Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - #87 What Chronic Illness Taught Me with Nicola Singleton

Episode Date: December 11, 2019

This week’s podcast is a first for me – my guest is a former patient of mine, Nicola Singleton. I met Nicola back in September 2016 on the second series of my BBC1 TV documentary, Doctor In The House. Since then, she has completely transformed her health and I’m so pleased she’s agreed to share that story with you.  Nicola was, in her own words, ‘aged 38 but feeling 98’. She had a list of 10 different health diagnoses and was taking 20 different pills a day. Her main issues were feeling crippled with the exhaustion of chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) along with the debilitating, widespread pain of fibromyalgia – both complex and misunderstood conditions from which she’d been told there was no hope of recovery. She couldn’t work, couldn’t play with her kids, could barely get out of bed. Nicola also suffered from anxiety, depression, IBS and more. She was so desperate to feel better and start living again that she allowed me, and a BBC television crew, to practically move in with her, her husband and three young children for six weeks. In this podcast, we revisit what happened and how, by removing the illness labels and focusing on creating health, rather than treating disease, Nicola was pain free by the end of those six weeks.  Even more enlightening though, is our chat about everything that Nicola has achieved since then, without me. I know you’re going to find it fascinating, whether you saw the TV show or not. Nicola is a remarkable woman and her story a truly inspirational one. Show notes available at drchatterjee.com/87 Follow me on instagram.com/drchatterjee/ Follow me on facebook.com/DrChatterjee/ Follow me on twitter.com/drchatterjeeuk DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You taught me to listen to my body and for the first time in my life I actually started to begin slowly to take a while to understand my body. I no longer ignore my body. You know, your body is so clever isn't it? It actually tries to tell you that things are going wrong and it is so easy to be dismissive and that in itself is empowering. Hi, my name is Rangan Chastji, GP, television presenter and author of the best selling books, The Stress Solution and The Four Pillar Plan. I believe that all of us have the ability to feel better than we currently do. But getting healthy has become far too complicated. With this podcast, I aim to simplify it. I'm going to be having conversations with some of the most

interesting and exciting people both within as well as outside the health space to hopefully inspire you as well as empower you with simple tips that you can put into practice immediately to transform the way that you feel. I believe that when we are healthier we are happier because when we feel better, we live more. Hello and welcome back to episode 87 of my Feel Better Live More podcast. My name is Rangan Chastji and I am your host. Now before we get started today, just a quick reminder that my latest book, Feel Better in 5, comes out in the UK in just two weeks time. In it, I have tried my best to make health as simple as possible. I summarise the best research in behaviour change science and explain why five minutes is all you need to transform the way that you feel. Every single health recommendation in my new book takes only five minutes to do.

And if you pre-order a copy before December the 26th, Penguin will send you out a free Feel Better In 5 success chart. One of the key principles of being able to turn a new behavior into a long-term habit is to celebrate your success. This free success chart will make it really easy for you to track your progress on my Feel Better in 5 plan. So if you go to drchatterjee.com forward slash FBI5chart, you will see an email address to which you can send in your receipt. This offer applies to all orders placed

before December the 26th. So even if you have already pre-ordered the book, you are absolutely able to claim your free chart. Also, in January 2020, to celebrate the launch of my new book, I will be speaking live and doing some book signings at various cities around the country. You can see all the dates at drchatterjee.com forward slash events. I really hope to meet some of you in person this January.

Now, on to today's conversation, which is a bit different from normal. Today, I talked to a former patient of mine, Nicola Singleton. I met Nicola back in September 2016 on the second series of my BBC One TV documentary, Doctor in the House. Since then, she has completely transformed her health. And I'm so pleased that she has agreed to share her story with you. Nicola was, in her own words, age 38, but feeling 98. She had a list of 10 different health diagnoses and was taking roughly 20 pills every single day. Her main issues were feeling crippled with the exhaustion of chronic fatigue syndrome,

along with the debilitating widespread pain of fibromyalgia. These are both complex conditions, they are often misunderstood, and she had been told that there was no hope of recovery. She couldn't work, couldn't play with her kids, could barely get out of bed. Nicola also suffered from other complaints such as anxiety, depression and irritable bowel syndrome. She was so desperate to feel better and start living again that she allowed me and a BBC television crew to practically move in with her, her husband and three young children for six weeks. In this podcast, we revisit what happened and how by removing the illness label and focusing on the creation of health rather than treating disease, Nicola was pain-free by the end of those six weeks. Even more enlightening, though, is our chat about everything that Nicola has achieved since then without me.

I know you're going to find this fascinating, whether you saw the TV show or not. Nicola is a remarkable woman, and her story a truly inspirational one. Now, before we get started, as always, I do need to give a quick shout out to some of the sponsors of today's show. Vivo Barefoot, the minimalist footwear company, continue to support my podcast. I am a huge fan of Vivo Barefoot shoes and have been wearing them for many years, long before they started supporting my podcasts. I have seen them have incredible benefits both for myself and my patients with mobility, back pain, hip pain, knee pain, and so much more. I really like this brand and everything that they stand for. For listeners of my show, they continue to offer a fantastic discount.

If you go to vivobarefoot.com forward slash live more, they are giving 20% off as a one-time code for all of my podcast listeners in the UK, USA and Australia. Importantly, they do offer a 30-day free trial for new customers. So if you are not happy, you can send them back for a full refund. Perhaps you're thinking about getting a pair for yourself or even for a loved one at this festive time of year. Now Viva Barefoot Shoes are not the traditional festive gift, but one that could be of real benefit to your loved ones and for the planet, as this is a brand that takes sustainability really, really seriously.

You can go to their website to see all of the last shipping dates. The final one for express shipping is the 20th of December, depending on your country. And remember, you can get your 20% off codes by going to vivobarefoot.com forward slash live more. Now, on to today's conversation. So Nicola, welcome to the Feel Better Live More podcast. Thank you. How are you feeling? Very excited.

Yeah, a bit nervous or are you good? Absolutely, but very excited, yes. Fantastic. Well look, we have been trying to get this set up for a long period of time now. Our schedules just haven't managed to match up. But you've got an incredible story, Nicola. And not everyone who listens to this podcast will have seen Doctor in the House. You were in the second season of Doctor in the House. You had a brilliant story. And I think we should just wind it back to the beginning so people understand the concepts

of what's going on. So can you remember how you started to apply to be on the show? Do you remember what happened? remember um i'd had chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia for quite a while on top of that i'd had really bad anxiety that anxiety and depression for years off and on i wasn't actually depressed at that time but i'd had boats of depression as well and i remember one day i was just walking up to where i live which is at the top of a quite a steep hill and I was in so much pain and I was just so exhausted. And I just knew that life had to get better than how I was living it. And I happened to, my middle child was in a modelling agency

and I just happened to get an email. And I just saw this email as I'm walking up the hill. I think it was 38 at the time, feeling 98. Everything was hurting, everything was sore. And I just saw this email because I'd stopped and it just said it was on about doctor in the house and what really appealed at the time because I hadn't seen the first series so it's not something I was aware of but just my only thought at that point was the opportunity to have a doctor to come and see me at my house

was just it that was my driving force really to apply for the series yeah wow so what what does that process look like you know you initially the first season um you see that there's an opportunity to actually have a doctor come and live alongside you and your family for i guess up to six weeks is kind of what we were saying at the time. What was it that appealed to you? Was it that you were always very complimentary about your own doctors, about your GP, from recollection? I was complimentary, but I was frustrated because they really couldn't do anything for me.

I knew that, it's hard to explain, but I think I just had this fire in my belly that I knew that this should not be how I'm living for the rest of my life. I kept in my retirement, it was my 30s. I just felt so old and so much in pain. And I go to the doctors and we try different pills and then you get side effects from the pills. And I knew I was zombied. I knew.

And logically I knew, but I didn't know what to do about it. I tried looking online, but there was so much conflicting information. It leads really to inertia because you really don't have a clue. And you get told there's no hope of recovery and this is it. But I just, I knew that even though my daughters were lovely, that I didn't agree. And I didn't want to be rude and tell them that I didn't agree. Well, I think, I mean, I think the story you just mentioned there, so many things to pick up on because what you just said, there will be so many people listening to this podcast right now who feel the same way, who know something's not right with their health and what they're being told and the pills that they're being given may be helping a little bit they may simply be suppressing symptoms but a lot of people you hit this over and over again i get this on social media most days messages people saying

look what can i do you know my doctor's lovely they're trying their best but i'm no better i'm still struggling um but there was a other piece you just mentioned which really rang true with me which is you didn't want to be a fuss you didn't want um you knew they were trying to help you didn't want to be a i don't know what did you say you didn't want to be rude I didn't want to tell them they were wrong yeah and I think very much that has always been since I've known you which is it's almost what do we know we're recording this middle of October 2019 I met you and your family for the first time just over three years ago, September 2016. Do you still remember that day?

