Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee - The Secret To A Happy and Contented Life with Eliud Kipchoge (The World's Fastest Man) #304

Episode Date: October 18, 2022

This week’s guest is someone who I have been trying to set up a face-to-face conversation with for around 2 years. Eliud Kipchoge is a Kenyan athlete who is widely regarded as the greatest marathon runner of all time - he has won two successive Olympic marathons and 10 major titles. And of course, he’s the only athlete to have ever run a marathon in under two hours, which he did back in 2019 in Vienna as part of the 1:59 challenge. Although this was not recognised as an official world record because it was not in an open competition, it was an incredible achievement for humanity. This conversation took place in London on the weekend of the 2022 London Marathon, exactly seven days after he had once again broken the official marathon world record in Berlin. But the conversation we had for this podcast is about so much more than running. Whether you are a runner or not, I think you are going to find Eliud’s insights highly relevant and applicable in your own life. One of the main reasons I wanted to talk to Eliud was not because of his running ability but because I have always been fascinated by the energy that he radiates. He has a calmness, a humility and a complete lack of ego, which I and millions around the world, find ourselves drawn to. We cover many different topics in this conversation. We talk about reflection and why, in this tech heavy world, Eliud still keeps a handwritten training journal. We talk about success and why he doesn’t believe in it - which, I think, is remarkable for a man who has achieved so much of it. We also discuss why Eliud always does his runs as part of a community, why he smiles in the latter parts of a marathon, how he manages to stay injury free and what he thinks about retirement. But for me, one of the most insightful parts of this conversation is hearing Eliud talk about self-discipline and why he feels that this is one of the most important skills to develop. Eliud is possibly best known for the phrase ‘No human is limited’ and hearing him explain what this means to him, really brings to life the idea that its self-discipline that will help you reach your own potential. This really was a special conversation with an incredible man - I hope you enjoy listening. Support the podcast and enjoy Ad-Free episodes. Try FREE for 7 days on Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/feelbetterlivemore. For other podcast platforms go to https://fblm.supercast.com. Show notes https://drchatterjee.com/304 DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other qualified healthcare provider regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

I'm not a believer of success. I believe in pure and good preparation, in pure and clean planning. You should live by it, sleep by it, run by it, relax by it, walk by it. You need to have the right systems. You cannot sit and wait for success. You need to do it. Hey guys, how you doing? Hope you're having a good week so far. My name is Dr. Rangan Chatterjee and this is my podcast, Feel Better, Live More. Today's guest is someone who I've been trying to set up a face-to-face conversation with for around two years. And a couple of weekends ago, it finally happened. years. And a couple of weekends ago, it finally happened. Eliud Kipchoge is a Kenyan athlete who's widely regarded as the greatest marathon runner of all time. He's won two successive

Olympic marathons, 10 major titles, and of course, he's the only man to have ever run a marathon in under two hours, which he did back in 2019 in Vienna as part of the 159 Challenge. This was an incredible achievement for humanity, but was not recognized as an official world record because it was not an open competition and he used a team of rotating pacemakers. Now, our conversation took place in London on the weekend of the 2022 London Marathon, took place in London on the weekend of the 2022 London Marathon, exactly seven days after he had once again broken the official marathon world record in Berlin. Now I want to be really clear at the start of this episode, this is a conversation for everyone. Whether you are a runner or not, I think you're going to find Elliot's insights highly relevant and applicable

in your own life. And one of the main reasons I wanted to talk to Elliot was not actually because of his running ability, it's because I've always been fascinated by the energy that this man radiates. He has a calmness, a humility, a modesty, and a complete lack of ego which I and millions of others around the world find ourselves drawn to. In our conversation, we cover many different topics. We talk about reflection and why in this tech-heavy world he still keeps a handwritten training journal. We talk about success and why he doesn't actually believe in success, which I think is remarkable for a man who has achieved so much of it. We discuss why he always does his runs as part of a community, why he smiles in the latter parts of a marathon,

how he manages to stay injury-free, and what he really thinks about retirement. But for me, one of the most insightful parts of this conversation is hearing Elliot talk about self-discipline and why he feels that this is one of the most important skills that we can develop. Elliot is probably best known for the phrase, no human is limited. And hearing him explain what this means to him really brings to life the idea that it's self-discipline that will help you reach your own potential. This really was a special conversation with an incredible man. I hope you enjoy listening. And now, my conversation with the one and only Elliot Kipchoge.

As we're having this conversation, it's pretty much exactly seven days, almost to the minute where you were running in Berlin and when you broke the marathon world record again. How's the last week been for you? Last week actually was, Sunday was great day. I broke a world record. But from Sunday after now it's been a little bit busy. I'm walking up and down doing some sponsor stuff and making sure actually everybody is happy before I fly back to Kenya. Yeah, looking forward to going home, I'm sure. Absolutely, yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, you've done many interviews since you broke the world record. We've watched many of them on television or on the internet. What's it like for you, though, when you're not in public? So last Sunday, for example, what's it like for you when you're in your hotel room at night and you go to sleep? What is it like in those private moments for you? When I'm actually in the hotel room alone,

I think it's a crucial time for me to audit myself, internalize what has happened in the day, and actually try to go back to what has been happening for the last four months. And actually appreciate what we have been doing actually for four months, which has ripped good fruits on that day. So it's internalizing and accepting and just making my mind really calm that it has happened. And tomorrow is another day. Yeah.

Many people struggle to keep their minds calm. Big things may happen in their life, at work, or with their family, or pressure. And they really struggle to calm their minds. You seem to be someone who has a very zen approach to life, a very calm approach. How do you manage to calm your mind when you've achieved something so huge?

Oh, I am a believer of some philosophies. I'll give an example. I am a believer of a philosophy whereby if you are going up the tree, you are stepping on the branches of a tree. And immediately when you actually,

you grab a branch, you test the branch, if it's strong enough to hold your weight, and if it's strong enough to hold your weight, then you go up. Immediately you step on the branch. Then you aim for the next branch. Then you have already actually got this branch.

You forget the branch. You wait for the next one. Get the crap the next one. Test the equilibrium. If it has enough, the branch itself has enough muscles to hold you awake. And then you go up. What I'm trying to say is this.

Berlin Marathon was a branch. I worked for that branch for four to five months. And last week on Sunday, on 25th, I got the branch. After getting the branch actually, what else? I've got the branch. I need to aim for the next one. So just forget it, aim for the next one. That's how I believed in that philosophy.

And the philosophy actually has helped me to know that in life, every day is a challenge. Yeah. Every day is a challenge. You know, you are in a loop actually with somebody on 26th at 10 in the morning. And I told that person that, you know, you see now the organizers, the organizer of the Berlin is thinking of next year. Yeah. So Berlin Marathon 2022 is already out.

