Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Ask Me Anything: Dr. Michael Gervais on Self-Worth, Resilience, and Finding Light in the Cracks

Episode Date: May 14, 2025

What does it take to thrive in today’s high-pressure, constantly shifting world?We’re back with a special Finding Mastery Ask Me Anything with Dr. Michael Gervais! In this AMA, we're thrilled to welcome our good friend, Yogi Roth, for a powerful conversation on navigating life's most challenging moments. Drawing from our extensive experience with elite performers, educators, and healthcare professionals, we dig deep into questions that resonate with all of us trying to thrive in today's complex world.Through thoughtful questions from our community, we explore the delicate balance between performance and self-worth, recovery strategies for busy professionals, and how to maintain purpose when facing uncertainty.We dig into some fascinating topics, including:The "tail wagging the dog" trap - Never let your performance dictate your self-worthRecovery isn't optional - Elite performers prioritize recovery with trainingMastering the spaces between moments - Find presence in small pauses throughout your dayWhy every world-class performer shares fundamental optimism - And how you can develop itWhen to double down on purpose - Using your values as an anchor during times of uncertaintyThe power of micro choices - Making thousands of small right decisions each day creates transformationJoin us for this illuminating conversation that reminds us how our daily choices shape not just our performance, but who we become. We hope these insights can offer practical wisdom that applies whether you're leading a team, supporting others, or simply trying to find your footing in challenging circumstances._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.Support our sponsors!Get 50% off Magic Mind here: https://magicmind.com/findingmasteryEDU with code FINDINGMASTERY50See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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What questions are tugging at you right now? And how might exploring the answers to those questions help you unlock your potential? Welcome back or welcome to a special episode of the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Michael Gervais. I trade and training a high-performance psychologist. And this week, we're turning the microphone around. Instead of diving into mastery through the minds of our remark, guess we're going straight to you for another Ask Me Anything episode. What can we do as a healthcare worker?

What frameworks or practices would you recommend? How do you maintain a sense of self-worth? You've submitted deep and thoughtful, vulnerable questions about life, performance, relationships, and navigating the complexities of the human experience. And in this episode, with the help of author, documentarian, podcaster, football analyst, and all-around renaissance man and friend of Finding Mastery, Yogi Roth, all offer insights and perspectives designed to help us think a little differently. What framing would you use to help instill a healthy sense of motivation?

Nobody does it alone. So we need each other. Let's be great. We don't talk about working harder. We talk about recovering more intelligent. And what I'm hearing you say is remind them of the things that we've been talking about and training upon. Make sure you're infusing it with what could be great if we do the work together. It's a good point. It's crazy. So with that, let's jump right into your questions, my reflections, and an exploration of what matters most right here on Finding Mastery. Yogi, this has been, I can't wait to do this with you. Like the AMA series are really fun for me. And it's a little different doing it with you

because of our history of our friendship and who you represent in my life and as well as what you understand when it comes to helping people be better. And so you're deeply steeped in the football world and it's a great working laboratory to understand humans. So I'm so stoked to do this with you. Yeah, me too, man. 2009, we met at LA Live in downtown LA. It was a long time ago. I remember having dinner with you that evening and that birth,

an incredible friendship, man. And was that the dinner that you introduced me to coach Carol as well? Yeah. Okay. So that's where, but we knew each other before that. That wasn't our first dinner. We knew each other before that. Okay. I don't remember that.

Yeah. To me, I got 2009 LA live exhausted Yogi sitting next to Mike and you being like, you're spent, right? And I was like, no, I'm fine. I'm good. You don't judge me. Yeah, that's right. You came out with some fire. Yeah. But I do remember AMAs because all football season, when I'm on the road, I'm in Nebraska, I'm in Ohio, I'm in Pennsylvania, I'm on the other side of the country as we sit in LA, I would listen to your AMAs. And it was

really cool because I would always compartmentalize it either in the world of performance and parenting. One of the two buckets. So I'm so curious to hear what your community has to say with these set of questions we have today and where they are when they hear it. Because I bet if I listened to one of those now, maybe I'd be in a different place. I'd put it in a different bucket and how it would hit on me. Cool. Well, hold those two buckets because I think it's a huge part of our community. And so sometimes I think more like coaches and athletes and or I get I think about the executives that, you know, that are friends that I'm trying to help. So, yeah, stay in the lane. Let's see. By the way, our community is really smart. So these questions are hard. And thank you, everyone, for submitting the hard questions. So let's get into the first one. Okay, this is very thoughtful. And this is gonna, I think, reflect a lot of people who are

listening, because we all have dealt with this, me included, maybe you at some point. This comes from Bhakti. How do you maintain a sense of self-worth in a room full of high achievers without feeling overwhelmed by regret for not having tried harder in the past or feeling insignificant for not having accomplished as much as those in the room. First of all, your delivery is phenomenal. So thank you for- 18 years on TV, baby. Here we go. Thank you for that. All right. The things that sing out, I'm going to ask you to read it again for me, but not yet. The thing that sings there, there's two things that sing out, I'm going to ask you to read it again for me, but not yet. The thing

that sings there, there's two things that sing. One is it gives an excuse to talk about self-worth and these kind of self-dash concepts. And then I hear imposter syndrome in there. And then I hear the hinge is that my sense of self-dash, I'm going to do self-worth, self-efficacy, and self-confidence, which are three separate constructs that are interrelated and oftentimes confusing. So I'm going to pull them apart from science. But the hinge idea is that my performance impacts my self-dash, my worth, my efficacy, or my confidence. That is not how it's supposed to happen. That is the tail wagging the dog. And so if you, if we get this hinge idea, right, I think we're going to be onto something really valuable for, for this questioner. Okay. So let's do, let's break those apart quickly.

