Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - How To Unlock The Power of Your Subconscious Mind with Dr Bruce Lipton #308

Episode Date: November 2, 2022

Have you ever felt held back by a habit or pattern of thinking that you feel powerless to break? Or perhaps felt frustrated by a loved one’s failure to see mistakes they’re repeating? The reason it’s so hard, says today’s guest, is that these actions are programmed into our subconscious minds from early childhood. And they affect not just our behaviour but our whole experience of life and even our risk of disease. The chances are we’re completely unaware of these programs but, importantly, we can change them.   Dr Bruce Lipton began his career as a cell biologist graduating from the University of Virgina before joining the Department of Anatomy at the University of Wisconsin’s School of Medicine in 1973. Today, he describes his work as bridging science and spirituality and in his bestselling book The Biology of Belief, he sets out the idea that our thoughts affect all the cells in our body.   Bruce explains how, as children, our subconscious minds ‘download’ what we see and hear adults around us doing and saying – and these become the programs that drive our habits and thinking throughout life. Depending on our early experiences, they might be programs like ‘I’m not good enough’ or ‘It’s my fault’ – and it’s not much of a leap to see how these might create unwanted behaviours as we grow up.   Happily, we can cultivate self-awareness and learn to reprogram our minds, to create positive behaviour change. Bruce shares his practical guidance on how we can start to do that immediately. As we go on to discuss, reprogramming our minds can be incredibly liberating, affecting our happiness, confidence, health, work and relationships – with others and, crucially, with ourselves.   This was a warm and empowering conversation with a wonderful, kind-hearted man. I hope you enjoy listening. Support the podcast and enjoy Ad-Free episodes. Try FREE for 7 days on Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/feelbetterlivemore. For other podcast platforms go to https://fblm.supercast.com. Order Dr Chatterjee's latest book Happy Mind, Happy Life: UK version: https://amzn.to/304opgJ, US & Canada version: https://amzn.to/3DRxjgp Show notes https://drchatterjee.com/308 DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

Now there's a whole new understanding because we're not victims of the genes. We understand now that we actually control our genetic activity through our consciousness. Less than 1% of disease is connected to genes. Less than 1%. 90% plus is all stress related. Hey guys, how you doing? Hope you're having a good week so far. My name is Dr. Rangan Chatterjee and this is my podcast, Feel Better, Live More. How often do you feel held back by a habit or pattern of thinking that you feel powerless to break? How often have you felt frustrated by a loved one's failure to see mistakes that they're repeating time and time again? Well, the reason it's so hard, says today's

guest, is that these actions are programmed into our subconscious minds from early childhoods, and they affect not just our behavior, but our whole experience of life, and even our risk of disease. And it's more than likely that we're completely unaware of these programs, but importantly, we can change them. Dr. Bruce Lipson began his scientific career as a cell biologist. He received his PhD degree from the University of Virginia before joining the Department of Anatomy at the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine all the way back in 1973. Today, he describes his work as bridging science and spirituality, and in his best-selling book, The Biology of Belief, he sets out the idea that our thoughts affect all the cells in our body.

Now in our conversation, Bruce explains how as children, our subconscious minds download what we see and hear adults around us doing and saying. And these become the programs that drive our habits and thinking throughout life. Depending on our early experiences, they might be programs like, I'm not good enough, or it's my fault. And it's not much of a leap to see how these might potentially create unwanted behaviors as we grow up. Happily, however, as you will soon find out, we can cultivate self-awareness and learn to reprogram our minds. self-awareness and learn to reprogram our minds. We can start to change our long-standing behaviors and Bruce shares his practical guidance on how we can start to do that immediately. He also explains how liberating this can be with huge benefits for our happiness, confidence, health, work and our

relationships with others and crucially with ourselves as well. This was a warm and empowering conversation with a wonderful, kind-hearted man. I hope you enjoyed listening. And now, my conversation with Dr. Bruce Lipton. A central idea in all of your work appears to be that it's our subconscious minds that are driving our day-to-day behaviors. And for many of us, it's those subconscious patterns that are sabotaging the quality of our life. Yeah, but the big problem is when you say the word subconscious, that means below conscious. So when people are programming or playing their subconscious, they're the ones that don't see it. I talk to people, I say, well, I give them a story for like 40 years,

the same story. I say, you have a friend and you know your friend's behavior very well and you know your friend's parent. And one day you see your friend has the same behavior as their parent. And I joke and I say, well, hey, Bill, you're just like your dad. And I say, I know exactly what Bill's going to say. First thing he's going to say is, how can you compare me to my dad? I'm nothing like my dad. And yet everybody else can see he's like his dad. The only one who can't see it is Bill. And this becomes the most profound point because he's programmed by his dad in the first seven years and he plays his programs 95% of the day.

And the reason why he plays the subconscious programs is because the conscious mind is busy thinking. And thinking is an inside job, not looking out. And I go, yeah, well, let's say I'm driving my car and I start thinking and then my conscious is not looking out now. My conscious is thinking of something. I say, well, then who's driving the car?

And I go, this is the most important point. The subconscious is autopilot. The moment the conscious is not paying any attention about something, subconscious sits in and starts driving the car according to the program. And that's where the issues come from. The subconscious programs were downloaded by observing other people. So when you're playing your subconscious, you're not playing you, you're playing your download, really. And you don't see it because you're thinking,

but everybody else sees the response. And this is where the whole disconnect comes in because people think, oh, I'm a happy, wonderful, loving person, and they have trouble out in the world, and they don't understand it. But what they're missing is you're not playing that happy, loving person except 5% of the day. 95% of our behavior is coming from sub, below consciousness. And we're the ones that can't see it when we play it, but everybody else, of course, is seeing exactly what we're doing.

So the whole idea is, are you living the life you want, or are you living the life you've been programmed? And the answer, unfortunately, is most of us are living the life we've been programmed, and the programming comes from other people. So it's not our lives. Yeah, this is such a key point.

Because as you were just demonstrating there, right, we can see patterns in other people so clearly. But they don't see it as well as you do it. Yeah. Well, let's give a reason why programming occurs, okay? The brain is a computer, most powerful computer that humans have ever experienced. But it has parallels to computers. And number one is this. In the old days, when you would buy a computer before they put the programs in, you could bring it home, brand new computer, plug it in, push start, boots up, screens on, and I say, do something. And people, well, no, I can't do anything. You got a brand new computer. First, you have to put programs into a computer before you can use that computer. The brain of a human is the same thing.

The screen lights up in the last trimester of pregnancy. It's ready, but there are no programs. So the first seven years of a child's life is the brain is not operating at the higher level of consciousness, higher level, higher vibration. That's what we talk about. We put wires on a person's head,

electroencephalograph read brain function a child up through seven is not operating uh consciousness except for a little bit it's primarily operating in a lower vibration called theta and i said well what is theta i say it's expressed as imagination so that's how uh children can have a tea party and they pour nothing into the cup and then they drink the nothing and then they explain how that was the best tea they ever had. Or a child rides a broom saying it's a horse. In the child's mind, that is not a broom, it's a horse. But it's mixing imagination and reality. But theta is hypnosis. And the significance of that is children have to learn how to become a member of a family, the rules. Member of a community, the rules. I go, how can an infant, a young kid,

learn these rules? They can't go to school, they can't read the book and all that. And I say, you don't have to. Nature provided theta hypnosis so that they can observe the parents, the family, and the community. Just observe their behavior and download those as programs. Age seven, then that's when they start to become more conscious and engaging themselves. So the first seven years is programming. And then after that, we play actually, unfortunately, 5% of our life from our creative conscious mind, 95% from the program. Interesting point. Is this a new idea? And I go, 400 years, the Jesuits have told their followers, give me a child until it is seven, and I will show you the man. And what they knew is exactly what we just said. First seven years is programming. But after age seven, 95% of your life is coming from

that program. So if you can program the child for the first seven years, then the rest of the life of that child is actually an expression of that program. Yeah, it's interesting. We've covered, I guess, similar themes on the show in the past, but through a different lens, on this show in the past, but through a different lens, that our childhoods are hugely influential in terms of our adult behaviors. We develop, we adapt. So, you know, we take on certain behaviors to survive, to be accepted by our caregivers, to get the love and the validation from our parents or whoever might be looking after us, our teachers maybe. And they potentially served us well as children, but we're still playing out those same behaviors when we're adults, but we're not children anymore, we're adults. And we need to now re-examine them and go, do I still want that behavior in my life?

Or do I want to, as you would say, reprogram it so I can live a different type of life? That's the most important insight people need to know right now. Because as I said, if you're playing a subconscious program, by definition, you're playing it not with consciousness, you're playing it without you're even paying attention to it. And I say, but why? Well, that's why I said, the conscious mind is creative, but the conscious mind can think. I go, so what's the difference? I say, well, creative is all that imagination,

but thinking is an inside. If I ask you, I say, tell us what you're doing next Monday. And it's not written here anywhere. And for a moment, you're going to say, oh, let me think. And then you're going to come, oh, let me think. And then you're going to come up with an answer. And I say, yeah, but where was the answer? It wasn't out here. The answer was in here.

