Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - #238 How To Overcome Adversity with Tony Riddle

Episode Date: February 16, 2022

This episode is a LIVE recording of a conversation I had with Tony Riddle who was eight days into an epic journey. He was running the length of Great Britain, completely barefoot, covering 30 miles a day for 30 days. His aim? To show what human beings are biologically capable of, as well as to raise environmental awareness and funds. Even though the conversation was recorded back in 2019, it has as much relevance today as it did back then.   You might remember Tony from episode 71, What Makes Us Human. He’s also known as the natural lifestylist and one of his aims is to help people move back towards a more natural lifestyle by inspiring them to make small changes that can make a big difference.   Unfortunately, when we meet up to record this episode, in front of a small live audience at the Wild and Wild café in Congleton, acute injury meant that Tony was two days into an enforced break from his run. So, in this conversation, we talk about how he coped with that setback.   We also talk about the incredible power of being vulnerable, the idea of progress, not perfection, and Tony’s philosophy that everything in life is a process. He shares some simple – and free – tools that can help all of us cope with adversity: human contact (hugs from your loved ones), breathwork, meditation, mobility and cold-water therapy.   I ask Tony to take us through a simple breathing exercise, in real time (so you can join in, too). And we chat about the physiology of stress and how and when breathwork can help us.   In keeping with the theme of his run, we finish our chat on the topic of sustainability – the equal importance of individual and system change to protect our environment.   Tony is a really inspiring man who challenges the modern norms in society that are not in keeping with our evolution and biology. I hope you enjoy this conversation. Thanks to our sponsors: http://www.athleticgreens.com/livemore https://www.vivobarefoot.com/livemore https://www.calm.com/livemore   Order Dr Chatterjee's new book Happy Mind, Happy Life: UK version and US & Canada version   Show notes available at https://drchatterjee.com/238   Support the podcast: Members get ad-free episodes and exclusive content including my take on the topics most requested by the FBLM community https://drchatterjee.com/membership DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

The experience can be good or bad. It's still an experience. It's all one thing. But we always want the good and the happiness and everything that comes with that thing. But without the bad stuff, how do you appreciate the good stuff? Hi, my name is Rangan Chatterjee. Welcome to Feel Better, Live More. So this week's episode is slightly unusual. It is a live recording of a conversation I had with Mr. Tony Riddle, who at the time was eight days into an epic journey. He was running the length of Great Britain completely barefoot, covering 30 miles a day for 30 days. His aim was to show what human beings are biologically capable of, as well as to raise environmental awareness and funds. Now, even though the conversation was recorded back in 2019, I think it has as much relevance

today as it did back then. Now, some of you may remember Tony from episode 71 of this podcast when we had a brilliant conversation that I know inspired many of you to make some changes to your lifestyle. And he also goes by the name of the natural lifestylist. And one of his big aims is to help people move back towards a more natural lifestyle by inspiring them to make small changes that can make a big difference. Unfortunately, when we met up to record this episode in front of a small live audience at the Wild and Wild Cafe in Congleton, acute injury meant that Tony was two days into an enforced break from his run. So in this conversation, we talk about how he coped with that setback. We also talk about the incredible power of being vulnerable, the idea

of progress, not perfection, and Tony's philosophy that everything in life is a process. He shares some simple and free tools that can help us all cope with adversity in life better. Human contact, hugs from your loved ones, breathwork, meditation, mobility, and cold water therapy. And at the event, I asked Tony to take us all through a simple breathing exercise in real time. So you can join in, of course, if you wish to. We also chat about the physiology of stress, how and when breathwork can help us, and the importance of living in a sustainable way in harmony with nature and the planet. Now, Tony is a pretty inspiring guy. I think what I love about him the most is how willing he is to

challenge the modern norms in society and question how many of them are not in keeping with our evolution and biology. At its core, this is a conversation about trusting the process, being vulnerable, and learning to accept the inevitable challenges that we all face in our day-to-day life. I hope you enjoy listening. And now, my live conversation with Mr. Tony Riddham. Guys, look, this is a really special opportunity for me and Tony to get together. I actually am used to doing events normally in London. So to do it in the Northwest is absolutely fantastic. First of all, I want to say welcome

to the Wild and Wild Cafe. I'm going to try and keep this informal, although I am recording this on my podcast. So we've never really done live events in such an intimate setting before. So we'll see how this goes. But yeah, I don't know how much you know about me and Tony, but thank you. If you don't know anything about us thank you for trusting and coming here tonight to spend some time with us. Yes so look my podcast is about trying to empower people trying to inspire people to believe that they can become the architects of their own health and I think Tony is probably someone who really epitomizes that for me. If you're not familiar with Tony, I'm going to ask Tony to start off by just summarizing what he does. So Tony goes under the name, the natural lifestylist. So I wonder Tony, if you could briefly sort of explain to people here, what is a natural lifestylist?

I thought I knew until I started this run, but I, I am a rewilding coach, like a rewilding human coach, which means I look to people and places of the world, ways of living that are more in sync with our human biology. And I work with urbanites, basically, so people that live in urban settings and try and find ways of living that are more in sync for them with that human biology. So finding biologically normal ways of living in what can often be a biologically extreme environment, I would say. So looking at physical, social, spiritual needs

and trying to align them with nature, really. Discovering that our modern... We have this modern meal of different diseases, right? And I put them down to the suffering that we're occurring because of our habitat and our environment, but the habits within those habitats as well. So really my coaching experience has been how to change people's habits by offering small changes. And with those small changes, it can make a big impact in the way they're choosing to live. And I say choosing because really it ultimately does come down to the choice, really, of how we want to live. So I've been privy to some pretty amazing lifestyles.

I've mentioned it before, but thrown around by Private jet met a listers um sports personalities could be students could be pensioners whoever i work with it doesn't really matter if their fundamental physical social spiritual needs aren't met then they're humans in suffering um but the good news is the more and more nature i introduce to their lifestyle and their lives the happier they become um which again is part of this restyling nature and it started off as rewilding but most people didn't understand the term it's becoming more mainstream now more people are understanding about rewilding humans whereas before it was like oh we're going to introduce wolves to yellowstone park and create a trophic cascade or or reforestation or something we're not understanding how we can actually do this with a human being. Yeah, that's kind of the crux of it.

Yeah, for sure. But a lot of people out there who are not in tune, let's say, with living a natural lifestyle might perceive some of the things that you do as quite extreme or societally they're very extreme. You would call them biologically normal. Yeah, exactly. So for example, Tony doesn't have any chairs in his house nope but i find that super fascinating because a lot of the feedback i got from our first podcast is that although i won't go as far as tony goes i can go halfway i can uh you know maybe squat when i watch television i can maybe try and be in a squat for 30 minutes a day i can take my shoes off when i come in So I'm actually starting to connect with my feet and the grounds. So I think, you know, yes, some people may think

they're not ready to go as far as you're going. But, you know, you're inspiring them to actually take small steps, which I think is a great thing. But I think what you're currently doing at the moment is really what I want to delve into today. So Tony is trying to run across the entire length of the UK completely barefoot, not in barefoot shoes, but completely barefoot. And so Tony, I wonder if you could explain, you know, what was your drive to do this? When did the idea come about, you know, that, hey, I know what a fun thing to do in September, take my family on the road and actually try and run around the UK barefoot. It started off in a, I was in a ceremony. So it was in like a spiritual context of a ceremony. This pair of boots popped up in front of my eyes and it was a

pair of leather boots with a metal bar that ran across them. And those pair of boots were the boots that I was given as a baby. So I was born with a deformity in my feet. I was the longest baby on record in Reading Hospital, which meant I took on this amazing adaptation where I managed to curl my feet up underneath my armpits. I must have looked like a truss chicken or something when I came out. But it then meant that the first 12 weeks was spent going back each week to have plaster put onto my feet.

