Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - Finding Your Purpose at Any Age: Life Lessons from 103-Year-Old Dr Gladys McGarey #460

Episode Date: June 11, 2024

At the age of 103, not only is today’s guest the oldest I’ve ever welcomed onto my podcast, but she’s also the oldest returning guest, too!   Dr Gladys McGarey is the co-founder of the American Holistic Medical Association and the author of the fantastic book The Well-Lived Life: A 103-Year-Old Doctor's Six Secrets to Health and Happiness at Every Age. She began her medical practice at a time when women couldn’t even own their own bank accounts, and over the past sixty years, she’s pioneered a new way of thinking about disease and health that’s transformed the way we imagine health care and self-care around the world. In this wonderful and uplifting conversation, and with her trademark humour and compassion, Gladys offers profound insights on living with purpose, navigating adversity and finding healing within ourselves.  We explore how to avoid living with regrets, the importance of parents truly listening to and supporting their children and finding your unique purpose that ‘feeds your soul’. We also look at how we can bring a more positive attitude to negative experiences and how Gladys lives by what she calls her "5 Ls" - life, love, laughter, labour and listening. Still thriving at 103, she embodies staying curious, adaptable and active. During our conversation, she shares her views on ageing, believing in ‘ageing into health’ rather than ‘anti-ageing.’ She also stresses the importance of doctors listening to - and loving - their patients but that it’s ultimately us who are responsible for our own healing. Gladys’s century of life experiences has something to offer everyone. Her wisdom will inspire you to reflect on your own purpose, face life's challenges with resilience and make the most of the years ahead. It was an honour to speak to Gladys again and have such a deep and honest conversation with her. I hope you enjoy listening to her as much as I did. Her playfulness, humour, and can-do attitude remind us that it's never too late to learn, grow and make a positive impact on the world around us.  Support the podcast and enjoy Ad-Free episodes. Try FREE for 7 days on Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/feelbetterlivemore. For other podcast platforms go to https://fblm.supercast.com. Thanks to our sponsors: https://vivobarefoot.com/livemore https://drinkag1.com/livemore Show notes https://drchatterjee.com/460 DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or qualified healthcare provider. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

I can't see. I'm legally blind. My hearing is bad. I have to use hearing aids. I can't walk without a walker. I mean, you know, there are lots of things I can't do, but I'm talking to people around the world. I mean, is this possible? So I call it aging into health. I can do things now that I've never been able to do before. Hey guys, how you doing? Hope you're having a good week so far. My name is Dr. Rangan Chatterjee, and this is my podcast, Feel Better, Live More. feel better, live more. At the age of 103, not only is today's guest the oldest I've ever welcomed onto my podcast, but she's also the oldest returning guest, having first appeared in what

was a wonderful conversation back on episode 394. Dr. Gladys McCary is the co-founder of the American Holistic Medical Association and the author of the fantastic book, The Well-Lived Life, a 103-year-old doctor's six secrets to health and happiness at every age. even own their own bank accounts. And over the past 60 years, she's pioneered a new way of thinking about disease and health that's transformed the way we imagine healthcare and self-care all around the world. In this wonderful and uplifting conversation, and with her trademark humor and compassion, Gladys offers profound insights on living with purpose and navigating adversity. She explains how we can bring a more positive attitude to negative experiences, her own perspective on avoiding regrets, the importance of parents truly listening to and supporting their children,

and she shares the five L's that she lives by, life, love, laughter, labour and listening. She also opens up about her views on ageing. Believing in the concept of ageing into health rather than anti-ageing. And stresses the importance of doctors listening to and loving their patients. But that ultimately it's us who are responsible for our own healing. A message that I'm completely on board with. but that ultimately it's us who are responsible for our own healing. A message that I'm completely on board with.

Still thriving at 103, Gladys is someone who beautifully demonstrates the importance of staying curious, adaptable and active. I genuinely believe that we simply do not spend enough time listening to the wisdom of our elders. Gladys' century of life experience has something to offer everyone and I'm certain that her words will inspire you to reflect on your own purpose and make the most of the years ahead. It really was an honour to speak to Gladys again and have such a deep and honest conversation with her. Her playfulness, humour and can-do attitude remind all of us that it's never too late to learn, grow, and make a positive impact on the world around us.

One thing I've noticed is that many people have a negative relationship with their past. They are consumed with regret. And I've heard you say that at the age of 103, you have no regrets. So I'm interested to know, Gladys, in your opinion, what is the difference between people who live with regrets and people like yourself who don't? Well, you know, I think I have a choice. I could spend my time trying to fix something from the past, or I could get on with what life is doing. Let me tell you a joke. I mean, this actually happened. I'd had my 99th birthday party

and I was at the grocery store. And I got my groceries and I was taking them out to my car. And elderly gentleman came by and he said, he greeted me and he said, oh, may I help you? And I said, no, no, you don't need to. I can do this. And he stood up straight and he said, well, I'm 86 years old. Well, I stood up by my cart and I said, well, I'm 99.

And I marched off and got into my car and sat down and said, you nasty old lady. What a terrible thing. He was just a nice old man that was trying to do a nice thing. And you better get out of this car and go into the grocery store and apologize to him because that was a terrible thing to do. And then I got to thinking about what it was. And I got to laughing because I thought, I said to myself, two kindergarten kids in the, you know, trying to outdo each other. And I got to laughing so hard, I couldn't get out of the car. And I finally said, you know, what's going to really happen is he's going to go home and he's going to say to his wife, you know what happened?

I tried to help an old lady, that nasty old lady, and he goes, and so I thought the two of them would have a good laugh about it at home. I have the laughing bug in my car and I didn't need to go and try and fix it. my car and I didn't need to go and try and fix it. Now, so what I'm telling this is there are times when we do things that we regret and we can spend a lot of time trying to fix them. And it may be totally unnecessary because it may be just a process that needs to be gone through in order to live through it and not just get over it. So my thoughts are that if there are things, if, I mean, there are many things that I would rather have not had happen, but they happen, if I can live through those, not just try to get overdone, but live through them, understand them, do what I need to, and then go on with my life, they're not going to hold me back. You know, it's sort of like having a bag of heavy things

on your shoulder. And if you keep looking at them all the time, you're going to get a stiff neck. You have to let that stuff be where it is and get on with your life. You don't have to, but this is what I'm trying to do. Do you think, Gladys, you've always had that ability to let go of things in the past and move on? Or was it something you developed at some point during your life? I think my mother helped me develop this. I had an amazing mother. mother. But when I was in grade school, I had to repeat first grade twice because I couldn't read or write. I was the class dummy. I was the stupid one I was, my self-image as a small child was very damaged.

