Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - #62 How to Accept Yourself in a World Striving for Perfection with Haemin Sunim

Episode Date: May 15, 2019

This week, I sit down with one of the most influential Zen Buddhist monks and teachers in South Korea, Haemin Sunim. He offers a unique perspective on vulnerability, authenticity and the journey to finding out who we really are. Haemin believes that we have become used to sacrificing the present for the sake of the future and that intentional living is key to happiness. He argues that only by accepting yourself – and the flaws which make you who you are – can you have compassionate and fulfilling relationships with your partner, family and friends. We discuss the importance of stealing back some down-time in our busy lives and learning to say no. Haemin reveals what he does each day to bring about happiness and calm in his own life as well as some brilliant tips that we can all put into practice to improve the way that we feel. This is an uplifting and thought-provoking conversation – I hope you enjoy it as much as I did! Show notes available at drchatterjee.com/62 Follow me on instagram.com/drchatterjee/ Follow me on facebook.com/DrChatterjee/ Follow me on twitter.com/drchatterjeeuk DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When we are revealing our deeper self, not just the bright side, but some of the dark side, then there's opportunity for your friends or lover to also reveal their true feeling. And that's where you begin to develop a deep and meaningful and loving relationship. Hi, my name is Rangan Chastji, GP, television presenter and author of the best-selling books, The Stress Solution and The Four Pillar Plan. I believe that all of us have the ability to feel better than we currently do, but getting healthy has become far too complicated. With this podcast, I aim to simplify it. I'm going to be having conversations with some of the most interesting and exciting people both within as well as outside the health space to hopefully inspire you as well as empower you with simple tips that you can put into practice immediately to transform the way that you feel. I believe that when we are healthier we are happier because when we feel better, we live more. Hello and welcome to episode 62 of my Feel Better, Live More podcast.

My name is Rangan Chastji and I am your host. Now, before we start today, just wanted to let you know that my most recent book, The Stress Solution, Four Steps to a Calmer, Happier, Healthier You, which has been a number one bestseller in the UK, is now available to purchase in the United States. You can get it from amazon.com in paperback or from Audible as an audiobook, which I am narrating. Each week, I try my best to keep things fresh on this podcast, talking about health with a wide variety of people from a range of different backgrounds.

Well, today I'm sharing with you a conversation, probably my first ever conversation with a monk. My guest today is Heyman Sunim, a Buddhist monk, teacher and author of the book, Love for Imperfect Things, How to Accept Yourself in a World Striving for Perfection. In today's podcast, Heyman shares what I think is a really unique perspective. He talks about intentional living as a key to happiness and how difficult situations can be a blessing in disguise, allowing us to realize just how precious life is. We also touch upon the importance of fully accepting ourselves, both our qualities and our flaws, in order to find happiness and calm, and how this is a critical step to take in order to truly have compassionate and fulfilling relationships with our partners,

our families, and our friends. We also discuss the importance of stealing back some downtime in our busy lives and learning to say no. Heyman shares some of the things that he does each day to bring about happiness and calm in his own life, as well as some tried and tested tips for us all. Really, this is a conversation about vulnerability, authenticity, and the journey of finding out who we really are. I'm sure you will find it as enjoyable as I did. Before we get started, I do need to give a very quick shout out to our sponsors who are essential in order for me to be able to put out weekly podcast episodes like this one. Athletic Greens continue their long-term support of my podcast. Now, I absolutely prefer that people get all of their nutrition from foods, but for some of us, it's not always possible. and digestive enzymes. So if you are looking to take something each morning as an insurance policy to make sure that you are meeting your own nutritional needs, I can highly recommend it. For listeners of this podcast, if you go to athleticgreens.com forward slash live more,

you will be able to access a special offer where you get a free travel pack box containing 20 servings of Athletic Greens, which is worth around £70 with your first order. You can check it out at athleticgreens.com forward slash live more. Now, on to today's conversation. Good morning, Hayden, and welcome to the Feel Better Live More podcast. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Hey, not at all. Thank you for making a bit of time in your busy schedule at the moment. You are promoting your book, Loveful Imperfect Things here in the UK, which I've got to say is an absolutely fantastic book. Every single page is full of amazing wisdom that seems to be speaking to me. So I want to thank you for writing such a phenomenal book.

Oh, thank you so much for your kind words. So, Hyman, I know you're a Buddhist monk. And for people listening to this who may not know what a Buddhist monk is, I wonder if you could explain, A, what you do on a day-to-day basis as a monk, but then also a little bit about your journey as to how you got here. as a monk, but then also a little bit about your journey as to how you got here. You know, when I was very young, I was, I had, you know, ultimate questions, you know, why am I here? You know, I felt as though I was just thrown into this world without providing us, providing me with some kind of, you know, reason. So I started reading a lot of books about philosophy and religion,

which led me to study religion in college. And then I wanted to really experience spiritual experience, the enlightenment, quote unquote. So I thought that maybe I should become a monk and get the full training. So I got into, I ordained, and then I received a formal, you know, training in a monastery. And but while I was living in a monastery, I realized that every Sunday, we had service for lay people. and after the service, and I have to sit down and have a tea with them. And then many of the members are actually much older than me,

like in their 40s and 50s and 60s. I'm like mid-40s now, but back then I was like 20-something. But they would, you know, tell me about their problems in their life, you know, the stress at work, you know, children, they do not listen to them, you know, the illness they might have. So even though my experience was very limited, I learned to listen and listen attentively and compassionately. And that really, you know, helped them quite well. So I decided maybe this is a very good practice as well. So I began to listen and try to offer some advice.

