F*ck Buddies: A Sex and Dating Advice Podcast - Episode 278 - Worst Breakfast for Anal (feat. TherapyJeff)

Episode Date: February 5, 2024

This week's episode is a banger!  We're joined by the amazing Jeff Guenther, LPC, (aka TherapyJeff on Tiktok and Instagram) to answer your questions and ask the age old question of what the worst early morning meal would be to prep for a conversation about butt stuff.  Topics include your money pit of a girlfriend, talking about bed stuff outside the bedroom, grief and dating, opening your marriage to polyamory. Check out TherapyJeff and pre-order his book Big Dating Energy at https://www.therapyjeff.com/ and find him on social media as TherapyJeff.

I put my trust in you, and I trust in love. I put my trust in you, I put my trust in love. I put my trust in you, and I trust in love. I put my trust in you, I put my trust in love. Hello friends, my name is Day Miller. And I'm Niall Spain. And we're your fuck buddies. We are a dating and sex advice podcast where we take your sticky sexy situations and turn them into sexy sticky situations.

Simply put, we find questions either roaming the wilds of the internet or from our wonderful listeners and we answer them right here, right now. And this week, we are going to be discussing a couple things. Now, what are we talking about? We're going to be discussing when your boyfriend calls your relationship a money pit. Talking about bedroom stuff outside the bedroom. Grief and dating. And opening up your relationship to polyamory.

And this week we are being joined by someone if you've ever been on Instagram or TikTok and know anyone who's ever dated anyone, you know him as Therapy Jeff. Jeff, thank you very much for coming on the show. We are so excited. We're so hyped to have you. Would you like to introduce yourself? Not that there's

anyone who listens to our show who doesn't know who you are, but just embellish a little bit. Who are you? Sure. Yeah. My name is Jeff. I go as Therapy Jeff on TikTok and Instagram. I'm an actual therapist too. I'm a licensed professional counselor. I've been a therapist for 20 years now. So I've been seeing individuals and couples for a really long time. I also have my own podcast called Big Dating Energy. Just launched that.

There's just a few episodes out right now. And I have a book coming out that you can pre-order also called Big Dating Energy. And I'm happy to be here. Hell yeah. yeah that's great I mean we this is exciting for us because we as people who aren't therapists we are always like we always try to warn people and be like hey this is anecdotal stuff this is this is experience-based stuff and nine times out of ten like our our answers are always like communicate or see a professional counselor or therapist like those are those are the answers i feel like we have or go see a doctor that is usually our our other our other advice um

yeah so it's exciting to have uh to have someone who who has the the uh you know educational uh background to to discuss these things uh that we think are really important to discuss. Nell, do you want to start us off with our first question? Yeah, let's get going. So this is by user AcceptableTask3233. My boyfriend, 31-year-old male, called our relationship a money pit. I, 25-year-old female, am hurt. How do I navigate this? My boyfriend and I have been together for two years, and I'll be honest, he makes a

lot of money, at least compared to me. He makes over 100k and runs three businesses. However, I just graduated college a year ago and I'm struggling with college debt and other financial decisions I wish I could have been talked out of when I was a teenager. But he's an amazing man to me. He's kind, loving, patient, always honest, and I know he's the man I want to be with for the rest of my life. He's the kindest man I've ever met. We live together in a small one-bedroom apartment. He used to live with his parents, so he moved in with me and things are great. The last few months are rough on the wallet, and I needed to ask for help financially a couple of times. I'm not proud of it since I hold dearly

to my independence and never asked anyone for help or money ever. He's helped me reorganize my finances and seemed happy in our small apartment, even if it's super small and not in the best area. The other day, though, his friend called him. His friend is unemployed, hates to work and doesn't have a car and isn't supporting himself at all. I was in the car, so the call was on Bluetooth speaker and his friend was talking about how he thinks the girl he's seeing might be his next girlfriend. My boyfriend told him it's great news, but he needs to get things together before settling into a relationship. His friend asked what he meant, and my boyfriend said, there's no such thing as romance without finance. I understand you want to be with someone, but you don't have a stable income,

and most women want a man who is able to support themselves and show signs they can take care of her also. You got to make sure you have a stable enough job, because relationships are a huge money pit, and you'll find yourself paying for them in ways you didn't expect, like dinner, some of their bills, gifts they may or may not ever use, and random stuff you'll never expect to spend on. Not exactly fair, but every man I know admits that.

At the end of the day, a relationship can be a bill you'll never seem to stop paying. I love my relationship, but even I'm taken by surprise sometimes, but I'm happy anyway. Then he kissed my hand on the end of the conversation. I sat there feeling embarrassed and humiliated. I know he didn't directly say anything about me, but ouch. I asked him about it. He said he didn't mean anything wrong, but if the impact of his words hurt me, he's sorry, and he can try to reword things next time. I asked him if he told me as a bill, and he said, not you personally, but relationships are an expense.

You don't make money having a life partner. You spend money, and that's okay. I feel wrong for being upset, but it hurt. How do I navigate this? What's the right thing to do? Okay. That's a whole saga. Yeah, that is a real saga.

Do you two believe that? Like, do you look at a relationship as sort of like an investment, like financially? And do you feel like it can be a money pit? I think there's a little bit of truth that I think he says where it's like having a life partner isn't something that like makes money like that. That to me, like strikes true. It's like, yeah, it's like, I'm not dating someone to generate revenue. Right. And to be with someone, it's like, yeah, you're going to go on dates.

