Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - How to Build Inner Strength, Stay Grounded and Keep Going Through Life’s Challenges with Sifan Hassan #584

Episode Date: October 7, 2025

It’s easy to be inspired by success, but the real lessons often lie in what it took to get there. After all, true strength isn’t just physical; it’s found in how we face change, challenge and the unknown. In this episode of my Feel Better, Live More podcast, I sit down with one of the most extraordinary athletes of our time, Sifan Hassan. Sifan is a Dutch middle- and long-distance runner, celebrated for her versatility and achievements in athletics. Born in Ethiopia and raised in the Netherlands as a refugee, she is known for competing at the highest level in a wide range of distances, including the 1500m, 5000m, 10,000m, and the marathon. She is a two-time World Champion, an Olympic medallist, and holds multiple European Championship titles. Her journey from refugee to Olympic and World Champion has captivated the world, not just for what she’s achieved, but for how she approaches life. Sifan’s story is one of courage, faith, and relentless curiosity. In this wonderful conversation, we explore: How growing up in Ethiopia and later seeking asylum in the Netherlands shaped Sifan’s inner strength, perspective and deep appreciation for opportunity The role running played in navigating life in a new country, and how it offered focus, purpose and belonging Why failure, fear and self-doubt have been central to her journey, and how she’s learned to embrace them as essential parts of growth and performance How Sifan continues to find joy in running, despite the pressures of elite sport, and why staying curious matters more to her than winning What her training now looks like behind the scenes - including the shifts she’s made to prioritise recovery, longevity and mental balance Why she sees rest, sleep and routine as forms of discipline, and how simplicity keeps her grounded What she’s come to understand about identity, letting go of perfection, and finding peace with who she is, beyond the medals You don’t need to be an athlete to connect with Sifan’s story; it speaks to something deeply human in all of us. In a world that often celebrates outcomes, this conversation invites us to embrace the process of becoming, adapting, and learning. Sifan’s perspective is a beautiful example of what it means to stay rooted in who we are, even when life takes us far from where we began. I hope you enjoy listening. Support the podcast and enjoy Ad-Free episodes. Try FREE for 7 days on Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/feelbetterlivemore. For other podcast platforms go to https://fblm.supercast.com.   Thanks to our sponsors: https://drinkag1.com/livemore https://www.boncharge.com/livemore https://join.whoop.com/livemore   Show notes https://drchatterjee.com/584   DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or qualified healthcare provider. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

I say, actually, you're greater because of failure. The more you try, the more you fail, the more you succeed because you try. Imagine if you try only one, two times, you may win one, two times. But if I try 10 times, I fail five times, I win five times. Who's the winner? I'm winner. I win more than you. So it's like this. Hey guys, how you doing? I hope you're having a good week so far. My name is Dr. Rongan Chatterjee.

and this is my podcast, Feel Better, Live More. It's so easy to be inspired by success, but the real lessons often lie in what it took to get there. After all, true strength is not just physical, it's found in how we deal with change, manage adversity and embrace the unknown. This week, I sit down with one of the most extraordinary athletes of our time, Sifan. Hassan. Born in Ethiopia and raised in the Netherlands as a refugee, she has gone on to become a two-time world champion, an Olympic medalist, and the holder of multiple European championship titles. Her journey from refugee to Olympic and world champion has captivated the world, and I would say that Saffan is celebrated not only for her versatility and achievements,

but also for her spirit and the inspiring way in which she approaches life. In our conversation, we explore how growing up in Ethiopia and later seeking asylum in the Netherlands shaped her inner strength and outlook, the role that running has played in navigating life in a new country, and how it offered her focus, purpose and belonging. Why failure, fear and self-doubts have been central to her journey and how she's learned to embrace them as essential parts of growth and performance. How

she continues to find joy in running despite the pressures of elite sports. Why staying curious matters more to her than winning. Why she sees rest, sleep and routine as forms of discipline that keep her grounded

and how she has managed to let go off perfection and find peace with who she is. You simply do not need to be an athlete to connect with Sifan's story. It's a story of courage, faith, and relentless curiosity, and her outlook on life is a beautiful example of what it means to stay rooted in who we are, even when life takes us far from where we began. You're someone who has taken the running world by storm over the past few years.

And you must have experienced that there is a real outpouring of love for you all over the world. Why do you think that is? I think because everybody has seen people do just the same things for me. When I'm running a kind of mix, I go up and down, sometimes around 50, 100-meter marathon. And people think they always thought, oh, when an athlete move to the marathon, it is harder to back to the track. They have never done. but I'm just very curious. I was like, okay, what if I did this?

What if I do? So I think maybe because I run a marathon and go back to track and then I go run a marathon and go back to the track. The first times, I think, when the people shocked in London Marathon, 2003, when I stopped, it's the race. And I went to race. Then I did, after two months, I did some track race. And there was a, oh, that's possible.

I did World Shopping Ship after three months, then I get silver, I think silver, $500,000 or something. Yeah. And then after six weeks, I did Chicago Marathon, and then I get around the fastest second time ever. And maybe that's why people think it's like something crazy. Yeah, I think there's a couple of things people really like about you. Certainly speaking from my own experience, you run with a real, carefree joy, right? You smile a lot and it's just a beautiful smile from the inside of you that I think people are not used to seeing when athletes compete. So I think that's one reason, this curiosity,

this joy. I think also this idea that you constantly move out of your comfort zone. You're not afraid to fail at something. You're not afraid to say, yeah, you know what? I know most athletes don't do this, but I'm going to go from the 5K to the marathon. I think that's also something that people really admire and respect about you. Where do you think that comes from? It could be experience, you know, so I think this could be something also inside just because I was, I come as a young lady to Netherlands and that's also just kind of out of comfort as well.

And then I was like, I think around the age. 20, something, I have to take step my life for a big picture. I was taught 2016, the years of Rio, I get injured before the race. Like, I thought I'm not even going to go Rio. And after that, I was really depressed. I was so angry. And I even heard it running. I used to lock the door and not talk to anyone.

I thought, you know, this is not healthy. And I'm also Muslim. And according to us, like, when something. something happened to you, you should be grateful. You should say, oh, I'm healthy, I have health, this, this. You always look the people down to you. You can't complain too much about life. So I thought, oh, it is also against my religion.

That's not good. I say to myself, oh, I'm going to stop running. I think I were like, I don't know, I was like 24 or something. I decided to go a holiday by myself like for a month. I go Morocco. I go somewhere else. And after that, oh, I want to run. But when I want to run, I really want to change.

myself. Whether what has happened, I just have fun. I just want to see it. And then I decide to also go to America. Already build a friendship in Netherlands. I have good friend. I have already home, family, everything there. And I decide to, oh, I'm going to go to America. So I talk to everybody. Many people say actually, look, see if you are already in Diamond Link, top number one or number two, every race, even 800, 50, 100, 5 kilometers. Whatever you race, you are top three. If you go more from this coach, what if you don't succeed? So I have to decide. I have to think, oh, if this thing, that's a success, I'm going to have filler.

