Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - Matthew McConaughey on How To Be More You #134

Episode Date: November 25, 2020

CAUTION ADVISED: this podcast contains swearing. When I started these podcasts, back in January 2018, my aim was to connect with people who had new and exciting views on how we can feel better and get more out of life. Little did I know that would lead me to today’s episode, where I chat to one of the world’s most famous Hollywood actors. Matthew McConaughey might not immediately spring to mind as a self-help guru. Yet for his 2014 Oscar acceptance speech he memorably shared some of the tenets by which he lives his life and to which he owes his success. And Matthew now shares his wisdom in his new book, ‘Greenlights: Raucous stories and outlaw wisdom’, which has already become a bestseller all over the globe. Based on the journals he’s kept since he was a teenager, it’s part autobiography, part guide to living – and 100 per cent inspiration. I was so pleased to learn Matthew wanted to come on the podcast and was prepared to give me 90 minutes of his time, something almost unheard of in stars of his magnitude. But as you’ll hear in this episode, Matthew isn’t your typical movie star. Authenticity is very important to Matthew, as is his quest to, in his words, “Be more me.” And that starts with eliminating what is not you. In Matthew’s own life, key examples include his decision to leave law school and become an actor, and later to turn down vast sums of money to leave the rom-com genre behind. Whilst he acknowledges the financial privilege that allowed him to take these risks, his lesson is about being true to yourself and your values, which is relevant for all of us. He says we should make sure we are feeding our soul account as well as our bank account, investing spiritually as well as financially. We cover so many topics during this entertaining chat, from our favourite U2 album to the current state of society as well as the incredible value of journaling. Whilst Matthew’s approach isn’t to give advice, there’s plenty of wisdom in the colourful stories and examples from his life that he shares. The beautiful thing about living, he says, is that you’re the author of your life’s story. So be cool to your future self. That’s some pretty awesome A-list advice I think we can all benefit from. Show notes available at drchatterjee.com/134 Follow me on instagram.com/drchatterjee/ Follow me on facebook.com/DrChatterjee/ Follow me on twitter.com/drchatterjeeuk DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

Look, our ultimate goal is, I think, is how can we be the most us in the true long form of communication, life. You know, this movie we're in that action was called one time, the day we were born, and cut will be called one time, the day we die. Now, what can we do in that take, in this take we're in? Hi, my name is Rangan Chatterjee. Welcome to Feel Better, Live More. Hello and welcome. Now, when I started these podcasts back in January 2018, my aim was to connect with people who had new and exciting views and how we can all feel better and get more out of life. Little did I know that that would lead me to today's episode, 20 million downloads on. Yes,

that's right. This podcast passed that incredible milestone about a week and a half ago, but I'm now in a position where I can chat to one of the world's most famous Hollywood actors in a position where I can chat to one of the world's most famous Hollywood actors on my own show. Now, Matthew McConaughey might not immediately spring to mind as a self-help guru, yet for his 2014 Oscar acceptance speech, he memorably shared some of the tenets by which he lives his life and to which he owes his success. And Matthew has now collected his hard-earned outlaw wisdom in his new book, Greenlights, which has become a bestseller all over the globe. Now, the book is absolutely fantastic. It's based on the journals that he's kept since he was a teenager.

And it's part autobiography, a part guide to living, but it is 100% inspiration. I was delighted to learn that Matthew wanted to come onto my show and was prepared to give me 90 minutes of his time, something that is almost unheard of in stars of his magnitude. But as you'll hear in today's episode, Matthew isn't your typical movie star. You see, authenticity is very important to Matthew, as is his quest to, in his words, be more me. And that starts with eliminating what is not you. In Matthew's own life, key examples include his decision to leave law school and become an actor, and later to turn down vast sums of money to leave the rom-com genre behind. Whilst he acknowledges the financial privilege that allowed him to take these risks,

his lesson is about being true to yourself and your values and is just as relevant for each and every single one of us. He says to make sure that you are feeding your soul account as well as your bank account, investing spiritually as well as financially. We cover so many topics during this entertaining chat, our favorite U2 album, the current state of society, as well as the incredible value of journaling. What I love about Matthew's approach is that he really doesn't want to give you advice, but by sharing so many colourful stories and examples from his life, the end result is that we feel inspired and learn from a huge amount of life wisdom that he has accumulated. The beautiful thing about living, he says, is that you're the author of your life story. So be cool and be

kind to your future self. And I think that's some pretty awesome A-list advice that we can all benefit from. I really, really enjoyed having this conversation and I'm pretty sure that you're going to enjoy listening just as much. Now, on to my conversation with the one and only Matthew McConaughey. I mean, how's it been for you? I mean, that's really interesting for me because you've been doing so much press and I've heard quite a few of the interviews. And what has it been like for you? Because you typically, I guess, would promote a movie. And you would probably do a certain kind of interview. But you're doing a lot of these long form conversations, whether it's Rogan,

Ferris on this show. How's that been for you? Wonderful. I mean, on a couple of reasons. One, as we were just talking about, it's these longer form talks. And I love context. And I love speaking about one thing and then having enough time in the conversation to speak about another subject and then loop it back in and go like we were talking about. You see how that applies to the earlier conversation? Because all of my thoughts usually have some connection or through line. The other thing besides like in the format is when I go make a movie. I am usually playing a character in scripts someone else wrote, directed by someone else,

lensed in a camera by someone else and edited by someone else before it gets to the theater and you get to see my work. That's four filters that my raw expression has to go through. Writing the book was one filter. I wrote it. I'm the main character in it. I edited it with help and then packaged it and hand it to you. So that's only one filter from my raw expression. And this is the truest permanent extension of me that I've ever put out. So it's been really fun talking about it. Now, I will say this. It helps that it's translating. It helps that people, you know, it's preceding me. Meaning if I go sell a product and I've done this with some movies that were not relating to people, people didn't like the movie or whatever. Those interviews are tough because I'm having to push it. I'm almost having to solicit. I'm having to bring up.

Oh, but what about this? Did you get this? If it's a good piece of art and it has an identity, if it's a movie, the interviewer will have all kinds of questions because they've seen it and it affected them. They related to it and they're coming back and engaging with me on that conversation. Like this book, so far it's translating to people. So people have plenty of questions for me. That makes this an easy thing to talk about because the subject matters have been diverse. We've covered almost all the book over a month and everyone's got different things they like or relate to it about. That makes it much more easier than me trying to solicit you about why maybe you should like it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that makes a lot of sense.

And the word that comes to mind as you're describing that is authenticity. And there are so many bits of the book, which I have resonated with. There's too many pencil marks in it, frankly, to go through everything in this conversation. But I'll tell you one of the ones which really got me, and it's in the front cover here in the UK version and the inside cover. You start off, you say, you know, I've been in this life for 50 years. You say a few more things, but you finish off that paragraph saying, I've learned how to be fair, how to have less stress, how to have fun, how to hurt people less, how to get hurt less, how to be a good man,

how to have meaning in life. But then this is it for me this is the killer line how to be more me yeah and matthew i really want to expand upon that because this is something i feel i've been on a journey with over the last five or six years um i feel having a public profile here in the UK has certainly accelerated that process. But even looping back to what we were saying about long-form conversation, I have made a very intentional move to going away from short-form, bite-sized media. Despite all the recommendations, I go, no, I'm going to do long-form podcasting. I'm going to have long-form conversation.

And my videographer, Gareth, who's sitting here at the moment videoing, he's been really working with me on this whole idea of being authentic. How can I be the same person when this mic's not in front of me, when the mic is there? And so that line, how to be more me, that resonated deeply right into my soul. to be more me, that resonated deeply right into my soul. Hmm. Heard. Yeah.

Well, hopefully that line resonates individually and originally with everybody individually. I mean, I'm open to argument, but I think isn't that what we're all trying to do, whether we know it or not? open to argument, but I think isn't that what we're all trying to do, whether we know it or not? It's a constant, you know, adventure, sometimes extremely challenging. You know, I go into it in the book about it's very hard to know who we are. It's very hard to know what it is we want to do. And so to take some pressure off that situation, maybe first let's eliminate the things in our lives that are not what we want to do. Meaning if you're if, for instance, if you were still finding your way in long form, well, you got you. You made the choice to say no more short form. And I want more time to sit here and be more myself. You eliminated something that was abbreviating who you were or your expression of

yourself. Some people are very good in short form. It's like, you know, somebody, some people can make a 30 second ad better than they can make an epic documentary or a movie. And there's a real talent to that. And you can still be authentic in that, but it's usually, you know, just a greatest hits version. It's not an entire album. it's not an entire album it's not an entire anthology and that's what longer form allows us to do i mean look our ultimate goal is i think is you know how can we be the most us in the true long form of communication life you know the this this this movie we're in that action was called one time the day we were born and cut will be called one time the day we die. Now, what can we do in that take in this take we're in?

