Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - BITESIZE | The Surprising Truth About Smartphones: How To Boost Your Happiness and Fix Your Focus | Dr Anders Hansen #482

Episode Date: October 3, 2024

Today’s episode is about a topic that I am truly passionate about – the introduction of social media and smartphones into all aspects of our lives – and what impact this is having on us individually and collectively.   Feel Better Live More Bitesize is my weekly podcast for your mind, body, and heart. Each week I’ll be featuring inspirational stories and practical tips from some of my former guests.   Today’s clip is from episode 381 of the podcast with Swedish psychiatrist, globally renowned speaker and best-selling author Dr Anders Hansen.   In this clip we discuss how overuse of technology can have such a pervasive impact in all areas of our life from our health and happiness to the quality of our relationships.  Thanks to our sponsor https://www.drinkag1.com/livemore Support the podcast and enjoy Ad-Free episodes. Try FREE for 7 days on Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/feelbetterlivemore. For other podcast platforms go to https://fblm.supercast.com. Show notes and the full podcast are available at https://drchatterjee.com/381 DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

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10. And these packs are perfect for keeping in your backpack, office, or car. If you want to take advantage of this limited time offer, all you have to do is go to drinkag1.com forward slash live more. Welcome to Feel Better Live More Bite Size, your weekly dose of positivity and optimism to get you ready for the weekend. Today's clip is from episode 381 of the podcast with Swedish psychiatrist, globally renowned speaker, and best-selling author, Dr. Anders Hansen. In this clip, we discuss how the overuse of technology can have a pervasive impact in all areas of our life, from our health and happiness, to the quality of our relationships.

The most valuable thing in today's society is not gold or yen or euros or pounds. It's human attention. And a number of companies have been incredibly good at grabbing that attention. If you try to find the customer service on Facebook, you realize that it's very hard. And that's because you are not the customer of Facebook. You are the product. Every second that we spent on our screens is money for them. And they had just gotten better and better and better at doing that.

And as a consequence, we spend more and more and more time on our screens. And today for adults, it's somewhere between four to five hours. For teenagers, it's five, perhaps even six hours. These things are difficult to measure because it increases so fast. And what's the consequence of that? Well, that is that when we spend so much time on this, we don't sleep as much, we don't move as much, and we don't meet as much in real life.

And all of these things, exercise, sleep, and meeting in real life are protecting us against depressions. So in modern life, we become more susceptible to depressions and anxiety because protective factors are being eroded by modern technology. It's not what we do online that is most important. It's what we don't do when we are online. line that is most important. It's what we don't do when we are online. I think many of us intuitively know that we feel better when we have not spent hours looking at our phones or scrolling Instagram or whatever it might be. And I appreciate everyone has a different relationship with things like Instagram. Some people use it to follow inspirational accounts or catch up with family.

I understand all that. But as a society, it is very clear that these things are having, for all their potential benefits, there are also some very, very worrying negatives. But I think most people intuitively know that phone use or excessive phone use is a problem. Yet, despite us talking about it, despite them hearing about it, a lot of people just aren't able to change what they do. Because it's so difficult. Smartphones, they are super stimuli. There is nothing that is so rewarding in nature as TikTok, for instance. Every time you turn TikTok on, you have a $10 billion artificial intelligence

directed towards you to figure out what should I show Rangham so that he doesn't turn off? Because every second of his time on this platform is money for us. And so I think personally that we have been very naive in implementing these incredibly powerful technologies, especially directed to children and teenagers without any regulation.

And we feel bad and guilty because we constantly return to our phones. I do that as well. And I've just realized that it's not just about characters. These are very powerful stimuli. And the only way to fix that is to create distance to them don't have them around all the times they are great tools for some things yeah but don't have them around all the time because they will be too attractive this modern epidemic of distraction is so harmful because

anything good in life comes from presence everything good in life comes from presence. Everything good in life comes from presence. Deep focus at work, me and you interacting now with no phones here, just me and you sitting across the table, me chatting to my wife about something important, me chatting to my children, me hanging out with my buddies and having a laugh. All those things require attention and presence if you're going to get the true value of them. All of those experiences get diminished when we can't focus, when we cannot maintain our attention. So I guess what I'm trying to get to, Anders, is how do we change things? What do we do if we look at the addiction with smartphones? If I look at what's

