Fantasy Baseball Today - H2H Points Mock Draft Recap! Latest MLB Proposal (04/13 Fantasy Baseball Podcast)

Episode Date: April 13, 2020

We're recapping our latest 12-team H2H points mock draft but first we have some music takes brought to you by Adam Aizer! We take a look at the latest MLB proposal, which would have teams play the season out of their spring training facilities in Arizona and Florida (8:00). How would this affect Rockies players? Which players gain the biggest advantage with a universal DH? ... As part of our mock draft recap, we review everybody's general philosophy in H2H points leagues (25:00). Why is there such an emphasis on starting pitching early in this format? ... Next, we're taking a look at the second round (35:17). Would you rather have Shane Bieber or Jose Ramirez? Why did Anthony Rizzo get drafted this early? ... With pitching flying off the board, this created strong hitter value in the third round (40:10). How did J.D. Martinez last so long? Would you rather draft Trea Turner or Mike Clevinger? ... Lastly, we take a look at Adam's final roster with the ninth overall pick (47:00). ... Email us at [e-mail]. 'Fantasy Baseball Today' is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, Castbox and wherever else you listen to podcasts.  Follow our FBT team on Twitter: @CBSFantasyBB, @AdamAizer, @CTowersCBS, @CBSScottWhite, @Roto_Frank Join our Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/fantasybaseballtoday For more fantasy baseball coverage from CBS Sports, visit https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/ To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ Download our printable Draft Kit from CBSSports.com/draftkit! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Fantasy Baseball Today podcast from CBS Sports. One, one pitch, basketball, ball, and basketball. Got a fantasy question? Email Fantasy Baseball at CBSI.com. Get ready to win your league. Where fantasy becomes reality. Now, here's Adam, Scott, Heath, and Chris. Welcome, everybody to Fantasy Baseball today.

Happy Monday, April 13th. Frank here, joined by Adam, Chris, and Scott. With our powers combined, we are Team. It wouldn't be Monday if we didn't start things off with an Azer hot take. And I saw this on Twitter earlier this morning, Adam. What do I do now? Like The Doors, The Who, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, and Led Zeppelin. So, the doors are mediocre at best.

I'm with you on that. Jim Morrison was a drunken buffoon to quote, what's his name from that movie? Almost famous. Lester Bangs. Not liking The Who. not liking the Rolling Stones. Like, what is wrong with you? Well, I don't think the Who.

The two that I feel like you should push back on are the Stones and Led Zeppelin. The Who are... I like The Who more than Led Zeppelin. That's my hot tape. Yeah, well, first of all, I don't like Led Zeppelin for the same reason. I don't like Guns and Roses and the same reason I don't like smashing pumpkins. The shrieky voice is not for me. Which is, I know, ironic for me to say...

You like Aerosmith. He doesn't have a... Yes, he does. Not like that. No, not like that. Okay, that's like a vocal effect that he does. That's not his constant voice. Was that Dream on?

Yeah, it was Dream on. Yeah, it was beautiful. I don't like those bands. Yeah, I don't know. I just, they're not for me. And I mentioned Pink Floyd in there, right? Yes. Yeah, Pink Floyd's over right.

They suck. So. Fine. So I knew that that would certainly ruffle some feathers. I knew that Chris would jump in sooner than expected. But I actually don't have a problem with the takes because music is subjective. We'll say, with that being said, Adam, if you don't like Metallica, I'm going to have to ask you to leave. I don't care either way.

I mean, I think they're about as good as it can get for a metal band. But, you know, I like Metallica. They have one of the five best songs of the 90s and Enter Sandman. Okay, yeah, I had no idea because your music takes are so bad that it could have been anything. I realized I didn't know much about the music interests of Scott. I knew when it comes to Chris. I mean, Chris, I can just let you take over the podcast. And for the next month, you can just turn it into a music podcast.

I did. I reorganized my records this weekend and listened to a bunch of old ones. So I've got some real good takes. And we actually found out on Friday when we did our live stream on Facebook that the bookshelf behind Chris is color-coded. And whether or not that's, I don't know, something that's something else. psychopath. That is what numerous people on Twitter have said. Look, it's not insulting me. You're attacking

my wife. No, no, no. That's, I would never do with that what you will. I think it looks cool. I think it looks cool. What are your musical interests? I realize I have no idea what type of music Scott is turning on if he is

firing up the old record player. Ah, yes. I tend to sit out the music discussion. because I have no musical opinions, at least not to the extent that everyone else does. These conversations tend to get very heated and I don't really understand it. So I just prefer to sit them out.

And, you know, music is not, I'm not, look, I like a good tune just like anybody else, but I'm not somebody who just fires up music to just listen while I'm, doing day-to-day tasks, I'm more likely to listen to a podcast or something, or even have like the TV on in the background, then listen to music. I'm just not a big music listener. I don't know. You know, my friend made a playlist for the quarantine. It's like three hours long, and it's on Spotify. And it's basically, if you want to know what kind of music I like,

it's basically this playlist. And I wonder, like, can I, can I share that with people? Mudvane, Nickelback. I'll tell you, I'll tell you what's on it. Puddle of mud. I don't like any of that stuff. Disturb. Days of the Week by Stone Temple Pilots, Special by Garbage, Molly by Sponge, Wrong Way, Sublime. That's a horrible song. The Wallflowers.

Misery by Soul Asylum. Criminal by Fiona Apple. Sunday morning by No Doubt. She's electric by a way. You could want to share it somewhere, like on the Facebook page or on Twitter or something, I think, possibly. I have to ask my friend if it's cool with him. Yeah, I mean, this is great 90s music, and it's post-grunge. So this is sort of my wheelhouse.

So if you are interested, and the thing is, I know, I say this a lot, I acknowledge there's a lot of great music that I don't like, but everything I do like is good. That is, I'm certain of that. There you go. I will, the one pushback I have for you is if you like the 90s era of, I guess, alternative, I mean, you can't just like smashing pumpkins. I hate you. I mean, even if you have something against them.

My least favorite band. Yes, you would think I would like them because they are exactly in the era and the type of music are like, but I cannot stand that guy's voice. So they just, no, they're a big no for me. I hate them. Chris is shaking.