And that led me to doing a little bit of social media work. And then I was able to publish two of my books. Wow. Yes, some journey. And I believe you were at film school as well at some point. Yeah, I was interested in film, you know, when I was a teenager. Yeah. But I decided maybe that wasn't my path. Yeah, the question you sort of asked yourself, why am I here? I think that's a question that we are increasingly, that many of us are increasingly asking ourselves these days. I think as the world has got busier and more hectic and, you know, we're consumed by so many fantastic materialistic things that we

think are going to make us happy. And I think many of us are feeling this sort of sense of emptiness inside where many of us are now asking that question, why am I here? Is this a question that, you know, many people from around your country come to see you to ask for advice? You know, do you think this is the core question that actually all of us need to answer to have some sense of peace and happiness in the world. Yeah, you know, some philosophers describe that feeling, you know, as though you are waking up in a movie theater and then the movie has been playing for the last 10 minutes. So you are just waking up in the theater and trying to figure out where am I, you know, what kind of movie it is so I felt a little bit you know I was in the middle of the movie you know I was thrown into this drama of

life and try to figure out you know what is that which is you know looking at the film you know who's this person looking at this world and so I think at some point some people might really you know this big existential you know you know you know wondering however for majority of people who come and talk to me their concern is much more immediate and much more practical so they would know, ask me about problems at work, much more related to their relationship problems. So I try to combine both in my book. Yeah, you absolutely do.

And I just want to read a passage from page 136, because I think this summarizes so much of, you know, the sort of disharmony we're seeing, the disharmony that we're feeling. You've written this. We have become accustomed to sacrificing the present for the sake of the future. We consider it a matter of course that the present just has to be put up with until one day that bright future arrives. We've overlooked the importance of enjoying the journey while prizing only the destination. But in the course of our lives, there comes a time when we begin to doubt whether this present we are enduring will ever lead to the future of our dreams. Even if the dream comes true, will it be worth the sacrifice we made to our relationships and health and happiness in order to achieve it? And what if the dream we

achieve was never ours, but that of our parents or teachers? What if we were just measuring ourselves against society's yardstick of success? I think, Hayman, for me, that is such a profound paragraph, which really summarizes so much of what I see, so much of what I have felt at various times over the last 10 or 15 years. And this whole idea that many of us are just mirror reflections of the people we've grown up around, whether it's our parents, our teachers, our friends, and actually we're living the life that we think they want us to lead, rather than leading the lives that we want to lead. How can we start finding out what the life is that we wish to lead? Yeah, this is a really important question. while we were in school, high school, junior high school, elementary school,

they didn't really teach us how to become self-aware. They didn't teach us to be more mindful of what works for us and what does not work. Like under which circumstance I tend to thrive and enjoy versus which circumstance I feel dreaded and I don't like it. So, like, getting to understand, you know, who I am and what I actually am good at and enjoy, it takes some time for me to, for anybody to become aware of. for anybody to become aware of. However, as we get older and older, I realized that people become a little more... they are more like embracing themselves and becoming a little more relaxed

about who they are. And rather than, you know, asking, rather than trying to just answer to the demands of other people, they begin to own, you know, what they really desire. So it's a, you know, it's a process, I think. Have you got any tips on how people can start off on that process? Because for some people, they're locked in a certain cycle that they're, you know, they need to work in their job because their job is what pays their bills and their mortgage and feeds their family, yet they don't enjoy the job. And then let's say, because it's so stressful that at the weekend, they'll try and, you know, soothe the stress, let's say with a bottle of

wine on a Friday night on a Saturday night, because it sort of helps to numb, you know, many of the sort of stresses that they feel throughout the week. For those, you know, for many people, I think it's very hard to understand, well, how can I start to find out why am I here? I mean, what do you have some sort of simple steps that people can think about taking in order to start that process off? Let me just first answer, you know, your last question. That is, one of the reasons we are here is to realize who we are ultimately. However, we can also find that meaning while we are helping other people, especially in service of our loved one, you know.

So when we are bringing, supporting our family, for example, they gives us, you know, a sense of connection and then a deep love. And from that feeling of connections, we realize that, oh, I am maybe, you know, not an isolated, independent, you know, egotistic being, you know, actually, I might be interdependent. And maybe, you know, I am much more connected to this oneness of life, we call. However, you know, to get there, you know, some of the easy step that you can take is just ask yourself what it is that you actually desire. It can be a very simple thing. You know, I suggest in my book that, you know, when you go to a coffee shop, you know, with a group of friends, and they might be asking you, you know, what kind of coffee would you like, you know, if you are just agreeable and very uh quote-unquote good good boy

or good girl and you might not just express what you want instead you say oh i will just get what you want you know i will just get whatever you are going to have um so uh i would suggest that maybe we can learn to uh take a baby step that is to say oh i want you know chai latte for example so um just by owning you know your desire little by little uh you should be able to find out uh what works for you yeah i think that's a really good example and something that deeply speaks to me because i i know for you know a huge part of my life i I have been a people pleaser. I have never wanted to cause a fuss. If we were going out with a group of friends, people say, where do you want to eat tonight? I'm just like, anywhere you guys choose, no problem at all. And you end up turning up to

places that you don't even like. You can't even order anything that you want to eat because actually you're too fearful on one level to actually say what you want. And I guess I used to think that was a good quality, being a people pleaser, you know, keep everyone happy. But as I'm getting older, I'm realizing more and more that actually that quality in me or sort of that character traits, I should say, I didn't was helping me. I didn't was helping me understand who I am and what made me happy. So I think, you know, I think that's a really good starting point for people. Have you got any other examples like that that could, you know, speak to people who are struggling?

