Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - BITESIZE | How to Feel Calm, Present and Happy (Even When Things Don’t Go Your Way) | Haemin Sunim #649

Episode Date: April 16, 2026

Today’s guest believes that even when things don’t go our way, there’s always an opportunity for growth and unexpected joy. Feel Better, Live More Bitesize is my weekly podcast for your mind, body, and heart. Each week I’ll be featuring inspirational stories and practical tips from some of my former guests. Today's clip is from episode 476 of the podcast with Buddhist monk and author Haemin Sunim. Haemin is a Zen Buddhist teacher and the author of two Sunday Times bestselling books, including his very latest, the beautiful: ‘When Things Don’t Go Your Way: Zen Wisdom for Difficult Times.’ In this clip, we discuss the crucially important notion that we always have a choice in how we interpret and respond to life’s challenges even when things don’t go our way. Thanks to our sponsor https://heights.com/livemore Show notes and the full podcast are available at https://drchatterjee.com/476 Support the podcast and enjoy Ad-Free episodes. Try FREE for 7 days on Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/feelbetterlivemore. For other podcast platforms go to https://fblm.supercast.com. DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

Today's bite-size episode is sponsored by Heights. As I get older, I realize that staying healthy isn't just about living longer. It's about having the energy to really live those years as myself, to be present for my kids, my work, and for the people who matter most. Recently, I started taking Thrive, a new daily longevity supplement from Heights, a British company who focused on using science to make products that work. Thrive is designed to support healthy aging at a cellular level, helping you feel clearer, more energized, and more resilient as the years go by.

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Today's clip is from episode 476 of the podcast with Buddhist monk Haman Sunim. Haman is a Zen Buddhist teacher and the author of two Sunday Times bestselling books, including The Beautiful When Things Don't Go Your Way, Zen wisdom for Difficult Times. In this clip, we discuss the crucially important notion that we always have a choice in how we interpret and respond to life's challenges, even when things don't go our way. I guess most people think it is a good thing when things do go their way. But one of the central cases you make in this book, and it's a provocative title, I really like it, is that we don't always want things to go our way, because when they don't go our way, there's real opportunity, isn't there? Yes. And we don't know whether we'll be

happy, you know, if everything goes away like the way we wanted. Like, for example, you know, somebody who just fall in love and imagine that if I get to marry that person, then I'll be happy forever. And then actually this person get to marry and only after two, three years later, they are getting divorced. So you don't know, just because things are going like the way you wanted, this is going to bring happiness to you. We simply do not know. In Zen tradition, and this mind is called don't know mind, we have to just bring this don't know mind to all situations and having this open, open mindset. So rather than imagining I already know what will happen, we should bring instead, you know, don't know mind. I don't know whether it's going to

bring me, you know, more opportunity or happiness, or we don't know whether it's going to bring disappointments, you know, whatever that is, if we can just bring this mind of, you know, openness and appreciations, then we'll feel at the end our life is actually full. You know, we are having very, you know, enriching experience. I think that's a great example. If we meet the love of our life and we propose to them and they say, Yes, we feel, yeah, that's what I wanted. That's going to be amazing. And a lot of the time it is.

But if you look at current divorce rates, you'd have to say a lot of the time it isn't. So if someone's listening to you now and things are not going the way that they want, what would you say to them? Don't jump into quick conclusion that just because things are not going like the way you wanted. It is bad.

Have open mind, you know. You never know what kind of opportunities, different experience you might enjoy or you feel later super grateful. A friend of mine, you know, he wrote a book. And while he was writing, you know, he was asking me, do you think this book will become a bestseller, you know? Interestingly, his book didn't do well in terms of sales of the book. However, one of the readers of that book now became his wife. The reader actually sent a quick message to him how much she appreciated his book. And they decided to have a coffee together.

and one thing led to another, they met and they started dating, and now they are married, and now they have a beautiful daughter. So you don't know how the life is going to be turned out, you know? You might imagine that, you know, you know what kind of happiness you want to have, but in the end, you know, the universe may award you with different type of, you know, happiness. and still valid and still wonderful. So if we take that don't know mind approach, how does that actually work in real life?

Yeah, just help us understand how you can apply that type of mindset to an exciting event. Well, when you are planning for your own wedding, I'm sure you have some idea, you know, how it should go, you know. However, if you can just apply, don't know mine, you know, even if some things are not going like the way imagine, maybe the cake wasn't exactly the way he wanted or the, you know, the way people interact, you know, or the speech that other, you know, your relatives or your best friends were making, you know, didn't quite, you know,

gel well. But you still remain this, you know, idea of don't know mind. And in this mind of not knowing, you can relax, you know, rather than tightly trying to control everything and then everything have to go like the way I wanted. And, you know, screaming like a little kid if it doesn't, that's not going to make you happy. You know, I think there is openness and new possibility when I have, you know, don't know mine. And we can also relax.