Self-worth is this general feeling that I matter. I don't have to do anything special. I feel like when I show up and how I show up, there's an inherent value and worth to me. And that comes from how you speak to yourself, how your parents spoke to you, how your early philosophy or your family's philosophy, children should be seen and not heard, sit down and shut up, or speak up? Oh, yeah. Yogi has something interesting to say. So those early narratives about how children fit in the world end up sticking with us for a while. And then later on, we're force-ranked and stacked against other kids.

You get an A, a a b a b plus not necessarily as an absolute score but relative to other kids and then we have the playground where we're picked first or last from kickball or softball or whatever the sport is so there's a lot of comparison stuff that happens early in early on which can build or chip away at self-worth. No matter what those mechanisms are, it is your responsibility to build it. If you're listening to this, you're probably an adult or young adult. The show is not designed for kids. So it's your responsibility to build your self-worth. Or rebuild. Or rebuild. Well said.

Thank you. Now let's do self-efficacy. That's that sense of like, I feel powerful. Efficacy is a fancy psychological phrase for power. That means like, I feel like I can make an influence in the spaces that I'm in. Okay. That comes from what you say to yourself. It comes from the philosophy of your parents.

All those things I just said and it is your responsibility to build it or Rebuild it. Yeah, and then the last is self-confidence which which is this idea um Confidence is more transient. So confidence it what I mean by that It's state specific and it's it's constantly shifting And confidence is based on my interpretation of the challenge in front of me mapped up against my internal skills. So if I can love that challenge and I go, yeah, I think I can get that thing done, I'm favorable in confidence.

If I say, oh my God, I don't think I can, with all my internal skills, with all my technical, physical, mental skills, I don't know if I can get that. That's too big for me. Maybe I shouldn't. Confidence is getting reduced. Accuracy about confidence is foundational. So you must be accurate with your internal skills. And if you can frame most of the challenges as an opportunity to grow, to figure it out, to get better, then the equation becomes favorable more often than not. So when I hear the question, I quickly go through those tumblers or those three, and then I go to the reason the imposter syndrome thing is flirting in the conversations because the hinge idea is I'm letting my performance, the things I haven't done yet of my accomplishments,

impact the way I speak to myself, which downgrades self-efficacy, self-worth, self-esteem, self-confidence, self, self, self. Now, what do we do with that? Become intimately aware of what you say to yourself. Stop allowing your external experiences or your past experiences dictate your internal state right now. Take responsibility for it. And then the other bit that I think is really powerful is be in service of someone else. So early on when I did a bunch of public speaking early on, and I would get nervous.

My heart rate would come up. I'd feel the butterflies. And part of me loved, and part of me loved it. And part of me, sometimes I'd be overwhelmed by it and I'd, I'd sweat a little too much or I'd, you know, I'd be, I wouldn't be kind of optimized. And it's because I, my main narrative was that I was more concerned about how I was being perceived by them. Just, this is timely, because it was just a handful of weeks ago, we did an event,

Ford deployed on the USS Ronald Reagan. It was a live warship. We were being trailed by a spy ship. Like the whole thing was intense. And I was doing some work speaking to fighter pilots, heads of departments, CO, XO, like some incredible operators in the military during a time of moderate escalated kind of experiences. One of my finding mastery folks leans over and goes, are you nervous? Because I'm going to go speak in front of a couple thousand on the bay hanger, bay hanger of the Ronald Reagan. A spy jet just kind of peering in on you.

Yeah, you saw some of the pics, right? It was amazing. And so my immediate reflection was, I feel responsible. So there's been a shift somewhere in my life that I'm illuminating now for others, is that I felt responsible for the time that they were giving us. I felt responsible to offer something of meaning. So I needed to be in service of them. And when I'm in service of another person, I kind of fade away from the equation, and I'm no longer doing the self-dash anything. So I'm doing the pour into others, you know, if there's that mechanism.

So there's a couple hinge ideas, I think, embedded in here. You know, when I read this question, Bhakti, great question. I imagine when you walk into a conference room or you pull up to an event, let's just say you're on a sales team, you roll into a fancy hotel and maybe your car isn't as nice as everybody else's that you see in the lot. And you're like, whoa. And you go in, you're like, oh, I know maybe they're managing millions and millions of dollars of accounts and i've got a couple hundred thousands of dollars of accounts and i think there's an easy world where all of a sudden it's whoa i don't i don't belong here like how am i going to figure this out how am i going to fake it how am i just going to either kind of find my way and i want to say like slide into the shadows or just stand up And what I'm hearing you say is almost like front load

how you talk to yourself on your way there. Are there a couple other tools that you might offer like in advance of an environment you're going to walk into and be like, I know that I already don't feel I belong. Like when I go around NFL people, I feel that way. I'm like, I'm the college guy. What do I know? But I got to like find processes to navigate that.

