Fantasy Baseball Today - 2025 Shortstop Recap! Preseason ADP, Top-12 Finishers & More! (10/30 Fantasy Baseball Podcast)

Episode Date: October 30, 2025

Happy Halloween Eve! Shortstop is amazing entering 2026 (5:20)! ... Let's take a look back at preseason shortstop ADP (8:14). ... News (15:20): Trey Yesavage just dominated in the World Series. ... Let's get into the Top-12 shortstops from this past season, starting with Bobby Witt Jr. (24:30). ... Francisco Lindor is one of the most consistent players in Fantasy (27:38). ... Geraldo Perdomo was the biggest breakout in Fantasy (29:28). ... Elly De La Cruz took a step back (39:10). ... Trea Turner got back to running (42:30). ... Trevor Story stayed healthy and had a huge season (45:17). ... Bo Bichette did the same (47:41)! ... Will Gunnar Henderson bounce back (49:40)? ... CJ Abrams has produced nearly the same season two years in a row (52:51). ... Zach Neto is legit (55:42). ... Jeremy Peña took a big step forward (59:18). ... We wrap up with a quick look at 2026 rankings (1:01:14). We're doing a live podcast at First Pitch Arizona next week! We'll be discussing the biggest questions for 2026. You can help by filling out this survey: https://tinyurl.com/422w5jvv Subscribe to our YouTube channel: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠youtube.com/FantasyBaseballToday⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Download and Follow Fantasy Baseball Today on Spotify: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://sptfy.com/QiKv⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow our FBT team on Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@FBTPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@CPTowers⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@CBSScottWhite⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@Roto_Frank⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join our Facebook group at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/groups/fantasybaseballtoday⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sign up for the FBT Newsletter at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.cbssports.com/newsletters/fantasy-baseball-today/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ For more fantasy baseball coverage from CBS Sports, visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Fantasy Baseball Today podcast from CBS Sports. And first pitch, watching. Got a fantasy question? Email Fantasy Baseball at CBSI.com. Get ready to win your league. Well, fantasy. Now here's Frank, Scott, and Chris.

Welcome in to Fantasy Baseball today on Thursday, October 30th. Happy Halloween Eve. I am Frank Stample, joined by Scott White and Chris Towers. Today on the show, we are recapping. shortstop, preseason ADP, what went right and wrong? Who finished in the top 12? And then an early look at 2026 rankings. How'd I do, guys?

All right, so if you're not watching, if you're just listening, we did a cold open with Frank wearing like a scary clown mask. And then like while the little intro played, he took the mask off. And there are two funny things. One, you've got a big red splotch in the middle of your forehead from the mask. And also two, we can see your hair. Like this might be the first time I've ever seen your hair on the podcast I did it when we did our award show but I don't know if you're on it because it's it's

always hat Frank and now it's hair Frank and it's it's throwing me off a little but I'm feeling off my game he's he's also done the like hair tied up sticking straight up in the center of his head like an like an onion he's done that look before man bun I don't remember that back in the day not a man bun right because a man bun would be in the back of the head. This was like straight up in the center. Like a troll doll. I've gone through many different hairstyles. I cannot say that all the

hairstyles I've ever tried have been good ones. For those not watching, I am dressed up from the 1988 classic killer clowns from outer space, which I'm sure everyone here has seen, right? Like, you know, one of the 10 movies that I've seen

is a guy clowns from outer space. Chris, it looks like you're dressed up like your grandfather, My grandpa, yeah, this is, I'll show that that's my grandfather was a somewhat notable singer in Cuba in the mid-1950s or so. And there's this picture of him wearing the same outfit I'm rocking. So I am, I am Eccidro camera for Halloween tonight. My actual Halloween costume that I'm going out on on Friday is a little more involved. And I just didn't feel like putting on a wig and, you know.

That would have been amazing, though. Chris for the good of the show. No, the wig's already up there. I can't. I can't do. I got my hammer if anybody wants to take a guess. And Scott, if I didn't podcast with you every single day, I would legit think that your job, your job is NFL referee right now. I'm selling it.

This is official referee. It looks great. Yeah. He's not buff enough. I feel like every referee now is like, it used to be like a note, like, just the one guy. And now every referee is like jacked. So my wife doubted that this was the actual ref jersey they wear. And I think it's just because the sleeves fit me in such a baggy way

because I don't have the beefy arms underneath. Yeah. Yeah. So that was her subtle dig at me, I think. You don't got the pythons. Yeah, Ed Hockley. I think his son is the Ruffly. He was the first one.

He was like the OG jacked referee. Now, now they're all trying to be at Hockley. Referee sons who are also jacked and so on and so forth. I would have done the show in the mask, but honestly, we were talking beforehand. It was very muffled. These guys can barely hear me. So I started the show with it, had to take it off, and here we are. Hope everyone has a great Halloween.

Let's take a look at Shortstop. And the state of Shortstop, Scott, finally, we get to the best position in fantasy baseball. It's a good one. It's a good one. Yeah. I suppose in deeper leagues, the common problem at shortstop is the defensive threshold is so high that there just aren't many players in pure number who play shortstop. So in those really deep leagues with the middle end field spot, the drop off is pretty intense. But for the league sizes that most listeners are going to play in, it's going to be hard to make sure all that's shortstop.

worth drafting are distributed evenly. I was doing putting together my, my top 300 for roto leagues, actually, which have a middle infield spot, but of course the 12 team variety. I was putting that together yesterday. And the way I put together my top 300, I go off my position by position rankings, but then I draft 12 teams off of that to make sure I'm balancing categorical needs and positional needs appropriately. and like I felt like it took somebody coordinating between all 12 teams to make sure that all the short stops were distributed in a way that fully accounted for their talents because there are so many good short stops as has been true for probably what like a decade now it's been a stacked position and it remains so.

And I think you could very reasonably in a 12 team league. fill three lineup spots with a shortstop. Yeah. Your shortstop, middle infield, and D.H spots could all very easily be shortstops. And I feel like even in a 15-team league, assuming the guys I have ranked in the top 15 at shortstop go in that order, I would feel pretty good about all 15 of those guys as my starting shortstop.

To me, it goes down to Jacob Wilson. I don't feel bad about 16 and 17 either, personally. Well, I have Danesby Swanson as. 17, so... Okay, he's my 15, so we're not even talking about the same guys. Yeah, I think there's... I think there's 17, and I could talk myself into... I don't love Colson Montgomery, but I could talk myself into him.