It just, you're basic. I'm used to people saying they don't like me because they hate my voice. That's not, look, that's not why I don't like you. you. Scott, if you did have to fire up one of those supposed tunes, what would it be? Just, I don't know. The first thing that comes to your head.

I like a lot. Not a lot. I don't know. I'm not familiar enough with anybody's catalog to say, I really like that person. And it's like, what about 80% of his songs that you wouldn't like? Like the big White Stripes hits. I like the way that. sound a lot.

I listen to a lot of weird Al, to be honest, when I do listen, like on Carville trips or whatever. An absolute legend. Because that's just fun. I like when music is fun, and some people take it so seriously. It's like...

Oh, who? It's like they base life philosophies off it or something. It's like, all right, that's fine. That's for you. That's not for me. Throw in some subs today on the podcast. Speaking of the podcast, let's get back on track. Today, we're going to take a look at the latest MLB proposal that came out on Friday, which would basically do away with the American League National League for this year,

and we would have the grapefruit and the Cactus League. We'll also recap our latest head-to-head points mock draft. Later on in the show, your email questions, fantasy baseball at cbsi.com. But the latest proposal for what the MLB season would look like would include teams being split between Florida and Arizona in their spring training facilities. There would not be an American League or a National League instead, the Grapefruit League and the Cactus League, as I mentioned. Yeah, no more American League East, at least for this season.

You're now looking at the Great Fruit League North or the Cactus League Northeast. And, you know, my biggest two takeaways from this would be, you know, every team would have a DH so that opens up the player pool more for fantasy baseball purposes. And, you know, for some of those log jams in the National League, like the Colorado Rockies and the Cincinnati Reds, I mean, this would certainly help things out. Speaking of the Colorado Rockies, that's my second takeaway, is they would not have the advantage of Coors Field. While I do think hitting in the dry heat of Arizona would still be a helpful hitters environment, I don't think that it would be to the level that Coors Field is. and with that being said, I guess Hermann Marquez and guys like John Gray would see a slight tick up, although I don't think it would be that great. So those were my two biggest takeaways

here were that the DH would be included for every team and that there would be no Coors Field. What do you guys have to speak on in terms of those two things or if there's anything else you wanted to take away from this latest proposal? The Coors Field thing, we approach Coors Field differently from any other park, any other hitters Park. It doesn't, like, the physics change for the ball. The way the ball moves, and that's not just the way it carries off the bat, but the way it moves out of the pitcher's hand. So it's, like, pitchers have to be different there. Or sometimes they make the mistake of being different, and then they can't get back what made them effective on the road. So you've seen careers can completely tailspent

from pitching in Colorado. I think it would be a great thing for Herman Marquez, specifically, because he's the one pitcher in their rotation, who I feel like is genuinely a good pitcher and just has that terrible disadvantage of pitching his home games in course fields. You don't feel that way about John Gray? Okay. Yeah, John Gray, too. Well, Gray is interesting because he hasn't had bad, he hasn't had big home road splits, but I do feel like getting out of Cores would help anyone, and I feel like he's got the stuff to.

Yeah, I just wonder if he's too far gone at this point. And look, he's been a decent pitcher in Coorsfield. He's navigated as well as anybody, but he hasn't lived up to expectations, I think, coming out of the minors and sometimes what the supporting stats have said for him. So I don't know. I'd have more confidence with Marquez, but great to some extent, too. It's, it's, the reaction that this plan got on Twitter, I think was milder than the one Jeff Passon reported on a couple days earlier.

I don't know if it was just fatigue. Like everybody got their takeout already and nobody had the energy to do it all over again. But the sense I got from within like the baseball beat was that this seemed like a more viable option, at least if nothing else. I mean, there would be a stadium for everybody, right? Like that was one thing that didn't get brought up

with the Arizona plan is we'd be working with half as many stadiums roughly. How are we going to fit in a schedule that way? there would be there would not be a stadium for everyone i think there are three or four teams that share stadiums in florida and about the same number in arizona that i don't think this is feasible having lived in florida my entire life i don't see how you're going to get a baseball stadium a baseball schedule played in the middle of summer in Florida with no roofed stadiums. That just, because you're going to have to play some doubleheaders. You're going to have to play, you know, the Cardinals and Marlins share a stadium in Florida.

So you're probably going to have to have days where the Cardinals and Marlins both play. I just don't think that's feasible. Well, the Marlins played in an open stadium. You know, right. And they average like 20 or 30 rain delays per year or something. Yeah. No, it's, I mean, obviously there are going to be challenges, and I don't think anybody's expecting a full schedule at this point. But I think something's better than nothing.

Yeah, look, I'm hoping we get something. And I'm hopeful we get something. The biggest thing that I would point out is not just the effect of course field, not being there, but just this would lead to, especially in the games that are played in Arizona, would lead to a significant increase in offense for, most of the league because you're talking about the the Phoenix area where pretty much all the I believe all the stadiums in the Cactus League are located in the Phoenix area. You're talking about elevations of at least 1,000 feet above sea level. You're talking about low humidity and most importantly, you know, average highs in the summer in the high 90s to the triple digits. So it would be a significant increase in offensive environment. So what we would have to figure out is what the

relative changes are for players as a whole. If offense is easier to come by, we're going to have to figure out which players benefit the most. You know, guys playing in Safeco are going to benefit playing all their games in in Arizona and things like that. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, pitchers in Arizona, I would think would get a significant downgrade relative to the ones pitching in Florida.

But, you know, it would be difficult to do like a stadium by stadium analysis of that sort of thing, I think. But you just see the numbers in spring training from the Cactus League. Home runs are always inflated there. If nothing else, fly ball pitchers I'd be wary of. And there aren't that many, like, extreme fly ball pitchers that are especially high end. But there are a few. Just looking at a few teams that would be playing in the Cactus League in Arizona. that could see an uptick in value if they were to play there.

