Fantasy Baseball Today - Second Base Recap & Early 2023 Rankings! (11/1 Fantasy Baseball Podcast)

Episode Date: November 1, 2022

Welcome to November! How are the rankings coming along (2:35)? ... How bad is second base (5:15)? ... Will Jose Altuve be undervalued again (8:12)? ... Marcus Semien was one of just four 25-25 hitters this past season (12:15). ... Does Tommy Edman have a safe floor (16:05)? ... Andres Gimenez broke out in a big way (18:52). ... Gleyber Torres got back on track (22:00). ... What do we do with Thairo Estrada (24:21)? ... McNeil and Arraez provide batting average but not much else (26:25). ... Who is the real Jake Cronenworth (29:55)? ... Why is Scott out on Josh Rojas (32:46)? ... Let's take a look at the top-10 second base rankings for 2023 (39:00). ... What sleepers emerge in the top-20 (55:40)? Fantasy Baseball Today' is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, Castbox and wherever else you listen to podcasts.  Get 20% off Fantasy Baseball Today merch: https://store.cbssports.com/collections/fantasy-baseball-today?utm_source=podcast-apple-com&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=buy-our-merch&utm_content=fantasy-baseball-collection Follow FBT on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@fbtpod?_t=8WyMkPdKOJ1&_r=1 Follow our FBT team on Twitter: @FBTPod, @CTowersCBS, @CBSScottWhite, @Roto_Frank Join our Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/fantasybaseballtoday Sign up for the FBT Newsletter at https://www.cbssports.com/newsletters/fantasy-baseball-today/ For more fantasy baseball coverage from CBS Sports, visit https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/ To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ Subscribe to our YouTube channel: youtube.com/FantasyBaseballToday You can listen to Fantasy Baseball Today on your smart speakers! Simply say "Alexa, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Baseball Today podcast" or "Hey Google, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Baseball Today podcast." To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Fantasy Baseball Today podcast from CBS Sports. Got a fantasy question, email Fantasy Baseball at CBSI.com. Get ready to win your lead. Where fantasy becomes reality. Now here's Frank, Scott, and Chris. I'm just going to come out and say, second base is bad. Welcome into Fantasy Baseball today. And welcome to November.

I am Frank Stamphill, joined by Scott White. You guessed it. Today on the show, Second Base Year and Review. view and a look at Scott's early 2023 rankings at the second base position, recording this a little in advance. So we actually don't know what's going on in the World Series. I just hope the Phillies are winning. So let's go Phillies.

Scott, before we started, you mentioned Movember. What do you say you grow a mustache for the month, huh? How about no, Frank? How about no? Yes, I'm not going to do that. It would not, nobody would enjoy that, Frank. Nobody at all. You would not like it.

I disagree. I would not like it. I think I would love it. My wife would not like it. Have you ever asked? Which means I would not like it. It would be bad. All right.

Anyway, how are the pitcher rankings going? I know you've been throwing up polls left and right on Twitter. I can't imagine ranking pitchers in October. It seems kind of tough. How's it going? Oh, I think ranking pitchers. pitchers this year is going to be tough no matter when you do it. It's just, it means that the position has become very deep,

that it's hard to differentiate between the quality options at the top of the list. We've talked before, you know, even one in the season was still going on, how it looks like there's a clear top seven, but just distinguishing between those seven is hard enough. When you get to number eight through number like, 32, it's just as hard in that range to sort out what order we should be drafting the starting pitchers. So yeah, it's been a headache. And it goes beyond that even.

I mean, I would say now that I've had a chance to really dive into it, starting pitcher looks 60 strong, like 60 options that I feel really good about having in my starting lineup to begin 2023. It's not like there's nobody good after 60. It's just 60 I feel really good about. So, yeah, it's a position where certainly going to reverse course from the past couple seasons targeting starting pitchers early. I think I'm going to go back to the more traditional approach to fantasy baseball, the one I long held really loading up on hitters early. And as we've talked about with these early position recaps slash previews,

emphasizing position eligibility within the hitter pool. I think that's the more I look at these, the more I look at how that pool is shaping up, the more I think that's the way to go in 2023. For anyone who's watched or listened the past couple of years, you'll remember that Scott was adamant the past couple of seasons to get five or six of his top 30 or 35. But the landscape and fantasy baseball has changed.

I'll be interested to know, once we get to starting pitcher, we've got some time before we get there, how many of those top 60 you are aiming to get in drafts? But as I mentioned, we'll get the starting pitcher in a couple of weeks from now. But let's jump into second base. Obviously, we're going to recap the top 10 from this past season. And I can tell you, by the time we get to like six or seven, it's just who are we even talking about?

Look, there was a lot of injuries at the position. I will say that. Jazz Chisholm, Ozzy Albies, Brandon Lau, Jorge Polanco, Cotel Marte, Jonathan, India. Those guys will still be ranked relatively early for next season. But, yeah, obviously that killed the production in 2022. Scott. And the position is losing Trey Turner.

It's losing Mookie Betts, who only briefly gained, who only gained eligibility at second base late in the year. But still, it's losing Mookie Betts for the start of next year. It's losing Thai France. Let me see. It's losing Nico Horner, to whatever extent, that matters. It's losing Javier Baez.

It's losing quite a few players making what was already a thin crop even thinner. So that brings me to my first question before we even get into the recap. Normally Scott, I don't draft for position scarcity.

I think that normally that's a way to almost pass up on more productive players just to just to avoid feeling uncomfortable, I guess, is a way to put it in your draft, you know? But I think that I will target second base early

for all the reasons that I mentioned. I mean, this position is really bad. And we do have some pretty strong names up top, but honestly, if you get past the first five or six rounds of the draft without a second baseman, I think you're probably going to feel pretty bad about whoever you get at that point. Well, yeah, and I mean, the idea of position scarcity, it goes back to

to a time that a lot of people don't even remember in fantasy baseball because the juice ball era lasted for so long and it it leveled the playing field in terms of power so much that there wasn't a position that was that scarce really except for maybe catcher just because catcher is catcher. But across the infield, the positions were pretty balanced. And so there wasn't much need to play. the position scarcity game for a span of over five years.