Yeah, that's very cool, Yog. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true. Meaningful relationships are at the center of sustained success. And building those relationships, it takes more than effort. It takes a real caring about your people. It takes the right tools, the right information at the right time. And that's where LinkedIn Sales Navigator can come in. It's a tool designed specifically for thoughtful sales professionals, helping you find the right people that are ready to engage,

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and the majority of my nutrition comes from whole foods. And when I'm traveling or in between meals, on a demanding day certainly, I need something quick that will support the way that I feel and think and perform. And that's why I've been leaning on David Protein Bars. And so has the team here at Finding Mastery. In fact, our GM, Stuart, he loves them so much. I just want to kind of quickly put them on the spot.

Stuart, I know you're listening. I think you might be the reason that we're running out of these bars so quickly. They're incredible, Mike. I love them. One a day, one a day. What do you mean one a day? There's way more than that happening here. Don't tell. Okay. All right. Look, they're incredibly simple. They're effective.

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have been loving the fudge brownie and peanut butter. I know, Stuart, you're still listening here. So getting enough protein matters. And that can't be understated, not just for strength, but for energy and focus, recovery, for longevity. And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value, and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. So I think first and foremost, it'd be important for somebody

to know what their natural response is when they feel small. Is it to fade away or is it to become a little bit more arrogant and chippy you know so when people tighten up what is the response so i would first and foremost go know what your response is and then make some sort of promise that you're not going to let the external world whatever it is the car you drive whatever it is dictate your internal experience i think it starts with a promise make that promise to yourself that the external world is no longer going to dictate my internal experience know what the natural reflective tendency is is it to get small and then i would front load the work of speaking to myself in a way that i'm not

wagged by the external world but that I know how to coach and speak to myself to build myself, to open the aperture of freedom for play, for value, because you're present and you're gonna ask questions, you're present and you're gonna whatever, add to the mix. And then when I've noticed that tendency that I get small or I get chippy or whatever it is that's unbecoming, it's not who I want to be, then I would use that as a moment to quickly course correct and have a go-to so

front load this the self-talk and then in that moment when I'm not quite right that's where I would um I would I would pause I would take a breath and then I would be really interested in the other as opposed to to what are they thinking of me? Because what we know from science is that people are thinking about themselves more than they're thinking about other people. And if you can help them think about themselves, it's like this cool little gift. There's one other element here that really hit me. And he said, quote, without feeling overwhelmed by regret or not having tried harder in the past. We've seen this with friends that are our same age.

I felt this. Maybe you felt this at times where you walk in. Let's just play a generic example. Everybody in the room owns a house except me. And I go in there and they're talking about their mortgage. They're talking about life. And I'm beating myself up for what I didn't save in my 20s, what I didn't invest in my 30s.

Like, that's what I heard was like, tried harder in the past. That, to me, felt like I'm going to, I'm taking shots at me. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I went to self-worth. Like, it's, and it was in the thing. It's chipping away.

It's like, when you do that, it's a little bit like a bandaid. And when you put a bandaid on a cut or something, you know, it sticks. It's pretty good. And then if you take the bandaid off to check it, it'll go back on. It just doesn't stick as well. And then if you do that like 25 times, the bandaid doesn't really stick at all. And I think that that's how self-confidence, negative, critical self-confidence works, is that your relationship with yourself, it just stops really doing the way, working the way it's meant to work. And when you chip away

at yourself like that, it's like the adhesive that's keeping it all together becomes weaker so um how do you do it in that case i mean okay i wrote a book on this right so i have of course a lot to say about the orientation of how you feel about yourself is it influenced by the external world? The fear of people's opinions is this great system inside of ourselves. At some point, you just got to be like, excuse the locker room language here. Fuck, they don't know my life. They didn't live my choices. And I'm trying to figure it out. And the choices I made when I was 20, maybe I kind of knew, but I made those choices in

my life. And because of those choices, I have something here no one else can bring to the table. Like, are you kidding me? So at some point, it's like really being very clear that you're living your life. And if you can hold your choices with dignity even the mistakes that you've made they're all part of you and what you have to offer great like i have great regard and respect for people that really struggle with alcohol and addiction and have fought that fight they have something i can't offer and it's incredibly powerful because that level of suffering and pain has led to

an internal introspection that oftentimes for these folks is incredibly powerful. Yeah. Great episode with Ryan Leaf on that, findingmastery.com and your podcast. The book right behind me, First Rule of Mastery, you know the deal. All right, let's go to Matt. Question number two. Do you have any tips to change mindset and maximize the little free time I get to recharge? Oh, Matt, we feel you here. He has three small children, a fast-paced sales job, and sometimes struggles to downshift after a busy day of work. Let's help Matt and many others on how we can change our mindset and maximize the free time that we have. Isn't this the question of all questions?

Like, how do we do this? I know. I'll speak from personal experiences. Like, there's actually using analogy. If you and I are playing tennis and you're really good at tennis and I'm a beginner at tennis, we're actually playing different games because when you see what I'm doing and I hit a beginner at tennis, we're actually playing different games. Because when you see what I'm doing and I hit the ball over, you've seen it 10,000 times. You've seen it 5,000 times. You've seen that kind of hip angle, the trajectory, something like it. And your brain can do pattern

recognition. And if it's really familiar, you can kind of slow down or you can think differently or you can course correct. You're playing a different game. You're playing in the spaces between the spaces, the spaces between the frames. And I'm playing like it feels like everything is full speed, frame one, frame two, frame three, and you're playing in between the frames, if you will. And that's one of the hallmarks of true masters versus novices or even experts.