Absolutely. Tell me about it. What happened? It was just, it was such a surreal, it was just so surreal. I'd obviously done my research and I'd seen the previous episodes that you'd done on series one. And it was, I was excited. I was really scared. And I didn't really see beyond

you coming to the house i didn't really think of the cameras yeah um i didn't think of it being heard i really didn't think of any of that i just really i was just welcoming opportunity to have an effective doctor all to myself um been able to sort of listen to all my issues and try and get to the root cause of what was going on our causes was in my case so you didn't really think beyond hey I want to get on this show and I want to have the show was irrelevant to be fair at that point it wasn't about getting on television getting on television wasn't it wasn't what excited me I never shared anything about my illness with anyone other than my husband. So I didn't really

talk about it. So I didn't even, as stupid as it sounds now, the TV part of it wasn't the attraction. Yeah. And Nicola, that really makes sense to me because since I've done those two seasons, I've often reflected back on every single family who had the privilege of going to live alongside and helping. And no one was driven by being on television. And I think that's something the public don't always get is that why I always used to wonder why would somebody go through the process of having cameras in their house for six weeks, watching everything that's going on, recording everything that's going on, opening up, you know, deepest emotions, things that are going on why would they do that desperation exactly and that's what I picked up not only with your story with everyone's story people were desperate they wanted help and they thought

this might be an opportunity to get help absolutely I was desperate and I freely admit that well it was horrible it was horrible yeah I mean and looking at you today three years on it's like looking at a different person and you know we have stayed in contact so you know you're very good at staying in touch and actually sending me update texts on a regular basis which is why I did that though sorry I just interrupted but I did that because I remember you saying that we're in it together so even beyond sort of you being like obviously physically at my house anytime something new happened I was just always excited to share it with you yeah and that's why I did it it was in my head we were still together on it

yeah and it's nice I've got to say you know I love getting them every single time because I do think we started off in partnerships together. And I, as I did with every family, my vow was I am literally going to do everything within my power whilst I'm with them to see how far I can get them, how far I can help them improve, how far I can empower them with information so that when I'm no longer here, they know what to do. And obviously we've stayed in touch and it's been lovely to see your progression. So let's, for people listening, And obviously we've stayed in touch and it's been lovely to see your progression. So let's, for people listening, let's just paint a picture. Let's rewind three years. Just before you came on,

even in the first few weeks of you being on the show with me, on Doctrine and the House, how did you feel? What was going on? Can you remember now what a day used to look like for you? A day was actually endless. Every day was endless. You'd wake up in the morning because I had to get up to take the kids to school. They were all in school at that point. I used to drive to school because we'd moved house and downstairs so I needed the car because we lived further away from school. But I'd always, every morning, get out of bed. I can't even describe how that felt. It was a real mind battle just to get up. I'd take the kids to school, I'd come back and I'd be on the couch and I would stay there really till three o'clock when I picked them back up. And I think my busy time really was just trying to cut them a meal before Ian came home. And

it was just, every day was just just painful every day was just full of exhaustion I was existing I wasn't living I wasn't enjoying I wasn't happy I didn't know what really happiness was because you cannot forget that you've got this illness I mean I know with hindsight no you can but actually when I was going through it I didn't so I was always aware that I was ill although I never called it an illness I was very pedantic with my meanings. I used to say to you, I'm not ill. I live with an illness. And for me, it mattered that I said that. I think I was in massive denial, even though I couldn't deny it.

But standing up for five minutes, I'd be really sore. Sitting down, I'd be sore. I could never get comfy. And every day was like I'd go to bed in the evening and think I managed to get through another day yeah but I remember that you know because it's it's very it's a very artificial situation in some ways where there are cameras on right and you're I'm trying to take what we call a history so I'm trying to find out everything I can about you but obviously there's also cameras there they're're trying to pick up and document the story so they can tell it whenever the show finally airs.

And obviously I had been through one season, so I knew the process, but it's still, it's not the same as being in the surgery in the consultation room. But in many ways, it's, in many ways that whole environment lends itself to more depth and more you know there's something unique about being in that sort of situation when people around you there's cameras on there's mics on i don't know people open up you know and it sounds almost counterintuitive but i remember thinking because i i've got to say i found your case was very challenging for me you know i've shared that with you I didn't it was not easy none of them were easy but it was it was particularly challenging and I would spend I

would be up late most not trying to figure out how am I going to help Nicola and her family you know I knew I could but there were so many things going on and and and you had I think we counted up you had had 10 different different diagnoses from the doctors in the past few years. I think there was anxiety, depression, IBS. Sciatica. Sciatica, cyclical migraine. You had this bloating gut problem. You had these back pains.

You had fibromyalgia as a diagnosis. Hypothyroidism. There was a big list. And I remember I'm thinking, how am I going to get through? I have a very different approach. The way I look at the human body, it's very much not the way I was taught to look at it. It is for some cases, but in a lot of these sort of chronic cases like the one you had, I don't find the way that I was taught at medical school that helpful in trying to manage a condition like yours. Because what happens is you were a classic patient who had literally been picking up different diagnoses over about 10 years. You had a collection, you had a suitcase full of different diagnoses and you were on different pills for different

diagnoses, but still you were in pain, you were knackered. You were struggling. So for me, it was like, well, okay, if the medication's helping and it's helping you function, fine. But all I saw was a lady with 10 diagnoses on 20 different pills a day. Because remember, we shot that, we counted it, 20 pills a day. And despite that, you didn't really have a deep understanding of what was going on with you. You were struggling, you couldn't get out of bed, you couldn't play with your children, you had to give up working, you could barely cook for your kids, let alone play with them. And I remember thinking, it's very hard because I'm coming in with a new philosophy and how do I get

that across to you? And I don't know if you remember, I'm sure you do remember, but I remember we used that train set analogy. And I'll just explain what it was first. And then I'm interested to see what you thought of that. I got this train set and we put it on the table. And I said at the front, Nicola, this is you. This was the carriage where the driver would sit. That's you. And over the last 10 years, you've picked up, I think, nine or 10 different carriages behind you. These are all your different diagnoses. So what I'm proposing is for the next six weeks while I'm with you, let's get rid of all these diagnoses. Let's get rid of the labels that have been put on you. And let's just look at Nicola. Let's just look at you and let's figure out all the different parts in your body that I can. Let's see if we can optimise health. So in a nutshell, instead of

managing disease, I was thinking how can I help create health in Nicola? What did you think the very first time I used that analogy on you? Honestly, it didn't really matter to me in that respect. I don't think i took it in what really you was meaning i was drugged yeah i know ian got upset my husband he i know he got upset he i think he understood it way more than i did at that point upset with me or no upset he got upset because it was the first time that he felt hopeful that i could sort of improve you know he'd even I suppose everything had fallen onto him and I think he was just like wow but I think for me at that point whether it's because I was drugged or exhausted or combination of both it was more I was just thankful that you were here

and that's what mattered to me yeah well that's interesting isn't it and i think that's a message for any healthcare professional listening to this is there's something about a patient feeling that their story is being heard absolutely um and in many ways i don't know what you think i think that's the most important thing that any healthcare professional can do for their patients yeah and i think even today they still don't on a very odd occasion i have to go to the doctors it's there's no they don't listen so you just there's no point going to a time it's awful because i've come through this and i'm very thankful and very grateful for it's made me very mistrustful yeah of the like the general doctors not because they're not trying to do the best but

I still even say don't feel listened to yeah and it's beyond frustrating so it's just but it is what it is and I'm beyond grateful the fact that I'm so much better and so much well you know I've got so much more health than I ever thought I would ever would have yeah I mean it is incredible so let's actually walk through what we did then. So what did we start working on? What I loved about you though, the reason why I could just trust you from the start off is I had been told, and I know there's different interpretations, but straight away you said to me, I said to you, please don't tell me that I have to accept this. And you went, no, why would you want to accept it? Why would anyone want to accept it?

And I just loved you from that moment of sort of saying that, because had I been having it drilled into me that I had to accept, I had to accept, I had to accept. And I really couldn't do that. Now I know, I know now that some people by accepting it allows them to move forward. But for me, it meant I was giving in and I just was not going to give in and yes I fought the illness in all the wrong ways you can imagine but I still to this day don't think that for me an acceptance was never part of it yeah it's really interesting that I just want to highlight because these things can get quite emotional for people what we did Nicola, was individual and personalized for you, right? That is the approach that together we thought was going to help you. Now, another

patient with the same list of labels and diagnoses may need a different approach. Absolutely. And I think that's something that I'm really trying to change or help change within medicine is this idea that actually the name of the disease doesn't necessarily tell you how to treat it. It's not like all cases of fibromyalgia are the same. You know, there are different driving factors in different people. And if we move into an era of personalized medicine, our job, I think, as doctors is to figure out what are the important driving factors with the patient for that individual. And I think that's a key point

that often gets missed. It's like, oh, well, that's not the way to treat fibromyalgia. Well, whatever you may or may not think about the approach we took, you know, being three years ago on 20 pills a day, not been able to function, not been able to walk around the block, not been able to play with your kids, not been able to work to today where you hardly take, I mean, some days no pills, maybe one pill a day. Not even that, generally. Yeah. So you've gone from, you've reduced your pharmaceutical intake by 20 pills, which is just a phenomenal story in itself. You can now do so much more than you could ever do. And I'd love you to explain what those things are. Clearly the approach worked for you.

Absolutely. You know, so, because I know you've had a lot of criticism since you've been on, and we'll explore how you found that um but whatever happened has worked for you yes yeah beyond my wildest dreams actually and it's that's why it's so emotional because i could never envisage being here today doing this with you yeah on the other side what do you tell the listeners so we've heard sort of how bad things were paint a picture of your life today. What does it look like, you know, compared to then? Well, then, as I've said before, it was just every day was an endurance.

I didn't see any beauty in any day. It was just how do I get through this day? How do I get through this day? I didn't want to die. You know, I didn't want to die, but I didn't want to keep living the way that I was living. I just can't even describe just how difficult that was. Whereas like now, it doesn't sound so much a big deal, but I'm home educating my youngest. We pulled him out of school two years ago. Literally, as soon as I got well, we ended up removing him. And that's a challenge obviously in itself. I'm a parent governor at bulletin sixth form college and i love that and it's massively at my comfort zone because

i'm with all these super intelligent people and it's me they're just from a parent perspective but it's great and i'm also involved with my son's rugby club he plays for bulletin rugby and i'm i'm always now willing to put myself out there and try new things I'm not frightened of anything because well I am frightened but I will still push through it because it's just it is just a mental thing I'm so much more open I'm helping out with events and stuff for the club I mean just to put in perspective guys and if you haven't seen it I'd encourage you to jump onto YouTube and have a look at this episode I will link to it in the show notes for this episode but you know this is unbelievable the fact that you can actually work be a school governor you could you could barely get out of bed before and you couldn't

play with your kids so now to go and do these things is simply that's one of the nicest things that there and it's there's been a lot of big things but it's the smallest things that have really mattered the most you know like with logan i mean he was 12 when we did the show he's now nearly 16 he's six foot two but we still play a fight yeah he says he takes it easy on me I'm like no you don't because I'm very competitive with him but we like it's almost like that primal tick thing we do you know it's just it's like he regressed a little once I got better because we could play again it's gonna almost re-tap of things that you'd never got to do with you before yes you know and Zachary it's okay Zachary was born with me being ill so the guilt around that and the fact that I with the other two at least when they were very little I could do ball pills

and I could do backpacks and things like that with Zachary I was actually very lucky because I had a friend who would look after him and he ended up like being at nursery a couple of days a week because I literally could not look after him and my friend would bring him home and one day they'd like seen a frog and was watching this frog in the stream and they'd had this super super time and I was so thankful to my friend for doing that but it caught me up inside because I couldn't to go from that to I call him a little boomerang because he's with me 24 7 and I get all this extra time with him and initially I think I felt doing the home education it was my way of saying sorry to him without ever telling him because

obviously it's I'm not going to put that burden on him it's not his to hold but the guilt not being able to look after him really really hurts um but actually now he doesn't really remember that it's it was his norm and obviously our lives now have taken a very different path and it's just such a privilege to get all this extra time with all three of them you know it's lovely to be able to be a part of their lives do you think you've got a deeper appreciation of life today because of what you've been through absolutely 100 yes yeah and i guess many of us take they say life for granted we take for granted that we can get up and play with our kids and go for wars and go to our job and work hard and work late and come back and we can still function i always say i appreciate

although it's my son started playing for bolton rugby two years ago and i always said that i would never complain about standing in a wet muddy field because every every Sunday you can guarantee it's raining and it's wet and it's a bit miserable. But I love it. I love just being able to stand there and not be in pain. You know, and it's, I couldn't have done that before. Yeah. You know, little things like that. It's, you know, it's nothing just standing on a field.