Yeah. It's really inspiring. Is that an approach you've always had to life, even as a child? Or is it something you've learned through your career? It's something I learned through my career. I have grown enough in the career, close to 20 years in running.

And I know a lot. I know what can actually knock you out and what can actually uplift you, what can make you actually to be a real person. Yeah. When you're about to embark on something like last Sunday, the Berlin Marathon, do you know beforehand that I'm going to try and break a world record today? Is that already in your mind? Or I guess there must be things you trained for four or five months, but you can't control the weather, for example. Many of us who run at weekends, let's say, some days we're not feeling it.

You know, our legs don't feel as though they've got the energy or we don't have the mindset. So I'm really interested for you, when you have done so much training to build up for one race where the world is watching, do you have a strategy in your head that today I'm going for the world record? I will start by saying that I don't actually, I'm not a believer of success. For the first thing, I don't believe in success, but I believe in good preparation and planning

which can bring success. That means within actually the five months if I don't work hard I will not be successful. But if I got well planned, well prepared, then I'm sure of success. What I'm trying to say is this. For four months I am really training. I think the targets for over 80% is that I feel I'm really comfortable in my body, my legs are good. Then, actually one day to go, then I start to audit what I've been doing. If what I've been doing actually went well, as I expected, then the next, I'm ready for the next day. Anything might happen if the rain comes in, if it's too hot, or if the weather is okay, then I will handle it.

But I will accept the results, you know. They say actually, if you don't accept the results, then if you want to enjoy the sport, you need to accept it out. Be it any outcome, I will not regret. Acceptance seems to be a really key part of your approach to life. You mentioned, of course, already that the

Bill of Marathons is gone. That's the branch. You've got the branch now. You accept it and move on. Irrespective of what had happened, you also mentioned that you don't believe in success. That's really interesting to me. Does that mean, is it you don't believe in success? Or certainly when I hear you say that and describe it,

is it that the success is the four months of training? That's the success. Let me explain that when I say I don't believe in success, success is there. But you cannot sit and wait for success. Yeah. Success is waiting for you to actually say, hey, just grab me.

But rule number one, you should be prepared. Rule number two, you should be well-planned. Rule number three, you should be actually capable of grabbing the success. That's what success is saying. Success is there, I don't deny. But I believe in preparation, in pure and good preparation, in pure

and clean planning can lead to success. I don't think that you can actually believe that I will be successful in a marathon. And you don't follow actually the program to the letter.

The moment you skip one, the opportunity will actually count on the very day. It's so fascinating. What I'm hearing from you is that, yes, you happen to be a marathon runner, but you're saying that actually this approach kind of applies to all of us. Yes, you know, success is, you can define success in different definitions, 10 or 20 or anything you have.

But at the core of everything, you know, I'll give you an example that you are in class and you have your last year actually exam in December and you have three months to study. If you don't study hard, if you don't actually go into a group discussion to share what you know and somebody else can give you what he or she knows, I don't think you will actually get the first class honors. You know, success, you can be successful in running, but you can run too thin. That success is according to you. You can be successful in life and you run too fast. You can be successful in life and you run 2.5.

You can be successful in life and run 2.1. That's the difference of success. You can be successful in education and you have a pass. You can call yourself successful, you have credit. You can call yourself successful and you have distinction. So, what is success really? I think success, what I am trying to say is the mastery of what you are doing.

If you have mastered what you are doing, then that's success. But you need to do it. You need to have the right systems for success to come in. The real right systems. success to come in the real right systems the moment you lack systems the moment you are you like the positive systems within here yeah you you will really look for it but you'll not get it so it's good that in life you need to weigh yourself and

and declare that hey i belong here if you're a sportsman you you you really need to actually ja kertoa, että minä olen täällä. Jos olet koulutuslapsi, sinun on oikein tarvitse itse asiassa sanoa, että minun on tehtävä. Se ei tarkoita, että ihmiset voivat nähdä, että olet onnistunut tai et. Ihmiset voivat todella edeskään kysyä, että on hyvä oikein kertoa itselle,

että minun on tehtävä. Mutta minun on tehtävä arvostaa, minun on oikein tehtävä oikein oikeassa aikaan ja oikeassa paikassa. tell yourself I need to be successful. But I need to work up. I need to be actually doing what's right at the right time, at the right place. We all need our own individual definition of success, don't we? Absolutely. If you want to be successful, define in your own words.

Yeah. In your own words, the way you understand. Your own language. Define success in your own language. Because someone who's never run before, if they were to complete a 5K, if they were to build up to running five kilometers, that could be success for them.

Absolutely, yes. They are building up and they have actually completed 5K. Yeah. In the next three months, they are completing 10k. That's success. But you cannot wake up today and actually complete that 20 kilometers.

Last Sunday I was glued to the race. And actually I want to share with you there are three moments in my life where I have witnessed a great sporting occasion with my two children. And two of them actually involved you. One of them was when Tiger Woods won the Masters in 2015.

But the other two were last weekend when you broke the world record and also when you went under two hours in 159. I was sitting with my two children around the computer watching. It was really special moments. Now, at halfway, when we saw the splits of, of course, you all know,

59-something at halfway, I was feeling nervous, which is ridiculous because I'm not running, you're running and you look really relaxed. But I'm thinking, oh man, is he going to break two hours today? Has he gone off too fast? How aware of the time are you in that moment? What was going through your head? You know, what happened is that I was feeling well. SpaceMakers were actually on the right ship. And we crossed the halfway.

We crossed the 20K and realized, hey, then it's 56 so fast. Then I tried to calculate to give another two minutes and 50 seconds. I saw it will be actually under 60. But all in all, that was a big motivation for me that if I am closing actually under 60 with half, then I will not miss a world record. So I was keeping myself moral that please let me push. If I run two hours flat, well and good. If I missed and ran a wall drop that's what I need

so it was a blast on my side it was a blast on my mind do you feel any pressure because of who you are because of the amount of people who look up to you and watch you you know are you aware of that pressure from the outside

or is it just another race for you? It was a huge pressure. It's a pressure from all sides. You know, on Friday, actually, I just jumped in to press conference for home and all the channels were asking me, are you going for world records? And I told them, no, who told you I'm going for world record?

I'm coming here to run a good race and if that race can be translated to be a course record or if you can call it a world record, I will appreciate it. That's what I told them. But there was a lot of pressure from the channels. Everybody was expecting that you can run. And I told them, no, I'm coming for a good race. Yeah.

It's that approach, isn't it, that you keep talking about. It's process over outcome. It's the journey over the destination. That's what I'm hearing as I hear you speak. Yes, yes. You know, you cannot actually say, you know, human being is not machine. You cannot set yourself for a certain time and run that time. No.