Because I thought, now not at home. At home, everything got patched up and worked okay. But in school, it was terrible. I was very unhappy and very hurt and very broken and all of that. But when I got into third grade, the teacher there saw something in me that the first grade teacher had not seen. She realized that I couldn't read or write. She didn't know why, I guess, but that I couldn't do it but i could talk so she appointed me as class governor so i got to take things that our class did to the whole

student body so it put me in a whole different category so in that category, I was accepted and I could do it. So as part of that whole process, there was a play. And the play was the frog jumped over the pond. And we were to take that play to the whole student body. Well, since I was the tallest one in the class now, since I had to repeat the first grade, I was chosen to be the frog. And so the idea was that there was a pan of water and I was able to jump over that pan of water and go on with the play. It was a whole over that pan of water and go on with the play. It was a whole play that we were going to do

for the student body. Well, I was very confident because my mother had made me a frog suit and dyed it green and all of that. I was sure I could do this and I could do it just fine. So I walked out with great confidence onto the stage and the whole student body was there and I walk onto the stage but just as I looked down at the audience I see my two older brothers in the first line or the first row of the student body. And it just threw me off my step

enough that when I jumped over the pond, I didn't jump over it, I jumped into it. So I landed in the pond, not over the pond. And the student body was hysterical. They were laughing so hard and I was standing in the pond. My suit, my mother had used very, some cheap dye. So my suit was beginning to fade. As I was crying, I couldn't move. I was totally broken. I had, you know, this was the end of everything. The world had ended.

I was done. I couldn't get out of the pond. The teacher had to come and get me, take me off the stage, and go on with the whole thing. But the student body was hysterical. They were laughing so hard about what had happened. So when we got home that night, my brothers are telling the family this whole scene. I'm giving them the devil's eye and they're not paying attention to me, but they are telling this. And finally, my mother says to them, all right, boys, now you've had your fun. What can we as a family do so that if something like this ever happens to Gladys again, she'll be able to get the people to laugh with her, not at her.

with her, not at her. And whatever it was that we as a family did at that time really, really changed things. Because I've had so many times when I've stumbled or something has happened and, you know, some process getting onto the stage. But I could always find something funny to say so that the audience was in my hands before I ever started my lecture. So it was something that I was blessed with this mother who had the ability to take things that were difficult and painful

and twist them just enough to get some humor out of them. And it saved my life. It saved my career. It saved all kinds of things. So, yes. Yeah, that's a wonderful story. Thank you for sharing it. You know, it's interesting hearing that.

As a parent myself, it makes me think how important the little things that we do with our kids are every time they go through adversity. through adversity, the way we interact with them, the things that we say to them, can have quite a profound impact on how they view obstacles and adversity for the rest of their life. So I guess, Claudice, as a parent myself, and my children at the moment are 13 and 11, I know you have got kids, grandkids, great-grandkids. In the context of that lesson, I wonder what kind of advice you would have to a parent like me or any parent, frankly, as to what are some of the key things that we should be thinking about doing with our own children? For my children, the son of mine, John, when he was seven, he came into the living room one day and he said, I wish Jesus was here. And I said, Oh, well, I do too. Why, why you? And he said, because I have

questions. And I said, Well, try me. He says, you don't have those answers. And I said, well, maybe I have something. Try me. And so he says, all right. And he says, how can God be if he never got started? And I said, oh, all right. Well, maybe it's like a circle. It doesn't have a beginning and then end. He says, I know you didn't have the answers. And he goes running off. But of course, he turned into a minister.

He's a retired Presbyterian minister. It's that he was giving me that information about where he wanted to go with his life. And my next son came in one day and he says, he was four. He says, I know something, I know something. And I said, well, what's yours? He says, if I make a friend and he makes a friend and he makes a friend, it's going to go all around the world to come back to me. Of course, he's a psychologist. new souls that come in are bringing with them as their, not just luggage, but their heritage and what their dream is and who they think they are. And for me, it's been just a, not just an eye-opening event in my life when these things happen, it's been a pure joy. And now it's happening with my great-grandkids.

It's just great. If you look for what these children are really saying, oh boy, what they say. Yeah. It's so profound that, you know, I hear that and I'm reflecting on so much this idea that our kids know what they're here to do, perhaps, even at that young age. And perhaps as adults, we don't allow them to nourish that part of themselves until it gets suppressed down. It kind of reminds me of the first secret in your book, The Well-Lived Life,

you know, these six secrets that you talk about. The first one is, you are here for a reason. Now, that story with your two children absolutely speaks to that, that they were seemingly showing you what that reason was at a very young age through the questions they were asking you. But why did you start your book with Secret One, You Are Here for a Reason, and this idea that our purpose is really, really important? Because I think purpose, Gladys, is something that more and more people are talking about these days, but I think for some people it's getting

really, really confusing. So, you know, broad question to you, what is purpose and why is it so important that we find our own? Because purpose is what feeds your soul. feeds your soul. And our inner knowing knows why you're here. And if you try to pay attention to that, it's amazing. Now, let me tell you about my great-grandkid. This just happened. Now it's another story. May I tell another story? Please, please. I'm enjoying your stories. Please, please. I'm enjoying your stories. Well, they take, sometimes, well, for me anyway, stories tell more than a long dissertation about, you know, so on. Anyway, I have a five-year-old great-grandson by the name of Ian. grandson by the name of Ian. And his mother told us last week that Ian was standing with two of his friends. There was a little girl and a little boy. They're five years old. So the little boy, little girl, and Ian, who is five years old. And they have in front of them a little dish.

