Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - A CEO’s Battle Through Cancer and Corporate Turnarounds | Paula Schneider, President and CEO of Susan G. Komen®

Episode Date: October 4, 2023

In honor of Breast Cancer Awareness Month, we sit down with the inspirational Paula Schneider, CEO of Susan G. Komen®, to explore her awe-inspiring journey through uncharted waters in both leadership and her personal battle against breast cancer. Paula exemplifies how true grit and relentless self-belief can overtake fears and redefine how you approach success in every aspect of life.This rich conversation explores:How Paula navigated a deadly breast cancer diagnosis and the power she found in accepting helpHow she was brought in to execute one of the biggest corporate turnarounds at American ApparelHow she stays calm with (literal) fires burning all around herHer unconventional path from starting as a costume design and theater major to becoming the CEO and president of Susan G. Komen®, one of the world’s leading nonprofits in the fight against breast cancer, with almost $1 billion in research fundingHow to make decisions with imperfect information and Paula’s refreshing approach to leading through uncharted territory Proactive cancer prevention, optimal screening times, and being your biggest health advocatePaula doesn’t claim to have all the answers; she simply knows she can find them. Join us as Paula reshapes our understanding of success, demonstrating that it's less about what you know and more about trusting that you can face and conquer the hard things—no matter the odds._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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and find some place to do good and then do it. Okay. Welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I am your host, Dr. Michael Gervais by trade and training a high-performance psychologist. I'm really excited to welcome Paula Schneider to the podcast for this week's conversation. Many would refer to today's guest as a survivor, but it's fair to say her impact goes far beyond survival. Whether she's staring down a terrifying cancer diagnosis or a failing corporate juggernaut, Paula has proven she can conquer the greatest of challenges, turning personal pain into purpose and inspired leadership into real legacy. As president and CEO of the Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation, Paula is responsible for the largest breast cancer research portfolio and one of the most prominent nonprofits in the world. Komen has invested $3.5 billion in research and advocacy, helping reduce the

breast cancer mortality rate by 42% since its inception in 1982. Clearly, no small feat. And then prior to her time at Komen, she navigated one of the most notable retail sector turnarounds while serving as the CEO of American Apparel. Again, no small feat. Across education, fashion, retail management, and nonprofit industries, Paula has demonstrated the kind of business acumen, entrepreneurial expertise, adaptability, and real-world perspective that can move proverbial mountains. That's why I'm so thrilled to explore the passion and perseverance that has allowed her to thrive so brilliantly, even in the face of immense difficulty. I think you'll quickly learn how, in her words, she stays calm with fires burning all around her. So with that, let's dive right into this week's conversation with Paula Schneider.

Paula, you went from a custom design major in college to American apparel CEO, to major fashion brands, to CEO of the Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation. Whew. What an arc. And maybe we can just start with you sharing some of the key experiences that helped shape your professional arc. Yeah, well, it was a very circuitous route. Certainly not one that was, you know, started in one place and you planned all the parts and pieces

because I don't really think that life turns out that way. But I have to say that I think it's all part of being somewhat entrepreneurial to start with. You know, when I got my costume design and theater major, I actually wrote that major, and it became part of the California State curriculum for universities in California, because I didn't see anything else that I wanted to do. So I wrote my major. I graduated with my major. I never actually used my major, but I did have the ability to make a fabulous costume. And I'm wonderful at Halloween. If you want like any tips, I'll be happy to help you there. But I ended up going into the fashion industry because I actually was, I got my teaching

credential because you always had to have a plan B. My mom always said, you know, what's your plan B if you can't make it with plan A? And so my plan B was getting a secondary teaching credential, which I did. And I made $735 a month. I was 23 years old. And you can't live on that even then. And so I decided I started working in a clothing store and ended up going down to Los Angeles, seeing that this whole world in the fashion industry was really exciting and fun. And especially then, not so much now, but certainly then.

And I ended up going into the fashion industry and learning the trade and doing that for many, many years and had my own company. I started my own company at 25 with $5,000 loan from my mom. And we had, you know, literally I grew up very, very middle class. My dad died when I was 20 and my mom was on her own. And, you know, $5,000 was a lot of money at that point for her. But she lent it to me and I created a career from that. But, you know, there's not one straight arc that happens and things happen in your career and you kind of have to go where your heart is. And, you know, after many, many years in the

fashion industry, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. And when, uh, my mom had already had a breast cancer diagnosis and I had two young daughters at the time. And, you know, I, I didn't immediately go into some passion project. I was working and, and I just wanted to get back to my life, which was taking care of my family. And, you know, I had a great career and fabulous friends and all of those things. But when you get a diagnosis like that, it's very life changing, if you will. Go where your heart is.

Kind of follow the path that makes sense to you based on where you are. Have a plan B. Yeah, I'm not really one for a plan B. I really am not one for a plan B. I'm absolutely a one for a plan B. I really am not one for a plan B. I'm absolutely a risk taker. And I made the reason that I ended up at Susan G. Komen is because I was getting an award for being one of the top retailers in the country by a women in retail conference. And I was supposed to literally give a speech on how, you know, empowerment because it was a

women's group and bring it back to retail, which I had nothing. So I got up on stage and I had the conversation and I was literally having a chat with myself about what would be meaningful for me and what was really empowering. And I got up and I spoke about being the most empowered when I was the least physically powerful when I had breast cancer, because when you're used to being so large and in charge, and when you're running companies and you have your family obligations and all of those things that are inherent with being a woman leader, you have to accept help. I literally couldn't make it to the bathroom without help during treatment. So for me, it was a very powerful time to let all your friends and your family step up, help you out.

And they did. And they did in spades. And I was giving that speech. And a good friend of mine who was the CEO of Chico's at the time, we'd literally had breakfast that morning. And I told her, I got to do something that's more meaningful than this. I know I can sell a million pair of jeans to Bloomingdale's, but I don't give a rat's ass if I sell one more pair. I can do it, but I really would rather do something that really is meaningful for me. And while I was on stage giving that speech, I went back and sat next to her and she said, oh my God, I just got an email from a friend of mine who is a recruiter and they're looking

for a new CEO of Susan G. Komen. And would you ever consider doing something like that? And I said, Hmm, yes, I would. And it was, you know, it wasn't it wasn't that immediate, because I was running a publicly traded company at the time. And I, the next morning, got the job wreck. I had breakfast with my husband. I said, So this happened yesterday. So I gave notice. And then I started the interview process. And it was a long interview process because they brought me down from LA to Texas three times during the summer. You would think they didn't want me to take the job by then. But I still

thought, well, okay, this is really something. There's only one reason I'd ever move away from my family and out of LA or the Southern California area. And that would be for this. And it's meaningful. My mom died of metastatic breast cancer. My brother died of prostate cancer. I had obviously breast cancer and I had a very, very, very severe kind of breast cancer. And I have two daughters. So enough said, I mean, you know, I'm in it to win it. Okay. Quick pause here to share some of the sponsors of this conversation. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to

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And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. Let's jump right back into the conversation. Oh man. I mean, it all makes sense when you're lining it up like this. And there's so much that I want to drill into. And so one of them is that last thing is that you had a serious diagnosis of breast cancer. Help me understand what that means. I know a bit, but I certainly don't know what you know.

