Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - #143 Dr Rangan Chatterjee on Authenticity, Compassion and Building a Healthier World

Episode Date: December 28, 2020

CAUTION ADVISED: this podcast contains mild swearing and themes of an adult nature. Final episode of 2020 - It’s that time of the year again when the mics are turned and it’s me in the hot seat. Today, I sit down with colleague and close friend, Dr Ayan Panja and reflect on the past year. For me, 2020 has been a year of great introspection during which I have reflected upon my values and the definition of success – what does success really mean? We discuss how I believe that one of the most important things we can all do, is find out what success means to us. Otherwise, we can end up rushing around, trying to do more in order to live up to an idea of success that society has defined for us. Authenticity is a topic that has been spoken about a lot on the podcast this year and has been at the forefront of my mind and we discuss how I have been striving to put this at the heart of everything I do both personally and professionally. A huge part of my working week is dedicated to this podcast and we chat about some of my favourite and most impactful episodes of the year. As you may know, I have also spent a large part of this year writing my brand-new book, Feel Great, Lose Weight and we talk about why I decided to write this book and how I hope that it will help me in my mission to improve the lives of 100 million people. This is such a wide-ranging conversation, but at its core this is simply a raw and authentic interaction between two very good friends. I hope you enjoy it. Show notes available at https://drchatterjee.com/143 Follow me on instagram.com/drchatterjee/ Follow me on facebook.com/DrChatterjee/ Follow me on twitter.com/drchatterjeeuk DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website. 

Some people will judge it, sure, but I'm committed to that 100 million figure. I'm committed to those people who feel worthless each year, who are failed by these two-week diet plans each year, the people who wreck their self-esteem, who can't stand to look at themselves in the mirror because of how they perceive their identity as wrapped up in the amount of fat they have. I'm hoping to reshape their view about weight loss, about health, but also reshape their view about themselves. I think there's an audience out there who think that health and actually weight loss is about deprivation, punishment, restriction. And I want to share with them, number one, it's not their fault. They're not broken. They don't lack willpower. I want to share with them that actually regaining your health, losing excess weight, if you want to do it, is about compassion.

It's about fun. It's about enjoyment. It's about self-esteem. It's about compassion. It's about fun. It's about enjoyment. It's about self-esteem. Hi, my name is Rangan Chatterjee. Welcome to Feel Better, Live More. Hello and welcome. This is the final podcast episode of 2020. And I think it's a good one that you are going to really, really enjoy. It's that time of year again where the mics are turned and I sit down with my colleague and really good friend, Dr. Ian Panjot, and we discuss some of my reflections on the past year. Now for me, 2020 has been a year of great introspection during which I've reflected upon my values and the definition

of success. What does that really mean? I think one of the most important things all of us can do is to find what success means to us. Otherwise, we can end up rushing around, trying to do more, and basically living up to an idea of success that society has defined for us. living up to an idea of success that society has defined for us. Now we explored this idea on the conversation today as well as authenticity, a topic that has been spoken about a lot on the podcast this year and has been at the forefront of my mind. We talk about how I've been striving to put this at the heart of everything I do both personally and professionally. A huge part of my working week now is dedicated to this podcast and yeah I think I can call it work although I really really enjoy it. We discuss

what some of those highlights have been and we also discuss some of the things I've struggled with on a personal level this year and how I prioritize my own well-being. As you may know I've spent a huge part of my time this year writing my brand new book, Feel Great, Lose Weight, which comes out this week. And Ayn asks me about why I wrote this book, what I get on a personal level from writing. And we also discuss how this book might help me get closer to my mission to improve the lives of 100 million people. This is such a wide-ranging conversation, but at its core, this is simply a raw and authentic interaction between two very good friends. I really enjoyed having it. I hope you enjoy listening.

And now, Dr. A. N. Panja in conversation with me. So look, you know, here we are at the end of 2020. We've had a few of these conversations over the last few years. And, you know, I know one of the things I always ask you is what you think you're going to be doing this time next year, but we'll come back to that. But what are your reflections so far on 2020? Yes, I think 2020, for me, I think like many of us, if I'm honest, has caused quite a bit of introspection and kind of looking at our lives, assessing our lives, figuring out what we want more of, what we want less of. And I don't think I'm any different there now. I think it's always important to say that for me, that everyone's got a different experience, right? So I've been in the very fortunate position where I can reflect on certain things, whereas I think for many people, it's been really, really stressful from a financial stress, economic stress,

worrying about relatives, or maybe someone's been sick in their family. Maybe someone's been sick in their family. But for me, I think this year has caused me to pause and reflect on my values in a way that I don't think many years have. feel I have been getting quite introspective over the past years and really trying to ask myself who I am, what kind of life am I living? Is it in alignment with who I want to be? But I feel 2020 has been personal growth on steroids. I think the pressures that we've all faced have really started to expose what I call fault lines. So I kind of feel that 2020 has exposed in many of us things that were already there, but actually our day-to-day lives weren't stressing us enough for them to be exposed. And I feel some insecurities that I may have about who I am, thinking about what other people think of me, but also how I'm living my life.

I think have been things I've been thinking about a lot. A key moment for me was in the summer, actually. In August, I went off social media in its entirety for 18 days. And I hadn't planned to go for 18 days. I had planned to maybe, I don't know, do a week, 10 days. I do this periodically. And it just felt so good that one week became 10 days, felt so good that one week became 10 days it became 14 days and before you know it at 18 days I was thinking I quite like not being on social media yeah yeah um and one of those big that two big things happened for me once I'd got out of the habit of picking up my phone and trying to find the Instagram app which I had deleted and that took four or five days that's a biggie isn't it deleting Instagram yeah but it's amazing to see just how habitual that is where you pick up your I had deleted. And that took four or five days. That's a biggie, isn't it? Deleting Instagram. Yeah, but it's amazing to see just how habitual that is. So you pick up your phone and you're looking for an app that's not there. It's like a ghost there. And it took

good five days for that to go. But I felt the volume on life suddenly got turned down. And I felt that I started to tap into what I really think. What I mean by that is often, because the first thing we do, we go online, we follow our influencers, we go on Twitter, the first thing we do, we go online, we follow our influencers, we go on Twitter, we read other people's views on things. And I don't think many of us realise, including myself, how much our worldview is influenced by other people. And when I had that silence, when I wasn't going on any social media platform at all for 18 days, I started to, it started to come up in me what I really think, not what everyone around me thinks. What do you really think? Is the societal view the same

view as you have? Or is it a bit different? So I think a lot of introspection for me. I mean, what about you? What have you learned this year? Yeah, very similar. I mean, it was was uh you know i think you're right about self-exploration and what you're talking about in a way of thresholds aren't they and your threshold for you know your habits and you know faults and things that kind of that we we do we have to all take stock again of what we do and why we do it and And I think for me, you know, work's just been so busy for obvious reasons. That's predominated. But there was some time to slow down,

which I think has been really nice. What interests me is what you said about values because to me that means, you know, I always think of core values like contribution or recognition or adventure. what do you mean by values so you obviously sort of it sounds like you've had a year of learning a bit more about yourself yeah look it's been a busy year in many ways there have been all kinds of pressures this year which we can talk about but in terms of that question about values,

it was in that time when I went off social media that I started to list out, I tried to write down what are my core values? What are the values that I think I live my life by, or I would like to live my life by? And that's, I think the funny thing with value sometimes is that sometimes we think, oh, I value hard work. I value family. I value, you know, success, whatever that means. But then if you actually look at your life, you go, well, are my actions really consistent with that? So is it a real value or is it an aspirational value? And what I try to do is kind of figure out what are my ideal values? And I'm still playing around with it. I think it's a great exercise for people to do, but integrity is one of them. So it was integrity. Compassion was another one. Family, solitude. These are four of the values I put down. And then it was

a kind of a case of looking at, am I living my life by those values? Do I have integrity in everything I do? Am I being completely honest, transparent in my personal life, in my professional life? So I sort of go through that process. Compassion, that's compassion to other people, but also compassion to myself. Am I living my life in accordance with those things? You know, family. One of the big things I'll be thinking about this year, and it relates to values, is this idea of what is success? You know, what is success? I think so many of us never take the time to define what success is. So we're chasing this mythical idea of success without actually knowing what does that mean? I agree. Yeah. You know, and we're letting society define success for us. And if we let society define it for us,

it's often things like, um, you need to earn more money. You need to go on nicer holidays. You need to have the car that your neighbors got. Um, You need to get your kids into a certain school, right? We're being sold that we're not enough, that, oh, I could look better if I bought that new t-shirt or I got the latest smartphone. It's this kind of capitalist society where we're constantly being marketed to buy, buy, buy because we are not enough in who we are. And I think a really valuable exercise that I've been doing this year is, well, what is enough? What does success look like for me? You know, what if we as a society define success not by your job title, or the amount of money you earn, or the kind of holidays you've got,

why don't we define that as how many meals did you have this year with people you really value? How many meals did I have this year with my children and my wife when I was present and not distracted? Because if you take the time to define that, then you'll have a good idea of whether you're meeting it. Because maybe some of us have already reached our definition of success, but we've never taken the time to look at it, measure it, assess it. So we keep chasing, we keep feeling that we're not enough, that we've to do more but it's that question for me that keeps coming up and i i would i'm constantly asking myself this and i hope by us having this conversation that other people ask themselves this is what is enough yeah i i totally relate to that and i think um you know we're chasing something

that's unrealistic and doesn't exist you know and and it takes it suddenly dawns on you doesn't it that actually there is no end game here you've got to actually stop and think about what you're doing but what i would say about you you know as a as a mate of yours and as someone that looks at what you're doing from the outside world i think your purpose is pretty pretty clear. You know, you've made it explicit that you want to help 100 million people, you know, and a lot of people listening to you talking about yourself would be surprised because they'd think, well, hang on, he's got that sorted.

