Financial Audit - I Confronted The Governor Of Michigan | Financial Audit

Starting point is 00:00:00 We're the Hartford, with decades of experience ensuring millions of unique small businesses, when it comes to your small business insurance. Thank you. One size, absolutely, does not fit all. Get a quote or find an agent today at thehartford.com slash small business. Kayak gets my flight, hotel, and rental car right, so I can tune out travel advice that's just plain wrong. Bro, Skycoin, way better than points. Never fly during a Scorpio full moon.

Starting point is 00:00:29 Just tell the manager. you'll sue. Instant room upgrade. Stop taking bad travel advice. Start comparing hundreds of sites with kayak and get your trip right. Bad advice? You talking to me? Kayak, got that right. Ladies and gentlemen, special episode today with the governor of Michigan. I'm going to be auditing the state's finances.

Starting point is 00:00:50 But quick little introduction to say, hey, this is the day before election day across the country. Make sure you take advantage of your right to vote. Get out there. Vote. Lots of state and local elections, and I think one federal election for a special congressional run here in Texas. Just make sure you get out there and vote. Enjoy the episode. You got to use tariffs like a scalpel, not a sledgehammer. That's a political talking point.

Starting point is 00:01:12 I've never heard one of those in person. That's wild. Food stamps, let's say, or food assistance. Have we set up our systems in a way? We're also just discouraging people from going out there and being contributors. You know, this is the part of the show where I usually go through the spending. And it's like, we got some bull's spending in there. We got some fucking tequitos.

Starting point is 00:01:29 This is some bull sh- yeah, you're stopping in the gas station, get yourself some bulls shit. Fuck off. Political extremism. It's scary. What do you think is going on with political extremism right now and how would you solve it? Your blood got thin moving down south, isn't it? Sign up for the new and approved dollar-wise budgeting app. Take the free trial and if you like it, sign up for the annual version to save a ton of money and get my budget-friendly cookbook signed by me and mail directly to you.

Starting point is 00:01:52 And for limited time only, if you want to bundle all of my educational programs together with the budget app, join Dollar-Wise Central and save 80% Take the trial and learn more at dollarwise.com. Hi, I'm Gretchen Whitmer. I'm the governor of Michigan, and this is financial audit. This is fucking crazy. What? This is just so weird. The governor of my home state, and we're doing an audit on the home state and talking

Starting point is 00:02:20 some more things. This is crazy. I know. I'm so glad to be with you. I appreciate all the things you do. Really? I mean, right now, we'll see how I feel in 60 minutes. People on the left call me a fascist.

Starting point is 00:02:33 So you're saying that as a Democratic governor who's going to be the Democratic nominee for president at some point. Definitely, definitely not running, though. Anyway. It's really good to hear that I'm not a fascist anymore. Listen, you know what? Everyone's got opinions right now. I'm not going to pay attention to any of that. No, money's super important.

Starting point is 00:02:55 Well, thank you. I think what you do is important. Yeah. Well, thank you. I really do appreciate that. And when it comes to actually like extremism and divisiveness, I would love to hear your opinion on that, you know, towards the end. But, you know, I'd love to start with kind of Michigan finances in general,

Starting point is 00:03:09 just kind of what the state looks like, and then do some Michigan policies and then some national ones. Because, you know, at some point, national might be involved in this conversation with you. Let's go. We'll see. I want to start, though. So Michigan, 10th most popular state, pretty big economy. You know, it is a major state.

Starting point is 00:03:28 It's an important state. in the world of politics, you know, it's gone Trump twice. It went anti-Trump once, right? Yep. It went Biden. So, you know, it's very important. We were discussing beforehand you don't like the term Rust Belt because it feels like it's done.

Starting point is 00:03:41 But, you know, that's a very important, like, mega region in the United States. You know, the Midwest, it's the most populous megalopolis. So it's very important. And kind of how states are doing there and how they're running their economies, how their economies are doing, how the state governments are. overall working, I think, kind of sets a precedent for how many other states around the country do. Yeah. So I want to know first, we'll get into some of the numbers, but when you look at the state budget,

Starting point is 00:04:09 when you sign a budget into law, when you advocate for certain things, what are some of the primary things you're thinking of when it comes to revenue collection, when it comes to where we're distributing revenue? What are our key priorities for you? What are we hyper-focused on? So when we think about making sure that anyone can come to Michigan and build the life they want. That's really the North Star. That is who we are. You know, people came to Michigan from around the world for a job in the auto industry. Well, I left. Decades ago. I know. Well, it's time for you to come home.

Starting point is 00:04:38 Well, it's a little cold. But, oh, you've got weak, huh? Anyway. Sorry, continue. You know, people came from around the world to Michigan to get into the middle class. You could get a job on the line. You didn't even have to go to any schooling beyond high school and you could get in the middle class for a second home up north on the lake. I mean, it was a great quality life. It's why we've got such rich diversity. It's why we've been the center of manufacturing for a long time. And that's a great strength. But we know manufacturing is changing, right? The whole world is changing rapidly. And so we think about making sure that Michigan stays competitive so that we've got the resources to invest in our people, making sure that we've got the skill sets that are necessary for advanced manufacturing

Starting point is 00:05:23 jobs, jobs of the future, making sure. or that we're investing in places so that there are cool places for people to live and that we're landing projects. You know, it's a competitive world. We have to out-compete other states. We have to out-compete other countries to get big investment that leads to good paying jobs. And right now, you know, I think we've done a lot of good things in Michigan. It's tenuous with the tariff chaos that we're all navigating.

Starting point is 00:05:47 This week ushers in another new era of Trump tariffs. And world leaders are trying to figure out how to respond to President Trump's attempt to reshape the global economy. Columbus, Michigan, of four farmers feeding the state, but this year there's a new stressor. Tariff. Tariff. Tariffs. These tariffs are starting to take a bite. China slap new tariffs on many items.

Starting point is 00:06:06 Toys, furniture, smartphones. Just about everything you can think of that comes from another country, you're going to end up paying more for it. We feel it. We're more hard, more difficult in Michigan because of agriculture and advanced manufacturing, specifically autos, we're more sensitive to the tariff nonsense. And so I think that's a major concern on my mind. And I do have a question about the tariff. I mean, we can, well, actually, I'll jump into that. That kind of goes into the Michigan politics, you know, side of things.

Starting point is 00:06:33 When it came to NAFTA, projected we lost manufacturing jobs in Michigan of about 44,000 by 2010, 112,000 by 2018, with even expanding into more Chinese trade. And Michigan lost, you know, potentially upwards of 231,000 jobs since NAFTA was enacted. manufacturing jobs losing about 21.3%. Now, Trump's trade wars or deals that he's trying to do, they tend to be more nationalistic. They tend to be more protective. If Michigan, specifically, has lost 21%. You know, I do tend to like a good mixture of globalism

Starting point is 00:07:16 and then some patriotism, nationalistic. You know, I think there's a good hybrid to be done. But in general, the political left does tend to be more globalistic right now, stereotypically, right? oversimplifying, and the right tends to be more nationalistic. Wouldn't you of the Rust Belt, sorry, state of Michigan that lost 21% in those sectors be more in favor of something that's a bit more protectionist? Well, yes and no.

Starting point is 00:07:40 You got to be really smart, right? You got to use tariffs like a scalpel, not a sledgehammer. It's not the answer to everything. That's a political talking point. I've never heard one of those in person. That's wild. That's wild. But it's true.

Starting point is 00:07:51 I mean, you've got to be really thoughtful about it. Tariffs have their place. Sure. We've always had some sort of a tariff scheme because we can compete. We can out-compete anyone on a level playing field. But there are a lot of countries that aren't playing on a level. Yes, we can. Absolutely. For price? Our price of labor is substantially more expensive in the United States. When you look at quality, when you look at efficiency, yes, we can't. But we can have a level playing field. And because of so many decisions that have made over many decades, we know that our North American auto industry, relies on parts that are going back and forth

Starting point is 00:08:28 over the Ambassador Bridge in Detroit to Windsor, Canada, seven, eight times a day for parts. I mean, this trade is really important. We've built it in. Trump negotiated the USMCA or whatever you want to call it, depending which country year,

Starting point is 00:08:43 and they all call it something different because they want their own country to start first. I totally wholeheartedly want us to onshore and bring as much manufacturing to the shores of the United States. by the same token, I'm very sober about who our allies are and who's really been a part of our growth and what we've required manufacturing to rely on. You can't set up a plant overnight. It takes years. These companies make decades and investments decades on the front end.