And maybe our community can benefit from you explaining what a serious diagnosis versus a non-serious diagnosis of cancer is. It's the stage and it's the subtype, right? So for, I had, it's called triple negative and it just really means that there's, it's not this, it's not that, and it's not the other thing, three negatives. And those are all things that there are better treatments for. Oh, so if you have a, if you have a positive, like that's, that's favorable. It's like, we know how to treat that. It depends on the subtype if you have a positive, like that's favorable. It's like we know how to treat that?

It depends on the subtype that you have. Triple negative is known to be one of the more deadly types of breast cancer. So, you know, and so you're told it's bad. It's not great. And we're going to hit you with our best shot. And, you know, and chemo was tough, but you really, really, really tough, especially, you know, when you, again, used to being large and in charge, but I had, you know, the opportunity to, to lean on my friends and family and, and put one foot in front of the other. And I remember

during the course of chemo, I got a, you know, a flyer in the mail to join one of the endurance walks for, for breast cancer. And I thought, okay, I'm going to raise $5,000. And you know, I'm going to do that. I'm going to, because I couldn't even walk. That was like walking to the bathroom and back was like climbing Mount Kilimanjaro then, because you just couldn't do it. And I thought, you know, I could, I could walk 60 miles. I can do that. And so I ended up raising over half a million dollars, you know, $20 at a time over the next five years. I got my daughters involved. They did the walks with me. I had every single summer we put on an event that was like putting on a wedding where you had to ask for everything for free. It was, it literally took over for about five years and I wore my friends out, but I thought, you know what, if I live for five years,

then I will stop all of this. And then we will go on from there. And I did. And that was from 2007 to about 2000, I guess, you know, 13, 15. And I had the opportunity to do all of this work for breast cancer. And then after that, I was kind of like, okay, well, now what am I going to do? That was before you were offered the job. Oh, yeah. Way, way before.

Way before. That was like when you're in treatment, like you're in the thick of, yeah. Okay. Do you call it like, when you think of your relationship with cancer, do you think of it? Like I beat cancer, I fought cancer, I danced with cancer. I had a relationship with cancer. Like, how do you. Yeah. It's a shitty relationship, if you have to have it. But you know, I would say no. First of all, you never beat it. You know, you may have no evidence of disease, but you just don't know. Right? Because there can be a recurrence at any point in time. And that's what we're studying all the time and trying to figure out because it's not breast cancer that cures you, it kills you. It's when you have a recurrence, and it spreads and becomes metastatic. And it's metastatic cancer that kills you, which is stage four. And that's,

you know, that can be terminal, usually is terminal. Um, but you can live dependent on your doctors, your care, your type of cancer. It's very personalized. You can live for a long time. You know, I, I luckily have not metastatic, have never been metastatic. And, um, you know live for a long time. You know, I luckily have not metastatic have never been metastatic. And, you know, I'm now living a very healthy, normal life. But it doesn't mean that I don't think about it a lot, especially because, you know, I'm running the world's largest breast cancer organization. And I get to meet a lot of people that I really become close with, and then they don't make it. And, you know, and, but for the grace of God, I sit here and say, okay, well, that could be me. But instead of like really bumming out about it,

which you can, and you can go into a dark place, I try to put my needs in the background and say, okay, I'm doing this for them. I'm doing this for all of our stakeholders that need it. And it's, it's, you know, can be sort of a very heavy job many days of the week. And you try to fill your cup with all the humanity that you can help. You hinted at a couple of things, and I do want to understand the mindset, but let me just pause that for a minute. You said grace of God. So do you have a spiritual practice or framework that you're working from to help guide your thoughts and actions? Yeah, I would say I'm spiritual. I'm not religious. Okay. And it's deity based, meaning you see a God?

Yes and no. Okay. For me, it was more about just really, I live in sort of this metaphysical world that I believe that, you know, what you put out there comes back to you. And I, when I was sick, every single day that I was sick, I created a mantra that I am healthy, I am happy. And I literally, every step I would take, I would, you know, say my mantra of being healthy and happy until I was healthy and happy. Square that with me with like, I'm healthy and happy. I can get that. I, I, I could be happy in many circumstances, like, and obviously some are going to challenge my sense of joy and happiness. Okay. But like, how do you, how did you square I'm healthy with when you know that you've got cancer inside of you? How did you square that? Well, because for me, I was visualizing what

that would look like. Right. And that's, that's how sort of I deal with it. It was a visualization technique for me to be able to say, I am healthy. I'm happy and get my mind there. Because I do think that a lot of being able to get yourself through treatment is staying mentally strong while you do it. And you have to look forward to something. I remember, you know, when I was at my last cancer treatment that I had, I had plant I had my gardeners because I couldn't do it, plant like 1000 bulbs, because I was done on January 4th. I remember that. And I wanted all of this new life to come up during that time so that I could, you know, have sort of this resurgence of life and get back to my, my old world and have something beautiful come out of this. And actually something beautiful did because I now have this opportunity to help so many people, you know,

so many women, so many families that, and I never would have done this in a million years. I would not be sitting in this chair if this, if life hadn't intervened. And the only reason that I would have taken this on and learned everything that I have had to learn over the course of the last six years is, is because I care so much about about this specific disease and the tragedies that happen because of it. This is where I like when you're framing it this way, I get really excited because I've seen the same parallel from sport to business, from sport to parenting, whatever it might be, is that when you have a, I don't want to say a command because I don't want to, I don't want to assume too much yet, but when you have a real strength of mind,

might not be masterful, might not be like full command. We'll leave that for a rare space for a moment. But when you have a sense of how to work with your mind, you could go into just about any environment and orientate yourself in such a way that of course growth is going to take place for that environment, for yourself, for others. And that is one way to think about success and whether it's business success, family success, whatever. That's what I'm trying to get at when I ask the question about what was your framing and what was your mindset around the diagnosis with cancer? And so I'm trying to understand in a respectful way, like I'm a fighter, I've got a fighter mindset, or is it something more poetic, which is like,

listen, it's a phase and I'm just here in the phase and I'm a, I am, I'm great at transitions. And this is a transition I'm working through. Like, help me understand that because I think that that'll port to one of the reasons you're successful in other areas of your life as well. And I would say, if you, if you think about my background is, is I was a turnaround girl for the most part. I mean, there was an entrepreneurial side when I ran companies early on. And then one company that I took on the role as president of, I had to turn it around. And then all of a sudden you become that person that has to do this. And women are offered quite frankly, more jobs that are more, more challenging than others.