You never know what will happen. On the way, marathon is life and all challenges are on the way. But I always put my mind that I need to run well. I need to run certain time. Try to push myself according to what I've been doing in training, thinking. Before you do something, you need to internalize first. Yeah. You need to internalize.

You need to really put in your heart and in your mind. You need even to think and imagine closing a finishing line with a world record. Yeah. Then you will get it. You cannot wake up and just rush. The moment you get it, then you say thank you and you move on. Last Sunday, after the race, I went to the kitchen with my kids. We were having a late breakfast because we missed breakfast to watch you break the world record.

And my 12-year-old son had a question for me, which, if you don't mind, I was going to put to you. Yes. He said, Daddy, Elliot was celebrating just before he got through the line. If he hadn't celebrated, do you think he would have gone one or two seconds even quicker than what he did do? So this is a child's question. And I watched the video again on YouTube this morning and it certainly appeared that obviously you knew you were you'd broken the world records there was a smile there was some sort of hand celebrations and it did appear to me that your pace slightly slowed at the end so the question from my son is could you have gone one or two seconds faster had you not celebrated? It's a very good question

and I want to answer that I already saw that I'm inside the world record so I didn't mind actually celebrating provided I needed something

called a world record. So I was sure of a world record and decided to celebrate and got it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, huge, huge congratulations. Thank you. You know, I know you want to inspire people to run.

I've heard you say that in many interviews and many conversations. And I've been thinking about inspiration recently. What is it about people like you that inspires so many of us around the world because you know I'm a doctor okay so I may dream about being an elite marathon runner

but I'm not an elite marathon runner but I remember after that race I felt inspired I went into the garden and I did some sprints. I got my skipping rope out and did some skipping. There was something about watching you, a fellow member of the human race, achieve something so special that really inspired me within my life to do a bit more. Why do you think that is? Inspiration actually is that I always say that life is about movement.

And I want to inspire people to move. All the professions actually, be it you are an engineer, a doctor, be it you are a teacher, be it you are a manager, all sorts of professions in this world, for them to survive, for them to live longer, is the spirit of movement.

What I'm trying to say is this. If you move, that's how to earn a good life. If you move, that's how to earn a good life. If you move, that's how to live longer. But the only movement which is available is the less expensive movement, which is running. if you run, then, you know,

I'm trying to, to, to tell people that, you can't run, actually, to be a record holder, and, but, I need you to run,

to actually, to be fit, and to live longer, yeah, that's my inspiration, that's why I always say, I want to push, uh,

uh, running, to be a family lifestyle, the moment all the families are going to grab running and actually put in their family and call it

family lifestyle, that will be great. Whereby in the morning you can see the kids and the parents just putting on shoes and just walk around, just move.

It's about movement, just move. The world about movement. Just move. The world will be fruitful again. Are you familiar with Park Run? It's a big global movement. It started in the UK and in many, many towns and villages around the UK and now in the world.

There's a 5K every Saturday morning. And people of all abilities come, children, adults, they all get a time. But you know, the fastest will be running in 15, 16 minutes. The slowest will maybe be an hour. But it's a big community spirit and people run together. And you know, what you just said about running as a family, I'm pretty sure if Park Run did not exist, I'm not sure my kids would be runners. Like my son loves running. But I think he loves running because of Park Run. So the way we start every weekend is me and my son,

we go down to the local 5K, rain or shine, windy, cold, hot, doesn't matter we turn up and we do a 5k and so for me it's how we spend our family weekends together which i think speaks to what you're talking about yes that's exactly what uh what i'm i'm saying and if all of us are if the spirit what you are doing in UK can go to every country in this world, then actually we'll be fine. The two years, actually, the world will change. Why did you start running? I started running, my neighbor was running, I wanted to run like him, which is my coach now.

my neighbor was running I wanted to run like him which is my coach now and the aim was of running actually and training her it was just to feel

how life will be up the skies by actually getting a ticket and fly but at long last I traveled to Europe ran

I realized that so sport can give me life sport actually can can keep food to my table, to my siblings and my parents and the rest. So I started to focus in a professional way. And did you know from the start that, hey, I'm pretty quick here, I can beat people around me or did that come later? No, that one came later. Did it? No, not really. I was just training and wanted to just for fun go to compete and actually

compete with other people, get a position and come back home. As I talk to you, Elliot, I think back to a conversation I had a few years ago on this show with Killian Jaune, regarded by many as the greatest mountain runner of all time. You, of course, are regarded as the greatest marathon runner of all time. And what really strikes me from chatting to both of you is there's a real modesty, a real humility. And I'm really interested, why do you think that might be? And do you think there's something unique to running that kind of gives off that flavor

in the people at the top of the sport? I think it's about understanding life and understanding what you are doing. Always, when you are at the top of something and you have an ego, that's the sign of failure. At the end of it, actually, when you are at home and you realize that your ego is up, then it doesn't feel like you are human.

So it's the way you think that you treat the world as full of a human family and an ego will go away. And I trust that the moment you chase away ego, that's the best place to really get into course. The best place to think. The best place actually to think with other people and respect other people. The best place actually to get your trainings in a good way.

Yeah. Do you think there's something about running or running long distances that it kind of burns the ego out of you? I trust the long runs when you are running for long, training for long, helps you to actually know how to handle suffering. And if you know how to handle suffering and pain, that's what long runs are. It's helping me or helping any other person. But all you know how to handle suffering and pain, that's what long-run is helping me or helping any other person. But all you know, I think it's the only way to calm your mind.

That, hey, what do you want again? And if something happens, then it does happen and we need to move on. You know, I don't know, I can't explain because I don't understand more as far as Iko is concerned. But I believe actually at the end of the day, you know, before you go to bed, I think everybody actually is reflecting what has happened for the whole day. That you actually affect the world in a positive way or in a negative way for the whole day. That you actually, what did you do? Did you do anything negative or positive?

That's what people actually should be asking themselves at the end of the day before you go to bed. And if you happen to actually have those thoughts, then actually you will realize that there is no need of actually having an ego yeah yeah this life is actually good when you are on the ground you come across incredibly calm and zen in your manner and you mentioned there that running and particularly long runs is a good way to calm the mind. So I guess for me, I'm thinking, were you always calm and zen and relaxed?

Or do you think it's the fact that you run so much that has made you calm and relaxed? I think it has been my personality, but running has helped me to be more calm. Yeah. You mentioned reflection and how important it is maybe every evening to think, you know, what have you done in the day? Have you contributed to other people? You know, have you behaved in a way that, in a manner that you wanted to behave in. And I know that you are a very keen journaler.

