Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - #157 Priyanka Chopra Jonas on Self-Worth, Success and Walking Your Own Path

Episode Date: February 17, 2021

My guest today is Priyanka Chopra Jonas – arguably one of the most famous people on the planet. She’s a household name in India, a country fast approaching a population of 1.5 billion and not only has she climbed to the submits of the Indian film industry, she is now doing the same in Hollywood. She became Miss World, all the way back in 2000 and since then has developed a bit of a reputation for continually breaking through glass ceilings. She has become the first South Asian lead on a major US TV network show and she’s also a UNICEF Goodwill Ambassador. Her resume is long and varied – not only is she an actor, she is also a singer, an entrepreneur, a producer, an activist and now, she is also an author. During the downtime afforded to her because of the global pandemic and travel restrictions, she decided to write her very first book, Unfinished: A Memoir. I spoke to her right in the middle of her launching this book in four different time zones and despite the exhausting schedule, she remained resolutely upbeat.  Priyanka and I really connected during this conversation and we went deep into many different areas. We talk about where her drive and positivity comes from, how she defines success and the powerful effect her childhood has had on the choices she makes and the way she interacts with the world.   From a young age, Priyanka was taught to walk her own path and that her opinions were valid and important – something she encourages all parents to foster in their own children. She was also taught that finding the good in any situation takes away the power of the bad. This came into question when, like myself, Priyanka suffered the loss of her father in 2013. We talk through how that grief manifested in her and how she managed to emerge from that deep pain. She found that making small changes – tiny shifts to her usual pattern or environment – were key to rediscovering her true self. I think this is a really powerful perspective that we can all apply into our own lives. We talk about our shared Indian heritage and our own experiences growing up, especially in relation to the clash that we both felt between Eastern and Western cultures. For Priyanka, it was only when she started working in the entertainment industry and realised the lack of representation that she understood why she’d always felt ‘different’. It became her aim to push boundaries and ‘make the table larger’ for the next generation. Success, says Priyanka, is not about career or fame or money. It’s about waking up excited for the day ahead and going to bed with contentment in your heart. I think this a powerful conversation and the life lessons that Priyanka shares are relevant to us all.  Show notes available at https://drchatterjee.com/157 Follow me on instagram.com/drchatterjee/ Follow me on facebook.com/DrChatterjee/ Follow me on twitter.com/drchatterjeeuk DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

The greatest weapon I could ever have was a sense of self, self-worth, self-confidence, and knowing that even if I failed, it doesn't mean the failure of me, it just means the failure of a thing I tried. I could try something else. I think success is really being able to wake up in the morning and, you know, saying that, am I excited about the day that I'm going to lead? When you put your head to rest on your pillow at night to say that I feel calm and I feel like when you have contentment in your heart, that is the best testament of success. Hi, my name is Rangan Chastji. Welcome to Feel Better, Live More. to feel better, live more. My guest today is Priyanka Chopra Jonas, arguably one of the most famous people on the planet. She's a household name in India, a country fast approaching a

population of one and a half billion. And not only has she climbed to the summits of the Indian film industry, she's now doing the same in Hollywood. She became Miss World all the way back in the year 2000, and since then has developed a bit of a reputation for continually breaking through glass ceilings. She has become the first South Asian lead on a major US TV network show, and she's also a UNICEF Goodwill Ambassador. Now, her resume is long and varied. Yes, she's an actor, but she's also a singer, an entrepreneur, a producer, an activist, and now she's also an author. During the downtime afforded to her over the past 12 months because of the global travel restrictions, she decided to write her very first book, which is entitled Unfinished. I spoke to her right in the middle of her launching this book in four

different time zones. And despite the exhausting schedule, she remained resolutely upbeat. Now, if you've been listening to my show for a while, you'll know that I encourage you to move outside your comfort zone and regularly try new things. And to be honest, in this episode of my podcast, I feel it's something I'm doing for myself. It's not the norm for me to talk to world-famous actors. But just as when I did so last year with the Oscar winner, Matthew McConaughey, which I think was one of my best conversations in 2020, I really enjoyed the challenge. At the end of the day, all of my guests are just fellow human beings trying their best to make their way through life just like everybody else. Now,

I feel that Priyanka and I really connected during this conversation and we went deep into all kinds of different areas. We talk about where her drive and positivity comes from, how she defines success, and the powerful effects her childhood has had on the choices she makes and the way she interacts with the wider world. You see, from a young age, Priyanka was taught to walk her own path and that her opinions were valid and important. Something she encourages all parents to foster in their own children. And she was also taught that finding the good in any situation takes away the power of the bad. Now, this came into question for her in 2013 when her father died.

Now this came into question for her in 2013 when her father died. We talk about how that grief manifested in her and how she managed to emerge from that deep pain. She says that after some time, she started to miss the person she used to be. And she found that making small changes, tiny shifts to her usual pattern or environment were the key to rediscovering her true self. I think that is a really powerful perspective that we can all apply in our own lives from time to time. We also talk about our shared Indian heritage and our own experiences growing up especially in relation to the clash that we both felt between eastern and western cultures. For Priyanka, it was only when she started working in the entertainment industry and realised the lack of representation that she understood why she'd always felt different. It became her aim to push boundaries

and make the table larger for the next generation. Success, says Priyanka, is not about career or fame or money it's about waking up excited for the day ahead and going to bed with contentment in your heart I think this is a powerful conversation and I think you are going to really enjoy listening and now my conversation with Priyanka Chopra Jonas. I'm tired, but you know, the way I see it is I would have been on different flights traveling all over the world, doing a book tour like that, I just feel happy to be able to reach so many people and still be able to have this conversation with you at a time when, you know, a lot of people are at home and I'm being able to work. So, you know what, I'm good. As I've been researching you, that seems to be, I think, a theme that I've seen everywhere, which is you always tend to look at the bright side. You're always, you you always tend to look at the bright side you're always you're always