And we know that many people are struggling because, you know, certainly here in the UK, I'm not sure what it's like in your home country. But here in the UK, we say that about one in four people in any given year will have a mental health problem, which is a staggering statistic. And clearly there are many factors that are driving that. I don't think it's better diagnosed by doctors. as fine doctors, I think there is something inherently toxic in society with how we're living our lives, which is resulting in so many people suffering from mental health problems. And so I think, you know, understanding what we want and being able to verbalize, actually, this is what I want. It's quite a good step. Are there any other tips you have for people? You know, one of the things we can learn is to learn to say no. Just like you, I also tried to be a good boy and make everyone happy.

So I was a good son and good students and good coworkers, always saying yes to everything, all the demands that people were making. But at some point, I realized that, you know, I was becoming resentful, you know, why is that I am, you know, always getting end up getting all the difficult tasks, and nobody else is actually doing the work. So rather than just swallowing, you know, all the this feeling that I had, maybe i should have let them know you know maybe perhaps because they didn't know how i was feeling they would just keep pushing that work to me so i think it's a better for the relationship in the long run by letting your

partner or friends or co-worker know you know how and how it is working and it is not working. And if it's not working, then maybe having very honest conversation can open up the door. So I would say that if you feel that under some circumstance, whether you are at home or at work, you feel overwhelmed, then maybe why don't you sit down and express, you know, what is causing you to feel that way? And then maybe, you know, have an honest conversation. Yeah, I think that's something many of us struggle with, isn't it? That real authenticity, many of us are scared, we're afraid that actually if we tell our friends what we really think, We're afraid that actually if we tell our friends what we really think, maybe they won't be our friends anymore or maybe they'll be hurt.

And again, this is not a personal counselling session for me with you, but it sometimes feels like that because I think the themes you talk about are universal. And what's really interesting for me, Hayman, is that when I read your book and you are a monk, I'm a doctor. OK, so I'm seeing patients generally who are sick, who want help with their health. But there are so many similar themes that I've written about in my new book on stress that you've written about as a monk. interesting because you know you I guess are helping people to find out who they are live you know more authentic lives live happier lives but to think that health is separate from that is very short-sighted because of course they are linked so the things that you would be talking about in some ways are not dissimilar to the things I talk about in my as I say in my new book because I'd love to send you a copy actually, I talk about purpose and about how

when we don't have a strong sense of purpose in our lives, it's an inherently stressful life. And I've come up with a framework called the Live Framework to help people, you know, start to find that meaning and purpose in their lives. And it's just little baby steps. But one of them was, you know, it's L-I-V-E, the E is there for engaging with others. And that's something

that you were mentioning, you know, when we do things for other people, when we do things in service of other people, actually, we start to realize that actually, you know what, we are interdependent, we can't just live in our little silos and do things by ourselves. So I am, you know, I'm interested in your thoughts as to why you think in the 21st century a doctor like me is writing about similar concepts that you as a monk are also writing about. I think, you know, you and I have the same intention, that is people we encounter, whether It is people we encounter, whether it is in your doctor's office or whether it is in a monastery. We wish them to be healthy.

We wish them to be well and happy. And overall, they have a balanced life. So because we have that intention, from that intention, we are speaking the similar things. And I would love to read your book as well so I think what's really important is try to find the intention what do you intend to do, what do you want to

accomplish generally speaking, people are looking to contribute they want to be they want to do a little bit more than just, you know, out of selfish reason. Ultimately,

especially when you get ill or when you are, there is some turning point in your life, some of the difficult stuff just happen at work or in your personal life, then you pause

and then look back and then try to see, you know, what's the meaning of my life? You know, I think that is the opportunity for us to become spiritually mature and we can have a much deeper relationship with our close loved one. Yeah, there's so much I want to touch upon there. You said about setting your intention. The second part of that live framework I mentioned about was I for intention, do something each day with intent. And I try and make the case that actually,

if all you do is do one thing each day with real sort of mindful intent, whether it's, you know, making your cup of tea in the morning, instead of, you know, here in the UK, instead of just sort of popping our teabag in and actually mindlessly pouring the water in and actually checking our phone and our social media at the same time, I say, well, why not just two minutes a day, actually watch the steam coming out of the kettle, pour the water, watch the, the, watch the, um, watch the water in your mug change color as the water blends with that teabag, you know, really take it in because I sort of see if we can start paying attention to the small things, sometimes, actually, well, often that sort of extends to all the bigger things in life. So it's about taking those small steps. But the other thing you mentioned is that if you have a difficult experience in your life,

that's often, you know, a turning point that causes you to reflect. I know for me, when my, I used to be a carer for my dad for about 15 years and dad passed away, actually it's almost six years ago now. And really since my dad passed away, that was when everything started to change in my life because I suddenly had time that I didn't have before because every spare minute that I had before was taking was taken up caring for my father and helping to look after my family and I find that actually well I guess two questions Haman question number one do we as humans need things to get so bad you know something significant has to happen before we consider making significant change in our lives. That would be question number one. And I guess question number two is,