It's not a big deal. But it's, I'm so grateful for the fact that I can do that. It's amazing that, you know, because when you've never experienced illness, you know, it's raining today, muddy rain, do I have to stand here and watch the football game? You went through years where you couldn't do that. So even just standing in a muddy field,

watching your son play is just a phenomenal experience. And I think there's a lesson in that for all of us is these little things that we take for granted. We don't realize how precious they are until we've lost them. Absolutely. And I felt like I lost all my 30s. You know, it's the cold weather. I used to dread the cold weather when I was ill

because it would always make the symptoms worse. I never understood why, but it always did. So there's no way. And rugby is played in winter. So there's very little nice weather in rugby you know and it's just north of england absolutely yeah that's a good part yeah because don't say it's better weather but yes you know so the other week it was absolutely raining ahead i've never seen me quite as heavy as that for as long still happy doing it absolutely well now i'm

doing the first aid well i'm trying to do the first aid but um because i was a bit freaked out when the money first started playing because i was worried about him getting injured um but it's just it's like I say you just appreciate it's the small things yeah I don't have to plan do you know how great I mean I do I actually do schedule now but I can go out I don't have to plan that's it I remember now you used to say that every little thing for going out has to be planned. You know, where you're going, what time, who's taking you. Can you remember all that? Absolutely, because I always said there's no spontaneity in illness.

Because I couldn't just decide to go out because you'd have payback. So everything had to be micromanaged. It had to be very tightly controlled. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to function the day after you know now if we decide we want to go out we can go out I can go out in the evening you know my first time of going out in the evening with Ian was actually to go and watch Pate de Velde musical in Manchester and I'd not been out in the evening for about six years yeah because I just couldn't function so the fact that I could do it was such a such a special time. When I remember, I think it was the Christmas after we finished,

we finished filming in November, September to November, and I got a card from your kids. And, you know, I can't remember the exact wording, but it was something like, I just want to say thank you. Thanks for giving us our mum back. And I've kept that card because it was just so lovely to, because, yeah, I mean, you remember how hard work it was, Doctor in the House.

I mean, it was just, it was, from my level, it was the most intense professional period in my entire life. I mean, I've never known anything like it. You know, that second season was almost six months of close to seven days a week of being on it with multiple families across the country on camera, very complex patients. I felt so guilty, you know, for so long

because I watched the fireside chat that you did, that you called me hardworking. It made me laugh. Basically, yeah, my husband would agree with you there. I said it in a respectful way. You did, but it was really funny. It was hard. It was hard, right? But I was hardworking. I know I said it in a respectful way. You did, but it was really funny. It was hard, right?

But I was hard work and I know I was hard work. And that's the only reason why I kept sending you texts saying, look, I'm doing this now, look, I'm doing this now. Because my way of saying sorry that I was so hard work. And I think the frame of mind that you're in when you're in that illness, it's, I was just so over controlling. But you had to be, right? That's what I felt.

And the thing is again it's that understanding and I didn't really understand so I could only to get well in effect I had to lose everything that I thought I knew because it wasn't working you almost had to undo yeah what you knew what I've learned scratch yeah and then start again because you told me to do the opposite of what I'd been previously taught so that took some while to assimilate yeah one thing i remember super clearly i think it was the very first day we were together um and again you read about this stuff as a doctor you get taught about it but i didn't get to see my patients in their home environment so we went for a walk that evening or late afternoon early evening we went for a walk

with the camera crew you know obviously not with the camera crew the camera crew are following us we went for a walk that evening, late afternoon, early evening. We went for a walk with the camera crew. You know, obviously not with the camera crew, the camera crew are following us going for our walk. And I knew all your symptoms and I was like, okay, let's get a real feel for this. So we went out for a walk together, ran the block. And it was just amazing to see how, yes, you were getting more and more tired, but there came a point in that walk where you couldn't talk anymore. Suddenly, I remember it, your words started to slur and your eyelids started to droop slowly. It was as if the energy in your body had just run out. Is that ringing a bell? i didn't even realize i

slowed yeah there was just i just didn't i wasn't aware you went and for me i'd been reading a lot about mitochondrial function for the previous few years and really fascinated how the health of our mitochondria impacts a whole variety of different conditions including fibromyalgia and i remember seeing that thinking to me it looks as though your mitochondria were working and suddenly your physical exertion exceeded the capacity of your mitochondria to generate energy. And suddenly then your body could no longer generate enough energy for you to speak properly and for your eyelids to work properly. And I really got a deep understanding of mitochondrial function in that moment.

Mitochondria, for people who are not familiar, they do many things in the body, but they are fundamentally the body's energy factories. That's one way of looking at it. And they help to generate energy that we need to do anything. And I saw it so clearly. I thought, oh my God, her mitochondria aren't functioning as efficiently as they should. So what you want to do on a daily basis is exceeding the capacity of where your mitochondria are currently at. So I told you something that I think was not what you've been told before. I said, I think for a few weeks, we're going to have to cut. I don't think this walking going around the block is actually helping you. It may somebody else, but I thought for you, we need to help your body recuperate and help to restore it and actually get those mitochondria working so that you can then go and do this.

Which I think was alien to what you'd been told before that, right? Absolutely. Because I was still trying to exercise with members of the gym and I would go drugged up beforehand, try and do a little bit on the treadmill and cross trainer, not even really do that much. It was really frustrating because I'd worked in a gym previously so I knew what to do and I was like sort of coaching Cam and Ian and they were losing weight and getting fitter and I was like getting fatter and slower. Do you remember what you said to me the day after you went to the gym so you would drug yourself up you would go to the gym because obviously that made you feel you've got some control you're like I'm still going to go and work out but the next day I think the next day or two you would just to the gym because obviously that made you feel you've got some control. You're like, well, I'm still going to go and work out. But the next day, I think the next day or two,

you would just, you couldn't get out of bed. Even the night, I mean, I timed it so that when I came back, I didn't have to do anything. I think what's interesting for me is that, and there's nothing wrong with this at all. You were trying to stay physically active. You were trying to go, no, I'm not going to let this beat me. I'm going to keep going. Even if it wipes me out that evening and it wipes out for the next two days and again you know a few years ago I probably would have thought that would be good advice as well but there was something about it and of course I could only get this insight by spending this much time with you it was like actually I reckon we'll be able to get there but I think we need to take a few weeks off

from this and let's really work on as I said at the start getting rid of the labels not in a derogatory way but just i find sometimes labels for a whole variety of reasons aren't that helpful they can be but sometimes they condition us that oh i have this now and i'm interested what you said at the start you know your use of language around your illness. Just remind us what you said about how you saw your illness. I saw it as a separate entity entirely. To you? To me. So I wasn't ill. I lived with an illness and that really mattered.

Doing the exercise thing, I thought very wrongly, but I thought that that was my way of putting two fingers up at the illness and I can still do it. But actually, I had no concept of how to look after my body I mean I was taught actually to ignore my body so I did. By who? Doctors. What did they say? Well there's no there is no reason for my pain so therefore I could ignore it I wasn't going to break my back I wasn't going to break a bone so the pain there is no reason for that pain. so how does that make you feel as a patient whether you're in pain you're in agony you're taking lots of codeine based painkillers opiates basically um and they're saying there's no reason

for your pain what i mean how does that make you feel a whole host of things but it's it's it's frustrating because the thing with me, I suppose, I was really lucky because, as you saw, I had a very nurturing bubble with Ian and my boys. Yeah, you've got a great family. So I was very well looked after. And actually, we'll have to talk about how Ian struggled with the recovery because that's interesting.

But I just, I was very well protected. So I didn't care if nobody else believed me. I felt believed because Ian believed me. And all I cared about was that he did. And he really did. And he actually understood it way more than I ever thought he did. When I was sort of, I was like listening to him, we had that conversation initially in the back garden.

I thought, let's see how much he actually does understand. And he just really did. And I just loved the fact that see how much he actually does understand and he just really did yeah and i just loved the fact that he just he really did understand so i didn't have what sadly a lot of people have where they feel that their illness is not believed i did feel believed but i was never the kind of person to go and tell people that i had this illness i kept it extremely private and then i put myself on television, but I didn't talk really about the illness. I didn't want to. I think I was ashamed of it and I was appalled by it and I hated it

and I hated me completely. So I didn't share anything of what I was feeling, not even in real life. There's some really real moments that I would just not cry because I thought if I cry i would never stop yeah but i felt but i was protected but some people don't feel that their illness is believed and that creates so when the doctor is saying to you there's no reason for your pain and you're feeling that pain what do you do with that so you ignore it or i did i ignored it because i thought well i know and i knew logically i was not going to hurt my body, you know, in terms of breaking anything by exercising,

but I had no concept at that point that I was causing so much damage. Yeah. It's really profound that, and it's something that I think, that as doctors, as a profession, this is one thing I don't think we've been brilliant at. Not all doctors, as a profession, this is one thing I don't think we've been brilliant at. Not all doctors, of course, but this whole idea that, you know, not taking certain things seriously,

the things that we've conventionally as a profession, and I think, I hope things are changing, the things like fibromyalgia, you know, has, you know, certainly throughout my career, I've seen many occasions where it's not taken seriously. Irritable bowel syndrome, IBS, for many years has not been taken seriously. And I think by not doing that, we really cause problems because I always say to people, you know, whatever you think of what's going on, there is a reason why a patient has turned up in front of you. There is a reason, whether you think it's a waste of time or not, which I never have thought that a patient coming in is wasting my time, genuinely never. Because even for example, if somebody comes in to see me and they've had a runny nose for two days,

right? And a lot of people will say, that's just a waste of the NHS's time. It's a waste of their money. They shouldn't be coming in. And I get that on one level, but for me, I'm always interested in that. And I'm always interested in people. I'm thinking, well, why does this person feel that after two days of a runny nose, that actually they need to be taking time off work, spend 30 minutes waiting in line in the GP until you get seen? And what is it going on in their life? What has been their upbringing? What's their health understanding? Why do they feel the way they do? Because I just believe, I believe in people and I believe that actually they're coming there. They're not, they're not trying to waste someone's money.

