Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - #149 Joe Wicks on The Power of Positivity

Episode Date: January 20, 2021

My guest on today’s episode needs no introduction. Whether you’ve read his books, tried a recipe on social media or joined in with his PE (Physical Education) With Joe workouts, Joe Wicks has been inspiring wellbeing for nearly a decade. Behind the success is a truly inspirational – and surprising – story of a man following his passion against the odds. When I spoke to Joe, he’d just raised £2.5m for Children in Need by doing a 24-hour fitness challenge and had been awarded an MBE. But, as he tells me, struggles at school and family problems could so easily have derailed his ambition. As an 11-year-old at school, Joe would motivate his classmates to get more out of PE. This is a man who knew his calling in life from an early age and is now doing the same on a global scale. This is an authentic and touching conversation. It’s easy to assume Joe’s success must be driven by an empire, a slick marketing machine, but nothing could be further from the truth. Family is everything to him and he opens up to me on topics like parenthood and coping when you’re the child of an addict. He has great advice on the importance of consistency and self-belief when striving for your goals and believes that optimism, compassion and healthy living are choices that are within everyone’s reach. As well as being full of practical tips, this episode is a brilliant chance to get to know more about a man who’s familiar to many of us – yet has hidden depths. I hope it puts a smile on your face.  Show notes available at drchatterjee.com/149 Follow me on instagram.com/drchatterjee/ Follow me on facebook.com/DrChatterjee/ Follow me on twitter.com/drchatterjeeuk DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website. 

I do think that every person that's mastered their craft or their art or what they're good at, there's always been a struggle. I've just trained myself to be positive and be optimistic in every situation and that's something you can really learn to do and it feels so good when you realise you can be positive, you can live your life not moaning about things and actually taking control because when you do that, when you realise you can react differently and you can see things positively, life is better and you can be so much happier. Hi, my name is Rangan Chasjee. Welcome to Feel Better, Live More. My guest on today's episode needs no introduction, whether you've read his books, tried a recipe on social media, or joined in with his PE with

Joe workouts, Joe Wicks has been inspiring people to get moving for almost a decade. The behind the success is a truly inspirational and surprising story of a man following his passion against the odds. When I spoke to Joe, he had just raised two and a half million pounds When I spoke to Joe, he had just raised £2.5 million for the Children in Need charity by doing a 24-hour fitness challenge. But as he tells me, struggles at school and family problems could so easily have derailed his ambitions. As an 11-year-old, Joe would motivate his classmates to get more out of their PE lessons. This is clearly a man who knew his calling in life from an early age and is now doing the same on a global scale. This really is an authentic and touching conversation. You see, it's really easy to assume that Joe's success must be driven

by an empire, a slick marketing machine, but nothing could be further from the truth. Family is everything to Joe, and he opens up to me on topics like parenthood and coping when you're the child of an addict. Joe's got some really great advice on the importance of consistency and self-belief when striving for your goals, and believes that optimism, compassion, and healthy living are choices that are within everyone's reach. As well as being full of practical tips, this episode is a brilliant chance to get to know a little bit more and quite a few things that you may not have known and may not have expected and now on to my conversation with the one and only joe wicks dr rongan chatterjee let's do it let's do it so joe how you doing i'm good mate i've had a really

busy weekend i don't know if you saw but i took part in a 24-hour p challenge for children in need so that was quite intense. I did see indeed. I was basically going to ask you, how was it and how are you feeling now? Well, it was tough. It was difficult more mentally, just having to be awake for 24 hours. I like my sleep. I really value sleep. I love it. To be awake for 24 hours exercising, it was quite low intensity really. I was cycling and rowing and walking. But then I had to do five 20-minute HIIT workouts throughout that time. That was quite tough.

But then also, I didn't realize this, but when I got there, it was guest after guest. I was presenting a live show. I thought I was going to turn up with my iPad, watch a series of Netflix, listen to some podcasts and just zone out. But I was literally interviewed back to back. So it was quite just draining. I was so tired by the end of it. Yeah. Well, I was going to say I can imagine, but I can't really imagine. I guess the only thing, I'm just trying to think to my junior doctor days and doing like 36 hour shifts and the way you felt after that. But I can't compare basically in a nutshell. What was the hardest moment for you personally whilst you were doing it? Well, I had this wonderful guy called

Dr. Greg. I don't know if you've met him before, but he's wonderful. He does a lot of endurance stuff. He's done a lot of 24-hour challenges for children in need and whatnot. And if it wasn't for him, I think I would have quit because my lower back got so tight just from standing up all day. And then I'd be rowing and running and jogging and boxing. But every hour on the hour, I got a five minute break. So he was clicking my back. He was really proper, like rolling out my muscles in my back and doing my feet. And we changed socks and shoes and all that. And that really helped. And he was so, because he's done so many positive, he's done so many 24 hour challenges. He was so positive. Like he was such an amazing energy to be around. He was so, because he's done so many positive, he's done so many 24 hour challenges. He was so positive.

Like he was such an amazing energy to be around. He was like, you're going to get through it. It's going to be tough. It's going to suck between sort of 2am and 6am. So he was so good at coaching me through it. And that definitely helped a lot. It's interesting you saying that Joe, because you're someone who is so well known for many things, you know, inspiring people, motivating people,

energizing people. I guess the thing I really respect about you, I guess more than anything is your genuineness. And it's the little things, I always notice that you always pay attention to the little things, you remember who you're speaking to, just little basic things that actually are really quite impressive, particularly when someone has a profile like yours. But it's interesting for me that you're talking about, Greg, keeping you going mentally and getting you through your challenge, because that's kind of what you do for us and for the public, right? When we feel we can't go on or, you know, it's not my day, I can't get motivated, you're able to do that for us in the same way that Greg did that for you.

Well, going back to the first point around being grateful for people that are involved, you know, I really believe in, it was a team effort, you know, from the BBC Radio 2 DJs to the technicians and everyone was social distance, obviously, but everyone that took part, you know, it really made that an amazing thing. And it was a challenge. It was really entertaining. And because of that teamwork, we raised 2.5 million pounds. I couldn't have done that on my own. I couldn't have done it without, you know, Zoe Ball and Sarah Cox and all the people that were pushing it for 24 hours consistently. So that was a big part of it. And I'm very,

I'm very aware of that. So whenever I do these events, I always want to thank everyone and really kind of let them know that it was a team effort. I think it's important to remember that. And in terms of the motivation thing, so I had never done a 24 hour challenge. So in my head, I was like, this is going to be really tough. I don't know if I've got the motivation and the mental strength to get through it. But because Dr. Greg was there, so positive, so upbeat saying that you're going to be fine one hour at a time. It helped me, you know, he coached me through it. But now I've done a 24-hour challenge. And if you said to me, Joe, could you do it again? Because I've pushed through that barrier in my head, that mental barrier, that limiting belief that it's going to be so hard, I'm going to quit at

like 2 a.m., I do believe I could do another one. And I could do maybe a harder one. I could do an outdoor one or running or rowing or an endurance event. I do think when we achieve something, when you push yourself beyond that physical barrier, that limiting belief, then you start to really think, actually, I could do, I could have done another 10 hours, you know, I really could have, but it would have been, it would have been horrible. But I think it's just pushing through those barriers and believing in yourself. I mean, I imagine that there's a really beautiful mirror here, like you hearing that story with you, but also just thinking about what you do for so many people. So you, I'm sure have had hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of messages over the years in terms of what your content has done for people. And I guess one of the things that must come is that you help people do more than they