So I said, oh, then you had to redirect your attention for thinking to look inside. But the moment you're looking inside, then you're not, by definition, using the conscious creative mind to look outside. And that's when the subconscious, is the autopilot, steps in, and will manage the things that you're not paying attention to. But it will only manage it according to the downloaded program that you got in that first seven years.

And it's very hard. If I say, well, what program did you get in that first seven years? And the issue is this. Well, you were being programmed before you were born, last trimester of pregnancy. We already know that programming is occurring. I mean, a simple thing is if you play music through the abdominal wall when a woman is pregnant and the fetus is inside, she plays the music. When that baby is born, it will instantly remember or know that music. And even if the father is talking, the voice of the father is transmitted

through the abdominal wall. Baby is born, the father says something, the baby knows exactly who that voice is. So that's even before you're born, okay? Then I say, yeah, but you got programmed from before birth. You got programmed a whole year from zero to one. I say, so what do you remember? You go, there was no memory there. I say, okay, you got another whole year whole year from zero to one. I say, so what do you remember? You go,

there was no memory there. I say, okay, you got another whole year of programming from one to two. I say, what programs you got? You say, I don't know, because consciousness wasn't engaged. And so the problem is, programmings were coming in, but the individual had no conscious awareness of the program. It just was record, playback, record, playback. That's what it's all about. And then I said, well, this becomes a problem because then I say, well, what are your programs that essentially control your life? And the answer is, I have no idea what those programs are. So I just want to help people for a second because it is established that only 5% of the time are we using the conscious creative mind to run our life. 95% of the time is coming from the program. So here's a simple insight. The things that come

into your life that you like, they come into your life because you have a program to accept them. But those things that we want and we work hard and we sweat over and put a lot of effort, I'm going to make it. I'm going to make this happen. I'm working on it. I'm working real hard. Why are you working so hard? And the answer is not because the universe won't give it to you. It's because unconsciously your program does not support that destination and you're trying to override it with extra work and effort. So then life becomes a job, more or less, trying to get those things you want when your program unconsciously is sabotaging you. You know, as we have this conversation, Bruce, I've been a practicing medical doctor for just over 21 years now. And there's been a real evolution in my thought

process throughout my career. I've, from very early on, felt that a lot of the time in medicine, we put sticking plasters on our patients' problems, which really aren't solving the underlying problem and are at best just keeping it at bay for a few more weeks till they return back. That's at best. I think I realized early on that if I can help my patients change various things in their lifestyle, the way that they're living their life, food, movement, sleep, stress, sure, it can have a huge impact. Yes, absolutely. But then over the past few years, I thought, what's going on here? Because a lot of people have done that. They've changed their life.

They feel better. So they've had the knowledge. They've experienced it. They felt better for maybe six months, maybe a year, maybe two years. And sometimes people would revert back to their previous behaviors. What is going on here? And I've really carefully examined the patients throughout my career who have not just changed in the short term,

but changed and transformed their lives for good. And there's always been a big shift up here in their minds, the way they think, the way they approach the world. So when I think about your work and what you've just said to me, and I look at it through the lens of health, and many people listen to the show and watch it because they want to get healthier. I feel that a lot of the time, the reason they can't make lifestyle change stick is because the underlying program that was driving them to behave in a certain way has not been addressed. That's exactly what the problem is. When people say the mind, the idea, oh, there's a mind, a single mind, I go, well, that's the first mistake. There are two minds. We mentioned conscious and subconscious. But we also have to

mention this. They each have a different function. And they, most importantly, they learn in different ways. So the conscious mind is creative. And that means it's the one with the imagination and things that you want and you desire and you can put that in. And you could read a book, a self-help book, and you say, oh, I got all this knowledge now from this book. And I went to the lecture and I did all these things. I got all this knowledge. My life hasn't changed. I go, well, that's because the conscious mind being creative can learn in any number of different ways. You can just go, aha, I have a new idea, and your conscious mind can change. The subconscious mind, by definition, is the habit mind. And I go, significance, habits resist change, because if habits change, then they're not habits anymore.

So all of a sudden, you say, well, if I download a habit, can I, you know, think out of that habit? I go, no, because that's not how it learns. And so the conscious mind in most people is very smart. I'm sure, look, this audience has been listening to you for a long time. They got great understanding. And many of them will go, yeah, I really understand what you've been talking about, but somehow or other with all that knowledge, my life is still the same. And I go, that's because when you educate the conscious mind, that's easy. But that process does not create a habit. So you can have a super smart conscious mind, all the data, all the material. I read the book. I know everything about it. I go, yeah, but that doesn't change the program on the inside.

A lot of people think, well, I'm going to give myself a good talking to. And that's where the joke comes because I say, there's nobody in the subconscious mind. It's the exact equivalent of a hard drive in a computer. It's got programs in it. There's nobody in it. And you can talk to your blue in the face with the conscious mind, trying to tell the subconscious mind change the program. I go, yeah, that's not how it learns a program. I want to talk about how we can start to go about changing these programs. But before we get there, where does stress fit in here? Because if you look around society these days, many people are living in a state of stress. Yes. So how does stress and living in a stress state relate to our conscious and non-conscious minds? That is perhaps one of the most important questions in this world right now for a very simple reason. We believe so many issues and diseases are associated with genes.

And I say, when I was teaching in a medical school, what was I teaching doctors? Well, at that time, oh, genes turn on and off, and genes control the character. And then I say, well, as far as you know, you didn't pick the genes. And if you don't like your characters, you can't change the genes. And since they activate themselves, then you become a victim of your heredity. Oh my God, there's cancer running in my family. I have a cancer gene. And I go, okay, let's get to a real simple fact. Less than 1% of disease is connected to genes. Less than 1%. 90% plus is all stress related. Okay. So all of a sudden I say, well, you want to try to adjust the genes.

I said, the genes didn't have a problem. It was the stress that was causing the problem. And now with the new science, it's called epigenetics. It sounds like genetics, but epi means above. So what we call skin, epidermis, because just below the surface skin is a layer called the dermis. Epidermis means above the dermis, that's the skin. So I say epigenetics means control epi, above the genes. And now there's a whole new understanding because we're not victims of the genes. We understand now that we actually control our genetic activity

through our consciousness or subconscious, more importantly, because that's 95% of the time. A big important point. This is like maybe a lot of people in the audience are going to freak when I say this, but for example, there's no gene that causes cancer. Everyone says, oh, oncogenes, cancer genes. I go, no, there's no gene that causes cancer. They're correlated with cancer, but they're not the cause. So especially like women are very concerned

because they get, I've got diagnosed. I have the BRCA, breast cancer gene. Immediately, what's the consciousness of the programming that people have? The gene is gonna give me cancer. And now the fear of cancer rises in them because they say they have this gene. And then I go, well, guess what?

50% of the women carry this gene, never get I go, well, guess what? 50% of the women carry this gene, never get the cancer. So the first thing you have to understand is this, possession of the gene doesn't cause the cancer. It's a life that's not in harmony, a life that's out of balance. That's when that gene is activated. So we've been blaming genes, but we're never giving any credit or power to the person who can influence those genes. And this is what epigenetics is all about. Consciousness is controlling your genetic activity. It reminds me a little bit of an autoimmune theory that I think was first put forward by Dr. Fasano in America, I think at Harvard, where he put forward that you need three things

in order to have an autoimmune disease. You need, yes, the genetic predisposition, not the genetic destiny, the genetic predisposition. You need some sort of environmental trigger. There you go. And you need a degree of intestinal permeability, which is also known as leaky gut, colloquially. It says if you have those three things, then you can develop autoimmune disease. And I always found that really fascinating because it kind of made sense to me that,

you know, yes, you can have a certain genetic blueprint, But actually how that blueprint plays out is going to depend on your environment and your lifestyle. 100%. That's so important. You know, there's very interesting insight here. And that is when people follow the fate of a child adopted into a family where there's cancer, they find that the adopted child will get the same family cancer at the same probability as any of the natural siblings. that the adopted child will get the same family cancer at the same probability as any of the natural siblings. So an adopted child picks up that, gets that cancer. But here's the point. The adopted child came from totally different genetics. So it was not the genetics that pushed that cancer. It was being adopted into a family where the programming was not giving them wholeness, health, happiness.

It's just stressful, very stressful programming. And as you said, stress. American Psychological Association recognizes 90% of doctor visits are stress-related visits. And we don't focus on the stress that's like, oh, a side thing. I say, no, it's not a side thing. It's the number one thing that is coming from the top down. And the genes are blueprints to make the proteins of the body,

100,000 different proteins, like building blocks, okay? Proteins are complex molecules, and they wear out. Proteins wear out all the time. So you have to replace them. I said, well, how do you replace this complex molecule? And the answer is DNA is a blueprint to make a protein. I go, so what? And I go, well, you go into an architect's office and she's working on a blueprint. And I say, well, ask her, is your blueprint on or off? And she would look at it and go, what are you talking about? The blueprint is on and off. I go, precisely. Genes cannot turn themselves on and off. They don't self-actualize.