And I pointed this out during that time as I was releasing my position tiers articles that I've been writing for 15 years now and continued to write them because it's a popular piece of content, but I didn't feel like they were as relevant as they used to be because the drop-offs at positions weren't as extreme and where the drop-offs did exist. They weren't as impactful.

But I think we're getting back to a point We're seeing it here at second base We're seeing it. We're going to see it at third base. We're seeing it at every position to some extent Where when the drop-off comes, it can be Cripling. Like, you're going to have a black hole in your lineup if you don't get on the right side of that.

And I think that, I think that the game of fantasy baseball is more interesting that way, but it's going to be jarring for a lot of people who don't have a memory of what that's like. All right. So let's jump in. and Scott already mentioned, Trey Turner did finish as the highest rated second baseman this past season,

but we'll not have second base eligibility. So let's move on to the next name, who will be second base eligible next year. And that was Jose Altuve, who finishes the 19th overall player in Roto. He averaged 3.6 fantasy points per game. That was second at the position, but it was actually first,

if you don't consider Mookie Betts. Altuve was the sixth second baseman off the board last year, with an 80p of 56. So it did pay off quite a bit of value. he hit 300, 28 homers, 103 runs, 57 RBI, 18 steals.

He led the position in runs and home runs. His 18 steals were his most since 2017. He had a total, a total of 13 steals from 2019 through 2021.

So this just kind of came out of nowhere, a running renaissance for Jose Altuve. And Scott, I can already tell you, much like Paul Gulchman, people will not be enthusiastic to draft Jose Al Tuvei in the second or even the third round.

I think we're going to see drafts where he falls to the fourth round and maybe even beyond that next year. He's not falling by me. I can tell you that much. I thought it was ridiculous how much he was sliding even prior to this year. The disrespect Jose Altuve has gotten in fantasy. It really dates back to the cheating scandal breaking. I don't know if that's necessarily the reason.

for it or if it was that decline in stolen bases that he's now reversed this past year and at a good time because if he's if he's back to showing that willingness to run running is going to become a lot easier next year as i've pointed out and we could see uh hose a l two of me maybe get back to being a 25 30 steel guy i think it's in the realm of possibility i'm not going to predict it but i think it's i think it's possible for him again if the environment changes like i think it will. But leaving that out, leaving that off the table, just looking at what he did, what he's been doing the past couple years where he's gotten this disrespect and fantasy. It's been a very easy pick for me, and that's going to be especially true this upcoming year. If you're drafting

with me, he's probably not making it past round three, because I'm going to gobble up that every time. You mentioned he was second at the position in points per game, but first, if you eliminate mokey bats, which you should because bats isn't going to be eligible next year. So let's just say Altuve was first in points per game among second baseman in 2022. The gap between him and number two at second base

for points per game was bigger than at every other position except the outfield. The gap between Judge and number two and outfield was bigger. But otherwise, Altuve and the number two second baseman, that's the biggest gap. And like I said, I don't see a lot of

reason to doubt what he did. He's been certainly in the hitting stats, the stolen base he's a question, but again, the landscape's changing. So I don't think that's going to be so much of an issue for him either. I think he's just going to be I think he's going to be awesome again. And there's only two second

basement I feel comfortable saying that about in the whole player pool. So if I'm not getting Altuve, I'm getting Marcus Simeon. It's the other one. That's going to be one of my top draft priorities this year, because I really don't want to be left high and dry at this position.

And we'll get to Marcus Semyon in just a bit, but I do want to wrap up on Altuve that he's been a top 30 overall player in Roto each of the past two seasons. So again, he's proven it year over year. Some people might look at the stat cast numbers. They're bad, but they've been bad. Nothing has changed. He's an extreme pull hitter. He puts the ball in the air, takes advantage of the short porch and left field in Houston, and he continues to be productive. Some people point to the age. He's 33 years old. in May next year, but again, he's still been extremely productive. So none of those things really matter much to me.

I'm with you, Scott. I think I'm going to be drafting quite a bit of Jose Al-Tufe. I've done one draft. I'm one for one. I already got Jose Al-Tuvae in one of those. Second at the second base position last year was last year. It's still this year, technically. Last season, I guess.

Marcus Simeon, you mentioned him. He finished 25th overall in Roto, 3.1 fantasy points per game. That was sixth at the position. He had an ADP of 30 last. year, so actually did pay off a little bit of value based on where he was drafted. He hit 248, 26 homers, 101 runs, 83 RBI, 25 steals. Not quite a five-category contributor because the batting average is meh, but certainly is a four-category contributor, one of only four hitters to go 25-25 this past season.

And speaking of the season, it was a tale of two seasons, basically, for Semion. the first two months of the season, he hit $199 with a $5.40 OPS, final four months, 268, 25 homers, and 810 OPS. I kind of feel like we can trust who Marcus Semi and his gut. Yeah, and good for him because we were all doubting him at this time last year coming off a career year in Toronto. And then, oh, I don't know that we knew yet that he was going to Texas, but that didn't seem like the best shift for him. and for the first couple months it looks like we were right about that

but then he turned it on as you pointed out I believe he was one of just four 25 25 guys correct yeah so and at the position where there's the least to get excited about that that makes it even more reason to to be enthusiastic about Marcus Simia going forward I do worry that if the humidors are calibrated the same way moving forward, set to the same temperature, the same humidity that they were in 2022, that the slow starts could become the norm for Marcus Semyon.

It could become the norm for a lot of players. It stayed pretty cold throughout the league deep into May, and maybe that won't be the case every year. But at least in April, it should be pretty cold around the league. And the ball doesn't carry as well. It carries even worse when it's weighed down by those humidor settings. And for somebody like Marcus Simeon,

who doesn't hit the ball that hard naturally, it's a real obstacle to overcome. But just keep in mind next year if it happens again to stick with him because the final results should be good. I mostly trust Marcus Simeon at this point, Scott. You tell me if I'm overthinking this one. The only question I have is manager tendencies. So the Rangers as a team, they ran a lot under Chris Woodward the entire time while he was there.

