Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - #83 Dr Rangan Chatterjee LIVE at The Scottish Parliament with Annie Wells MSP

Episode Date: November 13, 2019

This week, the microphones are turned and it’s me in the hot seat. This conversation was recorded at The Festival of Politics 2019 on World Mental Health Day in The Scottish Parliament with Deputy Convener of the Cross-Party Group on Mental Health, Annie Wells MSP. I was invited to speak about my mission to inspire people to make small sustainable changes to their lifestyles, which as many of you know, I believe is the secret to having a healthier and happier life. We discuss how my own experience as a carer shaped the way I practice medicine and I talk about my passionate belief that everybody should have access to good quality health information. We also delve into a wide variety of different topics from breathing and sleep to this podcast and how it has grown so rapidly. Finally, the floor is opened up to the attendees of the event and I answer their questions – including being put on the spot at the very end as to what my top tips would be for reforming the NHS. I hope you enjoy this conversation. Show notes available at drchatterjee.com/83 Follow me on instagram.com/drchatterjee/ Follow me on facebook.com/DrChatterjee/ Follow me on twitter.com/drchatterjeeuk DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If we're going to recognize that we've got a major, major problem with health in our society, whether it's childhood obesity, whether it's mental health problems, whether it's the growing rates of type 2 diabetes, you know, whatever it is, surely where we have got some control over the institutions where this takes place, hospitals, schools, surely are we not now in a stage where we should be saying there is no case anymore to serve junk food in a hospital? You know, I just don't get it. Hi, my name is Rangan Chastji, GP, television presenter and author of the bestselling books, The Stress Solution and The Four Pillar Plan. I believe that all of us have the ability to feel better than we currently do, but getting healthy has

become far too complicated. With this podcast, I aim to simplify it. I'm going to be having conversations with some of the most interesting and exciting people both within as well as outside the health space to hopefully inspire you, as well as empower you with simple tips that you can put into practice immediately to transform the way that you feel. I believe that when we are healthier, we are happier because when we feel better, we live more. Hello and welcome back to episode 83 of my Feel Better Live More podcast. My name is Rangan Chatterjee and I am your host. Now, before we jump into today's episode, I just want to take a quick moment to say thank you to each and every single one of you who has commented and fed back to me about last week's

podcast. I honestly think it was probably one of the most impactful episodes I have ever put out. Certainly, that is what all of your incredible feedback is telling me. I think my conversation with Peter really gets to the true essence of what it means to be healthy, fulfilled, and ultimately free. Do let me know if you want more content like that, and I will do my very best. Now, many of you actually watched last week's conversation on YouTube. And as I've said before, I'm trying my best to actually get all of these conversations videoed so that this information can get out to more people. Now, if you were touched by last week's episodes, I wonder if you could do me a favour.

Could you go onto my YouTube channel, subscribe to it, like the conversation and share it? The reality is that many people I feel would benefit from last week's conversation, but they don't listen to audio podcasts. So if you could go onto my YouTube channel, press subscribe, like a few of the videos, you help to elevate my channel in terms of visibility. And really these conversations each week will be seen and heard by many more people. The quickest way to find it is to go to drchastity.com forward slash YouTube. So if you could do me a huge favor, go subscribe to the channel and like some of the videos. I would really appreciate that. So in this week's conversation, the microphones are turned

and it's me in the hot seat. I was recently invited to go to Edinburgh to do a number of talks at the Scottish Parliament and speak about my mission to inspire people to make small, sustainable changes to their lifestyles, which as many of you know, I believe is the secret to having a healthier, happier and more fulfilled life. This was a huge honour for me and as part of my visit, I was involved in a public evening event. Today's podcast is a live recording of that conversation. It was recorded at the Festival of Politics 2019 on World Mental Health Day in the Scottish Parliament with Deputy Convener of the Cross-Party Group on Mental Health, Annie Wells, MSP. We

discuss how my own experience as a carer shaped the way that I practice medicine and I talk about my passionate belief that every single person should have access to good quality health information. We also delve into a wide variety of different topics whether it be breathing, sleep or even this podcast and how it has grown so rapidly. Finally, the floor is opened up to the attendees of the event and I answer their questions, including being put on the spot at the very end as to what my top tips would be for reforming the NHS, the National Health Service. I hope you enjoy the conversation. Now, before we get started, as always, I'm just going

to give a quick shout out to some of the sponsors of today's show who are essential in order for me to continue putting out weekly episodes like this one. I am delighted that Vivo Barefoot Shoes continue their support of my podcast. And I have to say, I have been a huge fan of Vivo Barefoot Shoes for many years and have experienced a lot of benefits myself, but also with many, many of my patients, especially when it comes to issues like back pain, knee pain, and hip pain. Basically, I and my family wear Vivo Barefoot Shoes anytime that we are not barefoot. So for walking, for work, for socializing, but also for exercising. It is really gratifying to me that so many of you have started to wear Vivo barefoot shoes. Having heard me talk about them for the last few years, I really do think that for many

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vivobarefoot.com forward slash live more. That's vivobarefoot.com forward slash live more. Now, on to today's conversation. Good evening. I'm Annie Wells, MSP, and I'm Deputy Convener of the Cross-Party Group on Mental Health. And I would like to welcome you all to the Festival Politics here in this unique setting of the Scottish Parliament. This year's event celebrates the Festival's 15th year of provoking, inspiring and informing audiences from every walk of life to enjoy three days of spirited debate and engaging conversations. We're extremely pleased that you've been able to come and join us this evening for this in conversation with Dr Rangan Chatterjee. I would like to start by making an acknowledgement at this event tonight and it is in memory of Polly McKenzie, our former colleague who worked in the Scottish Parliament's Official Reports Office and who died earlier this year. Polly McKenzie, our former colleague who worked in the Scottish Parliament's Official Reports Office

and who died earlier this year. Polly was the one who made this all happen. And as Rangan will recall, Polly was so impressed after meeting him last year in Edinburgh that she extended an invitation to return to Edinburgh and share your expertise with the Parliament's Mental Health Network and our festival audience. Polly's family are in the audience with us this evening so I would like to put on record our thanks to Polly for all her work in bringing this

event together. So I'll be inviting you all to get involved in this debate in a little later on. However, if you wish to continue to throw some thoughts out and about, there you can do so by using the hashtag FOP2019. Did you say debate? Are we having a debate? Well, if you want to... Well, no, it's not really a debate. I didn't know we were debating.

Well, we're not, but... I'm starting to get a few of my stress levels now and then. So am I, don't you worry. But no, it's just if you want to put anything out, just what you're hearing tonight, if there's anything that comes up and about, just use the hashtag FOP 2019 and it lets people get involved that couldn't make

it along this evening as well. So again today we are delighted to be joined by Rangan. He is a pioneer in the emerging field of progressive medicine and has changed the way we look at illness. I'm sure you'll know he's known for finding the root cause of people's problems by taking a 360-degree approach to health, highlighted in his BBC One TV show, Doctor in the House. Roland Goodman, we were speaking earlier, and he actually lived in Edinburgh, was it eight years? I lived in Edinburgh for eight years, yeah, absolutely. So he went to medical school in Edinburgh andinburgh and graduated in 2001 2001 yeah yeah and it was

actually with a degree in immunology um and you intended to follow a career in renal medicine however two years after working in scotland and you returned to manchester in 2003 to help care for your your late father, who was a consultant at Manchester Royal Infirmary and who was seriously ill. And your experience as a carer, together with your frustration at how super specialist medicine had become, were pivotal in your move into general practice. Is that correct? Yeah, absolutely. He's also passionate about public health and believes that if doctors

spend more than 10 minutes with each patient together with looking at options not limited to pharmaceutical medication they can achieve better health outcomes rongan has also published two best-selling books on health and stress the four pillar plan on how to eat, sleep, relax and move, which aims to make good health accessible to all and simplify health. And his latest book, which I am in the process, I've not read it fully yet, but I'm in the process of reading it. It's been passed about my office and things like that at the moment. But the book itself gave me some inspiration. And that is the stress stress solution which advises on steps to reset our body mind relationships and purpose and both books have propelled them to success as a resident doctor on

BBC One's breakfast show. You're also a regular commentator on BBC One radio and you gave an extremely inspirational TEDx talk on making diseases disappear. extremely inspirational TEDx talk on making diseases disappear. There's more to this man that I even knew existed. So you write for the Huffington Post, the lifestyle site MindBodyGreen, and Rongan regular lectures on his subjects at events such as these and conferences around the world. And his number one podcast, Feel Better, Live More,

continues to inspire thousands of fans, some of whom, according to the Telegraph newspaper, have dubbed him... I wonder if anyone can remember what they've dubbed him. It was your title? I think my mates at the front can, that's for sure. Does Dr McBreamy resonate with anyone? So he did say he might sort of go, but I'm sure his friends

will vouch for him on that one, or maybe not. That's after Patrick Dempsey in the TV hospital drama, of course, Grey's Anatomy. And I believe there's more talent to you as well. I think that's enough so far. Do you want me to go on? So I believe that you actually play in a band as well. I do, yes.

