F*ck Buddies: A Sex and Dating Advice Podcast - Episode 161 - Closure Letter Guy

Episode Date: November 1, 2021

It doesn't matter how scathing or witty you think you were, everyone's going to laugh at your letter, dude.  Topics include ghosting expectations, the most genuine laughter is fake laughter, should you stay or should you go, writing a closure letter and why it's a bad idea, chasing the wrong kind of love, valuing your time and effort and a new batch of dating profiles.

I put my trust in you, and then I trust in love. I put my trust in you, I put my trust in love. I put my trust in you, and then I trust in love. I put my trust in you, I put my trust in love. Hello friends, my name is Dave Miller. And I'm Niall Spain. And we're your fuck buddies. We are a dating and sex advice podcast where we take your sticky, sexy situations and turn them into sexy, sticky situations.

Simply put, we answer questions on the topic of sex and dating that we either find online or are sent in by our wonderful listeners, such as yourself. And this episode is the itchy episode because I just shaved my head, didn't have time to shower, and I'm covered in those little hairs that itch you. But also, if you're looking at your phone and you're wondering if you've slipped into some parallel dimension because you just haired an episode by us yesterday and you don't know what's happening, don't worry. You're just one of our exclusive Patreon people who got one yesterday. That's true. At the end of every month, we release a very secret episode called Pillow Talk,

only available for certain tiers of our Patreon. If you want them, and you should, head on over to fbuddiespodcast.com and click the Patreon link, and join one of the tiers that gives you access to Pillow Talk. Yeah, and if you're kind of sad that you missed

yesterday's episode, which we did deal with some fun stuff, including Halloween and yeah, head over. They're all going to be there. So, yeah. And we appreciate the fuck out of it because we love all the support and, and let's us keep doing this.

Yeah. This is the first year that we didn't pay out of pocket to, to host this pad boy, which is incredible and all thanks to you. So thank you very much. We appreciate you. And in order to, to show our appreciation, we're going to answer some questions. Yeah. You want me to start?

Yeah. Get us going. All right. Hmm. You know, I'm going to do this one. This is by ButWhyAmIHere on Reddit. Has anyone reached out to a ghoster and actually gotten a valid and apologetic response? Ask me before I make a fool out of myself. Based on what the title says, I, 22-year-old female, had a very, very special date with 22-year-old male. It was very sweet. There was no awkward small talk.

We soon figured out our values, et cetera, aligned perfectly. Never really happened to me before where I made such an intense emotional connection on the first date, and I've been thinking about them since. Now, the problem is he asked me for my number, we didn't really exchange numbers before we met, and he has yet to text me there. It's been days. Edit, I don't have his number, he only has mine. That's why I'm expecting him to hit me up and start a line so I can get his number too. Wasn't much of a texter to begin with, which he let me know. We actually talked on the phone for hours at some point before the date. Based on what he told me, I know he's going through shit, and it's very possible he just can't talk't talk i want to text him you good crying

emoji crying emoji but then this is probably also bs because who the fuck can't spare a text also i've been on the online dating game long enough to know this is exactly how i treat people i'm not interested in maybe this is karmic retribution. Lol. Help, friends. Okay. Like, I'm annoyed. I was sympathetic to the cause and the case up until the point where she was like, I do this all the time. Yeah. Like, okay, if this is what you think is an appropriate way to deal with people that you're not attracted to, then you can't turn around and be like, how is this happening to me? Because, like, you yourself this happening to me? Because like you, you yourself think that this is okay.

And if you don't think that it's okay, then why are you doing it? Yeah, exactly. You're either admitting that you're a shitty person and this is a shitty thing to do to someone, or you're saying, Hey,

this is a totally fair thing to do, but I only care that it's not fair because it's happening to me, which are, are are you know pretty much the flip side of the same coin of like you being kind of a shitty person that's the thing either way it sucks because you're changing the situation that you're in so either you think it's fine normally but it's not fine when someone does it to you or you don't think it's fine and you do it anyway yeah um now that being said there's a like you said a thousand different reasons why this person hasn't texted you maybe you guys had a couple too many drinks and put the wrong number in and he has texted you but i'm not i'm not gonna sit here

and pretend the other possibility is the fact that you had a very special magical first date could be maybe you were really intense and this dude was like kind of creeped out by that since you seem to like have this fairy tale idea of what this date was like and it could have just been like a date to this dude well that's the important thing it's like you guys didn't both have a very very special emotional like blah blah you did right so you can't like be like wow it's crazy he hasn't missed me back after we both had this thing it's like for all you know he had a shitty time you know what i mean like you can't speak for somebody else so it's like just because you had an incredible time doesn't mean they have but like let's get to what I think is a very important part of this. He has her number.

She doesn't have his. Right? But they also have been chatting online and have been on the phone for hours together. So either she could get his number by looking at her call logs or they have other ways of contacting each other. At which point it's like, it's not just on them. Yeah. Like, you could clearly contact each other at which point it's like it's not just on them yeah like yeah surely you're clearly contact each other some way even if like you don't have caller id or they have a block number you could just like if you wanted to you guys have have the history of like talking on the phone which is a wild thing to do in modern dating in my opinion but you've done it so call

them if you really want to just check in on him, call them. Yeah. That's the thing. It's like, and I think I'd love to find it. Cause I went through the comments because it was just wild. And I was like, this is confusing. Like, how is it that like, you don't have their number, but they have yours, but you guys also talked. And then they were like, Oh, I think the ball's in his court because I gave him my number. So, you know, so it's just a principal thing at this point exactly and i also apparently it's been two days which is not that long at all i mean technically they're correct it has been days yeah exactly now but two days versus seven days very different yeah yeah for sure i mean i think hopefully it's not the like

oh you gotta wait a certain amount of time like i think that i i really hope we've put that behind us because it's in in the age of instant uh communication the idea of being like i gotta wait two two days before we talk to each other like that's if someone doesn't talk to me after two days after a date i'm like okay cool you're not interested and i am moving on yeah well i think like one just fucking reach out yourself like you're a grown-ass woman there's no reason for you to just sit here and fret but also to the entire title of this question which i'm going to read again has anyone reached out to a ghoster and gotten a valid and apologetic response? So, like, that's what she's looking for in this situation. Like, she's not looking for anything other than for this guy to, like, be, I guess, cowed into an apology.