So I look at myself, okay, when I go, like, later, when I'm 55 years, do I go back, look it, and this thing is no good to do? Or I should done this? I look at us like, okay, what if I don't get success? But still my brain wants to try that, you know? when I don't regret later. Still, it doesn't matter, I did everything. So the hardest moment, when I'm already your success,

you think, oh, this is the way. I'm always number three, number two, sometimes winning. But I just thought, okay, even if I go in, I will take some step to go to US. Yeah, this is so interesting because many people play it safe in life, don't they? They get a, let's say, a degree of success. I'm not talking about athletics and running now,

about anything. They get to a degree of success, and then they stay locked where they are. They don't want to push themselves beyond that. What if they lose what they've got? Yeah, you get to my hunting. Yeah, and that's the thing I, you know, when I listen to you talk and hear your words, it very much comes across that you're someone who, as you said, you don't want regrets. You'd rather take a risk and fail than not having taken the risk.

at all, right? Exactly. Yeah. You get my point. So that is, I think, even I was thinking my some half of my brain thought I'm going to lose and no, never win or never number three or don't even make to Olympia. But still my brain, no, just tried it. And you, when you get older, you say, oh, I did everything, you know, to be the best runner to improve myself. So when I make that decision, I can't tell you I become totally different because that's the most hardest. You're already having something. You have good contract to the shoe company. I could provide for myself.

I run world championship. I already in safe place, but I have to move out of discomfort. Push myself. No, no one was helping me. Many people are like, no, that's not a good idea. How is possible you're going to do that? Yeah. People say this a lot, don't they?

They unintentionally put us down and keep us where we are, right? Oh, it's not a good idea. It's really interesting. there's a lot of non-runners who listen to this podcast, okay? And just to put it in context, for people who are not familiar with running, in 2023, you ran the London Marathon, one of the premier marathon races on the planet.

That was your very first marathon, and you ended up winning it. Okay, so I don't know if that has ever been done before, someone in their first race. What was also incredible is during that race you were written off by the experts

on many occasions. I don't know if you've seen a rerun and heard what the commentators were saying because you stopped at various times, right? To stretch, you know? And, you know, I've watched a rerun and some of these very, very experienced commentators actually said

somebody should take her off the course She's going to damage herself. Yet you came from nowhere to not only catch up with the lead pack. You then want to won the race, right? So talk us through that race. Did you think about pulling out? When you were pulling up at the side and stretching your hamstring and the leaders are getting further ahead, what went through your minds?

So as a pro athlete, when you want to run marathon, you don't go to major marathon, big marathon. Like lander, you don't even think it. Oh, you warm up in other races first. race is you always do the safe part. You go some, just a small marathon, and you just see how good you are. Then you're good. But to me, as immediately, when I say I'm going to run marathon, I was like, I'm going to do London. They was like, oh, London is too risky because they were going a lot of big people. Like, it's better you run some small. I say, no, I want to do London. Then after, when you go home, you're like, is that a smart idea? No. Your brain is

like, I think that's stupid. So I had really for three months, just even the night, that's not good idea, it's better listening, you know, listen to the people around you. You're like, again, no, I want to do it. So when the race happened, and I just say, see, oh, my God, everybody telling me I didn't listen, this is going to happen. I would like even asking God, I just want to go something like 25K,000, 28K,

so I just say, oh, I have experience, you know. Hold on. So when you were stretching, And it looked to everyone that you were injured. In your head, you were saying, I knew this would happen. Everyone told me not to race. So how did you go from that to winning? I kind of stretched as like, just let me run just 2K, 3K more.

And I was like, the pain, it didn't increase. It did not increase. It did increase. Then I started running. It is shock. Then I was like, the pain was like, staying there. I thought, okay, I was like, actually, okay, I'm going to do. When I was 30, like around 28 or something, I was already grateful.

I say, I don't care what happened, even if I stopped also. I have experience. I was like, I have experience. So when you're at 28K and the race for people who don't know is 42K, you're just going, okay, this is good. I've got the experience. I run 28K at a major marathon. Doesn't matter what happens.

I'm still learning about this new discipline. Yeah. Okay, then what happens? Then I was like, I was really already happy. This is the experience. time I'm going to be better. I was running. Then I think I was, I didn't know how to drink because I have Ramadan, almost I didn't drink. I don't know. I didn't practice. I almost get hit by bus when I got up the degree. When I saw the athlete is taking the drink. I read and I was

like, okay, how much I have to drink? I was like, so you're watching the other top athletes. Yeah. Exactly. And I was, and at 35, I don't know for some reason, I cut the group. I was already celebrating. People say, oh, she's going to win. I didn't care. I was celebrating. I was like, I'm so happy. I was with this elite athlete who's the greatest marathon runner ever. I was so grateful. I think one thing in our life also, being grateful is actually what make you lead to success. I was so grateful and I was cheering. And my energy actually increased by just, you know, somebody when you win, you already have for a couple hours high energy. I was already celebrating, I was celebrating.

So that was at 38K. So you're feeling grateful. The gratitude is giving you more energy. You're with some of the top runners of all time. So there's 4K left. What goes on between 38 and 42 that means you end up getting the gold? So I was running with them. I was just happy without number four, number three.

I didn't fail. The end was like, I know I have kick, but the kick become really, I was so powerful. I was sprinted like crazy. I was like, couldn't believe I like, is I never in magic? I will go to London Marathon as my first marathon and I'm going to win.

I was like, I won London Marathon. The Marathon I watched the TV. I was like really, I couldn't believe. I was a sprint. I was like, I win. I won in London Marathon. But you know, it's funny, when you were sprinting, and I think this goes back to what people love about you,

there was a playfulness with you. your sprint, okay? It certainly to me, and I'm not a running coach, it wasn't an intense focus, right? I practice this, now I've got to run, I've got 100 meters to go. It was almost this disbelief, this kind of happiness, this, I don't know, there was a real freedom I felt watching you. And I don't know, it keeps going back to the same point, which is how many of us listen to the voices around us that maybe our parents, maybe our work colleagues,

maybe our boss, maybe our friends, they're not trying to keep us down. They're trying to help us. Yeah, people were trying to help. You say, hey,

don't go to London Marathon. It's risky. Yeah. But, Cavan, even that word risky is interesting to me. I don't know what your take is, but it's only risky,

I guess, if the goal is winning. Yeah. If the goal is just to get experience, Well, it's not risky, right? Yeah. So it depends what your definition of success is. So what do you say is right?

So 2019, I become the best 500 meters, 5K and 10,000 meters right now. So your people around you or your coach always choose the same. I was in three events. So I have to cancel one because they're 50 hundred meters, 5,000 meters, just 13 minutes apart. So they have 5,000 meters and the 10 minutes apart. thousand meters runner the same athlete. So if you win 10,000 meter, because you're going to compete the same athlete, you're going to, you don't know what to happen, but you're going to guarantee by almost 99% you're going to win 5,000 meters also. So I told my coach is like,

okay, I'm so grateful you win 10,000 meters, so you're going to do 5,000 meters because the people you go, the race it, the same people, you're already easy win the hour, you're going to win. You're going to become like more farrah. I told him, no, I want to do 50 hundred meters. He's like, I argue with him almost two days. Suddenly, he's like, this is risky, 50 hundred meters, a fresh athlete. You already run 10,000 meters, your leg style. In 50 hundred meters also tactic, you could end up becoming number five.