looking to you know see the best in every situation and move on and go yeah well I yes I'm tired but I've got the opportunity to talk about my work when so many people aren't is that something you've always had and where do you think that comes from? Wow I don't know but I do think it comes from? Wow, I don't know. But I do think it comes from a desire to keep moving and not be stagnant. And I have in my life, many times, you know, been stuck as well emotionally. And I felt that the one thing that usually gets me out of being stuck is by getting out of my own way, you know, and, and looking at a positive. My mom told me since I was very young that no matter how badly off you are, someone else is worse off than you. So if you just see the good in a situation, then, you know, you, it takes away the power from the bad because it is what it is. And you're, it's okay to feel that way too. I mean, every, all of us can have frustrating situations. Um, today was a frustrating

morning for me, but it's all right. You know, we do what we can and we just have to make sure that the only way to feel motivated and that's when you do your best job, right? Is when you're feeling motivated or inspired is to find something to be inspired about. Yeah. Your Instagram bio says there is a first time for everything. And there's so many components of that, that really make me sit and reflect. I look at your career and I look at you as someone who is constantly pushing boundaries, breaking glass ceilings, breaking boundaries and doing new things. So, you know, what is going on there? Why is that the only thing you have at the top of your Instagram bio? Because it seems to underpin everything that you do.

Well, first of all, because it is a time of firsts for me right now, specifically. First time I've written a book, the first time I founded a beauty brand. I just launched my hair care line, it's called Anomaly and it's at Target. And, you know, it's just eight products and it's really small and that's just how I wanted to do it. So, I'm feeling like it's a time of firsts anyway. And at the same time, you know, from a very young age, I have always sort of felt the need to walk my own path a little bit. And that was encouraged for me from my family when I was a kid. Like I was always asked my opinion.

Even when the room disagreed with me, my dad used to always say, you know, there's no point if you don't have an opinion, you have to have an opinion. And because of which I came to realize that when you have an opinion and you can't do anything about it, when there are glass ceilings for you, then, you know, it's a kind of a constant struggle. And I looked to pave my own way. I looked for, you know, creating opportunities where there weren't any. I looked for a gap. And that's always been important to me, I think, because I didn't want to be contained. And I feel like I have so much I want to contribute to. to be contained. And I feel like I have so much I want to contribute to. Yeah. I do want to talk about your childhood because the way you've been brought up,

your parents' marriage, which you've written about, seems to be very significant. But before we go there, you obviously are one of the most famous people on the planet probably. You have such a well-known personality, but people will know you as an actor, as a producer, as a musician, whatever they've seen you in or heard you in, they'll have an impression of who you are. But for those people who are coming across you for the first time, how would you describe yourself? Who is Priyanka Chopra Jonas? I mean, honestly, just a girl trying to do the best at her job. I mean, if I had to explain who I am, that's basically my motivation is, you know, I have a job and I'm trying to excel at it. And at the same time, I'm trying to be a good person and, you know, enjoy the life that I have built um but I think

I hope that people who don't know me uh and if they come across this book what they see is you know just a girl who's made the best of her circumstances in times that were troubling in times that were you know where I failed I've had the courage to, in times that were, you know, where I failed, I've had the courage to sort of stand up again and, you know, try again. And that's really all I am. Some of all my choices and just always tried to make the right ones. Yeah. You mentioned your book. It is such a wonderful read, honestly. Oh, really? Thank you, Rangan. it is such a wonderful read honestly I really thank you yeah I've I've enjoyed it I've really enjoyed it actually it's wonderful because you're so open you share so much it's easy then for

people like me as a reader to see various aspects of my own personalities in you. And what's interesting to me is, what is that like for you? Because you are this very well-known public personality, and I'm guessing that by being that, on some level, you have to be guarded about what you are prepared to reveal to the world and what you are not. But certainly in this book, it seems if there were any boundaries or barriers that you would erect to maintain your privacy, some of those, I'm guessing, have been knocked down a little bit and you're letting people in a bit more. So why did you decide to do that? a bit more. So why did you decide to do that? Well, first of all, now having been, you know,

a public person for almost 20 years of my life, I've kind of gotten away with just exposing very little bit of myself and people still think that they know me, you know, because books have been written about me, articles have been written about me, and people always talk from the perspective of knowing why I've done the things I've done. And as amusing as it is to be a spectator of my own life, I, on the other side of 35 right now, reached a point where I'm secure in myself, I'm secure in my job, I'm secure in myself. I'm secure in my job. I'm secure in my life. I feel a sense of contentment and also having had time during the pandemic to really reflect and be honest to who I am. And I never had the time to introspect my whole life.

You know, for at least the last 20 years, I've just been running, you know, from pillar to post. My job is not consistent. It is not nine to five. For people who think it's glamorous and it's easy, let me tell you, you do not know where your next check is coming from. You do not know where you're going to be the next three months. You can't plan, you know, holidays. You just have to kind of figure it out. And that's my job. And that's the most consistent part about it is the inconsistency.