thought possible, just like you did last week. Well, that's my gift to the world. I talk about this a lot. I've got this energy inside me and I know I can inspire and motivate and I love it. I'm so driven by that. I'm so purpose-driven. And a lot of people will look at me from a distance and think it's like this big marketing machine and And it's all about YouTube views and book sales. But that all came completely organically. You know, it was never intentional. Even this year with the fundraising, I didn't plan on being a fundraiser. I just love doing stuff with schools. I love getting kids moving. And I needed to do those P with Joe workouts to help people. So I just very much I focus on that. I focus on

what I'm good at. And that is inspiring, you know, young children and adults to move and feel good and smile and laugh. And I'm going to try and do it as long as I possibly can. Yeah, it's incredible. You really are inspiring. That energy, that sort of passion that I think is so engaging for everyone. And I'm sure is one of the many reasons why you've been so successful and so impactful. What's interesting for me, Joe, is that I've seen your messaging change over a period of years. When I'm looking at your new book and I was right at the start of it, there's a real focus now saying you're sort of more focused on internal well-being for people rather than external looks. And I find that really interesting. So I'm

interested as to how did that come about? Is that something that just gradually changed as you started getting feedback or perhaps has becoming a father changed that for you? There's various factors in that. I mean, I was very much driven by, you know, I was really skinny when I was younger and I wanted to change the way I looked, wanted to go to the gym and get, you know, get stronger. I didn't see it as a mental health thing. But when I look back to my childhood and, you know, my upbringing, it was quite chaotic. It was stressful. You know, my mum and dad were arguing a lot. And I definitely now looking back, exercise was my therapy, you know, PE was my therapy, doing after school sports, it was like that was my thing. And, and so I've always had that fitness element in my life that

I didn't really know was about mental health. But you know, over the over the years, I've got my online fitness business, which has obviously been very successful. And from the 10s of 1000s of testimonials that I read, I started to see a trend. And in the early days, it was about fat loss, it was, you know, lean in 15, transform the way early days, it was about fat loss. It was, you know, lean in 15, transform the way you look, burn body fat, get lean for summer and all that kind of language and that narrative, because that's what I thought people wanted. And although that is a big motivation, people do want to change the way they look. When I read the testimonials after the 90 days, that's where the magic is. That's where you realize people are doing it because they feel good. They feel energized.

They've got more confidence. They're more patient with their children. They're more ambitious at work. You know, it can really change your life in so many more ways than just the fat loss and the before and after image. So this book really focuses on that. I talk about, you know, I'm not a life coach, but I've just asked a few questions like, you know, what triggers you? You know, what, what caused you to go on a little binging session? Or what makes you neglect your health and fitness? And what is a successful day to you? So that you can start to see these signs and really tap into the mental health benefits of exercise. Because once you do, I think that's where you're going to get success. Yeah. No, I love it. And actually, that section you just mentioned, those questions on that double page, they're really good.

Yeah, I'm just looking at it now. It's nice in the table because I had the idea was to base, I call this the chapter, the section, let's get into the psychology of things to help you understand what your motivations are, what makes you feel demotivated, what makes you fall off the wagon, what makes you feel good. And you might start to realize things about you. And it could have been a trigger or a moment in your life that you don't really know or you know you haven't thought about so by uncovering these things you may not have trauma and like loads of trouble in the past but there could have been a moment or a relationship that knocked your confidence or you know got you you know put you off the gym and so I'm trying to

establish you know like one of the questions is what does a successful day look like to you because if you know what that looks like you can start to plan for it and start to put little goals in a little kind of um habit forming things and then you know what does an unsuccessful day look like to you because by seeing these moments and trends you can start to kind of see it coming and maybe put something in place that's going to stop you from um go and have a blowout or turn into alcohol or junk food? And these are just nice little questions that I really think can open up your mindset. And the final one is, do you believe you can succeed? Now, that's the most important question because

so many people, when it comes to dieting and fitness and transformation, have already felt that they're going to fail because they've tried so many diets in the past. But my approach to fitness and nutrition and food is all about, you know, longevity and sustainability and enjoying your food and exercising regularly to feel good all the time. Yeah. What does a successful day look like to you, Joe? For me, a successful day is definitely, you know, centered around my family and being with my kids, being present at some point. So whether it's going down and having breakfast together, going for a nice walk, I really need that.

I need that part of the day. And I love doing, so bath time and story time. Like we, you know, we give the kids a bath together. We sit down and we read. Indy's a bit older, so I can read with Indy. And I love that. I love that moment. So that's really important to me, the connection to my wife and kids. I need to do a workout. Like for me,

it's about mental health. I was obviously very driven, being lean, having the abs and that, but I'm 35 now, I'm a dad of two. And your motivations do start to change. You know, I want to be lean, I want to be strong and healthy, but I just want to have energy. And for me, when I exercise, I'm so much more patient. I'm such a nicer person to be around. It's kind of like I go up to the gym, I release that stress, I do that HIIT workout. And when I walk down into the living room and there's chaos and the two kids are screaming at me, I'm just different. I can take it easier. I can be more understanding. So that comes through fitness. And then the final thing would be, you know,

a really good day of food. So, you know, three healthy meals where I haven't gone down the shop and bought a tub of Ben and Jerry's or eaten loads of Crispin chocolate. Because I do do that. I have emotional days where I just get stressed or I've got loads on my mind and I just want to go and get a takeaway on a Ben and Jerry's, you know, and I do do that, but I don't feel great for it. I always feel tired. It always really wears me out. And the final thing, the last thing which I now really truly emphasize, I know you talk a lot about this in your book, the importance of sleep, you know, it's so important for the whole ecosystem of your life to have a good night's sleep. And so many people have that mentality of I'll sleep, you know, sleep when I'm older, I'll sleep when I'm dead. But it's so

important for your mindset, your mental health, and for all the other things, for the food, for the fitness. If you're not getting a good night's sleep, everything else goes out the window. Yeah, for sure. I mean, thanks for sharing that. I think it's great for people to get an insight as to what a perfect day looks like for Joe Wicks. You mentioned sometimes when you're feeling really stressed or there's a lot going on you'll get a takeaway tub of ice cream and you know probably scoff your face with it and you don't feel great when you do that and I think this is a point worth sort of talking about because a lot of people as I'm sure you've seen that is often the trigger to get them off plan. Or they've made a plan that

they're going to get healthier. They want to improve their physical health, their mental health. But one bad day or one, I shouldn't even call it a bad day, I guess one decision that's less good than the decisions they want to make often throws them off. Has that ever happened to you? And how does guilt play into that? Because guilt, I think, is a very toxic emotion that when people do that without recognising that, hey, look, you know what? I had a stress all day. That was my way of dealing with the stress. It's very different when you have an understanding about why you did something compared to when you actually are kind of ridden with guilt.

There's definitely, for me, there's no guilt around it. You know, when I have a day, like let's say, I don't call it a cheat day, but if I have a blowout, you know, and I go around the shop and do a choccy run and I'll get a massive bar of chocolate and a tub of ice cream and I'll get popcorn and then some fruit pastas, I'll go for it, you know, a can of Coke. And I do it, but instantly my body rejects,

not rejects it, but it struggles a bit. It struggles to break down all those sugars. I get cramps. I get, you know, instantly on the toilet. It's not good for me. So although it feels like a treat, you think, oh, eating a box of Ferrero Rocher is a treat, but it's not really a treat. So for me, there's no emotional baggage and kind of guilt, but it's just like physically, I feel drained and I just go, you know what? I'm not going to do that again. It reminds me why I eat good food. You know, when I put that kind of stuff in my system, it really does make me realize why I love cooking healthy food at home and why I exercise. But I do have days where I can literally