And that's a wild thing to want out of this situation, especially when you are also a person that goes people, which we've talked about before. It's OK. I would love to know if she's ever given a valid or apologetic response to someone that she's ghosted. I'm going to guess no. Yeah, this is it's this is like dating entitlement of people who only like have no empathy and have no means of sort of like walking in anyone else's shoes or seeing another point of view it is like the world's focuses on me and everything revolves around me and when an injustice happens to me it is of the highest severity and i really don't know how the world can keep turning when this has happened to me. Yeah. And it's tiring.

And, you know, I hope this guy, you know, this might sound mean and cruel, but maybe this guy's dodging a bull by not texting you back because you seem like a lot. Super arrogant and entitled and hypocritical and like oblivious. And like,

none of those things are good good combination or good in isolation. You should be able to put yourself in someone else's shoes. Realize that things sometimes don't go your way. Realize that just because you had a great time doesn't mean someone had an equally good time. You should be able to throw all this bullshit. Well, it's in his court because I gave

him my number. Reach out. Be chill. Don't attack this person. If like if they don't want to go further fuck it move on you know like that's it's as simple as that there's also that like weird sort of vague indication that like maybe she cares about how he's doing which is like you good and it's like if you're actually genuinely concerned about this person's well-being reach out i'm sure they would appreciate it for whatever reason if they're again if they're not interested maybe they are ghosting you and at that point it sucks happens to everyone you do it all the time so you're gonna

have to move on but like if you are and this is something that we've talked about in the past i believe we had a very similar question where it's like if you are invested in their well-being make your check-in about their well-being and not about getting another date or moving your relationship forward just be like hey you know you can even say had a great date the other day really enjoyed our time i know you're going through a lot i just wanted to check and see how you're doing hope you're doing all right if you need to talk hit me up 100 also like for me if i just got you good three question marks like that wouldn't seem like oh are you okay or like how are you doing it would seem like a what what the fuck yeah you know it would

seem like a why haven't you texted me yeah exactly and even the fact that oh i know he's going through shit and it's possibly can't talk it's like one sentence and then they're immediately like it's who the fuck can't spare text it's like like you know this or you don't you care that he's going through shit or you don't you know what i mean i love how that's mentioned very briefly and immediately tossed aside um so maybe try giving a shit yeah maybe that's why the date didn't go well you're too busy thinking about what a great time you were having and how that must translate into what a great time he's having that it probably wasn't a great time. Yeah. This is a mean way to start, but I'm not feeling your vibe.

No, I feel like there's red flags everywhere. And honestly, the comments don't go much better. Honestly, I almost never read the comments for these questions because I know they're going to be garbage. And I've read a few comments today on the questions that I'm bringing and man, they suck. Like I get, I understand now why we have a show and why I feel like we will have a show for as long as we want to do it. Because the advice that people give to each other from like a level of authority is categorically terrible. It is terrible it is it is really really really bad that gives me a really good segue to just throw something in because it wasn't enough

to bring as a full question but there was this person like crowing about how they did really well after they started reading this like dating advice person or this sorry this like pickup artist's uh book and one of the things that they said was to delay laughter when you're talking to a girl because if you laugh when they say something funny it doesn't seem genuine but if you like pause for a few seconds think you're like really thinking about it and you're deep and then you laugh i'm like that's the worst shit i've ever heard man i would be so unnerved so i was actually i had someone like that at my bar the other day where everything seemed to take like an extra i'm almost positive she was high as fuck and didn't realize that she was going to be as high as

she was when she went out in public because she went out by herself um and i think it was like she probably got the munchies because she ordered a bunch herself um and i think it was like she probably got the munchies because she ordered a bunch of like you know junkie fried pub food but i think that like it hit her and that like that paranoia of like oh no everyone knows i'm fucking high as hell which it's legal here we don't give a shit no one cares um but i think it was freaking her out so like everything she said had like there was a real deliberation on everything she was saying and it was the same thing when i talked to her she would like stare at me and sort of like mouth the words that i just said back to me and then she would answer and if someone did that to me

on a date especially with laughter because if you stifle laughter it's not like you can press pause on the laugh track and then hit play and then have like the genuine reaction you would then have to pretend to laugh that's the thing even if you actually found it funny if you're actively not laughing and then laughing you're literally fake laughing at everything yeah yeah it's like oh it won't seem genuine if you actually genuinely laugh no no please fake laugh that's the genuine like it blows my mind what do people do it also would take me so much effort and so much like concentration it would be like playing like you know gears of war when you fucking like have the active reload yeah but sometimes you're paying too much attention to that you don't actually know what's going on i don't

know i feel like i would be taken out of the moment every, because I'd be like, oh shit, is she about to say something funny? Like I'd have to be like, oh, ready. And then when she'd say that, I'd be like, okay, take a beat. Look to the side, I guess. I don't know, count to two. I don't know what the fuck you're supposed to do, but that would be such an ordeal and such a process.

I wouldn't be listening to anything. I wouldn't be doing anything. And then I'd laugh and they'd hate it. They'd hate the whole thing. It also would kill the conversation because like they'd say something funny and either stop and wait for you to a respond b laugh and like after the pause maybe they just say something else and then you'd have to interrupt them by laughing or be something funny in the process of a sentence at which point you're still interrupting. It's just,

it's absolute insanity. And Hey, bit of advice. Don't do it. Also the, like there's, there's so many games and improv games and stuff of like, you have to keep a stone face while someone tries to make you laugh.

