Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - BITESIZE | How to Stop Feeling Overwhelmed | Oliver Burkeman #463

Episode Date: June 20, 2024

In a world of demands, distractions and endless to-do lists, sometimes we can feel overwhelmed by all the things we have to do or want to do leaving us feeling stressed or anxious. Feel Better Live More Bitesize is my weekly podcast for your mind, body, and heart. Each week I’ll be featuring inspirational stories and practical tips from some of my former guests. Today’s clip is from episode 260 of the podcast with Oliver Burkeman - journalist and author of the brilliant book Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management For Mortals. Oliver believes that many of the productivity hacks that we learn are a delusion. Time management doesn’t mean becoming more productive, it means deciding what to neglect. In this clip, he shares some of his tips to help overcome overwhelm, make better choices, and build a meaningful relationship with time. Thanks to our sponsor https://www.drinkag1.com/livemore Support the podcast and enjoy Ad-Free episodes. Try FREE for 7 days on Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/feelbetterlivemore. For other podcast platforms go to https://fblm.supercast.com. Show notes and the full podcast are available at drchatterjee.com/260 DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

Today's Bite Size episode is brought to you by AG1, a science-driven daily health drink with over 70 essential nutrients to support your overall health. It includes vitamin C and zinc, which helps support a healthy immune system, something that is really important at this time of year. It also contains prebiotics and digestive enzymes that help support your gut health. It's really tasty and has been in my own life for over five years. Until the end of January, AG1 are giving a limited time offer. Usually they offer my listeners a one-year supply of vitamin D and K2 and five free travel packs with their first order. But until the end of January, they are doubling the five free travel packs to

10. And these packs are perfect for keeping in your backpack, office, or car. If you want to take advantage of this limited time offer, all you have to do is go to drinkag1.com forward slash live more. Welcome to Feel Better Live More Bite Size, your weekly dose of positivity and optimism to get you ready for the weekend. Today's clip is from episode 260 of the podcast with Oliver Berkman, journalist and author of the fantastic book, 4,000 Weeks, Time Management for Mortals. Now, Oliver believes that many of the productivity hacks that we learn are a delusion. Time management does not mean becoming more productive. It means deciding what to neglect. And in this clip, Oliver shares some of his tips to help overcome overwhelm, make better choices, and build a meaningful relationship

with time. The big theme I keep getting in your book is this idea that there are limits. There are limits to what we can do with our time. There are limits to what we can care about. There are limits to what we can do with our time. There are limits to what we can care about. This idea that these ideas and these concepts are limitless is actually part of the problem. Right. We are finite creatures existing in this world of infinite inputs and opportunities and suffering and all the rest of it. There's always going to be this mismatch.

I think what we spend a lot of our lives doing without realizing it is trying to get over that fundamental mathematical fact. Limited time means you have to make tough choices. You have to not do things that would matter. And in order to do other things, you have to neglect certain potential friendships you could be nurturing in order to focus on some other relationships in your life. You just have to, because we're just finite. But the most obvious one for most people on a day-to-day basis, I think, is just work, right? The volume of emails, the volume of things that the boss is asking you to do or that you want to do in your work. We think that a lot of this productivity, time management stuff, and other kinds of personal development advice, we think that they're like a backdoor to get around that.

And that just leads to more stress because they're not. I'm drawn to this line in your book. The more you try to manage your time with the goal of achieving a feeling of total control and freedom from the inevitable constraints of being human, the more stressful, empty, and frustrating life gets. I mean, I think that kind of says it all. Yeah, thank you. Yes, I hope so. I mean, then there's a flip side to it, right? What that implies is that when you can ease up on that desire for control,

and for this kind of unrealistic control, that's when you really do step into a kind of real agency. That's when you can do meaningful and joyful and cool things with your life, right? So it's not just a matter of this thing you're trying to do is impossible, give up, live life in despair because there's no point. It's like, no, that's the bit that if you can drop that, or at least somewhat drop that sort of constant, worried, anxious attempt to bring the world under your control so you can feel okay about it. If you can let go of that, that's when you can really like plunge into life and do stuff that counts and that matters to you because you're no longer wasting all your time and attention on that