Ezekiel Tovar, bounce back, I think, is possible. Carlos Correa, there are plenty of more than viable short stops out there. Mm-hmm. And speaking of what you guys just said, I mean, filling multiple positions with shortstop, we did our first mock draft earlier tonight when we... we're recording this Wednesday, October 29th. And two of my first eight picks were shortstop. I took Bobby Witt in the first round and then Jeremy Pena in the eighth.

And he just felt like the best player available, a little bit of power, a little bit of speed. We'll talk about him. It feels like a good value for Jeremy Pena. Yeah, I thought so too. So we'll talk about him a little bit later on. Let's take a look at preseason top 12 shortstop ADP, according to Fantasy Pros, which included Yahoo, CBS, NFBC, fan tracks, and RT sports drafts. We had Bobby Witt Jr., followed by Ellie Dela Cruz, Gunner Henderson,

Muki Betz, Francisco Lindor, Trey Turner, Corey Seeger, O'Neill Cruz, who no longer has shortstop eligibility. CJ Abrams, Willie Adomas, Matt McLean, who no longer has shortstop, and Boba Schitt. So again, that's the top 12 pre-season ADP. According to the Fangraphs, Player Raider, seven of those actually finished in the top 12. That's a 58% hit rate, the same amount as third base. Biggest breakouts at the position, Geraldo Perdomo, just massive. Out of nowhere. Nobody could have predicted season here.

Preseason ADP was 4-51. He likely was added off the waiver wire in a lot of leagues as well. He finished 15th overall in Roto. Not a shortstop. 15th overall. 15th overall. The top scoring shortstop in head to head points leagues

and provided $27.6 of value in 12-team Roto format. So he was just unbelievable. We will get to him in just a little bit. Biggest bust at the position And I think there's a few different options. I think Gunner Henderson and Mookie Betts just based on being first or late first round picks, I guess in the case of Mookie Betts, they both finished outside the top 60.

So like they didn't wreck your season, but they didn't come close to returning value either. I mean, I feel like you've been a little harsh with your bust picks here because like you, you pick good players when you usually highlight the top bust at a position. You know, if you want like a scenario where a guy just completely flopped and ended up, if he thought he was going to be valuable and he wasn't, then you look at like Ezekiel Tovar and Mason win. Obviously drafted much later, but still did not come close to meeting expectations. I think there's an obvious one. It's just that he's not shortstop eligible next season.

O'Neill Cruz. Yeah, O'Neill Cruz. He was like 36th and ADP. He finished 26. second at the position. Did he finish that low? Yeah, and it was only because he stole 38 days. Yeah, the batting average is tanked his overall value, yeah.

He had a huge April, and then was terrible after that. You missed a little bit of time with injury. I think you could also make a case for Anthony Volpe, who was still being drafted, relatively early. He was the 15th shortstop last season. He finished 28th. And again, Matt McLean, he's not eligible, but I think he would also count as a fairly sizable bust. Yeah, O'Neill Cruz, by the way, finished 170th overall, despite 38 steals.

I mean, it's when you have a near... It was 38 steals and that was it. Yeah. It was 61 RBI, 62 runs. The 20 homers, I guess, are... Even for a shortstop, that's... It's okay. I mean, it's not...

It doesn't kill you, but... That was tied for 10th at the position. It's really the batting average. When your batting average is that low, the roto formula is just going to kill you over that. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure we'll get into O'Neill Cruz more. Maybe when we get to outfield or whenever, but he's definitely a polarizing player. We had our first mock draft here on Wednesday night, and he went earlier than I would have taken him, I think, round five in a 12th team league. Yeah.

So I think it's fair to say he's going to be polarizing. because some people are going to be clinging to that upside still that he has yet to manifest, but the guy's 27 now. Yeah, I think people don't realize he's not really at that point in the aging curve anymore. Yeah. Again, that is O'Neill Cruz that we were just talking about,

and we'll break him down a little bit more on our outfield recap and early rankings look there as well. Let's hit our first break. Before we do that, just want to remind people, Chris and I are doing a live podcast at First Pitch, Arizona. week discussing the biggest questions for 2026. We have created a Google survey, and you can find the link in the podcast and YouTube descriptions.

So be sure to fill that out so we can get as much data as possible. It's things like who will be the SP4 next season. What roles do we expect Roki Sasaki and Mason Miller to be in stolen bases for Juan Soto and Josh Naler? So the more data we get, the better it is. And, you know, it'll help us out when discussing that on the podcast next week. I'll take in the survey, Frank. I've taken it. Let's go.

I'm going to look for your responses. Also, if you are going to be at first pitch, Arizona, make sure to pack a Hawaiian shirt because we are doing a live Kokomo Friday edition. So we're going to be all decked out. We're going to hand out some Hawaiian lays and stuff. Bring your sunglasses. We're going to have a great time.

Let's take our break, and we'll be back right after this. Welcome back in Fantasy Baseball today. Before we jump back into the shortstop position, some quick news and World Series update. The World Series is currently 3 to 2 in favor of the Blue Jays. So the Dodgers wound up winning that marathon game 3. The Blue Jays bounced back, big home run from Vlad Jr. in that game. And then in game 5, that will be known as the Trey you Savage game.

Seven innings, one run, 12 strikeouts to zero walks. He had 23 whiffs on 104 pitches. And I know if you watch the games, you've heard the broadcast, you've probably heard it a million times by now. But I just want to reiterate, the way that his season has gone is truly incredible, starting at A ball, up to high A, double A, AAA, AAA, making the majors, and now in the World Series,

throwing a 12 strikeout effort against the defending champions is just from start to end. I don't know that I've ever seen something like that from a pitcher. It's been an amazing season, and it's going to be really interesting to see how the drafting public reacts to this in drafts next season. Yeah, I've been as somebody who's done

all his rankings now, obviously they're in a constant state of adjustment and I feel like I'm going to have to adjust up here with you Savage after this performance because I had been I'd been ranking him fairly conservatively. He'd had a few

really eye-popping starts that I think if obviously caused his name value to rise, but it had been very hit or miss because in between those great starts, just kind of like three walks, four runs, you know, just mess starts,

very mess starts. And I wasn't sure if that unique arm angle and the splitter, if that was something that was going to sustain in terms of how effective they were, or if the league would kind of get used to it. But now I think out of nine starts regular season and postseason included five of them have been straight up bangers. And what I particularly liked about this start against the Dodgers is it wasn't all about the splitter.

The splitter was still great. But 14 of the 23 whiffs came on the slider. So we're seeing you savage. We're seeing to make adjustments against a team now that he's faced more than once. Right? He started when he started game one. Yeah. So, you know, he comes back against the same team and he makes some adjustments and he has probably his best start yet.

