Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - #116 How to Plan the Post-Lockdown Future of Your Dreams and Coping with Emotions with Dr Tara Swart

Episode Date: June 9, 2020

For many people, lockdown has provided a time for personal development. You may have discovered and worked on new qualities or skills. But I’m very aware that just as many people have found it a really stressful and incredibly busy time. Perhaps you’re a key worker, or a working parent juggling schooling and office hours. Maybe you’re out of work, have lost loved ones, or are in any way struggling to cope. This week’s podcast has a really important message for everyone: be kind to yourself. It’s OK not to have acquired new skills or found enlightenment. I’m delighted to welcome back Dr Tara Swart, a previous guest, whose message I think is more important now than ever. Tara’s impressive list of credentials includes medical doctor, neuroscientist, psychiatrist, lecturer at MIT, business coach and author. Her passion is teaching people how to apply lessons from neuroscience and behavioural psychology – in easy, achievable ways – to enhance their everyday lives and better cope with stress and change. We discuss some really practical, empowering acts of self-care you can easily build into your day – micro habits that can build your resilience to stress. Not all of us have time for 90 minutes of yoga every evening. But Tara explains there is no need to worry - simply lying on your yoga mat for five minutes sends the signal to your brain that you matter and that you are worth looking after. We chat about the value of journaling during the pandemic; how it develops self-awareness and can help our relationships. We also talk about spirituality, vivid dreaming, and how to cope if you’re feeling anxious about the easing of lockdown or uncertain about the future. Finally, Tara talks us through how to create a ‘vision board’ for how we want life to be different after lockdown. Mine is going to include less time travelling, more with my family, whom I’ve come to cherish more than ever during these past months. What would be on your action board? What have you learned about yourself during lockdown – and how do you want that to inform the life you lead going forward? I really hope this conversation helps you to consider that. Show notes available via https://drchatterjee.com/116 Follow me on instagram.com/drchatterjee/ Follow me on facebook.com/DrChatterjee/ Follow me on twitter.com/drchatterjeeuk DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm very concerned about how we're going to readjust when things, you know, go back to how they were or the new normal, whatever that's going to be. I don't think we've paid enough attention to how difficult that might be for people. There could be a mental health crisis under the radar of this and or there could be a spiritual revolution. And actually, you know, there are bits of both. Hi, my name is Rangan Chatterjee. Welcome to Feel Better, Live More. Hello and welcome back to another episode of the podcast. Normal Service is resumed this week. Feedback to last week's special compilation episode on meditation and mindfulness has been absolutely fantastic and my team and I will definitely be trying to put together more shorter compilation episodes like

that over the coming weeks and months. And of course, if there is a particular type of compilation episode that you want, do let me know on social media. So how are you doing this week? on social media. So how are you doing this week? I tell you, for me, one thing I've noticed is that life around me has started to get a little bit busier. Things seem to be returning back to normal, whatever normal now means. The streets have got more people on them, the roads have got more cars, and I wonder, how are you actually feeling about that? You see, many of us have actually started to get used to this new normal of quiet roads, less people, but it is really clear that certainly here in the UK, things are slowly starting to change. Well, to get our heads around this a little bit, I have a fantastic guest today who's actually been featured on the podcast before back on episode 58, Dr. Tara Swartz.

And she has a message that I think is more important now than ever before. medical doctor, neuroscientist, psychiatrist, lecturer at MIT in America, business coach, and best-selling author. Her passion is teaching people how to apply lessons from neuroscience and behavioral psychology in easy and achievable ways to enhance their everyday lives and better cope with stress and change. This conversation took place over Skype a couple of weeks back, just five days after Boris Johnson, the British Prime Minister, made his speech in the UK outlining how he was going to start easing lockdown measures. Now for some people, lockdowns provided a time for personal development. You may have found yourself with more time and with that time worked on new qualities or skills.

But I'm also very aware that just as many people, if not more, have actually found it a really stressful and incredibly busy time. Perhaps you're a key worker or a working parent juggling homeschooling and office hours. Maybe you're out of work. Maybe you've lost loved ones or in some way are struggling to cope. Well, this week's podcast has a really important message for every single one of us. Be kind to yourself. It's okay to not have acquired any new skills or found enlightenment. And on today's conversation, we discuss some really practical empowering acts of self-care that you can easily build into your day, micro habits that can build your resilience to stress. You see, not all of us have got time for 90 minutes of yoga every evening, But Tara says, you don't need to worry.

Simply lying on your mats for five minutes sends the signal to your brain that you matter and that you are worth looking after. We chat about the value of journaling during the pandemic and beyond, how it develops self-awareness and can help us in our relationships. We also talk about spirituality, vivid dreaming, and how to cope if you're feeling anxious about the easing of lockdown or uncertain about the future. And finally, Tara talks us how to create a vision board for how we want life to be different after lockdown. Mine is certainly going to include less time travelling, or I guess to be more specific, I want to be really clear about the purpose of any travel that I may choose to do. I'm also going to consider how I can create more time with my family,

whom I've come to cherish more than ever during this past few months. What do you think might be on your action board? What have you learned about yourself during lockdown and how do you want that to inform the life that you lead going forward? And for those of you who were listening to this conversation sometime after it was released, a vision board can be a really useful way of creating the life that you want to lead, whether it's related to lockdown or not. I really enjoy it whenever I get the chance to speak to Tara, and I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. Now before we get started, I do need to give a quick shout out to some of the sponsors of today's show who are essential

in order for me to continue putting out weekly episodes like this one. Athletic Greens have always been a big supporter of my show and this is a company that I really, really like. They make one of the most nutrient-dense whole food supplements that I've ever come across and I myself take it regularly. This podcast is all about empowering you to become the architect of your own health and of course nutrition is one of the most important pillars of good health. Now ideally everyone would get all of their nutrition from real whole foods. The reality though is that many of us struggle to consistently do that and that is why I like high quality whole food supplements like Athletic Greens.

Many of you have fed back to me that since starting each day with Athletic Greens you have improved so many different aspects of your health such as energy, sleep quality and ability to concentrate. It contains vitamins, minerals, prebiotics and digestive enzymes and I really love their travel packs which often accompany me when I'm on the roads or on the move. So if you're looking to take something each morning as an insurance policy to make sure that you are meeting your nutritional needs, I can highly recommend it. For listeners of the show, if you go to athleticgreens.com forward slash live more, you will be able to access a special offer where you get a free travel pack box containing 20 servings of Athletic Greens,

which is worth around £70 with your first order. You can check it out at athleticgreens.com forward slash live more. Zendium Toothpaste are also sponsoring this week's show. And when we think about immune health, as many of us are at the moment, we often don't think about our mouths, but we should. Because in our mouths, we have part of our body's amazing natural defense, the oral microbiome. Now, Zendium is actually the very first toothpaste brand that I've come across that aims to support the health of the oral microbiome. And since last year, I've been using Zendium toothpaste regularly. I think that as more and more research comes out on the oral microbiome, it's going to become really clear that just like the gut microbiome, it's an important part of our

immune system. Now we're normally used to toothpastes promising to kill the bacteria in our mouths, but Zendium is actually a little bit different. It protects your mouth in a kind of way. It contains natural enzymes and proteins that aim to increase the numbers of good bacteria, which protect your mouth naturally, and reduce bad bacteria to protect it against dental problems. The very best way to try out Zendium is to go onto Amazon and order. That is the online store Amazon, where you can go and order Zendium toothpaste today. Now, on to today's conversation. So Tara, welcome back to the podcast.