one of the things that I think is missing in the modern world is time. We're so busy that actually, you know, and we've eroded downtime out of our lives because anytime we have a bit of downtime, And we've eroded downtime out of our lives because any time we have a bit of downtime, we look at our phones, we consume email, we consume social media, we consume news. And actually, we've lost the ability to just sit and be. So two themes there. And I wonder if you could sort of share some of your thoughts on them. Yeah, wonderful questions again. again um the you know uh when we have a difficult um circumstance whether it's illness or whether it's some kind of you know tragedy or whether it's you just you know got laid off um then uh

it definitely you know makes you become you know reflective and try to look back and see you know, reflective and try to look back and see, you know, what my life has been, you know, and how I can live my life better with, you know, good intention. However, some people, they don't need that kind of tragedy. You know, they are just by nature, they are very spiritual. And that is, you know, a special blessing. However, you know, whether it is you are born with that kind of reflective quality or you are not born with it, at some point we do become ill because we are human beings. Therefore that kind of difficult situation can be a blessing in disguise. I know like one of my old friends,

he contracted HIV. And he told me that that was the biggest blessing in his whole life because he became much more healthier and regularly exercise and he realized how precious the life is and something like that. So, I mean, and also the second question is, I think the time is really, really, you know, you know, it's very valuable commodity and we often just took it for granted. And one of the ways to waste your valuable time is to just respond. You know, we just learn to respond. Like if there is a text message, then we respond. And we just learn to just, you know, passively just look and browse through, you know different uh websites and things like that and then we can just spend hours and hours doing that uh so what i would recommend is just rather than

just you know filling your life with the activity that that's only responding to somebody else's request or text message or you know demands uh why don't you uh start um initi, you know, demands, why don't you start initiating, you know, make a list of things that you want to do, rather than you just simply responding, you can actually initiate and get things done. And one of the ways to have those pressures time is to say no you know if somebody is just you know asking you to quickly respond like in email for example you can say I'm sorry but can I get back to you maybe tonight you know thereby you can actually have like one or two full hours just dedicated to yourself or to your children, for example. So rather than being constantly allowing yourself to interfere with other stuff, you can say for the next three hours, I'm going to just fully devote my time and my attention to this activity that I'm actively

initiating. Yeah, I think it's really, really good tips. It's how we start prioritizing our time and taking ownership of our time. One tip that some people use is to have an email autoresponder. So any email they receive, it will go back saying something like, for example, thank you for your email. Please note I only check email two times a day at 9am and at 3pm. I will endeavour to get back to you as soon as possible or something that you can personalise that works for you just as a way of sort of pre-setting the expectation on someone else, because I think many of us feel we're going to

let somebody else down. And I think that's quite a good tip. I think I first came across that tip from a chap called Tim Ferriss, who's got a really good podcast in America. And he talks about that as a way of just simply, you know, just educating those people around you that actually I don't respond back to email every single minute of the day. And, you know, I think often when we educate people around us, actually, they're okay, aren't they, about these things, because they learn to understand. But if you always react and respond straight away, you're almost training them to get, you know, to get an answer straight away, and then they'll get frustrated when they don't. So I think trying to take ownership of our time is super important, something I talk about a lot with my patients.

And I think, you know, even just scheduling things, scheduling the most important things in your day are really, really important. Because, you know, even if you just take five minutes every morning to sort of figure out, you know, what are the three or the five most important things I want to achieve today? And, you know, try and make sure you achieve them because I don't know what it's like. In fact, I'd love to know some of the differences between where you live and how we experience life in the UK. But over here, I would say that for many of us, our to-do lists are never, ever done these days. There is always something else to do. And so unless we take control of them and actually schedule and prioritize, I think there's always a sense of frustration that actually we haven't done what we needed to do. So are you seeing some similarities that you see here in the UK,

back in Seoul, where you live? Oh, absolutely. You know, we are living in the same, you know, capitalist society and with the same, with the same advancement of the technology, and people are sucked into this. But exactly like you said, when we are having more control of our life, much like in London, Seoul is increasingly becoming a very busy and technologically savvy city. So people are constantly having a lot of tasks to do, things like that.

However, if we have more control over our time or the things that we do that makes us feel happier you know so um like uh rather than being pulled into different activity uh and you are doing it almost unconsciously or subconsciously and at the end of the day and you look back and you see oh i don't know how my time just disappeared you know it is precisely because um uh we didn't set the you know to-do list like you just said um so having intentional living is the key to happiness yeah one very profound statement there um hey man you know a lot of people don't know what the day-to-day life of a monk looks like. And I'm interested as to some of the practices you put into your life on a daily basis to help

keep you calm so that you can live a happy and fulfilled life. And then also the follow-on from that is when you're on the road, like you are now, you're in London, you're doing events, you're doing PR to help promote your new book. Do you find it challenging when you're out of your own environment? And what sort of tips do you use on the road to help you? Yeah, that's a very good question, Stu. You know, back in home in Korea, as a monk, you know, I am either in a retreat, meditation retreat, or I work. I established a school called School of Broken Hearts in Seoul.

My first book, The Things You Can See Only When You Slow Down, it was sold like over 3 million copies in Korea. So I received a lot of attention. So I thought that, you know, maybe I should use this for the public good. So I realized that a lot of people are suffering quietly. And like, for example, when you are, you know, just diagnosed with cancer, you know, I realized that when we offer the class, that when we offer the class, people told me that, you know, they could not show how scared they were to their children, for example. And some of their best friends, they're all calling them and asking them, how are you? Are you okay?