Certainly his most impactful start yet. He is, I think, sort of uniquely well suited to face this Dodgers lineup, which only really has like, I don't know, two and a half right-handed batters that you're really scared of because he, including the minors, had like a 650 OPS allowed against righte. which is really good. Against lefties, it was like 4.30 or something. It was crazy low. He has massive reverse splits. And when you look at his pitches, it makes sense. He's got this weird, this crazy good splitter.

But his slider also doesn't move to the glove side. It's a weird pitch that kind of moves like a screwball. Because he's so over the top in his delivery that most of his sliders move to the arm's side, which is very odd. And that's usually how you get opposite-handed hitters out. You throw something that moves away from them. And so that, I think, makes him uniquely well-suited to get lefties out. I still have a little bit of question about how this whole thing's going to work out in a full season against more righties.

And you'll notice, I think both times he started against the Dodgers, I think Tommy Edmund hit right-handed against him both times. And Tommy Edmund's obviously a switchheader. So that kind of tells you the Dodgers, a very smart team, are aware of the platoon edge that your savage has on lefties. But I don't know, if that slider can be a plus pitch for him, maybe it doesn't matter. And he's just an ace. I think that's within the realm of possibility. And we were talking before the show that, you know, in your ranking shot, you had him behind Schlittler and Nolan McLean, kind of the two other. big second half breakout rookie pitchers.

I think Yassavich belongs in that group now. Yeah, so it's Schlitler, McLean. I have them 36 and 37, Emmett Sheehan, who's not a rookie, but he's obviously not very experienced as a starter and shows big upside. He was behind those two. And then some veterans like Ranger Suarez and Nick Lodolo, and then you get to Yassavage, Misarowski, and Bubba Chandler. So kind of a second cluster of rookies.

he's half a dozen spots behind Schlittler and in McLean. So I guess in formal poll right now, do you want Yesavage over Mizorowski? Yes. I think I would say yes. Yeah. I think he's more polished as a starting pitcher. Yeah.

I'd already ranked him that way. Okay, so you savage over McLean? No. No. You savage over Schlitler? That one's close. I think that one's really close. Yeah.

I like McLean, I think more than Schlittler. I know Schlittler was really, really great in the second half as well. Yeah, I think that's the right range. Those three should be basically clustered together. You have burns ahead of all of them? Yes, I have burns ahead of all of them.

You know Savage ahead of Emmett Sheehan. Let's presume let's presume Sheehan has a rotation spot secured and we know that going in. Would you take I think I take your savage. I don't think I would.

I think right now I would rank it. Chase Burns, McLean, Sheehan, Yassavage, Littler, and then Mizirowski. That's how I'd rank those. And just to fact-check myself, he's made eight starts in between the regular season and the postseason Trey Yassavich has.

And four of the eight have been bangers. Four of the eight have been met. Yeah. And it might work out that. way, right? I mean, when you rely on a splitter that much, obviously he has a good fastball. It's over the top. It's dominant. He has a slider as well. But, you know, we've seen this with other splitter pitchers that, you know, there could be inconsistencies and obviously he still is a young pitcher. So, you know, again, we might just get lots of highs and maybe some lows from you, Savage.

Maybe he's a little bit inconsistent. But right now, I mean, flashing those highs, I mean, his upside looks very, very high for next season. Quickly run through the rest here, Lawrence Butler, who had underwent surgery in early October to repair a tear. in his right Patelor tendon said he will be fully ready for spring training. Jordan Lawler has started playing center field in the Dominican Winter League. He's never played there as a pro, but he needs to find a position if he wants to get regular playing time for the debacks. That's weird because third base should just be open for him, right?

It feels that way, yeah. Well, you would think. But I guess they also have another prospect coming Tommy Troy, so I don't, maybe they're just trying to figure all this out. He's played, he played mostly second. base this past year and maybe they're going to resign a hyenae i'm i'm not sure tommy troyes prospect stock has he had a great year but it was in two very hitter-friendly affiliates and the eggs of velocities weren't that great and i'm just not sure

tommy troyes fully restored as prospect stock it's probably just to keep their options open this offseason trying lollar and centerfield and yeah you know if they bring back a eugenio swaras that's the path for lollar yep Christian Scott expects to be a full participant with the Mets during spring training. He had hybrid Tommy John and internal brace surgery back in September of 2024. Once regarded as a top prospect, so we'll see how he looks during spring training. John Heyman reported that the twins are hiring Derek Shelton as their new manager. Shelton was most recently the manager of the Pirates.

He was fired back in May of this year. He is, you know, well regarded and respected around the league, but it kind of fizzled out and didn't end well with the Pirates. So I'm a little surprised that he found a job this soon, I guess, with the twins. And speaking of new managers, the Padres had a second interview with Albert Pujols earlier this week. So might be on the room. Apparently that interview lasted nine and a half hours. That just seems performative.

Okay. Seems like overkill. What? Seems like more of a hangout than an interview. Yeah, I just feel like you hit like the six hour mark in an interview. You're not really going to learn anything. Like they weren't grilling him for nine and a half hours. Surely they like brought in some food at some point.

I mean, maybe that's it. Maybe they're just like, is this guy going to crack under pressure? If I were him, like if it was just a nine and a half, question, question, question, question, I'd be like, guys, I made $300 million in my career. I'm done. I don't need this job that bad. All right, let's get back into short stops taking a look at the top 12 from this past season. This is according to the Fangraphs player raider. So this is for Roto in Categories League.

I'll mention fantasy points per game as well. Some other head-ed-ed points tidbits in here. But number one, no surprise, it was Bobby Witt Jr. who averaged 3.6 fantasy points per game that was also tied for first. At the position, he took a step back across the board everywhere except for steals. Those actually went up, but it was still a great season. He's one of the truly elite players in fantasy. He's extremely durable as well.

Chris, any concerns about the numbers coming down this year for Bobby Witt Jr. No, concern wouldn't be the word I would use. It's just, is he just a mid-800s OPS bat? In which case he's a clear step down for most of the other first rounders, and he's more like a Francisco Lindor type. Or, you know, we saw a near 1,000 OPS from him in 2024, which, you know, that may end up going down as a career year. I know he's only 24 years old, I think, and so 25.

You don't expect guys to have career years that young, but it happens occasionally. Bryce Harper's best season was probably his age 23 season or whatever it was. So it happens occasionally. I could see that being the case. I could see Bobby Witt just being a really good hitter instead of one of the five or six best hitters in baseball. And there could be some concern there, but it's not enough to move him down the rankings in any meaningful way.

