Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - 8 Hidden Habits To Live Your Healthiest, Happiest and Most Fulfilled Life with Robin Sharma #471

Episode Date: July 16, 2024

Is it time to redefine what it means to live a rich life? In a world where we're constantly bombarded with images of material success, it's easy to fall into the trap of comparing ourselves to others and believing that more money means more happiness. But what if there's more to wealth than just money?   What if the richest people aren't those with the most money but those with the most meaningful lives? This week, I'm thrilled to welcome Robin Sharma to my Feel Better Live More podcast. Robin is a globally respected humanitarian who has devoted over a quarter of a century to helping humans realise their native gifts. One of the top leadership and personal mastery experts in the world, he advises companies such as NASA, Nike, Microsoft, Starbucks, Yale University and the Young Presidents’ Organization.  He’s the author of several international bestsellers, including The 5AM Club and The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari. In his latest book, The Wealth Money Can’t Buy: The 8 Hidden Habits to Live Your Richest Life, Robin aims to change our perception to include not just financial success but seven other essential forms of wealth, too. In our conversation, we explore Robin’s concept of the ‘eight forms of wealth’, including physical and mental wellness, rich family relationships, fulfilling work and strong community connections. We discuss why traditional self-help approaches often fall short, particularly in the realm of personal growth and happiness, and how society’s obsession with hustle culture and toxic positivity has exacerbated the problem of burnout and dissatisfaction. Robin is perhaps best known for his thriving 5AM Club community and in this episode, he shares insights on the power of intentional morning routines, including his ​​five-question morning maximiser, and the value of continuous learning. We delve into practical strategies for implementing these principles in various life situations, even for those of us who have busy schedules or family responsibilities. We also touch on the importance of nature, disconnecting from technology, and finding moments to savour in our daily lives. We explore the value of service, small acts of kindness, and how we can all live our lives to the fullest. Robin’s perspective on what it truly means to live a rich life is a powerful reminder for us all and his approach offers a much-needed alternative to the endless pursuit of material success, showing us how to create a life that's ‘wealthy’ in all the ways that matter most. I hope you enjoy listening. Thanks to our sponsors: https://airbnb.co.uk/host https://calm.com/livemore https://vivobarefoot.com/livemore https://drinkag1.com/livemore Show notes https://drchatterjee.com/471 DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or qualified healthcare provider. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

There's so many times when we get a great idea and we say, oh, that's a great idea, I'll try. Read this book, watch this film, try this routine, seize this opportunity. Huh, good, I'll try. I'll try are two dirty words, I believe. I'll try means I'm not really interested. I'll try means I'm scared. I'll try means I won't hold myself accountable. I'll try means I have an escape route. So I would encourage anyone, strip out I'll try.

If you're not interested, don't do it. But if you're interested, get the job done. Hey guys, how you doing? Hope you're having a good week so far. My name is Dr. Rangan Chatterjee and this is my podcast, Feel Better, Live More. So this episode is the last one in the current series of my podcast. If you are a long time listener of my show, you will know that every summer we stop this podcast for about six weeks. Now there are many reasons for this but really the main one is because the summer is a time of year where as a family we try as much as possible to prioritise undistracted time together. My wife is the senior producer and so very very involved just me, with the weekly production of each episode. So for us,

as a family, it is really important to have some time each year when we stop. And because we have children who are on long school holidays, the summer serves as the perfect time. Now, I'm well aware that many of you really look forward to each week's episode and that this podcast has earned a place in your weekly schedule. I honestly am truly grateful for that. Do not forget that there are over 400 episodes in the back catalogue. All of them are just as relevant today as they were when they were first released. So perhaps this summer you can take this little break as an excuse to dive into the back catalogue and listen to some episodes you may have missed

first time rounds, or perhaps revisit some of your favourites. And honestly, I think so many of them are well worth a second listen. When you go back and listen to some of the older conversations, you'll often hear different things, and the ideas will land in a different way, because you are different. And of course, we hear ideas differently depending on what else is going on in our lives. We will, as always, launch the brand new season of this podcast at the start of September.

And so for the final episode before the summer break, I wanted to leave you with a conversation that will have you reflecting on what it truly means to live a rich life. In a world where we are constantly bombarded with images of material success, it's so easy to fall into the trap of comparing ourselves to others and believing that more money means more happiness. But what if there's more to wealth than just money? What if the richest people aren't those with the most money, but those with the most money, but

those with the most meaningful lives? This week, my guest is Robin Sharma. Robin is a globally respected humanitarian who has devoted over a quarter of a century to helping humans realize their native gifts. He's regarded as one of the top leadership and personal mastery experts in the world. He advises companies such as NASA, Nike, Microsoft, and Yale University. And he's also the author of several international bestsellers, including The 5am Club, The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari, and his very latest one, The Wealth Money Can't Buy, The Eight Hidden Habits to Live Your Richest Life. Now, in our conversation, we explore Robin's concept of the eight forms of wealth, including physical and mental wellness,

rich family relationships, fulfilling work and strong community connections. We discuss why traditional self-help approaches often fall short, particularly in the realm of personal growth and happiness, and how society's obsession with hustle culture and toxic positivity has exacerbated the problem of burnout and dissatisfaction. Robin also shares his insights on a number of different topics, including the power of morning routines, the value of continuous learning, the transformative effects of nature, the importance of being of service, and why being able to say the little things each day is so important if we're going to live our lives to the fullest. And in a world that is constantly asking us all to work more, buy more, and do more, I think Robin's perspective on what it truly means to live a rich life

is a powerful reminder for us all. Robin, you have been in the self-help world for several decades now. And I wanted to really understand from you, in your view, what are some of the toxic ideas that are perpetuated in that world that you think are unhelpful? Getting dangerous right from the first minute. No, it's an excellent question. Well, I think my previous book, Before the Wealth Money Can't Buy, there was a chapter in it called The Big Lie of Positive Thinking. Yeah. And I think our world has in self-help sold us.

Just be positive all the time. If you're experiencing heartbreak, you're going through a tragedy, look for the gold. I think that's very dangerous. dangerous. It's definitely toxic optimism because what you then do is you swallow the native feelings that surface in a difficult time, such as anger and disappointment and shame and sorrow and frustration. So I think positive thinking is incredibly important, but not at the expense of ignoring the human feelings that come up in whatever the situation is. So that would be one. the human feelings that come up in whatever the situation is. So that would be one.

I think another point that might be a little unhelpful is there might be an inflated sense of what a human being can achieve. I mean, I really am a possibilitarian. I feel deeply about the potential of human beings, but we can't be great at everything. The beings, but we can't be great at everything. The good news is we can all be great at something. We can all install new belief systems, better habits, better routines, better rituals, and live far greater lives. But that doesn't mean we're all going to be able to do everything. So I think that'd be the second belief. The third belief would be, I think sometimes people get addicted to self-help. It becomes like a drug of choice. Let me go to the next event. Let me sign up for the next

digital course. Let me read the next book without taking great information and then executing on it and making it automatic and a part of your way of being. I think often what we do is we pick up these escapes to avoid dealing with our wounds and our limitations and looking in the mirror. And self-help can be an addiction that causes us to avoid dealing with reality. Yeah. I appreciate you sharing that. It's interesting as I was listening to your answers there, it feels as though those ideas or a lot of them have merit, but not when taken to an extreme. So being able to be positive is a good thing, but not if you're expecting yourself to have positive thoughts

every single hour of the day. I think you mentioned, look for the gold in tragedy. Well, I think certainly in your new book, The Wealth Money Can't Buy, there are elements of how we can use hard times in life to grow. But I think what you're saying there is that we have to acknowledge that this is hard. This is a tragedy. We need to take a bit of time first before we start looking for the gold. Is that what you're getting at? Yeah. So what I'm saying is our society has almost told us not to feel. And so Rangan, what we do is we are a species that live in our heads. And if you will live in your head, well, then you're going to have war and selfishness and egoism. But if you have a strong head, Nelson Mandela said it very well. He said,

a strong heart and a clear head is a formidable combination. So positive thinking is absolutely important. But before that, let's say someone's going through a divorce, an illness, a loss. If you just shift, like the positive thinking books say, shift to positive thinking, do your gratitude lists and be happy, happy, happy. But you've got a broken heart. So what I'm suggesting, and it's contrary to society, and now, of course, people are suggesting it now, which is wonderful, but I'm suggesting if you have a broken heart, don't run away from it, run into it. Alanis Morissette, old song, quick's way out is in. So go into the broken heart. And I've had a broken heart. And what I've learned is pain is an incredible purifier. And if you actually build intimacy with the pain and the sorrow or the

anger, or let's say you're an entrepreneur and you're feeling jealous, scrolling and seeing other people's amazing lives. Don't shift to positive thinking. That's called denial. You'll swallow and repress those emotions, and they build into what I call a field of hurt, which leads to, as you know better than most, it leads to inflammation, it leads to dis-ease, etc. pain, whether it's jealousy or sadness. And then a time will come where you're releasing the emotions and then almost natively and naturally, you can go to positivity, but it will come as a process. It reminds me a bit of a conversation I had a few weeks ago now with Professor Fred Luskin. So he is in charge of the Stanford University Forgiveness Project. He's been studying forgiveness for over 30 years and has shown in his research that being able to move on,

let go of the past and forgive can help us reduce blood pressure, lower anxiety, depression, help reduce our perception of pain, can help improve the intimacy in our relationships. But importantly, what he said is that you can't rush it. You have to feel the pain first. And sometimes it's going to take a year or two years for some of these big traumatic events for people to actually process and feel it before you can actually move on to the next stage, which is

learning the skill of letting go. So I think that was quite nice how it echoed what you're saying as well. Absolutely. There's an idea that I think is very powerful and hopefully it'll bring value to your millions of viewers from around the world, which is, heal what hurts you so you don't bleed on people who did not touch you. Heal what hurts you so you don't bleed on people who did not touch you. And if you're an entrepreneur, this is relevant. In productivity, we often don't talk about forgiveness.