Yeah. You're going to go on trips. So it's like, yes, you're going to spend money to be with someone. So I, I like, I get roughly like what he's, where he's coming from and his like point of view. I think he did a real fucking bad job sort of expressing it, but I understand like the, the like mindset he's in of being like, if you want to have a relationship and you want some sort of stability, then, you know, if, if you don't have any financial stability, you're operating at a loss already. If you can't pay rent, then if you're then going to try to

start dating, then it's like, okay, well, every time you try to plan a date, it's like, well, I actually can't do that, or you're going to have to pay for that. And that puts strain on a relationship immediately. The same way it's like, I wouldn can't do that. Or you're going to have to pay for that. And that puts strain on a relationship immediately. The same way it's like I wouldn't want to date someone if every time we went out, I had to pay for everything. Yeah, to me, I don't really see them as like a monetary drain or a pit because like a lot of the things you mentioned, like going out and dinner and drinks and vacations, I'd be doing that anyway. And it's like, unless you're the sole provider for the relationship, which presumably you either wouldn't do if you weren't comfortable with or would do if you were, you know what I mean? I don't think you should do either if you're not comfortable with it.

So like, to me, it doesn't seem that way. I, the only thing I really agree with him saying is that there's no like romance without finance. And I just agree in terms of like, if you're getting serious with someone, you do have to discuss money. Yeah, no, totally. Yeah. I agree with where both of you are coming from. I think, and he said like some facts, right? Like relationships typically cost money. It's going to be a factor in any relationship most likely, but it's, I mean, he might've been able to save himself

if he didn't use the word money pit, because that like implies, right? That implies that you're not getting back what you want from the investment. You just like keep on putting money into something and it keeps on falling apart, right? Or like that it's a waste. Yeah, exactly.

That it's a waste of money, that you're not getting what you want. You know, so it's a waste. Yeah, exactly. That it's a waste of money that you're not getting what you want, you know? So I don't like that. And it's also kind of like, I would imagine that she is feeling like she's now like not of value or she's worried that she might not be of value, like financial value or something. Like he's always kind of like making this determination.

Like, yeah, I mean, it's worth it, but like like when is it not going to be worth it for her what does she have to do to sort of like make up for like the financial investment that he's putting into this so when she's like oh i don't feel good that i felt bad or something like no i totally fucking get it that you feel bad like being compared to like money even though like that all could be operating under the surface in every relationship am i getting what i want out of this relationship how much am i putting into this relationship whether it's like energy or money or time or attention you want it to feel balanced right um So I think that's kind of what he's talking about it, but he's talking about it in a way that this kind of conversation even if you mean well is a fuck up i think you've you've aired there for sure and if you don't mean well because it definitely could

have been like oh this is my chance to like talk about it without talking about it which i think is also not the way forward but i will say in the question she asked or in the title she says he called the relationship or their relationship a money pit whereas really he said relationships are a money pit and i do think there's a distinction there which again could speak to like how she's feeling currently quite sensitive because of having to do this thing that isn't you know usual for her and and while that's like a important distinction that like he's calling relationships a money pit and not specifically her a money pit like that's like she sort of mentioned in the in the question or in the in what she was saying like there's a difference between like intention and impact it wasn't his intention to make her feel bad or make it feel like he's like you know she's an investment that

he's losing money on but that's what she like took away with and she's still struggling with it so he tried to address that it seems like and it didn't quite work and they probably have to talk about it again i do appreciate that he towards the end he was like i'm really sorry if that's how it came across i will try to like reframe things i think that's a big we all put our foot in our mouth at least i do many times where it's like okay yes i yes, I, here's what I like. Now that I have three seconds and I've stopped my mouth from, from moving faster than my brain, I've had time to like, sort of think about things. Here's what I wanted to say.

I'm sorry if like, I understand that this is how you interpret it by the way that I said it, because like that, that was not done well on my part. So like, I appreciate people who can look at things. it by the way that I said it because like that that was not done well on my part so like I appreciate people who can look at things because like the amount of times we see people or we have questions where it's like my partner said this and when I said something to him you know then he gets into like the gaslighting or like the immediate defensive of being like well you know why did you think that or it's like I never said that it's like all right great so it's like I do appreciate that the guy was like hey I hear you and I'm sorry. And in the future,

I will try to rephrase how I view these things. But I think like what both of you guys said, I think you have that conversation again and be like, hey, this is how that conversation made me feel. And I would like a little reassurance that that isn't how you view, you know, our relationship and me, because if I do need to be what's an incredibly vulnerable position of asking for financial help, I don't want to feel like that has that's going to have a taxing effect on our relationship. Because, you know, she said it. She was like, I the first time I've ever had to ask for money or whatever. I know that would be really hard for me, even if it wasn't like a partner, even if it was just like asking my parents or something for financial aid, like that would be a real hard step for me. So taking that risk and trusting a partner to, to ask something like that, I think, uh, you need the reassurance of being like, I,

I need to know that like, this isn't going to implode our relationship if I have to do it again. And if it is becoming a burden, I need you to like, let me know exactly before it's a problem. Yeah. So I think like, I think they've, they've got the pieces,

I think to make this. Okay. I think they just need to like sit down and make sure they've got their borders all lined up before they start putting it all together. Yeah, for sure. And you make a good point that like, she may already feel indebted to him.

And then it's going to like affect like the power dynamic in a relationship. Like the person who has more money or is actually like loaning or giving money to the other partner, that's going to mess with like who has more power and who gets to make more decisions and all that stuff. And that's like hard to handle and figure out. And so you got to kind of like talk about that and make sure that you're aware of like the effect that it's having on the dynamic, you know? More generally, it's like at this step, she needs to not like, if she's still upset,

don't just like bury it. Like you do need to have that conversation. You do need to bring it up, even if it's kind of just the same conversation again. And I think like, if it's that you're feeling so like, you're so uncomfortable with this, like find a way forward that like makes you feel better, whether it's a repayment plan or like getting a part-time job and like, or covering X bill, or, you know, if it's something on your end, that's making you uncomfortable, like try to claim that power back for yourself and on his side it's like if you're going to do something like financially help somebody do it genuinely and don't like turn around after the fact and be like i am gonna like be shitty about it now you know what i mean like you if you're gonna do it do it and if you can't do it like comfortably and like genuinely and kindly don't