It's just maybe you prefer once. Soto, I think I'd still take Bobby Witt. Yeah, I think for Roto leagues, for 5 by 5 category leagues, we all have Witt third overall behind the obvious top two. I think I feel that way, Frank. He went fifth in our first mock. Yeah, I was surprised he went fifth. To me.

Yeah, I'm going to strike a more optimistic tone here. Not that you were being pessimistic, but I think it's more likely, actually, that Witt bounces back to some degree, because he had put together back-to-back-30 home. homer seasons, 30 plus homers, back to back. And then he dropped to 23, which is a pretty big drop. But he hit the ball just as hard. His pull air rate was a little lower, but not enough that's going to really raise concerns. He still hit 295, so he's a batting title contender.

Oh, he's a legit 300 hitter, I think. I would say Bobby Witt is the safest bet in the entire player pool to be a plus contributor in all five. categories. Does that seem fair? Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think of Otani now as more of like a 20 steel guy, but I still think that's like a plus contributor. Fair. So I it, but that's semantic. Yeah. I yeah, I think we're in agreement there. Bobby Witt, regardless like Roto, he's a top three to five player drafted head to head points. Maybe he drops down a touch. He's more like, you know, maybe seven to 10, something like that, but a clear first rounder and probably the safest player in all fantasy baseball is Bobby Whit Jr.

Number two this past season was Francisco Lindor. He also averaged 3.6 fantasy points per game that was tied with Bobby Whit. Incredibly consistent. He's finished as a top 12 overall player four years in a row. This has been his average season for the last three years. 265, 31 homers, 110 runs, 91 RBI, 30 steals. So, you know, Scott, when you ask the question right now, I thought Lindor, but he's not really a contributor in batting average, but

Right. Everywhere else he is. Right. Jose Ramirez, I guess. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, Lendors basically put together the exact same stat line three years in a row. It was basically his third straight 30-30 season. I know in 2024 it was technically 29 steals. But, you know, that's kind of an arbitrary number there, 30 anyway.

It's basically the same. Three years in a row. And it was kind of particularly satisfying, I guess, this year. because remember he had those rough couple months mid-season where he was playing through a fractured pinky toe. But then it healed and he came roaring back and still managed to salvage his usual stat lines. So I think I feel very comfortable with Lindor as a late first rounder again.

I don't ever want to see a France, what's wrong with Francisco Lindor comment ever again. Yeah. ever again. Yeah. Yeah. I actually got him early. April.

I actually got him early in the second round in this first mock draft we did. So you may not even need to spend a first round pick on it. Yeah, totally in agreement there. I think he's right there at the one two turn regardless of format. Roto, head head head head points. I think Lindor is just rock solid right at that one two turn in a 12 team league. The number three shortstop was Geraldo Pardombo, maybe the biggest breakout in all of fantasy this past season. he was the top scoring shortstop in total head-to-head points as well.

Hit 290, 20 homers, 27 steals, 198 combined runs plus RBI. I know his expected stats mostly supported it, but I've had a hard time figuring out why. Like what adjustments did Perdomo make to his game to get him to this point? Like the expected stats say he deserved this, but what do he do to change it? The only thing I could really find is that his pulled air rate is pretty good. good and his barrel rate, you know, got a little bit better, but he doesn't really hit the ball hard. I just, I don't know, I couldn't really find much to explain why this breakout happened.

My biggest thing would be, I think he mostly knocked out the like truly bad contact from his game. Pop-ups were down. Fly balls were up, but he hit the ball a little harder, line drives were way up, ground balls were down. He pulled the ball on the air a little bit more. I think that's the best explanation I can come up with. And that combined with just phenomenal plate discipline and bat control could be enough where it's like, yeah, the individual pieces as a hitter don't necessarily look great, but the lack of flaws. You know, now that like the power is still below average, but it's creeping up to where it might be like 45 grade at it. of 80 instead of 35 grade. And the contact skills are so good.

He's a pretty decent athlete. I don't know. I think being skeptical is reasonable. But I think it's worth keeping in mind. I'll say three things. One, he was a top prospect. He wasn't like the best prospect of baseball, but he was a top 100 guy who made it to the majors very,

is very young. Two, hold on, let me see if I can remember. Two, the underlying numbers do back it up in a way that I think most people are going to be more skeptical of anyway. And three, he just kept getting better. And that's really what I like to see about an out-of-nower breakout. Like, we'll talk about Gunner Henderson shortly, but he had that, it wasn't out of nowhere, but like he took this huge step forward in the first half of 2024.

And then he faltered in the second half a little bit. He was still very good, but he wasn't quite as good. And then in 2025, he was still very good, but he wasn't that guy. And so it's like, was the second half of 2024 kind of a harbinger of things to come? Wait a second. Wait a second. Is Mr. Full season numbers are more, how do you put it? Full season numbers explain more than partial season.

But in Perdomos are you betraying your principle here? No. You're defining principle. No, but in Perdomo's case, the full season numbers, like, he doesn't have to be what he was in the second half. And what he was in the second half was, like, I don't know, legitimately one of the 15 best hitters in baseball. His ex-wobe over the final 250 plate appearances, which is basically the second half of the season, 387. That is like a top 15 mark in baseball. Overall, in the second half of the season, he had 325 with a 950 OPS.

I like to see the guys, and you see it in his season. Good April, good May, pretty bad June, then just figured it out and got way better in the final three months of the season. I'd love to see a guy figure it out, get figured out, and then say, you know what? No, I've got the adjustments. And I think that's what we saw from Geraldo Pardomo. So I think skepticism is good.

and reasonable, but there is a difference between skepticism and cynicism. And I think there are going to be too many Geraldo Pardomo cynics, and there will be room for even if you are skeptical. This was a top 15 player in fantasy last season. He'll probably go outside of the top 50, I would guess, in most drafts. If he goes 40th, okay, I can see being out on that. if he goes 60th, I kind of feel like you should just take the chance.

If he goes like 80th, you should just draft Heralda Pardomo every time. So it's going to matter, depend where he goes. Okay, so I got a few follow-ups here. Because I expected to be more skeptical of Pardomo when I made out my rankings. I thought there are so many good shortstops,

why stick your neck out for this? surprise breakthrough as huge as it was. But, you know, one with still suspect exa velocity's and a lot of room for skepticism at this loaded position. But it's, he is, and I think we were referring to him as like the Jerks and Pro Far for this year where there's a little bit of that, yeah. Studly breakout season, but a lot of reason for skepticism. And so he's going to fall really far and drafts to the point he's going to be a huge value.