It's so lovely to be connected with you, although remotely. After having, you know, you were the first podcast I did when my book came out. And yeah, it's bringing back lots of memories. um after having you know you were the first podcast i did when my book came out and um yeah it's bringing back lots of memories and it's just the whole world is different now right yeah it really is and i i knew i always knew we'd do a part two at some point i was hoping we'd be face to face again but clearly um the the current world situation is not allowing us to do that so we're going to have to use technology for one of its amazing, you know, one of its amazing roles, which is it can help us connect, right? So we're able to have this conversation, Tara. And I remember our conversation really well,

not only because I loved it, but I remember my audience absolutely loved the content in our conversation. So if people are watching this on YouTube or they're listening, if you haven't heard the first conversation I had with Tara, I would highly, highly recommend it. But I know on the back of that Tara, lots of my audience actually bought your book, The Source, and I still get messages about how much people find it useful and are applying a lot of the techniques in there. So thank you very much for agreeing to come back on the show. It's an absolute pleasure. You know, there's a few things we did cover last time. I think we are going to try and

move the conversation on, but I do think it's worth, you know, I do think it's worth retouching on some of them because I think they have a different relevance in the current pandemic and the way many of us are feeling. But let me tell you about one thing I have found really, really useful. I find it useful anyway, but particularly in the pandemic, I found very useful. It's something you spoke about last time and you've written about, and that's journaling. So, I also have written about journaling. I think it's so, so powerful. I think I've heard you say before somewhere that it's one of the most powerful and most impactful things that you do on a regular basis. So, I wonder if you could talk about journaling, why it's so useful, why you find it useful, and actually why in the pandemic it might be a brilliant time to start

if you don't already do so that's such a good point so I remember last time the point of difference that you liked about how I spoke about journaling was that it's not just about downloading your thoughts and your emotions although there's a lot of benefit to doing that to get them off your mind and you know to reduce your stress. But it's about reading back over and charting your sort of emotional journey or your personal development. So everything seems like it's two sides of the coin at the moment. It could be that, you know, you're downloading a lot of negative emotions, conflicts at home, you know, difficult times. But also, it's an opportunity to evolve as a person. So now is a really good time to do it because it's helpful to just download.

But when you look over it, it can help make a lot of sense of things. So one of the models that I'm using at the moment that's really helpful, and it would come up in journaling is, it's an old 1960s psychological model, it's actually related to grief. It's known as the Kubler-Ross grief curve. And it was later remodeled as the change curve and it's used in management and business. And it's basically about any unexpected change, shock, grief that happens to you that you, you know, you didn't choose. You didn't want it to come into your life. So, you know, very relevant now. The emotional journey that we go on as a result of

that and it talks us through shock denial anger depression and then some sort of finding meaning and purpose in it and moving towards acceptance now using a model like that for journaling could could be really really helpful right now. I'm particularly finding that people who are confined in a household, it's so obvious that we don't move through that curve at the same rate necessarily. So, you know, if you're having a down day, if you're feeling like things are really getting on top of you and it's really, you know, at the front of your mind that we don't know how long this is going to go on for. But your wife is in a different part of the curve that can sort of create some kind of tension in the family. And so understanding that and journaling is a great way to do that, to surface that is really helpful because it's likely at the moment we'll go through that curve several times as restrictions get eased. Maybe, you know,

as things change, maybe they go backwards. And each time we can use that model or just our journaling, you know, what we read in our own journal to understand where we are emotionally. Yeah, no, I love that explanation. And one thing I have found myself, but also a lot of people have fed back to me, is that when you journal, often things come out that you didn't even know were there. So, you have these anxieties and these worries that are whirling around your mind. And if you don't have a way to process them, they stay there or they can impact how you feel that day, your stress levels, your relationship, whether you snap at your kids, whether you snap at your partner. And I find that journaling each morning, you know, for me, it's something that, you know,

I get up before everyone else in my house. It's something I've always liked to do. And, you know, I do a bit of a morning routine, but sometimes I'll be sitting there with a cup of coffee or a cup of tea or a hot drink with a journal and I'll just write whatever comes down. I quite like free-form journaling. So, with no set questions I have to answer. I know some people like questions and that's completely fine. But for me, I like free-form journaling. And I think, oh, that obviously was on your mind. You didn't quite realize it was on your mind. So, I think journaling is incredibly useful. But I think the other thing you mentioned there is really, really key. And that's,

well, there was quite a few things you mentioned. One of them is that different people in the same household can be feeling differently about the same problem. And therefore, unless we understand that, this can cause disharmony, this can cause fights between partners, you know, parents and children. And so, yes, having an understanding of that's important, but what can we actually do about that? Yeah, so that's where journaling really comes in. Because if you write down how you're feeling, like, I know you like to do that morning pages then you know just that free form how I'm feeling then when you can reflect afterwards about why maybe a conflict occurred or why you felt like somebody wasn't on the same page as you or they got snappy with you or you got snappy with them you can start to equate whether it's a physical feeling whether

it's just the mood that you wake up in in the morning to a certain emotional state and then if it happens again you can recognize it maybe a bit earlier and maybe not go as far as snapping you know you might say I'm having a bad day I'm feeling the same as I did you know three weeks ago when x happened but you might find some strategies to not snap so you know you may go for a walk um you you can it can help you make the decision between is it the right day to go for a family bike ride or do you need a bit of time to yourself for example yeah that that is so key isn't it because let's talk about parents you know we are both parents we have children in the house with us during this period. And it's something

that can pose some challenges. There can be some wonderful benefits of that, but there can also be a bit less time to ourselves. And I've noticed this with my wife a little bit. Sometimes we will go all out together, the four of us on a bike ride or a walk, where sometimes she'll want me to take the kids so that she can go for a walk herself. And I guess what we're fundamentally talking about is awareness, an awareness of how we're feeling and an awareness of what we need. And, you know, I don't know what you think of this Tara but I think unless you have some degree of solitude in your day some time to reflect in some way whether that's journaling or sitting in the garden staring at the birds I think it's very hard to actually know what's going on in your own body and your own minds? I think it's so interesting that you've picked that up because most people are, you know,

the narrative is, I don't have as much connection as I normally do. You know, some people might be completely on their own, or it might, you know, they might be just a couple. So it's interesting, you said we've both got children, but, you know, I'm a step parent and mine's an adult. And so we're not actually together. So that's a separate a separate concern you know somebody's on their own and are they lonely what's happening to their mental health um so my husband and I find ourselves alone together for the first time since we've you know been married um and it's very easy to focus on not being connected to many friends or other members of the family but it's very interesting how I actually find I really need time to myself, even though I'm only with one other person. And I think people get into a

routine, we sort of naturally, we have all our meals together. But in between that he goes to a study, I work from here. And then at five or six o'clock, we come together to do some exercise. And then it's cooked dinner and, you know, watch something on the TV, basically. So we've got a little routine like that. And one of my friends, because she is homeschooling and working, I said to her, you know, I've just got a husband to look after. You've got a husband, a son, a dog and two cats. And she said, the other day, all of us were sitting on the couch together. And she said, the more time we spend together, the more we want to be together. So, you know, there are so many different experiences of what we're all going through now. Yeah. And I think it's one of those things that possibly isn't getting spoken about enough, maybe because we feel insensitive talking about the possible

upsides of lockdown. But I think it's okay to do that. I think we can recognise on one hand, yes, this is hard. Some people are having their businesses ruined, economic hardship, they're going to lose their jobs, they're being more anxious, mental health problems. Some people are obviously getting hospitalised. You know, people are having loved ones die you know i get it on one hand clearly a lot of negatives but there's always positives that we can take from negative experiences and it's something i guess we touched upon on our first conversation about how you know your divorce, my experience of my bereavement, well, my father dying and how that impacted me has actually caused a lot of changes and a lot of positive changes in our lives on the back of that. So, you know, I think it's okay to say, yeah, it's a hard time, but actually,

you know, on a personal level, I've got to say there have been many positives. I have never spent this much time with my kids and my wife on a consistent basis, you know, and you know what? I realised I love being around them. Like I knew that anyway, but I love it even more. And I think, well, what would life look like if I saw them this much all the time? Can I sort of start to create a life which actually puts that at the heart of it? Yeah, I completely agree with you. And I already said there's two sides to every coin. And so you're absolutely right. You know, there's grief, there's mental health um adjustment issues and you know i'm very concerned about how we're going to readjust when things you know go back to how

they were or the new normal whatever that's going to be i don't think we've paid enough attention to how difficult that might be for people but but you're absolutely right there are you know there's so many positives i've coined a phrase that you know that this there could be a mental health crisis under the radar of this and or there could be a spiritual revolution and actually you know there are bits of both so I've definitely had my ups and downs but I've got such a strong focus on my personal development now what I'm reading I'm doing an online course I'm getting coaching and it's you know in that respect I think it's a wonderful way to look at who you really are. It reminds me of Jon Kabat-Zinn's phrase, wherever you go, there you are. Well, at the moment, there you are all the time, 24-7, you know, you can't get away from yourself.