It's tactic race. I told him, it's life all about gold. He's like, no, I say to him, let me do that and what I love. I just want to do experience. When you said, is life just about gold, my whole body lit up, that went straight to my heart, I promise you, because this is something I think about all the time. You know, how are we defining success, right? You know, the people around you, is that, yeah, we want you to win.

So the best chance of winning is to do 10,000, 5,000. If you do 1,500, you may not win. But what if winning isn't the goal? Exactly. What have experienced is the gold. You know, life is not just about gold. Yeah, I remember he couldn't answer that. He let me do.

And luckily I get a weighted, I won. But that things really help me because that's the far thing. Then I come to Tokyo years. I was the best shape of my life. So I choose the two, three events. And then that's like crazy thing. And then I, like, from 2019, I was thinking I'm going to do three events. I'm training with myself.

But in my brain, that's crazy. But if you lose everything. So then COVID come, cancel. Imagine I have to care that thing. Training for 2021. When 2021 come, 2020, 2021 come, I told I'm going to do three events. I can't tell you how many people told me you're going to go in. pity hand, even the people who's like really close to me, no, she's not going to win

this, she's not going to win this, but she's going to win this. Even the person, I tell the, as a secretary, like, I don't think so she's going to get in TV. I don't think she's going to get this. And even the one, call me, no, you're going to go in pity hand. That's crazy. That's stupid. This is whatever. Do you feel any pressure? What I mean by that is you're a professional athlete, okay? So maybe your sponsors, right? presumably they're wanting you to be getting medals and being photographed with the gold medal or the silver or the bronze, whatever, when everyone around you is saying no,

does that make you even more determined to follow your hearts? Or is that there anyway? Or when the people are saying no around you, are you quite stubborn where you go, right, you're saying no? I'm going to show you by saying yes. It's what my heart want Even if you tell me It's this or that

But still if I can be also flexible I can say oh that's maybe no smart But it's like always something inside me Like no do do do I want to experience I only see what is possible This is actually take A power over me What inside me I want

I'm very determined When I want it When I want it Not when the people tell me you can't do it Sometimes I say okay Whatever whatever you say I don't care and I just walk away. But if I believe it, I don't care how many voice shout.

Were you always like that, even as a little girl growing up in Ethiopia? I was very curious. I was very hard for my mom. And luckily, I think it is good. I was growing up in Ethiopia because in Ethiopia, the different I see in Ethiopia in the Netherlands, the children are different in Ethiopia. you have a baby, the baby's two, three years, the baby do her own things, you know.

But in Netherlands, they do every time for children. And in Japan, you're already more independent. As a child, you do your own things. But it's also come because I have in my life, as a younger girl, I have a lot of experience around the world. I have lived in Africa as younger. I lived in Netherlands and I go to America. So I become more open-minded.

Before, I was scared. My curiosity, I keep it to myself. I let my curiosity go outside. Yeah. You mentioned the word gratitude a lot in this conversation. You mentioned in the 2023 London Marathon, your first marathon that you ended up winning when you were back on the track after stretching your legs. You just felt grateful that you were able to continue and still be in this incredible race. You also said before that, though, that I think in 2016, you were feeling quite angry and frustrated with performances, right? And you had to remind yourself that your religion teaches you that it's important to be grateful. So I'm interested what happened because it sounds like there's been quite a profound shift in your psychology with how you approach these things.

In 2016, anger and frustration, 2023, 2024, 2025, a lot more relaxed and grateful and grateful. a lot more relaxed and grateful for what you get to do. Tell me about that change. So when I want to, as I grew up, I told me when I was a child, my family is Muslim, but they really don't know that much about religion. So when I was decided to go to America, I was like, actually, why I'm Muslim? I have to learn about it, you know. I started deep reading it and I learned a lot.

And that when I was like, actually to me, the Islam become the way of life, not only just a religion, the way of life. Because I come as a younger girl, even in Netherlands. I don't know how to handle when I'm happy. I don't know how to live life when I'm sad. I was coming to Netherlands by myself. So I have to learn from something. So that teaches me, okay, this is the way you live.

This is the way you handle. When you're angry, this is. I learned a lot from the reality. religion of Muslim. I'm also, you know, how I'm curious. I'm like in Netherlands, free. You can do drug and I had a lot of also bad friends. So I could end up doing bad things, but luckily because of their religion, I ended up actually good. Yeah. So for you, it sounds like your religion gave you a framework for how to live. Thank you. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Be grateful, right? Be appreciative of what you have. You know, do this. Don't do

that or whatever it might be. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. Can you, I mean, I don't know how much you're prepared to share, but you were born in Ethiopia, right? Yeah. Yeah. You know, how was your early childhood in Ethiopia? It was really beautiful. So you grow up, you don't have car. You just work for yourself and you run to day school. It's just like playing around. To me, it's just one, as a child, that's one of you dream. When you're a child, you don't care about gold house, gold car, a goalie thing. It's like, oh, you fray, you play, you do barefoot. I'll grow up, running barefoot to dar and to hear. It's just a beautiful. As a child, I really enjoy my life. But as you grow up, some of Africa countries, it is very, a lot of problems.

Like just my nature and I'm very, why this, why that? In Africa, sometimes you can't say why this, what, that. You have to keep going. As a girl or as a human being? As a human being, it's very hard, actually. Especially with politics back then, you have to just start to live the way it is. But as a human being, even as a care, I ask everything. And actually, Dutch feed me, because in Netherlands, they ask everything. They ask everything. And they're very direct also.

Okay, so he had a happy childhood running around, barefoot running, asking questions until you weren't able to. You went to school there. And when you left Ethiopia for the Netherlands at the age of 15, was it just you by yourself? I left somebody, but it's like I don't really have, you know, as young, you really need your mom, your dad who guide you to how to live life. I didn't have that one. But actually, I have a lot of mentor in Netherlands, but it is just the culture, the life is totally different. It's totally opposite.

Did you choose the Netherlands? Is that just one of the options? No. It just happened. Really? Really? For many of us who have grown up and live in the West, we possibly can't even fathom what it is like at the age of 14 or 15 to have to leave our family and our country to go thousands

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It is just all the politics. I can't go forever, I think it takes a look. But it's just like, so back then in Ethiopia, you like many people was I think it's almost could be like from one president to other person some president ruled for 30 years

some people for five years so it's almost gone gone start from my grandpa my grandfather my father and just always the politics I think now it's getting better but still I think some area they have

also three years ago and they have war they have to live so every time just go around one group, leave, the other group leave, the other. This is just, just freaking politics in Africa. And so when you left, you arrive in the Netherlands. What were those first few days like? In Ethiopia, every door is open. Every door is open.

Every door is open. There's a lot of community. The children play together. And so the door is closed. Like, why the door is close here? Right. Like, for me, also, this is the hard. these things. Like, that's the hardest thing. And I'm also very outdoor person. So most of the time

you stay inside and, you know, wichi, move, whatever. I was like, why? That's the hardest thing. I really, I came for two years. I really don't want to stay in Netherlands. I just was like, no, though, it's not my things. But luckily, I become independent. I have to think about my life. I was becoming a student. I have to focus. I was like, I'm fine. And I think I adapted to the culture also after that very fast. They are very direct and very open-minded. That's what I am very fitted in. Yeah.