It's a wonderful, wild adventure, but I've always been interested in interrogating and investing, investigating myself. always been interested in interrogating and investing, investigating myself. You know, and it goes between, sometimes I'll write the headline first, who it is I want to be, who I'm trying to be, who I am in 10 years. And then I'll try to live the story towards that headline. Other times I'm like, no, I don't want to be aspirational right now. I just want to just be. And flaws, scars, bumps, warts, and all. Let's just be that. Don't deny those things. Let's just look them in the eye and go from embarrassment to laughter about those things or from shame to forgiveness about those things. So I usually try to balance between those two. And, you know, yeah, I can see nothing.

Nothing's more entertaining for an individual to do than to get to know themselves. And that can start with getting to know who they're not, but boy, that never gets old. And it's never going to change because we never have a moment where we go, ta-da, I got it. Now I know exactly who I am. No, because as soon as we get to that place, we're like, yes, I feel secure in who I am. I'm seeing the world clearly. The world is reverbing back to me what I'm giving to it. As soon as we hit that place, if we have any ambition at all, we open up a whole new treasure

chest of questions and evolution to live through. Yeah. It's funny, isn't it? When we think about that phrase, in some ways, it should be the easiest thing in the world to be more of ourselves, right? In some ways, some people may be listening going, well, you know, I am me. Of course, I'm being me. But the problem is many of us, and I certainly have been for a lot of my life, I kind of feel I'm on this fast track to discovering myself. I think it's the best journey I've ever been on. It's the best game in town. It's the one that keeps stimulating me and keeping me going day in, day out. But why do so many of us then perform at life?

Do you know what I mean? What is it? What goes on that means we have to go on this journey to actually find out who we actually really are? Well, you know, the world is our mirror. You know, I said earlier about how when those times when I'm feeling the most me and what I'm giving out is reverbing back to me. You know, what my soul is giving out, I'm getting a like response from the world. That reciprocity is when I'm like, oh, there's no gap between who I am and what people are or what I'm doing and what people are receiving and what they're giving back.

But a lot of times there is a big gap there. Expectations. If you get in a position, you know, to whatever extent we're both in it, of being known. People have a hidden biography of us before we meet. I remember when I first got famous, over one weekend, my life changed. It just inverted. All of a sudden, the world was a mirror. I didn't meet any more strangers. And not only did I not meet strangers, people came up and go, oh my gosh, how's Ms. Hud? And I'm in my mind going, wait a minute, I don't know your name. How'd you know I had a dog? How'd you know her name was Ms. Hud? And how'd you know she was diagnosed with cancer? You just skipped four things and came right up and said that. So, you know, we, there's often times that we have to put on different hats and play

different parts and know our zone. And there's an art to that. Now, can we do that authentically as well and still be ourself wearing that particular hat or playing that particular role and still be ourselves doing that? Because we have everybody in us. Everybody has everybody else in them. Humanity is in all of us. I answer this question all the time when people ask me about my job acting, where you're playing someone else. I said, no, when I do it really well, I'm actually playing more of that part that's in myself. But I mean, expectations, you know, sometimes I love to say this. Sometimes we look better than we feel and sometimes we feel better than we look. But what's really nice is when we look just about as good as we feel, we feel just about as good as we look.

There's no gap between those two, you know, but it's a similar situation. I think a relationship with the world, we have expectations of ourselves. Other people have expectations for us, whether they're right on the money and accurate or not. That can sometimes be the battle. accurate or not, that can sometimes be the battle. I've succeeded at times when the world was not seeing me as I truly am. And I sat there and was like, maybe I should just let this ride, you know, because I'm getting bank on this. I'm getting certain respect on this. But actually, that's not even really who I am. Or there was times where you ever had fans that you're like, boy, my biggest fan to me, I'm not really fans of them. You know, what's really nice is when you go, oh, someone who's a genuine fan of me and who

I am, I was a genuine fan of them. So again, there goes that lack of that gap where what you're giving out is what's being received and it's coming back. But that doesn't always happen. For athletics use as a metaphor, golf. Just like if you're a golfer, which I used to play a lot of golf. When I'm playing really well, it is so easy. Being ourselves when we are being ourselves is so easy, but the challenge is thinking, ah, I've got it. I'll be on this frequency forever. Yeah. But no, we get thrown off. Either we throw ourself off or the world throws us off like a

golf swing. When I'm sitting there playing great, this is the easiest game in the world. Yeah. So, playing great this is the easiest game in the world yeah so but then you can also overcompensate a truth you can overcompensate and exaggerate something that is one of your own assets meaning like for a golf stance if i've got an open stance and i'm trying to get rid of my slice and i start to close my stance a little bit and someone goes oh look you didn't notice it but your stance is way wide open that's why you're you're you're you're behind the ball and you're slicing i closed my stance a little bit now i'm hitting it straight well if i don't watch it two weeks later i've overcompensated and i've closed my stance four more inches and now i'm snap hooking the ball yeah you know so you can you can all of a sudden overcompensate and become too much and do the opposite and find an inauthenticity on the other

side as well um but i guess in golf in golf you have if you have a coach the coach picks that up for you right you don't know you're doing it yourself the coach says hey did you know actually you're actually you're setting up with a closed stance you're like really no i thought i was uh i was dancing square so then when we use the golfing metaphor in life who is the coach in our lives that's going to tell us when we're not lining up straight well ultimately it is us ultimately it is the man in the mirror. It just also depends on what mirror we're looking in. Are we looking at one of those skinny mirrors that's down there on the boulevard in Beverly Hills that makes us look taller and thinner and younger? Are we looking at one of those ugly mirrors that make us look fatter and uglier and older? Or are we looking at one that's actually looking the square in the eye and going, yeah, that's what I look like. That's who I am. Now, I know I have loved ones around

me that can help nudge me, nudge me back to being who I am while still understanding that, oh, this is a change you're going through. You're trying to evolve. But as long as you don't forget your core values, great. One of those is my wife. I have good friends. You know, challenge in my position is with success, some people just can yes you to death. Yes. Yes. Awesome. Love it. Great. Oh, more. And they're not really measuring off of your true of my true authenticity or my true competency to be who I am because maybe they're just like yes oh that's awesome and like it's a good measure sometimes I even you know in testing relationships out sometimes and even business relationships I will try something that I know is inauthentic and see what that person's response is. And if they're like, oh my gosh, that's it. That's so awesome. Like, nah, you don't really see me, uh, straight. Um,

I thought you might, but I had a hunch you didn't. And now you've confirmed that you don't really see the same truth that I, that I see. I mean, what I hear when you say that is, see. I mean, what I hear when you say that is, is that you're someone who's spent the time to really get to know yourself, what makes you tick, what is authentic for you, what is inauthentic, and therefore you now have systems and practices around you to make sure that the way you live is in alignment with that. But what I see is many people who don't really know who they are, have not taken the time to know who they are, who basically are living somebody else's life. They're living the life that maybe their parents wanted for them. In my profession in medicine, I see this a lot. Guys who, men, women who

frankly ended up in medicine because that's what their parents wanted for them. And they're locked in now with the mortgage and school fees and whatever else. And they can't see and they feel trapped, which is why they drink so much at the weekend or go gambling or some way of letting off steam. and what I find really amazing, and I was chatting to my kids about this, actually, I told them I was interviewing you, and I was saying, because they're at the moment getting into journaling, and it's something I've been sort of talking to them about, you know, I have a 10-year-old son, a seven-year-old daughter, and they're currently journaling every day, and I said, did you know the guy Danny's interviewing on Friday night, he's been journaling for 35 years, since he was 14, they're like, what, really, yeah, and I said, he's been journaling for 35 years since he was 14. They're like, what? Really? Yeah. And I said, that's a book now. He's put it all into a book. These guys are like mesmerized with that. But I'm thinking, I journal, but I didn't journal when I was 14 years old. So why did you start

journaling? Was that something that you saw around you? Was it something that was intuitive to you? Because it's such a phenomenal life skill. It's such a phenomenal tool to start getting to know yourself. Where did that come from in you? or readers or voyeurs or viewers. We were a, if it's daylight outside, get outside and play. You can't watch TV or read a book because why would you want to read or watch somebody do something that you can go out there and do yourself? That was my mom's kind of line. So we were not an introspective family. We weren't calloused introspect. And we just almost we were so resilient. We almost denied wintertime. And I always tell my mom, this mom, our greatest asset is resilience.

