Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - #199 How To Design Your Perfect Life with Peter Crone

Episode Date: July 13, 2021

CAUTION: This podcast episode contains mild swearing. Today’s guest believes that the only thing separating you from living your perfect life, is the dialogue that exists within your subconscious mind. This philosophy is very much in alignment with my own and so I was delighted to welcome Peter Crone, a.k.a ‘the mind architect’ back onto the podcast for the third time. Peter is a writer, speaker and thought leader in human potential and has worked with world-famous actors, athletes and the business elite yet the lessons he teaches are universal truths that apply to each and every one of us. We begin the conversation discussing how the biggest illusion that humans have is believing that their experience is generated from circumstance – that they only feel the way they feel because of what is going on around them. This makes us a victim of circumstance. Peter explains that in fact, the suffering we feel is caused and created by ourselves and we have the power to choose how we respond to any situation. This he says, is true freedom.  This way of thinking applies to all areas of our life, including our relationships. Our primal desire to be loved and accepted often means that we put the onus on the people around us to provide security and our sense of worth. We expect others to behave a certain way towards us and when they don’t, we feel hurt and sometimes rejected. Peter explains what is really going on in these situations and what we can do to start changing them. We also talk about how holding onto a sense of identity can be problematic, the role emotions play in disease and how parents can help their children reduce the likelihood of developing negative thought patterns. If you heard my last conversations with Peter, you’ll know how life-changing this way of thinking can be. This conversation has even more anecdotes and I think it will leave you with lots of ideas to reflect on in your own life. Thanks to our sponsors: http://blublox.com/livemore http://www.vivobarefoot.com/uk/livemore http://www.athleticgreens.com/livemore Show notes available at https://drchatterjee.com/199 Follow me on https://www.instagram.com/drchatterjee   Follow me on https://www.facebook.com/DrChatterjee   Follow me on https://twitter.com/drchatterjeeuk DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

That's why I feel my work has helped so many people who have had sicknesses and diseases, some of which have been chronic, because as soon as they let go of the internal mechanism that creates that dis-ease and they find peace, then their external physiology eventually is given the permission to actually heal itself and miracles literally do happen. Hi, my name is Rangan Chatterjee. Welcome to Feel Better, Live More. Hey guys, how are you doing? Today's episode is officially the last episode of the current season. I think my team and I have put out a brand new episode every single week since last September. And as much as I love recording and putting out each podcast, it is hard work and something I try my best to juggle around all of my other personal and

professional responsibilities. Now, if you're a long time listener to the show, you will know that spending time with my family is one of the most important things to me. And I try my best to ring fence some time every summer to switch off, stop recording, and be fully present with my wife and my kids. Now, I know that many of you really look forward to each week's episode and that my podcast has earned a place in your weekly schedule. Don't forget there are almost 200 past episodes to listen to or re-listen to and you know I think many of the conversations are well worth a second listen. I know myself that if I go back to certain conversations I often hear something different or an idea lands with me in a different way

compared to the first time. My plan is to be back right at the start of September, ready and raring to go with a brand new season, long form conversations every Wednesday, and the shorter bite-sized episodes every Friday. Now today's conversation I think is a really special one. Just as I did last July, I decided to end the season with a conversation with Mr. Peter Crenn. Now, Peter is often called the mind architect. He's considered to be a thought leader in human potential. And he's worked with world famous actors, athletes, and the business elites. Yet the lessons he teaches are universal truths that apply to each and every one of us. Now, really interestingly, my first

two conversations with Peter, episodes 82 and 121, are two of the most listened to episodes ever on my show. And I think that really speaks to the importance of the topics and themes that we've discussed in the past and continue to explore in today's show. Peter believes that the only thing separating you from living your perfect life is the dialogue that exists within your subconscious mind. And this is a philosophy that is very much in alignment with my own. We begin today's conversation discussing how the biggest illusion that human beings have is believing that their experience is generated from circumstance, is believing that their experience is generated from circumstance, that they only feel the way they feel because of what is going on around them. Peter explains that on the contrary, the suffering we feel is actually caused and created by ourselves. And we cover a whole range

of different topics in today's conversation. Why negative thoughts are so prevalent, what is really going on when we feel anxious, as well as how we can use relationships as a way of learning about ourselves. You see, all of us have a primal desire to be loved and accepted. And because of this, we often put the onus on the people around us to provide security and strengthen our sense of worth. We expect others to behave a certain way towards us and when they don't, we feel hurt and sometimes rejected. Peter explains what is really going on in these situations and what we can do to start changing them. We also talk about how holding on too tightly to certain identities can be problematic, the role emotions play in disease and how parents can help their children reduce the likelihood of developing

negative thought patterns in the future. I think this is a super powerful conversation and one that's going to leave you with lots of ideas and themes to reflect on in your own life. I really hope you enjoyed listening. And now my conversation with the mind architect, Mr. Peter Crone. Why do so many of us these days seem to struggle with negative thoughts and anxiety? Well, I mean, what's going on in the world that certainly hasn't helped the issue right like there's just an immense amount of uncertainty right now and any organism's primordial imperative is to survive right so let's just start there so what does that mean

in plain english as human beings our predominant fear is for our own existence, right? So we want to perpetuate our living. And so anything that is perceived as a potential threat to that is going to inspire fear. So if we look at anxiety on a spectrum, there's going to be these bedfellows, apprehension, concern, worry, fear. They're all bedfellows of anxiety, right? Sort of as a broad umbrella term. And they all speak to our perception of a future that really is undesirable, right? One of the quotes I use, I say, most people are trying to avoid a bad future that hasn't happened yet. So that perception, that projection, the brain, which is designed to predict and protect, is creating an illusion of

a future that is undesirable to one's existence. Now, that could be truly an esoteric conversation, existential, or it could be like, I'm going to get in trouble with the boss, or my wife is going to be mad at me. But it's not really a threat to our literal existence. But to the ego, there's a perception that something, quote, unquote, bad is going to happen. And so in present time, there's an apprehension about that. And then there's, as I said, there's a gradient of like panic attacks and terror, to anxiety, to fear, there's a gradient of panic attacks and terror to anxiety, to fear. There's different iterations of that concern for the future that ironically our own brain is creating. That's the madness, right?

So I have complete compassion for people who struggle with anxiety. I'm actually doing a workshop on anxiety this coming Saturday. And I want people to understand it's self-generated. So to answer your question, why? Well, because as mammals, as humans, we want to exist and the brain is sort of designed to look out for anything sort of potentially going to threaten that. And so there's this mild unrest where we feel like, ooh, something could go down where my life is going to be in jeopardy. It's primal. At the deepest level, it's a primal way that we just try to survive. The quintessential saber-toothed tiger out there that might take our life when we go out to get

food, except now you're going to Tesco's to pick up some bread. You're not going to probably get mauled by a saber-toothed tiger, but you might run into someone who you don't get along with and you don't want to have to deal with that sort of disagreement energy. Anxiety then at its core, or fear I should say at its core, is there to protect us. So if we are in real physical danger, we want fear, right? We want that as a protective response so that we can change our behavior, take aversive actions so that what we think may happen doesn't happen. I guess it's when we start to utilize that same mechanism, that same way of thinking when the threat actually just

isn't real. It's this imagined threat in the future. And that's why I love that quote, you know, we're trying to prevent this future and we're getting anxious in the present about a future that hasn't yet happened. Yet so many people do that. So how does understanding that help people who've actually got anxiety? So first of all, awareness of the pattern to recognize that that is the tendency of a human being, and especially when somebody's had, you know, some past traumas, right, which fill in the blank, it's every human being, right? Everybody's going to have gone through their version of something to the extremes of physical abuse, sexual abuse, which is of course abhorrent and awful, to maybe somebody who just wasn't picked for the footy team and they felt left out, right? But to

a child, it's traumatic. And so the brain, whenever, again, one of my quotes, which I know you're familiar with, I say past hurts informs future fear. So wherever we've had any past hurts, then the brain is going to go, well, that sucked. I don't want to do that again. I'm going to make sure that I can personally manage and control my environment such that I mitigate the repetition of the thing that hurts, right? Which seems very logical. Unfortunately, it's really not because what happens is we tend to perpetuate the very thing we're trying to avoid because we're actually in the energy of it. We haven't reconciled it. So when I'm helping people, I'm really cleaning up their history so that they're no longer using that as evidence to project into a future possible repetition of something that hurt them. to a future possible repetition of something that hurt them right so like I take one of my NBA players basketball who had the worst league I think I spoke about him on the first podcast

yeah you did he had the worst league average in terms of free throw shooting at 37 percent the league average is 75 so it's not even 50% of that, like it's half of the average. And so what was happening in his brain, because it's for an athlete who's being paid millions of dollars to perform, it's, it's embarrassing. It's, you know, he felt guilt and shame and all of these things that human beings do everything we can to avoid. So when he's standing there, his brain is like, well, make sure you don't miss again, because that really hurts. But now he's standing there, his brain is like, well, make sure you don't miss again, because that really hurts. But now he's actually put himself into a position of a preemptive failure, which for an athlete is kryptonite, because now he's tense and he's worried, which doesn't allow him to perform

from the place that he does effortlessly when he's relaxed. So it's really, it becomes self-fulfilling. This is when people talk about this self-fulfilling prophecy of the mind as well. If we worry about a fear, then we tend to actually live from a place energetically with a frequency that is the precursor to it. So that, you know, that's where we, you know, we attract the very thing that we're trying to avoid, ironically, you know, we attract the very thing that we're trying to avoid, ironically, until such time that we get to a place where we can go, oh, my gosh, I'm just living from history. And my hurts and fears are the byproduct of things that I haven't fully accepted in my life. So to answer your question, first thing is the awareness of the pattern. Secondly, compassion, it's okay, you're

human, you know, there's not a human being on the planet who doesn't have some kind of fear. It's okay. If you're a parent, you understand if the kid is, if your child is scared, you hold a space for them. You don't berate them or you don't judge them and go, that's stupid. You have compassion. You're like, it's okay. Come here. You would hold them. You'd give them a hug. You'd reassure them. So that's what we want to do for ourselves is recognize, oh, okay, it's just the primal pattern in me, where I'm trying to avoid something that could hurt me. That's, you know, survival, as you said. But it's unnecessary, because I'm the one creating the illusion of the future that I'm now trying to avoid. When you when you see that part, it becomes kind of comical.