But if you haven't forgiven someone, one of the first chapters of The Wealth of Money Camp, I be not a resentment collector. If you're full of resentment, well, then you have a barrier and a block between intimacy with your creativity, productivity, and prosperity. You can learn all the productivity hacks and join the 5 a.m. club and have schedules. But if deep within you haven't worked on your emotional architecture through the work we're talking about, you will always sabotage yourself. And I think that's one of the missing links for elite performance. So many pundits say mindset is everything. Mindset is everything. I think mindset is something, but in my work, I teach the four interior umpires. There's mindset, which is our psychology. Of course, that's important. You're absolutely right. Your deepest beliefs drive your daily behavior. And often it's our subconscious beliefs

that are early childhood programs. Yeah. Second interior empire, our heart set. We have a psychology, but as a human being, you and I have an emotional life. So let's purify and work on our heart set so there's more awe, wonder, grace, celebration for other people. After mindset and heart set, there's health set.

We have a physicality, energy, longevity, vitality. And then the fourth interior empire, soul set. We have a spiritual life, whether people want to acknowledge it or not. And the good news is more people in the world are embracing spirituality. And I'm not at all speaking about religion. I'm simply saying when we were born, we have a heroic self. This is our truest self. This is the voice of wisdom. This is how resilient we are. This is our loving heart. This is intimacy with our gifts and our talents. We have a greatness inside of us and society almost stuffs it out of us or programs it out of us. And so soul set is simply building a greater relationship with your heroic self and starting to turn down the voice of your egoic self. And when you work on the four interior empires, you build the relationship with yourself and your relationship

with yourself drives every other relationship in your life. Is that one of the other sort of toxic ideas that out there that the self-help world sometimes perpetuates this idea that you can always do more, you know, you can be more productive, you can work harder, you can hustle through, because in some ways, that's going to feed our egoic self and not our heroic self, right? Yeah, absolutely great connection. And I wish I had said that when you would ask me, what are some of the toxic beliefs. I think hustling, grinding your way to world class is a deeply toxic belief. Let's go to the science.

If you look, for example, at the work of the Energy Project, they have found the most productive people are actually like sprinters versus marathoners. The research actually shows the most productive people work in intense bursts of elite performance. And guess what they do after that? Rest and recover. And you're a scientist, for sure. You know that in rest, non-working, in rest and recovery and true recreation, when memories are crystallized. That is when new connections are formed that solve great problems. We know that there's a mechanism when you sleep where the brain almost washes itself.

So rest is not a luxury, rest is a necessity. So this hustle and grind thing is dangerous and the wealth money can't buy speaks to a key point, which is our society has us hustling, grinding to make more money, to get more things, to get more likes. And it has so many of us climbing a mountain that I humbly predict at the end of a quarter, end of a year, end of a career, end of a lifetime, will make us feel we spent our finest hours climbing the wrong mountain. Is that a mistake you made earlier on in your life? Yes. I was a litigation lawyer. I became a litigation lawyer because the world in many ways suggests if you become a professional, you're going to wake up happy. So I did a law degree.

I did a master's of law degree. I was working at a big firm. I was making great money. I had a beautiful car, beautiful home. And the only problem is I'd wake up and I'd look in the mirror and I didn't like the person who was looking back at me. And what's the point of worldly success if you lose your soul in the process? Makes me think of what Jim Carrey said. I wish everyone could be rich and famous so they'd realize it doesn't make a difference. Yeah. It's a powerful phrase from Jim Carrey. I wonder sometimes, because I've been talking about this idea for a while now as well, that success is not necessarily the same thing as happiness. It can be if you're very intentional, but often

if you get seduced by culture's definition of success, perhaps family, perhaps societal's definition, you can often get that level of success. Sounds like you did as a lawyer, yet you find that there's something missing. So it was fascinating for me as to where do these ideas come from? And I wonder about your sort of childhoods. Where were your parents from? Were they from a different country? My dad went to medical school in Agra. Yeah, in India. In India. So he's from the north of India. My mom is from Nairobi. They met in East Africa. I was born in East Africa. And yeah, a family that valued a lot of achievement. And so that Jim Carrey phrase, I wonder sometimes, is it easy to understand that when you've got the success and can say then,

oh, this doesn't make you happy? Because I'm just trying to play devil's advocate there. I completely subscribe to that view. But what if someone is listening to this, Robin, and they're struggling in their life? They don't have enough money, let's say. They are always wondering about the next paycheck. How am I going to feed my family? How am I going to pay the mortgage? I wonder how that message lands for that individual compared to someone who has already achieved it? Well, I'd have two replies to that, Rangan. The first thing I would say is for 15 plus years, I've mentored celebrity billionaires, sports superstars, entertainment royalty, heads of state.

And many of these people have a lot of money, but they're cash rich, life poor. Second way I'd offer a response I'd offer to your question is the book is based around the eight forms of wealth. The fifth form of wealth is money. I am in no way saying money is unimportant, especially now, poly crisis, cost of living crisis. We all know we all need money to put food on the family table, to pay for our responsibilities, to take care of our families, and to do good things for people we need if there's some leftover. So there's 25 chapters in the book deconstructing the mentalities,

habits, blueprints of the billionaires I've mentored. So I'm not saying money is not important. I think it's very important. That's why it's the fifth form of wealth. I'm actually not even saying the accumulation of things is wrong. I don't know about you, but I'd rather stay in a nice hotel room than a flea bag. I'd rather have a comfortable pair of boots than cheap boots. So I think as human beings, if you like beauty, and I love beauty, and we're all sensitive creatures, I love flowers. And well, if you like flowers, why not beautiful material things as well? So there's nothing wrong with those things. I think the danger comes when they become your gods versus your masters. And I think the danger comes when you define yourself

in the world by your car, your things, and your money. Having spent decades working with some of the elite performers and business people in society, you've taught those people lots of different things. Do you think that what you've learned from those guys is applicable to the man or woman on the street? Or do those guys live completely different lives? these people have these high ultra high net worth people have everything that so many people think is success and this gets back to the cultural hypnosis and it goes very deep it starts off when we're young there's the one of the chapters learn the penum principle those five forces that shape our programming and our filter on which we see the world. And it starts off very young. And so we pedestal the billionaire and the decamillionaire, et cetera, et cetera. In my experience, I would say most of these people are on the mountaintop financially and commercially. I'd say most of them, money's all they have.

I'd say most of them money is all they have so many of them their children won't talk to them so many of them medicate themselves in various forms to get through their days so many of them have created so much

complexity in their life I've got to tell you two of the happiest people I've ever met. One was my ski instructor. When I was in my 40s, I got this idea. I wanted to be a level one ski instructor. And so I worked with this amazing ski instructor, sparkle in his eye, beautiful family life. You just ski in the mountains all day.

And as we were going up the chairlift one day, he said, you know, Robin, us ski instructors are not rich, but we have rich lives. And I think that's a really powerful point. And that's really what I'm talking about. There are seven other forms of riches. Last night I did a book event here in London. I did a book event here in London. And in the row, front row, I had my 86 year old, my dad will be 86 in June. My father and my mother were there. And they've been, they live in Toronto.