Their new manager is Bruce Bochy, who was with the Giants from 2007 to 2019. I don't know how relevant these stats are because obviously stolen base numbers are dependent on who you have on your team most of the time and your personnel. But during his time with the Giants, they ranked 24th out of 30 teams in steals. Does that matter at all? Do you worry about maybe Bochi not being as aggressive with the Rangers on the base paths? I was with the Padres a long time before the Giants, and I recall him having some big base Steelers during that time. But I don't even think it's worth looking into,

because, again, with the rule changes being put in place next year, I feel like you can throw out most everything you know about stolen bases. And I understand that's uncomfortable. You'd rather have a baseline expectation for what's going to happen for every player. But I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment by doing that. All right. Let's move on to the third best second baseman this past season. That was Tommy Edmund, who will have second base and shortstop eligibility next year.

He finished 47th overall. He averaged 2.9 fantasy points per game. he was the 13th second basement off the board with an ADP of 114, so did pay off a lot of value in 2022. He hit 265, 13 homers, 95 run scored, 57 RBI, 32 steals,

basically identical to his 2021 season. So it kind of feels like we should know who Tommy Edmund is, but I don't know, Scott. He's still kind of a hard player for me to figure out. He got moved down to the bottom of the lot, lineup at points throughout the season. He was hitting ninth for a while. I feel like as streaky as Tommy Edmund is, his floor is that he can get benched at some point. I don't know if that's fair

or not, but I don't know. I just, I still kind of have this worry when it comes to Tommy Edmund. What do you think? I think it's not totally unfounded. That concern. With each passing year, it seems less likely. But look, just by the pure hitting metrics, the ones that tell us whether a player is a good hitter or not, Edmund isn't. And, you know, he's so versatile. And obviously there is that speed element that teams value, at least to some degree, feels like he's stayed good enough as a hitter to stick in the lineup. But could that change someday? I mean, Nolan Gorman doesn't have a dedicated lineup spot right now. Now he's not going to be able to play shortstop like Edmund mostly did down the stretch.

So maybe that maybe just the fact that Edmund can be their shortstop salvages it. But I don't know. I don't think it's totally unfounded, but I don't think it's a huge concern. I don't think it's reason to avoid admin necessarily. I think the bigger reason to avoid Edmund would be that he's mainly given you stolen bases. and are you going to need him to do that as much next year? It's been the most sought after stat in five-by-five leagues for several years, but I kind of feel like that's going to change.

And if it does, does the benefit of having Edmund outweigh the downsides? And I'm not sure it does. So he's not going to be a high priority for me next year. I'll tell you that. There certainly comes a point where I would take him. But I'm going to guess somebody else's will take him sooner just because of that emphasis on steals that's existed for so long. All right. Brandon Drury was fourth at the position, but we're saving him for third base.

So let's move on to Andres Jimenez, who had a breakout season. 63rd overall in Roto, he averaged 2.8 fantasy points per game. He was one of the, I guess you can consider him a league winner. Yeah, I would. his ADP was outside the top 300. So some people might have even picked him up as a waiver wire ad. And he returned top 70 value. So he was really, really good.

As I mentioned, career year, still just 24 years old. He hit 297, 17 home runs, 66 runs, 69 RBI, 20 steals. Obviously, you'd like for the counting stats to be better. But I feel like he was batting towards the bottom of the lineup for a large portion of the early season at least. And then he finally got moved up. So maybe those numbers can improve. but he did exactly that. He improved.

He lowered the strikeout rate quite a bit. He crushed lefties as a left-handed batter. 336 batting average, 887 OPS. I like the player quite a bit, Scott. I'm going to be interested to see what the cost is, but if it's reasonable, I could see being in on Andres Jimenez. Yeah, he looks like a guy who could contribute

in all five categories. I will note that he outperforms the stat-cast metrics. but he did that as a 23-year-old. He had a near 2020 season as a 23-year-old while qualifying at the weakest position in fantasy. And I think that alone is a pretty strong endorsement for him. Like, just the idea of him getting stronger

and developing in all the ways players develop, if he's already able to do this, even if it was maybe him playing a little over his head, you know, I think there's a lot of reason to be hopeful for Andrus Jimenez moving forward. And my favorite stat for him, actually, it has nothing to do with fantasy, but I feel like it's worth pointing out. Andres Jimenez, in terms of war, at least according to baseball reference, I actually haven't checked Van Graves. But according to baseball reference, war, Andres Jimenez 7.2 this year. year.

Francisco Lindoor's best war in all his years in Cleveland. Remember, Andres Hamanus came over to the Guardians in the Lendor trade. Lendor's best war in all his years in Cleveland also, 7.2. Hmm.

That is pretty interesting. Actually, that's crazy. I'm looking at fan graphs, and they had Andres Jimenez at 6.1. And for Lindor in 20, 2018, he was at 7.8. So, that's according to fan graphs.

Either way you look at it, the fact that Andres Jimenez was that productive, that soon after the trade for Lindor. I mean, you know, at the time, we all thought it was a crate, like, what is Cleveland doing? This is a crazy trade. And, you know, it turns out that Jimenez and Ahmed Rosario have turned out to be, you know, quality players at the major league level. Let's move on to fifth at the second base position.

That was Glaber Torres. He finished 77th overall. in Roto, 2.7 fantasy points per game. He had an ADP of 179 before the season, so jumped up over 100 spots in value. It was a big bounce back season after two very disappointing ones. Glaber hit 257, 24 home runs, 73 runs,

76 RBI, and 10 seals. You might ask yourself, well, why? How did this happen? First thing I noticed, Scott, and I noticed this very early in the season, he was much more aggressive. His swing percentage and his chase rate were both the highest since 2019.