Yes, and what kind of band? This is just from my own personal knowledge. Well, actually, a lot of it was started here in Edinburgh, actually. I used to play regularly here with my bands and our sort of second bass player is here at the front here, Phil. There you go. Have you got any guitars or anything in tonight? I don't think so.

No, no, right, OK. I did try for you. But there will be an opportunity for members to sort of put questions and views to you tonight. However, I'm going to kick off by asking Ron Gunn the one question that I wanted to know, which he never quite told me earlier, is do you remember being a student in

Edinburgh I know it was quite a long time ago but not as long as it would have been for me and did you live a healthy lifestyle as a student? I do remember most of my time with Edinburgh that's for sure. If I'm honest I don't think I was the healthiest of students I think I've always been fairly health conscious, but you know, I left home for the first time. I came up to Edinburgh. I was, you know, I thought I was an adult and I knew my way around the world, but really with my mates, we were sort of finding out who we were. And if I look back, I don't think I, you know, I don't think I was that healthy, really. I think my diet was okay for a student. I would try and go, you know, and play squash with some of my friends. I'd, you know, I don't think I was that healthy, really. I think my diet was okay for a student. I would try and go, you know, and play squash with some of my friends, you know, just around

the corner in Pleasance, I'd go regularly. But there was, you know, there was a certain thing called student nightlife, which I probably, how can I put it? I probably fully participated in when I was here. And if I'm honest, I don't regret any of that. That was part of my journey to get to where I am today. And I look back on that time with fondness. For me, being back at Edinburgh, it's like my second home, Edinburgh. I thought I was going to stay here and spend my life here. And as you've already mentioned, Annie, I moved back to the northwest of England because my father was seriously unwell he became very unwell whilst I was a student here my mum and my brother were trying to look after him and it was it was getting pretty pretty challenging really so I moved back

to help care for my dad for about 15 years he had lupus and dialysis he was on dialysis for 15 years and you know it was I would have stayed here I really like it here and on my way here from the airport today we were you know the taxi was coming through like um you know grass market and cow gate and I saw these pubs where you know we used to play gigs and things and so it's you know a huge a significant part of my life I think think, has taken place in Edinburgh. So it's a delight to be back, for sure. Good. Glad to hear. I did try and explain that Glasgow is probably the better city in Scotland. But we have agreed to disagree on that one for the time being.

Well, I went to lots of Glasgow, but I went to Glasgow to the Barrowlands, really. So when there was a good gig in town, they wouldn't come to Edinburgh. It would often be there. So I remember sort of driving down the M8 in rush hour, trying to get over to Glasgow for the start of gigs. And it's still as bad driving down the M8. It's probably worse, I imagine. Yeah.

So just to sort of go back to what you were saying there about having to move down to look after your dad and care for your dad, that had a pivotal effect on how you believe medicine should be delivered. Can you explain a bit more on sort of that side of things as well yeah so I think I've reflected a lot on this particularly since my dad died nearly seven years ago now and I think you know if anyone's been a carer before and I'm sure there's many people in this audience who either currently care for someone or have cared for someone, it's incredibly stressful. And you

see health, you see what's important in life in a very different way than if you've not gone through that experience. That's certainly the experience for me. And I think, you know, there's just simply no way I would be the same doctor I am today had I not had that experience. Because I'm not saying you can't be a caring, compassionate doctor unless you have been a carer, and I'm sure many people are, but for me, it's hugely influenced the way I am with people. It's helped me realise that actually one of the most important things for any healthcare professional, above education, above knowledge, is compassion, is kindness. It's how do you communicate with someone? How do you make them feel to say they're important? And that's one thing I felt often, you know, the

overstretched NHS, it is such a fantastic job for my dad. But ultimately, I remember being in hospitals a lot of the time and you couldn't get to see a doctor and you couldn't get clear information. And, you know, I'm not saying this to negatively talk about the NHS. I get everyone in the NHS is trying to do the best that they can in very, very challenging situations. But sometimes what you wanted is just someone to communicate with you guys and me and my family in a very human way, rather than just be about blood tests and blood results and what the course of action is. So, I mean, there's many facets to being a carer that has impacted me. I think that's one part of it for sure. really, and it's something I allude to in The Stress Solution. I wrote a little bit about how,

you know, that experience taught me that having a bit of time for yourself is so, so important. I can remember a time when I was working as a busy GP partner. I remember that I think my wife had just given birth to our first child. You know. My dad was getting more and more unwell. I was getting up at like five in the morning to go around to my mum and dad's house to shower my dad, shave him, get him ready. Then I'd come back, try and have a bit of breakfast with my own family, then drive to work, see a busy day of seeing patients. Sometimes I'd try and nip out at lunch if something needed doing with my dad. seeing patients. Sometimes I'd try and nip out at lunch if something needed doing with my dad's. After work, again, I'd go, I'd try and often, I was always on tent talks. My phone was on 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. It never went off because I was always waiting for that call from my mom saying, hey, your dad's fallen. I can't get him up. Can you come round?

I think I figured out, and actually, weirdly enough, it happened's fallen. I can't get him up. Can you come round? And I think I figured out, and actually, weirdly enough, it happened in Edinburgh. I was in Edinburgh on a stag do. I don't know, maybe, I'm going to guess, 10 years ago. And I came up for the weekend, and I met someone through a mutual friend who was getting married, and he used to play golf. And I remember him saying, hey, look, I live near you. Would you fancy playing? I said, well, I don't really play, but I'd love to get involved. And what I started doing with him, because he had a young child as well, is that every Saturday morning, I'd get up super early and I'd go to the golf course with him for about 90 minutes, maybe two hours. And I found that when I did that, when I gave myself 90 minutes or two hours

of time for me every week, the rest of my week sailed by. I could deal with all the pressures of my life. I could deal with the multiple requests. I didn't feel resentful. And I think, if I'm honest, I did feel I would never say it, but I think on some level, I think if I'm honest I did feel I would never say it but I think on some level I think maybe a bit of resentment was building up inside me that all the decisions I was making were actually I wasn't really doing the stuff that I wanted necessarily in life I was doing things I think I had to do and I almost feel bad saying that because I never resented looking after my dad and I'm so happy that now that my dad's not here, I'm so happy that I actually did everything that I did do for 15 years. But it really taught me that, hey, if you give yourself a bit of time, you can

be a better carer for other people. And I think that is a big theme that I've written about in The Stress Illusion is about, I get it. We've all got different stresses in our lives. I can't change all the stresses for the people who follow my work or reading my book. But what I think I can do is give people simple, accessible tools that whether you're rich or poor, you can still apply them in your own life. And I'm super proud that most of the things I recommend, I think everything I've recommended in the stress book is free, I think everything I've recommended in the stress book is free right it's not you know wellness as a field often we often people criticize it and say oh it's for the affluent it's for the middle classes and you know I've worked in deprived communities I worked in Oldham for seven years and very

in a practice in a very deprived area people on low income a lot of people on benefits a lot of people were immigrants to the UK and they didn't feel as though they sort of fit into the local culture. And I was using the same tips that I'm writing about now with those patients. And you know what? If there is a single mum who's on benefits and has got two kids, right? Yes, I can't change the stresses in her life, but what I can do is give her simple tips that is going to make her more resilient so that she can manage them. So I'm so passionate that every single one of us has got access to, you know, or should have access to good quality, accessible health information. And that really is what drives me on in terms of what I'm doing. And I think, you know, I mean, circling back to your initial question about my father,

you know, my father was a doctor, his family are doctors. You know, I grew up in a medical family. My mum, you know, she was such an amazing carer. She really, I think, has taught me how to care. You know, so I, you know, yes, my dad's illness, but also the way my mum actually took on being a full-time carer and I have been exposed to that and we're all basically products of our environments aren't we you know we're all we we absorb the things around us and certainly for me I don't think without my dad's illness without my dad's uh influence on me but also my mum's influence on me, but also my mum's influence, I don't think I'd be the doctor I am today. A lot of what you say there resonates true with myself as well. My dad passed away almost six years ago

and he was unwell on the lead up to that. So it was being the only daughter, my mum was not keeping well herself, so I was spending a lot of the time doing the caring for my dad. So I'd go up in the morning to get him up, to get him dressed, and then my mum would come home from work. She could then look after him. I would then go back up at night.