I said, there's a loophole in resilience, though. If you get if you if you trip and fall down and every time you trip and fall down, resilience though. If you trip and fall down and every time you trip and fall down, you get up and you dust yourself off so quickly and move on, you become a repeat offender of stepping in the same pothole that you tripped on because you never actually took time to go, now, why did I fall down right there? So the why did I fall down right there was probably my original reason for diarying and writing in my journal, but it was normal adolescent, 14 year old. Oh, Gretchen broke up with me. My heart's broken. Why did she break up with me and why do I have all these pimples on my face and wait, will they ever go away? And when, you know,

that kind of stuff to begin with. And then asking those wonderful youthful questions, the big one, why to everything, which every child asks and continues to ask. And then the why turned into the who, what, where, when, how, everything was a question mark. And just the asking of the question was part of finding myself, I think, because I didn't find answers to some of those questions until yesterday, you know, and the days since then. But the early, my teens were a lot of those questions. Then something interesting happened in my early 20s. I started to find

my stride. I was at University of Texas at Austin. I was making the grades. Mom and dad were happy. My relationships were healthy. I had a nice girlfriend. I was in the fraternity. I had a job. I had 40 bucks in my back pocket. I was looking forward to Monday morning, life was kind of rolling. And I remember, I don't know where this came from, but I remember going, Ooh, you don't, you don't really, you're not going to your diary as much. You're not going to your journals as much. And I was like, yeah, cause I'm rolling what I need to go do. And I was like, I got a hunch. You need to keep writing about what you're doing now, because it might help you out later. And it turned out to be true, meaning when I got in another rut, which we all do when we need to remember that when we're all just rolling and on time and everything's just sunny for us.

We need to even though we think like to tell ourselves, well, this is the mean now. Right. I'll never get off this because I found it negatory. for us. Even though we think like to tell ourselves, well, this is the mean now, right? I'll never get off this because I found it. Negatory. You'll get off it or someone will knock you off of it. But what I found is I was able to go back when I was in a rut. I was able to go back to my diaries for when I was dissecting my success. So we're so taught to dissect failure. And what I found is I was able when at times I was in a rut to go back and go, what were your habits here in your life when you were rolling, when you were on your frequency, who are we hanging out with? Where were you going? How much sleep were you getting? What were you having to drink? How are you waking up in the morning?

How are you looking at the world? How is your, did you have your wink? How is your sense of humor meter at? So I was able to look back and go, find some older habits when things were going well that helped me recalibrate and get back in line in times where I was off my frequency or off balance. I mean, one of the first things when I was reading your book and researching for this conversation today

was I thought that is so cool. You journal when you're good. And so you can back reference when things aren't going well. Hey, what was I doing when I was flying, when I was rolling, when I was running downhill? What was I doing? And it strikes me that it's such a useful practice for people that really will help everyone understand because, you know, we never stay on top forever, right? There's always an up, there's always a down, there's a wave, like it goes up, it goes down. And it's a nice little reminder. But what, you know, you said you had a hunch that that would come in useful. Yeah.

And it strikes me that you have a lot of, or you have had a lot of good hunches in your life. Starting journaling was a pretty good hunch. You know, journaling when you're good, not just when you're bad, was a pretty good hunch. The other hunches, which I love about your story, is this idea that many of us in our mid, you know, in our mid lives start to try and find ourselves, right? Start to think about things like values. But again, I think you were ahead of the game because it sounds like at various times in your life, so you're at college, you're at university, you're doing law, and you really feel that it's not the career for you, right? So you know that something's not sitting right. But many of us at that point know something's not sitting right,

but we drink our ways through it. We keep going. We don't have the courage to step off the treadmill. And we end up at 30, 40, 50 in jobs that we hate, in relationships that we don't like. And we end up at 30, 40, 50 in jobs that we hate, in relationships that we don't like. But you knew to have a career change then. And then also when you've made that career change, when you're successful, when you're the rom-com king, I've heard the story where you actually decided, man, you know what? I can kind of do these in my sleep. They're not really pushing me. They're not giving me something deeper that I'm craving. This is not aligned with my values. I'm not going to do it anymore. So that is, you know, do you realize, I mean, I feel that is incredible insight, intuition, hunches, whatever you want to

call it, because I don't think everyone's got that. And where do you think that has come from? Great question. Because, I mean, I have had some good hunches. Not all of them have succeeded. I've had some hunches that I've failed at as well. But I've always had a pretty good one. I don't know where I... I don't know where it came from, but I've always had a sense of the very long view.

Meaning, you know, oh, just try and pull it off. Make the decision. I dare you. Even if it doesn't work, it's not as big of a deal. Where someone else may go, no, it's a huge deal. I'm going, no, not really. Not in the long term. Not in the long game.

Not long. It's not really. Let's see. i don't know i gotta find out i'll regret not while i'll regret not putting myself in the ring you know i'll regret not wrestling michelle and in in africa in that story more than if i go wrestling and get my ass beat you know what i mean i at least i just want to find out I want I want to know um you know I could say a lot of that was probably instilled in me being my mom and my parents but I think very early on I I I didn't have I had a I had a healthy amount of non-reverence for the damn outcome yeah you know I had a healthy amount of, well, I got to find out. I'll work it out when I get there. If it doesn't work out, I'll find my footing somewhere else. So maybe that's called confidence. I don't know. I also love to pull

things off. I love to take it. I love to dare myself about the right things and try and do them. Yeah. You know, you spoke of a bunch of circumstances, one being like the two-year rom-com hiatus after those. It was going against my values. I wanted to see if I could pull off having a career and a job that challenged the vitality I was feeling in my real life where I just had a newborn son. I was just falling in love with the woman for me. Boy, I was so vital. I laughed harder, had more joy, cried harder, was angrier, everything. The ceiling and the basement of my emotions were wild and wonderful. And I felt very alive at my work. I was like, OK.

So I said, I remember saying, well, it's got to be one way or the other. I'm glad your life feels more vital than your work, but let's at least try and get work, see if it can challenge the vitality. And that was part of that two years off. It just wasn't. And I did in that two years, I considered other careers. I thought I may not come back and work and I didn't boohoo on that I didn't I wasn't if that would have happened meaning if I would have never got offered the jobs that brought me back into cinema I'd be fine right now I don't know maybe I would have taken up law maybe I would have been a fourth grade teacher

orchestral conductor I don't know I would have done something I grade teacher, orchestral conductor. I don't know. I would have done something. I got, you know, and maybe that's comes from also we're, we were taught early on. You get up there and you better go hustle for it. We come from a family of salesmen. You can sell. I've always like, I can sell something, something. I'm not going to be, I'm not going to go hungry because I could sell something. And ended up in a, in a position to be able to sell my greatest you know thing i value the most sell myself um and that leads back kind of to your opening

question about authenticity boy i mean look let's admit it. And I don't think not everyone, we can't all do what we love, can we? I mean, wouldn't unemployment be just sky high if everyone only did what they loved? It's a good question. I bring up, my brother says that to me and I'm like, yeah, I guess you're kind of right. I don't think we can the way the world is currently set up, that's for sure.

I mean, I'd like to think, you know, when people talk about technology and AI and how it might change things, there's lots of pros and cons, but I do, you know, I'm an optimist, right? I always think the best is going to turn out, the best is going to happen. I think, well, maybe society will change to the point where technology will end up doing all the roles and the jobs that we don't like doing. So we can actually all, you know, tap into our creative cells and actually be yeah i love that idea is it is it am i dreaming probably but you know i kind of i kind of like dreaming i like it i hear you i hear you i hadn't thought of it that way yeah maybe technology could do that do all the stuff we

don't like to do and then we become better parents we become more creative and and how we engage with the world and each other and you know not everyone becomes artists but we all get better at the art of living yeah the art of living i'm going to come back to that because that's something i circled uh when i read it um But Matthew Greenlight, that's the name of the book. It's an awesome name. What is a greenlight? Just taking a quick break to give a shout out to AG1, one of the sponsors of today's show. Now, if you're looking for something at this time of year to kickstart your health, I'd highly recommend that you consider AG1. AG1 has been in my own life for over five years now.