And in this dish are some nickels and dimes and pennies and so on. Because this group of little children and their teacher have put this money together to send to somebody. I don't know who. I don't know that the kids knew who. But somebody had needed to have a well and they didn't have enough money to dig for a well.

So they were collecting money in this little dish to send to the people that were going to dig a well. And when they had finished putting all their nickels and dimes in and stuff, the little girl said, should we pray? And the little boy standing next to her said, I don't think we can pray. to her and said, I don't think we can pray. And Ian, standing beside them, said, of course we can pray. God's all around us.

Let us pray. So, you know, if you give the people who are coming in the opportunity to let you know what it is that they're thinking and what they're reaching for they'll reach further if we if we shut it down oh that's that's sad yeah so let's let's pay attention to them because they've got messages, not just for themselves, but for the rest of us. For someone who perhaps is, you know, an adult, they are working, maybe they've even retired, and they feel that that inner knowing was suppressed when they were a child, and that they have lived a life that wasn't true to them. I mean, one of the key learnings I get from studying your book and your life

is that it is never too late to change course. But for that person who is struggling and thinks, well, that's all very well if you have parents who allow you to speak your truth and find your purpose. But I didn't have that. I don't have it now. I don't like my job. I don't like my life. How can they use this idea of yours that you are here for a reason to help them improve their own life? Well, nobody can choose for you

unless you allow them to choose for you what it is that you want to be and what you want to do. I mean, you know, we as human beings have the opportunity and actually the responsibility to choose what our direction is and what we're going to pay attention to. See, I have this kind of, this isn't a theology or anything. It's just kind of an idea I have in my mind. or anything. It's just kind of an idea I have in my mind. God, whatever God is to any one of us, created the universe. It was perfect. Everything was right the way it was supposed to be.

It was running the way it was supposed to be and all of that. And then he created, he, she created the human being and said to us, now, look at this universe. It's perfect. Everything's the way it's supposed to be. It's perfect. But you're the only creation which has free will and choice. And I am now creating you and you have free will and free choice. And you're the only living entity on this whole universe that has that quality. So therefore, I give you dominion over the earth, or over the universe, actually, the

whole thing. And we, in our arrogance, thought he said dominance. So we took over. You know, if we have dominance, oh boy, we can do this. Look what we've done to Mother Earth and to the universe. And we're the only ones who have free choice. So we can either go on destroying or we can take what's there and by our ability with the free choice and free will recreate and do what we can to reclaim the way the universe is, which is perfect. But it's that ability of using our own, each one of us. And so it's not just for the universe, but for ourselves. Are we going to go on making it as bad and worse and so on?

Because we have the idea that we have dominance over the earth. Then we're mistaken and we need to re-look at who we are as human beings. You need to re-look at who we are as human beings and take over the responsibility that we have. Reclaim that and do something for Mother Earth. And there are a lot of people who are doing a lot of work, so I'm not criticizing what we're doing. But we can start fixing things that were damaged that we didn't know any better. Yeah. I mean, there's this idea, isn't there,

that you talk about a lot, you write about a lot, that we have choice. We have choice at where we direct our life energy. And I think that's what you're speaking to a little bit there, that all of us have a little bit of choice, at least where we direct our life energy. And I think that's what you're speaking to a little bit there, that all of us have a little bit of choice, at least where we direct our life energy. Now, where this gets complicated, I think, or where I think these days, the whole idea of purpose can sometimes get confusing for people is that they may think, okay, well, you know, I loved art when I was a child, but my parents said, you can't be an artist. You have to get a real job and do art on the side, for example. Now,

you could argue that their parents were wrong by not allowing their children to pursue art, or you could flip it and go, well, maybe their parents were right. Maybe the job that they do now allows them to feed their family, feed their children, and they can pursue art on the side. So my broader thought, and I've been thinking about this all day in preparation for this conversation with you, Gladys, is I've been thinking about purpose. And you say in your book, we're all here for a reason, but is it that we need to find things to do that are aligned with our purpose? Or is it not that we need to find purpose in do. Just taking a quick break to give a shout out to AG1, one of the sponsors of today's show. Now, if you're looking for something at this time of year to kickstart your health, I'd highly recommend that you consider AG1. AG1 has been in my own life for over five years now. It's a science-driven

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I think it's both. I think it's more productive to find purpose in everything that we do. If we're in a situation where we had to do a certain thing, find out the best way in which we can do that and allow that to come into our purpose. In other words, we take what's coming towards us and we'll sort of like my story about the going into the grocery store and or not, you know, if what we are doing within our purpose. Because that would have taken me, if I'd gone in to try and correct it and try and find the family and so on, it would have taken me clear off of my purpose for that day. And so it's a matter of choice. And if we can find something

that allows the thing that we've done, that was not, certainly not the good thing to do, but if we can find a way in taking that and allow it to align itself with where it is that we're in the process of doing, which is our purpose, then we keep going. Yeah, it makes me think that maybe our purpose is less about the things that we do, but more about the attitude we bring to those things. Absolutely.

Because that's what life and love are. Because, you know, the five L's, they help me to sort of put a kind of a foundation on how to use the purpose and so on. Oh, I'd love to hear them. Please share those five L's. The first two are life and love. The first two have to go together.

Life and love are like a pregnant mother. When we're pregnant, everything we eat, the baby eats. Everything we think, the baby thinks. So throughout that pregnancy, we are one unit, the mother and the baby growing within her. So we're manifesting this whole process as a woman and the baby. have to grow together. And then the part that is the one that needs to step forward, which is life. Life needs to grow. It steps forward and becomes the new entity.

But the starting part of them is together. But the starting part of them is together. So life and love have to be one unit that grows into its own. The third one is laughter. Laughter without love is cruel. It breaks up family. It's cold. It causes wars. It's terrible.