You have a journal. Yes. And in one interview, you've mentioned that your pen and your journal are two of the most important things that you possess. I wonder if you could speak to journaling. Why is it so important to you, and why do you still do it by hand in an age where we have computers and technology? I have a lot of channels. I have a channel which for training

every day. I have a channel for the shoes that I'm using every day. I have a channel that when I'm reading a book, I just highlight the best points I need to put down on a notebook. I have a notebook whereby it's a word or two in that day that I write all of them down and actually focus on the day-to-day, my daily programs that I need to do to rush up and down when I'm at home. So believing actually on the hand or writing actually is that I believe that they say, write it and you'll remember. So the moment you write it, you'll remember.

So that's why I'm still carrying around the channel. The channel, I have 90 now at home. If you happen to come to Kenya and visit me, I will show you what I was doing in 2003, 2004. Well, I would love to. So that's every year you write down all of your running. Absolutely. Every single run.

Every single run. And what are you documenting? Every single day. And what are you documenting? Just taking a quick break to give a shout out to AG1, one of the sponsors of today's show. Now, if you're looking for something at this time of year to kickstart your health, I'd highly recommend that you consider AG1. AG1 has been in my own life for over five years now. It's a science-driven daily health drink with over 70 essential nutrients

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Like, what are you writing down? Like, what distance? I'm writing the time I cover and the distance. Everything I'm doing is eye spot, massage, everything I'm putting there. So it helps you remember, does it help you also when you're reviewing it kind of see patterns, or when I do this, this happens, or when I do this, I'm running quickly, that sort of thing? The core thing is that, you know, if you are writing everything every day it helps you

not to miss that training because the moment you miss training for two days you will just put when you refer to your channel

you see oh I missed the training last week three times I missed training this week two times with no reason at all so it's good actually that

I really need my book to get filled. That's why I don't miss training. Do you do it when you wake up? Do you do it after the run? Do you do it in the evening? Or does it just depend day to day? When I wake up, I don't handle anything. I just wake up, get my clothes put on.

When I wake up, I don't see, I don't handle my phone. I'm waking up, prepared for a run. After the run, I go back for breakfast. Coming back to relax, then I start now to, my training was 20 kilometers. Then I write actually the time I cover and the kilometers. And I close the channel and start to check the phone if there is some text to refer or emails or anything else. But all in all, I treat myself first for other things.

So you wake up, you get yourself ready for a run, you're not looking at your phone, you do your run. It's only after that important thing is done for you that you then get into what the rest of the world wants you to do. Absolutely. I always tell people that even in the camp, that during breakfast, actually, don't bring my phone. Even we set a law in our camp whereby mobile phones are not allowed in the kitchen or the dining where

we are eating to make people actually eat well and concentrate. Reason number one is that is to avoid is people actually to cut their phones immediately after training. So you need to cut one hour of taking shower, taking breakfast, taking care of yourself before you respond to the whole world. Most of them actually were saying that hey, you know, emergency might be in.

Then I ask them, we're out of our rooms for one hour and 30 minutes. If any emergency happens within one hour and 30 minutes, will you solve it? They say, no. Then there is no need for actually rushing to the phone. Yeah, yeah. And what has happened after has happened.

You can actually bring it back. Yeah, I. And what has happened after has happened. You can actually bring it back. Yeah, I love that. So what kind of time do you normally wake up? And then, you know, I'm interested in that sort of routine you wake up. Is that with an alarm? Is it without an alarm? And then how long does it take you to warm up before you're out for your run, usually? My alarm is actually on at 5.45. That's quarter to six.

Work out, do the necessary change and put on. Then about six, then I'm on the road with the whole team and we start training. Do you always run in groups when you're training? We always run in pick groups. How does that go? Because if you're one of the fastest human beings on the planet, which I think you are, and most of us think you are, how does it work then when you're running in groups because presumably at some point depending on what kind of run you're doing presumably you're the fastest

so help me understand how how are you running groups oh you know training actually is not about competing we are training we are not competing. So, we normally run when I'm even five meters actually at the back. And part of all in all is that my life, I need to be with people and run with the young people

to actually motivate them. When I'm there, actually, everybody is alive. There is life when I'm there. When I miss training in the morning or when I'm doing something else, then everybody will receive 100 calls after one and a half hours. Where were you?

It's about training. It's not about competition. But you can train actually for four months in a good way with everybody. But I think the May, people should learn or actually practice their minds to handle pressure and have heart work and believe in pushing their limits.

The moment they believe in pushing their limits and handle the pressure, they will run very fast. It's about what you think that can carry your day. Yeah. Yes. In the West, certainly here in the UK,

and I think also in America, the relationship a lot of people have with running, or I guess movement in general, is to help them, you know, deal with the stresses of their day. These days in the UK, people will talk about running for their mental well-being. My taxi driver, a chap called Daniel in the northwest of England, he told me a few months ago that he runs 10K every day, seven days a week. And he says if he doesn't run those 10K,

he doesn't feel good. He doesn't feel he's settled. A lot of us also do this by ourselves, right? You know, culture in the West has become quite isolated. People often don't live near their families, near their friends. They're living, maybe they've moved to a different city for work. And they often work by themselves. And then they go running by themselves.

And they struggle to motivate themselves to keep going. But what I'm hearing from you is that you're running groups. And of course, that makes sense. Like if you're not going to show up, you're letting people down. They're going to say, hey, Elliot, where are you? You know, why are you not running today? What's going on? And it makes me, it really fits into what I think,

where I think we're really going wrong in the West. We're becoming more isolated. We're doing more and more things by ourself. And I think that's why that group park run every Saturday is proving so successful for so many people across the UK and around the world is because people are running in groups, which helps motivate you. Have you noticed this? When you go around the world, you're speaking to people, have you noticed that culturally, the relationship to running we may have, let's say, in the UK or in America

is different from the relationship people have with running in, let's say, Kenya? Absolutely, yes. In America and Europe, most people are clearly running by themselves. But my encouragement is that, that's why I always say I want to make running a family event. It's that if you want to enjoy more running, you run, get a group. Get two, three, four, five people actually. Assemble yourselves actually in a point. If it's every every day then that's well done good and just

run, you'll enjoy, you'll just talk as you are going, ideas are coming in and you put on paper there no beat and you know it's good you know sometimes when you are alone you think you are running and you are not running your mind is in another place

you know running is not about not running. Your mind is in another place. You know, running is not about legs. Running is about actually the mind. Your legs might be on the park, but your mind might be actually on the plane. So you need a group gap so that it can actually protect your thoughts from actually exploding, going away and bring back to where you are running.

So group running actually is crucial to keep you on the course, make you enjoy running and you cannot actually get tired. The moment you are alone you start to think a lot and you cannot finish 10 kilometers if you are actually aiming.