So I just reached this point in my life where I took a breath. I had six months at home and I decided to introspect in my own life and be as honest as I could. And there were things that I've taken out of this book too, by the way, which didn't make it, which were too personal. But when I was writing it, I knew the only way to make it an interesting book, which if I'm writing a book, I want to make it interesting. I didn't want to bore myself, but was to scratch beneath the surface. And it was very healing for me. And it was very cathartic for me. And I came out on the other side, you know, sort of patting my

younger self on the back and saying, you know, you went through a lot, but it's okay. You came out alive, you know, you're standing on your feet and you did all right. Yeah. I mean, you really get that from the book. You know, as a doctor, when I see patients, I see a lot of people who have never taken a pause on their life and never given themselves perspective. They're sort of inside their own head, living their life. And over the last few years, I've become a huge fan of journaling both for myself but also with many of my patients because it gives us perspective it allows us to commentate on our life reflect on what's going on and I've seen so many improvements in people

with their mental health anxiety the way they see the world I I would highly recommend it. I, even if you're not writing a memoir that, you know, you want to publish or whatever, just documenting or writing about your life, like a journal. I mean, that's why so many people used to do it. And now we've just forgotten it because, you know, we're on Instagram or TikTok instead of like taking a second to invest in ourselves. But I, after writing this book, and it's my first attempt at writing, I definitely recommend reflecting on your life. There are things that you've forgotten, you know, dusted under the carpet that come out, and you don't even realize how much you needed to sort of re-look at them. You actually helped me reflect on my life at quite a few points in the book, Branka. You mentioned your childhood and the holidays you would go on with your parents. You'd get

into a car, you'd be traveling, I think, to a hill station and you'd be stopping and eating at the side and drinking. And it reminded me that, oh, wow, that's so fascinating. Because I used to, you're obviously doing that in India where you grew up. Myself, you know, my parents were born and brought up in India. They came here in the 1960s and 1970s. I'm born and brought up here. You know, every other summer we'd spend six weeks in Kolkata in India with my family and my cousins, which is one of the fondest times of my life for sure. But the other summer, we'd go around Europe and in a car and we ram it full of things and we'd stop at the side. So that really made me reflect on that. Your dad wore Old Spice, as did my dad. I don't think I've ever thought about that for about 20 years.

So that was a nice moment. I think it was that generation of Indian men. I think it just was, you know, Old Spice was the jam. It made, it was like, cool. Yeah, it was. So, so it's, it's amazing by you reflecting on your life. And I think a lot of the readers will get that. It will help them think about, you know, well, you know what it is, Branka? You are, very few of us take the time to go through and document our entire life, what happens. And doing it, as you say, on this side of 35, you now can look back and, I mean, does it help you understand some of the choices you've made, how your childhood has influenced your decisions as an adult. You know, what were the key learnings from you from going through that process? Oh, absolutely. You know, the one

big one that I realized while writing the book was how crucial my upbringing was to the woman I am today. The fact that I was raised by parents that empowered me to have thought, to have an opinion from when I was a kid who used to allow me to hang out with them and their friends and be part of conversations, who never shamed me for wanting to move to America at 12 years old, who never shamed me for saying that, you know, I want my

name on the nameplate in the house as well. Because I live here too, you know, when I was five or six years old. And I realized when I was writing the book, I was like, the fact that I had the confidence at 17 to treat that pageant, the Miss India pageant, like just a competition, not even think about the gravity of what it meant. For me, it was like if I was thrown into a dance competition, I would win. If I was thrown into an elocution competition, I would win. I was just a competitive girl in school. competition, I would win. Like I was just a competitive girl in school, but it was because they gave me the, my parents gave me the greatest weapon I could ever have was a sense of self,

self-worth, self-confidence, and knowing that even if I failed, it doesn't mean the failure of me. It just means the failure of a thing I tried. I could try something else. And that comes from a sense of self-confidence in yourself. And that was a big learning. When I finished the manuscript for the first time, I was like, I don't think I would have been able to achieve half of these things if I didn't have the upbringing I had. And I would implore every parent to give your children the gift of individuality, you know, the gift to have their own dreams and not yours.

Yeah. That was one of my favorite parts of the book when you told that story that you, your parents, I think, were in the army and you'd move regularly and there'd always be a nameplate on the door wherever you guys went for your mum and your dad. And, you know, if I want to, why don't you tell that story rather than me trying to tell you what I read? It was, I think it really epitomises everything you've just said. Just taking a quick break to give a shout out to AG1, one of the sponsors of today's show. Now, if you're looking for something at this time of year to kickstart your health,

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But both my parents were doctors in the Indian army so it said my dad's name and his designation and then my mom's name and her designation um and I remember when he was putting it up I was like okay well why isn't my name up there don't I live in this house as well five years old and my dad just looked at me and he says thank you for pointing out that mistake you're right you do live in this house we will change the nameplate he didn't laugh at me did not shame me but told me I was right and changed the nameplate and it said Miss Priyanka Mimi Chopra, upper KG for kindergarten. I mean, a fun story, right? But actually very powerful. And, you know, if I reflect on my own parenting, I think I'll give my wife a huge amount of credit here because I think she's always been one to treat the kids from a young age with respect, like adults, like if

they've got someone to say, let's listen, let's validate it. And I think a lot of families, I think parents are always trying to do the best they can, but I think sometimes they think, oh, it's just kids, you know, what do they know? Oh, that's a bit funny. But no, actually that can then ingrain a pattern which plays out in your entire life because you think actually... Yeah. You second guess yourself. Yeah. As an adult, you'll start second guessing yourself.