They've been here with me all week as I've done media. I'm very blessed and grateful to finally meet you. I've heard so much about you and to be on your show. But each evening after my podcast and being on all these shows, I go to my parents' hotel and we have a nice meal in the room. And here's me and my parents, they're in their eighties and we're just hanging out laughing. That is the wealth money can't buy. Yeah, I love that, Robin. It's such a beautiful image of you flying your parents out

here to London. They're watching you do a huge talk in London last night. Going back to your upbringing then, and thank you for sharing where your parents are from. A lot of the time, certainly in immigrant families to the West, there's a huge focus on academic achievement. And I completely understand where that comes from. A lot of the time, immigrant families have had to put up with hardship and discrimination, all kinds of other things. And so they don't want their kids to have to go through that. So the way out for their kids is excel, straight A students, be a lawyer, be a doctor, be an engineer, then you won't have any of the struggles that we might have

had. So I completely understand that. But as you say, as with me, it can be toxic sometimes. It can lead us down a toxic path, not because anyone wanted that for us, but just that's because we absorbed that idea and we ticked all those boxes that were set out for us. Your parents, I'm sure, are very proud of you and seeing the impact you're having on the world. What was it like for them though when you were transitioning from Robin Sharma, the lawyer, the successful lawyer,

to Robin Sharma, the successful guru, the successful author, the self-help guy? Well, yeah, I don't consider myself a guru. I have so much work to do. I'm a work in progress, but I've come a long way thanks to my inner work. Externally, my parents were really supportive. But even last night at the book event, people were asking them, like, how did you feel? I called mom after the event and she said, oh, people were asking them, like, how did you feel?

I called mom after the event, and she said, oh, people were so nice to us. And they were asking, you know, what was it like when Robin was self-published? I started off as a self-published author. I printed 5,000 copies. I wrote the first book, The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari, in a 24-hour copy shop.

It just started from incredibly simple beginnings. I had no idea until yesterday when I was researching for this show that you self-published that. I just assumed that that was a big publishing deal with a major publishing house. So I had a vision of writing this book. I put my heart and my soul in the book. Self-published it, right? Like we can make excuses or get results. We can't do both.

And I think in our world right now, a lot of us are giving away our power to external conditions. And we are being victims. And we all can fall into that trap. I'm not saying I don't fall into that on some days or at some times as well. But victims are about CBE, complaint, blame, and excuse.

And we give away our power. And I think if you look at anyone who does something beautifully creative or a great love enterprise or a great spiritual affair, these people all say, okay, here's the opportunity and I'm going to get the job done. As simple as it sounds, I'm going to get the job done. And when people laugh at you, you get the job done. And when there's limitations, you get the job done. As simple as it sounds, I'm going to get the job done. And when people laugh at you, you get the job done. And when there's limitations, you get the job done. You know, what made Apple under Steve Jobs is most of his competitors, every time there was a vision and the team brought a constraint, they diluted the vision to adapt to the constraint, if that makes sense. What Steve Jobs did, for example, six weeks before the Apple

shipped, the iPhone, he said, you know, I want this special type of glass on the iPhone, six weeks away from shipping. And his team said, well, there's no glass like this on planet Earth. And Steve Jobs wasn't interested in anything but getting the job done. And six weeks later, Corning made the glass and the Apple iPhone shipped with that glass because Steve Jobs wanted the iPhone to be so beautiful people would lick the screen. And so the point is, I've learned that you've just, whether it's a marathon or healing or starting a business, you've just got to get the job done in this world where so many people are giving away their power. And so, yes, I said, I want to write this book. I found a 24-hour copy shop. I would go in there.

I had to be at work at 8 o'clock as a litigation lawyer. I was up at 4 o'clock, 5 o'clock. I then printed about 5,000 copies. You know this. You're a very successful author. But I would leave five copies with the bookstore on consignment. They wouldn't even pay. What does consignment mean? Consignment means we're not going to pay for your book. You can sign it with us. We'll put it on the shelf. If it doesn't sell, come back, anonymous author, and pick up your books. We're not going to pay you. But someone in publishing told me if you sign the books, if an author signs the books,

the bookstore can't return them. So I go to all the bookstores and I'd be signing the books. And one night I was signing the book and my son Colby, he was about four years old at the time, signing the books at the front. And there was a gentleman looking at me and he goes, wow, the monk who sold his Ferrari, what a great title. Tell me more. I said, I'm a litigation lawyer, but this is my mission. And here's the book. And after about five minutes, he goes, this is really interesting. I'm going to give you my card. Looked at his card, Ed Carson, president, HarperCollins. And they bought the world rights for $7,500. And that book is now sold probably over 10, 12 million copies.

Do you believe in fates? I believe heaven helps those who help themselves. I believe it's one of the key philosophical questions, isn't it? I believe we must do our part. We must mine our talents. We must turn failure into fuel. We must install great habits, treat people well, do great work, and then let go and let God. My mom said it so well.

I talk a lot in my books about my dad. My mom always goes, like, what about me? You know, so I'm going to acknowledge mama here on your podcast, but she had a great line for me. And she said, you know, Robin, what is yours is yours and what is not meant for you, you won't get it. So why would you worry about it? Yeah. So I think if, if you've done your part, you don't get what you want, it wasn't for you, something even better is coming. When you were getting up early to print the book and then get to work by eight o'clock, could we make the case that part of that was hustle culture? Because you had to hustle, because you were where you didn't want to be. had to hustle because you were where you didn't want to be. So temporarily, in order to leave law and follow your heart and your mission and get to where you wanted to be,

you had to hustle. And I guess the point I'm trying to get to is, is it okay to hustle for a bit if you need to, to change your trajectory, is the problem when the hustle culture becomes like everything that you do. This episode is brought to you by Airbnb. Now, I've been using Airbnbs for many years now for pleasure and for work. And last year, when I was in London for a few days of work, instead of staying in a hotel,

I stayed in a wonderful Airbnb, which was centrally located and had a really nice kitchen so I could start off each day with my own food, just the way I like it. I've also just booked an Airbnb for a work trip to Oxford, in which I plan on recording a few episodes of this podcast. Now, over the summer, one of my best friends from university told me

that he has been hosting his own place on Airbnb when he and his family are away. And he said that the extra money has been fantastic and helped over the years, both with the cost of their holiday and the cost of their new family car, which got me thinking when we're next away as a family and our house sits empty, perhaps we could Airbnb our own place and make some extra money to go towards our holiday. And if you have a trip coming up, you could potentially do the same. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.co.uk forward slash host. Vivo Barefoot are one of the sponsors of today's show. Now I am a huge fan of Vivo Barefoot shoes and have

been wearing them for over a decade now, well before they started supporting this podcast. I've also been recommending them to patients for years because I've seen so many benefits. I've seen improvements in back pain, hip pain, knee pain, foot pain, and even things like plantar fasciitis. And contrary to what you might initially think, most people find Vivos really, really comfortable. But I have to say, especially at this time of year, as the temperature is starting to drop, their winter boots are absolutely fantastic. and I myself am really enjoying wearing their brand new Gobi warm lined winter boots. Now as well as adults I think they are a fantastic option for children and I really hope that in the future more and more children start wearing barefoot

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If you go to vivobarefoot.com forward slash live more, they are giving 20% off as a one-time code to all of my podcast listeners. Terms and conditions do apply. To get your 20% off code, all you have to do is go to vivobarefoot.com forward slash live more. The first thing I would say is, how are we defining hustle culture? Yeah. Hustle culture, and I believe you're saying this as well, hustle culture doesn't, if you're against hustle culture, you are, I am, we don't subscribe to it, let's say, that doesn't mean you don't do hard work. Hard work has got a dirty name in society right now.

The Taj Mahal was built with hard work. The Sistine Chapel ceiling was built with hard work. Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata took hard work. J.D. Salinger's Catcher in the Rye took hard work. You know, look at all the companies now, whether it's Apple, NVIDIA, Tesla. These companies all wrote a great love story. I have a great partner in my life. Her name is Elle.

I don't know if that's the best example because it's pretty easy with her and us. It's the most remarkable relationship. There's not a lot of hard work, but you have to put in the effort. So I think hustle and grind only becomes toxic when it dominates your life. And there are a lot of people.

You see them on the internet saying, I need to put in 16 hours, 17 hours a day and outwork everyone around you. So hustle and grind culture, I believe, is unhealthy. But no one's saying commitment, putting in the sweat equity required. But then I go to this, in part of my methodology, I have a model called the twin cycles of elite performance. So if you could imagine a circle, the first cycle is the high excellence cycle. This is maybe four days a week, or it could be a month, or it could be a season where you are working on what I call in the Wealth Money Camp, your project X, your piece of magic, where you put it out in the world and it's that one thing that wows all witnesses.

That's the high excellence cycle. But then without the deep recovery cycle, you are going to deplete what I call your assets of genius. you are going to deplete what I call your assets of genius. So if all you're doing is hustling and grinding, you're going to deplete your willpower, for example, your cognitive bandwidth, for example, your inspiration, your health is going to suffer, et cetera. So I believe a great life is a series of seasons,

seasons of working and seasons of resting and recovering and enjoying. And those seasons can take place within a year or even within a day. Third thing I would say very quickly is I love what Gandhi said. He said, I have much to accomplish today. Therefore, I must meditate two hours rather than one. So I think it's important to rest. And with the rest and recovery, you're going to do even better work. And then the final thing I'd say is I don't want anyone to think the wealth money can't buy is about hustling and grinding. That's the whole idea of the eight forms of wealth.