you know yeah yeah. Yeah, totally. I agree with that. All right. Um, this is sent in from one of our listeners, which I am, uh, giving the code name agent locomotive,

a long time listener of the show. And the one thing you guys always say is to have conversations about the bedroom out of the bedroom. But my boyfriend only ever wants to discuss his kinks, fantasies, and fetishes while we're having sex, but never outside of the bedroom. Anytime I try to bring it up, uh, anything alongside of this topic, he either gets frustrated,

embarrassed, or shy and says, now isn't the time to talk about it. But I don't want to make decisions about our sex life in the heat of the moment. What can we do to make this more comfortable for him and safer for me? Yeah, I think that's good advice that you guys give of having these sorts of conversations outside of the bedroom. Because when you're in the bedroom, and if you have your clothes off, that's a really vulnerable place to be. And now you're having an even more vulnerable conversation, possibly talking about all the different fantasies and stuff like that. So yeah, have the conversation outside of the bedroom, for sure. But it sounds like he's a little shut down outside of the bedroom. Yeah. I don't know. What do you guys think about this so far?

It's always a give and take in a relationship where like one partner can't be like, this isn't okay for me, but oh, I don't care that you don't want to do it while we're like in the heat of the moment. So like if a time isn't good for him and the time isn't good for you, you got to kind of compromise that, right? And talk. And I think in this case, you know, explain the reasons why you don't want to do it in the heat of the moment, because one, it can take away, like you're, you're there to do something very different than have a discussion. Right. So it's taking away from that. I also feel like, you know, in the heat of the moment, blood is elsewhere. The mind is elsewhere. You know know you might end up saying yes or no that you know it's it's not the time we all

know that so explain why you don't want to do it in that scenario and ask him why he doesn't want to do it in whatever scenario you asked and then see if there's a middle ground yeah and you know there is depending on what the kinks and the fetishes are there is safety conversations that need to be had as well you need to establish safe words and sort of you know a non-verbal safe word there's like all kinds of things that like you can't just be like in the middle of having sex and be like hey do you want to try breath play and not have like the safety things lined up for it like you don't just jump into to certain things without a conversation about that kind of stuff as well so it's like i think you need to my my solution for this is

you find a middle ground between like sex time and you know having coffee in the morning time and find like a sexy game or something to play like there are tons of like sex aids and stuff like that where it's like cannot remember the name of it right now but it's like a card game where it's like almost like ice breakers but it's it's it's very very spicy questions and a lot of them are like you know what's your wildest fantasy and stuff like that turn it into like a strip game turn it into like a a foreplay situation so that you're in a sexy mindset but you're not caught like you're not going to agree to do something like it's not like you're not just gonna be like oops now we're in

bondage how did that happen um but you're you're in a in a mindset where it's not just you know you guys are having breakfast and you're trying to discuss you know anal or something like whatever it is right like um there's there's at least at least you've like framed and like positioned yourself to be in like a sexy mindset and you could have a conversation hopefully a little more comfortably there i'm wondering what like what is like the worst breakfast you could have while discussing anal like nutella stuffed pancakes probably yeah i was gonna say beans on toast would also probably not be incredibly appetizing yeah what are those like overnight oats that are like chocolate chia seeds i feel like yeah it's all about the color and the

consistency really yeah now what would be the best? I don't know. I'm not quite sure. I don't know if there is one, guys. Yeah, I'll have to give that one more thought of what would be the best. I think that you're both right, though Like where is the compromise that you can have? And I think, yeah, like playing that like spicy card game or even like going out on like a romantic date

at like a dark, you know, cute restaurant or something where like the mood is set, but we still have our clothes on. We're like in public. So we have to kind of like be PG and serious about what we're talking about. Yeah. There's a middle ground. And you can like, she to kind of like be pg and serious about what we're talking about yeah there's a middle ground and you can like she can kind of be like i like can't wait to do all these like kinky fantasies i'm so excited to do it let's like problem solve around it too like what's

practical what's like do we have to like get certain toys do we have to like prepare the scene um here are the things that i like what are the things that I like. What are the things that you like? And then that can kind of like set the tone or set the mood for the evening. And then you can go home and maybe do all that stuff. Although it's always smart to like fuck before dinner instead of after dinner. Because after dinner, you're just fucking, you're full. You're like, you're not feeling good. Yeah.

Situations are not ideal. No. Yeah. But I do think like, that's such a good idea because again, you're like sexy. It's peripheral, but you know, you can't just bone down in the middle of a restaurant, nor should you depending on the restaurant. Um, but like, I think that's also like almost like a sexy act in itself. Cause like it's the tease and the tantalization of like talking about it, if you do bring up a kink that involves like what dame was saying like safety talk even if you do it in the heat of the moment that's to do it

safely it's still gonna progress to like not sexy moments because you're gonna have to actually like talk and be responsible and maybe look things up and and like no matter what there's no hot and heavy way to do that safely unless you both come into the situation with like prior knowledge and the trust and knowledge that each of you has that knowledge and even still you're gonna have to meet on the same playing field there and make sure that you know again safe words non non-verbal you know safe signals etc so i would just make sure that in any of these conversations if someone is unwilling to have it in a less kind of like hot and heavy situation that they are aware of, of safety and like, we'll kind of put the work in, in that regard, because you need to be safe.

