F*ck Buddies: A Sex and Dating Advice Podcast - Episode 287 - In Defense of Travis Kelce

Episode Date: April 8, 2024

This episode is the literal definition of "Go off king!" because a) we don't answer a single question and b) this is our FIRST unedited episode.  We all adore Taylor Swift, but sometimes our big, strong football boy needs love too.

I put my trust in you, and I trust in love. I put my trust in you, I put my trust in love. I put my trust in you, and I trust in love. I put my trust in you, I put my trust in love. Hello friends, my name is Dave Miller. And I'm Niall Spain. And we're your fuck buddies. We are a dating sex advice podcast where we take your sticky, sexy situations and turn them into sexy, sticky situations.

Simply put, we are a sex and dating advice podcast and we find questions either roaming the wilds of the internet or we get them sent into ourselves by people who are wonderful like yourselves. And we answer them right here, right now. In your ears. Every Monday. What are we talking about this week now? This week we're talking about... Boyfriend wants to dump me because i'm a metalhead having the world's smallest clit why do girls always leave mid-date and having your girlfriend's best friend ruining your relationship oh dunk um before we get started okay there was some i guess you could say drama due to the subject matter of our what never mind uh uh regarding a subject matter of our our last episode

involving a certain blonde tall willowy willowy giraffe-like Would we call her a singer? We all know her as Taylor Swift but we call her poor man's corny love Do we? We call her Taylor Quake? I call her's as fast as you go

taylor underwhelming honestly taylor could probably still be in a race despite those giraffe legs no this is bad no we don't want to body shame no she looks great yes um i think this is also something we can talk about in an actual way um well no we were warned my uh darling lovely partner was like are you oh yes first and foremost oh god you sprayed me hell yeah i did cheers at least i didn't get it on the fucking microphone um my my darling lovely partner was like are you insane insane? You can't talk about Taylor Swift on your podcast. And my response was, I'm going to do it. Let them come.

Now that you've said it, I don't even care about the rest of, I don't care about our five-year or six-year legacy, however long we've been doing the show. That's how little he cares about it. He doesn't even know what it is. This is now, the only thing I want to do is incite the ire of the Swifties. But we quite like Swift. Shit, I shouldn't tell that. I mean, I do have something on this topic I do want to talk about. Yeah, I mean, like I'm going to a Taylor Swift dance party and I've been thinking about what my costume is going to be.

Sexy baby. Apparently. I mean, we've all had the dream, right? I wanted to go as Jake Gyllenhaal, but apparently... Fight Club. No. Jake Gyllenhaal Roadhouse? Roadhouse.

Yeah. Apparently, Jake Gyllenhaal is already a mainstay. They have cardboard cutouts. Oh, yeah. He's the... Again, I don't know what song. I know nothing. The whole red scarf thing, I believe.

Is it his scarf? Did he steal her scarf? It's his sister's maggie gyllenhaal what i don't know did taylor rob maggie gyllenhaal i think taylor swift roadhouse is about it is roadhouse is about jake gyllenhaal getting revenge for his poor defenseless sister and taylor swift's vicious mugging of her scarf red is a violent color and giraffes bite hard um that's what that sounds like it's you shape of your color it's red i stabbed you in the head then i stole your scarf you stupid maggie gyllenhaal bitch you spent eight weeks in bed

uh are we done with that because i got something i think we can move on okay yes uh let's talk about mr travis calce yes we see taylor swift's famous french boyfriend yes travis calce uh he was getting some body shame abuse you know what and it's funny this man just won a superb bowl the the bowl that he won super i would say probably one of the best yeah he just won a big bowl that a lot of people are hype about so like you can't come after this man i guess we gotta dial back and say what happened yes so there was a picture of of him and his uh extremely long-limbed. How tall is Taylor Swift?

Do we talk about this? She's 5'11"? 7'8". 7'8"? Yeah, she's huge. She's a really short giraffe. No, I think you are right. I think you called shot it last episode. Yeah, that's what I felt.

5'11", I think, is correct. Either way, there's a picture of them in Florida or somewhere warm, on a beach, hanging out, being cute, the way that they are. And let me tell me, or tell you. I won't let you tell you. Let me tell me about this. I've caught Kelsey Swift fever. I didn't really give a shit about him because it's a sports boy and i'm

not a i'm not a sports boy we are a b-ball boy we based our entire podcast identity on basketball which honestly i'm sorry guys we haven't talked about enough lately you're i'm sorry you're right um that's why no one's on the patreon however there's no there's no basketball there's no guess what we're gonna fix that right after this episode there's no basketball bonus content um but like the more i i read about travis kelsey and even just as his goofball brother uh the other kelsey francis i don't remember his name but like there's you know there's funny pictures of him doing funny things i think he just retired whatever um but like you know travis kelsey just like bought a a like a big building like a full of him doing funny things. I think he just retired. Whatever. But Travis Kelsey just bought a big building,

like a full fucking building to help kids, underprivileged kids, study engineering and tech and essentially get kids who would never really have the opportunity to pursue STEM careers

a leg up. I was i was like you know what the more i learn about this dude the more i'm like why is he with her but but people came for his body and not in the like they didn't come they didn't body it's the opposite they said they couldn't come because they didn't like his body yeah um and there's there's a lot of things to be said about this i i think one uh taylor swift is in that photo in a bikini and i'm glad no one said anything about her i'm sure someone did yeah but i'm glad that the media it's nice in a way that you know women have it hard all the time yes So it's cool that people aren't giving her shit again. They probably are. I think most news publications or like,

they're probably terrified. I think they knew if they were like Taylor Swift looks a little whatever giraffe. They would be descended upon like locusts at the end of time. Like maybe we will be because you seem determined to kick the nest we love her um but at the same time while we can be super happy that women are getting a break we're pretty bummed that men aren't it's true um there's there's a there's a thing and like i remember i've been talking about this for years because, uh, body image has been something I've dealt with for a long time.