Things are infinitely funnier when you're not trying to laugh. Like, have you ever been at like, like one of the big examples is on film. There's a thing called a room tone where you all stand silently in the room and capture just like the ambient noise should you need to you know cut a line or mask a sound that happens it's just like an ambient tone of the room and inevitably someone says something or something happens or someone looks at someone and you're all trying desperately yeah not to fucking laugh and it's the same thing with like school assemblies

or a funeral sometimes yeah it's like you know not that they're funny or good or anything but it's like you know oh my god i can't laugh and like someone gives you an eye and you're like oh fuck yeah like old uncle jerry just rips a fucking wet one. And like you and your buddy are like, oh, oh, we can't laugh right now because, you know, his wife is currently in tears at the front telling the speech, you know, giving the eulogy. But like, God damn, Jerry. Jerry just tore his pants off. So, yeah, this is bad advice. I feel like any time any sort of pickup artist tells you to do something it's probably a bad idea a hundred percent but like people literally buy these books apparently they

go to fucking courses they make gigantic posts about it on seduction where everyone's like oh shit i'm gonna do that that's just like no just do not yeah i can't imagine like i consider myself a fairly a fairly amusing person, especially in like everyday conversation. I think I'm, I'm pretty witty and quick with a joke. I can't imagine being on a date where someone is actively trying to make me not feel that way.

But like they're actively trying to make you feel that way. Like that's the point. The point is to be like, Oh my God, I am taking time to consider what you're saying so when i laugh it's genuine which is ironic i feel like maybe the advice that like should have started this is like don't just laugh all the time or at things you don't get because maybe that's the point is like you know if you're just like ah and they're like that wasn't

funny or like i don't think he gets it yeah that's gonna kill the mood but you know, if you're just like, ah, and they're like, that wasn't funny. Or like, I don't think he gets it. Yeah, that's going to kill the mood. But you know what also is going to kill the mood? You like pausing awkwardly and then throwing fake laughter in their face. And presumably if you found it funny, if you actually found it funny, stifling a laugh? Yeah. To then release a more boisterous. There's a scene in Final Fantasy 10 in which one of the main characters is trying to teach the other character to laugh or so i don't know but it is the english like dubbing of it is

some of the worst voice acting that's ever happened and that's how i imagine if you don't know what i'm talking about go and search final fantasy 10 titus laugh and that is what i imagine is happening on this person's date it's probably exactly what is happening all right hit me um this is sean 2020 fans lee how do i deal with a woman who wants me to stick around but doesn't want to commit to me this girl i'm talking about male or he's 22 and she's 37 this girl i'm talking about, she wants me to be with her. She wants me to stick around. But all the same, she keeps sleeping with other guys.

I told her how I feel about her and how I feel about the situation, but she won't stop. But she expects me to stick around and put up with her sleeping with other guys until she's ready to commit. That's not what I'm up for. But she insists on me staying if I don't talk to her or block her. She says she's going to cry about it and tries to make me feel like crap about it how do i deal with this because it's starting to feel like i'm stuck that was all one sentence there's no punctuation so i'm sorry if that was a bit rocky it's rocky like anyway even if it was perfectly you know hit all the grammar notes it

should have uh dude get the fuck out you're saying oh i'm trying to talk to someone and they're just being like no fuck you i don't give a fuck but you'll make me sad if you leave like cool that's they they reaped what they sowed you know i mean you're sad right now why does your sadness less important than theirs yeah if someone 15 years older than you just like refuses to like it sounds like she's just kind of abusing you essentially well she is yeah i mean so there's i think there's two sides to the story one she's 100 within her right to be like i really like you and i would like to keep seeing you but i do also i'm also going to be seeing other people yes 100 that's totally fine yeah like in in no way was i saying oh my god how is she not dating you you asked and she can't say no like that is

definitely not it um and then you were like oh hey by the way i'm not comfortable with that i would like to see you exclusively at that point that's where you guys make the decision of being like she says no sorry i don't want to see you exclusively i would love to keep seeing you if that's an option but i understand like if this isn't going to work for you and then you say okay cool that's not going to work for me and you part your separate ways the like second part of that transaction or that discussion seems to just go fucking so off the rails where neither of you want to like it didn't happen like where he was like oh i want to date you and she's like no i i'm gonna keep sleeping with guys but like i

don't want you to go and then he's like damn she just keeps doing it it's like but you talked about it yeah she said she's not going to so why are you still here because like at a certain point that just kind of becomes your problem like she's being straight up and she's doing what she wants to do right obviously the whole if you leave i'll get sad and cry thing which like who cares like you know that's whatever yeah it's it's super manipulative and yeah it's kind of like ass lady but at the same time now i was right it's like you also aren't happy so what you know you have to make your choice of being like cool am i gonna stay unhappy because i don't want this potentially fake you

know she could just be bluffing um and hey let me tell you what chances are she is if she's got like this myriad of men that she gets to sleep with she's probably not gonna be too upset that you go your own way yeah and that's the thing it's it's just like this it's almost like if this was a like a different situation it's like oh i want to keep dating my girlfriend but she says we're breaking up it's like okay but like that that's the situation so it's like you're out of that situation now like in a way you know it's on you to get out of there she's told you where you're at. You are clearly unhappy with it. I don't understand what you're coming to us about this for.

There's no answer here other than leave. For the most part, most relationships and most decisions and milestones and stuff like that are a collaborative effort. There are two that aren't. When someone wants to start a relationship and when someone wants to end a relationship. At that point in time, those are individual actions. And if you guys want to individually choose to become exclusive or enter in a relationship of any sort, great, cool. If one person does not want to do this, that's it. Yeah.