go upstairs to the gym or downstairs to the kitchen and it might not be chocolate. It might be like eight Weetabix and four slices of toast of marmalade and four crumpets of butter. I can eat, it depends what mood I'm in. Sometimes I go for the fitness and I feel fantastic. Other days, you know, I get, I go for the food and I have a little blowout, but I still don't feel guilty about it. I just go, you know what, that was today, tomorrow morning, get up, do a HIIT session and use the energy. Like that's, I've just consumed loads of energy, get up and use it. So I don't let it become a week or two weeks. And that's what I think a lot of people do. They get dragged into like a negative mindset where they go, I've blown it now. I'm just going to keep going. And then a week or two weeks go by. I always just say,

you know, it's a day and it's just, you've had that moment in time, move on and start again in the morning. Yeah. Yeah. Great advice. Jay, you mentioned earlier, and I've heard you talk about this before, I think once, that you were teased a little bit about being skinny. And it's something that really connected with me because I think I've shared this on the podcast before, but I know I've got this memory. I can't remember when it was exactly. I think it was at secondary school. And I think I remember being in the changing rooms and taking my top off to get changed for PE or football or whatever it was and feeling really self-conscious that I was skinny and you could see my ribs. And that drove me because at about the same time, you were getting men's health coming out and seeing kind of ripped men on the front covers and thinking, I want to look like that. And I think for me, it did drive me to start becoming

obsessed with press-ups and sit-ups. Like literally, I would do them every night. And I'm not convinced it was a good thing. I mean, I think it got me fit, but I think the drive behind it was not necessarily as productive a drive as it could have been. I just wonder how that was for you because it sounds as though you also had some insecurities that drove you to start working out. I wonder how you dealt with that and whether that's still something that bothers you or whether you've let it go and left it behind you. I definitely have a similar experience in terms of, I was, yeah, very skinny, always, you know, I was really skinny, like from a kid, you know,

skinny legs, skinny arms, no muscle. And my brother, Nicky would say like, it was like, it was the one thing that just really would get to me. Like, and I remember him saying, you know, you've got skinny legs and it would be hit. Maybe a couple of kids at school said it. And yeah, like it was just one of those things that you don't realize that it does stick in your mind. It does affect your confidence. It's like if someone says you've got a crooked tooth, but all your teeth are straight except one crooked tooth. All you can think about is getting braces or Invisalign. It's these things that plant in your mind. I was very skinny.

I remember when I got to 16, I got my first job at Wilkinson's in Epsom. I was working on the till at Wilkinson's, now called Wilco's. And I got 50 pounds a week. And I used that money to join Holmes Place in Epsom. And I remember the gym membership was like 70 pounds a month. So it was really expensive, but I just valued it.

I didn't want to go down the park and spend that money on cigarettes and booze or whatever other people might've been doing or spending it on trainers. I literally used £70 a month. I joined the gym and I used to go every day after school. So at 16 years old, I'd walk from my school in Epsom to the homes place in the middle of the centre of the town. And I would go there for an hour or two hours, just lifting weights, didn't know what I was doing. Then I'd have a sauna and a spa and chill out. But it was just something I always valued. I always just got into it. And from that moment, it's been in my DNA ever since. Yeah. I mean, it strikes me when I look at your life story, Joe, that

you've always been doing this. The scales just change, but it sounds as though this is what you've always done. Like I've heard a story about what you were like in PE. I don't know if it's true or not. Not everything we read online is true, but is it true that in your PE lessons, you were the first out and you were trying to motivate and sort of gear and get everyone going? It's a hundred percent true. And the more I talk about that experience to journalists, the more it becomes clear that, because when I was in school, I was very disruptive. I had a very short attention span. So in maths, English and science, I would have annoyed you. I would have distracted you. I would have been leaning back on my chair, you know, being a clown. But when it came to PE,

I loved it. I ran down there. I wanted to be straight on there, getting dressed. And, you know, when I was a kid and you're playing PE, you can't play football on your own. So you need a team. So I would be rounding up the kids saying, come on, get your kit on. And then there'd be people dragging their feet going, that's not for me. They'd be more into their tech or their kind of creative stuff. But I still tried to get everyone to do their best and really encourage them to have a go at it. And so I do think even then I was a little kind of personal trainer, if you like, and rounding the kids up saying, come on, it's tennis time, grab the kit, let's go. And I'd be running to the shed and picking things up because the quicker on it's tennis time grab the kit let's go and I'll be running to the shed and picking things up because the quicker I got that lesson going the

happier I was so if it dragged out and I only got a half an hour session I'd be upset so I would really be trying to get everyone on the same page and that is quite ironic when you think that now I do that as a living but the whole PE with Joe thing the lockdown workouts I was supposed to be a PE teacher I just didn't have the patience I went to work as a teaching assistant for a year. So I have come full circle. I was a personal trainer, running boot camps, doing one-to-ones. Then I went on this UK tour. Then I've done PE with Joe and I've come full circle. I'm doing what I always knew I was going to do, which was inspire kids to move and exercise. Yeah. Joe, I tell you, that gives me

tingles hearing that because it's like you were doing that probably at 10, 11, 12, whatever it was. You were being the body coach at school. You strike me as someone who's living your life. You're not living the life that society expects of you or what other people may want you to do. You found your passion. It just so happens you're doing it on a global scale, but you could just as easily have not been doing it on a global scale. And I get the impression from you that if you were a PE teacher in a school helping 30 kids in PE class, of course, we'll never know, but I get the impression from you that you'd be happy and content doing that. Do you know what I mean? I think so too. I really do. I love being a personal trainer. I love doing bootcamps. I

just kind of outgrew it in the sense that I wanted to reach more people. And just by chance, I got on Instagram and I started sharing videos and started sharing recipes. And I never had, you have to understand, when I started sharing my videos on Instagram, I did not think I was going to get approached by a book publisher to create books. I did not start my YouTube channel to do PE with Joe and have 80 million views. And I, I didn't do PE with Joe to get an MBE, but when you're so driven and so passionate, you just do it. You don't know why it's like an energy behind me, just pushing me forward. And I've always had that. And I do, like you said, if I wasn't successful as the personal trainer and the body coach, I probably would have gone into teaching. I probably would have been a school teacher and I would have been very happy doing it. Yeah. It's so lovely that because

I think many of us in life, we're struggling. We're trying to live someone else's life. We're trying to do what we think we should do rather than actually what we're meant to do. And it's a very, very inspiring story. When I think of that energy, Joe, I'm sort of thinking, where does that come from? Because there must have been setbacks along the way. Look, I know that I've heard that you tried to do bootcamp classes and there was some times when no one would rock up to your bootcamp classes, very much like a lot of bands who now play stadiums. I said, yeah, we played to no people in bars before. It's like, it's as if that was never the goal. It's like, no, I love playing music. So I'll play to no people or I'll play to a thousand people. It's like, you love helping people. If no one turns up, you're going to keep rocking up day after day.