And so what I've really seen, and I'd love to hear what you've noticed in this respect is, after I got divorced, that's when, you when you know at rock bottom I had a huge realization about my level of determination that it was very very strong and I'd never had a reason to really notice it before but you know when I had to that's what I noticed and now that you know you can't have people coming into the house if you know something breaks like the fridge or the boiler or an electrical switch. All examples of things that I've had to deal with in the last few weeks or months. And normally where you just pick up the phone and get somebody else to deal with it.

Now I'm like, can I change an electrical switch? Or, you know, sort of the fridge drawer broke. I asked my husband to do it and he said, there's something wrong with it. It's impossible. And so I said, oh, I'll have another go. And go and you know and I kept at it till I did it and it sort of reminded me that that determination that I discovered at the worst time of my life is really playing out now and I think it's so interesting to think what's coming to the fore now good and bad you know because there are things that I'm seeing about myself that I hadn't noticed before that people would call shadow work

you know some of these emotions that come up when you're under stress, they're more obvious now than they might be at normal times. So, but I'm taking that as an opportunity to work on those things. And I'm reminding myself, you know, you're so determined, like what can you get done kind of thing. And that's a really good feeling. So it's fine to have both, like you say. Yeah, I guess it's really hammering home that theme of awareness isn't it you you're aware of some of these positive qualities and you're choosing to put your attention on them you're choosing to actually feed your brain that

information that hey look i i am determined i am resourceful. And that really, you know, that really plays into, you know, a lot of the themes that you write about, you talk about how powerful our thoughts are and how important it is that we intentionally put our focus on particular areas. You know, why focus on the negatives? Why not spend our time focusing on the positives? And then that's what we become. And, you know, hearing that, it made me think, you know, this is trivial, right? This is so trivial. But, you know, I, like many busy people, I say busy in inverted commas, because I think busyness is a trap that many of us fall into in the modern world. But a simple thing like, I don't know, like I've cycled a lot more in the last six or seven weeks

than ever frankly for years like every day I'm taking the kids on a bike ride somewhere it's it's brilliant yeah and I realized that I would occasionally get my bike or their bike serviced like I would take it in there's nothing wrong with that but one of their brakes wasn't working the other day and there was an issue and I thought well everything's shut I thought wrong come on you can do this and you know I spent a bit of time figuring out getting the toolkit out and I fixed it and I know it sounds so small but you know what I had such it felt so good I thought oh I'm I'm able to do that it was just a small thing but yeah it really made me feel good yeah it's it's it is I totally get it because when I had to phone up the electrical company about this

switch I was it you know I described the problem he said it sounds like it's a switch you know the switch needs to be changed and I was like could I do it and he said well you know it's like for like if you open it up and you see where it is and you change the part, you just put it back to how it was. And I said, I am a scientist. I think I could do it. You know, and it's I've been doing in this personal development work, sort of revisiting some of my childhood. Like, who were you before, you know, sort of school and parental expectation and stuff, you know, molded you into the adult that you became. of school and parental expectation and stuff, you know, molded you into the adult that you became. And one of the first things I ever said, apparently, was when, you know, I was so small that at the age that your parents still brushed your teeth, apparently, I used to often say, I do it, I do it. And that's definitely coming up again. Now I'm feeling just so like, you know, if the

brakes failed on my back, yeah, I definitely would have a go and and I know it would make me feel so good even though it seems like a small thing yeah I mean let's let's be let's be aware that there's be some people listening to this now who'll go look okay I've never been as stressed as I am right now I've got my kids at home I'm trying to work or I'm an intensive care nurse and I'm doing shifts and then I come back and my children are at home and I'm knackered and I see on Instagram that people are learning Chinese and frankly I just want to be able to get through the day so for someone like that who doesn't feel that they've got time you know what would you say to them that they might want to focus on during this period um I've actually so I read a headline that JK Rowling has had come out

and said, you know, all those life coaches who are saying this is the time to learn Chinese or, you know, build your new brand should stop shaming people. And the neuroscience really supports that that that is the case that I think, you know, I'm talking about embedding micro habits I'm not saying learn a new language or you know sort of do lots of things I completely understand what you're saying there are some people that are just under so much pressure and they can't make time for themselves and they you know don't necessarily want to do lots of new things because they don't have the bandwidth in their brain so I think really the answer is be kind to yourself, even if it's just having a bath, you know, maybe with some magnesium salts. Because people who are stressed have high levels of circulating cortisol, the stress hormone,

there's a systemic dryness, you know, you've got dry skin, dry hair, there might be issues with, you know, bowel movements and things. So just paying attention to drinking more water. You know, I've got clients at the moment with kidney stones, because they're, you know, so busy trying to fit everything in, they're not drinking enough water. So I think, like I said, embedding micro habits, doing those small things that, you know, in your busy life, you say, Oh, I wish I could get into the habit of exercising, taking supplements, but you don't do it. Well, now try to focus on those small things that will actually make your brain and your body more able to cope with the stress that you're going through. Yeah, it's all right. I love that advice. And, you know, it just so aligns with what I also stand for. I think micro habits are very much undervalued.

You know, I've been speaking about for the whole year, five minute interventions and how five minutes can make a huge difference. And we all have five minutes, right? We all have five minutes. So if we look at, if we analyze our day and what we've spent time doing, I would challenge most people to say they

don't have five minutes in the day for a bit of self-care, you know. And it could be anything. It could be five minutes of journaling first thing in the morning. It could be last thing at night. It could be just before you have your lunch or your dinner, you do a quick five-minute workout, even less than five minutes, right? I tried to buy some kettlebells, I think, two weeks into lockdown. And frankly, I couldn't find a single one in the entire UK, like nothing. So, I imagine that pretty much every household in the UK at the moment has got some form of home exercise equipment. Now, I don't think you need home exercise equipment, but if you've got a dumbbell or a kettlebell, right, it's like put it in your kitchen or put it in your bedroom so you're always

being visually triggered by it. And even if once a day you pick it up and do five bicep curls on each arm, if that's all you do, that is still self-care. That is still sending a signal to your body saying, you know what? I prioritise myself. I'm a strong human being that's thriving. And we really shouldn't undervalue the value and just how impactful these small micro habits are, especially when you do them consistently. Yeah, I love your, you know, five minutes a day. And, you know, there are like there's 30 or more tips in your book, isn't there? Things that, you know, five minutes a day. And you know, there are like, there's 30 or more tips in your book, isn't there things that you can do for five minutes? My one is, I once, so I keep my yoga mat out in my bedroom, because it's that trigger, you know,

you sort of feel a little bit. A yoga teacher once said to me, when I asked, how do you get into the habit of a daily practice? You don't always have 90 minutes or an hour or even half an hour necessarily. And she said, if you leave your yoga mat out, even if you just lie on it for five minutes, that's a daily practice. If you can do 90 minutes the next day or an hour or whatever, that's more of your practice. But even if you just lie on your mat for five minutes, then you've connected with your yoga mat every day. And last time we talked about self-love, which I think is more important than ever now. And I think even just lying on that mat is telling yourself, I care for myself. I love myself. I'm taking this time because

me being well and whole is important yeah oh my tara it's so amazing to hear you say this and i just want to for people listening to this now just let me just re-emphasize tara is um a medical doctor psychiatrist health coach neuroscientist lecturer at mit executive coach you know i could list that off that the point i'm trying to make is with all your specialist qualification in a number of different fields you're still saying even five minutes a day of lying on a yoga mat has value and i really want people listening to this to really really absorb that and go it really makes a difference so i just want to add to that and say and and you know a lot of um bj fogg professor bj fogg's work uh from stanford on behavior change talks about the importance of tiny habits um

and and really even the point where even if you do one minute, you're still engaging in that. You're still going through the process of creating that habit. Like if you make one or two minutes or even five minutes your goal, if you do one or two minutes, you get your tick. Some days you'll do 10 minutes. Some days you'll do 20 minutes. But on your bad day, still lie on the mat, still do your two minutes or your five minutes. And it takes the pressure off.