Many of us struggle with motivation. Do you ever wake up in the morning and you know you're due to have a run? And do you ever think like many of us, I can't be bothered today. I'm not feeling it today. I want to stay in bed. Help us understand, are you as human as the rest of us,

or do you wake up and, yeah, it's time to run? Actually, there are some days where I don't feel like running. Really? Absolutely, yes. But just lie in the bed and I ask myself, if I don't run, what will happen? And you know, if you turn around in the morning,

you'll lie to yourself that at 10 o'clock I will go for a run. At 10 o'clock you'll say, no, 4 o'clock, I'll go for a run. Then the day actually will be off. So I'll ask myself, what will happen? Then I wake up, get my shoes, get my clothes,

go the road. In 10 minutes time, joking, then my foot will come up again. Yeah. In training and I will come to life again. Yeah, no, I love that. Do you tend to run every day, usually? Yes, I run every day. Every day?

Yeah. Even, like, I don't know, like, I know you're in recovery now because you, obviously, you ran last weekend. Are you still running every day? I know. I will start next week. You'll start next week. And for many of us, when we do a marathon,

the next day can be quite painful in terms of going up and down stairs. We can really, really feel it. Yes. Is it the same for you, or can you walk effortlessly the day after? No, it's the same for me. Same for you?

Going up the stairs, actually, the same for you or can you walk effortlessly the day after no it's the same for me same for you going to stairs actually you know uh where and there has been there has been actually as okay in your muscles and you know all that impact from the road is is hard yeah so you have the marathon hobble like the rest of us. Okay. Hearing what you're saying about groups and running together, I'm drawn back to last Sunday's race again where, I don't know, obviously you had the pacers. There was a fellow competitor who was with you for quite a long time.

I don't know if you were aware of that, if you're thinking, wow, people are still with me. I don't know what goes in your head at that time. I don't know if you were aware of that, if you're thinking, wow, people are still with me. I don't know what goes in your head at that time. I'm very interested. But then there comes a moment where you no longer have your paces, you no longer have competitors to help push you.

What goes on in your mind there? Because then it's down to self-motivation at that point. You don't have... Many of us know that actually we can run faster if there's people around us, if we're trying to beat someone or we're trying to keep up with someone. But in many of the races I've seen you do,

you're out in front by yourself. Is it hard to keep that motivation going for you when it's just you? Let me start with when people are around me. Yeah. Firstly, I always say I will run my own race. If anybody actually wants to run my race, then he's welcome. I will not actually deny you are welcome to run my race, then he's welcome. I will not actually deny, you are welcome to run my race.

So if you want to run your own, that's okay. But I'll run my race. That's why I don't actually turn myself and look back, who is there? Because I am running my own race. If actually the distance is going up and the speed is going up. And the muscle starts to actually soar and nobody's there. Then I'm motivating myself. I'm still pushing.

I'll push by my own. Because I trust in my trainings. I trust in what I've still pushing. I'll push by my own. Because I trust in my trainings. I trust in what I've been doing. So I know what I've been doing will just take me to the finishing line. So I'm not actually scared of maybe losing some minutes because I'm alone. Or here and there, no. Yeah. You say you're pushing.

One of the most striking things to me, Elliot, when I watch you run, is how relaxed you look. There's an elegance. You look majestic. Your posture is fabulous. In fact, I find it very hard to tell the difference between you at mile one and at mile 26.

To me, maybe I've got an untrained eye, but it looks remarkably similar. Whereas if you go to a local race here, towards the end, you will see all kinds of postures and people somehow trying to struggle to get through. So you're saying that you're struggling and you're pushing. Of course, why would you not in order to break a world record? Yet, at the same time, you look super relaxed.

Can you help us understand that? Looking super relaxed is good for me. And on the other hand, I have trained well and trained my body to run in a super relaxed way but in a high pace. So when I am in the rest, I'm just maintaining it. But you know, to maintain that speed is what actually is really hard to maintain.

But it's good to maintain in a good posture without actually struggling so much. Yeah. I've spoken to many people on this show before about nasal breathing, about some of the benefits that we have when we breathe through our nose instead of through our mouth. And I can't tell when I watch you, you look so relaxed.

Certainly for the first half of that marathon last Sunday when I was watching you, I thought, is Elliot just breathing through his nose or is his mouth open? Do you think about this? Is this something you're aware of? Yes, but I breathe through my mouth. You breathe through your mouth? Yes. From the start to the finish?

The more the speed, the more the mouth is. You cannot breathe in your nose. At the speed you're going? No, I can believe that. I can believe that. I can believe that. But thank you for clarifying that. Yeah. And what about your smile?

What I call the Kipchoge smile. We hear that you smile when you're in pain. Is that true? Or, you know, maybe explain to us. You seem, for someone who is running such long distances at such frankly a pace that we can't fathom you know i know you're at the running show yesterday so i'm guessing you saw people trying to run your pace yes and i'm guessing nobody look first of all what is it like for you when you watch amateur runners trying to run at your pace?

I feel tense. You feel tense? Yes. Why? No, you know, even seeing yourself running on TV, you just feel... Do you worry they're going to injure themselves on the treadmill and fall off? Yeah, I saw last year Sambu to fall, but I think he was not injured. Yeah, but actually the smile is to enjoy, you know.

If you feel that pain, please give that pain. If you feel the pain, then feel it. The more you actually move with the pain, that's where success is. Everybody, if you are 10 and you feel the real pain, then everybody is feeling the pain. And few of them who actually know how to handle pain will be successful and will move on to another level. So how do we learn how to handle pain? You should understand that pain is part of success. and we'll move on to another level. So how do we learn how to handle pain? You should understand that pain is part of success. Just to compare pain into a positive thing.

That success is not coming on a silver platter. You need to work for it. The moment you are working for it, that's how you undergo pain. Pain in your body and pain in your mind, thinking. But at the end of it you'll enjoy. Immediately you cross the line, immediately the pain is no longer there. Yeah. So you think pain is a good thing?

Absolutely yes. It's a good thing. Pain is a good thing. It actually guides you to know that you need to work hard. It's guiding you to respect that success that you have earned. Yeah. Yes. If all successful people actually did not undergo pain, then you can see other things in this world. But because pain is guiding them that if I play, I am successful successful but if I don't do the right thing actually I will not have success again.

It's fascinating hearing that Elliot because I keep thinking about what you said earlier that planning is about preparation that's almost where the success lies, not in the actual outcome of the race you know you didn't quite say that but that's certainly what I'm that's almost where the success lies, not in the actual outcome of the race.

You know, you didn't quite say that, but that's certainly what I'm... That's what I meant. Yes, that's what I'm taking from it. I found that a really powerful idea. And you say on the day then, no matter what's happening, the crowds, the weather,

things you can't control, well, you can trust yourself because you know you've done the training. Absolutely. Now, that's really powerful. If we apply that to pain, I'm asking you, how can we, each of us learn to handle pain better?