And it's certainly not an overnight success, is it? Well, I talk about that a little bit recently about, I've talked about that recently, that my success is actually an eight-year overnight success. It looks like I had all these ideas and pee with Joe, but I was actually doing UK tours. I've been doing this for four or five years now, trying to go to schools and engage children in fitness. So it was just the right time with the lockdown. But yeah, I do think that every person that's mastered their craft or their art or what they're good at, there's always been a struggle. You know, there's always been a time where no one turned up, where no one was booking tickets to your concert or coming to

your bootcamp. But I never for one second thought I'm going to give up now and go and work at Holmes Place or David Lloyd. I just wanted to be my own boss. I wanted to have my own business and I would use the energy. Once I packed up my kit and I'd go over to Richmond Station, I lived in Surbiton, so I would fly outside Surbiton Station and Richmond Station morning, night, all through rush hour. And I hated it. I was so embarrassed. I didn't want to do it, but it's all I could afford. I couldn't afford to do any marketing. That was all I could do. was so embarrassed. I didn't want to do it, but it's all I could afford. I couldn't afford to do any marketing. That was all I could do. And I applied that principle to Instagram when I posted my first lean in 15 video. All my mates laughed at me, thought I was a plonker. Everyone was telling me to go back to my bootcamps. YouTube, when I started that, no one subscribes, no one's doing

your videos. What makes you keep filming them on your terrace, on your own with your camera and uploading them? And now today, 6 million people a month do those workouts. But the key thing is that that would never have happened unless I put in the work in the early days and I believed in myself and believed in the purpose of that YouTube channel, which is essentially the home of home workouts. It's free content. I've got my books, I've got my online business, but this is about free content which anyone can take part in. And for me, honestly, my greatest achievement is Pee With Joe lockdown and the growth of my YouTube channel, because that's content that anyone anywhere in the world, whether you're living in the Philippines, India, South America, Australia, you can go onto that channel and do a workout completely for free and 6 million people a month

for doing that. And that's just because I've been so consistent and never gave up. Yeah. I mean, what a message for anyone listening to this who is confused in their life and is trying to find where to go next and sort of even hearing you say that, that, you know, your mates were laughing at you when you posted your first video. Mate, who the hell do you think you are putting out content like that? You know, no one's going to like that sort of stuff, but you know, um, it's, it's, it's about having that belief, isn't it? It's how having that belief, you say, you don't know where that comes from. I mean, is there anything in your childhoods, if you think back, is there anything, do you feel that has given you that extra belief? Cause not everyone will go the extra mile like you have. Just taking a quick break to give a shout

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So I'll give you a little bit of background about my childhood quickly to explain, you know, my history. My mum left home at 15. You know, she she wasn't educated she didn't get any GCSEs or A-levels um my dad's a roofer you know so I'm not from like an ambitious family of entrepreneurs who are like really hard working um and then my mum had my brother Nick at 17 she had me when she was 19 um and my dad throughout my whole life has battled through drug addiction, through heroin addiction. He's clean today, which is amazing. And, you know, we've got a great friendship and relationship. But there was times when it was difficult because I didn't understand why my dad couldn't be there.

And, you know, there was a lot of instability. I'm really focused on having a strong family unit and being present and being stable and being like being being really kind of committed to my wife and my kids and being there for them. And I suppose I apply that to my business and my work. I just care about people. I think I've realized as I've grown up, I think maybe when I was younger, I was probably more selfish and not very optimistic and a little bit pessimistic. But now I've just trained myself to be positive and be optimistic in every situation. And that's something you can really learn to do. And it feels so good when you realise you can be positive. You can live your life not moaning about things and actually taking control. Because when you do that, when you realise you can react differently and you can see things positively, life is better and you can be so much happier. So I don't know where it came from, but it's definitely something that's inside

of me. And I love spreading that message. I love trying to encourage other people to live that way, whether it's through meditation or exercise, whatever it may be, you can choose to live a healthier, happier life if you start making the right decisions, I think. You said that, Joe, that when you realize you can react differently, that is really powerful, mate, because that's been one of the biggest learnings for me in my journey into adulthood and as a parent is just that, it's when you know there's that space between the stressor and our response, there is a space. And in that space, we can choose what we do. It may be hard sometimes, but we can choose. And it's like a revelation when you sort

of get that and go, oh, I could react like that. I used to react like that, but now I'm going to choose to react differently. Definitely. I think it's amazing when you realize, like you said about when your kids are stressing you out, there's a moment where you can fight or flight or react, or you can actually have a moment to breathe. And when you start to become more patient and train that muscle, you actually can really react so well. Because my default reaction as a kid, well, you know, as a child, my mom and dad would shout and scream and shout and slam doors. I really, in my head, I kind of do slam doors and I do scream and shout. I'm doing that when Indy and Marley are screaming at me, but I've processed that and kind of learned to take a breath and then I can really react differently. So I don't need to

shout and scream, but you are a product of your childhood. You are what you've been exposed to. So although in my head I'm screaming, I've learned to really stay calm, not all the time, but as influences the people we end up becoming. And you've sort of, you mentioned already in this conversation that your dad's struggled with addiction at various parts of his life. I'm wondering, what is the biggest lesson do you feel that your dad has taught you? I think just the fact that addiction is such such a complex situation you know as you're when you're a kid you don't really know what's going on or what's caused it but you know I understand my dad now I know more about his childhood I know that you know his old man left him and went off and had another family in Canada and so all these things would have affected him

and he got into drugs quite young you know and I really I really kind of think that that experience seeing how destructive drugs were for my dad and my family really steered me clear of it. You know, when my friends were down the park smoking cigarettes and maybe getting getting some weed, I'd be going to play football or I'd be going down, you know, going going to do something active and physical and playing or whatever. So I made some decisions at an early age because I was so frightened. playing or whatever so I made some decisions at an early age because I was so frightened I personally I was actually frightened that if I did it I would love it and I'd do harder drugs and I'd be an alcoholic and a drug addict so it was quite a fearful thing I think you know because my dad was clean then he was in rehab then he was out then he'd relapse it was so up and down and it was so upsetting that I didn't want to go down that path so I think you know just my dad's

experience with drugs really shaped me as an adult and and I'm proud of that and I don't look back and I this is the thing about a lot of people with addiction in the family are quite ashamed of it they don't want to talk about their alcoholic mum or their drug addict father but you know it's okay to talk about it it's part of your story and you shouldn't be ashamed of your past like my relationship my dad's great today and I love him and he's been through a lot and And I'm actually just proud that he survived heroin addiction. It's not an easy thing. A lot of his friends ended up dead. You know, they really did.

Yeah. I mean, it's incredible. And what you mentioned a couple of times in this conversation, compassion. And I don't know if you know the work of Gabor Mate or not. Did you have him on your podcast? He's amazing. That really opened up my heart a little bit as well, because it's that thing of I was an angry teenager I didn't want to accept my dad's addiction and I was I was angry but then I now look at addiction differently like one of the things he says is the

um the antidote to addiction is connection and like what a beautiful thought you know rather than get angry and throw your dad out the house and say I don't love you I can't be around you you know go off on your own by bringing your dad closer and giving a hug and saying i love you it's all you know we're all good that's connection that's what he needs so yeah it's little things like that tiny phrases podcasts i've listened to um have opened up my heart also some i've done some really deep meditations on gratitude and and that's powerful like when you when you start to actually think positively about things you realize that life's just all these experiences and you've got to be grateful for everything, you know,

and you can learn from it. But yeah, I love Gabor Maté. Yeah. I mean, I love what you just said, Joe. And you're right that these little phrases can just change our perspective in an instant. You suddenly get something that's been sitting with you for years and you just look at it in a slightly different way. I know one phrase which has changed my life over the past year or two is something that Peter Crone said to me on one of my

podcasts. It's basically this idea that if you were that person, you'd be doing exactly the same as them. And I would sit with that Joe. I would just sit in my bed, lie in bed at night, thinking about it. If you were that person, and I think about it a lot because it's basically saying that if you were that other person with their upbringing, with their family structure, with their beliefs, with their schooling, with what they think is normal in the world, you'd have the same opinion as them. And it's how I often approach now any toxicity on social media or any sort of pushback or really charged comments, which I don't really get much of to be fair anymore. But I look at it like you with a place of compassion and go, oh,

you know, obviously that's their worldview. They see it that way. They've interpreted this in that way. So that's certainly a phrase for me that's changed things. And would you say that phrase from Gabor has changed the way you interact with your dads? Definitely. It was just a beautiful thought that, you know, we often like, because addiction is so painful. And when someone you love is taking drugs or whatever it is, gambling drinking it's painful right and you just want to shut the door in their face and you want to push them away but that's disconnection and addicts addicts especially drug addicts they're they're taking drugs to to take away some kind of pain or trauma that they may have experienced so for me to think when my dad's having these you know lows

because he suffers with depression he has ups and downs i text him i ring him or i pull him towards me i connect with him to get him through it i say come over and see indy and marley you know and that's something that i may not have done when i was a teenager i couldn't i didn't have it in me to do that as a teenager but now as an adult i see the signs and i know that if i hadn't spoke to him for a few days i know he's having a rough time and then he might be starting to think about maybe not going to na meetings and dropping out of the fellowship and stuff. So, you know, he needs his meetings and he needs his connection to his children and his family. So, yeah, it is a lovely quote.