Like there is. And the same thing with like breaking up. If someone wants to end a relationship, that's their choice. And that's an individual choice that they get to make make they don't have to get your permission to do it exactly so this person doesn't want a relationship you are unhappy with what they do want which they are well within the right to do so the options are suffer or leave yeah it's really that cut and dry and it's rare in in the world of dating and sex and relationships that there is kind of a cut and dried answer. But I feel like in this situation, it's either like you continue to deal with this or you don't.

Also, like the best part is she's not like, yeah, she is emotionally manipulating you and she's being a bit like whatever. But it's also not dramatic. It's not like, I can't live if you leave me. It's like, oh, I'll be sad. It's like, OK, cool. Like you. She has two choices here. You have two choices here.

And those choices are change your stance on what you're doing or get out of it. There's no half and half. Although there shouldn't be, but there fucking is right now. Yeah. So just like you're sad. So why are you worried about her maybe potentially being sad in the future? You're currently sad. Stop being sad.

Get out of there. Okay. I feel like we're on a particular thread today. So this is by Danny Zuko 5000. Damn. We got Danny Zooks? Sorry. Finally wrote a closure letter to girl I was seeing. In the beginning,

it was so full of life and energetic. Text within five minutes, cheerful vibes. Then after a week, it slowly died down and it was as if I had to beg her every time.

Every time I'd suggest something to do, she'd always have something to do without offering an alternative sideways looking face. This girl has issues I can overlook,

but the main one is communication. I hate how she takes so damn long to reply. hour, four hours later, like it's impossible for a person to not see the message notification. Anywho, after receiving the last part of the gift she got me, at first she was elated to give it to me and would do whatever it takes to make sure I get it. I had to basically remind her repeatedly for it,

and decided I can't try and fight for this girl's attention anymore. It's been so detrimental to my mental health. Packed all her gifts in a bag and wrote a closure letter plan to drop it off at her house tomorrow wait we don't even get to hear what's in the closure letter no god damn man that's what i was excited for i won't give a shit about any other stuff i know what a fucking tease but like well it's not really a question but at the same time what do you think so i mean i i think like the advice we pretty much this is the the part of the the like where someone has taken our advice of being like you need to leave you know what i mean and i think i think he's making the

right choice if someone if communication ends up becoming a chore with someone i think there's probably some issues on his end of being like taking an hour to respond to me is unreasonable like fuck off that's an unrealistic expectation and and we can examine that but at the end of the day like if you aren't feeling fulfilled in a relationship and you find it's difficult to plan anything with them if they don't want to see you and and this all like the spark is gone then yeah move on if you want to write a closure letter as long as it's not fucking like abusive or mean or threatening sure go for it it's they're gonna laugh at it like i can almost guarantee you that they're gonna be like look at this with their friends and they're all going to have a big laugh about it and that might suck to think about but that's the reality of it because

i can almost guarantee you someone wrote me a closure letter unless it was incredibly scathing i would probably share it with my friends yeah and that's what i kind of wanted to bring up is like i don't think the closure letter is a good call you know what I mean and so for context in the comments he does someone was like hey she'll probably just laugh and throw it away and he was like I hope it is something that doesn't happen I hoped

the letter will cause her anger and regret etc so okay it's not even like a therapeutic thing I think this is a last ditch effort which this isn't a closure this is a spite letter it's not even like a therapeutic thing i think this is a last-ditch effort which this isn't a closure this is a spite letter exactly it's either a spite letter or an ill-conceived like get back together letter and neither of which i think is a good call like if you find it therapeutic to write this closure letter write it down fucking burn it and then say like hey i

don't think this really should continue and like if she asks why just be like i don't know i feel like there's not enough communication it feels like the spark has died and like hey maybe she's busy maybe there's some shit going on and then at least that gives her a chance to put her two cents in but it's also possible it's just like okay bye and like it sucks but at least you're kind of like actually ending things. Yeah. And we've talked about how closure is kind of a manufactured idea and something that you kind of have to get on your own most of the time. And like I said, if writing down a letter and spewing your thoughts out into actual tangible form is therapeutic for you helps you uh sort of regain some of the mental health ground that you lost during this relationship by all means go for it but like now

also suggested burning it i think is a much more symbolic and maybe a more emotional experience than because like nine times out of ten they're're either not going to read it or they're going to find it fucking hilarious. And that like whatever you think is going to happen with it probably isn't going to happen with it. So you might as well hold sort of a ceremony. Tell yourself being like with this flame, I release it. And you know what I mean? Like, boom. It's not spooky season anymore, Dane.

No more rituals. It doesn't matter. Every season is spooky season. But yeah, like, you know. No more rituals. It doesn't matter. Every season is spooky season. But yeah, you know what's done. You're not happy. You're at least pretending like you're doing the right thing. But it seems in the comments you are not in fact. So do end it.