Yeah. I think if you're, if you're going to have like these conversations, like I, I think the, the sort of like middle ground that we're talking about needs to be like step one in terms of it. But I like, I think you need to then try to transition into being able to have these conversations without a game or a sexy romantic atmosphere. Like if you can't transition to a place of, of comfort and security and like knowing that your partner won't judge you for your kinks or your fetishes or whatever, like that really needs to be like, that should be the prime goal and not to like, not to talk for your kinks or your fetishes or whatever like that really needs to be like

that should be the prime goal and not to like not to talk about the kinks but to get him to be more comfortable to be able to talk about it regardless because like okay great you you do these things and you have this conversation and you learn that he's into x y and z but as now said it's like if he's not then comfortable enough to bring it up outside of these like very specific circumstances, then you're still going to run into trouble. So it's a matter of like comfort and security and getting over like whatever, as you said, like very shut down, like getting like opening up those barriers. Because I think like that's the best sex you have is when they're when the barriers come down and the communication is is free flowing. Like the second you start like what the barriers come up the walls come down never mind i get it i don't know um yeah it's like you you need to like the second you start sort of like

putting putting blocks on the communication it's like well well, you'll get like trickles of what you want, but no one wants trickles. No, unless that's your king. Not when you're getting all that breakfast. But I want to know why, I mean, we don't have this answer, but why does he feel so uncomfortable talking about it outside of the bedroom? I get that when you're in the moment and it outside of the bedroom? Like I get that, like when you're in the moment and it's hot and heavy and you're turned on,

then like you, you feel like you want to like say shit that you might not typically say. You can kind of like go there a little bit. Cause you're like in that mood. But it seems so stark and jarring that he can't get close to that outside of the, like what makes him uncomfortable, how to make him more comfortable.

Like we're saying, like, how can you find some middle ground or whatever? But like, there's, there's some weird block there that he's going to have to work through. And she's going to probably have to be like, you know,

patient and compassionate with, but also like boundary, like, no, we're not going to do these things unless we can like come up with a plan. Yeah. And this is usually when we would tell people to go see a counselor or a therapist,

because that is, there's, there's something that like we can do as partners, but there's, there's a limit to it where it's like, okay, like we're trying to have a conversation, but there are things that you need to work on internally.

And that's the job for a professional. I would imagine that he had, there's like some sort of shame, like where he doesn't want to talk about it. He feels ashamed. He feels embarrassed or something, and talking to a therapist would probably help him explore that shame and open up a bit. I was just going to say maybe a good first step for her is rather than sitting down and being like, hey, we're out of the bedroom. This is when I want to talk. Go. You lead the conversation. And instead of being like, hey, hit me with your kinks. You say, here are mine. Because it's a lot easier in this scenario to listen and, you know, see you do it and you

lead the way than to just be like, it's all on you. Go. Yeah, that's a good, that's good advice. And even just like a reassuring hand of, as I said, like, if you want to take the chart and be like, here are some of the things I'm into. I would love to know what you're into. And even just like a reassuring hand of, as I said, like if you want to take the charge and be like, here are some of the things I'm into, I would love to know what you're into. And then we can work together to see if those are things that we both want to do. You know what I mean? Like,

yeah, I think not enough people, I feel like ever realize how much reassurance we all need, like, or, or how much, like just a little bit of reassurance goes, like it,

it goes so fucking far. And that's something I've learned just recently of like, of myself of being like, Oh, it's not a bad thing to every now and then ask your partner, like just being like, Hey, are you, are you comfortable with these things? Or like, are you satisfied with this stuff? Because like, if you're not like, let's talk about it. But like just hearing someone say like, no, I I'm really enjoying what we're doing right now. And I have no notes like that for me, like that refills all of my meters up to green and like, I feel good.

And it's, it's something that I'm, I'm really trying to encourage like my friends to do. And I'm trying to like do it more myself because as dudes, I feel like we don't do it just based on like societal pressure of being like, oh, asking for reassurance is like, you know, it's a, it's a weak thing to do. It's a pussy thing to do. Like you're a man, you don't need reassurance is like you know it's a it's a weak thing to do it's a pussy thing to do like you're a man you don't need reassurance just do whatever you want i feel like that's such a it's one of the many ways toxic masculinity has fucked our shit up so bad but like like asking for reassurance has been it's been a game changer for me and it's just been so nice

yeah no asking for reassurance is just good communication in a relationship you want to feel safe you want to feel secure you want to feel loved and if you're like are feeling like you're not quite getting it then speak up you know 100 uh we got this one sent into us today uh and i'm gonna call them agent cabbage because i was in cabbage town at the time it is no no shade on whoever you are. Cabbage is actually really tasty. So they say, hello, I am neurodivergent and very honest and direct with people, especially those I date. How do I bring up the grief of losing my best friend and brother without being too much?

A part of me thinks there's no such thing, but I want to know your perspective because dating and sharing often makes me feel like I did something wrong after sharing my tale. Thank you. Yeah. Your best friend slash brother has passed away. That's like a huge, huge loss. And a lot of people talk about like, you know, on first dates, typically you're just sort of like hanging out, trying to vibe, figure out like the, like the question going into a first date is like do i want a second date basically not like do i want to have this person's babies are we going to be a good long-term match whatever um so typically we kind of want to make it a little bit like light and playful and telling somebody that you just lost your your brother and best friend is incredibly heavy the the thing is, though, is that if you're going into a date and you're feeling really affected by this huge thing or trauma

that just went on, your date is probably going to pick up on something being weird or off. So then you might want to think about how you can talk about that, but not talk about it. So you can kind of be like, ugh, it's been a heavy week. There's been a lot of shit going on. I'm processing so many things, but I'm happy to be here with you right now. But just know that I'm a little funky. I'm trying my best or something. And then if the date asks for more information and it feels comfortable

saying it then maybe there's an opening to talk about it also if you're not like in the right mental or emotional place to go dating because you're struggling with a ton of grief maybe pump the brakes a little bit until you've processed some of that yeah i wasn't sure if it was like mean to say that because that was kind of the first thought for me. It's like if you're if you're in such a bad space and like obviously you would be like maybe maybe it's time to not date because dating can take so much out of you. And as you say, it's like you can you can put your bravest face forward. But like people intuit these things so well from various things, but especially like this. And I think it's going to be hard to be you in a way you would want if you're grieving so hard. And it could be really bad for your own recovery if you go and you have bad dates. And you could

very well have bad dates because you're not you as much as you would be if you weren't grieving. And then that's going to be kind of like a downward spiral maybe so i was wondering if i could say you know just maybe maybe don't date now if you're fucked up and again full right to be fucked up like of course maybe maybe take time for yourself and like focus on things that are going to build you up and get you on the right path towards towards being you again less than being out and like feeling this need to to vent and like you on the right path towards, towards being you again, less than being out and like feeling this need to, to vent and like dump on people. Yeah. I mean,

this is what I've talked about a bunch of times. We've talked about it on the show as well. It's like, I find that there are like times in your life where you can shift from the focus of being like, I'm actively pursuing a romantic or sexual relationship and be like, you know what? I'm going to invest in my platonic relationships.