And I really think about it a lot. And I try and spread that one to anyone that's going through that. So I think people are ashamed of having parents of addiction, but you shouldn't be. You know, you should be able to talk about it and be open with it. There's loads of people in this world with parents with some form of addiction. You're not on your own. Yeah. I think hearing you talk about it is going to be so powerful, Joe, for so many people, because I think you're right. People don't feel they can talk about it. They are ashamed. They lock it down.

And it's that stuff that you lock down inside that manifests in so many other behaviors and stress and anxiety, whereas, you know, being open and honest, and I appreciate some people, it can be challenging, but it's so important. And I really, you know, I sort of pay homage to you for actually talking about it because I think you then pave the way for people who look up to you to also talk about it in their own lives. I mean, that's your dad, what he's taught you. What do you feel that your mum has taught you? My mum is one of the most wonderful, loving, compassionate people. I think about this a lot. Where does my love and nurturing kind of nature come from? And my giving, I love giving. I love helping and being there for people. And I said my mum left school at 15. So she was on benefits,

and being enough people. And I said my mum left school at 15, so she was on benefits, you know, pretty much right up until my teenage years, you know, on social and we didn't have a lot of dough or anything. But then once we got into high school, something in her said, I want to go and do something, I want to be more, I don't want to be on benefits for my life. So she went to a young, like, women's college to get some education and then went on to do a foundation degree at Nescott College in Epsom.

And, you know, like she she became a social worker. So of all the things she could have done, she could have gone on being an accountant or she could have done, you know, bookkeeping or I don't know, anything in any industry. But she chose to be a social worker and go and help the people that she that she wants to help. People that have been through similar stuff to her, childhood trauma, getting kicked out of home, all kinds of things. And that really highlights, I think, where my love comes from, where my ability to want to help people, it's there.

It's there. And she showed me that. And one thing I'll say about my childhood is that my mum and dad always said, and my mum used to say it all the time, the time Joe I love you whatever you want to be whether you're a dustman or a doctor I'll love you just the same and that's such an important message when you're a kid because I didn't have any pressure to be anything or anyone I just was going to be who I wanted to be and that was a lovely message and I keep I say it's indie now it's like whatever you want to be darling when you're older I'm gonna be so proud of you as long as you're happy and that's really what my mum and dad have said to me from a very young age even. I was like, whatever you want to be, darling, when you're older, I'm going to be so proud of you as long as you're happy. And that's really what my mom and dad have

said to me from a very young age, even when I was like a seven, eight year old boy. Yeah. Powerful. So Joe, that's something your parents did for you that you now make sure you are doing for your kids. Is there anything that I guess happened in your childhood that you think, actually, you know what? My parents were doing their best, but actually I want to do things differently with my kids. One of the best things happened the other day, I picked Indy up from nursery and her nursery teacher said that she's just so, she said she's just so loving and kind. Like Indy said, a little boy started nursery and Indy was holding his hand and making sure he was safe. And she says, I love you. And you know, she's really affectionate and that love and that affection comes from me and Rosie so it's amazing how much they become

you know they're their own person from the start but your nurture and how you take care of them how you show them love and patience really spreads and really so by being like that of Indy I know that and also by like loving Rosie really loving and being patient and kind of, you know, really respectful of Rosie means that Indy will expect that from her husband when she's older and it will have a knock on effect to her kids. And so I am always trying my hardest to be a nice, polite and respectful and also patient parent because I was shouted at, you know, like I said, doors were slammed. We lived in council houses with like really thin doors and there'd always be holes in the doors. I never knew what it was, but it's because my dad would punch through the door

when they were arguing and stuff. So there's all these things that without a doubt, you know, I know that I'm never going to do that. I'm never going to have a door in my house with holes in it or slam a door when, because I don't want to be, I don't want us to be frightened or upset or scared by, you know, that being around us around her so yeah without a doubt all of these childhood experiences have affected and shaped my my my opinion of parenthood and what I want to be with with

Indian Marley. You're also very close to your brother and I'm wondering what lessons has your brother taught you that play out in your everyday life? So I've got two brothers I I've got an older one called Nikki, who is a year older than me. And I've got a 10-year-old brother called George, who is, we're all from the same mom and dad. And so there's a big gap. And when George came along, I was 10 and he was brand new and I loved him. I had him in my, he slept in my bed for years. I taught him how to ride. He was like my best friend. I just wanted to teach him everything. And we had such a great relationship. So I was changing nappies at 10 years old and I was feeding him and doing bath time. So I definitely think I got to be responsible and how to look after a baby through George. And then with my older brother, Nicky, he's taught me,

he's so ambitious. He works with me. He does all my content. He helps with my decisions. He's got such a great strategy, such a great vision for me and how we do things and how we help people. I talk about the MBA. It's really both of us because he was there through every single PE with Joe work in my ear doing the shout outs. I think Nicky's taught me how to be patient and how to be, um, how to, to, to think about other people's feelings. Well, we have 15 members of staff. And so, you know, through Nikki and through seeing him interact with other people, it's learned, it's taught me to be more, um, more patient and more, um, open to other people's ideas.

You know, it's not just about me, like it's a team of people. We all have ideas. And Nikki's taught me that to be more collaborative, I think I imagine that must have been a there must be a a sort of crux point when you're growing you're doing your Instagram yourself you're probably editing everything putting it all online yourself and then suddenly it probably gets that point where it's too big to manage by yourself and then there's people trying to help you and your brand, which is actually you. So it must be this kind of weird conflict of actually people trying to help you in your business, but the name is Joe Wick. So it's kind of you, but they're trying to help you be more you or get more of you out to the world. I don't know,

is it kind of a weird sort of conflict at times? Well, you might think that I've got this massive social media team, but when I talk about the 15 staff, they're like body coach support heroes. So they're like customer service. They look after clients on the plan and they're amazing. The business wouldn't be what it is without them. They really help communicate and encourage the clients to stick to the plan. In terms of the social media, it's me, my brother, Nicky, and my cousin, Luca. So it's family. Literally, it's like family. And then my best friend, Dom, does all my editing and uploads my videos. So there's only four of us. People think there's this massive team, but really, it was just me in the start. Then Nicky came and worked for me. Then my little cousin, Luca, and then my friend,