They're not trying to waste time. They feel that they need help for that. And you know, and someone else might not. Someone, you know, who's got a really good health understanding will spend three or four weeks with a cough and cold and never go and see their doctor. And that's great. But actually saying that these people are wasting our time i think it's a little bit derogatory if i'm honest a lot of people to be honest me included i hated going to the doctors i didn't ever want to go and see my doctor not because my doctor was awful just i didn't want to go and see my doctor yeah i didn't value myself so it was you know i just i didn't want to go and bother them yeah so when i did go it really was because I was feeling very low.

Yeah. So I remember the first, well, one of the first things we did with you was change your diet. Yeah. Because- I was so reluctant to that. I called it the no fun food diet for a while.

I remember. It's, and again, just, I want to just outline what my philosophy was. My philosophy was, look, there are multiple things here that could be contributing. I don't know which is or not, right? But let's go through your body systematically and change what we have. Let's focus on the creation of health.

So we basically change your diet to very much like a whole food, fresh food diet. So a lot of the things that you were used to having we were cutting out um we i think i spoke to you a little bit about obviously reducing your physical activity we six months we did that for did we wow six months she said not to exercise yeah i don't i mean that's incredible um i know that i felt that this bloating issue that you had i felt that you might have something called SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. And I thought that was contributing in some way to your gut function and maybe contributing to your symptoms. There's some

studies out there which suggest it might be. Again, I'm being very careful with my language because people get very inflamed with this stuff and it's very easy for this stuff to get misinterpreted but this was an approach of saying let's look at all the things that might be contributing you've been seeing doctors for years you're on 20 pills a day you're still not any better the current approach you're taking is clearly not working so let's take a different approach let's take approach that at the very least is going to do no harm absolutely you know that's always my philosophy so we made big changes to your diet yes you were resistant i do remember that i remember that day know that's always my philosophy so we made big changes to your diet yes you were

resistance i do remember that i remember that day well that's one day i actually do really remember do you absolutely do you ever watch the series do you ever watch the do you ever watch your episode i used to watch i know it sounds really sad but i used to watch it quite a lot at the beginning of my recovery just because it was a nice reminder of how well i was doing i hadn't watched it for 18 months but obviously before coming here i did watch it again what do you think when you watch it it's like i don't recognize myself to be honest and i've learned like learned so so much you know i had no idea about the power of food you know obviously with my size to me it's not like i'll be lying if i said i'm always 100% like into that diet particularly but

actually I prefer eating that way you know I don't bake the way that I used to because I know if I bake something I will eat it um yes I still like cake and I still like chocolate but it's nowhere near as before you know we don't really I mean we never I mean to be fair we always well you know we always try to cook from scratch anyway and we still do that but we don't you know we don't really i mean we never i mean to be fair we always well you know we always try to cook from scratch anyway and we still do that but we don't you know we never bought chairs and we don't use chairs and even today you know and it's initially it was like i thought i was depressed and this is this is stupid thinking but this is when you don't think right we didn't engage the boys with that diet because we kind of saw it as a punishment almost yeah isn't this fascinating but like now obviously again they're not perfect and it is a struggle getting a veg

and it's funny because they have a thing like mum don't tell me what's in it if i make a curry don't tell me what's in it because i know i'm going to put as much veg in as i can and they're still reluctant it's the ridiculous but it's like you know i'll make them i don't eat the bread but i'll make them wraps and i'll shove as many different colored veggies in as possible and i'll cut it up finally i make soups because they'll eat the soups and i can say again i blend it so they're not seeing it cameron's come around the most actually in that because he will he's like just grab my plate i'll eat it just it's fine but it's for me if i'm if i i realized me and him was out there one night we had this really nice fish and sweet potatoes imagine we're eating really nice meals

and we're giving our kids crap. What are we doing? Buying them chocolate, is that really a treat? What, we're actually putting in the bodies? You know, so to me, I said with them, what we do is kind of halfway measures, which obviously you do then get halfway results. But even Logan, it was funny because Logan is nearly 16

and he's eating so much and even he can't binge the way they used to went mom it's your fault because of healthy eating so it's like obviously because he plays rugby we're trying to encourage him to make sure he's eating you know nutritionally dense food so it just took a while to sort of think why are we eating well and we're giving our kids who we love more than anything else in this world why are we giving them rubbish we sort of feel don't we that sometimes that oh it's a punishment to have to eat well in a way that nourishes our body because our norm many of us not all of us but many people's their norm is to have a lot of highly processed um junk food or quick convenience food

and i get it people are busy life is tough you know people are rushing around i totally understand it but it's funny how we've got to that state in society where often it's seen as a punishment eating well nourishing our body with the right sort of information and fuel from foods is seen as a punishment and but it's advertising if you think i mean again with zachary we do a project where we go around the supermarkets and even he knows that all the junk stuff is usually an offer it's usually advertised and marketed really well whereas a fresh food the whole food isn't yeah the fact that you have this awareness and the fact that you and ian realize after a while hold on a minute we're having all this whole nourishing foods but we're not giving that to the kids it's that is that is

the journey we're all on right we have to figure this stuff out in our own time. I don't think anyone likes to be told what to do. Like, I think what's really exciting for me, and we will definitely explore this in the conversation, is that, you know, yes, we have text contacts and there was a bit of help after the series, but generally speaking, you have been empowered with this information. So you are responsible for your recovery. You're the one who's learned about your body. You know, the food choices I recommended were simply a trial for like four weeks, for six weeks. Let's try, let's see what happens. Does it improve your gut function? Does it improve your pain? If not, fine. But at least we can start to rule out things. i i actually like i'm a big fan actually of uh a well-managed elimination diets so i did that for six months actually yeah and

look i think of course it's best to do this with a nutrition professional wherever possible um but i think i personally feel that a well-managed elimination diets can can empower people so much in terms of what different foods might be doing to them. I've so many patients that they're like, yeah, I didn't realize every time I have dairy, my skin breaks out. That's exactly what happens with me and Zachary. And it was really interesting because when Zachary was a baby, he ended up on like sauce-free milk because I initially fed him. And again, I didn't realize I could just take dairy at my diet. So I went from breastfeeding to bottle feeding

and he had to be lactose free. And initially they said, well, just try with the yogurt. And it's only because I went, obviously doing the elimination diet, I removed that. When I put that back in, I realized it made my throat cloggy. My skin goes spotty.

Zachary's skin goes spotty. Neither of us have a huge reaction to it. But again, I know he's now on lactose-free products because I'm not, I can see the difference in his skin. For me, this is what it's about. This is about empowerment, right? This is about not telling people what they can and can't eat, but it's giving people the tools and they go, you know, I would say that the analogy for me is this, right? With anything to do with lifestyle. If someone wants to go out with their

mates on a Friday night and have a few beers, right? To unwind after the week and they stay in the pub all evening, they often know that there is going to be a price to pay on the Saturday. They're going to have a headache. They're going to be a bit fuzzy headed. They're not going to be able to function properly, but presumably they're making the decision to go out on a Friday night in that knowledge thing. I'm going to get enough enjoyment out of seeing my buddies on a Friday night to put up with the consequences tomorrow, right? On some level, they know that's going to happen. With anything I do with a patient over lifestyle, my goal is to do the same thing, is to help them understand for themselves what different choices are doing. Then once you've got that understanding, it's up to the individual.

My job is not to tell someone what to do. I'm never told, in my eyes, I've never told a patient what they should or shouldn't be doing. That's not what I feel I'm there to do. It's to empower them. And so you now figured out that when you have dairy, you know, you get clogged up, you might break out on your skin. So then it's up to you what you do with that. If at Christmas time, you decide, hey, you know what? I really want want to have this and you're happy to put it with the consequences well i feel you're i feel you should be allowed to do that and to be fair i do it and like i said it is a choice and i'm fair from perfect with it it's just i'm much more aware so if you know it's it's very rare that i i do have dairy but if i do it's a it's a deliberate choice that I'm making knowing that it's but I'm

not constantly subjecting my body to something that I know it's going to have a reaction to and that's the key really it's I limit it rather than yeah just ignore it yeah and I love that I really love that and I think you know I'm not at all just to be clear I'm not telling everyone or I'm not suggesting everyone should stop eating dairy. I'm just saying many people feel better off it. My interpretation fundamentally in a nutshell, what we did together was this. It was basically adopt the philosophy in my first book, The Four Pillar Plan, look at food, movement, sleep, and relaxation, and tweak them all to suit you and suit where you're at. But then I think because you were so unwell and because you were in so much pain and your energy was so poor, I had to give you some supplements basically to support your mitochondria. So I think that it was like this four-petal

philosophy with the short-term use of two supplements in particular that were really there to help your mitochondria function better. Is that your recollection of what happened? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And are you needing any supplementation today? Or are you sort of pretty much okay with your lifestyle?

I'm not taking any supplements at the moment. Yeah. See, and this, I think the whole issue about supplementation gets misunderstood with the public and the medical profession sometimes. Just to reiterate, and I'm just making this point particularly for the listeners here. When we use the term lifestyle medicine, I never want it to infer that people have done things to themselves. And I don't know if that's how you might have felt at the start at some point. I love the term lifestyle medicine. Initially I interpreted that as being just food. Right. And I think so many people mistake lifestyle medicine as meaning food and if anyone takes

anything away from what we're saying today I'd like them to know that actually lifestyle medicine is so empowering and it puts us back in control. And to me, that has just been phenomenal. And it's not just food. It's like you said, really what you did with us is the four pillar plan. You know, it's, and I recommend it to every single person I meet. But actually we are also, I was, I don't want to speak for anybody else. Some of the way that I lived, I massively contributed to me becoming ill. Was that deliberate? Absolutely not. You know, there was no conscious thought of, oh, I want to make myself ill.