pointless quest. The one way to feel totally in control of some project that you really care about in your life and like it is totally perfect still is never to start it, right? Because then you've got this beautiful mental image of this song you're going to write or marriage you're going to have or house you're going to find or book you're going to write. And it's pristine. Nothing can go wrong with it as long as it is completely unreal. And then the moment that it actually starts being created because you're doing something in the real world, in one way or another, you're going to run up against the inevitability of imperfection and limit. It's going to be hard, or it's going to be uncertain, or it's going to be a little bit

less than the perfect image you'd had of it or something. And that's just baked in to bringing it into reality. So then I think it becomes very tempting for people to never quite get started on things because it feels nicer and more powerful in a way. If you feel more powerful while you haven't like let it out into the world, it's a bogus kind of power because obviously you're not, you haven't done it. And you've also got that sense of control. Yes. There's a writer who I quote in the book, David Cain, a Canadian writer and blogger whose

work I really admire, who makes this point that like, when you think you have like three hours to complete some project or say you've got to tidy the house and you've got half an hour to do something, you don't really have three hours or have half an hour. What you mean is you expect it. It means your best guess in the present moment now is that nothing's going to get in your way until the three hours when the next thing's going to happen. That's actually a really deep contrast, that notion of actually having time versus just saying, no, I expect it. I'm here in the present moment. And I believe that things are going to unfold in this way in the future. But none of us

have any control over the future, like true control. And so because we want that control, because we want to be limitless about in that sense as well, in the sense of being able to like dictate what's going to be happening, that's just a constant recipe for anxiety because our desire to control the next moment is rubbing up against the absolute knowledge that actually you can't. So, you know, if you're a sort of chronic worrier about trains and travel related things, which I definitely have some experience of, you sit there in the present moment, like hoping that you're going to get to the station on time or hoping that the train's going to arrive on time. And it feels in that moment, like once that thing happens and it's on time, you're going to be able

to relax, but you're never going to be able to relax because then there's the next thing, right? Then will the train arrive on time? Will there be a taxi if you need to get a taxi? You're not actually in the present moment, are you? Because you're planning for the future and when that happens. And you're trying to sort of reach out to the present moment and exert some control over the next one. Of course, that's going to be a recipe for anxiety because that's not possible.

And I think it's fine to plan, right? It's fine to say, here's how I'd like today to go. Here's what, when I have some say in how today goes, I'm going to steer it in this direction rather than that direction. Fine. But this idea that you're like controlling the future from the present, again, it's kind of a, it gets kind of deep, but I think it's, I think we're all prone to it. Yeah, it is deep, but I think it's such an important, it's an important point for us all to consider.

But I think it's such an important point for us all to consider. The whole notion of the sort of resource view of time, the idea that there's me and then there's some time that I have, a little bit like some money that I have or some physical possessions that I have or something. It doesn't quite work and it leads us into some strange places because actually, you know, we don't have time in that sense, right? You just get one moment at, right? You don't, you just get one moment at a time. You can't, you can't actually put time aside. You can't pause time. You can't decide to not spend the next minute of your life. Like you're just living it. You're just in it. It's a fairly involved argument at that point in the book. But I think that the basic point here is just that if you try to take this attitude of making the best use of something, when in fact, it's more like you just are a portion of time in some mysterious way, right? Let me see if I can convey this. It's like you're trying to get

sort of on top of your own life. You're trying to be like the air traffic controller of things somehow. And that sort of alienates you from actually being here, right here in the moment of your life. Because everything, I mean, apart from anything else, everything becomes a question of like, am I using this hour best for, what is it, some future goal? To make the most money, to achieve this outcome I want, to please somebody who I think needs to be pleased in my life you know and if you're only asking about your time am I using it in the right way for that future goal it's almost impossible yeah to find it truly meaningful and absorbing in the moment because those are just two different fundamentally different lenses right so in a way you almost have to be willing to waste time if what we mean by waste time is is not be using it in an instrumental way in order to use it well

which is a total weird paradox that i'm still trying to get my mind around it's these are these are these big existential questions like who are we what does it mean to live a good life a meaningful life i i love the idea that if you're constantly analyzing and seeing, am I using my time well? Yeah, you're not in your life. You're outside of your life looking in, which can have value from time to time. But if that's the kind of, if you're spending all of your waking hours like that every day, you're never in your life and actually experiencing it. I want to talk about this concept of wasting time.