Then you couldn't really tell them, you know, how terrible I feel now. So they ended up hiding their feeling. So when they were invited to have a session in our School of Broken Heart, they were able to express, they don't have to pretend anymore. It same thing, you know, also for the people who are going through, just got laid off, for example, you know, we have a program for that, or we have a program for people who just lost their family members. So whenever you're going through a difficult life, you can, I invite them to come and we do have a lot of free programs for that. Now it's not continued to grow and we have a two different center in Korea. So it takes up a lot of my time to be honest for that. However, you know, when I

am in the fall, I usually go to monastery and do the intensive meditation retreat, then I would do sitting meditation about 10 hours a day and in the company of other Buddhist monk. So that's pretty much, you know, my life in Korea. Yeah, sure. I mean, a couple of things there. You've opened a school of broken hearts and you bring together these communities of people, let's say parents who've lost children, people suffering from cancer, you know, whatever that community is, you bring them together. And, you know, is there something powerful for us as humans to actually be able to share our experience, share a similar experience that other people have gone through with other people? Does that in some way help us deal with it and process it? Yeah, absolutely.

You know, it is truly, you know, empowering because when you are, you know, together with other people who are going through a similar thing, your heart opens up and you don't have to hide this feeling anymore. And you can be true to yourself. And then by expressing your emotion

um they it becomes a you know um it heals you in a way and then you also see that other people are going through the similar thing and then this whole experience empowers you and then you begin to feel maybe i can get through this you, some of us already went through and they were telling me that it wasn't, you know, I still survive. So they, you know, find some courage there. So you don't have to suffer alone. Yeah, this is something I think that's one of the great things I think about social media is that it does help people develop and create little communities. So you can often find a, let's say, a Facebook group where there are other people who have shared the same experience that you have. And it's a way of communicating and connecting with other like minded people.

And I think as humans, we love that, don't we? Just to know that we're not alone, that actually someone else has experienced what we've experienced. I think that's we love that don't we just to know that we're not alone that actually someone else has experienced what we've experienced I think that's one key part of it but the other part of it is what you just mentioned you can actually you don't have to hide you can be yourself and I guess that's the whole theme really running throughout your work and your book is how can we be ourselves like really be our authentic selves and not you know put on this mask every day with the people around us yeah and then when we are you know taking off our mask and then try try to become vulnerable and just show our genuine self and that's when we establish deeper you know

relationship the relationship between your husband or wife or boyfriend, girlfriend or your co-worker, best friend. When we are revealing our deeper self, not just the bright side, but some of the dark side, then there's opportunity for your friends or lover to also reveal their true feeling. for your friends or you know lover to also reveal their true feeling and that's where you begin to develop a deep and meaningful and loving relationship yeah absolutely and in fact you mentioned relationships in your book um i can't quite find the page now actually but what was really interesting was something really spoke to me when i read it a few days ago i was just i was at an airport waiting for a flight and um i opened book. And this is what I find with your book actually, is that I just, instead of reading it from start to finish, what I do is I just open it on any given day. And there is just wisdom there that seems to speak to me, whatever I'm feeling at that day,

which is quite incredible. But I think it's testament to how many of the themes you write about are universal and are probably affecting each and every single one of us. But you mentioned about relationships and how important they are. I think you said something about how the main issue that you see in relationships is communication. And when that communication goes, that's when the relationships go. I wonder if you could just elaborate on that a little bit. Yeah, there are like different levels of communications. And we can just communicate, just letting your family member just know about facts, you know, like, for example,

you know, what time are you coming home? I say, Oh, 6pm. You know, what did you have for lunch? I had sandwich. This is just, you know, you are just communicating based on facts. However, we long for deeper communications, not just the facts. We want to hear what they think about things and we want to that level of feeling that's when we you know are really exposing our true self to other people so um i think we have to be bold to be able to uh express uh how we feel uh sometime in our relationship yeah i guess it's really echoes what we were talking about before right at the start of this conversation about time you mentioned actually we need to not just communicate about facts with our partner or you know all those sort of other relationships that mean something to us and that could be friends as well as our partners um but in order to do that we need time and time is something that i see we've got less and less of in the modern world. And actually, many of the times we actually just

do have that communication where it's just like, oh, who's picking the kids up? Well, I am. Okay, fine. What's for dinner tonight? Okay. And then once the kids are in bed, everyone goes, well, not everyone, but many of us go on our own customized devices. So we can see our own emails. We can have our own curated feed on social media. we can personalize and watch our own TV shows. And our partners can watch their own TV shows on their device. Whereas, you know, maybe 15, 20 years ago, even something in the evening, like watching television, which may not be the most mindful task, but at least in the past, people would have to compromise. You know, you'd have to say, okay, what do you want to watch? Or what do you want to watch? Okay. And you collectively agree that we're

going to watch the same show. And I just think there is something that, this is something that has literally been eroded out of our lives. This, you know, this kind of, you know, this idea that we have to compromise a little bit. We have to share something. I think technology plays a huge role here, actually. I'm not here to demonize technology. I'm here to sort of explain that from my perspective, we're not all of us utilizing technology in the best ways that are going to really, really help us.

And so I absolutely agree. Relationships need that proper time. And so here in the West, we've got this term called date night. Do you have that term in Korea? We don't have the term, but I understand what that means. Yeah. And I think it's a relatively new phenomena that's really indicative of the fact that we don't have times with our partner. We don't have time with our partners anymore. the fact that we don't have time with our partners anymore. And we're just so, so busy that we actually have to put in our relationships a date night where we actually block everything

else out and actually spend time together. And you know what? Five, 10 years ago, I thought it was a bit of a cliche. I thought, well, who needs date nights in their relationship? But I've got to be honest, now I can absolutely see that it's part of that intentional living. It's part of actually prioritizing your relationship. And no, it is important. If I don't spend a bit of time each week, or hopefully every day, but certainly each week nourishing my relationship, actually it's going to start withering. Right, absolutely. I think what you just touched upon is very significant in any kind of human relationship. You know, you can gather, you can get together with your friends and then end up having very superficial, you know, conversations.