True masters are playing inside of the spaces. So let's go big framing here and then small framing in a minute, the space between. And the big frames is do you have enough recovery? The big rocks, the big frames like that you are figuring out how to get eight hours of sleep, you're hydrating properly, you're doing something to switch on your body like are you doing the big stuff properly um and if not none of the nothing i'm going to suggest is going to work okay if you're getting those in place then the maxim is the the way to maximize the next bit is by playing in the spaces which is taking a breath from time to time,

finding those moments in between the moments to smile, to connect with somebody else, to really enjoy the sun on your shoulder, the wind on your face, the water that you're drinking. Like when you are fully present and you're appreciating your experience in that present moment, those are two separate ideas. Being fully present, there's not an appreciation of the present. So these are two separate ideas. I want to make sure I'm not collapsing. When you're fully present and or appreciating your present moment and or deploying a skill to downreg regulate to take the the edge off a moment if you did those three things on a regular basis you're playing inside the spaces of moments yeah and then

what ends up happening is that that person becomes a more efficient organism to run and so the more efficient we become actually the less sleep and that-da-da that we do need. But when we're running around kind of like, you know, what's it, chicken without a head or whatever that odd framing is, that we're very expensive to run. Like we're over leveraging our energy system and not properly recovering from it it just becomes kind of the broth for illness and disease and low vibrance and low performance certainly have you seen there's all these instagram reels that they're all in my my feet right they're all my algorithm and it's like your house is a mess your kids are screaming they're running around your job is intense but you're gonna miss it when it's all done you're gonna wish for a messy house you're gonna wish for crazy kids you're gonna wish for dirt everywhere on the walls and i wonder to your point like it

is that thought because when i see it it always brings a smile on my face it's like yeah enjoy it yeah because he's talking like about truth of like when i'm reading matt is exhausted he's working his ass off he's got three kids he's got to provide and he's just trying to recharge the battery man well that's okay i that big frame that one day later you'll miss it it actually okay it can work but it's it you're swallowing a poison to get that thing to work, the FOMO, fear of missing out. Somebody else is working harder than you. It works to get your time now, which would be a healthy prime. The prime, the primer of don't blow it. It's going to,

you're going to miss it later is a little bit of a poison to swallow. It will help reframe and reground you to like, that's right. I do need to enjoy this because I don't want to fear later that I've missed it or that I've blown it. But then when you arrive later with that narrative underneath the surface, then you're still going to think the same things about later. I felt these times where, okay, the night, let's just say kids are in bed, call it 8.30, right?

Don't judge me if my kids go to bed at 8.30. And I'm like, i just want to decompress and sometimes you'll just mindlessly decompress you know what i'm saying you're scrolling yeah versus like okay that is that is literally diving into the eight hours of potential sleep and deep sleep i can get so is there a thought that you can give mad and all of us that it's like hey dude like be disciplined maybe give yourself 12 minutes of time you know if that's what you need to do like what would you say to that because i think there is a natural world it's like, hey, dude, like be disciplined. Maybe give yourself 12 minutes of time, you know, if that's what you need to do. Like what would you say to that?

Because I think there is a natural world that's like, ah, can I just take a beat? I think I don't have an answer for that because I recognize that for me too, you know. When I do have the big rocks in the container, I'm sleeping well, I'm hydrated properly, my nutrition's on point, I've got the right mobility to kind of exercise ratio and I'm loving the challenges

in my life. Those are the four stressors sleep well, eat and hydrate well, move well and stress well. When I had those in place, I feel like I'm, I'm more agile. I'm more able to feel my way and make the hard decisions to be able to be the person I want to be. So I just go there. Stress well. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. If you do all of those things, but you're framing stress in a negative way, like, man, this again, can I get a break? Why is it always, when are people going to change? Like when you're creating a narrative that is unfavorable for stress, it kind of undoes everything. Yeah.

Okay, that leads into our next question. All right, let's get to Rebecca. This one is a pretty fascinating question. I'm a registered nurse working who has been working in acute healthcare hospital for 15 years now. So she has got some mastery at her craft. The business, as we all know, of health care is rapidly diminishing

the ability of health care workers to thrive and care for the people that they serve. She said, I see my fellow co-workers experience devastating emotional and physical traumas that seem to be brushed off as, quote unquote, part of the job. The shortages of both physicians and nurses continues to grow, and the people that need health care is ballooning, all while the business is cutting the essentials and leaving her workforce, the health care workforce, to make up for the losses so patients don't feel the pain of all the dysfunction. So that's the framework. Here's the question. What can we do as a healthcare worker

to remain strong and steadfast in such a disheartening position? Okay. First, thank you for what you do. And I know that healthcare workers kind of hear that a lot. I mean that in this way is that I think about where would I prefer to live if it were not the United States of America? What would be an alternative? And there's lots of really wonderful places on the planet that I could

see myself living. I love the United States. We're kind of in chaos right now. So I do think about it when I get to like this doom and gloom narrative about how unhinged our geopolitical narrative has become and what will happen to us. And I think about as a first order, like what is the healthcare system in that new country that I want to go to if I were to go to that? So I think about how great the practitioners in the United States of America are when it comes to medical and how safe I feel if I get hurt. So if I'm pushing an edge or if I'm in a bad accident or I'm in some sort of thing and illness, I feel really safe here. So first and foremost, thank you for how you commit to wanting to elevate our industry of health even further. Okay.