Worth noting, what, eight years younger than Jerks and Pro Far? The difference, okay, that's one difference, but other differences here, Perdomo hit 290. Perdomo stole 27 bases. Perdomo, if he's legit, can contribute in so many more ways than ProFar. It makes you root for him to be legit more. Like, we can gain so much from this guy being as good as he showed in 2025. So that makes me want to roll the dice on it a little more. That's part of it.

I'll also add if he loses five steals, but everything else is the same, there's still a lot of room for him to be, you know, really good player. If he loses five homers, still plenty. Like there are different ways for Heralda Pardomo to lose something and still be a super valuable player. The one thing I will say, 720 plate appearances, you can't count on that. That's a massive number. Even in a good lineup, even hitting at the top of the lineup, you should expect the counting stats to take a step back just because you can't project anyone for 700 plus plate appearances. I put out a poll the other day just asking where people think the ADP will wind up on Prodomo for next season.

The option is top 50 pick 51 to 100, 101 to 150 outside the top 150. And 51 to 100 was the overwhelming winner. 55%. I'm ranking him 40th, so. 51 to 75, 76 through 100. I'd be very interested to see because that I think is where the break-even point's going to be. If he's like 70th and ADP, I'm going to have some Herald or Pardomo. If he's like a hundredth, I'm going to have a lot of Heraldo.

He's not going to be a hundredth. I'm telling you that right now. I've had some conversations with people where they're very, and I think projections aren't going to like him, especially the projection systems that don't take into account the stack data, so I think he could be really cheap. All right, we do have to move on. Let's take our final break when we return more short stops right after this.

Welcome back in fantasy baseball today. If you're wondering why we're dressed like this, it's Halloween Eve. So happy Halloween to all. Let's get back into recapping the shortstop position. Number four this past season was Ellie Dela Cruz. He averaged 3.1 fantasy points per game, which is tied for seventh. He takes a little bit of a hit in that format. Pretty identical seasons year over year.

year except in the stolen base department. Big drop from 67 to 37. It was also just a tough year for Ellie. His sister passed away in June. He also battled a left quad injury for most of the season as well. Even with that, he played every single game. Chris, it feels like the past two seasons are kind of the fantasy floor for Ellie, where he in 24 finished the fifth overall player. This past season finished 17th overall. That feels like a pretty good range. Yeah. And I think he, he just clearly wasn't healthy in the second half of the season. I think that is such an obvious explanation for why Dale McCru, because remember, at like the All-Star break,

we were talking about this breakout that Ellie Daylor Cruz was having, where he had cut his strikeout rate to under 25% for the first time. He was hitting 284 at the All-Star break. The power was there, 18 home. He was on a near 40-40 pace at the All-Star break. It was probably like 35, 45, 45, something like that. And then he was just miserable in the second half. Only four homers and 12 steals, 236 batting average.

You mentioned his sister passing away. He didn't take any time off of that. Like, that's really tough. These are human beings. We don't talk about that stuff a lot because it's unknowable how these things will affect players. And I just generally don't feel comfortable talking about. that but like I think in the aftermath of it I think you can look at it and say yeah that's a pretty reasonable explanation for why someone would get derailed and then obviously he was playing

through the quad injury his sprint speed dropped I just I think he wasn't right in the second half and I almost don't hold it against him at all like I I basically view Leda-Cruz exactly the same I did and I'm probably more likely to draft him this year as a result of that because I think his price is going to drop a little bit. It's still a first rounder, but probably going to be more like the eighth or ninth pick rather than the fourth pick like he was last year. I am going to say that I agree with the way he had made huge strides as a hitter at the beginning of the season, everything, all the ways we wanted to see De La Cruz and Brueffie had

and then just totally fell apart in the second half. And I think it's mostly tied to the injury and whatever else. I agree that, you know, I'm willing to give him a pass for that second half as a hitter. However, as long as Terry Francona is managing the Reds, I don't think we're going to see a 60 steel season for Dela Cruz or even a 50 steel season again. I think I think 40 is kind of what you should have in your mind is the hopeful scenario for stolen bases with Dela Cruz, 2540 guy with like a 260 batting average, which is still probably a borderline first rounder. but last year, part of the reason we saw him pushed up to like the fourth overall pick in some Roto leagues as people were thinking, oh, 30-70 for De La Cruz. And I just don't think that outcomes on the table for him anymore.

All right, the number five shortstop was Trey Turner, 3.5 fantasy points per game was fourth best in points leagues. He won the National League batting title with a 304 batting average, 36 steals his most since 2018. he did miss 20 days in September with a strain right hamstring. He's dealt with hamstring strains two years in a row. Scott, I just wonder if maybe that deters Turner from running as much as he did next season. Either way, I think he'll still be valuable, good batting average, 30 steals, but perhaps not as aggressive with these hamstrings popping up two years in a row.

This was his highest steel year in seven years, the 36. highest skill season and seven. So I don't know that we're depending on him stealing 36 again because we hadn't really been, we hadn't seen him achieve quite those heights in a long time. So I think Trey Turner, we have a pretty good idea who he is at this point. He's going to help him batting every,

he's going to help in steals among the players going in the first two rounds. He's going to be probably the worst bet for home runs, but he's not hero in home runs. And, you know, at 32, maybe we see some regression at some point but not really any evidence of it yet so I think I think the mid to late second round range

in Roto is where you'd be looking to take Trey Turner. Have we ever called him the lazy Susan? Has anybody? Yeah like as a nickname. Why? The Trey Turner The Trey Turner the Trey because like a lazy Susan I get it spins and it's, you know. When you first heard what a lazy Susan was called,

was it not the funniest thing you ever heard? I don't know if it was the funniest that. I watched Monty Python at a pretty young age, so like I can't say it was the funniest thing I've ever, but it's a good name. I think that's the first time I've ever heard that phrase in my life, to be honest. Just now? Yes.

But you know what we're talking about. No, he knows. Probably not. You like put it in the middle. Like you ever go to like a, Like a dim sum spot where they have like the thing in the table in the middle of the table and it turns you put the tape the plates on it and you just share. Oh, okay. Yeah, I know what that thing is.

I had no idea it was called that. Like how did it get that name? I'm sure we could look it up, but I feel bad for whatever Susan it was named after. Yeah. It was, oh gosh, apparently it was named after Thomas Jefferson's daughter. Oh, that seems rude. Yeah. Anywho, let's get back to short stops.