It's a science-driven daily health drink with over 70 essential nutrients to support your overall health. It contains vitamin C and zinc, which helps support a healthy immune system, something that is really important, especially at this time of year. It also contains prebiotics and digestive enzymes that help support your gut health. prebiotics, and digestive enzymes that help support your gut health. All of this goodness comes in one convenient daily serving that makes it really easy to fit into your life, no matter how busy you feel. It's also really, really tasty. The scientific team behind AG1 includes experts from a broad range of fields, including longevity, preventive medicine, genetics, and biochemistry. I talk to them regularly and I'm really impressed with their

commitment to making a top quality product. Until the end of January, AG1 are giving a limited time offer. Usually, they offer my listeners a one-year supply of vitamin D and K2 and five free travel packs with their first order. But until the end of January, they are doubling the five free travel packs to 10. And these packs are perfect for keeping in your backpack, office, or car. If you want to take advantage of this limited time offer, all you have to do is go to drinkag1.com forward slash live more. That's drinkag1.com forward slash live more. A green light is very literally a thing on this highway of life that says, Go. Continue. I affirm your way. Carry on, sir.

Freedom. More. Yes. Yes. Red and yellow light are hardships, crises, things that make us slow down, think, ponder, introspect, jackknife, interrupt, intervene. Death, someone gets sick. They stop us, slow us down. We don't like them. Found that green lights in our lives are a lot about our own choices. We can engineer them. We have the choices we make.

We can engineer them to have more of them in our future. When we are responsible for our present. I found that sometimes green lights just fall on our lap. We don't have any science or reason about how or how or why they landed here, but damn, I'm glad they did. So what am I going to do with it? I found that green lights are sometimes about perspective. Sometimes the green lights can be about actually not even give the,

giving the crisis of the red or yellow light credit and blowing through them. Nah, that dart don't stick. I'm not letting that stick. That's false trauma. Nuh-uh. I'm denying that because I've been in my own red and yellow lights before. And you can dwell in a yellow light and turn that into a red light. And you can dwell in a yellow light and turn that into a red light.

You can self-sabotage and dwell in a yellow light and turn that baby deep red. Well, I prefer to go the other way, turning green. I think they're about responsibility and fate. I think they're about responsibility and freedom. I think they're about responsibility and freedom. And there are a lot about that relationship of responsibility and freedom, how we are responsible for our freedom and how there's great freedom in responsibility. Again, those two not being contradictions. And while we don't want yellow and red lights, I've found that most oftentimes they're actually giving us something that we need. And when do we know or notice that the red and yellow lights in our life are actually have a lesson woven into them?

Sometimes we realize it in the moment. We may not know what it is, but sometimes we realize, I know this is good for me somehow. I just't know why. It's a good thing I'm going through this. Sometimes we notice it tomorrow, the next day, sometimes we'll notice it on our deathbed. And I think that probably sometimes we'll notice the green light assets of a red and yellow light. We may not even notice them in this lifetime. It may be our great, great grandkids that realized what that lesson was three generations from now. There's also different kind of green light. Some of them are battery powered. They're short term.

That's fine. But what I'm really seeking, and I think most everyone in some level is seeking, is what are those solar powered green lights? The ones that are going to shine on for us longer and brighter in our future. And continue to shine after we're gone from this life um that's the ones i'm trying to chase it's not the ones i always catch because here's the other thing if life was nothing but green lights literal green lights it'd be like well so what's it all about i mean all just entertainment you know which it's not so we need the yellows and the reds to have some form we need those resistances those things that slow us down gravity you know to red lights that stop us in our tracks to help us grow and evolve yeah yeah i love it but matthew when i

when i think of you i think of someone who's really a philosopher, actually someone who has so much deep philosophical wisdom to share. I wonder if that surprises people or not, if people have just seen your films before. I don't know. I'm interested as whether that has surprised people because there is such wonderful depth and take-home value, I think, for all of us in the book. But as I read it, I think, and you mentioned golf. So I think a nice analogy in golf is, I took up golf, I think, in my late 20s. It was quite late to take it up. I had back problems at the time. And my physio at the time said, you know, what about golf? I said, what, really? With a bad back? She said, yeah, yeah, you can, if you learn to swing the golf

club properly, there's no problem with a bad back. I thought, ah, okay, cool. Right. That's given me, so I went all in. I went all into golf. I chucked myself in because I thought all my buddies can play. There's no way I'm rucking up not being able to play and actually play as well as them. But what was interesting is with golf lessons, you sort of, there's a root cause swing fault that's often there and you get better and your handicap starts coming down. But when you're not playing well, you go back to the coach. Oh, it's the same swing fault I had three years ago. Five years later, your handicap's down. You know, I only played competitively two, three years. I got down to, I think, 14 or 15, and then I haven't been able to play since then. But it's the same swing fault that keeps coming out. No

matter how good you get, it's always the same problem. And then using that as a metaphor, if we look at your life, what is that, I wouldn't use the word flaw, what is that characteristic, that trait that keeps coming up, that you work on, and then you move forward, but when things aren't going well, when you're going uphill, what's that fault that keeps holding you back great question it's my swing fault that has held me back um confidence what is sometimes my greatest asset and is my is my upfall can be I challenge myself to, you know, when I'll put a proverbial roof over my head of what I think I can accomplish or do. And all of a sudden catch myself and go, where do you get off? Who do you think you are putting a roof over your head about what you can do boy and i i feel very arrogant about that and then have to go when i think i'm thinking more clearly it's like no we're not even tapping into the 11 man what are you talking about you know it's the old oh oh oh i talk about it in the art of running downhill. It's the, it's the, oh,

oh, Icarus. Oh, the sun's melting the wax at my wings. And when you look over, you're like, boy, it's barely even warm. You think it's melting? That wax is barely even warm, son. Who do you think you are thinking you're flying so high? Now, you know, you could look at that and go, well, have I also flown high and maybe let my ego get out of control, which I would call an out of control ego, not true confidence, but let it get out of control where maybe I could have treated others better and treated myself or maybe got complacent because aha look at me yeah I've been guilty of that as well um but confident I don't have a

crisis of confidence but I have times where like here's the thing this is this is a great way to explain it I'm always better in real life than I've ever been in my damn dreams I never pull the stuff off I pull off in life in my dreams and I've ever been in my damn dreams. I never pull the stuff off I pull off in life in my dreams. And I get nervous before situations and have a crisis of confidence. I'm like, oh my gosh. And then after I get in the, I'm in the ring, ding, ding, I do it. 99% of the time, I'm like, you were better. You did it more truly than you thought you would. It's okay. Where are those butterflies early healthy? And where are they? Cut the crap, McConaughey.

Quit acting. Have more confidence and walk forward boldly. Go do it. Believe in yourself more than you do. So I would say that's one thing that for whatever mountains I uh for whatever mountains i've climbed i've climbed quite quite a few whatever things i've achieved and i've achieved some mortal things um there's a lot more and a lot of different things that i i could do and more of what i'm doing that i haven't yet found the confidence and the clarity for with which to

do it. And it may just be me going, Hey, throw yourself in the ring. Quit talking about it. Cause that has been a great gift of mine. Just come, let's find out. Yeah. Come on, quit talking about it and put ding, ding, no audition. Don't ask permission. Go. Yeah. Find out. Yeah. No, I like that. I liked that a a lot i think that has a lot of value for people as well to think because you know you have all the ticks on what society defines as success or what a lot of people in society define as success you've got a lot of those things ticked off and then for people to hear that sometimes you have an issue with confidence, I think that's very, probably very comforting for many people who might be struggling with confidence in their own lives to hear that. So I think that's, yeah, it's pretty, I think it's really great that you share that.

share that. You know, it's funny when I've been, when we secured the interview with you, I went through a certain record in my mind, which was, which is, oh man, I've got a proper A-lister on the show. Oh wow, this is the first time. And I was thinking, oh man, he's done Rogan, he's done Ferris. Oh my God. You're going to have to step it up. And this record started playing. And it was really interesting is that the Rangan of two or three years ago would have had imposter syndrome in this conversation. But I've been doing a ton of personal work. Since my dad died, actually, almost eight years ago, and we'll maybe come to that. But it's really interesting is that I don't feel it anymore. And actually, a few days ago, I said to myself, are you really nervous about it? And I thought, I'm not. It's like a jacket that used to fit me. And I think I need to wear it,

but it just doesn't fit good anymore. And I was like, I'm really not. And I think, wow, maybe this therapy has helped me. Maybe I'm actually not feeling the imposter syndrome. And I started looking and thinking, well, actually, I see a lot of similarities between Matthew and myself. I feel that you're someone who's always striving for excellence in anything you do. I could be wrong on that, but that's certainly the feel I get. I get the feel you're going to chuck yourself into something without actually sometimes thinking, can I do this or not, which is very much my modus operandi. I'm just going to chuck myself in. I'm going to sink or swim. I love your story when you played golf with your brother that you write about in Greenlights and the quick thinking you had to do with the dog and the blindness.