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g-r-a-y dot com and use the code finding mastery 20 at felix gray dot com for 20 off the second is i really appreciate the honesty in the question and the fatigue for health care workers is a real thing um we are not doing proper in training. So for this question to never arise again, we need to go upstream and invest in proper training, the inside of training. In elite sport, we don't talk about working harder. We talk about recovering more intelligently.

I think people would be surprised by that. The amount of resources that go into the recovery after the hard day of practice is incredible. And because the only product in elite sport is a human. That's the product. So the bright minds that say, how do we have an amazing high performing or masterful set of performers, they invest in those people, craft, body, mind, and they're making sure that the recovery is met for equal unit of stress with equal unit recovery daily. And we're not doing that in the healthcare system. I wasn't taught it as a licensed psychologist, how to recover properly. And I was three weeks into my first internship and I was flat out exhausted. And I know I look like a, like a, a walking ghost in the hallway. Cause I was so

tired. I had no way of discerning how to downgrade the intensity of my listening. Cause I, I didn't know what I was doing. So I was working really hard to be fully engaged and look for everything. And my supervisor pulled me aside and she's very clear. She goes, okay, I can see you. She said, first and foremost, you care so much. Make sure that you're figuring out how to take the spaces in between and recover. And she says, I want wanna make sure that after every client that you see, go wash your hands.

This is before any kind of COVID, this is 25 years ago. I said, what? And she says, yeah, this is not a germ thing. I want you to go wash your hands to meditate, to say a prayer, to do a couple breaths, to be grateful. It's your little private moment in the bathroom that you're gonna let go of the experiences and the conversation and the suffering and the pain and the excitement sometimes that people are bringing

into your office. So have something that you're doing every 45 minutes to let go. Why was that practice not introduced early in my professional training in the academic system? Because it was kind of left randomly to this brilliant supervisor to say it to me. Thank you, Dr. Maxwell. So my answer, recovery, recovery, recovery, recovery, recovery. How do you do it? It's not hard to understand the levers. It's sleeping proper. It's hydrating proper, like we talked about about but there's one more i want to add to it which is when you develop psychological skills to navigate high stress environments you're better able to be agile and so the psychological skills that are foundational for all people that want to live a full life is knowing how to find a sense of calm. That comes from practicing

breathing mostly. A little bit of self-talk in there as well. So if you want to develop more calm, it's breathing and self-talk. Knowing how to develop confidence. It comes from a lot of self-talk and a little bit of breathing. So breathing and self-talk are two foundational skills to help us navigate this topsy-turvy world that can kind of put us on our heels quickly. So those would be two. And then the last psychological skill I would mention is developing a mindfulness practice to be just a bit more aware. And when you're more aware, you can spend more time in the present moment with the right type of intensity. And when you spend more time in the present moment with the right type of intensity. And when you spend more time

in the present moment, you get to those insights, those aha moments like, oh, this is how this works. And then over time, those insights turn into wisdom. How would you follow up that? She followed up with how can she reframe? We reframe our outlook on our future. Well, there. Yeah. So I was thinking about whether i add the fourth one about optimism yeah recovery psychological skills mindfulness and then i again i would point to optimism so optimism is a skill and i haven't met a world's best that is not fundamentally optimistic i think that's amazing finding that i've personally experienced i don't have any data to suggest that best in the world tend to be optimistic but that's my personal experience

that being said there is rich data on how optimism is beneficial for performance and for health but not i'm talking about the half performers or half percenters in the performance world so optimism is a fundamental belief that something good is going to happen like something good is about to take place that there's a favorable outcome that is um that could take place and we train that you can condition that and when you're around optimistic people um by default you become a little bit more optimistic and if you're around pessimistic people by definition you would become a little bit more optimistic. And if you're around pessimistic people, by definition you would become a little bit more pessimistic. And in the healthcare fields, there can be a cynicism and a pessimism that is pervasive.

It's a way of dealing with kind of the radical stressors that people feel. I would caution against like swallowing the pessimism and cynicism from others if you're really trying to have a life that is full of zest i would caution swallowing that and even laughing with them about how bad something could be and have a discipline to invest in your own sense of optimism which is being disciplined to find what could be good. Using your sentences with a comma, which is you can say the thing that's difficult or hard or stressful,

comma, insert optimism tag. So difficult truth, comma, optimism tag. It's one of the ways that I help leaders in senior leadership operations invest in their culture and invest in their people is by just about every sentence they use, make sure you're infusing it with what could be great if we do the work together in the right way. That's, that's cool. That is Rebecca. Take that back to the group. I cannot wait. Cause you're right at the core of optimism. You gave me this line years ago. It made sense.