So I had to change my whole shift pattern around as to how I worked. But I still had a son as well, and I still had a partner. So it was, how did I fit all that in without feeling the guilt, I suppose, of it? I didn't feel guilty about spending the time with my dad I really didn't but I suppose the sort of a guilt was when my son would say so when are you actually going to make dinner in our house for us when are you actually going to take time to listen to me he could tell me things and I would ask him the same thing the next day so I suppose it's if people

genuinely within themselves feel I don't have the time to look after me how can we actually encourage them just to take that small bit of time whether it's just a minute a day to sort of do the breathing as in your breathing menu how do we actually encourage individuals who think that they do not have any time for themselves it's only yeah and that's sort of a bubble it's it's such a great question because this is something that people ask me all the time and even if you know we spoke about social media before and you know I actually use social media and what I think it can be a force for good you can inspire people you can give out a lot of helpful information if you use it in the right way

but people always say oh that sounds great but you know it doesn't work for me. You know, I'm a carer, you know, I don't have time. And I get that. And I would never be so presumptive to assume I know an individual's lifestyle and whether they do have time or not. In my own experience, at the times in my life where I have felt I don't have time, I did, right? I did have one minute. I did have have five minutes so how do we change that well having conversations like this I think it's an important thing to do because it it you know especially today on world mental health awareness day I think it's so important we talk about this whole idea of self-care and giving ourselves time I'm so passionate to say look it doesn't have to be a one-hour walk in nature or a two-hour yoga session every day.

Those things would be amazing if we can fit them in. But the reality is even five minutes where you actually go, I'm going to give myself some time here and do something that works for me, absolutely will transform the rest of your day. It will make you more resilient to face all those stresses that you might have in your life. So what can you do in those five minutes, right? You can do so many things. You mentioned breathing, right? Even one minute of deep breathing will literally change your biology. So just not to go off on too much of a tangent, but we know that many of us are feeling really stressed out these days. You know, the World Health Organization calls stress the health epidemic of the 21st century, which is, and they were saying that before all the stuff that was going on in politics, right? So I've just been on a BBC political podcast, which is really not a comfort zone area for me.

But we were sort of dissecting how much politics is playing a role in that. And I actually think it's not politics that's causing it. I think that's a symptom of the way society is necessarily rather than being the cause. But that's a whole other topic. But the point I'm trying to make is that stress is an issue. And one of the simplest ways to alter how your body is dealing with stress is to focus on your breathing. ways to alter how your body is dealing with stress is to focus on your breathing. So a very quick lesson, like the nervous system has two branches to it. One is the stress part of the nervous system and one is the relaxation part of the nervous system. And those two are always sort

of fighting a little bit with each other, which is sort of in control. When you're feeling stressed, when you're busy, even if you have got a busy day where you've got a huge of in control. When you're feeling stressed, when you're busy, even if you have got a busy day where you've got a huge to-do list, or you're on your computer with a huge email inbox to get through, what is probably happening without you realizing it is your breathing is changing. And breathing is information for your body. So what will typically happen is your breathing will become a little bit quicker, you'll start to breathe more from your upper chest rather than your diaphragm, and your breathing will start to be a little bit more shallow than it would have otherwise been. And why is that

important? Well, that's important because the way you're breathing is sending messages to your brain that actually everything's not okay, I'm safe i might be in danger because fundamentally your stress response comes from millennia ago and the idea of it is is to basically tell you when you're not safe and when you need to take aversive action so your breathing will change and it will send it will put you in a feed forward cycle basically or send messages to your brain that everything's not okay and you'll start to breathe even faster this is often going on without you even realizing it but the great news about that is is you can hack that system so very very simply if you consciously slow down your breathing you immediately change the messaging that's going to your brain so instead of sending

stress signals up to your brain you start to send calm signals up to your brain. And the breathing menu that I put in the stress solution, the reason I put a menu there is because the reality is we all like different things. I didn't want to just put one breath there and someone go, oh, that's not for me. You know, that's not really my kind of breath. I thought, okay, I get that's an issue. So I'm going to give you six breaths. If you don't like some of them don't do them choose one of them that you do like and use it so the breath i like a lot which i know some of you have got my previous books um i love the three four five breath i've been using that with my patients for for years because it's super easy to remember and it's easy to do. And the idea is that you

breathe in for three, you hold for four, and you breathe out for five. And basically, anytime your out-breath is longer than your in-breath, you help to switch off the stress part of your nervous system and you help to promote the relaxation parts. So you can literally change the way that your body is experiencing stress. And so, you know, I know many of you might have rushed here from work today. We can even try it together if you want, you know, if you're up for trying a three, four, five breath together, we'll just do one. Are you up for it? Yes. Sort of compulsory, but I would just say, you know, don't stress too much about how you're doing it. I'll just count us through it. So breathe in for

three. One, two, three. Hold for four. One, two, three, four. And breathe out for five. One, two, three, four, five. Can anyone feel the difference? Yeah. Yeah one breath right that takes 12 seconds five of those takes one minute so circling back to your initial question i'd say if you think you are too busy in your life there's too much going on you've got to care for other people your to-do list is bigger than everyone else's to-do list right Right, I get it. It may be true. But I bet you, you have one minute to do that. And if that's all you do, it's not just what you do for that one minute.

Yes, that will make you feel less stressed, but that will start to permeate into the other parts of your day. So when you feel stressed later on, you'll know, hey, why don't I just do 30 seconds of that? So, you know, I think it's super, super important. And again, breathing is one thing, working out is another one. You know, a workout doesn't need to be in the gym. You can do one minute of star jumps, right? And you will

literally be burning off your stress response because two million years ago, what was your stress response doing? It was priming you to run, right? So your body is expecting physical activity when you're feeling stressed. But if it's your email inbox that is stressing you out, right? And you're still sat on your bum for the rest of the day, right? You're not giving your body what it wants. And so, you know, again, I'm just trying to say one minute of star jumps will make your day better. And so obviously the more you do, the better. But I would say we all have time for that.

And I think that's the message I'm trying to get across. And I think we do it by having these open conversations. Oh, definitely. And you can feel that make a difference to you when you do that. And I was saying earlier, when you do First Minister's question, you're going to have to do a debate in the chamber. I get a smart watch, so I check my heart rate, and it's pretty horrendous.

So what I'm going to do next time is I'm going to do a minute star jumps in the chamber before I ask my question. Now, that is what I would love to see. That's what I'll do. So, yeah, and it is something, and just exactly what you say, you can be sitting there and your breathing does, I can feel the breathing change dramatically. And it's just a nervous thing that you get and it's just this anxiousness.

You're always filmed in the chamber, so everything you say is there forever. So you need to try and say the right thing and not say anything like some people have said in the past where they get their words mixed up. But yeah, it does make a difference. i say on that point right because i think it's super important many people here i'm sure have got children and families and i've unfortunately i've over the last few years i've had to teach things like this to a lot more adolescents um you know students kids sometimes because i think there's a wider conversation

about how stressful life can be for some of our children these days and the pressure being put on them at school and so many of them really like the 3-4-5 breath it's just a simple way that they feel in control when they're feeling nervous something at school

or they're feeling pressured before an exam it's just something so easily accessible that they can do. And it makes a difference. So if any of you've got someone in your life who you think might benefit from that, please do share that message with them, particularly with younger people. It really makes a massive difference. And then, look, you know, go to another extreme, elite sportsmen. What did they all do? What a lot of, did those guys do when they're in a really stressful situation? They all do. What a lot of those guys do when they're in a really stressful situation,

they work on their breath, right? And what has an elite sportsman got in common with us? Well, they're looking for peak performance in what they're doing. But I make the argument that we're all looking for peak performance in our own life, whether that's to be a better husband, a better father, a better employee, right? So we can learn from these guys. I mean, I think Tiger Woods has been on record before about talking about how he works on his breath when things are getting pressured in a tournament if it's good enough for him right it's good enough for us absolutely i totally agree so i will be remembering the three four i might not do the star jumps in the chamber i will do the breathing before you said that's not record now somewhere right so i think i'll i'll try it at

the back selfie with it as well yeah i'll try it at the back one day. You can post a selfie with it as well. Yeah, I'll try it at the back one day. But obviously we're talking about technology there as well and just how often we're on our phones. And speaking about kids and adolescents, obviously that's a huge thing for them. And I generally sit...