So I'd be in plaster cast for 12 weeks. My mom found it incredibly traumatic. So she used to be in tears every time. So that would have been kind of uploading, I guess, into that. And then I was put into these boots with a metal bar. Anyway, so that I guess was in the, that's in the roots of it. I think that's where it started in the ceremony. It was like, I've got to lose the shoes. That was kind of the first thing that come to my mind I'd already thought about running from Land's End to John O'Groats I didn't necessarily think about doing it barefoot I thought about just just running it you know and doing something and then within that lose the shoes that was the first thing that came up it's like I know I know what I'm going to do

I'm going to run from Land's End to John O'Groats and I'm going to do it barefoot and I'm going to throw the boots in the sea at the end that's what kind of came up for me and so that was the start of it and then it was like okay but you know the reaction I would say to people I'm going to run barefoot from Land's End to John O'Groats it always this oh my god like the reaction when I get when I say we don't have any furniture in the home or you know I do ice baths or I you know do meditation or breath work or things that can you know again they can be perceived as socially extreme it was that that window of opportunity for me to then say here's a platform and with that platform I can raise awareness for sustainability in the environment so there's kind of two-pronged attack really for me. It was like, right, okay, I have this thing, the physicality.

I'm going to deal with the trauma of that from birth. And yet at the same time, through the extreme exposure that I can give people, it's like, right, okay, we can interview sustainability experts along the way. And then raise funds and fundraise for six amazing charities and organizations. That's kind of within it. And then since then, I've done deeper work. And what I found is that, you know, it's not about the shoes at all. You know, I let the shoes go a long, long time ago, you know.

And really it's just come down to this. I think Lola, we woke up one morning. I was in a bit of a state, I think, on Wednesday morning, hobbling around and head in my hands sobbing and lola was like have you thought about um why you're doing this papa and i was like well yeah i mean the bigger picture is this that you know um hugo tag home we were we were i was interviewing from surfers against sewage and he said can you imagine that we were using like whale oil right from we were hunting whales and we were extracting stuff from the whale so we could use it right and that's that generation amnesia i was talking about in one of the previous podcasts again that we we have no

recognition of that i don't remember that but there'll be generations that do remember that and so for my kids it's going to be well look at look at this look at the state of things we're what it was what is this handover and what representation are we and who who are we how do we become better humans again i remember in my parents car we'd be driving along on holiday and they were smokers and they'd smoke with the windows up in the car and we'd be like in the car as kids right but that was where everyone did it it was like the norm you see but for me to look at my parents now i'm like what were you thinking and and for me it's you know for my kids to look at me in the future and i can say well actually you know i ran for land engine and the groats to raise awareness for sustainability in the

environment so the bigger picture i think is that, it's always about, for me, being the change and becoming a better human, I think, underneath it all. It sounds like this calling to go on such an amazing adventure, it feels as though it's come from a very deep place inside you. It doesn't feel as though, you know, just thought, oh, this would be quite a cool thing to do. It's definitely not superficial. It's going to look good on Instagram, for example. I don't get that sense from you at all that any part of it is about that it's about and as you just shared there's something really really deep about this and i guess watching your journey so far i wonder if you give us an update on where you are where

you should be because you've had quite a few challenges along the way and i think we should explore what those challenges are especially in the context that this is a spiritual journey on some way so I'd love to if you could explain to people what are what have those challenges been so far and then really I want to explore how you have dealt with those challenges because they're pretty they're pretty full-on yeah I think from the get-go I've always said well we i said in the previous interview that running for me isn't just a physical experience not cardiovascular exercise it's a physical social spiritual experience and through breath work and meditation and breathing while i'm out there making contact with the earth

i've reached like these heightened states been amazing like you can just what you can process when you're out there and i'm out there for 12 hours you know it's just like 12 hours of processing and and already i've cleared so much stuff and then i think it was on um what day was it maybe tuesday i think tuesday i i'd arrived at this but i was it was like three days in and i i said oh my god you know this is amazing it's like my mind and body had this conversation. And the conversation was, ah, this is what we're doing now. I get it. This is what we do every day.

This is what we're going to be doing. We just get up and we go and do this run. And so I remember that if I was being in the present, it would have just been accepting that. If something else came in, it was like, oh, I've got a blog about this. Trust the process. Respect the process, be patient whilst in the process. And when you understand it's all process, just be, right? But I wasn't just being, that was the point I was telling everyone about being, but I wasn't being in that process, I was doing something else. So it meant, I feel that I just got ahead of myself in that. And then within,

I think what was probably a couple of hours of that, a thorn got into my heel and the process showed me, well, you want to be the process, this is it. And so the thorn in my heel then was driving me out on the outside of my left foot, which meant, if you know anything, the human foot's like incredible, like 33 joints, 26 bones, over 100 muscles, tendons, ligaments reside in your foot, but it has specific loading areas and balance areas. And the big toe is like four times denser, thicker than all the other toes. And the

skinniest toes are, where do you think they are? Which ones? Well, the little toes, right? So the little toes are the most skinny. So they're the ones that definitely aren't for load, but it was throwing me out there. So my fourth and fifth met heads just got really most skinny. They're the ones that definitely aren't for load, but it was throwing me out there. My fourth and fifth met heads just got really inflamed. By the end of that day already, my foot was starting to swell. It was painful to put down. That was by Wednesday morning I was feeling that already. Then I had Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. So that's 150 miles I put on top of that. You're doing 30 miles a day.

30 miles a day. So from the get-go, 30 miles a day. So by the time I'd hit 247 miles, I think, was on Sunday night. And we were running into Whittington. And there was a guy that wanted to run with me. He ran along a bit of the journey with me. And then we did an interview just way back there, just that same day. And the roads, they were different. It wasn't like tarmac I'd felt before. So it's really weird. I've done so much coaching and so much practice and so much training and so much mindfulness and so much breath work, but you cannot train for these variables know it can be a piece of tarmac you haven't experienced before it can be a thorn that you've never experienced before it could be a piece of glass it could be

anything that could be thrown in the way so that's just it you understand that's just processed eventually it's just as part of it's part of the run um so for me it became um that the outside of it becomes so swollen on that day the tarmac was so sharp that where i'd been overloading the right side of my foot the skin had become so thin that i pivoted off the big toe and it split the skin between my big toe and the second toe so the so the left ones like was really swollen i wouldn't be i wouldn't get my shoe on it was that swollen the right one right underneath there it split and so i woke up on monday morning um a shadow of a man basically i just looked absolutely terrible i mean there wasn't i didn't

recognize recognize myself in the mirror and i knew everyone else was looking at me like oh it doesn't look good today and I we still went out I got changed got into the car procrastinated what should have been half seven turned into eight then it turned into 8 15 about whether you should go and run no just trying to get out the car just even the process of trying to get the physical body out the car there was a massive divide between my mind and my physiology at that point so you were struggling to get out of the car to even not because of the swelling and i could get out the car i could say right i'm just going to get out the car but my mind wasn't allowing me to get out the car do you know i mean it was almost like i'm going to choose everything i possibly can right now to not allow myself to get out the car you know do you know i mean i

could have it could have been anything it was just a distraction it was procrastination basically it was just like this is what are you doing kind of moment i said so why were you procrastinating well it's a level of pain that i don't think i'd actually reached before so um i think between the swelling and the and the split knowing that i've got to put my feet on the same tarmac that put me in that position the night before um was part of it and so i managed to get out the car i kind of hobbled around the corner and i faced all the commuter traffic because it was getting later it was howling down with rain and um just i and i was watching even the parents go past