Showing only the good parts about you, you know. I got promoted, you know, things are going well, our kids are doing well, things like that. I mean, if it's the case, then it is very fortunate, that is, and we can celebrate how great things are going. On the other hand, sometimes we do have a darker side, in a side that we cannot reveal too easily. However, if you do, then it brings the people closer. Like, for example, you know, one of my friends just recently texted me from the US. He told me that he made a mistake at work, and he's afraid that, you know, he may get fired. So he was really, you know, going through emotional difficulty. But when he revealed that to me, you know, he invited more compassion from me. You know, I immediately called him and have a long, deep conversation

and try to listen to him attentively and then just let him know that, you know, he doesn't have to go through alone. And that conversation brought us really, really close. So I think we shouldn't be afraid to say how we feel and give time and attention to our friend or our loved one. I think that is a really valuable thing to do in our modern time. Yeah, absolutely. And we have touched a little bit on social media in our modern time yeah absolutely and you know we have touched a little bit on social media in this conversation i know you have a huge social media profile and um you know from what i can see you're actually trying to use that platform to do good and really you know raise awareness um for people to help them live happier healthier lives which is

phenomenal but i think one of the problems i see on social media is this whole idea of what we call perfectionist presentation where we present the most perfect part of our lives for other people to consume do you see a problem with that yeah you know i jokingly talked about one incidence that i remember i was putting on one photo of me, like a climb up to the beautiful mountain nearby Vancouver, Canada. I went there and but in order to get to that beautiful part, I have to, you know, climb up, you know, for about four hours. And I have to, you know, fight with the flies. There were a lot of flies and then by the time when I got there I was so exhausted and I was super hungry and yet you know when I took the photo I was smiling you know so I was looking as though I was having the time of my life

however the truth was I was really miserable you know in my body wise uh physically feeling um so uh oftentimes we forget that uh when we looked at our friends of you know happy you know photo you know on facebook or twitter or instagram and we imagine that they are having a great time and how come I'm not having a great time, you know? And you ended up comparing yourself to your friends. However, we may not know the real truth behind the photos. So, you know, we should always keep that in mind whenever we look at other people's social media account. Yeah, but one of the hard things I think is that our brains are always responding to the information that it's being fed. And so even if your rational brain knows actually this is not real, this is just one component of their life. I think ultimately,

if you spend considerable amounts of time on social media and you are consuming these, you know, this perfectionist presentation, I think many of us really suffer with our mental health from that because even though we rashly know that it's not real, actually, our brain often thinks that it is real. And then, you know, we start to subconsciously start comparing our life, our mundane life compared to what we perceive as this really exotic and exciting life. And so I kind of feel, you know, I do use social media. I've really changed my relationship with it over the last years. I use it a lot less. I'm very conscious with when I go on it. I try my best not to look at it first thing in the morning or last thing at night. I don't always manage to

do that. But I find that when I do that, when I can actually safeguard the first part of the day in the morning and the last part of the day in the evening and sort of surround myself with calm, I find I'm much happier, much less stressed, much more productive. And I think, you know, we can sort of segue from there into what do you do as a monk at the start of your day and at the end of your day? I appreciate that you meditate for, when you're at home, you meditate for 10 hours a day, which is simply incredible for someone like me to hear because you do 10 hours a day. Many of my patients struggle to do 10 minutes a day. So why do you think that is, number one, that we struggle so much with this concept of meditation? And then if you don't mind sharing, you know, what are the sort of things you do right at the start of the day,

right at the end of the day that we might be able to learn from um there are three things that i do um oh by the way i do struggle you know when i do 10 hours a day meditation uh because uh you know i'm in the monastery and everybody have to has to you know participate that's why i was you know getting better and better at it um but during the you know normal day like today for example you know uh there are three things that i do first is you know i do a bit of meditation like you described so when i get up in the morning you know before touching my cell phone or computer i would like to just sit and just enjoy the you know calmness and see whatever comes up in my mind and try to feel the breathing you know because if you really feel the breathing uh the breath actually makes you feel alive you know makes you realize how you are dependent upon this, the air that is enveloping the entire earth,

how much you are interconnected. And also, just by breathing deeply makes you feel much more peaceful and happy. That's what I do in the morning. And then I, second thing that I do is I, And then the second thing that I do is I love to walk. So I always find myself going out and then just walking around, especially in a beautiful park. And then when I see something beautiful like trees or birds or whatever, and I secretly also bless them. You know, may you be happy. May you be healthy. May you be peaceful. may you be healthy, may you be peaceful,

may you be always protected. So then I will go around and if I see other, you know, unhappy people, then I try to bless them, you know, secretly, you know, may you be happy, you know, so that I feel much more connection to that being. And then at night, right before I go to sleep, to that being. And then at night, right before I go to sleep, I try to pray, actually, you know. Whenever you think about either it's your God or, you know, deity, it is usually idealized way. So, like a model that you want to aspire to become. Like, for example, you know, when I pray to Munjusri Bodhisattva, Bodhisattva Munjusri is in Buddhism, is the Bodhisattva of wisdom. So I aspire to become as wise as the Bodhisattva. So if you have somebody you deeply admire and respect, it can be just a real human being. It can be your father or it can be your hero, you know, somebody that you deeply respect,

Mother Teresa, or, you know, anybody that you really, you know, love, have a deep affection. And then what happens is the more you think about this person, slowly you begin to resemble, you begin to emulate this person. and as we are thinking about great quality of that person uh slowly we becoming more and more like the person so i think it's a very you know important that we do have some sense of um respect and admirations for uh people who we like to be. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I think, you know, those three simple tips that you do are things that we can all really start to apply in our own life.