We were in the chamber till 9 o'clock last night, so I would usually be home for probably half 7, 8 o'clock and I would sit and do emails or look at social media or things like that probably for the whole for the rest of the night on and off on my phone but last night I made a conscious effort not to go on my phone for an hour before I went to bed and what a difference that made and just me sleeping because I always struggle to just get to sleep and I know a good night's sleep is one of one of the things for you um but how do we turn a good night's sleep into sort of a positive well-being because I for one feel that I just have to go to sleep to get up in the morning

at the next time and it's I maybe get four or five hours sleep a night most nights so what would be your your tip and I think social media not going on your phone and not playing games or social media anything like that makes a difference what else can we do to get a good night's sleep yeah I mean there's if we look at sleep right sleep is something that we have probably under prioritized more than any other components of health I think for the last 30, 40 years. We've seen it as something that's optional, that will fit our sleep in when we've done everything else.

And actually, there's more temptation today than ever before. And technology is a big part of that. Netflix is another part of that. So there are many reasons now not to go to bed in the same way that maybe 50 years ago, 100 years ago, there just wasn't that much temptation. So actually the time would come, yeah, it's kind of pretty boring now, probably just go to sleep, right? So we have to consciously put things into our life in order to be able to prioritize our sleep now. So sleep is probably one of the best ways at managing stress because not sleeping actually

acts as a stressor in every element of biology when you start looking at it. You're more inflamed when you haven't slept. Your cognitive function, your brain function goes down when you haven't slept. Your memory goes down when you haven't slept unfortunately we know now that chronic sleep deprivation is one of the causative factors not just associated with causative factors in the development of Alzheimer's disease okay and why I say that is not to scare people but it's to give sleep the priority that it deserves Alzheimer's does not happen overnight. You don't just start getting it in your brain as you get symptoms. Alzheimer's starts in your brain 30 years before you get the diagnosis. It's a chronic disease that builds up over a long period of time.

We cannot get away. Chronic stress is another causative factor. Again, you've got to be careful how you say these things because they can really scare people. I'm saying it to just highlight the severity of the problem. And I think a lot of the solutions are very, very simple to how we sleep more. So I can tell you in nearly 20 years of practice, the majority of sleep problems, the vast majority are actually lifestyle issues.

We are doing something in our lifestyle that we do not realize is negatively impacting our ability to sleep at night a lot of time i think we think we've got a sleep problem and of course some people do there are primary sleep disorders like obstructive sleep apnea that might need treatment but more often than not it's a lifestyle issue so what are those factors you You mentioned technology and evening, but let's go right back to the morning because how you sleep at night starts in the morning. Natural light, and I think this is a really key one, particularly as we're getting darker and grayer outside. This is actually the topic of my podcast this week, which came out yesterday. It's on the importance of light for health and for sleep. So why is natural light important? We have evolved as humans to have a big differential

between our maximum light exposure and our minimum light exposure. So light is measured in a unit called lux. So a completely dark room has zero lux, right? If you go outside on a sunny day, like in the summer for let's say 15, 20 minutes, you get exposed to 30,000 lux. That's a big differential from zero lux, right? Even if you go outside on a cloudy day in the summer for 15, 20 minutes, you're probably getting around 10,000 lux, right? This room which we're in is probably about 400 lux. Most brightly lit office buildings in the UK are maybe somewhere between 500 and maybe up to 700 lux, right? Hardly anything, even a cloudy day gives you 10 or 20 times the amount of light that an indoor building gives you, right? So some of my patients, all they had

to do to improve their sleep was to go for a 20-minute walk every morning, right? That's all they had to do. And, you know, the further north we go, so obviously being in Scotland now, it is critical as it gets darker towards Christmas, and particularly in January and February, you must go outside in the day. That will do so much for your well-being, your moods, that you don't even realize. But there is really powerful science on this. So that's the first thing. The next thing to think about when we're talking about sleep is what I call liquid stress. Caffeine and booze, right? So I'm not saying don't have any, right? I'm just simply trying to raise awareness of certain things.

Caffeine. Many of us, I should say, enjoy a cup of tea, a cup of coffee. Here's the thing. A lot of us don't realize the impact that can have on our sleep. We realize it, but we think we're okay with that 4 p.m. cup of coffee to get us through the workday. A few nodding heads in the audience. coffee to get us through the workday. A few nodding heads in the audience. Now, that may be the case. You may be okay, but the reality is this. For most of us, if you go to Starbucks and buy a large latte at midday, right? At 6 p.m., half of that is still going on. Not going on. I'm actually looking at my buddy who actually spends every morning at Starbucks at the moment. So I don't know what time his last coffee is, but 12 p.m. you have your large latte. 6 p.m. half of it is going around your blood and going around your brain. At midnight, a quarter of it is, right? So many of us wouldn't have a quarter cup of coffee, you know, it's a little nightcap before we go to bed, but that's effectively

what many of us are doing with our large cup at lunchtime. So I would never tell someone not to do anything. It's up to individuals to come up with what they actually feel that's going to work for them. But if you are struggling with your sleep and you think your afternoon or your early evening coffee habits or your tea habit doesn't affect you, I would challenge you for seven days, try and have your caffeine just in the morning and see what happens. And if you really want to challenge yourself for seven days, try and not have any caffeine at all and see what happens to your sleep quality. And then you're empowered to make the decision. So I always say to people, my job is not to tell anyone else what to do. We all knowing that we're ultimately saying, I'm going to get enough enjoyment out of seeing my friends tonight

to put up with the consequences tomorrow. And that's perfectly fine. So what I'm saying is I want people to understand how the various lifestyle choices they are making is impacting their lifestyle. So if someone thinks that caffeine is not affecting their sleep and they've never tried reducing it, I would say, well, at least try and reduce it and then see what happens and then you're empowered

so that caffeine is a big one when's the last time you have caffeine in the day probably when i leave here so i'll probably have a cup of tea probably at three o'clock but i used to drink coffee all day i used to have four or five lattes a day yeah i have one coffee in the morning now and i maybe have four cups of tea and a day yeah i have one coffee in the morning now and i maybe have four cups of tea and it's made a bit of a difference with your sleep yeah but i i've literally and so failed vouch for me in the audience i could drink probably 10 coffees in a day probably up until about six months ago yeah well i am also a reformed coffee addict um i will i would declare on stage here in the parliament um you know i've i've had a

problem with coffee i've loved it and i've used it as my crutch to get me through various things but i've also recognized that it's had a negative impact on me and at the moment i'm uh i'm caffeine free because i it's not something i've i'm necessarily recommending people do but i'm all for experimenting and seeing what works and at the moment moment, it's just making me feel incredible by doing that. Just going back to the other liquid stress, which is alcohol. A lot of people use alcohol to unwind in the evening. Life is stressful. We might have had a busy day. We come back, we want a glass of wine, let's say, to relax. And I totally understand that. But you've got to understand that alcohol does affect the quality of your sleep. Alcohol, we think, is a sleep aid. It's simply not true. Alcohol is a sedative. Sedation is not the

same as sleep. They're two very different things. When you look at people in sleep labs and you measure what happens, it is completely different. You don't get the same deep levels of sleep. So what does that mean? It means don't kid yourself that alcohol is helping you sleep, is what I would say. If you think you're okay with your sleep and you like to unwind with it, it's not for me to say not to do it, but let's not pretend that it isn't impacting our sleep. The tip I would give, which is I guess a tad controversial for a doctor to say, but I say, look, if you are, I'm not recommending that people go out and drink, but the reality is you are better off having a 5 p.m. glass of wine than you are a 10.30 p.m. glass of wine, okay? That's just,

biologically, it will have a different effect. It may have worn off by the time you go to sleep. So again, obviously, if that 5 p.m. glass of wine turns into two, three, four, and a bottle, that's slightly different. But again, I'm all about practical suggestions that if that is what you do, just try and shift it a bit earlier. It's going to have less impact on your sleep. So those are a few things. The other thing I'd say about sleep is really important and ultimately maybe one of the most important things. You need to have a routine for sleep. If any of you have got kids,

my kids are nine and six at the moment, they've got a bedtime routine. The hour before bed, I don't start giving them a load of sugar and start putting the lights on brightly and start to wind them up. It's about speaking more softly, having dim lights, doing something like a bedtime story that actually

starts to switch off. As adults, we sort of think that we don't need to do that. But actually, we need bedtime routines just as much as kids do. And actually, if all you do is not to prioritize your sleep, and i have a cut off every evening at this point and for me it's quite early when i'm at home you know it's sort of like eight half eight i'm now right i am off daytime mode i'm off work mode laptop closes and i'm now going to do things that help promote relaxation i was not always like this but since having kids they've always been early wisers. I've started to change various aspects of my lifestyle to suit where I'm currently at in life.

