Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - Letting Go of Perfection: The Power of Process, Presence & Planning with Eliud Kipchoge #567

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

When life doesn’t unfold the way we hoped, it can be tempting to see that as failure. But what if it was those moments that actually shape us the most? This week, I’m delighted to welcome Eliud Kipchoge back to the show for a second incredible conversation - recorded just days after he completed the 2025 London Marathon. Eliud is a Kenyan athlete who is widely regarded as the greatest marathon runner of all time. He has won two successive Olympic marathons and 10 major titles. And of course, he’s the only athlete to have ever run a marathon in under two hours, which he did back in 2019 in Vienna as part of the 1:59 challenge. But as you’ll hear in this conversation, his wisdom goes far beyond running as Eliud shares the life lessons that have shaped his journey - not just as an athlete, but as a human being. You’ll also hear: Why Eliud believes discipline is what creates freedom - and how keeping promises to yourself builds the self-trust needed to face life’s hardest moments Why failure is not the opposite of success, but, instead, the soil where wisdom grows How running has become a metaphor for life - with its highs, lows, unexpected challenges and the need to keep moving forward How Eliud not being able to finish his last Olympic marathon taught him more than any victory ever could The true power of community, humility, and purpose - and why Eliud still cleans toilets at his training camp despite being a global icon How planning, consistency and positive thinking guide his life - and why he believes ego is something we must all learn to let go of Throughout our conversation, Eliud speaks with warmth, humility and compassion. He challenges the idea that goals alone define success - reminding us that it’s the process, the discipline and the way we show up every day that truly counts. Whether you’re a runner or not, this episode is an invitation to reflect on your own mindset, your values, and your relationship with setbacks. Eliud shows us that progress isn’t always linear - and that real growth often happens in the moments we never planned for. I hope you enjoy listening. Support the podcast and enjoy Ad-Free episodes. Try FREE for 7 days on Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/feelbetterlivemore. For other podcast platforms go to https://fblm.supercast.com. Thanks to our sponsors: https://join.whoop.com/livemore http://www.vivobarefoot.com/livemore https://drinkag1.com/livemore https://airbnb.co.uk/host   Show notes https://drchatterjee.com/567   DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or qualified healthcare provider. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

I always say marathon is life and life is marathon. In life there is a lot of challenges. We can't laugh every day because we get challenges but we move on because every day we need to press on, press on, press on, press on. The moment we are no longer pressing on, that's the end of life. Hey guys, how are you doing? Hope you're having a good week so far. My name is Dr. The moment we are no longer pressing on, that's the end of life. Hey guys, how are you doing? Hope you're having a good week so far. My name is Dr. Rangan Chatterjee and this is my podcast, Feel Better, Live More.

When life doesn't unfold the way we hoped, it can be tempting to see that as failure, but what if it was those moments that actually shape us the most? This week my guest is the one and only, Eliud Kipchoge. Eliud first came on my show almost three years ago in October 2022, just one week after he broke the world record 2022, just one week after he broke the world record at the Berlin Marathon. And this brand new conversation with him was recorded a few weeks back, just days after he completed the 2025 London Marathon. Elliot is a Kenyan athlete who is widely regarded as the greatest marathon runner of all time. He has won two successive Olympic marathons and 10 major titles, and of course he's the only athlete to have ever run a marathon in under two hours, which he did back in 2019 in Vienna as part of the 159 Challenge.

But Elliot's wisdom goes far beyond running. During our wonderful conversation, you will hear why discipline is what creates freedom, and how keeping promises to yourself builds the self-trust needed to face life's hardest moments. Why failure is not the opposite of success, but instead the soil where wisdom grows. How running has become a metaphor for life, with its highs, lows, unexpected challenges and the need to keep moving forward. Why goals alone do not define success. How Elliot not being able to finish his last Olympic marathon taught him more than any victory ever could, the true power of community, humility and purpose, and why

he still cleans toilets at his training camp despite being a global icon, and why he believes that ego is something we must all learn to let go of. Yes, Elliot is an elite to reflect on your own mindset, your own values, and your own relationship with failure. And it also serves as a powerful reminder that progress in life is not always linear and often happens in the moments we never planned for. Many people regard you as the greatest marathon runner of all time. And often I've noticed before you compete in a race, journalists ask you, what is your goal?

Very often your answer is, my goal is to run a beautiful race. We're sitting here two days after you completed the London Marathon when you finished sixth. Was that a beautiful race? Absolutely, yes. Beautiful race is a race where I, you start and you finish.

Starting is a different thing and finishing actually is a different thing. Going through the whole 26 miles and just crossing the finishing line is two different things. Your mind, your body is changing, immediately you cross the finishing line. And when you cross, you get that accomplishment that I have accomplished a mission of a beautiful race. And that's why I always say it was a beautiful race, regardless of any number, regardless of any position. But it was beautiful because number, regardless of any position. But it was beautiful because I was running with the values.

I was running with the spirit of sport and spirit of humanity. And I managed to go through all 42 kilometers with the same spirit and finish with the same spirit. And that's beautiful. When you say you ran with the values of humanity, what does that mean? By saying the values of humanity, I mean the values which actually respects the humanity. I mean, I respect the sport. I value the sport. I run with respect. I run with integrity. And apart from that, I regard sport as a movement. You know, and I am really a big supporter of this movement. So inside it, there is respect, there is integrity, there is consistency, there is love.

And those are the values which actually every human being, all the 7 billion people should live with and we'll have a fruitful world. You know, a lot of people, Elliot, when they run, they're thinking about their finished time. Okay, so let's say, you know, people run a 5K. Yes. Right?

Oh, I want to beat 30 minutes or I want to beat 25 minutes. Do you think it's good for people to have goals in terms of the time in which they run? Or can sometimes those goals become limiting and we can forget about the joy and actual experience of running? They say actually, dreaming is good, but don't dream too much. Getting a vision and setting a call is really good, but don't set too much goals. First, there is a real system for that goal that you need to plan well and prepare well. And the minute you respect the two values of preparation and planning, then the fighting of that call, the fighting of that

vision comes in. Because if you put actually in front of your mind the call itself, and what goes on behind the scene is not actually, is not the call itself. You need to work more hard. There is a lot of things going on behind the scenes before that call. I'll give you an example that when you are planting a seed, when you put a seed into the soil, you wait for seven days to germinate. But what's happening between the first day and the seventh day is really wonderful. You know, the seed starts to grow downwards, not upwards.

But going down, it's inside the soil, it's really warm. It's hard to penetrate. And trying to penetrate that soil, resisting that warmth, that oldness inside the soil. And then coming out after seven days. Then you get the real plan is coming out, testing the sun and going very fast. That's now the call. But what has been going on behind the scene or inside the soil is a lot of things,

a lot of heartbreaks, a lot of tiredness, a lot of hunger. Anything which can actually make you to go back has been happening. I always give that respect, that philosophy, and bring the running. That you can set a goal and a vision that I want to run 13 minutes in 5K. But what are the recipes for actually running 13 minutes? There's a lot of recipes for running 13 minutes. You need to prepare well, you need to plan, you need to go all through the trainings,

you need to create consistency in training, you need to be disciplined, you need to eat well, you need to actually throw away the normal food and eat with food which can build you. You need to eat that food which is not really sweet, but which brings us a lot of energy. And that's the hardest moment ever. So it's all, it's good to dream, it's good to set a goal, it's good to actually have

a vision, but to draw a map, to draw a roadmap for running that 10 minutes is crucial. Yeah. It's interesting because I understand for an elite athlete like you, a marathon training cycle is what? Three, four months? Yes. Something like that. Okay.