But there's so many things actually that is it any wonder that eventually I became ill. Yeah. So we do do it to ourselves, but very much inadvertently. And there's so many things actually that is it any wonder that eventually I became ill. Yeah. So we do do it to ourselves, but very much inadvertently. And there's no blame. And initially I blamed. And this is one thing that really kills me with this illness is the guilt. The guilt haunts you. And obviously because I do have a support group and all the time it's guilt, guilt, guilt, guilt, guilt.

And it's so misplaced. Yeah. You know, and it breaks my heart actually that the number of people who feel that guilt, and I felt it too, and I still remember that I kept saying to Ian, I would not blame you in the slightest if you left me. I remember. You know, and I truly meant it, because I would not want him to have lived with me. But now I look back and think, why on earth did I say that to him?

Why was I keep pushing him away? You know, I was I was ill it wasn't done intentionally there were things there was extraneous factors that got involved that wasn't my fault but there were definitely things that I do hold myself responsible for um I know that's not everyone's case but in my case it definitely was um but I was just constantly saying I wouldn't blame you if you left if Ian got ill you know if you broke his leg I was not looking after you yeah you know and it's it's it's it's um there's so many things that come up from that because I think what you said about um life's medicine I think is

such a beautiful way of of talking about it I think that's the funnest thing for me about this whole field is that you empower people people feel that they've got a sense of agency a sense of control now over what happens rather than being at the whim and and whatever the illness wants to do you've actually got some control you taught me to listen to my body and for the first time in my life i actually started to begin slowly to take a while to understand my body and no longer ignore my body you know it your body is so clever isn't it it actually tries to tell you that things are going wrong and it is so easy to be dismissive and that in itself is empowering just taking a quick break in today's

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servings of Athletic Greens, which is worth around £70 with your first order. You can check it out at athleticgreens.com forward slash live more. You know, you mentioned about saying to Ian, you know, I wouldn't blame you if you left me. But that's a pretty profound thing for someone, for a wife to tell her husband, you've got three kids together, you live together. And I think that guilt, Nicola, is also something that I'd love to explore because you were quite, you know, you never wanted to put anyone out. You, as you say, you don't want to share much about you, to be honest, with other people. And I sensed a few weeks weeks in and you'll remember well from the way they cut the show um we had this probably an hour conversation which obviously gets shortened to a 45 second piece in the in the actual final cut of of what was shown and i remember i don't remember

the audience announced but i remember seeing that many things were starting to improve um clearly many things were not as well. And I was thinking, okay, because I see this a lot with my patients in clinic, like let's say people have been unwell for a period of time. And let's say there's, you know, 15 things are going wrong. If five of them start to get better, it's still, it can often still be a case that, yeah, things are still really bad because there's 10 things still bad because i think it's just human nature we focus on what's not going well absolutely which is why i'm a big fan of msq's medical simpson questionnaires where you can literally track it

and go we did one yeah yeah we did one where it's like okay you know three weeks ago you were scoring 80 now you're scoring 40 i get it 40 still. There's loads of stuff going on, but look. I was thrilled by that. Yeah. All those things are getting better. And I remember thinking, because I also, you know, the reality is it's a slightly artificial situation knowing that this is coming out on TV and knowing that I've only got six weeks with you. And I knew, I knew inside me somewhere that I could help you, but you know, you, you got worse first. There's no question you got worse. I did get worse, yes. There were all kinds of emotions flying around

on both sides basically. And what's, what I guess what's really hard for me is with, with every family, as you get to know people, really know them, their partners, their children, you know, it can be challenging to maintain objectivity do you know what I mean you sort of become because you became a friend yeah you know as I said obviously you were my doctor but we'd chat off camera and I thought we generally had a friendship there yeah you know obviously with Ian as well and you'd make the boys laugh and you know it's just it just felt so natural and so nice but it also makes my job then hard sometimes because you know I'm also was there to

be your doctor and at one point I remember saying and I'm interested in your perspective now having seen it recently is obviously we had that conversation where um you you left the room and quite upset and obviously I felt really bad afterwards. But I think from my side, I was trying to get across that, look, we're dealing with a lot of things here. We're dealing with your diet, your physical activity, your sleep,

but I think we've also got to deal with emotions as well. And I was trying to get across in as kind of way as I could at that time, the idea that, you know, we've got to really think about mindset as well and think about, you know, having a belief that things can get better and actually you can see the light of the tunnel. But what is your recollection of that conversation? And what was it, what was your recollection or your view now when you look back at it and see that the camera showed you, you know, walking out and storming up the stairs.

Such a diva. Honestly, I was talking bollocks. I was absolutely terrified. Yeah. Because the thing with the illness is that, just a half a spot, sorry. The thing with the illness is you know it can go worse. And I think the antibiotics are just really not me for six and one thing I'd not thought of with you being around as part of

that process was that I could actually go worse so mentally I'd gone I'd gone really down really low and I didn't understand that actually that could just be as intimate the antibiotics so I didn't have that perspective so but in my head, I genuinely thought it wasn't fear. But actually looking back, I was absolutely terrified because I didn't know where this was going to go. And I really tried not to have any expectations on you. It was a weird thing. Obviously, I wanted help, but I didn't know if you could because i've been told

so often that there was no help you know and but then it was like i said it kind of gets murky because i really liked you as a person as well as obviously as a doctor but just to have chats with you it's you know um but it was just i was absolutely scared yeah. Yeah. I was really, really scared. And I was scared for a long, long time. And I did not know how to put that fear and make it positive. Yeah. Because I still get scared sometimes, but I turn it around. So this is really key, Nicola, because I think this applies not only to you,

this applies to many people, many patients. All of us on some level, we get scared. We get scared about possibilities, particularly if we've lived a certain way for a long period of time and been told there's no hope. So do you know, I mean, are you able to look back now and go, well, how did you change from being scared to actually, you know, you're like a different person now, chatting to you, whether it's on the phone, over text, even picking you up from the station, staying, chatting to you. You feel like a different person.

Like you're still the same, you know, lovable Nicola that you were back then, but something's changed. There's a steeliness to you now in a different way. There's more, I think, I think you're kinder to yourself than you were. Yeah. What happened there i just um i think there's a i just truly hated myself so it's um i did not value my own feelings my own thoughts um i wasn't i felt worthless i felt useless i was a burden it's okay I've been told so often growing

up that you know it's my feelings didn't matter I'd been told it's funny because like again you know like mom would say oh you're really lucky to have Ian but it's like she never said but he's lucky to have you you know and I was the last in the list I didn't look after myself I didn't know even how to look after myself you know so I think a lot of it was my self-worth my self-esteem I think you might have noticed in the changing text I used to always apologize for sending a text but then I got to a point thinking why am I apologizing for sending a text that I'm deliberately choosing to send you don't have to read it you don't have to respond to it but for whatever reasons they were I wanted to share something with you so I'll wish you well you know with your books when you

did your book and stuff but I'm thinking why and it just the things just you you actually said to me as part of the show when we did the meditation thing that lady was phenomenal I didn't actually appreciate meditations at that time but you said you know in effect treat yourself like you would your friend and I was so dismissive of that and again that's wrapped around self-worth or lack of I teach my kids I always said to my kids know your worth and I had no clue to my own because I felt worthless I felt useless I was a burden what was I contributing nothing you know I had I had actually no understanding the strengths because I always say people with chronic fatigue and fibro we really are superheroes because just to get up in the morning people who've never experienced that will never know just how

how hard that is going up one flight of stairs yeah you know that was you know we i had to downsize the house we had to do those different things we ended up in the smallest room because it was nearest to the bathroom because on the top floor i just the thought coming down another flight of stairs to go to the top middle of the night i just couldn't do it and these are things that everyone takes for granted unless there's a reason that you can't you know and it's so but these people are living with this day in day out and we're not kind to ourselves we're just our inner voice is really I always know your inner voice needs to be like you're in a goddess or you're in a cheerleader because you're in your head most of the time so what are you telling yourself and mine was my enemy you know and it served that purpose very

well because it kept me down because I had just no value yeah I mean thanks for sharing that because I think we're really getting to the heart of the problem with many people here and this is it's almost a cliche isn't it you know treat yourself like you treat someone else you know and and yeah you were dismissive off it because the the right message has to come at the right time as well. And sometimes we're not ready for those messages. And, um, you know, it's fascinating hearing you say that because since, since both seasons of Doctor in the House, I've really reflected on the whole process. Um, why, you know, what was going on with people? A, why they came on the show in the first place,

and it was desperation. They were just desperate that they couldn't get help. And they thought this might be their chance of getting help. None of them wanted to really be on TV. That wasn't their drive. It just happened to be a byproduct. In order to have a doctor in your house for six weeks, you've got to go on BBC One. And it was almost as if, okay, fine, I'll do whatever it takes to get there. But I reflected back and some of this was sort of informed the four-pillar plan in some ways was that no matter what someone's condition was, whether it was fibromyalgia, whether it was panic attacks, whether it was insomnia, whether it was someone's hormonal issues, I still fundamentally took the same approach. It was very much less about a disease-focused model.

It's more on a health creation model. It's like, okay, whatever it is, let's start with these four pillars. Let's figure out what's going on here. Let's try and just improve a little bit, little by little in each pillar. And I saw, yes, I had to do some extra things like you, I need to give you some supplements to help you. I had to do that with some other patients on the show as well. But ultimately, the fundamental core of what I did was the same. And I actually think the human body actually requires the same ingredients to thrive. And if we start focusing on that, that's when we're going to get a healthy, happy population rather than focus on what's the name of this condition? What is now the treatment for once

you've got that label, how do we treat you? So it's a slightly different way of looking at it. But the other thing that really dawned on me is when I saw people really start to make shifts, and I think this is certainly the case for you. And I, you know, I wonder if you would agree with this or not, but the real shifts starts because yes, in six weeks you were pain-free, right? Your fibromyalgia pain wasn't there anymore, which is just amazing to be able to showcase that. So, you know, four or 5 million people in the UK, you know, 70 countries around the world it's gone to. It's amazing to be able to showcase what is possible. But I realized actually it's that emotional piece that is where the big shifts happen. Once we start treating ourselves better, once we understand where that comes from,

that's where the real change starts to happen um is that what you found in your own story yeah and it took a while as it took i mean this has been like an involvement and i'm still evolving with it it's it's i mean i think it was good 18 months down the line before i even began to sort of before I even began to sort of see myself differently. Yeah. You know, so it's a very slow thing, but definitely, yeah.