And I find that if I do that, I sleep like a baby and I will read or, you know, I'll sit and chat with my wife with a cup of herbal tea. Things that, you know, sound so simple. Things that we were all doing before technology, frankly. And I am not, you know, I'm simple. Things that we were all doing before technology, frankly. And I am not, you know, I am not holier than thou on this. I am just as tempted to go on my phone. If my phone comes upstairs with me, right, I can't resist going on it. I'm in bed looking at stuff, right? Even though I know and I've written about it, right?

I am just as tempted by that stuff as anyone. And the reality is technology and these phones are made to be addictive. If you talk to people who work in Silicon Valley, it's not an accident, right? So my strategy would be, and this is my strategy at home, is the phones charge in our kitchen. And my wife and I, we try and motivate each other to leave it downstairs in the kitchen and it charges there. If it doesn't come upstairs, I don't look at my phone. Now, before anyone says, oh, but it's my alarm clock, I would just say, look, you know, you could just buy an alarm clock. They're only about five quid on Amazon. We were all doing that a few years ago. And i say that with the greatest respect

it's kind of like these things really impacts our sleep and you need to come up with a strategy so it doesn't come into your bedroom i would fully agree with that but um yeah i will buy an alarm clock i'll definitely do that we've got one in the cupboard somewhere probably i'll probably get half a dozen yeah that's probably it um and i do have a dog so that's generally my alarm in the morning to get me up so um we recently talked on this is world mental health day and you recently spoke with author matt haig on your podcast feel better live more and his experiences with depression and anxiety given the stigma surrounding this topic how does it feel for you to be part of such an open and public conversation about male mental health yeah look um i think that

mental health is probably one of the most pressing issues of our time. It is great that people are talking about this more, but the reality is we're not talking about it enough. And a lot of people like to criticize people who are talking about it. They're saying it's over the top, we should just get on with it. But the reality is people are really, really suffering at the moment with their mental health. And we need to be having these open conversations about it. We need to start normalizing the conversation about it. How does it feel?

I feel very lucky, frankly, and privileged to be in a position where I actually, I can have these conversations with people that seem to really connect and people feel, you know, the amount of messages I get, whenever I post about mental health, people just send me messages saying, I'm so happy that you're talking about this. Thank you so much. And I've got to say, as someone who, I guess I've never had a mental health disorder diagnosed to me. So as someone who wouldn't, I guess, traditionally be suffering with their mental health or would be seen to be suffering with their mental health,

it's really empowering for me to hear these messages go oh god this is super super important the flip side to that i would just say is um if i now reflect back on my time as a carer there were probably times when i was pretty down and i did feel really stressed i guess i never i never thought about it in terms of mental health you know i just thought about it as, things are pretty tough at the moment. You know, this is really hard, you know, you know, real conflicts in my head. I feel more of a responsibility now more than ever to be having these conversations

more as, you know, I didn't get into this whole thing to have a profile, to have a public profile, whatever that means. I really didn't. Passion got me into doing all the stuff that I'm doing and then by being passionate about really trying to empower people and trying to improve their health because frankly as a doctor I was getting more and more frustrated that actually I was taught a pharmaceutical solution for people which can work beautifully

well sometimes but most of what I was seeing were related to our collective modern lifestyles. And, you know, I just wanted to go and help with that and say, look, I think it's important to raise awareness of that. But by doing that, you know, it seems a lot of people are resonating with my messages and I feel very lucky, but I feel the responsibility now that I have to, not I have to, I want to talk about these things things more I've had a lot of guests on the podcast talking about mental health um and I think it's super super important and I feel very lucky that people come on and they open up to me um and you know on another note the way one of my I won't call it a strategy but one thing I've been reflecting on and this is why i'm so um

i'm so proud of the podcast and the and the impact it's having but also the popularity it's now having is that i think that one of the big problems now in society and it feels fitting in some ways that we're talking about this in parliament is that you know everything is so bite-sized now everything is so sound bitey on media and on social media and i've really gone the other way from that i want my podcast to almost be the antidote to that i want real authentic conversations with nuance with concepts the things that actually are getting lost in society when people get very divisive. And I think there's nothing more powerful

than a one and a half hour intimate conversation with two people opening up, right? And everyone tells you not to do it. Everyone tells you in the podcast industry, right? Keep them short. No one's got attention spans. You know, it's got to be a 30 minute podcast because that's the length

of the commute you know what i did that for the first year i was frankly i didn't enjoy it that much as i've got longer with the conversations right it's got more popular and it's that you know we get like over 150 000 people now a week listening to these episodes which is frankly incredible a lot of them are 90 minutes plus and i think why this is relevant is i think being open being honest you know talking about the things that people are struggling with i think it makes a difference to people i want people to feel when they hear this conversation that they're eavesdropping on a private conversation i don't want it to feel like oh we're doing media we're're having a, you know,

we're trying to get these points across. And of course, sometimes I probably don't reach that goal. But I really feel that these, I really feel long form conversation, long form podcasts is a real antidote to what is going on in the world. And I think they can really help with people's mental health problems. And I feel very lucky to have the opportunity to actually have those conversations yeah and i think you're right and i think people always say just keep it to a minimum but to have a proper conversation with someone you need to you need to make sure that that that is allowed to evolve so that we get to to hear people's true thoughts and true feelings you know the gold comes in those conversations in

the second half i've been thinking about this so much because i've been looking at them thinking why is it getting more popular when the conversations are getting longer and i think it's because you know a lot of time i'll have authors on right and you know as an author myself i know that actually there are certain talking points that you want to try and communicate and so if you have an author on who has got certain talking points that you want to try and communicate. And so if you have an author on who has got certain talking points that they want to communicate, actually, you know, you've always got to let people say those things. And then I find once you've let people say the things that they want to say, then you can go underneath and you start to get the real authenticity. I'm

not saying you can't have authenticity at the start, but I find that's where a lot of the gold comes. I don't have a set goal that this is going to be a 90-minute conversation. I let the conversation go as long as needed. When it gets to two and a half hours, I go, actually, I better stop this now. But I just really feel that actually, as I said, long-form conversation, that's what's missing in a lot of the dialogue around politics, around health. A lot of the dialogue is so black or white, right? You know, is it, I shouldn't even say this word, is it Brexit or is it anti-Brexit? Are you pro or anti? Is it low carb or is it low fat, right? These things are just far too black and white. There's no nuance to them. And I don't think a lot of mainstream media is not allowing nuance.