Yeah. That wedding example is actually so good because I know many people who have got mega stressed about their weddings, and I understand it. I kind of, I'm not judging it, I'm just observing it. And sometimes we'll literally get stressed over the tablecloth isn't the right color, right? The napkins are not exactly how I had imagined them. And then if we go back to what we were talking about before,

which is about who are we? You know, it's that space where thought ends. It's about the non-identification with things, right? Not being so attached to things. You kind of really see it in that moment, don't you? whereby people grow up with an idea that my wedding day has to be this way. I don't know if it's the same in career or not. But here in the UK, I think many people grow up with the idea that this is how my wedding's going to be.

This is what it's going to look like. this is the dress, this is how we're going to arrive. And hey, listen, we've all got desires and things that we would like to happen in certain ways. I guess you're saying the problem is if you are dependent on that, if your happiness is conditional on those things happening, you put yourself in a very, very weak position, don't you? Yes. Rather than trying to control everything, can you relax?

actually enjoy. You know, things may go not exactly you had planned, but it doesn't mean that that experience is not going to be unhappy. You know, it can be just as wonderful, you know, unexpected, but still very wonderful. When we love something, you know, or someone, you know, we do bring this don't know mind. That is, we don't know if this person likes this type of food or that kind of color, you know, what kind of music this person likes. When you are first dating, then there is a moment of wanting to know more, you know,

because you are bringing this, I don't know yet, you know. There is a genuine sense of curiosity. But after, you know, being together for a couple of years or, you know, 10 years, if you stop having, don't know mine. That is, I know everything there is to know about. this person. You know, I know everything there is to know about my own child, you know. Then what do you do is instead of listening, you would just end up, you know, prescribing, you are supposed to do this, you are supposed to do that, you know. You are just keep on nagging them,

as opposed to really trying to understand what's happening to them. So I think, you know, another word for love is don't know mine. that may well be the number one problem with most relationships that we stop being curious we change our mindset from when we were dating when as you say we were looking to discover

to learn to find out but over time I don't know if you'd call it laziness but this kind of inertia can almost slip in where we make assumptions about our partner, we think that they're doing things because that's the way they've always done things

and we expect them to behave in a certain way. I have this little exercise that I often do with my wife called starting with zero. Oh, wow. What is that? And the idea is basically, well, the big idea is that our past often haunts our present-day relationships.

Absolutely. And so I think I came up at maybe a year ago. Just this idea, what would happen if I interacted with Vidnav, it's my wife, as if this was the first time I'd ever met her? Even though, you know, I'd been married for over 15 years, right? What happens if I interact with her in the morning? She comes down to the kitchen, and I've been up for a bit, as if it was the first time.

And I tell you, you know, I should honestly do it more because when I do it, the knock-on effects is just profound. You're not making assumptions or judgments. You're literally taking someone for who they are in that moment, and you start to learn new things that you don't learn when you think you know it all already. That is so true. Yeah. I hope people can apply that exercise, you know, to their relationships. whenever we think we know about something, it's all in the past.

You know, we are not actually knowing anything in the present moment. You know, anything that you know is something that already happened. The present moment, you cannot think about present moment. Right? If you think about something, it is something that already happened, you know. Of course. So this is the, you know, opening into this, you know, wonder, you know, this if you want to have a wonder in your life, rather than assuming that you already know, you know, bring this mindset of I don't know yet, you know, let me just appreciate what's in front of me right now. I love that.

That totally landed for me. Once you start thinking about it, it's already happened. Yes. You're not in the present moment anymore. That's so powerful. You cannot think about the present moment. It's simply impossible. Yeah.

Okay, in terms of practical guidance for people, are you open to sharing some of your daily routine? Because I guess a lot of us would love to know and understand what it is that a monk does every day to see if we can learn something from that. There isn't any particular form that I follow. Rather, as I am carrying out my daily life, I try to see the emptiness, impermanence of the things.

So, you know, whatever I experience, I can clearly see the impermanence of that experience. And when I see that, then I generally can lack go very quickly. Can you share a practical example of that? Because I think what you've just said has got so many profound implications. But I'd love you to sort of maybe help people understand a regular day-to-day scenario that they may come across, that they may get attached to, but you're saying actually that your skill or something you've cultivated is the ability to know that this is impermanence.