The core of optimism is resilience. You having to navigate resiliency, Rebecca. So well done in that regard. Cool. All right. Let's punch out to Ohio. Okay. This is from Zach. He's a school district superintendent in Ohio. So he's working in the school district. This is his reality. He writes, we are facing a fiscal deficit and the real threat of state funding being cut. I've always valued creating a high-purpose team environment. A few of our core values that we've learned from you, Mike, are take care of yourself so that you can take care of others and be great teammates.

Any thoughts on how to sustain or enhance a high-purpose environment when the future is uncertain and tough decisions on potential reductions are possible? First, I think I know Zach from our community because he's been very engaged. So Zach, first, thank you. I'm rooting for you. I mean, at a deficit with cuts coming,

it's not an easy picture. Yeah, now is the time when those first principles and the purpose work that you've done show up. That's interesting. The back of it, he says, it feels somewhat inauthentic to stress core values centered on mental wellbeing and team as we prepare for potential reductions.

Yeah, all right. So this is where you've made this leading investment in purpose, in let's say psychological skills or recovery or all the well-being stuff. Now is where you get to reap the benefit of it. So I would keep pointing at it. I wouldn't say that I'm competing to create more investment in it. I'm saying reap the reward of it right now and talk about it and point to it. And I would absolutely stand ground to make sure that those budgets don't get cut to your best ability. Paint the picture for people. You know, so let me play this out. A, B and C take place and we don't have proper beds. We don't have quiet environments for people to sleep. And I know that's not the school,

but I'm just being dramatic to paint a scene. When you paint the picture for people and forcing logic on it, I don't know. It makes it a little bit harder for people to say no. I'm saying the benefit right now is that you put the work in, now show the benefit. The way that you can be agile, that you can be optimistic, you can stay relational in how you're trying to solve this with, you know, who's ever establishing budget, developing those mindsets of curiosity and agility and relation, staying

purpose minded throughout this whole thing. That is the recipe for quote unquote winning and winning in your case, Zach feels like it's taking care of other people. So, you know, it's interesting. He followed up that they train, then your teachers and coaches are defining your best course. Yeah, that's what I thought it was.

So they have all of the tools, but people are about to lose their jobs. And what I'm hearing you say is a version of remind them of the things that we've been talking about and training upon. So it'll guide you in your next step, even if it's not here at that school. Yeah, I would say I don't, I wasn't going that far. But I would say yes, I would say, you know, this is when, look, we've made the investment, this is now the time for us to show

to lead with exceptional clarity to lead that is is principle-based, values-based, to make sure we're investing in the right way for people to be able to know what we stand for. The world is not, it's a false reality that the world is stable. The world is constantly unfolding underfoot. This moment and this moment and this moment, you and I have never been in this moment before.

So it's always brand new and net new and da-da new and net new and so it's this false narrative that we have that um that it's anything other than unstable it's always unstable so it's a reminder yeah so it's always net new and if we can't accept that we become quite anxious about the unfolding, unpredictable nature of the present moment. So it's easy to talk about purpose when everything is stable. It's hard to talk about purpose and be about it when it is seemingly dire to some. Leonard Cohen has this great insight, the singer-songwriter, the poet, that there's a crack in everything and it's in the crack where the light comes in. So you've done the work ahead of time, Zach, keep finding the crack, show where the light is. And I can't, I can't imagine how important the work that you've

already done, how it's going to pay dividends. So I would encourage you to maybe tell us how it goes. You know, you're the one in the amphitheater right now. Zach, write us back and let us know how it goes. I hope that what I just said was not an empty meal. No, I think anybody in a leadership position, when it gets hard, and it's guaranteed to get hard, right, do you double down is what I'm hearing. And even if some of the people he's doubling down on may have their

jobs be eliminated, they're going to be better for it is what I'm hearing from you. That's cool. Yeah, I would fundamentally co-sign that. Okay. Another educator, Peter, recently started a school counseling job at a middle school in Scottsdale, Arizona. Go Sun Devils. While it is a rewarding experience, there are significant challenges. One challenge is trying to ensure students who are academically motivated. It seems overwhelming because there is no real consequences for students who fail a class. They're still moving on to the next grade, whether they're in an A, F, or anything in between.

So the question is, what framing would you use to help instill a healthy sense of motivation for these students? You know, my favorite professors and teachers were ones that they absolutely loved life. And they loved what they were getting to share with me, with us. It wasn't about me. It was about what I was watching as somebody that was like the full animation of how exciting the thing that they've studied or that they're wanting to impart, just how wonderful it is. And I'm not saying that they're cheerleaders for something. They would do it in their own unique way, sometimes corny, sometimes whatever. But when I would be around

somebody that has this love affair for helping me or somebody else grow and a love affair for the information that they're trying to share, it's infectious. So just being around those folks, I'm saying makes, made a difference in my life as a student in high school. I didn't find one of them. I didn't find any of them. I was too wrapped up in my own crazy world to even probably pay attention. But then when, you know, the old saying, when the student is ready, the teacher appears. The teacher is always there then. The teacher is always there. And so that is your role as the teacher to always be there. And I'm going to point to three professors

that made a massive difference in my life. They didn't know me, but they loved their disciplines. And it happens to be psychology, philosophy, and theology. And they absolutely loved them. And they challenge me to think deeper, to really examine some of the greatest thinkers in the world historically. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day.