The Oakland A's, obviously more of a pitcher's ballpark there. Kansas City Royals, so someone like Jorge Soler would see an uptick. You mentioned the Seattle Mariners, the Padres, my boy, Manny Machado, would get an upgrade there as well. Adam, based on this, if it were to happen, give me a player who would benefit the most from the designated hitter being in the National League. Because as I mentioned, there would be so many players.

that would, like the pool would open up for specifically, you know, a player that can play DH, but also, you know, again, those log jams with the Reds, the Colorado Rockies. I mean, who's a player that you think could possibly benefit the most if we did have DHS league-wide this season? How about Ryan Braun? How about the Brewer's situation? You got Avi Garcia and Ryan Braun, and maybe they wouldn't have to split playing time. So that's the first one that comes to mind. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. I have a bunch of them written down. I think Garrett Hampson for Scott, I know a huge fan. I think if they had the DH,

Daniel Murphy probably winds up at DH, and then they can move Ryan McMahon over to first. Yeah, but how much do we want them if they're not playing in Cores? You know, you're right that they would at least get in the lineup, and maybe you're just hoping for steals or something. I don't know what kind of a hit or Hampson would be if he didn't get to play in Cores. And by the way, well, I'll let you finish that thought, but let me come back to, when you're done with that,

let me come back to Charlie Blackman, but go for it. Yeah, I mean, for Hampson, I don't know that, I don't know how much his value was elevated. I mean, he did play, you know, in the minor leagues. I believe he was in the PCL. So that is a positive hitter's environment as well. But, I mean, he's someone who relies more on speed than anything else. So I'm not sure that he would be affected all that much. I think just the ability to play every day is something that would be positive for him that we're maybe not so definitively expecting,

or at least I'm not, this upcoming season. And Will Myers was one for me who would see a very big uptick. And, you know, they can get Franchi Cordero in the outfield with Trent Grisham. And you don't have worry because, look, if Will Myers had an opportunity to play D.H. every day helps keep him healthy. And, I mean, he's a couple of seasons removed from a 30-20 season. So especially from a roto perspective, that would be huge for Will Myers. Adam, you're Charlie Blackman or Scott.

What do you got? Well, I was kind of of the opinion that Will Myers looked. like he was in line for close to a full-time role anyway, though obviously having more hitter spots there, with Trink Gresham Playing Center and Franchi Cordero out. But there is some love for Franchi there. With regards to Colorado, is that what you wanted to,

is that what you want to talk about, Ryan? Like, I'd be wary of somebody who, I'd be more wary of somebody who wasn't, we weren't really that confident in the hitting profile. Like, I'm thinking of Ryan McMahon specifically. For sure. Well, he has been horrible away from Cores.

Yeah, I feel like Coresfield is the only thing sustaining him as an enticing fantasy option at this point. When Hampson, I mean, he's, like, he was a big prospect heading into last year. And, you know, when prospect evaluations, you're not really factoring in Coresfield. It's yet a bad year, but it was too early to really write him off. I think with Hampton and really with everyone on the Rockies, what you pretty much have to do is just probably just lop off, like rough estimate, probably 15 points of batting average, maybe more, is probably the way to do it.

So if you were hoping that Garrett Hanson would hit $290, maybe you hope he hits $2.75 now. I think that's the best way to look at it. I also do want to point out the average run scored per game per team in the Cactus League this year. You guys ready for this? Sure. 5.9 runs per game.

It's a lot of runs. I don't know what to compare that to. What was the number for the major leagues last year? I would guess it was like 4.5, maybe a little higher. That's a huge difference then. Probably a little higher, yeah. I did want to give some numbers, though.

No one Aronado, his last five years, his road OPS. has been only one like really bad year, 772 in 2018. Usually it's around 830 to 880. So let's say he had 866 OPS. That was his road OPS last season. It would have been 41st among qualified hitters. Just qualified hitters.

So Aeronado on the road, 866 OPS, 41st among qualified hitters. 886 was his best OPS in his last five seasons on the road. That would have been 33rd in between Max Muncie and Yuli Gurriel. Charlie Blackman has been terrible on the road. Four of his last five seasons, 784 or worse OPS. Like, if Charlie Blackman is, you know, just a product of course field, then it kind of seems like he has been four of the last five seasons. I don't even know how draftable he is. Like, he's going to hit better than that because he'd be playing in Arizona. but everybody playing in Arizona

would be hitting better than what they normally do. We talk all the time about how it's not as simple, particularly with Rocky players. But this is really bad with... Applying. Yeah, no, it's...

It stands to reason, though, because the change in environment is so extreme that they're not just going to... No, but Scott, what I'm saying is, like, Aeronado is not that much better of a hitter than Charlie Blacklin

over the last five years. Both have been amazing hit. Aeronado has had a really respectable road OPS. Blackman has been horrible. I understand, but Blackman is not going to be like, what is it, a 600 OPS guy if he was playing in a spring training Arizona facility? I mean, I would venture to say his spring numbers over that same stretch are probably pretty good. Yeah, I want to point out this is the comp that I think, at least in Aeronado's case,

is probably pretty relevant. The first five seasons of Matt Holliday's career, ages 24 through 28, he has a lot of, He hit 319 with a 938 OPS with the Rockies. He was traded to Oakland in the following offseason. The next five seasons of his career, he played. Happy year in Oakland, the rest of it with St. Louis. He hit 304 with an 899 OPS. Yes, he was worse, but that also includes four years in his 30s.

So really, he was pretty much the same player. So that's one of the reasons why I'm less pessimistic about Rockies hitters away from Coors because there is, as I've said a few times, this offseason, the Coors Field Hangover effect. Right, right. Yes, I'm looking at Holiday away from Coors as an example because it'd be one thing if his home road splits were not extreme, but they were pretty extreme, it seems.

I'm looking at that right now. I haven't looked at this yet. It's not possible for a Rockies hitter to move away. I mean, we just saw DJ LeMayhew do it last year. I mean, granted, it's a great ballpark to hit in Yankee's. stadium too, but it's not impossible. Look, would Charlie Blackman suffer? Yeah, he'd probably drop down

from, I mean, last year was a 940 OPS. He's probably closer to like an 850 OPS player if all the games are being played in Arizona. Well, that's not that good. That's even a little optimistic. That's not that good based on last year. His career OPS in spring training, which has

been entirely for the Rockies dating back to 2011, is 833. So about where Frank's pinpointing it. Not that good. But you'd be surprised. See, okay, obviously,

you know, hitting was really good last year, but you'd be surprised where 833 would have ranked. Like, it's not a top 50 hitter. I'll try to find exactly what it was. But that wasn't that good. Plus,

in spring training, he's facing horrible pitchers at times. Yeah. Yeah, but he wasn't part of his spring training line. He was considered a horrible hitter himself, too, right? So it's obviously an imperfect exercise, but I think just looking at his road splits for the past few years is highly imperfect. If you project him to be an 830 OPS guy, that's Brett Gardner and Eduardo Escobar.