The fourth form of wealth is craft. That's all about productivity, pushing magic into the marketplace, finding meaning in your work. But what's the second one? Wellness. What's the third form of wealth? Family. We're going to get into those, but family. What's the seventh form of wealth?

Adventure. So the eight forms of wealth when fed will give you your richest life. Yeah. I love the way you have almost put a new spin on wealth in the new book. Because I think if you talk to a lot of people about wealth, money is the thing that comes to mind, right? Again, that could be cultural conditioning. I actually looked up wealth in the Oxford Dictionary this morning, and there's two definitions, but one of them is a plentiful supply of a particularly desirable thing. I thought that definition spoke beautifully to your book because a plentiful supply, so abundance of a particularly desirable thing.

So kind of infused within that definition is what do you find desirable? Right? And I think that speaks gaudily to these eight forms of wealth. Because if you're only valuing money in your life, and not family, and craft, and community, and adventure, and service, and all these other forms of wealth that you write about, then you're going to go down a path and your actions and your behaviors each day are worshiping the God of money. But if you desire your health and you desire your family, you know, these things you value, then the meaning of wealth is going to be very different, isn't it? It's very true. I love that definition. It's really about prosperity, prosperity of human connections, prosperity of graceful moments. I had one of the first mornings

totally free yesterday morning, and I found the secret garden here in London and there were actually bees. There were bees and there were flowers and it was just this perfect moment. And to me, that does speak to wealth, the wealth of beauty. In the book, one chapter is be a perfect moment creator. And I think this is a form of wealth, according to the definition you read. So Eugene O'Kelly was the CEO of KPMG, the global accounting behemoth. And one day he walked into his physician's office to receive the results of a routine medical. And the physician came back in, the doctor came back in with an expression you never want to see on the doctor's face when you're waiting for your results. And the doctor said, you have 90 days left to live approximately, you have inoperable brain cancer.

And sadly, he passed away roughly 90 days later. But Rangan confronted with his mortality, and I'd love to talk a bit more about the power of mortality and intimacy with it. But confronted with his mortality, he decided to use the business skills he'd used as a corporate titan and reverse engineer the last 90 days of his life to be what he called a perfect moment creator. Because he had realized in all his years as a mogul, he had never taken his wife to lunch. He had missed Christmas concerts with his daughter, and he'd never taken long walks with his great friends in Central Park. And so that's what he did in an act of great wisdom. In his last 90 days, he just looked for these moments that filled him with awe and wonder and joyfulness and peace. And so I think that's often worth more than millions in the bank. I mean, we remember

those things and they stay in our hearts and souls with us much more than any kind of a win. And if we go to the science again, because again, I know you're a scientist, look at the work of Sonja Lubomirsky, one of the preeminent positive psychologists. And she talks about hedonic adaptation. Yeah. And as you know, hedonic adaptation means you say, oh, I wish I had a million. You get the million. It feels good for a little while.

And then it becomes your new normal. You say, I want to get a Ferrari. And then my problems will be all okay. You get the Ferrari. You drive it around for a while, it becomes your new normal, and then it becomes a drug of choice and you want the next Ferrari.

So there's nothing wrong with having your material ambitions, not at all, fifth form of wealth. But if we think, myself included, if we think getting those things will make us feel better, I think we're just mesmerizing ourself and deluding ourself because the Zen proverb says it really well. Wherever you go, there you are. Yeah. A bad day for the ego is a great day for the soul. What does that mean? Let's say you've had a bad day. Let's say you've had a bad year. Let's say you've had a bad decade.

you've had a bad day. Let's say you've had a bad year. Let's say you've had a bad decade. What does the ego say? Get me out of this. Can't stand this. Why me? Why did they do that to me? Makes you feel miserable. But a bad day for the ego is a great day for the soul because it is our troubles and our tragedies and our difficulties that introduce us to wisdom. When do we read the wisdom literature? Khalil Gibran's The Prophet or the wisdom books. I don't know about you, Rangan, but when I've been in the seasons of difficulty and in the winters of suffering, that's when I go to wisdom most. So we learn wisdom in difficulty So we learn wisdom in difficulty.

We learn forgiveness in difficulty. We write hundreds of pages in our journals, pouring out our pain and confusion in difficulty. We ask ourselves the big questions. Why am I here? What's it all about? How can I improve? We learn self-love in difficulty

and we learn how strong we are in difficulty. So the ego says troubles and challenges are bad thing, but the soul understands that our problems are incredible teachers. There's a chapter in the Wealth Money Can't Buy, your herders are your helpers. That's, I think that's the answer. Yeah, I love that.

In fact, in that chapter, there's this gorgeous bit of writing. By standing in the fires of hardship, discover the virtues of wisdom, tolerance, forgiveness, resilience, and compassion. I love that. It's beautiful. Yeah, well, first of all, I have to appreciate you for

your level of preparation, which is very special. And there's a lot of amateurs out there in the world, but it inspires me to meet a professional. And I believe respect for your work comes from self-respect. So I want to appreciate you for that. And then I think you're like me, you're an esthete because that was emotional when you read that. And I think, you know, the more we can take off the social mask we wear in the world, like most of us feel the world is a pretty scary place. And I think what it does is it makes us put on this suit of armor. And no one's saying don't be a realist. But if we could only take it down like you just did and be moved by beauty,

whether it's a passage of writing, whether it's a family having a great meal together, whether it's I live in an old Tuscan farmhouse and I wake up in the morning and the fog is just coming over the hills and I just have my espresso and I just take it in. But if we would only be more of our true selves, I think it'd be very powerful. Quick story, yesterday I was going to get my coffee, leaving my hotel, and there was a gentleman moving one of those garbage bins, you know, picking up garbage. It was early morning and he was singing. So I, now this might not go the way you think it's going to go. It sure didn't for me, but he was singing and I went, wow, I love the way you're singing. And he stopped and goes, what's the problem? I was taken aback. I said, no problem. I'm just sincerely saying,

I like your singing. And then I just beelined out of that situation as quickly as possible to get my coffee. And as I was walking, I could have felt a lot of rejection, but I felt sad. And I thought, how scared must he be of the world to be so closed at a sincere compliment? What has he endured? And his default, what was his default? What's the problem? How many problems has he suffered to see an interaction like that as yet another problem? Yeah. And so your herders are your helpers. That chapter in the book, it's a bad day for the ego, it's a great day for the soul. The people who break your heart are the people who open your heart if you have the bravery to let them. Yeah. The chapter straight after that is

hang with clowns, expect a circus. It's true now. Well, I love the title. Can you explain what it is for people? Well, let's again go to the science. And I think about Nicholas Christakis at Harvard's University. I thought you were going to say the science of clowns then. The science of clowns. No, it's not a study, but it would be fascinating. Like what makes people become a clown and what is the psychology of clownship? I think about Nicholas Christakis at Harvard University and he has found that through, and we can get into it, and I'm sure you know all about it, but through the phenomenon of emotional contagion, which simply stated means we adopt the dominant emotions of the people we are around. And through a type of brain cell called the mirror neuron, which causes us to mimic the people we are around, he has found that we actually start to model and behave like our friends.

But here's what I love. We actually not only behave like our friends, but the friends of our friends. And the friends of our friends is friends. So we become our associations. And so hang with clowns, expect a circus. If you hang with energy vampires, if you hang with naysayers, if you hang with toxic people, if you hang with people who are all about the worst of humanity versus they're interested in beauty and magic and living a great family life and great spiritual life and building great health and making the world a brighter place,

well, hang with clowns, you expect a circus, and then you can figure out why your life is a mess because you've allowed these people. It's not all the reasons, but one of the reasons our lives get messy is when we let toxic people into our lives. And it's an act of radical self-growth to ask yourself, who are the three people that degrade my joy? And who are the three people that elevate my joy? And having the courage to release those three energy vampires and dream stealers in your life changes your life. Now, people always say, but what if it's my mother?

What if it's my best friend? And I would say, reason, season, lifetime. Some people come into your life for a reason, some for a season, some for a lifetime. And maybe if your friend isn't growing with you, even though they've been your best friend for 10 years, love them from afar. Some people are going to hear that and go, that's really, really challenging. Okay, I get what you're saying. You know, there's a, there's a video you've got on YouTube, six things you wish you learned at 20. And the first one was delete people who steal your joy, which I think very much speaks to what

you've just been talking about. As you've acknowledged, people will say, but it's my mom, it's my dad, it's my brother, it's my childhood friend. Do you have any practical advice on how they can actually do that? Sure. First thing I would do is have a candid conversation. Sit down with your brother and just, and without blame, say, here's how I'm feeling. Blame someone, they're going to go on the defense. You want them to hear you? Here's how I'm feeling. I just shared I wanted to run a marathon or I just shared I wanted to start a business or write a book.

And you immediately said it's not possible or be more practical. And it happens every single time we meet. You find something, probably not intentional, but you find something that makes me feel bad. And I just wanted to share that with you. And I love you as a brother. And I pray there's some way we can find it so we can still spend time together, but you realize how it makes me feel. So that's one way. Have a great conversation, which is really rare.