You've got one brain. Like if you really break it down, one brain projecting a future that you don't want, and then the same brain that created the illusory future is now trying to avoid it. Yeah. I mean, when you really see that, it becomes borderline comical.

I tell people that you can't help but laugh when you realize the only thing upsetting you is your own imagination. What I love about your approach and our previous conversations, Pisa, is you really help bring an awareness to people. And I think that awareness is such a crucial and critical step because until we get that awareness, we're sort of walking around with blindfolds on. We sort of are at the mercy of other people and other things around us influencing the way we act. And we kind of feel that if the world around us changed, if the people around us changed and behaved in a different way, we'd be okay. When you get to that point, I'd like to think I did a few years back where you realize that that is not the case at all. That is a myth that you have created inside your brain.

It is freedom. And I can see why you say that the main products you offer people is freedom. And I'd love you to sort of define what do you mean by freedom? Because I think if you ask 10 people on the street, would you like to be free? They say, yeah, but I guess those 10 people might have a different definition of what freedom really means. So what does it mean to you? They also might think that they already are, they're in lies to the real conundrum, right? Because you go up to Joe Blow on the street and say, you know, are you free? They'll be like, well, yeah, like, you know, they're under the impression from a conscious perspective, meaning the conscious thinking they

have that they have free will, that they, you know, if they want to go to work, they go to work. If they want to go to the pub, they go to the pub. Like they're under the impression that because they have some illusion of choice, that they're free. What I'm pointing to, and you articulated it beautifully, is that one of the biggest illusions of a human being is that our experience is generated from circumstance. So therefore, ipso facto, it's only sensical that if we think we feel the way we feel because of what's going on, well, then what are we going to do? We're going to try and control what's going on because that's the precursor to how we feel, and we want to feel good but that's exhausting there's no freedom there at all that's called victim of circumstance

right so my product what i mean about freedom to quote krishnamurti who was one of my sort of teachers when i was very young and i found his books he'd passed. He's sort of an old traditional Indian guru. And he had a beautiful quote. He said, this is my secret. I don't mind what happens. And, you know, there's, if you can really feel into the energy of that, it's incredibly liberating. Now, I've got an addendum to that. I say, yeah, I don't mind what happens. And I have a personal preference, right? So I can get to a place where, yeah, I'm okay with the fact that whatever's going on is going on. And if I don't have any direct control over that, then it's a futile endeavor for me to just grapple with something that's not in my immediate zone of some sort of responsibility. So that's where we

want to reconcile and surrender and go, okay, well, it is the way it is. It's not like I don't want my flight to be cancelled, for example. And that's going to have the ramifications of now I'm going to be late for my meeting wherever I'm flying to, or I'll miss my connection or whatever it is. I don't want that to happen. But if I'm sitting at the gate in an airport and just getting really bent out of shape, that's all self-inflicted. Now I'm a victim of circumstance versus to stay centered, to stay at peace, to have a much bigger understanding of the universe as a whole and the things that are unfolding are in accordance with how things are unfolding. And not to be in a state of

resistance to that is what elicits the internal experience of freedom. I'm no longer at the mercy of what's unfolding. In fact, we never were. That's the irony. We think we're, you know, I'm upset because the missus said something, or I'm upset because my family did something, or I'm upset because I lost some money on the stock market. No, none of that ever affected

anyone. It didn't. What affected us is our reaction to it. So it's still us. So I'm helping people transcend that world of self-inflected suffering under the guise of the illusion of that it was the external world that was the instigator of your suffering. No, it looked that way, but it never was. And once you see the truth, which is, wow, I am 100% responsible for the experience of my life. I'm the one generating how I feel. Then why would anybody with an ounce of intelligence want to generate suffering? They wouldn't. And that's freedom. Yeah. It's sort of beyond intelligence though, isn't it? Because you're right. People, when they hear that, they don't want to generate their own suffering, yet they often still do.

And it's not because there's not a desire to change it. Because ultimately, we create the narrative. We can write the story that we want to write about that event that just happened. narrative, we can write the story that we want to write about that event that just happened. And, you know, why not choose a story that that kind of sits well with us and keeps us relaxed and calm. And, you know, I think that plane example, the plane being late, or the train being late, or the bus being late, whatever it is, right? I think it's a really good example, because it's a very tangible, kind of day to day event that affects a lot of people. So if we just use that example, I don't know if you've had an experience with this recently or not, but what can someone do in that situation? So, you know, they're waiting for, they're waiting on the train, they're waiting for the train to take them into London because they've got a meeting,

but the train's cancelled because of road travel works or got a meeting, but the trains cancel because of road travel works or whatever works, rail works, I should say. And so like, man, I'm going to miss my meeting. And then you can actually feel that stress start to build up in your body as that is happening. So in that moment, what can someone do to kind of change the narrative and stop that lack of ease building up inside themselves? Great question. So first of all, what you said is like to feel like the primal reaction to that, right? Like you can feel the stress, you might get a little sweaty in the armpits, the brain starts to ruminate a little bit more, you're trying to figure out solutions. to ruminate a little bit more. You're trying to figure out solutions. It's a mild form of panic,

right? Panic is a strong word, but really viscerally, biologically, we go into a state of mild panic. So why? Well, the subtext of the reaction is that there's going to be some sort of pending doom, right? In lay terms, there's this feeling that it's not going to work out like whatever it is that we think we need to get we're we're putting the future in a context of concern that whatever the intention is going to work or going to a job interview or meeting you know maybe you've got a hot date you're on the way to and you're not going to be there on time. There's this feeling fundamentally of the experience of loss, which for a human being is very scary because it fights the primal instinct to feel secure. We want to feel held. We want to feel safe. And when something in any way intervenes potentially with what we think is going to give us that security, we think about all the things that give us security, like money is a big one, job security, financial security, even a relationship, having some sort of love or companionship as a form of security.

as a form of security. So when there's any perceived threat that could pull any of those things away, then the primal urge in us is like, oh, no, I'm not going to be okay. Now, to notice that pattern and realize it's illusory, you feel that way. But as I tell nearly everyone, your feelings are a lousy indicator of truth. Right? Just because you feel that way, it's not what's going to happen. So if you're sitting there and maybe you're a little bit nervous, you're on the way to a job interview, and it means a lot to you because certainly with what's been going on in the world, maybe you've been laid off, made redundant or something, and you're feeling the pressure of paying rent or your mortgage and providing for your family. These are all very real situations.

And so going to the interview means a lot to you. So wherever we put more significance, we're actually also leaving ourselves more vulnerable, right? Wherever we put more importance on something, we're actually creating more potential resistance, right? So once we see that and go, okay, this means so much to me i really need this job well then if the train's cancelled then the cancellation is like magnified right because there's the significance to the event itself which appears like it's not going to work now what could someone do in that situation well first of all you just got to deal with reality right which is you can't just like click your fingers and, you know, sort of like Alice in Wonderland or something appear at the interview site. You know, you just got to deal with it. Maybe you get out of the underground

and you get a cab and, or maybe the next train is only going to be 20 minutes. I don't know. And you'd be responsible. You maintain integrity. So you would call the person, the company that you're going for an interview and say, you know, I really apologize for the inconvenience. I'm on my way. Unfortunately, a train has been canceled. This really means a lot to me. I hope that we can, you know, reschedule for 30 minutes from now. You know, you don't know how that's going to be met when you come from an authentic place. They might find that to be the most important part of your interview process because of the way you dealt with it.