And it's the thing that every guy deal. I think it's a, it's a universal human experience. I think everybody deals with it, but like the sad fact is that like men aren't allowed deal with it. And there's really no outlet for it. Yes. Right.

Like we've gotten the dove campaigns of being like, love your body. Everybody's beautiful but like there hasn't really been that for men yeah and let's be fair unfortunately there is a a subset of people who like when you try to bring this up go like what about women though and it's like yes definitely yeah like this isn't that men should be taken care of and women shouldn't be. But bringing up an issue doesn't mean we're disregarding the other one. There's and this is something we've talked a lot about on the show. And it's a big reason why we've started the show where you have to understand that like a lot of these issues, a lot of these things, a lot of the struggles have in modern uh society when it comes to the

division of gender roles and stuff like that isn't a us versus them yeah it's not men versus women it's not women versus whatever there's this same hammer falling on all of us yes it is the is the hammer of uh patriarchal society it is the hammer of toxic masculinity. I will say, I think a lot of people, the reason they look at it that way is because patriarchal and toxic masculinity are gendered. I think if we had a word that wasn't that, more people would be like,

but whatever. That's a different conversation. And it's not wrong. It's just... There's a reason why I like to reframe toxic masculinity is toxic socialization yeah because women perpetuate toxic masculinity and i've been you know you and i have both been victim of the same way that i imagine most men have been victims of and in fact i think one of the questions that i bring up i don't remember what i even said um either way hey i'm

gonna tell you now i'm doing my questions backwards so hell yeah because i couldn't remember what I even said. Either way. Hey, I'm going to tell you now. I'm doing my questions backwards. Hell yeah. Because I couldn't remember the first one. A little Missy Elliott. Yeah. Put your thing down, flip it over. I did. I put my thing down, and I haven't flipped it over yet, but I'm warning you that I'm about to.

Yeah. So that you can make room in this small closet, because I don't want to catch you underneath it and mulch you. It's your flip it over thing on the end. It is my flip it way what we're saying is um men's bodies are not uh available for comment

just as much as women's bodies shouldn't be also like the best thing is people are disparaging him and it's like it's not even like he's a pro athlete one two and he's a current pro athlete it's not even like he's a he's a pro athlete one two and he's a current pro athlete it's not even like he used to be yeah and it's been a decade he won a superb bowl also a mere matter of in which you're meant to be big yeah right like there's there's a lot of

football players who i imagine are quite toned in terms of physique sure but like probably not though or at least like to a degree like yeah it's like you look at the difference between like you know people like uh pro fighters or basketball players like that's a lot of cardio that's a lot of like burning you know calories and stuff like those people are lean for a reason they got to move fast football is an intense contact heavy sport in which you're getting hit at high speeds by big boys you need to be a big boy in order to get hit by other big boys exactly that's why you protect your quarterback quarterbacks are usually smaller boys that are trying to be hit medium boys medium boys in context of the big boys

trying to hit them yeah they're small boys yeah right and it's like they're they're there to be agile and quick exactly but then the big boys trying to hit you it takes all boys it takes all small medium large everything in between and outside of that football is a great microcosm of how we should appreciate our boys' bodies. Thank you. There's a role. Protect our small boys. Protect our small boys.

What? Try to hit them with your big boys. And celebrate your big boys. Yeah. When they hit the small boys. Mulch your boys. No, but it's a very clear example of just people not having a fucking clue on health, fitness, and bodies. know it's like yeah you

could want him to walk out with his fucking abs and his whatever but like even he was just like nah man like it's that's not realistic you know i mean it's like he's a literal professional sports person he knows this shit and i think arguably like at the top of his game. He won a Super Bowl. You know the Rob McElhenney quote? Yes, yeah. I do, but please, it's great. I'm going to fucking read it. Yeah. He, for those that don't know,

is your man from Always Sunny in Philadelphia who put on a lot of weight for one season and then for another season got incredibly shredded. Yeah. And he said, look, it's not that hard. All you need to do is lift weights six days a week. Stop drinking alcohol't eat after 7 p.m don't eat carbs or sugar at all in fact don't need anything you like get the personal trainer for magic mike sleep nine hours a night run three miles a day have a studio pay for the whole thing over six to seven months span

i don't know why everyone's not doing this it's a super realistic lifestyle and an appropriate body image to compare oneself to. I mean, it's, that's it. Like one of the things I really, I mean, there's, there's a great interview with Joel McHale who plays Jeff on community,

uh, in which he talks about like the struggles in the scenes where he's gone, had to go on shirtless because he's like, you know, he's, he's in very good shape in that, but he's like, yeah, man, I was dehydrated. Like I wouldn't drink water for like three days in order to do it. because he's like you know he's he's in very good shape in that but he's like yeah man i was

dehydrated like i wouldn't drink water for like three days yeah in order to do it's like when you perform in like a bodybuilding competition as well you literally have to dehydrate water yeah to yourself i mean uh there's there's stories of uh chris evans who plays captain america and winter soldier i believe in the scene where he's holding the helicopter, like, using the two things to hold the helicopter to the landing pad. Apparently, he passed out, like, twice during that. And I, like, I gotta give you some insider

information here. He's not actually holding a helicopter. He's pretending. But the... Wait, what? The fatigue and the... Sorry, I don't understand. You mean he's not, like, they had a fake landing pad because he's so strong him in the helicopter we're just yeah we just rip off yeah um but yeah it's like his his like acting of that strain because he needed to be so cut and jacked for that uh like

he was passing out and it's like these are the lengths in which men are going to to proceed and the rock is also duane johnson is also really really good at the rock johnson duane the rock johnson um is really good at i remember during i think it was hobson shaw in like the final fight also holding a helicopter yes um but i think in the final fight he's like he's shirtless in it and in the rain and whatever and he he walks through like i remember watching on instagram being like here are the things that i've done yeah in order to to look this way for this scene and i thought it was really interesting to be like oh cool here's a guy who's like whole career really is based on being like just absolutely a monster of a man

being like the kind of boy you'd slam off a small boy yeah and him being like this isn't what i look like yeah like even though i'm a jacked super fit man like the amount of work that i had to put in to look this way on camera yes is versus the fact that he is a very but very fit person but if you didn't catch him on camera, he would probably look more like Mr. Kelsey on the beach. Exactly. Which again, don't be a fucking piece of shit.