They're controlled by environmental signals. And all of a sudden, oh my God. Well, if the environment is controlling this and you're programming in the environment, your lifestyle in the environment and all these other things now become the primary controlling factor of your genes, not the genes. And we have to let go because when I was programming the doctors that, oh, genes turn on and off and all that stuff, I was programming that people are victims because, as I said, as far as you know, you didn't pick the genes. You can't change them.

They operate by themselves. And so we were programming victim. And then it turns out the new science of epigenetics is not victim. You're the one that's actually controlling it with your behavior. Yeah, this is such a key point. I think just to pause on this idea that if we are simply just going to be playing out our genetic destiny, then we've lost a huge amount of empowerment.

And a couple of things come to mind here, Bruce. I felt very strongly early on in my career that one of the most important things I need to do with any patient, with every patient, is to make sure they walk out my door with a feeling of empowerment, that they feel, even if they've had, you know, a horrible diagnosis, that there's something they can do to influence how they're going to feel, to influence the outcome. Maybe not even a reversal sometimes, but just influence how they're going to feel with that condition. Well, what I have to say is this.

Knowledge is power, and lack of knowledge is a lack of power. When people don't know that they're involved with their own life and their own genetics and their own behavior because they're programmed to be the victim, then they become a victim because they have no knowledge of this. And what you're doing and what I'm doing is let's wake up. You are powerful if you understand how this works. And if you don't understand how it works, you just say, no, it's not me. I'm not in control. And people walk away feeling like there's nothing I can do. The genes are controlling this and I

don't control the genes. I go, well, that's the story that's wrong. And when people are allowed to walk away from a medical practitioner with that belief, then that practitioner in no way has helped that patient because the idea is this. As you said, I've got to help them get a better attitude when they walk out of this building. I have to give them more power so that they have more power because if they walk out saying there's nothing I can do, then the game is over at that point. I'm interested in your individual journey, Bruce, because you come from a very, very strong and respected scientific background. Because a lot of people may think, yes, some of these concepts may sound spiritual.

And as I get older, I'm very interested with the intersection between science and spirituality anyway. But epigenetics is something I've been aware of for maybe 10, 15 years, something like that. You were, I think, talking about this way before anyone. 1967. 1967, right? Have the term epigenetics even been coined then? No, because my research at that time showed the role of epigenetics, but there was no term epigenetics. We actually created a word called transformation, that something transforms the existing thing.

Now it's called epigenetics. That's the mechanism of how your consciousness can rewrite this program. And I saw this, I was cloning what are called stem cells. So could you say what a stem cell is? I should say that because people don't know. So let's make a simple point. A body is made out of 50 trillion cells. That's a number that is so massive that you can say it, but you can't imagine it. And every day, every one of us is losing

hundreds of billions of cells every day. Normal attrition. Skin cells are sloughing off. The whole digestive tract, the lining of the digestive tract from the mouth to the anus, this is massive amount of tract. The lining is replaced every three days.

And I started to say, well, if I keep losing the cells, would I die? And I said, well, if you can't replace them, of course you would die. And I said, yeah, but then I said, how can I keep losing cells and still replace them? The answer is, before you were born, these were embryonic cells that were giving you the structure and function, okay? After you're born, you still have embryonic cells in your body, but you're not an embryo. So we changed the name, call it stem cell, because before birth, I could do a biopsy and look, oh, say here, here's an embryonic cell.

If I wait one minute after birth, look at the same biopsy, look at the same cell. Now it's, oh no, that's called a stem cell. So stem cells are embryonic cells. They're there to replace all the cells that are going wrong. So my research revealed that I was cloning stem cells. And that all of a sudden, what does that mean? I say, I put one cell in a dish, one stem cell, and it divides every 10 hours about. After a week, I've got 30,000 cells in the Petri dish because they keep doubling and doubling and doubling, okay? Here's my experiment, and it was like so clear. I took those 30,000 cells, and now you have to recognize they're genetically identical cells because they only came from one parent. So 30,000 genetically identical cells. I split the cells up into

three dishes, 10,000 cells in each dish. So all the dishes have genetically identical cells. But we grow them in the lab, something called culture medium. And we're going to come back to this. That's critical. Because what is culture medium? I'll give you a hint. Laboratory version of blood.

So if I grow human cells, I say, what's human blood made out of? Because that's what nourishes cells. And I make a version in the lab called culture medium. Since I'm synthesizing culture medium, I can change some of the combinations of the chemistry. So I create three different versions of culture mediums, like chemistry difference. And I feed the cells. In one dish, I feed them version one of the culture medium, and the other version two, and the third dish, version three. In the first dish, the cells form muscle. In the second dish, the cells form bone.

In the third dish, with a different environment, the cells form fat cells. And here I am teaching in medical school that genes control life, and here's my laboratory experiments to say, all these cells are genetically identical. How come one became muscle, how the other one became bone,

how the other one became fat? And it was like, it was based on the culture medium and all of a sudden i said oh my god the cell fate wasn't controlled by the genes it was controlled by the environment in which the cells live and and if you change the environment you change the fate of the cells so that completely canceled the idea that genes were in control. And that's on the micro. And on the macro, we humans are, as you say, 50 trillion cells or something like that. And our culture medium is the environment around us now. Well, okay. And this is the real important part. Let's look at the body as a skin-covered petri

dish. Why? I got 50 trillion cells under my skin. Instead of's look at the body as a skin-covered petri dish. Why? I got 50 trillion cells under my skin. Instead of a plastic dish, it's a skin dish inside. But I have the original culture medium, which is blood. And I say the chemistry of the culture medium, whether the cell's in a plastic dish or whether it's in the skin dish, it's still the culture medium that controls the fate of the cells.

So in the human body, it's the blood chemistry that actually activates the genetics in the cell. And I go, so why is this significant? I say, well, what controls the blood chemistry? It's going to make an important point right here. And I say, the brain is the chemist and puts in the stuff into the like growth factors, emotional chemicals, you know, neuropeptides, things like that, putting it into the blood. Then comes the most important question. So the blood is the chemist putting the chemistry into the blood. The blood is the culture medium,

so the chemistry of the culture medium is controlling the fate. Okay, got that. But then the most important question comes, what chemistry should the brain put into the blood? What chemistry? And then comes the answer, which is so blow away. And the answer is this. Whatever picture you hold in your mind, the brain translates that into complementary chemistry. If I have a picture of love, my brain releases wonderful things into the blood,

like dopamine for pleasure, oxytocin to bond with others, a growth hormone. And growth hormone does exactly what it says. So when you're in love, you're releasing this growth hormone, which enhances your vitality. And that's why when people fall in love, they get so healthy. They get, you know, they say, oh, look how they glow. They're so in love. And I go, this is the chemistry of the blood engaging the behavior of the cells. But I say, but what if I'm holding a picture of something that scares me? I say, well, you're not going to release love chemistry. You start to release stress hormones and factors that affect the immune system and all that.

I say, well, that's a different chemistry. I go, yeah, just like in the culture dish dish a different chemistry leads to a different genetic activity and all of a sudden says oh my god your thoughts are being turned into complementary chemistry which then controls your genetics and this all of a sudden says well then if i want to change my genetics so i have to go in and change the cells and i said no it's changing your thought that's all you have to do. Yeah, and I think people, if they really self-examine, they already know that. They already know that when I feel scared or stressed or anxious, things happen in my body.

You know, my gut starts to change or you have an urge to go to the toilet or you get a headache or whatever, right? And we know it's a well-established scientific fact that stress, psychological stressors, will elevate cortisol and all kinds of knock-on consequences in our body. So the fact that our thoughts change our biology,

I think it's not... Although it's quite obvious, I just don't think people realize that, that have positive thoughts that will influence your biology, have negative thoughts. What's interesting, and that will also influence your biology. And I've heard you say, Bruce, in an interview, I've heard you in the past, I think you said,

60% of these unconscious programs are disempowering and are limiting beliefs that we've acquired from other people. 60%. Yes, that's a massive number. And then recognize, but that 60% is coming from the subconscious. So the individual playing that subconscious is the one that they're not even aware they're playing this subconscious. So their life seems to be out of control. Oh, I want to be happy. I want to have a great job. I want to have a great romance. I said, that's conscious wishes and desires. Conscious wishes and desires, subconscious habit.

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the genetics and all this, and I love to tell people. And I remember every time I finished a lecture, the first question was, how do you change it? And I was like, at that time, I didn't have any idea how to change it. I just recognized how it worked. And it was so frustrating. But now, really, over the years in my study, now I really understand how you change it. And the idea is, well, how do you change a program? That was the issue. Not how you change the conscious mind. How do you change the subconscious mind? because it doesn't learn, conscious mind learns by just whatever you read the book, I learned it, okay, subconscious mind doesn't learn that way, I say, how does it learn, I say, well, in the first seven years,

that's when I said the programming went in, the brain wasn't functioning at the higher level of consciousness, it was actually a little lower, that was called theta, the vibration, the imagination and all that. That's hypnosis. Okay. So the first way we learned programs was hypnosis because the function of the brain was at a low, you know, lower vibration. Some people might remember the old days when hypnotherapy, they'd have a watch and the hypnotherapist said, you know, swing the watch back and forth and they would say, you're getting tired, you're getting tired. And what was the point? When you get tired, you lower the vibration of the brain. And the moment you fall asleep, actually, consciously, the next level of activity of the brain is theta before it goes down to the lowest vibration, delta sleep. So every night when

you go to bed, there's a period just after you close your eyes and you're essentially disconnected for a moment, your brain is operating in theta. Well, theta is hypnosis, okay? So I said, well, that's how your brain was in theta during that childhood period as predominantly. Now you're an adult. I said, yeah, but you have theta every night when you go to bed. So I say, what can you do? And this is the old story. You've heard people do it. You put a pair of earphones on at night.