So you could energetically say, that's actually the best thing that ever happened because I can display to this potential employer how responsible I am and the degree of integrity I have that I'm going to communicate to you and let you know that yes, life happens, but I'm handling it gracefully. And hopefully that bodes well for you looking at me as a potential employee where there can be stressful situations, but I'm already displaying before I even get to the interview site that I can handle these things. So it could, through reframing, be the best part of your day that it got cancelled and you were able to demonstrate the ability that you have

to have integrity, responsibility, and authenticity. And therefore, you got the job before you even got there, right? That's how my brain works is everything is an opportunity. And it reminds me in kanji, which is the Japanese japanese symbols the word for um challenge and opportunity it's the same symbol love it yeah but it's just it's so like just the energetics of understanding that is so okay it looks like something bad happened in my world nothing ever bad happens just something happens and then it's the way that we choose to reframe it. Yeah, I love that. And if we play that story out even further,

and I think the key thing there for me was, you know, having integrity and coming from a place of authenticity when you call up that person to reschedule or explain what's happened. And yeah, that could be the best part of the interview process. But let's say the people who you have an interview with didn't like that.

They said, no, no, we're not going to do it. If you can't show up on time, then you can also continue that narrative and go, oh, I got the opportunity to stress test this company and see how they handle some very basic, simple things in life. This didn't go the way I planned it to. And that's how they responded. I'm glad I know now what I didn't go and sign up for that company. Do you know what I mean? There's infinite possibilities.

Yeah, there's a myriad of different ways that we can interpret it. But as I was saying, the fundamental subtext that I want people to understand is that regardless of what happens, your life's taken care of. And that's the subtext that allows you to sink into surrender with a really profound sense of trust. Now, it's not a knowing. You don't know what's going to happen. It's an energetic experience where, like I joked, I think even again on our first podcast, like I'm a trust fund baby. Not, you know, my parents both died when I was very young I wasn't left one penny because whatever money my dad had which wasn't much went to a stepmother and yeah I trust the universe I like when things in my personal life my subjective

wants and not wants don't unfold as I would like I still still trust that, okay, even though I wanted something and it didn't happen, the fact that it didn't manifest is in ways that I don't understand still for my benefit. Right? That's the profound, deeper sense of like trust that things are unfolding in a way that little old me, I don't fully understand, yet I am still the beneficiary of. And that gives people an internal sense of calm and peace. I'm totally on board with that. But I suspect there'll be some people who push back against a thought like that. They think, well, what do you mean that I just need to trust that everything's working out the way that it is? You know, I'm struggling to make my ends, you know, I'm struggling to make ends meet. You know,

I don't have the job of my dreams. I see everyone around me crushing it at life and I'm kind of struggling. What do you mean everything's sort of panning out the way it was meant to? And I guess that sort of dovetails into something else, which is coming out in this conversation, something I've heard you say before that we are 100% responsible our lives but what would you say to those people who sort of push back a bit ago you know it's all right for you buddy but i wasn't born into i don't know money opportunity i didn't go to a great school yeah do you know what i mean? Because I guess, is that something you hear a lot with your work? Or is that the pushback that if you ever get any pushback, would you say that is one of those things? I don't get a lot of it. But I mean, I totally understand your point. And it's very valid that people feel that way. But equally, for those

people who don't know my story, I didn't even have parents. I wasn't left a penny. I wasn't born into money, you know? So it's not like it's a, an excuse, you know, like for sure. If you look at a trust fund baby and whoever it is, like literally like the Paris Hiltons and whatever people who've got stacks of cash. Yeah. If they sit there and they espouse about, Oh, don't worry. Like that comes across as a bit disingenuous, you know, because like, well, duh, you know, you've never had to freaking lift a finger. You know, I've done, I've done it all, you know, like working at a waiter, like hoping that I get 50, 50 pence tip, or, you know, it's like the whole thing, you know, so, so it's a valid concern. First of all, I really always want to acknowledge people's reality, but it's nonetheless inaccurate. So we have to redefine what it is it means to be human and what everyone's after, right?

So the person who's struggling, they don't have the job of their dreams. Maybe they don't have money. They weren't left anything. Whatever their validation is for their woe, they're under the impression that their happiness, like we started this conversation, is dependent on their circumstance. But it still goes back to the same point that you're a victim of circumstance. But the happiness, the true happiness, which again, I shared on your podcast, is the absence of the pursuit of happiness or the absence of the search for happiness, right?

So it's not dependent on my circumstances. My joy and my inner peace is not because of something. It's my own semblance of centeredness and self-acceptance regardless of circumstance. That ironically is the precursor to everything changing around me. So the person who's pushing back a little bit to this previous conversation that we were on, they're just showing the resistance they have, the fight that is in them relative to their life circumstances. That itself, ironically, is the foundation of their suffering. Right. So their argument for why they're not happy is the actual precursor to why they're not happy, right? Do you know Byron Katie? She's, yeah. So she's a lovely, you know, I'm not that familiar with her work, but I've heard some of her quotes and one that comes to

mind that I really liked. She says, you know, when you fight life, you lose, but only 100% of the time. So if someone's in disagreement with anything, including me, I'm an expression of life in their view right now, they're listening to this podcast, they're listening to the conversation. And they're like, nah, this guy's full of shit. Like, well, that I'm just saying something. It's not like it's gospel. I'm just sharing my opinion. And hopefully, you know, as a man who cares with a big heart, who's sensitive, I'm just trying to change people's lives for the better. And if someone doesn't like that, well, okay, I, you know, that's fine. You can listen to somebody else, but your resistance to what I'm saying is your suffering. It's not because I'm saying something,

you know, there's a great line in the third matrix, which I'm sure you're familiar with the trilogy and theme of the day, trilogy with you and me today. But in the third one, the Zion, which is the headquarters for the quote unquote free souls, like Neo from, you know,anu Reeves' character, where all the people have been freed out of the Matrix, where they're in this sort of mental psychotic illusion, where again, like we're talking about, they think that their life is all about success and fame and the corner office and status and all of this. They are being under attack from the machines. they are being under attack from the machines. So everybody has to retreat to Zion, which is sort of at the center of the world or wherever it is. And for that reason, all the ships have

to come back to defend their home. And when Morpheus, Laurence Fishburne's character, comes back, he meets with the head of defense. And there's this contentious relationship between them as part of Hollywood. But, you know, the head of defense. And there's this contentious relationship between them as part of Hollywood. But, you know, the head of defense basically lets Morpheus have it. He said, I told everybody they've got to bring their ships back. We've got to defend Zion. And Morpheus has left his ship out in the Matrix so he can communicate with the Oracle, who's basically the fortune teller, because he wants to know the fate of the world and

is neo going to save everyone is he the chosen one right so the head of defense says damn it morpheus not everyone believes what you believe and morpheus says my beliefs do not require them to now it's a very powerful line right because what Because what he's saying, like the head of defense talking about you leaving the ship there because you believe in the one and whatever. He's like, not everyone believes what you believe. But Morpheus is so grounded in his beliefs that it doesn't matter what other people believe. Do you see? And that to me is such a powerful stance for somebody to be in where I'm not at the effect of other people's opinions. So I can listen to anybody tell anything from

Catholicism to Buddhism, if it's religion or it's politics. I listen from a place of they're just sharing their opinion. So I'm no longer at the mercy of something. And this is where people's egos are very fragile and where people get into fights and relationships because somebody says, blah, blah, blah. And their blah, blah, blah doesn't fit with the other person's blah, blah, blah belief. And now they fight versus no, you did. Okay. You have at it, believe whatever you want to believe. You know, if you think that you're going to come back as some goddess or a queen or that you lived in past lives as this knight in shining armor or you believe that... I mean, good luck to you. Have at it.

Let's see how it works. Who am I to tell you how to live your life? I mean, relationships are something that... They make the world go round, right? Relationships with other people, that's who we are. You said earlier in this conversation that the amount of importance you put on something, almost put the more importance you put on it, the more vulnerable you become, because the more kind of attached I guess you are to the outcome of however you're

sort of showing up in that realm. So let's say in the relationship realm, you really value your partner and therefore everything in that interaction means so much more to you. But it means if you're not careful, you can also be very vulnerable to feeling really bad and getting really upset. And I wanted to talk about relationships today. getting really upset. And I wanted to talk about relationships today. You know, through the lens through which you look at the human experience, what are some of these common patterns that come up in relationships that end up causing so much conflict? conflict. Just taking a quick break to give a shout out to AG1, one of the sponsors of today's show. Now, if you're looking for something at this time of year to kickstart your health, I'd highly recommend that you consider AG1. AG1 has been in my own life for over five years now.