Yeah. Let us be also for the guys out there that is unrealistic and not even in like a, you probably can't get there. You can't get there. If you have six to seven months of fucking as Rob McElhenney put it, a studio paying for it because it's money, it's time,

it's effort. It's all these things that most people just cannot do. paying for it because it's money, it's time, it's effort. It's all these things that most people just cannot do. Yeah. I mean, during the, during the pandemic, I was working out five days a week because I had the time to do it. I was lifting weights five days a week.

I was going on like two to four to 5k runs every other day. I did the opposite. I got chunky, but the thing is, it's like i that was that was a really big eye-opener for me in terms of by the end of it it's like i'd slimmed down i'd lost weight i could see my abs again but i wasn't fucking jacked i wasn't shredded i wasn't toned yeah there's almost like that that feeling that like oh if you just did a bit like if you went to the gym once or twice a week or like,

you know, you get there. We're like, Oh, you stopped drinking beer as much or no. Like that's the thing. You need to do an unholy, insane amount of shit to get there,

but that doesn't matter. And it's not too, and like, I, it was, it was funny. Cause like during this time, a lot of people were like,

you can't look X amount of way without steroids, without whatever, whatever, whatever, you know what look X amount of way without steroids, without whatever, whatever, whatever, you know what I mean? Like, and I think there is, there's truth to that.

You know what I mean? Like there is absolute truth. Like almost all the people who like are like, Oh, I got this way naturally. I got this way, whatever. It's like,

Oh, three years later, I've been on steroids the whole time. Yeah. Um, so, but I also don't want to disparage people who like a lot of, like they've worked

for a body that they've got. No, that's great. By all means. But like, that's not like, if you ask them what they've done, it is not a averagely sustainable thing, right? Like if you're a fitness influencer, the chances are is like, you're probably not going out for wing nights with the boys and crushing some beers every other weekend.

Right? Like chances are, or you just are lucky genetically. Yeah. Or you have the money and time to be able to go to the gym and it's like, there are a million different paths and it is fine if you're shredded and you look great. That's wonderful.

Good for you. It isn't fine if you're not and you think you need to look like that and you don't understand that the gap between where you are and where you want to be is essentially impossible and it's also not fine if you expect men to look like this impossible yeah like standard and it's also not fine is if you look this impossible standard and you lie about or you've gone like you've you've done things to hurt yourself in order to get there like dehydrating yourself and starving yourself right like we shouldn't have to enable eating disorders yes you know what i mean like in fact we should do the opposite and of course this all stands for women as well. I hope everyone understands that, but I'm going to say it anyway.

You know, it's the same for women. Yes. And like, the thing is, it's like, it's been great to watch these campaigns from big companies. Yeah. And I understand there's a little bit of like,

it's capitalism. Yeah. Like, Oh look, we're doing positive wink by our products. Yeah. But like, I'll take that over.

That's the thing. I, I never understood it. I remember going to like media study courses when I was young, like when I was in high school and then being like, here's the thing. I was like, sure.

Like, yes, I understand that a woman is being objectified there, but like, if you just direct your gaze slightly to the left, you'll see a man with a giant bulge and chiseled abs and absolutely handsome and a rock, you know, like a chiseled jawline. I was like, I don't look like that, dude. So I don't understand why we're ignoring his presence in this image when we're talking about the pressure that that woman is putting on women.

What the fuck is that dude doing to me? And the amount of times I was asked to leave a classroom once because i brought it up and it's like there's this weird they weren't equipped to talk about this 10 years or 20 years ago you know yeah which sucks and they're still not necessarily you know there's this weird knee-jerk reaction to whenever a dude like sort of points out being like this would be unacceptable if it was a woman or this makes me feel shit being like yeah but what about women though yeah and it seems to be a weird knee-jerk reaction and it's just like i'm not trying like at no point me saying that doesn't take away from this in any way in fact it is actually the same fight and yes that's what i'm saying it's like it's putting us on the same

page right like it's it's not two different books it's literally this as you said the same fight yeah and also like a lot of the shitty men who aren't for the women's side in this cause probably would be more so if anyone looked at their cause you know what i mean yeah so i feel like the people who are the shittiest like the incels and whatever they're so battered down and bruised from like toxic masculinity and the patriarchy and everything they just don't know what to do with it and they're like women that's like well no but if somebody was like on their side in a way in this way i think they would have more empathy for the other side yeah not that there is another side but anyway we are definitely on the side of women

as well and we agree everything we've said stands for that too. But like growing up as a guy, it's like, you're fucked because you're too light. You're too heavy. You're too much. Like you're too tall. You're too short. Like it's really hard.

Whereas like, cause I remember feeling very, I was a very skinny team. I was also very skinny when I was younger too. Like I was, I was tiny. I think as a girl, it was like,

no one's like, Oh, you need to put more weight on. You're meant to be skinny. Right. Whereas as a guy, everyone's like, oh, you need to put more weight on. You're meant to be skinny, right? Whereas as a guy, everyone was like, oh, what do you weigh? Really? What do you weigh? Oh, only this?