I've read that you call yourself a very proud Dutch citizen. Yes. How do you think about nationality? You grew up in Ethiopia, your family are Ethiopian, yet you now reside in the Netherlands and you know, it's interesting to me. And the reason I ask also is because I'm, you know, not in the same. way as you at all. But, you know, my parents were immigrants from India to the UK in the 1960s and 1970s. So, you know, growing up, I have an Indian background at home. And then in

the day I'm at school, so there's kind of Indian values at home, Western values at school. So I've thought a lot about, you know, who am I? Am I British? Am I Indian? You know, why does it even matter? Which is what I think these days. But how do you think about nationality? I think to me also, I come young enough to say I'm Netherlands. I know about Ethiopia also. So I was also very confused because when I go back to home a couple years ago, when they talk about Netherlands, I get infestim, I get angry. When somebody also says about Ethiopia, I'll get whatever. So suddenly I become like, okay, I'm just both.

Even because now I feel even, so I go to America, so I even feel, oh, I know American people. I lived seven years almost, no, six years. So I think if people go, can you change? Like back then to 10 years, I say 10 years ago, I don't want that. But now if I go back, that's the amazing thing happened to me. So it's good things that people know about one place and then come to a red place and come to that place. So now it's for me like, why it's like, why it doesn't have to be Ethiopia, why it matters, why I have to be Netherlands, like kind of both. I'm very proud to be Africa

I'm very proud to be European like I just it's just deep inside like I think you know that yeah I love hearing that perspective because I think nationality is a thing that people get so attached to

and I mean the more I think about these things I think the more attachments we have the more trapped we become exactly you know we're all part of the human race yes right we're all trying to get on in the world, you know, achieve our goals, lift people up around us. And I think these

labels sometimes become really quite limiting for us. And, you know, it's interesting the London Marathon 2025 was probably just over 24 hours ago when it finished. And the London Marathon Instagram page and your page posted a beautiful video of you having finished. And I think one of your Dutch counterparts was still coming in and you were so excited and you were smiling and you were cheering and it was really nice to see that sort of camaraderie? Yeah, like I will tell you the secret I never tell anyone yet. I had some breathing problem. I just figured out because yesterday the highest polar allergy.

So I couldn't catch up. My brain's like, you can't. Oh, you were feeding the pollen yesterday? Yeah, yes. So I didn't know that I just hear it was high pollen, but I couldn't breathe. So the secret I want to tell you I was already number three I know I don't catch

but in my brain oh you're not going to catch I say at least you're going to enjoy what is going to happen to the man like immediately I finish I'm like oh I have to watch the man So what's the ending of the men's race Well I'm racing like a couple

five or six kilometers left I know I couldn't catch them the number one The leaders so I was telling my brother I was like okay At least you're going to enjoy Who's going to win at the man you know the man they have this year the strongest field ever. I was even curious about how Abdinagir going

to race. I know he's training. He's really good hip. I was curious about Elliot. I was curious about Cipilemo. So I was like, I was even telling a day before, I wish I'd just sit down and watch my race. Yeah, it's fascinating hearing that. I mean, I've got so many questions about that race. But one of the things you said before about your first marathon in 2023 when you didn't, because it was Ramadan beforehand, you hadn't trained to know how much fluid should I take, at which distance should I take it. Things that most marathon runners are practicing and they're getting dialed in completely. And then you weren't taking a drink, right? And then yesterday in the men's race, of course, at that, I think that 35 kilometre drink station, that's when the whole

race changed. When the winner didn't take a drink, everyone else takes a drink. And And he stretches this big gap. Ah, yeah. That's what happened. The lady did it to me that too. Really? At the 20, they take drink. They didn't take the stretch me out.

Yeah. Isn't that interesting? It's very interesting. Yeah, you need the fuel actually. That's how we believe as scientifically. They say you have to have drink at the time. Yeah, but again, it's these, again, I'm not saying we don't need the fuel. But it's interesting that the guy who won the mens re's estate didn't take the fuel.

but instead he took the opportunity to create a psychological advantage. And then I think, well, maybe in 2023, one of the reasons you ran is because maybe you didn't drink. Yeah. Maybe that's a good thing. That's true. But also, I think the biggest, wherever you brain believes, if you are society, you will do it. I think the guys just take, okay, I take this opportunity. I'm going to destroy them.

That's what I did, I think. Can you explain to me because I'm not an elite. athlete like you, the importance of that psychology, right? So at a drink station, let's say you're all running together in a group, right? And let's say someone does make a break and they get ahead. What is that like for an athlete? Like if suddenly someone you were running with, suddenly you find is quite far ahead of you in just a few moments. What does it do to you psychologically? Because the commentators kept mentioning you because you won London,

you're the Olympic gold medalist from last year's marathon. And when they started to break away, your name kept coming up. The commentators kept saying they're worried about Sifan's kick. So they're going to keep checking to make sure they've got clear of Sifan. They don't want to risk being with her at the end. Now, again, that's the commentator. I don't know if that's true from the athletes.

But obviously, because of your amazing kick in 2023 and at the Olympics last year, where there was all kinds of stuff going on at the end, right? How much does that psychology play into when you're actually racing? It's really play bigger. So it's a big role. Big one. So because of what I did in London, I was in Paris. And I was feeling so good at 20K.

20K. Yeah, 20K. So halfway through? Yeah, halfway. I was feeling good. And I was like, I saw that struggling going downhill. I say, can I break them here? And I try to pass them.

And they speak the language, Ethiopian. And I hear the language. I understand. They're like, what she's doing. The other guy said, I think she's going to go. And I was like, no, I'm not going to go. I come back. Oh, so you heard them talking about you.

Yeah, they were talking about me. I was like, oh, okay, these people are just. just focus on me. So I saw all of them look at me, like they are only racing with me. So I said, my son, no, go back. I just go back. Let me just be safe. Let me play the safe part.

That's interesting. So do you think that's because you came from nowhere in 2020? Not from nowhere, to be clear. Obviously, you're an elite athlete. But in terms of the marathon, because you hadn't done that before and you win your first race, like everyone's thinking, oh, my God, we have to watch her. I have seen. lot of major athletes who did amazing on the track and then the marathon there's

totally because the energy system is totally different so I come from nowhere it's not only the way I win in London was unusual also so you can't say a person stretch, stop, walk and miss almost drink and then go win so that's give you oh this even somebody come to me they was like oh they want to beat you they're like in Tokyo I rise before Paris they say oh they want to But the coach said we're mostly we're not focused on Tokyo. We are going to beat her in Paris. So even the London one marathon, because the way I win is totally different.

It makes like I was the greatest marathon runner for many athletes in the head. So when you heard them talking about you, so this is, I didn't know any of this. This is interesting. So you're in the 2024 Olympic marathon. And again, just for the non-runners, you did something remarkable in that Olympics. You competed in the 5K, the 10K, and then the marathon, right? And I remember because I remember this so well. I had just gone on a family holiday with my wife and children to Kenya for four weeks.