And people can read about that. It's a brilliant story. And I thought, man, that sounds like me going with my buddies to like a Ryan Adams gig and without tickets and actually talking us into the kind of front circle. We were definitely on the guest list. You know, the sort of stuff I used to do in my twenties. And I felt a real, a real connection to you. And then yesterday I heard your Spotify playlist. Um, and I went to my mom's house this morning and I pulled out my vinyl copy of, can you see that? Yes. One of my favorites, all time rattle and hum. Me too. And I thought, well, this is pretty cool. We share a very similar,

this is one of my favorite albums of all time. And I would not, however, have chosen Silver and Gold like you did. So why is Silver and Gold your favorite song on this album? Well, I've got quite a few favorite songs on that album. Silver and Gold is on there because it was, you know, written at a time when I believe it was Little Stephen, Bono talks about in the song, putting a group together, artists against apartheid. And, you know, it's a song about what's really, where are our values? Where do they really lie?

You want to hit them where it hurts? Silver and gold, baby. What's a boxer told when he goes in the ring? Hit where it hurts man knock them out everything else is a bunch of pageantry you really want to get something done it's about silver and gold baby that i added that particular song in this really recent spotify list one to represent that album which they can read the book to find out some other very funny things about me listening to that album but that's a very timely message for today yeah of where we are because it's still

money's still king now should it be king that's the question that's that's the question we bring up but we have to admit you know that that that's still key when we in America four years ago are going, I cannot believe I got a lot of friends. I could cannot believe Trump was in office. I'm like, well, hang on a second before we even get into details. What do we say success is in America? What do you get respect for in America? Money and fame, baby. This guy's on a TV show and he's got a lot of money. I mean, that's already, you know, I mean, forget even what his personal politics are. That'll get you at the table, at the biggest table, right there. And we teach that. We tell you that's why you get respect. We tell you that's why you get respect we tell you that's how you make it so

I sit here from a privileged position of also being someone who has both of those money and fame but those have never been at the top of my list of what I value and what I'm really wanting to chase or chased long before I became rich and famous. Those are not what I was chasing. The side effect, right? Yeah. Well, I appreciate them and I have nothing against money and fame. That's not what I'm saying, but they were, you know, what's that line? I was doodling with this line the other day. You know, I'm responsible for where I am, but. Where I am is also responsible for.

Where I've been anyway, I think I'm mucking that up, but it was a you know, I am part of who I am. And I think I'm mucking that up, but it was a, you know, I am part of who I am. I've always thought that, you know, who I am, just keep living, who I am in life needs to have, must have the most import before who I am once I became famous. Fame, because you can, you can get fame and you can start going, wait, who's wagging the dog? Am I now the dog or the tail? You know what I mean? And I was always like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I've got rights as a human. I've got rights as a citizen. I've got rights as a man. I've got rights as me that I am not going to bow down to or kowtow kowtow down to because I am famous no no no that's cart before the horse that's got to go the other way around if I become famous because I can be more me great if I can make money because I can be more me great now I do I always make mommy's success

as being the most me like I said earlier sometimes I've gotten away with it without going with making oh I'm really succeeding this is without going with making, oh, I'm really succeeding. This is not truly me. And I have measured. I'm not so puritanical where I'm going, well, I'm not doing it. But I have gone, well, let me just measure this. Is that in the green or is it in the red? Is that an asset or a debit? Well, it's not really harming anybody. So I'll let it slide sometimes. You know what I mean? Well, it's not really harming anybody, so I'll let it slide sometimes. You know what I mean? Where maybe it's not the most authentic me.

Maybe I'm not telling the most truth on me. Maybe I'm just trying to get through it without telling a lie. That's not near as fun as being more me and finding, you know, 10 ways to tell the truth and express myself that can be successful. It's much less fun to just go through something and go, well, this is really kind of good for my bank account. And it's getting me a lot of accolade and respect. And it's not necessarily totally true,

but at least I'm not telling a lie. So it's sort of a lie by omission a little bit, but I've succeeded that way too. But I've chose silver and Gold because of that. It is a very, it's a great tune for these times to call us out. And they are, you know, spitting it on that album. Am I bugging you? Didn't mean to bug you.

You know, I mean, Bono and the boys are just slinging it on that i've been calling it out all the contradictions they're not even judging it you know i mean they're just throwing it in our face and then and that that song is a great representation of that and very relative and relevant to where we are today and what i think we should at least be aware of and hopefully question yeah yeah wonderful to hear that um it's funny that you know when for people who are u2 fans it's often not the album that comes up and the reason i say that is i remember when i was at university there was this this kind of late night bar called Negotiants. It was opposite the student union in Edinburgh. And, you know, if we'd been out to some pubs or seeing some bands play on the way home,

we'd often just stop in for a few pints, a kind of big plate of nachos. And we used to fantasize about what 10 albums would we take if we were on a desert island and there was always this debate because we're all big U2 fans there's three or four of us and we'd fight like my buddy Luke was saying mate acting baby definitely I'm like no mate Rattle and Hum man it's raw it's kind of it's dirty um Joshua Tree yeah and we used to so it was it was lovely for me when I heard you say Rattling Home was one of your favorite albums.

Yeah, it brought me back. So I've actually not heard it for a few years until this morning again because of our conversation. So thank you for bringing it back into my life. Even look at the cover.

It was Bono on stage. He's like, that's how the whole album feels. He's went and grabbed a stage light. Like not a light that he was a prop and grabbed a stage light like not a light that he was a prop but a stage light you don't know put it on the edge playing guitar it was like they were not asking permission when they made this album and it was there were no barriers there were no boundaries for them and uh it's a very aspirational album but it's very very honest

yeah i think the word aspirations is very apt if I think about my relationship to it also, because I feel that back then, I feel I was very insecure. I didn't know who I was, you know, at the age of 21, 22, you know, you're trying to find yourself in the world. I certainly wasn't aware enough to, you know, think I wasn't on the right career path and phone my dad and tell him that I'm going to change it like you did. But I think for me, there was something, you know, I'm the son of two Indian immigrants, grew up in the north of England. And there was something about the album Americana, cowboy boots, the iconic black and white photography. It took me to another place, an aspirational place where one day I might get to. Yeah.

But back to values and authenticity, which is really underpinning a lot of this conversation so far. I've heard you tell the story about you getting offered a lot of money to do a rom-com when you had already made the decision that you're not going to. And it kept coming. And they keep coming back with more money. And you can tell the story as you wish to. But what I really want to get to is, how is that relevant to someone who's not in Hollywood? And what I mean by that is, what if someone says, well, Matthew, it's all right for you because actually you were probably, and again, people are making assumptions because they don't know, but you were probably

financially okay. So maybe you could turn down a movie script for several million dollars. Whereas me, I can't do that. I hate my job. I don't like it. This conversation about values has no relevance to me because I've just got to keep a roof over my head and I've got to put food in my kid's mouth. It's a very good argument. I'd have to go back to how it's relative, though, to anyone.

It's not necessarily the lesson in that story is not necessarily what that dollar amount is or how many zeros are behind that offer. And the fact that, yes, I did turn down money that some people would hope to make in a lifetime. the relevance is I, to say yes to that. Again, I wouldn't have found out. We've done, there are certain things that we can say yes to that we have. We should, we should take time to go. Is this short money?

Meaning for me, not my bank account. This may load my bank account, but is it short money for me? It's not dirty money. If I'd have done the rom-com for that money, like I said earlier, that wouldn't have been a bad thing. It would have been a debit to the world, but it definitely would have been like an asset. I would have been getting away with not telling a lie rather than doubling down on telling the truth on myself. And that's okay. I just, it wasn't for me at that time. So what are

those things that come up in front of us that we can say yes to? But when we can't, there's any question. See how far in your future you can go. I try to go 10 years. I'm trying to go all the way to eulogy. But sometimes that's too far for us to go. Sometimes we can only go a week ahead in our mind or a month ahead in our mind or a year ahead in our mind. Well, go as far as you can go and look back and go, what kind of residuals is this choice that I'm going to make now going to be given me then? What will I think about it then? Is this really, you know, a some of our that if I had taken that offer for that romcom, that had been a green light. But it wouldn't have been a solar powered green light.

It would have been a battery powered green light. It would not have fed it wouldn't have shown it wouldn't have been one of those green lights that shines eternally for the rest of my my time here it would have been something that i'd be sitting here probably wouldn't be sitting here talking to you right now if i'd have done that wouldn't have probably got to have the life i have right now or sure i don't think i've been able to write the book i don't think i wrote the book i think I'd have enough to put in the book worth writing if I wouldn't have made that choice.