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all you have to do is go to drinkag1.com forward slash live more. That's drinkag1.com forward slash live more. That's drinkag1.com forward slash live more. Great question. And they're these very primal patterns where fundamentally as human beings, we want to be loved and accepted. That's really what it comes down to. And so when we're in a relationship with someone who we're under the assumption has chosen us, you know, if it's a wife or a partner or a husband or whatever, or even family, you know, there's this sort of unwritten rule that, well, you know, you love me. And then if they display any behaviors that are in conflict with that, then we feel threatened again. Right? So we're putting a lot of the onus on people around us to provide the security

and the reassurance and the sense of self-worth for us but that's that is a very slippery slope i literally helped two clients yesterday and today this morning briefly who are struggling with the fact that a relationship they're in has fallen apart and their partner is now already with somebody else. And it's really triggering in them their feeling that they're not loved. But as I explained to them, that was there before you even met that person. That was your karma because you had your relationship with your mom or your dad where you felt that you weren't the chosen one. You weren't as special as a sibling or, you know, your dad was a little bit absent or your mom didn't quite give you enough attention. You know, every, it's such a

big topic because every human being has got their version of trauma. It's just most people don't really look. It's just become baked into their personality. You know, personality, meaning your personal reality, is now an extension of what you went through as a child, the trials and tribulations, the hurts and the failures and the disappointments sort of get baked into who you think you are so that now when you're an adult and you're in a relationship, if there's anything that has any sort of semblance of what you went through as a child where you felt dismissed, you felt unwanted, you felt you did something wrong, you felt like you weren't valuable or

special, wherever you feel your partner do the same, boom, straight comes up that hurt from your childhood. That's the power of relationship, really, as far as I'm concerned, is to reveal those things within us that are yet to be reconciled. That's the beauty. Now, of course, most people don't look at it that way. So they just fight and they throw spatulas and frying pans and, you know, talk to my lawyer and, you know, use the kids as bargaining tools or whatever it is. you know, use the kids as bargaining tools or whatever it is. I mean, it's pretty ugly. But yes, relationships are beautiful. And I'm all about companionship and love and having fun and intimacy and meeting people and traveling the world. But really, as far as I'm concerned, relationships are the conduit for our own spiritual evolution to reconcile where we're

still trapped based on our past traumas. And those relationships could be relationships with anyone, not just our partner, our friends, the person at the shop, your boss, your work colleague, I guess. And what I'm hearing and something I strongly believe is that in many ways, the people around us can be our therapists if we look at them in that way. I'm not saying it's the same as going to see a therapist. I understand that there's a different skill set there. But in some ways, you can look at it, look, I'm being presented on a daily basis, on a weekly basis, areas that I'm not okay with.

And if I look at it, if I choose to sort of come into my power and not make myself a victim, I can actually start to work on some of these things through the relationship. This way of thinking puts the individual in the driver's seat of their life there's nothing worse than feeling that you are a victim to circumstance that if the train came on time i'd be happier if my wife behaved in a certain way i'd be happier if my mom didn't do that i'd be happier if a b c d you know go to go to z and then start again it's it you're a prisoner aren't you it's in that story that i choose to tell myself that i get my power and that i get my freedom right yeah when you realize hang on a minute i'm the one generating my own experience of life like i'm literally

creating how i feel that is empowering and i'm not a victim of circumstance. I don't need my mom. I don't need my mother-in-law. I don't need my boss. I don't need my spouse. I don't need my children to act in a certain way for me to be okay. That's the fundamental lie that humans are telling themselves is that I can only be okay when everything is in accordance to my subjective view. Like if you really break that down, it's completely nonsensical. First of all, it's completely audacious. I didn't get the memo that Rangan's in charge of the universe and how everybody should be. It's preposterous. And if you are, then I didn't get the email that told me. And if that's the case, then let me know how I'm

supposed to behave for you. It's comical to's just, it's comical to realize, wow. And again, there's compassion, right? It's not like you, oh, you idiot. You've always been responsible for your life. It's like, no, it's okay. Wake up and realize, oh yeah. Why do I have to get so upset? Because, you know, my mother-in-law left the milk

on the different like, you know, shelf in the fridge that I don't like it there. It's like, really? Is that really upsetting me? Or is it a deeper sense of feeling not respected or not seen, which reminds me of when I was a child and I never got that sort of acknowledgement from my dad. And it's really the same energy that's just manifesting now as a 44-year-old and through my mother-in-law not putting the milk in the right position. But that that's empowering to go wow that that's so childish because really when you break it down without judgment it's always childish when people get upset it's it's like an adult

tantrum that people have you know they sulk you know they just use different language they'll curse but really it's like you're having a tantrum. You know, you're assaulting. Peter, I've been on a, I guess you would call it a self-growth journey for a number of years now. For me, I think it really started when my dad died just over eight years ago now. Okay. just over eight years ago now okay and i feel that certainly my experience has been that it's multiple stages on that journey um it's an evolution and i just feel these days mates so much happier so much calmer um i i i kind of just don't feel this tension that I think has always driven me in the past. I'm just much more, I think I'm able to be in the present much more than I used to be. I'm very

accepting of the way life is and not trying to wish it was another way. And occasionally if I do, I'll catch it now early. I'll be like, oh, okay, here we go. You're trying to wish it was another way and occasionally if I do I'll catch it now early I'll be like oh okay here we go you're trying you're trying to play the old record I thought I'd got rid of that record but it's kind of yeah this situation is me wanting to play that record so I yeah I feel you know we've had three conversations right this is the I mean I know we've been out and had dinner and hung out as well, but we've had three conversations on the podcast and it's always be a risky thing to ask, but, um, you know, I don't know what would you having had three sort of pretty deep and lengthy conversations with me?

Um, what is, what is your reading off me? You know, is it possible to make a reading of me from these conversations? I don't want to put you on your spot if you don't feel you've got enough information, but yeah, I'm intrigued as to what you might say about some of my traits. Yeah, for sure. I'm always happy to share. I mean, it's typically when somebody's sharing something they're dealing with. So you're sort of coming in from a different angle, which is where you're saying that you're actually not dealing with too much, right? Like when I'm helping people, it's invariably because they're struggling with something, right? But again, I've known you for a while and you gave me a few tells

more so in our first podcast. If you remember, you're talking about some of your friends and I sort of broke down some of your language and it was just your way of speaking that reinforced what I'd want to point out for you today, which is the only thing I feel in you is that you're a little bit overly self-conscious. Now, what that means is when someone's self-conscious, they're aware of themselves. self-conscious, they're aware of themselves. Now, the only reason somebody would have to do that is that they have some underlying, it can be subtle, it can be really severe, but there's mild concern about the way that they are or aren't going to be accepted by their environment. So the fact that I know, you know, with your heritage, you know, your ethnicity, perhaps, you know, I've worked with a lot of people who were perhaps of a different

religion or a different skin tone, and they were in an environment, a community, a school, you know, perhaps like one of my friends from South America, he went to an all white Jewish school. And so he was, quote, unquote, he stood out like a sore thumb. And for that reason, he was bullied. And it made him feel very conscious of his heritage. So the energy of self-consciousness is where you in your programming, again, just from my read, will have had moments where you were very aware of yourself and how others perceived you, right? And potentially, usually in a position where you might have been made fun of or bullied or stood out or, you know, the opposite, not belong, didn't fit in. And so when that's part of somebody's history, the brain tends to become a little bit too active and too sensitive, what I

call hypervigilant. So you're a smart guy, you're well educated, you're intelligent, but I feel you're using those resources a little bit too much in regards to making sure that, you know, you're not rocking the boat. Am I okay here? Did I say anything to offend anybody? Do you like me? That realm, which when you tap into it, maybe even as I'm saying it, you'll say whether it resonates or not, it can be draining to the system. Because what you're actually saying is, I don't accept me. I'm sort of hoping you do so that I can feel relaxed. But that's not a powerful place to be. That's still the mild victim of circumstance where you're basically overly self-aware. And so you're attending to your safety in an environment. It

might not feel like safety. You know, you're not going to be stabbed or anything, but that's how it occurs at the primal level is like, oh, you know, as human beings, we want to belong. And wherever in your history, you've had a sense of perhaps not belonging. Now you become hyper sensitive to that. So now as an adult, even though consciously, you know, it doesn't make sense viscerally at a deep subconscious level, you're like, oh, you know, I hope I'm not saying anything to offend anyone. I hope I get accepted in this group. I hope they like me. And that energy is a disservice to you and to others because it makes a little bit of a block.

energetically between you and others because you're actually in a relationship with your own concern about what others think about you versus just being with others whether they like you or not so that's that's that's sort of what i think yeah well first of all i appreciate you going there and appreciate you um sharing your thoughts on that you know how to respond to that i think there's a lot of truth to that i can you know how to respond to that i think there's a lot of truth to that i can you know as you were saying it i definitely felt it uh i i definitely with my rational brain know that that has been a pattern uh my rational brain feels that it's a lot better than it used to be like sure significantly better. Like if it was a hundred percent before in my rational brain, again, I'm using the word rational brain very carefully because I think we

can overthink things sometimes. I feel I overthink things. I certainly have that tendency. I kind of feel it's about 10% now if it was a hundred percent, but it's very hard for us to see things ourselves, right? Sometimes it takes somebody else to actually shine a light on an area. And there's something about what you said. Yeah, I felt it in my body, right? So that's a pretty good sign that, hey, there's something there. And I want to thank you for that because it's a gift, isn't it? It's a gift to me. want to thank you for that because it's in it's a gift isn't it's a gift to me yeah hey wrong look maybe maybe sort of sit with that thought later you know will you feel into that because i guess i thought i i'm sort of close to pretty much being over that but you're feeling that it's it's still there and i guess as you say it i think i do too mate if i'm honest yeah which i really appreciate

