Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - A 102-year-old Doctor’s Secrets to Health and Happiness at Every Age with Dr Gladys McGarey #394

Episode Date: October 17, 2023

Aged 102 (and a half!) years, today’s guest is the oldest person I’ve welcomed onto the show. Dr Gladys McGarey is co-founder of the American Holistic Medical Association and author of the fantastic new book, The Well-Lived Life: A 102-year-old Doctor’s Secrets to Health and Happiness at Every Age. Many people consider Gladys to be the ‘mother of holistic medicine’. For years now, she has been trying to spread the message that health is not just physical – it involves mental, emotional and spiritual elements in equal measure.   Her message is that living a long and healthy life isn’t about the right diet, or taking vitamins and supplements. Instead, it requires a shift in perspective. A long life is all very well, but what are you living for?   For many people today, finding one’s purpose in life feels like an optional extra when we’re busy working, raising children or caring for parents. It can be hard to know who we really are or what we want out of life. But Gladys insists we should still strive to identify our reason for getting out of bed every morning. And we should realise that all of life’s experiences exist to teach us something.   Gladys is a wonderful storyteller, who uses examples and anecdotes from her own, purpose-driven life to explain the secrets that she shares in her book. She reveals how the devastation of her husband asking for a divorce, when she was 70, eventually became her strength. Rather than stay a victim of heartbreak, she made a choice to move forward and help others. And that’s a common theme that comes up in this conversation – the fact that we always have a choice. This is a wonderful, life-affirming conversation about the very essence of life and health. It was a real privilege and honour to talk to Gladys - I hope you enjoy listening. Support the podcast and enjoy Ad-Free episodes. Try FREE for 7 days on Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/feelbetterlivemore. For other podcast platforms go to https://fblm.supercast.com. Thanks to our sponsors: https://drinkag1.com/livemore https://.calm.com/livemore Show notes https://drchatterjee.com/394 DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or qualified healthcare provider. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

When you're in a situation where you really think life has ended, it hasn't. You have to stop and give it time for the message to come to you, because it's there. You know, we all have hard times. I see pain as our teachers. We have lessons to learn all the time, if we're just looking for them. If we're not going to really see that the sun does come up in the morning, then it's going to always be dark. Hey guys, how you doing? Hope you're having a good week so far.

My name is Dr. Rangan Chatterjee, and this is my podcast, Feel Better, Live More. And this is my podcast, Feel Better, Live More. Today's guest is the oldest person I've ever welcomed onto my show, and what a great pleasure it was for me to do so. Dr. Gladys McCary is 102 years old. She is co-founder of the American Holistic Medical Association and author of the brand new book, The Well-Lived Life, a 102-year-old doctor's secrets to health and happiness at every age. Now, many people consider Gladys to be the mother of holistic medicine. And for years now, she has been trying to spread the message that health is not just physical. It involves mental, emotional, and spiritual elements in equal measure. Her message is that living a long and healthy life isn't about the right diet or taking vitamins and supplements.

Instead, it requires a shift in perspective. A long life is all very well, but what are you living for? Now for many people today, finding one's purpose in life feels like an optional extra when we're so busy working, raising children or caring for parents. It can be hard to know who we really are or what we want out of life. But Gladys insists that we should still strive to identify our reason for getting out of bed, and we should realize that all of life's experience exists to teach us. Gladys is a wonderful storyteller who uses examples and anecdotes from her own purpose-driven life to explain the secrets that she shares in her

book. She reveals how the devastation of her husband asking for a divorce when she was 70 eventually became her strength. Rather than stay a victim of heartbreak, she made a choice to move forward and help others. And that's a common theme that comes up throughout this conversation. The fact that we always have a choice. This is a wonderful, life-affirming conversation about the very essence of life. It was a real privilege and honor to talk to Gladys. I hope you enjoy listening. enjoy listening. It's a huge honor for me to talk to you. I really appreciate you making some time to come on my show. And I have to say at the start that at 102 years of age, you are officially the oldest guest I have ever had on my show. That's wonderful. I'm in awe of it, actually.

I'm so amazed that I'm still alive and have this work to do. You know, to me, this is such an honor and wow. Well, it's very inspiring. It's inspiring to me that you started writing books in your 90s and that at the age of 102, you're doing a semi-world book tour from your house. I'm sure there's something about your attitude to life that is behind, or at least a contributing factor as to how you appear to be so well at the age of 102. Of course, that's not the norm in society anymore. Do you think there's anything specific that you do that helps contribute to the fact that you seem to have a very sharp mind? Well, I'm always looking for something new. I always have been. I always will be. And I'm telling you, my eyesight is very bad, so I can't read. I have

audio books, but there's nothing wrong with my insight. If my eyes are dim, that does not affect making me more able to get deeper inside my own being and reach out to other people. I mean, it's an amazing phenomena that as long as we're alive and we have something to live for and something to reach for that is helpful to ourselves and other people. I've got a mission. I've got work to do. I've always had work to do. It's not always been appreciated, but that's all right too. You work harder and you keep on. There's so much that I want to talk to you about. I've got to say that reading your new book, The Well-Lived Life, has been incredibly insightful,

but also, I would say, gratifying to me. You know, I haven't been practicing medicine for as long as you have. For me, you know, I started practicing, I think, in 2001, so just over two decades. But a lot of the things I've learned and changed my mind upon during my career so far are things that you've beautifully written about in your book, which is very comforting for me. In my mid-40s, it's very comforting to know that at 102,

you're writing about what I consider these real truths about who we are as humans, and that actually health is not just physical, it's mental, it's spiritual, it's emotional. It's wonderful to read that. I wonder if I could just read something from your introduction to you to get your thoughts on it. You write on page one, after nearly eight decades in medicine, yes, eight decades, I've treated many patients who were so bent on finding the perfect diet that they made themselves sick. Others who were so afraid of dying that they nearly gave up living and almost all of them hoping I might tell them what to put into their smoothies so they could live forever or at least an extra few years. Unfortunately, even after more

than a hundred years on this planet, I have still yet to discover a secret ingredient that has been proven to ensure a long and healthy life. But I can help you discover the secrets of true health and happiness, but they have nothing to do with vitamins or supplements. Instead, they're based on a simple shift in perspective. Gladys, I love that. It speaks to me so, so much. I'm so glad. I'm so glad. All that I've done wouldn't bound to a hill of beans if you didn't pick it up and run with it. We're all so interdependent, you know, and there's so much joy in that. You know, you get it. These concepts are becoming clearer and clearer to me as I get older. But the beauty of it is that you young ones are getting it too, you know? You're not in the dark places that I was when I started in medicine.