And you're just like, fuck. But then the big guys as well, it's like, oh, you're too much. Yeah. So it's like there's this weird middle band you had to hit. Whereas I think for women, it was just like you had to just be the lowest, which again, awful. Yeah. Like I'm not saying it isn't, but yeah, it was,

yeah, it's tough. And it's like, also the way that, uh, women perceive men is, is in a different way in terms of like, uh,

media consumption. Right. Whereas like, for the most part, men are kind of like just shoved were shoved like a certain body time we're like this is attractive like in the 90s it was like the rail thin no but super super super thin like supermodels being like this is what you find attractive and then everyone was just like men are shit because they find this attractive it's like I don't think any dude really finds like the average, like what we're being told is hot, hot on like a full scale.

Right. Like there was, and then like, you know, once we got into sort of the two thousands when it was like, oh, now we like thick women. Now, you know, like people like Beyonce was coming. Butts are allowed. Yes. You're right. Like, and then we started getting like people where it's like oh this is hot it's like kim kardashian is hot and it's like great like why are like and then all the sort of like

vitriol would then get like dumped on men being like this is what men want it's like i don't know if it is i'm not i'm not sure this is what we want it's like you're just saying that it is and like we all have much like everybody else our own personal yeah like our own personal preference of sort of a body type or whatever and like sure there are people who are susceptible to that kind of like training and focus and stuff if it's all you're being blasted too right but it's also the same way like i grew up with predominantly friends who are women and growing up, it was just like, all I was ever told was like,

that person is hot because of this. And like, and then like, you try to like look kind of like them, but then they would no longer be hot. And you know, it's like, it was,

it was almost like a reverse cycle of being like the media was telling everyone that this is what men wanted. Meanwhile, all of your friends who are female were also telling you that like the opposite is what they wanted it was it was such a weird thing to like grow up in and be just being like i don't know anything like i'm so confused on all fronts like i'm being told this is attractive but i don't really find that attractive this is what i find attractive and i'm being told it's not attractive and also i'm being told i'm not attractive because i don't look like this but everyone who doesn't want this they want that and she's like where am i you know it's weird i don't think like the men that have been put

forward as being attractive have really changed much no like at all no i think it's just like generally rich well built the the jawline jawline like tall yeah tall jawline like that's kind of it and it hasn't changed no if you if you're right like there's been like oh these are the women oh wait these are the women these are the women now and it's like there's kind of been this like up and down and this change but like men have kind of stayed the same yeah i don't know if that's better or worse i mean yeah it's like if you look at like still unattainable it's like hey b666 right yeah like if you look at like marlon brando and compare him to like young marlon brando and compare him to like chris evans yeah like really they're like there isn't a whole lot of change and there hasn't been

like there was that brief spike of like people being like we're into dad bods but even like the dad bod thing is like the dad buds they point out aren't dad they're just like average guys oh yeah i'm a father i'm pretty shredded but i got a little bit of meat. It's like, no, that's not it. It's like you're off. It's like Leonardo DiCaprio in between movies. Which actors have had a dad bod? Right? In any way. Like, no action movies, no

romantic leads, no like Thor, I guess. Yeah. But like, apart from like, oh look, there's a quaint old movie about like a hometown guy. And even then, like no one's had like a belly. Yeah. And that's insane.

We all got bellies. Yeah. You know, we're like half an hour. This triggered us, guys. It started as a joke. And then we. Yeah. Do we even go to questions at this point?

I mean, I guess we should probably at questions at this point i i mean i guess we should probably at some point right yeah i guess um you know what's funny so no fuck this i'm gonna keep talking okay yeah uh so when i was a kid i was very skinny uh i also didn't like get taller until like a little bit later and that was always very i always felt very insecure about especially my weight like i always felt like i was way lighter than everybody and like muscle meant mass meant heaviness right so it's like someone who was whatever was like strong and i was not because there's only like 10 stone so i remember just like some of us didn't grow up in the medieval times. I believe 140 pounds. Okay.

Thank you. So I was like 140 pounds for like a long time from like when I was like 13 till like 18, 19 and maybe even longer. And it wasn't until probably the last three or four years that I started to like gain weight. And I went from 140 to like, I was like 210 pounds. So like, especially after COVID where, as I said, I did get a little chunky because I, I don't know what it was. I just could not work out. I just, I was stuck at home and I was like,

I was doing a lot of work. Like I was writing a lot. I was doing a bunch of podcasting, but like there was just something about where like my day-to-day is very active like i cycle over 100 kilometers a week you know what i mean i'm on my feet like 20 000 steps a day but like when i had no like it's all very natural inbuilt to my day and like rock climbing but then when i wasn't doing those things i found it really hard for me it was if it was like an opportunity to be like i finally have the time to see if what i want to do with my body is possible yeah right so i was just like i'm gonna work out five days a week i'm gonna work out intense i'm gonna run a lot i'm gonna eat well and i was like because if i can't do it now

there's no way i'm going to do it ever. Right. And that was a really cathartic experience of being like, oh, that dream of like pulling my shirt off out of a, you know, dripping wet and being fucking jacked. It's not going to happen.