their kids and there's this crazy man standing in the road like colin hodlin along with no shoes on barefoot yeah with his swollen feet and i did my normal warm-up i did a squat so i do a squat and then i stood up and then i would normally jump on the spot to try and get some rhythm in the body and then try and get tempo like we've done tempo drills yeah and then off i'd go but it was rather like that conversation trying to get out the car it's a bizarre one the mind knows and it's almost like the mind knows if you do this you're going to get hurt yourself so i i tried to pull my feet off the floor and it was if they were stuck so i couldn't actually get my physically get my feet off the ground to start running and i was like look okay

so we'll work with some breath right so do So do some breath work, try and calm the feeling of vomit. I was basically going to be sick. And so I was trying to hold that back. And then I was trying to hold the tears back. Then I was trying to hold the roaring back. And then it all just came. So I was sobbing in the middle of the traffic, roaring at the traffic, you know, obscenities

and whatever I could to try and get myself into some kind of action. What were the tears about? Do you know what they were about? Was it about the pain you were in or was there more? I think in that moment, it's everything. It's like, oh, the decision from December up until that moment and everything in between, all the training, all the hours,

or maybe I should have done more, the questioning questioning had i got the plan how is this right even the lola conversation of have you thought about really why you're doing this papa everything was in that moment and then it was and then it was oh i know i can't do this and right now i can't do this and so then then I questioned what would be, what's the next conversation? Because I've set this as a 30-30 challenge. This is my challenge. I'm going to do this in 30 days.

I've put even my coaching philosophy and all my belief system that I can do this run is in this moment right now. And I had to question everything. So that's a lot of pressure. And that's only day eight. You know, looking at at it from the outside you have been talking about this for many months i've obviously interviewed about you about it i've done some massive interviews right you've been on rich rolls podcast you've been sky news talking about this um challenge you're

going to do and everyone's you know get it wow it's amazing tony you're going to do it barefoot this is great we can't wait to watch so i can imagine in that moment only eight days in when you've almost in many ways state your reputation on this you're out there your philosophy you've taken your family on the road with you and you're injured and you've you can't probably put weights properly on that foot let alone run on it, certainly with no shoes on, that must hit you on every level, physical, emotional, spiritual. You're getting attacked on every single level there. And you said you were shouting obscenities in the road. So how have you dealt with that? Because I guess all of us face struggle in our lives at some

point, right? All of us have a plan. Many people have tried to change their lifestyle before. And I said, you know, I'm going to go on this dietary plan now. I'm going to work out. I'm going to do this. And then they come across, let's say an injury or a reason why they can't do that. So or a reason why they can't do that. So I'm intrigued as to how you have coped with this. Also, maybe as a way of shining a light to some of us as how we might be able to cope with adversity in our own lives. So, you know, you may not feel that you've been the example for that, but I'm interested, you shouted obscenities, what else did you do? How did you come around? Because tonight tonight you seem pretty calm and you have been posting on instagram about trusting the process yeah absolutely do you

believe that in yourself that you've been trusting the process or is that something yeah i've got to say that i i have to feel that because i know that's what i should be doing but in that moment of turmoil is it hard to trust the process? Just taking a quick break to give a shout out to AG1, one of the sponsors of today's show. Now, if you're looking for something at this time of year to kickstart your health, I'd highly recommend that you consider AG1. AG1 has been in my own life for over five years now. It's a science-driven daily health drink with over 70 essential nutrients to support your overall health. It contains vitamin C and zinc, which helps support a healthy immune system, something that is really important, especially at this time of year. It also contains prebiotics and digestive enzymes

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And I always know that there's such valuable lessons in those dark spaces. And part of that understanding that it's all just a process. And I keep repeating it, trust in the process. But the message that came in on Tuesday was that it is all process. We're just being a process. It's part of the experience. And so the experience can be good or bad. It's still an experience.

It's all one thing. But we always want the good and the happiness and everything that comes with that thing. But without the bad stuff, how do you appreciate the good stuff i mean it's like it's all one run roller coaster of a ride in a way that is the life and and i i wouldn't take on a challenge like this if i did if i didn't think uh i i can't deal with the adversity some way and and how do i get through it it's it's very simple free tools that we all have access to and so that's human contact as in hugs from your tribe you know because i needed that there's breath work because breath work enables me to instantly just drop into my body again um breath's like the first the first thing to get to it's just

like right okay how do we get back to nasal breathing just completely down regulate and just make sense of it all meditation again um mobility get movement back into the body i've become really quite stiff in in a way because of the the tension and fear, I guess, that was going through that system. You're going to make me do this again. I've got to go and do this again. So mobilizing that. And then cold therapy. I really, I'm a big fan of, as I said before, ice baths and cold immersion, because I think it honestly feels like a rite of passage. I could have anything going on in the world. I went into that bathroom some days like a 90 year old tony but not a not empowered 90 year old i mean someone's had their power taken away and just hobbling into

the bathroom and and and then i'd close the door and you'd hear the ice bags get emptying in the bath and then and then i'd get in and i'd spend five minutes in there and then i come out out pops another being a different being so it's a it's just having tools simple tools that I think we lose sight of and we're looking for other solutions maybe yeah did you you've you clearly got access to these tools to help you when you come across um adversity yeah but we're all human aren't we? And we might know the right thing to do, but sometimes in that moment, it's hard to actually do those things. Do you think you dropped into that straight away? Or do you think it took you, do you think you flipped into some

old patterns, let's say initially, and then you had to go, okay, hold on a minute. This is a learning opportunity. What can I learn from this? How can I embrace this? How can I lean into this? Yeah, I think what came out of that experience at the start was how multifaceted the personality is. You know, there's the victim, there's the dictator, there's the little boy in there that's, you know, and there's the superheroes, many different characters within.

Did you feel the victim mentality yeah the victim came in why does this happen to me you know i'm out there on the run how could that happen yes and again because you because you it's understanding that if you work with breath you don't give that you if you go straight into breath you the voice comes up this stuff comes up and it highlights it and it's like okay there's there's there's the there's the victim okay and then just spend a bit of time there because again there's lessons within the victim there's lessons within becoming the little boy who's needs his mum within that situation there's lessons within all of it because it's all process again it's process and it's an experience what can i experience

from this moment so let me let me just relish in the moment for a second let me cry let me put my head in my hands let me be everything i need to be in this moment because this this moment is i'm going to become strong from that there's something that will be that will rise out of it and already there was a victory today i ran up the stairs today fantastic we changed our house today we moved up to chester and without even thinking about it just ran up the stairs and back down again so already today. Fantastic. We changed our house today. We moved up to Chester. And without even thinking about it, I just ran up the stairs and back down again. So already,

there was, oh, wow. Okay. So you've had two days off from running. Two days off. You brought your family on the road with you.

Absolutely. So you're spending a lot of time with the family. Yeah, yeah. Your plan is at the moment to get back on the road tomorrow. Tomorrow morning, 7 a.m., yeah. And you're planning to do 30 miles and we do 30 tomorrow yeah and then it will continue

from there you're feeling confident in yourself that actually you know what i can i can put that sort of mileage through my foot and through my ankle yeah i'm bearing in mind that i've done i say look i've completed nine and a half marathons in eight days right and um I've said it all along just even that in itself you know I'm taking that for granted because we're thinking about yeah we still got 30s to go but I think that in itself is a phenomenal achievement yeah um would you agree it's a round of applause I mean I think that is well I think we should celebrate that because yeah that because many of us in the room probably haven't even done a marathon.