Starting point is 00:09:11 And so it's manufacturing is different than almost any other type of commerce that we have. And that's why it needs to be used as a scalpel, not a not a sledgehammer. You know, that certainly makes sense from the perspective. of, you know, whatever political party we're leaning from and everything like that, I will say I just want to start out of the gate from my audience, even though people on like the far left call me fascists and stuff, we were even talking about this before.

Starting point is 00:09:36 Like, I took out of just pure curiosity when people were putting me in political camps, political tests like a week ago, and I'm aggressively, boringly, but obnoxiously centrist. Like that fence is going right through my assing, one out my mouth. It is brutal. I apologize, Governor. That's a visual, thank you. It is, but a noxious fence sitter.

Starting point is 00:09:57 You know, one of the more controversial, not controversial things, but because you talked about, you know, a plant doesn't get set up overnight, right? Yep. You've done a lot of research. You got a lot there. Well, you know, this is exciting. You know, a part of the spending that kind of comes out of the state could be more incentive type spending, but we're talking like the blue oval battery park.

Starting point is 00:10:20 That incentive package was cut from. 1.03 billion to $409 million. You know, and if we're thinking about plans being set up overnight, you know, this is one of the more controversial things that was done from the state government perspective. And that was projected jobs from 2,500 down to 1,700. And then the state pulled a separate $100 million grant tied to lighting reductions there. And then there was the make-it-in-Michigan, you know, billion dollars on five EV-Battery-Battery-related projects pledged there, you know, where we're choosing to put the money that obviously other people

Starting point is 00:10:59 are making and whatnot. And then we're kind of reducing some of the incentive packages we're doing to certain plans. And like you said, it's not an overnight thing. When they get in there, you know, what is your thoughts on that? In terms of where we're putting the money to help businesses actually relocate to other states, especially when we're kind of slashing and then saying, no, it's going to go into five EV battery plans. You know, I'd love to. to hear your perspective. I think when you talk about autos, you know, there's no question that the technology is changing and evolving. And we're getting smarter, we're getting cleaner. That's a good thing, right? And under the Biden administration, they had a lot of incentives. And we saw a huge amount of investment

Starting point is 00:11:39 that was being contemplated or begun in this country during the Biden administration. Now, with the Trump administration, a lot of things are getting pulled back. And business is nervous, right? You know, as well as I know, when there is an uncertain. you know, strategy when the rules keep changing. What happens in uncertainty? It's paralysis, right? You stop spending. You pull back. You wait to see, is the dust going to settle? And we're going to make these billions of dollars of investments. And so one of the things we know, though, as more electric vehicles come online, as we build up the grid and support people being able to travel with an electric vehicle, where the batteries are built is going to be the center of

Starting point is 00:12:22 gravity. They're going to be the heaviest component in the car. And so battery plants are really important to Michigan as we think about the long-term dominance in mobility. We are currently the home of R&D for almost every auto company on the planet. Michigan loves them cars. Yeah. And but we've got to also be able to be the place where they can build batteries.

Starting point is 00:12:46 They got the expertise and the concentration of assets in Michigan. and that's why, you know, really getting aggressive around that space has been important for us. Which, I mean, I can certainly vibe with, but, you know, as like the CEO, the state, right? And we're thinking about what CEOs are doing. Right now, 87% of CEOs in Michigan expect a weaker overall state economy looking over the next decade. Yeah. Well, there's no question that when you look at right now what's happening, there are a lot of very, you know, troubling signs about what's happening in the economy. And I think a lot of it stems from the unpredictability of the caris, the tariff network and policies right now coming out of D.C.

Starting point is 00:13:27 I just, it's challenging. And I have been advocating with the president, with his cabinet, with folks in Washington, D.C. I mean, I go no matter who's in office because my job is delivered. Well, I wasn't there for that particular press conference. That was very funny. That was very funny. Wasn't it? I mean, come on.

Starting point is 00:13:47 I can laugh at it now. Yes, yes, yes. But, you know, my job is I'm the governor of Michigan. I got to show up and fight for the people of Michigan and the Michigan economy. And that's really what I'm doing when I'm trying to set the table, when I'm trying to make sure that our people have skills and that you understand, you know, how to have personal finance, you know, passing a law so that we are arming our people with information

Starting point is 00:14:13 so they can make good choices and build the lives that they want. All of these things are related. And I am very excited to talk about that. because that is something I've advocated for these past three years. But I do want to talk about, again, the state of Michigan first. Sorry, I get distracted into rabbit holes way too easily. So, outstanding debt for the state of Michigan, $6.925 billion by the end of last year. Now we're looking at 2024's financials because I believe 2024 to 2025 financials for the state

Starting point is 00:14:43 of Michigan just closed out this month or last month, if I'm not mistaken. However, good news. That debt went down three hundred. million dollars or 4.2% year over year. Geo bonded debt, $691.2 million, but then, you know, the vast majority of that $6.9. is revenue dedicated from transportation and state building authority. And then the government itself does have lease commitments of $729.4 million in general. Then there is MD Capital commitments year-end $3.3 billion. How do you feel about the debt of the state of Michigan?

Starting point is 00:15:18 I mean, 4.2% paid off year over year. You know, if you were a guest on the show, you know, I wouldn't be screaming too much of that. That's pretty okay. You know, that's pretty chill. That's progress. We've paid off a lot of debt, and I'm proud of that. I think that that's really important. One of the things that states can't do, like the federal government does, is run deficits, right, borrow money.

Starting point is 00:15:39 Like, we can't do that. We've got to have a balanced budget. I have had a balanced bipartisan budget every year that I've been governor. I've been to Wall Street to meet with rating agencies. We secured an upgrade in our bond rating. AAA, right? These are... Double A, I think, right now.

Starting point is 00:15:55 But, you know, that was an upgrade from where we were. And so I think it's important to have our fiscal house in order. It impacts everything that we're trying to do. So we take that very seriously. It's not sexy to most, but I'm glad that you find it exciting. Oh, it's... Yeah. No, I'm gooning over here.

Starting point is 00:16:12 Do you know what gooning is? You know what? I actually was just hearing about gooning. Really? from who? The lieutenant governor? Whoa. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:16:23 Is that a controversial thing? Where was it? I was, I don't know. I had something on television? They're talking about gooning on TV. That sounds right. This is Goon Central. You were talking to a guy who was spending his money on spicy media.

Starting point is 00:16:37 Buddy, you withdrew, what is this adding up to? About $700, would you say? $700 in cash. That's a lot. I can't think of anything. Not stripper. No. No, he doesn't do that anymore. No, I just stay at home all day. Really?

Starting point is 00:16:52 He really doesn't go anywhere. It's expensive gooning. It's a smoking fucking. Now, if I saw that in the government's books, some only f-purchases, I'd be a little concerned. They're not there, are they as we go through here? Is that what you were talking about when you were saying he was gooning, right? Probably. Yeah, he probably had that O-F. So educate your listeners who are not as cool as you. Gooning.

Starting point is 00:17:14 Endless permanent man. Never finishes. I appreciate. I apologize. And press secretary, I apologize. I keep seeing her there. I'm judging on her facial reactions. I was just hearing about it.

Starting point is 00:17:27 Yes, it was your show. Thank you for educating me, Caleb. One thing that is a slight concern, though, there is the, if we look at the overall, the net position. Yeah. Of the state of Michigan, it is still negative $1.3 billion. Now that's like assets owned and then commitments that is required spending. So, yes, we're running a surplus.

Starting point is 00:17:49 or at least we're breaking even, but overall in general we are still in a negative net position. So negative net worth essentially for translating from someone's household to the government of Michigan. How do we feel about that? Let's talk about student loans. I know it's something we all avoid talking about, but if your private student loans are crushing you,

Starting point is 00:18:10 why refi might be exactly what you need. They don't rely on your credit score alone. They look for borrowers who have the desire and the ability to repay. That is a game changer in a market where most lenders only see a number. Interest rates under 6% guaranteed. That's practically a unicorn in student lending. Plus, they offer structured payment plans to lower your monthly bill and even a co-senter release program so your mom and dad can step off the hook. Why Refi is known for their personal service. No faceless call centers, you get a dedicated

Starting point is 00:18:45 rep who actually cares about your progress. They've got to a 4.6 star rating on Google, which tells you people genuinely like working with them. So if your private student loans are burying you, it is time to reach out. Why Refi wants to help you climb out of debt, not push you further into it. Check them out at yrefi.com slash hammer. That is, Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash hammer, or call AAA-973-978. That is, AAA 973-3978. Break free from the high-interest trap. and get your finances under control once and for all? Well, it's, I'm not, I don't love it.