He's got a very clear mission and he seems to be doing it. So what's the problem? Yeah, I mean, on that, so one of the most powerful moments for me, certainly on this podcast this year, was when I spoke to Matthew McConaughey a few episodes back. And I don't even remember that conversation,

but Matthew's arguably one of the most famous actors in the world, an Oscar winner. And there was a moment in the conversation where I asked him, what do you struggle with? What's the character trait that will rear its head when pressure comes into your life, when you're not sleeping enough, when you're being pulled in too many directions,

what's that flaw, if you will, that we all have that keeps coming up? And he paused because I don't think he'd been asked that question before. He was really thinking, and must be five, six seconds later, he said a lack of confidence. For me, that was one of the most powerful moments that I've had on the podcast this year to understand that actually even someone who is regarded as successful whether it's money Oscars you know movie star everything that society would define as success, he probably has. He says he suffers from the lack of confidence. I think that's powerful. And relating to that, to your question, if people do look up to me and think that I've got it all sorted,

what I try and share week in, week out on this show is that that's not the case. You know, I am like everyone else. I'm just a perfectly imperfect human being who has my own struggles and challenges. And you know, there's as, you know, as my profile grows, which is happening at a huge pace. I mean, that's never the goal for me. The goal is to make an impact. But the side effects of impacting more and more people is more and more people know who you are. And with that, if you're not careful, can come a real external pressure. And I've got this old swing fault or characteristic trait of being a people pleaser. And I've realised that you can't please everyone. The quest I'm on, and I think that's been magnified this year, is how do you be

completely authentic and sincere with who you actually are? Because I can do my job best, I can do my job best, whether that's my job as a doctor or my job as a husband or my job as a father or my job as a son or my job as a friend, right? I can do all those jobs best when I'm being more authentic, you know? And that topic has come up a lot in the last few months on the podcast. How can I be the same person off the mic as i am on the mic i know what you mean we've got no game face there's no mask yeah yeah how can i keep taking the masks off because that does two things i think a i think that's that's what true connection is right you can't connect when you're performing you can't you can't truly connect i want to speak to pippa grange a few months ago and she said one of the most wonderful phrases that i've heard which is

you know are you performing at life or are you really living life and i think it's super super powerful because it's i feel that that sort of of widespread revolution actually starts with personal revolution. I feel if I can get clearer on who I am, if I can look in the mirror each day and be happy with the person that's looking back at me, I think all the roles in my life, I can do a lot better. I get that. And I totally agree i mean it's it brings me on to kind of your podcast which is you know for me the kind of um your opus in some ways in terms of the core of it's at the very core of what you do and i've noticed it's changed a bit this year um in terms of you know partly the format there are these bite-sized bits which i love um and also the the array of guests is is really broad now isn't it yeah i mean i think you know

we're coming into the podcast being three years old so a few weeks away from its third uh third birthday so um you know it's changed from being an audio production to being now audio and video. You know, it's gone from being, you know, me chucking a couple of mics in my backpack and trying to find people in their offices or wherever they are. It's actually having a studio now where I can actually, you know, that we can really own the space. But I think the evolution of the podcast has really just reflected my own personal evolution. And I've been thinking about this and I sort of think this is one of the reasons why it has become so popular. It's because I'm, it's what I said about connection before, it's you can't connect

when you're performing. You can only really connect when you're being truly authentic and being vulnerable. And that's the question every conversation is, can I have a raw, authentic conversation full of sincerity? And I've always had this belief, and I know we've spoken about this um you know on nights out in the past or you know in the in the good old days um but i i strongly believe that we can all learn something from every person we meet you know i think it's i think on some level it's arrogance to think anything else. Every single person's got something to teach us, even if it teaches us how we don't want to behave or what we don't want to do. And, you know, this last season of the podcast, it started off being, you know, health experts each week. And I still absolutely love chatting to, you know, in a verse commas, health experts,

absolutely love chatting to, you know, in a verse commas, health experts. But also, you know, yesterday, the conversation with Gareth Southgate went out, you know, the England football manager, why would I be talking to the England football manager? Well, I believe that we can learn a lot of lessons from how footballers or how a manager has to get this team with so many eyes on it to perform at a high level. I feel we can all learn things from that. I feel understanding some of those tools and principles will help me in my own life access better health. So I have, and again, I talk about comfort zones a lot, right? So I push myself out of my comfort zone a lot on this podcast because I feel very passionately about, I want to live the message that I preach, that I talk about. So I'm always excited about new guests from different spheres and different areas to see

what I can learn from them. And it's also a nice challenge for me. Can I have a conversation with Gareth Southgate and make it relevant for my audience who may not like football? Well, I hope I did that. Can I have a conversation with Matthew McConaughey and actually find some wisdom in him that people who follow me for health advice

will get something in it for them? And the feedback's been incredible. And I think it's going to continue to evolve. I want variety. If I had the same kind of guests each week, I'd get bored. You are really good at bringing out the best in them, I have to say, because I personally know a few of the people that come on. And there are some great moments in there. You know, what are your favourite sort of highlights from the year? It's probably a difficult question to answer,

but there's too many, aren't there? It's asking, who's my favourite child? You know, it's... Or just sort of moments that have made you think. I mean, look, if I think about this year, moments, Gabo Mate, when we all started going into lockdown early on, really, you know really trying to unpick

those early emotions that I was having, that Gabel was having, that the world was having with someone as esteemed and someone who I respect as much as Gabel was incredible. John McAvoy. John was the newest day episode last year, his story from being armed robber to being free man now, which is the longest one I've ever released. But many people still say it's the best one. I think two and a half hours that was, but you couldn't write that story. And if Hollywood wrote that story, you'd think they were making it up. But when I invited him back on in lockdown, that was an incredible conversation because, again, sort of coming back to what I was saying before about controlling the controllables, John explained how he was in solitary confinement in

the highest security prison in the UK for one year. So he's in a little box for an entire year. And he was sharing what he learned from Nelson Mandela. He was sharing what he learned about himself, which is he's still in control. In his mind, he's not in prison, right? In his mind, he's not in prison. He brought up his own routine every morning. He'd be in his cell. He'd do his own prison workout. He'd read. He would control the controllables. And that, if you follow me for health advice, that has just as much application to you as anyone else. So I find it incredible to learn. We've got a conversation with Edith Eager that's coming out just after this conversation. Edith, I've got to say that conversation is probably the conversation that has changed me the most. I am not the same person anymore.

Why? Without sort of, you know, giving it all away, but I mean, what was... I'll tell you why, because this is a lady who, you know, first of all, she's the oldest guest I've had, right? So I think she's either 93 or 94 at the moment. She went to Auschwitz when she was 16. She's getting on with her life. She doesn't even know Auschwitz exists. Her parents, her, get taken to Auschwitz. Her parents get murdered the day she gets there. Her parents get murdered the day she gets there. She then has to dance for the guy who's regarded as the angel of death. We spoke for 90 minutes on picking her story, what she learnt.