I don't second guess myself mostly. I mean, of course, I have times of insecurity. But if I'm thrown into something, I have the confidence to be able to figure it out, even if I'm second guessing myself. And I think that came from definitely that upbringing of validating my feelings and my opinions. 2020 has shown everyone around the world that, or re-emphasized to everyone, that the only constant in life is change. And when I've seen interviews with you before, when I've been reading your book, it's clear that you had to deal with change regularly growing up. Things rarely stay the same for long periods of time. Is that part of the secret, do you think,

to your success? That you know how to deal with adversity, you know how to deal with change, nothing seems to phase you no matter what you do or where you go? Maybe. Maybe it has to do with adaptability and the fact that I can adapt is because I moved around so much physically. But I think it's more a state of mind. I think I learned that very young. My dad made traveling into a sense of adventure for me.

Because we used to move every two years, I had a fit one time with my dad. I was like, I don't want to leave my best friend. I don't want to go away. And he said to me that when you go to a new place, you have a blank slate. No one knows your failures of where you came from. So if you were in a class that you're not doing well, or if a teacher doesn't like you, or you can change whoever you want to be when you go to a new place. and it was such a sense

of power for a child and he said to me he was like be like water water can be as powerful as a waterfall and can make holes in rocks over time and it can be as still as a teacup and provide comfort be like water be able to to use it for whatever strength it has, but also be able to adapt. And that sense of adventure, I definitely think has made me a lot less fearful and a lot more curious than I think a lot of people for sure. Is there a potential downside there and what I mean by that is if we're constantly moving on and are able to forget what's happened and then move on to the next thing and move on to the next thing does that sometimes lead to a situation or do you think it

could do where actually you don't spend I don't you, one doesn't spend time in one place to self-reflect and observe because the default is, actually, you know what, I just want to move on and make myself busy and jump into the next thing. Probably. I did that many, many times for a really long time. And that worked for me till it didn't. And I hit a wall too. that worked for me till it didn't. And I hit a wall too. And that wall lasted a good two years. And it was probably because that was what my attitude was.

You know, when I was sad, I would just pick up and move on. If I was upset, I would just pick up and move on and not really deal with my emotions. And I was, until I was forced to deal with them, just because I was in a really dark place, and I was stuck, and I felt emotionally vacant because I suddenly couldn't deal with all the things that were probably under this rug which was bustling. I just kept going into the next thing,

and then I had to sit down and feel, I had to feel all the feelings, I had to deal with all my emotions and then I came out on the other side way stronger and way more with the ability to compartmentalize and balance both. Now I don't see myself as someone who runs away from issues, but I don't see myself as someone who confronts them either. I'm okay with them. I have acceptance of everything that goes on. You can have frustrations, you can be sad,

but I think acceptance is really important and accepting whatever you're feeling and allowing yourself to feel it. Yeah. We need time to feel, don't we? We need space. We need sometimes to stop. And, you know, as I think about your story and I think about 2013, for me, it was a pivotal moment in my life. My father, who I had cared for with my mom and brother for 15 years while dad was sick, he died in March, 2013. My way of dealing with that was complete emotional turmoil. I gave myself a lot of solitude. I didn't throw myself into my work. I withdrew from my work and went inwards at that point,

which has led to multiple learnings and then literally changed the trajectory and the path that I've taken with my career. I know your father also died in 2013, but you took a different approach, which of course it's a unique experience. Is that something, I know how significant your dad was to you. Is it something that you think it took a few years to actually take the time to go and process what happened? Do you feel you have processed it and has writing the book helped you? In some ways, has writing the book been a form of therapy, I guess, for you? I think so I think it was very healing for me to actually write write about a lot of things in the book that I've not never addressed never spoken about forget publicly but even to myself

um and yes I was very very very close to my dad he was my my largest, biggest cheerleader. And I don't think I came to terms with it at all when he passed. And I'm so sorry to hear about your dad. You know, losing a parent is insane. It's as natural as it is supposed to be. It's just strange when you see people who are your superheroes, you know, um, be brought down like that. It's just, it's really hard. And it really, for me, I did not know how to deal with it. I, I went back to work four days after my dad passed, um, didn't stop working till the pandemic last year. But I was forced to actually, when I hit that wall, it had a lot to do with the grief that I had not processed. And I just moved countries and I just, you know, got out of a relationship and I had no friends and I just

moved to America. I was on a show. I was working 15 hour days for six days a week. It was just all a lot. And at that time I withdrew too, like you said you did. I withdrew from friends. I withdrew from family. I withdrew from work. I was a zombie, you know. Thankfully, after having put in so many years into my job,

you know, it didn't affect my work as much as it could have because I had experience enough, you know, muscle memory enough to be able to go in and do it. But I was not in a good place and it lasted a while. And I think that I didn't seek help in terms of therapy whereas maybe I should have I didn't seek help in terms of us speaking to friends or family um I dealt with it on my own so I think yeah the book kind of was my therapy um of dealing with it because I never really spoke about it to anyone that that time in your life in 2017, which you detail in Unfinished,

there was a bit in that section which, you know, I stopped and I underlined it because you said, I miss the person I used to be. And I thought that was really quite profound in terms of how we can think about ourselves. What happened then? How did you get outside your own head? What happened to help you realise, hey, God, this is not me. This isn't what I used to do. What's happened to me? Because it's very powerful, that section, when you write about that time in your life. very powerful that section when you write about that time in your life. Well, thank you. Um, it was multiple things. Um, it was feeling, um, very isolated,

choosing isolation, which is not me. I'm a very people's person. I love human beings. Humans are my favorite. Um, is not me. I'm a very people's person. I love human beings. Humans are my favorite. And I suddenly didn't want that. I suddenly was in a sort of routine of doing the same thing. I wasn't taking care of myself at all. I would stay in bed whenever I didn't have work. um i was unhealthy i felt unhealthy i um was not being able to be in forget inspired but even be um i have very high standards of myself or when i work i expect extremely good results when i'm working as as a person i'm flawed and I'm okay with all of that, you know, but when it comes to my job, I expect a lot for myself and I wasn't hitting that according to me. And I think I just, I realized that I would lose the career I'd worked so hard on, I'd worked so hard for, if I didn't take stock of myself.