But I keep thinking about what you said. Well, if you've never practiced being in pain, how would you know ever how to handle it? So it sounds as though you have trust in your body because you know you've done the work, you've experienced pain, you've got through pain, you've overcome adversity.

So you know on the next day or the next day, you've got that experience in your body. I know I can do this. And it sounds like that's a key thing for you, the trust that you have because you've done the hard work. The harder the work you are doing, the more the pain. But that

one doesn't prevent you from actually the big day that let us say I've trained for four months. In a good way, there is pain, but you enjoy the pain. In that very day that you are running a marathon, pain should be there.

On training, it's not the last days. You will experience pain here. But what I'm trying to say is that the moment you actually encounter that pain, please persevere, learn to persevere. Because that's where success is. The moment you don't feel pain, then you are not approaching success. The moment you really feel that, please, I need to just quit, that's where success is. Don't quit.

Still keep on. I always tell people, press on, press on, and press on. The more you press on, you press on, you press on, you will get to where you are going. Yeah. Many people feel nervous

the day before, let's say a marathon or a big work presentation or something big in their lives, they feel a little bit nervous and anxious and they don't sleep very well. So it's pretty well known. Many amateur marathon runners, I did my very first marathon last year at the London Marathon, which didn't go particularly well, but I did finish, I did complete it and I'm planning to do it in April do you ever

find yourself the night before a race lying in bed thinking man I need to sleep, I can't sleep I've got a big race tomorrow has that ever happened or have you trained yourself to sleep well the night before a big race not really I'm like other people I sleep for two hours, wake up, see,

oh it's no longer, another two hours. So it's common, it's a good thing and it's good for shows that you are prepared to do a lot of hard work tomorrow. Yeah. I know you wear an aura ring to track your sleep. Yes. I know you wear an aura ring to track your sleep. Yes. And I'm really interested in technology and how it can help us with our health. I think sometimes we can overuse it potentially.

You obviously are an elite athlete, so knowing how you're running, how you're sleeping, these things are really, really important for you to do your job. Is it demoralizing for you the night before a race? I don't know what happened the night before Berlin, for example. If you have a bad night's sleep and you look at your aura ring in the morning and you see a really bad readiness score, has that ever happened and does that demoralize you?

Or have you learned not to take too much notice? The next day I don't actually click to the app. You won't look? I won't look. Oh, so if you've had a bad night, you won't look? I don't look. Yes. But I know I've been running many marathons

and it's hectic for one day to go to really sleep. Yeah. I'm always fascinated by talking to people like you who are at the top of their game. And like I think of other people at the top of their sports, people who are regarded as the greatest. And, you know, in golf, for example, Tiger Woods is regarded by many people as the greatest

or certainly one of the greatest golfers of all time. Now, I've heard Tiger Woods say in interviews that when he is playing his best, he's so focused on what he's doing with the ball and where the hole is that he doesn't hear or see the crowds. I've heard you say, Elliot, that actually you do hear the crowds, you enjoy hearing what they have to say. So I'm interested, you know, as I share that sort of insight from Tiger, do you ever get like that, where you're not hearing them and you're really focused? Or does it just depend on what stage of a race you're in?

Starting from beginning, I can hear what the crowd are saying on the way. People are singing and I'm not looking at them, but I'm focusing on the road. But I hear that people are cheering on the way and I have no problem. That's good. Cheering is good. Yeah. Yeah. hear it and you use it. But I block my mind from thinking outside and bring the mind to the every mile splits, every kilometer splits, and focus on the project at that time.

Yeah. You're obviously very well known around the world. Many people with profiles like yours will face, you know, maybe 95% positive comments online, but maybe 5% negative comments. When those negative comments come, if they do, how do you deal with them? Oh, negative comments are there in all the sports, you know.

The law of nature cannot allow us to think together. There is optimists and pessimists in this world, and we need to respect all of them because we are all human beings. because we are all human beings. So any negative thought actually we respect and that's life, you know. You know, other things actually is that you don't, you need to just forget, just see it and forget, you know,

you don't put in your mind. But the Lord is there, there is a lot of positive remarks, negative remarks. What can you do? Yeah. You cannot prevent them from talking. But you can prevent them from coming inside your life because they are negative. Some top athletes have struggled when they retired.

You know, Michael Phelps, another great, you know, all-time swimming great. It's been well documented that he has struggled with mental health problems in the past. And I watched the documentary he made about Olympians and how many of them have really struggled. You know, the four years is all about that one race. And then the day after, there's, oh, what am I getting up for? I've got nothing to train for, nothing to practice for. And I'm really interested, you appear to be, to me at least, in the prime of your career. I hope we're seeing you running for many, many years to come. Have you thought about retirement? Have you thought about how you're going to

feel when you no longer do this as your job? Yes. In front of my mind, I know I will retire. But I will retire when the time comes in. I will retire running actively. But I will still go around all the big city marathons running for charity to actually raise funds for my foundation to build libraries and actually conserve the environment. I think I'll be more busy when I retire and I'm looking forward for it. So you don't need the running, the world records to make you feel good about yourself? Not at all. I could have retired in 2019 when I break a two-hour party. So I will retire when my muscles are no longer consuming the trainings,

when my mind is no longer actively consuming the training. So I want to retire in a good way. I don't want to retire because I have made an history. Then why do I retire if I have made history? If I have inspired a billion people by running under two hours. And then the next day a kid, a teenager kid asks, is that person who inspires still running? No, he retires.

Then what's the meaning of running? Yeah. The meaning of running is that you inspire many people, you still run and show them running is life. Making each challenge and actually removing the barriers in the minds of people is a great thing.

But we need to keep on. So you think you'll still be running in your 70s, your 80s, your 80s? Absolutely, yes. You know, seven years ago, I met an old man in Athens, in Greece. I was there for some awards. And the old man actually was 91 years. He was a very good old man, 91 years, still working. And then we were doing, he told me, no, now you are running marathon. And I told him, yes. He

told me that he has been running in his life, all his life, but he will stop running at 100. I trust now he's 98. I've never followed him. I've not got his contacts. But I

think he has two more years to run because he's becoming old because of the knees

and everything. But still running. So if you want to, I ask him, then what's the secret

actually? You have a good, you are clean with a tie, and you don't look like you are 91. He told me, the secret is running. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, I guess if you were to stop running after, let's say, another Olympic gold

or another world record, then I guess in some ways it's not consistent with your philosophy, which is those are just outcomes. There are things that happen as a side effect of you just concentrating on getting up each day, doing the work, having a plan, preparing, executing on your plan. And I guess whether you're a competitive athlete or whether you're just running for fun to raise money,

you still seem to have that real love of running. I mean, do you ever get up, Elliot, and forget the log, forget what my coach has said, I just want to run today because I'm free and I just want to experience what it feels like. Yeah, absolutely. Our coach actually are leaving us free on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. In the morning, we are running as a group in a freeway.