You know, it was World War II. I started medical school in September of 41, and the war started in December. And so my whole training had to do with killing and getting rid of. So, you know, now you come along and you can pick up this because the world has evolved since that time. It really is. I think we humans are reaching for our true humanity. And we're messed up and doing all kinds of stuff. But basically, I believe the human race is reaching for its true humanity. See, the funny thing is, Gladys, I hear you speak.

And it's very humbling. I'll tell you why. There's many reasons for that. But I have felt, since I qualified back in 2001 for Medinburg Medical School, that there was something missing in medicine, that the heart was missing in medicine, that we've become too reductionist, simply looking at symptoms to diagnose and then treat with pharmaceuticals, right? So I have felt that the heart and spirit has been missing from medicine for much of my career. But you're saying you were feeling that same thing 50, 60, 70 years ago, right? So have things changed? Have they really changed? Because you were feeling it decades ago. I'm still feeling it today.

Yes, we're not living through a world war like you were in your training, but I kind of feel that we've got so reductionist and protocol-driven in the way we treat people. So let's talk about your book is on the secrets for health and happiness at every age, right? The longevity movement is booming at the moment. There's a whole barrage of experts who've written books on longevity. Now, a lot of them are actually in their 40s or 50s. So you're someone who has gone past 100, who's writing a book on longevity.

But I feel a lot of those books, not all of them, but a lot of them are missing the big picture. They're looking at what is your blood sugar level? Let's optimize that. How much exercise are you doing? Now, of course, these things are important, but health, well-being, longevity, I believe believe and i have to believe that there's something bigger than just reducing it down to these kind of blood metrics and i agree with you 100 we have to live for something you know we're not just to get rid of, see, the basic premise, it's still there in conventional medicine, is to get rid of disease and get rid of pain. Well, I don't see it that way. I see diseases as our teachers and pain as our teachers. You know, pain, our

bodies are where our lessons come from. We have lessons to learn all the time. If we're just looking for them there's just so much to talk about but um i i was walking down the hospital hall one time and it's a beautiful hospital i'm walking down the hall and i'm thinking you know this is really beautiful architecture and then i stopped and I said, yes, but it's a temple to the goddess disease. Yeah. I'm interested as to, you know, what do you think about the current focus, stroke obsession with anti-aging and longevity? obsession with anti-aging and longevity well you know i'm not paying much attention to that because first of all i'm not interested in it and i'm interested in what i can do today i'm interested in what the moment brings to me i not, I do have a 10-year plan, but my immediate interest

is what's happening right now with you and what I can do and you and I can talk about and make a change and help somebody else do a find way that it will work for them. You see, we're trying to get a blanket that we put over everything and say, well, if this is what you do, it'll fix everything. It won't.

You have to find what works for you. My oldest son is a retired orthopedic surgeon. And when he came through Phoenix, he was going down to Del Rio, Texas to start his practice. And he said, mom, I'm real scared. He said, I have all this training and I'm going to go out into the world. I'm going to have people's lives in my hands. I don't know if I can handle that. And I said, well, Carl, if that's what you feel and that's what you think you're going to be doing, you have a right to be scared.

But if you can understand that your job is to do the job you've learned to do, which is amazing. Orthopedic surgery is awesome. Those of us who need that kind of work done, we need good orthopods doing it. But as you've done your job, you then turn the healing process over to the physician within the patient who then becomes your colleague. That's the person that you now are going to be working with. And it's a back and forth, a give and take. The patient sometime won't do what you're expecting them to and sometimes they will but the healing process is the patient's job it's the patient it's the physician within that patient

and that's that's everybody you and me and and our patients too yeah it really resonates that and our patients too. Yeah. It really resonates that. I've always felt, and I've said many times on this podcast before, that I've never really told a patient what to do. I never felt it was my job to tell them what to do. Good for you.

Who am I to tell another human being what they should do with their life? But it's through having conversations with the patients, helping them understand themselves better through that interaction, that as you say, they become the doctor, they become their own healer. And I'd like to think that's what this podcast does for people. One of the things it does is without talking down to people, without judging them and telling them what they're doing wrong, it's through stories and the exchange of ideas that perhaps the listener will pick up on one of them and see their life and go,

I wonder if that applies to me. I wonder what would happen if I change that. Would I feel better? And I honestly feel that's the approach. You very much lived through and practiced through this kind of what's called a paternalistic relationship that we often have had as doctors with our patients. And I appreciate I'm saying that to someone who is a pioneering woman and probably faced a lot of sexism trying to do what you did in medicine. But I'd like to think in terms of change, we're moving away from this didactic model where patient comes to see doctor, doctor tells patient what to do,

patient comes to see doctor, doctor tells patient what to do. And, you know, that's it. I very much hope we're moving more towards this shared partnership where we talk with each other as equals to try and see if we can come up with the right plan. Yes, and we stop complaining about non-compliant patients and people who have chronic illnesses. Well, you kind of reminded me of something that I want to talk about. Please. And that I've worked a lot with dreams, my own dreams and patients' dreams and so on. And it's been very helpful. I've paid a lot of attention to what my children have said as they were growing up. Like my three

year old came in one day and he said, mama, I know something. And I said, what's that Bobby? He says, if I make a friend and he makes a friend and he makes a friend, it's going to go all around the world and come back to me. So he's in the humanistic psychology area. Okay. I mean, that's what he's, he came in to do this and he's been working towards it. And my son who's helping me here now is a retired Presbyterian minister but when he was seven he says I wish Jesus was here and I said oh well I do too but why you and he says because I got questions and I says well ask me and he says yeah but you don't have the answers. And I says, well, let's just try it. But ask me a question. He says, okay, how can God be if you never got started?