And we had just come back and we were watching the Olympics on television. And me, my son and my daughter watch your marathon race. And we were talking about, we just round the TV thinking, she must be knackered today. She must be exhausted because she's just on the 5K and the 10K. who's going to do a marathon after already being tired? And what was the time span between the 5K, the 10K and the marathon? So the time is where it was like the 5K was two day and then at the 10K.

Then the 5K is two times. I raise two times. The heat. Yeah, then 2 5Ks. Yeah, 2 5K. And then I raised the 10,000 and then I have 36. 36 hours before the marathon, a day and a day and a half. Yeah, but for me, it wasn't really at six hours because it's less because I have

doping control there. I have the mix zone, interview. It takes like two hours. All the interviews afterwards. And then I have the open control. I have like 2 a.m. to my hotel. Oh, so you get to your hotel at 2 a.m. So you're already late.

You're not going to get enough sleep. No way. And I was like lying down. And I also like you have also, when you race as a little athlete, we have really high. Adrenaline. Adrenaline. Yeah, you've just been racing, right? Yeah, exactly.

You can't sleep. So the things I had just a night before the marathon, and I go early on 9 p.m. to go sleep, but my body doesn't want to sleep because I always come later for medalist ceremony. Like I couldn't sleep until 1 a.m. or something, and by 4 a.m. I have to wake up. I mean, it just makes it even more remarkable that you got Olympic gold after all of this. But again, going back to one of the things. earlier on, I think, Cavan, this is one of the things people love about you. There's this, like, impossible doesn't seem to exist for you.

It's like, yeah, okay, I'm going to do it. It doesn't matter. You know, I think many of us in life, we allow excuses to get in our way. We go, oh, you know what, that's happened. Of course I can't do this. And for me, one of the most inspiring things about you is that it seems that you don't really allow excuses in. Like, as you said, there's more to life than winning gold. Okay, a great life lesson for all of us. And it seems to be this can-do attitude. It's like, yeah, okay, well, you know what, the race finished. I had interviews for two hours. I had to do my dopamine control tests. I'm knackered. But hey-ho, why don't I do the marathon and see what happens? Is that literally

how you approach it? Yeah, to me, I think many people, especially, well, number one, how we destroy ourselves to have an excuse. Like for London Marathon, for yesterday, if I make a excuse, they're like, oh, she's great because she has this problem. But I'm also destroying myself. The good thing is actually because we're scared, you know, why we don't do money things, why we don't try, because we're scared to fulfill it. If we feel, and then people are going to judge us.

For example, if everybody's like, oh, she's great, I want to be always called me greater. Because when they say it's greater, I'm already in comfort. zone because everybody think I'm great. But if I try to out of that great comfort zone, I will be maybe challenging feel like people going to talk about me. I'm not good. So with care of actually judging, people judge us. I think the great thing is just tried it.

And don't care what I say, you try, you know. Don't think also to be like greatest. Just be, do you best. There is nobody great in everything. There is also nobody's bad in anything. Everybody has something. Just try, you know, do. So what I see is people just scared of trying, you know,

because somebody's going to judge them. This is, I mean, such an important bit of wisdom you just shared there for people. It's really interesting that you race marathons, but that's really a metaphor for life, isn't it? Life is a marathon. Yeah, exactly. In life, we have to endure.

Things are going to happen. It's going to feel tough at times. and somehow we have to find a way to get through. And actually, I was watching a video of yours this morning, Sifan, and it was really inspiring because you were saying, and to be clear, for everyone, you are one of the world's best athletes. You've got six Olympic medals, I believe. You're the current Olympic marathon gold medalist,

yet you still say that you have both parts of your mind. Sometimes you're really scared before you do something. You have fear, you have nerves. You're scared that you're not good. enough, that you are not enough, yet you do it anyway. And I thought, wow, if someone with six Olympic medals is saying that, that should be inspiring for all of us, for those of us who let fear get in the way of us living our best lives. I think I'm going to look. For example, after I won a Paris Olympic, everybody thinks I'm great. So I talk after Olympic four or five

month off and I'm already getting also weight. And especially six weeks ago, I was ready to run London Marathon. So in my heart because I did already out of comfort zone, I wasn't scared. But I know if I had an athlete, if they are not sure they're going

to win, they don't come. But to me I already used to. Because 21 I won gold, gold and one silver, 22, I had bad years. I didn't win any race. So they was like, she's done. Her life is over. Believe me, we all is scared. I'm scared. I'm terrified sometimes. But I just do it. I just win over my fear.

So I'm going to tell everybody wherever you look, tried. Who cares? Okay, done done. As long it's not dangerous, as long it doesn't kill you. Just try it. So this is interesting. Okay. So having won gold at the London Marathon in 2023, having won gold at the Olympic Marathon in Paris in 2024, or you came third in the London marathon yesterday, okay? Some people might look at that as a failure. Yeah. Right? If someone's listening right now and they think, yeah, well, you won two goals and then you came third,

well, that's not good. That's not what you would be expecting of yourself. Or whatever story they have about you, what would you say to them? I say, actually, you greater because of failure. The more you try, the more you fail. The more also you succeed because you try. Imagine if you try only one, two times, you may win one, two times. But if I try 10 times, I fail five times, I win five times.

Who is the winner? I'm winner. I win more than you. So it's like this. You could have a lot of failure, but you also have the chance to win. Look, I tried six, six distance at the two Olympics. I have three balloons. I have three gold.

So, and I also tried so many marathons, and I'm already having... But it's not even, for me, when I hear that, it's not even just how many golds you've got, right? You could have played it safe and just stuck to your distances, then you never would have learnt about the marathon and that it's a different event, different energy systems. How do you maintain that concentration for 42 kilometers, not just 5K or 10K? Yeah. And then going beyond the gold medals, it's also about life and what do we want our experience of life to be. Because how many new life experiences have you experienced through challenging yourself? So whether you got gold or not.

Of course it's important. Great. I'm not diminishing it. It's great that you've got the gold medals. But even if you hadn't, you would have learned so much about yourself, which you wouldn't have learned had you played it safe. Exactly. That's also, for me, people think it is all about running, run. No, it's not about running. It is also where after I go out of my running career, I can't jump into any business or any things. I will still figure out. I will still wear out to solve the problem. I will still have the solution for the problem. But that's where the confidence comes from, doesn't it, right? The confidence that you now have, even beyond your running career to solve problems and problems. are going to come up in life. Of course. The confidence comes from taking risks, from going outside

your comfort zone. I mean, some people, these things sound like cliches, but they're cliches because they're true, right? This is literally how you've learned. It's exactly. It's normal to have up and down. It's like if we have perfect life, we don't even enjoy, I think. We don't even enjoy life, I think. Going back to the 2024 Olympic marathon, you were telling me how halfway through, you were feeling good despite having done the 5K and the 10K and not much sleep leading out to it you're feeling good halfway through

and you were thinking about making a run making a break, right? And you heard some of your competitors talking in Ethiopian you could hear the language that they were worried or they were thinking about what you're going to do right? So you decided, okay, I'm not going to go.

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I say, just, you know, stay behind, race just don't make any mistake. Come back. That's really safe me. So it almost gave you an increased confidence. Exactly. You think, oh, they're talking about me. I'm the hunted one now. So fine.