you know like because because the irony of whatever our constraint is, it's the last thing we want to reveal. So here you are, we're on a podcast, hopefully hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of people one day will get to see this. And so you asked me to contribute, but you're putting yourself in the hot seat a little bit. So first of all, I acknowledge your vulnerability. But secondly, I really acknowledge the fact that you can acknowledge what I said, you know, because it's like, yeah, yeah, that really kind of hit home. Like I'm a bit self-conscious, like I'm worried what people think about me. First of all, if you were to say that there's not one person on the planet who couldn't resonate

with that. They're like, well, yeah, of course he does. He's human. I have that, you know, it's like everyone can go, oh yes, I feel same. And it's okay. That's the beautiful thing is that you're a sensitive, caring guy. It's actually kind of a form of acknowledgement, really, is that you're that concerned about what people think about you. That's a nice trait. I'm just inviting you to recognize you don't have to be. Just you're a good guy like because I was that that really really consumed me and defined me for many years until I realized you know what not everyone's going to love me it's okay I know I'm a good guy I'm doing the best I can I'm not perfect my intentions are pure I want to help people and if they've got some you know issue

with me because I remind them of someone and maybe a guy who, you know, looked like their wife's ex-boyfriend, and that's a trigger. I don't freaking know why they're upset. You know what I mean? But I'm going to let them be me and just know that I'm doing the best I can. And I think there's just a bit of wiggle room there for you, or maybe a lot of wiggle room for you to go, you know right yeah he's a good guy you know he's like he's doing podcasts he has amazing guests who he gives information to people he's got his radio show he's got a beautiful family like if you could be more self-accepting which really what this is about like i said earlier the journey is about releasing our own fears it's not about getting more fame or getting more people to like you it's like no if you have

a deep-seated fear that you're self-conscious of, like, oh, you know, and you'll probably remember after this podcast, certain times in your childhood, I would invite you to look where you did feel self-conscious because mom said something, dad said something, you were in trouble, you were picked on at school, whatever triggered you being, you know, I want to be a good boy, like, because I can imagine you being be a good boy, like, because I can imagine you being a very good boy, like, but you don't need to play that role anymore. You know, you're a good guy, you've established yourself. And it just, it allows your system just to relax a little bit more, let everybody have their opinion. That's okay. Of course, it's nicer if

people like us, I get it. But you know But I don't know what's going on in their day that they're in a shitty mood. But it just will give you more freedom, mate. So it's awesome that you can see it. I'm glad you felt it in your body. That tells me immediately that we're spot on. And now you get to have a bit more compassion for that part of you and go, it's okay. I can see that you develop the habit over time because of your childhood of wanting to make sure you didn't rock the boat, you didn't upset people, and that people fundamentally loved you. That's very human. No one's going to begrudge you that pattern. I just don't want you to live from it anymore because you can love that part of you just like you would love your child if they felt they were

not picked or they weren't liked. It's kind of adorable, right? Because it's a child mentality. You just don't have to live from it as a grown man. That's all. Yeah. I mean, as you sort of speak to that, you know, I've done a form of therapy called IFS, internal family systems, which I found incredibly helpful to process various incidents in my childhood. But as you were speaking there, you know, you mentioned ethnicity, you know, I, I know my brother and I were two of the only sort of non-white kids at our school growing up, you know, grew up in a very sort of middle-class sort of white suburban area in Cheshire. And I think we were the one or there was only two Indian families in town and we were one of them so you know there is that self-consciousness there but yeah you know there's something you said

peter that it's an it's it's a nice you didn't say nice quality it's an endearing quality it's uh but actually i think it depends where the energy comes from so i mentioned mentioned my dad died just over eight years ago. The reason I live in the Northwest of England, where I grew up is because I moved back from Edinburgh, where I was at med school and working to help my mom and my brother look after dad. He had to retire. He had with ill health, he had lupus. He was on dialysis for 15 years and you know it was a very very intense and stressful time now yeah i think back to that time and and i i i think how did i do what i did and what i mean by that is i would kill myself with caring. Now, I was there seven days a week. I was working as a doctor. I'd get up at five. I've shared this before, but I would get up really early. I'd go and shower my

dad, get him ready. I'd go to work. I'd sometimes go at lunchtime if he was in hospital. Whatever it needed for 15 years, seven days a week, 365 days a year, I would do, right? Didn't matter what was going on in my life. That was my top priority. And I remember in the days after dad died, some of my dad's friends would say to me, you know, Ranga, we're just so impressed with you. We've never seen anyone do or look after someone like that before. And that made me feel good on a level. I thought, yeah, yeah. Because I had built up, mate, this identity

that that's who Rangan Chastiy is. He looks after people. He cares for people. And what's really interesting is my mum, unfortunately, her health has been deteriorating recently. Her mobility has gone down. My brother and I are around most days. I'm there helping him with breakfast most

mornings um and there's a couple of things there is I I can feel the energy behind me caring for mom very different yeah it's with dad like it's no longer my identity I I love my mom I'll do everything that I can to help her yeah but I'm not going to kill myself at the same time. I can see, I can put boundaries up in a way that I was incapable of doing eight or nine years ago. And I, for me, I'm now starting to think about, actually, I can now see a time when mum won't be around, which is something I've sort of come to terms with in the last few months. And I'm actually, a lot of time, I'm okay with it. Just to be clear, it doesn't mean I don't love my mum. It doesn't mean I hope she's, but that energy is

different now and it feels good. It feels like it doesn't take every sinew, every sort of ounce of energy away from me. I feel like I've still got energy for me and my family, but I can also care for my mum. Does that make sense? A hundred percent. It's why the FAA has the ruling that when you get on any airplane, and many people have heard this before, and the attendant or whatever says the oxygen masks come down, you put yours on first, even before your own child. Now that's a beautiful metaphor for the fact that if you don't take care of you, you have no use to anyone anyway. Right? So I would assert that with your dad, you were still trapped in the idea that it was incumbent upon you. It was like, it occurred to you as a have to, I must, I need to. Yes, of course you care. Yeah. But now with your your mom it's a choice it doesn't doesn't mitigate or doesn't in

any way minimize the amount of love that you have for her but she's on her own karma we become less attached to form my mom died when i was seven of cancer my dad went to work when i was 17 never came back right he died on the the ferry then zee. And for sure, it impacted my life, but it really taught me the power of being able to let go of form, right? Form, anything in the manifest world. And form comes and goes all the time. Even in the course of this conversation, we both literally lost millions of cells. Anyone listening, they'd lost millions of cells. They're dying all the time. And we're not like holding on for dear life, you know, but when it comes to these archetypes, especially with mom or dad or

a partner or a child, like we become so attached and that's human. But it again, leaves us very vulnerable versus, you know, where we combine with the essence of something. I feel so grateful that I had a father, even only he was there for 17 years, because the essence of our connection was so beautiful, even though the form, the time we physically had together was quite short. Right. So I invite people to really look at the quality of your life and your relationships and the connections versus the quantity or the attachment to the external trappings of the form of something. So I love the fact that you can even see in your own behavioral adaptation that before the little boy is sort of, it's how it defines you. It's no surprise you're a doctor, right? Like there's this part of you that has been programmed somewhat through adaptation to be the care provider, like the wounded healer, right? Like sort of that's where you find your value, right?

So you, what would it be like for you to be the doctor or a doctor? And certainly in your position, because it's got exacerbated through some sort of notoriety with TV or book or podcast. So it's sort of almost like it feels to you like, oh, wow, that's my worth. And so anyway, you get to express that worth, we're always going to be somewhat pulled by our own sense of self value to exacerbate that because that's what makes us feel good. But what if you weren't a doctor? Could you tap into your own worth just because you're a human being and because you care could that be enough right and it's not that you don't have the attributes and the skills and

the wherewithal to help people but it doesn't have that same edge of like oh i have to anymore you know and that's so liberating yeah it really is mate and and it's it's these these identities we construct around ourselves that we live within. The identity I had was that I'm a carer. It doesn't matter night or day, seven days a week, I am there. Nothing gets past me. I'm there. And I'm going to see that and the world around me are going to see that. And when you let go of that label and you stop living within those constraints, it is freeing. And mate, I've gone through a process of the last few years of just getting rid of really feeling into what are these labels. And I no longer,

I don't define myself as a doctor. I no longer even define myself as a father. I'm proud to be a father. It's a role that I take very seriously. But I think the problem is when you define yourselves by these kind of labels, again, you're putting yourself in a box. Part of you then starts to live in accordance with what you think society thinks that label should be, which is problematic in itself. What happens if you lose that label? As you say, what happens if I got fired from my job? What happens if I got ill and I couldn't work? What happens as a parent when your kids leave the house when they're 18? If that's your whole identity, it becomes really problematic. I wonder if you could speak a little bit to identity and how problematic it can be if we select the wrong identity or actually choose any identity really

but i also want to make sure we touch on you know we mentioned the body you mentioned emotions uh stress in the body and disease. I think it's something that doesn't get spoken about enough. It's not something that we as doctors really get any training in at all. This is in the sort of Western medical model. I know you've trained in Ayurvedic medicine. So I wonder if you could speak to some of those issues, please. Before we get back to this week's episode i just wanted to let you know that i am doing my very first national uk theater tour i am planning a really special evening where i share how you can

break free from the habits that are holding you back and make meaningful changes in your life that truly last it is called the thrive. Be the architect of your health and happiness. So many people tell me that health feels really complicated, but it really doesn't need to be. In my live event, I'm going to simplify health. And together, we're going to learn the skill of happiness, the secrets to optimal health, how to break free from the habits that are holding you back in your life, and I'm going to teach you how to make changes that actually last. Sound good? All you have to do is go to drchatterjee.com forward slash tour and I can't wait to see you there. This episode is also brought to you by the Three Question Journal, the journal that I designed

and created in partnership with Intelligent Change. Now, journaling is something that I've been recommending to my patients for years. It can help improve sleep, lead to better decision making, and reduce symptoms of anxiety and depression. It's also been shown to decrease emotional stress, make it easier to turn new behaviours into long-term habits, and improve our relationships. There are, of course, many different ways to journal, and as with most things, it's important that you find the method that works best for you. One method that you may want to consider is the one that I outline in the three question journal.