So let's think about that through the lens of goals. Okay. So the reason I asked the question is because I find, well, I've experienced this myself in the past, but I also find with many people that goals, they sound like a good thing, but sometimes they can become a trap, right? And so let's say in a four month training cycle, let's say there's many days in those four months

where you're training, you're preparing, right? You're doing what you need to do. So I don't know, let's say 30 days a month, right? So let's say it's 120 days of preparation and planning for the one race. You could have 119 perfect days, right? Where you train, where you rest, where you follow the plan, you exercise

discipline, but on the 120th day, the marathon day, things outside your control could happen. Right? And so some people, if all the focus is on the goal, they forget about the 119 days that were brilliant, that 120th day where they don't get the time or they don't win the marathon, they then regard themselves as failing. But that's a problem, isn't it? Because that's not failure. That's a huge problem.

That's not failure. In fact, that person is a real, real success. Yeah. That's a huge success. But they don't see it, some people. They look at the time and go, I didn't make the time. I failed without seeing all the great things that they did. That's what I say. For some people, I think goals become limiting. That's what I mean by it. I get you. Yeah. Goals are becoming limited, but you know, we should appreciate what we

have been doing all the way. We should appreciate when you wake up and do the writing, that's what, that's what we should be appreciating. You know, 119 days like is a real accomplishment. What can we do with this 119 days? What have you learned? There's a lot of learnings inside. And you know, if we are hoping enough,

if you have shock absorbers enough to handle any setback which can arise, then we can confront those days, get real accomplishment and move on. Those days can make us to a clear sky, rocket very fast again, because you know what's going on. You now have experience.

Take time, sleep, wake up tomorrow in the morning, set another goal and move on. And so, in some ways, the goal is there to help you focus and do the preparation. But actually, in many ways, whether you achieve the goal or not, I guess in some ways doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Call is what makes you to be disciplined. To bring you to the course. That's the reason why people are setting their course is to bring you around the course.

When you want to go astray, it brings you back. That's the real reason for setting a course. But all in all is that what's happening within the course is what life is. You know, when you first came on my podcast two and a half years ago, I spoke to you one week exactly after you broke the world record in Berlin. Since then, a lot has changed in the running world. Records have changed. People coming and competing against you has changed. And you went through this period of time for years where everyone knew, well, we thought, oh, he's going to win. Oh, he's going to win. You kept winning. Okay. And that's constant string of victories has now changed.

Okay. And one of the interviews you gave before the London Marathon, you were talking about the new generation and you were saying, Hey, the new generation are better. Okay. When you said the new generation are better. Okay. When you said the new generation are better, what did you mean by that? I'm now 40, approaching 41. And I consider myself not the next generation because I believe anybody after five years is no longer the next generation. And our work now and my work now, because I'm no longer the next generation, is to nurture the next generation, is to build the next generation, is to give

holistic education and holistic training to the next generation. What I mean by holistic training is training which makes them better than the way I am. I believe that anybody younger than me is really better because they are better than me because they are getting the holistic education from myself, which makes them better than where I am now. That's what I mean because, you know, when they talk of love, they say, beautiful ones are not yet born. I believe that actually the fastest ones are not yet born. But those who are younger than me are faster than me.

Yeah. Yes. It's so interesting. In some ways it feels as though you have that sort of fatherly relationship with them or you want to give that sort of fatherly guidance to them. Is that fair to say? That's fair to say. I want to give everybody a fatherly love. You know, my profession now is 22 years old. Yeah. Most of the heartless now are between 18 and 22. My profession is really older than their age.

And my child now is 18 years, first year at the University. So all these people are like my kids. I need to provide a fatherly love to them. The fatherly guidance, the fatherly nurture. And I need to be a further love to them, the further guidance, the further nurture. And I need to be more friendly to them and provide the right things which make them actually think, make them to reach finial dwell with the world of sport. Where do you think that comes from within you? Because if I look across elite sport beyond running, I'm not sure I've seen this kind

of approach that much. I'm not sure I've seen people who were the very best. You know, I'm not sure how common it is for people to then want to spread that love there. I don't know if it comes to upbringing mindset, culture, what our parents instilled into us, but you don't see it everywhere. And so I'm interested for you. Where do you think that kind of giving collective community mindset comes from? I always take time myself to think and ask myself, what will the world benefit from me? Ask myself a lot of questions. That I am 40 now.

But for the next 12,000 days, where will I be? What are the contributions to the sport? What are the contributions to the sport? What are the contributions to this planet? Those are 20 years to come. So I see that because I'm a sportsman, I want to use running as a messenger to carry the message of hope to the whole world for the next 20 years.

And the only way is actually to nurture the next generation, to nurture the young people, to make the young people more better than me, to make the young people to think more than what I think, to make this world a lovely world, a united world, and to make everybody respect each other in a healthy way. That's what I've been thinking because, sometimes you ask yourself,

this wall we have 7 billion people. Can we say the next 3,650 days that's 10 years, where will the wall of sport be? Those are the questions we need to ask ourselves every time we wake up. And if all of us can ask ourselves those questions, we'll have a platform whereby we'll make the sport beautiful, we'll make a sport benefit each other and the next generation will make a sport benefit each other

and the next generation will actually enjoy sport. And you know, there will be big reasons to be in sport. Not only to get money and run, not only to get money and just work. There is life beyond that sport. Touching lives is the real reason in sport. It's clear from watching you run, hearing you speak, that you feel that your contribution to running is much more than just winning races and setting records. Okay. I know you want to inspire people and I think you inspire people in so many different ways.

When I sat down with you face to face two and a half years ago, you very kindly spent some time with my children afterwards. Okay. It had a really big impact on them. So the point where just six weeks ago, my son did a project for his school. Okay. It was an important project. And do you know what the title was? No. The title of his project was, will someone run an official marathon in under two hours, a race marathon within the next 10 years. So he had to do a whole project on this idea

when he went through various points and looked at what the scientists say and running shoe technology and all these things. But he finished off talking about mindsets and he brought up the example of Roger Bannister. When Roger broke the four minute mile, everyone said he couldn't do it. It wasn't possible. And after doing it, I think eight people in the next two years broke it, you know, because we look back to that with the four minute mile and some people call that the Bannister effect. Okay. By Roger Bannister breaking the four minute mile, it showed the next generation what is possible. And we were saying, well, maybe in 10 years, people will say, well, that's the Kipchoge effect. By Elliot Kipchoge breaking two hours in those

conditions, it then sets the scene for the younger generation to do it in a race. How does that feel for you to know that your impact isn't just for people running, it's even affecting children and how they do their school projects? That's huge news for me and you know, that's what makes me wake up every morning and run. Those are the news which actually acts as an ignition key in my life. That when I hear those news, it makes me to jump at 5.30 in the morning, get my clothes and shoes and go to the road and run. That's my motivation and that's my inspiration. One of your Kenyan compatriots, Kelvin Kipsem, unfortunately died a couple of years ago. Kelvin broke your world record in Chicago. I'm really interested in your relationship to winning and your relationship

to world records. When Kelvin broke your world record, do you remember where you were at that time? Do you remember, you know, were you watching the race? When did you first hear about it? And how did you feel when you found out that somebody had broken your world record? When Kelvin was actually breaking the world record in Chicago, he was at home watching on TV. actually breaking the world record in Chicago. I was at home watching on TV and I was happy man to see somebody younger than me breaking the world record because I broke the world record twice. And you know, inside my heart,

I believe that records are there to be broken. And that's the beauty of sport. When the sport actually will reach a space whereby records are not touched, then that's no longer a sport. So it's really a sport. You practice today, I practice tomorrow. You win today, I win tomorrow. That's sport, that's sport.