I'm going to invest in like my family. I'm going to invest in my friends. And I feel like this is kind of one of those times where you kind of like put the, the, the big train track, like thing that switches gears, you know,

you put you on the other track for a bit, just like you went through something absolutely traumatic. I think all three of us are in agreement that like this sucks so hard and we understand why you are feeling the way that you're feeling. I think you run the risk of burning yourself out. described it before, you know, finding the round peg and just like pushing it through the square hole just because you do need someone to sort of like maybe fill a gap or you're getting a level of attention that feels good, but you then make bad decisions because that person isn't actually good for you or is using your grief and trauma to their own advantage. It's like, I've seen a ton of people fall into really, really bad relationships and really, really harmful relationships because of really bad situations that they find themselves

in. Like I had a friend who lost their dad and ended up getting into a really abusive relationship with an older person because it was like they were missing that figure. And it was just like, we all watched it happen. And we were all like, don't do it. And I think you've got to, I'm going to echo everyone else and just pump the brakes for a bit and invest in yourself and invest in the people that you already know care about you and not try to find, for the time being, someone. Like I think you, hopefully you have a support system around you that you can draw from and just really invest in that and let them invest in you and take care of you.

And then once you're feeling closer to normal, you, then you can go out and, and do it. I also want to stress that, like, I don't think any, any of us are saying also that like you have to pretend like this didn't happen. I think that is like, I think that's a really bad. Um, I know there are a lot of people who like, as you said, like on a first date, people are always like, Oh, don't trauma dump. They'll talk about your ex, blah, blah, blah. But it's like, don't, don't bury it either. I, right. And I think that's something I really want to stress of being like, don't try to go through your life now or like any dates and be like, can't talk about my brother I think that's something I really want to stress of being like, don't try to go through your life now or any dates and be like, can't talk about my brother because that's going to bum them out. It happened and it's important to you. So still live with it. Just don't pretend like it didn't happen.

Yeah. And if you go on a first date and this is still really fresh, whether you are deliberately doing this or not, you're kind of putting a lot on that other person. Now, all of a sudden, they don't fucking know you. They're just trying to get to know you. And now, all of a sudden, you're talking about this huge, big traumatic thing that's happened. Now, they're like, okay, well, I guess I have to kind of be really there for them or supportive. And that's not their role at all. And it's going to get really funky, or it's going to get really funky or it's going to open up something where they're going to share a big huge trauma or something and now this relationship is based on these like horrible things that have happened and that's what brings you closer and that's not really how you want to start a relationship right so yeah i i'm

again echoing what we're all saying here but like take a beat, slow down, get right, right enough so that it's not the most incredibly overwhelming thing ever. And I think therapy also. Sure, yeah, or bury it down. But if you find that you're still in a place where it's so fresh that you can't not, then maybe that's not the time you should be dating. That's a clue. But good luck. And I'm sorry, because that's awful. Sorry for your loss. And we hope you're getting into a better place.

We hope, like I said, I hope you have a support system in place that are taking care of you. Now, in the beginning, I did tease a question, but I'm looking at my other question. I don't think we have time to get to it. I would rather do this. You're going to lie to our listeners. I know. Okay.

Let's, let's do a quick rapid fire question because we've talked about this. Now, and I have talked about this so many times, so I'm just going to throw it to you, Jeff. This is from agent riverside my partner and i are considering opening opening our relationship we've been together for 12 years

married for six and no kids what are some guidelines to having this conversation and what are some red flags to look out for i'm interested in like why you want to open it up like hopefully you're all feeling really secure in the relationship and this is something that you're like interested in exploring together and you're both on the same page. You talk about rules, boundaries, expectations. You talk about there's going to be fears, insecurities, anxieties that are going to come up. How do you handle that? Does one person want it more than the other? What's this going to do to like what are your expectations what is this going to do to the relationship it's uh a lot of times this is

something like this is a conversation that needs to happen over many months or even a year or something like this isn't like a conversation that you have over dinner and then you just fucking go for it right um and how can you kind of or yeah yeah your your what was it your bean filled crepe bean filled crepe oh i don't i don't know i don't i don't think there is a bean filled crepe and i hope that they're that's yeah that's i the interest exists i promise you someone's done it there was a period of which like people were putting beans and everything on the internet so but also i bet you could do it

well sorry we've derailed the entire conversation um yeah so but this is like this is exciting stuff right but think about like how to slowly sort of dip into this. Maybe first go to a sex club and look at people doing sex. Maybe you can talk to other people that are in poly, open, alternative types of relationships and ask them how it's been going for them. There's a lot of times there's like communities in your area where there's like a lot of poly and open people and just like go to one of those hangs or go to one of those talks or something and just like feel out the vibes. You're going to need to have like really good communication. You're going to have to be like really honest with each other.

You're going to be experiencing emotions maybe that you haven't ever experienced in this relationship. So you got to kind of like slowly move into it there's a book that i typically recommend called poly secure and it like goes through lots of like step-by-step instructions on like what you should do if you're planning on opening up your where your relationship amazing perfect i really like the thing you said at the start, which is that like, why? Cause I feel like we've covered some stuff and I don't know if I've ever thought that in that way.