I also like what he talks about you've said this before about how emotion also helps us create these habits a positive emotion right so do you do with your clients with your with the people you coach do you talk to them about how to create those positive emotions after they've engaged in habits? Yeah. So the way that the word that I use, but we're talking about the same thing is intention. So it's your intention or desire to do something does make a difference to how likely you are to do it. And then the enjoyment of it also has a different effect on your brain of producing endorphins that make you, you know, they create a sort of motivational pathway where you want to do that activity more so basically choosing something that you enjoy or is really meaningful to you know for me that story of even if you lie on your map

for five minutes your yoga mat for five minutes in my mind that's become associated with self-care and self-love so it means a lot more to me than just lying on my mat for five minutes. And so each person needs to find that thing for themselves because when the intention is that positive and meaningful, you're both more likely to do it and more likely to get more benefit out of it for your brain and your body. So, you know, for example, what I said about the cortisol, which I agree with you, there are lots of positives to, you know, sort of not being as busy as we were not traveling, you know, having more time at home, having more time with your loved ones. But it's still the case that there's this surreal background of something's wrong, you know, that is there, that background anxiety. that is there, that background anxiety. And so doing these things that can also reduce your stress levels. So, you know, taking a bath, lying on your yoga mat, doing yoga, whatever it is for

you that you know is the thing that reduces your stress. I mean, my one is that it's a, you know, a bath with the magnesium salts in because magnesium, you know, it sort of reduces levels of the stress hormone. So if I, you know, if I'm having a really bad day I'll just go straight up to the bath um and you know keeping on top of things like ordering your magnesium salts from Amazon or whatever so that you they're always there um I've just you know it's just triggered me to remember I'm about to run out so even that's an act of self-care remembering to top up the stuff that you need to keep you going when when you're not having a good day but then absolutely focusing on on the good days I mean you know I had a very interesting reflection a couple of weeks ago where

I guess I was probably quite grumpy but I you know wasn't that aware of it but then I woke up one day and I just felt so much more positive and I thought oh okay I had two days where I was not really you know feeling that great what can I learn from it you know how can I make sure it doesn't last as long next time um so I have this really nice practice that I'm doing in the morning now which is as soon as I wake up because as you know um I used to do my meditation on the tube well that's you know I'm not doing that now so as soon as I wake up because as you know um I used to do my meditation on the tube well that's you know not doing that now so as soon as I wake up otherwise I find that I don't do it um that's quite that's a tip I've been helping my clients with saying if something's important to you for your self-care do it first thing in the morning um because there's so many distractions now we're working and we're managing the household and you know those things can get mixed up so I ask myself a question whatever I'm working on at the moment and I ask it to my brain for a logical answer

and then I do some deep breathing and then I place my hands on my heart and I ask it to my heart for an emotional answer and then I do some deep breathing I place my hands on my belly and I ask the same question for an intuitive answer. And that's something I've written about in the book, which I've called harmony, which is that you're aligned in your head, your heart and your gut. And it's fascinating how you get answers, like you said in your journaling, you sometimes write something that you weren't aware of, that you didn't expect. You get answers that were not at the front of your mind if you push it deeper and deeper.

So that's something I've been doing with some of my clients as well. Oh, Tara, that's such a beautiful, such a beautiful image comes with my mind of that, how you just align everything and you ask different parts of you for the answer rather than most of us, often it's just this kind of, you know,

the brain or the emotional brain that's kind of determining what we do and we don't sort of take time to tap into other parts of us to actually tell us and help us to determine what's going on I really really like that you mentioned before that one of one of the things you predict is that we may either have a mental health crisis on the back of this or a spiritual revolution, or more likely a bit of both. Now, I'd love to sort of delve into this a little bit. So, when you say spiritual revolution, I think it's probably worth defining what do you mean by the word spirituality? I think it's probably worth defining what do you mean by the word spirituality? And then we could perhaps go a bit deeper and go, why does the current pandemic lead you to believe that many people might start to access this idea in themselves?

Because I agree. I absolutely agree. Many people are questioning life and where they fit into society and what's their role right so perhaps you could start by just defining what do you mean when you say spirituality that's I don't know whether to answer that or to sort of put it back to your listeners and say you know what it means to you but the way that I you know have described it in the past is that things everything in life can be broken can be can be sort of put into a grid of physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. So physical is obviously what's going on in your body.

And I talk about something that you'll know about, but I just feel that not many people do, which is our sense. You could call it our sixth sense, which is interoception, which is the understanding of the physiological state of the inside of your body so you know your breathing your digestion um the you know the dryness of your skin that kind of thing so what's going on in your body what mental is what's going on in your thoughts and emotional is what's going on in your feelings so sometimes people say what's the difference between those two but you know thoughts are the kind the nature of the thoughts you're having are they negative are they positive um how many thoughts you're having do you feel quite blank or do you feel like you know there's a million thoughts rushing around your head and then the emotions are do you feel sad do you feel angry do you feel angry? Do you feel frightened? Do you feel happy? Do you feel, you know, trust or

love and, you know, the people that you're with are in the process of what's going to happen. And then spiritual is really something that's not explained by those three things. And it's something that you feel in your spirit or your integrity or your values. But I would have to say that during this pandemic, I would add something to that, which is. I did mention it in the book, but I think I wasn't brave enough to go down that spiritual path too much because, you know, I felt that it was about the backing of the science, which is something I've called universal connection so it's either the understanding that we're connected to each other in ways that we either didn't understand before or have chosen not to really acknowledge and also that there's you know there's some greater force that we're also connected to so whether you call it a universal consciousness um carl, the psychologist, talked about the collective unconscious. And that's certainly showing up now in the phenomenon of vivid dreaming.

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in the UK, USA, and Australia. You can get your 20% off code by going to vivobarefoot.com forward slash live more. Have you been experiencing vivid dreams? You know what I think I might have done on a day or two but not really. I think my wife has, I think my kids certainly have. And I know many people out there have been, and you did a really fascinating Instagram posts on this, didn't you about vivid dreaming? Yeah, it's because I've had a vivid dream and it was, it was a strange story. I basically, so what's happening is that because we're, you know, we're in uncertainty, there's usually an anxiety element to these dreams and that makes people think that it's bad, but actually it's very

healthy emotional processing that our brains are doing. So, you know, I thought I was absolutely fine until I had this anxiety dream. And I was like, okay, you know, obviously there's some background anxiety and that's, that's, that's normal. That's fine fine so it's basically in a scary place and um you know couldn't get out and suddenly one of my former coaching clients from years ago appeared in front of me and I was so relieved to see him that I you know ran forward and gave him a hug and then he took me by the hand and he rescued me from this place but as soon as we got outside I said to him but I hugged you and you held my hand and now I'm going to get COVID. And then I woke up thinking like, what a strange dream.

So I came downstairs and I said to my husband, I had this strange dream and this guy was in it. And he, you know, he knows the guy. So I mentioned him by name. And then, as I said, we had breakfast and then he went to a study and I was. And I get a text message. And it's from the guy that was in the dream the night before. I mean, no word of a lie. I checked, he hadn't texted me for three months. And he was just checking in. How are you? And I went around to my husband's study and I said, you are not going to believe who I just had a text message from. He said, I can't imagine. And I said, you know, if I hadn't told you about the dream, if I came to you now and said, I got a text message from this guy and he was in my dream last night, you would have just written that off. But the fact that I had told him and then it happened, I know that's a total anecdote, but it just made me look into this collective unconscious and vivid dreaming.