So what are those things that we get that come in front of us that we can go yes to? And immediately they can gratify us. In the short term, they can gratify us. That's a battery-powered green light. I chose to go, no, no i'm gonna go find out trust me my my my mom and my brothers were like what is your problem what are you talking about saying no yeah well you got a chance to work what else are you doing i said well i'm gonna what do you mean go to work

we go to where you if you can get work you go go to work and they're going to pay you what? And you're saying, no, you're out of your mind. And I'm like, yep. And they were like, well, we knew you were, but okay. And it paid off. It was about stopping doing something in my life that was not paying me back to my soul. My bank account was fine, but it was about, there are things that come to us again.

Bring out the album, Rattle and Hum again. There are things that come up that are silver and gold that can be right there. And wow. And yes, sometimes, man, you get the opportunity to take them, but sometimes we're in a position to go, this may be good for my bank account, but it's not really going to feed my soul's account. And if you're in a position to make that choice, the best are where the soul's account,

the best is the things we choose that pay both accounts. Yeah. And don't, I'm just saying, don't, there's great value in denying choices that are really debits to your soul. And for me at that time, that would have been a debit to my soul. That was a step. That would have been a step backwards. That would have been me putting that proverbial roof over. Nope. That's what you got. Do that. Compartmentalize it. Be happy about that. How dare you ever complain about that? Just go do it. Well, I was in a position to tell myself, hey, you got to be

more than just happy to be here and happy to have this job offer, which was awesome. So it is all relative to go back to the top of the question. It is all relative. And so how does someone out there who's saying, what are you talking about, man? I just need a job. I just got fired. I'm trying to pay my damn rent this weekend. And you're talking from your house, from your big house in Austin, in Austin Texas and yeah you got the privilege to

do that and this old COVID going fine for you isn't it your pantry's full you don't have to work today to pay your rent tomorrow no I don't I do not apologize for that but I do understand the relativity in context of that and how that can be hard to go well Well, how, why should I listen to you? What can I learn from you? And you don't, I'm not asking you to, but I'm saying there's relativity with all of these choices and they will come up in small choices in our lives every day. And whether it's a paycheck for a job that you're not, you don't really believe in the values of what it is and where it's lying and cheating and stealing to feed me right now. But actually later on,

I've bought myself stress in the future because I got to look over my shoulder for everybody, wherever I go to see if anyone's there that I lied, cheated and stole from. So geez, that's going to suck. So maybe I don't want to do this act right now that will give me immediate hedonistic gratification,

but I'm going to regret doing this damn thing later because it's going to be trespassing on my freedom. Yeah. Just consider those things. Just consider them. And it may be a paycheck. It may be a relationship choice with your spouse, with your children, with a good friend.

Yeah. Think long money. And I'm talking, I love filling a bank account, but I'm talking about think long money on what fills the yeah the souls account have you heard of the japanese term ikigai no yes this japanese uh you'd love it actually i'm sure as you know when i i read green lights and i i sort of tap into your thoughts and your patterns and how you just got a sort of beautiful way of articulating truths through story. You really do have a wonderful way with words. And Ikigai,

it's this Japanese philosophy of to gain happiness and fulfillment, you want to find something to do that you like, that you're good at, that makes money and the world needs. It's awesome because you read that. I remember I saw that on a Facebook meme, how was seven, eight years ago. And I thought, oh, I like that. I want myself a bit of Ikigai. I like that. Do you think you've got your Ikigai? do you think you've got your Ricky guy?

Before we get back to this week's episode, I just wanted to let you know that I am doing my very first national UK theatre tour. I am planning a really special evening where I share how you can break free from the habits that are holding you back and make meaningful changes in your life that truly last. It is called the Thrive Tour. Be the architect of your health and happiness. So many people tell me that health feels really complicated, but it really doesn't

need to be. In my live event, I'm going to simplify health and together we're going to learn the skill of happiness, the secrets to optimal health, how to break free from the habits that are holding you back in your life. And I'm going to teach you how to make changes that actually last. Sound good? All you have to do is go to drchatterjee.com forward slash tour. And I can't wait to see you there. This episode is also brought to you by the Three Question Journal, the journal that I designed and created in partnership with Intelligent Change. Now, journaling is something that I've been recommending to my patients for years. It can help improve sleep, lead to better decision making

and reduce symptoms of anxiety and depression. It's also been shown to decrease emotional stress, make it easier to turn new behaviours into long-term habits, and improve our relationships. There are, of course, many different ways to journal, and as with most things, it's important that you find the method that works best for you. One method that you may want to consider is the one that I outline in the three question journal. In it, you will find a really simple and structured way of answering the three most impactful questions I believe that we can all ask ourselves every morning and every evening.

Answering these questions will take you less than five minutes, but the practice of answering them regularly will be transformative. Since the journal was published in January, I have received hundreds of messages from people telling me how much it has helped them and how much more in control of their lives they now feel. Now, if you already have a journal or you don't actually want to buy a journal, that is completely fine. I go through in detail all of the questions within the three question journal completely free on episode 413 of this podcast. But if you are keen to check it out, all you have to do is go to drchatterjee.com forward slash journal or click on the link in your podcast app. I'm in and all around it and sometimes right on it.

You know, I've still got a ways to go because as we talked about i would see from hearing that that philosophy icky guy um there is goods that we can sell i can make a movie and put them in a capsule and say those goods and if you want to if you if you like a matthew mcconaughey movie maybe you go to the theater when it opens that weekend or you rent it and you stream it. OK, that's good to whatever extent. I'm in demand. That would be good. I've been in demand enough or been in films enough where that demand pays my rent in a healthy way. And I've enjoyed my work.

And I've been able to have experiences and express myself through my work. Now I've written a book, which is, again, go back to filters, one filter away from me, a more true extension. I wrote the script. I directed it. It's really the most me thing I've ever put out there. And, hey, so far, so good. We got to make a guy going, man. Sales are good.

We're New York Times bestseller. Come on. We come on we got some demand evidently i was able to supply something that people said yes i want some of that the awesome place the place though is the no filter place where the individual and i'll talk about me for a second, where I am the Ika guy, meaning there's no product, there's no extension. There's not something I'm going to wrap up in a box. There's not something I'm going to put between a hardback. There's not something I'm going to put in a capsule and put in a theater. It's live. I'm live. I'm the product. Can I take actions in life daily, filter less actions daily that are in demand. That's the honey hole.

I'm not there yet. Chasing that. But that's the awesome, I would guess, that Ikigai is really probably getting to or an ultimate Ikigai that we can all try and get to. That's when it's,'s oh there's zero filter yeah it's live it's that rattling humker it's happening right now there is no audition there is no permission it is in supply right now the recorder is always on and if that can be in demand that's the ultimate place to to get yeah so that's i'm not there yet but that's it that's a that's a place that i uh look at and go how about that that'd be really pulling

one off wouldn't it yeah no for sure and it's great to see how writing the book and publicizing it is it's just giving you that flavor of what it's like with less filters on when you go out to the world. You know, going back, I know at the start we were chatting about podcasting and I feel very strongly that this podcast for me is helping me get there. It's helping me on my journey because my quest in every conversation is not really, I've always said to people, this is not an information delivery service. It's about connection. It's about the quality of the conversation. If the quality of the conversation, if the connection is right, the gold and the wisdom will fall out on

the side of that. It's not an interview. I don't do interviews. I do conversations. And what I've really strived towards is I started off doing 30, 40 minute conversations or interviews, I should say. And it wasn't feeding me. I wasn't feeling it in my heart. I was like, okay, it's okay. I can do it. And they said, no, no, in the UK, you've got to do 30, 40 minutes. That's the length of a commute. That's what people will listen to. I thought, well, why don't I just do what I want to do instead of worrying what people want. And as I got longer, and as I go to an hour, an hour and a half, as I go to two hours, it gets more and more popular. And so it's kind of like, well, wait a minute. So when I'm being me more, when I stop performing and just be me, warts and all, sharing me for who I am with as minimal filters as I possibly can.

I'm always working to get better at taking the filter off. I'm not there yet. But more and more people listen. And that gives me hope because I think actually maybe marketing has got it all wrong. Maybe the way the world is set up, like you mentioned, of course, Trump gets in because America values money and fame. He has both of those things. But what if we actually value something different as humans? What if actually we do value connection, authenticity, integrity over everything else? Because I actually think, and I think this is one of the reasons podcasts are exploding all over the world right now,

is because you're not getting really the edited, the super edited bite-sized piece on media. You're getting it raw. And you know what I mean? Yes, I do. Yeah, that's a really cool take on it. I hope you're right. I hope you're right. I hope you're right. And how do we know?