It's like Premier League, you know? That's sport. That's sport. It's like Premier League, you know, the least three are going for relegation. And you know, teams are fighting to win EPL. Teams are fighting not to go to relegation. That's sport. And that's the sweetness of sport. So when I saw actually Kelvin running and actually breaking the world record, I was the happiest man, because after all, my name will be there twice as a record breaker. I was not the first one. A lot of people have been breaking the world records from 1980 all through to 2022. Then the breaking of the record should really go on, go on, go on.

That's why I always believe that anybody younger is better than me. Yeah. Yes. The circle of life. Yes. Yeah. In my son's projects, he has to write a conclusion, you know, because the question was, will a human break the two hour barrier in an official race

within the next 10 years? And in his conclusion, he made the case for why he thinks they will. What do you think? I think the conclusion that we made was a human being can track the two hour barrier in the next 10 years. You think so? I think so. that we made was a human being can crack that war party in the next 10 years. You think so? I think so. What's the key factor for someone if they're going to run sub two hours in an official race?

It's simple. The key factor actually is that they have to think, they have to try and they have to do it. If you go in that process, that's the symbol process to protect your body. It's interesting when I talk to you, when I spoke to you the very first time in 2022, this deep belief you have that no human is limited. Absolutely. Right, that we shouldn't believe the stories

that people tell us. Like people say a human can't run a marathon in under two hours. What did scientists say? It's gonna be 2075, right? Yes, yes, yes. People were telling you that. It's not gonna happen till 2075.

Absolutely. But you did it, right? And it's interesting. Yesterday, I spoke to a fellow athlete of yours, Safan Hassan, and I was chatting to her about her mentality. And that's in the 2024 Olympics. She decided to run the 5k, the 10k and the marathon. And she was also sharing this idea that people around her were saying, oh, you shouldn't do this. You know, it can't be done or, you know, you've not done enough training to do the 2023 marathon, but there seems to be in Safan and yourself and many of the top athletes, it seems to be this inner belief, this inner belief that it doesn't matter what people say,

doesn't matter what stories, what culture says, what society says, I believe I can do it. And so I'm going to try, right? Now, sometimes you'll try to do something and it won't happen, but you still have that belief. Where did that idea come from within you that no human is limited? Do you think that applies to everyone on the planet or just to a few? I think by now it applied to nearly everybody, but the idea came in the year 2017 when the Nike came in with trying to get people to break the world bar. And you know, it was really hard. A lot of stories were going on, you know, all social media channels,

you know, a lot of stories on Twitter, a lot of stories on actually newspapers that these people are chockers. But I ask myself, are the human beings limited? Then I answer myself, no, no human is limited. In this world, there is no human being who is limited. That if the moment you are limited, then it's only applies in your thinking.

And to be unlimited, it's also always stays in your head. Because, you know, and that's where the time no human is limited came in. I just jumped into the ship in 2017, but although I missed it to break the tour of Haria, but it was a success and I missed it by 25 seconds, which shows I'm not limited at all. Okay.

Yeah, and then the world now start to open. The world in 2017 was like in a cocoon. Everybody was closed, but I used the word no human is limited to bracket, and leave people to be free, to know that they are not limited at all. Yes. If there's someone who's struggling in their life

at the moment, let's say, I don't know, a single mother who feels that life is tough. Okay. What can they take from your message that no human is limited? Oh, all the single mothers are beautiful. And they have the strongest children ever. and they have the strongest children ever. I am actually from a single mother. I went to school. I did not actually sleep without food, but I was taken care of by a single mother.

So the message to all single mothers about no human is limited is to know that the moment they break that cocoon and come up that I will move on with my children. I will take care of my children. I will put the food on the table. I will take them to school. I will mentor them.

I will nurture them. I will live with them. I will show them the way. That's the game changer. That's the belief. Believe and put on and move ahead. It feels like running a marathon is a metaphor for life. We have to endure, we have to go through ups, we have to go through downs, but somehow we have to get through. It seems like a lot of the lessons that you have learned yourself through running

marathons can also be applied beyond running. For you, what is the similarity between running a marathon and getting through life? And then what are some of the key lessons you've learned through running marathons that we can all apply in our own lives? This episode is brought to you by Whoop, a brand new partner for my podcast. Now, I've been wearing a Whoop band for about a year now, and it has had a transformative effect on my health and wellbeing. I've gained so many insights,

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I always say marathon is life and life is marathon. In life, there is a lot of challenges. We can't laugh every day because we get challenges, but we move on because every day we need to press on, press on, press on, press on. The moment we are no longer pressing on, that's the end of life. In marathon, there is a huge and long journey.

There is pumps on the way. There is potholes on the way. Pumps are like small challenges come within your profession, within your personal life. The pothole circle is that challenge which you believe that you are down and you will never wake up. It's the same thing that you actually happen to drive a car, eat a pozole and you get a puncture. Just go on the road, change your tire and move on.

That's not the end of life. You cannot leave the car and just move. So it's like life. When you hit actually the hardest rock ever, that's not the end of life. Go back, see how you can eat it more. Eat it more again that rock because the last stroke will break it.

But that last stroke is not really important. The rest we have been using to hit that drug is countable. And anything you are doing actually cannot go into a loss. Until the 2024 Olympic marathon, you had never not completed a marathon race that you started. For many people who watched that race, it was quite a shock for us to see you stop and pull out of that race. Okay, so through the lens of what you've just said, okay, life is full of challenges and potholes and unexpected things come up all the time.

I'm guessing for you not completing the 2024 marathon in Paris, that wasn't part of the plan, was it? I don't know about the plan, but I think I hit a pothole actually on the way. When we talk and you know bring our minds as far as life is concerned. In sport that's a big challenge, but what did I learn from this challenge?

Was it the end of the world? Was it the end of my career? Was it the end of sport? All of them know. We go back, we sit, we learn from it. I collect myself, put myself on the table, and you know, right, what I've been doing. You actually absorb the news and move on.