And it was a choice. It was a choice of, am I going to be seduced by my sorrow? Am I going to allow that blanket of, you know, wallowing in self-pity to make me feel like I want to stay there and lose everything that I've built or am I going to take stock of my life and not let that go because I've worked so hard for it and I think that was my impetus is that if I wanted to have the job and keep growing with the kind of excellence and trajectory that I've had so far, then I'm going to have to do it. I can't just arrive at work and not be the best that I'm expected to be. That's what I'm hired for. That's my job and I wasn't

being able to do it. And that like really kicked my ass. In the book, you explain how at that time, it wasn't like a complete overhaul where you decided one day, right, I'm going to change. And then you wake up the next morning. It sounds to me as though there was a couple of small things you mentioned on the way back from shooting. Let's say instead of going straight home, you'd meet up with the friends, or you'd change the location of where you would be. And I think that's very powerful for all of us, no matter what we're trying to change in life. We don't realize how powerful the environment is. If we get used to certain behaviors in a certain room, even just going to the next room at the same time can be very powerful. So I wonder if you could explain what were those things that actually... Look, people are struggling at the moment. We know people's

mental health is declining. Lots of people are struggling with the state of the world. And some people feel it has to be this complete overhaul. But what I got from your story is that it was small changes that really started to make the big difference. It always is the small changes. If you want to get somewhere in life, it's really not the overhaul at all. It doesn't have to be, you know, you have to change your entire life and tomorrow it's going to be different. It's always just keep moving, always just take a step. And that's what I kind of did when I was stuck and it lasted a good two years, you know, I started doing little things, which was like changing my routine, changing your patterns. Like even right now, specifically, we're all at home, right? We all have a pattern that we're going to do our Zoom

calls for this time to this time. And then we have dinner and then we watch a movie or then, you know, we have that routine of what we're going to do. And when that routine starts becoming toxic and that's what's holding you back, that's what I started doing. I changed my routine instead of being, you know, coming back home and sitting on that couch and watching TV and, you know, going to bed.

I said, all right, I'm just going to meet a friend for a drink or take my dog out for a walk or not sit on that couch and maybe sit on the dining table and do something else. You know, just sort of being spontaneous allows you to remember the person that you may have been that kind of had faith in wanting to do different things or be confident. And, you know, it just, it helped me sort of break the clutches of what I was feeling just by being, you know, surprising my own self by doing things that I may probably have not done. I mean, during that time, you paint a very powerful story, which I think many people will be surprised to read that, you know, you sit by yourself, you'd stay up in bed late, snacking, watching TV.

The sort of habits that many of us do when we're feeling low, we don't want to engage in the world. But I think it's very powerful for someone as well known and as successful as you to share that even you suffer like any human being and have those tendencies, I think is a very, very powerful message. When we show vulnerability ourselves, we actually inspire that vulnerability in the people around us or the people who look up to us. But you also mentioned at that time that you ended up putting on a bit of weight and people were quite mean to you, or some people were online. It always fascinates me this is how do people really feel about that? Because sometimes we say, oh, it doesn't bother me what other people think, when actually it really does.

And I'm interested for you, when people are saying things like that, when you're feeling low anyway, what does that do to you? I mean, of course it's terrible. Everyone hates it. I mean, but my job is like, basically my job is getting critiqued, right? Like I create a movie, you watch it and two minutes later, you're just like, ah, it was terrible or, ah, it was great or whatever. Like my job is literally everything I put out there is for critiquing. But me as a person is not my job. I am not an elected official. Like I am, I am not the job. So to, um, it is always painful, you know, when you read online people who are sitting behind the anonymity of their computer who just want to sort of steer the pot and don't have any research or context to anything that they're saying. And, you know, but over the last 20 years, I've kind of developed a thick hide where I've been able to.

So this is the way I do it, okay? I told myself, and again, this is not an old thought. This is not like I didn't always know this. I've come around to this discovery recently in the last five, six years. I think maybe maturity, maybe growing up. I don't know what it is, but what I realized is that if we give so much credence to online negativity, those are people that are giving you their opinions because they have the ability to do it right now with, you know, social media being what it is, but it is up to us to

really see if their opinion matters. Is it going to affect your job? Is it going to affect your family? What is it affecting? And if it's only affecting our pride or our, you know, sense of self, then why are we giving these people so much importance? What I do is I take the opinion of my family, my friends, my team, my core circle. And if they say something, I hear them and I understand it, but not the millions of people for who, you know, I'm dinner table conversation, which doesn't mean it won't hurt. But after a few days of like feeling bad about it or whatever I've usually been able to come out on the healthier side by realizing that you know the opinions don't affect my job so then they shouldn't affect me but um but when it comes to my friends and family like of course

their opinions will always have more credence than anybody else yeah i mean thank you for sharing that i think you know it's something i i used to struggle with a lot but i've certainly feel a lot more calm about it now and i feel you know i feel if there's something is bothering me with a social media comment it's about self-reflecting for me and going okay is the reason you're reacting or getting het up because you're knackered or you've not slept, you're quite emotionally volatile at the moment, all right, is there a bit of truth in there or is it preying on an insecurity of mine? And I found that as a really nice way of giving myself a bit of empowerment over the process that, oh, there's something I can work on here because I am a bit insecure about this potentially. But as I reflect on what you're saying and as I think about this, I think,