Starting point is 00:19:24 I don't love the fact that we've built a budget based on some expectations from the federal government that right now with the shutdown, we don't know what is going to happen and what's not going to happen. We've got a lot of folks who get food benefits from the feds that the money's not coming in. So, I mean, this is, I think, a really lousy position

Starting point is 00:19:44 to be in what we can control. We try to make sure that we get our budgets done on time and that they're balanced, but there are a lot of things that we can't control, and so we've got to have enough flexibility to make decisions along the way in our budgets. And when it comes to spending, health and human services is $35.57 billion or 44% of the spending in the state of Michigan. If we're talking food stamps, let's just say, or food assistance, you know, I was, I used to be, I mean, I still am. I want people to have assistance who need assistance, especially those that fall back. It's a safety now, right?

Starting point is 00:20:17 Yeah. Safety. I've had so many people on this show now. And I know we get the worst of the worst. It is. Not you. I'm sorry. Your personal finances are probably okay?

Starting point is 00:20:26 Yeah, they're in pretty good shape. Nice. Okay. So, but I've had so many people on this show where they are specifically choosing to not go work more hours because then they'll be taken off benefits. And I'm wondering, even though I want to support people who fall on hard times, obviously, because they're human beings. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:44 Have we set up our systems in a way, let's say the state of Michigan, where, where we're also just discouraging people from going out there and being contributors. Yeah. Well, that is an obscene and I think rare example of where the system is not perfect, right? That we want people, we want to incentivize work. We want people to be gainfully employed and not reliant on state funding. But we recognize that there are a lot of people who right now are struggling to just take care of their daily needs or family's needs. So that's why this is important.

Starting point is 00:21:16 I understand that you've had people suggest that you could move to Michigan and get some benefits that you can't get elsewhere. That's just not true. And I wanted to go out of my way to address that. Okay. Wow. Okay. You know, we're all playing by the same federal rules. And so every state should be the same on those fronts. You know, we have different interpretations, different applications. Some of us make it easier to apply, et cetera. But I think that that's something worth highlighting. Now, my big concern when I look through the finances of the state of Michigan is the funding ratio for the pension. Michigan's next budget is on Governor Gretchen Whitmer's desk. And a primary focus of the budget, as it always is, is public education. The move in the lame duck session is aimed at bringing greater financial stability to troubled districts.

Starting point is 00:22:02 This is much less than the last fiscal year. We're talking about an unfunded liability of about $27 billion, but a good chunk of that doesn't make it to the classroom. The state ranks 44th in the nation when it comes to starting. pay. The average starting salary for Michigan teachers was $41,645. That's around $4,800 less than the national average. There's not a lot of economic incentive to pursue a career and teaching. The budgeting could result in layoffs in the upcoming year. We're talking 74.83% is adequately funded for what is needed to fund for the entire state pension. I would love to hear perspective on this. Now, I will give a W that's gone up from 66.6.6.3% last year to 74% this year,

Starting point is 00:22:49 but that is still very far away from mandatory that needs to be handed out. And honestly, the gain has only been caught up through market recovery. Yeah. Well, you know, we've got a state treasurer Rachel Eubanks, who I think does a fantastic job. We've made a lot of headway on whether whether it's paying down dent or increasing our rating. But there still is more work to do. There's no question. I mean, pensions have been an important tool in getting people to go into public service.

Starting point is 00:23:20 Yes. And we saw with the Detroit bankruptcy about 10 years ago that all the pensioners ended up not getting fully what they expected to when they worked for, like the city of Detroit for as many years as they did. So these pension systems can be unwieldy, but we have a duty to fund them. Sure.

Starting point is 00:23:41 I mean, the pension system being $24.4 billion underwater is five times the annual K-12 school aid fund contribution. So it's going to take a long time to close the gap. And then also with a retiree to active ratio of one to three, it's a little scary. What would you do to fix it? You know, I'm curious, I know you've done a ton of research here.

Starting point is 00:24:01 Where do you, how do we stack up? What are you seeing things that other states are doing that we should be, that we should learn from? You know, I'll be honest, I was just pulling data from the state of Michigan and hyper-focusing on state of mission

Starting point is 00:24:13 because even when it comes to a lot of the guests on the show, I try not to sit there and endlessly compare them to other people. I take a look at their situation. I'm like, okay, here's things that aren't good, what can we do to fix it? Now, fixing a pension,

Starting point is 00:24:26 that is not my expertise. But I would absolutely love to hear you know, kind of what you would do. If you had the dictatorial stamp in the state of Michigan, how would you fix this pension underfunding ratio? Well, at the end of the day, right, I don't get to have a dictatorial ability to fix every problem that I see.

Starting point is 00:24:46 And I think that's not how it should be, frankly. I got to work with the legislature to have policies that make sense that everyone can live with. And right now I've got a Republican House and a Democratic-controlled Senate. I think that we did a lot of good things in this last budget that we got done, whether it is cutting taxes on overtime and tips like the House. Republican leadership wanted to do. It's similar to what President Trump has done on the national level, or it is investing in kids and newborn health that was a Senate priority. We got a lot of good stuff done, but there's still, there's always going to be additional work to do to shore

Starting point is 00:25:26 up as we think long term, especially as we've got so many public servants who are aging and are going to be relying on this. So how can I fix it overnight? I can't. I can't fix it overnight. Not overnight. I recognize that it's an important part of a long-term solution that we've got to continue to strive toward. Well, what is the steps to put in for the long-term solution, though, to fix the pension? Want to know a dirty little secret? And no, I'm not starting an only...

Starting point is 00:25:55 You're not broke because you suck with money. You just can't see where it's going. If your bank account is empty at the end of every month, that is not bad luck. That is bad tracking. And it's exactly why I use DollarWise. It shows you exactly where your money is going every single month, spending, subscriptions, and savings all in one simple dashboard, everything you need and nothing you don't.

Starting point is 00:26:16 And when you download DollarWise today, you'll get to try it for free, plus three months for just $9.99. So you can finally take control and see what your money's been doing behind your back. Click below to get started. Well, first, as you said, you know, we were in a stronger position than we were, and a lot of that's been driven by the market. So we'll take it, right? But how do we ensure that we're putting more resources in?

Starting point is 00:26:40 We've got our Mipsters, which is our school employees' retirement. That is going to be coming offline in a few years because we're paying and we're getting up to full funding there. And so that is one additional mechanism that we'll have to put toward additional retirement dollars. So my concern when it comes to the, you know, I know that's not a retirement plan for everyone in Michigan. the employees for the state. But when it comes to, especially on the federal level, entitlement programs that are put in,

Starting point is 00:27:11 I'm a big fan a lot of the concept of a lot of them, but one thing that we at least find within the last hundred years, if a big entitlement is put in, it's impossible to get rid of. And my fear with, you know, like a pension plan like this, right?

Starting point is 00:27:25 Is it so attached, you know, people are going to be very patriotic about it who are, you know, state employees. But if it is not a sustainable system, it's going to be borderline impossible to tweak in a significant enough way to change it or even get rid of. Kind of like Social Security, it's not going to work from my generation. I'm going to get a substantially less amount of money.

Starting point is 00:27:45 And that sucks. And it's going to be much more on the level of a literal Ponzi. It's not right now because right now, you know, money coming in, it's not fully dependent on money coming in. By the time I retire, it's going to be fully dependent on money coming in. So that's what makes me nervous about, like, the pension system. Well, I think to be clear, you know, people aren't getting pensions now, right? Like, this is not a long-term issue that we're seeing continuous, you know, continued in terms of policy. Previous governors and legislators got into the pension system.

Starting point is 00:28:21 I'm not. Yeah. And I've been doing this for 25 years. Well, you're going to be president, so we don't have to worry about it. Well, we're phasing out is what I'm saying. So as you think about, like, how is this sustainable over the long run? it's not going to be as big an issue for us in the long run because it's not available to people.

Starting point is 00:28:37 That's good. Now, spending, 44% goes to health and human services, have we said, 31% to education, transportation, 6.8%. And I know that was a big thing for you. I remember fix the damn roads when I still live there. Yes, sir. 4.3% to the general government, public and safety corrections, 3.81%. I assume most of public safety is locally funded. revenue sharing, $1.67 billion, tax credits, $1.46, and I do have a little bit to talk about that as we continue to go through this, and then just some smaller ones in general.