She is one of the warmest, most forgiving, most caring, most non-judgmental individuals i've ever spoken to i think wow you have been through the absolute worst of what is out there in humanity how is it you're so kind and forgiving at 94 with such wisdom to share. It was one of those where actually I recorded it over Skype and I tell you, I finished it and it was basically, I think my wife had stuff to do that evening and I was meant to be doing bedtime. And I think the conversation ended on Skype at about, I don't know, quarter to seven. And I think I'd felt teary for most of the conversation. And I think I rushed into the house to do bedtime and I just couldn't concentrate. I actually said to my daughter, I think I said, darling, look, daddy's going to go downstairs to 20 minutes. I'm just going to sit. I'll come back and read a book to you

a bit later. I just can't do it at the moment. Yeah. I mean- You had to decompress. I had to really decompress. It took me days, frankly. So that I think was one of the most powerful conversations I've ever had. And again, I think there are tools and, you know, without giving the whole game away, she will also say that, she says, I've been in Auschwitz, but I can still tell you the biggest prison, the most severe prison you ever go into is the prison you create in your mind. And when you hear that from people like Edith Eger, or even, you know, John McAvoy or Nelson Mandela, you see how they, what they went through. And again, I'm not trying to compare that

at all, just to be clear with Auschwitz and what Edith went through, just so there's no doubt there. But these are really moving moments that changed me as a person. And my hope is that if I get moved and I change during a conversation, I find it hard to believe that much of my audience won't feel the same way. I know. I can't wait to watch that one because I remember reading Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl, which has a very similar theme. And I was so moved by reading the book. I can't imagine what it's like to actually talk to someone

who's got that kind of lived experience. Yeah, that's going to be... It's an honour. Yeah, it's just it was it was one of those where you just pay homage and go i'm just very lucky that i got the opportunity to talk with her and listen to her for 90 minutes and you know that's one of the most powerful things for me about this podcast is that i have conversations with people that i don't think it's possible to have, or it's very hard to have unless you're on a podcast. Like even with you, we'll find out stuff about each other with the mics on that we just wouldn't. We would banter around, we do other things. You get to a certain deepness and that's what's missing in the world i think more than anything

is depth yeah you get to a different level of connection in a way and and meaning i think um and and obviously the bulk of your year most years for the last four you do a lot of writing obviously because every year you've released a book and then you've got a new book coming out soon what tell us the process behind that because you know i'm looking at it i've got it here i've got a copy of it here i'm very lucky to have flicked through it and actually read it it's quite a different topic um what was just tell us your thoughts behind how that came about. Yeah.

Because if I had to predict what you were going to write a book about this year, a year ago, you know, I always ask you, what do you think it wouldn't have been this? Just taking a quick break to give a shout out to AG1, one of the sponsors of today's show. Now, if you're looking for something at this time of year to kickstart your health, I'd highly recommend that you consider AG1. AG1 has been in my own life for over five years now. It's a science-driven daily health drink with over 70 essential nutrients to support your overall health. It contains vitamin C and zinc, which helps support a healthy immune system, something that

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packs with their first order. But until the end of January, they are doubling the five free travel packs to 10. And these packs are perfect for keeping in your backpack, office, or car. If you want to take advantage of this limited time offer, all you have to do is go to drinkag1.com forward slash live more. That's drinkag1.com forward slash live more. What would it have been? I't know but not this okay um so look like the first part of that is about my thinking process as an author um and what i really feel strongly about books are that books are a way to really make change. Books are, I think, quite a unique medium in that you really get into people's lives. And what I think is really unique around books in this current area in which we live is how permanent they can be.

So an Instagram post, for example, is transient. It's short-lived. You might like it. You might engage with it. You might think about it. But a few days later, it's gone. It's gone into the ether. It's vanished. How many of us actually properly save things and go back and look at them later? I mean, a lot of us have the intention and the desire to do that, but then we get swamped with life and then there's new posts to read, so we forget about it. Whereas I've seen, having released, well, this will be the fourth book in four years, I've just seen the constant feedback from all over the world throughout the year on how these books have got a life of their own, that you get into people's lives, some things connect straight away. Sometimes they forget

about things, they revisit them later in the year when their sleep goes off, or they have a bereavement, or they lose a job, or they get a new diagnosis of something that they weren't wanting. And I also get a lot of enjoyment out of writing the books because I find it a very creative process, a very cathartic process for me. And what it, you know, I'm very creative. I have a lot of ideas all the time. But what a book forces you to do is to order your ideas. I think... It's really hard, isn't it? I mean, people who don't see that side of it, I mean, I think I do,

don't realise just how involved it is. It's brutal, isn't it? It's really hard work. It's certainly the most time-consuming and challenging thing that I do, I think, because of its permanence. Because once it's there, once it goes to print, you're sort of done. And you know that the science may move on. You can't click delete, like on a post. You can't. And sometimes you're like, man, I wish I'd rephrase, I wish I'd phrase that a little bit

differently. So in terms of books, I love doing it. I've seen the impact it's having. I enjoy it. It upskills me. I feel I'm a better communicator after each book I write because I've had to order new thoughts. And sometimes when you're writing things, you think you know something and then you be like, man, that doesn't really flow. Or you need to get clearer in your own brain before you can write that and expect someone to understand that. So I see it as a challenge to myself. But in terms of why this book, I could see why you think it wasn't the natural next book for me.

But let's go back to the mission. The mission is, over the course of my career, to try and reach 100 million people, if possible, okay? And help improve their lives, restore them to optimal health. Now, I think this new book is absolutely consistent with the message in the first three books, even though that may not be obvious from just reading the title, right? So going back to the mission, how do you reach 100

million people? Well, you have to be able to reach people who are not currently accessing your information, right? So weight loss is a controversial area and I didn't go into it lightly because it is controversial. I didn't need to go into that area. I could have stayed well away from it, right? But that for me would have been the easy thing to do. The harder thing, and I think the right thing to do was as a medical doctor was to tackle this head on. You know how many patients come in to see you as a doctor, as I do, who wants help with sustainable weight loss, right? Just because the societal narrative has moved on where we don't like talking about it anymore, I don't feel I can hide from it as

a medical doctor. I have to tackle it head on. And the reason I wrote this book, one of the reasons I wrote it is because there is a section of the population who have been conditioned by society to only pick up a book that says weight loss on the cover. I can write every book I want about promoting health first, physical health, mental health, emotional health, and the weight loss will come as a side effect if you want it to. But there's a section of the population who are not picking up those books because they don't feel it's relevant to them because they want the new celebrity diet plan every January, which hopefully is going to work one year in a way that it didn't work in the previous years. And I'll tell you why that bothers me as a doctor is, and I wonder if you share the same experience or not, but

I know what it's like. New year, new you. Everyone's feeling motivated. Everyone's like, you know, this year is going to be different. This year, that is it. I've had enough now. I'm getting in, right? But what would happen is that come the end of January or February or March, March is often when I would see this with patients, is that not only they did lose weight in January and felt better, had more energy, right? But in March, not only had they gone back to their existing weight, they're over it. But that isn't the worst thing about it. The worst thing about it is that their self-esteem has gone. They feel as if they have failed, right? It's the only industry where we don't blame the diet or the book, we blame ourselves,

right? And I kept seeing patients like this who they have been damaged. It's not neutral. That's the thing. So the penny dropped for me a few years ago. This is not neutral. Going on the diet, rebounding the weight, and then damaging your mental health and your self-esteem is toxic. And I thought, well, Rangan, how are you going to reach those people? Because the truth is the four pillar plan will help those people. Yeah, I was going to say. The stress solution will, feel better in five will. Many people have lost excess weight. You get lots of messages about that.

Loads on the first three books, right? I didn't mention weight loss, but by not mentioning it, I can't reach a lot of people who I think would benefit from this message the most. And so, you know, for people who publish books, there's always battles with the publishers on titles. That's the truth. The title has to do a certain job. Actually, on the title, serious question. I'm no publisher, but I would have thought it would be lose weight, feel great. You've got feel great, lose weight. Is there a reason for that? Yeah. I mean, that's intentional because I'm trying to get across that this book is going to help you feel great now. I'm going to help you feel good about yourself. I'm going to improve your self-esteem.

I'm going to help you with your confidence, with your self-worth. I'm going to give you more energy, more calm now, within days of starting and doing some of the tips and tools that I share in the book, and any excess weight loss is going to come along as a side effect. It's weight loss as a side effect of physical and mental wellbeing, right? That is the message in the book. And the reality is the book is not just for people who want to lose excess weight, but it's impossible to title a book in a short way that actually, it's so hard giving titles that actually are going to appeal to everyone who you want the book to appeal to. So I had to make a decision. I just got to go, I want to reach this audience. I think they're being misserved.