You know? Good question. Oh, yes. You know? And I said, well, maybe it's a circle. It doesn't have a beginning and an end. He said, I knew you didn't have the answer, and off it goes off. But the point being that these children come into the world, and we all have a purpose.

We're here for a really good purpose. a really good purpose. And if we can pay attention to what they're asking us and saying, I think one of the things that helped me so much was my mother and dad understood that. And they listened. My dolls were always sick. I was always trying to fix my dolls. My sister wouldn't let me play with hers because my god you know it was that kind of thing i knew when i was two that i was a doctor i didn't think i was gonna be one i was and it's i think a lot of children come in knowing their destiny and then we don't realize what they're really saying to us. It's fascinating to hear that. You know, when you went to medical school, Gladys, was it common for women to go to medical school back then?

Very uncommon, but I went to Women's Medical College in Philadelphia, which no longer exists. But we started with 50 students. Only 25 of us graduated within that class because the concept was you're going out into a man's world and you have to be better than the others. You have to know more, do more. And so, you know, half of the class flunked out. And I was sent to the psychiatrist twice because I didn't have the proper,

they didn't think that I had the proper attitude. I mean, I was looking for this inner healing process that we're talking about, and I couldn't find it. And so I would ask questions that would upset the teachers, that would upset the deed. And, you know, then I ended up at the psychiatrist's office can i you genuinely you were referred to a psychiatrist by your medical school i mean that is staggering to hear that that actually you know paint the picture for us what year was that and what did the psychiatrist say to you? Well, the psychiatrist, you know, he did all his testing. He says, oh, go back.

You're fine. Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that, Gladys. It's fascinating that I think in the UK, and I believe in America now, there are more women at medical school than men. So the tide really is shifting massively. And if that continues, it's naive, I think, to think that the practice of medicine won't also evolve and become different. It must do because men and women fundamentally at our core, There are some big differences. And if 90% of doctors are men,

it stands to reason that certain practices will stay in place. Whereas if we move to a point where 90% of medical doctors are women, I think it's natural that that will change. So it's interesting to see how this whole space evolves. In your book, you have these six secrets, right? And they're very, very powerful. The first one is something you've alluded to already. You are here for a reason.

You already spoke about the importance of purpose and you mentioned children and how often they actually know their purpose. You can see what it is from the things that they're curious about and inquisitive about, but maybe we shut it down as parents, maybe society starts to shut it down. So we have this epidemic of people, I would say now, in midlife, who are hearing about purpose and thinking, yeah, but what is this purpose? All I can do is get to my job, pay my bills, try and feed my family. And this idea of purpose seems like an optional extra. Yet you start your book out of these six secrets. The number one secret is you

are here for a reason. So I wonder if you could explain how do you see purpose or what you call in the book juice, right? How do we find our juice? And then people who are struggling and don't feel they found theirs yet, what guidance would you give to them? Just taking a quick break to give a shout out to AG1, one of the sponsors of today's show. Now, if you're looking for something at this time of year to kickstart your health, I'd highly recommend that you consider AG1. AG1 has been in my own life for over five years now. It's a science-driven daily health drink with over 70 essential nutrients to support your overall health. It contains vitamin C and zinc, which helps support a healthy immune system, something that is really important, especially at this time of year. It also contains prebiotics

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forward slash live more. That's drinkag1.com forward slash live more. Just start looking for it. You know, until you start looking for something, you don't see it. You think that you're stuck in a job that has no purpose for you, but what purpose are you looking for? What is it that makes you want to really take a deep breath and say, oh yes, it's a new day? What is it that you really know is part of who you are? And you may not have even thought about that because you thought you had to make the money to do the things to buy the house. You thought you had to manifest these things and you've done it and you've worked at it and you're but why what who is it what is it where is it that you are looking for something that makes you sing that makes you want to dance

that makes you maybe it's in your dreams maybe it's a neighbor down the street who is really having a hard time and you haven't noticed. Maybe it's the sales girl at the dress shop who gets snippy or something with you and you don't realize that she's just about at her edge. You know, it's looking for ways in which you can actually do something that helps you, yourself, and others, because for life to be real, it has to move. If it gets stuck, then it dies. Life cannot move unless we, as our inner core, are directing it to move. And where it moves and how it moves and so on. You know, in the introduction, you write about the shift in perspective and you write about something called moving towards life, which I really like. It's the central philosophy,

I think, behind the entire book, move towards life. So if I think about that through the lens of purpose, and let's say that parent, maybe in midlife now, who feels a bit stuck, who feels that, you know what, I don't really enjoy my job, but it pays for a roof over my head and it helps me feed my family. Now, it's interesting, you say the central thing we need to get right is get our perspective right. Not that it's for me to agree or disagree. You've got much more experience than I do. But for what it's worth, I completely agree. I think we get to choose our perspective. And the way we decide to choose that perspective determines a huge amount in terms of how we

experience life, but also our health and our happiness. Now, let's take that parents for a minute. This mythical parents, this hypothetical parents. They could look at that job. And I don't want to, you know, I want to be respectful. People are struggling. A lot of people have tough lives, right? So I'm not trying to paper over the cracks here. But you could look at that negatively and go, oh, this is boring, right? I don't like this job. It's mundane. It's tedious. But yeah, I need to do it because it pays the mortgage and feeds my family. But could you also, through the lens of your approach, saying we are here for a reason, and I kind of feel that our purpose can change throughout life. It doesn't have to be this one thing that stays for the entirety of life.