So I, you know, for me, it's understanding like really quick decisions in chaotic circumstances, figuring out what is the best, most logical move for you to make really quickly. You know, I make decisions on a dime. I bought a house without seeing it, you know, and my daughter was like, what the hell, mom? I'm like, OK, but it's a moment in time. I know exactly where it is. And, you know, like you go. And for me, it was the same sort of background. I created a business plan for my my benefit and for me to get better.

Right. And who I wanted in that part of that business plan, what doctors I would interview, all of those things. But it was because of my background of being in these sort of turnaround situations where there's fires literally burning all around you, that you all of a sudden get to the point where you go, okay, this is really serious. Because before, nobody was dying. Now, I could possibly be dying. I could possibly be leaving my kids behind. I'm going to create a plan to go forward. And, you know, I appreciate and actually kind of envy those that have really, really strong religious faith that can take them there. Mine was more spiritual faith and more business acumen almost because I literally started this and thought, OK, I'm going to create a way for me to get through this and I'm going to figure it out and I'm going to do it. That part is so apparent for even though even the groundedness in this conversation and how you're approaching, you know, these questions and the way that you're finding words to express.

There's just a there's a weight to it that I can feel, which is like a it's just a breath of fresh air. It's not, it's, you're not trying to sell something. You're not trying to like, it's just like an honest conversation about how you approached specific moments in your life. I do want to talk about the fire burning. And I read this quote and I was going to bring it up to you is the quote was, I can have fires burning all around me and I will stay perfectly calm. I'm going to use this story. It was literally, I got hired to be the CEO of American Apparel, which was its own bucket of crazy. And it was Christmas Eve day.

It had been announced that I was coming. I wasn't starting in the job until I think it was the 2nd of January or something. But I had a couple of people that I had worked with before that I invited them, come down, let's see what I've got going here because it's really kind of a crazy mess. And I would love your help. And so I was, and this is in downtown LA, we had a million and a half square feet of manufacturing space. So there's thousands and thousands and thousands of people working in this space.

And so we were in the building. I don't know what floor I was on. I literally don't even know my way around the building, but they're huge. And so I was on the top floor, I guess, at that point. I found out later. And I see the head of retail literally running towards me as fast as she can. And this is the length of a football field or two or three, right? It's huge.

And I'm thinking, that's interesting. I wonder what she's got on her mind to make her sprint across the floor. Okay. And so she comes up to me and she goes, there's a fire. And I go, where? And she said, in the elevator shaft. And I said, okay. And we go around a corner and I can see at the other end of this massive space that there's

fire, there's smoke literally pouring out of the elevator shaft. And there's thousands of people on the floor, literally sewing as fast as you can, right? And I'm thinking, okay. And I said, so what is the protocol when there's a fire? She said, I don't know. Go, okay. Well, who is here that might know it's Christmas Eve day? I don't know who's here.

I'm like, okay. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What's happening? Go back. Go into, you're in that moment. What's happening in your body? And what are the competing thoughts? Okay.

The competing thoughts is get yourself out of the building as quickly as you possibly can, right? If you'd actually like to live to see Christmas Eve that night, and your family's coming over in a little bit. And so that's one competing thought. And the other one is, oh, my God, nobody's getting up and running out of here. And there's nobody in charge. And literally, these people are sitting and they're sewing.

And I'm thinking, because they get paid by the piece, right? So they wanted to finish and there's smoke billowing in and I'm thinking, okay. So I stopped her and I said, so what floor am I on? And she said, seven. I said, how many floors are in the building? Seven. I said, okay. So I want, I'm going to take seven, six, and five. You take four, three, and two, assuming the ground floor is the ground floor. And I said, and I need you to go clear out the building. Can you do that? She said, yes.

I said, okay. So I, this man walks by me. He's this Hispanic young man. I grab his arm. I'm like, hi, you don't know me. He doesn't, nobody sees this. I mean, I don't know if they're not seeing the smoke. I'm smelling it.

I'm seeing it. It's like, you know, I'm thinking the hell. And so I grab his arm and I said, what's your name? And he tells me his name. And I said, do you, do you speak English? And he said, yes. And I said, oh, well, I'm Paula. You haven't met me yet, but I'm going to be starting on, you know, January 5th or whatever it is as the new boss, as the new CEO. And I said, and I need your help. And I have a death grip on this guy's arm. And he's like, okay, you know, he's looking at me like I'm kind of have three heads. And I said, is fuego fire in Spanish? And I think it is, you know, he says, yes. And I said, okay, I'm going to start yelling fuego as loud as I can. Oh my God. Okay. Wait, wait, wait. This is so good. So there's one

other thing to just let me, when I say all around me, I am not kidding. Okay. So you've got a death grip, but you've got, are you speaking clearly and calm? Extremely calm. Okay. So, so it's a little bit of like that duck analogy underneath. Like there's a lot of work that's taking place because you've got the death grip, the heart is accelerated, but, but you're presenting like we've got it all together. Yeah. I mean, I didn't, in my mind's eye, I had no choice. I had to get all of these folks out of the building, you know, because there's no way I was going to just go.

Obviously I would never do that in a million years when I, you know, I just wanted to make sure that that these people that there's literally thousands. So it's not like, you know, I'm like, do you know where the stairs are to this guy says yes. So I go through yelling fuego as loud as I possibly can with my death grip on my new friend. And he is explaining I'm, you know, he's pointing to the stairs, don't take the, I said, I need you to say, don't take the elevator in Spanish. And there's 22 languages spoken there. So, you know, we, we figured with English and Spanish, I did, um, that we would get to most people. And then, and then people were coming up to me and saying, well, do I take my purse?

Are we done for the day? Will I get paid today? You know, I'm like, I, I'm. But yes, take all your stuff and just go. Right. And you have to go quickly. So that's that's why it should have been a precursor to what actually went on in American Apparel on the daily there. Right.