What happened, actually, I learned that this world is full of challenges. Life can try to break you, but if you are strong enough, life cannot break you. You bounce back. Yeah. You know, the important thing is that I fall down, but when did I wake up? How fast can you wake up? How far can you wake up? The important thing is waking up, not getting the real thing because we forget it. What happened we forget, but we wake up and move on. back to that race, because I think coming into that marathon race in Paris, you were hoping to maybe get three consecutive golds.

Absolutely. That was your plan, right? The goal, right? Which then, as you said before, the goal allowed you to put a training plan in place to try and achieve that goal. During that race, can you just talk us through at what point did you start to realize something was wrong? What was your self-talk like? Because a lot of people struggle with negative self-talk and was it hard for you to get to that point

where you thought, actually, you know what? I'm gonna pull out. At 20 kilometers, actually, I feel my legs actually is no longer moving. I have some pain and, you know, it can come up the way I think. Then I try to push on and push and push, but I realize I can't go anywhere. So a lot was going on in my mind. Can I finish with the end of time? Can I just stop?

What can I do? Then I made a decision to stop and move on. Stopping actually for me was the hardest thing ever. Not finishing actually was the hardest thing ever. I was the oldest athlete there. And you know what comes in a lot in the social media that hey, somebody send me a message that the best dancer knows when to leave the stage. Just a small text like that. In other words, he was telling me, it's your time to leave the stage and run. But I took it in a positive way and just read the message and leave because I know what

I am doing. So it was a lot going on, time and leaving the sport, just going to do other things. But what can I do? What can I do to empower this world? What tool can I use as a messenger to take my messages across the world? Then the answer was this, to leave the sport, fight within the sport,

to make this sport your great messenger to empower the world. Then I woke up, go to training and here I am now. When you pulled out of that race, was it intentional to let the runners pass you first? pulled out of that race, was it intentional to let the runners pass you first? I realised I can't move on anymore. Then I say, hey, let me start to choke around. That's chocked because I didn't see any Badooq and I didn't see any car coming for me to jump in and go to the finishing line. Then I ch this slowly by slowly and start to walk and, you know, just decided to say, let me stop, wait for the people who actually taking people to the finishing line. And yeah, yeah.

It's interesting. You talk a lot about values and running with the values of humanity. And a lot of people had a huge amount of respect for you that when you stopped, you walked with a lot of the crowds. Yeah. I walked with over 600 people. And you took your, your vest off, you signed things, you gave people things. My socks, everything. So I say these are the gifts because they are giving me, I have inspired them.

You know, people are coming from North and South America, Asia, everywhere, Europe, Africa. And I say, hey, let us work together. Let us actually, you know, running is a movement. Let us use this vehicle actually to move things in this world. It was a wonderful moment. And I think it really, you know, again, people call you the greatest of all time, I think, for a variety of different reasons. Yes, your athletic ability, the records, the wins. But I don't think it's just that. I think it's the humility. It's the way you conduct yourself, the values with which you race.

And I think you walking at the Paris Olympics, after you'd pulled out, you must be very disappointed. You'd never done that before. Yet, even in that moment of disappointment, you were able to conduct yourself with this sort of humility and this warmth. You didn't seem to be angry and don't want to talk to anyone and go off, leave me alone. You were there with this supportive community. It was quite incredible to watch. Yes.

So, you know, humility is the key and you know, understanding life is the best thing ever. They say anger actually is a weed which can destroy you. But if you manage to throw away anger, that's the only way to get knowledge and you know, think straight and do the right things. And I believe that the moment you are humble in a good way, that's the best time actually to think

and be on the right course. How do you feel now? Almost a year on from the Olympics, you had this plan, you had this goal, third consecutive goal. It didn't happen. Do you regret that now or do you think that you pulling out of that marathon has taught you incredible things about life that you could out of that marathon has taught you incredible things about life that you could not have learned had you not been through that experience. Absolutely. You know, pulling out of the Paris Marathon actually, tight my heart and I learn

a lot because let us say the best things had happened last year and I won the third gold medal. For now I don't actually know how to handle the setbacks. I don't know, I could not have the knowledge on how to sit down, see what has been happening behind my back, what has been happening for the last 20 years, try to wake up, sit on the chair and, you know, see the table in one eye and draw another roadmap. But I think I thank God that it happened in Paris. Now I think I am whole enough to hold any setback which comes in, in my own way.

They say, don't they, we learn more from our bad races than our good races. And one of the things that I find myself trying to teach or share with my children quite a lot these days is when something doesn't go to plan for them, one of the questions I asked them is what has this situation taught you that you would never have learnt had it not occurred? It's my way of trying to get them to start taking that sort of mindset to life. The mindset that I didn't have until recently, that when things don't go to plan, there's always a learning opportunity if you train yourself to look for it.

Yes, that's exactly what, you know, anything you fail, then you actually scoop the learnings. But anything you get, it becomes a success. It's hard to actually poke on the positives. But if you fail to actually get those negatives, it's very easy and learn from it. Was you pulling out of the 2024 Olympic marathon? Do you regard that as a failure? Not real failure, but you know, anything can happen in life. You can control your hands cannot handle, but life must continue.

That's the thing I've got. I have, I realized that you can spend five months and fail to clinch what you have been doing. You know, I took time. I always watch the fighting games, boxing, you know, we're waking up very early in the morning to watch those people fighting in Saudi Arabia, in America, and learn and you know, research on that training and you know somebody has been living in a team for four months. Good basic, good mind, a lot of energy. Going to the ring, 18 seconds. Knock down, knock out, 18 seconds. Just imagine, you have been there with a whole team of 12 people, training for 3, 4, 5 months,

but you fight only instead of 25 minutes. Took 18 seconds. That's a real challenge, that anything can happen. But life is about facing it with your two eyes and going through it. What will happen? Let us learn from it. If it's success, let us absorb success and move on. If it means that we miss success,

let us learn from this missings and move on. Yeah. Something I think about a lot, Elliot, you know, that there's a narrative that goals are always good, but I don't believe anything in life is always good. It depends on what's going on behind that goal. Okay. If the goal is there to say something about who you are as a human being, then I think

that goal can become problematic. I don't know if you've heard of the English rugby player, Johnny Wilkinson. He was one of the best rugby players in the world. And in, I think it was 2003, in the final minute of the World Cup final, he scores the winning goal. Okay. So it's the kind of thing that children in rugby playing nations would dream about as kids, right?

The final minute of the World Cup final, you take the kick and your country wins the World Cup. He did that at the age of 23, but he will share that actually that caused him 10 years of depression and anxiety and real mental health struggles. There was too much focus on the outcome. A lot of the things you're talking about today is about process over outcome, journey over destination. And he will share that there was a real focus on the outcome.

He said to me that he used to play rugby as a child for fun, to express himself. There's somewhere along the line, rugby said something about who he was as a human. And that's when all his problems started. Right? So this idea that goals can be helpful, but also limiting, I think it's really, really interesting for people to think about. Oh yes, calls can help, but it can be a limiting factor too. That we need to have a call, but we need to put aside. But work on the right systems

and make that call as a guidance to guide you not to fall, to guide you not to stop, to guide you not to fall astray or do anything else. But if all of us can have all the right systems, all the workings in front of our minds, put the call at the back of our minds, then as the time course will grow in a good way. I was at my local park run last week, okay, Saturday morning. And there's a prime example here of what we're talking about. This chap who I know super well there. Two years ago, And he was averaging 25, 26 minutes for his Saturday morning 5k run. And then for a few years, he's now transformed his lifestyle and his training.