And it turns out that it's a phenomenon that occurred during both the world wars and the holocaust so you know again that's when all the whole world was involved in something that affected them doesn't matter who you are where you are you're being affected by this global situation um in a you know a way that's anxiety inducing um and then um i looked into it a bit more i used to live and work in Australia. So, you know, I know quite a lot about the Aboriginal dream time. And, you know, that's the concept of the story of creativity and our connectedness to everything and everyone. And I started thinking, well, there's, you know, there's definitely something here. And then two completely

different sets of journalists contacted me to ask for, you know, some sort of neuroscience quotes on vivid, vivid dreaming phenomenon. And, and I got quite a lot of responses to that IGTV, people saying that it's a thing in African culture, Asian cultures. So it's fascinating. Yeah, I mean, I can't, I can't explain it. And I guess that's what spirituality means to me. Something that you feel to be true and important, but you can't necessarily explain. Yeah, I think that's so lovely the way you put that. A couple of things just to pick up on. The first one is, I just want to share that I think one of the reasons I don't dream that much at the moment is I think has to do with

caffeine and I'll explain what I mean by that. So I've, you know, I'm pretty okay with my caffeine consumption at the moment but I've definitely had an up and down relationship with caffeine. It's typically my crutch these days for the past years when the pressure goes up, when I've got deadlines, I tend to drink a bit more coffee than I know is good for me. You know, I know I thrive when I'm drinking less. And I have gone through periods of time where I've completely quit. And I often find when I've done that, after you get over the withdrawal symptoms, sleep is better. And I think I dream more. I really do think I dream more when I'm not on caffeine. So, that's just something that I'm

going to explore a little bit over the next few weeks and months. You know, I'm not, you know, one thing that has changed in me is that a couple of years ago, if I said that to you, Tara, I'd probably be beating myself up a bit about it. Oh, Rangan, how have you got back into that coffee habit again? You know, you shouldn't have done that. But that's not the way I look at it now. bit again, you know, you shouldn't have done that. But that's not the way I look at it now. It's like, oh, okay, you know, I've chosen to do that to help me. A part of me certainly enjoys that coffee ritual in the morning. And I'm okay with it. You know, I really feel my relationship with it has changed. And I think, you know, at some point in the next few weeks and months, I'll probably knock it on its head again and experiment a little bit without it. But I think that's one thing for me anyway. The other thing you mentioned there, which really,

really struck me is this idea that when you wrote the book, you probably backed out a bit, you thought, I'm a neuroscientist, I'm a psychiatrist, I can't be writing about this kind of stuff. And I know that feeling. I know early on in my career, you know, being on TV or being in the public limelight, you know, I'd be very cautious about what I said and how I said, you know, what are people going to think? But I think as I've got more secure in myself over the past years and more comfortable with who I am, I'm less afraid anymore to talk about these things because I think they're important. And I think most people, if they really tap in, like, you know, for some people, you'll really experience it if you're out

for a run or walk in nature, right? And you look at the trees and the water and the birds, yeah, it is pretty wondrous to look at that. And it's hard to actually think, wow, we are living in an absolutely beautiful world. How has this all been created? You know, what is going on here? And I absolutely do find as I'm getting older and as I do more work on myself, I think I'm becoming a lot more spiritual. And I really do believe in this kind of force and energy that connects all of us but even if we want to you know come out of the kind of intuition and what we're feeling even if we use our prefrontal cortex our rational brain to try and explain this which i know you were saying maybe spirituality are things that we we can't explain we know you know what

we know that we are all connected because we're all going through this pandemic together um you know we're all connected in the sense that we it doesn't matter who you are you also may be exposed right you're because we are all connected how another country acts how we act impacts the countries around us you You know, we can't all be reductionists and individual and live in a way that's good for us, that our income, our house, how we're doing. And I think, for me, one of the most beautiful things about the pandemic, and again, I'm not at all minimising the negative impacts on some people, but I do think many of us are feeling that collective consciousness and the idea that, hey, you know what? We are all connected.

We're connected to our family. We're connected to our local communities, maybe our local farmers. It very much changes the narrative, not only around health, but I think around society as well. Yeah, I think it's very interesting who we're connected to now. So there's an exercise in the book called the people tree, which is based on the idea of social contagion. So that, you know, you're sort of the sum of the people that you spend the most time with kind of idea. So I sort of say, draw a tree with five branches, put the names of the five that you spend the most time with kind of idea so I sort of say draw you know a tree with five branches put the names of the five people that you spend most time with or influence you the most and then write down five words about each of those people and then

look at the 25 words and see like how much of that is reflected in you but I what I think is a really interesting twist on that now is now that, you know, you may be isolating with certain people. But who are you keeping in touch with now that you don't you didn't actually used to see that much when you lived your normal life? Who are you not speaking to that you actually used to spend a lot of time with? I think there are some really interesting reflections here. And I mean, for me, I, you know, I was trying to go on a sabbatical that wasn't really working. So when lockdown started, I had actually two or three weeks where I sort of finally got that sabbatical. And then, you know, the need for mental health work became so critical that I felt, you know, that I had to

respond to that because, you know, I can be helpful through through what I you know say and do um so that feels good but when we were on holiday in January I read The Untethered Soul and basically at the end of that they say if you found out that you had a week to live or a year to live what would you do and I had the answer in my my answer in my head and I said to my husband what would you do and he said I'd immediately stop working or going to meetings and I just spend all my time with you well hello that's what's happening now um I mean you know we are both working from home but we work for ourselves so it's pretty flexible um and it's just yeah it's really interesting to think that the things that are actually important to us the people that are actually important to us

we don't attend to those things because we're on this rat race of work and travel and um so so i do you know i agree with you that there is a beauty to be found in this confinement and restriction um and you know i think you know what's what's very inspiring at the moment is is quotes from the likes of victor frankl and nelson mandela about you know confinement and i know you did that amazing podcast that got broadcast to all the prisons um you know perhaps we're connected to prisoners in a way that we never were before because we finally understand what confinement really is there's got to be something good about that yeah absolutely i mean as you were discussing it was really powerful that that idea that

you know if we're asked what we would do we have a week to live live. Often it'll be spend time with our loved ones, but for many of us, that's exactly what we've got. But I will add to that, we've got it, but maybe we're not prioritising it. We don't feel we're able to. So, although we are with them, we're distracted. We think, oh man, I really need to be working. I should be doing this. So, we're not actually being intentional. Like when I'm spending time with my children, let's say need to be working. I should be doing this. So, we're not actually being intentional. Like when I'm spending time with my children, let's say I'm not working. Let's say I'm not, you know, whether it's seeing patients or writing or doing a podcast or whatever it is I might be doing, not to think of that as, oh man, I could be doing this, you know, like, oh man, I'm not getting that done, but you know, I need to spend time with the kids. So, I'm like, hold on a minute,

that done but you know I need to spend time with the kids so I'm like hold on a minute that is valuable time that's not time where you're not working that is the gold like oh wow I'm spending time with my kids now brilliant rather than I'm spending time with them but in the background work's going on I know it's a subtle thing but it's really made a difference because then you don't feel you're wasting time I don't want to at all suggest that I feel time spent with my kids is wasting time I don't but sometimes there's thing oh I've got to get back to my work soon I've got to get back to my work soon now then you're not fully present with what's actually going on and for me I've got to say that's but that's been I don't think I'm overreaching it to say that's been life-changing yeah no I I get what you mean it It's interesting. A funny little thing happened yesterday that

really made me think about, you know, that intention and what's going, what's running in the background about, you know, other things that you have to do is that, you know, I think it's sort of nine o'clock. So, you know, 9pm almost at the end of the day, my husband said, nine o'clock, so 9pm, almost at the end of the day, my husband said, I love you. So I said, I love you. And he said, No, you don't. And I said, Why? And he went, You haven't said it to me today. And I don't even know if we do say it to each other every day. But I sort of thought, no, I wasn't even aware of that. But then I realized it was important to him. And that therefore, that's really's really really important and this morning you know normally I just wake up when I wake up but because I knew I

was meeting you I sort of asked him to bring me a cup of tea at a certain time in bed and he came up to the room and the first thing I said was I love you because I thought you know I don't want to feel like I've neglected something that's important to the most important person in the world, to me. And it's such a tiny thing, but it doesn't take any effort for me to remember to say it. But it's important. And it's important in this strange time where who knows what emotions he was going through on that day, like going back to the change curve. Maybe he was having a, you know, a depression day and I didn't really notice. And so I think, you know, examining your important relationships, examining, are you really living the things that you say are important? Now is the time to do it 100%.