But, you know, that was just a moment in time. I've I've heard some stories. Yeah. OK, so did you did you wrestle at all with like, am I overreacting? Am I going to be that person that overreacts? Or were all signals like, out of the building, right? And in order to get me out of the building, I had to get everybody else out of the building. And I could hear the fire trucks going, you know, coming. I could hear that, which was good. I got down to the sixth floor with, you know, but there's thousands of people walking downstairs that are this narrow. And I'm thinking, oh my God, I hope it doesn't really get bad. And it turned out that it was

just a fire in the elevator shaft itself and it never moved further, thank God. But we got everybody out of the building and then I went home. Okay. No one does it alone. And I want to share a couple of sponsors that are making this show possible. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentus. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday, what you put in your body matters. And that's why I trust Momentous. From the moment I sat down with

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Mastery listeners 20% off. Just head to FelixGray.com and use the code FINDINGMASTERY20 at checkout. Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y.com and use the code FindingMastery20 at FelixGray.com for 20% off. And with that, let's jump right back into this conversation. Oh my goodness. Okay. So did you say logic takes over? Is that what you said? Yeah.

Logic takes over. But emotion can take over. So how, for some, for most, unless they've conditioned their mind, unless there's some sort of psychological skill or I'll pause there, unless there's some sort of psychological skill to help them manage highly charged emotional moments. So help me understand how you were able to default to logic and not be overrun by emotion. You know, Mike, I think when you are having had a breast cancer diagnosis or a cancer diagnosis, when you're told it's bad and you think of that you could lose your entire world and say goodbye to your children and your husband and your family and all of that. Once you go through something like that, you kind of are desensitized

to a lot of other things, right? So that's the worst thing that could possibly happen, other than maybe losing a child. But in my mind's eye, it was like, okay, we just have to handle this and we go. And I've always been really calm. I mean, you know, I would think that I've had thousands of employees. And I remember saying to somebody, I think that's great. I'm super excited about that. I have to tell you. And they said, yeah, you would have to tell me because we wouldn't know if you unless you told me. So I must not exude a lot of emotion. I got held up a gunpoint one time and there was a gun to my head and I was super calm. So, you know, I thought, okay. Okay. So I think you're like, you're, you're backing me into

like, I'm nodding my head because I think one of the most powerful statements that we can make to ourselves is I can do hard things. There's, there's this knowing that I can do hard things. There's this knowing that I can do hard things because I've been through hard things. And I don't get the fake it till you make it. I don't get that. I've come to learn that the athletes and the performers and the people in this world that are exceptional during highly emotionally challenging times is that there's a sense that they've earned that, no, I do hard things like, okay, I'm in it. I'm okay. Let's figure it out. Yeah. And you're saying, I mean, no one wishes this, but you're saying like, yeah, you know,

work with cancer gave me that right to say it. And you just have to remain calm because what else, what other options do you have? And, you know, by the way, the brain is going really quickly. Okay. But what other options do you have? And, you know, by the way, the brain is going really quickly. Okay. But what other options do you have? Most people don't operate that way because the emotions run the show. And so that's what I want to try to figure out. It's like, how did you do that?

And I don't, I don't have a sense that you've done formal psychological skills training like an athlete or an artist like no right and so i'm trying to square up like okay there's psychological skills training that allows you to become there's purpose and we've got a big purpose it can help you deal with many things in life and then there's this other which is like a philosophical framework or spiritual framework. Like, and there's lots of ways we could pull on that. Lots of sayings or phraseology that, that point to something else. Like God has a plan is one philosophy versus I'm being tested. It's another flood. There's lots of philosophies about life after death and life now squared with purpose square with psychological skills training.

And that's what I'm trying to rotate around your power. I think this is the school of hard knocks, right? And you go through that. Totally. And you learn. I mean, there's not been a lot of formal training. And I have been an executive for a long time and I've been to the Center for Creative Leadership.

And I've done some of these things during the course of time, but I think it's more inherent. It's kind of like being a salesperson. You either have it or you don't, and you're never going to get it if you don't have it. So the word mindset is cool, but you need an adjective or we need an adjective in front of it. So you're using your mind in a certain way. What is the adjective that you would use before that mindset? There's a determination for sure. Like a determined mindset? Yeah. Or a fearless mindset. I had to do it. I just had to do it. I felt like that was, you know, the reward that I would get would be, and because it also meant that every step you took, you were going towards

being better health. You don't have a freaking choice. You know, you have to put one foot in front of the other when you're sick like that, unless you want to roll up in a ball and die and leave your family behind. And, you know, there's so much mother bear in that, where I wasn't going to do that if there was anything in my power to make it happen. I was not going to leave anyone behind. You seem like the size of you, and I'm speaking from a psychological, I hope so. But the size of you is like, it's really big. And it feels, I wonder if people say this to you, like,

you've got this determined, I don't, you haven't used the word fighter. And I don't know if that's by design or not. But like, you've got this determined, powerful way about you. And I wonder if people if it if that scares people, or it feels safe in this conversation, you feel warm. And I would love to be in the foxhole with you. I'm like, oh, yeah, OK, we got somebody that sees her people and has a path forward and is like going to, I think, bring out the best of her team of the foxhole. But I'm making I'm making some leaps here. And so I do want to get to your leadership style, but I'm trying to start with mindset. So how do people respond to you in that with these types of capabilities that you have? Well, I think that different businesses that I've run have required different leadership styles. Like, you know, at Komen, it's a very soft culture and it's led with kindness. And I lead with kindness because, you know, everything we do is about being kind and about being caring and about helping other people.

And I can even say that with Komen, you know, we entered into COVID. Right. And, you know, a lot of our fundraising was bringing 10,000 of your closest friends together in one of our races and walks. And we couldn't do that anymore. So we had to make all kinds of slashes and chaotic moments, right? Because I didn't know if we were going to raise another dollar at that point. So we closed 63 offices. And this is all in the first four weeks of COVID. We closed 63 offices. We went completely virtual. We had an affiliate structure that we went into a single incorporation because the affiliates, each one of them, the majority of their fundraising was done through races and walks.

And if this wasn't over, COVID wasn't over within a three to six month period, we would have lost all our community work. And it was, you know, it's a pretty massive restructuring and undertaking. And I got my board to go along with it. And we went and literally it was, I think we closed April or March 22nd. And we made these decisions by April 10th and, you know, way out ahead. Oh, that's fast. But super fast. And we did it, you know, very purposefully because at that point I had already done all of my, you know, my chaotic turnaround stuff, right? So for me, you have when you

are pressed with something that is really as dire as COVID was for many, many, many companies, and certainly almost all charities, you had to make decisions and you had to make them super fast and go. And I, you know, talked my board into it and off we went. Let's drill into that turnaround stuff. I mean, this was not easy stuff that you were doing again at American Apparel. Like when you came in, you had to do a massive furlough. And if I read it correctly, you and your family needed bodyguards. Like this was, this was pretty intense.