You know, meditating or doing some deep breathing for a period of time first thing in the morning, going for a walk every day, I think is something that we can all try and put into our own lives. And I love this idea that when you go out, you're sort of blessing the birds or someone who looks unhappy. You're sort of, you know, in your head, you're going sort of may they be happy. And it reminds me a bit of something I wrote about called loving kindness meditation. And there's many ways to do loving kindness meditation, of course. the the sort of methods i was reading about is how you you know you just you you wish happiness

on random people or people you don't even like or people actually you've had a problem with in the past you actually try and wish happiness and good fortune on them and showing the changes that occur inside us when we do that so these are quite simple things that actually really don't cost any money do they they're very accessible to all of us which is what i love about them yeah you know i i talk about in my two books about that as well i mean i think it's very important that um when we have this intention um like for example uh sometime i do bless people you know who are causing me a lot of, you know, trouble, a lot of emotional pain, for example. The reason why I'm doing that is because those people are treating me badly,

because they are unhappy, you know, if they were really happy, then of course, their happy energy, they will try to make me happy. But precisely because they are in a very difficult situation, maybe emotionally or physically or financially, you know, they are, that is causing, you know, that those people to make me, you know, feel really difficult and unhappy. So I bless them to be happy. Another thing is, as we are blessing those people who are giving us a lot of difficult time, you know, because precisely because I have already practiced blessing, sending them goodwill, I feel much more comfortable, you know, looking at them, you know, I feel much more at ease. And interesting thing is that person can easily also sense that and because of like a subtle difference attitude or tone of my voice change.

And that also invites him or her to behave a little bit kinder to me. So I would highly recommend that. Yeah, that's a great tip and something I think we could all do with following, particularly with those people in our lives who we might find frustrating or irritating. I think that's a really refreshing way to look at it. And it's something, you know, certainly on a personal level, I've been applying in my own life.

It's something that I've been applying a lot on social media. And what I mean by that is if people are sort of attacking you or being unkind to you, instead of taking it personally, I try and get into, I try and look at it with compassion and think, okay, they're clearly, this thing's going on in their life and they're sort of taking it out on me. And it's, you know, really trying to reframe the whole situation, the whole relationship, I think is a very useful way for us, I think, to be happier, actually, in many ways.

Heyman, I know you're on a busy tour, so I don't want to take up too much more of your time. But I think one of the key themes that's there in your book is what if being yourself is enough? And you really talk about this whole idea that it's only when we accept ourselves and our own flaws, can we then have really compassionate and fulfilling relationships with our partners, our family and our friends? What do you mean by that? You know, and how do we go about accepting ourselves with our flaws? You know, that's a big question for such a small timeframe to answer. No, no, no. I mean, it's a, you know um it's a wonderful question actually uh when i first became a monk i had this idealized you know image of perfect monk you know so when i met my master you know like my mentor who's gonna guide me and help me you know uh train me. I was hoping that my mentor, my master will be more like my idealized image of

perfect monk. My idealized image of perfect monk is somebody who's very serious and dedicated to meditation and impart, you know, wisdom to me. And, you know, however, when I met my master, he wasn't exactly what I had in mind. You know, he makes joke all the time. He was funny and he also has some hot temper. So he would get angry, especially if I don't answer things very quickly. So I was very perplexed. I thought that monk shouldn't be that angry. So, and then at that time, I remember, you know, one of my monk buddy, you know, friend,

who became ordained around the same time, he invited me to his own temple. And I went there and had an opportunity to have a dinner with him and his master. And then I realized that his master was exactly, you know, the image that I had, you know, perfect, you know, serious, dedicated meditator, always imparting good, you know, wisdom to me and to his disciple. So for the moment, I was jealous. I thought, oh, gosh, you know, I wish there's a way that I can switch my mentor. You know, I wish I can reassign, you know. However, 10 years later, I met my monk friend again out on the street in Seoul and I was very happy to see him.

So I asked him, oh, long time no see. How are you? How things are going? And how's your master? And then he said that, well, I am no longer in touch with my master. And I was very, very surprised when he told me that. So I asked him why, you know, he's perfect, you know, why? And then he said that because he was perfect, you know, he demanded every disciple he had to be perfect, just like him. He always, you know, reprimand them, you know, if they were to do something, you know, not good and things like that. So it ended up hurting them, you know, psychologically. And then at that point, I realized that, you know, my master wasn't bad at all, you know. Actually, because he was full of, you know, joy and always making, you know, jokes, he also was fully aware of his own imperfections.