Don't bother with the letter. Because again, I think you're just trying to get a needle in. And it's either just going to make shit really bad between you guys or give her like ammunition to you know laugh at you or or whatever and like that probably won't be good for your mental health so this is kind of like being like i want closure but then also bursting and being like and another thing it's yeah exactly like like if you want closure close the door you don't get to fucking close the door and then slide a letter underneath that just says fuck you well that's yeah it's like you're on a night out

and like you and someone are like I don't know getting into it and you're like you know what I don't want to fight but then you walk back off while giving them the finger I'm out I'm out I'm not involved I'm just like fuck you it's like hmm I say don't do this just end it for your own mental

health give yourself some space and you know if at all possible ending things nicely is is worth it because these people don't cease to exist you will see them out and about presumably you'll bump into them five years down the line and it's like being able to bump into someone to be like oh we saw each other years ago it was nice like how have you been is much better than being like yeah being at a bar and be like oh hey guys guys guys that's the closure letter guy because look the second you see the entire table look over at you and get that shit eating grin you know they read it you know they saw your poem they've seen it you're angsty also i'm guessing these people are 15 um yeah probably because they were like after a week it died down it's like after a week all right hit me um this come on in a while

it's 161 161 episodes we're better than that although apparently i'm not better at wrangling my fucking cat what do you know you're actually getting worse i really am he was so good for a while now he's just like hey fuck this shit it was like 80 episodes where he just was uninterested now he's just like this is money he knows there's money now and he's like i gotta get a cut of this baby we don't even have enough for us let alone you i gotta get a slice of this cheddar. If you're a new listener, Oliver's my cat. Oliver's the man that lives in Dane's pipes. This is from

Stranger Things 11. I find guys who ignore me attractive. I just recently noticed that there are guys who keep on chatting to me who are clingy, update me, but I don't like them i just really find them annoying once they do that i suddenly become uninterested while there are some guys who don't always talk to me ignore me most of the time and i'm more attracted to them it's

a serious problem i know am i the only one oh i've got a question that's basically this but from the flip side okay how about i read it out because i feel like we're just gonna be talking about the same issue yeah yeah why not this is yami yugi 23 why does it seem like to get the girl you wanna you want you have to ignore her well yeah like what i just like you saying yami yugi and i really want to say yeah there was this girl i liked a lot like easily the biggest crush i've ever had i always knew from the beginning just observing her she was always chased slash seem more interested in guys who ignore her or don't give her attention. She rings guys' phones who ignore her and begs for their attention. She'll say stuff like, why don't you ever contact me first, et cetera. You don't care about me, et cetera. Or in the

library, there's this one guy who never talks to her. She always chases him. She's always the one talks to him first. I thought about pulling and pushing with her, but she opened up to me about depression and suicidal thoughts. So I decided to leave it. Plus I don't want someone I'm not to want to be someone I'm not and play these childish games, et cetera. Anyway, we did end up doing a lot of activities together. She would say romantic stuff to me, but she ended up leading me on due to all her insecurities and chose another guy over me. Guy just ignores her and even told her in public when they were in a group, not to speak to him because he don't want people to think they're dating. Despite all that, she's still all over him and always chase him and even wants to switch her degree to his degree which is crazy

considering this is the last year all the girls who wanted to date me have always been girls which i put the least effort in and ignore for girls i'm interested in i can never ever get the girl i want do i have to start pulling and pushing with girls i like how should i approach the next girl i like hey you know what the crazy thing is i thought you were in high school degree i know i was like damn this kid's 15 as well um although i think i think this guy is i think he's revealed some pearls of knowledge probably inadvertently but things like the fact that she talked about depression and suicide and has mental health concerns i think that this is a a pretty common thing for people who would benefit greatly from professional help from therapy to chase after people who it's i can't remember the name of it but like to go after

people specifically that they know will kind of mistreat them and abuse them. It's, it's like behavior repetition or something like that of, of usually like they have someone in there, usually a parent or a, you know, a guardian figure who abused them as a child.

And like, that's how they think love is shown. Yeah. And, and that's what they look for. Love to be just uh you know uh displayed later on in life so i it sounds to me like there is a myriad of issues that you need to unpack and come to terms with and i think that this sort of like chasing after people that treat me poorly

is usually a pretty good indication that it is time for therapy, friends. Yeah. Well, let's be fair. Someone who ignores you, that's someone mistreating you, like flat out. You know what I mean? I could understand if you're sick of people who are overbearing and won't stop texting you and all that shit, but the opposite of that isn't, or the good side of that isn't, oh, this person, when I reach out, pretends I don't exist. That's shitty. If someone just messages you the appropriate amount for you, that's a very different situation. So we're not talking about that. We're talking about being ignored and being mistreated, which again, mistreated, not a good thing. And you need to

examine why, why you feel that way, because it isn't good, and it's not going to lead to, like, a secret good relationship, you know what I mean? It's not like, oh, there's just all these red flags and struggles and hurdles, but then eventually it's just magically good. These are signs of other things that will just make you even more sad. Well, to quote a shitty, you know, Facebook idi idiom i'm sure it comes from somewhere more profound but like people chase the love that they think they deserve so a lot of people with damn facebook i know damn zuckerberg damn suck he doesn't we brought him on for this

this conversation um but like people who have this sort of rock bottom self-esteem or very low opinion of themselves think that like this is the only way they will get love or this is the love that they deserve and to be told something as terrible as hey don't talk to me while we're around people so people don't know that we're dating and think that like yeah this, this is it. Yeah, let's just throw away my degree for this, man. Nailed it. Like that's heartbreaking. Don't do that to yourself. There's absolutely no reason why you would want

to be with someone who treats you poorly. And if any of this resonates with you, if you're listening to this and you're like, ah, damn, I do kind of do this. I really, really urge you to go talk to someone try to find i know therapy can be expensive but a lot of places are now offering uh cost effective treatment and sessions and stuff like that there's also a lot of like online exactly stuff especially like as a result of the pandemic which can often be cheaper and at the very least is like really easily accessible. So it's like, you don't have to go out, you don't

have to commit all this time, like traveling and finding a place and blah, blah, blah. You can just, you know, do it from your couch, which kind of adds to, or takes away from like the fear of it as well, I think a little bit, cause you can do it somewhere you're comfortable. Right. But yeah, like it's worth the talk because like, I'm you know if not emotionally then logically that you you deserve better all right no one deserves to be mistreated um so just try try to avoid situations like that you know because you do deserve better 100 and it's it's something that i hope they're like some pretty key concepts that i think we stress a lot in this show.