Now is the time to do it, 100%. Yeah, it's so interesting. You know, again, awareness is coming up. It's that awareness of your own feelings, awareness of your partner's feelings, awareness of your children's feelings, whoever it is. And again, it comes back to what we were saying at the beginning. If you don't have a bit of time to yourself, to journal, or just to think, often we're not tapping into how we're feeling. And therefore, it's very hard

for us to tap into how someone else is feeling. So, because of these computers and emails, right, and our phones, and the fact that we can now be contacted each day on WhatsApp and DM on Instagram and DM on Twitter and Facebook and text message and a phone call or whatever else, right? It can be so overwhelming. And, you know, you mentioned that chat with John McAvoy I had recently, the former prisoner who's now a really good friend of mine. And yes, so, so proud that National Prison Radio broadcasts that that to 80 000 prison cells at the start of this week so 80 000 prisoners listening to that conversation which is just incredible yeah but the big thing that was routine right and schedule like how these guys you know how john

got through solitary confinement well just to be clear be clear, for one whole year, he did not leave his prison cell for a year, right? And that was partly him as well, because he refused to. He was almost having an act of rebellion against the system. But I said, how did you cope? He goes, routine. Routine. I needed a schedule. I'd get up, I'd do a workout. Every day. I said, John, did you ever feel a bit demotivated? Did you ever feel, you know up, I'd do a workout. Every day I said, John, did you ever feel a bit demotivated? Did you ever feel, you know what, not going to do it today? He said, yeah, sure I did. But I always did it because I remember how I felt afterwards. And that's what kept him sane. And, you know, trying to bring it full circle again, those micro habits. If all you do

when you wake up is for five minutes, lie on your yoga mat or for five minutes, do some breathing or five minutes, do some journaling. That is a routine. That is you showing yourself on a daily basis. That's what Mandela used to do to get him through. You know, he jogged for 45 minutes on the spot in his prison cell, right? He didn't use the excuse of, I don't have the right running shoes. I don't have a treadmill. I can't go outside. Again, I say that with compassion. I don't say that. I'm not at all talking down to people. I'm saying, look, there's a lot that we can do no matter how challenging our circumstances are. Yeah. I mean, even if it's something like using meal times to create some structure in your day. So like you, I think,

I normally used to practice time-restricted eating, so I wouldn't eat before 12 and I'd finish eating by 8 p.m. What I found in this lockdown is that if I don't have that structure of the three meals a day and us sitting down together to have those meals, that's disruptive for me mentally and emotionally so you know we started having the three meals a day and then at one point I said well I think my husband said actually why don't we have like a later brunch and an earlier supper and just do two meals that was at the time that it was very difficult to get you know grocery shopping and stuff and we did that for one day and I said I can't do this I need that structure of the three meals and so

I'm very curious to see what you know each of us will learn about ourselves from this process because one thing I learned earlier which I'm seeing now is that when I'm under stress I become more OCD than I am normally so you know everything has to be neat and tidy and now that we're doing the housework it's I said to husband, I've discovered that you're not as neat and tidy as I thought you were. And he just said, darling, no one's as neat and tidy as you. And it just really made me realize I'm probably being really OCD at the moment, because when there's something outside that I can't control, I like to kind of like line everything up and have everything really neat and perfect. But I was aware of that from before. So I thought, okay, that's happening, fine. But I'm very,

very curious to see what will I look back on? What will we each look back on from this period of time and say that, you know, it surfaced and it was a new thing that we learned about ourselves. And I would sort of follow on from that and say, for me, one of the other roles of journaling right now is to document that. So, it may not be that you're journaling to get your anxieties and worries and your subconscious thoughts out onto the paper, although of course that can be very valuable. It may also be that you're trying to journal each day, oh man, I've got, I've learned how much I love having three mealtimes each day with my family, or I love the fact that I don't have to commute at the moment.

So actually I can go for a 30 minute walk every morning before I start my day. You know, I saw someone tweeted me the other day to say, um, he just can't believe the difference it's made to his life and his productivity at work, even though he's working from home, when he goes for a half hour walk each morning. I said, I never have time because I'm normally rushing around. I need to get the train and commuting. And he's thinking, well, how can I bring that into my life when this is all over? And I think that's a very valuable question for us all to try and ask, what would we ideally like to bring into our lives when this is over? It doesn't mean we're

going to be able to, I get it. It may be easier for some than others. And although we talked about vision boards last time, Tara, I think people really liked that idea. And I wonder if we could just sort of, because I feel at the moment, if someone's doing that and thinking, oh, I like this, I like that, could they potentially use a vision board here to, you know, put their attention there and maybe increase the chances of that happening at some point in the future? That's actually such a good idea because in a way I was thinking, you know, the vision board that I created in January for 2020, there are simply some things on it that can't happen now. You know, some of them can happen remotely.

So, you know, I think I did say to you last time that doing a podcast with you was on my vision board last year. And, you know, getting to do one with you again is just so wonderful. And, you know, doing more podcasts was on my vision board because, you know, to do one with you again is is um just so wonderful and you know doing more podcasts was on my vision board because you know changed it um so I've sort of been saying to people don't put too much pressure on yourself to you know feel that you need to achieve the visions that you had at the start of the year or you know it may be difficult to create a vision board now but I think you've just hit the nail on the head the vision board could be how I want my life to be different given what I've learned during lockdown so I've actually been collecting images um that I like but they're all very colorful very exotic and I think it's sort of although I will

never travel for work as much as I did ever again that's a promise I've made to myself and I've said it in public now you know I sort of I feel very very lucky that I've traveled as much as I have the pleasure there are a few places that I'd still like to go but I think you know my heart and my spirit or whatever is like longing for these faraway places and these different foods and people that I might you know not get to experience again as much as I have in the past um but I love this idea of using the because you know I call it an action board because it has to be backed up by action of creating an image of the life that you would you know the balanced life that you would

want when things return to you know go but go to however they're going to be and they're not like they are now because one of the things I worried about early on in lockdown is that it would be so easy to just get sucked back into being in that rat race commuting traveling not spending you know quality time with your loved ones or not doing the walking in nature so I think a vision board is you know I'm going to do it after today and also I have to say to you that you said you were going to do a vision board after the last podcast and I haven't seen a picture of it yeah that's a good point I did actually start it but I don't think I finished it so I will tell you what what this morning when I was thinking about chatting to you and I have been thinking and again it's

that sort of accountability by because I knew I'd be talking to you I was thinking okay wrong and if you really do want to change certain aspects of your life afterwards and I'm always thinking at the moment how can I combine what I do with my children and my wife because then we're doing something together so then it's not either spend time with them or work or do personal growth, but, you know, it's kind of like, well, let's do something together. And then I sort of felt, well, maybe, you know, at the weekend or they've got the half term coming up shortly, maybe the four of us together should try and create a vision board and you know they can do whatever they want whatever their focus is I would never want to put that onto them but mine might be what

kind of life do I want to live post lockdown because I like you travel a lot now I think I was very mindful of when I was back spending quality time undistracted time with my family. But yeah, I've realized that maybe I was traveling more than I ideally wanted. So for people, Tara, because we have a lot more listeners now than we did when you first came on the show, which is fantastic. Like someone might be listening going,

