that I've fallen into when I'm alone. What does the rhythm for work look like?

Well, it means that I can take my time, you know, making my protein smoothie or whatever I'm going to do for breakfast. And then I get to sit down, do some emails, you know, look at my phone, check the news, just once. Don't want to get obsessed about it. I actually also start my day with a protein smoothie. I use a protein called True Greens. Have you ever heard of them? They're pretty amazing. No.

So what's the protein that you use? I use, well, they used to sponsor our podcast. I use Puri, which is a vegan protein powder. I also use vegan proteins because, first of all, I just find that they are easier to digest. But also, I find that vegan proteins are a more viable solution for long-term muscle growth when I'm older. That was the cycle of three. That was a cycle of three. The last cycle had one question and a follow-up.

But I could feel the rapport building. It was happening. How did it feel to you, though? M, you know what was happening to you. So how did it feel to you? It felt like I was at a bar and a guy was trying to get me into bed. But that's just because that's my fear about people, like, trying to connect with, you know, me. Also, she doesn't like to talk about herself in, in, in, where,

and ask questions specifically. So, like, you're putting her in a very awkward position. I definitely, I felt like, oh, you're relating to things. You're finding the similarities, not the differences. So, yeah, I would imagine that it does. It feels like a connection. It feels like you get me. It feels like I want to share more with you.

It feels like I'd go on a date with you if you gave me your number. So here's the twisted side of this very effective dating technique. I don't want to make a spy baby yet, though. We need to have three days first. He doesn't have protein in the morning. He never has imagined his children leaving the house. All of that was fake. No.

Actually, the twisted part here is I now know a great deal about you, M. But you still don't know anything new about me from that process, really. Right. I know that you start your day in the morning. I know that you like to move slow. I know that you have a child in college and a child that's at your husband's house. I know that you used to have a protein sponsor for this podcast. Did I not ask enough questions about you?

Is that why we're not going on a date? I grew up on Blossom, M. If you want a date, I will fly to L.A. and take you to dinner. I will just tell my wife, I have to do this. But what you're saying is that what you were able to do was establish rapport, established trust, and this kind of connection without you actually having to reveal anything about yourself so that if that's the relationship you need to establish out in the field, you haven't really given up anything of yourself.

Correct. It's a tool that we call informational superiority. Now, you feel good being around me, hopefully, but you don't know anything about me. So when you meet your friend and you say, I met this guy, she's like, tell me about him. You're like, I actually don't know anything about him. But he's very interested in me,

and that's what's most important. But we've all had that moment. We've all had that moment where we realize, I actually don't know anything about that person. That's me and Jonathan. I was like, why are we here? That is now, essentially, Jonathan, what we are able to do now is we just created a systematic process to make that happen all the time. With clients, with customers, with possible future dates, with in-laws, with business partners.

It's predictable because the human brain is predictable in any language and any age. So what you've created is a way to get information, but more importantly, for someone to feel comfortable with you that you have shown interest. And because what most people actually want is for someone to be interested in them and to have space held for them and reflected back and finding similarities. There's nothing people love more than, oh my gosh, that person understands me and has little sparks of similarity. You're exactly right.

And the way that we talk about it at CIA is that the core need, the fundamental need for human beings that so often goes missed is the need for connection. And that connection is nothing more than feeling seen, feeling heard, and feeling present in a moment with another human being. And it's a very, very powerful concoction when you can artificially create that sense of connection for somebody else. Because it means that there will never be a lack of people who want to connect with you, even though they don't realize they're not connecting with you on a personal level. Well, I mean, this is also a dangerous tool to use too much, because if you don't know that you're doing it, the user of the tool can, you know, if you're not a spy, can cut themselves

off and actually, you know, not form that reciprocal relationship. These are, you know, to be used carefully. Correct. And that's what you're getting at there is really the difference between what we call a trained person and an untrained person. M talked about narcissists earlier. Narcissists are untrained. They go to the school of on-the-job training. They learn through the school of hard knocks. They don't learn how to genuinely connect with another human being. A trained person learns how to use these skills to gain practical advantages for operational goals, whether that is a goal in your everyday life or a goal in your career or a goal in your personal life. But also a trained person understands that they have to accept genuine connection in order to be optimized as an individual.

You have to trust somebody. You have to connect with somebody. Otherwise, you will never be optimized. You will lose that basic core need of human connection. I mean, I'm fascinated about that because the movie version of The Spy is someone who is isolated. You know, you have to give up everything. in order to join this world. I've seen Liam Neeson do that many times. You can't have the relationship. You have to be willing to leave at moments notice and everyone in your,

and of course, the hero of whatever movie this is, finds the one person they don't want to walk away from and they end up changing their life. But what you're saying is actually, you know, fundamental to optimization is that there has to be a break in the character. You can't be the spy 24-7 or you won't function. Correct. You have to have, it's,

it's a matter of energy transference. And I don't mean woo-woo, hippie, LA energy. I mean actual like national lab scientific energy. Human beings are energetic sources and we transfer energy to and from each other. There has to be a time when you recharge your energy because so much of your day is spent shedding energy. You put energy into your children. You put energy into your spouse. You put energy into your employees. You put energy into strangers. You put energy into the Uber driver who's making you nauseous, but you don't want to yell at him. Like, you put energy out into the world all the time. You must have a way of recreating or generating energy. And one of the best ways to do that is by being around another energy source where you're in receive mode and they're pouring their

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