How do we measure that? 10 years from now? What is society? What do we value? Who do we put in leadership positions? You know, I don't know, but I'm with you on that. I'm constantly trying to measure the science of values because I'm with you. We have those. We have to rearrange the pecking order of what we have at the top of the list that we reward in the world, not just America, but around the world. That up top is money and fame. Hey, that's great, but that shouldn't be one in two. That is short money as far as the values go. That's not long

money. You know, connections, sure. Relationships, what's our relationship with the world, with people, with ourselves? I've got a shared and competent values campaign that I'm working on, and I want to release it in my hometown of Austin, Texas. It's not rocket science. It's a bunch of things that our mom has taught us that we've just kind of forgotten that are just a little bit about understanding that there's a tithe we need to pay in life there's a there's a tax in human in humanity not the government paid tax but there's a tax in it's called fairness or to take time for that connection There's a tax of accountability and responsibility, but it's a tax that actually pays us back, not some government regulated program. It's a life tax. It's an investment in our future. It's real ROI. It's sincere mailbox money back to our greatest investment, ourselves. How do we, right now, we're in a time of great distrust.

We don't know who to believe in. You don't know who to believe in. You don't trust anybody. You start looking in the mirror and not trusting that person either. Yeah. Oh, shit. The private sector has more power now than ever, all the way down to the individual. Because, shit, leaders don't know what they're talking about.

Can't trust them. What's this politics? Jeez, talk about a broken business. What is politics? I don't know. Can you explain that to me? Well, especially not now you can't. Yeah.

Do they have purpose? Yeah. Well, what is it? Oh, you don't know? Yeah, me neither. Where do we go? What if you have just everybody? Yeah, me neither. Where do we go? When if you have just everybody feeling like, well, it's up to me. That's a recipe for anarchy. But I do believe values are the one thing that we can go, hey, we need a solid stepping ground out of this this time.

It's a great year to have it coming out of this year, this big red light year we've had here. Really solid stepping stone coming out of here. How about we make that stepping stone values where we do individually pledge and agree to go, I'm going to be a little bit better, a little more competent at my value system today. And if you do that as well, and John and Jane Doe and everyone, a few other people do it, that's how we'll build the collective again. But we have to have, we don't have social contracts right now. We don't have wanted, needed, expected, and met expectations of each other. We don't have them of ourselves.

We've got to bind that together. And I think values are the play thing that is not bipartisan, non-denominational. They stand the test of time, no matter what storm we go through, you can trust in them, rely on them. And it sure would be a lot of help if I'm going through the storm and I need some help relying that I can look up at you and you go, yeah, I got your back. I know what you're going through. Got you. Oh, I can, I can, I can, I can trust you with that. You, you're looking after me too. Not asking you to be my brother's keeper, but you got my back. We're on the same, we agree on an unsaid, we have an unsaid handshake on what we sort of expect from each other, decency and

fairness and accountability and responsibility, even sense of humor. Oh, that's, that's the place now when we realize that that is still a very selfish thing to do because the i think one of the big problems with these ideas that people go oh that's very selfless oh that's very that's that's a great idea talk about connection yeah yeah yeah yeah intellectually that's wonderful shit Nobody does a damn thing unless it's personal. We talk about it. We don't really do anything unless it's personal. But I think when we can realize that actually it is deeply personal, it is deeply selfish to act in these ways that we're talking about. They pay us back. There's a place where the selfish choice is the selfless choice, where what's best for the eyes, best for the we, where what we want is what we need and what we

need is what we want. Again, talking honey holes, that's that spot. That's what the coolest ones in history did. That's part of what Jesus was doing. He was cool. You know what I mean? They were making choices that were selfless and selfish at the same time. And those are not a contradiction. Yeah. But that's not silver and gold. That's the gold. That is it, isn't it? That is the...

That's solar power there. That's the ultimate green light. I mean, you talked about the science of values. And if we just talk about the science of doing things for others, doing an act of kindness for someone else, we know, yeah, it's good for that guy. But it's actually even better for yourself, right? So it's there in the science as well. We just don't live in alignment with these values that actually I think is our fundamental human nature.

But here's the thing, Matthew. Do not trust that our boomerang will come back. Yeah. Well, I think we're both optimists. That's the sense I'm getting. I think it'll come back. It will come back.

But I mean, I think us as human nature, we, we, we, we, we, we, you want me to throw it? You tell me it'll come back? No, if I throw it, it's out of my hand. I've lost it. Oh my God, who am I? I'm going to get crushed. Oh no. Oh no. Oh, here it came back. You were right. That's what we need to trust for because it will come back.

To really understand our values, I think we need solitude. We need time where we switch off the noise, right? So you started looking internally. Well, I don't know if you started with this, but you started journaling. Would 14-year-old Matthew today, in 2020, if you were 14 today and you were struggling and you wanted to ask questions, do you think you would have started journaling or would it have been easier to jump on Instagram and consume more info from other people? Do you know what I mean? I guess I'm, is it too noisy out there today for us to actually hear what's going on inside us? Boy, it sure can be. I mean, look, I, like everyone else, I'm trying to navigate through all the noise because I like to be up to date. I like to check out things. by watching some B-rate actor and their innuendo and what edit they have behind their head selling me soft pornography as the daily news. I do like a written word. That's one filter. I like a written word. Then I don't need the audio or the video. I just want to read the word and

paint my own picture and I'll be less emotional and more rational about it. You know, watch the same, watch the same news, the same piece of news being told on two different stations. They can spin it to make it look two different ways. And whichever one you're watching, you're like, I agree with that. Wow. That's, that must be it. I agree with that. And you change the channel to somebody with a different political view. And it's the same subject like, wow, they're right. And you're like, OK, OK, wait a minute. Both of these can't be true or can they? So, you know, and in an incoming we are in this world where our children, especially not even our children, us, never have we talk about supply and demand we create something we take a picture of ourselves we write something down and we go

out into the world and we wait i'm so excited about it i'm optimistic i'm optimistic i'm an optimist this is going to be good let me see i'm thumbs up or thumbs down i get this is going to be a great day because i really like this picture. It was cool. And all of a sudden, these down thumbs come in. You nasty comments come in. And we wilt. Our self-confidence is gone. Our sense of significance is even gone. Our self-confidence is gone. Our sense of significance is even gone. The day now sucks.

All based on what we've sent out into the ether to wait and see what the world thought about it. And it doesn't even matter if you go through those you go you know to your daughter to come honey this is not this person's not even real this they didn't even look at the picture it's not even personal they're a professional naysayer about everything and that's what they kind of you know get off to it doesn't matter it's all the imprint's already there on us um and our children especially so where do we navigate through all the noise? Man, I'm constantly looking. You know, you said earlier, more people are going to podcasts, longer form, hear long conversation, understand that things are more of a paradox than a contradiction, understand that things have context, that, you know, there's many different

truths to a situation. Here, the other side, we don't even, I was writing this down last night talking about American, about politics in this election year. I write in the book that phrase, you must have confrontation to have unity. And I believe that. But I would go so far as to argue right now in America, we don't even have true confrontation because I would, and I'm curious your thoughts on this. I would finish here to say that to have true confrontation, if you and I are confronting each other, I have to validate that you exist and your opinion exists and that it has some merit. Maybe you're on your merit and it opposes mine. But I have to validate a legitimacy of that. But I have to validate a legitimacy of that. You even have an opposing opinion. Yeah, we are in a time where if you don't agree with me.

I don't even legitimize you, your persona non grata. You do not exist if you don't think like I do. That's not confrontation. If you don't if you don't If you don't recognize that you have an opponent, if you don't even recognize the validity of having an opponent or their position having any stance whatsoever, that's not true confrontation. So we cannot come together through that. How do we get through that conversation to help? I believe that if you meet somebody, look them in the eye and talk to them, it's a whole lot harder. It's much harder to harm that person or illegitimize that person. But that's it, isn't it? That's it. That's it. When we get back to our humanness and we meet

someone or you look them in the eye, you have no choice really but to validate them because you can't really communicate in any other way, but you can only invalidate that when it's a faceless communication, when it's just a name on a screen and it's like, it's a profile, it's an avatar, it's not real, right? Let me throw this at you. I was talking with this the other day. That invalidation is usually and mostly when we see

that side of ourselves that we don't like. I'm not looking. that side of ourselves that we don't like in others. I'm not looking. You know. Stop. You don't exist. Why? Because I'm afraid to look at it.