I think there's an audience out there who think that health and actually weight loss is about deprivation, punishment, restriction. And I want to share with them, number one, it's not their fault. They're not broken. They don't lack willpower. I want to share with them that actually regaining your health, losing excess weight, if you want to do it, it's about compassion. It's about fun. It's about enjoyment. It's about self-esteem. And I mean, you've read it. I don't know what you think. I genuinely believe it's the best book I've written so far. And I believe that people who've read the first three will love it, even if they don't want to lose weight. But does that make sense? My rationale for writing it? Yeah, absolutely. And I think it is actually the best written book that you've written,

definitely. And it flows beautifully. And there are some really lovely tools, which I want to touch on actually. And just, you know, things like emotional eating, for example, doesn't often get covered in conventional diet books. And there's a whole area there about, you know, short-termism and goes back to that thing about checking yourself.

There's a lot of kind of mental tricks in there, aren't they? I say tricks, but you know what I mean. And a lot of them are new. A lot of them are brand new things that i've evolved my thinking on um over the last few years yes i was reading the book and i i basically came across there were two things that i have immediately sort of implemented myself which i kind of thought i knew but i'd sort of didn't the first is about salads and eating them first. I love that one. Just talk us through that. Yeah. I mean, I think I called it greens go first in the book. There's good scientific research on this now that if you eat a salad at the start of your meal, you eat less overall. So it's just a little trick that people can use if they struggle with

overeating or eating too much i mean there's all kinds of reasons why that is i mean eating a salad will typically slow you down so there's a mindful element to that because they're crunchy you can't really just hoof them down that's the point isn't it like you should be slower as well yeah it forces you to eat slower so you have a bit more time to register the kind of hunger signals the satiety signals which they're always there those signals but sometimes we're too busy that we're not actually hearing the noise that our bodies are creating for us do you remember we eat through it uh i i think i i share that that thing in the book when i was in first year at university in edinburgh and one of of the local pizza places had eat as much as you can.

Yeah, we used to go to one as well. Yeah, and I shared my tricks and I used to say to my buddies, guys, you're doing this wrong. You're eating too slowly. You've got to eat so quick that your stomach doesn't register you full. I think about that now and I think, wow, you're pretty juvenile, weren't you, Ron, when you were 18? But I think, like what we were saying before in the conversation, I think sharing these things is important so people understand that we've all got certain issues around food. For some of us, it doesn't show up with excess weight, like in me.

I could probably overeat quite a bit and I'm just genetically not a person who's going to put on loads and loads of weight, but I will feel it in other ways. So the salad thing is, there's so many practical tips for people in the book that are going to help people, but greens go first is this idea of simply where it's a salad or it could be some vegetables, whatever it is, eat that first. It slows you down. So it's a salad or it could be some vegetables, whatever it is, you eat that first, it slows you down. So it's a bit of mindful eating, but also these things tend to be fiber rich. So they're actually start to fill you up even physically with a distension in the stomach, you start to fill up before you eat something else. And I think I may have shared this on the

podcast before, but like my daughter, for example, if we make something like, I don't know, salmon, sweet potatoes, and broccoli, and I give it her all together, or kale actually is the one with my daughter, she will eat the salmon, the sweet potato wedge is no problem. And then often she doesn't have room for the kale. So I have a strategy where I give her a plate of kale first. And when she's eating the kale, she can get her salmon and wedges. Now, I'm not saying anyone else should parent like this. This is what I do in a very kind and compassionate way. And do you know what? She eats all the kale, right? And then she actually eats less of the wedges in the end because she's full. Do you know what I mean? So I think we can all trick ourselves. If anyone's listening to this and they think, I'll never fancy the veg, we want to

have some kale or broccoli at the start with some olive oil, a bit of sea salt if you want on the top. I think it's gorgeous. Have that at the start. You're just going to allow time for these hunger signals to kick in. I love that one. And the other one is more of a concept, actually, the buffet effect. I love buffets. I've always loved them. And actually, I remember about, it must have been about 10 years ago, we went on a family holiday to Croatia and we booked into one of those hotels, which is buffet all you can eat. And I put on four and a half kilos just in a week, literally. It took me about a year to go back to my normal weight. But actually, you explain that very well as well about, and I think you tell this story about how during lockdown,

you were eating very similar food most days. And so you sort of got bored of it. And this concept of, you know how you have an extra tummy for dessert? Yeah. You were covering, you were talking about that. And, you know, it's a joke in my house. The kids, they're always full, but they can always manage dessert. Well, I think everyone knows that feeling that you've always got room for ice cream.

You've always got room for something else, even though you're stuffed. And, you know, I do sort of, I think it's a really fun bit in the book for people, but I talk about the buffet effect, the concepts, and the scientific term is sensory-specific satiety. So we get full for certain flavours. So if you've had a savoury meal, you may be absolutely jam-packed full for those savoury flavours that you've had. It doesn't mean you fall for sweetness. Go back to the chocolate fountain at the buffet. Yeah. And I think that a few people who've read the early copies or even people at my publishers who read it when I was submitting the manuscripts, the amount of emails I got saying, yeah, hotel buffets are my downfall.

Guilty. Yeah. But lockdown has been a tale of two stories for me, really. The start of lockdown, when we were eating home-cooked meals every day, very simple whole food ingredients, quite repetitive after a bit of time, you know, because there wasn't the opportunity to kind of spice it up with a takeaway or, you know, it was, do you know what I mean? It was very different. And I found, wow, I'm starting to get a bit bored sometimes in the meal and actually I'm eating less because I haven't got the option of spicing it up with something else. And it really got me thinking about this whole concept of how we've started to look at foods. Like food shouldn't be boring. It should be enjoyable. Absolutely.

But how enjoyable? Like does every single meal we eat need to be Insta-ready and mind-blowingly tasty? Because I think many of us have been conditioned to think it does need to be. I've got no problem making, you know, double the amount of, let's say, a butternut squash soup at lunch and eating that for dinner as well. But even within my own family, that's like, you know, it's like, well, can we not have something different? We've already had that for lunch. And I kind of think on an evolutionary level, have we ever been that picky about food where- You just eat when you can and what you can. You eat what you can when you can, right? And I think if you look at the blue zones, these areas around the world where people live to high rates, you know, they've got really good

rates of longevity, but in really good health, they've got this core group of whole food ingredients and they just recirculate them over and over again, but they enjoy their food. So I say in the book, I have this message that not every single meal needs to be a gourmet Instagram ready meal. And I think, again, I've spoken about social media on this course, but I think it really drives this idea that, I don't know, just some potatoes and veg and a bit of a protein source, you know, whether you eat, you know, meat or you're vegan, it just doesn't feel enough. We feel like we've somehow failed because when I'm on Instagram, everyone's breakfast and lunch looks just amazing. And they presented it beautifully. Like it goes back to what i've said before and

which is we're constantly made to feel like failures like that what we do is not enough the food we make is not enough because it doesn't look like i think everyone else is having their meals now we don't think that actually sometimes to get a shot for instagram or and i know from cookery books and from chatting to teams that publishes it can take four or five hours to get a shot for Instagram, and I know from cookery books and from chatting to teams at publishers, it can take four or five hours to get one shot. It's nuts, isn't it? Lighting, everything is all done to make it absolutely pop. It's like, well, you cannot compare your breakfast, lunch, and dinner each day to that. Do you know what I mean? That's not four or five hours to prepare it. That's four to five hours just to take the right shot. And so there's all kinds of things in the book like this in terms

of the hormones that get released when we're eating, why many of us can't resist certain foods. But I said there's two tales to lockdown. The start of it, yeah, I was eating really well, start of it yeah i was eating really well really well but i had this moment in the summer and i and i know i mentioned that the 2020 for me has been personal growth on steroids i've been doing a lot of inner work and it was about a four week period maybe six weeks where i had a real problem with sugar i couldn't stop eating sugar that That's really unlike you. Yeah, it's really unlike me. I just couldn't stop. It's not that I don't know of the harmful effects of too much sugar. I probably covered it in my last three books. It's not that I don't know that with my rational brain, but that's the key about foods. Many of our food choices don't come from the rational

brain they come from the emotional brain i was doing a lot of stuff about my childhood and my relationship with my parents and how i saw my self-worth and i remember that i still remember like with my brother sneaking down to the kitchen and and then the i mean you've you've obviously been to my my parents house many times uh and in the kitchen just by the counter there's this there's this cupboard and there was this old um I guess it's like a cookie jar but it didn't have cookies and you'd open it and I had all those kind of fun sized chocolates oh yeah yeah you know it's crunchies or mars bars or whatever it was all the there. The miniatures. And I can still remember like on a Saturday afternoon, I don't know where my parents were, I still remember going there

and just eating quite a few of them. Back in the day when Snickers was marathon. Back in the, exactly. Do you know what I mean? And I feel that I tapped into something there where I used to get a lot of comfort from sweet things. And I think that mirrored what I was going through at a certain time. The reason I'm saying it is because A, it's the truth and B, that actually relates to my favorite section in the new book, which is why we eat. And frankly, that's relevant to all of us, right? I wasn't eating because I didn't need a lecture on what sugar was doing to me. I know it. I've written books on that, right? I needed help. I needed to learn to help myself really understand what was driving the sugar intake, right? It was emotional. And the way I describe it in the book, and I think this really sums it up for people, is that we used to use food

to fill a hole in our stomachs. Now we use food to fill a hole in our hearts. And I just want to let that sit with people for a minute because for everyone listening to this now or watching this, everyone listening to this now or watching this, when was the last time you used food to fill a hole in your heart and not your stomach? Because by understanding that, that's the key to change. That's the key. When we're bored, we eat. When we're lonely, we eat. When we're stressed out, we eat. When we've had a row with our partner, we eat. When the kid's bedtime has gone too long, we eat. You don't need a new diet book saying, you don't need a new book on sugar necessarily. You need to understand what's driving that. The freedom exercise in the book.