Starting point is 00:29:10 And then when it comes, and I would love to actually learn more about this. When it comes to the revenue and we got operational grants is $33 billion, general tax is $21 billion, education $16 billion, and transportation, $3.7 billion. Go into operating grants. I love to kind of learn a little bit more about that personally. You know, as I was sitting there thinking about how revenue is collected from the state. Operating grants where?

Starting point is 00:29:35 I mean, do you have a specific department question? Well, as we were just pulling in, like, where the money is coming into the state. A big chunk operational grants. You know, maybe through everything I was pulling from the state's websites, it just wasn't specific enough, but I was like, what is this? I'm so curious. Maybe she could answer it for me. Yeah, I'm going to, I don't want to.

Starting point is 00:29:56 I don't want to guess off the top of my head and be wrong. Yeah, fair enough. Government activity revenues. Totally good. It just, yeah, it could be a variety of things. And it's probably a lot of a variety of things. And we already talked about the net position, but when it comes to the school aid fund,

Starting point is 00:30:16 that is a balance, but it is restricted for education of $4.45 billion. What's interesting about this, and I'd love to hear your perspective, is there's controversial things that are finding a big part of it. It got weed, you know? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:30:30 Which is interesting. I was much more in favor of legalization many years ago, but so many studies have been coming out these last few years about just kind of overall effects on people. It's not like, you know, shaky dependency,

Starting point is 00:30:43 but many things you do when you smoke every day or no longer is enjoyable when you stop smoking, you know, and just some overall health effects. I mean, if you're putting things in your lungs in general, it's not great for you. The state releases. its annual marijuana tax revenue totals yesterday. $270 million.

Starting point is 00:31:00 Mainly because of the marijuana dollars, we've got about a million dollars of work planned just in road improvements. Outside the state capitals, supporters of the cannabis industry gathered to fight a proposed 24% tax on marijuana. A 24% wholesale tax on marijuana is set to begin in January, part of a long-term plan to fund road construction

Starting point is 00:31:19 in the state budget. Over the last few years, the city's been able to take a much more aggressive approach. in repairing them filling in the potholes thanks to pot taxes. The $42 million in revenue comes from just from recreational sales and is being split among communities that allow these sales thanks to Michigan's Taxation of Marijuana Act. So there is that, that brings in $33.1 million.

Starting point is 00:31:43 Then there's sports betting in eye game. Combined grocery seats, $2.86 to $2.9 billion. But to state taxes and fees is $466. a lot of dependency issues, especially on gambling and things like that. How do you feel that so much of school is being funded through blazing it up and going and blowing all that money? Yeah. Well, you know, I don't love that we see, you know, a lot of gaming funding our schools, etc. But at the end of the day, people are engaging in the conduct and every state taxes it and, you know, operates budgets based on whatever.

Starting point is 00:32:22 taxes they collect. You know, our sales taxes also help fund our schools. Our sales taxes are lower than they are here in Texas. So to make up what the difference is, right? Like there are legislatures and governors past have selected different things to include in the school aid fund. It's not like I came into office and said, all right, this is how we're going to start doing it. But you've got to recognize that sin taxes are always easiest taxes for people, for legislators to take votes on. And that's generally why we. We see them continuing to fund things like schools and everything else in state government. Well, people would say and advocate for it that it hurts the lower income the most.

Starting point is 00:33:01 There's not, yeah, that's not wrong. Yeah. And yet, I think that that's one piece of the education budget. But by and large, you know, it's about a fourth. It's two cents out of our sixth cent sales tax goes to our schools too. Yeah. Okay. And then as we continue there, the school stabilization fund is $1.3 billion.

Starting point is 00:33:22 So, I mean, the overall school funding tends to look relatively healthy, but there is a lot of kind of restricted spending. So 1.3 is stabilization and countercyclical of 477 million, but 4.46 is restricted into education, which I think it's good. At least we're not going in and tapping it, right? Right. Well, we just created that in the last two years, the stabilization fund, because I know it's important that you've got like a savings fund in case some unforeseen thing happens. And who God only knows, right? Like the last seven years, they've taught me anything, is that there could be some new thing around the bend that you're not anticipating.

Starting point is 00:33:57 So we've got a rainy day fund or budget stabilization fund. For the rest of the budget, I wanted to create one for schools because I think it's really important that we've got additional resources. And that's what's next. Yeah. What's that?

Starting point is 00:34:10 This is a good chart. The rainy day fund. Yeah. See? It's only going up. COVID took a little bit. Okay, fair enough. It was hard.

Starting point is 00:34:16 Yeah, it was a little, I'll be honest. I was a little annoyed when I can. came home for Christmas two years in a row. Yeah. Like, we had to eat outside, but we were in inside pods outside. It was a little weird. Then I came back here and then I could just do whatever. Well, that was a bit weird.

Starting point is 00:34:34 I'll be honest. But remember what the temperature was. Here, you can walk around outside all day, right? At home in Michigan, in the winter, we're all inside, breathing on each other. But if I was allowed to be inside outside, why couldn't I just be inside inside inside? Because you were inside, outside with just your small group of people. And the servers and bussers. Listen, Caleb, none of us wants to go back and relive that.

Starting point is 00:34:58 We were doing the best we could with very little or very bad information. I'll accept that. It's time to refresh your yard during spring backyard days at the Home Depot. Get low prices guaranteed on propane grills starting at $179, like the next grill three-burner gas grill. Or get $50 off a select Weber Spirit grill and bring big flavor to your backyard. Then set the scene with Hampton Bay string lights

Starting point is 00:35:23 that bring it all together. Shop spring backyard days for seven days at the Home Depot. Now through May 6th. Exclusion supplies to home depot.com slash price match for details. I just remember being a little annoyed. I'm sure. And it was cold too. Like what the fuck are people doing?

Starting point is 00:35:38 Why the... It's so cold. What are we doing? Like... Your blood got thin moving down south, isn't it? Well, now I hate the summers. So... It's fair. You know, I do, they're, yeah, I'd like to get a place up there again on Gull Lake at some point in retirement. I love Gull Lake.

Starting point is 00:35:55 I used to think razor burns were just the cost of shaving. Like irritation and bumps are just how it works, right? So I kept trying to fix it with fancier creams, cold towels, better prep. But it turns out I wasn't solving anything. I was just managing damage with expensive blades that dull fast and cost way too much. And then I tried Henson. This razor isn't trying to be flashy, it's just engineered better. It's a single blade precision designed to stop tugging, pulling, and that post-shaped fire you've been pretending isn't a problem. My skin is calmer with no bumps, and for once, I didn't need more products, just the right tool. So if your current razor routine feels like a string of workarounds, maybe it's time to upgrade to something that actually works. Check out Henson at the link below.

Starting point is 00:36:39 It is one of those rare swaps that saves your skin and you wallet. get 100 free blades with the purchase of a razor that is over two years worth. Let's get back to the show. Personal tax rate, there was a 2023 dropped to 4.05%, but that was brought back up to 4.25%. And the Supreme Court denied an appeal on August 30th of last year. Were you more of a proponent of keeping it at 4.05 or moving it back to that 4.25? I was a proponent of following the law, which said I had to go back up to 4.25. Okay. If you were able to pass a lot of bring it back down to four, would you?

Starting point is 00:37:13 If someone could tell me how we're going to fund the things that we need to fund. Would you cut back on anything in order to fund that? I think we've made a lot of hard cuts recently. So before I would agree to take more important resources out of our budget, I'd want to know where people think they're coming from. Part of the hardship of being in this spot is the end of the day, I got to make sure the book's balanced, right? And so it angers some people on my left. It angers some people on my right when I say, no, I don't want to look at that tax cut unless you've got a solution for me.

Starting point is 00:37:43 And no, I'm not going to look at the spending unless you tell me where the money's coming from. I'm curious. If this was, you know, me and my obnoxious middle and this was the, what was that are you? This was the right. And this is the left. And let's say Bernie and Mondamia right here. Where are you? It depends on who you ask.

Starting point is 00:38:03 You? I mean, I think I'm. This is a Bose moment. You've been there. Small talks going nowhere, but then the Bose speaker kicks in. Music you can feel fills the room. And no more chat with Danny from accounts.

Starting point is 00:38:17 Your life deserves music. Your music deserves Bose. Find your perfect product at Bose.com. I'm closer to the middle. When I still live there and you're going through the primary, there was a dude with, I think, like, a fake toupee. Oh, yeah. Kind of guy.