vision board, I'm skeptical, right? Number one. And they might also be thinking, well, how do I actually do that so although we did cover some of that last time I always think a little refresher on why a vision or an action board why it can be helpful and how do you actually do it yeah so um the the science behind why it's helpful is that we're bombarded with so much information all the time so you know everything

we read everything we see every person we interact with and even our own emotions and memories and so um there there's a natural process in the brain to selectively filter um what's important to our survival and and selectively put attention onto what's important for us to thrive and then there's also another system in the brain called value tagging, which puts those things in order of importance. And there's a logical element to that, you know, things I need to do today to live and work. And then there's an emotional element to that, which is, you know, spending time with your family and having, you know, feeling comfortable with who you are and, know all that sort of thing that you've already mentioned and so if you create imagery that represents the things like how you want your

life to be post lockdown then you're more likely to notice and grasp opportunities to make that a reality so that's all it is it's not you know it's not as woo-woo as some people you know the skeptics might think it is, it's literally priming your brain to remember what's important. And so ideally it's a collage made by hand, although, you know, I've been getting a lot of DMs from people saying, well, I'm not getting magazines. So how do I do it? And you can do it on Pinterest. There's an app called Corkulous, which is like a cork board. You know, there are ways on google of just generating images of things that you like so what exactly okay so let's just break it down even further so what you've got a

collage okay so you're you've got a piece of paper or some card and what exactly are you wanting or suggesting that people put on it is it just just images? Is it words? How many do you need? You know, I guess I'm asking semi for myself as well, because I've forgotten from last time. And I am going to do it this time. And I am going to text it to you. So yeah. Yeah. So I suggest that you don't use words or numbers. So it's visual imagery, because that tracks to your subconscious more strongly. Also, ideally, that it's visual imagery because that tracks to your subconscious more strongly. Also, ideally that it's metaphorical representations of what you want. So, you know, so a sort of for travel, it could be, you know, just an image of a very exotic place that you like the look of.

For you, it sounds like, you know, that very central on the board would be something to do with the four of you. As you know, as I said last time, if you want a life that's crammed full, then you should have as many images as you can on that piece of card. If you want some space in your life, then the images could be more separate with space between them. It's important which images are touching each other. So where you've said, let's do stuff together together you may find a way to combine work with you know with either with your wife or even with your children doing something with you then you'd want those sections of the board to be near each other um so yeah i mean there's a whole chapter in the book on exactly how to do it where to place it how it works yeah um but it is you know it's like those collages or scrapbooks

that we used to make as children or you know what people call mood boards which is images that you're attracted to images that represent something that you want um I'm honestly going to redo mine based on what you said which is which is about how I'd like my life to look after lockdown because I did have this feeling I feel better about it now but I did have this feeling that I don't 100% trust myself not to just go back to how things were before and I know that I don't want that but I just also realize that it can be very easy for that to happen I mean what sort of came into my mind was when I'd been traveling in Nepal and you know just trekking for days and days and like, you know, sort of eating very simple food and, you know, being very immersed in that Buddhist and Hindu culture. And I remember

I came back and I went into a shop and it was all about, you know, just indulge yourself, buy all these things. And I was quite horrified by it. But what I noticed was that two weeks later, I was quite horrified by it. But what I noticed was that two weeks later, that was completely normal to me. So, you know, we adapt quickly. But I just think that having agency over that adaptation is really important. Yeah, I think that's a great point. It reminds me of, I was chatting to a really good mate of mine, Jeremy, recently, about what are things going to be like afterwards? You know, we can remember all this. And he says, and he loves reading history books. And he said, mate, listen, when all the history books I read seems to suggest that after things like pandemics or wars, people want to forget as

quickly as possible and get back to normal. And obviously, for me, I knowingly don't really know, I don't really have that experience. You know, I didn't live through the wars. I haven't been around during the time of a pandemic. So it feels so real at the moment. I find it hard to believe that we'll forget this. But if we look at history to sort of learn some lessons, it looks as though we very much might do. And that's why I think writing down your thoughts at the moment, maybe if you're so inclined, you know, making an action board, some way of reminding you of some of these key lessons

that you learned and what you want to keep in your life afterwards. I think it's really important. Yeah, I think it's also important to say though that, yeah, I do believe that we've forgotten a lot of the lessons that people must have learned during the wars and the aftermath of that. But if you think about the way that the role of women changed during the wars, so, you know, the men went off to war and women took up jobs that traditionally weren't seen as jobs that women could do, like factory jobs or farming jobs. And so, you know, that changed forever. So, you know, there are some things that have fundamentally changed and never gone back to how they were before.

But, you know, you talk about awareness and I talk about intention. Those two words are key here. Because if we don't set the intention and maintain our awareness we won't be choosing what changes fundamentally forever yeah and i think that really is key and again some people may go you know what i liked my life before i want to go back to that and i don't think any one of us are saying don't do that we're simply saying be intentional with your choices understand that they are choices i certainly hope for most people their choices i i do appreciate that some people have to do things that they don't want to do or certainly feel as though that's their only option but um i think that's a really great lesson um tara i want to i want to sort of finish off by

something we we hinted at a little bit before And I think it's a topic that's worth exploring. And I've got to be honest, I wasn't that aware of it until I had a bit of a team meeting on Monday with various members of my team, people who helped me with the podcast and various things. And, you know, we were just doing this check-in, seeing how everyone's feeling, which is how we always start off. And there was bit of anxiety now that anxiety was around you can remember sunday night as we're recording this conversation on you know five days ago sunday night boris johnson made his speech in the uk about how we may start to ease lockdown measures and a lot of my team and all the people I've spoken to have a

bit of anxiety. They're like, oh, I've sort of got used to this new normal. The thought of going back to life at 90 miles an hour, it's actually causing a lot of anxiety and fear. And, you know, since my awareness got tuned into that because of what they said, it was really interesting that it's not quite related, but as I say, I've been cycling a lot with the kids and my daughter's only seven, but I've been taking her on the roads. It's been like, there's hardly anyone on the roads. I'm trying to teach her and my son, you know, to the same degree about road safety and how you cycle on the roads. And this week, it has been noticeable how much busier the roads are, even though not that much has changed. Mentally, something has changed in society in terms of what we feel, you know,

there is this idea, this widespread belief now that lockdown sort of, now we're on lockdown light compared to what it was anyway. And I was scared yesterday. I was like, oh man, I used to take them on these roads, but cars are going back, going by fast. People are looking at their phones whilst they're driving. And I also thought, oh no, we're getting back to normal. Things are starting to seep back. So I know a lot of people listening to this will be feeling that I wonder if you've got any advice for people who are feeling anxious about society returning back to normal and how they can cope with that yeah it's a really good question and I was asked a different version of that question maybe a month ago which when it didn't look like it was easing you know

people like how long are we going to have to stay like this and I think that it's the perspective that you apply to it that can be really really helpful here so if you were thinking is lockdown going to end next week is it going to be three weeks when are the children going to go back to school is it going to be half term is it going going to be, you know, summer holidays? That creates a lot of anxiety. If you set the goalpost a bit further, so if you tell yourself, I'm not going to think about this for a month, or I think things will only go back to normal in September or October, whatever, you know, whatever you think is, but if you move the goalpost further, then you don't have to, you're not driven to feel as anxious because it's something that's further away. And what that produces is, if you keep thinking, can I go back to normal next week,

and then it doesn't happen, you know, Boris says that's not going to happen, you'll get disappointed. If you put the goalpost further away, then it's likely that you're more likely that you'll get disappointed. If you put the goalpost further away, then it's likely that you're more likely that you'll be pleasantly surprised. So it is about giving yourself perspective. And I have a little exercise that I do when, when I feel that I'm either getting into a rut, or I'm starting to think about something very short term, and it can build up some anxiety, is that I either look at the palm of my hand, or I go outside and I look at a leaf or a flower very close up for a minute which I time on my phone and I look at every detail of it and you know I immerse myself in that for a minute and then I will time the minutes again and I'll look at a really big tree or a building far away