You did some things in London, didn't you, afterwards? I think, I remember you would, I mean, first of all, the text you sent me, I love. The one I really remember was, I think I asked you guys when the six weeks I was with you, what is something you would love to do? And you said there's a hill nearby called Rivington Pike. I'd love to walk up there with Ian and the kids. And we didn't get there in six weeks. We didn't get there by the end of the show. But I remember, I don't know, was it Easter?

It was Easter Sunday. That was it. It was Easter Sunday. So we finished filming in November of 2016. And then in Easter of 2017, I think, yeah, it was Easter Sunday. You sent me a picture. And I remember showing it to my wife. I was like, oh my God, Nicholas at the top of Remington Pike with a big smile on your face with your kids. And I just thought it was just so satisfying. I mean, any healthcare professional listening, any doctor listening knows that feeling when actually you know you can really help um people achieve their dreams and break free from the things that are holding them back in many ways and you know did you when you got to the

bottom when before you went on your embarkment up to the top did you know you were going to be able to do it yes you just knew yeah knew? Yeah. And the thing is, the weird thing with that, obviously, is that physically I was a lot stronger, but mentally I actually wasn't. It took a lot longer for, definitely the emotional stuff took a lot longer. But I knew physically I would be able to do it and I wouldn't have paid back for it.

And I did, it was, well, still, I actually hadn't fully recovered at that point because it was the following April and I hadn't actually, but I'd gotten to a point obviously where I could do that pike. It's these little wins, right? Which aren't so little, but they just help you in the recovery process.

You're like, oh my God, I can do that now. Yes. And you need that. And I probably get sort of lambasted for this, but recovery is quite traumatic. It's beautiful and it's great and it was like being reborn but that's also scary and traumatic in some respects too because everything changes you know everybody else has to adapt to me changing i think i see it perhaps least of all

of like my family yeah um but yeah it was it was to get to the top of there which I've not been able to do for quite a number of years that was a huge like yes moment yeah for sure now you mentioned people have to adapt when you recover and earlier on in the conversation you hinted that maybe that has been challenging for Ian it has yeah yeah so this is really really interesting to me because I see this a lot with people um so why don't you share as much you're you're you're happy to um how has you getting better impacted things with your husband in every way that you can imagine it's impacted nothing I mean don't get me wrong and he he's he's thrilled that I'm well but he was used to having me be the thing with Ian is when he met me I was broken I was already broken at 17 I met him at 17 you know um at that point I had depression anxiety so and he came along and the thing is I never wanted a boyfriend at 17 I

was not interested in boys at that time because I'd seen relationships very detrimentally so in my idea I was going to be this little feminist going traveling the world and being a language teacher that's what my aim was I've always loved languages I've always loved learning about different cultures still do but my aim was to actually be a teacher then I walked into college and I met Ian and it was just like I mean it's a little bit for sight and i know people don't believe in it but i truly believe in it because i looked at ian and it was like there's just something about this guy that i really want to know and it was just very mental like head level not even like physically stuff it was more there's something about him and he was just reading

a newspaper wearing a really horrible top but it was it was a bit of a naff top and like but you saw through the bad stuff i saw through that and the crappy newspaper was reading and i thought there's something about him that i really want to know and then he he wiped college for three days wrong and left me waiting for three days so it was like where is he and my friend she was called etty and she was like he'll come back he'll come back he ended up working so he went to college to work and then so but when he met me I was and he really was it was like movies it was when you see a typical love story in the movies it was just like that I've never to this day I have never been loved the way that he loves me. You know, and I love him. But he's just been so generous with that.

But he likes fixing things. Yeah. And he wanted desperately to fix me. So he would, and I think he struggled with the notion that actually the only person who could fix me was me ultimately. So we got into obviously a routine and he'd he'd care for me he'd look after me he'd he never he never complained how that guy did not complain once i have no idea because i'd have been horrendous had it been him you know so but he had to suddenly

get used to me being stronger to me wanting to do things on my own he was always with me you know and i still want him with me it's not about wanting with me but i can do things on my own. He was always with me, you know, and I still want him with me. It's not about wanting him with me, but I can do things on my own. You know, I can put myself out there more now and I can, I love any opportunity. I can't say get out of my comfort zone. I will take it because it's thrilling and you learn and you grow.

But he's really struggled with knowing what his place is in our relationship. Because it's changed. It's fundamentally changed. But it's, you know, he's really struggled with knowing what his place is in our relationship. Because it's changed. It's fundamentally changed. But it's, you know, he's the first, obviously, he doesn't want me ill. It's not about him wanting me ill. It's just, what does he do when, because it's 26 years we've been together now. Congratulations.

Thank you. We've been married for 20, is it 20 years? Yeah, 20 years we've been married. That's impressive. And, you know, it's just what what does he do what's his role all of a sudden i'm stronger not sudden but i'm stronger and you know he would tell me his opinion of things and i would back off from my own opinion and it's like knowing you're wrong and i'll argue sometimes with him and say i don don't agree. So it's having to evolve, right? He's having to really change.

And how's he finding that? He doesn't find it difficult sometimes because, you know, it's like in a way he's got this whole new person. And he's had to adapt and he sees it more than I do. I'm more independent. I am stronger. I'm happy wronging. I didn't know what happiness was.

It's taken me 42 years to get to feeling happy and i'm happy yeah you know and it's just and it shows and he loves it but he was always doing things for me and i don't need him to be my carer i hated him being my carer but that changes things really good it does and you see this over and over again and it's again this can sometimes limit people's recovery because as they go down this path it changes the dynamic in a relationship and often people don't want that to change um it's really funny because he was always the one who embraced change and i was very fearful of it now i love change and he's got a bit more reticent with it you know but it's like our whole relationship changed.

We could do more things together. Like, you know, even intimacy, that was such a, it was, it's difficult to be intimate with someone when it's painful. You're sawing, you're exhausted. So he quite enjoyed that change because we could be more intimate because, you know, it was like rediscovering ourselves again. And it was, it wasn't my carer yeah you know and big shifts big fundamental shifts yeah going out in the evening yeah you know it's his birthday in like two days so we're actually

going away to the lake so for night and doesn't know it yet um things like that which i couldn't do before you know so our relationship has it's not that it's got weakened it's actually stronger it's just he's had to do a lot of the adapting yeah and i'm loving it and sometimes it's like a little bit whoa slow down a little yeah it's all new i appreciate you sharing that nicola because i think there'll definitely be people listening to this who will resonate with that and actually i think it gives gives them a lot of hope and a lot of insight as to, you know, one of the most powerful things I've seen in my many years of seeing patients now is that knowing you're not alone makes a huge difference. You know, if I say to someone, someone comes to see me and I say, yeah, you know what, you're the, you know, I've seen many people

just like you this week, who've got a similar problem. It is amazing. You can see the shoulders drop a little bit and then just get a little bit happier on one level in the sense that not because they want other people to suffer, but because they know, oh God, in my head, I was the only one suffering like this. And so I think some people hearing that will be like, all right, okay, so it's not just me. As you say, recovery is hard. And you said something there, you said, you'll probably get lambasted for that. And I want to sort of dive in there because I think that's a really key point, something that we both had to face in very different ways by having such mainstream exposure on BBC One is the wrath of people on social media. Absolutely.

And I know you found that incredibly hard so i wonder if you could share some of the things that happened at the time and a what happened what was your reaction and also if you if that was happening today given how much stronger you now are compared to then do you think your reaction would be different today than it was like bring it on today today today i had to bring it on but back then back then it was awful because when i say awful i'm particularly talking about the fibro community not so much the me community i mean to be honest they're driving nuts i'll be totally honest which is why i ended up setting up my own group but like the fibro community after the show it was like she can't be ill she's wearing makeup um well yes I had a camera in my house I know I know I'm fat I know I'm not pretty makeup makes me feel good it's a

very unfeminist thing to say but I like makeup I've always liked makeup so why should I change it because the tv programs are but obviously I did want to feel that I looked good. So yes, I wore makeup. You know, the house was clean. Yes. Again, we had cameras. I also had Ian and a 17-year-old at that time. He was more than able to help clean the house.

So obviously, I mean, you have a sense of pride. Are they making an insinuation that...'re saying that i wasn't ill that i couldn't have had fibro because you've got a clean house because i could do those things um i didn't have fibro because the you know the the whole thing about negating my illness what really really sucked at the time was not only are you negating my illness that i shouldn't have to justify to anyone you're also negating my children's experiences. And, you know, nobody knew that, you know, we ended up moving house and we ended up downsizing because we couldn't cope in a bigger house because we couldn't keep on top of everything

because Ian was working full time and stuff. You know, so we had to sacrifice so much. Like I said, Zachary had never known me to be well. So yes, they could come at me and to a point i kind of not expected it because i weren't really tired to even deal with that it was just that don't respond and i really tried hard not responding but sometimes i did particularly when things like um oh wrong and should have taken her to the toilet what would that have proven like seriously what would that have proven like seriously what

would that have proven you know i mean some accusations that your kids as well i think about yeah they said that um that they obviously like the camera crew put words in my son's mouth well no none of that and what i know your kids you can't make them say anything no but what kind of parent would i be if i'd allowed someone to tell my kids what to say? Yeah. You know, and that was harsh. How hard was it? That was very hard.