Because I know that part of me. I regret that part of me. You just took me down a horror lane. You just gave me a nightmare. I've been that person before. That's often the case, I think. I think it's, you said earlier on about life being a mirror, right? And that's it. It's, I tell you, what I feel I try and do every day at the moment is I look for friction. I look for when does something get a rise in me? When is something bothering me? When is something,

ah, you know, I don't believe them. Because, and then what I do, and it's taken me a long time to get to this point, this didn't come naturally to me, I've worked at it. Then I'm like, okay, well, there's a mirror there. What's going on in you? Why has that triggered you? Because if you were totally cool with this and calm, you wouldn't a rise and what's so empowering about that is then i'm in control of my life i'm in control of my thoughts it doesn't matter what someone else does i'm always looking at why has that bothered me so i'm in full agreement man i think definitely if we start that's personal growth i think personal growth is right there is when you look at every bit of friction in your life as an opportunity to learn about yourself.

Yeah, and and deal with it, face it, change it, or forgive it. Yeah. Because that's the other part about art of living. I mean, when I know when I go off in solitude, I do not enjoy the company for the first, usually about 12 days. But I've learned to do my best not to go to the bottle or look for attention on my phone. Or so I'll put myself in a place where there is no internet or there is no, those things that could take my my attention elsewhere to entertain me so i'm stuck with me and i'm going like jeez oh man i can't stand you right now

yeah and it gets bloody but then about day 12 i'll have a moment where i'm like okay okay okay you're the one person you're stuck with i can't get rid of you no matter how hard i try so let's work this out we're gonna forgive and forget on that one yeah okay well you're human and you've been way too arrogant to feel guilt so guilty about that anyway who the hell do you think you are judging you're great good job okay let's just say thanks buddy and how about these other ones over here we changing these as the? Does the buck stop here? Are we not going to be repeat offenders on this bullshit anymore? Because I'm tired of it.

Well, I'm tired of it too. Great. All right, we change those. Now we're cool. Now we walk out of there, shake hands, and then all of a sudden I'm present. Then all of a sudden I'm hearing the song of life, seeing things clearly. And because of going through that resistance, though, that you talk about, of going through that hardship of going, you know, look myself in

the eye here, man. Because if we don't do that, it's going to come out anyway down the line in some awkward and ugly way. We will, you know, you don't want it to come out at the dinner party at 11 o'clock that Saturday night when you're really around all your great friends and there are some people, you know, that you really want to be around. You don't want it to come clumsily out then. Go work it out on our own first. Because I've clumsily, you know, I've had those come out before. I've learned that lesson. Oh, I don't want that that lesson. I don't like that. But that's the right kind of, I think the true kind of resistance that I think we should seek. And it takes daily maintenance. It's a daily maintenance thing.

For me, I go to church. Every day? No, Sundays. And I've been reminded the last five years. I'm like, wow, what a wonderful design of the week. Because come about Saturday, I'm ready. I need to go to church again. And then I come roaring out of church Sunday.

And I'm like, yes, I'm taking this into the week. I'm going to apply this. I'm going to work on this. And slowly through the week, it gets kind of plucked off me and start shedding that skin a little bit. And by about Saturday, I'm ready for church again. I need another dose, you know, to go in and go, OK, you're number two. What do we need to work on here? You know, and because we can't all just pack up and throw a backpack on and head off into who knows where on a fuga mundi and walk about into nowhere for a month that's a luxury to be able to do that i can't do that anymore um but it is a daily maintenance what do you do each day what is there something you do each day

to check in with yourself i'll go i mean i try to practice at the end of the day going through an inventory of what was my day starting with waking up to breakfast kids to work trying to go through that and that can be hard to remember and that's another reason that i have to try to do is because i go when it's hard to remember it means you're not doing it enough for me and then after i go through that i then uh i quite enjoy making a list of what I'm, what my goals are for the next day. Yeah. And they may be tasks. They may be simple things like, you know, make sure and, you know,

give Camilla a kiss each time you pass her through the day when you're walking through the kitchen or something, maybe a little fun thing like that, you know? or something. Maybe a little fun thing like that, you know. And so understanding having a look at my immediate past

and having an idea of what tomorrow my expectations are. Then I'm able to sleep better. And then, you know, exercise is helpful a good sweat can can handle a lot of things a good sweat can take all that stress that seems stacked up vertically on our shoulders

and bring them down to where they laterally laterally lay in front of us and we go oh i don't have that weight on my shoulders anymore everything's just kind of out in front of me let me just do one let me hop from from lily pad to lily pad and just knock these things out and it's much easier and i found that do them better um um and then it's you know it's about i've said this before about stress people go oh no stress no stress no stress i'm like what do you mean no stress i mean stress means you give a damn you know i mean you gotta have a little stress you know um stress some guilt some fear have been very valuable for me yeah yeah so insightful to hear um i'm thinking as as i come up to the end of this sort of time i've not even

even touched the surface of the things i was hoping to talk to you about but then that's what authentic conversation is right we start off talking about podcasts and we end up where we end up when the time's up because that's kind of real life right just to finish things off this podcast is called feel better live more when we feel in ourselves, we get more out of life. And the phrase which I love in your book is the art of living, the art of living. I keep pondering it because I've always said medicine is an art. It's more art than science. And I love that term, the art of living.

So as a way of closing off, for people listening to this, for people watching this, do you have some of your, um, what, if you could share some of your wisdom on how people can get better at the art of living? Um, you know, I mentioned it earlier and I think it's worth mentioning again. I think we can better understand and shake hands with the fact that there is a responsibility to freedom and there is freedom in responsibility. The choices we do make today, let's be kind to our future selves. Have just have jump forward, try to lengthen your view a little bit. Write the headline first. Right now,

think about what your eulogy is going to be. Some people go, Oh no, I don't want to go there. That's scary. No, it's not scary. We're all going to die. Jeez. Come on. Let's just let me let's look that in the eye. That's happening. No one's racing to get there, but I mean, it's going to happen. So think about that, because that's your that story is going to introduce every single one of us forever. When we're gone. The beautiful thing about living. The beautiful thing about living is we're the author of that story. And if we are writing the resume on the way to our eulogy, we got the pen.

We got the paper. The hands of time and history is recording us right now, whether the light's on or not. That sounds like rock and roll to me. That sounds like rattling home. So, you know, rock and roll with that in whatever way, with your own self, in whatever way you can. Tee yourself up for more green lights in your future. Tee yourself up. Be kind to your future self.

Be cool to your future self. Be kind and cool to your loved ones. And realize that also the most selfish acts can be the most selfless. And the most selfless acts can be the most selfish. Yeah. Matthew, it's been an honor. It's been just wonderful to just speak and speak freely and just let it go where it wants to go. There's fireworks going on outside here. It's dark.

It's cold in the UK. I imagine you're in the morning. We're in different parts of the world. There's different temperature, different vibe going on. But certainly I feel that we connected over that conversation. The book is amazing. I really hope everyone goes and picks up a copy. And thanks so much, man.

Quite enjoyed it. And once again, and even though this is our first time, it doesn't feel like it is. And the hardest part this time was that we only had an hour and a half. Next time, we'll have more. Absolutely. Appreciate it. Take care, man. Thank you so much.

Yes, sir. So what did you think of that? Matthew is full of some pretty amazing life wisdom. I think there is so much to reflect on there. As always, do try and think about one thing you can take away from today's episode and apply into your own life. And of course, do let Matthew and I know what you thought of today's show on social media. You can visit the

show notes page on my website to see links to Matthew's book and other fascinating articles about his work. Now, is this a conversation you think someone in your life would benefit from hearing? If so, why not take a moment right now to choose who that person is. It could be a few people and send them a link to this episode with a personal note. This is such an impactful thing to do. It serves as an act of kindness that has benefits not just for the other person, but for you as well. benefits not just for the other person, but for you as well. Don't forget this episode, like all of them, is also available in high definition on YouTube if your friends and family prefer videos as opposed to audio podcasts. Now, if the section on values and purpose from this conversation

resonated with you, you may want to check out my second book, The Stress Solution, where I dive into this topic and leave you with some really practical tips to help you get started. I know many people have found it really helpful to start aligning their life with their values and purpose. The Stress Solution is available all over the world to order in paperback, ebook, and as an audio book, which I am narrating. My upcoming book, Feel Great, Lose Weight, is also available to pre-order right now. Although the title is focused on sustainable weight loss, the truth is that this book will help any one of us understand ourselves and our behaviors so that we can make better choices to improve our health and the quality of our life. A big thank you to my wife, Vedanta Chatterjee, for producing this week's

podcast and to Richard Hughes for audio engineering. Have a wonderful week. Make sure you have pressed subscribe and I'll be back in one week's time with my latest conversation. Remember, you are the architects of your own health. Making lifestyle changes always worth it. Because when you feel better, you live more.