I know I've met one ultra marathoner here today. I was introduced before this, but a lot of us have not even done a marathon. So to do that many, it's pretty incredible. I would say within the technique and, you know, I've always said that, you know, we're the descendants of some pretty awesome beings, right? So they're our ancestors let's say and even the tribes of today that still go out they were persistent hunt and they will do things every day right so when i spoke to one of my friends i was like oh you're kidding me tony i

can't believe it you know i can't believe how upset you are you've done nine marathons in nine and a half marathons in eight days i i had to train for a year to do a marathon he said and i couldn't walk for a week my toenails had fallen off and all kinds of stuff so you know give yourself a break yeah but you know we have to understand also what we what we can what we can achieve if we start to align with what is the biological norm again yeah so am i ready for tomorrow my technique's ready for tomorrow and that's what i i've always held I I can't again predict whether there's a thorn or something else thrown in my way we've changed the route somewhat because what I found I think was probably a massive distraction that I hadn't anticipated was the traffic like we did the we

ran from Land's End to John O'Groats Land's End to um Whittington and the first leg of that in Cornwall is like the A30 so it's a dual carriageway massive trucks flying past and it's a distraction and you and you're in and out in and out of what should be for me the mindful practice of running so that I found exhausting I found that probably more exhausting the physical effort of the running was just the mental focus on the traffic not being hit by trucks or dealing with abuse out the window or whatever was whatever was thrown my way yeah so I have again I don't doubt the physicality of it again but I can't put that out there you know that's i think that's the biggest lesson so far is whereas previously it was like yeah you know i've got this in the physicality and it was like

aren't you nervous and i was like well no i trust the process and i trust my physical ability to do it and my technique what i was more concerned about was the logistics yeah but it turns out the logistics held up and the physicality didn't you know i mean and see you and that's a lesson that's a lesson for me and it's humility in a way it's for me to just really in a bit and say well actually you know i don't know how things are going to turn out you know all i know is i have this challenge and that's that's my challenge and whatever thrown in my way is still the challenge that's the point it's a it's a it's a really beautiful perspective to hear um there's a real sense that you are staying in the present and that is something pretty much all of us can improve our ability to do is stay in the present not worry about what's happening tomorrow you know you're saying you know will you finish it well time will tell right

you know i guess you're as prepared as you can be but if someone puts an obstacle in front of you which is you know difficult to surmount then so be it you'll have to deal with that that's a new obstacle that's a new obstacle and that will happen in the moment it happens so that's it's about yeah again exactly exactly what you're saying it's about being present living in the moment and not not even oh we've done nine and a half marathons or we have this to go um because other people view that differently anyway. We were in a fruit and veg store in Shrewsbury yesterday. And the lady in there was asking about the run.

And I'd say, so now how far you got to go? And I said, oh, we only got 19 days to go, right? And she's like, oh my God, 19 days. That's so long. It was like the complete reversal of my language. Yeah, it's only 19 days to go you know so it's just every it's just being present really for me i don't need to look at right there's 19 days or how many days we've covered it's really just going to be as you say

living in the moment of it and again taking it back to the breath i think will be the the reward of it but i think we should explore that language you know how important our language is in terms of how we view challenges how we view the daily things that are going on in our lives um before i go down there i had another thought which i'd love to hear your thoughts on if you had to stop right now today you were done you could not continue this for whatever reason so at the end of this 30-day challenge that you'd put out there in the public and the media if you had to stop after doing eight and a half marathons instead of 30 would you consider that to be a failure no

no because it's it's a it's a challenge it is a challenge but the challenge would be whatever i succeed in within the challenge you know yeah i probably there would be a day it would be a day there and i'd explore all those those multi-faceted personalities again a victim and whatever but again we'd wake up and we go okay look i've got this amazing family i've got you know what have i got to complain about you know for a start i mean it's pretty privileged thing to go and do anyway i'll tell you i'm going to take a month off and go running the length of the uk i mean it's um you know first world problem right so um i guess for me it would be i'd still continue like we still did the interviews we still interviewed sustainability experts even on the days I wasn't running so I mean we were just driving all over the place

because again it's it's two-pronged isn't it there's a message there which is about raising awareness for sustainability in the environment I can still do that so what I may I if something if a truck hit me tomorrow and I couldn't do that then then I can't do that either you know I'd live in the moment and be present in whatever the lesson would have been of that and that would probably be um you know focus on the run yeah not the traffic but there was something in that I think about you know I posted about this recently on social media about we need to be looking for progress not perfection far too many of, you know, we let this strive for perfection get in the way of actually making progress. I'm either going to the gym

four times a week and working out. Oh, I missed one. I can't do it. I'm going to stop. There's a few nodding heads actually in this audience already on that because this is a very, very common theme. And I think, you know, you're maybe doing it at a much more extreme level than many of us, but everyone's got challenges in their own life. And I think that's a beautiful way of looking at it that I have no doubt you will get back on the road and go as far as you're meant to go. And I suspect that means you probably will complete it.

But if you don't, you're right, it's not a failure. It's like setting a challenge, it's seeing how far you can go. Well, you've said it is as far as i'm meant to go yeah you know that's a really nice way of looking at it isn't it for sure yeah you're a parent um your wife's here your kids are here and i know that you maybe have some views on parenting that are again potentially different from the norm and you I think like all parents are trying to do the best that you can for your children I genuinely believe every parent is trying to do that based upon their understanding based upon their experiences

they're trying to bring up their kids in the best way that they know how so I'm interested in the fact that you know the family's on the road with you. Obviously, you mentioned the question Lotho asked you. But did you feel the responsibility as a father? You know, you are facing adversity. Your kids can see that. Your kids can see you're in physical pain. Daddy's not able to do what he has set out to do, as well as how you cope with it yourself did you feel an added weight of pressure you know i need to model the right behavior here for my for my children i need to actually show them how you can overcome adversity um i think i've shown them i think um it's important for them to see that their papa is human you know more than anything that's the most important

thing i can give them like they hadn't they've never seen me cry before millie saw me crying i was my head in my hands in the bedroom and so they got to see vulnerability that's so important right i get to see our papa's human he's vulnerable um lola said you're not going to quit, are you, Papa? So I got to hear all of it. And I think... What did you say when she asked you that? No, I'm not going to quit because I knew I wasn't going to quit. But it would be a different conversation if I'm sat there and I'm, well, yeah, I'm going to quit.

If I was that broken, I can't do it. But then they would be around the energy and be able to observe the behavior that came with it. I think Lola taps into the emotion of it because they view it on more of an emotional level than we do, that you're not going to quit, are you? In other words, she knows I'm not going to quit. That's why she's asking, I felt in that moment.

And yeah, I can be the best example of the human being just by my behavior you know so if that means i cry if that means i yell if that means i is whatever is in that moment and they're witness to it they're witnessing something amazing this is an amazing experience then to see you know what's unraveling here and how I can come through that adversity. So already, Lola, what's on your bracelet, darling? What is it? Breathe. So Lola has a bracelet with breathe on it.

And I said, look, whenever you're feeling stressed or anxious, just look at your bracelet and just take a breath in and a breath out, you know? And just because they know that I can work with breath and they've seen me, what tools I use to get me out of what may look like i might be quitting at that moment yeah so they're learning just they're observing the behavior oh wow if i do a bit breath work wow i can be i can be a crumpled mess crying and sobbing in a pile when i do a bit of breath work getting in a cold shower and boom out pops another happy human it's a that's a that's a powerful message for them right i mean our kids can often be our teachers can't they absolutely they show us everything yeah they they look at things in a very different way often from from the way we do as adults and often i guess in many ways they have less baggage that they've accumulated yeah and it can be very i certainly know with my

own kids i'm learning lessons from them every day they they really help me to be present and mindful um and so what lessons have you learned from your children through this process what lessons have i learned from my child i learned everything through my children um i learned to keep my feet out the way when they're walking by we learned that didn't we quite quite quite quickly um again i i i learned to be vulnerable vulnerability i think was a big message for me through this trip whereas before i almost felt like um i don't know i don't know whether the whether if i felt like the kids maybe thought me as like this superhero of a papa go and do these things, you know, which is great, but it's not the truth, right? So the truth is, well, there's vulnerability in this situation.