And normally, you don't want hitters to be too aggressive, but if you look at those type of statistics, the past two years, he was too patient, borderline passive at times. I don't really know what went into that. But yeah, it was something that I noticed for quite a while, and so he was aggressive,

and he hit the ball much harder than he ever did before. So can you see yourself being in on someone like Claibor Torres next year? Not really. No. I mean, not that I'm going to be out. I think he can do this again. I think we're already beyond the point where you're talking a real game changer in fantasy. Unless he ups his steals production.

He had 10. I mean, that's obviously a pretty good total this year. I don't see him as a base dealer. But again, you kind of thrown out, kind of thrown out everything. I know about stolen bases. So I'll at least keep an open mind on that front It's encouraging that he regained some of the power he lost Because he's going to need it

It's just he doesn't bring much to the table That I can see right now beyond You know a pretty good home run total But not a great home run total Yeah, it's just kind of a boring fallback option I feel like And Glaber did rank 40th percentile in sprint speed this past year So he's not fast by any means, but the past two years he's done a good job of picking his spots. I think he has like

24 or 25 steals over the past two seasons. So I think you kind of just pencil him in for 10, but maybe based on the landscape next year, he can get up to 15 to 20, something like that. This is where things get interesting, Scott. Sixth best at the position this past year. Tyro Estrada, who played for the Giants. He finished 94th overall, 2.6 fantasy points per game. Basically was not drafted. He was someone who was picked up, I would say relatively early on in the season. He hit 260, 14 home runs, 71 run scored, 62 RBI, 21 steals. 14 homers, 20 steals. That's pretty productive player. I don't want to downplay what he did too much. He makes a lot of contact, just a 16.5% strikeout rate. Also hits a lot of ground balls. Doesn't hit the ball very hard.

It's pretty fast. 75th percentile in sprint speed. Crushes lefties. not good against Wrighty, Scott. So I don't really know what to make of Tyro Estrada. And given the fact that he plays for the Giants, it would not surprise me if he becomes a Blatoon player at some point. Yeah, he's been a tough one. It was a tough one to figure out all year. He got picked up so quickly that we never much talked about him.

He wasn't on anybody's radar coming into the season. And he got scooped up so quickly that it was kind of rostered beyond the point where we talked about him much on the podcast during the season. but it was surprising how useful he ended up being I don't I don't see a lot of upside here and as you point out

he could run into playing time issues I think part of the reason he ended up ranking so high is the number of second base eligible players who either underachieved or got hurt so I don't even have him in my top 20 going into next year I'm not saying there's no point in drafting Estrada,

but it would have to be late as like a middle-in-field option in a Roto League. Yeah, I think that's fair. I was going to pull up some early, very early ADP just to see where he's going, but it's taking me quite a bit of time. So I'm just going to move on and maybe I'll come back to it here and let you know what's going on with Tyro Estrada. These next two, Scott, I'm going to put together, seven and eight at second base.

Jeff McNeil and Luis Arise. And you could probably guess why. I'm putting them together because they are very similar. They're the same guy. Yeah, it's the Spider-Man meme all over again. Jeff McNeil finished 98th overall in Roto, 2.7 fantasy points for game. Luis Arise 108 overall in Roto,

2.8 fantasy points for game. So even by those metrics, they were very, very similar players. McNeil hit 327. He led the National League. He actually led all baseball in batting average. He won the NL batting title. Luis Arise hit

316, he won the American League batting title. It was nine homers for Jeff McNeil, eight home runs for Louisa Rice. You look at their lack of power. 128 isolated power for Jeff McNeil. 24th lowest among qualified hitters. Luis Arise in that same stat, 104. He was 12th lowest.

So I feel like if you draft these guys, Scott, it has to be in a very particular roster construction where maybe you just took a bunch of, bunch of sluggers and you need to improve your batting average. But outside of that, it just does not really move the needle for me whatsoever. Well, and yet they finished seventh and eighth of this position in the league's last year, which I think they were both top 110 players, you know, like, but we're talking about guys who don't contribute power, who don't contribute speed. Both of them for part of last year were platoon players. Yeah. And yet they finished seventh and eighth at this

position, according to our roto formula. which, I mean, it kind of sums up the state of second base. I do like them more than Tyro Estrada for next year, but yeah, they're kind of category specialists. And when I wrote it, if you go look up my second base, my early second base rankings on the site, I wrote up the top 20, and McNeil rounded it out. He was number 20, but it could have been a rise,

and I address it there right in the article, that they're basically the same guy. The reason I gave McNeil a little bit of an edge is because he seems like less of a platoon risk. He's not as bad against same-handed pitchers as Louise Arises. And McNeil's secondary eligibility is the outfield while Arise is first base.

So outfield's more useful than first base. And you'd be more likely to play McNeil at that second position than you would arise at his. Yeah, that's how I rank them, but we're talking about rounding out the top 20 as opposed to being in the top 10. And even in points league, Scott, which you would figure is their better format because they make so much contacts, they, you know, walk a decent amount. Louisa Rise had more walks than strikeouts this past season. But even with that, you know, 2.8 and 2.7 fantasy points per game, they're not necessarily standouts. They're fine, their high floor plays.

but I think, especially in a points league, there's someone you would take later on, and you're not expecting much upside. So, again, it's just not really excited to draft either one of those guys. I did pull up the Razball Player Raider, Scott. So they have their own 5x5 algorithm, and they weigh out and value the players as well. They have Jeff McNeil at 110th,

and Louisa Rise at 114. So not dissimilar from where they rank on CBS, 5x5. But yeah, either way, they were both top 115 players regardless. The ninth best second baseman this past season was Jake Cronoworth. He finished 109th overall. Average 2.7 fantasy points per game. He had an ADP of 121 before the season. So gave you a tiny bit of profit based on where you drafted him.

240 batting average, 17 homers, 88 runs, 88 RBI, and 158 games. Jake Croninworth to me, Scott, has become the poster child. of a volume play where he just accumulates these counting stats because he plays every single day, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I just don't know how good of a hitter he actually is on a per game basis for fantasy purposes. I noticed an interesting progression in his career. He came up as a contact hitter in the short in 2020 season. Highline drive approach. Statcast actually loved him in the short and season. But now he started to sell out for power. So, His fly ball rate has gone from 29% to 36% to 48% this past season.