Starting point is 00:38:32 I think he's in Congress now. But he was like the progressive, you know, far left running. then you were the more center. He and Abdul El-Sayette, yes. We're both way on the, yes. But then you're one. It really kind of irritated me at the beginning to tell you the truth, because I'm proud to be a very, you know, progressive former legislator with, like,

Starting point is 00:38:50 the receipts, right? Like I'd been in the legislature. I took lots of votes. I had an agenda. And two guys who never ran for anything, ran and, you know, took all these positions and tried to make me look like I wasn't really a good Democrat. And you know what? It irritated me at the beginning, but they actually probably did me a few.

Starting point is 00:39:06 favor because I think more people were open to hearing me out. And that's probably how I won. But can you beat Gavin Newsom? In Michigan? Yeah. I can beat anyone in Michigan. Fair enough. Now, one of the big percentages that money does go to, if we're bringing taxes, you know, legally up from 4.5 to 4.25, there is the working families tax credit. And this is a redistribution type system. And I think a lot of people forget in this country, even compared to many Western countries, Our income tax system is actually towards the top of the progressive world. A lot of the funding that comes in those Western European systems, social democracies that we like, are usually value-added taxes. That's what kind of pays the bills, right?

Starting point is 00:39:47 And that tends to hurt everyone, where we tend to be more progressive, where the top 1% in this country pays, I believe it's like 30% of all income taxes. The top 50% of all income taxes, the top 50% of earners. So we have this where we move the taxes back up. but the state of Michigan, you know, is handing more money out. So there's a single worker with no kids making $15,000 and the federal government might get $6 to $700. There was a match of 6% of Michigan, but now we're getting up to 30%. So the earned income tax credit, that's what that is.

Starting point is 00:40:22 The working families tax credit is what we're calling it now, but it was really the earned income tax credit. And this has been around for decades. A lot of states offer the EITC to draw down federal dollars for people that are working full-time but can't make ends meet. You know, like a lot of people you have on your show, right? You've got people who are working $15 an hour jobs

Starting point is 00:40:43 cannot, you know, cannot make it doing that. And so this incentivizes full-time work by giving people some additional tax relief. And disproportionately, it's like over 50% supports people who are also raising kids. So it's like got that compounding benefit. Yeah, a single parent with two kids making 25,000 hours a year would roughly get $6,800.

Starting point is 00:41:08 And now, you know, you get that 30% match for Michigan. Now, technically, you know, this is a form of redistribution. It is. You know, maybe it's with a good heart. Do you think at the end of the day, it is overall beneficial to the economy in terms of the way we're looking for our economic structure to be created and managed? Well, I think government at the end of the day is really about making sure that every one of us can be safe, right? Like, that's the most basic of government's job is to keep people safe,

Starting point is 00:41:38 but also to create the conditions where every person can thrive, right, to create an economy that business people can have the workforce that they need. I mean, it's all about what are our priorities and how do we make sure that all boats rise, you know, a rising tide lifts all boats. I mean, I think that that's the philosophy that I've always looked at all of these policies with. And, you know, I think that it's important to have debate. I think it's important to understand some of the shortcomings of past policies and look to what others are doing and see, can we make it better? I mean, one of the things that we've done is really invest in our workforce,

Starting point is 00:42:22 bringing down the cost of higher education, bringing down the cost of getting into a trade school. There was something called the Tennessee Reconnect. We, you know, borrowed that idea, made it our own, and we've got the Michigan Reconnect, which helps people 25 and up, go back to school and our additional credentials. So, you know, it's in all of our interest to make sure that those basics are addressed. So there's also one of the more controversial things for EV holders like myself. I have a Model X, and I love it, and they hate me for it, and it's great. You know, we have a $160 a year for EVs since they're not paying, you know, gases.

Starting point is 00:43:02 They're not getting gas tax. Is it fair? Especially if you're more on the clean energy side that they're punished for not having a gas vehicle. So how are you punished for not having a gas vehicle? $160 a year for EVs and $60 a year for P-H-E-Vs as well, yeah. Okay, so that's for a registration fee. I mean, you're still using the roads, right? So it's a-

Starting point is 00:43:25 You know about tolls? It's a register. We have... We're exploring tools. You know, it's a little more challenging because we don't have people cutting through Michigan like we do, Ohio and Pennsylvania. So it's a little more challenging,

Starting point is 00:43:38 but we're studying it. And I think, you know, we're going to explore whether or not, you know, there's a roadway or two or many of that might make sense. Go to Canada, right? Cut through Michigan to go to Canada. Yeah. I don't know if tolls are honestly good or not,

Starting point is 00:43:54 but I just, you know, that's one of the controversial things that I kind of want to bring up. Controversial. It's not like people are like raising stakes. What? Okay. And then we'll move on. How did you get into this?

Starting point is 00:44:06 Can I ask you a question? This? Yes. Why is this your passion? Did you have a bad experience or did you make a bad decision? I was poor as fucking Michigan. Okay. But that was my choice.

Starting point is 00:44:18 Not Michigan's fault. Okay. And I was dumb. Started learning about personal finance a lot. And then after wanting to switch career fields from product management and wanted to work with a YouTuber. Someone kind of led me along for a couple months. Didn't hire me, so I decided to start my own. It's the short version.

Starting point is 00:44:32 All right. Yeah. What's the worst financial mistake you ever made? That I ever made? I mean, I maxed out a credit card at 18 immediately on a piano. I wanted to get a piano because I was going to be a music major. I have to get a nice piano, $2,500. Just there we go.

Starting point is 00:44:47 Or McDonald's every day, the junior of college. Also maxed out another $2,500 card. And McDonald's? That's why we got this? We got this baby. What's that? Damn. So we already talked about, you know,

Starting point is 00:44:59 some of the spending incentives cut back from the Ford Marshall Plan. Then there is the Make It in Michigan where we spent a billion dollars on five EV plants. As of 2025 of this month, lawmakers killed that multi-billion subsidy program, right? Well, we are retooling a bit.

Starting point is 00:45:17 So I'm working with the legislature to make sure we still have some good economic development tools. But, you know, you got a retool. We've got to be nimble. We're competing against Ohio. We're competing against Japan. You know what I mean? Like we're competing against the world.

Starting point is 00:45:33 So we've got to have the tools we need. And then pork. Government loves pork. We got $950 million there. So $234 million public infrastructure grants, like $50 million for downtown Pontiac, $20 million to the city of Wyoming, $20 million, Detroit, Greek Town corridor,

Starting point is 00:45:50 $5 million to Grand Rapids. Children Museum, $22 million, community enhancement projects like 12 million statewide YMCA's, five million Detroit Fisher Building, five million Special Olympics. Five million West Michigan Chamber. Do they not have their own money, Special Olympics? I mean, Special Olympics, are you against Special Olympics?

Starting point is 00:46:12 No, I just, not the biggest fan of taxes sometimes. I understand. Especially now that I have to write the check instead of getting automatic. I get it, I get it. But, you know, this is not unique to Michigan. It's not great. And we are making changes to have more transparency in the process. Yes.

Starting point is 00:46:30 To make sure that people who are promoting whatever project they want to get done have to do it so many days in advance so that the whole world can scrutinize it so that they can make their case that it's the right thing to do. And trust me, I qualify for the Special Olympics. I'm right. 91 million for health care projects, 20 million into the Henry Ford Health,

Starting point is 00:46:50 30 million second on medical center, 10 million for Detroit firefighter health support. And then dozens of social. smaller options like $900,000 to a Troy Cricketfield. That's lots of Indian immigration there. 200,000 to a new Buffalo disc and 1.6 million Grand Rapids Ballet from the state? Why can't Grand Rapids do that? It's a good question, Caleb.

Starting point is 00:47:11 I'll have to tell you what legislator asked for that, and you can ask them that question. That's just, you know, I love my home state. I know. Well, this doesn't make sense when you're looking at it from, you know, 40,000 feet. I get it. But don't we? Before we... I understand.

Starting point is 00:47:26 But the same token, I got to get a budget to my desk. And legislators come with their, you know, with their special projects. And they negotiate them in. And I introduce the budget. It doesn't have any pork in it. All right? Yeah. And I introduced the budget.

Starting point is 00:47:41 So these are not things that I ever was advocating for. Yeah. But the legislature gets their shot at it. And this is often what you see. Detroit downtown boxing gym $2 million. Detroit Zoo, $7 million. We like the zoos. Great. Zos are exciting.