So that's 57th in baseball last year among qualified hitters. Adam, think of all your mock draft teams that would be useless now. Oh, horrible. But I smile because Scott took Charlie Blackman in the road. auction league and he hated he hated himself for it for like the next two days and i actually thought it was a good pick but now it would be a terrible pick all right let's move on to the head to head points mock draft that we did last week uh before we do that real quick just want to remind everyone that the fantasy baseball today is still alive in the sweet 16 of the podcast bracket the winner

will be decided this week uh today is the sweet 16 tomorrow the elite eight so on and so forth Nothing is possible without you, the great listeners. So continue to help us out with your vote. The bracket is being done at baseball pods on Twitter. We're the only daily podcast. We're the only daily podcast. Rite or wire has been daily. Okay.

But fake news. We're the only daily podcast that I'm on. But not daily. Ah, we're the only, damn it. Vote for someone else. No, vote for us. We are so dedicated. We're like all offseason long.

Come on. Nobody's more dedicated than we are. And that I will stand by. The only daily podcast that sometimes includes Adam Azer and decided to change their podcast hosts right before the baseball season started. So keep all of those things in mind. We did a head to head points mock draft last week, 12 teams, normal head to head points, roster construction, one catcher. three outfielders, one utility bat, five starting pitchers, and two relief pitchers. Reminder, you can use SPARPS. Those are starting pitchers that have relief pitcher eligibility. And before we just kind of

dive into some of the results, I just wanted to ask you guys what your head-to-head points philosophy is just with myself here on the podcast to kind of refresh everyone who's listening and to refresh myself, you know, how you guys attack head-to-head points leagues, because I know, Scott, your dynasty league is a points league. My longest standing keeper league is a points league. We all play in points leagues. We all love points leagues. But people attack them differently. So

I mean, what's your general points league strategy? Do you always go after pitching early? Is there an emphasis on those sparse? Are there, is there a specific profile that you look for in a hitter? Scott, why don't you get started with what your league strategy is for

head to head points league? So I think probably the main thing that would apply to everybody listening. I don't know. It's been a while since I've talked about this. I guess I'm not... Okay, let me just get into it. So obviously, in head-to-head points leagues,

we talk about how the lineup is differently constructed from like a... from like a roto league or even like a head-to-head categories league, if you're thinking of the Yahoo-style league. I think one of the biggest things, the biggest difference for me in head-to-head points leagues is that I do pay like position scarcity is a little more of a thing for me there like I'm more likely to draft a JT real muto because the there are fewer ways to gain advantage over your opponent since

there are fewer lineup spots to fill there and you don't have to be as particular like you don't have to play the category scarcity game that you have to now in in roto and head-to-head categories Lee steals being so scarce, obviously. Batting averages, something of a priority in the early rounds as well. Your options are wider in terms of what kind of hitter can fill those spots for you. And so like that, that kind of tips the scales back more toward the position scarcity element where, where, okay, I want to not accept a lower standard of this, a lower standard than this at this position. and to make sure you obviously meet that standard.

But of course, I mean, starting pitchers, like I'm going so heavily in starting pitchers that it doesn't really matter for me personally, which format it is, how heavily I go after starting pitchers. But you can expect to see your competition go heavier after starting pitchers. There's more of a need to grab them early just because they're going to deplete quicker

than they probably would in a Categories League. Scott mentions that pitching goes earlier in this format, and it was evident in this draft that we did. There were five starting pitchers who went in round one. So let me reveal that to you. It was Mike Trout, Christian Yelich, Cody Bellinger, Garrett Colette pick four, Ronald Lucuna and Mukie Betts. Those were the first six picks in this head to head points. Mock draft we did, 12 teams. And then the second half of the first round, of course, Scott, myself, and Adam were all in a row, 7, 8, and 9, and Chris was at 12. was Alex Bregman. I took Jacob de Grom at eight. Adam took Max Scherzer, Walker Bueller to 10, Nolan Aronado to 11, and Chris Towers took Justin Verlander at 12th. So we had five starting

pitchers go in the first round. We had 19 starting pitchers go in the first four rounds. Chris, why do you think that pitching gets pushed up the board more so in a head-to-head points? Because I guarantee you, if we did a, you know, we have done this and should have looked it But a 12-team Roto League, you will not see five pitchers go in the first round, 19 starting pitchers go in the first four rounds. You just won't see that. I think a big part of it is the fantasy point numbers that you get from your top-end starting pitchers. You know, last year it was DeGrom, Verlander, and Cole specifically. They can outpace what the number one hitters give you. And I don't think it's quite as simple as that. I think

And part of it is also, you only have five pitcher spots to fill. So the value of those high-end pitchers, they make up a larger percentage of your teams total. And so the more of those guys you can get, the more of an edge you'll be able to have. I think that makes sense. Well, the other thing is the roto leagues have a lot more hitter spots. And they have nine pitcher spots instead of seven, which are in points leagues. Again, you can play a points league with as many roster spots as you want, but the standard CBS is only one catcher, only three outfielders,

no middle infielders, no corner infield, whereas a standard roto has two catchers, five outfielders, middle infield, a lot more hitter spots, and nine pitcher spots instead of seven. So there's just not as much of a rush for the pitching. And with the roto leagues, you have to worry about categories. You don't have to think about when to take the steals guys. You don't have to do that in points leagues. and there's just a lot of situations in a points league where you're in a 12-team league,

well, the 12th to the 15th option at the position is perfectly fine, and they're basically the same, and you waited and waited to take your shortstop, and you're just going to wait until, like, your last pick to do it, because nobody's taking a backup. There's stuff like that. So that's why pitching is more important and gets pushed up in points leagues, among many, you know, Chris covered in two.