Maybe in that moment, the fact that that job feeds their children and themselves and puts a roof over their heads well can that not be the purpose is that you're doing, the resentment goes away. Because then you're doing it for your family. And you know you're doing it for your family. And if you want to really juice that up some, ask your dreams. Pay attention to your dreams. When you go to bed, write down, I will remember my dreams. And then see what you can do.

See what you got in the way of dreams. And find out what it's saying to you. Dreams have been so helpful to me. And, you know, there are times when you get stuck and you can't see the way out. And it's just, you know, it's so dark and painful and you think you are, but if you can allow yourself to move with that pain to where it's teaching you what it is. Now, maybe it is, well, I'm the breadwinner for this family, and wow, you know, this is great, or I'm a seamstress and I'm a woman. But look at the things I can do and work with to help other. It's putting some purpose into what it is that you're doing.

Yeah. And everything that you do can be a part of the purpose. you do can be a part of the purpose. Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that, Gladys. As you were speaking then, I was thinking about my dad, and my dad died maybe 10 and a half years ago now. And a quick overview, just to paint the picture for you, is that my dad grew up in India. I know you grew up in India. We can maybe talk about that later. Dad grew up in India and he moved to the UK in the early 1960s to work here as a doctor. The truth is that dad worked himself into the ground. He slept three nights a week for 30 years because he did two jobs. He did his hospital consultant job, and he also did night course as a GP. So for 30 years, my dad only slept three nights a week, and he did that to send money back home, to help his parents and his siblings,

and also to give us a great education and a good life. This is a classic immigrant story that many people have, right? People move to a different country to find a better life. Now, here's the thing. to find a better life. Now, here's the thing. I know that dad's stress and chronic insomnia, well, chronic sleep deprivation, not insomnia really. It wasn't that he couldn't sleep. He was just out working instead of sleeping. I know that's why, or a major contributing factor as to why my dad got the autoimmune disease lupus in his late 50s and kidney failure and dialysis for 15 years, right? So I have no doubt in my mind that that

was a massive cause of that, right? And ultimately dad dies because of this just over 10 years ago. Now, what's really interesting is you were talking about purpose there, Gladys. ago. That was really interesting because you were talking about purpose there, Gladys. I was thinking, because I now reflect on my dad's life and think, I don't think my dad was actually happy. I think he resented much of what he felt he had to do. But I don't know that. I don't know that. And maybe, and I often think if my dad was alive, one question I'd love to ask him, I'd love to say to dad, was it worth it? You know, was it worth it? Maybe to my dad, and of course I can't speak for him, but maybe he will say, hey son, you know what? Yeah, 15 years being on a dialysis machine, losing my eyesight, being stuck in a chair.

You know, the fact that I was able to feed my family back home, look after them, give you and your brother a great education, give you a great start in life. Look at you now, what you're doing, how many people you're helping. You know what? I'll take that. Now that is honestly one question I wish I could ask dad because I don't know, it's easy to say, oh, the work killed Dad. He shouldn't have done it. But now I'm thinking, well, wait a minute. Maybe he'll take that deal.

And I think that really speaks to what you're saying in Secret One, which is you are here for a reason. Maybe that was Dad's purpose. Maybe he sacrificed his health, but maybe he lived his purpose. Maybe he sacrificed his health, but maybe he lived his purpose. Particularly coming out of the Indian culture. You know, the culture, you really understand that. And he understood that, and he came to do it, and he did it, and it was that and he came to do it and he did it

and it was painful and horrible and all of that but he did it the cultural aspects of our being are part of what we deal with also

and I I think it's probably important to integrate that into how it is that we're not just directing our lives, but how it is that we understand how that influences our lives. You know, that's those, these cultural processes, these have been building for eons

and they have all kinds of thoughts and music and art and all of that that's all piled into that, that's part of our deep, deep understanding of who we are. And see, I have this idea that when God created us, God says, okay, you human beings are the only things that have will, and you can think for yourselves, and, you know, this is, and choice, will and choice. Nothing else on the earth can do that. But you can.

So I give you dominion over the earth, and we human beings, in our arrogance, thought he said dominance, and that's not what he said, we dominate everything on the earth and in the meantime damage ourselves because our body is our earth, our personal earth is here and if we think that we can go around just doing funky hunky dory things to the earth and not suffer ourselves, it's like cutting your fingernails too short

and think that that's not going to hurt. I mean, it's the things that we do, which have been part of our cultural process for eons. Yeah. And I truly think that what we're doing now, when I say reaching for the light, I think we're reaching for our true humanity like E.T. when he was reaching to go home.

I think there's that inner longing to become our true humanity. And I think it's within each one of us. We just have to see sometime when we're stuck and we can say to ourselves, well, what is it that I really am reaching for? What is it that I really, what makes me sing? It's that kind of a question that we ask ourselves, not what the teacher told me to do or what the doctor told me to do. Gladys, do you see yourself as old? Well, I know I'm 102, okay, and a half, all right.

Well, parts of me are old, but there are parts that are getting, I have new selves every day that are, you know, part of my process, and I'm still here. you know part of my process and I'm still here but it's like when you're growing up you know you be a you know see somebody and a month later they say man how you've grown because you don't see growth you know we you can you can measure it inch by inch and stuff, but most of the time we don't see growth. We don't see life. We don't see where we're doing things better or worse or whatever. We don't look at life that way. But if we start looking at life as what it is right now, Start looking at life as what it is right now.