Yeah, that's great. The three Fs. The three Fs. Yeah. And the reason I know it's on page 93, right, is because when I was doing the final edits, I refer to that exercise maybe 10 times in the book because I think it's so important and it goes beyond food. Before we get back to this week's episode, I just wanted to let you know that I am doing my very first national UK theatre tour. I am planning a really special evening where I share how you can break free from the habits that are holding you back and make meaningful changes in your life that truly last. It is called the Thrive Tour. Be the architect of your health

and happiness. So many people tell me that health feels really complicated, but it really doesn't need to be. In my live event, I'm going to simplify health and together we're going to learn the skill of happiness, the secrets to optimal health, how to break free from the habits that are holding you back in your life, and I'm going to teach you how to make changes from the habits that are holding you back in your life, and I'm going to teach you how to make changes that actually last. Sound good? All you have to do is go to drchatterjee.com forward slash tour, and I can't wait to see you there. This episode is also brought to you by the Three Question Journal, the journal that I designed and created in partnership with Intelligent Change. Now, journaling is something that I've been recommending

to my patients for years. It can help improve sleep, lead to better decision-making, and reduce symptoms of anxiety and depression. It's also been shown to decrease emotional stress, make it easier to turn new behaviours into long-term habits, and improve our relationships. There are, of course, many different ways to journal, and as with most things, it's important that you find the method that works best for you.

One method that you may want to consider is the one that I outline in the three-question journal. In it, you will find a really simple and structured way of answering the three most impactful questions I believe that we can all ask ourselves every morning and every evening. Answering these questions will take you less than five minutes, but the practice of answering them regularly will be transformative. Since the journal was published in January, I have received hundreds of messages from people telling me how much it has helped them and how much more in control of their lives they now feel. Now, if you already have a journal or you don't actually want

to buy a journal, that is completely fine. I go through in detail all of the questions within the three-question journal completely free on episode 413 of this podcast. But if you are keen to check it out, all you have to do is go to drchatterjee.com forward slash journal or click on the link in your podcast app. step. Well, it's the freedom exercise. The three Fs is really simple. The three Fs are feel, feed, find. Okay. So if you want to relate this to food, I'd ask someone who, you know, whether it's a patient or someone listening to this, say, look, next time you get a craving for something, let's say you're watching telly and you've got a craving to have some ice cream at night. Okay. Ask yourself, just take a pause. What are you really feeling? Is it hunger? Is it physical hunger? Or is it emotional hunger? Right? Are you really hungry or have you just had a row with someone? Have you had a crap day where

you've been on Zooms indoors all day and you've not been outside yet? Is that your little reward for yourself? Have you had a row with someone? Have you really, really stressed? Have you fallen out with your kids? What is going on really? And then you can still eat it. I'm just saying, with your kids. What is going on really? And then you can still eat it. I'm just saying, take a quick pause, right? And it's about, in a very gentle way, it's to help people gain awareness. It's like, okay, cool. All right, I get it. I want the ice cream because I've not done much today. I fell out with my wife before and this is going to make me feel a bit better. Okay, cool. Now have the ice cream. The second F when you're ready for it is, okay, now that you know what the feeling is, now can you identify how that sugar or that food feeds that feeling? Ah, okay. When I feel down

and stress, I have ice cream. I feel better. Okay, cool. Now you're just starting to repregnate. You're starting to gain an awareness. Then the third F is find. Now that you know what the feeling is, now that you know how your snack feeds that feeling, the third F is find. Can you find an alternative behavior that's going to help you feed that same feeling? That could be running a bath. It could be doing a 10-minute yoga flow on YouTube. It could be doing some star jumps. It could be giving your partner or your pet a hug. Yeah. In the book, you call it stealing a cuddle from a family member, which I loved. I thought that was really good. Or it could be changing the environment. It could be, oh, in that room, because the brain is a very associative organ. Or maybe I won't go to that room. If you have

the luxury of going to a different room where you don't tend to snack. So, and can I just say that exercise, because I do believe that most authors write the books that they need for themselves. And I think that's absolutely the case with this book, even though most people say I don't need to lose excess weight, but I think the tools have really helped me. That works. If you find yourself scrolling instagram for too long each evening are you trying to reduce it and you can't do the three f's on your instagram usage if you're trying to cut down on booze right which many people are trying to do at this time of year you're pointing your finger at me i didn't mean to i didn't mean to but if you are yeah use the three f's on your alcohol intake and this goes back to what we were saying that this is just so much more than weight loss

i think that's the thing you've there's so there's so many elements and actually for anyone who reads the book they'll realize you know there's a section for example on mindful eating and and and for me that comes down to savoring you know that's what i would how i would sort of describe it to my kids for example because you know but um and it's interesting you mention alcohol because a few years ago when i was drinking a bit more regularly I suddenly thought you know what I'm going to actually sort of drink less alcohol but savor it more you know literally sort of think about every sip and and you mentioned that in the book which I think again you know and actually once you put it all together you know you explain the sort of science behind cravings and then you you you give us these tools to try it all just I can see how it would just click together.

It's just, it isn't a weight loss book. But actually, as you say, as a byproduct, you will lose weight. If you want to. If you want to, yeah. If that's your goal, and you're trying to lose excess weight, great. If it isn't, if you just want to improve your health,

your happiness, your longevity, I think the tools are going to help you. You know, it's interesting that it is you know the whole idea of weight loss is controversial um and there's this yeah have you had any flack about writing it or yeah you know when i when i not much if i'm honest but i think like, some of my audience may be surprised. When I first announced the cover, I think just before the summer, I announced it the first time that I was writing a book. It was coming out. It's pretty bright, isn't it?

It is pretty bright. It is pretty bright. Yeah. It was interesting. There were a few comments. Not many, I will say, but I but a few private messages sent to me, a few people commenting on social media saying, Dr. Chachi, I love everything you've done so far. Love your TV shows, love your podcasts, love your first three books. Really, really disappointed in you for jumping on the weight loss bandwagon,

for getting involved with diet books. And it's really interesting because in every post I've done about it, I've been very, very clear that this is not a diet book. There is no diet in the book to follow. I've really explained what it's about, but I do feel that the phrase, don't judge a book by its cover, I think has very much been at play with some people. And, you know, I welcome those because they're an opportunity for me to learn. You know, initially I was a bit frustrated because I thought I've really tried to make that clear. And you're judging me and criticising me based on something that's not in the book. But then I use it as a mirror. You know, what can I learn about that? Oh,

it meant I need to get clearer in my vision. I needed to get really clear in why I wrote that book, really understand it myself, because they're entitled, everyone is entitled to have their view. And I respect people's views. Now, I tried to engage with a couple of them really respectfully. Unfortunately, I don't feel that a few of them did respectfully engage back a few of them were quite derogatory back and certainly that was my perception of it so i think is it worth my time really trying here because some people will judge it sure but i'm committed to that 100 million figure I'm committed to those people who feel worthless each

year, who are failed by these two-week diet plans each year, the people who wreck their self-esteem, who can't stand to look at themselves in the mirror because of how they perceive their identity as wrapped up in the amount of fat they have. And in the book, I start right at the start of the book. I'm hoping the cover gets people who might usually pick up a celebrity diet plan, pick it up. And from paragraph one, I'm hoping to reshape their view about weight loss, about health, but also reshape their view about themselves. You know, there's this part in the book, in the Why We, could be emotional abuse, and obesity. And I share some stories, but one of them is about this patient who was never overweight before. And in her late teens, she started to put on weight, and she was really, really struggling. And I spent time with her, really trying to understand what was