And I think, frankly, I'm keeping these long conversations going, whether it's popular or not, because the reality is, I want these conversations to be a starting point for people. I want them to be a catalyst for change. And I just don't think you could do it in the same way with short media soundbites. I agree, totally. And I'm going to

stop asking my questions there and actually come to the audience because I know there'll be lots of questions. Just taking a quick break in today's conversation to give a shout out to the sponsors of today's show. Athletic Greens continue their support of my podcast. To be really clear, I absolutely prefer that people get all of their nutrition from foods. But for some of us, this is not always possible. Athletic Greens is one of the most nutrient-dense whole food supplements that I've come across and contains vitamins, minerals, prebiotics, and digestive enzymes. So if you are looking to take something each morning as an insurance policy to make sure that you are meeting your nutritional needs, I can highly recommend it. For listeners of this podcast, if you go to athleticgreens.com

forward slash live more, you will be able to access a special offer where you get a free travel pack box containing 20 servings of athletic greens which is worth around 70 pounds with your first order you can check it out at athleticgreens.com forward slash live more so i i will start off the questions there's a lady just down down the front hi um i've been boring my colleagues for 21 years with the importance of stress-related hormones inflammation and blood flow to the brain for people who are in the part of the population where their knees are starting to go as we get older okay so not every not star startups aren't suitable for everybody um so my when i win the lottery i'm planning to install um swings and parks for adults so i'm looking for you to explain to

an msp why that's a great idea. OK, well, I think, first of all, well done for bringing this up, trying to sort of sing this message for 21 years. I think that's incredible because it is so, so important. I don't think it's ever been as important as it is now. In terms of why swings and other sort of accessible ways of moving is so important. I think, you know, human movement is, it's not optional. It's a fundamental necessity. It's a fundamental core of what it means to be human. We have to move. When you start looking at the, the anatomy of your body and what happens when you move, it's not optional yet in modern society movement has become optional movement

now is something that we have outsourced to machines to lifts to escalators never in our existence before humans have we outsourced movement in the same way that we do now you mentioned a great point about people's mobility as they get older sometimes their knees hurt sometimes they just can't move in the same way they need movement just as much as as younger fitter people do movement is not about running around after seats behind us right that is great if you can do it but it's not necessary so if i'm interpreting your question correctly i think it's about saying to someone in the parliaments that trying to come up with ways that more and more adults more and more children can be active I think is an absolute you know it's a strategy of critical importance we can talk about pouring more money into the NHS

right and that's a separate conversation. I actually think what we need to be doing is pouring more money into the making it easy for people to make the lifestyle changes that are going to take pressure off the NHS. And I think installing things like adult swings where actually an adult doesn't feel as though they're going on a kid's thing, but they're actually going on something that's suitable for them. think it's really really important and as I said earlier we're all living stressed out lives now one of the best ways to relieve the stress is physical activity

many people who are immobile feel that they don't have physical activity that is accessible to them so I think it's of critical importance and swings 100% swings 100% swings right is there any further questions I'll lay you just at the back,

and then the gentleman down with the blue jacket. Hi there. I think my question's going to reveal me to be a bit of a super fan, and I don't feel so much like an eavesdropper, more like a sort of stalker. I've listened to nearly all your podcasts in about three or four months

because I've been enjoying them so much. But I campaign for children with autism, and Annie's been very supportive in my campaigning. And I've noticed that you've not mentioned autism and Asperger's in your podcast. I work with children with autism, but I noticed with many of their parents that as adults, they are realizing that they have autistic traits and it's something that's impacted on their well-being.

So I just wondered if that was something you could cover in the future or if it's something of interest to you. Yeah, first of all, thank you for sharing, you know, your passion for the sort of work I'm doing. I really appreciate that. I appreciate the support. Look, the reality behind the scenes of the podcast is this. I just get overwhelmed with requests now. I just get overwhelmed with requests now. And I'm literally, often it's just a case of what I can physically manage geographically.

Like, can I get in this? I generally don't do Skype conversations because I have done a few. I'm trying to move away from it because, again, I really feel there's something about being face-to-face with someone in terms of real, authentic connection. And I think that comes down through the airwaves when you've got that I could be wrong maybe I'm a old-fashioned or an optimist but I really think there's something special about that so a lot of the times it's a case of can I get this set up and fit it around my patients and the other commitments I've got so there hasn't been a conscious decision not to cover water system I think it came up in my conversation with Professor Francis McGlone on the subject of touch. He's done a lot of research on

human touch nerve fibers and how human touch is a very neglected human sense and how it's super important. And he talks, I think from recollection, he talks about autism. He touches on it briefly. He's got a lot of thoughts about autism as well in relation to touch, and I'm going to follow up with him shortly and do part two of that conversation. But thank you for raising that. I will definitely look into now talking to someone about autism. Is there anyone in particular you had in mind who you would like me to talk to? No, you're not sure. That's fine. There's a wonderful guy called Luke Brearden. Luke who, sorry?

Brearden. Luke Brearden. Is it? Yeah, if you don't mind just popping that down on a piece of paper and giving that to me afterwards, I will look into that immediately and I'd love to talk to someone about that. I think it's a very important topic. Lots of people either suffer themselves or have children who are struggling. So I'd very much like to cover that for sure perfect and there was a gentleman just

there and then the lady in the green and the lady in the yellow hi thank you that was terrific how are the medical profession of whom I'm one, partially guilty of medicalizing a lot or over-medicalizing a lot of unhappiness and mental health problems. People I see in clinic every day, I'm astonished when I look at the GP referral letter and the computerized printout of the number of young people on drugs, on antidepressants and antipsychotics for what I perceive to be, yes, mental health problems, but not profound or psychotic depression, et cetera. Are we guilty of over-medicalizing this? Yeah. So you're a doctor as well. What do you work in?

Well, I'm a hospital consultant and i'm one of i'm your nemesis i'm a super specialist so i uh sometimes you write things you think god i wish i could have phrased that subtly differently uh but it's too late um sorry to interrupt i would say i am a i am a complete convert in the last 10 years. My prescribing has gone down. The best thing I can do for a patient is actually sit down and look them in the eye and have a conversation with them. I'm doing 10 times as much as that now as I did when I was a new consultant or 35. Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that.

And just to put the context on that last part of that statement is that I've said something, I think it's in the foreplay of the plan, about something about too many super specialists and what we now need is super generalists. And I guess the point I was trying to make is that I think what medicine has done is, but the way science works, science is fundamentally quite reductionist in the way we look at things. And I think that's part of the scientific methods. fundamentally it's quite reductionist in the way we look at things and i think that's part of the scientific methods and i think that's given a lot of benefit in in developments a lot of medical

developments have come from using that scientific method but one thing i was seeing a lot of is that we were basically you know we were starting to look you were starting to see patients who would literally go around different specialists you know we'd see people with chest pain who would literally go around different specialists. You know, you'd see people with chest pain who would literally go to A&E. They would be discharged from A&E saying, this is not your heart. Okay, fine, I get it. It's an emergency system. It is not a heart attack.

So they'd come back to you and say, doctor, this is not my heart. And then people would be sent to, let's say the respiratory doctor to see, is it your lung? And they'd come back. And again, I'm sort of overgeneralized, but this actually does happen to come back and say, this is not your lungs. And then you might send them to the gastroenterologist. Actually, this is not a

gastro problem. And patients would be there sitting, well, I've seen these three or four specialists. No one still has told me what this is. They've just told me what part of the body it is not. And I think the bulk of what we see today are chronic lifestyle related issues. That is not putting blame on people. That is our collective modern lifestyles is impacting a lot of our health issues. And the system I think we're trained in is very much on diagnosing what is this condition? What is the name of this condition? And then we can give you the treatments, right? And that we can give you the treatments, right? And that works beautifully well, I think, for acute problems. Like if you have a pneumonia,

that's great. You've got pneumonia. That's the overgrowth of a bug in your lung. We're going to give you this pill that's going to kill that bug. And that acute problem is going to go away. If someone comes in with a mental health problem, well, usually that is multi-pronged in what's caused it. It's multifaceted. There are multiple factors in that person's life that actually might need addressing. And our model, our 10-minute model, but also trying to call that something and give a treatment is very limited. So are we slightly guilty? Yeah, I think without realizing it, I don't think we've done it on purpose. I think the medical system works beautifully well for acute problems. I think maybe 30, 40 years ago, that's probably the bulk of what we were seeing. And so the system is set up around that. The health landscape, I think, has now changed so dramatically that the system, I don't

think, is set up for that. And I think many people who follow my work, I've told a story about a 16 year old boy who, who tried to harm himself and came in. I won't tell the whole story again now in the interest of time, but, um, you know, I was asked to start this chap on antidepressants and I took a different approach and we altered his social media usage. We altered his dietary patterns and literally over the course of six months transformed his life. And I always say at the end of that story, I say, this was a 16 year old boy. He was a fork in the roads. I could have labeled him with depression at that time, put him on a treatment, put him on a, uh, an antidepressant that again may have value in some people, right? But I could have labeled him and he could have possibly still been on that treatment today on repeat prescriptions for five or six years. But instead,

I was very lucky, I was very fortunate to be able to help reframe it for him and help him understand how the various things in his lifestyle were affecting his mental health. And so now he's a 25-year-old chap now who is empowered. He knows what happens in his lifestyle. When he goes off, his mood will go down, but he knows now what he has to do. And I think we are part of the problem, actually, in some ways. I'm super passionate about trying to change the way we're educating doctors. The reason I'm optimistic that things are changing is because for the last two years, I've been running a course called Prescribing Lifestyle Medicine. We've got a fully accredited course now by the Royal College of GPs. We train, I think, over a thousand healthcare

professionals in the last 18 to 24 months. GPs, consultant cardiologists, consultant psychiatrists, endocrinologists, nurses, pharmacists, physios, people coming in to learn how do we personalize various lifestyle means for our patients? Because you would be surprised as doctors, we don't get all this, right? So most of the stuff in my first two books and in the third book that comes out after Christmas, I have learned because I was frustrated with what I could do for my patients. I've gone out of my own way to try and study and learn. And, you know, talking to you, you're an MSP.