Just run and enjoy running for 20 kilometers. Easy, just the way you feel. Yeah. How have you managed to stay clear of injuries in a way that seems to be quite rare? And the context of me asking this is, in the UK, and I think in America, there are various statistics going around

that 60 to 80% maybe of runners have to stop or give up at some point because of injury. Roger, you appear to be someone who, touch wood, manages to stay relatively clear. Is there anything you can share about that? Before we get back to this week's episode, I just wanted to let you know that I am doing my very first national UK theatre tour. I am planning a really special evening where I share how you can break free from the habits that are holding you back and make meaningful changes in your life that truly last. It is called the Thrive Tour. Be the architect of your health and happiness.

the last. It is called the Thrive Tour. Be the architect of your health and happiness. So many people tell me that health feels really complicated, but it really doesn't need to be. In my live event, I'm going to simplify health. And together, we're going to learn the skill of happiness, the secrets to optimal health, how to break free from the habits that are holding you back in your life. And I'm going to teach you how to make changes that actually last. Sound good? All you have to do is go to drchatterjee.com forward slash tour. I can't wait to see you there. This episode is also brought to you by the Three Question Journal, the journal that I designed and created in partnership with Intelligent Change. Now journaling is something that I've been recommending to my patients for years. It can help improve

sleep, lead to better decision making and reduce symptoms of anxiety and depression. It's also been shown to decrease emotional stress, make it easier to turn new behaviours into long-term habits and improve our relationships. There are, of course, many different ways to journal. And as with most things, it's important that you find the method that works best for you. One method that you may want to consider is the one that I outline in the three-question journal. In it, you will find a really simple and structured way of answering the three most impactful questions I believe that we can all ask ourselves every morning and every evening. Answering these questions will take you less than five minutes, but the practice of

answering them regularly will be transformative. Since the journal was published in January, I have received hundreds of messages from people telling me how much it has helped them and how much more in control of their lives they now feel. Now, if you already have a journal or you don't actually want to buy a journal, that is completely fine. I go through in detail all of the questions within the three-question journal completely free on episode 413 of this podcast. But if you are keen to check it out, all you have to do is go to drchatterjee.com forward slash journal or click on the link in your podcast app. First is that injuries are a part of life in sport.

Injuries are part of a challenge in sport. But what I'm doing is that when I'm resuming training after a marathon, then I take care of my body with a massage and making sure my muscles are good. I will start the first amount of vocal resuming training by going to gymnasium for the whole month, three days a week. Running on steps,

lifting some weights, aerobics for the whole month. That whole month actually is really intensive, mixing with some runs, and it can actually, it makes my muscles actually to, if there is something going on, it can actually keep a sign immediately, and I can handle it. And after that one month, I go to another step of actually

endurance speed and endurance training to build my muscles. So two months actually of my training is building the muscles and actually like chasing the injury. And if you do that, you'll never get an

injury. Or if you get an injury, it will be just a small injury. It will bite away because you can't prevent everything. But you have done a lot which is an 8% chance that you cannot get an injury. Would you say you're good at if an injury is starting to come up or you feel a niggle, are you quite good at saying, hey, look, I'm not going to do that long run today. I just need to look after this. Absolutely. When I get something which is wrong, I trace it immediately.

Yeah. It's good to trace as highly as possible. Yeah. Because I think a lot of people, a lot of my patients that I speak to, their work is so pressured, they're so looking forward to their Saturday run, that even if they're injured, they run through and they often then get injured,

and then they're off for two months, they can't do anything. And I feel like I see this a lot with training plans, Elliot, I don't're off for two months, they can't do anything. And I feel like I see this a lot with training plans, Elliot, I don't know your view on this. Of course, you are an elite athlete whose job revolves around running. Many people with busy jobs, and I'm not saying you don't have a busy job, I mean, let's say a non-elite athlete, let's say a busy parent trying to do their job, look after their children, they're trying to squeeze a run in at the weekends,

or they're trying to train for a marathon, and they see a published training plan online. Okay, three runs a week, this one's 12 miles, this one's 14. My feeling as a doctor is that sometimes we don't trust ourselves enough. We see the plan and we think, even though I'm tired or my knee's hurting, I must stick to that plan because that's the published plan. Whereas I kind of feel we should be using plans as guidance, but we also have to trust ourselves and go, it's not the right thing for me today.

What's kind of your perspective on that? My perspective actually is that you should have a feeling of yourself. Feel for yourself. Is it am I good enough to do this established

thing? You should have that personal belief that listen to your body. If you listen to your body, actually that's really crucial. So it's good to listen to your body. Do what is necessary. It can save you energy, can save you actually not being injured and many things. It's really good to listen to your body. Self-discipline is something that I've heard you speak about before.

You said it's very, very important. When you say self-discipline, what exactly do you mean by that? That's a crucial thing. And that's value number one. You know, in our camp, I set up a pretty huge billboard. When you hand out a gate, the second gate, you get a huge billboard with 60 values.

60? Six zero. Six zero values, wow. Yes. I encourage everybody to get 15 values. 15. After getting 15, they should narrow them to three.

Those three values, we should live by it, sleep by it, walk by those values, run by those values, relax by those values, go around with your friends, guided by those values. Then we come to self-discipline, which is inside those values. What I mean by self-discipline is, it's that sacrificial of personal passions and pleasures. That you sacrifice those passions and pleasures to allow you to do or to work on your career.

How can you have self-discipline? The rule number one is to get vitamin N. Vitamin N? Yes. That's the rule number one. You need to inject yourself with vitamin N. N is for? N is to learn to say no.

That's a vitamin. Yeah. That's how to get self-discipline. Secondly, setting your priorities right. Thirdly, is avoid complaining. Those are the three factors which can lead you to self-discipline. And to tell you that doing all these things is not one night event. It's a process.

It's like going to a gymnasium. If you go to gymnasium for nine hours, I go for three months. Who is going to get the muscles, good muscles? It's me because I'm going for three months. Who is going to get the muscles, good muscles? It's me, because I'm going for three months. If you go for nine hours, it's just nothing. You destroy your body. So it's a process, it's a process, it's a real process. That you can actually, in the three-month time,

you have absorbed the self-discipline. That's why I always tell people, it's not a one-night event. To get vitamin and learning to say no in everything is not easy. Setting your priorities right is not easy. Avoid complaining in anything is not easy. But if you combine the three things, you can enhance self-discipline. And without those three, then there is no self-discipline. That's what I mean by actually trying to tell people self-discipline is the key to any professional sports person or sports woman.