happening. I really got this inkling that there was a huge emotional component here. I started to unpack a bit of it with her while I was gaining her trust. Then we did get a therapist to help as well. And what transpired was, I think it was when she was about 16 that she'd been in an abusive relationship. And basically she wasn't aware of this, but her subconscious in essence was trying to protect her. And her way of never being in an abusive relationship again was to put on extra weight. Because in her mind, of course incorrectly, but in her mind, she felt that if I carry lots of extra fat and extra weight on me, no man is going to find me attractive. Ego, I'm not going to be in an abusive relationship again. And for her, she doesn't need the government

telling her to take more personal responsibility, right? She had tried loads. She didn't need people making her feel bad, right? What she needed was compassion, was help, was understanding, was empathy. And she lost her weight. But it was all emotional. We had to tackle that. It wasn't easy to, but it was possible. So I really feel that I've really tried to take this round at a view. I don't know what you think about this, but I think as people who have gone into general practice, I feel we're in a really, in some ways, a luxurious position and not luxurious in terms of, I don't mean in terms of workload. I mean, luxurious in terms of we get to see everything. And I think it really, I feel that these 20 years of experience as a doctor has given me a very

rounded approach to go, there is no one size fits all, right? You can absolutely pretty much help every single person lose a lot of their excess weight once you find the right approach for them, right? That's the key. Just because your buddy lost weight on a low-carb diet doesn't mean you're going to, right? Just because your friend dropped a dress size in two weeks on the latest celebrity diet plan, maybe that's not the right approach for you. And one of my favourite bits actually is the bit that the book was due to go to print. And I remember having this idea and I emailed Penguin or did I phone them? I think I emailed them saying, I'm really sorry, it can't go. What do you mean? I said, no, no, no, I've got a new line. I've got to add it in.

I thought that wrong. Come on, we've got it. No, no, no, this is going in the book. And it's just before the conclusion. And it's something like this. And when your friends ask you what plan you're doing, you can tell them you no longer follow anyone else's plans because you've been empowered to create your own. It's like your life, your plan, I think it is. Exactly. This is not the Dr. Chatterjee plan.

I walk people through all the various factors that may be contributing to their health, may be contributing to their excess weight, right? If that's what they're after. And then I help the reader create their own plan and design their own plan. Because you need that ownership. Long-term following my plan, I think that's going to help anyone. They need to be in charge. They need to understand their own behaviors, their body, why they make certain choices, their emotions. And there are so many practical tools to help people do that. You know, bringing it back to 2020 a second you know we've we've had these phrases haven't we about you know what is it uh corona stone the corona stone i think the media call it or the the the

what is it the quarantine 15 right basically it's kind of common parlance now isn't it that many people have or feel that they put on excess weight during 2020 yeah guilty there as well see even the language i'm using guilty i just said yeah yeah exactly that says it all and there's there's a whole section on language and how we how we go about changing that i guess what i was going to say is 2020 a lot of people put on Well, it makes perfect sense when you look at the science, right? So a lot of studies have been done on this. The best research that I can find suggests that 80% of us change our eating behavior in response to stress. Okay, 45% of us eat more, 35% of us eat less. So let's think about 2020. It's probably been

one of the most stressful and anxiety-inducing years in living memory for many people. If 45% of us, that's nearly half of us, eat more in response to stress, of course lots of people have put on weight, right? But it doesn't mean they need a new diet. It doesn't mean they need the latest January diet book because the diet may not be the problem. It's the stress that's causing the eating behavior. So maybe for an individual, oh, you need better tools to help you manage that stress. You need to find other ways, you know, and that's where there's a whole section on this in the book is to help people go if stress is the problem you don't need a new diet you need to you need to find another way to manage that stress maybe that freedom exercise i mentioned might be one of those

ways well that's that's the other thing i love about about the book is that like your other books you don't have to do everything in it for notice the benefit. And one of the things I thought about for myself, so I'll be honest, I've put on eight kilos since the first lockdown, which is a lot, bearing in mind I think I'm normally 74 and I'm 82 at the moment. And the last time I lost a load of weight was when I changed practice, which was in 2011. changed practice, which was in 2011. So in my old practice, one of my favourite podcast episodes of yours this year is the one with Daniel Lieberman, which I'll come to because this story's relevant to my weight loss. So I lost 10 kilos in weight within a year of changing practice. My diet didn't change. And the only thing that changed was in my old practice i used to have a button to summon the patient in through these locked doors and in my new practice i'd get up every 10 minutes to bring them in from the waiting room and you mentioned this in your book you know

it's called neat you know this non-exercise kind of thermogenic kind of activity which is basically not actually exercise like going to a gym but just movement you know and and it's and i'm not doing that at the moment because of course i'm doing most of my work on the phone so i'm not getting up as much um but you know and it only just hit me recently thinking hang on that's why i'm putting the weight back on and for me that's obviously very important but i think if you look at all the facets that you've mentioned there's something in there for everyone they'll relate to some part of it or all of it you know that's the that's the the genius of this i think i think it's great i mean what's interesting for me as i hear that um is movement is one component right so i mean to me as one of your close friends i think there's been a lot of stress

on you this year and so it could also be or could could it be that the stress in your life this year has contributed maybe to other behaviorsours to deal with that stress that may have potentially also contributed to the weight gain as opposed to the movement? Oh yeah, yeah. It's definitely more than one thing. It's never one thing. Well, the reason I say that is because

there's some really good work from Herman Ponser in the last few years. And it's this idea that moving more always leads to burning off more.'s what we were taught it's what we've always thought conventionally but it's not true right it doesn't always you know your body is a complex system so he has studied the Hadza tribe in Tanzania right we talk about the Hadza and we talk about in our course where we teach doctors um but they're this kind of hunter-gatherer tribe their lives are still relatively untouched by modernity and they're pretty they move a lot they run down antelopes don't they they do but they move a lot in the day much more than the

average sedentary westerner true yeah but what do they burn off each day 2,000 2,100 calories what is the average century westerner burn off each day 2,000 2,100 calories. What is the average sedentary Westerner burn off each day? 2,000, 2,100 calories, roughly. So they're moving more than us, but they're not burning off more calories. And I think there's a lot to unpick there for people because I feel we're punishing ourselves. We're pushing ourselves on treadmills. I'm not saying more movement won't lead to more calories being burned but we think if we've done something that gives another um that the calorie counter says 300 calories we think that's added on to the amount of energy we expended that day but it's not true in all cases sometimes your body will burn less from other areas to compensate and that's why improving health, but also trying to lose excess weight

requires, in my view, a holistic approach, a rounded approach. And that's why in the movement section, I say, don't move to burn off more calories. Move to make yourself feel good, to show your body that you're an active, thriving human who's engaging with life. That's what movement does. Because the truth is you can lose weight without doing any movements. That is absolutely true. Would I recommend it? Absolutely not. Because movement is one of the fastest ways to improve your self-esteem, which is why some of the daily habits in the book, there's one of them is there's the three daily habits are lift connect reflect and lift is about you know keep a dumbbell or a kettlebell in your kitchen and even if all you do each day when you

make a cup of tea it's three five bicep curls in each arm with it that's fine with me it's better than nothing isn't it not is it better than nothing you just no one no one feels worse after that no everyone feels better about themselves. It's a self-esteem issue. And actually, I kind of feel that the narrative around weight loss in society, I think it's incredibly problematic, which is one of the reasons, again, one of the many reasons why I wrote this book is because I want to challenge that. There are so many factors at play that we don't think about. For many people, weight loss is actually a self-esteem issue. It's not a physical issue. It's not a diet issue. It's not a movement issue. It's a how do you feel about yourself issue, right? It's about self-respect. And I

don't say that looking down at people. I say that with as much compassion as I can possibly muster, right? It's about trying to help us value ourselves and look in that mirror and like the person looking back at you. Because once you can love the person who looks back at you, I tell you, losing excess weight ain't as hard as it's been made out. So I think that's one thing. Other narratives out there that really frustrate me, and I need to talk about this, are just looking at food and movement in terms of calories only, right? Calories is the most divisive thing to talk about. I will say, I do understand that for some people, calorie counting does work for them. Okay, fine. I'm not trying to take away from anyone's experience on that. But for the vast majority of people who I've seen in 20 years, it doesn't tend to work well,

particularly in the long term. And I know someone who, when they were 11, 11 years old on holiday with their dads, they go on the treadmill, right? With their dad on holiday, on the treadmill, after half an hour, I think the calorie counts as something like 300 calories. And his dad says to him, well, don't suddenly get yourself a Mars bar. Boom. That starts off at the age of 11, years of a problematic relationship with foods. And I think we're at risk of doing that in society. We're reducing food and movement down to a number of calories. Food is more than that. Food is information for your body. It changes your hormones, your genetic expression,

your moods can all be changed by food. So much more than energy, movement. What it does for your mental health, for your self-esteem, it's incredible. But we've made it about calories. And I actually think the government, you know, I never get too political on purpose, but I think they're missing a big part of the picture. I feel a lot of the messaging is around shaming people, making them feel bad. I tell you what, if you work with real life people, shame never helps anyone in the long term. It might work for four to six weeks.