happening with children now, you can have quite a negative view about the future of humanity. You think, well, actually, where does this go in five years, in 10 years? Where do we end up in 20 years? There's a book called Reclaiming Conversation, which is brilliant. I love it. And this whole idea that we're losing the art of conversation, this is one of the things that makes us human. And many kids and teenagers, apparently, according to Sherry in her research, prefer to communicate electronically because it's more predictable. I've never forgot that since I read it, where you can edit a text message, you can check it over a few times, get it perfect before you send it. But in real life now, me and you, we have the risk saying something wrong, getting our words jumbled, right?

Maybe trying to tell a story and forgetting it halfway through. That's the risk that we are running by having this real-time conversation. But it's also something that is part of humanity, it's part of who we are running by having this real-time conversation. But it's also something that is part of humanity. It's part of who we are. We're not wired for these perfectly edited communications, are we? Absolutely. That's a good point.

And I think loneliness is something for us that's boring. But historically, loneliness was death. To be excluded from the group, then you were gone. To be part of a group was as important as having food. That's why we have so strong instincts to create bonds to other people. We read one another, we're very good at that, and we try to create bonds, social bonds, and we want to belong to a group at all costs. Now, those social needs, they were created during millions and millions and millions of years where we met physically. And now all of a sudden we meet like this. And we can replace some of that with a screen,

but we can't replace all of it. It's not just your face expression on the screen. but we can't replace all of it. It's not just your face expression on the screen. You know, it's so many more signals that we are constantly registering. And we all felt that during COVID when we spent so much time on our screens that they were good for helping us during a difficult period,

but most of us felt very lonely and isolated. And that shows, I think, that there's a purely physical dimension to our incredible strong social need. And when shows, I think, that there's a purely physical dimension to our incredible strong social need. And when that need is being eroded by these incredibly powerful super stimuli, we spend six hours on this, the brain thinks that we're lonely. And if we're lonely, well, then we will die. That's mortal danger. And then we feel crappy, of course. That's mortal danger.

And then we feel crappy, of course. We have to intentionally create some rules for ourselves. Because if we don't, we'll end up allowing Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter to distract us and untrain our focus. Exactly. And there's actually been experiments made where you have students doing tests for focus and for memory and half of them bring their phone into the testing room. The other half leave their phone outside.

And the ones that bring the phones with them don't pick it up. They just have it in the pocket. And it turns out that the ones who have left the phone outside perform better. Even if you don't pick it up. So it's just by being in the same room it distracts you.

And the reason is probably that it's providing you with so much stimulation that you must constantly think, I'm not going to pick up my phone. I'm not going to pick up my phone. And then you get distracted. And that doesn't matter if you're doing something very ordinary. But if you have to be focused at your work or in school, you're studying for exam, leave the phone outside. There's also been experience made where you have two people talking to a stranger. They sit in front of one another and there's a table in between.

And they talk for 10 minutes about the subject. And on half of these tables, there is a notebook, paper and pen. And. And on half of these tables, there is a notebook, paper and pen. And on the other half of the tables, there's a phone. And they don't pick up the phone. But it turns out that the pairs who have a phone on their table, they find the discussion less interesting.

They even find the person they're talking to less reliable. And that's probably because they have to think, I'm not going to pick up my phone. I'm not going to pick up my phone. I'm not going to pick up my phone. So it steals some of your mental bandwidth just by being around. And that's why we have to create distance to it. And we feel guilty for this.

We feel, you know, I have a bad character because I can't help myself picking up all the time. But we shouldn't because these are incredibly powerful stimuli. And again, someone is making money from that. Yeah. You also write in the Attention Fix about low-tech parents, and you reference, I think, Steve Jobs and how, you know, we've heard this before, but I think it's worth reiterating that a lot of the creators of these products did not allow their children on them. Exactly.