And his OPS has gone from 831 to 800 to 727. So you just see how those things almost directly correlate for Jake Cronoworth. I think he's fine. I don't know that he offers much upside either. Well, I hit 21 home runs in his first full season last year. And I think, as you point out, looking at that. that escalating fly ball rate, he kind of became home run conscience and you kind of sold out for them, like you said. And that's, I don't think that's going to be a winning formula with the

ball being in use now, with the humidor being in use now. He probably is better off lowering that launch angle, getting back to being a line drive hitters, maybe turning out to be something like Jeff McNeil and Luis Arise contributing more in batting average than power. So I don't think we, I don't think we know exactly who Jay Kronenworth is yet. But if he remains this, then yeah, he's kind of a batting average liability who helps enough in the counting stats just because he plays so much. And I don't see that changing. But again, we're talking about a pretty boring option overall. And to that point, Scott, if Fernando Tatis Jr. is healthy next year and plays a majority of the season, these counting stats could be even better.

for Jake Cronoworth. I kind of wish he would blend this new approach with what we saw in 2020. Maybe don't completely sell out for line drives and being a contact hitter, but maybe like a 270 with 15 homers, really good counting stats. I feel like that would wind up being a more productive player,

but I do agree. I think it's kind of hard to figure out, like who is the real Jake Cronowardt at this point. Number 10 at the position was Josh Rojas, who actually played most of his games at third base, but let's just include him here, Scott, because I really don't want to go much further down the list. He finished 114th overall in Roto,

2.8 fantasy points per game, had an ADP of 281 before the season, so actually turned out to be quite valuable on the season. And he had 269, nine homers, 23 steals in only 125 games. That is a 11 homer, 28-steel pace over 150 games. really strong plate discipline, Scott. He's always walked a lot. Over 10% walk rate in his career.

Got his strikeout rate down below 20%. Hits a lot of line drives. Hits a ball relatively hard for a middle infield eligible player. I think he's fine. I think he's kind of interesting. You know, solid batting average, good plate discipline, maybe 10 to 15 homers and 25 plus steals.

That's a valuable player and probably better for Roto in category leagues. I'm going to say something that may sound contrary. I'm given how much I've talked about the stolen base

landscape changing next year, but I don't trust Josh Rojas to steal 23 bases again. And if he doesn't, I don't see a lot

else going on there. So I'm definitely going to be fading him next year. He only has 50th percentile sprint speed. He hadn't shown

much base stealing prowess prior to this year. By the end of, you know, different points during the year, including toward the end of the season, he wasn't an everyday player for the Diamondbacks. And I just don't see a lot to like here. So Josh Rojas is, he ranks behind Tyro Estrada for me going into next year,

which means he's not in my top 20 at this position. That is interesting, considering he plays the two most shallow positions, right? Second base and third base. 15 of his 23 steals came in the second half. That's pretty impressive, Scott. I mean, 15 steals in 62 games. I know that he hasn't done it before, but the Diamondbacks were really aggressive

on the base pass in the second half, and I think that's going to be their MO moving forward, too. The other thing you have to consider is does he stay in the lineup? Yeah, I mean, he was pretty bad. He doesn't look like a championship piece, you know? And I'm not saying the timebacks are going. championship team, but like they're bringing in a lot of young guys.

They're, um, who is playing third base for them by the end. Primarily, I think it was that guy they got from the Royals who's no big deal. Emmanuel Rivera. Yeah. That's the thing, guys. I don't really see. Is there a, is there a player that's going to come in and prevent him from playing? I just don't know.

I don't know that there's going to be. Okay, so first of all, if Cattel Marte is healthy, he's second base, obviously. and he is a better second baseman than outfielder. Shortstop is, well, at some point it might be Jordan Lawler anchoring that spot. And if it does become Lawler, then hang on here, pulling up shortstop. Okay, so it was, it was Geraldo Perdomo primarily playing shortstop. I don't know. Like I'm not saying Rojas is just going to become a straight-up bench guy,

but I see him, you know, it's kind of like, it's kind of another John Birdie situation where, yeah, there may be stretches where he's an everyday player, or there may be stretches where he's not. And if somebody better comes along, I don't think, I don't think the Diamondbacks will hesitate to kind of brush him aside. Okay.

I think he's a better hitter than John Birdy, I mean, just in terms of like the plate discipline that we've seen so far at least, but I get it. I mean, I guess I could see both sides. He did struggle mightily against left-handed pitching this past season. He was better against them in previous seasons, so maybe this is an aberration, but we'll see.

See what happens with Josh Rojas. Let's take a break, but before we do that, just want to remind anybody who is watching us to hit the like button and subscribe to the channel. If you haven't already, drop a comment. Definitely would appreciate that. Let us know who you're going to be drafting at second base next season.

And for those listening, please hook us up with a five-star rating and a review on Apple. or Spotify, no matter where you listen. Let's take a break, and we'll get to Scott's early 2023 rankings here on Fantasy Baseball today. The 2023 rankings for second base. Let's start with the top five at the position,

and it should not surprise anybody. That number one is Jose Altovae, followed by Marcus Semiun, Ozzy Albies, Jazz Chisholm, and Trevor Story. So three names there, Scott, that we have not talked about yet in this podcast, and ones that we definitely need to talk. about starting right now because they're all very valuable players when they're on the field

Trevor Story, Jazz, Ozzy Albies, they all dealt with differing injuries this past season, but were extremely limited, especially Albi's just so unlucky. I mean, he fractured his foot in June. He came back. He's ready to be a part of the postseason run. And then he fractured his finger in September. I mean, frankly, it's just bad luck. He was pretty disappointing before that. So I will point that out, but each of the past three full seasons before this year, he was a top 45 player in each of those. So, Ozzy Albies is a weird hitter, Scott, where he doesn't really rank highly in like OPS or weighted runs, creative plus, like these all-encompassing hitter stats, but he just has enough power and speed to find a way to get by and be valuable. So I think

I'm going to be in once again on Ozzy Albies. What do you think? Yeah Yeah What I think is going to happen though And I don't know if the little bit of drafting You've seen or done Backs this up It could be that just

Albi's as a forgotten man Because he missed so much the year And that tends to happen With these early mock drafts But I kind of get the feeling He's going to be drafted ahead of Jose Altuve Just because of that

Seeming bias against Altuve And The The the widespread preference for younger guys. I mean, Ozzy Albies, he's still only 25,

you know? Yeah. And the 25-year-old, he'll be 26 at that point, versus the 33-year-old Altoouet. I mean, just, I think some people are just going to not make it much more complicated than that.