I've got a bit more autonomy here. I can make decisions here. I don't need to push now. Let me save it. Yes. In case I need it. end and you did need it at the end, of course. It was quite a, how can I put it, quite a robust finish, right? Do you remember that finish? Do you remember what happened when it seemed

as though you guys almost touched at one point? Yeah, exactly. I was like, so I, I think like around 1K, I want to go to run next to her. One K left, so you nearly finished the race. And I was like, try to go next to her. I didn't know that she's blocking me, actually. So I was like, I was like, I see her again in front of me. I try here. I see. I thought, oh, she's so fast, I can't match her kidding. You can't match her. I thought, I thought, yeah, I can match her kids. I thought I didn't know that she tried to, like, block me.

So I just stayed behind her. And at the time, the time passed, we smash it, I feel like, I can't tell her. I feel like somebody gave me, like, wake up a call, like some crazy alarm or something. I was like, boom. Because you just exploded. Yeah, it's just, like, I shocked, actually. Were you shocked by how quick you were able to run at the end? No, I was shocked when we, like, she's smashing.

When we smash each other, I would, like, really wake up and I was like, try to sprint as hard. Oh, so you think that knock actually helped you? I think that knock you helped me a lot. Wow. It's really hard for me. And a question I think a lot of us who are non-elite athletes think about is, you know, you guys, of course, at the top level are competing with each other, right?

Yeah. You know, because only one person can get gold, right? Does that affect your relationship with these fellow athletes off the track? Is it hard to be friends with people off the track when part of your job is to try and beat them on the track? To me, most of the time, actually, I don't really have in the track. We talk and, you know, because most of the time, I think as an athlete, it's better you focus on yourself

because you can only do a only, you can only, you can only, control about yourself, but it's good also having competitive, you know. That makes actually a sport beautiful, you know. When you make a record and then someone beats that record, how do you feel? I don't really care. It's actually motivate me. Like when Fates break my my record and everybody's so, sorry, I was like, no, it's good because I know I can go harder.

What was your own my record? It was 412, a couple years ago. 4.12, 4 minutes and 12 seconds. Yes, she broke, I think, like 4, 4, 7, and now. Now, I believe, I try, actually, when I try before, like, before I jump into the maratoll, I's like, oh, I can break that record. Now, actually, fate make it easy. It's like, I know that's possible. Like, the record that break was 20-70 years old record.

So you broke a 20-year-old record, and after you broke it. And two years or three, he broke it. But we see this, don't we? We saw this with Roger Bannister and the four-minute mile. He breaks it after, well, he becomes the first human being to run under four minutes. and I think eight people break it in the next two years. A minute later, yeah, exactly. Because the mentality has changed.

And I think she has just announced that she wants to try and break the four-minute mile barrier later this year, I think. Did you hear that? Yeah, I hear that. It is very good. Like, it's actually, I'm very starting proud of many athletes because they're always stuck in one play. Now they try to, they're taking challenge, you know? That's what I want. Like, especially to me, actually, when they broke these, when they broke that, I really wanted to break now.

So I know it is possible. It's like I'm sure when athletes now do want to do a trade event and go to track and go back to marathon. It is easy because I have done. But if you never see somebody done, it is very hard because you are taking risk. But they know that I have done. It is easy for them. But I'm so happy like athlete now is starting taking challenge.

You know, they don't have to. Why we have to wait somebody try? Well, we don't try ourselves. I know it's very important to you to inspire women, isn't it? In fact, I read a quote from you, which was females will always have challenges, but the challenge is like practicing. It helps you get stronger to become a warrior. You know why is this important?

I want to actually inspire everybody. To me, it is because female are generation. If the female is strong, if a strong mother, if you're your wife or your mother, somebody's stronger, the child she produced, the child she feed is going to be stronger. That is a matter of, like when female is strong, the man is also strong. It's not I was focused only the female is strong as man. No, we're different. I'm different.

Even every man is different. So I don't have to be strong as man. I'm strong a different way. he's a strong different way. He's born differently. I'm born differently. But I'm equal as human being. I believe that.

I believe in equality. But I don't believe really that I'm strong as they. No, I'm not strong. But to me, I want to motivate women because I want to motivate all human beings. Because female are really generation. If the mother is weak, the child will be weak.

Whether a boy or a girl. That one. Like, if the mother is exercised, the child will exercise. If the mother is good in her head, the child will be good in his head. Yeah, I love that message. I think my wife would love it even more that message.

Yeah, exactly. I think she would very much be agreeing and going, yes, you're absolutely white. Yeah, it's interesting. Again, I can't speak for Ethiopia or for the Netherlands, but one thing that we see in the UK, and I think in many other Western countries, certainly the US I know is the same.

I don't know in the Netherlands that once girls get to the United, their teenage years, their physical activity starts to decline. Okay, so we know that we have a generation of young girls, teenagers, women who are not moving their bodies as much as would be good from a health perspective. Okay. Now, there's many reasons for that. One thing that I know some women feel, and men for that reason, but let's just keep this on women for a minute, is that they often feel self-conscious about their bodies they don't like the way that they look

and therefore that sort of shame or embarrassment stops them from let's say going for a run or going to the gym if there is a lady or even a teenage girl listening to us talk right now who feels a bit embarrassed to go out there and go for a run she's worried that people are looking at her she doesn't like the shape of her body or whatever it might be,

what would you say to her? So I say to her that, you know, the confidence that she does have is because she's not ursicide. When people, no ursia, they become the physical, body become weaker. When you are weaker, it doesn't matter how beautiful you are. You can't have confidence. Just start exercising.

When she becomes strong, her confidence is built. Even just being held strong, it's actually what build confidence and look at you. and you say, I'm, I'm strong. If your body strong, you don't see that you are, you're not beautiful, you're not looking good. You think you are looking good. You are better because something connection, you know, your neuro, your brain is connected. Oh, you're strong.

That's the why female and male are also different. Like, male is because they're born out with, they think, oh, I think that's what I'm going to say. They have to exercise. I really, especially, like, just don't sit behind the computer. They have to exercise. move to have that confidence back. In the 2024 medal ceremony, you wore your headscarf to the ceremony and it seemed to cause quite a lot of noise on the internet. Was she making a statement? Was she trying to say

something and send a message to the world? From your perspective, what actually happened? To me, to me, it's like, look, okay, I'm no hijab girl, to be honest. Like, a Muslim, according to religion, you have to cover all the body. But I do the hijabi to also send the message because I have learned from childhood in the Muslim people who wear hijab. They don't have confidence. They think the man is telling them to wear. They think they don't have, they are no smart and they are so weak.

So I just wanted the word, no, they have, they are very smart people, they are very independent, they are very strong. I just want to say, see, you could be Muslim and be strong and say whatever you want to be, be like in the good manner. Be just with a good morality. You could be Muslim, female and have great education, have been sport, be stronger. So that I want to see. So Muslim is actually, they choose to be Muslim. I choose to be Muslim. Nobody forested me.

It sounds like you wanted to almost, you know, break down barriers and judgment. I go, hey, look, I'm a gold medalist. I just kicked ass in the Olympic marathon and won an incredible sprint out. And I'm also someone who wears a headscarf to sort of break down that judgments, which, of course, there's a lot of judgment and discrimination in the world's very empowering message you were trying to put out that. Yes, yes. Did you get much push back? back and much negativity, or do you not even take any attention of that kind of stuff?