But laughter with love is joy and happiness. The fourth one is labor. I've got to go through it. But labor with love is bliss. It's why you're doing what you're doing. It's why I'm doing what I'm doing. It's what makes our hearts sing. It lifts us up. It's just really important to us. Labor with love. And the fifth one is listening. Listening without love is empty sound. But listening with love is understanding. And for me, these five L's have helped to direct and allow me to make choices and so on in ways that have been very productive. And so that I can live through my process, not just try to get over it. Yeah, thank you for sharing those five L's. Life, love, laughter, labor, and listening. Yes.

Yeah, really, really great little short ditty for us to think about. The third one was laughter. And it struck me right at the start of this conversation, Gladys, as you were telling stories about your children and your grandchildren. You were laughing a lot. There was a really cheeky sense of humor as you were telling these stories, particularly the one of you in the parking lot with that 88-year-old gentleman who you called at 99 an elderly man, which I found really, really fascinating. But it reminds me of a conversation I had with Bronnie Ware. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Bronnie. She wrote a book called The Five Regrets of the Dying. She was a palliative care nurse, and she documented what were the common regrets of people on their deathbeds. And when I spoke to her on this podcast, we had the most gorgeous conversation, Gladys. I asked her, did everyone have regrets?

And if not, what were the qualities that you saw in people who were on their deathbed with no regrets? Now, she identified three qualities. One of them was laughter. She said the ones who didn't have any regrets had a strong sense of humor. You appear to be someone, to me at least,

who has a strong sense of humor. How important do you think that laughter, that cheeky sense of humor is for you to live to the ripe old age of 103? It's what my mother taught me you know the story about uh jumping over the pond and and getting people to laugh with you and not at you at my young age, that was pivotal. Wow. And it's gone with me all through my life because it did with my mother and it did with my brothers. It was her example of living her life.

My mother was an osteopath. She got her osteopathic license in 1913. Women didn't do such things, you know. But she was an osteopath. But she went to India on my dad's passport. She was not considered actually a person. She was part of his luggage. So she, you know, she did what she did.

She didn't take offense at that because there wasn't any sense in taking offense. You know, you do what you have to do. It's sort of like when I got an opportunity to have an internship in Deaconess Hospital in Cincinnati. But when I got there, there wasn't any place for me in the hospital. They'd never had a woman doctor before. There was no place for me to sleep. The guys all had a room and a bathroom and all, but there wasn't anything.

But I got an x-ray table and a pillow and a blanket, and I used it. Because for me, I wasn't going to complain about this because at least I'd gotten in the door. So you take what you can take and use it for what you can use it for. And then you go on with the process of life, which is life living the way you need to live it. But my mother was my teacher on that. She was just, she could, like for instance, the three days before she died, when she was 89,

she fell and broke her leg and so on. She and my dad and I were sitting out on our back porch and she looks at a plant in the garden and she says to my dad, look at that petunia plant. It must have 400 blossoms on it. And my dad says, well, Beth doesn't have more than 40.

She says, what's another zero? You know, it's the ability to take things that come your way and just tuck a little bit of humour into it, and it changes everything. You know, one of the hottest topics in health at the moment, Gladys, is anti-aging. I don't know how much you follow this field of research, but it's a big thing these days.

People are trying to, well, first of all, they're trying to make sure that they live with good mobility and good cognitive function as they get older. Some people are also trying to extend human life. Now, as a 103-year-old who's been practicing medicine, I think for what, 70, 80 years, something like that, which is pretty remarkable, I'm fascinated. Throughout your life, did you think about, what can I do to make sure I live past 100? Or is this something that has just happened? I guess what I'm asking is, have you got to this age because of your lifestyle or in spite of your lifestyle? Be both. But actually, I don't like the anti-aging thing. I'm calling it aging into health. What does that mean? In other words,

growing into health. You know, I feel like there are parts of my life that are healthier now than it has ever been. I can't see. I'm legally blind. My hearing is bad. I have to use hearing aids. I can't walk without a walker. I mean, you know, there are lots of things I can't do, but I'm talking to people around the world. I mean, is this possible? So I call it aging into health. I can do things now that I've never been able to do before.

I mean, how can I talk to you? You know? In England, all of this is coming together now because I'm still alive so I'm in my mind I'm aging into health now the health that I'm aging into is something that I couldn't have done when I was 95 yeah so let's look at this. Yeah. As you were saying that, I thought when you were my age in your mid-40s,

I wasn't even alive. It's just fascinating to think about. I wasn't even alive when you were my age right now. And it's a really interesting concept that aging into health. I don't know what your perspective is on this, Gladys, or how this may have changed over the years, but I would say the pulse of society these days, certainly in the UK, is that aging is often seen as a negative thing. Oh, I'm getting older. My skin isn't as good as it was.

My hair's getting a bit white. Whatever it might be, there's a negative connotation to the idea of aging. But you saying, with a smile on your face, aging into health, that's quite a positive outlook on aging, isn't it? Oh, absolutely. I acknowledge the disabilities that my body is working with because I, as Gladys McGarry, am working with them because I've got assistants. I mean, if I hadn't had the people who could, you know, fit me with those things that fit me so that I can do the things that I can do, I'd be immobile or whatever, I don't know. But it's finding the things that you can do because you're going to do them

no matter what, one way or another. And it's because in your gut, in the inner part of you, you know that you've still got work to do. And if you've still got work to do, then you find a way that you can cooperate and line up with other people. I couldn't even begin to do what I'm doing here if I didn't have my son John here with me. You know, he can do the things that I can't do because I'm 103 and Bea 104,

and he's just 75, and, you know, he's a young spurt. So... Yeah. But that's one of the beautiful things when I reflect on your life. You know, I went for a walk at lunchtime, Gladys, and I'll share with you what went through my mind. You know, I take the attitude of curiosity to pretty much everything I do. I'm always looking to learn from every experience, positive or negative. One of the reasons I resonate so much

with your book is because I share a lot of those philosophies myself, and I didn't have some of them maybe 10 or 15 years ago. So I think now in my mid-40s, I look back on me in my mid-30s and go, well, you didn't really know that much then, did you, Rangan? Come on, you're so much wiser than you were just 10 years ago. Now, that's how I feel today. But I'm thinking, if you take the attitude of curiosity towards your life, as long as you are alive, does that keep happening? Am I going to think at 55, oh man, in your 40s, Rangan, you didn't know much, did you? You know so much more now. And will that keep going? Do you get what I'm getting at? Yes, I do. Because it all depends on what you want. I found my voice when I was, what, 93?