Dom. And together, I actually shoot all the content on my own. So I have a camera at home. I do the videos. I just upload it to WeTransfer and then Dom will edit it and put it online. And Nikki will help with, yeah, with strategy around like we've got an idea for a video or let's do this and visit this school and things like that. So it's a teamwork. And then Luca is kind of social media community manager because, you know, I get so many dms and there's so many questions and queries but you'd be amazed at just how much of it is me you know I send voice notes to people I I spend three or four hours a day doing voice notes to reply to people because you can't replace that you can't be me you can sound like me you can do a tweet maybe and say you know it's the

body coach team but when someone gets a voice note back from me that means so much to them and it's so important that I stay connected to my audience for my own personal mental health and also my motivation. It really motivates me when I read DMs and I read the feedback from people. Yeah. I mean, it's very touching to hear that, Joe, that you're still doing that. And I don't know how many messages you must get a day. You mentioned you spend or you try and spend three or four hours a day doing that. How has having kids affected your relationship with social media? Because I'm guessing the game you could play with social media must have been very different when it was just you or just you and Rosie compared to when

it's now with the children as well. So, you know, what does that look like now, now that you've got two young children? Well, I watched the social dilemma on Netflix and it completely ruined me. Like it threw me, it rattled me, it upset me to realise how addicted I am and my usage, you know, because I put out a lot of content and I reply to a lot of people, but I also consume a lot of nonsense and I scroll and I think, why do I do it? And so I've put in some new boundaries into my life. I don't take my phone to my bedroom anymore at night. I leave it downstairs. That has changed my life. I'm sleeping so much more and so much better for it. I also, I really try this probably like five or six days a week. Between the hours of 5pm and 7 and 7 30 like when we do dinner and bath and and bedtime

i don't have my phone on me because i do get distracted i do pick it up when i check a little thing here and there so it's kind of like i'm clawing back the hours of my addiction to my device right i'm taking some back and they all add up and it does feel nice just to have that two and a half hour slot well i'm not on my phone and don't get me wrong i'm right at 7 30 we're now in bed i'm running to my phone and i'm going through it I'm catching up on everything but it's having those blocks of time that you know it's nice to just not be on your phone and be really present but in terms of the sharing of the children I went through this phase so I had a wean I had a weaning book my weaning 15 book I set up a separate account and I shared so much in the build-up to that book you

know videos of the babies and they're eating and recipes and videos and it's so much in the build-up to that book, you know, videos of the babies and their eating and recipes and videos and it's so cute but I almost got to a point where I just felt like I shared so much and now I've kind of, I don't want to have the phone in their face at every single meal time. So I'm definitely sharing less content,

I'm making less recipes, I'm not sharing as many weaning recipes and that it kind of must, you know, my social media suffers if you like but I just don't want to be there every night with a phone in their face. I want to have them time to just relax and not think that daddy's filming them all the time. Yeah, no, for sure. Joe, about a year and a half ago, I think I heard you say somewhere that you don't think meditation is for you. You know, you sort of, it's not your thing or something like that. But then I know, and I've heard your chat

with Russell, and it was brilliant. It was such a good lesson. And he mentioned on that chat, as you didn't hear that, he thought meditation was going to help you. Was that the trigger for you to try again? And what's happened since then? So I tried the Headspace app and the Calm app a couple of years back, and it's like the seven day challenge or whatever. And I did about 10 minutes of it. And I rang up my friend and said, look, I'm mindful that I cannot be mindful. And I'm fine with it.

I want to be busy. I like being busy. I'm good. And then I did the Russell Brand Under the Skin podcast. And he says, Joe, you sound like a man. Your brain sounds like a brain that needs meditation. And he was like, look, I'm going to send you a link. Go and give it a go. It's a 20 minute guided meditation on YouTube,

completely free. I sat there and I did it. And I just felt so good. Like I've never connected with my breath. I've done yoga before, but I've always struggled with the breathing and that kind of stuff. And it opened something up in my mind. It opened up this moment of space and gratitude. And I said, I did an amazing, this is a true story. I did an amazing meditation on gratitude. And it said, think of something you're really grateful for. And all I could think about was my dad being alive. And I was thinking, why am I thinking that? Where's that thought come from? And I burst into tears because I realized how grateful I was that he didn't die he didn't inject himself with heroin one day and he's flat and die and that was really powerful and I I had this really wonderful feeling I've never had that thought I've always just thought he was a victim but I had this I kept thinking you're a survivor I'm proud of you like I'm so grateful

you've survived this I got off the got off the meditation I got out of the 20 minute meditation I rang him up and I told him that. And I told him how proud I was of him. And like, what a weird thing to happen. That's never crossed my mind. But meditation brought me that calmness and that little bit of space in my head to think, you can say this to your dad right now and you can mean it and it could be wonderful. And it was just the most lovely conversation. And he was so happy that I reached out. And he's been trying to get me to meditate for years, my old man,

because he's very much into yoga meditation. So yeah, I've got to thank Russell Brand, the comedian and the great entrepreneur, Russell Brand. And how are you meditating these days? So I've got the Headspace app because I interviewed Andy Pudicombe for my podcast series. He's the founder of Headspace.

And I've got the app and I'm really into the sleep car. because I interviewed Andy Pudicombe for my podcast series. He's the founder of Headspace. And I've got the app and I'm really into the sleep cast. So before bed, sometimes I'll listen to a sleep cast and then I'll do a guided meditation in the morning sometimes. I usually do sort of 15 minutes about three or four days a week. So I'm not seven days a week, but that's enough for me. On the days I do it, I feel good. I feel calm. And I really like the different sort of, you know, you can do one on gratitude, one on

letting go of negativity, one on dealing with stress. And I don't really have anxiety, but I do get a bit stressed over certain things. So it's amazing. And it's for some people, it's like, oh, that's never for me. I can't be bothered. I can't do it. But you've got to be patient with it. You've got to kind of train yourself to do it. You get better at each time, I think. Yeah yeah for sure before we get back to this week's episode I just wanted to let you know that I am doing my very first national UK theatre tour I am planning a really special evening where I share how you can break free from the habits that are holding you back and make meaningful changes in your life that truly last.

It is called the Thrive Tour. Be the architect of your health and happiness. So many people tell me that health feels really complicated, but it really doesn't need to be. In my live event, I'm going to simplify health and together, we're going to learn the skill of happiness, the secrets to optimal health, how to break free from the habits that are holding you back in your life. And I'm going to teach you how to make changes that actually last. Sound good? All you have to do is go to drchatterjee.com forward slash tour. I can't wait to see you there. This episode is also brought to you by the Three Question Journal, the journal that I designed

and created in partnership with Intelligent Change. Now journaling is something that I've been recommending to my patients for years. It can help improve sleep, lead to better decision making and reduce symptoms of anxiety and depression. It's help improve sleep, lead to better decision making and reduce symptoms of anxiety and depression. It's also been shown to decrease emotional stress, make it easier to turn new behaviours into long-term habits and improve our relationships. There are of course many different ways to journal and as with most things it's important that you find the method that works best for you. One method that you may want to consider is the one that I outline in the three question journal. In it, you will find a really simple and structured way of answering the three

most impactful questions I believe that we can all ask ourselves every morning and every evening. Answering these questions will take you less than five minutes, but the practice of answering them regularly will be transformative. Since the journal was published in January, I have received hundreds of messages from people telling me how much it has helped them and how much more in control of their lives they now feel. Now, if you already have a journal

or you don't actually want to buy a journal, that is completely fine. I go through in detail all of the questions within the three-question journal, completely free on episode 413 of this podcast. But if you are keen to check it out, all you have to do is go to drchatterjee.com forward slash journal,

or click on the link in your podcast app. If you are doing it, when would you do it in your day? Do you have to put it in a set time? Like for me, if I don't do it when I wake up, it rarely happens. I'm just wondering for you, how do you fit it into your day? I'm the same. Yeah, I like to do it in the morning. I'll jump up, I'll grab a glass of water and I'll go upstairs. I try and do it before the kids are awake. It's good to actually learn to do it with all the noises going on as well. I've got these good headphones. I stick on my noise cancelling headphones and I'll sit there on a cushion. Sometimes I do it laying down. I quite enjoy laying down. And yeah, I just

try and do it maybe like I'll do like my stretching and my meditation. So I bolt it onto another habit. So I need to do my daily stretching because my hips in bits. So I do a bit of stretching, a bit of meditation and that's it done. But you're right. If I don't do it and I go up to the gym and straight to exercise or I go out to work, I just don't do it. And I just can't seem to find the time because I'd rather be with the kids. I'd rather be doing something else. So I really think morning is a good time to meditate. Yeah. It's interesting what you said about learning to do it with other people around because I think when I first started and I've had this sort of, I won't say battle, but I've often done meditation over