You know, we have this course now. Edinburgh University have been in touch with me to say, hey, look, how can we start getting this in? Is there anything Parliament can do to help? We've got a fully accredited course. The Royal College GP stamp of approval gives it real credibility. We work really hard to get accreditation. How do we start rolling this out? Because I can tell you, if we only look at the downstream consequences of health problems, as I think the health service now looks, we're not going to overcome this. We're just going to

be putting more and more money into a leaking health service. And I think we need to start addressing the root causes. It's not as complicated as we think it is. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but I just want to raise this because I'm in Parliament. How do we start? At the moment, this course relies on doctors and other healthcare professionals who are motivated, who want to come and spend eight hours on a saturday off their own money to get their six cpd hours right that is great that's a start but ultimately wouldn't it be great if every single healthcare professional had access to that training and then they were empowered to sort of see what the science says and actually how they implement it so slight rant there but i'm so

passionate about that and i I agree with you and I think if there's evidence there that it works and it helps then we absolutely should be doing it and we absolutely should be calling on MSPs in this place and the Scottish government to say look come on. There is good evidence out there already but we're trying to accumulate more evidence that doing this course I mean 95% of attendees said it highly has significantly influenced their practice, right? These are well-trained doctors who are coming on the one-day course and are saying that the tools that they've learned is significantly changing the way that they are treating their patients. That's incredible. They're anecdotally saying it's reducing our prescribing rates,

it's reducing follow-ups and most importantly what is it doing it's empowering patients that you know i'm sure you'll agree with this one thing i found in nearly 20 years of seeing patients is this when a patient feels as though they have no agency over what happens to them they feel this is a condition that's happened and i just have to do what the doctors told me and there's nothing i can do in my life to influence this it doesn't you know that is one of the work is it's just not a good feeling for them and i feel once as a doctor if you can give them a sense of control over certain aspects i think it changes everything and it reduces how many times even a patient will come in because they feel empowered that they can do something

you're absolutely right. And it's something I have actively looked at over the last sort of 18 months because I sort of look after mental health as part of my brief as well. So I do a lot of mental health and qualities. And how do we help people help themselves sometimes as well as some of the things that we're looking at,

making sure that if there is things out there, making sure that the information there is up to date and accurate so that we can feel confident in saying to people, well, this is available to you and that's available to you, and having someone there to actually say, come on, I'll go with you. So there is talk about it. We've spoken about it for the last sort of 18 months. But I will go to Edinburgh University and see them and see what I can do.

I'm with you because it's my medical school. They're in touch with me and I've spoken to them a couple of times. I'd love to get it out there. And I will go and speak to them and see what I can do to help get it more in this place. And just to you, I would like to invite you to the next one, free of charge. If you would like to attend, I'd love you to come and see what it is and see if it actually impacts what you do. Well, that's what we agreed I'd give you a like to attend, I'd love you to come and see what it is and see if it actually impacts what you do.

Well, that's what we agreed. I'd give you a chance to... But generally, if you're interested, I'd love to have you there and see what you think and give honest feedback, because we just want to make it as good as it can be. Amen. Yeah.

So we've got the last two questions of the night. So the lady here and then the lady... He's actually just answered. Oh, has he just answered? Oh, really? We'll try and take the lady behind you then after this one, we've got a few minutes hi hi rangan and my name's lauren i'm a presenter on radio uh sterling city radio hope you might listen i've got a well-being show on there every wednesday night we promo yeah basically i've been on my own sort of personal development journey for the past sort of 20 years since I was diagnosed with a mental health disorder which I now choose to call a response so I don't know

if you've heard you will have heard this that doctors not asking what's wrong with you they're asking what happened to you and I've been following somebody over in America for a few years now and I got to meet him in September and he talks about trauma-based therapy trauma-based approach so this is talking about unhealed emotional trauma and that can cause this is my own belief as well um chronic stress which is then I believe caused my mental health response because my body my mind responded to this trauma by getting stressed and so my question really about that is what you think about that approach and also for someone that has been in chronic stress I agree that breathing is a very good tool I do that quite often I did it

before I asked my question so yeah what else would you recommend for somebody that's been in this kind of chronic stress state and has as a result developed a mental health condition which yeah yeah well hi Lauren thanks for sharing that and well done for trying to you know figure out what's been going on so you can help yourself I think that's that's that's really great and also doing a weekly well-being show to help people. I think that's fantastic. Look, I think trauma is something that doesn't get spoken about enough 100%. I think there's so much evidence on the impacts of unhealed emotions. I've talked about this quite a lot on my podcast, actually quite openly, even stuff that I have done in my own life over the last few years.

As you were talking about it initially, the first thing that sprung into my head is I thought you were going to say that is the way a lot of people feel an appropriate response to the environment in which they've been in? And it's a very fresh way, I think, of looking at a lot of the problems we see. It's something Johan Hari talks a lot about in his book Lost Connections. If you've read that before, it's brilliant. We had a really great conversation with him about that. He talks about if we're living in quite a sick society, a stressful society, maybe a lot of the way in which we're feeling is an appropriate response to what's going on around

us. And I think there is something in that. So I think it's also starting to look at mental health problems in a different way and not necessarily saying, oh, what's wrong with you, which I don't think is very helpful, but more, why is somebody's emotions, why are they responding in the way that they're responding? What is going on? What is the root cause of that? And I think trauma is a big one of those. It's a journey I've been on in my own life personally. The therapy I have engaged in is IFS, internal family systems. I found it incredibly helpful, not because I had a mental health problem, just to be super clear, but because since my dad died, I've been on a journey to try and understand myself better. There were various traits I had, various tendencies I had, that I wanted to understand where did they come from? And as I've gone down that road, I've never felt

happier, calmer, more secure in who I am. Even in the last year, there've been big changes in that. And that comes from a lot of trauma. And trauma, again, is a very loaded word because a lot of people feel that trauma means something really significant has happened to me, like abuse or bereavement. But I don't know if you're familiar with the work of Gabor Maté. And I think Gabor Maté is an incredible man in what he's doing. He looks at addiction in a very compassionate way. And his theory is that all addiction, he says that we all have addiction to some degree, all addiction fundamentally comes from childhood trauma. And I don't want to give you a media soundbite of what Gabor says, because that is a very simplistic interpretation of what he says.

But he goes on to define it. It says trauma is not necessarily bad things that have happened to you. It's also when not enough good things have happened to you, right? And I think that reframes the whole discussion. I don't think there is enough resource in the NHS on trauma-based therapies. I think we are woefully under-resourced in that area. I think there is a lack of awareness on that area. I think it is the key to so many people's mental health problems. I sort of, I think you're onto something for sure. I think a lot of the time people have to go and access this stuff privately, unfortunately. I think, you know, I think trauma doesn't just impact our mental health problems, it impacts various

tendencies we have in our life. A lot of the time, we talk about food and we talk about sugar, a lot of the time we're eating for an emotional reason. Maybe every time we feel down, we eat, and it makes us feel good. So actually just trying to tell someone, you should reduce your sugar intake, or you should reduce how much alcohol you consume you know what you know as other health care professionals say it can be very limited sometimes because ultimately that is serving a purpose in someone's life it is helping them yeah and you're nodding your head right because but once you understand where that is coming from and you process it often often without thinking, those behaviors just fall by the wayside. And again, without sharing too much of my own story, I have found a lot of

my sort of behaviors that maybe consciously I couldn't change as I've gone and actually undergone some of these therapies on myself, you know, lots of things have changed. I did a podcast with Michael Pollan on psychedelics right now i don't know if you've come across the research on psychedelics but it's super super interesting a lot of prestigious institutions around the world uh imperial in london johns johns hopkins in america are doing trials on psychedelics as a way of treating mental health problems and in post-traumatic stress disorder, and in some cases depression, they are showing results way better than anything we've found with drugs yet. Now, I'm not just to be super clear, these are early days, right? They are being done in controlled

settings. But I think we need to be open to, psychiatrists have got a very bad name, and we can talk about why that has been, but actually it is looking like some of them in the right setting with the right therapist, they may provide a lot of value for people at helping them heal trauma. And so I think you're onto something massively important. I think it's hugely important. I would encourage you personally to keep going down that route because I think that's where you'll find some of the answers for you. Thank you very much.