And I've heard you say before that the discipline, it doesn't restrict us, it actually gives us more freedom. Absolutely, yes. I always say the disciplined ones are free in life. The indisciplined ones are not free. They're in prison. Because you are in discipline and wherever you go, you know that I am not supposed to do this and you are doing it.

That means you are in prison. In this world, we need to be free, work free, live a honest life. And that's the way to go. Yeah. You're commonly known for the phrase, no human is limited. When you say no human is limited, what do you mean by that? No human is limited, Hercule, is not applying purely to sportsmen and sportswomen. It's not for running alone.

It's for all the professions in this world. own. It's for all the professions in this world. I want that engineer actually to remove that barrier in his mind, that he or she can think and innovate something which can help the world. I want that teacher actually to have the best mind to inject knowledge to the kids. I want that psychologist actually to have the best knowledge to actually talk to people and remove what they have as a problem. I want that coach actually to have the best skills to instill to his both women and men. to instill to his both women and men. I want that policeman to really know how to talk to people and to handle peace and security in his or her own country. I want that leader to really provide the real skills of leadership.

I want those world leaders actually to embrace that they are not limited and make sure that the world is in peace and the world is developing towards a positive direction. That's what I mean by no human is limited. It implies to everybody, it's a universal thing which affects every human being in this world. And if everybody actually absorbs it and grabs that place, no human is limited. You can wake up tomorrow and walk. You can wake up tomorrow and run. You can wake up

tomorrow and do anything. I want that student actually to get the first glass on us because yours is not limited. I want that person actually to get that expensive course and walk on it and pass it because it is not limited. That's what I mean. How do you instill this sort of philosophy in your own children? Is it hard? Do they see what you do and that inspires them? Or do you also have any sort of specific ways that you talk to your kids about things like this? I'm trying actually always to talk with my kids in a free way.

Yeah. To tell them, I always ask them, do you know why I'm going to the camp from Monday to Saturday morning? They say yes. To do what? To train. After training, you go and compete. After competing, you win.

After winning, then you make us comfortable and pay our school fees. That's what my children are saying. So I told them, you are also not limited. Go to school school work hard come and play and do anything else and you will be successful and they are accepting

yeah it's been such an honour honestly Elliot to talk to you you're someone who has been incredibly inspirational for me in my own life

you know when I go running has been incredibly inspirational for me in my own life. You know, when I go running and I'm feeling tired, I often think of you. I think, come on, run like Elliot. You know, that literally happens in my mind. I stand up a bit taller. I think, keep your form, keep your good posture like he does. So I know you know you're inspiring millions of people around the world. You're certainly inspiring this British guy here talking to you right now.

Before we finish up, just a couple of things in my mind. Many people these days when they run, they try and distract themselves from the pain with music or podcasts. Do you have any view on the benefit of running with music and or podcasts? During the easy runs, it's good to listen to music and listen to podcasts. During the easy ones? Yes. Yeah.

But with the intensive runs, I don't think you will listen because you're just pushing your body and music and podcasts cannot work. But with the easy runs, when you are relaxing, when you are at the gym, when you are at the bike, after bike, podcasts and music is really good. Fantastic. Yeah. Because you can actually listen to a podcast for an hour and you forget that it was running for an hour. So it's one hour.

The breaking two hours was of course done in specific conditions. You obviously have shown yourself that you can run a marathon in under two hours, which is still one of the most incredible things I have seen. in under two hours, which is still one of the most incredible things I have seen. Do you think within your career it's going to be possible to do that in a competitive marathon? Absolutely, it's possible.

I have demonstrated that actually in an organized marathon, which I personally, I cannot say it was in a specific condition because, you know, a few people actually have dare to try. Not even dare to try. Dare to think. To run under throes. Few.

I think I am the only one who has even have dare to think and dare to try. None has dare to try. None are there to try. Leave alone even, leave alone, they are never even there to think, leave alone to try. Just thinking, running their minds that, can I run too? Never.

So it's still a hard job for people actually to accept but all you know is that I know running under 12 hours in a normal marathon like in London, Berlin, Chicago is absolutely possible and where's that going to come from

where's that improvement going to come from is it training nutrition, mindset, shoes? I mean, where do you think? Because to me, like my kids, we were talking about this last week, Daddy, just another minute to go, if he can do that. But of course, at that level, 10 seconds is huge. A minute is like another marathon. Like, where do you feel that improvement is going to come from? The improvement is actually going to involve many things. Nutrition will be there.

Technology will be there. Teamwork, teammates, your right systems are going to be like teammates. Those who are walking, people walking around you, will take their key positions. And all will be there on an athlete, after those right systems, if that athlete actually asks the right man and he has really think and he wants to try, then he will run under two hours. First and foremost,

the systems might be there in a good way. Yeah. But is this person actually, as he agrees in his heart and mind, to try to run under two hours? That's a big question. Which we should put on and we should actually make it actually before we tell somebody to come and try. make it exactly before we tell somebody to come and try. We need to, you,

himself, I need to come in a broad daylight and say, hey, I have thought enough. Yeah. And I want to try. Do that. Then the system comes in.

Yeah. And we set the date. It's, it's so inspiring speaking to you. And I'm pretty sure this conversation is going to inspire everyone to do their own version of a sub-two-hour marathon in their own lives. It may not be a sub-two-hour marathon, but it could be, you know,

whatever it might be for that person. But as you say, you need to imagine it. You need to believe it first before you're ever going to achieve it. I think that's a very, very powerful message. Elliot, this podcast is called Feel Better, Live More. When we feel better in ourselves, we get more out of our lives. And finally, at the end of, for me, a wonderful conversation with an incredibly inspirational guy, I just wonder for people who are struggling around the

world, they're struggling with the state of their lives, they're struggling with, you know, making things consistent, doing the things that they said they were going to do, have you got any final words for them? First and foremost is that, you know, many people are struggling, many people are clearly have lost hope. And, you know, when you lose hope, they say say first and

foremost is that you can survive with water for 40 days. But if you lose hope it's only 5 seconds and you are dead. So it's good to have hope. And the other one is that we should actually try to understand

about life. And to know what life and to know what life entails. You know, then it will clearly help us not to struggle so much, but to understand it, walk on it slowly by slowly

and you'll learn to learn. Ali Kupchagi, thank you so much and good luck for everything you're doing. I really appreciate it. Thank you very much. Really hope you enjoyed that conversation. As always, do have a think about one thing that

you can take away and start applying into your own life. Thank you so much for listening. Have a wonderful week. And always remember, you are the architect of your own health. Making lifestyle changes always worth it. Because when you feel better, you live more.