You play a program that you want to be true in your life. And while you're awake, you might hear the program, but it's the moment you fall asleep, the conscious mind shut off, but the subconscious mind is now in record theta. So whatever is coming through the earphones at that moment after you fall asleep, you don't hear it, but the subconscious mind is hearing it and downloading it in a state of theta. So the first way of changing a belief system is to get into theta. And this is called self-hypnosis. Put the earphones on, play the

program, programs for health, happiness, love, joy, whatever. And just go to sleep, which is really cool because you don't have any, there's no studying. You just play the program. I mean, so you're saying when we're tired, so that's, I guess, last thing at night, maybe first thing in the morning as well. Same thing, but it's a little harder to judge

when you're coming awake rather than when you're going to sleep. Got it. So the nighttime, just before you go to bed, a really important part of the day where you can, I guess, consciously make a decision to reprogram your subconscious mind. Yeah. What does this look like? Is this self-recordings that people make?

Is this, I don't know't know, for example, are there hypnosis programs that they download? Or sometimes people will fall asleep to conversations like these. So help me understand, help us all understand. Is it something specific or are all of these things helpful? All these things are helpful, but the most specific ones are when you put in a program that you specifically want to be true in your life. You're not having good relationships. Well, these programs are available all like bookstores and online. They're called self-help programs, basically. And I say, well, you can get them for anything, whether it's job related, relationship related, you pick out the one you want. And then I say, just play this.

And the point is, the moment you're falling asleep, the only part of you that is hearing that program is the subconscious because that's how it works in Theta. So you can download, it's called self-hypnosis, and that's how you can do it. That's number one. I'm talking about natural, in a natural child, Theta is the present program for his first seven years.

It's predominantly that. So they're in theta, so they're absorbing everything. But when we become adults, we're not in theta, apart from at specific times. But you can still learn. You learn how to drive a car after age seven. You learned a lot of playing an instrument after you're age seven. So that's not hypnosis, though, is it? So method one is hypnosis, but it sounds like there's

other methods as well to change the programs. After age seven, the second way that you put programs in is doing something that you practice and repeat, practice and repeat. Habituation, you make a habit by practicing it. And so you don't know how to play an instrument, you practice, you practice, you practice, you finally get it. You don't have to practice anymore. You can just pick up the instrument and play it or driving a car. You don't have to worry about all the details. The first time you got in the car was, oh my God, there are mirrors, windows, gauges, pedals, you know, paying all the, so many things you have to pay attention to. Today, you get in the car, you put the key and you start it up

and you're thinking about where you're going. Why? The rest of the driving is habit. You don't have to think about all those things. It's automatically programmed. So habituation is the second form. I love that. You know, I just want to share an analogy from golf here, if you don't mind, because I'd be very interested in your perspective on this.

I used to read a lot about choking, you know, when top sports people would choke. And, you know, there's an example of a golfer called Rory McIlroy, who he was leading the Masters Golf Tournament a few years back. He had a big lead. And this is just one example. I'm not having a go at Rory. This is common in all sports where people almost self-implode. And for a few holes, he could barely swing the golf club.

What was really interesting is, as always, sort of reading a lot about it, trying to figure out what's going on here. It's this conscious subconscious, again, where he knows how to drive the golf ball, you know, better than most people on the planet. So he's playing usually from his subconscious, the patterns around, he knows how to shake the ball right to left, left to right, whatever. but in that moment where it's like oh man i'm leading the masters i need to be really careful now he's trying to think you know well certainly this is what people say i don't know what was in his mind but you're almost overthinking you're now trying to control something that you could naturally do as you say driving yeah if you were thinking about when do

i put the clutch down or what timing is it with the accelerator you know if you if you drive a manual it's it's the same kind of thing isn't it absolutely but in fact really when when he's playing the game he's playing it in the conscious mind in the sense that he has a vision i'm gonna hit this ball and it's gonna to go into that hole over there. Very important because there's a destination and there's a means to that destination. It turns out, and this is really most important, is if you focus on the destination and not on the means,

let the system, which is so powerful, it will get there without you telling it how to get there but when you start to interfere and say okay now i got to make sure i swing it right my head's level my grip is right and all of a sudden you're putting all those details and it's like no don't focus on the details you forgot what the end was the end was the ball is supposed to go over there and so that starts to come in because now you're trying to control everything with this manual control.

And it's like, no, you don't have to have the manual control. Matter of fact, that gets in the way. The body knows what you want. You don't have to tell it how to get there. That's a big issue in our lives because I want to be successful. How? Oh, I got to do this. I got to do this. And I

say, oh, you're planning all these things. And your conscious mind is not even any, the subconscious a million times more powerful, the computer than the conscious mind. So I say, you're going to take this little small conscious mind and try to run the bigger computer. It's like, that doesn't work. small conscious mind and try to run the bigger computer. It's like, that doesn't work. Let go of the control. And this is the whole thing. I mean, it's a, I just came to my mind, a lot of people say, let go, let God or something like there's some phrase that people always say. And I go, well, that's actually the way to do it. Focus on what you want, but don't try and tell the universe how it's going to happen. Don't tell them that I'm going to do this and this is going to happen. I go, no, you just focus on what you want. The intelligence of the supercomputer, the subconscious supercomputer, it won't handle it unless you put your hands into the machine.

I said, keep your hands on the machine. Focus on where that ball is going to go. I mean, he already practiced. Remember, I said, we did the habit. We did the practice, whether you're driving a car or hitting the golf ball, practice, practice. Yeah. So it starts off in conscious and then becomes subconscious. I think people can all resonate with that, whether it's a sport or a musical instrument, right? Same kind of thing. So again, it's not that hard to believe that if you practice the patterns that you want, after a while, they're going to happen automatically. This is exactly what it's all about.

You don't think about the details of driving when you're driving. You know, they just automatically... You could have conversation, you could be off in thought, and you're still driving the car. So what's an example of... You know, we mentioned the first method is hypnosis. Then the second one is habituation. The second one is habituation and repetition and practice.

So do you have any examples of things that people can practice, can do and go, right, I'm going to practice this so that I start to change my subconscious behaviors? Well, this is exactly true. You know, what's interesting is actors that are really good have a character. They read the character, they learn the lines, but they have to act like a character. Okay. It's not just reading the words. You get someone like Renee Zellweger and she did the, her, what, the diary or something. And it's interesting because the character is 40 pounds heavier than Renee. And when she got into character, guess what? She gained 40 pounds. Her conscious, you know,

the program just, okay, I'm 40 pounds. When she got finished playing the character, then the 40 pounds disappeared. As long as she was in the character, she became the character. Dustin Hoffman, one of the great actors, was playing Willie Loman in Death of a Salesman, a very depressive character. And he was brilliant at it, except that he had to check out of the theater and go into a hospital, a neurological hospital, because he became so depressed because he took on the character of this person. And what I'm trying to say is who you think you are is what you, you know, you could get there.

But now the problem is who do you think you are? And I go, well, that's part of the programming. When we grow up, here's the biggest problem in programming, I'll tell you right now. Parents act as coaches for their kids. I go, what does that mean? I say, well, let's say a kid on a sports team isn't doing well. The coach doesn't say, oh, please try harder. No, he says, that's not good enough.

Who do you think you are? You don't deserve to be on this team. But this kid is older and conscious and aware. When the coach is saying that, the coach is trying to say, do better. That's what you should do. A child under seven is not in consciousness, but a child under seven is in record. So the parent's acting as a coach. That's not good enough.

Who do you think you are? You could do better than this. I say, the child under seven is, I'm not smart enough. I'm not deserving. I'm not good enough. That's a program, okay? They didn't understand the meaning of the parent under seven because consciousness was not that function of the brain at that time.

Just record. And I say, well, this is where the problems come from in our lives because parents want to help us, so they figure if they needle you, stick you, that you're going to do better without recognizing. If the child's under seven, they don't have any you, that you're going to do better without recognizing if the child's under seven, they don't have any comprehension of what you're saying, but they are recording.

And then you'd say, well, then 95% of my life is coming from what? Not smart enough, not good enough, not deserving. And if that's the program that's running, then the behavior will manifest that program. Not good enough, not smart enough, not healthy, whatever it is. And so we have to recognize we become these programs. And if you want to change, that's when I say, oh, the new age. I always laugh about it.

It's called fake it till you make it. I say, what does that mean? I say, well, you're not a happy person. I go, so what? I say, then all day long, whenever you can remember, you just say, I am happy. I am happy. No matter how miserable you are, you just keep repeating it because repeating is habituation. Practice, repeat, repeat.