It's not the truth. They provided the perfect, they held the space for me to do that. That was what was incredible you say it's not the truth but it's actually it's what a lot of society what a lot of men consider to be the truth right you can't show vulnerability um you can't show that side of you um it's i'm acutely aware that yesterday was uh world suicide prevention day oh yeah um with the amount of men committing suicide in the uk it was just just staggering statistics and you know one of the things we often talk about is the fact that men don't feel in society that they can open up that they can be vulnerable that being a man is shutting down your feelings and keeping it all inside and

going on even in the face of adversity and on some level. So I think it's quite poignant that this is happening the day after that in terms of, you know, showing vulnerability, you know, to your children from a man at their young age. It's a wonderful thing to show them. And what do you think generally about men showing vulnerability in society and, you know, how we're going to encourage that more and more? Well, I think firstly, we need to show all the male emotions, not just vulnerability. I think that's another thing that male emotions have been suppressed for so long. feeling about post-war PTSD that comes handed down from wars and what men weren't meant to talk about or weren't meant to show emotions. We were all inheriting some weird stuff back then.

And so I've held men's retreats where it's not just about vulnerability, it's about letting them go off in the woods and roar their heads off or hug or chant or do something we're missing all that you know it's just what we just hello how are you yeah i've got four emotions i'm happy i'm tired i'm a little bit upset and yeah it didn't go well at work today do you know what i mean that's no wonder everyone's so suppressed right so it's about really it's about exploring all the emotions and yeah i think it's very important vulnerability but i also think we need to show other we need to our strengths to the strengths of in our emotions you know um and and actually that's not just masculinity that's on both sides you know we're all just a bit of a mess really emotionally aren't we so i think yeah the more you can identify and the more you can explore it the

better and it might take adversity to do that that's the thing i've lost the business gone through a breakdown broke through you know and and just realized that ah it's it's happening for me right it doesn't it's not happening to me it's just happening for me and again out of that i've always become a better human i've always become stronger for it and i think the strength has come from identifying, again, what those emotions are within. And the more deep and the more inner work you do, the more you're familiar with those.

Yeah, for sure. Which is like the multifaceted personality I'm talking about. That's just their emotions, really, aren't they? Things that get flagged up. And you go, ah, I recognize that one. Okay, thanks. And then goodbye. And then the next one comes up.

Ah, I recognize that one. And you just go on. You know vulnerability is just it's part of that it's just um i mean you mentioned losing a business and going through various things and and you know these um these experiences in life they they shape us don't they we we've got choices we can either sort of well in the grief of them which again might be appropriate at certain times yeah absolutely i think it's just important right and hopefully we can learn from them and actually come out on the other side with some new tools um i wrote about this actually in um in in my last book on stress i i remember one of the one of the most um one of the things i've learned from my wife's family um really is you know my my wife's dad, his family live in Nairobi in Kenya.

And they used to have businesses there. They were very successful. And in the coup in the early 80s, 1980s, they lost everything overnight. They literally lost everything. And, you know, it's a long story. The short version is they ended up coming to the UK. Again, started off a business. That didn't work out, lost everything. And I remember, you know, within a few months of meeting now, what are my in-laws? You know, my father-in-law had a phrase,

you know, about money. He always used to say money comes, money goes, doesn't matter. And it's just, I it you know as i've got older and older and experienced more in life i think it's such a beautiful perspective he's had money and lost everything had money lost everything and i think when you go through that you realize money comes and goes right don't worry about it and it's it almost sounds sounds trivial unless you've gone through things like that because we think, you know, money's everything. Money's really, really important, right? But I think it's like any experience,

any adversity in life has the opportunity to help us learn something about ourselves, learn new tools. And I think that shows that. I think your own experience has certainly shown that to you. But I think your story is also very inspiring for people here hopefully for the people listening to this podcast I hope that they can take something from your story because I think there's there's

something inspirational in you know would it have been the same thing let's say Tony Riddle goes on his barefoot run um and you do it you do 30 miles a day and smash it and smash it and there's no problem actually would that be better or is or is this better i don't know yeah i wonder what i wonder what the ego would have been like at the end of that you know like ah i just smashed it in 30 days you know that kind of voice might come in but um i think we were discussing it james and i were discussing it you know and hey it makes for a good story right you know um but going back to the money the money the money is the interesting one isn't it i think when when you go down that path of um and you have loss no matter what it is it just highlights the stuff that's really valuable in life right

and again all that stuff's for free again right all your family and your friends and your connections and and you realize that all the materialism and all this is just stuff right yeah and it's stuff that you're handed from the moment you're born right you're born into the world everyone goes right here's here's something here's another thing here's another thing and you just get attached to all this stuff you know yeah really that it's about the fundamental needs again isn't it you know it just highlights that for me it just again nothing for me can be beaten by going for a walk in the park with my family or go to the heath with the family or you know a nice meal with friends or yeah a good night's sleep or a bit of meditation or breath work you know it's just it's

just such simple things and i think that's they're really the tools they're the tools to help us get through adversity and the mental challenges right they are and what's really out for me is that you said what a privilege to be able to take a month off and go and run around the uk which of course it is but the flip side is these tools you're talking about hugging hugging more, connecting with friends, you know, breathing, having a cold shower, let's say, meditating, a lot of these things are actually completely free and accessible to everyone. So I wonder if we might actually go into some of those tips, because I think you have got a wealth of experience of dealing with people, trying to help them with various tools. And so you mentioned mentioned breathwork you mentioned that your daughter wears a bracelet with breathe on it yeah and you know

breathing is something i'm exploring more and more than i've become a little bit obsessed with it because i really do think it could be one of the ultimate um ways of actually controlling your biology and it's a simple thing that with some dedicated practice can really have a lot of downstream effects absolutely you've got quite an advanced breathing practice so i i wonder if you could share and maybe we might be able to do it with the live audience potentially uh but you never breathe off one that's also going to work for the we do just leave we'd walk out then we just leave you the one that's also going to work for people listening to this but is there a short breathing practice that you like that we could all potentially try and do together all right well this isn't me this is because i'm not i'm not a breath guru

um but i i basically started off we would there's so many modalities i'm not looking at my phone i'm looking at i was looking at an app to get a breathing app on i'm not answering messages by the way um we there's so many modalities of breath right and i really loved all the wim hof work and and getting people in the ice bath but what we were finding is that they were people were already coming in upregulated and anxious when you say upregulated can you just explain what you mean yes so you have um we talked about cellular behavior before in petri dishes haven't we but um right imagine a cell two behaviors. It has a growth and it has protection. It's like a switch. Growth, protection. Growth, protection. If I put really growth

promoting information into a petri dish with cells in it, they go growth. And if I put information in there that's toxic to them, they go protection. So growth, I like to call parasympathetic which is rest and digest right that makes sense that's like ah if i was a primate and i was in the trees i'd just be super chilled like this and he was smoking marijuana i'm really chilled out right um and then the moment a threat comes then i'm then i'm off and that's what we call sympathetic so that's like the fight and flight let's say and so that would be the protection mechanism within the cells. Okay. And that can, this mechanism can be, I can add toxins or I can create a signal and the signals like perception. So perception can trigger that. It's just like, this is Bruce Lipton's epigenetics, right? So breath work for me is a way of getting people to go into what would be growth

or I can put them into more of a protection mechanism. So upregulating can be an alert state. Like I need someone, they might be a bit low, like a bit down, and I might need them to go and be really alert for something. So I go, I want you to practice this method of breathing. It will pick them up. So they become alert. You know, so that's an alert state. If I want to be really chilled out because they're already like, oh my God, this is great. I'm loving this. But I need them to go into a meeting or something or put up a PowerPoint. And I want to down-regulate them. Then I choose a parasympathetic form of breathing that's going to chill them out. Does that help slightly explain

that? Now I'm not a breath guru, but I work with an app that I found. A friend of mine, Chris from WeMove Magazine, we did an ice bath. We had a load of people come. And he said, I've just interviewed this guy called Eddie Stern. You've got to listen to this. And Eddie Stern was a Shtanga practitioner for likes of Sting and Madonna. Anyway, he put this app together, and it's called the Breathing App. So I recommend that I'll put it up on your – I'll send you a link to it.