I think just because, And it would be interesting to compare head-to-head points versus head-to-head roto because this is kind of a, or head-to-head categories, because this is kind of a head-to-head specific observation. But it's more noticeable when a pitcher wrecks you in a head-to-head points league because you have that negative number by his name or maybe it's a low number like a zero or one or whatever. He just didn't do his job for that week and you're stuck with a loss because of it. So you like the consistency better in a head-to-head, and you know you can count on that more from the high-end pitchers. But what's interesting about that is there are ways to cheat more on the pitching end in head-to-head points league. Since it's volume that's rewarded, it's not ratios, you can load up on two-star pitchers off the waiver wire

and it be a more viable strategy in this format. or there are the non-strikeout guys who don't get much play in categories leagues but are actually pretty good like Marcus Stroman and Dallas Keikle. Like they are they become pretty useful again in this format. Brad Keller maybe to a degree. So I don't know that that's I don't know that pitching should necessarily be emphasized in this format over Roto. It just traditionally is.

Like I feel like the high end, the disparity between. the high end guy and the low end guy might actually be bigger in Roto in a traditional 5-5 category league. Frank, couple things. You also get points for innings in points leagues in points leagues. You usually don't get that in Roto. And the guys that are taken early are the ones that have the chance to give you 200 innings for the most part.

And then you want the comparison. I only counted 18 starting pitchers in the first four rounds of the last head-to-head categories mock trap we did. And only two in round one. So I got 18. How many did you say went in this draft? 19 in the first four rounds. Okay, so I have 18.

And only two in the first. So not that big of a difference. And this was a head-to-head categories league that had the same roster construction, okay, catcher, three outfielders, no corner or middle infield. So same number pretty much, but not as early, only two in the first round.

So put in perspective, how many players were, you know, who scored what in this four? format last year. This is something that Chris pointed out a little bit earlier. In 2019, you had two starting pitchers over 700 fantasy points. There were no hitters that scored over 700 fantasy points last year. There were four starting pitchers over 600 points. There were 10 over 600 points among hitters. For starting pitchers, there were only 15 starting pitchers over 500 fantasy points last year. There were 36 hitters who were over 500 fantasy points in 2019. So,

So to me, there's just, there are less elite pitchers in this format. That's just what it comes down to when you break it down like that. I mean, there are more, there's more parity among hitters where there's 36 different hitters who score over 500 fantasy points. And there was only 15 starting pitchers who met that threshold last year. And you can stream two-star pitchers, as Scott mentioned, but you also, you know, while those guys are, I think they're just as likely to give you two good starts as they are to give you two-bad starts.

I mean, that's why they're two-star pitchers, why they're on the waiver. wires because they're not owned. They're not great pitchers. So I think that's why you see a little bit more of an emphasis on top tier pitchers in this format because there's just more parity among hitters as compared to starting pitchers. We already read out the first round. Was there anything egregious that happened in the first round of this draft? Not really, right?

It seemed pretty normal here. Yeah, somebody let- A few people let Scott get Bregman at seven. You're ahead of Erlander is the only one that stands out to me. Yeah, and appointeeley, I mean, Verlander's just going to, he's going to probably go deeper into every, every start rather than Bueller. He's going to give you probably more endings, assuming that he's healthy. Yeah, I think that's fair. Like, Verlander should go ahead of Bueller and a point sleep.

But outside of that, I don't think there's anything too crazy in the first round. The second round, we start to see, you know, a few curveballs here in this draft. Freddie Freeman to Chris, then Juan Soto, Francisco Lindor, Anthony Rendon, to add. Adam, I took Jose Ramirez at pick 17, and Scott, you took Shane Bieber at 18. So I wanted to ask you, I was debating Jose Ramirez or Bieber to pair with Jacob de Grom. I was going to double down on starting pitching. If I took Shane Bieber, who would you have taken? Would you have went with a hitter? Would you have pivoted to like a Jack Flaherty or Stephen Schrosberg? If I took Bieber in round two, who would you have taken, Scott? I probably would have taken a different

pitcher Jack Flaherty is the most likely Clevenger I think Jack Flaherty's next to my ranking so that's probably who I would have taken yeah in a in a head-to-head points league knowing the demand for starting pitchers and noting knowing my own distaste for having a low-end pitching staff yeah I'd I wouldn't go two rounds without taking a starting pitcher unless it was just like if like if I don't know if I if I had a top five pick and let's say I took mooky bets in the first round and then Alex Bregman was still there in the second round

I'd probably have to take Alex Bregman at that point but obviously that didn't happen here. Scott, I want to propose an impromptu not really rankings debate. We're a little bit different here. I have Jose Ramirez higher in my points league's rankings in 2018. He was the top scoring hitter in the points league format

and you have him down as your 25th player overall in head to head points leagues. Is he a little bit? it undervalued this year? Why do you have him, that puts him at the beginning of the third round. Is it just you're worried about, you know, the half seasons that he's put together recently? Because admittedly, it has been very scary. I mean, we're drafting Jose Ramirez, not all the way back to where he was last year,

but, you know, a second round pick. And, you know, there was still a lot that he did wrong last year. But I feel like he's undervalued for this format specifically. I don't mind him as a second round pick. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, he's, he's, was, I think, the consensus number three guy across all formats last year. So if, if, if you're completely convinced he's back, then it's a good value. But I'm mostly convinced

he's back. I'm probably 90% convinced he's back. But like, there's so many hitters in this range that you just can't go wrong with that I'd rather not take the chance of that 10% chance, Ramirez, what he did the last month and a half last year was fluky, and he's actually going to struggle again. I'd just rather not take that chance. I just don't want to mess up my early round picks to the extent I can avoid it, even though obviously some of those are having to go to starting pitchers this year. Yeah, and that's why I don't mind taking, look, starting pitch, I was debating taking Shane Bieber to pair with Jacob de Grom just to take pitchers early because I'll get into this a little bit later, but the third round, um, Adam, Adam,

got J.D. Martinez and Bryce Harper went at pick 34. So, I mean, you can still get really, really elite level hitters in the third round of head-to-head points leagues. And that's why, again, I tend to lean towards starting pitchers. But I've never seen J.D. Martinez go that. I couldn't believe I got J.D. Martinez where I got him 33rd overall. Harper, yeah. But J.D. Martinez, I felt like I just felt like I stole the draft in the third round. That was crazy that he went there. And it was really hard for me to pass on those guys. I'm talking about how great of a value they were, and I still passed because I took Mike Clevenger.