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That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash finding mastery. And it led me down a path. So full love affair, zest for life, an optimistic view about what could be holding the vision about, um, an incredible tomorrow is really important for young kids. So I would not underestimate that. And then I'd also, you know, work my ass off to, we say, you know, to try to reach another person, how do you reach them? You, you ask questions or you somehow let them know that you're, you do understand what's happening for them. You understand their fears. You understand what's happening in their life, not the exact nature of it, but somehow you convey to them that you see them and you understand. It might be questions, it might be

head nods, it might be, you know, whatever. You've got to use your unique style. So I would manage those two things exceptionally well. See the person and hold a compelling future with this zest for life that you bring into a love affair with what you're trying to impart on these young kids because they need they need us adults to stand up especially right now and now is not the time for letting our worries and frustrations and cynical nature overrun the situation but understand that that might not be the consistent narrative they feel. So see them, see that they're scared. Kids are scared right now. College for a private institution in the United States in the next two years is going to be over $100,000 a year.

It's crazy. What has happened? That's 400 and maybe $40,000 for a four-year education. That's unattainable. So I... It's a good point because, again, we don't know the scenario, but I can imagine a student knowing those numbers saying, impossible, whatever, why do I care? To your point, what I'm hearing is it's upon the teacher to continue to compete, to show up for them, because there are ways. There's always ways, whether that is exposing them to thoughts they didn't know, grants they weren't aware of, paths they didn't ever saw

before them. I think that's actually a beautiful part of the internet. We can light it up all day long. TikTok's terrible. Social media sucks. There are beautiful elements of what it can unearth for students. You've done a great job. I've seen you with athletes, Mike, where you compete to learn the learner. And I love that part when I watch you work with quarterbacks specifically. Yeah. I do think that...

We'll stay on the college thing for a minute is that, so if we're advancing a kid that doesn't have the right requisite skills to actually advance, of course, we're not doing them any favors. So the question is about motivation for them to understand the motivation. We have to understand them. So learn the learner. And if you, as a leader, if you understand that the kind of the four levers for motivation, it will help. I wrote a long article on the science and the application of these four levers of motivation, intrinsic, extrinsic, internal, and external. And I'll put a link in the show notes of the, I think I published it on LinkedIn or somewhere, which would be an important thing to go read. And then the other

skill I would suggest beyond being a zest for life, beyond being the beacon for what could be an amazing future is to understand either Socratic questioning, motivational interviewing, and or Rogerian questioning. So Carl Rogers holds the position that you have what it takes inside of you. So my job is to open the aperture with an unconditional positive regard for you. So if my posture as a teacher is an unconditional positive regard for you, and that you've got some answers in there, my job is to open the aperture up so those answers can come forward. That zest for life, solutions to compete to take the test to your best ability. If you can do that, unconditional positive regard, if you can ask questions to elicit a better understanding of the person. That's Socratic methoding and motivational interviewing.

And you understand those four pillars that I talked about motivation. That would be a really technical place to start that I think would have an outsized impact to make a difference in the kids' lives. Well said. Well said, Peter. Best of luck. Again, let us know how that thing shakes out. All right, let's go to Felipe. Felipe says, I lead a talented 21

person team at the International Paralympic Committee, guided by principles like focusing on what we can control and embracing challenges opportunity. With my eventual transition, I want to ensure continuity, psychological safety and growth for the team. So his question is, what frameworks or practices would you recommend to navigate this transition intentionally, minimizing disruption and maximizing resilience? Sounds like he's moving on from the craft that he's in. Yeah, so... He's proud of what he did. Well, you're really good at transitions. When you hear this question, what comes up for you?

I always believe that story is at the heart of everything. So I think it's on Felipe to make sure that the 21-person team is not familiar with his story and his leadership traits, but the story that they've all created. And a great story is four categories, right? It's got, number one, great characters. Two, it has to have stakes. It has to have a journey you're gonna go on and then it has an outcome. But the best stories make you feel something. And when I think of the International Paralympic Committee,

I think the whole world, when we ever watch Scout Bassett, I mean, there's so many Paralympians that have just inspired all of us. You've had many on your show, Mike. I've had them on my podcast too. It's the story of how we feel. So I would say, hey, that's the beginning of the framework or practice to navigate that transition with intention is reminding them the story that they are living already that you helped curate. I love that. I don't want to add to to it i want to support what you just said in in

the story or the narrative of what we're doing here together when that's clear and it it becomes far bigger than any one of us and so i i want to ask you say the say the four elements for great story together i love this gonna say this to to locker, say the four elements for a great story together. I love this. I say this to locker rooms all the time. Great characters, 100 players on the team, 21 players on his team. You have stakes. You're going to win or lose. You're going to go on a journey.

You have a schedule in front of you. You have days in front of you of the Olympics coming up, Paralympics coming up. And then you have the obvious outcome. But the number one thing that makes a great story great is that it makes people feel something i think all the keynotes that you do like you give them the four things many times probably but they feel something when they walk out yeah and they remember usually one to three stories they don't remember every little detail so that to me and that's like out of like the disney world of storytelling like what are the greatest movies what are the greatest

films what are the greatest books like they have those categories it's really cool because just sometimes just naming what's happening is really important so if you just name like okay listen we're in transition and the story that we've created is bigger than any one of us if you just name like, okay, listen, we're in transition and the story that we've created is bigger than any one of us. If you just call it out and if the story is not clear, then there's some work maybe to do. And I'll defer to you. How would you help them develop their story if they haven't done it yet?