We don't know how to, a lot of us don't know how to communicate, right? It's like, you did this, you're a brother, you made me feel angry. So have a real conversation. I believe you can say whatever you want to anyone, so long as you say it with respect. Yeah, it was so powerful what you said there.

You're not trying to blame the other person. And I think that's the trap so many people fall into. They get agitated, they're emotionally triggered, and then they have the conversation, which just leads to more emotion, more animosity. Whereas you said, just deal with the facts. Say, hey, you know, last week when I shared that with you, I noticed that you went to negativity straight away. Now, it may not have been your intention. You may not have meant that. But to me, it comes across as if you're always trying to dampen or pour water on my dreams, whatever it might be. It's a really, I think it's a very helpful tip for people.

So it's honoring you. It's honoring your happiness. And it's not dishonoring the person who you're speaking with. And it can apply in a restaurant as well. If the food is bad, you don't have to swallow your disappointment. You've paid for the food. Honor yourself. But a lot of self-help people, they become very righteous. And so they say, oh, you know, I'm going to speak my truth and I can hurt people.

I think if you're in a restaurant, if the salad was a mess, it was like soggy from too much vinegar, you could say, I'm just off the top of my head, you might say, I found the salad had a little too much vinegar. And I'd be so grateful if you could bring a fresh salad. I hope that's no trouble. And I've never experienced a situation where that's a problem. You treat people with respect and it's ever so powerful. And then you asked for some tips on the relationship and removing the dream stealers and the energy vampires. I'd say the second one after having a clear conversation is selective association.

If after the conversation they continue because they're just being themselves and they don't want to change or they're too scared to change, well, then honor their journey. Everyone's where they're at, learning where they need to go. People are doing the best they can do

based on the level of consciousness they're at. Love them from afar. And what does that look like? Well, it could look like rather than texting your brother seven times a day, I think we're in a world where there's just too much connection, too many conversations, too much chatting about every little thing. They're like junk, low-grade conversations, aren't they? Oh, I just scratched my stomach.

I wanted to let you know. So, you know, it's just, and then we wonder why we don't have any free time. Well, you're spending all your time telling everyone you're scratching your stomach and putting on a mud mask. We don't need to see that. Thank you. And I'm just joking, but selective association, see your brother once a week or once a quarter. And if they just are bringing your life down, do whatever you want. I'm not dogmatic here, but you have one life. And if someone is really destroying you and they're toxic and it happens in a lot of intimate relationships, then do that person a favor and do yourself a favor and get out of that relationship. You're well known, Robin, for starting this 5am club movement. I know one of your previous books

is the 5am club. It sparked this global community of people who are getting up at five or getting up early to be intentional about their day. What would you say the similarity is or the connection between The 5am Club and The Wealth Money Can't Buy? when you get up at 5 a.m., you experience a form of wealth money can't buy. When you get up before the sun, in this age of dramatic distraction, there's such a peace in the air.

I think that's why the yogis, you probably know the term in India, they call it Brahma Murtha, Brahma. And it's that time between four and six. And that's when they believe your mantras are most powerful because you've cleansed the residue of the day through sleep. Your prayers are more easily heard. And when you read the wisdom scriptures, easily heard. And when you read the wisdom scriptures, the wisdom goes deeper into your character and into your spirit. So I personally, now I get up at four, I think 5 a.m. is the minimum viable morning routine. And I can walk you through my morning routine now. But I think getting up early sets the tone of the day. The Spartan warriors used to say, sweat more in training and you'll bleed less in war.

But getting up early and writing in a journal, getting up early and listening to some music, getting up early and praying or walking in the garden, you go out into the world and the tone and texture of your day is completely different. That's a form. It's not one of the eight forms of wealth, but if you ask me what's the linkage, I would say that one hour is wealth.

Yeah. I mean, there's so much to say there. The other link for me is that the wealth money can't buy, for me at least, is really expanding out our idea of what wealth really means. You're saying it's not just money. Yes, that is a form of wealth, but it's also other things as well. And if you really want to be holistically wealthy, authentically wealthy, you need to pay attention to all eight of these forms of wealth. So for me, the link, because I'm a huge fan of getting up early in morning routines as well, right? So I'm on side already. But I think that time to yourself each morning, the silence, the solitude, you get to know yourself better. You get to know when you're overworking or something is off in your life that needs addressing. So I think the link is, it is a practice

that if you do it regularly, will help you attain these eight forms of wealth. That's the way I see the linkage, but perhaps you see it differently. I see it exactly as you see it. We will never rise any higher than we are. Our outer life reflects our inner growth. Our primary relationship with ourself, our mindset for interior empires, mindset, hearts, and health set, and soul set,

call those your character, your inner life, your intimacy with who you truly are. The more you can connect with your gifts and your talents, your true values, your native powers, who you were before the world taught you to disbelieve in yourself and become like everyone else you see on the selfie reels. The more you can spend time getting to know that person and building that person, the more every other relationship will be transformed. As you become stronger, more loving, more intimate with your gifts, the way you deal with your family's different, the way you deal with your friends is different. As you take time while the rest of the world is asleep and you inspire yourself, you can inspire your teammates. The rest of the world is asleep. You're up at 5 a.m. You're thinking about how you want to live your day. What a radical concept.

Thinking about how you want your day to unfold. Well, you'll be kinder to people in the streets. And if you stumble, you'll get back up. So that hour, I call it the victory hour in the 5 a.m. club book, is one hour to make yourself stronger, wiser, more peaceful, more loving, more brave. Now, I'd like to be tactical and offer a tool. I call it the five question morning maximizer. So let's say you're up. What do you do at 5 a.m.? We can get into it, but first thing you want to do is sweaty exercise.

It'll release dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, which builds focus, BDNF, brain-derived neurotrophic factor, which promotes neurogenesis, the creation of new brain cells, helps you process more quickly, et cetera. So get the exercise done on this book tour. I haven't felt like it, but after the workout, I'm happy I did it. So you're still doing it even on tour?

Absolutely. Before I came here today, the book, I try to get in bed between 9.30 and 10 these days. Last night, Michal, who travels with me, you met him. Last night, Michal, who travels with me, you met him. We got back to the hotel at, let's say, 10, 15, after the book signing. There were a lot of people there. We had a quick meal, because if I don't have a meal, I'm not going to sleep well. But I got up.

I'm not saying I'm a hero or anything, but I got up at 4.45 today, and I got into the gym, because I needed to do that to be here for you. If I missed my workout, I wouldn't have the energy and the cognitive ability to show up for you and your people today. So I needed to do it. And if I, I think one of the only, one of the main things that has got me through these nine weeks at the pace we've kept is the morning workout. weeks at the pace we've kept is the morning workout. So the five questions. Once you've done the workout, pull out your journal, have a cup of coffee. Coffee is a fantastic cognitive enhancer, antioxidant. First question, what am I grateful for? We all hear everyone talking about gratitude. Gratitude is the antidote to fear. Write down what you're grateful for. The Persian proverb says, I cursed the fact I had no shoes until I saw the man who had no feet.

You have a roof over your head. You have work that allows you to contribute value. You have people who love you. You are a rich person. Second question, where am I winning? Yeah. So for 20 years, I've been talking about micro wins, 1% wins. Now this idea is getting very popular, which isn't that a wonderful thing?

Because I think people understanding it's what you do each day, not what you do every year that makes a difference is powerful. So where am I winning? That will give you energy and protect your hope. Third question, what will I let go of? This is what we were saying. Just a little paragraph. I'll let go of the resentment from yesterday or someone I need to forgive. Fourth question, what does my ideal day ahead look like? Gives you intentionality. Fifth question, powerful one. What do I need to hear at the end? You literally connect with your mortality every morning, fast forward to the last hour of your last day, connect with what you want your loved ones to say,

write a paragraph on it. It helps you live to the point. Yeah. What's so powerful about writing these things down, do you think? down, do you think? Just taking a quick break to give a shout out to the mental wellness app, Calm. Now, do you ever feel like your brain is on overdrive and your mind is constantly racing? The plans, worries, and to-do lists can often feel never-ending. Well, Calm can help your mind take a break from the noise by softening anxiety symptoms in the moment and helping you cope with day-to-day stresses. Calm is the number one app for sleep and meditation, giving you the power to calm your mind and change your life. Now, Calm recognises that everyone faces unique challenges in their daily lives, that mental health needs differ from person to person, and that time for meditation may also

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forward slash live more. That's drinkag1.com forward slash live more. It refocuses your mindset in a world where a lot of us are busy being busy chasing mountains that might not be the right mountains. So it gives you focus. Secondly, intentions are creative. That's all I can say. When you write your intentions, I want to be more loving. I want to execute on my ideas. I want to build this business.

I want to change these lives, I want to execute on my ideas, I want to build this business, I want to change these lives. Writing is prayer on paper. And prayers are heard. Yeah. And maybe if you don't believe in God, I believe prayers are heard by your subconscious mind. Yeah. So I think that's the second thing. I think the third thing is you're doing some emotional healing with the third question.