I really get any attention. Because to me, both of them, I don't take attention because if you also search for positive, one day they're going to crush you. If you also search for negative, both of them, it's no necessary. It's good that people say it's great, but it's good. If you want to be greatest, don't, don't search for anything. Don't search for the bad. Don't search for good also. You will be greater because you just feel, you just do what this. right, what is good for you. Other way, it's like the going in your head, people will decide for your life. It's good to also talk with people, you know, choose what is good and talk, be open-minded,

also flexible, but it's just, there's no necessary to search for both attention. Like I'm going to say, especially the children, don't search for anything to be greater. I completely agree. If you let the good go to your head, the negativity is going to bring you down as well. The one who put you up, I'm going to put you also down. Exactly. But you said before, without sad, there's no happy. Yeah, right? It's the balance of life.

We are success that is no failure. There is no success also. Yeah. So that's what I say. And then, yeah, exactly, this is what I just want to show in the world, like, they deserve. You seem to have a lot of mature life wisdom, right? That often we don't associate with people until they get quite a bit of older. And I'm interested to know, do you think that comes largely from your upbringing, the fact that you've had to move countries and get used to different cultures and different ways of living? Or do you think it's come through your athletic journey and running? Or is it

everything? No, I think to me, it's like, believe me, you will be intelligent if you travel around. I wasn't born that way. I'm not telling you genetically and this. Now, it comes. I'm Do also tell you from athlete's background because I know many athletes yesterday somebody asking me, you try every tune to be good where it comes from because I didn't see many Ethiopian

do that and running. I say because I travel around seeing just as a young move to this country, move to the state, it just opened up your mind where you get actually free school. Like we have to go to school as child. This is a great school actually. It's just, I think, just great school,

great university. called Gray University. Yeah. I think travel is amazing. It's amazing. It's amazing. Because it shakes you out of your belief system. Yeah.

You think the world is a certain way and you travel. You're like, oh, there's another way to operate in the world. There's another belief system. There's other ways that people live in harmony with completely different beliefs to me. And I really do believe that, of course, not everyone can travel, but more travel. I think would really make the world a lot happier and there'd be less discrimination. Yeah, exactly. Because you see, like now, when I talk to people, I know when I talk to in Ethiopia, people in Netherlands, on America,

I have totally different opinion and the person because I see differently, because I live in Netherlands, I live in Ethiopia. This time, you know, I want to Kenya for three months. It made me actually, I want to learn in Kenya, I want to learn about Kenya culture in university. It looks like. I feel actually part of like, oh, Africa, like my home, they think this way, this is the way they did. That's it. It's that curiosity that sort of seems to permeate everything you do. Exactly. Right? That curiosity. What's possible? What can I learn here? What's the language you grew up speaking in Ethiopia? I speak, they call Oromo language.

I think maybe half have done. People speak 15% of people. They speak the language. We're in Kenya also, because in the border, many people are even, they're Kenya, they speak the Oromo language. Did you also grow up speaking English? No, I just learned. Okay, this is interesting. So you, sorry, the language is called Oromo. Yes. So you grew up speaking that language.

Then you are a refugee to the Netherlands. Yes. And you didn't speak Dutch at the time. So you had to learn Dutch. I have to learn Dutch. I really don't speak that much English. I just know from school because you just have words. one language, one subject.

So when I come to Netherlands, I meditate like in three weeks. I was saying in the Netherlands, everybody's speaking English. I learned cook English than Netherlands. You learn English in Netherlands. Because Netherlands language is very tough. So I was saying what I did actually did help me. I was become lazy to learn the Dutch because I was so ready uncomfortable. So I have to suffer with this language when I'm speaking English.

So but then you did learn Dutch. I did learn and decided after a couple. I think after three years, I moved to Dutch coach. I start learning in the Netherlands. I was also 10 months of know. This is really bad when I speak in the TV. And what I like also about Dutch, they like when you speak that language. You try.

So I was like, okay, I have to become better. Just before we came into record, I had the pleasure of meeting your coach, Tim. Yeah. And I've been reading quite a lot about your coach recently. And one of the things I came across was on your way to the 2023 London Marathon. Again, this marathon that you'd never done before, he basically shared in an interview that, I think you said it as well, that quite soon before the marathon, you were thinking of even pulling out. But I think your team had said, look, London have just announced it.

It won't be good for their marketing. So you didn't want to let down the marketing in the event. So you go, oh, I'm going to do it. Even in the coach, I think on the way to the start line, you were thinking about pulling out, should I really be doing this? And he mentioned that you guys made a bet that I think he proposed to you that if you win, I'll give up sugar until the end of the year. But you came back with a higher bet, didn't you?

Yeah, exactly. I thought we'd joke him because he's very addicted to sugar before. And now I've got to joke, okay, if I win, you're not going to eat until party. Olympic. That was one year, a couple more, I think. He's like, okay, okay, deal. And we just make us a joke. And suddenly I thought, you know, I never thought I'm going to win. I ended up team was really struggling. He really gave up. He gave it sugar for 14 months. He really, really give up. Very few of us in life can succeed by ourselves. How important is your relationship with your coach Tim? It is very good. The team is actually, he's also very curious.

I used to, now, team is actually, when I say when I come up with something, he never say it's impossible. He's very curious also. He's like, he's also a risk taker. He thinks, yeah, it's possible. Every two, you say, yeah, why not, you know? That makes really easy for me. That is also, when I come out with three events, he's actually the one of, I announced like

a month before I'm going to do three events. He's the one of really supportive that I think you need as an athlete. You coach have to be one of the greatest support. Like, as a coach, like, you are actually coaching athletes, it's a big team. Like, it's one, two brain work as one. It feels like your coaches doesn't really support you, whatever your decision, you make you, you are down. So I say when athlete being curious, they have to choose that their coach is the one who supported them. I heard an interview with your coach, Tim, with a friend of mine, Florist from the Extra Milist,

podcast. And I think Flores asked him about advice for coaches. And he said many things, but one of the things he said, I really, really loved. He said, never ever joke negatively with your athletes. And I don't really like that. I thought it is, yes, it's important for athletes, but even in a marriage, in a relationship with your children, like, never joke about something negative. And I thought that was a really insightful piece of advice. Yeah, I think he's very smart, by the way. Because it's true, because the athlete and coach is so close. As even our brain have a lot of, to myself, I have a lot of negative things

and come into when I make the session. Then that comes to the athlete also make, yeah, maybe true. Maybe she's or he's better. Maybe I can't do, you know, that you know, this really. It is very important also to know. Yeah. I think it also resonates with me. because I was chatting to my kids recently about this.

This is before I heard that interview with Tim. And one of them made a joke, just a stupid joke. But I said, hey, listen, even if your sibling believes 1% of that, right? Even though you meant it as a joke, that can have implications for that person later on. It's true. Right? Do not joke negatively. It's true.