In it, you will find a really simple and structured way of answering the three most impactful questions I believe that we can all ask ourselves every morning and every evening. Answering these questions will take you less than five minutes, but the practice of answering them regularly will be transformative. Since the journal was published in January, I have received hundreds of messages from people telling me how much it has helped them and how much more in control of their lives they now feel. Now, if you already have a journal or you don't actually want to buy a journal, that is completely fine. I go through in detail all of the questions within the three-question journal completely free on episode 413 of this podcast. But if you are keen

to check it out, all you have to do is go to drchatterjee.com forward slash journal or click on the link in your podcast app. Yeah, for sure. I mean, identity, you know, we could call it persona, ego, they're all sort of interchangeable. So it's really, it's where we, you know, we've become collapsed with the idea of who we are. Like, you know, it's a sensitive subject, but whatever, I don't mind talking about stuff. So I'm here to break molds, right? So if someone says I'm Christian,

you know, and there's millions of Christians around the world, to me, that's a completely inaccurate statement. It's not bad. It's not wrong. It's just inaccurate. No one on the planet is Christian. Somebody may subscribe to the tenets of Christianity, but who they are as a divine being, that baby that they were at one point, didn't even know its own name or its nationality. It certainly wasn't associated with any particular religion. This is an addendum. This is something that got added after the fact. So if you look at even just religion and how it's been, you know, arguably one of the biggest, you know, causes of bloodshed around the world,

it's only because somebody believes they're something and then somebody believes they're something and there's this disagreement and then, well, let's fight. So listen, I pull from tenets of all sorts of religion. I think, you know, I talk about the consciousness of Christ and unconditional love. I talk about the freedom of Buddha and that Buddha is within. You know, I can reference a lot of stuff from Hinduism with Krishna and Shiva. You know, you can pull from all of these things. But to your point about labels, as soon as we basically pigeonhole ourselves and say, I am something. You know, and so you nailed your foot to the floor. So identity becomes very, it's very delicate because people are very attached to their beliefs.

But without knowing that their attachment to their beliefs is also what becomes the actual impediment to them usually creating the life they want. So to you, you you know what we were just talking about if the belief is that who you are fundamentally doesn't doesn't you're not you don't fit in and you're not loved because you're of a different ethnicity you're at this school you it's only you and your brother and mother and their indian family that are really of the the anomaly to the norm then you're going to be self-conscious. You have to be. So that would create an identity where now you're like, oh, I don't fit in, which exacerbates the feeling of separation, which is really what creates all suffering. We don't recognize that we're part of the whole. We're all actually

interconnected, right? That's a much more spiritual conversation. There is no actual separation. I mean, even in quantum physics, right? We've got entanglement theory, we've got the unified field, it points to the fact that everything is interconnected. So psychologically, when you get that, that's where I live from. It's like, everybody loves me, and I love everybody. Why wouldn't I if we're all one, versus in a relationship to myself, relative to others, now I'm separate, then I got to do whatever I have to as in a separate identity to feel that I have value that I fit in that I'm like that, you got to do whatever I have to as a separate identity to feel that I have value, that I fit in, that I'm liked. As long as you're looking through the isolation point of view, the illusion of separation, you have no choice but to try and adapt and manipulate

yourself depending on the environment. You might go to your friends and you feel like, oh, somewhat relaxed because I'm accepted here. But then you go on a job interview and now your value systems are being challenged as an identity because you're like, are they going to pick me? Are they going to pick me? Am I going to get the job? And now you're self-conscious. And then you might go to a dinner party and you don't know anyone and you feel like, oh, I don't have the same, I don't go hunting with these people. I don't know anything about hunting or I don't play lacrosse. Like, will they like me? You know, so all of these systems get challenged because we think we're independent. That's the identity.

So it can be very deleterious to our psychological, our mental and our physical health to go to your second part of your question, which is where I talk about the term dis-ease a lot, you know, as the precursor to disease that manifests physiologically. When psychologically we're in a state of dis-ease, the absence of ease, then the endocrine system is going to be dumping the cortisol, the norepinephrine, the adrenalins into our body, which if that's consistent over time, then our body can't rejuvenate itself, things are going to become compromised. And that's where, you know, it might take a couple of decades, but you're going to get sick. So identity, it's so ironic, because people fight for their identity. But the identity itself

becomes the obstacle to what they want, which is really union, you look at, look at relationships romantically, here's the here's the irony, you go on your first date and you're really excited, male or female, and you're meeting male or female, who cares what you're into. But, you know, you're going to do whatever you can to present your greatest ambassador, right? Like, so, you know, you put on the shirt that you haven't worn ever, or you even went shopping and got some new shoes, which are really uncomfortable, but they look good. You know, you've actually, you know, got no shaved for the first time, whether you're male or female,

wherever you're shaving, you know, for a couple of weeks, you've put on your best cologne, which is the terrible move. But anyway, you know, and so you've got this sense of like, oh, I'm doing the best I can. And it goes well to the point that you have a second date. And maybe, you know, if you gave 90 out of 100 have a second date. And maybe, you know, if you gave 90 out of 100 of your best on the second day, you know, you come down to about 80, 85. And then the third day, you know, you started to feel much more comfortable with people. And you're down to a 60% of your best. And, you know, maybe a year from now, you're married. And before you know it, you're like, you know, you're your worst average every day. And your partner's like, what the hell happened to you?

You know, it's like, that wasn't the person I met. Yeah, well, because you were just coming from fear. You know, that's your identity based in inadequacy, insecurity and scarcity. You had compensation patterns, behavioral adaptations to try and present yourself so that you become the chosen one, that you're accepted by society. As soon as you feel accepted, then you're accepted by society. As soon as you feel accepted, then you go straight back into your inadequacies, the self-fulfilling prophecy of the fact that no one gives a shit, who cares, what the fuck, I'm power, and everything starts

to become, you know, back to this like very mediocre average. So identity has, it's got its plus sides, because you try a little bit, but it's also becomes the very precursor to all of the deleterious effects in our life, including the worst, you know, like addictions and self-sabotage and suicides and things are very real that really affect people. It's all because of identity. So yeah, it's a big issue. I'm basically, my work is dissolving identities as i tell people i'm

i'm not here to help the person i'm here to get rid of the person is it possible to have an identity that's helpful so you mentioned religion so sometimes of course people like the identity of a religion because it helps them abide by or follow a certain set of principles that helps them you know have better relationships and feel calm so yeah i guess yeah is there a bit of nuance there i mean you your identity to many of us is the mind architect right so is that identity could you can you envisage a scenario in your life where actually having that identity is limiting what if someone's got a problem with their body that you help with but you're the mind architect you're not the body architect do you know what i mean i'm sort of yeah how would you

think about that well this seems to be a good platform to announce that i'm now the body architect or the mind body architect the human architect i Or the mind-body architect, the human architect. I'm the life architect. No, no, it's a great point. And again, people don't know my inner workings, but for me, it's very clear that I know I'm not the mind architect. I know I'm not Peter Crone. These are all things that are, they're sort of adorned on my identity. I know for myself, without sounding too poetic, that I'm just a space of pure love and possibility. That's how I identify with myself. And then how that manifests, you know, my background was as a trainer and I'm an Ayurvedic practitioner so that I can pull from

those skill sets. But for someone to say that they're a lawyer or they're a doctor or they're an insurance agent, you know, or they're a professional athlete. All of these monikers that we have, they're not wrong, but they're inaccurate to the essence of who we are. So for me, you know, I feel very comfortable using labels without being attached to them. It doesn't, it's like, oh, I'm the mind architect. It's like, no, I couldn't care less. Call me whatever you want. Like, I don't, it doesn't really bother me.