You can send it out. You guys are on a mailing list, I guess, aren't you? It's very simply called Breathing App. And it's the most beautiful thing. Look at that. There you go. And you have this. So I'm going to put this up on a wall in a studio of mine.

And if I press play, look, the circle goes bigger. That would suggest the breath in. And then the circle goes small again. And that would suggest the breath out, right the circle goes small again and that would suggest the breath out right that's very simple isn't it right okay then it has this version which is wonderful oh no it's not it's different can you hear that's a breath in yeah i'll put on this one yeah okay so there's a inhale sound and there's an exhale sound. Then you can program in, oh, how do I want to do that? I can create a four, six tempo. So that'd be four seconds in and a six seconds out.

The longer the exhale, the more the heart rate and blood pressure will drop. Okay. So when we breathe in, you get like the tempo goes up. When you breathe out, things start to relax off again. So you want the out breath to last just that bit longer um the thing about that you have to play with it because a four six tempo for some of us might be you might only be capable of a two four or three six or whatever yeah and what you can do if you force tempos on people they get they get a bit up regulated trying to find it so firstly let's practice this. You put your hands on your chest like that. Okay. And I want you to understand the difference between... Lola, talk us through nasal breathing. The nose is for what? And what's the mouth for?

Eating, right? So noses are for breathing, mouths are for eating, right? There you go. Simple. So if I ask you to breathe in through your mouth really deeply eyes can you feel your chest rise yeah okay so that would suggest the lungs are only about here right would you agree okay now you put your hands on your tummy like that okay breathe out and now we take a long inhale through your nose like this. And then you kind of get your belly and your chest, don't you? So we just suggest that you start to understand, oh, I'm reaching the potential of my lungs, really, the full potential of the lungs. So that's a start. So now what we do, we're going to work through, let's say,

let's try 10 cycles. That's all we're going to do. And so the inhale, I don't want you to think in through the nose. I want you to think up through the nose. So it's more like a for as long as you possibly can. And then just a letting go and then an up through the nose and then a letting go. I want you to keep the eyes closed and inhale up through the nose and just keep that tempo for me. In through the nose and letting go on the out breath.

In through the nose. And letting go on the out-breath. In through the nose. And letting go on the out-breath. Let's do two more. In through the nose. And letting go on the out-breath. So simple.

That's like 10 cycles of breath. Simple tool. There's other modalities. So another one is to think of like a box. We covered box breathing on Patico method where you might say, I'm going to inhale for say three, a count of three, hold for three,

exhale for three, hold for three, inhale. So you think of a box you know so that's two very simple systems i mean that was about 20 20 seconds of breathing and you could it's tangible in the room the whole energy shifts yeah 100 i guess for someone listening to this who thinks who's heard the term breath work has just heard that and thinks okay that sounds great have you got something specific you can recommend? Someone who's never done this before, they've heard that they're inspired to give it a go, you know, how can you make it achievable for them? You know, have you got

any tips that you can say to them? Before we get back to this week's episode, I just wanted to let you know that I am doing my very first national UK theatre tour. I am planning a really special evening where I share how you can break free from the habits that are holding you back and make meaningful changes in your life that truly last. It is called the Thrive Tour. Be the architect of your health and happiness. It is called The Thrive Tour, Be the Architect of Your Health and Happiness. So many people tell me that health feels really complicated, but it really doesn't need to be. In my live event, I'm going to simplify health and together we're going to learn the skill of happiness, the secrets to optimal health, how to break free from the habits that are holding you back in your life, and I'm going to teach you how to make

changes that actually last. Sound good? All you have to do is go to drchatterjee.com forward slash tour. And I can't wait to see you there. This episode is also brought to you by the Three Question Journal, the journal that I designed and created in partnership with Intelligent Change. Now, journaling is something that I've been recommending to my patients for years. It can help improve sleep, lead to better decision-making, and reduce symptoms of anxiety and depression. It's also been shown to decrease emotional stress, make it easier to turn new behaviours into long-term habits,

and improve our relationships. There are, of course, many different ways to journal. And as with most things, it's important that you find the method that works best for you. One method that you may want to consider is the one that I outline in the three-question journal. In it, you will find a really simple and structured way of answering the three most impactful questions I believe that we can all ask ourselves every morning and every evening. Answering these questions will take you less than five minutes, but the practice of answering them regularly will be transformative. Since the journal was published in January, I have received

hundreds of messages from people telling me how much it has helped them and how much more in control of their lives they now feel. Now, if you already have a journal or you don't actually want to buy a journal, that is completely fine. I go through in detail all of the questions within the three question, completely free on episode 413 of this podcast. But if you are keen to check it out, all you have to do is go to drchatterjee.com forward slash journal or click on the link in your podcast app. Yeah, I think it's to put it in in in throughout the day rather than trying to isolate times oh i'm going to do breath work now and put it in a box you know so dinner time simple one so for dinner you want to prepare kind of the digestive system so remember when i said paris in fact means

rest and digest doesn't it so you want a rested organism to be able to digest so i would before dinner just to sit down and just oh i'm gonna go i'm gonna do a few cycles of breath inhale through the nose exhale really relaxing inhale through the nose and just try and spend longer on the exhale that's what i recommend don't drive yourself nuts trying to achieve four seconds in or whatever it is it's just whatever you feel is a relaxed in breath because that can become a stress in itself trying to count this much and that much i've been to classes like that and you're like oh okay i've got it okay and you're you're battling and fighting to try and get the tempo of the person that's leading the class you know and we're all uniquely different right you have a unique

different respiratory system that might change from day to day i might go to one class tomorrow and be able to inhale for 10 seconds i might go again the next day it'd be three seconds so it's whatever what there's there's no i call them i'm now calling them present best not personal bests okay it's a present best right if it was a new olympics it'd be oh i don't care it's a present best what you? If it was a new Olympics, it would be, oh, I don't care. It's a present best. What you said about dinner time, I think is super, super interesting because what I have seen with my patients in the last, I'd say a couple of years, what I've noticed is that sometimes people think they're reacting to a food, but they're actually reacting to the fact that they're in a stress state. So how many of us

rush around, we're eating, you know, on the go, trying to do our emails at the same time. Again, I do this sometimes, I know I shouldn't do, but again, sometimes you end up in that pattern. And with some patients who thought that they were reacting to a certain food, I would teach them a breath that I use a lot with my patients, the three, four, five breath. When you breathe in for three, you hold for four and you breathe out for five. And some of them have reported back that when they do that for a minute before they eat they're no longer reacting to the food that they were reacting to before and it's suddenly when you understand the physiology of stress it all makes sense suddenly you're putting your body out of this stress state you're

you're allowing it to go into rest and digest, a relaxation state, and suddenly you're no longer reacting to that food. So I absolutely just want to emphasize that doing this before you eat, ideally if you live with other people, a partner or children or friends, get everyone to do it at the same time. It's a really beautiful practice to do together and it's going to help you digest your food better. Yeah, I mean you think about think about you know in that fight and flight response that moment of stress there's so much fuel used on digestion alone right so on a meal i might be using 60 of that meal to digest alone right and so if i'm stressed out what am i going to am i going to oh there's a it's a fight and flight response right the there's the lines in the room right now

roaring away at me what are we going to do i'm going to go hold on i'm just got to digest my food hold on or would i shut my digestive system on because i need that 60 of energy to fuel my body to get out the room you understand so digestive system is one of the first things to get compromised really with stress yeah for sure and so that's why breath work is the key it's kind of just you can assimilate with foods with it it will help your bowel movements for a start it just helps everything that whole digestive enzymes and everything just prepare the body for food to begin with sleep as well breath before sleep i think um rest and digest again so we live in a in a world that's constantly on right and um I mentioned this in one of the podcasts I did recently, but it's a lawyer that I coach,