You're letting go. What do you do with a therapist? You let go. That's the whole idea of talk therapy or in part. Well, journaling, that third question, what will I let go of? That is processing. You're metabolizing the resentment and the anger. You're not holding it out, holding it in, excuse me.

You're in 60 seconds metabolizing and letting it go. To heal a wound, feel the wound. And then the final question, you're doing something that so few of us do, you're connecting to your mortality. Yeah. No, I love it. And I totally agree that writing these things down is deceptively powerful. I mean, people hear this stuff,

they hear me talking about it, they hear you talking about it, they'll hear it on Instagram reels, on YouTube videos, but a lot of people hear it and don't take the next step and take action. You know, I don't answer those five. I have my own three, which are quite similar. One of them is what, you know, first one is, what do you deeply appreciate about your life? Second one is, what is the most important thing you have to do today? Again, just brings focus with all the noise, with all the busyness. It just helps direct my attention as to what is the most important thing. And the third question I ask myself is, what quality do you want to

showcase to the world today? Love it. Again, very similar in themes to the five that you asked yourself, right? But I guess, again, trying to connect the dots between the 5am club and the wealth money can't buy I'm looking at those eight forms of wealth in front of me and it directly directly speaks to the first two growth and wellness because if you're having that one hour victory hour as you call it every morning you are doing daily self-improvement. You are doing a level of personal growth in that victory hour. You're also massively helping your wellness. You're working out in that victory hour. You are journaling, which we know can improve our mood, lower anxiety, lower depression, improve decision-making, increase the chance of us

sticking to those healthy behaviors that we want to stick to. So I actually, I think on every level, you can connect the 5am club with the wealth money can't buy. And it fits together very neatly like a glove. I would say that it's really interesting. No one's done that on this tour. I would say you're right. And I would say the 5am club is like base camp on a climb to Mount Everest. The 5am club is about your morning routine, that first hour and billing yourself. And the Wealth Money Camp I is all about how do you make the climb to Mount Everest? What are the elements? Another way to look at it, the 5M Club is about your inner world and the wealth money can't buy is how do you find true worldly success and real wealth out into the world? Having said that, the starting, the first form of wealth is growth. It is personal development. I think, I think, you know, again, society doesn't say that.

And correct me if I'm wrong, please, Rangan, but society doesn't say, he meditates and she journals and this person reads the wisdom literature. This person goes for walks every day at the end of the day and reflect on how they're living. This person has been in a sweat lodge. This person is doing emotional healing. Wow, they're really rich. You don't hear that. You don't hear that. But what a currency to release your limitations and insecurities and your fears and your faults and take back your true power that you were born into to build greater awareness of how strong you are, your gifts, where you want to go in your lifetime to make yourself more heroic,

wise, loving? Isn't that a form of wealth? Our society should be celebrating from the mountaintops? And what would the world look like? Mother Teresa said it well. She said, if everyone could only sweep their own doorstep, the whole world would be clean. Yeah, that's brilliant, isn't it? Absolutely brilliant.

You call it the victory hour. There's a lot of busy mothers who listen to this podcast. And sometimes I'll see comments online about morning routines from a variety of different people. But sometimes people will say, I'm too busy, or you don't understand my life. I've got lots of stuff going on. I'm a mother. I've got to look after the kids, get them ready for school. I don't have time for a one hour morning routine. I know what I think about that question. I'm very interested as to your thoughts, because I'm guessing you must have had some pushback against the 5am club. And I'm interested as to, first of all, how you would answer that question, but B, you know, what is some of the pushback that you've

received and how do you counteract it? Sure. I think it's, it's very, it's a very fair point. What I hear is some people saying I'm a new parent and it's very hard. I also get, I do shift work. It's so sincere. They want to join the 5M club. They just say, I'm a shift worker. How do I do it? So the first thing I'd say is, I'm not interested in saying you need to do this.

If you want to experience the wonders of the 5M club, test it. And do it for a month and see if it's for you. But I would say stay open to it. Yeah. Because if you're not, and someone says, let's go get Vietnamese food, and usually you eat Italian food, you might miss your new favorite food. your new favorite food. And if you don't test it out, and I'm not talking for a week, test it out for a month until you reach that point of automaticity and fluency with the new habit of getting up before the sun, you might miss something that changes your life. Last night at the book signing, I had so many people coming up to me saying the 5 a.m. club changed my life. There's

one gentleman in particular, and he moved me. He said, I was a drug addict. I read the 5 a.m. club changed my life. There's one gentleman in particular, and it moved me. He said, I was a drug addict. I read the 5 a.m. club. I've launched my own business. He said, I made 100,000 profit last year. So try it. If it's not for you, hey, we can still be friends. Be a night owl, no sweat. Then yes, I totally hear the parent issue, but I just must report truth. There's a lot of parents who say, I do the 5 a.m. club. They just work around it. And maybe it's three times a week, not seven days a week. Maybe one parent, if it's two people, maybe one parent takes care of the child on three days a week. So I hear the resistance, but I also out of love and respect must say,

if you repeat your excuses long enough, you're actually going to hypnotize yourself to think they are true. And we don't just do it with the 5 a.m. club. We say, well, I hear you that this is a great time to launch a business, but here's why I can't. And they actually believe they can't, but people are launching a business every day. And other people say, well, I hear you, Rangan, that I can find true love or work on my wellness, but I'm too busy right now. What are we so busy with? Often you look

at some of these people making the excuses and they're on their phones half the day. Let's go to the research. On an average day, the average human is using their phone on their phones half the day. Let's go to the research. On an average day, the average human is using their phone 4.37 hours a day. That's three months a year playing, looking at influencers and people dancing to hip hop songs with their families at the dinner table. That's three months a year. Did you know that 75% of human beings check their phone within the first 10 minutes of waking up, not meditating, not visualizing, not praying, not doing journal prompts that are on their phone. So- And what's the negative of that? Someone's saying, okay, Robin.

Sure. Great question. What's the downside of that? Why can't I? Well, not why can't I? Because obviously everyone's entitled to live their life how they wish to live it. But every action has a consequence. So if someone says to you, Robin, you've helped so many elite performers around the world live healthier and happier

and more productive lives. What's the problem with me within 10 minutes of waking up looking at my phone? Or what is the consequence of that? What do you say to them? Attention residue. So there's been research that says we wake up with a full well of focus.

Yeah. And every time we focus on the phone or focus on a TV show or whatever, we take some of the fresh attention we woke up with and we leave it on the phone. So I think then we wonder why we have no focus and presence for our family, for the special moments in our day, for our work, and we can't focus on getting the things done. Second thing I would say, a problem checking your phone first thing in the morning is, what do so many of us do? We check the news. We check our email. We check our notifications. And then we get pulled in and it's an hour later. And in a lot of cases, we lost an hour of our lives. We'll never get back

by watching things that were superficial and often destructive. Like when I go in the gym in these hotels, pretty much no one's there. I turn off all the TVs. So I think that's, I don't like the word problem, but I think that's the problem. Checking your phone first thing in the morning. If you want a great day, why would you start it like that? Yeah, I completely agree. I mean, these things are so addictive that unless you keep it out of your room, it's very, very hard not to look at it. The other thing for me, first of all, I love that term attention residue. I think it's such a gorgeous term that really says so much. It's really evocative. The other way I look at the problems or the potential problems with looking at phones and emails, and it doesn't matter what you're looking at on it first thing in the morning, is that so

much of what we think, so many of our behaviours, our feelings, our thoughts are downstream of the content we consume. So if you wake up and let's say you don't have long, let's say someone goes, you know, one hour, no chance. Okay. What I say to them, what I've said to patients for many years is, can you do five minutes? Can you do 10 minutes? Because even five or 10 minutes of intentionality first thing in the morning, I have seen can make a big difference. Now, I'm a fan of victory hours, right? I do live my life in a way where I create that space in the morning for me, but I appreciate not everyone either feels that they can yet, or maybe they want to start small. But it is a magic, they're magical minutes, the first few minutes after you wake up, the first

five, 10, 15, 20 minutes. If you can stop putting in nonsense comments on Instagram and negative news, is it a surprise to you that you're reactive with your partner and your kids and your colleagues an hour later when you're with them. You know, should that really be a surprise to anyone? If you spent time investing in yourself and you're allowing your own thoughts to come up and you journal and you work out, you move your body, whatever that may look like for you, I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to kind of understand that you are going to show up as a better human being in every aspect of your life that day. Three replies.

Again, we're singing from the same songbook. And I would say, be selfish. To anyone who pushed back, I'd say be selfish. And what I mean by that is once you do it and do it for, let's say, three weeks, four weeks, we could go to the research of University College London, 66 days to install the new skill. And anyone who says, oh, well, I can't get up at 5 a.m. or I can't journal or I can't work out or I can't read every night. I would say you have a gift. Every human being has a gift. And the gift of the human brain is the gift of neuroplasticity.