And then one day you wake up and guess what? You're happy. Why? Because once that program is installed, then the expression of that subconscious will manifest that program. expression of that subconscious will manifest that program. I noticed that when you walked into the studio, two floors down, I don't know, maybe 45 minutes ago, something like that. You walked in with a smile. We were chatting. And then you paused to, it felt like you were intentionally spreading joy, love, happiness. You made some

really nice, meaningful comments to the two receptionists, which put a smile on their face, and then you walked on with me. Yes. Is that what you're talking about? An intentional practice where you act in the manner, you act as the person you want to become? Almost like what you said about actors, right? You're trying to, and I know from your history that you weren't always this way. No.

Right? So this has been a change and maybe later on we can talk about that. But you've almost taken on the role of an actor, but that actor isn't actually someone foreign to you. That actor probably is who you innately are and who you are innately meant to be. That I have become. That you've become. Okay. That was it. Because I started to recognize

what I'm putting out is coming back. If I'm going to put out, you know, anger or something, I'm going to receive something that resonates with anger. I'm not going to, if I'm going to put out anger or something, I'm going to receive something that resonates with anger. If I'm angry, I'm not going to activate a happy person, but I will activate somebody who will respond to anger. It's called resonance. And what you put out will return to you what you put out. What happens though, Bruce, if you are giving off that energy of happiness and joy to someone,

and for whatever reason, they don't want to hear it. Like they're being run by a different subconscious pattern. People aren't nice to me. I'm not worthy of a nice comment or whatever it might be. And they aren't able to accept the joy and the smiles that you're putting out. Presumably, does that happen from time to time? Sometimes, but you know what the most interesting thing is? People want to be recognized at some point.

You know, like in the city, everybody walks, eyes on the street, or eyes not looking at other people and stuff like that. So the other people don't exist. But I noticed when I was living in New York that if I just walked down the street and I could catch somebody's eyes and I'd give them a smile, that's all I'd do is just look at them with a smile. All of a sudden, they would just make this response that somebody recognized them as being this person. And that is what, you know, in a world where nobody recognizes you, all of a sudden somebody looks at you and smiles.

It's like, it's contagious. They start to smile all of a sudden. And this is it because we've been programmed, you know, stay away or, you know, don't engage and all that. And I go, well, that's where the big problem comes from because when people are not part of a community, then they don't participate as a community at that point.

They're on their own. And people just want to be acknowledged. And rarely, rarely does anybody resist hearing that, oh, have a wonderful day and something like that from meaning, not just flat words, have a wonderful day. No, meaning it. And so, again, and this is part of the physics quantum physics everything is vibration you put out a good vibration the only thing that responds to a good vibration is a good vibration bad vibrations are

on a different frequency they don't mix each other you put out a vibration you're going to get back what that vibration is it's called resonance and so if You put out a vibration, you're going to get back what that vibration is. It's called resonance. And so if you're an unhappy person and you're broadcasting that, the only person that will be affected by that unhappiness is somebody else is unhappy because they're resonating from the same thing. So all of a sudden I realized as I started to change, it's like, be happy. Just be happy. And it's like people want to be happy. That's an innate,

that's like a child. Children are born in love. And then they acquire whatever the behavior is from their parents and stuff like that. But innately, innately a child is recognizing love, because love means safety. You know, repetition is so powerful, isn't it? We become what we repeat, ultimately. And one of the practices that I have done very, very consistently for, I don't know, maybe five years now that I feel most of the time has become automatic now is if I was ever getting frustrated or feeling emotional or frustrated by the action of someone else, let's say, I would always use it as a mirror. I'd sort of, ideally in the moment, but sometimes if you're not able to in the moment, later that day go, oh, you got triggered there. You felt stressed by that. You were frustrated. What was that bringing up in you? And then just instead of looking for the world outside to give you the answers, try and find the answers yourself and go, okay, and how can you reframe

that? You know, if you were that other person, you'd be acting in exactly the same way, right? So how can you have compassion for that person, as well as work on yourself? And I feel it's a very simple practice that only takes a few minutes each day. And then you get to a point where you're like, I'm hardly ever, I'm certainly not perfect. So it does happen. But it happens a lot less. I'm hardly ever now reacting to other people when people are behaving in a way that in the past I may not have liked. I feel now that my default mode of being is compassion and going,

oh yeah, well, that's interesting. Oh, isn't it interesting? They've got a completely different perspective on the world to I do, rather than trying to defend a belief system and an identity. So yes, I've done other things like heal trauma and all kinds of other things which we can maybe talk about. But I really do feel that it's that regular, diligent practice, catching yourself when you haven't got it right,

catching yourself when you do get it right, being compassionate to yourself either way, and then you actually become a new person. I agree 100% on that. And I'll give you a very important fact. I work in belief change programs with people. And when we have people test for the belief, I love myself, 80 to 90% of every audience will not test positive to I love myself.

And I go, where the hell did this come from? Well, the first thing is this, being criticized as a child because you downloaded the criticism. Not good enough, not smart enough, not lovable, whatever. The parents were trying to help you get better. They made it worse because they put those programs in. I started to recognize, oh, my God, people, if you can't love yourself, then you can't accept love. That's the other very important thing. Because if someone says they love you and you have a mind, I'm not lovable,

then you look at them and go, well, obviously you have no quality control. I know I'm not lovable. What are you saying? And you will push people away and then nobody will be there. And then guess what? You say, see, I'm not lovable. Nobody's here. But you didn't realize you were responding to that.

It was a wake-up call to myself when I realized I was not loving myself. And when you're not loving yourself, you will sabotage yourself all the time because then you'll manifest the truth. See, I'm not lovable. Nobody's here. You didn't realize you chased them away. Now they're not here. I changed that.

And that was the most critical moment. Because if I love myself, then I'm happy with myself. And a lot of people are not happy with themselves. And when somebody else is unhappy, then they're unhappy, man, that's the resonance that pushes them to stay in that place. Remember, you'll attract whatever you're sending out. And when I changed that, my life changed. My life was so profoundly changed by that. Because I can maintain, as you said, how can you maintain happiness when other people around you are not in happiness? And the answer is because then you don't connect with them.

They can say their words or anything, but it has no connection with you because it doesn't stimulate unhappiness in me. I'm happy. So all of a sudden it's that they're unhappy. I can't resonate with that because they'll send that unhappy vibe and I have no receptor for unhappy. So all of a sudden it's like I could walk through the world of people that are not unhappy, but it doesn't come off on me at all. I don't, you know, I could continue walking.

But then what will happen is if I'm happy, then those other people that will see that want to participate. As I said, people want to be happy. People want to be loved. And that's a drive. And yet our programming behavior takes that out of us. And then we start resonating with the negative programs. And we attract people that have the same kind of negative issues and then we're surrounded by this is not helping me all these people around here and i change and then all of a sudden it's like look who's around me all these wonderful people how'd that happen i go because now we resonate together and the ones that are unhappy they don't

want to be around me because I don't feed their unhappiness with my unhappiness. I don't feed them. And so they don't get what they're looking for if they're coming toward me with that. I guess one way that people can catch and become aware of their unconscious patterns is to ask themselves, how do you talk to yourself? What do you say when something doesn't quite go right? Do you, you know, do you say you stupid thing, you silly idiot, you loser, you know, whatever it might be. And I say this, you know, admitting that for much of my life, I used to say those things to myself. But the key thing being, I used to, I don't anymore. I cannot remember the last time I was harsh to myself.

Genuinely anymore. And it's, yeah, you can't, you know, I think the way I put it in my last book was you, it is simply impossible to achieve long-term health and happiness if you hate yourself. A hundred percent. This is so important because this, that was, I have a memory of a point in my life where that changed just like,

boom, just like somebody turned the switch. Because I was on the edge of, I could have been diagnosed as manic depressive. Well, it happened most of the time, but once it started going wrong, then it was like, this is wrong, and then I'd give myself the abuse verbally. Oh, you're stupid. You're not good enough. What's wrong with you, Lipton? And I'd be doing that. And I was in my lab, and I just spent a procedure that took about an hour to prepare for

the experiment. And if you mess it up just a little bit, you have to start all over again. The third time that day, I messed it all up. And now I'm really upset. I spent the whole damn day doing this. It didn't work. And then I'm getting, oh, you idiot, you can't do anything right. And I was giving myself like a parent on my shoulder, telling me where that's not good enough. And I'll never forget. I was alone in the lab. And I hear this voice. There's nobody there.

I hear this voice like, you know, and the voice says, don't you have anything better to do than to listen to this crap? I looked around. I started to laugh because I said, sure, I'd rather go to a movie. So there was a newspaper. I picked up the paper. I found a movie, went off to the theater. Guess what? That whole dialogue ended instantly. I had a choice. That's what it was saying. I have a choice. Do you want to continue this conversation or do you want to do something else? That was the moment of empowerment that was so great because it said, stop, stop, do something else, get out of here. And, and the next time I started to get a little depressed, first thing that came back was the humor of that. And I'd

laugh and I go, okay, I'll do something else. After three or four times, guess what? I've never been depressed since that time. Never. Why? It just doesn't hold in my mind. If a depression, you know, like a negative thing starts happening, I don't sit there and play it over and over and over again, which makes you go downhill, downhill. I just, oh, I don't, I have a choice. It's a choice. Do I want to listen to this stuff or do I want to do something else? You know, Bruce, this is something that I think is so important because so many people do struggle

with negative thought patterns and they then get stuck in a vicious negative cycle. And you've used to explain how you were there. Again, the key thing being were there. Yes. But many people feel stuck, right? And are you able to share anything that people may find helpful?