various periods over the last few years because I know of all the benefits. I know in my logical mind, there are benefits to doing this. I should do it. But I'd fall off the wagon again and I wouldn't do it for a few weeks. And I think in the last year, my relationship to meditation has really, really changed. So being able to do it when the kids are around, because I, you know, I try and get up before them and I, you know, tiptoe down the stairs and I'm in the living room and I'm like, I want to have my time to do my meditation. I'll have a little workout before they wake up. But my daughter often will hear, or my son will hear that daddy's up and I'll creep down and say, you know, my daughter once came and said, oh, daddy, you meant to say, can I meditate with you? And I thought,

yeah, why not? Why can't she just meditate with me? So actually, I think at the time I was using calm. And so I think we just had it on as she sat with me and I did my meditation and she did hers. I thought, well, this is pretty cool, isn't it? Because then I'm kind of modeling the behavior that hopefully my kids will start doing. So it's interesting because before it would stress me out a bit, I want the time to myself because I want to be able to do my meditation and sort my head out. So that was really great. But also what's changed in me, and I'm interested to see if we ever revisit this in a few years, how it's gone for you. see if we ever revisit this in a few years, how it's gone for you. But I used to use apps.

And I think for a few months now, I now don't use anything. But it took me a while, Joe, to get here. And I'm at this point now where I actually don't want an app or a voice in my head anymore. Now that may change, but at the moment, I can meditate in silence. And I'm thinking, oh, wow, this is what they always talk about. And maybe I needed the app to get me to that next stage. And I don't know how long this will last for, but I kind of feel that it's a journey, right? Meditation. I don't think we just sort of, a lot of people want to try it a couple of times go, oh, you know, it's not my thing. It's kind of well, if you had a monkey mind your entire life, we're not going to suddenly be able to just sit and listen to a 10-minute meditation. It's like if someone said you've got to run a marathon or, I don't know, do a 24-hour

children in need challenge, right? It's, well, you're going to have to do something to prepare yourself in order to be able to do that. Do you know what I mean? I'd love to get to that point where I don't need a Headspace app or a guided meditation because sometimes I don't want the device name. I don't want headphones on me. I don't want my Apple Watch buzzing. I don't want the tech, but it is an amazing way. It's got me into meditation. I love it. I really do love my Headspace app, but I do would love to get to that point where I can just talk to myself and find my own mantra and my own breath and do it. That must be amazing because you could then be on a beach somewhere or you could be in a park or in your living room and just do it. You don't need anything. And I think that's probably what

meditation is about. It's not really about listening to other people's voices, but I do find that some of the wording they use does bring out nice thoughts and it makes me feel a bit more calm. And it's like a guided route to calmness as opposed to like trying to work yourself up and get there yourself. But no, I'll give it a go. I should try it now. Yeah, mate, see, look, it took me a few years to get to that point. So I'm not saying, and again, I don't want to sort of preach as if I have reached nirvana and I've sort of got this sorted. I'm on a journey. I'm trying to learn about myself every day. I'm trying to be a better dad, be a better husband, be a better human being, right? That's what drives me. But I know on the days I meditate, I'm a better dad. End of story. You know, I don't react as much. You know, I can, that space between stimulus and response

becomes bigger on the days I meditate and the days I don't have time or I tell myself I don't have time, that space sort of, you know, it just contracts and it's like more reactive. Is that, have you felt changes like that after meditating? Yeah. On the days I meditate, I'm more productive and I get more done, but I just feel less stressed. Like if there's loads of things going on and like you look at your diary and I've got all these appointments because sometimes things just jump in and I'm like, who put that in there? What's that? And I think, I just don't want to do too many things today. Then it can get to me. But when I've meditated, I just sort of breathe it all. It kind of like just comes a lot easier.

And I just sort of think that's going to be fine. You know, it's only another half hour or you've only got two appointments. It's not like, I just don't let the stress get to me as much. And it's, stress is such a harsh thing because it puts you in such a bad mood and can really make you feel bad and drain your energy. And so the idea is to just feel as less stress as possible. And there are ways around it. And meditation, without a doubt, there's no way on earth meditation cannot be a benefit to every single human brain. Because we're like a microprocessor, aren't we?

We're processing so much data. processing so much data. And I think meditation is that like, it's almost slowing that process down and giving you a bit more, you know, a bit more data in there, a bit more like space in your hard drive. And then you can go out towards the day and enjoy it a bit more. Jay, I like you and passionate about kids and children's health and seeing what you've done over the past few years when you've gone on the road, you've gone into schools, you've got people moving and smiling and singing and whatever else you've done. I'm really interested as to what have you learned along that way? Have you learned things from the kids? Have you adapted your approach because of what you've seen in the schools? I really do love working with children. When I go into a school and I visit

a school in any area, it could be a really affluent area, it could be a really deprived area, the same response is they're so engaged, they're so excited to move their bodies and they're almost the habits of form and it's they're a bit more resistant whereas the younger children they're much more up for it you know they really want to train they really want to have fun and I've learned that children are resilient you know they're really you know they they really kind of use exercise I think as a great way of letting out that stress and venting and if they've got rough you know tough upbringings at home and rough backgrounds or wherever they may live it is a great way of letting them feel safe and feel kind of connected through health and fitness. I think it's an amazing way of bringing kids out of their shell, if you like, giving them confidence. There's so many benefits to it, but it really is one. I've had successive adults and cookbooks, but for me now, I just love working with school kids.

I love knowing that young kids are like going into their living room and choosing a YouTube workout and doing it on their own. That's, for me, is the ultimate win because it's like they're doing it off their own back. And I get a lot of messages from parents that say that. My kid went upstairs with my laptop and I could hear banging. I thought they were rowing and they were doing one of your hip workers. They were doing mountain climbers or running on the spot. And that's such a lovely message because it's really what I'm trying to achieve. It's like independent desire to want to exercise for

their own mental health. Yeah, no, wonderful. Joe, if someone's listening to this right now, this conversation, or they're watching it on YouTube and they're thinking, Joe, I get it. I've heard what you've got to say. I get it that it's going to help me feel better. It's going to have benefits for my mental health. But, you know, Joe, exercise is not for me. I was teased as a kid, you know, I don't like going to gyms because I'm scared of what people are going to say. I'm not sure if I'm doing them the right way. I just don't think it's for me. What would you say to them? Well'd say firstly you know you're not alone there's lots of people there's millions of people that really find exercise difficult

um it's in my DNA I love it from a kid I've always loved it but some kids love music and they became amazing guitarists and didn't get you know in didn't get engaged in pee or didn't have a great experience with um with bullying or with school teach or whatever it may be. So don't ever feel like it's too late. You can find something that you love and it doesn't have to be a body coach, HIIT workout, doing burpees, raising your heart rate and feeling really uncomfortable. You may be someone who loves going for five mile walks with your dog. That is exercise and that is your mental health and that is you doing what you love. So don't feel a pressure to um conform to any type of fitness you don't need a peloton bike you don't need a um you know

expensive personal trainer there's always something and i think really use tech you know turn to youtube and see how many amazing like trainers there are in terms of meditation yoga you know pilates hit um body weight stuff. There's so many great trainers. I almost feel like there's something for everyone on YouTube and it's free. So maybe give that a go. Spend a week. Say, right, today I'm going to do a 20-minute barre class. Tomorrow I'm going to do a pilates workout or yoga workout. And by the end of that week, you're going to go, I don't like any of Joe's workouts, but I love this yoga teacher from LA. I'm going to do that twice a week. There's something there. It's just about trying it out and don't feel like it has to be throwing heavy weights around