It doesn't work beyond that. What's the solution then? Because I mean, obviously, you have to kind of intervene at a grassroots level, you know, so children are your target, really, aren't they, in terms of this sort of idea of compassion and, you know, all the things that you talk about in the book in terms of our relationship with food and sitting around a table eating with others you know there's so much stuff in there what what's the what's the root cause of this you know because we live in an obesogenic environment don't we it's the environment number one for sure um you know if you took your great grandparents or our hunter-gatherer ancestors and put them in a time machine and put them into the 21st century i think within months you would also

see the same levels of overweightness and obesity that you see in the population today i don't think we've suddenly become the most lazy and gluttonous group of humans ever to walk you see in the population today. I don't think we've suddenly become the most lazy and gluttonous group of humans ever to walk the planet in the last 20, 30 years. No, the environment has changed. And I actually think, you know, I've been thinking about this recently. I think it's primarily an environmental issue. I think if we could, and this is why I kind of feel government does have a role, if we can help change various environments, hospital environments, school environments, which I make a big thing off in the books, I'm very passionate about what should and should not be served in schools, in my view, work environments, I feel you really make impacts without actually relying on the individual. Massive impact. impact without actually relying on the individual. Massive impact. I think some of the things like banning junk food advertising after... I think that's a step in the right direction. For sure, these things are going to help. We know. The research is there's so much on this. If you

live somewhere where there's only three fast food restaurants and a one-mile radius from your house compared to six, I think there's 40% less chance of you being overweight or obese. Schools, if schools ban snacking and eating in corridors and in classrooms, I think obesity rates go down by about 10%, 11% just without actually changing an individual's behavior. But I also think that there's a quote that when a man doesn't have a sense of meaning, they distract themselves with pleasure. I really think about this and how that relates. Why are 65%-ish of the UK population overweight or obese by the kind of standardized metrics? Which I know a lot of people question and that's a separate conversation.

But by those measurements, it's about 65%, I think, at the moment. What is it? It's an obesogenic environment. But I think what it is, is that we've always sought to numb our discomfort with things, whether it's gambling, whether it's alcohol, whether it's drugs. We've always done that, humans. I just don't think it's ever been easier to numb that discomfort with food. It's the easiest thing in the world to do. Even people who know it's not a good idea. I shared before what I've been doing in lockdown or what I did for a few weeks, right? It's not coming from the rational brain. These are emotional decisions for so many of us. And that's where I think the environment, you know, one of the things that's consistent in all my work is please try your best to control

the environments you can control. I don't bring that stuff that I'm trying to avoid eating into my house because if I do, I'm going to eat it. Now, some people say, oh, you need to improve your relationship. You need to teach yourself better self-control. Do you know what? I disagree. I disagree. The minute you walk out your front door these days, you have to use willpower, discipline, restraint everywhere you go. You got the train here today, right? I do mention euston station in the book where I sort of divulge a few other things, but that is just a haven of temptation. I'm not going to ask you on the mics whether you succumbed or not, but the point is, going to ask you on the mics uh whether you succumbed or not but but but the point is is that you have to use willpower up there let's not use it in the house as well as sleep what about sleep

some of my patients i've got them to improve their health lose excess weight just by tackling their sleep if you sleep five hours a night compared to eight hours right on average you will eat 22 percent more calories the following day over five days of not sleeping well, that's a whole extra day's worth of calories. Yet the narrative is around food and punishing exercise. I'm getting quite fired up now because this is why I wrote that book. It was really to go, look, I'm sick of hearing this narrative year in, year out. I'm sick of how the government try and play this and put blame on people. I'm not against personal responsibility, right? But it's not that at the expense of environmental responsibility. You can talk about personal responsibility

without blaming people. And I think it's both. I think we need to find better environments. Let's see how this goes. There was a slight campaigning element to this book in the final section about letters that people can use to write to their headteachers or their employers to change the environments in their school and in their workplace to make it easier to make the healthy choices. I hope people get on board with that. I really do. I feel that all teachers and headteachers are trying to do their best. I just don't feel that they really understand that a lot of these foods are designed to be addictive, right? You can't use willpower. There's this great article in the New England Journal of Medicine in this editorial in 2015, I think it was Deborah Cohen, talking about how most of our food choices are automatic. They are so influenced by the

environment. I just don't see a case anymore in a world and where in the UK where one in three kids start secondary school. So at the age of 11, one in three kids are overweight or obese, right? I just don't see a case anymore for schools serving anything other than healthy food. I really don't. I don't think that's a nanny state. I think parents and families have got every right to feed their kids whatever they want. What I don't want as a parent is school taking that away from me and putting this stuff in front of my children. And even worse still, and I get lots of parents write to me about this, it is toxic. It's not neutral, right? Because what it does is the families who are really trying hard, not only do you undermine their messaging, but then you risk

those kids becoming social outcasts. If you're not the one having the lollipops and the chocolates. This week at my children's school, on two consecutive days, first day Diet Coke was being given out, right? Next day was, I think, fizzy Ribena or, I mean, and I get it, right?

It's the trying to celebrate Christmas. But there's other ways. There's completely other ways. It's not, it's not, I'm not saying, I'm not telling parents what to do with their children. I'm saying that the schools, workplaces, hospitals, let's get these environments working for us. If we can't do that for our kids, what are we going to do? Yeah, it's interesting. There are two things that spring to mind.

One is that in France, they have this thing called Lagouté. Have you heard of that? It's basically where children come back from school and they get a sweet treat. It's normally a cake or something sweet and as a result they don't expect anything at any other time of day because they know they're going to get it if they want it which i think is really interesting and actually you talk a bit about the french and their their in the book and the other thing is a memory actually of yourself me and jeremy when we were in san francisco airport about three years ago and um

the food on the flight was abysmal won't name the airline but so we thought we'd sort of eat something before getting on the plane back and um so we went around whatever it was i can't remember the name of the store that's sort of in the airport terminal but there was just nothing there and it's a lesson to me and actually talking to you now makes me realize that you know my eye and actually jeremy's as well i think just didn't catch the same things as yours and and we we just gave up and went oh you know we'll just have to eat you know the the crap on the plane which was just inedible and um and you sort of suddenly came back with these two massive trees of celery and like a kilo of almond butter and we just sort of sat there sort of like munching

through it's really tasty and i was like well how we we didn't even see that you know we just sort of walked past it it didn't sort of register with us as something that we could eat but you know do you know what i mean like you know and i think that changes as well when your palate changes and your your kind of eye catches other things do you know what i mean you see what you yeah yeah it's the same with anything it's like if you you can train yourself to see the positive in people right right? If you're always looking at the negative in people and wishing things were other than the way they are, that becomes a habit. But you can train yourself to look for those choices that you may want to make more of. And again,

there's nothing wrong with people not making those choices if they don't want to. Or they go, you know what? I'm in an airport. I'm with my mates. I want to just have a burger and fries, right? I am not here to tell anybody else what they should do with their life. I'd like to think that's an approach that's been with me in all my years of seeing patients and in every book. I'm not telling someone what to do.

I'm trying to share information that I hope causes them to reflect and go oh i could do that i might want to change things a little bit do you know what i mean when you talk about blissy foods as well we didn't touch on that yeah blissy foods i mean that was my way of trying to you know i love the creative process of writing it's like how can i really get this across to people? But, you know, there's a whole section on how certain foods are made with certain combinations of fat, sugar, and salt that really make it very hard to resist. Can we say they're truly addictive? That is a very controversial area. Can one truly be addicted to something that we need? You know, we need food to survive. We don't need alcohol or gambling to survive. I like to stay away from the controversy. I let the academics fight about that.