Priyanka, that, you know what, as a guy, I'm not going to get it about my weight. I'm not going to get it really about my appearance. Whereas for a woman, particularly a famous woman like yourself in the public eye, you know, anything goes right. People feel it's okay to comment about a woman, particularly a famous woman like yourself in the public eye, you know, anything goes right. People feel it's okay to comment about a woman's appearance and their weight and the way that they look. I mean, has that been troublesome during your career? Is that something you think is changing? You're obviously someone who really speaks up for, you know, equality, diversity, women's rights. You know, how do you look at that these days? Before we get back to this week's episode, I just wanted to let you know that I am doing my

very first national UK theatre tour. I am planning a really special evening where I share how you can break free from the habits that are holding you back and make meaningful changes in your life that truly last. It is called the Thrive Tour. Be the architect of your health and happiness. So many people tell me that health feels really complicated, but it really doesn't need to be. In my live event, I'm going to simplify health and together we're going to learn the skill of happiness, the secrets to optimal health, how to break free from the habits that are holding you back in your life, and I'm going to teach you how to make changes that actually last. Sound good? All you have to do is go to drchatterjee.com forward slash tour,

and I can't wait to see you there. This episode is also brought to you by the Three Question Journal, the journal that I designed and created in partnership with Intelligent Change. Now, journaling is something that I've been recommending to my patients for years. It can help improve sleep, lead to better decision making and reduce symptoms of anxiety and depression. It's also been shown to decrease emotional stress, make it easier to turn new behaviours into long-term habits and improve our relationships. There are of course many different ways to journal. And as with most things, it's important that you find the method that works best for you. One method that you may want to consider is the one that I outline in the three-question journal.

In it, you will find a really simple and structured way of answering the three most impactful questions I believe that we can all ask ourselves every morning and every evening. Answering these questions will take you less than five minutes, but the practice of answering them regularly will be transformative. Since the journal was published in January, I have received hundreds of messages from people telling me how much it has helped them and how much more in control of their lives they now feel. Now, if you already have a journal or you don't actually want to buy a journal, that is completely fine. I go through in detail all of the questions within the three question journal completely free on episode 413

of this podcast. But if you are keen to check it out, all you have to do is go to drchatterjee.com forward slash journal, or click on the link in your podcast app. I feel like it's unfortunately, something that we've ourselves created, right? Like the standard of beauty of what women should look like or even for guys what you know you should look like or um and that standard of beauty is reflected in the entertainment business tremendously but it's changing and um there's a large conversation around that change and to me honestly I haven't um I'm I'm very realistic about that uh my weight side of it for me like every year after Diwali and Christmas you know I definitely put on a few

pounds and that's normal for anyone else and I'm not ashamed of that I work towards the summer I work out and then I'm back to my bikini body and then the holidays come about again and then you put on a little bit more weight, you know, and it's fine. I'm someone who's had a balanced sort of relationship with my body, but I know there are a lot of women out there that, you know, it's much harder for them because that standard of beauty has sort of been ingrained with, you know, what beautiful should look like. And, um, I've been sort of, I've been lucky to not have, you know, crumbled underneath that pressure because I think I had really strong role models, um, in my family, the women in my family, you know, with a lot of sense of self and

a sense of confidence. And, you know, I kind of am, I'm okay with the way I look. And to me, it was just really amusing. And at the same time, when I was feeling really dark at that time, when I was in a sad place, it was, I was like, wow, people will say anything and do anything for attention. You have to take away the power from the trolls. If I started like giving importance to that, I would not be able to live. One thing that I've loved in my deep dive into you, and I've been watching videos and reading your book, I've been trying to learn as much as I can in preparation for talking to you. And it's been a lot of fun, I've got to say. So thank you for that. I've really

enjoyed it. Thank you for doing the research. A lot of people don't. Well, no, it's my pleasure. I feel, you know, I've got the opportunity of speaking to you for up to an hour and I feel it's respectful to you to have done my research so that we can, you know, I can have a respectful and authentic conversation with you. But one thing I've, I think why I really like this is because it's in contrast to me. So you've always, from what I can tell, been very, I should be careful how I wear this. I'm not saying it's in contrast to me, but you've been very proud to be Indian, right? And it seems as though you're very proud wherever you go, that that is who you are. That is your nationality. It's how you were brought up. And you spent a lot of your time growing up in India. I know you came to

America for a few years in your teenage years. I'm someone like many second generation immigrants. I hate terms like that, but I guess that is what I would be defined as is, you know, my mum and dad came here from India and I'm born and brought up here. People like me often have a real conflict of identity, particularly in our teenage years, where we, you know, we have all our Indian cultures and practices at home. And then we've got our Western friends at school. And there's this real clash of cultures. And it takes, you know, often in our teenage years, we almost, it's not that we're embarrassed to be Indian, but it's, we almost want to suppress that down so we can fit in with the world around us. And so when we get a bit older and more secure in ourselves,

now I am so proud to be of Indian backgrounds. I'm so proud to actually talk about these things and share these things. Whereas I don't think in my teenage years, I would openly do it because I would be scared of being judged. Now, how does that play out for you? Because you've been born and brought up in India, yet you've gone around the world, you've been in America, you've conquered the Indian film industry, now you're taking on Hollywood. And I'm interested, how has your experience been as someone who's not from America natively, yet now has a home and a house there? You know, is there anything from that you can share?

Because I'm interested, where does that strong secureness come from? Because I certainly didn't have it. I didn't have it when I was in high school at all. I was bullied because of the fact that I was Indian. I was... In America, this is. In America, this is. In America, this is. I was in America from, you know, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th grade.