Right. Any examples come to mind? Maybe, you know, when you are feeling annoyed, for example, in the morning on your way to your work and you run into, you know, somebody who was very annoying, maybe in your subway or, you know, while you're driving, you know. And then after arriving at your work and, you know, start maybe turning on your computer and whatnot. and realize that it is not there anymore, the annoyance, not there anymore.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Yes. It's simple as that. You know, only if you, you know, rethink about it and try to bring those memory again and again and thereby holding on to that, you know, event of annoyance, then it feels as though you are entrapped in that, you know, experience of, you know, very negative, you know, experience. However, if you can see that, the whatever that really was bothering you, it's not here in front of your eyes. Isn't that magical? You know, whatever that really bothered you, you know, like 10 minutes ago, it's not here anymore.

It's impermanent. And your true nature is that which recognize everything as it is, not the contents of very experience. That example reminds me of one of the final sections in your new book called Discovering the True Self. I was reading that last night. and I think this speaks to impermanence. You're writing about that tranquil silence, the formless silence, and how thoughts and feelings have form. But ultimately, I think you said something like, when the thought finishes, that's where the silence is. And I remember last night I was just meditating and the thought came and I waited for it to

end. And then there was just calm until the next thought came. And the more I tuned into those little moments of calm, the greater they became until at some point, maybe five minutes in, there was just this really prolonged periods. I can't think of any of the word, peace. Yeah, I was going to say bliss, but yeah, peace. It was just, it was beautiful. So thank Thank you for that. Oh, thank you. You know, people often think that if there isn't anything to think about, we'll get bored. And thereby we are jumping from one, you know, idea or one content, one thought to another

thoughts, to another event, you know. They don't want to just relax. They just want to constantly engage with something. But the truth is, our true nature is peace. That is, if we can just relax and enjoy the moment when there is no more thought, and yet you are aware that there is no more thought. In this empty and transparent awareness, that's your true nature. Do you think being happy is our true nature?

Yes. people often think happiness means excitement you know when we are excited then we feel happy but if we want everlasting happiness then excitement you cannot you know sustain it for a long time it fades it disappears you know so what we really want is some quality of peace you know in happiness experience, happy experience. So our true nature, I believe, is in a state of peace. And when we are not trying to go somewhere or arrive at other places and yet you are relaxed here and now and you are content with what you already have or you feel grateful

for what you already have, then that's where the happiness arrives, you know, lives. talks me about small but certain happiness, wonderful chats from your book, and I think it's a very simple concept that I think everyone's going to resonate with. Thank you. This is not my idea. This is an idea that many people propose, but I think it is so important. I think oftentimes people imagine that they will finally feel happy. and I will be able to relax only when I achieve some monumental goals in my life.

But while you are getting there, you also have to live your life. And it usually takes a long time to arrive at your goal. So I think it's important we look for what I would call small but certain happiness. It's just so simple. You say this. for some, the fragrant smell of freshly made morning coffee is a time of peace and happiness. While for others, it could be the warmth of the sun on their face,

the sight of spring flowers, the feel of a cozy blanket on a chilly day, or simply spending time with their dog or cats after work. So I think we have to make a decision. You know, we have to decide to appreciate our life. We have to decide to enjoy. this moment. You know, once you decided that I'm going to enjoy this moment,

then it makes it much easier to appreciate things. Without that intention, it's hard, you know, the life just passed us by and without really, you know, becoming aware of what we are having it. So it takes only 10 seconds. Okay. That is, wait, I'm just going to actually enjoy the smell of freshly made coffee, you know, just intentions. And then you pause a little bit and then you re-engage

with the experience. And from that moment, you say, wow, this is happiness. You know, rather than searching for some, you know, big things in your life, big success to be happy, maybe this is what I was after, you know. I love that. Hope you enjoyed that bite-sized clip. Do spread the love by sharing this episode with your friends and family. And if you want more, why not go back and listen to the original full conversation with my guest? If you enjoyed this episode, I think you will really enjoy my bite-sized Friday email. It's called the Friday 5. And each week, I share things that I do not share on social media.

It contains five short doses of positivity. Articles of books that I'm reading, quotes that I'm thinking about, That's exciting research I've come across and so much more. I really think you're going to love it. The goal is for it to be a small yet powerful dose of feel good to get you ready for the weekend. You can sign up for it free of charge at doctorchatterjy.com forward slash Friday 5. I hope you have a wonderful weekend. Make sure you have pressed subscribe and I'll be back next week with my long form conversation on Wednesday

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