And also not only that, they had this, there were millions of voices in my head, you'll regress, you'll regress, you'll regress, you'll get it back, you'll get it back. It's not a recovery. You'll get it back, you'll get it back. But they were saying that? They were saying I'd get it back you'll get it back it's not a recovery you'll get it back you'll get it back they were saying that they were saying i'd get it back and for so long if i had a twinge

is it coming back yeah that fear was huge i mean on the flip side of that i met some i've met some amazing amazing people and we're no friends yeah um but at that time rather than taking all the positives and there were many right and there were many and you know what the beauty of it is now i've become really close friends to a couple of people that i would not have met had i not had the me and fibro particularly one's a doctor actually called mike um and he's been he's been a huge support for me this entire time and we actually know you go and visit him and his family in dorset wow because we've become really close and then with other friends as well um but for so long and he actually he was instrumental actually in helping me because he'd also had me and his profession failed him and he was the only person

that i could talk to about recovery and about the illness because when i was there i didn't know a single other person who'd had it yeah so it was very isolating just because i didn't know anybody else and then the stuff i'd seen online was so abysmal and just you know like to me again this is just my opinion but i just i don't see the point in having groups where everyone's just saying how rotten they feel because those with those illnesses know exactly how rotten it is so so I just think what you're actually doing by constantly reading other people's pain and misery is that's just making you feel worse yeah so I don't like I personally do not like that um despite being pain-free at that time um did you ever when you were getting attacked did you regret going on the show no because look where it got me I said to you I think right to begin I wanted two things first I always I wanted help for myself

and if I got help and I progressed I wanted to be able to help other people and I can do that and that was my passion right from the beginning so I have absolutely no regrets if I hadn't done the show and I hadn't met you I would still be ill and I'd probably be a lot worse yeah so how can I regret yeah it's interesting you know you're sharing um the experiences and I've reflected on this because you know as we've as I've told you and I've spoken about on this podcast before, I got quite viciously attacked online. Again, 99% was fantastic, really positive. A lot of people saying, oh man, this has really inspired me.

Loads of people with a variety of different conditions. I still, even this week, I got a message from someone with fibromyalgia or who was previously diagnosed with fibromyalgia and said, look, I saw that show three years ago or two and a half years ago and it really inspired me. And bit by bit, I've been making changes and I'm just a completely different person today. And it's so lovely because it's nice to remember those, that it did inspire thousands of people, tens of thousands of people

to make positive changes. But I think what often happens is that if you have been told you're unwell, there's nothing you can do and that you have fibromyalgia and all you can do is take these painkillers and there's just not much else we can offer. I was just trying to put my head in other people's heads and thinking, if you just watch, yes, it was a tv documentary but let's say i've just watched a tv show where somebody has actually got rid of their pain in six weeks it's almost too much to bear i would imagine it almost it's almost too much to watch that happen you can either go one you can either go oh that's really inspirational i'm going to start trying or you can go that's just a con that's just that's just not real. I think people saw it as my success was their failure.

Yeah. Which really was not at all what I wanted, what I even envisaged. But also, I think it's important for both of us to say, we don't control the editing process. For each one-hour episode, we shot 130 hours of footage for a one hour episode but not only that as great as the getting rid of fibro was in terms of my movement

the actual fatigue was worse yeah after the show stopped running so obviously there's there's been so many gaps which is why i just love the opportunity to do this with you today because it gives us that opportunity to fill those gaps in you know um I actually as silly as it sounds I didn't appreciate being fibro free until the exhaustion lifted yeah and I kind of noticed things with hindsight and how did it live what do you know but I'm really interested as to you've kind of you've come on leaps and bounds since we finished working together as it were in that sort of traditional doctor patient capacity and you've figured out a lot of stuff yourself and I know you've reflected back on a few things that I said to you back then and be like you know what I wasn't ready to hear it then but actually I can

now see how how important it was I'm really interested in this how have you started to be kind to yourself um i'll give you a really good example it's a bit of a long one when we first removed zachary from school he was seven and initially it was supposed to have been temporary so my all my all aim was that um he would reate back into school as if he'd never left. Now he's extremely academic, Zach. So he was out of school for about seven months. The head actually changed to the same school he was in. So we tried him back in there.

Now we succeeded. He went back to school. He was still top of his class. I was having two periods a month because I just stressed myself out so, so badly. And as I said, it's a bit long-winded but then when i took him out again the second time because obviously responsibility is huge to home educate it is a huge responsibility and it's when i take it extremely seriously um but when i took him out the second time i thought this is silly because my iron levels actually went lower from before doctor in the house when I got retested because what I've achieved that exactly was fine he was just as clever he was

just as able but what was I doing to me and what I realized through that is what is perfection and who is perfect you know who is perfect and I think there's there's been lots of things where I could always be prettier I could always be thinner I could always be prettier. I could always be thinner. I could always be a better wife. I could always be a better mum. I could always be a better friend. But to what degree? So I then began to realise that actually I needed to take care of me so that I can take care of the people that I love in a much more efficient way without it being detrimental to my own health. And it was more like, you know, actually, you know, I'm still home-edding. I'm going to home-edding right through to college. And the responsibility is still the same, but I'm not making myself

feel in the process. You know, it's, I'm kinder because I don't feel the need to be perfect anymore. Again, it's having that self-worth. The more that I started to believe in just, like, I'm just a human being. You know, I'm not, I'm not, I have, obviously I have this, and I'm sure you'll know as well, I have never yet actually met anyone with ME who has a type B personality. We're all type A. We're all very driven, very motivated, very passionate.

And we always, I had so many high expectations of myself. I would never place expectations I had of myself on anybody else around me. But I was always striving to be more than I was because what I was wasn't good enough so when I kind of realized what I'd done with Zach yeah he went back to school and yes he was just as clever as he'd always been but the cost to me then at that point was huge I thought this is silly this is really silly what am I doing so actually I realized bit by bit that I needed to look after me and again it's that thing about self-care I go on about self-care constantly because actually self-care is not selfish

we need and you've taught me that through your books as well but you know we need to be able to take time out for ourselves we need to do what nourishes our souls that we can give back to the ones that we love actually better you know and and I think it's just the more the more I started to believe in myself and it's not cocky either you know I wouldn't like to think I'm all of a sudden I'm you know it's not about being cocky it's just actually I'm I'm okay I'm a nice person and no I'm not perfect but I don't care and that's the thing really I just don't care now about being more than I am because actually I'm happy with who I am and I'm not at war with myself. You're really powerful Nicolette I mean it's amazing to see the insights you've had over the past few years um there's so many little wins on the way which you've had over the past few years um there's so many little wins on the way which you've

you know so you know so gratefully shared with me uh I love getting these texts from you whether it's Rivington Pike whether it's something else that you've done or you've gone down to London and met someone or you know that pink concert I have to say about that pink well you've got the pink t-shirt on I can see world tour 2019 you're a huge fan. Tell me what was going on there. It was a very bittersweet moment because she actually performed Closer to Home several years back. I can't remember the timeline. Before Doctor in the House.

Before Doctor in the House. And just to be clear, you're a huge Pink fan. I'm actually a huge Pink fan. Favorite artist? Yes. I just think she's, when you talk about inspiration,

to me, she's inspirational. But I couldn't go to a concert because at that time I couldn't the anxiety was huge at the ME I don't even think that I'd been diagnosed at that point because it took a long time there was just no way I could go into that concert but I could hear music from where I lived and it was like so I tried to listen to music but I couldn't go and then she knows last year she was well she was still she was halfway through American tour last year when she knows coming to Europe um and I was like the tickets were being released near my birthday and I can't say I've gotta see pink I've gotta see pink I see pink obviously they're quite costly and there's always

other things to spend money on and that's just I even said to my husband I said I don't care if you can get me to Liverpool, the arena in Liverpool, I'm quite happy to sit outside and just listen to this woman sing. I really don't care. So he kind of like, okay. But what I hadn't known, and this is so touching for my son, is Cameron's studying maths at degree level. So he was at Salford Uni and he should be doing his lecture

and he's trying to buy me tickets and he actually managed to buy me tickets and some really good seats and it was just and obviously he gave me the tickets on my birthday and I think I just cried for about an hour so to go and what was sweet as well is Ian was willing to sort of drive down to London we stayed overnight we saw the concert um so you went to see her in London went to see her in London because we couldn't do Liverpool one because of his work because he's a teacher so it was just so he was he was more than happy to drive me down to London Cameron was obviously looking after the other two boys also I could just so I could go and see Pink you know what is it what did that symbolize to you the fact you know just for people

who don't understand I mean what is it about that that actually made you feel so good is it that you couldn't do it before is that you couldn't be in arena with that many people what what was it it was everything it was the fact I could not have gone um to a concert when I was ill and the anxiety was all I couldn't even go to a supermarket one point my anxiety I could not be around people and I was in this huge obviously Wembley arena and there was like 80,000 people there and i felt like it was just me and her you know it's just i managed to really just i wanted to absorb every moment and it just went by so fast every moment over singing and the show and everything um and it was just i've drowned out the fact

there was 80 000 people yeah and Yeah. And I've got interviews, poor Ian is like looking through the lens. Cause I didn't want to have the camera in front of me. I just wanted to watch. You want to be present. You want it to be mindful, right? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Yeah. Isn't that, isn't that, I mean, it's just full circle reminds me of that mindfulness class we try to go to in Manchester a few weeks in, which didn't go so well. But it made it but but what you're demonstrating is you're at Pink in the full throes of your recovery able to have the energy to go to London able to be around thousands and thousands of people and be fully present in the experience right yeah and that's what we're going through in my head did you have I know at the start you

you had some lyrics I think was on your phone that you wanted to share is it from pink it is and actually it's from a it's from a like a new album actually one not um not even i don't know what they are so share away and it's it's called um happy i think it sounds called happy and i think it describes my journey kind of perfectly from like the beginning it was in because she's just like i don't want to live this way forever keep telling myself that I'll get better every time I try I always stop me maybe I'm just scared to be happy and I think that really at that point for me you know I I knew life could be better than how I was living it I just knew I just didn't have a clue what to do and then obviously that fear set in um and like i said i didn't even know what happiness was really you know not the way that i experience it now and it's just so that those lyrics

just really spoke volumes to me i thought that really describes my journey yeah you know it's just yeah the beautiful lyrics and obviously it really i can't sing it because i can't sing it it's like we'll do that next time we'll do that for round two but nicola this is a really inspiring way to sort of close off this conversation i think i think I can't sing it for you because I can't sing it. We'll do that next time. We'll do that for round two. But Nicola, this is a really inspiring way to sort of close off this conversation. I think your story is absolutely incredible. Did I think you'd be here today from where you were three years ago?