So that was really good. Yeah. Okay. Let me, let me get into this one. Cause I was, I was scared that we wouldn't get to it. I've recently started a secret sexual relationship with an older guy at my

gym. I go to classes and we're a very social group. We often hang out outside of the gym together as well. He's checked with me to see how public I'd like this to be. And at the moment I want to keep it just between us because A, it's private and B, it's kind of hot to have a secret. He doesn't mind that he's been very casual about it. However, another woman at the gym has been hitting on him during our social outings and I've seen him get a little uncomfortable as he's coming up with excuses as to why he's not interested he said he's not interested in pursuing two other people in the same group or two people in the same group but i'm not sure how do i approach this wait so is it let me get this

straight who doesn't want to talk who wants to keep it private uh so she wants to keep it private he checked in and was like is this a thing should we keep it secret and she was like yes i want to keep it secret and he's been like okay and then but like i guess now that during their outings like social outings one of the other ladies in the group has been hitting on him and he's been i guess uncomfortably being like no thank you because he's he's seeing this other lady and he doesn't want to be seeing multiple people in the same group do you do you feel like um secret uh relationships are hot like does that do it for you guys yeah not really i get no like i get nothing out of it personally i've like i've been in relationships where people are

like want to keep it secret for x amount of time or reasons or whatever like i was sleeping with a manager at work before and like i understood the the need for it but like the hot stuff that we would have been doing such as like fooling around in work we have to keep secret anyway so that's the fun stuff and it's like there's no world where we just are like hey we're gonna go bone you know so like that's always going to be secret and that's fun whereas just having to navigate social waters in that way not the most fun yeah i it depends on the person and who we're keeping it secret from and why we're doing it like i think if you're if you're doing, obviously for a malicious reason sucks and I wouldn't participate. But I think like, if you're just doing it for fun, I think that can be fun. You know what I mean?

Like if you're, if you've just like arbitrarily decided to be like, Hey, we're not going to tell anyone. I like that. That to me is, is fun because it's harmless. It's just kind of like a game you're playing and like, I like games, but I think in this scenario, I understand wanting to like figure things out before telling your, your friend group. Like I get that of being like, maybe this is like a one or two things and we're going to be like,

actually we're not into it and we don't want to make it weird for everyone else. So it's like, if the, can you tell me like if they're both cool, I would be able to be like, yeah, this this didn't work out like no one will ever know whereas like if someone if you like right out the gate be like we're hooking up and then like the next time you see each other you're like we're not hooking up anymore everyone's gonna be like the fuck's going on so i like i i get it from that point of view

i think it can be really hot when something is secret and nobody knows that there's like this like you're fucking around with somebody else in the social group that's cool if you want to keep it secret then these are the consequences right like yeah somebody is gonna fucking hit on him possibly because nobody knows that they shouldn't hit on him and now you have a decision to make like one of the possible solutions is to be more open and public about this connection so that you don't have to worry about this kind of shit but you know like are you keeping it secret because it's like a sexy hot taboo thing to do or are you keeping it secret because you're like a little ashamed

or embarrassed that like you're fucking the old dude in the group? Like what? I will say it seems to me like the oh, it's super hot is more of like, oh, this is a fun excuse that I can use. Whereas like I'm going to guess there's more to it than that. Maybe that's maybe that's me just, you know, reaching. I will say I'm not entirely sure what they're asking at the end. I get I'm not sure if they don't believe him that he's not interested in the this new woman or if she's asking sort of like the the route Jeff was going and being like, should I plant a flag so people save this poor man from uncomfortable experiences of being hit on. You imagine it'd be a really easy solve of he just goes, oh, I'm kind of seeing someone.

Right. You know, you don't have to say it's her. It's her. She's right over there. But yeah, you can just be like, I'm seeing someone like and then no one's getting hurt. You don't have to be weird and awkward. So like, is it that he just hasn't thought of that yet? Or like, I also want to know, like, are they exclusive?

Because if they're exclusive, it kind of seems like a really weird thing to keep secret. just hasn't thought of that yet or like i also want to know like are they exclusive because if they're exclusive it kind of seems like a really weird thing to keep secret and if they're not it's like then i guess they kind of maybe need to lay down groundwork or ground rules with the group for example like are the group off limits you know or is it kind of a gray area where he's like i don't know what to do and that's kind of where the awkwardness comes from yeah i don't know it would be interesting because like she says he's like giving excuses like the excuse might be like oh i'm seeing people and the uncomfortableness might just be because he's like oh the woman i'm hooking up with is over there watching me get hit on you know i mean so it's like all of the like everything we're

talking about could be true simultaneously you know what i mean but it's like i feel like the two of you need to like sit down and be like what's the game like what what are we doing like if we want to just fuck around behind our friends backs every now and then and not tell anyone sure great that's fine if that's what you want but then like you do need to like as again establish rules of being like no one else like as long as we're seeing each other and it's like he because like they do communicate, but like in weird ways because he's like, oh, I'm not interested in like hooking up with like I don't want to love triangle in this friend group that I was like because I get it. I agree with him. I wouldn't want to get into that messy situation either. So it's like I feel like they're almost there, but I feel like they just sit down and and be like, let's draw like a little, a blueprint of like what the fuck we're doing.

Cause I don't think either of them know. No, I don't think either of them know. Yeah, exactly. And I think that like, they don't want to communicate. I think maybe that's like part of the hotness or something. Like they're not saying anything about it. We're not going to like lay any ground rules, but you might be getting to that point now where you kind of have to. And I think in this situation, something really important to consider is like, are your friends, because it's going to come out eventually.