It's awesome. And I could not have imagined when I was anything, well, 90, that I would still be here talking, you know? I had a sister-in-law that was 100 when she died, but otherwise my other ancestors were in their 90s mostly. But it wasn't something that I was reaching for. Yeah. Are you afraid of death? No. I think it's kind of like going into a dream. You go through that other door and your consciousness goes on.

And it's different. and it's different you mentioned earlier on in this conversation that you have a 10-year plan and what's interesting to me when i hear that is the common narrative in society around aging is pretty negative. You're going to lose your memory. You're going to lose your focus. You're going to lose your physical abilities. You know, people generally, as they get older, to my knowledge, I don't hear many people talking about 10-year plans. So it's very inspiring to hear you at the age of 102 talk about your 10-year plan. I'll definitely ask you to share it a bit later on. But what's interesting to me, the plan is interesting for

sure. I'd love to hear about it. But what's more interesting to me is the fact that you have a plan, that you are still curious, you're still looking forward, there are still things you want to do. I guess, speaking to secret one, you still have your purpose. Yeah. Well, I do. And it's a matter of being aware that I'm alive right now, doing what I need to do right now because there's more to be done. It's that kind of a thought. Not whether it's six years or five years or, you know, you put a number on it to give yourself a direction. But the reality is that I need to do this that I'm doing right now so that I can do the next thing that I'm going to do later on today. And the next thing, it's a re, life has to move.

As soon as it gets stuck, it's reaching towards death. So it's that constant movement of moving forward. The 10-year can move forward. You may not make it, but it's a moving target. And it's real. it's real. So. Yeah, I love that. As you were speaking there, I was also thinking, in some ways, it doesn't, again, this is just my perspective, but to me, it seems that in some ways, it doesn't actually matter whether the 10-year plan gets realized or not, whether it's your 10 year plan or my 10 year plan. The point is, you have a plan that's keeping you going, right? Whether you get there or not, it kind of doesn't matter. And then I was thinking of, well, how does retirement fit in here? My understanding is that you still work. Of course, you just released this book. So at the very least, you are a working author writing your book and now promoting it. But what do you think of retirement? Is retirement something you ever did?

And do you see it as I do that often when people retire, they can start to go downhill very, very quickly? downhill very, very quickly. I always said I wasn't going to retire from medicine until I had something to retire to. So it was when I had the opportunity to go to Afghanistan and work with their birthing process that my brother had been working with a long story. Anyway, brother who had been working with a long story anyway um i had to have something else to retire too and uh and that's so you know uh it's not it's not a fixed something you know i if I'm going to reach for something, I'm going to reach for it. And maybe I'll make it.

The try is accorded to him or her for righteousness. If we're trying to do something, we're righteous people. We're doing the right thing. So if we're, whether we make it or not, is whatever happens, you know? I have so many things that I have tried to do. My kids have called them, they're my almosts. I almost made it here on this. We almost got that huge thing that we would almost, I've had so many almosts, but they are things that have led me along the path to be where I am. And how in the world could I have imagined doing this? I mean, it's beyond possibility. And yet, here we are. Here we are, thousands of miles away, never met in person, having a really meaningful

and wonderful conversation about the essence of life and health. I mean, if I think to the fact that you're 102, and the fact that the internet probably didn't exist until what, you're in your 80s? I don't know when it caught up. I had nothing in the way of... When I, 1920, my parents had let my family in Cincinnati know. And it was a cablegram that went across the ocean and it said girl well that was it because every letter cost them so you know uh it was to be able to do this is just, it's mind blowing.

Yeah. It really is. We, in the school I grew up with in the Himalayas, we had no, maybe they had a telephone, but I don't know who they would have called, you know. But nobody had phone calls. In fact, there's a lovely story. My oldest brother had met a nurse who was in nurse's training, I mean, language school, but they were, he was in our house, which was 7,500 feet up on the land hour. And the school was a thousand feet down and a mile.

And there was no way of them communicating. There was no way to get to know how, you know. And they're beginning to do this nice relationship. But what my brother did was we had hunting dogs. My dad had trained hunting dogs. It was in the jungle. He needed them and all. dogs. My dad had trained hunting dogs in the jungle. He needed them and all.

And Laddie was just a wonderful dog. So John would write a note and put it in Laddie's collar and say, Laddie, go to Adda. And Laddie would run down the hill and to the nurses, and the nurses would get, Adda, your mailman's here and she would go and get her note and answer it and say laddie take to john and he'd run up the hill i mean to have that for the process that was going on you know to go from that to what we're doing today how you know it just takes my breath away yeah i wanted to ask you about this idea of living in the moment right you you write about this in the book moment, right? You write about this in the book, this idea of being present, being able to really experience life right here, right now. As you said, the only thing that matters at this moment in time for me, and as you said, from you, is our interaction. It's can we be present in life right now? Because that's health,

that's happiness, that's everything, right? Being present. Yet many of us struggle with presence. And of course, many of us believe that technology now is making it easier than ever before to be distracted. Of course, you've lived much of your life without this modern technology, so I'd love to know your perspective on that. But I'd also love to understand from you, are there any practices you would recommend to people who struggle to be present, who are constantly thinking about something else other than where they currently are, what have you found to be helpful

with patients who struggle with this in the past? If you're stuck, accepting the fact that you're stuck and look for something else. In other words, if life seems so dark or painful, it's like the time, and I'll use stories again, because for me, when my husband asked for a divorce after 46 years

I was devastated I was absolutely I couldn't imagine this so I'm really really in a dark hole

I'd go out into the desert and just howl like the coyotes. I mean, it was just terrible. I was still working, but seeing patients. So this one day I'm driving home and I'm crying. I'm really crying. And I'm saying, God, you just don't understand. You don't understand how hard it is and all of this. And all of a sudden, I pulled over to the side of the road and I stopped. And the quote came to me, this is a day the Lord has made.