I know we're talking about reprogramming. We've mentioned two of the three methods so far. Yeah. Number one, hypnosis. Number two, repetition and changing those habits. We'll get to the third one shortly. But in terms of, I don't know if this is a good point or not

for you to share anything practical when someone is really, really struggling. Before we get back to this week's episode, I just wanted to let you know that I am doing my very first National UK Theatre Tour. I am planning a really special evening where I share how you can break free from the habits that are holding you back and make meaningful changes in your life that truly last. It is called the Thrive Tour. Be the architect of your health and happiness.

So many people tell me that health feels really complicated, but it really doesn't need to be. In my live event, I'm going to simplify health. And together, we're going to learn the skill of happiness, the secrets to optimal health, how to break free from the habits that are holding you back in your life. And I'm going to teach you how to make changes that actually last. Sound good? All you have to do is go to drchatterjee.com forward slash tour, and I can't wait to see you there. This episode is also brought to you by the Three Question Journal, the journal that I designed and created in partnership with Intelligent Change. Now,

journaling is something that I've been recommending to my patients for years. It can help improve sleep, lead to better decision making, and reduce symptoms of anxiety and depression. It's also been shown to decrease emotional stress, make it easier to turn new behaviours into long-term habits, and improve our relationships. There are, of course, many different ways to journal. And as with most things it's important that you find the method that works best for you one method that you may want to consider is the one that i outline in the three question journal in it you will find a really simple and structured way of answering the three most impactful questions i believe that we can all ask ourselves every morning and every evening.

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Well, I guess it was as simple as I just said. Right. If you can get consciousness to step in for one second and say, do you want to do this? That's all you need to have that question. Do you want to do this? And if the answer is no, then all of a sudden, guess what? It was a moment of choice. Go do something else. Just do something else.

So I guess the lesson is that we've always got a choice over our thoughts. So what we're trying to help people do is cultivate that self-awareness first of all. Oh man, there's that record playing. Why don't I take that record off and put a new one on? You know, you say, well, that sounds simple. I say, but that's what it is. You know, let's not make complexity out of this.

A thought is something you can perpetuate. You can keep these thoughts going. And that's the unfortunate part, because if your programming doesn't give you really positive thoughts, once these negative thoughts keep running, they just run on like that record just keeps playing and playing, and it'll take you downhill all the time. And as you just said, how simple is it? Stop. I remember there was a show, I just said, how simple is it? Stop. I remember there was a show, Bob Newhart, the comedian, and he was a psychologist.

And somebody started, you know, in his office, a patient. And then he just looked at me and said, stop that. Stop that. And that was actually what the whole idea was. Stop it. But we have a tendency just to keep the record going. Keep the record going. And I going, keep the record going. I say, is this record going to take you up?

I say, hell no, this is a downhill record. When's it going to get better? It's not going to get better. So what are you going to do? Stop. Just stop. Bob Newhart, just stop. Yeah, and this idea that the first seven years of our life are crucial.

Yes. Okay. But presumably, even if we've made an active decision to change and go, okay, all right, Bruce, all right, Rangan, I'm hearing you guys. I am being driven by my unconscious patterns. I'm going to get with the program and start changing this. What I'm thinking about is, if you're still being exposed to ideas and negative thoughts and fear-based messaging,

it's going to make it harder for you, presumably, to make those changes. And I guess where I'm coming at this from is a couple of things. One is, I don't watch the news anymore. I haven't done for many years. Smart, smart. And I know to some people, that's a very controversial idea.

What does it mean to be an informed citizen of the world? I kind of, you know, I welcome that discussion at some point if someone wants to have it. But I genuinely don't see how my life is enhanced in any way by watching the news. It doesn't make you feel good. It doesn't help you be more loving, more collaborative. It's intentionally, and I don't mean this necessarily in a manipulative way, but just by virtue of the fact that it's competing with other news channels,

they've got to make it scarier, they've got to make it more fear-based to grab your attention. Yes. Right, so the news is one thing which I think many people are addicted to watching the news. They watch it and consume it regularly,

don't realize what it's doing for their passing. I'd welcome your view on that. And then I guess the follow-on on that for me also is that if we're constantly consuming information from outside news, social media, whatever it might be, it's kind of hard to know who we are. Like, what do we think? Is the way we think really us? Or is it simply a reflection of what we've been consuming? Well, basically, let's take one step back, because here's a very important part.

People say it, but most people don't understand it, but from a biomedical physics point of view, life is energy. Energy in our body is what fuels us, keeps us moving. And I talk to people, I say, you know, how much of your energy are you giving away every day? And I say, what do you mean? I say, you're putting out energy. Are you getting anything back from this? Or are you making any changes out there with your energy? You can go into a bar, you can have a political argument with somebody, get heated up, which is wasting energy, get all riled up and you got this argument, and then you walk out of the bar and say, what changed?

Did you change anything here? And I go, absolutely not. I say, did you get heated up? Yeah. Did you spend all that energy? Yeah. Did you get anything out of it? Absolutely not. I come up with the idea of, you know, we have a checkbook with our accounts in the bank. I said, money in the bank is energy. That's what it is that you can do things with. I said, you don't just write checks for nothing.

You don't give, oh, wow, what a nice smile you have. Here's $50 for you or 50 pounds or whatever. And I go, you don't just pass out this money. I say, why not? Because you know, if you write this check, you're taking it out of your resource and you're not getting anything from it. I said, what if I gave you an energy checkbook? I said, what does that mean? I said, well, if you're going to use your life energy and you're going to write a check here, are you getting anything back from that energy you just spent? I say, can you change something? No. Then why the hell are you putting your energy into it? You know, I put my energy into things that enhance my life or enhance the life of my community.

That's where I put my energy and why? Because I'm giving me something productive with my energy. Most people waste their energy with arguments and all kinds of stuff like that. You're not changing anything. You're just using your life because energy is life. And so it's basically, I said, well, if I give you that energy checkbook, I bet you'd be very much more cautious about how you're using your life energy during the day. Because if you're just wasting it, you didn't get nothing out of it. You changed nothing. So that's how I look at it. I say, if I'm going to put my time into this, do I get something or does my community get something?

If not, I disconnect. Why? Because what am I going to – that's my life. Why do I want to give energy to this when I have no influence over what's going to happen? You can get all the political arguments you want. You're not going to change politics. You know, you can watch the news and that's the part because then you get caught up in the story. And I say, yeah, you're caught up in a story. What can you change here? Nothing. Why are you getting caught up in the story? Because you have no influence over the story story except they can eat your energy up and you can't and there's nothing that that energy that you just use will do to

help any of that stuff you just saw on that news and people if they actually had to write a check for spending their life energy all of a sudden you're gonna see how quickly lives are going to improve because what they're going to do is now keep that energy for their life instead of giving it away yeah i want to talk about relationships bruce we've spoken a little bit about how our subconscious programming can negatively impact our health and our mood and our, I guess, our day-to-day sense of well-being, our relationships with other people are a huge source of well-being. They're a huge source of stress, but they can also be a huge stress reliever if we have these close nourishing relationships. And where in your view do these unconscious patterns play out in our relationships with other people?

Oh, well, I could give you the best example, me. Because I said, look, you get programmed in that first seven years. And I said, how do you get programmed? You watch your parents, family, community. So in that seven years, how do I know about relationships? Well, I watch my mother and father because that's the example of relationships that I'm downloading. Well, they were dysfunctional. And I say, so what was the result? I acquired a dysfunctional understanding about relationships by observing them and downloading those kinds of programs. For 40-plus years, I could never get a relationship off the ground. Why? Because if I start all of a sudden playing these programs,

then potential relationships would disappear because nobody wanted to do that. You know, my parents didn't want to do that, but they did it, but I downloaded it. And that's when I started to realize, my God, I have to change this whole thing about relationships. my God, I have to change this whole thing about relationships. And I rewrote this, my own programming to understand, look, what I downloaded from my family, this is not going to get me what I want in this life. And it comes down, what do I want?

Oh, now I have an idea of what I can program. And the joy about this is I didn't have any really good relationships. I met my partner now, Margaret, when I was 50 years old. And guess what? We've been on a relationship over 25 years of a honeymoon. A honeymoon. 25 years, wake up every day, go, oh, my God, I'm still here. Here's my beautiful partner. And we share and we love and we work together and we do all these things.

And it never would have happened because my programming from being in my family would never have provided a happy relationship with anybody. And it's interesting because I wrote the book called The Honeymoon Effect. I say, what's the honeymoon effect? I say, well, every day your life is blah, blah, blah, blah. Then you meet someone, you fall in love, and 24 hours later, it's like, oh, my God, life is beautiful. Everything is wonderful, the music, the food, even the job. It's just a crummy job. It doesn't bother me.