The number six shortstop was Trevor Story. He averaged three fantasy points per game, tied for 13th. Definitely takes a hit in Points League format due to plate discipline, but he stayed healthy. He put together a massive, massive bounce back here for Story. 25 homers, 31 steals. He was one of 10 players to go 2530. He hits the ball really hard for a shortstop as well.

he can opt out this off-season I'm very interested A to see where he winds up if he does that and B where the ADP winds up because feels like there's a pretty big variance here in terms of A, what he could do on the field and B, like his health

we just outside of this season he has not been able to stay healthy This is the one I am skeptical of more than Pardomo where Story was awesome last year I kept waiting for the bottom to fall out and outside of that one stretch in like May it just never happened

he was awesome but it just feels like there's more ways for it to go wrong than right if the price is too high

if it's like you know a hundredth overall or 90th overall or whatever I have no it's so hard to talk about this right now

because we just don't have the data and with guys like Trey Turner you just take him 20th whatever doesn't matter but like Trevor Story story, it really depends on what he's going to cost.

So I took him 106th in our first mock draft. That's fine. That's fantastic. Yeah, that feels good. Nobody would complain about that. Yeah, I was thinking about taking him at that same spot. Somebody in the draft pointed out that they'd seen him go as early as round three in an NFBC draft. Ouch, yes.

Nothing. That is some pie in the sky optimistic thinking, given his injury history, the fact he'll be 33 and probably not playing at Fenway Park anymore next year. It sounds like he's going to opt in. Does it? It's okay, well, that'll help. But there's still the other factors. Like, just asking him to stay healthy again after it had been so long since he had done it.

And he's in his mid-30s. It could work out again. But, like, I only want him if it's at the sort of discount where I got him here, 106. Or where do I actually rank Trevor's story? I rank him 82nd. So that's still pretty conservatively, I think. Yeah. The number seven shortstop was Bo Bichet, 3.3 fantasy points per game.

That was fifth best. And he proved that 2024 was an outlier injured season. He hit 311, 18 homers, 94 RBI in just 139 games. His season ended on the aisle with a sprain left knee, and that might raise some red flags for people. But it also happened on a collision at home plate. So it's not like a thing that happened while he was just playing. And, you know, he just made a back.

movement and boom he messed up his knee. It was just a collision at home played. So I'm not really worried about it. Free agent this off season, not sure if he winds up back in Toronto. I'm not sure it really matters because I think he's just such a great hitter. But Scott, we were all over this one as a collective podcast,

just buying in on the dip of Bobuchette this past season. Bobichette got back to the 300 plus batting average, the 800 plus OPS that we're used to seeing from him. And so success. He didn't reach 20 homers. And in fact, in the second half, when he hit 360, I believe. 370. 370?

I understated it. He had 370 in the second half and only hit... Six homers. Number pulled up. Six homers. Thank you. This doesn't look like the right splits page. Six homers with 370 batting.

So the power was... particularly this position as studly as it is. It was a little lacking. And my initial ranking for Bobauchette, I kind of scaled it back when I started putting together at the top 300 because even though he's a very safe bet for batting average, and that's a very big deal at the point in the draft from Boba Sheck goes. No speed anymore.

And at best, average for power, I would say a little below average. All right, the number eight shortstop was Michael Garcia. He no longer has shortstop eligibility. We spoke about him on our third base recap. So let's move on to number nine. Gunner Henderson, three fantasy points per game that was tied for 13th. It was a down season, which to me feels like it was kind of derailed by that intercostal strain back in spring training. I don't know that for sure.

I haven't read that anywhere. I haven't seen any quotes, but it just feels like it makes. It feels like it makes sense. I think Gunner is just too talented to have a season like he just did. But interestingly enough, he did fall off in the second half of. of 2024, he posted a 799 OPS. And then this year he posted a 787 OPS. So this is now a year and a half of posting a sub 800 OPS.

Chris, with all that being said, I still believe he's going to bounce back because of his age and just because I trust in the talent level. So in the first half of 2024, he had 28 homers. Remember, he was like neck and neck with Aaron Judge for ALMVP, AL home run lead. And then the home run derby ruined it.

him, Chris. And then the home round derby ruined him. He has 26 homers in 218 games since then. So that was 28 and 95 games in the first half of 2024, 26 and 218 since then. That like Gunner Henderson as elite fantasy option, that first half of 2024 is carrying a lot of weight there. On the other hand, the skills still look really good. He still hits the ball really hard. He still strikes out about and at an average, maybe a slightly below average clip. He's still a plus athlete. There is still so much going for Gunner Henderson. I think 2025 is probably the floor for Gunner Henderson.

He's still, what, 24 years old, 25 and 2026. I more or less expect him to get back to the 2024 overall level, which was right around an 890, 900 OPS, 30 plus homers, a lot of steals. I think that's where I expect him to be. I don't know if he's like the 40 homer guy we hoped he would be or even like the consistent 35 homer guy. It might be more like 28 to 30 homers. But he's going to hit 275 to 285.

He's going to steal 20 to 30 bases. It's just a really strong all-around profile. And I think there is a pathway to a, a top three finish for Gunner Henderson. There are not a lot of guys that you can say that about. And remember also with the intercostal strain in the preseason, kind of hurried back from that injury. And that seems like the sort of injury that a muscular injury in the trunk area

could be the sort of thing that kind of just wrecks you all season, particularly if you don't give it ample time to heal. We've seen that often with obliques, but intercostal, I think, would be the same sort of thing. So I'm chalking up some of the home run decline there for Henderson to that. And, you know, for as disappointing as the season was, stole career high 30 bases. So it wasn't all bad. The number 10 shortstop was C.J. Abrams, who averaged 3.1 fantasy points per game that was tied for seventh. He did that thing again, where he got off to a blistering start, and then he fell flat in the second half.

That's now two years in a row. He's done that same exact thing. When it's all said and done, the past two seasons have turned out very similarly for fantasy. It's 250-ish batting average, 18 to 20 homers, just over 30 steals. Scott, it's a very useful player for fantasy, and Abrams is still young enough where he could improve.

I just wouldn't expect it because we haven't really seen that happen. Like, if he ever puts together just a full season of him being dominant, like, yeah, obviously we'd get that. But we haven't seen that yet. Yeah, and for all the ups and downs, the last three seasons have kind of been the same for him. He's hit about 250, hit about 20 homers, stole 30 plus bases. And so that's probably who he is because he just turned 25 actually in October. He is still young enough that he could take another leap.

But I think we're to a point now where we shouldn't be counting on it from C.J. Abrams. So it's, this is where shortstop, I feel like, gets really muddled. There are some names that I rank ahead of this group that we haven't mentioned yet because they had down seasons or missed some time or whatever. But there's this group at the back end of the top 12. It's Bichette. It's Jeremy Pena. It's C.J. Abrams. And I feel like they all, they are of similar value, but contribute in different ways.