Let us rejoice and be glad in it. And I took a deep breath and I said, okay, okay, okay. And I put my license plate, be glad. So from that day on, every time I got into my car and drove around the city of Phoenix, I was saying, be glad.

In other words, there were, when you're in a situation where you really, really think life has ended, it hasn't. think life has ended. It hasn't. You have to stop and give it time to for the message to come to you. Because it's there. And that really turned things around for me so that I was

able to go on. Because actually, I had to give up everything. The whole holistic movement was, you know, it shattered so much that it was just devastating. But we reclaimed it. And we went back and my daughter and I started our practice, the Scottsdale Holistic Medical Group. And she's still a concierge physician and doing functional medicine. And, you know, it's something that I think people, we as human beings go through these really difficult times. I've had patients say to me, oh, well, after telling their story, they say, oh, well, you would never understand because you've always had it so easy.

And my aunt says, oh, honey, if you only knew. So it's a matter of understanding that we're all in it together. You know, we all have hard times. And there is always always always light coming there's we can if we reach for it if we're not going to reach for it if we're not going to re really see that the sun does come up in the morning then it's going to always be dark yeah thank you my favorite one of your six secrets is number five everything is your teacher i'm biased towards that one because i would say over the last five ten years

that's kind of been a big shift within myself, how I look at everything in life now as a learning opportunity, good or bad. So I really, I love it because it makes us less of a victim to life and puts us in the driver's seat of life, right? When we see things as our teacher, there's a learning opportunity in every single situation so i want to talk about that secret what you mean by exactly but to start off you just shared a very powerful story of your husband at 46 years asking you for a divorce which was devastating to you at the time so through the lens of everything in life is your teacher, what did that moment teach you?

Before we get back to this week's episode, I just wanted to let you know that I am doing my very first national UK theatre tour. I am planning a really special evening where I share how you can break free from the habits that are holding you back and make meaningful changes in your life that truly last. It is called the Thrive Tour. Be the architect of your health and happiness. So many people tell me that health feels really complicated, but it really doesn't need to be. In my live event, I'm going to simplify health and together we're going to learn the skill of happiness, the secrets to optimal health, how to break free from the habits that are holding you

back in your life, and I'm going to teach you how to make changes that actually last. Sound good? All you have to do is go to drchatterjee.com forward slash tour. I can't wait to see you there. This episode is also brought to you by the Three Question Journal, the journal that I designed and created in partnership with Intelligent Change. Now, journaling is something that I've been recommending to my patients for years. It can help improve sleep, lead to better decision making, and reduce symptoms of anxiety and depression. It's also been shown to decrease emotional stress, make it easier to turn new behaviours into long-term habits,

and improve our relationships. There are of course many different ways to journal, and as with most things, it's important that you find the method that works best for you. One method that you may want to consider is the one that I outline in the three question journal. In it, you will find a really simple and structured way of answering the three most impactful questions I believe that we can all ask ourselves every morning and every evening. Answering these questions will take you less than five minutes, but the practice of answering them regularly will be transformative.

Since the journal was published in January, I have received hundreds of messages from people telling me how much it has helped them and how much more in control of their lives they now feel. Now, if you already have a journal or you don't actually want to buy a journal, that is completely fine. I go through in detail all of the questions within the three-question journal completely free on episode 413 of this podcast. But if you are keen to check it out, all you have to do is go to drchatterjee.com forward slash journal or click on the link in your podcast app. Yep. You know, yesterday was the 4th of July. It was Independence Day here in Phoenix, in the United States.

And 30 years ago, on Independence Day, I moved into this house. And it was after the divorce, after, you know, we had started our own practice and so on. But I think it's kind of interesting that today is a day after Independence Day for me for 30 years. The reality of it was that when I started school, up until that time, life was idyllic. I thought everything was fine. But when I started school, I couldn't read and I couldn't write. All numbers would move on the page. All the numbers would move on the page.

And so I had to repeat first grade twice. And the teacher called me a dummy. And I thought I was stupid. And I fought the kids that called me the dumbest one in the class and all that stuff for two years. Not at home. At home, it was a completely different. My parents and my siblings, we had, I could climb up the hill and life was different. But when I went to school, I was a dummy. I was a dummy.

That picture of being the stupid one carried through all the way through my life in that I didn't realize that I had a voice because I thought I always have to have it rechecked. I have to have, if I've written something, I have to have somebody read it and make sure that it's all right. And it wasn't until I was 93 that I found my voice. Now, the reason I'm telling you this is because sometimes we have childhood pain or even cultural pain or something that is so deep within us that we don't recognize it for what it is. Bill Maas asking me for the divorce gave me my independence. He literally booted me out and I needed to, I had to find out how I could go on and how I would be able to continue to do the work. And so it called to the deepest part of myself.

And it wasn't until I was 93 that I really realized my voice was important. That I had been using my, I'd written these books and I'd done all these things, but I was always downplaying them by saying, yeah, this is, but somebody else, you know, it was, and I realized that in downplaying them, I was in essence denying my own voice to myself. to myself. But when I was 93, I had a dream. And in the dream, I saw myself as nine-year-old Gladys in the jungles of North India. And we were in tents and I was looking out of the tent to make sure my younger brother wasn't there because he was going to tattle on me because I was going to do something I wasn't supposed to do. And I knew it. And the thing that we're not supposed to do in our family was we were allowed to sing hymns and pigeons on a Sunday morning, but not the other stuff that I wanted to sing.