I like, I will not be able to achieve that unless you join the Patreon. And I don't know what it was i don't know if it was because i i really like it's funny where like i almost did that in a different way where like i want to be a writer and i had just gotten a full request off the agency that represents stephen king so like my whole thing was like this is my chance i'm not working so i'm gonna make writing my my my job and then you throw it like nine to five mom's spaghetti all over you yeah yeah it was my one shot i did i did miss my chance to blow which sucks m them didn't do a rap about when you do miss your chance

to blow um and you still vomited so it's the worst of both worlds yeah um no and like i i put stuff into that but like i just i don't know what it was i just could not work out it sucked yeah i put on a bunch of weight you know what i mean and then i went from this this world where i was like oh no i'm so skinny i need to put on stuff to like being like heavier and it's like that didn't fix anything this sucks and then being really like oh shit i need to lose weight and that took me so long even when i went back to work and i was cycling again hundreds of not hundreds but over 100 kilometers a week and doing all this shit and like it took me a long time to get back to what i felt was like comfortable or like not, not a constant source of like massive shame and

like, I mean, I'm resentment. Like I hated the way I looked, you know what I mean? And it wasn't too different to how I look now. That could be a good or a bad thing in my head. That's a bad thing, but like it, it was fucked. And it's like that, that's the shit like that gets you. It's like, that shouldn't bother me. It shouldn't stay with me. You know what like, that's the shit. Like, that gets you. It's like, that shouldn't bother me. It shouldn't stay with me. You know what I mean? But it did. Yeah, I'm probably the heaviest I've ever been.

And probably also the most uncomfortable in my body that I've ever been. Despite the fact that, like, once again, like, I have an incredible partner who gives me probably the most reassurance and validation in terms of like i think you look great thank you i know that also means nothing when you look at yourself in the mirror but i would hope it would be like a little inch because i think i looked at myself so much worse but maybe you guys are all like yeah he looks like shit you know but like i felt like shit i know really did and that's the thing it's like i i think that and i don't know again we can only speak on sort of like the the male experience and the you know the the experience and i'd be really really interested so if you're a lady or or someone who identifies

as a lady if this is something that you also experience and feel of being like despite the fact that everyone's like you look great you know and you and you're paid a bunch of compliments that you don't we know we know that's the fact though right like um you know it's like i i get a lot of validation i get a lot of compliments and i and my partner makes me feel very very good about my body um and that is something i'm not really used to not to say that like anyone made me feel bad about my body. Um, and that is something I'm not really used to. Not to say that like anyone made me feel bad about my body, but it was never really something that was consistently complimented. Right. Like I, we talk about a lot. There's, there's sort of like a compliment drought for men. Um, and my partner is, is, is very, very good at, at paying me compliments. And it's one

of those things where I was like, Oh, words of affirmation is definitely a love language for me. It is, it's really changed sort of like a, sort of a dynamic part of me that's like, oh, that's nice. Like, you know, but there is, like you said, like there's, despite, you know, everyone in the world could come up to me and be like, you look great.

I wouldn't change a thing about you. Like, you know. There's only so much I could do. I think like you need it and it's good and the more of it the better you know what i mean but like there's always gonna be that shitty part of you that doesn't believe it and that shitty part of you that thinks they're just being nice and whatever and even if they do it's it really matters what you think yeah you know and yes you can change how you think eventually yeah and like i think it comes down to like also a part of like being happy and comfortable right like for me right now i i i put on stuff and i'm just like and and it's it's part it's very difficult to find clothes that make me

feel good um i've recently adopted sort of a much looser style of clothing uh and that's that's made a big difference but it's like i put on a t-shirt and i'm just like yeah dude there were a lot of t-shirts i've retired during during that and like it's funny because you'd almost go out and like sometimes you just like forget it which is nice yeah and then you'd see a picture from that night and you're like oh my yeah good god christ like there were ones from karaoke i was just like cool i'm just gonna jump in front of a bus thank you very much there ones are like we went out one of my friends got engaged in england and then came back i went out like a winery tour and like i saw a picture i was like jesus fuck like yeah and i've never like it's funny because even when i was like damn i'm so skinny i need to like not be skinny and

put on weight and it just never would work or happen at least i was i guess maybe used to myself at that point so like i didn't hate like i hated pictures in a what i think was like a normal way yeah like no one's like i'm amazing yes yeah model right there um but it like it got to like a really upsetting like oh god i was disgusted you know i'm like for a long time like i hated pictures felt very uncomfortable like everything about myself it sucked yeah it was it's difficult especially yeah like i agree where like you see pictures and you're like you feel sort of an immediate like that's not me yeah is is that what i look like people think or see me yeah is that like sort of like the and it's tough to to reconcile with like going back to sort of like the original point of being like it's tough to reconcile with the idea of like

when someone like travis kel, who is in shape, very fit, very athletic, very whatever. Well, and that's being called like being like body shamed and being called a dad bod. It's like, if that's a dad,

but like, what the fuck is my bod? And also like, what are the people like? And again, I'm very lucky to have the reassurance of a partner and friends. And you know what I mean? Like I have a support system of people who make me feel not bad.

Yeah. But like for people who are overweight or obese or, or struggling with a, a body image to the point of mental illness, to the point of like a mental risk, like it, it just it blows my mind that someone would sit down and like type an article and like yeah it's fucking disgusting good about that i assume they don't but maybe they do yeah and the fact that like

like it sucks sometimes you gotta do a job for money. But at some point in this chain, whether it be that person which, like, look. But even still, capitalism, like, how are you not smart enough to know that, like, criticizing someone's body, especially someone as sort of, like, neutral or good. Maybe that's the point.

The point is either you get the people that agree or, more likely, you get the people that cause a furor and then a million people click your fucking link. Like, I don't know. But why not? Like, again, coming from like a capitalistic standpoint, why not be like, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to fucking flip it around and be like. Finally, like, it's nice to see couples like just existing. I think that's actually I'm going gonna make a little comparison with our podcast right

here i think a lot of the sex and dating advice shit that goes viral or does well is bullshit because it's inflammatory so the people who no offense want a simple answer are like hell yes and the people who are a little bit more critically minded are like, what are you doing? But the combination of that shoots you right to the top. True. We could do that. We like to not give bullshit answers. And I don't think that's very satisfying for a lot of people.

Yeah. I mean, it's certainly not marketable. Right? Like, I think it should be. Yeah. And I think, like, that's the reason why we don't have flashes in the pan. Right? We have constant growth. We have really, like, every single listener we have is in the pan. We have constant growth. We have really...