Yeah. Okay. this was pretty intense yeah okay so when you make hard fast difficult challenging decisions that involve people's livelihood yeah um their well-being in some respects you know how do you how do you go about that take take i'm taking the kindness as part of the value that you're working from. Okay. Is it measure twice, cut once? Is it be intuitive and go? It's not measured twice, cut once.

You don't have time. If you're 70% of the way there, go. Is that on two-way decisions and one-way doors and two-way doors? Is it for both of those? Meaning? So a two-way decision is like, we're going to put our content on a server and it's an expensive move, but we could change servers later. A one-way decision is like, once I make the decision, there's no way back. Like we've burnt the bridge. Yeah. I think most of them have been one-way decisions.

Yeah. So you get 70% of the way there and you're like, we got to go. It depends on how bad or rough the turnaround is. And I can go back to Komen on that. We had no choice. The opposite was that we would watch ourselves go out of business as the months ticked by. And that wasn't an option because of all, there was no one there to pick up the pieces and do what we do as an organization and for all the good that we do for women's health. So that wasn't an option. Um, at, at when, when I was at Morneco Swimwear Group, we did a big giant restructuring. That was, that was more at the cut or the measure twice cut once,

you know, where you had everything and you had time. You had time to plan it out. But if you don't have time, you have to just make decisions and you have to be mostly right. And most of the time you're right, but not all turnarounds work. Can you sum up the problem and the solution at American Apparel and maybe more specifically what you're walking into? Yes. I would say American Apparel had lost $400 million in the previous years,

three, four years before I got there. There was almost no cash in the business. And I literally did a first 13 week cashflow and we were going to hit the skids in like, I don't know, 10 weeks. And it was a publicly traded company. So I knew almost nothing about what the opportunities were in there because I'd only been there for, I don't know, two weeks, three weeks, but we had to, we had no choice, but to make decisions to furlough people until we could figure out what is the right amount of people that we actually need for the amount of stores that we had. And so what was performing, what wasn't performing, a million different pieces there. And nobody wants to stop people from having a living wage. That was never, ever the goal. The goal was to save the company so that the majority of people who could be

employed there would still have a living wage and to save the business. Okay. Totally get it. And, and can you put that same framing on, um, the Susan G Komen breast cancer foundation, which is like, what, what was, what's the problem? What do you see as the solution? The problem there was the, the structure of the organization. Because if you think an affiliate structure has, there were 1100 individual board members that were out there at the 63 affiliates, and each one had a government. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Say that again. 63 little baby businesses. And you had, you know, like there might have been, well, there was the, let's say the affiliate of Susan G. Komen, Orange County, Susan G. Komen, New Jersey, Susan G. Komen, Ohio, Susan G. Komen, blah, blah,

blah. So all across the country, we had 63 businesses. Each one of those, it was kind of like a license or a franchise agreement. Each one of those would give a certain percentage of their revenue to the mothership, which would use that money for research. And a lot of things were done in the field, right? So in order to save that, you remember the day. I mean, I know you do just like I do where COVID started and you were like, oh, well, I have a vacation planned for middle of July. I probably have to move it to August now because it'll be done by then. Right. And of course, I, as a CEO of a company, you have to look at, well, what if, what if it's not, what happens if it's three months? What happens if it's six months? What happens if it's nine months and where will we be at the end of the time here? So I, I,

in my mind's eye, you take the worst possible scenario, let's say it goes on for another year. And that's how I based every bit of my decision-making. If this is going to go on for another year, which it went on for way longer than that, right? How do I make sure that we are here on the other side of this? So we cut down our expenses dramatically. We changed the way that we did races and walks to virtual. We got out of all of our leases. We changed our whole structure to a single incorporation instead of an affiliate model, which was always a better choice. I was working towards that anyway, but that would have taken years for us to do, because then you just have to get buy-in affiliate by affiliate by affiliate. And this way was like everybody's hair was on fire. So I don't think many people out there would care what are the

inner workings of how Susan G Komen is structured. Don donors just want to know that it's structured in the most efficient, effective way to give back as much as you can to the community that you support. So I used all of those things and have, you know, a great team that helped me with it and a fabulous board. Okay. Do you push back from the desk and think deeply with the information that you've gathered, which is usually imperfect information, and then bring people along? Or do you gather information, already have a sense of where you want to go to build a consensus so that it's the team moving forward? What is that style? It's the latter. So you get a sense and a feel, and then you start watering seeds, not manipulating, but bringing know, we we've learned, we, we trust each other. We have a great team. And I, I push a lot of times on things that I just want to hear them argue back with

me. Oh, how do you do that? Yeah. How do you do that? I, you know, it's, it's essentially saying, this is what I think, but you know, you, you can convince me otherwise, but you'd have to work pretty hard at it. So go. And if people, and believe me, and you know, it's also was a Southern organization. It started in, in, in Dallas, right. And it'd been there for many, many years. And, and I remember going through some of my first and early meetings with the board and meetings with my staff and even their body language was, it was so interesting to

see. It's like, you really aren't buying into what they're saying, right. You know, we're in a meeting and if I'm saying something and I can see somebody who's not agreeing with me, instead of calling them out and saying, okay, you clearly don't feel that way. So tell me what you're thinking. And it becomes then once it's, it's a safe place to do that, where people can exchange their ideas and feel like they're, they're valued because they are valued. Then you get a lot of flow of information. And I think that's the best way to do it. So it really is. And I wasn't really sure. I mean, I had never been through a COVID before. I wasn't a hundred percent positive that this would work. I'm

going to use an analogy. I was, while I was at American Apparel, I have great, I'm great cocktail parties, just so you know. When I was at American Apparel, I'm great at cocktail parties, just so you know. When I was at American Apparel, I went to the Middle East and people were to, so that we could talk about opening stores in Dubai. And so I was in Dubai and Kuwait and people would say, what are you going to the Middle East for? And I said, I just really want to feel safe for a week or so. So I'm going to go to the Middle East where I feel really safe as opposed to having my bodyguards and all of that in American apparel. But I get home and my phone is absolutely blowing up. And you know, from Dubai to California, it's a bazillion hours on the plane. You watch 10,000 movies. And this gentleman, his name was

Blue, and he ran our security. I can see I have like 20 messages from Blue before I'm even landing. Right. I'm thinking, okay, this is not good because it's always going to be something really bad if he's that determined to find me. So I get off the plane and Blue, I call Blue and I go, what's up? And he says, there's a bomb threat. I go, where? And he said, and he names the buildings that these are the offices. Right.