You know, find something else to joke about, but not about someone's weakness or what you perceive as a weakness. Is it? And just hearing that, maybe think, God, he really must be a wonderful coach. No, he's really, this is great. Now, it's really true also because, like, especially with children, the parents are rule model. If you joke about it, they really take serious. They may say they're laughing, but in the head when they come, like, maybe that's true. You know, when the time, the difficulty time, they don't search for solution.

They say, maybe I'm super. Like, if you have a child, like a girl child, if you talk about. how strong female it's how they success they will want to become like that success if you always tell about other history how wow amazing

she did amazing thing because I know as a child I hear like my mom was talk when some female did amazing thing she always said wow this what amazing thing she did I was like oh I want to become I want to be like that person so

people can't say also that's what as a child you just want to you don't know anything you just take it So, Van, you've experienced many different challenges in your life up to this point. What would you say is the hardest thing you've ever done? The hardest thing is I have, that is, it was the hard when I move from Netherlands to US. Like when I was like, I already know, oh, I'm safe, I've success. I get to survive

enough money but I may lose everything and I have to go back to school educate and I gain a job so that's the hardest thing but like you know right now I'm in good position if I keep this going keep

for five, six years I could own something and I could survive but I say oh I'm going to choose to go to that and it could be ended up things go a different way and I was like okay I just I choose

okay, if things doesn't work, I do try three, four years, I go to school and go back to school, have my diploma or degree, and then I go to work. That's the hardest thing. The other hardest things is when I decide Tokyo Olympic to do three events when I wasn't have any Olympic medal. Wow. And each of those hard things that you did or put yourself, forward for, for you has paid dividends, but for some people they don't always. Sometimes they try

and do something hard and it doesn't pay off. Yeah, it doesn't pay off. I had also really hard years in 2022. It didn't pay off. I was really struggling. But it's not always, but keep working, never give up. Yeah. Many people who listen to this show, Sifan, really enjoy something called Park Run, which is a weekly 5K run every Saturday morning that people do in community and in groups, okay? You are an elite athlete, one of the world's best female runners. I've got two running questions for you, okay? For someone who is not a runner, but wants to build up to running 5K, what is your advice for them? And for someone who already run, and for someone who already runs a 5K regularly, but wants to get a PB, a personal best in 2025, what advice would

you have for them? So the first advice what they give it, not only 5K, every runner. Many runners, they run, they don't do gym. They have to. Gym is one of important for your life. They have to lift. They have to do heavy lift. Even the people who's older, when they become 60, 50, 65, whatever, they have to do lift.

That's very important. Don't only run. Because, number one, you're going to avoid the injury. Number two, you're born less and going to be stronger. Number three, what I say for the younger, you're going to become stronger and confidence. If you're going to improve your p.b, you're going to look at yourself. If you feel strong and you're going to run also the fastest. So then don't forget your core.

Don't forget the gym. It's heavy lift, everything. I do a lot of lifts. They think, why you don't be bigger? Because you cannot get bigger. You body adapt to what you more do. If you do at the gym every day five hours, yes, you're going to be. If you do two times gym, one hour, heavy lift, you're not going to be.

You just become stronger and you also become, have more gross hormone. That means you are actually more feeter. Number two, also don't avoid speed. When you do speed, you make your right, right. and left. So you make one stronger. When you do long distance, I think you make your right,

your left vertis stronger. So it is good for your heart also. To do longer, also to do sprint. And also when you did like, that's the way. If you do like long run, I don't know, some people do 20 minutes long run. Some people do 45.

Some people do 90 minutes and do that. The other also don't only run. Do sometimes biking. go to pool. That's how you're going to run, because our brain love to play. They don't like to do one thing. They get bored.

Maybe they're going to go good at it, but you're not going to improve. But if you, they do something, number one, they're going to enjoy sport. The other, also, they just going to improve also. So whatever, if you run, but also editing, if you have pull, and you pull also. Either way, I don't know, do core or gym,

and that you're going to run PB. Love it. You're someone who smiles a lot. even when you're taking on a really difficult challenge, what does the word happiness mean to you? Number one, why I smile, I learn. I learned after this sadness, it's going to be something great coming. Like what I learned is like, it's not going to stay dark.

The depressed yesterday I was like, okay, I may say that it didn't win, you know. But I know that they will come when I win actually going to have more happiness. So that I'm thinking like, okay, Actually, you know, my most of goal had made it when I lost, not when I win. When I lost, I make a really great goal, like crazy goal. I don't know why. Wow. I know I'm not going to be always happy.

Sometimes I'm depressed. Sometimes I'm angry. Sometimes I'm sad. Yeah, the full breadth of experience, like long, slow runs and short, fast runs. Happiness, sadness, anger, calm, you know, it's good to experience everything, right? Exactly, yeah. Yeah, it's incredible. You know, talking to you is just so inspiring. I can see why so many people around the world truly love you, right? And feel connected to you and feel that when they watch you run or speak, that they feel that they can do better things in their own life, right? And I'm pretty sure after today's conversation, a lot of people will also feel inspired by your curiosity, your playfulness, your, I guess, your directness as well.

You know, you don't sort of hide your words. You tell it as you see it, which I find, I think many people find really, really inspiring. There's a lot of people around the world who feel as though they're in a dark place. Okay, they can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. You're someone who has also been in those dark places before. To finish off this conversation, for that person who's watching right now, who does feel that their life is not going in the way that they want it to go and that they cannot see light at the end of the tunnel,

what would your final words for them be? If you look at me, the people who even, if the person who watch, who knows he's even, or maybe he never said now he's Googling, look at it. He said, oh, wow, what he done is great. it, believe me, whatever you feel inside you, I feel the same. Even now, I think the things is not going the way I want. I'm angry. I'm sad.

I'm happy. So even the girl you think, the woman, you think is success, feeling the same as you feel. Maybe the people, the success people, they don't say, they're actually the one who fail more. Because when they're success also, you want more success, more success. The thing doesn't go the way they want. Maybe, maybe couple things, they try, they try, maybe three, four things go the way they want. Maybe 20 things doesn't go the way they want.

You only see the one success thing. So think it, wherever you think about it, wherever you have it, I have it, I experience even now. I want to win yesterday I didn't win because I already have great names. They say she's winner, she's here, or she's that. I want to do that, but it didn't happen. You think I was angry I was like angry myself when I want to sleep But that's human being

That's all we are the same Believe me, we are just nobody is special This is just matter of experience Matter of the trying Just keep going So believe in that, that's what I say Sofan, you're an incredible human being You're inspiring millions of people around the world

Thank you for making some time to come on my show Thank you so much. Thank you. Really hope you enjoyed that conversation. Do think about one thing that you can take away and apply into your own life. And also have a think about one thing from this conversation that you can teach to somebody else. Remember, when you teach someone, it not only helps them. It also helps you learn and retain the information. Now before you go, just wanted to let you know about Friday 5. It's my free weekly email containing five simple ideas to improve your health and happiness. In that email, I share exclusive insights that I do not share anywhere else, including health advice, how to manage your time better, interesting articles or videos that I'd be consuming and quotes that have caused me to stop and reflect. And I have to say in a world of endless emails, it really is delightful that many, if you tell me it is one of the only weekly emails that you actively look forward to receiving. So if that sounds like something you would like to receive each and every Friday, you can sign

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