Starting point is 00:47:56 Frankenmuth Youth Sports Complex, 10 million from the state. Potter Park Zoo in Lansing? $10 million? You know, this is the part of the show where I usually go through the spending, and it's like, we got some bulls that's been in there. We got some fucking tequitos. All right, that's what we call them here. Tequitos?

Starting point is 00:48:12 Yeah, you're stopping in the gas station, get yourself some bullshut. Some Special Olympics. Now, we love the Special Olympics. We love the Special Olympics. I just didn't know the state paid for it. Yes. Yeah. Well, actually, and why it's kind of controversial,

Starting point is 00:48:29 a lot of it is like no bid, negotiated late, and sponsored disclosure or afterpack passage. Yeah, I know. It's gross. I mean, I think that every dollar should be, if it's used in those ways, there should be a bidding process, or front end transparency,

Starting point is 00:48:43 which is what I think we're going to get done. There's also $3 million in, I think, this year for state-managed retirement plan marketplace for businesses under 100 employees. Like, we get, like, I'm a small business under an employee. Like, I save money on taxes implementing a retirement plan. Why does the state of Michigan need to come in and use taxpayer money to set up retirement plans for private businesses? It's a good question.

Starting point is 00:49:07 I don't have a great answer for you. Other than I think the goal there is obviously to help the Small Business Association help their members get health care. And at least there, I mean, there are some things in court, like 2.5 million for the Lansing Lugnuts. who goes to the lug nuts? I don't know what a lug nut is. A lug nut is a part in your car, and the lug nuts are the baseball team in Lansing. Hmm. Interesting.

Starting point is 00:49:34 Lots of e-bike incentives. $1,250 per bike. $1,250 per bike. Electric bikes, e-bikes, could soon become more affordable under the new state budget. Republicans say the program is another example of wasteful spending.

Starting point is 00:49:48 The vouchers could save buyers anywhere from $500 to just over $1,200. What was the public feedback about what kind of access there should be now for bikes? I would say it was really split. Some were very much in favor and in support of what the department was proposing. Some were very much against it. So it's expensive, you know, just people are paying a lot of money in taxes. And it's a small percentage overall, but it all stacks up, right?

Starting point is 00:50:12 Right. And, you know, when we're thinking of like the pork that it goes to of almost a billion bucks, like that kind of, that starts to hurt. That kind of starts to hurt. This one was kind of, this is a pilot program put into. law this year, $2.5 million going to grant program aimed at short-term lenders, payday loans, essentially. Government-funded payday loans. Now, I know you didn't advocate for this. I'm not saying that. You're right. I just assumed sign a budget that doesn't have any of those things in it,

Starting point is 00:50:40 like the budget that I introduced in February. In the state of Michigan outlook is actually in general, pretty good. 3.9% growth income per capita this year projected going forward about 3.2%. And we do expect slower growth overall economists are saying, but still growth in Michigan, which is good. You got up to the AA, AA plus. That's exciting credit rating. And Detroit's kind of, you know, getting a nice little rebound. You know, that little core area.

Starting point is 00:51:05 We like that. If I would live anywhere, it would be Grand Rapids, personally, if I move back. But 50% of the year being overcast just can't. Trading Eshwab is now powered by Ameritrade, bringing you an expanding library of education with even more ways to sharpen your trading skills. Access new online courses, insightful webcasts, articles, engaging videos, and more all curated just for traders. Plus, guided learning paths with content designed to fit your unique interests.

Starting point is 00:51:33 No sifting to find exactly what you need so you can spend your time learning to trade brilliantly. Learn more at Schwab.com slash trading. Do that. There is, you know, potential tariff risks right now. Manufacturing is flat to down and uncertainty is definitely high. It is, the state is 49th in population growth. That is a long-term risk. You know, growing population is required for a thriving economy.

Starting point is 00:51:59 NCO sentiment is negative. And, you know, so those are kind of the concerns to state of Michigan. Do you have any thoughts on those before we kind of go on into some of the other good news? Of course I do. I got thoughts on all of it. But, you know, I'll keep it succinct. I think, you know, there are a lot of good things happening. I think overwhelmingly we just saw a new poll come out about kind of,

Starting point is 00:52:20 a sentiment in Detroit. Some crazy number, like 7 to 8% of people feel like we're on the right track. I don't know how long it's been since you've been to Detroit. But we hosted. Well, we hosted the draft last year. It was spectacular. I mean, there's so much good stuff going on. Detroit, Grand Rapids.

Starting point is 00:52:37 Michigan's a great place. And yes, we've got some challenges. But I feel like we're making real headway. And it's an exciting time to be in Michigan. For at least half the year. No, all year round. Caleb, people are going to need places like Michigan. 20% of the world's fresh surface water.

Starting point is 00:52:58 That is true. We don't have nearly the climate stuff that you guys have down here, for instance. Yeah, we got them droughts, droughts and flood. Or on the East Coast, you know. I mean, when we have a ice storm, you know, we got the equipment to take care of it. That is true. The only reason I'd move back to Michigan is if the world is collapsing. That would be the one thing.

Starting point is 00:53:16 Oh, you're kidding. I'm, I'm with you. I'm with you. My family. there. I love Michigan. It's it. I got my Michigan stuff. I know. You got a Michigan gift here too. Oh, thank you. Yes. Hi, I listen to your financial audit. I've curated the exact resources and tools I personally use or would use if I was in certain situations. So take advantage of these offers in the resources section in the description below. The first one, I've moved my investments to

Starting point is 00:53:41 Weble. Do the same and transfer to my investing app of choice and you get cash bonuses of $200 all the way up to $30,000 depending on initial funding amounts and up to 8.1% APY on your money and up to 3.5 matches for your IRA. And then number two, a great new checking account that I've switched over from SOFI and it's called CHIME. Get that $550 bonus when you sign up with direct deposit and get almost 4% on your money just sitting there. And then three, automate your investing with ACORNs.

Starting point is 00:54:16 Usually sign up incentives are only five bucks. but you get $20 with my link. Number four, you can increase your income and boost your resume with a course career certification. Five, if T-Mobile is good in your area, switch the helium and get a literal $0 a month phone plan for the same exact service. But most importantly, go get your free Hammer financial score

Starting point is 00:54:37 and see where you stand in the world of finances. Take the assessment at calebhammer.com. You will not regret any of these change your life today. Yes, let's do that. And while I do this, I mean, this is exciting. So the personal finance being taught in school, I'd love to learn more about that.

Starting point is 00:54:52 Yeah. Well, you know what, it is, there's no question in my mind that we're missing an important... A shark, yes. For the hammer. You're the hammer. There are not sharks of Lake Michigan. But I love Shark Week.

Starting point is 00:55:04 You love Shark Week. Oh, God. You've got a... Yes, there's a whole story there. Okay. Do you want to hear it? No. Okay.

Starting point is 00:55:14 Google Gretchen Whitmer and Shark Week. It's not just Shark. You said this place was... Steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get lost.

Starting point is 00:55:28 Or you could book a stay with Hilton. Welcome to your ocean front room. Just steps from the water. The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay.

Starting point is 00:55:45 Hilton for the stay. Shark week. But anyway, yes. Hammerhead shark because I love sharks. What else? I don't push you over the edge of 2028. Shark week. I'm sorry.

Starting point is 00:55:59 I'm just being a dick for no reason. Let's see. Oh, some coasters, I think. I'm filling coasters. Look at that. The state of Michigan coaster. We love it. It is the Great Lake State.

Starting point is 00:56:14 There you go. And it is the Mitten State, Wisconsin. Fuck off. Like, what are they doing? Wisconsin, give me a break. Yeah, yeah. Tell them to fuck off. Fork off.

Starting point is 00:56:23 Okay. I really appreciate it. I would love to learn more about personal finances being taught. There's something more. Oh, wait. Here's the... Ah. Oh, yeah, Natty.

Starting point is 00:56:36 This is exciting, and I want to close the conversation on a happy note with that. But yes, Western Michigan, the national championship in college hockey last year. Thank you. Hockey puck. Yes. They beat my alma mater, Michigan State on the way. You damn right. We split with Michigan this weekend.

Starting point is 00:56:53 But personal finance being taught in school. So, you know, there's no question that everyone needs to know personal finance. You know, I remember talking to my daughter when she was taking algebra. And she's like, why do I need to know quadratics? I need to know how to pay my taxes and buy a house. And, you know, that sentiment, I think, is real, right? We've got to give people the tools they need to take care of themselves. And we had to do it before they head off to college and get that credit card when they're 18 years old and buy a stupid piano.