But the offices were only 300 people that work for the corporate office and the rest were the humanity that built and created all of our clothes and sewed them, et cetera. So I'm like, okay. And I had just watched this movie on the plane about Max, the bomb sniffing dog. And so I go- So now you're an expert. Absolutely. I said, so let's call a canine unit. And he goes, okay. And I'm thinking to myself, what the hell do I know about this? I literally know nothing other than just watching this movie.

And it was a good movie. So I took that. It's like a junior in college that's studying psychology. It's like the most dangerous person because they know a little bit now. Yeah, but not enough. But we had and then we had Alan, the bomb sniffing dog that literally came to meet me at my car every morning. He would walk in. He was a really cute shepherd. He'd walk in.

He'd take me to my office, sniff around and, you know, the executive offices. Then he would go through the building and he was on staff for like six weeks. Our bomb sniffing dog. You know, you make decisions. And a lot of times it's the command that you make them with. And if you feel like it's not going to be really wrong, I mean, there's wouldn't be really anything wrong with having a bomb sniffing dog. You know, I don't really know what else to do.

And maybe that was the wrong decision, but you know, you make it and you go. And now one final word from our sponsors. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised me the most is how much it actually helps regulate temperature.

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matters. If you're looking for high quality personal care products that elevate your routine without complicating it, I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash finding mastery and use the code finding mastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash finding mastery. And now back to the conversation. Okay. What stands behind the pink ribbon? And I was in the NFL for about a decade and it was awesome. You know, like during the month, during this month of October where people would rally behind it. And there was, there's amazing when you're in a stadium of

70,000 people and there's a question, stand up if you've been affected by cancer. And everyone in the stadium stands up. Well, they do. There's two questions. Stand up if you personally have been affected by cancer. Bang. Okay. There's a good, healthy amount. It's like, wow.

Everyone applauds. And then the follow-on question is stand up if you know somebody in your intimate life that has been affected by cancer. And then it's literally the entire stadium. So what's behind the pink ribbon? You know, and Susan G. Komen has done a great job here, but I want to understand it. We created the pink ribbon and it was literally done. Nancy Brinker, who is the founder of Susan G. Komen, her sister was Susan. And so her sister died at 37. She made the promise to her sister that she was going to spend her life to help and figure this out.

And this has been a movement. You know, all of the peer-to-peer fundraising and the races and the walks were all started by Nancy. So she's a force to be reckoned with. And, you know, it's actually quite pissed that we haven't cured it by now. But, you know, that's what it really in October started so that, you know, National Breast Cancer Awareness Month, so that people would remember, A, to get their mammograms, right? And then, you know, it became much more of a movement. And now if you see, we have, you know, hundreds of thousands of people that participate in our race walks, our races and our walks around the world. The amount of humanity that cares.

We have 3 million people that come to our website and they're not coming to go shopping. They're coming because they are either diagnosed themselves or they have a family member or they're the worried, well, they felt a lump or whatever it is. And, you know, we're a really good trusted source. If you ever have a breast cancer diagnosis, hit us up because you don't go to Dr. Google because then, you know, everybody's going to die. Right. And if you, if you literally want to know very fact-based material, then you want to, you want to go to Komen. And, and I have to say, I think we're one of the most innovative companies that are out there. And one of the, we kind of work on three stools.

We have research and cutting edge research and everything that we do. We've literally spent more money, over a billion dollars on research in the 40 years we've been around. And we spent, we're only second to the U.S. government. And then there's all the community work that we do. We have a helpline. So if anyone needs to call our helpline to talk to anyone, we have about 60,000 people that call our helpline every year. We give financial aid to those people that qualify for it to stay in treatment. Those are grants, micro grants that help people, whether they need to use it for food or for part of their

rent or to get to treatment from transportation or whatever it is. And then we have public policy and advocacy where we literally sign into law many, many bills that are common led for women's health. And we have about 120,000 advocates that work with us. And there's a lot of power in women in pink with pitchforks and we get stuff done. So, and, and, you know, and we're using technology and our, the work that we're doing, we have, we've just launched a platform, which is the largest patient led registry, which will be for breast cancer information. It's called share4Cures. So we're asking women, we're going directly to patients who have had women who have had breast cancer and men

who have had breast cancer to give us their information. And we are really good stewards of their information and very compliant and very cyber secure. And the goal for that is if we get 10,000 people to sign up, we will have the largest registry that is outside of a medical institution. And we might be able to democratize the ability to do research because we have the top docs and scientists in the world that work with us. And our goal is to figure out why metastasis happens and, um, figure out how to stop that. So, you know, I was patient one that signed up to give my spit and, you know, it's all D, um, identified. So, you know, I was patient one that signed up to give my spit and, you know, it's all de-identified. So, you know, it's really just for us to be able to figure out

what are the commonalities and what makes people sick and how do, what happens and why do people metastasize? And, you know, if we can, if we can figure that out and people can help us with that, then that's, that's super important for us to really make a difference and perhaps find a cure. Our producer, Alex Wood, who you know, he was a groomsman in your daughter's wedding. And he has said repeatedly that your website is remarkable and it's a really good source of information. And I asked permission to share this about him as well, is that his mom was diagnosed, went through chemo, was in remission, and then the whole family got tested and he has BRCA2. So all of the information that you have

sourced in a credible way has been meaningful here to the Finding Mastery team, to Alex's life, as well as his family. And so I just want to just give a nod to how important that resource is. Yeah. Yeah. Because if you do have the gene mutation, which only about 15% to 20% of breast cancers are directly connected to that, right? There's probably some gene. I mean, my mom had it, I had it. There's probably some gene we have, we just don't know what it is yet. So we continuously work on that from a, and we always have about 250 grants going, research grants going at any moment in time. And, you know, it's for families right because now alex or he has to know that if he has children they have a 50 chance of having that genetic mutation um and so you know and and if you

do and you're female then you know you you have to make a decision because the chances are up to 85 percent that you will have breast or ovarian cancer. So you want to, if you have the BRCA2, if you carry the BRCA gene mutation, right? So it's significant, right? And even for men, they have additional testing that can be done. But you know, this is, it's good knowledge. People are so afraid of learning this, but it's, it's absolutely knowledge for you to take with you. And if you have someone in your family that has breast cancer, they should have genetic testing. So, and they probably have,

but if they haven't and you are part of their direct bloodline, you need to know, like I had, I literally had, I have genetic testing fairly regularly, like every five, seven years when new things come out they they always ask my geneticist and says you should get tested again and you know and men get breast cancer too right so there's i didn't know that until alex i had no idea yep about four percent of the men are of the people that get of the 160 000 women annually annually or people annually that get breast cancer in the U.S. only. About 4% are men.