Something like that. Because, you know, when I was a kid, I was a dumbbell. I was, my psyche was traumatized with that idea that I was stupid, okay? Well, I had lived all of those years. I'd written books. I'd done lectures. I'd raised my kids, I had all these things. But all the time, I looked for somebody else to help me understand that what I had written or what I had said was okay. In other words, I'd write an article that was going to be published, and I'd ask my secretary to check it through and make sure that it was, or somebody. In other words, I was always second-guessing what I had written. And then I had a dream when I was 93.

And then I had a dream when I was 93. And in this dream, I woke up laughing and singing. And when I stepped into the dream, which I was sort of in and out of, I saw myself as nine-year-old Gladys in the jungles of North India, just peeking through the tent flap, making sure my brother wasn't out there because he would tattle on me and I'd be in trouble. Because in our family on the Sabbath day, we didn't say anything but hymns and bhajans.

Bhajans were Indian hymns. We weren't allowed to sing anything but those. And I thought it was a stupid rule. And I was going to break it. And I knew I was going to break it. And if Gordon, my younger brother, was there, he'd tattle on me and I'd be in trouble. He wasn't anywhere around. So as fast as I could, I ran to the mango tree and climbed clear

up to the top. And I'm sitting at the top of the mango tree and I'm singing. I mean I'm singing everything I could think of. The caterpillar song or another song. You know and I'm just having a great time. But every so often I look over my right shoulder and Jesus is up in the tree with me. And I look over my right shoulder and I say to him, Jesus loves the little children, right? And he's laughing and he says yes. So I go back to my singing and I'm still

going on. And then I get to second guessing myself again and I say, did he really say it was okay? So I look back over my shoulder and I say, I'm still a little child, right? He says yes. And so I go back to my singing. And I say, Jesus loves the little children, right? And he says yes.

So then I go back to my singing. That's when I question it again. But at that point, I woke up and I was singing and laughing at the same time and said to myself, for pity's sakes, if Jesus can accept you, why can't you accept yourself? yourself. And so after that, I stopped the business of having to second have somebody else check what everything I was doing. So, you know, you're never too old to learn. Yeah. If you give yourself a chance to keep growing. And when I was in my 40s, let's see, what was I doing? I was in full practice helping newborn birth babies, created the baby buggy program, and all of that. Raising my and just having a life that was so busy that I just had to do the next thing that came up. Would you say then, Gladys, that there are things you know now at the age of 103

that perhaps you didn't know at the age of, let's say, 97, five years ago? at the age of, let's say, 97, five years ago. Before we get back to this week's episode, I just wanted to let you know that I am doing my very first national UK theatre tour. I am planning a really special evening where I share how you can break free from the habits that are holding you back and make meaningful changes in your life that truly last. It is called the Thrive Tour. Be the architect of your health and happiness. So many people tell me that health feels really complicated, but it really doesn't need to be. In my live event, I'm going to simplify health and together we're going to learn the skill of happiness, the secrets to optimal health, how to break free from the habits that are holding you back in your

life. And I'm going to teach you how to make changes that actually last. Sound good? All you have to do is go to drchatterjee.com forward slash tour. I can't wait to see you there. This episode is also brought to you by the Three Question Journal, the journal that I designed and created in partnership with Intelligent Change. Now, journaling is something that I've been recommending to my patients for years. It can help improve sleep, lead to better decision making, and reduce symptoms of anxiety and depression. It's also been shown to decrease emotional stress, make it easier to turn new behaviours into long-term habits and improve our relationships. There are of course many different ways to journal and as with most things

it's important that you find the method that works best for you. One method that you may want to consider is the one that I outline in the three question journal. In it, you will find a really simple and structured way of answering the three most impactful questions I believe that we can all ask ourselves every morning and every evening. Answering these questions will take you less than five minutes, but the practice of answering them regularly will be transformative. Since the journal was published in January, I have received hundreds of messages from people telling me how much it has helped them and how much more in control of their lives they now feel. Now, if you already have a journal or you don't actually want to buy a journal, that is completely fine.

I go through in detail all of the questions within the three-question journal completely free on episode 413 of this podcast. But if you are keen to check it out, all you have to do is go to drchatterjee.com forward slash journal or click on the link in your podcast app. Absolutely. I tell you, I learn something every day. Something surprises me every day. surprises me every day. Yeah. I can't help but thinking your attitudes towards life is one of the main reasons why you seem to be thriving

past the age of 100. There are two, I mean, I was going to say two elderly ladies who live near to me that I know. I kind of struggle to say that in front of you at 103, because these ladies are probably in their late 70s, early 80s. So I don't know if they sound elderly to you, or they actually sound quite young to you. But what I've noticed about them, one is my piano teacher when I was a kid,

right? So she taught me and my brother how to play piano. She was teaching me when I was four years old. She is now teaching my children. She's teaching them singing. And she's full every night, you know, after kids finish school, she has got back to back kids that she is teaching. Now, I don't know her exact age, but I can't help but thinking the reason she's so fit and mobile and active and sharp, possibly into her late 70s, early 80s, is because she has a purpose. She loves teaching children how to sing, how to play piano piano and she's still actively engaging in that one of these other ladies that I know she hosts a performing speaking festival for children and last year when my kids were there I remember on the Saturday night when you know the kids who'd

won various events were actually all performing I was chatting to her and I think she's 84. And she said, I've been thinking about the order of tonight's show all day. I've been trying to think what will be the right balance for everything to give everyone a really special evening. And then I think about the longevity movement, or I should call it the anti-aging movement that I've already mentioned. And I've spoken to many of these experts on this podcast before, but I can't help thinking we're missing something massive. We're reducing it down to biochemical markers, blood sugar, you know, lipids, all kinds of things in blood blood tests which i'm not saying are not important but what's the point of perfect blood results if you have no reason to get up and live every day