Every single listener we have is cool. We've never had an issue. So that's great. You guys are all fucking legends. I'll say that now. But if you're still here after this entire episode, we're not going to talk about anything but this issue, which is important, but...

It is important. We did read the whole... This week on, it's, you know it is important we did the whole this week on yeah it's you know what let's do those questions on the patreon yeah or do we try to squeak do we rapid fire them just so we're not disappointing in 10 minutes i i think we could do it mine are pretty in depth okay mine aren't really or maybe they're not now my one of them definitely yeah okay that's fair um maybe those should just be a short episode where we talk about the the reveal that in fact hey i don't know if you know this and i'm not sure if you're aware of this and i don't know if you're ready for it

but men have a crippling amount of insecurity yes a an insane amount of insecurities and it's something that we struggle with on a day-to-day basis and often quite quietly yes because we're also not really allowed say it yeah in in a lot of ways in the way we're like men aren't allowed to be emotional men aren't allowed to be vulnerable it feels shitty to say them like i've never told anybody that i felt like shit about my body really kind of my partner yeah that's about it yeah like i've been struggling with that since going for a long time this is pretty much the only time i brought it up you know what i mean um that sucks yes you know and like part of it is like i was like oh i can deal with it but it's like should i should i yes you know what i mean like I think that's I think that

I'm sure like you've probably noticed me saying like I don't like the picture or like just subtle things but like I don't know and it's dumb but like that's I think that's like quintessentially like the male experience or like the healthy male experience of being like

I can deal with it but should I is is I think that's kind of like our motto of being like i can deal with it but should i is is i think that it's kind of like our motto of being like here there is there's a significant challenge that i'm facing right now whether it be physical or mental or emotional and us immediately defaulting to i have to do this alone yeah until it's until i've reached critical mass or like, or I deal with it. Yes. Right. It's like, it's, it's, I hit zero. I hit a hundred. Like it becomes a real problem or I guess I eventually get over that hump. Yeah. And then it sucks because like, what helps you deal with things is support. Yeah. And if you don't share the load and like,

it sucks because did I deal with it? Yes. Yeah. But should I have to know if I had been more open about it? Would I have been easier to deal with? Yes. Do I do a podcast saying that people shouldn't do what I did all the time? Yes. I mean, but yeah.

And that's why we have the show, right? Like we were trying to normalize the, the behavior and the the the challenges of not just dudes but like everyone yes faces of talking communication bringing things up um i i think there's a specific challenge for men to to do those things uh because like you said like we we are taught at a very young age, whether it's intentional or avert or not. Like I grew up in a very supportive house. Like my parents were always

very encouraging of, of emotional discussions and stuff. Like I was very lucky. And I also grew up around, like I said, like the majority of my friends were women so they were always very okay with me being emotional yeah uh because i wasn't a sexual or romantic partner or like a you're right like i was i was one of them um i don't know if i could say the same in terms of like my family's not but i feel like a lot of men like and even still like under those circumstances, under those, like incredibly, what I would imagine are fairly rare circumstances. Yeah. And even that's still hard.

It's still very, very difficult. Like, like social pressure is this weird God just kind of like morphing you into this thing. And like, you can't escape it. You know, I just like,

I want to say to everybody listening maybe especially the men but it doesn't have to be yeah we're like i hope you know we love the women too i hope you know we feel the pain of the other side of the struggle and it's not just two sides there are a million sides you know this but if you just because you can deal with something doesn't mean you should yes you know what I mean? Even if you're like, cool, I can suffer a few months,

few weeks, few years. I'll be all right. Just because you can. Yeah. You know? And that's something I'm very guilty of all the fucking time. You know?

Because it's like, we haven't normalized it yet. Right. And it's like the more we, and there's almost like a pride in doing it, which like, yeah, I mean, I mean, mean like that but like it it shouldn't like you're letting the shit parts of life win when you do that like you're dealing you're shouldering a load you shouldn't have to shoulder by yourself i've just like to what i've what i've tried to do is i try to give myself

like depending on the circumstances and depending how serious the situation is i try to give myself like, depending on the circumstances and depending on how serious the situation is, I try to give myself a couple, like, like a timeframe of being like, I'm going to work through it for this amount of time by myself, because sometimes you do need to do a bunch of self-reflection. Right. And I strongly believe that the first step in success is analyzing your situation and the things that you've done and the you know i mean like regardless of what it is and being like okay i realize i overreacted here or maybe i'm insecure because of this reason and like it or it helps inform your next steps yes and if you then do seek help at least you can be informative yes you can be like hey here's where here's the sitch because i don't want to be like help me how i don't know i don't know what's going on i don't

know what's up yeah exactly like that's that's specifically what my concern is right like i never want to go to someone with a problem or express a problem and someone's like why do you feel that way i don't know how can i help i don't know that doesn't help anyone right and then like chances are i'm going to get really insecure about it and then probably never bring it up again. Well, that's the thing. You're going to be way more insecure if you don't know how to express

your shit. Yeah. Or like they might say something which won't be their fault. That might not be helpful because they don't know what's going on. Then you're like, fuck it. I'm out. Yeah.

So I like to do, I like to be like, okay, if it's a smaller thing, like a couple of days, if it's a bigger thing, whatever. And I'll sort of like set a timeframe and be like, if by X amount of time, I haven't sort of figured it out, I'll probably go to like you guys, right? Like I'll, I'll go to, I'll go to my, my boys first, my friends, my best friends,

my closest friends or a partner and sort of like figure it out. If it's someone, if it's a problem regarding someone specific i'll probably go to them first and be like great here's what i've come up with here's here's how i feel here's what i've come up with here's what i've determined i need help um and it's thankfully like there's a lot of time where like things just kind of heal naturally in terms of like people will pick up on stuff and i will be able to process stuff and i'll be like okay i understand why i feel this way and it's like you don't really need to go much further than that but i think there's a lot of people who don't have the tools that i have like i've benefited greatly from doing this show of being

like being empathetic and putting myself in the shoes of hundreds of problems at this point in time right of being like there's also like a weird honesty where like we come in here and it's like we just talked about a thing i haven't talked about you know and it's like i didn't second guess or question it because when we come in here we're always honest like yeah maybe to a fault maybe we talk about shit we shouldn But like, there would be no point doing the podcast otherwise. Yeah. I mean, like, again, we this was not something we planned. Like, we did not read out the questions we were going to do.