So, you know, if there's ever a, if you have it in your family, you should know your family health history. And we have a tool on our website that gives you your family health history. You can fill it out and it'll tell you what you should do. So that's a really good thing and a really good thing to look into. Is the mission to be a resource for people for information and testing and research? Is that the mission of the foundation? The mission is to save lives, right?

So in general, it's to make sure that we have enough research that will find cures. It's to help people wherever they are. And it's also everything that we have has health equity in it. If you are African-American, you are 40% more likely to die of breast cancer than if I get it. Whoa, 45. 40% more likely. It's a huge number. Yeah.

And where you live actually dictates part of whether you will survive more or not. So there's cities like Memphis where it's in the 70s percent. There's a lot. Long Beach is another one. I mean, you know, like D.C., Dallas, Fort Worth. These are not little cities. And it has to do with later, it has to do with a whole bunch of things. Black women have triple negative, which is the same type of cancer I have, that's more prevalent in the Black community. It's also understanding that your family health history, if you are of Ashkenazi Jewish descent, your chances of having the BRCA gene mutation are much higher. You're one in 40 if you're Ashkenazi Jew, male or female, and you are one in 350-ish if it's general population. So, you know, get the knowledge.

And a lot of people are really afraid to go to the doctor to get this knowledge because, you know, they don't want to know. But if you don't want to get cancer, then no. And there are ways to help yourself. You know, a lot of times for women that have had the BRCA gene or carry the BRCA gene mutation, they will have a prophylactic mastectomy. They will have a new phylectomy where you get your ovaries out. You know, that happens.

But you got to let your doctor in on the knowledge. You got to know what's going on with you because you have to be your own health advocate. So the test, you go to your GP and you say, I'd like to run a test for the BRCA1 or 2. Well, you know, normally they will ask you about your family history. Um, and you know, if, if there's any, in anything in your family history that, um, dictates because there's, there's still a cost to these, but if you have aunts or uncles or brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, any kind of relative bloodline relative to you that has had it, I suggest you get it done. And it's, it used to be super

expensive, you know, right. Because everything is, it's changed the way and how many people, you know, 23andMe has it on there, but it only sequences for if you were an Ashkenazi Jew to be correct. So you have to, it's better to do it through your, your doctor. But if you do have a family history of breast cancer, go ask. Ask the question. And it's a saliva swab, if I understand it correctly. Yeah, it's a blood test or a saliva swab. Yeah, you can do both. Okay. Finding Mastery is brought to you by iRestore. When it comes to my health, I try to approach things with a proactive mindset. It's not about avoiding poor health.

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Like, are we going, do you imagine in our lifetime that we're going to solve breast cancer? Let's just stay there. I'm older than you, so I'm going to go your lifetime. But I do think, you know, it's really fascinating because when I went and met with pharma, right, and when I first got here, I wanted to understand. And I met with some of the big pharma people that have breast cancer drugs. And I asked the question, like, how many drugs have you had in the last five to 10 years? How many do you have coming up?

And the velocity is much bigger now than it was before. It still takes millions and millions, if not billions of dollars to get a drug to market. And so, you know, there's a challenge with costs and all of that. But that aside, you got to have these drugs in order to make a difference. So I do think that with the velocity of the way that personalized medicine is happening, and we have a scientific advisory group that is made up of the top rock star docs in the world of breast cancer. And we decide internally, I have more doctors working for me than you'd ever think from a girl that graduated with a degree in Chico State University with costume design and theater. I've got more PhDs

that work for me than you can imagine. They're brilliant folks and they know what they're doing. So we lean on our scientific advisory board to help guide us because they know what's the newest and greatest and latest of things that are happening in breast cancer. If you could point to a couple behavioral strategies that you found to be meaningful, whether there's research on it or not at this point, things that you do or you're feeling and sensing that people in the community are doing to be proactive, maybe to be healthy in one, one respect, but also like if there was some kind of fringe data or very clear data, people that wear their cell phones in their pocket, you know, like that's a problem for certain types of cancer, you know, like, are there some things

behaviorally that you can point us to, to say, okay, look, let's make it really simple. Okay. Things we don't eat that. Yeah. Like what are some stuff that you can, you can point us to? Okay. High alcohol consumption, bad. What does high mean to you? You know, I asked, like, I love my wine and I asked my scientific advisory board. They said, keep it at two a week, two glasses of wine a week. Okay. I thought you said an hour, but you said a week. No, I said a week, not an hour. Okay. Yeah. That, that, that research is pretty clear. Yeah. So there's, there's alcohol, there's, there's obesity, right. And, you know, just think about it. If you, every,

everything you do, if you exercise, your life is better, your body is healthier. It can fight off things more readily. You know, when I had, when I was diagnosed with breast cancer, I was, you know, I felt like I'm really not a candidate, although my mom had it because, you know, I ate organically and I exercised regularly and I was an athlete and, you know, all of those things. But, you know, if not you, who, right? So it's not going to stop you if you're going to get it, but you can possibly stave it off or be much healthier through your treatment. And sugar is another thing that, you know, a lot intake of sugar. And that also has to do with the alcohol.

It's your body can't metabolize it. And then also, you know, the exercise portion of it that we know and obesity being severely overweight. When you say sugar, are you thinking you can ask me how many chocolate kisses I can eat a week or no, but like refined sugar versus, um, yeah, I, if you're eating date, sugar is going to be better for you than refined sugar, but you know, it's sugar and it's how your body metabolizes sugar. Right. So, but you gotta, I I'm sort of the moderation kind of person because I do like a glass of wine and I do like a cookie now and then, but you know, you try to, you try to control that and you try to make sure that you're keeping your body in peak forms, just like any other kind of,

of, of training, right? If you want to stay healthy, you stay healthy for as long as you can by moving. It really is what our grandparents or great grandparents have said to us for a while. There's a reason we survived to get here. And there's some great wisdom that has been passed down. And so great framing. I love that. Thank you. And I just want to say again, I want to say thank you. I was really excited to have this conversation with you. And I think that like, I try not to get ahead of my skis imagining what the conversation is going to be like, and I want to be really open to the feel of people. But I had this sense that you were going to have this type of grounded approach to life. And I don't want to prop you up in any way that's false,