you know that's it's got to be the most important thing i'm sure of it i have a really good friend i've known her for years and years. She's in her 90s. And the other day she said to me, oh, I get up in the morning and I think, not another day. And I almost cried because I get up in the morning and I think, wow, another day. You know, because it's, to me, it's my choice

as to whether I'm going to live this day or just drag myself through it. And I don't want to just drag myself through it. I've done enough of that. So it's a matter of choosing what it is that you want to do. And you know, the choice can be the littlest thing. Let me tell you another story, okay? I had this wonderful friend. He was a family friend for years and he ate dinner with us a lot of the time. And

so a bachelor, just a great guy. And we all, all the kids loved him. We loved him. And so then he moved into dementia and he wasn't he wasn't understanding anything. And so we found a lovely home where we could have him taken care of and all of that, and we did what we could. And one day, one week, I took a little plant over to him, and it was in a little pot, a little green plant. And when I came in, I said, now, James, here's a gift for you. This plant is going to love you. And as you love it, and let it have water, and take care of it, it's going to love you. And I don't know what I said,

but I talked like that to him. And he's just not paying any attention. He didn't, as far as I was concerned, looked like he wasn't understanding anything. But I went on through my little spiel and I put the little plant in the window and gave it some water. And then I left. And a week later, I came back and he met me at the door. And he says, magic, magic. And I said, what? And he says, look, box. And he goes over to the air conditioning box on the wall and he says, push this button, everything cool. Plant loves cool. Push this button, everything hot.

Plant doesn't like hot. And I thought, here we are. I didn't think he would be able to really understand anything that I had said to him. And maybe he didn't understand anything I said to him. But that plant had said to him. And maybe he didn't understand anything I said to him, but that plant got through to him. And when he took care of that plant, he understood something about what his life was still doing. And to me, that was just like, wow, James, I think this is just wonderful. Wow.

What does the word happiness mean to you, Gladys? Everything. Joy, happiness. It's a choice. You know, my name is Gladys. And when I was in college, my sorority sisters called me Happy Bottom. Glad-ass.

Anyway, I shouldn't have said this on air, but erase that thing. Oh, it's fine. There's that cheekiness throughout everything you say. I absolutely love it. Well, the point is that, you know, you take what you have and you use it in the way that serves you best and serves the people that you were working with best. And I love the whole process of working with the little people. I mean, they need us as older people and we need them.

The sweetest thing happened. My great-granddaughter was here visiting me from California, and I was sitting in my chair, and I didn't quite understand what was happening because I felt something weird on my neck. And I finally realized that she, as a little six-year-old, was just trying to feel my neck. And her little fingers were just going up. And I was so thrilled to have that actual connection where this little great grandchild is making contact with me in a loving way that has no words. Yeah. You've obviously navigated lots of transitional periods in your life, right?

You know, before you were a mother, you become a mother. Your career, you know, I know last time you came on my show, you shared the situation leading up to your divorce at the age of 70. So these transitional periods in our life, I think many people struggle to navigate. One thing I've seen a lot with patients over the years is empty nest syndrome, when let's say a mother has devoted her life to bringing up her children and then the kids leave home. I've seen many times people struggle with that to kind of successfully navigate that transition. You're someone who's been through many, many different transitions. Have you got any advice on how people can think about them?

Absolutely. What can you find that gives you, that allows you to go forward? It's like when I started my internship and I didn't even have a room, you know, I had to find a place. I found an x-ray table and a pillow. And I didn't reject what I could find. In other words, look for what's available to you and use it to your advantage. Make it become something that is useful to what you're doing at the time. Because hopefully what you're doing at the time is constantly changing and growing. And as it grows and changes, you have to find other ways of adapting to it, of living it, not just getting over it, but living it and understanding it. So therefore, is it fair to say that our purpose can continually change throughout our lives?

It should grow. You know, if we're growing, our purpose grows. We've put roots down. We've been like a tree. We've reached up. We've had blossoms and we've had our children and, you know, our fruit and so on. It's a matter of taking the...

You know, like right now, I could not in my farthest imagination imagine that I could be talking to you in England the way we are. I mean, isn't this awesome? It is. And talking to you really highlights how amazing this is. But it's something that we just take for granted now, that my children will take for granted, that you can, on a screen, video call a relative 4,000 or 5,000 miles away and talk to them in high definition. But even, I don't know, 25 years ago, that was kind of like science fiction. And obviously, when you were a child,

this must have seemed, if someone said that, you know, in 90 years time, Gladys, you're going to be able to talk to people all around the world through a screen in your kitchen, I don't know, would you have believed them? No, no, because we didn't even have a telephone. And as a matter of fact, when I was born in 1920, the only way that my dad could let my family in Cincinnati know that I was born was through a cablegram. So I have this cablegram upstairs. It's a sheet of paper that has

girl, well, Taylor. That was, that's what came across and they knew that I had been born. But the cablegram was a cable that went under the Atlantic and came up and every letter counted. So the dad paid quite a bit of money to get that cable to my grandmother in Cincinnati, you know, isn't that, isn't it awesome? Yeah. Man, it's amazing to reflect on that. Something else I wanted to ask you, Gladys, as a fellow physician,

you've obviously had many more years of experience than I have as a doctor, but I'm absolutely fascinated how the health landscape has changed throughout your career. So I myself, in just over two decades, I've seen quite marked changes in terms of the amount of type 2 diabetes, obesity, the amount of mental health problems we're seeing relative to when I started practicing is quite profound. You have got a much longer time frame to draw from.

What kind of things have you seen change over the years in medicine? Technology has changed, but I pray that the real reason we became physicians hasn't changed. In other words, well, let me tell you a story. My eldest son is a retired orthopedic surgeon. And when he came through Phoenix, he said to me, he was just on his way down to Del Rio, Texas, where he was going to start his practice of orthopedics. And he came through and he said, Mom, I'm real scared.