Lawrence, and he's now 72. And so for Lawrence, he started out in his career, he would write letters and he'd write letters from one lawyer to another. And they'd do the diligence and everything would be done within that letter. They'd be so thorough in their research. Everything would be done so they didn't have to write another letter it would go off they'd have a week to respond right one whole week then the facts came then he said right okay then we had about three days really if we were pushing it you know if we get away with it and then um the email came and then it became a day and he said and then the email

started to accelerate and then the internet came and then it became a day. And he said, and then the email started to accelerate. And then the internet came and accelerated and accelerated until you then had the office in your hand. And then he said that one letter turned into 10 emails because no one really did the work. It's like it's just writing emails back and forth, back and forth, whereas it was so thorough before. So they created more work for themselves. But also what went out the window are those moments of reflection and rest. The moments when they might have just sat back a bit, taken a breath in the office to have a think about what's coming next. That's been removed. So if that's

been removed, how do you reinstate it? And you reinstate it by I set timers in the office for people, 25 minutes, whatever it is, set a timer, ding, okay, just sit and do a breath, just return back to the breath for a moment, tick them off, right, I've done a breath now, great, I've got a breath, I've accumulated a breath, see how many breaths you can accumulate in a day, and then when it comes to the evening, as a parent, as a papa, who runs a business and does all kinds of other stuff, they don't need to see me with all the crap I've carried for the rest of my day. They want to see me chilled out when I walk in the home, right? So I get to the door and I do a bit of breath before I go in the

door because I want to down-regulate before I walk in the house. I also have the tube and London and everyone around me and all that weird energy. I've got to try and dump that before I get in the house and breath's a great opportunity for that. Then in the house I go. And then before bed, again, down-regulating breath. And if you have babies, again, in the house, it should be the breath as well needs to be around the baby so you're down-regulated in your rest and digest because they pick up just on energy they just pick up on the pure emotion of things they don't understand the language the language is the emotion isn't it so again working with breath work to just down regulate the the bedroom and

the harmony of the home i think is just it's powerful just working with breath i think breath's just it's we we're again but there's so many modalities of it i think just keeping it simple keep it simple nasal breathing just as lola said noses of a breathing mouths are for eating and try and keep it to that and work on the tempo trying to exhale for a little bit longer i think what you said about um coming in from work is something i think a lot of people will resonate with because we we do live in these busy cultures now where you know know, we can't really switch off. Even if you work in an office, maybe I'm harping back to the good old days, but let's say 20 years ago, you worked in the office and you finished off your work. And then let's say

you drove home, if that was the way you got back. You'd come in, you'd be, you'd sort of unwind probably on that drive and you'd walk in. You wouldn't have the option as the car comes in the drive to pick up the smartphone and quickly just check your work emails and say, oh, something else is coming. I can do that. And I do think this is almost like a hidden epidemic that we are carrying stress from our work days into our personal lives. I think technology, smartphones have absolutely made this. Again, this is not about demonizing technology. It's about saying there is a consequence, there are some benefits and there are some negatives. I think one of the negatives is that, you know, I've done this before, you come in, you check your email on the drive and you walk in as you're sort of replying to one or, you know,

checking Instagram as you're walking in. To think that will not have a consequence on the relationship you have with your partner, with your children, it's just simply not grounded in reality. It is having an impact because, you know, I see the impacts as adults, the amount of people who come in with actual relationship issues now, that I think a lot of it is a downstream effect from the fact that we're super stressed out and we don't have time. We've not created that time and space for those people that mean so much to us so i think you know without going on a bit for a rant i do think something like a breathing practice or something that you do before you come and re-engage with people let's say after a day at work i think is incredibly incredibly beneficial and it's something i i very much try and do as much as i can although i'm not great at all well we're not perfect are we I mean I've been I've been right I've been on my device let's call it a device um my vice my device um

over the last three days um because we've been planning stuff and getting routes and then answering stuff around the center and then I realized today I was in the bathroom and Tallulah just came in and she gave me my phone right and she's three and a half and in that today I was in the bathroom and Tallulah just came in and she gave me my phone. And she's three and a half. And in that moment, I was like, okay, thanks, Tallulah. Again, the best lesson of all. She's just shown me. You know, you've lost the extension of your arm right now.

Here you go. Here's your hand back or something. Do you know what I mean? So that just highlighted, oh, I've basically been on my device for too much. Now I know. Thanks for that. She's highlighted it. But they teach us, right?

Yeah. And, you know, we're experimenting with this. we're the generation that's being experimented on but the danger is that they're observing that experiment you know what i mean and they learn through observation don't they the young ones so um i mean we have to have tools in place and we have to have a better understanding of the device and for me it's like the stealing fire have you read that jamie wheel no and they talk about the altered for me, it's like the stealing fire. Have you read that Jamie wheel? No. And they talk about the altered state economy and it's something like 4.2 trillion dollars, the altered state economy, which is gaming, alcohol, drugs, altered state drugs,

mobile devices, but it's nearly all dopamine. So we have happy hormones, right? So we can all hug each other and get oxytocin. You hug for long, you get serotonin, right? Those really awkward ones where you hug your relatives and they go, ooh. We could be moving around in the room and playing together and just stirring up a crazy party or go to what they call the morning raves now. Morning glory view. You can go to that and you get oxytocin and endocabinoids and dorphins. You get all those happy hormones going, but we have a happy hormone saboteur and it's like dopamine. Dopamine is a pleasure-seeking hormone. So, you're always seeking. And this thing just,

they say that, I think it's Sapolsky said that, you know, to even get a like or a swipe or something is a 400% increase of dopamine. The highest increase of dopamine is an orgasm, that's 100%, right? So we're all chasing 400% and then gaming for kids is 800%. They've got games now that are 800% dopamine. You can't beat that, you know? So you have to have tools in place to just find ways of stepping away from it because it's almost like the replacement for, it's a pacifier. So the more suffering we have, you know, if we don't use things like breathwork, meditation, mobility, go to yoga, do these things that are actually the free stuff, we end up pacifying to deal with the suffering instead, which can be the altered state economy, which I'm saying,

it's not alcohol, there's drugs in there in there there's whatever but there's also shopping um and there's this right and it's just another form of just escapism pacifying yeah dealing with it well this this is actually particularly in the last 24 hours something that scares me a lot no it's it's important i i um went on um bbc radio 5 live yesterday at lunchtime. They called me in the morning and said, could you come on? We want to talk about information overloads. So I went on a chap called Nihal's show,

which is brilliant. And there were three other people there with me and we were talking about information overloads, this society where we are constantly consuming. And I was trying to say what impact I think it's having, not judging it, but saying the impact it's having on our brain. Various parts of our brain are responding to that in real time. Um, and also some simple tools. And what was really interesting, I said, look, I get it for some people. It doesn't appear to