Are they going to be pissed off that you kept it from them? Because either there's a real reason you've done it or you've done it arbitrarily. But are those reasons worth potential hurt feelings? Because this poor woman who's been hitting on them like in the same room and then being turned down awkwardly while you've just been there like she might take that poorly because like you might feel like kind of you've been taken for a fool or whatever and like i think that's really important to consider like are your reasons valid enough to risk hurt feelings in this friend group because they might not see it the same way you do that's a good point yeah i guess yeah like how close are you are you guys literally

just like you see each other every now and then it like you you do your whatever spin class i don't know what the hell you guys do um and then like every now and then like do you go out like after class and like grab a beer or something or is it like do you guys like actually hang out hang out you know what i mean like i don't know i'm not sure what the dynamics of the group are like are you like eating crepes and burrito like with beans in them like what's going on here what's the plan i'm imagining a community-esque situation where they just spend every waking moment together would that make him the chevy chase is that the guy it's the old yeah probably he's a little problematic so yeah i believe he's a gigantic piece of shit oh yeah he's not the best shit oh yeah he's fucking terrible

unless this is what she's keeping it a secret no it could be it could be annie and jeff jeff was in his 30s and he was 19 right right yeah right doesn't have to be chevy chase it's the old one i don't know all right well i guess we should pass the mic over to you because i want to hear about your book and i want to hear about your new podcast and also i want to congratulate you on a million instagram followers i believe as of today uh as of this week yes nice yeah i saw your cake it looked great thank you um yeah it uh it took a couple years to get those million followers but i'm pretty proud of it. I have 2.8 million followers on TikTok, which is bonkers. But I got most of those followers during the pandemic when

we're all going through a mental health crisis. Therapy was really trending back then. So I hopped on board. But yeah, I have a new podcast. Well, I actually have two new podcasts. One of them just launched. Another one is launching in a week new podcasts. One of them just launched. Another one is launching in like a week or two. The current one that launched a few weeks ago is called Big Dating Energy, where I talk to, I have no idea what the fuck it's going to be, basically.

There's like so many different formats that I've been trying out just to figure out which one. So sometimes I'm interviewing a journalist, like a tech journalist about what are the algorithms for the dating apps how can we game the system sometimes i'm talking to like comedians about the relationship history other times i'm talking to like relationship experts about their book that they just wrote we'll see what that turns into so i'm just like having fun the other podcast that's launching in like a week or two is called problem solved which is a little bit

like this one but i have live callers calling in and i'm trying to yeah so like all the like i wonder what the context is here so like now i get to fucking ask what the hell is going on and how old is this is more like chevy chase or more like jeff from community there's a big difference there. That's our eternal hell is we're always like, you can't fucking put these questions up without like the key, the key piece of fucking context, please.

Right, exactly. And in that podcast, I give them advice and then that caller goes away and comes back a week later to call in to tell me how wonderful or not so wonderful that advice was. And it's turning out, I think in the episodes that I'm recording so far is that I give really amazing advice, but what happens is that like even more problems occur because of this

advice. So yeah, exactly. Basically. And I have a book coming out in July. You can pre-order it now. It's called Big Dating Energy. Although I think just a coming out in July. You can pre-order it now. It's called Big Dating Energy. Although I think just a couple of days ago, my publisher was like, we need to totally redo the cover. So they're going to like slap my beautiful face on the cover is I think what they want to do, which I understand. I can respect that. It's a great face. It's a great, it's such a handsome face. It's so cute. Yeah. So you can pre-order that now. It's like a fun, easy to read dating and relationship advice book.

Yep. And we will have links to that in the show notes in the bottom of the episode. I don't know why I pointed down. We're an audio podcast. I don't know what I pointed. We finally started videoing things, but there was a moment where it's like, what are you fucking? Oh yeah, we do. I don't know.

I don't know what i'm doing man um i went back to like my early 2000 youtube daves where i tell people to like in the link below right yeah oh man like comment subscribe yeah i mean i don't know what happened there guys um before we end the episode we do like to hop onto online dating platforms such as tinder bumble and hinge and peruse the profiles for what works, what doesn't work in an effort to make your online dating experience a little more enjoyable. Now you have a few that you're going to bring to us, right? Okay. We rate these out of 10. You can hit us with any thoughts you have. This is from Daniel. Daniel says, 29. I'm a chill guy looking for dates and a relationship with the right guy

eventually big into music travel horror films and reality tv going to the gym to tone wouldn't mind someone to join let's talk peace emoji is this tinder this is tinder yes i'm just getting straight to the point i mean the thing is like tinderinge and Bumble, they all kind of have different vibes, you know? Yeah. Like, I feel like this probably matches the vibe of Tinder if you're looking for more of like a hookup, right? I don't know. What do you think so far? Well, I think one of the key issues here is something we always talk about is like, I think the good thing to have like on your bio is like specificity and like uniqueness.

Whereas like when you say I like specificity and like uniqueness whereas like when you say i like music and travel no fucking shit like everybody likes music and travel you know if you like new wave jazz that's something i can you know attach to and it's either exciting or a turnoff or whatever but at least it is something whereas i hear i like music and that's like i don't know the most bland shit i've ever paired i drink water yeah i like it like yeah cool you know no i agree yeah i think you need to like put something in your profile so that like it it's easily to like easy to respond to easy to engage with like you're saying this is like very fucking general you're probably going to be like thrown into the general pile unless you have some really hot photos and you're just looking to bang.