I'm going to have people's lives in my hands. I don't know that I can handle that. And I said to him, well, Carl, if you think that you're the one who does the healing, you have a right to be scared. But if you can understand that the patient that you're working with has within them a colleague for you, they have within them the actual healing physician who is the person who takes what you're doing and saying and working with and create within that patient the understanding of what it is that needs to be It's a living, cooperative relationship of colleagues because each patient that we have has that colleague within them

because you can do everything that you have been trained to do, and it's awesome. Believe me, if I have something broken, I don't want somebody who doesn't know what they're doing trying to fix it. But to have somebody who is a trained orthopedic surgeon there to do the fixing and then let the actual healing within me do the healing. within me do the healing? In other words, Carl could do the fixing of things, but then how do you make it work?

And the way it works is as the patient takes in and understands because what you've been doing is with love, reaching that person's inner being and sharing with them how you would see this working and it becomes a uh ongoing relationship that is based in love because in the in the long run love is the great healer. It's what really, really does the healing. Yeah, I love hearing your wisdom there. I think many of us leave medical school thinking that we've been given the tools we need to fix our patients. but actually what I've learned over the years is, just as you beautifully said, is that we don't really do the fixing.

We just help facilitate or create a space and an environment for the patients internally to find the resources they need to heal. I really do believe that more and more, particularly with these sort of more chronic conditions as opposed to the acute sort of leg break that you might be talking about, for example. Right, right. No, yes, I agree with you. You know, I think the heart of our job as physicians remains love, because in the long run, that's what really does the healing you know i've i've had patients that i've sent to a specialist some you know for one reason or another and the patient has come back

and said they didn't even listen to me and when they when i hear that from a patient about one of my colleagues, it makes me very sad. Because if we don't listen to what the patient is telling us, how in the world are we going to know what they really are doing and what's really happening within them? are doing and what's really happening within them. The third lesson you write about is all about love. Love is the most powerful medicine. And there's a very powerful bit at the start of that section, Gladys, that I'd like to read to you. There were plenty of patients whom I struggled to like, and I'm sure the same was true of my parents with the patients they treated. But if I can't love someone, I consider it my problem, not the other person's, so I'd find a way to love them anyway. So what's the difference then between

liking a patient and loving a patient? And why is loving that patient so important? Well, because we have to live experienced love in their home, it's very difficult for them to understand love in the outer world. is not likable is a person who has not been loved enough that they can really experience the process of loving. And so it's that kind of understanding. to a person who is really an ugly person in the way they act, just try not to get entangled with the ugliness of it and see if you can find something that is at least acceptable in that person and work with it if you're going to have to work with them. Otherwise, you bless them and let them go on about their work and doing what they need to do. Because each life, each day is each person's life choice,

and how they're going to grow it, and so if I can accept them to be who they are, and just respond to who I can see in them, maybe I'll be able to reach to them in a way that they'll be able to respond in a more loving way, but maybe they won't. Why is that important though? Why couldn't you just see a patient and go, you know what, I don't really like the way this patient is behaving, I don't like what they seem to stand for, but I'm going to be professional and do my job as a doctor. Why is it important that you do find parts of your being that can love that patient if you're going to truly help them? Because maybe that person never had somebody to love them. And maybe it's like when I was in active practice, I hugged everybody that came through my door.

Big husky men and little tiny children. For me, it was important to actually make that kind of contact. And so people knew I was doing that. It was something that I wanted to do, and I made the contact, and that's the way it was. So, and everybody can't do that. I'm not saying that's what every doctor should do. It's just I happen to be a mother figure to a lot of people and it was acceptable. So I didn't always do that. It was after I, well, I don't know when I started doing it. Anyway.

Yeah. It's interesting you say that of course that patient who is displaying behaviors that you perhaps aren't a huge fan of it's the compassionate approach isn't it to say well maybe that person has never experienced love they've never had it from their parents so of course they're going to come from a place of fear and maybe be attacking people and doing stuff because they never had that. So I guess the follow-up to that is how important is self-love, the ability to love and be compassionate to ourselves? It's essential. We need to recognize that we're as vulnerable as everybody else on the planet. And there are things that can hurt our feelings. And we can take those in and let them injure us. Or we can do it like my mother did and do a kuchparwani. A kuchparwani is it doesn't matter. Somebody says something nasty or does something, you know, you can take it in and say,

oh, that hurts me. In which case it does. It hurts you. Or you can let it hit your palm or your hand and just let that drop down and say it doesn't matter. It's not worth spending a lot of energy on. In that way, when somebody says something nice about you or to you or for you, you can take it in. But you don't have to take in everything that is said or done or created or even done in the politics of your life and suffer from it. You can just let it go. Why do you think, Gladys, that so many people these days are struggling with their mental health?

Oh, because it's very confusing. You know, it's hard for people to know what is a healthy thing to do or what isn't. That's why I think it's really important for those of us who understand some of these secrets of life to share them with each other. If we've learned something, we need to share it. And women particularly, when we learn things, we need to share them. That's why I went to Afghanistan to help the women. When I was 86, I went there. The death rate in maternity was higher in Afghanistan than any place in the world.

And my brother was working with future generations, and they weren't able to even get in to do anything about that. Because the men wouldn't let any man talk to their wives or talk to the women. So there was no way of finding out what was going on. finding out what was going on. So when I had the opportunity, my brother Carl gave me the opportunity to spend time with these women and I was able to do it. And those 32 women took what they learned

back to their homes and taught other women, and the maternal death rate improved within months. So that it was something that these 32 women were able to take back to their communities and teach their people, and things changed. and teach their people and things change. And if they don't share them, what are they going to do with them? You know, so it's,

my hope is that when you learn something that's a healing process and a loving process for others, you'll share it with others any way that you can. If you ever, Gladys, feel that you're having a bad day, what do you do? Well, I guess I identify it and figure out what I can do to correct it or live through it. But anyway, it's something that I will not dwell upon. If it's, you know, if I had indigestion all night and woke up with not feeling good, I better do something about that and get over it. But the same thing with whatever it is that's causing me to think that life isn't quite where it should be right now.