I'm much more interested in the essence of what people get from the energy of who I am and the words that I share that help them to tap into their equivalent form of freedom that I feel that I embody, which is why people find my work inspiring. They might not know too much about me as a persona. They might not know my parents died. They don't know if I'm married. I have children. They probably couldn't care less. They're much more interested in like, wow, I feel better listening to this guy. So really, what is that? Is it because I'm a mind architect or because I'm representing the expression of a form of energy that is appealing to them? You know, the expression namaste, the divine in me recognizes the divine in you is the translation, right? So it's really, I'm speaking from a place that I assert

is somebody's essence, and it's appealing to the essence in them, whether you call that freedom or love or self-worth. So that identity that I use, yes, can people have an identity that's beneficial? Of course, but to what end? You know, you could argue that your identity of being a doctor, what end? You know, you could argue that your identity of being a doctor 365 a year, 24 seven with my dad, like you could argue that that identity of like, I will not be stopped. I'm a care provider. You can say that's beneficial. You know, you probably helped your dad for a lot, you know. But my question is, to what expense? You know, in real estate, they have that term carrying costs. You know, if a house is not being sold, it's got carrying costs, right? You have to keep the lights on, you keep it clean, you're paying your mortgage, whatever.

And so an identity always has carrying costs. And so it's just the degree to what are those costs. Now, again, to the extremes of an identity, it's founded in a feeling of inadequacy where I'm not loved, I'm not wanted, I'm a failure because of their childhood that led them to finding relief in substance. And it became an addiction that is now draining their bank accounts. It's ruined their marriage. They don't see their children anymore. They're living on the street.

That's a lot of cost to that identity, right? Conversely, somebody who feels that they're not good enough and they became a perfectionist and they go to the gym six times a week because they're very conscious of their appearance and they want to make sure they have the perfect body and they really work hard to make sure that their house looks perfect. You could say that that looks like it's a much better expression of someone's identity, but I would assert that person has still got a lot of carrying, because they're working so hard to really try and fundamentally get people to like them and accept them. So even on the surface, you know, the homeless person who's a drug addict, the person has this picture perfect life, they're kind of ironically being driven internally by the same sense of energy and inadequacy, they just manifest it in different ways. So identity, to me, fundamentally does have to be destructed at some point, or at least seen for what it is,

which is a facade and a mask, so that we can reveal what's beneath that, which is the essence of who we all are. And from that place, then I feel you actually live a life that would be, you know, sort of referenced or symbolic of somebody who's in harmony with everything. So that is beneficial to everyone. It's just, you're no longer carrying any costs because you're just in harmony with your true nature. And I'd like to think that that's where I live from, that there is the absence of friction. There is the absence of resistance. There is the absence of trying to impress people. You know, that to me is true freedom. I'm no longer trying to prove myself to anybody and I don't have anything to hide. Does that mean I'm perfect? No, but I found peace with that. Does it mean that everything in my

history was immaculate? at all parents died i drove i drove my dad's car when i was 15 i knocked down the garden wall like i've done my stupid things i got drunk i've done you know i've done all the things that humans do but i found peace with myself and so then there's no longer this external identity effort of like hoping that you know i look good enough that you like me me. That to me is exhausting and why people do have these sort of self-medicated substances they rely on, which, as I said, can over time really, to your question, impact people's physical health. And to me, that's why I feel my work has helped so many people who have had sicknesses and diseases, some of which have

been chronic, because as soon as they let go of the internal mechanism that creates that dis-ease and they find peace then their external physiology eventually is given the permission to actually heal itself and and miracles literally do happen yeah that term carrying cost is so, so apt. And, you know, an example in my life that speaks to that is, you know, still talking about my dad's, I used to have debilitating chronic back pain for many years in my 20s, I had to give up sports, all kinds of things, take time off work. And, you know, I was looking for a physical solution. And after trying lots and lots of different things, I found this incredible guy called Gary Ward, who, you know, looks at the whole body. And just he looks at everything, frankly, but I don't want to do Gary a disservice.

But he really helped me by saying by seeing how my right foot wasn't actually working as optimally as it could do. And he gave me a few exercises to get that really working and instantaneously, I don't know, 70 to 80% of my back pain just went to the point where I could get back to doing all the things that I wanted to do. But there was so many occasional tension that would be there. But it wasn't a problem. I was able to do the things in life that I wanted to do. So as a human being, I just kept going on and thought, I'll just keep doing these exercises. And this is good compared to how things were. At my dad's funeral, mate, and this really speaks to what you were just saying and why I'm so passionate of the role that emotions play

in disease and our health and our wellbeing and our whole body and our frame, I can remember so clearly that my dad had a cremation after the service. I remember seeing the coffin going into the kind of, I don't know what it's called, like the oven. You could see the heat in that. And I could see my dad's body going in. And I remember, mate, I could feel as that was going in, this tension in my right back, it just went. Like, I still remember it. It just vanished. And I totally got it.

I was like, oh my God, I get it. I've been carrying this tension, this responsibility of being there for the entire family making sure everyone's all right looking after the family looking after my dad's yeah and in that moment where i thought i really had that realization that actually dad's not here anymore dad's body is about to be burnt into ashes yeah my body responded instantaneously mate beautiful really beautiful and no surprise it's your right side because that's the masculine right so the paternal the father but the release that you got because it's like especially with the back which represents you know when we say we

have a spine we're a stand for something like it's where there's this feeling of commitment it's often associated with finances or security. Most of the security comes from the masculine. And so you were bearing the weight. When you bear weight, think about doing a squat with a lot of weight. You know, most people's backs get thrown out. So you were bearing the weight of the masculine role that was crumbling. And so you had too much stress. And once that was seen and accepted and reconciled,

you were able to have the release. So to me in my work, and this again, like I'm not a doctor, but boy, do I change people's physiology and their diseases by addressing what's the internal, what is the root cause energetically, energetically, you know, this is what I call frequency medicine, people who've had chronic issues for like decades and they don't know why and they've tried everything because of course no one wants to feel lousy but until such time you're dressed like the center ring of those ripples on a pond you've got the fifth sixth ring is the symptom and the issue but until you change at the core then your body can't actually release and do what it does naturally, which is allow the flow of vitality to be there effortlessly. Like I just did a workshop on health. And I was talking about

like our nature is vitality. That's our nature. But because we deviate away from it, then we create disease. And once you understand that, and then you look at, okay, well, what was the root cause of my dis-ease? Why I break that word down, the absence of ease in my system, energetically, emotionally, and psychologically, that then manifests in my physiology as a sickness. But then the sick care system, which is the most barbaric system out there, no offense to you, but, you know, that is like trying to fix things externally and just sell people pills. You know, most doctors, obviously there's many that are good, but they're really, you know, they're drug pushers. They're not like trying to get people well. They're trying to manage symptoms, which has its time and place for sure.

I get it. But if you don't address what's going on at the deepest energetic emotional level, then at best, you're just managing a sickness. Yeah. And that was, you know, what, 2013, March. So we're, you know, almost eight and a half years. And as a human being, but as a doctor in particular, I've always been fascinated with different fields. I was thinking about you before this conversation and thinking about your career and my career. And one thing I really resonated with is that you've studied lots of different things at university, your master's degree, your yoga, Pilates, Ayurveda. And I really think that gives a real flavor, a real sense of everything that's out there.

So you can bring in what you need to for the individual in front of you. And I kind of feel that's the approach I've always taken in medicine. I remember at med school, I was learning from PTs and I was reading stuff, you know, on nutrition and then now psychology and emotions and health. And we talked about the sick care system, But the truth is our training as Western doctors is so limited. The vast majority of our training is diagnose a symptom. These are your treatment options. 95% of those treatment options are pharmaceutical drugs. Therefore, that is the model. So when you go and see your doctor, unless they are open to learning more, studying more, expanding their view,

you are going to get a very limited response. And this is why I think many people, not everyone, and I know there are some great doctors out there who are much more open-minded and are trying all kinds of different approaches, non-harmful approaches to help their patients get better. 100% me. And for sure, I come with compassion. Some of my friends are functional doctors or even regular GPs, and they're just beautiful people. And I really do want to commend those who choose. It's not an easy path, right? You go through medical school five, seven years, you do your internships or whatever. there's a lot of stuff that goes into including the cost, especially here in the States of going to become a doctor or a nurse. And I think it is always with the best of intentions. The issue is the system, right? Like

if we were to break it down in very simple terms, what do you learn as a doctor, you've got to learn the structure, right? We call that anatomy, genetics, you know, you learn the function, we call that physiology or biology, then you learn the path, right? We call that anatomy, genetics. You know, you learn the function. We call that physiology or biology. Then you learn the pathology, like the diseases that you're going to face. And then what's the treatment? Pharmacology, and then maybe intervention, which is surgery. So, you know, again, without kind of pointing to the 300-pound gorilla in the room, which is Big Pharma, which wants to control everything, they're the ones giving the money to the universities. There's the one paying the lobbyists. You know, the system itself is just corrupt. I mean, it's just call it what it is. And there's good people trying to help. But like, I don't know

how many hours in like the seven years of study, like two or three on nutrition, you know, and Ayurveda, we know everything stems from the gut. That's our view. It's like, we have an expression with good digestion, medicine is unnecessary. With bad digestion, medicine doesn't work. So it's all around digestion. And for me, psychological digestion, to go back to the beginning of our conversation, if you can't process something that you're visually in front of, you're unable to digest it. That's like emotional indigestion. You're not able to handle it. And so that's where people get sick, dis-ease, physical disease. And we see that in the world right now. It's really an asinine system that we have. And if I was in a car accident, to your point, there's some things