Starting point is 00:57:21 I still have it, thank you. Okay, pianos aren't stupid, but to buy a piano at 18 was not smart. It was horrible. It was stupid. So, you know, we want to giving people budgeting, having a rudimentary understanding of markets and how to save. You know, I'm always talking to my kids about maximize what you can. If your employer has some sort of a match, do the maximum.

Starting point is 00:57:45 Like, that's what my parents always taught me. Right. And I did it my whole time. And I've been a public service, you know, my whole life. I'm not complaining about what I make, but I don't make a fortune. It's public service. That's part of it. As governor, it's $159,000 a year.

Starting point is 00:58:00 And certainly that's the highest I've ever been paid. A new book, right? Yeah, I'm donating that money to charity. I can't make additional money while I'm governor. So anyway. But the point is, like, you max it out, you max it out. And we want people to understand that. You know, I think a lot of people get into trouble very quickly

Starting point is 00:58:19 because they just don't have that rudimentary. Even my husband who was a dentist, he went to school, you know, K through 12, went to college four years, went to dental school four years. You didn't have really nice teeth. Thank you. I paid a lot of money. I knocked these suckers out when I was in eighth grade. But anyway, the point is he graduated after all this schooling. Didn't have any idea how to run a business.

Starting point is 00:58:41 No one taught him. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're building. for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for citizens back. So our old dentist killed themselves. Yeah. Oh, God.

Starting point is 00:59:00 That's true. I got dark fast. No, it's true, though. High suicide rate. But I had to, you know, had to figure that out on the fly. Didn't get that rudimentary knowledge. So that's what we're trying to do. Give people, arm people with information.

Starting point is 00:59:14 And this was required for graduation. Yes. Very good. Is there any way out of that? Because I know sometimes you can take like, this is a slightly different class, but it's kind of adjacent, so you don't have to take that class. I don't believe so.

Starting point is 00:59:25 I think that this is, and anyone who's in 10th grade now will have to have had it in order to graduate. Well, W for that, right? I mean, that's great. That's great. It's important. That's very important. Can you change one thing for me, though? What?

Starting point is 00:59:39 This is so moronic. I don't understand because Texas does it too. I think it's just Michigan and Texas, if I'm not mistaken. Tesla cannot be a license as a dealer in the normal sense with the Michigan Vehicle Franchise Act in Michigan. I know we want to protect the auto industry, but we got new type of auto industry coming. I don't know if they build in Michigan,

Starting point is 00:59:57 but like let people just buy a fucking car. And they have to avoid being in-state new direct sales under dealership law, so the sale is orchestrated out of state and then the vehicle titled in Michigan afterwards. And Tesla cannot directly own a service or repair faculty in Michigan under the same corporate structure. That's what?

Starting point is 01:00:19 stupid. It's really stupid. It would take an act of the legislature to get it done. So I can't do it unilaterally. I will say this, though. There's no shortage of Tesla's driving on Michigan roads. Yeah, but it has to be an order out of state. We have to do this. Like, if I buy the cyber truck, which... Who would do that? Well, I love my ex. Like, I'm just saying. I love my ex. Cybertruck, not for me. But if I were to buy them, they're made in Austin, it gets like shipped out of state, then move, then back in. It's really silly.

Starting point is 01:00:49 weird. It's just like, why is the government like picking, well, I guess is going like full old school, like Obama error, winners and losers? It's kind of war. You're picking like the old school dealership. That is weird. I don't know. But in Michigan, too.

Starting point is 01:01:04 Yeah, well, I mean, I think that. I think we can understand the history that, why that's the reality currently in Michigan. But maybe like, you know, get a little sucky, sucky Elon and, you know, try to get him to build some stuff in Michigan. Hey man, Elon, Musk wants to have a conversation. about building in Michigan, I'm all, I'm all years. Yeah. Yes.

Starting point is 01:01:23 Come on in. Why would you go anywhere else? 50% overcast of the year. Depression, I can't do it. I cannot do it. Now, student loans in the country, you know, you'll probably be somewhere nearing the White House at some point, and right now, we got $1.63 trillion dollars is student loans.

Starting point is 01:01:45 That's crazy. In federal student loans alone, not. not to mention private, and we got $40,000 for the average borrower. And 40% drop out, by the way. I'm among that 40%. And that is 45 million people have federal student in debt. And delinquency rates are rising at 7.73%. Now, my big question is, you know,

Starting point is 01:02:07 the Trump administration through the BB did enact some changes, and that kind of included the rap plan. President Trump's new tax and spending law brings sweeping changes to the federal student loan system. Total student debt in America is at $1.8 trillion. It's roughly tripled in the last 17 years. A surge in past due student loans is sparking new concerns about the health of the U.S. economy. Currently have 22,000.

Starting point is 01:02:33 $56,000, $134,000. $108,137 and $48,137 in student loans. In one survey, 60% of younger borrowers said they'd be in their 40s before their student loans are paid up. My daughter's going to a school. She can't afford $240,000 in debt. She's going to be a well-financed barista when this is over. And simplifying a lot of the complicated repayment processes, and that means payments are set at 1 to 10%.

Starting point is 01:03:00 But I've seen all over TikTok. A lot of people mostly on, well, the TikTok generation, like kind of far left. They're like, I'm not going to pay. Then they get their wages to garnish. They're like, I can't afford to pay. And it's like 1% of their income. What is your thoughts on this? Because I know you have a different political philosophy than the president of the United States.

Starting point is 01:03:15 But that doesn't seem like a bad thing. but everyone on the left side of the political aisle was like, this is evil. So where we're sitting right now, there's a f-de-hastres, and everyone's why I smell toast. Do you smell the toast? Yeah, it's a bakery. You're not having a stroke. So I'm not having a stroke. So I'm not make sure I wasn't having, like, something going on.

Starting point is 01:03:31 Okay. I'm sorry. I always forget to tell people. The, you know, when I went to college, way back in my day, when I went to college, the state picked up about 75% of my tuition, and my family and I had to come up with the other 25%. right? And nowadays, it's the exact opposite. So we have shifted, we've, as a society have said, it's not in all of our interests that we have an educated population. It's on you if you were going to pursue that. And so state picks up 25%, the individual picks up 75%. And they're putting more and more

Starting point is 01:04:04 on credit cards, more and more taking out debt, right? And so this is a part of the equation that's gotten us here. Now, what is the solution? I think there's a lot of debate, and I don't think that there's any solution on the horizon right now. But I guess what I would challenge you and ask you is, what do you think? I mean, you're someone that this, you know, you're closer to the generation we're talking about that's carrying all this debt. You've had your amount of debt that you acquired. What do you think the solution is? Because... Well, I think this potentially might have a part of the solution. One thing that many on, you know, the left are kind of angry about this. And trust me, bring a right-wing governor on and I'll critique their things to, you know, you're just on the left-wing.

Starting point is 01:04:44 So obviously we're going to talk about things that are interesting. But they got upset that there are graduate borrowing limits, undergraduate borrowing limits. You talked about how 75% used to be paid for by the state. Now it's 25% and it's on the individual. Well, a lot of the times on the left we've seen borrow an infinite amount of money to go to college, no caps. Why wouldn't the colleges just continue to raise how much it costs to go there

Starting point is 01:05:08 if you can borrow whatever? If one goes up, the other is going to go up. So setting these caps should hopefully at least discourage, like they have to have people in, you know, butts in classrooms, right? Yeah. They have to. And if people can't borrow a certain amount to go there, they won't be able to go.

Starting point is 01:05:25 My hope is that would hopefully, you know, restrict the endless increase of administrators and everything and just bull-shending that colleges do. Now, unfortunately, foreign students, they pay cash. And that's an easy replacement. And in other fears, people will just go borrow from the price. private student loans now. So, but I think what was kind of confusing to me is, like, the solution, I haven't heard

Starting point is 01:05:49 a solution on the left other than just keep raising what people can borrow forever. And of course, the schools are always going to just say, well, can I have more money then? Because you can borrow more. Did you, when Biden supported, you know, had his writing off debt plan, did you, how did that hit you? I wouldn't have qualified at that time. Actually, I think I may have due to my previous year. tax return, I was qualified for like a smaller forgiveness. And I'll take free money. You know,

Starting point is 01:06:17 I'll take free money, but it wasn't a solution. It was nothing long term. It helps the select group of people that have already gone to school, but it doesn't help anyone in the future because it didn't address the actual issue. Right. It was interesting to me, you know, as I talked to people in Michigan, you know, people who did take out debt, had paid it off, who were so like, you know, salty about the fact that someone else who hadn't paid off their debt could get it written off. Yeah. And it was kind of interesting.