And I, as a wise seven-year-old who thought she'd do something, thought that was stupid, and I didn't want to do it, and I wasn't going to do it. So Gordon couldn't report me to the... He wasn't there. I climbed as fast as I could to the top of the mango tree.

And I'm sitting up there and I'm singing. I'm singing Caterpillar Song and anything else that I wanted to sing. And it was going on and on. And every so often I look over my shoulder and I see Jesus up in the tree. And Jesus is cracking up. I mean, he's laughing really, really hard. And I say to Jesus, Jesus loves the little children, right? And he says, yes, and I go back to my singing.

But then I begin to doubt, you know, did he really say that? So I look back at him and I say, I'm still a little children, right? And he says, yes. And I go back to singing and laughing. And that's when I woke up and realized that I had been denying my voice all this time when even Jesus accepted the fact that it was okay so from that point on I really stopped this foolishness of saying well somebody else uh or this you know I will I got that from here or there so the whole concept of independence came from that tragic thing that i thought had ended by all that i had done yeah gladys i really appreciate you sharing that i think it's

it's such a powerful story it's very inspiring as actually, the fact that it was only when you were 93, when you feel now that you found your voice. Because I think many of us feel that we've still not found our voice. We're scared about what other people will think of us. We're scared of actually following our true path because it's kind of not what our parents want or society wants. And me hearing you say, after all the incredible things you've achieved in your career and done, me hearing you say that you only really got your voice at the age of 93, I think it gives me, and I hope everyone listening, a lot of hope. gives me and i hope everyone listening a lot of hope yeah yeah because why not you know because 93 is still a good age you know and and uh absolutely you know you've got self-doubt

and and that doesn't mean that self-doubt doesn't creep in here here now occasionally but i know that it's you know that i can still understand the thing that i'm really really saying yeah know, one of your other secrets that I really liked was secret four, which is you are never truly alone. And there's quite a few chapters in that section. And there's some real wisdom there. One of the chapters I quite liked was the one about finding your friends. And in that you were talking about you aim to love everyone, right? You aim to love everyone. And you had this phrase, I want to find the friends within them. Can you explain what you mean by that? well you know you can either look to the people who are around you who are in your environment as friends or foes

and there are people who don't think like you do or you know are doing things that are painful and so on. It's a matter of what you want to focus on. I know there are people out there who are hurting other people and doing bad things to other people. But they are there because they have their lessons to learn. That's their issue. And I don't have to carry their issue. I mean, there are people who are doing bad things, but I don't have

to understand what it is that they're trying to understand. I just have to understand that they're confused and stuck and doing these things and bless them and go on. I mean, it's a matter of accepting the fact that there are evil things that go on in this world. But I don't need to dig in that patch. I don't need to dig in that mud hole. It's not something I choose to do. I'd much rather walk in the garden than to

dig in the garbage stuff outside. And I think it really is a matter of choice as to how there are people who do things that I really don't like. But is my talking about that making it better or worse?

Or my dealing with it? What's my engagement with that doing to what they're doing? If I continue to, every time I talk to somebody, talk about how awful somebody is or, you know, I mean, whatever, that just continues it. But if I can just look at it and say, well, that's their burden to carry and they'll learn what they can learn. But I just have to learn that they still are a human being who has the option of reaching their true humanity. And I'm just going to keep looking for that within that person. I really love that. It's choosing where you place your attention. This is one of the strengths of

a gratitude practice. It's like, yeah, we can find plenty of negatives each day and the brain's wired to look for those. So an intentional practice of gratitude is simply starting to direct your attention little by little each day to the good that does exist, the positives that do exist. And it's, you know, as you were explaining that perspective, your words were really interesting to me. You didn't say there are bad people in the world. You said there are people who are doing bad things, right? And there's a massive difference, right? There's a huge difference. You're not calling that person bad, wrapping up the entirety of them within this kind of three-letter word. You're going, no, that's one aspect of them that I can see, but there's other aspects of them. You know, when I learned this, well, there's many, many experiences in life that have taught me this lesson. But I remember a few years ago, I was at a conference, I think it was a medical conference, and someone who I had seen online, who I didn't really like the way they came across online. I thought they were quite combative, talking down about other people constantly, you know, encouraging pylons to people online this is.

And I met them at a conference. I can't remember where I saw them and I had an interaction with them and I thought, wow, they're really nice. Actually, you know what? I bet they're a really good dad. And the point was, it just made me think there are so many facets to all of us right we have these we all do things maybe that other people may not like myself included right yeah and we can focus on that if we want or go that actually we are this rich tapestry of different behaviors and emotions we can all find faults in other people. We can all find good things. And I think every single person, in fact, I'd encourage people listening to think about someone you really don't like and you think are problematic.

And just ask yourself, can you think of one quality that they have or maybe two or three qualities? And, you know, most of the time you can find those qualities, they do exist. So my question to you then, Gladys, is why should someone do that, right? Why shouldn't they say, oh, they're bad, I don't want to interact with them, right? What is the benefit to the individual to start looking at the positives in everyone or as you write about, to aim to love everyone? My mother taught me that. She had a saying, you know, if I'd come in and I was complaining about my brother who was doing something, she'd say, there's so much bad in the best of us and so much good in the rest of us that it hardly behooves any of us to talk about the rest of us. And I would stand

there and mouth it, you know, because I'd heard it so many times. Yeah. See, I think this stuff is key for health and happiness and longevity. I think this is the missing piece that doesn't get spoken about. Because if you hold on to this negative outlook in life, if you hold on to resentment, if you like to judge other people, you know what? You're not going to be healthy.

You're not going to be happy. And I'm pretty sure you ain't going to live a long life. I just, I just, I don't believe it. And there's so much research on the negatives of resentment and an inability to forgive and what that does to blood pressure or risk of autoimmune disease, all kinds of things. There are strong links between the mind and our physical health.