but it just feels that way on this part of the conversation. It's refreshing. Well, thank you. And I appreciate the time and being considered for your podcast because you have the best of the best and I'm really honored to be here. My sense from this conversation is that you are open to ideas. You explore ideas. You're open to experiences. You're not rigid when it says, oh no, we can't do that. There's an openness, an exploratory nature. You have a high conscientiousness. It feels to me that you're an extroverted thinker. You make quick decisions. You gather information and you use this nice blend between tactile concrete, but also this intuitive way of gathering information, which is super interesting

to me. It also seems that you know that you're competent, like you don't suffer in that way. And you present yourself with high autonomy, like, yeah, I'm actually in control of myself. I have agency about how I move through the world and my relationships are intact for the most part. Like, you know you have relationships that matter and are meaningful to you. And I think you're able to switch gears between like a broad attentional profile

and then narrow down and go broad again and get the big picture and then narrow down and go broad again and get the big picture and then narrow down. And you're not encumbered and you're not slowed down or bogged down by staying in one too long. So there's a nice performance attentional profile that you've got there. And I think you've got this exacting honesty,

which there's some kindness in there, of course, but there's exacting honesty that allows you to be kind and not critical, but exacting with the information that you give people, which I think that there's a little bit of a, let's call it a dull stick that you're able to put via your presence and your questions and your thinking, a dull stick in people's back, like, okay, I got to be great here because like she's working on that level. So I want to be on that level as well. I don't have a sense if you're critical to yourself.

Probably not. Yeah. Because, you know, there's also the extending kindness to yourself. I remember when I was going into Susan G. Komen for the first day and one of my best friends said to me, what the hell do you think you're doing? How do you think that this transfers from anything else that you've done into this? And what are you going to do? Like day one, what are you going to do when you walk in there? And I go, I guess I'm going to listen.

And, you know, and I know that's very cliche and all of that. But think about it. You know, I'm a fashion girl from over here and I worked in private equity and I, you know, I've done all these really interesting things, but I ran American apparel. I ran, you know, I, I did a lot of really interesting things in my career. And then all of a sudden I'm now surrounded by doctors and by people that are, you know, so much smarter than me in so many areas and areas that I have no idea about. We have our head of our scientific advisory board and I had the opportunity, they said, you know, Dr. Sledge, who ran oncology for Stanford, right? He was the head of our advisory board. He would love to have dinner with you. I said, great. You know, and I'm thinking to myself,

what the hell are we going to talk about? You know, he's probably thinking this is the worst choice they could have ever made for Susan G. Komen because, you know, this is not a doctor. It's not, you know, I don't know what he's thinking, but in my mind, I'm swirling this around thinking, okay. So we go and we have dinner and he says to me, listen, you know, Paula, we have really nice time. We're getting along great. And he says to me, you know, it might be nice if I could like teach you some to give you

a little tutelage on, you know, a lot of the medical side of the breast cancer and all that. And I'm thinking to myself, and I can't control it. So I just speak. And I said, you know, George, let me tell you how that would go. It would be like me learning Chinese and dealing with the highest level of the Chinese government. Okay. I'm going to step in it all day long. No one is going to know, you know, no one is going to take me seriously. So if I take myself that seriously and really try to be that person that knows all about medicine after 15 minutes of being at Coleman, it's, I'm going to lose all respect that I would have otherwise garnered. So why don't I do what I do, which is bring the best and smartest people around me, get us all motivated, get us in the same boat, the same river, and then rowing in the same direction. And you help me with that others. And I would come with me to these meetings that I'm not going

to know crap about because you have a pedigree. So, you know, and, and he did, and we had this fabulous relationship, still have this fabulous relationship of, of, you know, him helping Coleman in ways that I could not, and I would never be able to, and I'm six years in, and I still can't tell you the glories of the cell cycle, you know, and, and nor do I need to, and I would never be able to. And I'm six years in, and I still can't tell you the glories of the sell cycle, you know, and nor do I need to, because I need to be the leader of the band. And I need to be able to say, to get everyone moving in the right direction for what the common goal is. And once we've established that, everybody understands what's expected of them, what

the dates and gates and milestones are. I'm fabulous at putting together strategic plans, you know, because, and I don't create them myself. We create them together and then everybody has buy-in and we go. So, you know, and that wasn't, I've learned that a little, probably the second half of my career rather than the first where I fumbled through it, right? But this, then you, then you learn. And those are things that will help your organization regardless of what it is. Have a plan, execute to the plan. That sounds like a masterclass in the first 100 days of leadership. Okay. Again, I only went to the school of hard knocks. I didn't go to grad school.

Your response is great. You're like, okay. I tried to offer my services at some of the colleges around LA to teach a class on putting together a business plan, right? Because I felt like my, both my girls went to USC. It's a fabulous school, but they didn't teach anything like that unless you were in the business program and yours, it should be part of your general ed understanding business. And so I went out and I offered my services, you know, they pay you $1.12. So it's not like I thought it was very philanthropic of me to do that. And I got turned

down everywhere, because I don't have a master's. There was I couldn't teach the worst junior college in Southern California, because I don't have my master's. And I thought, okay, well, you know, again, no formal training, right? I never took a finance class, but I've run businesses that were, you know, almost a billion dollars. You've got stadiums of people listening and hanging on every word right now, which is like it's so good. Like I have just loved this conversation, how you approach it. And it feels like, you know, who you are.

Your first principles are clear and you're able to contribute all of yourself into the environments that you go. And that's a pebble in the pond and it's a pretty damn big pebble. Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's very cool. So listen, thank you. And I'm, I'm rooting for all of your efforts and thank you for showing up for so many people in my life and, and intimately here at the Finding Mastery team for being great. Listen, if anyone wants to help Coleman, I would be remiss if I didn't say just go on Coleman.org. And, you know, there's nothing that's going to cure cancer other than cash and cash pays for research. So, you know, here we are.

Any advice for October right now? Any advice that you've got for folks? If you're a woman, put your big girl panties on and make sure you've had your mammogram. Because that's the most important thing is if there is a finding that you find it earlier, so you can live through it. And, you know, other than that, find something that you're passionate about people, you know, I've been running a philanthropy now for six years and find someplace place to do good and then do it. If there's something that is meaningful for you, do it, give your time, give your energy, give your, give your, you know, your money, whatever it is that you can do to make the world a better place, because it

is so gratifying to do that. The very first day I walked into Komen and I hadn't even seen the offices and that's a big pink wall right outside my office. It said, the work that you do here saves lives. And it was incredibly meaningful for me. It almost brought a tear to my eye. And I thought, wow, that's a big onus of responsibility. So, you know, I'm in it to win it. And I can't retire until we cure breast cancer.

So people out there, help me retire. I want to play more tennis. Paula, what a gift. Thank you so much. And this has just been a real treat. So thank you again for coming on. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us.

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