Oh, I want Ozzy Albies. He's the guy with upside. I don't think he really has much room to improve over who he's already been, but I think a lot of people will look at that that way. And if that's the case, there's no way I'm drafting any Ozzy Albies, you know. But if it plays out like my rankings, and Ozzy Albi's is the third second basement drafted behind Altufe and Simeon,

then I'd be fine taking him. You did mention that he had only 247, had only a 703 OPS. Those were not very good. Those were both career lows. however, he fractured his foot in the middle of June. So most of the season that he did play came during those coldest months where everybody was struggling.

And he is a guy who doesn't hit the ball very hard and who puts it in the air a ton. So he has that exact sort of profile like Marcus Simeon that would struggle in those environmental conditions. So I presume that if he got a full, season. He got to play when it was warmer that his numbers would have corrected like Marcus Simeon's did. Five drafts have been done over on the NFBC so far, Scott. Ozzy Albi's

ADP is 38.4. Jose Altuve is 46.2. Yeah, if it's already happening, I think that's going to keep happening. Well, here's my only argument for Ozzy Albi, Scott, is that we just saw a pretty great season, an elite season from Jose Altuve. He was the top 20 player. He finished 19th overall in Roto. Ozzie Albies was better in his last full season. 2021, he was 16th overall. So you can argue that his upside is higher and he's the younger player. So I guess, yeah, he had a career high 30 homers that year. He had a career high 20 steals. So I don't know that he's ever going to be that good again. He scored 103 runs. He, he, drove in a hundred six.

Like those are going to be hard numbers for Ozzy Albis to repeat. I think, you know, just looking at it, line item by line item, Jose Altuve, clearly the better batting average bet. Correct. I would say he's the better home run bet.

Stolen bases, I'll give the edge to Albies, but not by much. That was, his second most stolen bases in his season is 15, less than Altuve had this past year. So, yeah, I'd rather have Altuvei. It's close though.

I think it's pretty close. I think you can argue the Bray's lineup is actually better than the Astros. As good as the Astros are, right? Like Altuve had 57 RBI. Ozzy Albies you mentioned had 100 previous season. So we'll see. It's pretty close between those two. Jazz Chisholman's fourth on this list got in your rankings

and he was off to a tremendous star. 254 batting average, 14 homers, 12 steals in 60 games. For whatever reason, two years in a row when nobody else is hitting, Chad Chisholm is the one hitting. That is a 35 homer, 30 steel pace over 150 games. Can he play that many games?

I don't know. He's dealt with a bunch of injuries the past couple of seasons. Stress fracture in his back this year. Also turned out that he had a torn meniscus, so he's got to come back from that stuff. He's got to prove that he could stay healthy. But he is a clear stat-cast standout

at this position, Scott. He crushes the ball. point four exit velocity, 16.7% bowel rate, that's just not something you see from another second basement. Yeah, I'm in on jazz Chisholm now. I was out on him last year. And, you know, I'd still rather just get out Tuvei or Simeon and be done with it, not have to deal with injury risks or performance risks or anything like that at the position. But if I had to settle for Chisholm, it wouldn't be the worst thing. My biggest concern with him now is just staying healthy. I'm not so concerned about performance anymore. He is one of the few

second basemen who actually does impact the ball very hard, as you point out. And he's going to be one of the most prolific base Steelers at the position. He does still strike out too much, but it's trending the right way. So I'm getting more optimistic about Chisholm's long-term prospects and fantasy when, you know, for the most part, I've been on the negative side of the ledger until now. Does it matter to you that he is awful against left-handed pitching? 223 batting average, 6-61 OPS in his career.

It was somehow even worse than that in 2022. Yeah, not really. I mean, left-handers against left-handers, you expect them to be bad? I've seen worse, certainly. He's so young, you could get better, but it's not going to impact its playing time, which would be the main concern for me.

All right. The last name in this top five is Trevor Story, who only played 94 games, but did wind up hitting 238 with 16 home runs and 13 steals. That is a 25 homer 20 steel pace over 150 games. And he's another player who got off to a really slow start. Obviously, coming over from Colorado and Cordes Field

playing in a new, a brand new environment. Fenway, Boston, new position playing second base. I think it's easy to kind of give him a mulligan early on in the season, Scott. But once he started to get going, he kind of looked like Trevor's story. If we had a good discount on him, I'll be in. This is one where I could see,

like, let's jump in on Trevor's story. I think he can get back to having an elite season. I don't think he can. can get back to being elite myself. And let me see. So I remember my, sometimes I remember my broad takeaways when I do these deep dives on players,

but then I forget the specifics. So he had nine home runs in May, but still hit just 2. 218 for the month. And then you know, even after May,

obviously he missed a lot of time with injury but after May he still got 189 at bats he hit 254 had a 731 OPS the power's there speed is there it's not like he's a bad option particularly at this position

but I do think it's safe to conclude looking at this first year in Boston looking at his final year in Colorado that he's not much up in batting average anymore. He's going to be a liability in that category, if anything. Obviously, he's not going to get all the bad boosts that he got in Colorado. And the strikeout rate is climbing as well, which isn't going to help in the batting average.

His expected batting average was 221, actually 17 points lower than his actual mark. So I don't see a stud outcome for Trevor's story anymore. Will there be enough home runs and still? and bases for him to be. I mean, look, I haven't ranked fifth among second basement for next year. So I certainly see that there's value there.