And one of them is communication is King. Like almost every problem can be solved with communication. And the other one is you are worth probably more than you think. And you are, you are worthy of, of excellent love and respectful love and consensual love. Like those are things that aren't earned. Those are things that are just inherent.

Fucking baseline. Yeah. If you are a human being, and regardless of your trauma or the damage that you've accumulated over your life, it doesn't make you any less worthy or deserving of love that is respectful and treats you well. If, and, and if, like I said, if any of this resonates, if, if any of these things sounds like, oh damn, I kind of needed to hear that. I really, really, really urge you to seek out

professional help because I know so many people who, especially during the pandemic of people who took that leap and started talking to a counselor or a therapist and have been like, fuck me, why did I do this sooner? And even if you don't, like there's, there's no harm in, in engaging in therapy, even if you don't necessarily think you need it. I know this is kind of a tangent, but self-help is, you know, that's the category we're under in iTunes. So we might as well do a little bit of it.

Take care of yourself. Love yourself. And if you need a little help getting to the point where you can, that's okay. Yeah, I feel like thankfully we've come a long way from, you know, therapy or a therapist being like looked down on. Like practically, you know, a large number of people i know have seen one or are currently seeing one and like they're not ashamed i'm not ashamed of them you know what i mean like i don't see any issues here so you know don't don't fall into that trap of feeling like embarrassed or that you're lesser or anything like that because that's just such an old-fashioned

idea that i think we're all past or we should all be and we are getting past nothing wrong with it i i swell with pride when someone mentions that they've started counseling or therapy because i'm like great because this probably means that you're going to start living a better life this probably means that you're going to start thinking higher of yourself and because because I adore you and I want you to adore you so like I get so excited and I think to build on what Nile

just said I think anyone who does give you shit for going to therapy is a pretty good indication that like maybe that's a good place to start you know what I mean like maybe that's a good place to start to start you know cutting some of the fat off you know what I mean because maybe that's a good place to start to start you know calling cutting some of the fat off yeah if you have anyone friend that would say that to you they're not your fucking friend yeah any anyone who's actively being like oh you want to better yourself

oh you want to get your mental health right like fuck that person i promise you they are not adding anything to your life if they are against you taking steps towards making yourself feel better yeah okay this one fits pretty well on everything we've been talking about i think this is my key mochi is it okay if i don't respond to date cancellation i'm a male and this girl just canceled our date last minute because she's tired from work well not really last minute the date is tomorrow but then again i feel somehow betrayed and disrespected in some ways hard to describe. To give you context, we've been texting for months and flirt with each other. At the initial stage of getting to know her, I did once ask her out, but she told me she's anxious meeting new people for the time. So I thought, yeah, okay, maybe it's

too early. Skip forward months later, I asked her again and she said, yes, finally. Took some time to get confirmation for her, like time and venue, but eventually we settled it. Now this happens. I was really, really looking forward to this this when i received her message saying she wants to cancel without asking me if i'd like to reschedule or not i've all kinds of emotions especially upset followed by embarrassed this is depressing um i get it and if like you're at the end of your rope as we talked about before it's like there's no harm in being like well i've put in the effort i we've we've chatted for a very long time i asked you out i made the effort to plan the date pick the time pick the place and uh you know a day before you want to cancel but then haven't like i don't know if they apologized who knows but like to to not say like hey let's reschedule next week or i would like to i'm really sorry sorry, we'll figure out another time.

To just be like, I don't want to do it because I'm going to be tired tomorrow, which is a pretty bold statement. Then, yeah, there's no harm in just being like, yeah, I'm done. And you don't have to declare it. You don't have to send her a closure letter. You can just say, in your own mind, be like, all right. There's no rule saying you have to reply, right? If you don't feel like it, don't. You know what I mean?

If it would make you sadder to reply or if you don't think you could reply in a kind manner, there's nothing wrong with just cutting them off. Like, fuck it. If they're not putting the time and effort into you, don't do it back. Yeah, 100%. And it's it's very very easy it's very very simple and this is like one of the few times where i think ghosting is appropriate and like if if they don't reach out to you then you haven't wasted your time if that makes sense and if they do reach out to you don't fall into the same patterns let them

take the wheel then you can be like if they you, if they do reach out after you don't reply and they want to go on a date, you can be like, okay, cool. I'll let you figure it out. You know, you, you have a busy schedule. Let me know when and where and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Leave the ball in their court. And if they're unable to handle that, fuck it because they're clearly unable to handle you trying to take them out. So I wouldn't fall back into the same patterns so cut them off and if they do approach you leave the stuff in their court and that's the advice i'll give you you know don't because some people really like to string people along and they just kind of like feel nice having that attention kind of played towards them so and a lot of people

like to hedge their bets of being like i'm gonna i'm gonna book myself like there's a good chance that like maybe she won't be tired tomorrow maybe she's got a quote unquote better date or you know something something more quote unquote interesting came up and like i know there's people who do that too so it could like we you could just be saving a shit ton of time and you know emotional distress doing it and the thing is it doesn't matter if there's a like what the reason is really it's like even if they are legitimately going through something it's like it's still not going to work out right yeah like if they cannot give you the time that you're looking for you know what i

mean then that's it really you know yes you're not getting what you want out of this so you know save yourself the effort and move on one of the most important things the pandemic taught me was like the value of personal time or my free time because i had so much of it and i found things that i really enjoyed doing and like a lot of it was like solitude stuff because that's all we could really do um but once things started opening up again we could start seeing people and going places and doing things i was very excited to see a bunch of people that i had been talking to during the pandemic being like i miss hanging out with you and then i would try to hang out with them

and like i knew it was going to happen of like everyone says they want to oh yeah let's grab drinks let's grab drinks blah blah blah but i would put in some effort to let people like i knew it was gonna happen of like everyone says they want to oh yeah let's grab drinks let's grab drinks blah blah blah but i would put in some effort to let people like i that i really wanted to see and it was like cancellation last minute oops oops oops really sorry really sorry really sorry and then it's just like i once you stop taking the initiative and then all of a sudden it's like they don't there's nothing then it's like okay cool, okay, cool. I'm, I'm not going to put in this, like, I'm going to redirect my energy to the people. Like I'm taking time out of seeing my friends to make time to see you. And if you're not going to reciprocate that same sort of commitment, then I'm not, I'm not going to keep giving up days that I could be seeing my friends.