And I go, why? Because you're in love. And then I go, well, that's called the honeymoon. And then I say, but then here's a problem. I say, but the honeymoon is usually short-lived. It could be for some as short as a week or a month or a year. And then it wears out. And then you come back to regular life.

And I go, what's that all about? And the answer is simply this. Remember, we have a conscious creative mind with wishes and desires and a subconscious mind with program. Science has recognized when people fall in love, they stop thinking. And I said, what do you mean they stop thinking? They stay what is called mindful. They stay present. I go, why? You've been looking for this person your whole life. If you're thinking, you're disconnecting. So when you first fall in love, you stay present. You want to be there. You're taking in the love,

the joy. Everything is great. And I say, well, what does that mean? Well, if you stay in the conscious mind, then you're not playing the program. I go, oh, conscious mind's creative. I go, what happens if two people come together and are only playing creative? Well, then they create heaven on earth. And I said, but then why does it disappear? Because inevitably you start thinking again, because you have a job, responsibilities, whatever it is. And I say, the moment you start thinking, because you have a job, responsibilities, whatever it is. And I say the moment you start thinking, then the behavior that you're playing is not you. It's the program. And your partner that you fell in love with never saw your program because during the honeymoon you never played your programs.

And then all of a sudden you're thinking. Your partner comes in and asks you some little simple thing. And then you go blah, blah, blah. And your partner looks at you and goes, who are you? And you're going, sudden, you're thinking, your partner comes in and asks you some little simple thing, and then you go, blah, blah, blah. And your partner looks at you and goes, who are you? And you're going, like, what are you talking about? And the answer is, what happened? My loving, creative mind, conscious, was not engaged with my partner at that moment. My subconscious, what did I do?

I just played my father. My God. You know, that's like, my partner looks at me like, who are you? Where did that come from? And it's like, and then you got to remember, when you're playing your subconscious programs, you're the one that doesn't know where you're playing it. So it's like, what are you talking about? I say to her, she said, well, you said this. I said, that's not me. Yeah, but it wasn't me. It was a program. And when more programs come back into the relationship from both sides, we didn't get together on a honeymoon because of our programs. We got together

because of our conscious wishes and desires mind. But once the programs from our family history and all that starts to play into this thing, it disrupts the relationship. I love these examples. Let me just clarify one thing. So conscious mind, thinking mind, subconscious mind, these kind of pre-existing patterns and behaviors. Right. Now, I get it. When you're in love in the first few weeks, months, years, whatever,

of a relationship, everything's great, right? You don't see negative patterns. Maybe they're not there. Maybe you're just opting not to see them, right? So you're totally present. So when you're in that moment, you're in love, you're fully present. You're not being led by your subconscious patterns, then are you like your parents relationship? But you're not thinking too much either. What's going on there? When you're not thinking, that means your conscious mind is not looking inside. And if your conscious mind is now looking outside, it's engaging with the world. And I say, yeah, but what is the conscious mind? Wishes, desires, aspirations, what you want, creative.

Got it. So the conscious mind at that moment is engaging with the world. But when you've stopped being present and engaging with your partner in the world, and you go back to the job stresses and things, your conscious mind then goes inward. Is that right? That right. But then, well, who's controlling the behavior while you're having these thoughts? I go, that's when the subconscious kicks in and plays the program. But is that you? And I go, no, the subconscious is not you. The subconscious is the programming you downloaded. Yeah. And with relationships, I think this is a huge problem because I think many people jump from relationship to relationship thinking the problem was the other person. Exactly. Right now, of course,

sometimes a relationship is not meant to be there and it's probably not the right thing to continue, right? Yeah. I get that. Yeah. But a lot of the time, we go from relationship to relationship, trying to find the right person without realizing that everywhere you go, the same problem, the same behaviors are following you around. What's the pattern? And I think relationships is where this really plays out. I think if any of us think about niggles or disagreements we've had with our partners in the past, like most of the time, it's these unconscious patterns, isn't it? Not most of the time, virtually all of the time,

it's these unconscious patterns. And you can see it clearly in your partner, which parent they're playing out, but you probably can't see it as well in yourself. We go right back to the story, subconscious. You didn't even see you said that. That's the story. Like I said, Bill, you're just like your dad. And he denies that he's like his dad because when he plays those programs, he's the only one that can see it. So when we play subconscious programs, by definition, why are we playing these programs? The answer is because your conscious mind's engaged and it's not paying attention to what you just said. What's this third method of reprogramming

our subconscious minds? It's new. It's very new. There's an old saying, necessity is the mother of invention. And I say, well, what's the necessity? I say, human behavior, science recognizes the fact. Human behavior is precipitating what's the necessity I say human behavior of science is recognized as a fact human behavior is precipitating what's called the sixth mass extinction of life on this planet and the first thing it implies well there must have been five mass extinctions before and I go yes there was life was thriving on this planet five different times and something happened that upended the whole the whole planet to some degree. Some of the five times, 90% of life disappeared. The last mass extinction was 66 million years ago. That's when there were

dinosaurs here. Planet was flushed. There were forests and everything. It was just thriving. And a comet, big giant comet hit in Mexico, the Yucatan Peninsula. The comet was so big, it upended the web of life. And the web of life has a collapse. The dinosaurs, 75% of life disappeared, including all the dinosaurs disappeared. And then evolution, we started all over again. And today we're at a point where we're now losing species a thousand times faster than background. And it's estimated that human behavior is going to cause the loss of another one or two million species on this planet because we're not living in harmony with nature.

Okay, we're upsetting and balanced. We're facing this. So it's human behavior that's causing this problem. So it's interesting because we have to change our behavior faster we can't just keep on the same behavior because that's we're creating the problem with this behavior so i said well what happened a new form of psychology has come about called energy psychology it's not typical cognitive therapy where you talk about, oh, this person did that, my mom did this, my friend did that, and this is why I'm here. And you cry and you got tissues and you review your life. And I go, it works for some, but it's not that really good because when you do cognitive therapy, you were replaying all the problems that you had.

So you're just like pushing the button every time. Like, you know, that's why all the tissues are there at the, because you, you cry all over this. I say that the new version is called energy psychology. I don't have to go backwards to find out how I got a program. I have the program. I don't have to go back and say who, who created that program in me? What incidents created that? Who was responsible? That's more the cognitive end. And I go, it's irrelevant. Why? You have the program now. They're not here anymore. So do I have to go back? And the answer is no, you have to deal with the program. And I said, what's the program? Well, we talked about that. I said,

just look at your life, wherever you're struggling. It's not because the universe wants you to struggle. You're struggling because your program. So now this thing is, do I have to go back? I say, no, what is it you want versus what you have? And there's a process called super learning. And you go, what's super learning? Well, I can tell you some people how they go into a bookstore and they can move their finger down the page of a book. As fast as they move that finger down, just like, poom, like a second or two, they read every word on that page. That's super learning. You could read a book in 15 minutes or something like that. If you can engage the super learning process,

then you can get a reprogramming, not in days, weeks, or whatever. You can get a reprogramming of your programs in 15, 20 minutes. Walk away completely different after that and that's because we've got to change our behaviors really quickly in order to sustain us on this planet right now so energy psychology is a number of modalities that engage the super learning process and in the in that process then you can rewrite a program and walk away 15, 20 minutes later with a different life

experience. It's like miracle magic I've experienced. I wouldn't have been able to write my books if I didn't do a reprogram in my subconscious. And all of a sudden I said, well, where are these? Let me just help people very quickly. My website is simple, brucelipton.com, okay? On there, I have a description of about 25 different energy psychology modalities, a little description and a website. And if you're interested, then just look these up. And if you find one that appeals to you, then check out their website and see what's going on.

But to me, having experiences, having understanding all of this, and then experiencing is like, oh, my God, to me, that's like a miracle in today's world. Because habituation, repeating things, it takes many times to repeat, repeat, repeat, or even the earphones on at night, self-hypnosis, because theta is only a short period.

You have to repeat that overnight, overnight, you know, for many times. Energy psychology, you can have an experience and walk away 15, 20 minutes later. Well, I definitely would love to learn more about these different energy psychology modalities. As you were describing the benefits and that you can potentially reprogram patterns in 15-20 minutes. Yes. What I like about that, because we haven't really mentioned specifically trauma yet by name. And there are clearly a lot of therapies where people can go back in and look at their childhood trauma, their previous experiences,

and they can try and go in and change them. Yes. Now, on a personal note, the one that I found life-changing was something called IFS, Internal Family Systems. I'm not sure if you're familiar with it or not. No, I'm not. Dr. Richard Schwartz.

What I love about it is that you can go back into a childhood moment in this sort of process with the IFS therapist, and you can literally rewrite the script in that moment. You go back in, let's say as your 40-year-old self, you go back to an instant that you can remember when you were seven. And you then go in and reframe the entire thing. Like it's your 40-year-old self talking to your six-year-old self, understanding the situation, explaining it from both sides. And they've got some really good research on this. And it's when you go to sleep, a new memory gets laid down.