But yeah, I just, I think, I don't think this stud out comes on the table anymore. All right, let's move through six or ten in the rankings. We've got Tommy Edmund, Andrus Jimenez, Max Muncie, Cotel Marte, and Jorge Polanco. With Max Muncie, Scott, this was another tale of two seasons. First four months, he hit 161, nine homers, 613 OPS. Final two months, 247, 12 homers, 858 OPS.

He was basically Max Muncie. Was dealing with the elbow injury in the offseason. It could just be that it took him all that time to get healthy and get comfortable while playing with that injury. It seems like it would be a pretty reasonable explanation. And then the other two that we haven't talked about, Cotel Marte and Horne Pallonco, just completely hampered by injuries.

Catele-Marty, he still played 137 games, but it just kind of felt like he was never healthy, constantly dealing with hamstring injuries throughout the season. Can you see yourself buying back in on any of those three? Muncie, Cotel-Marté, Jorge Polanco. I think in points leagues, it'll be really easy to buy back in on Muncie. I mean, he's always been better in that format because the plate discipline's so good. The batting average, which can be kind of suspect, it doesn't hurt you in points leagues. So I'd be totally happy with Muncie in that format.

I had a lot of concerns about his elbow heading into the year, him not having it surgically corrected. And those concerns seem justified for the first two-thirds of the season. But not only was the production back those final two months, Muncie's average exit velocity from August 1st on was 92.3 miles per hour. That would have been a career high if he had done that over the course of the season. So I think he proved that his elbow is sound, and I expect him to be much better from start to finish next year.

The others could tell Marte, Jorge Polanco. Did you mention the guy after them? No, he's in the next group of five, but he's... Let's go ahead and mention him because I think it's a similar situation. Yeah, it's Brandon Lau. Yeah. So Marte Palanco, Lao, obviously these were three guys who we thought were borderline studs, coming into the year, and none of them came close to living up to that.

Marte is the one that's most confounding to me because the stat cast numbers still look great. They've kind of always looked great for him. He hits the ball very hard. It seems like the sort of launch angle that should translate to power. And yet since his 32 Homer 2019 season, he's hit a total of, so he's played 272 games. since then and hit a total of 28 home runs. It was obviously not good power production. The upside is apparent to me, and obviously in 2021, another injury plague season, he played only 90 games.

He still delivered a 909 OPS. He hit 318. The power wasn't great, but it was good enough if he's going to hit 318, you know. But just the lack of consistency, even though the underlying numbers say he should be better, it's hard to count on Catele Marte for much. If we get to this point in the draft and I don't have a second baseman yet, okay, shoot for upside, but I don't feel great about it.

I actually think Jorge Polanco, like I see a clearer path to him recovering to his 2021 numbers than Marte, because it looked pretty fluky for him, how he didn't produce more. And I feel like if he hadn't got his season interrupted by injuries, because remember, 2021 played out similarly. Through May, he was basically awful,

and then he just went bananas over the final two-thirds of the season. I feel like if not for those injury interruptions, things would have played out better for Jorge Polanco. Maybe he would have rebound. He still hit 16 home runs and 375 at bat. So, no, a lot of it was just the fact that the batting average was lagging, but he hit the ball as hard as before. His strikeout rate was still solid.

He hits a lot of line drives. It feels like kind of a fluky thing for Polanco and that better health would do a lot for him. The upside for Catelle Marte is higher, but I'm not going to say the downside is better for Jorge Polanco. It's just I feel like he's more likely to reach his upside. I'll put it that way. And the big talking point for Jorge Polanco,

going into last year is how did he produce all of this power all of a sudden? He did it by hitting more fly balls and pulling the ball a ton more than ever before in 2021. Last year, that came back a little bit, but he was still pulling the ball a lot. 49%. That's 43% for his career. So I agree, Scott. I mean, still hit the ball, the same average exit velocity, similar hard hit rates and was still pulling it quite a bit. It seems like everything is there for Jorge Polanco to get back on track.

he can get healthy. And just to put a bow on these three, Cotel Marte, Polanco, Brandon Lau. Yeah, I want to address Lao too because they didn't get a chance to. I think this position is dependent on the health of those three. Right? Like, we're only 11 deep,

and we're already talking about how worried we are about these players. But if they can stay healthy, it's a big if, then they've shown what kind of upside they have in the past. So... I mean, look, if they all bounce

back to something like 2021, this position looks a lot better. Of course, yeah. But it's asking all three of them to do that, that's hard. And if you're just going to, okay, I'm going to draft one of these guys because I like the upside, well, you can't be sure you're going to pick the right one. And then what do you fall back on if it doesn't work out? Yeah. Of course, Brandon Lough hit 39 home runs in 2021.

And everything he showed in his career up to that point made him out to be a big time slugger. but then he hit in 2022 here just eight home runs and 235 at bats now he was dealing with a back injury it came on early he came back and then he didn't hit very well and then ended up back on the aisle with that same back

injury so it's possible he was just plagued by that injury all season long and was never right and so he deserves a complete pass the biggest concern for Lowe for me is that even when he was healthy the rays weren't playing a moment all that regularly, and that's the way they handle things. He's a left-handed

hitter. I just even if he's right, I'm not totally confident in the playing time. All right, let's get to the top 15. We mentioned already, Brandon Lau at 11. At number 12, we have Brandon Drury, followed by Glaver Torres,

John Bertie, and Jake Cronowardt. Bertie is the one we haven't mentioned yet. He led all baseball with 41 steals. He also hit 240 with four home runs. and a 662 OPS and a 93 weighted runs created plus. I think we know who John Bertie is. He's not a very good hitter.