And it, it's the same for dating and friendship. So like, if, if you're not getting that commitment back, then move on. There, there are other people to fill your time with and people that will be appreciative of that time.

100%. Ready to do some tinders? Yeah, let's do it. At the end of the show, we like to peruse online dating platforms, such as tinge, bumble,

bumble, bumble. Did you say tinge and bumble? Yeah. Good job. You nailed it. This is the Walmart version of dating apps. These are the off brand.

There's plenty of beef. Ta honey beef. That's the a Tinder hinge and bumble are the platforms we usually pull from. And we peruse their profiles. We figure out what works and what doesn't work in an effort to make your online dating experience a little more exciting yes this is jai my life revolves around fitness and designing can make you a hobby too if you act right i like middle eastern and south asians tall tan brown man only upside down smiley face yes i have a type if i'm too intimidating don't bother wasting your time

because a man with confidence is very attractive i'm not crazy about i understand that people like what they like i'm not crazy about broadcasting it you're on a platform in which you get to pretty much swipe through a meat catalog if you only if you're like if you're only into that type of person those are the only people you'll be swiping on but also like it's fucking weirdly racist too you know what i mean oh yeah the the like fetishization and just like yeah the other one of that's cool you know um and like the weirdly specific racial shit it's like you know if you for some reason feel that way keep it to your fucking self that's what i mean as you shouldn't feel that way really but whatever but like if you do have like if i was only sort of like attracted

to blondes i wouldn't be swiping on brunettes you know i mean i wouldn't be saying yes to brunettes therefore i wouldn't be matching with them therefore it is a moot point to bring up yeah the best part about dating apps is that like it's a two-way street you know what i mean people don't just get to bombard you um so you can just filter out the ones that don't meet your fucking whatevers and you don't have to be weirdly shitty although hey thank you for the red flags because now we know yeah no thank you now this also if i'm too intimidating it's a weird it's just a weird energy to be throwing out there and then then a man with confidence is very attractive. No shit. Really? Never heard that

before. You just sound so toxic. It sounds like this is all code for other toxic behaviors you like. It's just a one. Yeah, we can give it a one as well. This is Emma. Very interested in mean gossip about your coworkers.

Is that it? That's it. It's like a nine out of 10. I like it. I think my Tinder knows exactly what I use it for because a lot of the profiles it shows me are literally like one line things like that. One line zingers. Yeah.

Yeah. I also think it's fucking great. So I'm going to give it a nine as well. Yeah. It's just, it's like unexpected and funny. Also mean gossip, not just gossip.

Yeah. That's funny. This is Leanne. Low key extrovert looking to be fed a fork and knife emoji. List of things I bought this year that I literally used one time. Road bike, stand up paddleboard fishing license question mark question mark question mark question mark question mark

question mark question mark things i should have bought bug spray okay um i'm gonna give this like a six because it is funny and like you get a sense that they're outdoorsy but not really they're outdoorsy and maybe a little spacey but like i find it like very charming because it's actually quite funny but like it's unlike any other like it's not like she looked at a fucking like eight funny profiles and was like i'm gonna copy this and change it like it seems very much their own and it's also kind of like self-deprecating in a sense which i appreciate it's like a nine for me see the thing that kind of throws me off is looking to get fed because i'm like are you just one of

those people who goes on dates to get free meals yeah that's fair i guess so i'm i'm a little iffy on it which is why i'm saying six because like i'd say yes but i'd be hesitant honestly i was just like i like food and just glossed over that um this is britney uh she has her twitter as like the first thing on her profile which is always interesting um she says if you have a baby mama don't swipe right unless she's dead if you're looking to fuck swipe left that it that's it uh That's a zero. Yeah. She's dead.

Jesus Christ. Right. It's like, I really like, I don't care if you have a kid, but their mother better not be alive. It's such a weird energy. It's absolutely unforgivable.

That's a zero Brittany. Yeah. Imagine like she was dead. Like that would be probably a pretty traumatic thing to just have thrown in your face on a random tinder profile like cool while you're like crying you're like at least i can swipe right oh no wait i wanna fuck oh uh and this is my last one this is marie the first thing you'll notice is there's two different pictures of two different people uh we are in toronto for just one night and we want to go for drinks with you and your friend we are two brunette mares but no horse guys allowed please be a little weird and

not in the creepy way thanks and let's have a good night wait why did you refer to yourselves as horses i don't know is that some slang I'm missing? Is that some sex slang? Are horse, like, is horse guys a sex slang? Or is it just guys who like horses? Because I agree. I don't know. I don't like any of it. It unsettles me so much.