Well, I would ask a lot of questions like you do, right? And I would imagine, cause you've done this with athletes. I have well as well, I would imagine for Felipe's group, they would talk about psychological safety. They would talk about a growth mindset. They would talk about the great work that they did over a course of time or continuity as he referenced. And then you're just reminding them.

I think a lot of your job is at times, you've done it to me, where you're just a mirror of what I'm saying. Like I always say this in, you know, when I interview people, my job is just to reflect what you said to me. Does this make sense? And I think that would be a tool for Felipe to use now is to ask questions, hear their responses, and then you're framing the story of authenticity that they just said back to them. You're almost reminding, like, hey, you got this, go, you got this. Look at all the things that you've done, this is amazing. Yeah, cool, very cool.

Cool answer. Thanks, man. Thanks, Chad. Appreciate it, that was the one that, you bounced it back, I wasn't ready for that. You weren't ready for that. Yeah, I liked it, I liked it. Well done.

This was fun, man, first AMA, I've listened to so many. Yeah, it's great. Not good to be a part of it in the sacred space here finding mastery.com let's go thank you for um bringing your zest for life here and then creating the space for us to to muse they're tough questions the they're multi-faceted multi-disciplined you know answers that that i want to provide and i think the main thought that I just I'm feeling right now is I'm rooting for people in so many ways. And it feels like it's a the world is so complicated right now. There's so many unknown variables that are real stressors hitting people that making sure that we're getting quiet and connecting with our loved ones and speaking truth. That those three elements, I think, will carry us in a very rich way through these rapid waters that we're in.

Getting quiet and connected, speaking truth to our loved ones is going to be really important. Nobody does it alone. We need each other. I am so honored to be a part of people's lives through finding mastery and maybe maybe the listener feels like oh gosh i'm so glad that mike and yogi are here for me we also feel this i feel the same yeah so we need each other let's be great and that's as simple as um the thousands of micro choices that we can make each day just trying to do the right one a thousand plus times a day would be a radical commitment you said something that might paint a picture as we end this ama session here you said that no two days are alike and you said a version like we

have to accept that things just being kind of normal or status quo, like it's just inaccurate. And I think at first when I heard that, you're thinking like, whoa, the world's changing. You're gonna lose your job or things are gonna shift. And then as I sat in, as you kept talking, I was like, we both love nature so much. It's kind of beautiful to watch the wind blow differently, or watch waves blow differently, or watch trees do.

You go outside and go for a walk right now, tomorrow will not look like today and the wind will not feel like it did two days ago. And that's a beautiful thing. And I thought of that here with life. So as it gets chaotic, you elicited that story and I'm like, yeah, that's kind of beautiful. Why would I want it to be the 72 and sunny every day? Give me a little wind, give me a little change, give me something. So thank you for that. Appreciate you, Yogi. You got it, man.

All right, there it is. AMA in the books right here in the springtime. We'll be back for more findingmastery.com. That was so good. I really love this podcast. There's so much good in here.

And Emma, am I correct? That thinking that next up we have something from the Finding Mastery Vaults? Okay. We have a big back catalog of awesome conversations here at Finding Mastery. And sometimes so much time has passed and so many new listeners have joined us that it feels only appropriate to grab an episode from the vault and re-release it. So we're going to revisit a great conversation you had with Dr. Kelly Starrett. Yes, it's so good. He is so much fun. And did you like this one? I really did. And

let's just say I was sitting a little taller and breathing a little deeper by the end of it. I know. I think he probably does that to everybody. It's really good. And you're right, we're just shy now of 500 episodes into the Finding Mastery podcast. And every once in a while, an earlier conversation calls to be brought back into the light. And that's exactly the case with this week's From the Vault episode featuring Dr. Kelly Start. If you heard it the first time around, it is worth a second listen. And for those who might have missed it, Dr. Start is a world-renowned mobility

pioneer. In this conversation, we dive into why mobility isn't just for athletes, it's foundation for all of us. I can't wait for you to hear this one. It is a must listen. Whatever age, whatever level of fitness that you're at, this is one for you. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify. We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're looking for even more insights, we have a newsletter we send

out every Wednesday. Punch over to findingmastery.com slash newsletter to sign up. This show wouldn't be possible without our sponsors and we take our recommendations seriously. And the team is very thoughtful about making sure we love and endorse every product you hear on the show. If you want to check out any of our sponsor offers you heard about in this episode, you can find those deals at findingmastery.com slash sponsors. And remember, no one does it alone. The door here at Finding Mastery is always open to those looking to explore the edges and the reaches of their potential so that they can help others do the same. So join our community, share your favorite episode with a friend, and let us know how we can continue to show up for you.

Lastly, as a quick reminder, information in this podcast and from any material on the Finding Mastery website and social channels is for information purposes only if you're looking for meaningful support which we all need one of the best things you can do is to talk to a licensed professional so seek assistance from your health care providers again a sincere thank you for listening until next episode be well think well keep exploring