He can seal bases and bunches, which can help in deeper category leagues, but I don't think there's much there, Scott. Yeah, I really don't know where to rank him. I don't want him. I know that. Like, I've never been inclined to take the steel specialist anyway. That's going to be especially true

with the rule of changes taking effect in 2023. and Bertie seems like even though he led the majors and steals by a good margin, he seems like a weaker bet to follow up on that than most stolen base specialists we've seen over the years because he's 33 years old and the Marlins were kind of just backed into a corner playing him every day. Like that's never the goal going into the season

to play John Birdie every day. So versatile that he tends to play a lot, but I don't think that's going to be by design heading into this year either. Where do you end up going in your in your mock if you have that pulled up? Let's see. If there's no appetite for drafting birdie,

then I've overranged him here and I need to correct that. He went in the 14th round of a 15-team league. That was just before Ty France, Ian Hap, Josh Rojas, Brendan Nimmo, Routi Tellez, Oscar Gonzalez.

It sounds like he was drafted pretty high then. Yeah. Okay. We'll see. But I'm open to moving him. I'm going to move him to a point where I don't end up drafting him when all said and done. I think that's fair. Let's move to 16 through 20 in the rankings that starts with DJ LaMahue, Jean Seguara,

Brendan Rogers, Jonathan India, and Jeff McNeil. DJ LaMayhew, another one on this list where it looked like he was bouncing back to not the same player we've seen in the past because he had some truly elite seasons early on with the Yankees here. But he was bouncing back and then boom, injury, sapped it all the way, and now we were back to what do we expect heading into next season? We don't exactly know with DJ LaMayhew. Gene Seguera, I'm a little surprised by this, Frank.

Scott, it seems pretty low for him. He was good when he played 277 batting average, 10 homers, 13 seals in 98 games. He does have a club option for $17 million, so perhaps the Phillies don't pick that up. But he was still really good. And you can't use the age argument, Scott, because he's going to be the same age as Jose Altuve.

Well, I mean, Jose Altuve has shown no signs of decline, I think. Sagar has been pretty stable the last few years, but he obviously hasn't been like he was in his prime. I'm going to guess they don't pick up that option, $17 million. And so that obviously throws his future into doubt. I could be wrong about that. I don't know either, actually.

That's a close one. I've seen some rumors linking Trey Turner to the Phillies, just early rumors, but who knows? Yeah. I mean, he's pretty boring. Oh, you don't like a good batting average with 15 homers and 20 steel, Scott? Come on. I mean, 277.

it's helpful. That's good. It's not. He's just kind of like a little above average at everything, you know? I like Genezigerra. I know. I always like Genezigerra, man.

I took him in this first draft. I mean, if you want to move him ahead of LaMayhew, Cronenworth. Yeah. That's fine. But I just, I feel like those two have more upside than he does. I am kind of, I am worried about LaMayhew, though. I think he and Croninworth are similar in terms of they optomwell.

their swing for an environment that doesn't exist anymore. And so now they're kind of struggling to figure out what they're going to be. It's just CronoWorth's a lot younger. So he has more time to figure that out. And he's not dealing with diminishing skills the way LaMahue might be. And also, the Yankees just introduced Oswald Paraza. They're presumably going to introduce Anthony Volpe at some point next year. And I could just see DJ LaMahue if he's not, if he's,

not doing any better than he has been the last couple years. I could see him. I could see his role being reduced. I agree with that. I saw something on Twitter earlier. That kind of made sense to me. Anthony Rizzo has a player option, which I think he's going to opt out of. And if the Yankees choose not to bring him back, they can just move DJ Lemayhew over to first base full time, which is not very exciting from a Yankee perspective. But the media, the Yankees media is talking about heads needing to roll. And if that's what they ultimately decide to do at first base, I don't think that's going to satisfy anybody.

Don't get me started, Scott. On the Yankees offseason of apparently all the rumors are Aaron Judge is gone, but I guess we'll see. Last couple of names here on the list, Brendan Rogers, 18th overall. He's still young enough where I guess he can progress, but he just kind of feels jaggy at this point, just the guy. 19th is Jonathan India,

20th is Jeff McNeil. India's another one, Scott. He kind of fits into that Brandon Lau, Jorge Polanco mold. I don't know that the upside is as high as those guys, but if he can bounce back

in terms of health, that goes a long way to helping out this position because no matter which way you want to slice it, you look at the numbers from this year, and especially the stat-cast numbers,

I don't know that Jonathan India was ever healthy this year. So I kind of just give him a pass. Yeah, that may be fair and I'm doing that to some degree by ranking him as high as 19th. But

you know, a big difference between him and guys like Hattel Marte and Brandon Lau is that we all really had reason to be skeptical of India's performance because it was you know, not very impressive

underlying stats to back up that rookie of the year performance and, you know, for the stretches he was supposedly healthy this year. He basically did nothing. And especially concerning to me was that he wasn't even getting on base anymore. That was, he wasn't a great hitter in the minors, Jonathan India, but one thing he always did, including in his rookie season, was walk a lot.

If he wasn't even doing that, I don't know. It seems like the floor is awfully low for Jonathan India. But I'd be fine with him as a middle-in-end. field option late. All right. Well, I hope you're wrong because I haven't been the Scott White Dynasty League. I haven't met a Dynasty League too.

So I haven't met a couple actually. So I hope for good things from Jonathan India as well. But it was a very discouraging second season. And, you know, it's just kind of a cross your fingers type of pick for a player with questionable skills as it is. All right.

Well, let's recap the top 20, 1 through 5, Jose Altuve, Marcus Semyon, Ozzie Albies, Jazz Chisholm, and Trevor Story. 6 through 10, Tommy Edmund, Andres Jimenez, Max Muncie, Ctele-Marté, Jorge Polanco, 11 through 15, Brandon Torres, John Burdy, Jay Kronenworth, 16 through 20, DJ Lamehu, Gene Seguera, Brendan Rogers, Jonathan India, and Jeff McNeil. That is for 5x 5-by-5 Roto Leagues, what changes in head-to-head points. Max Muncie, Jay Cronoworth, DJ LeMayhew get a bit of a boost and Louisa Ryaz also jumps inside the top 20.

John Birdie, no surprise there. He falls outside of the top 20. We're going to wrap there for Scott. I have Frank. Thank you all for listening and watching Fantasy Baseball today. We'll be back again on Thursday. Bye-bye.

Bye.