Yeah. And it's 44 minutes later. We fully intended to do a show the way that we always do a show. But then, you know, things struck. I spent time earlier getting the questions together. And yeah. Yeah. you know things struck i spent i spent time earlier getting the questions together and yeah yeah uh so it's it's it's one of those things where it's like you know i've i've benefited greatly from doing the show of being like like i said empathetic and putting myself in the shoes of things so it's like i can then pull on the experiences and hopefully use the

advice that i've given and be like that i would be a hypocrite or I would be an asshole if I didn't do X, Y, and Z. I will say thinking that is one of the most powerful things. I love it. I love being like, I have given this advice or like I would tell somebody else to do this. So I can't not because it's very easy to give advice. Yeah. It's a lot easier to look at people's situations and deal with it, you know, emotionlessly. Yeah. And logically and healthily when you're in that situation, far harder. Yeah. So to be able to do that and then be like, if I then ignored the advice that I would give myself, I would be an asshole or a hypocrite.

And I hate being those two things. Yes. So it's good those two things. Yes. So it's good. Then you, you do it. I mean, I remember there were times in like my previous relationship where they would get very upset with me and be like,

don't podcast me right now. And it's like, Oh, I'm sorry. Was I healthy and funny and successful? Yeah. And I was just like, I was like,

that's not what I'm trying to do here but at the same time it's like i have to i have to not be a complete sham right if i want to justify trying to help people and you did it we did it we've come full circle. I dropped my phone in person recording. Like if I, if I don't try to solve a problem in the way that I tell people to solve problems, or if I don't, if I don't identify and communicate the way that I tell people should communicate,

that's fucked up. But like, I like to think that we are positive and give good advice and Hey, a lot of people have said so. Yes. So it's like, if it's like, don't podcast or like shit, I got to give bad advice. And Hey, a lot of people have said so. Yes. So it's like, if it's like, don't podcast or like shit,

I gotta give bad advice. I can be an asshole. Yeah. Fine. Fuck you. Like now. Yeah. And it's like,

that's, that was a fun, like, I mean, not fun at the time, but like looking back now being like, Oh yes. You know,

I, I've learned probably just as much as I've taught in, in this, in this whole thing that we've done. And it's been a huge growth experiment and exercise. But I think at the end of the day, we need to acknowledge that there's a certain challenge that we all face and again we're dudes so we can only speak on sort of like the male experience um but there's there's a certain challenge when it comes to being vulnerable and there's a certain challenge when it comes to addressing things that there is no normalization or uh prevalence or you know any any kind of like trying to think even a nod towards right try to think of any mainstream campaign that has celebrated the

average male body or like and i know a lot of people and i was this is something i was struggling with a while ago where it was like if you look at like all the sitcoms generally very average man sure with an attractive wife kind of situation right well and like a lot of people raise this point it's like most comedy movies or movies in general are like you know adam sandler who's he dating yeah jennifer aniston hottest person around yeah but like like there's no celebration of who they are it's just like main character gets girl which is an issue a different issue it's also sort of the like part of the joke. Yes. As well. Right. And it's also like you look at these things and you're like, sure,

but you're just feeding into the male fantasy of a perfect life. Yes. Which isn't reality, which isn't normalcy, which has led to things like the red pill, which has led to incel where people are like, but I grew up thinking that all i have to do is just exist and it's like sure i'm a blundering oaf sure i'm an idiot sure i'm insensitive sure i have

super conservative views or whatever and like i still get the hot wife who dotes on me and i still get the kids and i still you know what i mean it's like yeah and there's this idea of like being like thinking that normal or like what is normal is what's normal which is not the case well even like look at avengers it's like that shit's pretty positive and pretty inclusive and they still played thor for jokes yeah there was never any positive ending to that or any positivity around it right people were like i'm pretty sure rock is just like it looks like shit yeah and that's it and it's like he just does this thing and then i think is like i'm shredded again you're like great yeah i remember that i think it did i think like

a beginning of love and thunder i think they're still working out or whatever to lose his weight cool it's like all right cool yeah like you you exist in two states and it's hot god or disgusting mess yeah great thank you or punchline yeah i appreciate it all the men salute you for that yeah so it's it's i guess at the end of the day what we're trying to say is taylor swift is a giraffe. Like, we shouldn't comment on people's bodies, right? Oh. Oh, no. Oh, no. Did we learn a lesson?

Did we learn a lesson? No. We love Taylor Swift. That's obviously a joke. Yes. Also, giraffes are cool. Travis Kelsey. Sorry.

Not from us. We didn't comment on your body. You look fine. I want to reach out to the dudes here. not from us. We didn't comment on your body. And at the end, we also like, I want to reach out to the dudes here and I want to reach out to the people who may love a dude or know a dude or is friends with the dude. It's a compliment your dudes and, and that's just compliment. But also when they finally have the bravery to be vulnerable, don't make them feel bad about it.

Yeah. Or like skate past it either. Yes. Let them be vulnerable. Normalize male vulnerability. Yeah. Normalize male insecurity. Mm-hmm.