Starting point is 01:06:45 I just, it's a hard, it's a hard challenge to figure out what the equitable solution is because we don't want people carrying debt for their whole lives. No, but letting people borrow infinite amount forever. It doesn't. In my, you know, I went to high school in Michigan. I went to a good high school. Yeah. But still, every administrator and everything was borrow any amount to go to whatever school you

Starting point is 01:07:07 want for whatever degree you want. We got people getting bullshit degrees that are not going to try. translating the market in their bar and whatever it takes to go to the school that has the sports team they care about. I mean, this is not working. Yeah, well, we should, we could have a whole conversation about sports and college. If you were president in a hypothetical world, you know, of course you will never run, but would you want the wealthy to pay more taxes? Would I, I mean, just for the purpose of paying taxes or for the purpose of strengthening our, economy and our national debt's insane. And our paying off our national.

Starting point is 01:07:41 debt for purpose of our homeland security and making sure that we've got defense. You know, I think we've got a lot of, a lot of important things that we have not been doing. But do you advocate for tax increases among? I'm not here. I'm not here as a candidate for a higher office and I'm not here to advocate for any new taxes. In Michigan, would you raise taxes? In Michigan, I mean, we did just raise taxes for on sales of cannabis. You know.

Starting point is 01:08:07 But income taxes on individuals or, I know there's no capital gains taxes. I have not introduced an income tax in Michigan now. And you wouldn't support it if it came across your desk. It ain't coming. Okay. I mean, I'm just telling you. I know you want to play the high. You want to play all the hypotheticals, but I'm crowded in reality.

Starting point is 01:08:28 It ain't coming. Okay. Why am I going to take a position on something that's never going to happen? Okay. When you're president, would you propose higher taxes, income taxes, and the wealthy? All that concerns me is, you know, California, you know, they've lost 1.6% of personal tax income because people can move anywhere now.

Starting point is 01:08:49 The UK itself, you know, they've lost 16,500 millionaires going all across the world. They're losing tax revenues substantially 10% lost in taxes and capital gains taxes because they decided to close some loopholes and they're like, let's get people to pay the fair share. And now they're losing more tax revenue. So that's why I wanted to kind of hear your philosophy on this. Now we are wrapping up here. Can I ask a couple quickfires, Mr. Press Secretary? Sorry.

Starting point is 01:09:20 A couple quick fires? Very cool. Quick fires. Very good. Michigan is a declining population state where southern states, you know, Texas, gain 4.3, Florida, 4.7, where states like New York, Michigan, California are leaving. Why do you think that's happening? Why is that transition happening in this country?

Starting point is 01:09:38 I wouldn't see we're declining. We're not growing as fast. Yeah. I think that's an important distinction. The year of that this metric was taken, which was 2020 to 2023 that had a 0.3% loss. In our last census, we were up a percentage point. So whatever. I mean, it's not worth quibbling.

Starting point is 01:09:54 It's just the point that, you know, we do have an older population in Michigan. And I think that's part of why our strategy around investing in people, places, and opportunities, you know, that bring good pay in jobs is going to continue to be really important. But I do have a head of chief growth officer for state in the country to do that. We want to stay focused on how do we grow our population. It's important. And now in the state of Michigan, we are seeing Michigan court rule 6.106 provides that the default presumption is released on personal recognitions, which is no money bond or on unsecured bond rather than cash bail. We are starting to see even a shooting that happened in Austin over the weekend was someone that has already had multiple violent offenses. We know that individuals with 3 to 10 violent crime convictions

Starting point is 01:10:40 represent only 0.9% of the total population, but account for almost 50% of violent crime. And those who have been released from prison account for 70% were re-arrested within three years. Is these no-cash bail systems that we're attending to see places like New York, New Jersey, Illinois, D.C., and we talked about Michigan, is that actually benefiting people,

Starting point is 01:11:00 or is it just... Are we not keeping people safe like we want to? I think, you know, I'm proud of a lot of the trajectories that we're on in Michigan. I think that when it comes to the no cash bail, what we see is a situation where people without resources pay a much bigger penalty than those that do. Just one more example of it is in the criminal justice realm. Our recidivism rate is really low in Michigan. I'm proud of that. But certainly, you know, there are always going to be examples of where someone is, you know,

Starting point is 01:11:34 not a part of the general rule and is an egregious example and I think you've just raised a couple. And then two final rapid fires. First one, a little more sad. Second one, very happy. Political extremism. It's scary.

Starting point is 01:11:47 I think we're in for a violent couple of years. It's an ungovernable city. People are exercising a lot of their rights to take it to the streets and get their voices heard. Political extremism was the number one issue in America. An alarming rise. in political violence across the U.S., targeting both Democrats and Republicans.

Starting point is 01:12:09 Nearly a third of Americans now believe political violence may be necessary to get the country back on track. A man broke into the Pennsylvania governor's mansion in April and set the dining room alight in an attempt to kill Governor Josh Shapiro and his family. President Donald Trump is announcing on true social. Charlie Kirk is dead. The horror unfolded around nine last night. A group of people leaving a young diplomat's reception at the Capitol Jewish Museum in Washington when a gunman opened fire.

Starting point is 01:12:35 Both diplomatic staff at the Israeli embassy were killed. Tonight, it's being investigated as a targeted terror attack. Right now at 604 happening today, Minnesotans will begin saying goodbye to a powerful political leader who was tragically assassinated in her own home. Stop the shield! Let's get their dark! I know people on Martha's Vineyard, on Martha's Vineyard, who, if they had the opportunity, to kill Donald Trump, probably would.

Starting point is 01:13:04 They think he's Hitler. We just saw Charlie Kirk get shot. Me, you know, people are going to view me as more right-wing from this conversation because I push back on some left-wing policies. Sure. And if Governor Abbott from Texas was here, I'd push back on some right-wing policies, that's what happens. But people are going to see that. And they've already called me fascist and Nazi online just because I say personal responsibility is okay with money. Oh, scary. But people are labeling that and then killing them because they're fascists. Kill all fascists. Okay, maybe that makes sense. But if you label a normal person or fascist, you kill them, what do you think is going on with political extremism right now? And how would you solve it?

Starting point is 01:13:37 I think it's really dangerous when we have leaders who want to fan the flames of anger and violence. I think it will continue to see it grow, which is why I take it so seriously, which is why whether I'm the target of it or one of my colleagues on either side the aisle is or the President of the United States is, I speak out against it every single time. I don't make excuse for it. I do not accept it no matter where it's coming from. It's not okay. And I think it's be refreshing if everyone with a platform did that.

Starting point is 01:14:08 And then final, hey, the poll came out today, NCAA hockey. The top three teams, Michigan State, Michigan, Western Michigan. We are the hockey state. That's right. We own this place. National champions last year, Western Michigan. I don't know. You're probably rooting for Michigan State.

Starting point is 01:14:26 But I just want to share a little bit of hockey love here. I love it. Let's go, man. Yeah. Awesome. All right, future president of the United States, Governor Whitmer here. Thanks for joining us for this financial audit. I'd say, you know, Hammer Financial Score for the state of Michigan. Honestly, looks halfway decent. A couple pension

Starting point is 01:14:42 concerns. A couple of that overall net worth concern, but looking at about a six or a seven out of ten. So Calebhammer.com for that. Thank you, Governor. Thank you. And don't forget to join us for the Financial Audit Post Show, where we do an extra 20 minutes of this conversation with me and the team and the producers and we break down this conversation going to more tea. I'll see you there. Click that join button. Bye. Taylor, what's the one question you really wanted to ask, but you knew that you maybe couldn't ask? Oh, we didn't talk about.

Starting point is 01:15:11 Hearing you say in front of the governor. Or gooning out of the gate. That was my favorite moment. Hammer Elite is the best YouTube membership on the platform, and I just upgraded it. Three exclusive dedicated shows every single day, Monday through Friday. Join with the link in the pin comment or description below. This is the best membership you'll ever join.

Starting point is 01:15:32 That's a promise. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30th. The powerful vocals of Demi Levato on May 17th and the signature Southern Country Rock of Eric Church on July 19th. Tickets on sale now at Yamavat Theater.com. Only at Yamava Resort and Casino, celebrating its 40th anniversary. You in? Must be 21 to enter.

Financial Audit - I Confronted The Governor Of Michigan | Financial Audit

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.