And he's now running like 22 minutes, 22 and a half minutes. A huge improvement from just two years ago. And then recently he ran a park run and it was like 2240. And he was so disappointed. He's like, oh man, I can't believe it. I messed up. And what was really interesting to me, I said to him, hey, you know, like just two years ago, if you broke 25 minutes, that was amazing.

Right? But now you're disappointed and you're really, really upset with a 2240. And it was just quite interesting to me how that goal or that, again, it's not for me to say it's for him as an individual to figure out what's important to him. But there's so many things that we can't control when we just focus on the time, the weather, the wind, how much sleep did I have the night before? How stressful was my week at work, right? So the time is just the time. It doesn't show us the story behind the time, does it?

Yes, absolutely. So for him, I would argue that in some ways that goal is not allowing him to appreciate how far he's actually come. Yes, I think the only thing for him is actually to understand that he has made a huge, huge improvement of three minutes, which is really huge. But not all days are equal. You can run 19 minutes tomorrow.

Next week you can run 25 minutes. And that's life in sport. That's life. Yes. And you can run 25 minutes next week. And the following day you can run 19 again. That's how the body actually reacts in sport. So it needs understanding that the moment we are okay, we are okay.

The moment we feel our energy actually is average, we appreciate the average energy. When our energy is are at 90%, we appreciate also and we press our bodies to the limit. You said before that running is not just about the legs. It's also about the heart and the mind. What does that mean? I say that clearly I'm not running with my own legs, but it's about my heart and my mind. That what drives me is what I'm putting in my heart,

put in my mind and say it with my mouth, that I need to control my body. And the moment I have internalized about running in my heart, then to control my legs is really hissy because it can move because the body is just their body. But you know, respecting and putting your everything, the running in your heart and you know, making your mind to control everything. It's worth it. This whole idea of controlling our minds, it's something that a lot of people struggle with. I recently saw an interview

with the amazing tennis player Novak Djokovic, and the interviewer said something to Djokovic, said something like, you have the gift of a strong mindset. And Novak stopped the interview, said, no, this is not a gift. This is a skill that I've worked on and cultivated. How do you work on and cultivate the skill

of a positive mindset? I am using actually what I'm doing in training. That if I train for four months, running 50%, 70%, 90%, I don't care if training is up and down, but eating the targets and feeling that I am okay, then that's the way to build a fit mind. And that's my only skill that I am using. The moment I am happy with my trainings,

then my mind is happy also. Because the moment I'm not happy with the training, the mind is not happy. And that's a real, real challenge. So I need to train in a happy way and you know, and the mind will be calm enough knowing that all is well. Is this the reason that you say that discipline is what leads to freedom? Absolutely. Yes. I always say those who are disciplined are the free people. The moment you do what you know more every day without missing it, that's your mind will cope it, your body will cope it.

And you know, then your profession will be clean. One of my roles for many years as a doctor has been to help patients make different choices with their lifestyle and their eating habits. Okay? And one of the things I often share with people is this idea that saying you're going to do something and not doing it is one of the most toxic things you can do. Because you say I'm going to do something and then by not doing it is one of the most toxic things you can do. Because you say I'm gonna do something and then by not doing it, you show yourself that you can't trust yourself, you can't rely on yourself.

And I think about that when I hear you talk about discipline. To me, it seems that by you having your training plan and doing it and committing to it, you're building up that trust in yourself, right? You know that actually I said I was going to do it and I did it, which is why I think a lot of people struggle. They make new year's resolutions. They say, I'm going to do this this year and they do it for two weeks and then they stop and then they don't do it anymore. There's many reasons for that. But I think they start to break the trust that they have with themselves, the word that they give to themselves, they're breaking. So I say to people, listen, make your goals

less. Maybe it's just one thing, but do that one thing every day because by doing that thing, you build up trust in yourself over time. And it sounds very much that you have a similar approach to training. Do you think it helps you build that trust in yourself, which is what you of course need when you're in the middle of a race? Absolutely. As you know, doing everything actually without missing is creating trust between my call, my trainings and myself. Trust is a semen between me and what I'm doing.

Trust is of huge value, which can destroy you if you don't take care of it. So you need to mix it well. You need to make that trust actually have real, real, make it real, real hard. Because you know, between me and what I'm doing is the trust. But I respect and treat trust as a summon. It needs to be really firm. And I'm moving on in a good way.

The woman is not firm, then you can't go anywhere. What's the balance people need to have between discipline and compassion? What I mean by that is discipline we get taught is about, you know, the mind's in control. Okay, I said I was going to do that. I'm going to do it. You know, I'm going to work out or walk for one hour a day I said I was gonna do that. I'm gonna do it, you know Said I'm gonna work out or walk for one hour a day. I'm gonna do that. But on some days, of course Life can get in the way. Okay people can be busy

One of their family members could be sick Maybe they've got an injury and they need to rest and not move So how do you see that balance between discipline, doing what you say you're going to do and compassion where you sometimes need to be kind to yourself and allow yourself to go actually not today? You know, I believe the real person. Most of the human beings are not busy. You can wake up and plan your days well, unless otherwise, that you have something like an injury,

you have something that can prepare you not doing that. But any other thing you can plan yourself and say, But any other thing you can plan yourself and say, I'm in my office of the work only one o'clock, but I need to grab water and walk for four to five minutes. Come back, take a shower and go back to the office. That's creating time. There is nobody who is busy in this world. Being busy is just in our minds, but in reality, there is nobody who is busy. Now, I imagine there'll be some people listening to that, Elliot, who might be pushing back

and saying, Elliot, you don't understand my life. I've got two jobs to do. I don't have any help with my children. My life is busy. What would you say to that person? You know, I always tell people before you go to sleep, know what you will be doing tomorrow. If you wake up in the morning without any plan, stay in your house. In the evening, just go, get a paper, write the assignments or appointments you will be doing tomorrow.

Create all the timings. Even if you are doing actually two jobs, there will be a loophole somewhere where you can do something. Yes. So I believe planning is the key. If you sleep with your plan, that's the best. But if you don't sleep with your plan, tomorrow morning you feel like you are really crazy busy, but you are not busy. Yeah. I love that. I definitely think for some people at least, they haven't taken the time to ask themselves

the important questions, get clarity on what is truly important in life. And so the lack of clarity means that we don't properly prioritize. So everything feels equally important, right? But it's not. And I know you're a fan of journaling. I'm a fan of journaling. One of the questions I ask myself every morning

as part of my journaling practice is what is the most important thing I have to do today? And it's such a beautifully simple, but very powerful question because in a world where many people have all these competing demands, you know, I've got to do this for work or family or my fitness or whatever, that question forces you to make a decision every morning. What is the most important thing I have to do today? And then you go and do it. Yes. On my site, actually, in the evening, I get a channel, write 20 things that I need to do it. Tomorrow morning, I wake up, go to training, come back.