There was a journalist that came home to Steve Jobs and he thought that there would be iPads everywhere and, you know, all the screens in every room. And there weren't. He was very restrictive on how much his kids could use iPads. on how much his kids could use iPads. And remember, Steve Jobs is one of the persons who had the biggest insights on how technology affects us ever. And he himself was cautious about using it too much. That says something. The CEO of Apple, Tim Cook, has said that

if you are looking at a screen more than you are looking at someone's eyes, you're doing something wrong. So the CEO of the company that makes the most money from screens says, don't use our products too much. That says something

on how incredibly addictive these things are and how naive we have been in implementing them so widely. And again, especially toward children. And as I said before, I think the main impact of digital life on our wellbeing is not what we do online, but what we don't do when we are online.

We don't sleep as much, we don't exercise as much, and we don't meet. But there is a big caveat to this, and that is overusage of social media seems to be dangerous for teenagers. For girls in the age 12 to 13, boys 14 to 15. That's probably because this is a time around puberty. Why is it dangerous? Well, I think that part of your life, you really desperately want to belong to a group.

And we have compared ourselves to a small group during all of human history. You know, there were 50, 100 people who you met during your entire life. That was your tribe or your band. And you compare yourselves to perhaps 20 or 30 of them who were around your age. And now you compare yourself to the entire planet. And there's always someone who is smarter and better looking and more successful and richer than you are. And you feel that you are worthless. I am not good enough.

And you get this signal from your screens five or six hours every day. And you have your friends' photos. And for every photo on Instagram, there was a hundred photos that was discarded that you don't see. And if that wasn't enough, you have a whole army

of Instagrammers and influencers who get paid to show their perfect life. And what that signal sends to you is that I'm not good enough. And then you feel lonely and then you feel like you're being pushed out of the group. And that is registered in the brain as something that is extremely dangerous. And that's why you feel so bad about it.

You know, the problem is, Anders, the way I see it is that we can know this with our rational brains. We know we're comparing the highlight reel of someone else's life to the mundane reality of our day-to-day life. We know that. We hear it. You've said it. I've said it. But I still don't think knowing it makes a jot of difference because you can know it, but your subconscious when you're scrolling is still picking on this idea that their life is better. Their life is better. Their life is better. One morning, this is about, I don't know, a few months ago, I broke one of my rules. I was on Instagram very early. I don't know why, but we're all human. We're all seduced by these devices. And I saw something, I can't remember what it was, but I started to feel

bad afterwards. And then I was making a hot drink in the kitchen. I thought, wow, wrong. Nothing has happened, right? Literally nothing has happened. You're still here in your house. Your wife and kids are still sleeping. The birds are singing in the garden, right? Nothing has happened apart from the fact I went on Instagram for a few minutes. So nothing in the real world changed. Yeah. Yet my mental state changed from scrolling. And I was like, this is utter madness. Yeah, and if you take a step back, you let someone who you have never met, who you will never meet, make you feel inadequate.

Yeah. Because they had a better looking toilet or more expensive vacation or a nicer car or what have you. I mean, that's insane. Of course, it happens to me all the time as well. But the more you think about these things, when you read about it, and you have to hear it many times, you have to hear it from many sort of different angles and present it in different ways, then you start to seeing it being played out in yourselves. And then you will make changes. You will protect your attention

so that you don't feel inadequate by these posts and so on. And this is very, very difficult. It's a constant uphill battle. But I mean, if we want to feel as good as possible, then we have to do this. Hope you enjoyed that bite-sized clip. Do spread the love by sharing this episode with your friends

and family. And if you want more, why not go back and listen to the original full conversation with my guest. If you enjoyed this episode, I think you will really enjoy my bite-sized Friday email. It's called the Friday Five. And each week I share things that I do not share on social media. It contains five short doses of positivity, articles or books that I'm reading, quotes that I'm thinking about, exciting research I've come across and so much more. I really think you're going to love it.

The goal is for it to be a small yet powerful dose of feel good to get you ready for the weekend. You can sign up for it free of charge at drchatterjee.com forward slash Friday Five. I hope you have a wonderful weekend. Make sure you have pressed subscribe and I'll be back next week with my long form conversational Wednesday and the latest episode of Bite Science next Friday.