Then maybe it'll work for that. Yeah. Yeah. I was honestly for a guy's profile. I was waiting for the shoe to drop because this is this is probably the most hinged profile that I've we've gotten from a dude in a very long time usually there's like i was waiting for like you know and you know covid was a hoax and you know i mean like i was waiting for the i you know what you're making me regret that i didn't read the one i was going to read but i wasn't sure i could read it that's always that one was i'm gonna give it a i'll also say

last point referring to yourself as a chill guy is kind of weird like people get to make that call for you i don't know if you get to make that call um i'm gonna give it a six because it's bland and it's boring it's not bad but like you're right it you've delivered such a non-profile that it all hinges on your photos yeah i'm giving it a five it's like like jeff said like this is fine but unless you're really hot i'm gonna forget about it yeah yeah i'm also i want to give it a five or six i'll give it a five and a half just because like it's it's it's good but i'm most likely like gonna swipe left uh just because like there's nothing that interesting here now dane you you you're gonna get what you wish for with this one okay or not i don't know you guys

told me is this one a hell this is a hinge one and the prompt is i'm weirdly attracted to and their response is women who are intelligent wear minimum makeup have goals stay loyal and don't use pronouns i know a lot to ask that's my favorite thing man i love i love when people don't want to use pronouns it makes it just makes me so happy the best is when they themselves use a pronoun in the thing saying they don't want people to use pronouns because i'm like wow you've just you've so thoroughly just but hold on wait wait hold on like yeah this is a fucking garbage profile however is it going to attract the type of woman he's looking to attract right like he's like is is this i don't because i don't know i don't have access to these types of women that he's trying to go for. So I don't know if it's working, but there's enough like stupid fucking profiles like this

to make me think that maybe it's working to a certain degree. Do you have any feelings about that? We often like, this is more in line with the men's profiles we get set. And I'm always like, is this, did this did this work once it's like it's like when guys honk at women on the street like did this did this one time in like 1953 work and ever since then like it's been passed down through you know idiot to idiot to idiot being like one time johnny honked at a woman and she got in the car with him. And like,

like, is this like, cause it must've, it had to have worked at some point once, at least once. Right. Or maybe it's the opposite where they're like law of averages. If I do it a million times, it has to work once.

The more times it hasn't work, the more likely it is to work. That's true. That's yeah. I don't know if he's using advanced mathematical analytics on this, but it's a good point.

You do raise a good point, because whereas the other one was very bland, this one is flavorful. Unfortunately, the flavor is horrendous, but it is probably tailored for the right person. I'm still going to give it a one because I hate it.

Yeah, it's still trash. Yeah, it's trash. I'm going to give it a two just because I think it might kind of work on that person. Although probably not. And maybe is Hinge, is there a better dating app for this person where do these people do they have their own dating apps is that have you ever heard of the right stuff no i haven't heard of the right stuff so we did like not a full episode we did a bit on it it's like the right wing conservative app um that i believe got multiple people arrested because they were boasting and posting pictures of

themselves being part of the capitol hill riots which is so funny the fbi ingrained themselves into the app and we're just as like attractive you know right wing blonde blue-eyed women and we're just going through everyone who is like, cause I think one of their prompts was like, yeah, I was there on January six or whatever. Yeah. It was like a tag you could add to your profile. And like it went live within a month.

Like everyone was like melting down conservative Twitter. We're like, it's they've invaded the app. Like it's a trap. Yeah. They're getting catfished by the FBI. I respect that. Maybe, maybe that's what this profile gets you,

is your own FBI agent. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but go to those fucking apps, dude. Why are you on Hinge? Nobody likes this shit. Yeah, that's fair. Well, I have just one last one. Yeah, let's do one more.

This is nameless, probably for the best. About me. It's Tinder. Looking for travel partner. is nameless, probably for the best. About me. It's Tinder. Looking for travel partner. Minimalist, sarcastic, traveler, blunt, vulgar, hippie, dominant, metalhead, hairy, nomad, mammal, cannibal when hungry, semi-romantic in mating season, pee standing up, existential thinking sitting down, origin unknown. Hold on. Is that what they were looking for? on is that what they were looking for or is that what they're that i'm reading it and i have no fucking idea i mean i think the most alarming thing is

cannibal went hungry also mammal like it's like if someone's like hey i'm not a serial killer i'm like well now i think you are so they're like i'm a mammal i'm like what are, now I think you are. So they're like, I'm a mammal. I'm like, what are you? I feel like this person is such a fucking try hard. Like you're, you're trying so hard to be interesting or controversial or funny. And none of that is landing. Right. Zero, zero out of 10 for me. Yeah. Yeah.

Origin unknown. What do you, what does that mean? Who doesn't know where you're from? A hundred percent. This is a lizard person like without a doubt like i i don't care what anyone tells me they're a lizard person they're the only people who would be jealous of being a mammal i do love like the need of like the need to like boast like ip standing up it's like wow good job like is that like you're that's

where you're at is this is an achievement for you? It's going to be a zero for me. Actually, no, I got to give it a one because I don't know if that is worse than the other one. I'll give it a zero. No, they're both bad. They're both zeros. Okay, we're going to wrap this up. A couple of quick announcements.

We do have our big anniversary live show, February 8th, Black Sheep tickets available on our website. We've got $10 tickets or the $15 VIP. We are doing it with our good friends, 30 going on 13 Maddie and live will be there. It's going to be a absolutely unhinged chaotic show. They we've talked about it before. They describe themselves as sex negative. So it's going to be a,

a absolute banana show. We would love to see you there. I don't even know if we've sold out yet, but we will see what happens. Hopefully there are still tickets available. It was looking spicy last time. And I think if you need any kind of encouragement to go on the show, listen to their recent or to go see our show. Listen to their recent episode where they speak in such terror about coming. It's going to be great.

They're very worried that we're going to bring a sex hypnotist and ambush them with that. I think we now have to do that. 100%. I think that's the big thing. I think that's all we need to talk about. I'm going to say thank you, Josh Eagle and the Harvest Cities for our song Paper Stars and very quickly I will hit you both

with some bad sex writing. This is a Craigslist ad from Malibu. Come fuck my robot. Hi, I'm an engineer who has built an AI with a vagina. I need someone to come fuck my robot and let me watch. I can't fuck it because I'm like its dad. Thanks. Do not contact me with unsolicited services or offers.

Now, I've never seen the movie, but is this what that movie AI was about? I don't know. No, I was about? I don't know. No, I don't. I don't know, but I love that. That is amazing. Thank you for reading that to me.

I love that. This weird robot pervert is like, do not give me unsolicited offers. My name is Dave Miller. I'm now Spain. And I'm a Jeff Gunther therapy. Jeff. Thanks for having me. we've been your fuck buddies