We've got time for one more question. And the lady at the... Right, OK. Could I do a public service announcement? Yes, of course you can. I have to say a disclaimer because I do work for the Scottish Parliament and part of my job is to help people engage with the committees and the Health and Sport Committee at the moment will be taking evidence on the prescription that you were talking about.

And not prescribing medicine, but prescribing lifestyle activities. They're taking evidence on the 29th of October on that very subject because they wanted to look into it. Amazing. So apologies for the public service announcement. You may want to tune in on our website. And that's the final question for the evening. I'm Suzanne. I'm a GP in Westerhales, which is a deprived area in Edinburgh.

And I am now the health promotion lead for the practice and a big fan of lifestyle medicine. And I listen to your podcast on the way to work and really enjoy it. And I've been using a lot of your tips with my patients. And anecdotally, it's been very, very helpful. So just like at the end of your podcast, I was wondering if you might be able to give us your five or four top tips for what you'd like to see maybe change in the NHS. You've got a politician beside you.

Just to put you on the spot. Wow, okay. A political question in Parliament on the NHS. Okay, so top things I would like to see changed. Okay, without any sort of thought, I would say the 10-minute consultation time. I think it's just frankly ludicrous to think in 10 minutes

we can properly get an understanding of what is happening in our patients' lives. So whatever the resource and whatever structural change needs to happen for that, I think that would be the first thing to look at. Secondly, I think it should be compulsory for all medical students in their training to have at least, I was going to say a day, it needs more than that, but at least a significant amount of time on this kind of term of lifestyle medicine, the science of what personalizing lifestyle can do for an individual

patient in a whole variety of different health problems. Edinburgh is one of the most prestigious medical schools in Europe. I'm very proud to have been there. The training was brilliant for acute medicine. It just wasn't that helpful for a lot of the chronic conditions I'm seeing today. And I say that with the greatest respect to Edinburgh Medical School. You will ultimately, as a medical student, you will do the way you've been trained, what was prioritized in your training, what you've been taught, that is ultimately the lens with which you will see your patients. It's the same thing as when we see a patient. If a patient with type 2 diabetes comes in and we spend nine and a half minutes off that

10 minutes talking about the drugs that we can use to manage their blood sugar, as they're walking out the door, we say, if you could lose a bit of weight and go to the gym, that's going to be helpful as well, which is often what happens. The patient's going to go out feeling, yeah, he didn't mention that, but actually, you know, they've got the drugs to sort this. But if you spend nine and a half minutes spent talking about, hey, would you like me to help you understand what lifestyle factors may be contributing? And then the last 30 seconds on the drugs, you're going to have a different response. And so if we don't teach medical students about this stuff, how on earth do we expect them to be able to actually use this stuff in practice? This is the madness of where medicine is today, is that 80% at least of what we see is driven by collective modern lifestyles.

Yet that is not reflected in medical school training. That's point two point three i'm getting on a rant now actually i'm getting i can feel it getting out i like just do a quick three four five um what about the doctors who have already trained right and are not going back to medical school i would love to see all doctors have it you know i don't know if you can make this stuff compulsory but we but we need the doctors who are currently training, currently practicing to start understanding this stuff. So I'd like to see more of the mainstream courses

like the GP update course and the red whale course, you know, this stuff where most doctors are going to get their CPD. I'd like to see them actually start implementing some of this stuff and saying, hey, can we partner? Can we do some of this in our course? Because it's about getting the stuff out there. That was three. What would the fourth one be? The fourth one, I guess, would be, got so many, but this sort of fits in with schools as well, really, that if we're going to recognize

that we've got a major, major problem with health in our society, whether it's childhood obesity, whether it's mental health problems, whether it's the growing rates of type 2 diabetes, you know, whatever it is, surely where we have got some control over the institutions where this takes place, hospitals, schools, surely are we not now in a stage where we should be saying there is no case anymore to serve junk food in a hospital? You know, I just don't get it. Do we think in this room it is okay that actually in most hospitals, I think there are some McDonald's in one hospital, an NHS hospital, I've heard recently. Is that okay? I mean, I don't know if I'm being extreme or not, but to me, it seems logical that in the places where we're trying to, instead of being a disease management

service, we need to be a health promotion service. And I think it would send a really good message to society and to the public and to patients and to the medical staff that if all we serve in hospitals is healthy and tasty, because you can have healthy and tasty food, if that's all you would serve there and also in schools. So that's my four. Done. I hope that answers it. that concludes today's episode of the feel better live more podcast as i said at the start what an incredible honor to have been invited to speak at the scottish parliament and to be interviewed inside the parliament by one of the msps of course this was a slightly different style of conversation to the usual one that I

release each week. So I would love to know what you thought. Did you enjoy it? Do you want more conversations like this? As always, I am trying my very best to give you all fresh and inspiring content each week. So do let me know your thoughts on social media. Many of you will know I'm active on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, but also spending a lot more time on LinkedIn these days. So please do connect with me. Let me know what you thought. I would absolutely love to hear from you. As always, just take a moment right now to have a think about something in today's episode

that really connected with you. Was it the 3-4-5 breathing exercise that I did with the audience? Was it five minutes of downtime? Was it getting more exposure to natural light or some tech-free time before bed? What about cutting back a little bit on your caffeine consumption? Or would it simply be to buy an alarm clock? It's always important to think about one thing that you can think about applying into your own life immediately. If you want to see everything that I talked about today, as well as links to many articles and blogs that I've written in the national media, on my website, and even links to videos where I've spoken about these issues and these concepts on places like BBC News and other media channels, you can access them by going to the show notes page, which for this episode is drchastity.com forward slash 83. Now, one of the key themes from today's conversation

is that good health is not as hard as we think it is, and that it doesn't need to take much time. So even five minutes when done consistently can add up to having a huge impact on your health. And many of the health plans out there simply don't work in the long term because they rely too much on motivation and willpower. And the science is really clear on this. Motivation and willpower always run out. This is the issue that I have tackled head on in my upcoming book, Feel Better in Five. I really think it is the most practical and accessible book I have ever written. Many of you have already pre-ordered the book. Thank you for that. It will be out on Boxing Day, December the 26th, but you can pre-order your copy right now on Amazon. There is a link to do this on the show notes page. Although it's not out till just after Christmas, Amazon

actually usually sends them out before Christmas. So you are very likely to have it by then if you pre-order it. If you wish to support this podcast, many of you send me messages to say thank you for all the free conversations that I put out each week and ask me what you can do to support it. One of the best ways you can support the show is by picking up one of my books, whether it be pre-ordering Feel Better in 5 or ordering one of my first two books. My first book, The Four Pillar Plan, outlines my overall philosophy on health and is full of practical take-home tips to help give you a blueprint for living well in the 21st century. And my second book, The Stress Solution, helps you to identify all the various places where stress lives in your life and most importantly gives you really

simple and actionable tools to help manage this so that you can feel happier and calmer. All the links to the books and their various countries can be found on the show notes page, drchastity.com forward slash 83. If you enjoy my weekly shows, please do consider leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or whichever platform you listen to podcasts on. You can also help me spread the word by taking a screenshot

right now and sharing with your friends and family on your social media channels, or you can simply tell your friends and family about the show. I really do appreciate your support. A big thank you to Richard Hughes for editing and Vedanta Chastity for producing this week's podcast. That is it for today. I hope you have a fabulous week. Make sure that you have pressed subscribe and I will be back in one week's time with my latest episode. Remember, you are the architects of your own health. Making lifestyle changes always worth it because when you feel better, you live more. I'll see you next time Thank you.