Because wasting time, I think, is what we say in reference to what we think we should be doing with our time which is maximizing and every moment of it and actually some of the most pleasurable experiences when we actually by society standard are wasting time doing nothing staring at the birds yeah because then we feel we're wasting time. That means we're wasting our lives. And therefore, oh, we should be doing more. But actually, those little moments where you do waste time, well, that's kind of what life's about, isn't it? No, I think so. Language gets in the way here, right? Because wasting is a bad thing almost by definition. But actually, we've come to define using time well in a way that excludes lots and lots of really pleasurable and enjoyable and meaningful experiences.

Again, I think where we use that word is we judge experiences that aren't leading somewhere, right? So we think of a day being wasted if I haven't sort of made progress towards my various goals that are in the future. And that's important. I mean, you know, of course, everyone has some kind of outcomes that they're working towards. But if you define every moment that doesn't add up towards those outcomes as wasted, then yeah, you're going to miss the very substance of being alive. And yeah, no, totally. It always reminds me, I don't know if this is quite the right parallel, but it's almost this idea that once you stop focusing on where you're getting you actually have a fuller experience it always reminds me of my experience

and i feel like half the people i ever have this conversation with about doing a driving test where like about half people i've ever discussed this with say that it was only after they were absolutely convinced they'd failed because they screwed up in the first few minutes of their driving test but they were able to like relax into their driving test and pass it and do really well. It's a very common experience with driving tests. And it's just this notion, I like it because it really speaks to this idea that like, sometimes you need to not be trying to make the most of an experience or to achieve certain outcome in order to just like be most sort of relaxedly in it.

And then you find, as in the driving test case, that you also do accomplish things in those moments. So like, you know, you're probably looking, watching the birds or the flowers, and you do get a really good idea for some piece of work that you've been like stumped on, right? But only because you weren't really trying to do that. only because you weren't really trying to do that. There are limits. There's no way to perfectly spend your day. Maybe that's the myth that we're sold these days, which is why your book is such a welcome antidote to that. It's kind of like, that doesn't exist. No one is spending the perfect day. Yeah. Yeah. I think perfection, pretty much by definition, perfection doesn't exist in reality. And that is at the core of all of

this. How come you're not a perfectionist anymore? Well, I don't know that I'm not a perfectionist, but I'm definitely in recovery to a significant extent. I think that lots of different parts of that puzzle. One is just something deep in me steered me into newspaper journalism first as a way of you know working in a very deadline driven environment like that will will have a tendency to sort of slightly beat the perfectionism out of you because you know you'll get to whatever it was monday tuesday morning and you still haven't got a good idea for your weekly column well then you have to use one of the bad ideas like i mean of course and what you learn after a while is bears very little resemblance to the output anyway like very often the bad ideas are the best columns

very often the columns that i thought were least good were the ones that people seemed most excited by you know it's like just don't know i've got no idea so you might as well just do it that was part of it um i think becoming a parent is an interesting part of this because then you're in this relationship where like i mean it's true of all relationships but it's very obvious with small children they're just going to keep you can't press pause like they're just good they're going to be a day older tomorrow and a day older after that and and very swiftly you know you can prepare when you know a baby's coming, you can prepare to try to be perfect in those first months or something. But as soon as you're then in it, it's just like,

it's all moving so fast. Obviously, there's not going to be any perfection here. Obviously, it's just going to be constant improvisation and winging it, which we all are doing all the time anyway. Many people these days are struggling they feel a chronic state of overwhelm they feel that they don't have enough time to get all the things done that they think they need to get done do you have any kind of final thoughts or words to share with people you don't have to fight to somehow make time for everything that matters that that's kind of a futile quest you just have somehow make time for everything that matters, that that's kind of a futile quest.

You just have to make time for some things that matter and let it go, that it's not going to be everything. I mean, I think one way to think about this is just to sort of ask yourself how you might do today differently if you really knew and believed that you definitely weren't going to get all the things done that you were hoping to get done and might you in that situation make at least a little bit of time now today for something that you know you really care about rather than telling yourself that that's coming down the pike that you're going to get all this other stuff out of the way first and then you're going to have time for that some other things are not going to get done and that was always the case and but just do it from

this position of like being in touch with with reality and and not endlessly berating yourself and beating yourself up for not being able to sort of evade the terms and conditions of being human hope you enjoyed that bite-sized clip i hope you have a wonderful weekend and i'll be back next week with my long-form conversational wednesday and the latest episode of bite science next friday