And so the order I rank them is almost going to depend on how my team is shaping up in drafts, particularly talking about Rotel League and balancing categories. My initial inclination just to have, you know, needing that one set of rankings to put out, my initial inclination was to go Beset, Jeremy Pania, and CJ Abrams. But I think I've inverted them now. I think I have the opposite. Yeah, I think I would put Abrams at the top of that list. Right.

Just because there is that little bit of hope. he could get better that I'm not sure is true for Pena and Bichette. The one thing I will say about C.J. Abrams, I don't know if this matters for fantasy, but like they got to get that dude off shortstop. Yeah, I actually have read a few things that he could move to second base. Yeah, he's a, he is not a shortstop, despite being a good athlete.

It's just, he's been one of the worst in baseball the last few seasons. And you never know how that stuff carries over. But I could see a little defensive downgrade being a good thing for him on the whole. So, you know, not saying you draft him as if that matters, but it wouldn't shock me if he was a little more consistent as a hitter with a little less of a defensive load.

The number 11 shortstop was Zach Netto also averaged 3.1 fantasy points per game. He started the season on the IL recovering from offseason shoulder surgery. I know I was worried about him and it turned out to be very dumb to worry about that because he returned and proved he is legit. Zach Netto, 26 homers, 26 deals in just 128 games. That's a 32-32 pace over a full season. He hit the ball a lot harder this year as well. Chris, I think there is a lot to be excited about for Zach Netto.

And look, the drafting public too, I've seen some crazy stuff like him going in the third round of an NFBC league as well for Zach Netto this time, not Trevor Story. He's going to be the biggest riser in both rankings and ADP from last year, partially because there was just fairly or not a lot of skepticism about his breakout in 2024. And then also he was recovering from shoulder surgery. He wasn't available for the first couple of weeks of the season. I don't really have a lot of criticisms of Zach Netto. Like bad batting average, but everything else is going to be awesome, I think.

He's a pulled air merchant. He has a 24% pull. air rate that's been 20% or higher each season in his career. The quality of contact underneath that got better. So whatever skepticism you had, fairly or not coming into the season, I think, goes away. He is really, really finely tuned for Roto especially. You know, if you squint here, it kind of looks like from a five-by-five perspective, it kind of looks like Francisco Lendor.

Exactly. going to say the same thing, just a little weaker batting average. Yeah, and you're not going to get the same run-in-R-BI production unless the Angels line-up takes a ridiculous leap. And points league. You're not going to get the same run-in-R-B-I production. Yeah, I feel very confident saying. Once Soto ain't walking through that door.

What if Kurt Suzuki turns Mike Trout back into Juan Soto? The points in Roto gap is wider between Lador and Nettor because Lendor strikes out a lot less and walks more. but for Roto, you know, I'm not saying you pass up Lendor hoping to get Netto, but that's kind of the appeal of Netto. He could do similar things. I will say, I think you can make a case that like from 6 to 13 at shortstop, it's a very, very small gap. Yeah.

I have bet six. I have Jeremy Pena 13th. Okay, I'd rather have Mookie bets than Jeremy Pena, but Jeremy Pena, but Jeremy Pena was a lot better in 2020. and the underlying data, you know, for Pena, for Bichette, for Netto, like all these guys, there's a lot to like about all of them. And I kind of think if you miss out on that first truly elite tier of like top 25 pick shortstops, you kind of have a full list of really good guys who probably should all go inside the top 100. Is that over at 13 shortstop in the top 100?

Is that too many? Let me see How many I put in there So my 13th shortstop is Trevor's story And I have 80 seconds So I have at least 13 in my top 100 Yeah I just think that that gap between

Whoever you have at 6 And whoever you have at 13 is just They should all be separated by like maybe 40 picks Which is It means 20% of the picks in that range Should be short stops Yeah That is pretty crazy stuff

Let's talk a little bit more about Jeremy Pena. He was the number 12 shortstop this year. He averaged 3.2 fantasy points per game. He took a big step forward as a hitter. He upped his batting average from 266 to 304. His OPS from 701 to 840. He lowered his ground ball rate. He upped his pulled air rate. The Astros kind of fumbled his injury, which was a fractured rib. No surprise there. The Astros kind of do that routinely. But Chris, how much do you buy the improvements we saw from Jeremy Pena. So this is one where the underlying data doesn't quite back up the breakout and he did

level off a bit in the second half, although how much of that was. I kind of feel like maybe he was playing through the injury, but yeah, he, he, and I don't think he did a rehab assignment. We were talking about someone yesterday or in the last podcast who also came back without going on a rehab assignment. I think Jeremy Pena just came back, missed like a month plus, and just, came right back into the lineup, which you kind of see it in the numbers.

August 736 OPS, uh-oh. Well, September, he went right back out and looked like the guy he was prior to the injury. 301 average 870 OPS. I am more skeptical of Jeremy Pena, and that's why he's 13th at shortstop. But 13th is shortstop, like I said, is still probably a top 100 pick.

I still think there's a ton to like about him. makes a lot of contact. The quality of contact got better this season. He showed a little more consistency with his swing. I think Jeremy Pena is a fallback option at shortstop, but he's a heck of a fallback option. I think, okay, I don't expect another 300 average, but 280, 20 homers, 20 plus steals in a good lineup.

I think that's all pretty reasonable. There's a lot to like about Jeremy Pena. All right, let's wrap up here with a quick look at shortstop rankings for next season. We'll also have an FBT Express episode that drops Friday morning looking at these rankings as well. For both of you guys, you have the same top six. So it's Bobby Witt Jr., Ellie Dela Cruz, Francisco Lindor, Gunner, Henderson, Trey Turner, and Mookie Betts. Let's stop there for a second. Is Mookie Betz cooked?

What do you think? I was leaning that way. I was for most of the season because he's in his mid-year. 30s, he never hit the ball. I won't say he never hit the ball particularly hard, but for as good as he was, his exit velocities tended to run low, but they got even lower, and I just thought it was a breaking point. He had reached a breaking point there.

But then his final 47 games, he saw that average exit velocity tick up a couple miles per hour, and he slashed 317, 376-516, looking kind of like the mokey bets we all know in love. And you know, you can't help but wonder if that bad illness he was dealing with when the team was in Japan in March, couldn't keep food down for a week, lost a lot of weight. And then the season started right away and he just had to go if he just wasn't at full strength for most of the year. And finally got to a point where he was feeling more like himself at the end.