I cannot do all of them. Even if I just jump out for two hours and do 10 things, that's enough. The rest will come on the next day or next week. Yeah. Don't rush, provided that you're actually well planned and you know you are prioritized. Two first things first, the rest will come. Elied, where do you think your humility

and lack of ego comes from? The first thing is to be humble. lack of ego comes from. Just taking a quick break to give a shout out to AG1, one of the sponsors of today's show. Nutrition can often seem really complicated. We get confused about what exact diets we should be following and which supplements we might benefit from taking. And that's one of the many reasons that I love AG1 and have been taking it for over six years. AG1 makes it simple to be the best version of you. Over 70 ingredients, one scoop once a day for less than a cup of coffee. It's a science-driven, daily health drink,

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This episode is brought to you by Airbnb. Now recently I was chatting with a friend and we were talking about how when life gets really busy, it can be tough to keep up with everything, especially if like him, you travel a lot for work. And that's when the idea of hosting on Airbnb came up and it really got me thinking. Hosting your place when you're not around is a fantastic way of earning a bit of extra income and now it's even easier with the new co-host network on Airbnb. With the new co-host network, you don't have to do it all on your own. You can team up with a high quality local co-host who can step in and handle things

for you. And they can do as much or as little as you need. Whether it's managing reservations or talking talking to guests, or even helping with styling your home, a co-host can do it all. So if hosting is a side hustle you've thought about, but you need a bit of extra help getting started, find a co-host at airbnb.co.uk forward slash host. I think respecting humanity and knowing I've been a purpose in this world is what has given me power of humility and power of actually drawing away ego. I don't, I believe that we are all human beings.

You know, at the end of the day, you ask yourself, when you arrive in your house, what did I do that promotes humanity? What did I do that they benefited me and the whole planet? And if ego is there, that one has actually subtracted your mind, it has subtracted your values, it has subtracted your spirit to walk, and we need to throw it away.

But humbleness actually connects you with people. Humbleness actually creates a real connection with everybody in this world. And that's my power. Did you have ego earlier on in your career? I have never possessed an ego at all. Do you think your upbringing you shared before that you were brought up by a single mother, do you think part of your childhood has sort of taught you

about humility and the importance of compassion? Absolutely, I think being taken care of by a single mother is what has brought me to learn many things. Learn to be humble, throw away the ego, because I come from Africa. I come from Kenya, where we have different cultures, traditional cultures, whereby children with their fathers are more superior than children who have been taken care of by the single mothers.

And we feel inferior because we don't have our fathers. But I ask myself, I will cut across all these things, move on, use the sport to empower anybody and everybody in this world. And that's what I am doing. I treat all the human beings in an equal way. I keep the same love, the same respect, the same thing to every humanity. I was looking at the winners list of the London Marathon

for the last few years. And in the men's race, at least, it's been a string of canyons. Yes. Why is it, do you think that there are so many elite Kenyan marathon runners? Is it the physiology, the psychology, the culture? What is it you think? I think it's the culture and the thinking. It's the culture that we have enough muscles, enough our high altitude holes as well, and we have energy to run for long. And that's why East Africa are producing long distance runners.

But if the world actually will come out of the cocoon, know that all of us, we are human beings, we'll compete in a good way. In America, fish actually broke the world record, Tindo. He's not a Kenyan. More far as living in the United Kingdom, you earn a lot of gold medals in Olympics and world

championships. All other marathoners from across all over the world are now realizing that if we train for it and work for it, we'll actually get to where people are. One thing I notice when I watch these elite races is the Kenyan runners seem to be very close, at least from what I can tell when I watch it, that seems to be a real joy when you or another Kenyan runner sees another Kenyan runner do well.

Would you say that is something that exists in Kenya? Are we all, yes, people are competitive, they wanna do well, but are they also happy when one of their comrades also performs well, even if that person beats them? Absolutely, as you know, Kenyans, most Kenyans actually respect the sport. And you know that if you want to enjoy

sport, you need to accept the outcome. And that's why Kenyans are happy when they see somebody else is winning and beating them. And by accepting and enjoying, that's the only way to love the sport and, you sport and make the sport live again. That's such an interesting point. Kenyans respect the sport. So it sounds as though the sport is the most important thing, right? That we conduct ourselves with the values associated with that sport. Now, I'm not convinced that all countries as a generalization have that relationship with sports. Some countries and cultures to me seem to be more individualistic.

It's about me and my relationship with that sport. I want to be the best. And the way I can be the best is by being better than others. You've never struck me as someone who thinks like that. And I'm also drawn to something you said in our first conversation together that you never train by yourself. You're always training with your crew,

with your tribe, with your group. You always train together, you guys run together. And I said to you last time that in countries like the UK and the US, there can sometimes be a me perspective with your sport. And it seems that you and other Kenyans have a we perspective. For the rest of my life, for 22 years, I have never said hi. I always say, we as a team. I've been training for 22 years with the whole team. And when I jumped in, into the Passport Marathon, then our management actually started a running club called NN Running Team.

And we tried to sell the narrative of teamwork. And our motto is because running is a team sport. I believe that running actually in general is a team sport. And it makes you to get the best results. When you are with a team, I always tell my people, team is a group of people who trust each other. And team is a group of people who are working to create a community of runners and spread the gospel of running across the world.

And you know, if all of us, if all of the partners can see us as people, then you are going far. You know, I always tell my training partners that then you are going far. You know, I always tell my training partners that a training camp is not a training camp if at least it's not there. An office is not an office.

People at the office. What makes a training camp are the people inside. What makes an office is the people working in that office. The moment we remove the human force, it's no longer a company, it's no longer an office, it becomes a building. And that's why I always say running is a team event. And when you win, you win alone.

But what's the important thing? The important thing is what you have been going through all the way, that the mutual interest that you exchange with your teammates. Because you know, you were discussing that somebody got discouraged when he ran 25 minutes on Five Guy. Three weeks ago, he was running 22 minutes. It's because he was running alone, not with a team.

Today, the whole team can run 25 minutes. Tomorrow, the whole team can run 18 minutes in Five Guy. The next day, they can run 22 minutes. And that's how to enjoy running with the whole team. Because you don't measure yourself alone, you measure yourself with the team. And you enjoy. You don't feel that you have put your whole. Feel that you are 70% with the team.

When you are alone, even if it's 60, you feel it's 90. And it's training, it makes your mind to work hard. It makes your body to walk more hard. Yeah. It's so interesting hearing how you talk about running being a team sports. I think there's many people in the world who think it's an individual sport. And you know, when we read about your team and your training camp, one of the things I've read at least is that there's still a simplicity to daily life. There's a real focus on running together, resting, eating together,

but also there's a rotor for let's say cleaning toilets. Okay, and we read that you're still part of that rotor and that when it's your turn to clean toilets, it's your turn to clean toilets, even though you're regarded as one of the greatest athletes of all time, you're still doing your part in the team. Is that correct?

That's very correct. You know, it's, you know, I always say what I'm saying is what I'm doing. So I want to be a real good example by cleaning the toilets, cleaning the dining room, cleaning the kitchen. And the next generation can get a small teaching from myself and say, hey, this is the way to go. And I will be living a mark which can go ahead, can head and head for the next century.