I don't know, probably not. I probably hadn't even thought what it would be like. I was just trying to see in six weeks, can I get you to a better place? Can I help you understand a bit better what's going on in your own body so you can start making those changes yourself reflecting on everything you know reflecting back on the last three years what were the key moments for you what are the moments do you think for you that has led to this

phenomenal change that you've experienced in your own life and your own health i think it was truly understanding lifestyle medicine i think it was having to really examine my personality um like they say all the expectations being you know being so harsh as daft as it sounds like i said you know i had no idea no clue that food is medicine you know that's been a whole revelation on its own just food is so powerful and i just didn't know that um and it's i mean that and it doesn't happen overnight i think as well you know we do say if you eat if you eat well um you do feel the benefit for it i think people with chronically ill bodies it that can take time

because i stuck to the diet even though i didn't feel better on it for a long time it's only when you go off it and then go back on it that you realize actually so it's sometimes i think we need to be patient um and it was just more like i said it's it's a whole thing of as daft as it sounds i think it's just i'm happy with me and it just sounds really silly to say but we put because we end up having such low self-esteem that we're fighting ourselves before we even begin to try and fight for our health and also can I just say in terms of that language the language that we use we keep saying that people are warriors and they're fighters and but actually in terms of me are you strong absolutely to live with what you live with every single day yes you are strong but when you're using terminology which is used for like wars and things like that think about what you're actually

doing to your body there i always say no with me and like fibro you kind of have to put yourself in like a warm snuggly cuddle you do have to be really kind to yourself not be aggressive in your quest to get well you actually need to be much softer yeah you know you can't fight this the way that you know you can't go into a boxing ring and just punch somebody it's just not going to work you actually help yourself more by being kinder to yourself and lowering some of those ridiculous expectations. That's so incredibly powerful. And for me as a doctor, it's so insightful to hear that because I would never have understood that. I mean, that is from a sufferer's perspective, someone who has actually suffered and has come out the other side and continues to find out what

that other side actually can look like. Hearing that perspective is incredible. You know, I hadn't, I do agree with your language is super, super important. I think, I think there's something about you, the fact that you actually never said I am ill, but I am living with an illness. Even back then you had that separation, which I think has stood you in very good stead because although it did in many ways, you never let the language the way you use it you never let it really define you you never said i am the illness you were you're always slightly separate from it and i've got to say i think that has probably been an instrumental point in your recovery the fact that you didn't let it define you um i know on some

level you did let it define you but you wouldn't with your language, which I think is very, very important. But yeah, saying you're a fighter, I think many of us would say, wouldn't see anything wrong with that. And I know you're a very kind and compassionate lady. You're not necessarily saying there's something wrong with that. You're just expressing your viewpoint and how you found it. And I've got to say, you know, you are putting back in, I mean, as you said, those two things that you wanted, help for yourself, but also you wanted to help other people if you do get the help that you wanted. And you're doing that. You've got a thriving Facebook group now.

Can you tell people about that? Yeah, it was Ian's fault. He actually set the group up just before the show aired in June. It's called To Be A Better Me. And obviously it's a play on words because obviously it's like to be a better me and obviously it's play on words because obviously it's like to be better me but me obviously in capital letters meaning obviously the illness um and we've just got it's it is a small group because I'm very choosy um it's for I always say the way I say you know we can reach out on a bad day but we don't talk about how the

illness is making us feel on a daily basis because everyone who's in that group knows very intimately what those illnesses feel like um so the group really is just there that we can share in effect it's all about lifestyle medicine yeah you know things that distracts us things that can bring us joy because actually you can live ironically you can live well through illness i never knew how to do that um you know using distraction techniques using the breathing breathing so powerful you know and i never again i was very dismissive with that i actually i still to this day i use deep breathing methods um i don't meditate now i used to i don't meditate now because i found i can just go for a walk and do some deep breathing i can watch television and do some deep breathing and that treats your brain into feeling calm anyway

so it's not necessarily although i do value meditation it's not necessarily meditation it's what's going on behind the scenes it's what you found what works for you right yeah you found what works for you yeah you know it's just the group really the group is lovely because it's just it's a welcoming place that people could and again as well i don't know whether you're aware it's if you have mild me people on the more severe end can be very critical and in a great that's just not allowed because no matter whether you're on the mild spectrum or the more severe spectrum there are difficulties in each stage so i don't define whether someone has it mildly you can still work to somebody who's bed bound because each comes with its own struggle for people who are listening and feel inspired by you and your story and there will be many nicola and i hope these days you can see

that in a way that maybe you couldn't have a few years ago i don't see it as inspiring to my eyes i still don't see it as inspirational but it's nice that you say it and i do appreciate that yeah i mean i think people will i think many people will be thinking okay that's i want that journey for me even though everyone has to find their own journey but what is the name of the group if people want to find it and actually request if they can join and have access to it it's called to be a better me so they just go to Facebook and type in Facebook to be yeah type it in it's like to do it was a capital T and capital M E yeah and we'll link to it in the show notes page of this episode as well so if people do

want that help and support they can try and find it there and can i just say as well in terms of recovery what people really need to know is the biggest thing with fatigue is consistency you do need to be consistent when you're trying to gain in health you do need to be persistent and by do you need to be patient i think those three things as well are key to any recovery yeah i mean thanks for sharing that i was about to ask you maybe i mean thanks for sharing that i was about to ask you maybe this is the answer to that i was going to ask you um for someone listening to this whether it's me fibromyalgia anxiety depression any sort of health issue that they're struggling with and they feel you know i can't go on you know how much longer am

i going to have to suffer with this um they can't see light at the end of the tunnel you know you've been there you've been to some really dark places and you've come out the other side what would you say to those people listening who need a bit of support i would say that how you're feeling now doesn't necessarily mean you'll feel this forever um ignore all the stuff that you get told concentrate on your body and try and understand your body make it your friend not your enemy read your books and they really do help um and just know that actually I'm living a life and it's not extravagant or anything like that, but I'm doing things now that I never thought possible and I'm happier and content. And if I can do it, anyone can do it.

You know, yes, obviously I got lucky because you came into my life and kick-started it. But as you said, beyond that, I've had to really figure out a lot of it on my own. And it does take time, but you can do it. But you've got to have that, if you've got that fire in your belly that says that things can get better, you know, it's a very complicated illness. But things can get better. And I think we need to shoot it from the rooftops

when people do get better because it is possible. It's just it's not really common knowledge. And that's the saddest thing of all really it's just it's not out there yeah but you'll do your bit to help it get out trying very small way yeah and look nicola i think i think you know it's a big moment having you on the podcast i think you know three years has been a huge huge huge journey you've been on. I think sharing certain elements of that is going to be so powerful, people. I've never had someone like you on the podcast before, you know, and I've never had a patient story. It's something that I've thought long and hard about. So I thought, would it be beneficial for people to hear actually

someone who's suffered and come out the other side? We'll find out what people think, you know, I'm sure people will be kind and compassionate. There's nothing I think to disagree with in terms of what you said, you're sharing your experience. I actually don't mind anymore. I'm not, you know, people don't have to agree. Yeah. And I know people don't have to agree. This is just my story. And it's such a privilege to be able to say it my way so you know thank you so much for that hey not at all nicola thanks for coming over to my house today thanks for sparing the time um putting the pink t-shirt on absolutely coming here to empower to share your story i think people will

join the group um i i'm looking forward to seeing what people think um what the various things that you've talked about from your experience i'm sure they're going to resonate with so many people. Nicola, anything you're looking forward to this year in particular? And it sounds like you've got a weekend away with your husband this weekend, which sounds brilliant. Yeah, I'm taking him to the lakes.

We're going overnight and Cameron's babies. It's just, do you know what? I enjoy everything. And that's the thing. It's, you can always find beauty when you want to. And like I said, I used to always just wear black and i still wear black but i like colors yeah so my life's colorful and i said that a while back you know and it's life should be enjoyed it shouldn't just be in existence and i'm grateful that i wake up every day and there's always beauty there and it hasn't

been smooth running but it's there's always going to be challenges but it's somebody wise not too very fair for me said it's how you deal with those challenges so it's just i've gotten i've become more educated on how to look after myself in a much more healthier way nicola inspirational story um you have certainly taught me more than i have taught you and you may surprise you that but you really have your story certainly taught me more than I have taught you. And you may surprise you that, but you really have. Your story has taught me a lot about what it means to be healthy, what it means to be ill, how you can recover. Thank you for sharing your experiences with me. Thank you for coming on the podcast. And hopefully we'll be able to follow up on this at some point in the future. Thank you very much.

That concludes today's episode of the feel better live more podcast what an inspirational story once again a huge thanks to nicola for agreeing to open up and share her story i think she spoke with remarkable honesty and i really hope her message resonated with you and has left you feeling inspired and optimistic and what did you think about her closing message? How you are feeling now is not the way you will feel forever. I think that is a powerful sentiment and one that we can all reflect upon from time to time. Please do let Nicola and I know what you thought of today's show on social media. Nicola's group on Facebook is To Be A

Better Me. M-E is with a capital M and a capital E. On Instagram, she is NJ Singleton. And on Twitter, she is at NicolaSingleT06. Of course, I'm at DrChatterjeeUK on Twitter and at DrChatterjee on Facebook and Instagram. If you want to actually watch the documentary that Nicola and I took part in, do go and visit the show notes page or a link to the entire episode. For this week, it is drchatterjee.com forward slash 87. You will see the show on there

as well as links to press and media articles about the show, some mainstream media commentary, as well as a link to the Facebook group that Nicola runs to try and pay it forward and help others. Many people are getting incredible support on her Facebook group, so do go and check it out. Now on the conversation today, Nicola mentioned my books and how much they have helped her, but also members of her community and many of her friends. My first book, The Four Pillar Plan, outlines my overall philosophy on health and pretty much summarizes a large part of the approach that I took with Nicola. It is full of practical take-home tips to help

give you a blueprint for living well in the 21st century. My second book is called The Stress Solution, Four Steps to a Happier and Calmer You. Many of us are feeling overwhelmed these days and I wrote this book to help you identify where stress lives in your life, but most importantly to give you practical tools that you can apply immediately in your life to feel happier and calmer. And of course, my very latest book, Feel Better in Five, is coming out in two weeks here in the UK. And without question, it's my most practical and accessible health book to date. All of the books are available as paperbacks, eBooks, but also as audio books, which I narrate. Don't forget guys that this

conversation is available to watch in full on YouTube. The best way to find my channel is to go to drchastity.com forward slash YouTube. And if you do enjoy my weekly shows, please do take a minute to leave a review on Apple podcasts or whichever platform you listen to podcasts on. You can also help me spread the word by telling your friends and family about the show. A big thank you to Richard Hughes for editing and Vinata Chatterjee for producing this week's podcast. That is it for today. I hope you have a fabulous week. Make sure you hit press subscribe and I'll be back in one week's time with my latest episode. Remember,

you are the architects of your own health. Making lifestyle changes always worth it because when you feel better, you live more. I'll see you next time. Thank you.