that this Western system are phenomenal at. They would put me back together, save my life. Amazing. phenomenal act. They would put me back together, save my life. Amazing. But I think of a species, if we're going to move forward, we have to call the spade a spade, whatever expression you want to use. It is what it is. Emergency, triage, acute intervention, Western medicine, awesome. But as it relates to everyday wellness and health, then we want the Chinese medicines, as it relates to everyday wellness and health, then we want the Chinese medicines, the Ayurvedas, the functional doctors, the naturopaths, the osteopaths. There's a whole world that allows people to tap into health and wellness. We can bring the best of everything is what I appeal to. First of all, agree about all the benefits of Western medicine. Hey, we've spoken a lot about my dad's day. My dad got 15 years extra of life on a dialysis machine. I am so grateful. If a dialysis machine did not exist, dad's kidneys weren't

working. That's him gone, right? That was an artificial kind of kidney keeping him alive. So he got to experience all kinds of things and meet my kids and all kinds of stuff. Do you know what I mean? So it's not about throwing it all out. It's about recognizing what it's good at and what it's not good at. I'm an optimist. I think things are changing. With a colleague of mine, Dr. A. N. Panja, we created something called Prescribing Lifestyle Medicine, this used to run in person, this course that the Royal College of GPs in London have fully accredited. And we've either trained over a thousand, maybe a couple of thousand healthcare professionals already. And it's 95% I'm saying

it's significantly influencing the way that they practice. We've now put it online, literally, I think a week or two ago, we're now, you know, taking it out there. So I kind of, I'm an optimist, right? So I think there are problems, but I don't want to just keep

talking about the problems. I want to try and at least do something that contributes to a solution. Peter, I want to be respectful of your time, but there's two big topics we didn't get to. Just briefly, I just want to ask you, if past hurt informs future fear, how do we deal with that? I know you're running a lot of online courses now for people who want to access your work which is fantastic i know people who've got great benefit from that what is your view on things like therapy as a way of dealing with past trauma and then secondly um given that a lot of these patterns develop in our childhoods yeah for those of us that are parents yeah what can we do with

our children to reduce the likelihood of them developing these patterns that they then have to try and undo in their 40s 50s and 60s great you know past hurt informs future fear is one of my quotes that i came up with recognizing the pattern of where the brain, when we've had any kind of failures, disappointments or trauma, it's designed to predict and protect. So we are going to be looking out for the repetition of something that hurt us. It's just very simple physics, right? You go near a stove, you burn your hand, you're going to be that much more sort of self-aware when you're next near a stove because like, oh, that hurt last time. So does therapy help? It depends on the quality of the therapist. You know, I remember I did a retreat in Thailand many, many years ago, and a journalist

from the Daily Telegraph came out to work with me. They sent a few journalists just to do some stories. And he had a really pertinent last paragraph. He said, you know, when I got back from seeing Peter in Thailand, I went to see my therapist and I told him I didn't need him anymore. I realized that he'd helped me to identify my fears, but I realized that constantly just talking about my fears didn't make them go away right so therapy again there's some amazing therapists out there but there's also some awful ones who just are doing a job and they're prescribing you know diazepam's benzodiazepines and ssris and whatever set yeah and i guess that word therapy is so broad it can mean so many different things one of the one of the reasons i like ifs so much

is because it doesn't require you to go in and talk about it sort of goes back to that childhood experience and sort of reprograms it straight away in your mind but i could totally see how for many people your work would um in many for many people would just mean oh i get it now i can i i just got that realization so i can understand why some people wouldn't need a therapist after that or certainly that kind of therapist yeah so that's why again one of my catchphrases I say I don't solve problems I dissolve them right so you know therapist the doctor an expert a spiritual teacher like whoever you're going to see invariably with the best of intentions is trying to help you with your problems but thereby they're sort of reinforcing

the fact that you've got some in my world no, no one has a problem. No one has a problem in my world. Now that to most people is like just jarring. It's like, wait, he doesn't know me. He doesn't know that I don't need to. I know that you have a resistance to a circumstance based on your conditioning. And like we said, your identity, if I can undo your identity, then all of a sudden you're free and you will actually attract and manifest an entirely different life that is absence of quote unquote problems. So yes, there's many forms of therapy. You could say massage therapy, you could say acupuncture is a therapy, right? You could say there's different modalities, but I do believe whoever you are as a human being,

you have to have an outlet. You have to have some access to conversational therapy of some kind, even if it's just a best friend, even if it's a lover, somebody who you can trust, who you can just share what you're going through in an arena that you're held and you're accepted in a way without judgment itself is a form of healing therapy. I think one of my greatest skills with people, yes, I have all of these tools where I can discern between, you know, where someone's lying or they're not, or they're coming from fear. But one of my greatest assets, I feel is that I just listen from a place of non judgment. And I just accept people for who they are. And most people have never had that energy. And so it's very liberating. So that's the first question. And then regarding parents, you know, we get a lot of that and I'll probably do a workshop on parenting soon but in order to how can I do this without like getting down the rabbit hole I think it's a great topic that warrants another conversation but the best way any parent can

inspire influence and impact to their children in a quote-unquote positive way that is in keeping with my work which is freedom and love and self-worth is to do the work yourself because children more than anything mimic who you are versus listening to what you say. And so if you want to inspire your children to become human adults that you would be proud of where they have powerful lives, then emulate, embody, and reflect, express the type of human being you would want them to be. If you're disciplining them and you're raising your voice

and you're screaming and you're making them wrong and you have arguments with your spouse, then that's what they're going to recognize is what a relationship looks like and what parenting looks like. So then they will invariably, from generation to generation, adopt those behavioral patterns of like,

well, I fight with my partner, but that's what I learned from my parents. So that's normal. But it doesn't feel good. It's just normalized. And so I help parents, I help athletes, I help businessmen, I help everyone in between to find that sense of freedom so that you can be the living embodiment of what you would wish to pass on, not just to your children, but to your loved ones, your siblings, people you care about. And even for me, I like to be a living embodiment of my work. I don't want to be the guy who's full of BS, you know, who's like, oh, he sounds great on podcasts, but people who know me behind the scenes, like I'm some sort of

jackass, you know, it's like, no, I want to live the way that I like preach. And I think so for a parent, whatever qualities you would love your children to embody, then, you know, express those so that they can mimic you because that's what children learn more than anything. And we're all doing the best we can. Like my quote, I say, we're masterpieces, but we're all works in progress. So a lot of compassion. You know, I'm a parent to millions. I don't have my own children. So, you know, I can't speak

entirely to the, you know, the trials and tribulations of being a parent and children will test your nerve. I get it. And if you get upset and pissed off at times, it's okay. But try and rectify yourself as quickly as you can understand children are, they're children, they're supposed to draw all over the walls, they're supposed to break shit. That's what they do. And the more you can have love and acceptance of them, stop making them wrong. That's one of the most I find over time, detrimental things that parents do to children is they make them wrong and bad, you know, and children don't know that three, they're five, they're eight, they're doing the best they can. So for a parent to make a human being a child wrong, or bad, it leaves such an impression

versus help them understand why what they did, perhaps is an ideal, or why it did upset you, but educate them versus disciplining them or judging them. I love that, Peter. I think it's a wonderful place to close off our third conversation. For people who want to follow you, do courses, how can they find you? Where's the best place? do courses uh you know how can they find you where's the best place and also when's the book coming out uh best place is uh instagram peter crone official and my website petercrone.com where they could find workshops and courses um and the book is coming along i really don't know you've done this more than me so the publishing time time, you know, dependent, I'd like to, I'm going to, my intention is to finish the book by around November, December of this year. So then

I don't know if that puts us around spring of next year. I just keep getting people who want to work with me, which is very flattering, but it pulls away from my uh writing time yeah it pulls away from writing for sure you kind of almost got a shot off for a little bit and yeah get in the zone but uh good luck with that mate and thank you thank you for making time your work is helping so many people around the world uh i value you for what you do for humanity i value you as a friend and i hope we get to get together soon in person. May, thank you so much for having me on and sharing me with your audience. And I really, as I said, at the sort of middle part, I hope people realize I'm, I'm doing this because I

care and I really want to make a difference. And so far, the feedback I've gotten is very humbling. And so it's only through people like yourself and your platforms and your audiences that I get to reach people. So I'm very grateful. So thank you. Really hope you enjoyed that conversation. As always, do think about one thing that you can take away from it and start applying in your own life. And if you want to find out more about Peter, you can go to his website, petercrohn.com

or follow him on Instagram at Peter Crohn Official. And if you want to find out more about Peter, you can go to his website, petercrohn.com, or follow him on Instagram at petercrohnofficial. As I mentioned in the intro, this was the last episode of the current season. I plan to be back right at the start of September, as per usual, with weekly Wednesday and Friday episodes. And I want to say a big thank you to all of you who take the time to listen each week and share these episodes with your friends and family. You know, I really don't say that for granted. I know that your time is precious. And my hope is that the conversations I share help you to reflect and make positive changes in your own life. Now, if you do enjoy my weekly podcast, I have a request to make of you over the summer.

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