Let us take up space in that area. And definitely don't just definitely like, don't, don't just be like, what about women? Cause if they suck, I'm sorry, but they probably don't suck. And if they're just talking about their experience,

that doesn't have to negate a woman's much. Like if a woman said, man, it sucks that the media wants me to do X, Y, and Z. And I was like, what about men?

That would suck. Yes. Right. So it's like, we can men? That would suck. Yes. Right? So it's like, we can all have issues. We're not the enemy. Yeah. I think it's one of those things where it's like, we need to realize that this is a united front. Yes.

Where men, if a man admits to you that they feel like shit because of societal norms, it is you like that's that's an ally that's him agreeing with you even if he doesn't know it yeah it's like that that is a potential ally that you you have won yes and all you need to do is is listen for a second and be like yeah also like if you're dealing with the same shit you should be like like, yeah, yeah. Like that's, that's the thing. It's like, it kills me when people are like, oh,

I'm hurt by this. I'm hurt by this too. Fuck you. What about me? It's like, God damn it. Like, yeah,

you know, like obviously if they're invalidating your experience, that's a different, that's a different thing. If they're like, no, only men feel this, then they're a fucking idiot.

Right. But by saying only women feel this, that's not great either. And let me tell you, there are plenty of statistics out there about male eating disorders. Suicide rates. Suicide rates. There's a lot out there that should inform you that the situation is not good for men. No, it's very dire, but also not in any way talked about pretty much anywhere. Yeah.

So it's, it's like, yeah, like again, I could show you any campaign mainstream on like TV aired on TV, you know, maybe on YouTube. If you show me a campaign that,

that talks about the effect of men's mental health in terms of like body image i can show you i can show you like two campaigns for every one that you do right like easily yeah uh and again not to make this like a pissing contest of misery it's not it's it's a we should all unite not us versus you like yeah we all agree women get fucked by the media constantly yeah all the time that isn't but the thing is we're not if we made a podcast episode about that people would be like yeah duh yes of course but the fact that we made this episode i'm sure some people are gonna be like huh and that's it that's the? Like, so I'm not even going to do a bad sex writing. Yeah. Unless I find one on Matt. No, I won't.

This has been our episode where we don't talk about the things we said we'd talk about. We didn't do a damn thing. No, sorry. Oops. But not sorry. But not sorry. If you want the questions we tease, come to Patreon. Come to Patreon.

I think I'm just going to put them on there. I'm one of them's real fucking funny. Thank you very much for listening. Come to Patreon. I think I'm just going to put them on there. I'm one of them. It's real fucking funny. Thank you very much for listening. We love you. I don't think we've ever done an episode where we've just popped off. No. Before? No.

I didn't think today would be the day. No, I didn't also think. I mean, like we all see Tony Pizza was. Tony Pizza was. I think Tony Pizza crawled so that we could run today. Damn. Thank you very much for listening. It means the world to us. I think Tony pizza crawled so that we could run today. Yeah. Damn. Uh, thank you very much for listening.

It means the world to us. I hope, uh, you have felt either resonated with it or have learned or felt better. Maybe. Yes. And if not fucking reach out, you know?

Yeah. Like we'll fucking big you up, uh, to us or to, to your friends. Like, yeah, take that first step.

I think normally normal normalcy normalcy is the key to fixing a lot of things yes i think making it more common for us to be able to talk about this stuff that's why we do this right yeah like i i think it's it's very very important and hopefully it will make you feel, if this is something you've struggled with, make you be like, oh, cool. I'm not insane. Not just me. Oh, cool.

I'm not broken. Oh, cool. I'm not losing my mind. This is something that more than I have experienced because I promise you. Everybody. It's a universal thing. And I don't know how we ever got to the point

where we just have left men out of the conversation and just been like, no, they're fine fucked yes well i mean it's again patriarchy right we live in a patriarchal society where men need to be upheld as sort of like the strong stoic whatever thing and like that does not help it doesn't help us that's the worst thing is when people are like oh women hate the patriarch is like you, dude. Give me all your grievances. It's it. That's it. Anyway, we love you.

Thank you, Josh Eagle. Josh Eagle. Damn. Josh Eagle and the Harvesties for their song Paper Stars. Put the song in minor key. Yeah, fuck. We should do that. And we love you.

Any gender identity, whoever you are, I'm sure you resonate with us. And we got your back. And we love you. And we need to work together to have each other's back. For sure. For sure. There is no side apart from the us versus them, which is cool people versus shitheads and poor versus rich. Eat the rich.

Eat the rich. Eat the rich, destroy patriarchy, dismantle capitalism. That Eat the rich. Destroy patriarchy. Dismantle capitalism. That's it. Join our Patreon. Join our Patreon. Just capitalism, baby. Hey, join our Patreon until the point where you can eat us.

Yes. That's the thing. If we get to the point where we're so successful on Patreon and podcasting that we have entered into the 1%, I'll happily feed the masses. I'll chop myself up myself. I'll marinate myself. Also, I promise to never sell out. And by

that I mean, if we get rich, we'll get assassinated by Boeing for trying to do good shit. Yeah. Right? Or the people that hung Epstein or whatever. Oh, he was a piece of shit. Yeah, I don't know if we want to... I mean, people will kill us because we'll be like, Oh no,

they're rich, but they're nice. No. And then we're dead. We'll be a threat to the status quo. Yeah. We'll be spies on the inside. We'll fucking take them down.

So join our Patreon and we will take it down. I will fucking, well, Bill Gates is probably fine. Hmm. Musk though. I'll trip him up. Yeah.

I'll fucking clip his ankle at a party and he'll be like, what the fuck? It wasn't me. And I'll wink at Dane and Dane will nod and stab him in the face. And I'll be on the website and I'll be like, change X to Twitter.com. What? Yes. I'll make it back. I'll bring it back.

My name's Dave Miller. And I'm Niles Finn. We've been your fuck buddies and we love you