We can say that certain foods have addictive-like qualities, and there's certain foods that we find very hard to resist. And it's because of the way they're designed, and this has been done intentionally. So certain combinations of foods will spike a lot of the hormone dopamine, which is a chemical in your brain. And dopamine gives you a feeling of intense reward, but it's also called the learning molecule because what dopamine does is it helps teach you to repeat that same behavior over and over again. Such to the point, and if smoky bacon, for example, or salted caramel, these things didn't exist 40 years ago. No one would put those two things together. But now they do. And I bet you someone is listening to this or watching this right now, and their stomach has started to water, their mouth has started to water, the salivating and the thought of smoky bacon,

salted caramel, right? That's the thing with dopamine, is that once you've conditioned yourself to that dopamine release, then even in anticipation of the food, you release dopamine. Even the mere sight of the food or the smell of the food spikes the dopamine release in your brain. of the food or the smell of the food spikes the dopamine release in your brain. So many of us find it very hard to resist. We walk past a bakery and there's that smell. And we're wondering why when we're on the latest diet plan, why five minutes later, are we still in there ordering two pounds of chocolate? It's still so evocative, isn't it? Yeah. But when you understand that it's your hormones and it's these brain chemicals and it's not because you're a failure or you lack willpower it's because certain foods have been engineered that way right at least if you know that you can stop beating yourself up

there's so much in there i i absolutely love it i always ask you this every year but you know you um what's in store for next year for you um look i think one thing that this year has taught us is frankly we don't know what the next 12 months looks like when we had this conversation last year i don't think any one of us would have predicted the way life has changed for all of us in 2020. So with that caveat in place, what's in store? I guess, I mean, I'm always challenging myself, right? I'm always pushing myself to say,

how can you simplify your message? How can you get this message to reach more people? Simplifying is something I always think about. It's something I've always, and I think I've got better at it in the recent books, is how can you distill down a message down to its absolute essence? Because simplicity means people go and actually make change, right? I want to reach new audiences. I still see a very sick society out there. I see a society... I'm an optimist, but the pessimistic part of me thinks that the impact of 2020 is going to bite. And it's going to bite in a way that I think we're going to have, or we're potentially at risk of a mental health epidemic.

I think what we saw in 2020 was the sort of thing you see with human nature in general, or even in medicine, with a huge focus on acute. We look at the acute problems, the short-term problems. we look at the acute problems, the short-term problems. But I don't think there's been enough of a conversation this year about the negative impact of keeping social animals that humans are away from each other, not touching each other, not cuddling each other, not connecting with each other. Teenagers at a very formative part of their life, not seeing their friends. We don't probably have time today to get into the pros and cons of both sides of that. But I strongly feel that A, we've not spoken about that enough. I've had Professor Francis McGlone on this show before talking about, you know, one of the world's

leading researchers in touch and how when we touch another human being and we stroke them, that it does something in our emotional brain. It lowers levels of the stress hormone cortisol. Many people have been starved of touch this year. Starved. I think that's going to bite at some point. So for me, the optimist part of me thinks we've also all learned some lessons about ourselves this year, and hopefully we'll really value relationships and connections and the thought that, hey, we've not managed to see our friends and our family and our loved ones this year anywhere near to the level as much as we would have liked to. So the optimist part of me feels,

you know what? Maybe this will be a turning point for humanity in terms of what we value. Going back to how do we define success? What is success for you? So what are my plans for next year? Personally, I want to get a better definition of what success looks like for me. So at the end of the year, I can actually assess myself and go, have I met my definition of success, not society's. But professionally, it's about reaching more people. How can I reach more people? How can I simplify to take health outside the health space. Health is not something that is separate from the rest of our lives. Health is an integral part of who we are. You know, the podcast is called Feel Better, Live More. When we feel better in ourselves,

we get more out of our life. We get more out of our work, out of our relationships, out of our free time. And I kind of feel that this is what I really try and do on this show, but I'm going to try and think of more ways next year to really expand that. I want to show people that you can live the best life that you want to live and health is going to help you do that even better do you know what i mean so that's i think what drives me so i'm going to be thinking yeah i mean that's got me quite fired up i'm going to be i'm going to be thinking of how i can do that potentially yeah you're you're busy guy aren't you i mean you have you always have a lot on um what about downtime is that something

that you're going to be looking to prioritize as well well i do i mean it may look as though i'm busy and but when you're off you're off sort of thing yeah i i'm i i feel the way i can get so much done is i can be very regimented about certain things. So a few things for me, like I have a morning routine every morning, which revolves around solitude where I do, you know, a bit of breath work, a bit of meditation, a bit of movement, a bit of positive mindset stuff while I'm drinking a hot drink. Okay. I am so much more efficient as a human being when I've given myself that time in the morning. I absolutely prioritise my sleep. As you know, I go to bed very early.

I've noticed the unread texts that are sent at 10pm. It's like, oh, he's gone to bed. Yeah, but I do. I know that I prioritise and it's like this kind of non-negotiable, I will be in bed for this amount of hours. And then I will switch off at various times. Like if I'm having dinner with the kids and the family, there is no technology in sight. I'm not particularly good at getting back to people on email or text for that matter um something i need to really wrestle with because i don't want to let people down but also that i kind of i prioritize me and my family first if that means i've got 30 unread emails i don't get back to i've learned to be okay with that

so i do have downtime. I think I prioritize it more and more as each year goes. But I would argue that it's the structured downtime that allows me to do so many seemingly different things without it burning me out. Yeah, that's great. We could talk forever, couldn't we? And I think, you know i just yeah it'd be interesting to see where we are this time next year um but i'm sure there's lots in

store but you know i love this book i think it's great and i really hope it does as well as your other books they've all been bestsellers haven't they the pressure's on. Yeah. I mean, look, pressure is a perception. I'm a human. So of course I know how well the first three books are sold. Of course I would like this one to do as well, if not better. Of course I would. I am a human being. But if it isn't, it doesn't change who I am. It doesn't mean that I have failed. It doesn't mean that I am a failure. It doesn't mean that it's even a bad book. Do you know what I mean? And that's a big difference. And that actually is sort of the message in the book as well. It's kind of like,

it's not your worth. It's not who you are. I've tried in life in general to divorce myself from the outcome of what I do, whether it's in health changes. It's like, it's about the process. whether it's in health changes. It's about the process. It's about the journey. It's not about the destination. Easy to say, very hard to do. And really with this book, if we go back right full circle, control the controllables, what can I control? I can control how deeply I think about these ideas. I can control how many times I try and rewrite and craft paragraphs to really move people. I can control up to the point of publication or till it goes off to be printed. I can control changing it. But once it's done, I can't do anything about it anymore. I am very, very proud of this book. I believe it will change the lives of every single person who reads it.

But if people don't pick it up and read it, I still like the person that I see when I look in the mirror each morning. Yeah, that's what it's about, isn't it? And I hope, honestly, that it gets you much closer to that magic 100 million number. And I'm sure it will. It is a real piece of work. Honestly, congratulations on it. And all the best for 2021.

You too, buddy. So what did you think? Did you enjoy the conversation? Did you enjoy the mics being turned and hearing more from me? I certainly hope so. As you heard, my brand new book, Feel Great, Lose Weight is now available to buy. It is out in the UK on the 31st of December, 2020, and will be coming out at the same time in Australia, New Zealand, and India. For people in the US and Canada, it will be out in March, but you can go and pre-order right now on amazon.com and those countries if you wish.

Now the book's available as a paperback, as an ebook, but also as an audiobook, which I am narrating. Here is a very short clip from that audiobook, where I briefly discuss a term that I expand upon within the book called blissy foods. Does this mean we crave junk food in the same way we might crave alcohol, nicotine, or even cocaine? Can blissy food be truly addictive? I'm the first to acknowledge that the concept of food addiction is controversial, but we

do know enough about these blissy foods to say that they're extremely hard to resist and that millions of people struggle to do so every day. We also know that the brain systems that are involved with craving, enjoying, and repeating the experience of eating junk food are the same as the systems that are involved with craving, enjoying, and repeating the experience of taking drugs. To me, whether or not our behavior around blizzy foods can technically be called an addiction is of little importance. We should let the academics fight among themselves about the exact use of the term. What we can say with absolute certainty is that these foods have

an addictive-like quality and they trigger addiction-like behaviours. Hope you enjoyed that little clip from the audiobook. If you go to the show notes page for this episode on my website drchastity.com, you can see all the book links, all the international book links, as well as links to the other podcast episodes that Ayan and I referred to in our conversation today. Before we end, I want to say a big thank you to all of you who listen each week and take the time to share these conversations with your friends and family. I know many of you also take time out to review the podcast on your podcast platforms. All I can say is thank you. I really do appreciate it. A big thank you as always to

my wonderful wife, Vedanta Chatterjee, for producing this week's podcast and to Richard Hughes for audio engineering. I hope you have a wonderful week. In just a few days on New Year's Day, I'm releasing an extra, very special bonus conversation off the podcast. It is one you will not want to miss, so make sure you have pressed subscribe. And as we end 2020, coming into the new year, always remember, you are the architect of your own health. Making lifestyle changes always worth it.

Because when you feel better, you live more.