So very formative years of my life. But I was made to feel extremely different and, you know, sort of aware of my ethnicity. and, you know, sort of aware of my ethnicity. And I would try not to be Indian at all either. I would like to, I was embarrassed as well. Exactly probably how you're talking was confusing to me because I was made to feel like I was different and I needed to fit in. And the only way to fit in would be to be American and speak like that and dress like that and not be Indian and not talk about Diwali and not eat my Indian achars and all the things, right? And as a teenager, I felt that too. I started working in the entertainment industry and I started specifically when I came to America

and I started looking for work in America and I kind of figured it out why we felt that way, why brown kids and so many of us around the world, right, outside of India, that is such a large South Asian population in Britain, in everywhere, in every part of the world, because of colonization, a lot of us moved for opportunities, a lot of us were moved. So I realized that we are one-fifth of the world's population, right? But think about pop culture and seeing the representation of ourselves in pop culture. We only saw ourselves represented in Indian culture, right? So only the Indians who knew Indian do movies and we were only stuck to our community. Who did we see in,

at least in American pop culture where I was growing up it was just Apu in the Simpsons I never saw a brown girl on TV or I never saw um as the lead of a mainstream show or on the cover of a magazine so when I was told that you know you're different and you're weird I believed it because I didn't see anyone like me at as a teenager and that became such a big impetus for me when I joined entertainment, that I want to see brown people in mainstream entertainment, in English language mainstream entertainment as leads, not as a check in the box, not as an important character, but as leads, as running the show, because that's what's going to normalize for young girls out there is when you see me or someone who looks like me playing Holy on Jimmy Fallon, when you're like,

oh, Holy is a cool thing. Jimmy's playing it. It normalizes who we are. And we have not had the opportunity to do that. And our generation needs to do it. needs to do it. Here, here. I agree. I sort of second what you say so much. And, Branko, you said that about children. And my daughter's eight.

And she was saying yesterday, so, Daddy, how many podcasts you've got this week? I said, well, I've got three, darling, this week. She goes, well, who are you talking to tomorrow? I said, well, it's this lady. She's called Priyanka. I said, well, what does she do? And I said, well, she's an actor, she's a musician,

she's a writer, she's a producer. And it was so great to be able to show her that, hey, you know what? That's somebody who kind of looks like you in terms of your skin colour and your hair colour. And she's not sticking in one box. She's doing anything she wants. And I think it is inspiring when people see, particularly because you're a woman as well. And I'm aware that we have lived and still do in a very male dominant world. So I think doing what you're doing is so inspiring. Did you realise how inspiring it was when you were doing it? Or has that come from feedback from people telling you, you make me think this is now possible? That's absolutely not the reason why I do it. I don't, I'm not someone who's looking to inspire people. I'm looking to change something,

not just for myself. But I feel like that is where I'm going to be of most use in this world, that is where I'm going to be of most use in this world is if I can contribute towards the arts in a way that has pushed the goalpost for us. And only because when I came here five, six years ago, when I did my TV show Quantico, I was the first South Asian lead ever of an American TV show. I mean, that's absurd to me. And unfortunately, Hollywood is predominantly global entertainment. It is consumed everywhere, right? English language entertainment. And how is it, it just blew my mind that the concept of a brown person being a lead in a mainstream show, not a genre movie or not an independent movie, but like a mainstream million, multimillion dollar show or movie, it just didn't exist.

And that was my impetus. I, it's not for, you know, the by-product and the bonus of it is hopefully young girls or boys or immigrants that come into America will not feel so alone. I know if I was in high school and I saw maybe, I don't know, some TV show or Buffy the Vampire Slayer may have been, you know, a brown girl, I would have felt a sense of self maybe. I wouldn't have felt so isolated in those hallways in my high school and I'm hoping because pop culture is consumed so large I'm hoping with other people like the white tiger for example my movie it's an all Indian star cast and it's the number one movie worldwide on the largest streaming platform in the world that's an all Indian star cast. To me, it's historic.

And I'm so happy to be able to be at the helm of that because I know it will change things for people like your daughter to see themselves represented in normal situations, you know, in powerful jobs, in whatever they consume. Yeah, I completely agree. And I think people who've never experienced that actually just have no idea what that feels like. I think that's what it is. There's so, like, it's people who haven't experienced it. They don't, you know, I remember as a kid, you know, as in many Asian immigrant families,

the kind of three options available to you are medicine, law, or engineering. That is your reality. You know, I became a doctor. I said to people, you know what? In some ways, it's no big deal because all I was surrounded by were doctors. That was my norm. So of course, that is one of the things that I ended up doing. But this goes so far what you say. I mean, I've said this a couple of times on the podcast before I checked just before we started in the UK in the top 50 podcasts at the moment I'm the only non-white host in the top 50 so there's there's you know which is which is incredible in 2021 that we're still saying that um I didn't realize how powerful this stuff is I've I've just been following my own

path in my own career. Other people send me messages saying, hey, Rangan, listen, it's so great seeing you be an author and a doctor and a TV presenter. It makes me think I'm going to try and go for one of those things now, like people younger. Exactly. And it gives you a buzz, right? You go, oh, wow. And you must get this all the time from people. Wow. And you must get this all the time from people. I mean, I really just think that for the ones who have been given this opportunity, like you, like me, it is our job to make the table larger. It is our responsibility to bring to fore how important representation is. And I swear to God, I did not know this till I started looking for a job outside of my country. I didn't think about it as much. When I was in high school, I didn't even

think about it. But when I came back to America and I was like, wait a minute, this is not what I'm looking for. I'm not a check in the box. Why can't my dream be like everyone else's dream? And, you know, I'm a bold girl. I like breaking down doors. So I went in there charging. And that's going to be our responsibility, you know, just seeing the fact that you're doing what you're doing. And other people who are sort of South Asian and saying, I'm going to make sure that our next generation doesn't inherit those, just those three options. Because we're living in, you know, in a time of information. We're living in, we have so much information that an idea can become a career.