And I know you know this, you were probably lecturing all around the world about this long before I was even born, but it's certainly a truth that I've discovered in two decades of practice. Right. And it sours your stomach. I mean, you know, if you are thinking bad thoughts and sour thoughts and mean thoughts about somebody, it's hard to digest.

Yeah. It reminds me a little bit of the section about regret. and you know first of all i i guess let me ask you at 102 what do you regret in life um i i really believe that everything that happened to me was there for a reason. And I really, the whole business of having that divorce. And the way I feel about that, I don't regret one minute, the time that I spent with Bill McGarry. But then I figure he took a vacation.

So I don't have, I just, it took me a long time to get to that. But I finally realized that if I hung on to the pain that I was still having from what was our relationship, it didn't serve me. It just made me feel bad. But if I could look at what we had together we climbed the pyramid together all kinds of things we had these six amazing kids together and all of a sudden I have

an amazing memory lane that I could go down and I figure well Bill you took a vacation but I'm on this memory lane that I could go down. And I figure, well, Bill, you took a vacation, but I'm on this memory lane place where I'm going to learn what I had to learn from it and go on with it. You know, throughout this conversation, Gladys, I think you've used the word choose a lot. And I think it's really telling because going back to that central philosophy in your book and your approach,

it's about that shift in perspective. We can choose our perspective. We can hopefully listen to the words of wisdom you share in your book and in this conversation and go, wow, yeah, you know, I don't have to take this negative approach to life or to other people. I can if I want to. It may be hard at first, but I can practice and get better at it. I can cultivate that skill of choosing to look at the positives. So I think that word choice is really, really important. Is that something you've had to talk to your patients about over the years? Oh, all the time. All the time. Yeah. Because I have one friend and patient who I took care of for 50 years and she just died last month.

But she lived with one quarter of one kidney. I have no idea how she did that. one kidney. I have no idea how she did that. None of my colleagues, you know, she would have problems. None of us could understand how she was able to live with one quarter of one kidney. kidney. And she was, when she went to see a physician for whatever, you know, a specialist, and if she didn't, if she was labeled non-compliant, it was because she knew what she could do to keep herself healthy and what she couldn't do. And there were some things that she couldn't do and she wouldn't do them. So those of us who took care of her through those 50 years got to appreciate the physician within her

as a huge colleague of ours. What had happened was when she was 18 months old, she climbed a ladder and they lived out here in Phoenix. And they were doing some repairing on the roof. And she slipped on the ladder and fell into a tar bucket and injured the one kidney so badly that it had to be removed.

And the other one was okay for a few months, but then she developed pyelonephritis and part of that had to be removed. And here she lived to be 76. You know, these people, I have had, I call them people who are living the life of living medicine. They are living with medicine that we need to learn from. And they can teach us because they are living it. And we as physicians need to understand that the physician within them

has the real essence of what it is that they can do to do the healing. Well, Gladys, look, it's been a real pleasure talking to you. We haven't even touched on a fraction of the golden wisdom that exists inside your book. Just to finish off this conversation, Gladys, we're living in a time now where many people are really struggling. They're struggling with their mental well-being. They're worried about the future of the planet. They're worried about what they watch on the news. They're struggling with their physical health. So you have over eight decades worth of clinical experience, right? Putting it all together, maybe covering some of the things we've already spoken about, but for that person right now who feels stuck in their life and can't see a way out,

what advice would you give them? Start loving your life. Start loving yourself. Start understanding the very essence of love is what is healing. It heals everything. A mother kissing her child's boo-boo starts the healing process. But the whole aspect of healing, true healing, true healing of our beings is love. And God is love. You know, it's that very essence that love itself is the true healer. So if we can focus on what it is in our lives that we love and what it is that we want to continue to share with other people because we want other people to love too. because we want other people to love too. Yeah. Thank you, Gladys. I appreciate you sharing that. You're welcome.

And I just realized that we heard about your 10-year plan, but we never heard what it was. So I wonder, just in the remaining few minutes we have left, can you give us an overview? What's the 10-year plan? What do you hope to be doing at the age of 112? Create a village for living medicine. What we talk about in this book is the essence of what the people who are living there want to be living for. And it can happen any place in the world. for. And it can happen any place in the world. You know, it's a matter of where you choose to live and grow and have your essence manifest. Thank you, Gladys. I wish you all the best with that 10-year plan, with your mission. You've been inspiring people for decades now.

I think the book is something very special. There's a lot of wisdom in that book. I can't think of a single person who it won't help. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Really hope you enjoyed that conversation. Do think about one thing that you can take away and apply into your own life and also have a think about one thing from this conversation that you can teach to somebody else remember when you teach someone it not only helps them it also helps you learn and retain the information. Now before you go, just wanted to let you know about Friday Five. It's my free weekly email containing five simple ideas to improve your

health and happiness. In that email, I share exclusive insights that I do not share anywhere else, including health advice, how to manage your time better, interesting articles or videos that I'd be consuming, and quotes that have caused me to stop and reflect. And I have to say, in a world of endless emails, it really is delightful that many of you tell me it is one of the only weekly emails that you actively look forward to receiving. So if that sounds like something you would like to receive each and every Friday, you can sign up for free at drchatterjee.com forward slash Friday Five. Now, if you are new to my podcast, you may be interested to know that I have written five books that have been bestsellers all over the world, covering all kinds of different topics, happiness, food, stress,

sleep, behavior change and movement, weight loss, and so much more. So please do take a moment to check them out. They are all available as paperbacks, eBooks, and as audio books, which I am narrating. If you enjoyed today's episode, it is always appreciated if you can take a moment to share the podcast with your friends and family or leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Thank you so much for listening. Have a wonderful week. And always remember, you are the architect of your own health. Making lifestyle changes always worth it. Because when you feel better, you live more.