Then I'll do something to try and understand why. And if in any way I can put some humor into it, I will. Yeah. I'm interested, Gladys, personally, but also professionally as a doctor, what are some of your favorite health promoting practices? I don't know, things like exercise, meditation, journaling, gratitude, whatever it might be. Like in your own life, are there things that you have found to be really helpful? And also, what are the things that you've found to be helpful with your patients over the years? Well, I think a diet is important. I think it's Well, I think a diet is important. I think it's important to understand the kind of diet that you can have where you are. I can't tell people what they should eat. I don't know where they are, where they live. I don foods that are healthy and support your health.

And if you eat those foods as fresh as possible and as, you know, clean as possible and all of that, we have really great food available to us in all sorts of ways. If that's what we're looking for, we'll find it and do that. And then make sure you have plenty of water. You know, get the exercise that you need. I try to use my walker and walk around here all that I can. all that I can and it keeps my body moving and and active and um I also uh knit because I have hands that have to keep working and so I knit little washcloths that I give away. And, you know, it's find something that you can do. I mean, who wants a washcloth? You know, I mean, that's a stupid thing, except they're kind of pretty and people like them.

And so I keep on doing them. And you find something that you can do, that you can continue to do, and that people can reach for. I try to get eight hours of sleep at night, and I breathe fresh air. air and and uh i'm not going anyplace in these days because first place i can't i'm i'm a liability i trip over things and then i fall and break something and that's not good so it's uh but but i can see with the zoom stuff i can see things and do things, you know? Yeah. So you find something that you can do that isn't a jeopardy to your body. I'm not allowed, my kids won't let me ride my tricycle anymore because the last time my tricycle threw me and I broke three ribs

so but they're all healed now so I love how you said that your tricycle threw you the tricycle did it well you know I turned a corner with the tricycle And it was like a bucky horse just threw me over onto my side. Is that the tricycle you got for your 102nd birthday? Uh-huh, yeah. That one? Yeah, it's out on my porch. And its name is Bluebell. And it knows that it was a bad bluebell because it threw me.

Oh, it's an amazing vision that you, I've seen it online that you got that red tricycle for your 102nd birthday. And I think it says a lot about you and your character and the playfulness and the humor within you and that sort of can-do attitude. You mentioned earlier that you are legally blind I know when we spoke a year ago you said something very powerful that you may be losing your eyesight but there's

nothing wrong with your insights right which I thought was absolutely such a beautiful way of looking at it from what I understand your vision has continued to decline. What has that taught you? You know, one of the key senses that we attach a lot of value to is our vision. You've lost some, a lot of your vision. What has the process of losing it taught you about a good life? Well, you know, I can listen to audiobooks now. I would never have listened to an audiobook when I could read it.

But when I can't read, I can listen to an audiobook. And so there are ways to compensate and fix it for ourselves any way that we can and then of course I have this wonderful son of mine who it helps me with all things that I can't read and write and we kind of like each other you know So I don't think he objects to doing the things he's here to do with me. It's because it's something that has to be done. And we love each other and work together. Do you still have a daily step goal? I think in the past you said you tried to get 3,800 steps a day. Has that now changed or are you still tracking that?

It's not as much. It's more like a thousand steps. But you're still moving, right? And that secret, of course, your second secret in your book is that all life needs to move. Yes. Yes, I've got this walker. His name is Skywalker. And he and I travel all around this property.

And, you know, it's a good thing. Are there days where you don't feel like moving, but you push through anyway? Oh, yeah. And some days I don't move. Some days it's just, there's just, it's just too hard. So I finally was able to understand that to take a rest is doing something. Because, you know, I used to think if I had to take a rest, I was wasting time. But then I realized while I was working with patients, that if I told a patient to go home and take a rest,

patients that if I told a patient to go home and take a rest that was telling them to do something not to not do something and so I figured well I guess I better listen to what I'm saying so if I'm saying to myself yeah you need to take a rest I I take a rest. Yeah. Gladys, I think what you're doing is absolutely incredible. You, at the age of 100, started to write this book, which I think is inspiring for all of us. It's inspiring for anyone who thinks that life has passed them by and that it's too late now to make a change. You have shown that repeatedly in this conversation, in our first

conversation together. And you're also living what you preach. You said to me that it's important that if we have learned the secrets to a good life, it's on us. It's our obligation to share that with the world around us. And you are doing that beautifully with all the interviews you're giving and with the book that you've written. Right the end now of our conversation gladys i wanted to ask you this when you are no longer here in this world what is the most important message or idea that you would like to leave behind? That love is a great healer. And that everything that I have loved and touched,

that loving thought and feeling and essence goes with it. So it's a matter of understanding that when something has been created and is a living thing, it needs to be loved. We were looking for how we can reach with love to touch other living things and even the inanimate things need to be touched with love. I mean, I love all the stuff that's in my house here. And, you know, it's still something that is carrying a message in its own form that other people can understand. It's all about love. Gladys, I've loved my conversation with you.

Thank you for all the work you're doing and thank you for coming back on the show. Oh, thank you. It's been a joy. Really hope you enjoyed that conversation. Do think about one thing that you can take away and apply into your own life. And also have a think about one thing from this conversation that you can teach to somebody else. Remember, when you teach someone, it not only helps them, it also helps you learn and retain the information. Now, before you go, just wanted to let you know about Friday Five. It's my free weekly email containing five simple ideas to improve your health and happiness. In that email, I share exclusive insights that I do not share anywhere else,

including health advice, how to manage your time better, interesting articles or videos that I'd be consuming, and quotes that have caused me to stop and reflect. And I have to say, in a world of endless emails, it really is delightful that many of you tell me it is one of the only weekly emails that you actively look forward to receiving. So if that sounds like something you would like to receive each and every Friday, you can sign up for free at drchatterjee.com forward slash Friday Five. Now, if you are new to my podcast, you may be interested to know that I have written five books that have been bestsellers all over the world, covering all kinds of different topics, happiness, food, stress, sleep, behavior change and movement,

weight loss, and so much more. So please do take a moment to check them out. They are all available as paperbacks, eBooks, and as audio books, which I am narrating. If you enjoyed today's episode, it is always appreciated if you can take a moment

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Because when you feel better, you live more. Thank you.