You just have to find a gap in the market. What is it that you want to do? It doesn't have to be just doctor, engineer, or lawyer. Because even that was my options too. I was studying engineering. And then my life just pivoted into the arts. And I realized that I could do that. I could find business in that. I could find opportunities in that. And that could become a vocation. And I would love to open up that world of possibilities to parents specifically um south asian parents who who feel like you know instability when their kids sort of you know pivot from the the stable sort of jobs but this is this is a time

and a generation where ideas are our present and you know we should we need to let our kids sort of dream yeah i mean if we had more time i'd go into white tiger i would definitely recommend everyone listening to this or watching it on youtube go and watch white tiger on netflix it is fabulous you mean i know you're a producer and it's and you're an actor and it's it's incredible and to see this all indian cast on this mainstream global platform was incredible. So huge congratulations on that. I mean, as we start to wind down the conversation, I think that, you know, celebrity, riches, nice house, going on holidays, you know, marrying a pop star, right? Whatever those things are. And many kids and many of us actually are convinced that that is what success means. You are someone who has actually pretty much ticked off every single box of how society

typically defines success. That's why I'm interested, as someone who has done all that, what does being successful mean to you? I think successful is definitely individual to everyone. I mean, my version of success just happens to be in the public eye, so you know it. But there are so many incredibly successful people out there. I think success is really being able to wake up in the morning and saying that, am I excited about going to work?

Am I excited about the day that I'm going to lead? Am I, when you put your head to rest on your pillow at night to say that I feel calm and I feel like, you know, I'm enjoying the meal that I'm eating. I feel like when you have contentment in your heart, that is the best testament of success. And that has nothing to do with your bank account. It has nothing to do with your holidays or who you marry. It really has to do with the state of mind. I believe having a sense of purpose and being able to be successful in that purpose is, to me, success. And my sense of purpose is, you know, contributing to the arts. Do you have contentment in your heart? I actually really do. I think, you know, this book was very healing for me. And the reason why

I could scratch beneath the surface the way I did was because I'm in a secure content place because I'm not haunted by my fears of my childhood or my past you know I'm I'm in a little bit of a I'm on solid ground and I think that to me is a definition of success for somebody who's listening to you who is in a bad place at the moment and is struggling in their life and they think you know I can't relate to you who is in a bad place at the moment and is struggling in their life and they think you know I can't relate to you because you are you know you're wealthy you're famous you your life doesn't seem the same as mine do you have any words that you would potentially share with them I think a lot of people think that you know know, I'm a public person or, you know, my life looks bright and shiny because I'm a celebrity or I hate that word, but whatever. behind every person that you see.

And I think a lot of people forget that sometimes, that I bleed the same red and I have the same heart and failures affect me in the same way. I just don't have the luxury to show it because then it becomes public news, which exposes me even more. But I think everybody has their own issues but what we need to recognize people are as humans and know that you know eventually um everyone bleeds and allow people to be vulnerable and including public people

do you feel lighter since you wrote the book? I think because I was lighter, I wrote the book. You know what I mean? Like, I think because I'd reached a place where I wasn't afraid of my journey, I could write the book, but I do feel healed in many ways after writing the book. And I feel a sense of achievement. I was terrified of writing a book. But it was healing, definitely. Pranke, I think you've done such incredible work throughout your career. You are inspirational to many people all around the globe. As I said at the start, I honestly think it's a wonderful read. I think people will find it illuminating. I think they'll learn about

themselves. They'll learn another side to you that they probably don't know about. And so, you know, I wish you all the best with, you know, trying to launch in four countries, four time zones at the same time. I don't know what your doctor's saying to you about your sleep and your circadian rhythm at this time, but stay well and look after yourself because that's pretty gruelling. And yeah, good luck for everything you do in the future. Thank you so much, Rangan. This was such a great conversation. I really hope you enjoyed that conversation. And as always, take a moment to reflect.

What were some of your key learnings? Can you apply some of them, even just one of them into your own life? And if that episode connected with you, please do share it with your friends and family. Doing so, especially if you send them a personal note at the same time, is something that has benefits for you both. It's going to make your friends feel good. It's also going to make you happier because you've done something kind for somebody else. It is a win-win all round. Now, before we sign out, I want to let you know about Friday Five. It's my brand new weekly newsletter that contains five short doses of positivity. It's a practical tip for your health,

a book or article that I found inspiring, a quote that has caused me to stop and reflect. Basically, anything that I feel would be helpful and uplifting. It started at the turn of the year and your feedback has been incredible so far. If you like my podcast and you like what I stand for, I think you are going to really, really enjoy it. It is not spam. It aims to bring you value every single Friday. So if you're interested in signing up, you can do so at drchastity.com forward slash Friday five.

And if you're new to my work, you may not be aware that I have written four books that are available to buy all over the world. I cover all kinds of different topics like nutrition, sleep, stress, movement, behavior change, weight loss, physical health, mental health, emotional health. So if any of those topics interest you, please do take a moment to check them out. A big thank you to my wife for the Art of

Strategy for producing this week's podcast and to Richard Hughes for audio engineering. Have a wonderful week. Make sure you have pressed subscribe and I'll be back in one week's time with my latest conversation. Remember, you are the architect of your own health. Making lifestyle changes always worth it. Because when you feel better, you live more.