And I've experienced this whereby, instead of keep talking about it, keep talking about it, keep talking about it, oh, that's what happened, that's what happened. Actually, you can go back in, almost write a new script about what was a traumatic experience. And then you just start playing out a new pattern because you've rewritten that script. And I appreciate it may not be the same thing as energy psychology. I would list it as energy psychology. Would you? Yeah, because it's not going through that repetition of

let's go over and over and over again and try to talk you out of it. Do you think people can get locked sometimes in a pattern of looking at their trauma and just stay looking and say, I'm not criticizing anyone for that. I just wonder sometimes, can we stay there too long? Yeah, because when you go back and you play it over and over again, you're just repeating the same trauma over and over and over again. So you're making a habit to continue the trauma by experiencing it again and again and again. You're, you know, just repetition. That's what we talked about, habituation. Now you're just taking an old pattern and habituating it to even make it stronger than

it was before. So yeah, there's so many different ways. So like the program you just said, these are ways that how can I shortcut the system? And how can I get in touch with that subconscious to do this? And this is really, we want to fix ourselves, but we always think it will change the world. The world is causing the problem. Look, you wake up in the morning, you wake up and say,

today I'm going to get healthier. Today I'm going to find that relationship or a better job. And you go out all day and you come home at night and it didn't work. And I said, well, what does the average person think about in that regard? They got up in the morning today, I'm going to be successful. They came home not being successful. I said, what do they think about at that regard. They got up in the morning today, I'm going to be successful. They came home not being successful. I said, what do they think about at that moment? They go, oh man, well, that person interfered with me and this thing interfered and that thing happened. And all of a sudden, what are they saying? I'm a victim of these things out there that

interfere with my destination. And then I go, well, here's the joke part. You didn't realize all day long you were playing the programs that manifested those things all day long. So that disempowers us because I'm not responsible for this problem. All these other people are responsible for this problem because you did not see your own participation in this thing. What can we do as parents in those first seven years of life? If we've struggled, if we've overcome them, if we've tried to reprogram, maybe we've successfully reprogrammed. But of course, all parents would try their best to ensure or increase the likelihood that their kids don't have to go through the same struggles.

Have you got any advice for parents of young kids? Simple. They're downloading whatever you tell them. If you start telling them the story that you want them to be, you're smart, you're intelligent, you're beautiful, you're powerful. Repeating this because remember, they're intelligent, you're beautiful, you're powerful. Repeating this, because remember, they're downloading these behaviors, okay? And so when they are operating 95% of their life and they're defaulting to these subconscious programs, what are these programs? I'm powerful, I'm capable, I can do anything, I'm smart, because most of us are defaulting to the criticisms.

Not good enough, who do you think you are? You don't deserve this. I go, well, both situations are right. Whatever program you put in, you're gonna manifest. So if I'm gonna be a parent, then I want my child to start off with, we love you, you are a one, giving every positive statement to that child

as an infant, even just after they're born. And I go, people think, oh, they start talking baby talk. I say, this kid is downloading your words right now because the subconscious is a download. And I say, so what are you saying to this child? And that becomes critical because then that, whatever you're programming at this point, will activate 95% of the life of that child later. And if the child's gone past seven, because of course these seven years are critical. Yeah.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, so let me just ask the question. Is it still worth changing these patterns and trying to help them download the same programs? Let's say they're eight, nine, ten. Let's say they're teenagers. If you've now hearing this conversation and you thought, you know what?

When my kids were young, I had all the negative self-talk. I kept calling myself a loser. They probably picked that up from me. I don't want to feel guilt. There's no point feeling guilt and beating yourself up about that. Can they still change it even if their kids are above the age of seven? Remember, the second way of change was habituation.

So it doesn't make any difference what age they are at that point. If you habituate a new behavior then that will download it takes a little longer but you know then before age seven but it's still how you put a program in habit replay you know repeating and repeating this it becomes habit at that point what do you do on a daily basis bruce? Are there any routines, any practices that you do to keep yourself in this happy, contented, creative mode? I wake up in love. I just wake up in love. The rest of the day flows so beautifully. There's no practices anymore for myself. Why? day flows so beautifully. There's no practices anymore for myself. Why? I put those programs in.

They run automatically. I don't have to even practice it because practicing means I don't have the program and I want to make the program. But if you already have the program, then you don't have to do the practice. And all of a sudden, you just naturally wake up. You're in love. You naturally are helping your partner, your community, your friends, you're just, it's natural, so it's not like, let me work on this, let me, let me be, you know, let me be more loving to my partner, it's like, I don't have to be more loving to my partner, we're already fully in love, you know, it's like, you know, people say, I love, you know, I love you more, so I said, no, I always tell my wife, how much love? Full amount. It's like the gas tank.

How much love? Oh, I'm filled up with love. You can't put any more love in there. It's already filled up. It's already there. And so practice by definition means something's not working and you want to engage yourself to make it work and then you do a practice. But what if you did the programming already?

You know, when I got with my partner, Margaret, I still had programs from my parents that weren't any good. But she knew about programming. I know about programming. And this is the important part because if a couple doesn't know about programming, then when some behavior shows up unexpectedly, it's like, oh, who are you? What's this all about? It's like, oh, who are you? What's this all about? But if you already know that programs exist and a bad program comes up, it doesn't go into an argument.

It can go into a discussion. Do you want to have this program? And then I would say, what program? Oh, you didn't see what you just said or did? And it's like, oh. And I say, well, let's change the program. And then we change the program. So what do you do? Over a period of time, you edit these programs.

And when it gets to the point of it's editing, then do I have to practice more editing? I go, no, I changed these programs already. Here's a simple point. I said the conscious mind is wishes and desires. The subconscious mind is program, yes. What if you took your wishes and desires and put them in as programs?

Then the answer is what? Whether you're conscious or whether you're subconscious, you're still going to the same destination. And that's the secret part. This is not a lifelong struggle. Once the programs are set, you don't have to work on it anymore. It's already done. So it's not like, I got to do this every day. I go, no, if it's a program, you will to do this every day. I go, no, once you,

if it's programmed, you will automatically do it every day without even thinking you're doing it. So powerful. I've really, really enjoyed this conversation. Bruce, this podcast is called Feel Better, Live More. When we feel better in ourselves, we get more out of our lives. And you've beautifully made the case that if we can change these unconscious programs intentionally, we can absolutely get more out of our lives. I wonder, right at the end of this conversation that I've thoroughly enjoyed, have you got any final words, final thoughts, final bits of advice to share with people to help, I guess, improve the way that they feel? Well, yeah, it's just basically simply this is that we are creators. We came here to create. But if you've been programmed, then you're not creating the program is creating.

And the idea is if you can then use your creation to put the program in that you want then you can manifest what you want in this life that's basically what it is and uh and the idea is what is it we're really looking for you know as i said a lot of people give me the money give me the money i go the money you think is going to make you happy and i'm going to say look there are a lot of rich people are the unhappiest people I've ever seen in my life and so it's not that but we've been somehow programmed the competition get this you'll have this you're going to be better and some of the poorest people are some of the happiest people I've ever seen and then all of a sudden it starts to realize then happiness is not a physical thing I need to get things to be happy. And I just have to say, I know life from both sides.

My first formative years, I was programmed to be a scientist. I was programmed to be educated. That was my family, just like in your family. Go ahead, get this education. And I got this education. I didn't get programmed how to be a happy person. I didn't get programmed how to be a good partner. That was not part of the program. And so I failed at that end. But now I've compensated for that. And the absolute truth is, and I believe this with the most certainty, that people think you die and then you can go to heaven if you did well.

And I say, boy, you missed it because this to me is heaven. I say, why is this heaven? I say, because this you missed it because this to me is heaven. I say, why is this heaven? I say, because this is where you came to create. We're creating. And unfortunately, we've been programmed to create stuff that we don't even like. So then we're not creators. We're just playing the program. And if you understand it, then don't waste this life because heaven on earth is a reality. This is. And I didn't know it for 40 years, but I live this every minute now. And it was interesting.

My mother married when she was older, remarried. And she married this guy that I thought he was a curmudgeon. And he was just somebody I didn't even really want to be around, but my mother was happy, fine. But the story about it that was so neat is that he lived to 97, and he had cancer, and my mother took care of him at home, and the last week of his life, he essentially wasn't even there. He was just in a more like a coma kind of thing,

and then two days before he died, his eyes opened up, and he was just in a more like a coma kind of thing and then two days before he died his eyes opened up and he was there he was there and he said to her i didn't have any fun and i thought oh my god 97 years old he's gonna die in a couple of days and it just dawned on him he didn't have any fun and i, I'm not going out that way. I'm going out and saying, my God, thank you for this opportunity to be here. Well, we'll save that for a part two, Bruce. I mean, next time you're in the UK, I'd love to do a part two and delve deeper. But thank you so much for your work.

Thank you for coming on the show. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much because you're helping me. You're helping me do what? I want people to wake up and realize the creative nature of love, health, harmony, heaven on earth. Because that is available and yet we struggle and there's no reason for this. Thank you. Thank you.

Really hope you enjoyed that conversation. As always, do have a think about one thing that you can take away and start applying into your own life. Thank you so much for listening. Have a wonderful week. And always remember, you are the architect of your own health. Making lifestyle changes always worth it. Because when you feel better, you live more.