I picked 32. I felt like the same way you just described J.D. Martinez, that's exactly how I felt about Clevenger. But before we get there, I just want to bring up the fact that Anthony Rizzo went in the second round of this draft. Am I missing something, or is this something that normally happens? Because Anthony Rizzo is a very good points league player, and I would argue he's a better point.

Points League player than he is a Roto player. I think he's kind of boring in Roto. But for Points League's last year, he averaged 3.5 fantasy points per game. That was tied for eighth among first baseman. He's fine, but second round pick, it seems very early. It was a down year for him. But it's been a couple years in a row now that he's fallen

short of 30 home runs. So I don't know that we can just assume he's going to bounce back and be top three at the position again. I think it's just... Particularly with people who aren't used to playing in head-to-head points who only play in it occasionally. You'll find people who don't account enough for the scoring differences, and then you'll find people who overcompensate. And I think this was probably an over-compensation pick. Yeah, he's a fourth-round pick at best, I think.

Yeah, I think we're in agreement there. There were seven hitters that went in round three. Rafael Devers, pick 26, Trevor Story, pick 27, Starly Marte, 29, Kittel Marte, 30. Scott, you got Trey Turner at pick 31, Adam, you got J.D. Martinez at 33, and Bryce Harper at pick 34. I think this is the biggest case for why you can start pitcher heavy in a points league, because, again, you can get these type hitters in the third round. So, Chris, I mean, does that further kind of push your mantra of taking starting pitchers early in this format? Because you can get, you know, Devere's story, Trey Turner, J.D. Martinez, Bryce Harper in the third round. Because to me, those just seem like great values.

They are great values, but I don't want to oversell the point. Like, you look at Patrick Corbyn, he had 545 fantasy points last season. he was the second to last pick in round three. You compare him to like Jack Flaherty. He actually outscored Jack Flaherty last season. So, you know, Jack Flaherty goes a full round ahead of him. I think you see once you get past kind of that first really super elite tier of pitchers, I think it's a real kind of jumble after that.

You know, I don't know if there's that big of a difference in this format between what I expect from Shane Bieber this year and what I expect from a Patrick Corbyn, a Luis Castillo, an Aaronnola. You know, a lot of it's going to come down to in this format staying healthy. But in terms of the quality of the pitcher, I think they're all pretty similar. So I, my goal in a head-to-head points, and it really, it's true in a roto. If I'm picking the second half of the first round, I want to get one of those aces. And I'm not sure how much I want to spend my second round pick, let's say, on the next tier of starting pitcher. You know, I did kind of experiment with this team and I took pictures with my three of my first four picks, and I kind of hate my team. So I'm not sure,

you know, obviously it comes down to the actual players that you pick as well, but in looking at my lineup, it just, I don't know, I don't, I don't know. It's, I don't hate it, but it's not, it's not necessarily something that I would do again, you know, if given the chance. I've had success in this format, you know, kind of just living in the mid-tier in terms of hitters. And that's what I did here. I took starting pitchers with three of my first four picks as well, Chris. And I have absolutely no problem with the way the team turned out. My best hitter is Jose Ramirez. I'm buying the bounce back there. Scott, you took Trey Turner at pick 31. This is something we spoke about a little bit in the dynasty startup mock draft.

we did because he lasted it into the third round. That was a points league format as well. And again, I mean, you know, how, how easy was it for you to take Trey Turner there? Or were you debating someone else in that spot? Because I took Clevenger the very next pick. And to me, I really wanted to take Harper or Martinez, but I couldn't pass on Mike Clevenger who averaged the third most fantasy points per game among starting pitchers last season.

And he went after guys like Granky, Strassberg, Kershaw. Those pictures are fine. I think Mike Clevengers is better than all of them. What's funny is you, in that other draft you referred to, the head-to-head points dynasty startup, where Trey Turner went in the third round, I had the pick directly before Trey Turner went,

I think, to Chris, actually. And I took Mike Clevenger because I didn't have a pitcher yet. So it's funny that you ended up, you're saying you would have had to go Mike Clevenger there instead of Trey Turner, if Trey Turner had made it to you. That seemed to be what you're suggesting. Yeah.

But yeah, it's the same scenario we talked about before. I don't know why Trey Turner tends to last this long. And again, I think it's kind of an overcompensation thing, gauging his relative value in points from like a roto perspective. He was the second best shortstop and head to head points per game last year behind Bregman. I mean, Bregman was a distant number one. And then Zander Bogartz was third, Fernando Tate's fourth. Trey Turner was second, the 3.82 points per game.

Definitely a studly rate there. So yeah, that was, I was crossing my fingers, as I saw he was still on the draft board and the picks were coming off the board. I was crossing my fingers, he'd make it to me. So that was an automatic pick once I had it. However, I already had Shane Bieber in my pocket. If I didn't, I might be stressing about starting pitcher at that point and would have to pass him up, which would be sad. But that's, again, part of the reason why you take the high-end pitcher, win it. it makes sense to do so.

Would you have taken J.D. Martinez or Trey Turner? Well, you did take Trey Turner. Why did you take him over J.D. Martinez? I think he's better. Not by much. I mean, I guess it's close. Last year, for comparison, J.D. Martinez was 3.66 head to headpoints per game. And Trey Turner, as I mentioned, was 3.82. So he was better per game last year. But of course, there's an injury history. there. I do think there's a good chance JD Martinez underperformed a little last year. Yeah, Martinez was much better than Tray Turner the two years before that.

You know, like every time I argue about Tray Turner, it's always like, well, last year he did this. Well, no, I think at 2017, it's probably closer than you're remembering. But in 2018, definitely, JD Martinez was better than when he got traded to the Diamondback? Was that the year he got traded to the Diamondbacks? Yeah, Tray Turner

was 3.92 in 2017, which was even higher than last year. And J.D. Martinez was 4.07. So Martinez was better, but it was still within the range of, within the same range there. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think we've had enough of Trey Turner debates.