in the distance and I find it really helps my brain go from that short-term anxious mode into the sort of bigger picture you know perspective about this whole situation um so that's that's my little tip for that yeah no I like that a lot I love that I've not heard that that sort of looking at something in the in very close to you like a leaf and then suddenly going to that big wide peripheral view uh that's a really nice there's a nice analogy there isn't there it's it's really yeah i'm definitely going to try that for sure um what you said there actually reminds me of a chat i had just a few days ago a really good friend of mine runs a fitness business uh i won't say too much but she runs a fitness business and, you know,

has been going through some hard times and obviously has not been able to run classes over the past however many weeks it has been now. And was actually saying to me that actually, you know what, I know I've needed a break for ages and actually this is in some way that's been really good because it's given me that break um but I keep sort of deferring I keep saying to people who want me to do online classes I just I just don't want to at the moment I want to just rest and I said are you okay financially she said yeah I'm fine financially I've you know my partner is able to work through this and so we're okay and And she said, oh, I'm going to defer the decision. In a couple of weeks, I'll decide, or maybe in three weeks, I'll decide again. And I said, hey, you know what? If you really know you need this time and financially you're okay,

what would the world look like if you said, you know what? I'm not going to restart till September. And then you're not constantly deferring that decision for two weeks. So that stress is building, oh, then it goes off. Stress is building, then it eases off again. Why not, you know, really take that opportunity to go, if you can, to go, yeah, you know what, I'm not working for the next two months. I'm going to recuperate. I'm going to enjoy my time, walks in nature. And again, to really bring it back to something that happened in my life yesterday. So my wife, she produces this podcast and she works very, very hard on it. And yesterday, you know, she was homeschooling the kids a lot. She was, you know, she was super busy and she was getting, you know, mid-afternoon, it was like sort of frustration in some ways that she hadn't managed to get her work done and it was building up there and I said hey babe listen you know it maybe just embrace the

fact that actually you're not working today and actually you know that it's a day off she goes yeah I should have done that but all morning and all I've been getting frustrated so it's sometimes it's about and I know it's easy with hindsight but it's sometimes better to go hey you know what I'm having today off and embrace the fact and don't constantly think about your emails or your workload it's you know I'm hoping those two stories I shared there may be of some value to somebody listening to this right now yeah because actually you know often we say oh well the benefit hindsight, it's too late kind of thing. But actually, at the moment, it's not too late, because you can have that day off, you can defer something. I mean, I think your friend in the fitness industry, if they say, okay, I'm not going to work till September, if they change their mind in the meantime, great, fine. But if they don't, they've given themselves permission. permission um and you know like we've said repeatedly throughout this you know if in whichever way you're privileged to make certain choices now's the time to make them and even if

it's you do it a day a day too late because it's hindsight but you can still do it you know i have one of my favorite phrases is the best time to plant an oak tree was 200 years ago the second best time is today yeah brilliant says it already doesn't it tara oh man i i really love talking to you um i i i really do i think this could go on for a long time i would much rather we did it face to face and we will do another one face to face for sure but as you remember from last time i always like to finish with actionable tips for people. Now, I will say to people listening and watching this that Tara's book, The Source, is fantastic. It's full of science. It's very easy to read. A lot of practical tips in it. So, I really would encourage people to

take a look at The Source so they can learn more about your philosophy and your practical tips. But for the purpose of this podcast are people listening who like what they've heard today and feel inspired to make change i always like to leave people with a few practical tips that they can think about applying into their own life immediately so tara i wonder if you could share some of your top tips okay so i'm going to give um two tips that aren't in the book that One is about reviewing the past and one is about being in the present and, you know, doing yourself for the future. So one of the things I speak about is entrenched neural pathways, which are ways of being that

are habits and behavior patterns for us because they've been there for so long. This is a really interesting time to explore some of those. So I'm talking about things like from childhood, things like the role that you play in the family, the beliefs that are, you know, held within your family, the value system. And a really interesting one at the moment is boundaries, because, you know, some people have quite strong boundaries anyway, they may be introverted, they may, you know, sort of not really have that many people coming to their house some people may be the kind of family that always had people coming over sleeping on the sofa so to really sit down and think you know what role did I play as a

child that can be playing out now what do I strongly believe or uphold as a value that can either be helping or hindering me now in this lockdown situation and to really understand your boundaries because that's going to help with the vision boards that people make for how they want life to be after lockdown you will need to uphold your boundaries around some things because there's going to be a lot of external pressure and changes so I think those are really important things to reflect on. And then I do want to offer an exercise for the people that you mentioned, you know, the frontline workers, the people who are sort of run ragged with stress. But it's for everyone. But it's I did want to end with, you know, really like offering something to those people. And it's it's what I call body gratitude. So you can do it in the shower or you can do it if you're moisturizing your skin.

And you go from head to toe and you thank each different part of your body for what it's doing. So your lungs for breathing for you, your skin for protecting you for maintaining your physical boundary. You know, a lot of women are struggling with what to do with their hair at the moment, but thank your hair for being in the condition that it's in um so you just basically go through your whole body outside and inside and you literally thank each part you know maybe that hamstring that's playing up you thank it for giving you information about the condition of the muscles and joints and tendons in your body um and it's just it's a really really feel good exercise um because you know when we're stressed we you know there's this systemic dryness it's just it's a really really feel good exercise um because you know when we're stressed

we you know there's this systemic dryness it's a really good idea to get the benefits of moisturizing and the gratitude um all in one so i really hope people try it because you feel like a million dollars afterwards you know even if your hair is not doing what you'd like it to at the moment and you can't do much about it it makes you feel amazing so I think that's how I'd like people to feel at the end of this oh I really like that Tara how and just for people who think they may not have time for that it sounds like that's an exercise that doesn't need to take very long at all not at all and you know you can do it in the shower um and I mean it can take one to two minutes but also you can build it up over time so

you know you can start it today and then add to it tomorrow and um just, it can take one to two minutes, but also you can build it up over time. So, you know, you can start it today and then add to it tomorrow and just do it every so often. Yeah. Fantastic. Well, Tara, thank you so much for making time today. Um, you know, I hope you make an amazing action boards. I hope it actually brings into your life what you want it to at the end of this. And I look forward to the next time we have a conversation on the podcast. Me too. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast again. That concludes today's episode of the show. I really hope you enjoyed it. As always, do think about one thing you can take away from today's show that you can apply into your own life immediately. You can see links to Tara's book, her social media channels, and other

interesting related articles on the show notes page for this episode, which is drchastity.com forward slash 116. Now, as usual, please do share the podcast with your friends and family and on your social media channels. And if you can spare 30 seconds, please do leave a review on whichever platform you are listening to this show on, like Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It really does help to raise visibility and awareness of the show. And don't forget, this conversation, like all of my conversations, is available to watch in full on YouTube. Now, as you know, I'm super passionate about helping people to make positive change in their lives. And a lot of the themes we cover today about how to make behavior change and how to create new habits is covered in full in my latest book, Feel Better in 5. I teach you how to create new habits that last. And I also give you over 30 different five-minute tips to

help you with your physical, mental, and emotional health. Just this morning, I found out that there was a surge in sales last week and Feel Better in 5 was the second most bought book in the entire UK last week. I was so pleased to find out because I know that this book is changing so many people's lives. It is available in paperback, ebook, and as an audio book. And for my many US listeners,

it is coming out in America on September the 1st. So you can actually now go onto Amazon.com if you wish and place your order so that you will receive it on its publication date. A big thank you to Vedanta Chastity for producing this week's podcast and to Richard Hughes for audio engineering. That is it for today. I hope you have a fabulous week. Make sure you have pressed

subscribe and i'll be back in one week's time with my latest conversation remember you are the architect of your own health making lifestyle change is always worth it because when you feel better you live more i'll see you next time.