Yeah. I love that so much, Elliot. It's, it really paints a very powerful picture and helps at least on one level explain this incredible humility that you have that I think draws so many people towards you. It also makes me think about what you said before about a great dancer knows when to leave the stage, right? I've been thinking about this a lot in preparation for our conversation today, okay?

And I've been, frankly, I've been thinking about this a lot for years. There's this phrase that people often say, oh, that athlete's gone on too long. Okay. They might talk about a boxer who should have retired at the top or a golfer who keeps playing even though they're no longer winning majors. Right. And that the kind of societal narrative is, oh, they've gone on too long. But I thought that's ridiculous. How can we say someone's gone on too long? They've only gone on too long

if their relationship was only about winning and being number one. But if their relationship was about enjoying the sport, being the best that they can on any given day, then who's to say that they've gone on too long? If that's the goal, then who the hell can say that they've gone on too long? If that's the goal, then who the hell can say that you've gone on too long? You should have retired at the top. And so I look at your career and I watch you when you finish sixth on Sunday. A lot of

athletes these days know the correct things to say. They've been media trained, right? They say the right things. But you're someone who's not just saying the right things. It's so clear that you believe those things, like you're speaking truth. You had such a big smile on your face afterwards. And I think a lot of people who were interviewing you were confused. They were like, yeah, but you know, two years ago you're breaking world records, but you're still really happy and have a smile on your face even though you finished sixth. And I'm not sure people fully understand your relationship to running and your relationship to winning.

Do you know what I mean? Yes. Personally, I want to live in sport and tell all the athletes running marathon that running for three years is just nothing. Longevity is the key. The more you stay in this sport, the more you learn more. Let us use this sport actually to get the right values, which can inspire the right people and make the right people to be there for long.

Because you know, if be there for long. Because you know, if you stay for long, you get a partner with you think together and move on. It's pushing you and you are pushing them. And that's what we want. Yeah, we really need to see who are you? Ask yourself, who am I? What contribution am I making in this sport? What did I bring to London Marathon?

What did I bring to those one billion people who watched over the weekend? What did they learn from me? Are we on the right track? That's the questions you need to ask yourself because it's not about just winning or be on the limelight for some few years and just disappear. You will give more people a hard time to write history and you know, and they don't understand you because you came and just go away. What defines a successful race for you today? What defines a successful race is the accomplishment that I'm getting.

When I finish a marathon, that's success in myself. Whom did I inspire? Whom did I motivate? The Thai master running on the road in a good way, which can inspire the next generation. That's success. You know, to handle those pressures in training, in art trainings, in life, and staying for performance in a good way and managing to run all through the marathon in a good way. That's success according to me.

There was a world record on Sunday. I think it was around 56,000 people finished, completed the London Marathon. You're someone who wants to spread the inspiration of running all around the world. I think you said in an interview recently that running is a movement. Yes.

Okay, and you are clearly one of the leaders and spearheads of this global movement. What does it say to you that two days ago there was a world record in the number of people completing a marathon. That must give you hope, I imagine, for the future. And also, Elliot, if someone is listening right now, okay, they've clicked on the video because they're interested to hear what you have to say and they hear about the life lessons you've learnt through running marathons, but

they don't run and And they're scared. They're not sure if they can do a marathon. I'd also love to know if you have any words of wisdom or advice for them. You know, 156,740 people cross the finishing line of the London Marathon. They have helped me to make this world running more. They broke a world record of New York.

And I trust in future, the cufflinks, the counter cufflinks, the local cufflinks, the whole cufflinks in every country should try to accommodate over 100,000 people per weekend. And if all of us, you know, we are still far. About 1.5 million to 2 million people are running marathons every year. We are still far. We have a lot of job to do because the population is 7 billion people. We need 4 billion people to run a year. We need 4 billion people to run. I hear. We need 4 billion people to run.

Why? Because we want to make this world a running world. And if all of us, we can run, there is a lot of benefits. Let me come to anybody who is watching actually London Marathon and knowing that the record has been broken. I want to tell that person, please get out of your door and walk. Don't run. Just walk for 20 minutes, 30 minutes and come back. Feel the difference in your body and in your mind. Take that difference to the place of your work. Create a theater in the evening, the work you have done that day and the work you have been doing for the last one year. You will be shocked.

I want to actually challenge the human resource managers. Let us make all our staff to walk and run. And you will never write any letter of sickness at all. Let us make all our staff to walk and run. And you will never write any letter of sickness at all. Never. The world can sometimes seem very divided. A lot of conflicts, a lot of division. Do you think if more people were runners, that would help to heal the world?

Absolutely. As you know, if all of us can run, help to heal the world? Absolutely. As you know, if all of us, we can run, we can heal the world. It can help us to come together on the table and ask ourselves what do you really want? Because sometimes I sit and ask myself, how do people think? You know, I respect the law that we can't think together. That's against the law of nature. But also on the other hand, the law of nature is actually allowing all of us

to bring our minds together. Sit on the table, discuss, bring all the ideas, put on the packet, shake all the ideas, have an agreement and move on. And the moment we move on, we move on with a mutual agreement in our hearts and our minds, not on the paper, because just a paper. It's in our hearts and our minds. I always ask myself, when will this happen? Because we want to see when we are still living.

We want to see people sitting together. We want to see people enjoying their lives and exchanging their ideas. Everybody raising his own issues and trying to think together. And if all of us can get out of the door and run, then you get a lot of ideas. Put the paper and the pen outside your door,

run for 40 minutes, one hour. All the ideas you are getting in, come and put on paper and go back, take shower, go to the job, work on the ideas when you get back home. And we luckily transform this world. get that when you get back home. And we luckily transformed this one. Yeah. I don't know how much of an issue this is in Kenya, Elliot, but certainly here in the UK, many people feel self-conscious. So let's say people have got, you know, a body that they're not happy with, that they're not proud of,

that they may be a bit ashamed of. Sometimes I know, because I've had patients tell me this in the past, they are nervous to go out running because they don't like their body and they don't like what people might think of them when they do go running. What do you say to them? Can I tell you something? Please. This world belongs to all of us.

Nobody's owning the world. All of us in this world are owning the world. The whole 7 billion people are owning the planet. Do what you like. Go for an exercise and come back. Don't get ashamed. Just why? It belongs to all of us.

So I want to tell anybody who feels that you or she is not accommodated somewhere, no. We belong to this world. We need to fight for the space. And that's the only way Has running made you a better father? absolutely, yes running has made me a good father and I want to be the best father for my children and And you know bring all the children actually who are the same age with my kids and take them actually in a good

way to this world. What specifically has running taught you that's helped you become a better parent? It has told me, it has actually taught me about humility that I need to be humble and transfer to my children. I need to understand more and I'm understanding my children in a good way. I need to absorb the values which can make me the better human being. And I'm teaching them the right values to be the better human beings. And that's what running has actually taught me. You say running is a team sport and you have had a very close relationship with your own

coach for many years. How important has that relationship been to your success as an athlete? I've been with my coach for the last 22 years. Your entire running career? My entire running career. Same coach? Same coach. Same coach. That shows that the value of trust is playing a big role. That we trust each other in a good way.