That's cool. Plus, you know, especially in a three outfielder league, I hate filling that outfield too early. So I'd be more likely to lean any infielder when I can justify it, you know. I don't do that, though, with my first outfielder. I'll take my first outfielder whenever. After that, I don't want to take my second or third too early. And I actually ended up with a pretty crappy outfielder here,

so maybe that would have been. My first outfielder is David Dahl, which is, you know, he could end up being fine, obviously, but it's considered, definitely considered a weak first outfielder. Yeah. J.D. Martinez does have an injury history as well, so I don't think we should completely overlook that. Adam, you had the 9th,

pick, your first four picks were Max Scherzer, then you came back and took Anthony Rendon, you took J.D. Martinez in the third, and you took Charlie Morton in the fourth. Is this a typical start for you in a points league? And how do you like the way that your team turned out here? I would say that I typically am going with two hitters and two pitchers with my first four picks. And then I'll kind of go from there. And I will certainly have three pitchers in my first, maybe five, maybe six, definitely seven picks. You know, I wouldn't be surprised if I have four pitchers in my first seven picks. But if we're just going to start, you know, you kind of go with, maybe you say I'm going to do this with my first four picks and then play it out after that.

Yeah, two and two is a safe way to go. You don't have to do that, but it's a safe way to go. I think it'll set you up to like your team and hopefully love your team if you make the right picks later. I do like the way my team played out. I think that in points leagues with hitter spots, kind of what Scott said, you know, position scarcity is sort of important at catcher. Like, it almost makes sense, it doesn't make sense to have a lot of mid-tier players in points leagues. You know, and that's why I don't love having a guy like Paul Goldschmidt,

because I don't think he has elite potential anymore. First base does get kind of thin, but maybe I just wait that out, and I take when Encanacion is my first baseman. He ended up being my utility, oddly enough. But, like, I have Will Smith. I waited a really long time to get him. I have Max Muncie. He's pretty damn good at second base.

I have Rendon. He's obviously elite. I have Carlos Correa, and I took him as a mid-tier guy, but I know that when he's healthy, he can be elite. Well, the thing is, when you say mid-tier, is Max Muncie a mid-tier player? Because he's pretty, you know, he's outside the top five

and probably everybody's second-base ranking. Obviously, you can't pull this off at every position. There's something different to me about Muncie and Goldschmidt. Well, part of the argument, part of the argument I've made for taking starting pitchers earlier this year is that the mid-tier players are actually, at least last year, they basically performed like the high-end players. You have maybe a couple dozen hitters that are just so high-end, nobody can touch them. but you know when you get into like the third round the fourth round the kind of hitters that tend to go there they're not that different from like the seventh and eighth round guys yeah yeah but but you're talking about munsey performed like a high-hand guy right yeah but goldsmith didn't he goldsmith didn't it

that's why i don't love him it was one of the worst seasons of his career if you're if he goldsmith i feel like is being ranked with at least a partial bounce back in mind not that his final numbers were terrible he had more than 30 home runs but it was particularly in this format it was definitely disappointing he did not really perform it's a little like Manny Machado yeah yeah

it is little yeah so Machado's younger but in terms of where he's being ranked relative to what he did last year he's being ranked as if he will perform better whereas a lot of guys are being drafted as if they will perform worse so Goldschmidt who had 34 home runs

97 runs 97 RBI like those totally seemed great. He was 2.98 head-to-head points per game last year, which was less than Yandi Diaz, which was less than Danny Santana, who we think of as a Categories League specialist, certainly less than Muncie.

That was like half a point worse per game than Muncie. So yeah, he was, he's got to be better than that to live up to his ADP. All right, Frank, just my final thoughts on my roster here. I want to have some mid and late round guys with upside. I consider Carlos Correa to be one of them. I think he has a lead upside. I also took Kyle Tucker, and I took a late-round flyer on Nomar Mazar and Justin Upton,

but, you know, Correa and Tucker, those Astros guys, I feel like mid-round, late-round pick with upside. And then, you know, I want to get Scott's, I want to get four of Scott's top 35. I don't think I did that in my, I didn't, I don't know if I did it. Is Ryu in there, Scott? He is. Okay. He is.

He's one of the fringier ones. He's right on the fringes there, but he is technically one of the 35. You know what? I didn't do it. Okay, well, hold on, hold on. I didn't get my 35. Four of my 35. I took Carasco and Maida as my relievers.

When I do that, I don't necessarily feel like I have to do four of the top 35. But Carasco is one of them. Right. So I actually have five of them. But in my rotation, I have just four because Carasco is a reliever. Maida is a reliever. You know, when you do that, you've obviously invested earlier picks at relief pitcher. You don't want to completely forsake you're hitting. So you can be a little bit

weaker in the rotation if you go out and get something like Carasco and Maeda or Lazzardo and Carasco, something like that. You make the investment in your Sparps, I think you can be a little bit weaker at starting pitcher. Because you could always move one of them into your rotation. Pick up a closer on waivers. Yeah, that's something we don't talk about with the Sparps very often. but like a number of closers who we expect to have the job at the start of the season this year just went undrafted here because there's so many spars. And that tends to happen. There tends to be closers on the waiver wire in this format.

And if you're starting, if somebody, if you wind up with this hole and you're starting rotation unexpectedly, it's very likely to happen. You could just move that spark to the rotation and pick up a closer and it'll be fine. That's like a better option than probably a waiver wire starting pitcher. You're right. So that's something else they provide you with is that flexibility. Yeah, I also wound up with four of Scott's top 35 starting pitchers. I have DeGrom.

I took Clevenger in the third, Luis Castillo, on the fourth, and then I took Zach Gowan. I believe it was in the eighth round. So I've been subscribing to this theory before. I even knew it was a theory. So there you go. I guess it's meant to be. But just to piggyback off your point, I think you kind of, like you shot down the possibility of targeting mid-round players, Adam, you say that you don't really want too many

mid-tier players, but at the same time, you made the case for it because you mentioned Carlos Correa, and that's why I like to, you know, outside of Jose Ramirez, who I still consider an elite top-end hitter in this format, I wound up with, the rest of my hitters are all, what I would say, are mid-tier guys, but I all think that they have a decent level of upside. I think LeMayhew is being a little bit undervalued based on what he did last year. Matt Olson, I think, has upside. Mani Machado, I've mentioned it on the podcast. I think the bounce back is there for him. I'm in the other guys don't agree. But Elo Jimenez, I think, has upside. Marcel O'Suna, Eddie Rosario. Those are all guys that I do think have upside and are our mid-tier players.