We all are geniuses in this world. We have neuroplasticity, which is the brain's ability to adapt to new conditions. So we all, we're meant to grow. So why would I say be selfish? I would say by taking the time for a strong morning routine, it's so good for you. It will make you so much more inspired. That's good for you versus building someone else's dreams. By reading something great, it's good for you. You'll build wisdom. You'll understand how to do life even better. By doing what I call MVP in my methodology, meditation, visualization, and prayer, you'll live longer. You'll have more energies. You'll

extend your telomeres or prevent them from shortening, which as you know, is one of the key markers of true aging. So be selfish. Second thing I would say, in the book before the Wealth Money Can't Buy, it was called the Everyday Hero Manifesto. And one of the chapters was the practice, the IPOP principle. What's the IPOP principle? Input positivity, output positivity. Input positivity, output positivity. Input positivity. So now some of your listeners, I don't think many, but might say, okay, now let's metaphor, virtually hold hands and sing Kumbaya. But I think when you, it's remarkable when you stop, when you, read of art, go to an art gallery. I love coming to London. I spend a lot of time in art galleries.

iPop, input positivity into your system and not remarkably, you're going to output positivity. And then the third thing I would say is we get from life what we settle for, not what we want. So victims are about CBE, complain, blame, excuse. The world is bad, poly, crisis. My childhood was hard. I think the past is a school to be learned from, not a prison to be locked in. And so we get from life not what we want, but what we settle for. So if we settle for negative information first thing in the morning, because you've

mentioned morning routine, well then let's not be surprised if our habit, it actually a non-morning routine is a routine. And if it's watching news and checking your feeds and et cetera, then please don't be surprised if your day is more negative. You don't have as much energy. You've lost the sparkle in your eye. Your creativity's low. You're not productive. And when you join the 5 a.m. club, it creates this, and I'm not selling anyone on it. Don't do it if you don't want to do it. That's absolutely fine with me. I'm just here to serve. But it creates an upward spiral of success

because you've had a great morning. Now you're better in the day, but it also builds discipline because you did the workout. So you eat better at lunch. You feel better in the afternoon because you feel better in the afternoon. You're more joyful with your family. And rather than watching three hours

of mindless entertainment, you have the energy and the focus and the enthusiasm to read something great. And so you sleep well and you wake up the next morning and your days are your life in miniature. So as you live each day, so you craft a life. Yeah. Love that. We've covered a lot of the eight forms of wealth in our conversation so far, but I thought we could directly go to some of the chapters in the book now, Robin. Sure. I picked out a few of my favorite bits and, you know, I'm very happy to share some of your favorite bits. But the book is split up into eight parts, right?

These eight forms of wealth. into eight parts, right? These eight forms of wealth. Could you just give us all eight and give us a brief overview of what they all mean? And then I'll sort of pick out some of my favorites. Of course. The first form of wealth is growth. Developing yourself is a currency money can't buy. Second form of wealth, wellness, your health. Someone once taught me health is the crown on the well person's head that only the ill person can see. If you have good health, it's human nature. We take it for granted until we lose it. Third form of wealth, family and friends. Happy home, happy life.

Fourth form of wealth, our craft. A job is only a job if we see it as a job. All work contains meaning, the ability to serve, the ability to do amazing things. Fifth form of wealth, money. Money is important. It's a form of wealth. It's something, it's not everything. Sixth form of wealth, our community. These are our associations. We become like the people we are around. Seventh form of wealth, adventure. It's about not losing the sparkle in your eye you had as a kid when you were ready to take on the world. And the eighth form of wealth, service. ready to take on the world. And the eighth form of wealth, service. Finding a way each day to make the lives of other people a little better. Yeah, great summary. Okay, so let's start with the first form of wealth, growth, the daily self-improvement habits.

This one I really like, stop saying these two bad words. I wrote that down. Stop saying, I'll try, basically. Why is that important? There's so many times when we get a great idea and we say, oh, that's a great idea. I'll try. Read this book, watch this film, try this routine. Read this book. Watch this film. Try this routine. Seize this opportunity. Huh, good. I'll try. I'll try are two dirty words, I believe. I'll try means I'm not really interested.

I'll try means I'm scared. I'll try means I won't hold myself accountable. I'll try means I have an escape route. Yoda said it well. He said, there is do or not to do. There is no try. So I would encourage anyone, strip out all try. If you're not interested, don't do it.

But if you're interested, get the job done. Yeah. The human who reads the most wins. It's all about reading, isn't it? Absolutely. BABL. It's a great acronym. Book Buying Beyond Lifetime Expectancy. Book Buying Beyond Lifetime Expectancy. BABL. Buy more books than you'll, I don't know about you, there's a, I don't know if I can mention the name of the bookstore. I probably can here in London. Yeah, sure. I love Hatchards. So when I land from Heathrow, for example, I will check into the hotel, take a quick shower and beeline over to Hatchards, or Hatchards as they say here.

Hatchards, or Hatchards as they say here. And I just love getting lost in the books. And I walk out with armfuls of books. And Plato said it well. He said, a home with books is a home with soul. So let's put down our phones for a while and read. Read something that will enrich you, inspire you, show you new possibilities because reading is having a conversation

with the author. Yeah. Do you read every day? Every day. And I love audio books. One of the tools that I teach is walking university. So I'll go for part of my afternoon routine

after I finished my creative work, I'll go for a one hour nature walk and I almost always listen to a podcast or an audio book. And walking university audio books are so powerful. Yeah. A lot of people love audio books, don't they? I mean, I like listening to podcasts. For me personally, I prefer reading the real hard copy of a book, but I love listening to podcasts.

But I know many people won't read books anymore. They'll just listen to audio books. Absolutely. And I would say if there is a book that really resonates with you, get both versions. So listen to the audio book because it's easy to consume. Listen to it a few times. If it's a great book, listen to it 10 times and then study the book as well. Yeah. The next area of wealth is wellness. We've touched on a few things. What is one of your favorite chapters in the section on wellness? Practice the naked sunbathing rule, which I'm not going to get into. No, I'm just joking. But you know, it's all about sunshine, vitamin D, reducing inflammation. Another chapter in the wellness section, the second form of wealth is take a bath in a forest. Yeah.

And that's Shinrin-yoku, which is the Japanese habit of forest bathing. Yeah. And again, we're in London. I love going to Green Park or any park, but things are okay when you commune with nature. And if you just smell the flowers and look at the trees, it just calms you down. So I think that's one of my favorite chapters in the section. There's a chapter that's called Health of Your Minds, and you talk about these four positivity practices, which I thought was really useful really useful first one being how could this be worse

yes if there's a problem ask yourself has anyone died here if no one has died it gives you perspective yeah second one there was get good at savoring what's that about positive psychologists will tell you that the world's happiest people based on scientific research savor. So you're having your morning coffee. It's so easy for us to be looking at our phone and drinking slurps of coffee. Maybe put down the phone, put on some nice music

and take even five minutes and savor the coffee. Be fully present, taste how it feels, appreciate the texture. Say, if you're with the conversations I've had with my parents, rather than being, my mind being on other things, savor the fact I'm with my parents in their 80s and we are having a meal together. Look around, listen to their stories. Savoring is so powerful. Even if we're walking to work, often we're caught up in our own thinking. Savor the walk, savor the fresh air, look around the city. Yeah. As we go through these eight forms of wealth, Robin, I'm wondering, are there any that speak to you that you wish you knew earlier on in life? I would say some of the cautionary tales in the book about relationships I wish I learned earlier. One idea is a red flag is a red flag and you could use many years of your life or lose many

years of your life thinking it's green. What does that mean? Well, Maya Angelou said it far better than I ever could. She said, when people show you who they are, believe them. And so how often do we meet someone at work or in a personal relationship and they show us their red flags, they show us concerning behavior, but we ignore it. But we ignore it. And so the red flag was there. Because we ignored it, it created a lot of problems. Is that because we're too busy? And it's easier just to ignore it and keep going on with our lives?

I think it's wishful thinking. Often we want people to be who we hope they are the verses being realists happens a lot in intimate relationships yeah we see the red flags we want the relationship to work out we ignore the concerns we go deeper and deeper and deeper the initial red flag behavior is part of a pattern it just continues and makes things worse. And then we get intertwined and enmeshed in the relationship. And often it can be hard to get out of it. Let's say someone gets the book, The Wealth Money Can't Buy, and starts to apply these principles in their own life over a period of weeks, months, and years, how does one know when they are wealthy? You'll know when you know.

Sometimes people say, ask me, you know, how do I know if it's true love? You'll know when you know. Yeah. How do I know if this is the right career path for me? You'll know when you know. Yeah. So I would say, firstly, how do we know we're living the eight forms of wealth? You have serenity. I think serenity is the new luxury. You'll have serenity. You'll have a sense. Doesn't mean your life will be perfect. My life isn't perfect. You'll have serenity. You'll have a sense. It doesn't mean your life will be perfect.