I am doing this part, I am doing my own part. We are coming together, talk about what has been happening and move on. So respect is the key. Trust is the summon and you know, understanding each other is the way to go. Yeah. A few years ago, you gave a talk at Oxford University. A wonderful talk. This was, I think, the year after you'd broken two hours in your race. In that talk, there were some life lessons that you were sharing with the attendees. There were seven, okay? The importance of self-discipline, the importance of preparation, the importance of organization, positive thinking, working with other people,

consistency and also the ability to accept and adapt to change. I wonder if we could just briefly go through those seven key life lessons and just get a couple of lines from you on what they all mean. So number one, self-discipline. Self-discipline actually means the sacrificial of my personal passions and pleasures. First, you set your priorities right. That's how to earn self-discipline. You learn to say no in anything that comes in. That's self-discipline.

Make that self-discipline your lifestyle. You are ready to move. Number two, preparation. Preparation is the key. The moment you set a call, that call is just nothing without the best preparation ever. Preparation is what moves you every day. Preparation is what makes you to work for that call that you have set. That call which brings this,

that call which acts as a discipline to bring you between your course. Organization. Organization actually is how you organize yourself daily. How you plan yourself. I always plan myself at the end of the day, what I will be doing the next day. And the next day, my life moves in an organized manner

without any interruption. And that's why I stress that organization should play a key role when you are a student, when you are a manager, when you are a manager, when you are anything in this world. Positive thinking. Positive thinking is the key that when you go to sleep, go to sleep with positivity and sleep deeply, but wake up thinking in a positive way and your day will be great.

Working with other people. Working with other people is another name for teamwork. And I always define teamwork as a group of people who are trusting each other and working together. That's the way to go. That's the way to get actually a lot of knowledge, a lot of resources and makes you not to walk 100% but help each other to walk. And the same thing is that mutual interest.

They help you, you help them. Number six, consistency. Consistency actually is a drop. That you have a glass of water and slowly by slowly you are bringing this small drop of water but at the end of the month it's full that's consistency. And number seven accept and adapt to change. Change is the key. Without change, you can't go anywhere. So the only thing, when you find yourself, anything has changed.

Be it in technology, be it in anything. Accept and move on. And that's the only way to develop this world. That's the only way to develop yourself,. That's the only way to develop yourself, develop your families, to develop our communities, to develop our nations and to develop our planet is to accept the change. And if you want to know more about change,

just get a book, Who Took My Cheese. It's a very small book you can read in that many minutes, but it's actually giving us more about change. Wow. Those are seven life lessons you shared, I think six years ago now. Given what you've learnt over the past few years, are there any new ones you would add to that list? Not really. I'm still working on the seven.

I'm still working on planning is there that you need to plan. But I think the key seven is what actually driving us. What does the word happiness mean to you? I always tell people, let us be happy. Happiness means actually accepting change, accepting what's in your table, what's in your plate is what happiness means. Walk on those which you see and that's happiness. In terms of breaking records, of course, you've been someone who has made world records. You are still the only human being that we know of that has run under two hours, a marathon.

Okay. Recently someone I think you know very well, Faith Kipjagon has announced that she is going to try and become the first woman to run a sub four minute mile later this year. When you hear other athletes really expressing this idea that no human is limited, trying to do something that no human has done before. I don't know. How does it make you feel? I think the happiest man is myself. You know, especially how man saying that, for faith to run under four minutes will be a huge, huge day for women in this world.

It will show that women can do anything they put in their hearts and their minds. It will be a precious day and a beautiful day for the human family, especially on human and mothers. Carl's, human, mothers, anybody actually call any of the female in this world. That's their day. But it will help to celebrate because it's humanity. But above all, it's their day for the human.

Actually, it will be awesome. It will inspire Carl in India. It will inspire Carl in Macedonia. It will inspire Carl in South America, anywhere in this world to come up and do other thing which can create history. Because that's history. It's not about breaking the world record.

It will be a world record. but what matters is history. Yes. Elias, normally I finish off the conversation asking for advice for someone who's listening. But it's interesting as I spend more and more time with you and I'm struck by how humble you are, your humility, your lack of ego. And I unfortunately, I don't think that is as common as we might want it to be. Okay. So there will be people listening now who struggle with their ego, who know that they judge others

too much. They judge themselves too much. They look down on other people. They criticize other people. You're someone who appears to not do any of those things. So for that person who knows that this is a problem for them, what advice do you have for them on how they can reduce their ego and be a bit more humble like you? First and foremost is that anybody who has an ego, you should sit down, think well,

put the right side of yourself as a human being, the left side of yourself, put an ego. Put all those things you think you have achieved, which makes you to have an ego. On your left side. Just relax and behave like a human being. You know, I will tell you something. If you buy a bread, a loaf of bread, You cannot finish it alone. You will eat with the whole family, even for two days, even for two mornings. That means we cannot finish everything in this world. Let us not criticize anybody. You know, when you have been served lunch, try to eat your own food. Don't concentrate on seeing what your neighbor is eating.

What I'm trying to say is this. If you concentrate on what your neighbor is eating, yours will become cold and the neighbor will finish the food. You will see the neighbor finishing the food and you then you start eating. That's criticizing what somebody else is doing, leaving your own problem within yourself. What am I meaning? You are a problem yourself. So as a human being, let us put all the titles we have apart. You know, one of the Navy soldiers actually who were holding high ranking in US long time ago,

once said, if you want to be successful, make your own bed. It means solve the small things first before you go to the big things. But on the other hand, it means that make this bed because at the end of the day you will come back here. In that bed, you will sleep alone.

And you cannot show your hiko to yourself. You only show hiko to the rest of the population. Then what's the reason for being, for, for actually possessing an ego? If that ego, you can only show the rest of the population. I have those things you can do to yourself and to the population and sleep with it. The rest, whereby you can see that you can get rid of, just get rid of, because all of us, we are human. And no human is limited.

Absolutely, as no human is limited. And all of us must fight for the space. And that's the only way to enjoy life in this world. Elliot, it's been such a joy chatting to you on my show for the second time. You really are an inspirational human being. You're inspiring millions around the world, in the running worlds and outside of the running worlds. And thanks for making time to come back on my show.

Thank you very much. Lastly, I want to actually challenge all people who will be watching this podcast that for the next 15,000 days, where will you be? What contribution will you actually make to this planet? If you answer those questions, please let us work on it and we'll make this planet a beautiful one. Eled Kipchaki, thank you. Thank you very much. Really hope you enjoyed that conversation. Do think about one thing that you can take away and apply into your own life. And also have a think about one thing from this conversation that you

can teach to somebody else. Remember when you teach someone, it not only helps them, it also helps you learn and retain the information. Now before you go, just wanted to let you know about Friday 5. It's my free weekly email containing five simple ideas to improve your health and happiness. In that email, I share exclusive insights that I, I share exclusive insights that I do not share anywhere else, including health advice, how to manage your time better, interesting articles or videos that I've been consuming,

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