And that's the prevailing theory for me right now, particularly since it's reflected not just in the top line numbers, but the exit velocities themselves. And given his track record, given that he plays for the Dodgers, I want to give Muky Betts as much benefit of the doubt as I can muster. I'm not saying he's still going to be a second round pick or a third round pick. But toward the end of round four, if he's there, I'm probably still. going to take him. Yeah, all that being said, I don't think we're seeing 30 homers again. No. That's the one thing. I think it's great batting average, great run in RBI numbers, kind of pedestrian power and speed. So for a roto context, you have to understand that, but I mostly agree with everything, Scott said. I think we're going to see a big bounceback.

I think we're going to look back at the end of 2026 and say, oh yeah, this guy's the first ballot Hall of Famer. And oh yeah, losing 15 pounds a week before or after the season starts. It's tough. That's a tough thing. Mookiee Betts doesn't have a lot of weight to lose. Yeah, that's true. I've been trying to write down for all the players that have researched,

just a kind of range of expectations, a realistic range, I guess, for said player. And for bets, I wrote down 260 to 270, 20 to 25 homers, 90 to 100 runs, 80 to 90 to 90 RBI, in 8 to 12 steals. And that's just kind of like a modest expectation. And if he does that, I think he's probably worth like a third round pick. Yeah, I think it's low on batting average.

I think it's low runs in RBI. So, you know, especially, yeah. If it's a modest, if you're projecting him on the more modest side of things, then I think that's perfectly fine. And that's probably how you should do it because I don't think you're going to have to go particularly,

you're going to have to be particularly aggressive when targeting bets next year. One thing to point out with him, strictly shortstop next year for fantasy. No more outfield and no more second base. As for the back half of the top 12 at shortstop, the only difference here is that Scott has Pena in his top 12

and Chris, you have Trevor Story in yours. Yeah, so I've adjusted mine. This is the position I've adjusted most because I told you that back half of the top 12 was really kind of hard to sort out. And I got more clarity with it when I did this self-mock of mine to come up with the top 300. You should be nice for yourself, Scott. Don't mock yourself.

Yeah. So 7 through 12 now for me is Geraldo Pardomo, Zach Netto, Corey Seeger, who I originally had 12th, but now he's back up to 9th. and then C.J. Abrams, Jeremy Pena and Bo Bouchette, or those two might be reversed. But anyway, I think that brings Chris and I closer on this back half of the top 12th. Let's just wrap up with a quick thought here on Corey Seeger. Limited to just 102 games. He went on the aisle twice with hamstring injuries. He's out with a lot of hamstring stuff throughout his career. He's been limited to 123 games or less three years in a row.

he's still a very good hitter. He strikes me as the perfect player to take in a shallower format, maybe a points league where the replacement value is there, but you know, 12 team roto or deeper where you got to fill a middle infield spot. Yeah. I think I would just find myself shying away from Seeger at this point. Well, that's

the thing. That's why my initial inclination was to put him 12th at the position because we keep giving him the benefit of the doubt for his health only once in the last five years has he played even a 125 games.

And, you know, he's in his mid, early 30s. He's going to be 32 at the start of next year. But he's getting older, especially for a shortstop. And you just, like at what point do we say, okay, we can only count on Corey Seeger playing 115 to 120 games and draft him accordingly. Because if there's ever a time to do that, I think that's what we're doing now. And then you look at the actual category. production great power hitter for the position great run and rbi pace he'll be on over however many

games he plays but no steals at a position where almost everybody provides steals and it's not like he's a standout on batting average he's okay so i will just say there's so many more let me just if i could finish the thought there are so many uh uh like game changing options like truly impact players at this position now with the emergence of Jeremy Pena and Boba Chet bouncing back and Zach Netto, who I think we all rang ahead of Corey Seeger. But like to put yourself in a bind with steals and miss a lot of playing time from this guy, what is it worth to you? Is it worth passing up Jeremy Pena and Boba Chet? Ultimately, I decided yes, because he's Corey Freakin Seeker and I would feel so stupid if I settled for Jeremy Paine. and then Corey Seeger had an MVP caliber season. But I understand if I understand maybe more this year than ever why somebody might fade Corey Seeger given the continual issues he said.

I think that's all reasonable. I think this is one that when, you know, that NFBC ADP dominates so many of the early conversations because the ADP comes out in, you know, December or whatever. And that's kind of all there is at that point. Corey Seeger should go a lot lower in those leagues. It's a 15-team league, no-I-L spots in those big tournaments. You need to downgrade a player like Corey Seeger. But I saw an amazing quote from Alexander Chase from pitcher list. You win your leagues by setting your lineups.

You lose your drafts by valuing players as if you aren't allowed to. And I thought that was such a good way to put it. Because like with a player like Corey Seeger, Yeah, it sucks when he gets hurt and misses 50 games. And that's especially true in a league with no IL spot and you need to account for that. But if most people playing fantasy baseball play with unlimited or large amounts of IL spots, more IL spots than you need to really account for. You don't just get a zero when he's out of the lineup.

You get, I don't know, Otto Lopez or, you know, Carlos Correa or whoever is available on your league's waiver wire. And that might come out to, you know, 105 games of Corey Seeger and 57 games of Carlos Correa might be 38 homers, 110 RBI, 90 runs, and a 280 batting average. Like, that's how, that's how freaking good Corey Seeger is. So it's just, it is worth keeping in mind that, one, when that early ADP comes out and he's like 90th or whatever, that's fine. That's fair. You shouldn't let him fall that far in every league. Because if you have IL spots, you get to replace him. And when he's healthy, you have Corey Seeger.

And that is a huge edge. And Frank kind of kicked off this topic by making a similar point. Like what you said about you lose your league by drafting as if you're not allowed to set your lineup. I would say that's more applicable. That statement is more applicable the shallower your league is. Absolutely. get into some of those NFBC leagues, the 15-team Roto, and your substitute for an injured shortstop is not exactly nothing,

but he's pretty bad. Yeah, it's Carson Williams or Chase Midroth or something, you know? Yeah. Even in a 12-team Roto with a middle-infield spot, it might not be great out there on the waiver wire. So I mostly agree. I think any leagues where there's no middle-infield spot, if you just play a head-to-head-style lineup setting,

then I would be okay in Corey Seeger in leagues like that. But anything deeper where you have a middle infield spot, I don't want to say that he's just all my do not draft list, but in deeper leagues, I'm probably just staying completely away from Corey Seeger. All right, happy Halloween to all make sure to enjoy and stay safe out there. We're going to wrap there for Scott Chris. I am Frank.

Thanks as always for tuning in to fantasy baseball today. Please make sure to follow and leave a five-star rating on Apple or Spotify, and we will be back again next week. Bye-bye. Thank you.