My life isn't perfect. Yet I've come a long way over 40 years of doing this personal development work. I've come a lot farther than where I used to be. So that's the payoff. Things that used to activate you or bother you, you can't believe it. Wow, I just noticed that doesn't bother me anymore. It's the most incredible feeling, isn't it? When you think, wow, 10 years ago, that would have really bothered me for days, weeks, maybe longer. And now, like, you can just see it for being nothing. It's just neutral. I guess for me, one of the big realizations on this self-development journey is when you, not only you know,

but you feel it as well that I have a choice in how I react to every single situation. For me, that's been huge to know that you are in charge here. I think it speaks to what you were saying before. You mentioned CBE, complaints, blames, and excuses. I think in the book you compare it to APR. Is that right? Absolutely. Victims are about, you can tell a victim because they give away their power to make changes in the things they don't like. And they're all about CBE, complaining, blaming, and excusing. I didn't do that. I can't. It's because of my parents. It's become my boss. It's blaming, CBE. Leadership is about APR, absolute personal responsibility. What am I doing to create this?

What are my choices? Oh, I don't like this job. I can leave it. Oh, this relationship isn't inspiring me. It's like a dramatic relationship. There's too much drama. It's I can leave and I will leave. So I think that's really important not to give away your power. In the final section, which is on service, the two that have come to mind there are, number one, do three acts of service. I think that's per He came to one of my live events and we spent a

weekend at the event. And then I drove him to the airport to catch his flight back to Los Angeles. And Rangan, when he was walking through the airport, people were coming to him. Little kids wanted pictures. Adults wanted signatures. People wanted to greet him and say, oh, you're our hero. And as he walked through the airport, he stopped for every single person who came to him. And when we got to his gate, I said, wow, you stopped for everyone and you were fully present. What's your approach? And he said, Robin, said something I've never forgotten. He said, Robin, it takes so little to make someone happy. And that has been a core rule. Like if I'm staying at a hotel on this book tour and I go to a coffee shop, how little does it take to buy two

extra pan of chocolats and drop them off to the people working at the front door? It takes so little to make someone happy. This might sound weird, but I take the, and I'm not saying I'm perfect, I'm no guru, but it's a practice. I take the towels from the shower and I put them in the bathtub. I make my bed and I make sure the room is clean for the housekeeper coming in because this is another human being and a nice tip on the bed. This is an act of respect for another human being.

And so it takes so little to even, like I mentioned the gentleman on the street, to say, hey, I love your song, but we can give gifts each day. And the great thing is when you give these gifts, you give a gift to the person, but you give a gift to yourself. I've heard you describe what you do in hotel rooms before and absolutely love it. I remember hearing it and sharing it with my wife, this idea that, I think in the conversation I heard you talk about it last, you said, when you leave a hotel room for the day or you're checking out or whatever,

you make sure you leave it relatively tidy because the person coming in to clean it is someone else's father or someone else's mother. And that really, really spoke to me. And it made me think of all kinds of things. In particular, the way you do the small things is how you kind of do everything. You know, it's so easy. Some people will say, Robin, well, yeah, but I pay for this hotel room and there's housekeeping coming in. You know, why does it matter how I leave that room? But I think it's really lovely the way you articulated that.

Well, I would say it's easy to say no one will see it, but your greatest self sees everything that you do. So you make the bed, you leave the sink clean. First of all, you're respecting the hotel that someone owns. I know this sounds strange, but this is someone's property. And by respecting it and by respecting the person who's going to clean the room, you're not only respecting them, you're actually doing training. I think this is a key point, I hope. You're training yourself for self-respect. The more you respect others, the more you'll respect yourself. The more self-respect you build, the more you'll respect

your family, your health, what you eat, the quality of your work, your words, the way you live your life. Yeah. I love it. Honestly, one of the most powerful things I've heard in a while. Great. What about that chat to live fully so you can die empty? What's that about? So even the longest life is a very short ride and people don't like talking about death. So I don't want to, I don't want you to lose millions of followers, but I think death is not negative. I think death is a great tool of inspiration and human beings as species, we're just great postponers. We are massive postponers. Spend more time with the family when I finish this work project.

Get fit when things are easier. Read the classics when I retire. Visit Positano or Bogota or Vietnam when things are ideal. The Chinese say the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now. the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now. And so by connecting to the shortness of life and realizing I could die walking out of the studio,

just accident, pandemic, war, loss, illness, tragedy, it's just, it happens every day. But we have a cognitive bias, do we not? It's not going to happen to us. So realizing that is part of life and we could go tomorrow, but also realizing even a long human life, a long, rich, beautiful, creative, productive, soulful life. But even that is a very short ride. And before we know it, we're all going to be dust,

probably in an urn on a mantle above a fireplace next to football trophies. And no one's going to really think about us except for our family and our friends. And once you connect with the shortness of life, then I think you start to live to the point and you start to strip away accessories and you put down, I'm not against phone. I love technology. I think it's a great servant, a terrible God. But you stop being busy, being busy, and you start saying, okay, what are my personal Mount Everest? What are my key

priorities? Oh, it's my family. It's the eight forms of wealth in the book. It's my personal growth. It's my wellness. It's my family. It's my craft. It's financial freedom. It's my social network. It's injecting my days with adventure and using my life for service. Yeah. It's been a real pleasure chatting to you, Robin. You've been doing such inspiring work for years. I mean, I don't know if we can even count how many millions of people you have communicated with and touched over the past two or three decades. It really is quite incredible. For someone who perhaps is new to your work, who has just come across it today, listening or watching this podcast right now and thinks,

hey, you know what? I need to make some changes in my life. My life is a bit unbalanced. I've been overly prioritizing one of these forms of wealth at the expense of some of the others, but I don't know where to start, what would you say to them? I would say the best place to start is just to start. Don't complicate it. How do you start the next best-selling book? You write a page.

How do you start a marathon? The first walk. How do you start a life transformation process? You ask yourself, what's the best thing I heard Rangan and Robin say? Oh, that resonated with me. I'm going to start applying it today. And continue with that one commitment in the sun, in the rain,

when you're scared, when you're strong. And what starts to happen is the more you stay with that commitment, the stronger you grow. Second thing I'd say is forgive yourself. Your past served you and got you to right here. So don't beat yourself up if you're 45, 65, 85. I think everything is grist for the mill. I wouldn't be who I am,

but for everything I've gone through, you wouldn't be who you are. It was all good. Let's not beat ourselves up for our past mistakes. They were essential to sculpt us and make us into who we are today. Yeah. I love that. Great advice, Robin. The new book, The Wealth Money Can't Buy, The Eight's Hidden Habits to Live Your Richest Life. Thank you very much for coming on the show. Really an honor. And I want to appreciate you for the millions of people you inspire and for how sincere and well-prepared you are

and how humble you are. It's been one of the most enjoyable interviews I've done in a long time. So thank you. Thanks. I appreciate that. Really hope you enjoyed listening to that conversation. As I mentioned in the intro, this is the last episode in the current season. I will be back at the start of September with

brand new episodes and I can reveal that I have some absolutely fantastic guests lined up. I want to say thank you to all of you who take the time to listen and share these episodes each week with your friends and family. I do not take that for granted. I know that your time is precious. My hope is that each of the conversations inspire you to make positive changes in your own life. And if you do enjoy my podcast, I have a favor to ask of you over the summer. My goal is to empower and inspire as many people as I can with positive, uplifting, and hopefully life-changing content. And I would love to get these conversations out to more people, but to do that, I really need your help. So my ask of you this summer is to share an episode of this podcast with five different people. And I think this can help in so many different ways. Of course,

it will help the person receiving it, especially if you have chosen an episode that is relevant to them. For you, this serves as an act of kindness from you to one of your friends or family members. And for me, it helps to get the word out and increase the reach of this podcast, which in turn helps me convince and persuade hard-to-get guests to come on the show. No pressure, of course, if you don't want to do it, that is completely fine. But if you do have a moment, I really would appreciate it. Please also do check out drchatterjee.com forward slash tour over the summer. In 2025, I am doing my first UK theatre tour, 15 dates around the UK. These are going to be really special evenings. I will be sharing practical tools, wisdom, insights,

stories, and so much more from my two decades of clinical practice. It is called the Thrive Tour, be the architect of your own health and happiness. And my aim is that every single person will leave feeling inspired and ready to make positive and long lasting changes in their life. And I've got to say, I am working with the most wonderful director to put on a spectacular show with music, light, and so much more. So please do check out the dates at drchatterjee.com forward slash tour, let your friends and family know and pick up your tickets if you fancy coming along. And finally, from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for giving these conversations a place in your weekly schedule.

I hope you have a wonderful summer and always remember you are the architect of your own health. wonderful summer. And always remember, you are the architect of your own health. Making lifestyle change is always worth it. Because when you feel better, you live more.