be a problem, but just be aware that there could be consequences off this. And right at the very end, and we were there for about an hour having this discussion on live radio. And now how last we have some top tips. And I gave some, what I thought was some very simple practical tips. And then he went around saying, how many of you are going to take the good doctor's tips? And what was interesting, one of the sort of super productive guys who actually is always looking to hack his mind and listens to podcasts at double speed and listens to audiobooks at double speed. Actually, he also, he does that to increase

his productivity but he also makes sure he's got time to chill and meditate and work on his breath so i think there's that sort of yin yang balance he's doing it being more productive you know using what technology can give you but he's also seeming to balance that but the other two were very much though well you know i'm not going to do it you know and saying you know i'm not going to do that they were a bit younger. And I thought, fair enough, everyone's entitled to make their choices. But I was quite sad on the car home afterwards. I thought, wow, even trying to make the case of the consequences of this in terms of memory, insomnia, the fact that parts of your brain are changing in size in response to

having no downtime in your life, which is huge. They were still unwilling to change. And it made me feel, I'm a pretty optimistic guy. I always think you can make change. And I still do. I woke up today and I still think you can. But I did think, wow, this is pretty endemic now where people are hearing it and thinking, no, it's too seductive, consuming more content, watching another youtube video listening to another podcast you know and i say this as a podcast host that um you know i think this is a a huge problem in society and one that we are going to have to wrestle with it's one that i'm so aware of with my children i don't know if i'm doing the right thing i think a lot of people

would consider what i do with my kids probably quite extreme in terms of how much I let them on technology which is not very much at all um and I struggle because I feel I know what this is doing at a young age to your brain I've read some of that research it worries me but then I don't want him to be a social outcast you don't alienate I don't want him to not fit in with his friends and I don't have the answer to that well I think the school system needs to change there's schools already that are bringing that in aren't they where they're having no school mobile devices in the school yeah well the irony is isn't it in silicon valley all their all their tech giants who've come up with this stuff they all send their kids to schools where you're not allowed devices in nature steve jobs wouldn't allow his kids to have um devices and

bill gates just has that one computer in the house it was in the kitchen wouldn't let anyone near a device you know so i mean that that that says it all doesn't it that is but look tony we could go down this rabbit hole for another hour because it's something i'm super passionate about but i just want to briefly to sort of finish this off for people you have you're doing this uh challenge to also raise awareness about sustainability. So I wonder if we could just briefly cover sustainability. Briefly cover sustainability. I'm not sure that's possible. But, you know, what are the problems in society about sustainability? What are you trying to raise awareness of?

And I guess, is it possible to really make a difference by us making individual changes? Or do we need some more systemic things to happen in society to actually really make a difference? I think it happens at both levels, doesn't it? So the individual's impact. I've been doing some amazing interviews. We met this guy from Carbon Analytics. So Carbon Analytics will mean the future will be,

so this is not government, This is moving away from government. This guy is a CEO. And so that you would be able to go to Chris's counter there, and it would show you what the carbon impact is of each thing that you're buying. Isn't that amazing? So you could make a choice then. You say, right, okay, I'm going to buy, I don't know, a cake over there that's this much carbon versus this much.

So that's the individual who will change that. But it's a bigger system that has to change behind that. We met with Hugo Tagholm from Surfers Against Sewerage. So they're a small, small organization that have had such a big impact. They have changed legislation, right? organization that have had such a big impact they have changed legislation right this small voice that went to government and then they were the biggest voice behind having the um charge on plastic bags right added small surface again and they're just we went to see how many people came out 12 people in this office we're like what and that's such a massive impact and they're now

moving towards they want to change legislation about plastic bottle recycling having recycling units just for plastic bottles that you can go to you know so and then the individual can be about yeah what you recycle what you reuse what you upcycle you know and so i think from the individual's perspective yes we all need to be the change but but also at the same time, don't give yourself anxiety. You know, it's like some instances, I might have to buy a plastic bottle of water, you know, I might have to do that. But I might have saved 3,600 plastic bottles by getting a water filter installed in my home, which I've done. But the old plastic bottle, you know, I'm not going to kill myself over that. So it's again, what we talked about at the start progress not perfection it's not about you're either doing everything for

sustainability or you're not you can sort of do a bit of both you can try your best on an individual level but accept that actually society does make it hard sometimes and sometimes absolutely you will fall short of what you would ideally do but don't stress about it yeah i mean you know eventually the system will change it is changing already you know the plastic bag charge has been amazing 85 percent you know drop in plastic bag use i think it's higher than that was it yeah um so that's that's a huge change and that was to a group of people they change legislation that's one way of doing it you know and you can join groups like that you become a member of the SAS right service against sewerage um so that's one way of doing it right again you can make small changes yourself but I think the important thing is just not put

yourself in that state of anxiety that oh my god or put a label on yourself you know yeah but don't create an ism out of it because then you then you have to keep striving for the perfection you know and also if you're on social media don't just put it all out there on social media and and berate on others who aren't quite as sustainable as you because that's not sustainable either you know and i think it's becoming more of a sustainable human being i think and so sustainability doesn't just come down to what we're recycling. It also comes down to how we can sustain life in a world of chaos, which goes back to the original conversation of breathwork meditation. And that's how you become sustainable. I guess you get behind as well cafes like this,

and organizations like this that are making the change. Instead of going down the road and grabbing a starbucks or a costa where you know they could have implemented a lot of this a long time ago yeah um and are still churning out the same plastic lids and plastic cups it's inexcusable really um i think if you have the money and you're going to go and buy a new car the obvious thing to do is steer away from you know the diesels and the petrels and start getting behind the ev the electric vehicle because it's only going to make it bigger and then eventually cheaper yeah sustainable fashion again yes you might spend a little bit more on it but those companies have to spend a hell of a lot more than you think to be able to transform themselves

from not being sustainable into a sustainable brand it changes at every level on a mechanical level down to packaging employment everything has to change for them so someone has to take the hit otherwise their company isn't here anymore so i guess you know if you can you get behind the businesses that are trying to be the change and you do what you'll be a bit at home as as you can and then go and become a member or a group like SAS, as I say. Or do some barefoot running. Then you don't even need to buy running shoes. Yeah. Yeah?

I like it. There you go. That's another way of doing it. You can walk around barefoot. Remove the chairs from your home. There you go. We covered that on the last one. So if you want more on that,

do listen to my previous conversation with Tony. Just minimalist living. There you go. That's a good last one so if you want more on that do you listen to my previous conversation with just minimalist living there you go that's that's that's a good way to stop isn't it what is minimalist living i think encompasses all of those things actually and remove attachment yeah sure um look tony we've covered so many different topics i really enjoyed our conversation did you guys enjoy the conversation? yeah it's it's it's really been awesome to actually do this in front of a really live intimate audience

I am actually planning at some point to take this podcast on the road this was a really nice sort of almost like warm up as it were so thank you guys for being here for that. Tony, you know how I like to end each of these podcasts. It's called Feel Better, Live More, because when we feel better in ourselves, we get more out of life. You mentioned so many tips today.

I wonder if you could leave the people in here today, but also the listeners at home, just some short, simple tips. I know you've covered those already maybe pick a few from um you know our physical health and pick a few maybe for sustainability simple tips that people can think about applying in their life immediately um i'm going to move away from the physical self i'm going to move back into the mind again and just i think leave you with what i discovered on tuesday which which was to trust the process, respect the process, be patient whilst in the process.

And when you finally figure out that it's all process, just be, there you go. Really hope you enjoyed that live conversation. As always, do think about one thing that you can take away and start applying into your own life. Thank you so much for listening. Have a wonderful week. Always remember, you are the architect of your own health. Making lifestyle changes

always worth it. Because when you feel better, you love it.