and doing star jumps and mountain climbers because it may not be for you, but you can still have a strong body. You can still have a supp supple mobile body and still get the mental health benefits from that type of exercise. Yeah, I love it. Great advice for people. Joe, what's next for you? Because I heard you say in an interview that after PE with Joe, which if I've not said congratulations yet in this conversation, I'm going to say it now because what you achieved and what you created during lockdown to be the PE teacher to the UK, but also, frankly, a lot of the world, was incredible. I know you've been in the Guinness Book of Records because of that in terms of how

many people were on your live stream. But I've heard you say that actually you don't think you'll ever do anything that's that impactful as what you did then. Yet, I'm chatting to you four or five days after you stayed up for 24 hours, four children in need, raising over two million quid. And I'm thinking, well, I'm not saying that surpassed what you did. I don't know which one is more impactful. I think they're both amazingly impactful. But it just seems as though you go from strength to strength and the impact you're having just increases all the time. So I guess, I don't know what's going on in your head, but it kind of strikes me as though when you think you've reached your max,

there's something on the other side of that. So how do you deal with that? And then also, what do you think is next? And what drives you to keep going? I do remember saying that in an interview, I was like, you know, lockdown and being there for 80 million views, you know, it was so many families and kids. Being there during that time was like, such an important moment. I don't know if there's ever going to be any moment in time where i'm needed and and and kind of you know utilized so much as a human being like in that moment in time but then i've done the 24-hour challenge and when i think about the money we raised like that will impact lives that that 2.5 million pounds will help children's lives so i actually i've got this new kind of thing in my

head that maybe I could do more fundraisers because I never imagined we were going to raise £2.5 million. But imagine if I did another event next year and we raised £5 million. Imagine what that would do. So maybe that mindset of the impact was so big. Maybe there's something ahead of me in the future that's so big and I could spend years raising millions of pounds for charities that are close to my heart. So who knows? I've got no crazy 24-hour challenges lined up, but I could convince myself again, if BBC Children Need Asked me to come back next year, I just may have to do something a bit more intense because people won't want to donate again to the same thing. It might have to be more

extreme and even more bold and daring. Oh, love it. Absolutely love it. Joe, look, you are one of the most inspiring people out there. What you have achieved is incredible. You go from strength to strength, PE workouts during lockdown, you know, raising two and a half million quids for children in need, you know, it's just, you know, the MBE you've just been awarded. It really is incredible to watch. And I love more than anything that you were the body coach when you were 11 years old, getting people ready in PE, getting them motivated. Come on, let's get out of there. Let's get moving. For me, that's the funnest part of your entire story to hear that you were doing what you've always meant to do,

what you're here to do. I always finish off the podcast, Joe, with some tips for people because I want to inspire people through these conversations, but I want people to take action. I don't just want them to feel inspired and go, oh, that was great. I love all that. And then go back to their everyday lives. I want them to take that inspiration and turn it into something that they can bring into their life. That's why it's called feel better, live more. When you feel better in yourself, you get more out of life. And Joe, I want to, in all your years of training people in person, online, everything that you've done, what are some of your top tips for people that they can think about at the end of our conversation today? Lovely. Thank you so much for that lovely outro almost. I've really enjoyed our chat as well.

It's been so nice. We haven't met in person, but I really hope we get to meet and have lunch one day. So what have I learned from people? I think more than ever, I've learned the importance of mental health, the importance of taking care of yourself. You live in your own mind. No one else around is going to take care of your mental health and your mindset. It really is about you doing things every day to help you feel positive, feel optimistic, especially now during the lockdown, the COVID, what's gone on, what we've been experiencing. You have to take care of yourself. Primarily, that is going to come through four things, which is, you know, sleep. So focus on getting a good night's sleep, focus on, you know, leaving your phone outside your bedroom, maybe doing some meditation if you can. And, you know, really just switching off a little bit earlier. That's a really important one. it doesn't matter if you can't do really high intensity if you've got bad knees or you're you've got injuries of some sort you know find something that you can do and do it consistently

even if it's 10 minutes a day it's better than nothing number three is nutrition you know food can you like stop buying takeaway food and ready meals and just cook three meals a day at home or you know even one or two meals a day at home that's going to help you have energy it's going to help you feel confident. It's going to help you feel confident and get leaner and all the other things that come with it. And then the final thing I think for a happy life is to have goals, shared goals of your partners or your kids, career goals and personal goals. If you don't have anything in the diary, anything in the calendar ahead of you, what we work is like you're just plodding along through life in cruise control.

I think it's nice to set yourself a crazy goal, like I'm going to run a marathon or I'm going to climb Kilimanjaro, you know, something, whatever it may be, or I'm going to go traveling for a month and visit Costa Rica and go and spend time with the animals that I love. Like all these things that you dream about,

it's going to give you a life like color and ambition and motivation. And then if you live by those four principles, I do think you can, like you said, live happier, feel better, live more, is a lovely, lovely phrase. And so that's my top tips. I mean, are they tips? I don't know if that's really tips, but that's my principles of life, I suppose. Yeah. No, I love them. I think people are going to love them. Joe, you're a busy guy. I appreciate you giving me nice minutes of your time today. Good luck with everything you're doing. I also hope we get to meet in person and do lunch together one day.

I'm sure that day won't be very long coming. So yeah, have a good one, Jay. I'd love that. Well, thank you for your time and keep doing your thinking, spreading the positive message and lots of love to you and all your listeners. I hope you enjoyed that conversation. As always, have a little think about one thing that you can take away and apply into your own life immediately. Joe mentioned the importance of sleep. And if you struggle with this and want some help, just head over to my website, drchatterjee.com, and you can access a free sleep masterclass video series that I have created. Simply pop in your email

and I'll send the videos over to you straight away. And why not take a little pause right now and share this conversation with someone in your own network who you think would enjoy listening. You can send them a link to this episode with a personal note. And do remember this serves as an act of kindness, which has benefits not just

for the other person, but for you as well. And don't forget that my brand new book, Feel Great, Lose Weight, is available to order right now. It is striking a chord with so many of you. I'm delighted how many of you are connecting with the content in the book. Yes, it is written around the topic of losing excess weight for health. But the truth is that most of the ideas within the book are universal and will help you form new habits, understand your own behaviors better, and ultimately help you live a happier and healthier life. It's available as a paperback, ebook, or as an audio book, which I'm narr narrating and here's a short clip to give you a little taste. There are so many other parts of a person's life that can contribute enormously to

their weight. For example emotional problems such as stress, loneliness and depression. Time and time again I've seen people who successfully change their diets, but are able to lose weight only after they've tackled their stress levels and any emotional factors that were also playing a huge role. If we are to lose weight, and keep it off for good, we need to explore why we're eating too much, and why we continue to eat foods that we know are sabotaging our efforts, despite our best intentions. This means going on a journey of self-discovery. I appreciate that this may feel a little bit intimidating, but all it really means is that in order to truly change our lives and lose weight, we'll have to get to know ourselves a little better. lose weight, we'll have to get to know ourselves a little better. Hope you enjoyed that little clip from the audiobook. And finally, if you haven't heard me talk about it yet, new for 2021 is my Friday email that's called Friday Five. It contains five

short doses of positivity, articles or books that I'm reading, quotes I'm reflecting on, exciting research I've come across, and so much more. I only started sending these out two weeks ago. Feedback has been wonderful so far. On the Friday Five, I share things that I don't share on social media. My goal is for it to be a small yet powerful dose of feel good to get you ready for each weekend. If you're interested, you can sign up for it at drchatterjee.com forward slash Friday five. A big thank you to my wife, Vedanta Chatterjee, for producing this week's podcast, and to Richard Hughes for audio engineering. Have a wonderful week. Make sure you hit press subscribe and I'll be back this Friday with my shorter bite-sized conversation and next Wednesday with the usual long-form one. Remember,

you are the architects of your own health, making lifestyle changes always worth it. Because when you feel better, you live more.