And because he was fully aware of his own imperfections, whenever I was committed any kind of, you know, wrongdoings, wrongdoings, he was willing to forgive me. And we could have much more deeper relationship because he knew his own darkness side. And then he was able to embrace that. And because of this wonderful trait that he had, he was willing to accept any kind of monk who went through difficulty or somebody who's scandalous, for example. Then they would come to our temple and live together. I think by accepting our own shortcoming, I think it makes us a real human being. And that opens a door to become closer, you know, with people around us and have a loving relationship. Yeah, I think that's a lovely place to sort of finish the podcast on. I've got to say,

I think trying to accept ourselves with all our qualities, but also our flaws, I think is a really critical, you know, critical thing for us to do. A really important piece if we're going to actually get that sort of true calm within us and live, you know, our best lives and the happiest lives that we can. I think your book, Love for Imperfect Things, actually is a great way to help us do that. There is so much actionable wisdom in there. So I really do want to thank you again. I've not actually read your first book, but I'm going to try and get hold of it now. So I'm sure there'll be lots of tips in that one as well. Hey, man, look, just before you go, the goal of my podcast is to help inspire

people to be the architects of their own health. And I wonder if in all your years of practicing as a monk, are there three or four top tips that you can give the listener that they might be able to think about applying in their life right now to help improve the way that they feel you know like one of the things that uh that i always remind our um readers or in anybody who comes to my lecture is that you don't have a happy life just by thinking about happy things. You need to move. Your body needs to, you need to start moving your body and start engaged with the, you know, world just by thinking that, you know, I'm going to change my attitude and think about

good things, then maybe good things will follow. Surely it's going to help. However, only when we move our body and get engaged, then, you know, we can actually change our life. So for example, people who are depressed, somewhat unhappy, you somewhat unhappy about the situations, then I would recommend that, especially when you are having difficulty in relationships, rather than trying to constantly think about these things, just take a walk around and just move your body. And just, you know, move your body. You can do yoga or you can run. You can do swimming. Anything that's going to help you. So move your body as much as possible is one of your tips.

Right. When we have a nimble and very soft body, that's when we begin to think very flexibly you know when our body is stiff and tense then our mind is also become it becomes very tense and not relaxed um what's the other thing that i can think about well i think the other ones probably the ones that you said before the three things you do every day. You know, when you mentioned your meditation, your walking and some sort of praying. Yeah, praying or this gratitude that you do for, you know, the birds and people around you. I think those are probably some really good tips. Right. And also maybe, you know, one last thing I can say is the write the gratitude journal.

You know, a lot of psychologists, they talked about it. And as I was doing it, I decided that I should write five grateful, grateful things every day. And I realized that, you know, it's not too difficult to write first, second, third. But fourth and fifth one was very difficult for me. So what happened was the next day I was looking for what are those, you know, grateful things in my life right now. So during the daytime, I beginning to look for grateful things. And then I realized that this can be a habit. You know, once this become a habit, rather than focusing on all the problem

that I need to solve during the daytime, I could zero in on all the wonderful things, grateful things in our lives. So I would highly recommend that, you know, before you go to sleep, you know, write down very quickly. It would take only like two, three minutes, you know, five you go to sleep, you know, write down very quickly. It would take only like two, three minutes, you know, five grateful things every day, and then begin to look for those

things during your daytime. I mean, I think that's a great tip. That is really speaking to me at the moment. So straight after we finish this call, I'm going down to one of my local shops. I'm going to buy a new journal, and I am committing to you now that I'm going to try and write five things every day that I'm grateful for and I'll let you know how I get on. Thank you for that tip. Excellent. Thank you. And whoever listens to this, may you be happy, may you be healthy, may you be peaceful, may you be always protected. Eamon, thank you for your time today and thank you for joining me on my podcast. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day. That concludes this week's episode of the Feel Better Live More podcast.

I really enjoyed my conversation with Heyman and I can honestly say I felt really calm after we had finished chatting. had finished chatting. For me, one of the main take-home points from my conversation was this idea of sitting and enjoying the calmness at the start of the day before doing anything else, before touching your mobile phone. This is something that I try my best to do on most days and if you have never tried starting your day like this, I would highly encourage you to give it a go. Of course, there may be other tips that also resonated with you. As always, my advice would be to try and identify one or two things that you heard in our conversation that you think you can start to apply in your own life. If you want to read more about Heyman and his work, do go to the show notes page for this week's podcast episode, which is drchastity.com forward slash 62,

where you will find links to Heyman's books, press articles, blogs, and videos. Of course, do let Heyman and I know what you thought of today's show. Heyman has a remarkable social media presence with over 1 million Twitter followers, half a million Facebook ones, and a growing presence on Instagram.

Don't forget to tag both Heyman and myself when you post and if you can use the hashtag FBLM. If you want to read more tips on how to live a happier and calmer life, do consider picking up a copy of my latest book, The Stress Solution. It is full of practical and accessible tips to help you cope with the constant busyness and overload of 21st century living. There are also plenty of actionable tips on health in my first book, The Four Pillar Plan, which is available to order all over the world now and has been released in America with a different title, How to Make Disease Disappear. All of my books are available in paperback, ebook and as audiobooks. I know that audiobooks have proved really popular with many of you who listen to my podcast. If you enjoy my

weekly shows, one of the best ways that you can support them is by leaving a review on whichever platform you listen to podcasts on. You can also help me spread the word by taking a screenshot right now and sharing with your friends and family on your social media channels. Or you can do it the good old-fashioned way and simply tell your friends and family about the show. I really do appreciate your support. A big thank you to Richard Hughes for editing the podcast and to Ali Ferguson and Liam Saunders for the theme tune. That is it for today. I hope you have a fabulous week. Make sure that you have pressed subscribe and I'll be back in one week's

time with my latest episode. Remember, you are the architects of your own health. Making lifestyle change is always worth it because when you feel better, you live more. I'll see you next time.