I would have said it was just a, you know, middle of the road. Cool. You know, two ladies looking to have some fun with people in a city they're in. But, like the the merit like one the fact that like we know you're brunette we can see a picture of you it's very strange when people are like brunette yeah yeah they got a lot of hair it's not it's not like it's ever it's hidden it's it's very much there it's done up quite nicely yeah i don't i don't know there's something about this that makes me think either they're going to murder people or there's

code that I'm missing. Yeah. Very heavily like you know this is some kind of like underground freaky shit. I don't know. Or it's like a CIA activation. I don't know. Yeah like a 70s like handkerchief or like bandana thing

from like the gay community where like different colors meant different things. Yeah. I'm quite concerned that if I said yes to this i would be misconstruing everything so it's gonna be a zero i think i won i'll no i'll give it a two because it's better than the other two yeah i think i'm gonna live in that that world as well uh this is alia she's 18 hi i'm alia angel emoji i know i look 12 don't mind me 5'4 95 pounds smiley face i love concerts and i think this is pertinent we usually don't talk about pictures but all of their pictures were them in like school girl costumes or like outfits okay they're going for a very particular type of person i guess yeah pedophiles yeah i'm 12 angel emoji like that's weird yeah i'm like i

if if you look young it's gonna be enough of a hurdle for me to get over in the first place like i remember there was a woman who i really enjoyed spending time with and she was a lot of fun got along great but she was very very petite and she looked very young she was older than me but like i i literally couldn't get over it how young she looked especially like during intimate moments that like i was just like i i'm sorry i didn't tell her why but i was just like i can't can't do this anymore. So the idea that like that's what you're appealing to. Yeah. Very uncomfortable.

Also, like looking 12 is just categorically terrible. You know what I mean? Like it's not like, oh, like I look young. Well, it's like 12 would be repulsive because we're on a dating platform. So it's like even you putting that out there, like that's not good. You know what I mean? It's like it's kind of up for me to decide what you look. You know, if I see you look very young, they'll be like, oh.

But like the fact that you're saying it is also, I think, weird. Like I feel like you're trying to put that across less than worn. I don't know. That's not a good thing. Why would you say that? No, it's like she's leaning. She's definitely leaning into how young she looks. Yeah. I don't know that's not a good thing why would you say that no it's like she's leaning she's definitely leaning into how young she looks yeah it's like i don't know it feels very creepy and also i guess like you could change your age this happens all the time on fucking up

so i would be very nervous and i wouldn't go very uncomfortable absolutely not that would be a zero yep you know let's do this one because it's very quick uh this is a bubble no this is hinge and this is from sydney and she says we'll get along if we probably won't great why are you here yeah okay i don't know. Someone was probably like, oh, Sydney's cute. Oh. Oh, cool. You're already calling it quits. Neat. Like, why would you say yes to this?

Don't like it, Sydney. So that's a one for me. Yeah, it's just a one. It's like, if you don't get on with people, fix yourself and then get back on dating after. Speaking of therapy, you need it. If you don't want to get along with people, don't go on online dating where people are almost categorically amongst the worst people you're going to meet. Online dating isn't exactly known for their like,

oh yeah, online dating? Filled with incredible people. That's going to do it for this episode, friends. This show is officially done and we can't thank you enough for spending a little bit of time with us yeah thank you guys so much thank you to everybody who supports us on patreon thank you

to everyone who listens thank you to the Philippines yet again for getting us way high up there in the charts you guys still are just our fucking people for those of the people we're gonna ask consent here. I think we should,

I would like to give the Philippines a kiss. Do you want to give them a kiss? If they'll have it? Yes. Okay. So people who want to kiss step forward, get, get real close.

Come on over. We'll get to it. Take, take this out of your ear. Yeah. Cause it's going to be in your kiss, I guess. Take,

take a step back and that's fine. We still love you, but we respect your boundaries. All right. I'm and that's fine we still love you but we respect your boundaries all right i'm gonna just there you go thanks philippines yeah you guys are the best and that was hopefully not very weird um also some people were interacting with us on twitter during the week who are i think 80 episodes behind so they might not hear this for a while but it was it was a nice fun conversation and i love the energy you're throwing out there and we love you so when you get to this thank you i don't know whether to name drop you or not because i'm always

weird about that shit so yeah i'm not going to but you know who you are you know well they probably won't at this point they sent a thing being like you guys said something in the episode and i died laughing and i knew i hadn't looked at the title yet and i knew it had to be the title of the episode and they pulled out whom it was and they were like hell yeah nice and i appreciate the fuck out of that so thank you thank you josh eagle as well for your song paper stars you and the harvest cities if you would like to send in a question if you have a query that you would like answered or at least pondered by us, you can hit us up

at fbuddiespodcast.com or as Niall mentioned earlier, plentyofbeef.ca. I'm pretty sure I still own that. I'm like 90% sure I do. And you get the contact form, choose your own agent name or we will give one for you.

And if you'd like to support the show, as we mentioned earlier, we do have, there'll be three episodes of Pillow Talk up by the time you hear this. Head on over to the Patreon link at fbuddiespodcast.com

and you can choose a different, whatever amount of money is comfortable for you. The $7 and up option will give you access to Pillow Talk and you can upgrade and change at any point in time to fit what you need financially.

And we appreciate it from the bottom of our hearts. It really does mean a lot to us and like even just the three dollar option means a lot to us too because again this is the first year we're not losing a lot of money um which is really nice you know what i mean yeah all right ready for some terrible sex writing absolutely this is uh from the book the holiday by tm logan and the character whose voice is coming from is both a parent and a therapist ironically at the age when they were still totally wonderfully blissfully unselfconscious unaware of the adult world and happy just to play without wondering about who was looking but now she looked well like a different creature entirely as if she belonged

to a different species the beautiful people were like that lucy looked like a woman a full-grown woman at that she was only 16 but she had curves in all the right places a tiny waist legs that went on forever a chest the bikini top was only just managing to contain untouched by cellulite by age by wrinkles and lines and all the other stuff that ruined women in the end. Oh, so this is someone who might be interested in that woman we just talked about on Tinder. Yeah, a gross shit person. Yeah, a terrible shit man.

Yeah, well done, you terrible shit man. You shouldn't be a therapist or a parent. Thank you very much for listening. My name is Dane Miller. And I'm Niles Payne we've been your fuck buddies get horny