We don't agree on Matt Olson? No, no, we do. I meant for Mani Machado. Oh, okay. Sorry. I heard the wrong name. Yeah, sorry. I do like targeting that mid-tier for for some of the reasons you guys mentioned. I don't think that they're all too dissimilar from like third, fourth round hitters. I think it just comes down to you don't want to target mid, you want to target mid-round hitters, mid-tier hitters, however you want to define it,

with upside. Yeah. You don't necessarily want to target especially in this format a guy who's like upside is a pretty good player. And I think this is the year for it. Like there are, I think historically Adam is right.

that you don't want to settle for mid-tier players because there are so few advantages to gain over your opponent. You want as many high-tier guys as you can get. But because the middle tier is functionally the high tier right now in the hitter in the hitter pool, I think if there was ever a year to go weaker at hitter, this is it. This is what I've been saying all along. All right, you can find the rest of the results over at CBS.Sports.com. Again, that was our 12-te-to-head points mock draft that we did. last week, you can find those results at CBS Sports.

A few questions here to wrap up the show, Fantasy Baseball at CBSI.com. This one comes from Zach. This question is specifically for you, Scott. He's a huge fan. I'm drafting in Dynasty and a Dynasty startup, my first baseball one, and I had a question about how aggressive to go after pitching.

Obviously, in redraft, we are going bananas for it, but most of the rankings I've seen for Dynasty are very hitter heavy early in the draft. It's a 10-team league. would you go Bueller, Flaherty, or Bieber in the early second? How many of your first six or seven picks would you use on a starting pitcher? So I was part of a Dynasty Sim League startup, 24 teams. I went with a starting pitcher for my first eight picks and was being roundly criticized for it.

And look, it's different. a sim league. Pitchers have more value there over a traditional fantasy league, certainly a 5 by 5 league. I don't know. Does he specify format here, whether it's points or categories? Just 10 team league. So,

I don't think I have a Roto league. I don't think I have a dynasty league that is purely 5 by 5 and maybe my thinking would change there, but I play in some that are points leagues, I play in some that are sim leagues, and all of them are built around pitching right now. And they're all

doing very well. It's riskier. And traditionally, yeah, you build a team around hitting because it's safer because it's more predictable. But pitching is just more valuable right now. It's harder to find. It's it's the place to get an advantage over your opposition. So I'm willing to take the risk that goes with that to have a dominant pitching staff while everybody else is, you know, struggling there. Ten teams, I mean, you got to be more careful there because those high in starting pitchers are going to last longer

and you don't want to pass up somebody who's like it could be a franchise player for you as a hitter. And there are a lot of them available in the first couple rounds. But I think after those top 25 or so hitters are gone, yeah, you can go pretty heavily after starting pitching. I would just point to the trouble we all had filling out

our pitching staff in the all 2020s team as a counterpoint. I think we all felt much, much stronger about who the best hitters for the next decade would be. And obviously for a Dionstee League, you're not drafting for the next decade. But the very good pitchers right now are old. The very young pitchers are definitely unproven. And the young-ish pitchers aren't really that young. There's a lot of guys in the 25 to 27 range. who have maybe one year under their belt,

like a Shane Bieber or a Jack Flaherty. So I tend to go away from pitching even more in Dynasty, personally. This next one is from Chikub, Chris, to your Franken Beans, white chocolate, and towers of Babel. Adam doesn't get a nickname since he's leaving. Did you know that you were leaving at him? Not leaving. Actually, I am going to be leaving.

I'm taking the rest of the week off. But other than that, now. Every time you say you're not leaving and you're not going anywhere, you're like leave for the next five episodes. Sorry. So you're not doing a good, you're not doing a great job here of disproving that theory at him. But Chai Cubs Chris,

he's in a 10-team six-by-six season-long roto with quality starts added as a sixth pitching category. Does it make sense to punt saves and focus on hitting and starting pitching since a starting pitcher can contribute in five of six categories. We do have a max inning's pitch limit. Does it even make sense to punt a category in this type of format? P.S. Beeferoni is the best. Chef Boyardee has to offer, Adam.

You should give it a try. They're all the same. Come on. The pasta is just a different shape. The meat's in a different location. I think... Get real. It makes...

The more categories you have, the more sense it makes... makes to punt a single category because the harder it's going to be to compete in every single category. So in this one, it does depend on what the max inning pitch limit is, but assuming it's not too low, yeah, I think stacking your starting lineup with pitchers, with starting pitchers, and punting relievers makes a ton of sense in this format. I'm at least punting it on draft day. You know, you can see what kind of players you can pick up throughout the season so you don't have to necessarily take a zero in saves, but absolutely agree on draft day punted up. This last email that we're going to do for today, it's a little bit of a surprise, probably

for Scott White more than anybody. Hey guys, I'm sure you're aware that MLB players are representing their teams and are playing against each other in the MLB the show tournaments and streaming them live on different platforms. Last night, I was watching Ty Buttree finish up his match, and afterwards, he answered some questions from some people watching. In honor of Scott, I immediately jumped in and asked if he prefers his waffles syrupy or butchery. And he answered me. He said he likes them soggy but not burned.

I don't think he got it, but I still found it hilarious, especially after reading my question out loud in a Michael Cain voice as I typed it. Dude, this was awesome. He sent me the video of Ty Butchery answering these questions. and you can see on the video,

it's like two hours and five minutes in, I didn't watch the whole thing. You can see on the video the question's scrolling in on the right and there's the, do you like your waffles, butchery, syrupy or butchery? And I think somebody told him

to read the question or read it to him and they did not include the butchery part. They just said, do you like your waffles syrupy? And then he answered. But like the whole joke

is the And it was such a great effort by our listener. It's going meta now. I haven't done that in a while. Well, don't wait too long, Scott. The people are demanding it. But don't do it now because, you know, do it earlier in the show. Don't do it this week because I want to be on when you do it.

I don't have anything prepared. That's the difficult part. You have to have something prepared. I can't go on for a minute like that. Just top of mind. Are you crazy? It seems like you can. You pretty well.

I haven't yet. I did have waffles for breakfast today. They were covered in syrup. And waffles are still better than pancakes. So I'll just throw that out there to end the show. Host get the last word now. You know, it's something I have to adjust to. Adam will not be here for the rest of the week.

But I assume he'll be back at some point. We hope. For Adam, Scott, and Chris, I am Frank. This was fantasy baseball today. Thank you all for listening. We will see you again tomorrow.