Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Baggio Husidić: Soccer

Episode Date: September 9, 2015

Sport is a way to learn more about who we are — how we handle success, failure, pain, loss, friendships, challenges and opportunities. In this upcoming conversation, sport becomes the initial “handshake” that has allowed us to talk about the deeper experiences in life — freedom, love, risk, and family. Popularly known as Baggio, Adis Husidić was born in Velika Kladuša, SFR Yugoslavia (present-day Bosnia and Herzegovina). Baggio and his family fled Bosnia in the mid-1990s to escape the Bosnian War, spending time in a refugee camp in southern Croatia, and living in Hamburg, Germany for several years, before eventually settling in Libertyville, Illinois in 1997. Husidić was drafted in the second round (20th overall) of the 2009 MLS SuperDraft by the Chicago Fire, and signed a Generation Adidas contract. He is currently a member of the Los Angeles Galaxy, In this conversion he shares his love for life, his unique path, and his search for meaning and mastery._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value, and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. And in this next conversation, this is a long conversation and it went by so fast. I hope that it's the same for you. And it's really about an amazing journey for somebody who is now one of the top performers in soccer and in the MLS

for sure. And a very unique path. And so this next conversation is with Baggio and he's currently playing on the LA Galaxy. And he helped me first just reconnect to gratitude. And he reminded me of the potency of being grounded and authentic. And I hope that comes through in this conversation. It was really noticeable during our conversation. his his path towards mastery begins on a farm in um you know a beautiful part of the country where uh and but it turns into a war zone at age seven and so this is bosnia we're talking about and his family was forced to escape and they first escaped into a refugee camp where he takes us through the journey and the challenges of living through the risk and the danger of war he walks us through what it's like to be absolutely hated as a child from from people that didn't want him to be around in in a new country and um he's also you know

he talks about the value of sport and he says it's even cliche but that he it was a place where he could feel equal to other kids and you know the ball doesn't lie so to speak and just letting himself be himself on the field of play in soccer was something that was important for him. He talks about what happens facing down violence and where for, I think he said six months, he had to fight. And he had to fight because he child going through this and then being bullied and then having to fight his way through this on a regular basis every day. This alone is a fascinating journey. But the fact that he's actually one of, I don't know a few, but he's one of the folks that have had traumatic experiences in his life and have indexed on what we call post-traumatic growth, which is essentially going through heavy stuff, being very resilient and developing resiliency along the way, then being able to snap into an approach towards, let me see how far I can take what I've learned.

And this conversation is a gift. And speaking of gifts, there was this gift that his mom and dad gave him somehow of just being grounded they were grounded in some of the most challenging moments and he talks about what it's like to be able to see his parents go through really difficult and heavy situations and they did it poised and they did it with a weight to them and it's noticeable even now for him and so he talks about risk-taking and growing up with landmines everywhere and you know um i mean tragically like he would hear things um erupt in the in the background or basically a landmine going off and then he'd hear somebody crying and he'd say to hear that a couple times a

day so i i share all this up the up front because there's something really important is that we we want when i say we meaning people we want to be able to be graceful and poised when it's when we're in a challenging moment and one of the skills that leads to that is resiliency. And resiliency, the only way to develop resiliency is to go through really difficult and hard times. And then if we know that to be true, and this is part of the equation, one, what we want is to be graceful and poised in challenging moments. Two, that to be able to do that, we need to be able to go to and experience difficult things to develop the necessary skill of resiliency. So there's more to this equation, but those two parts are really important. Then it leads to a third really important idea, which is,

okay, then for me to be graceful and poised in challenging moments, and that means I have to go through difficult things, then let me just embrace when something's difficult. And let me actually invite in my training or in my daily life what it feels like to go through something challenging, which means that there's an orientation to purposely put people or ourselves in uncomfortable situations. And those uncomfortable situations are where growth happens. So if we can just embrace some of the lessons that he's teaching us about his unique journey and then anchor it to some of the research around resiliency and poise under pressure and growth, that there's maybe something that we can walk away from this conversation actually do, which is shift our approach towards difficult and look for moments in time that are uncomfortable

and when we're in it, kind of grin and smile and be able to say to ourselves, like, this is where I'm building. This is where I'm building me and my resiliency to be able to handle difficult things in the future. So there's so many great lessons in this and I'm honored to be able to sit down and for him to be able to share his story with us and for me to pass it on to you. So, let's just jump right into this conversation with the salt of the earth and a very talented athlete, Baggio.

Baggio, welcome. Thank you for coming to the Finding Master mastery podcast and it sounds even formal as I said that but really what I just want to do is have a conversation about your path and the way that you understand the world and you know the mindset mental skills that you've used to to arrive so thank you for coming in thank you for having me. I'm really excited to share some of my stories. Yeah, and you've got them. Yeah, I got a few, and I think we'll go into detail on some of them, and I think you'll find them pretty interesting. Okay, so let's start. Let's just talk about your path. What I've come to understand is that people that are pursuing mastery in their life, there's not one path.

And your path stands out as being phenomenal to me of what you've seen and smelt and heard and what you've been through as a youngster to be able to be an elite athlete in America. And can we just start with, like, what was it like for you at an early age? And let's go back what just tell me the age you want to go back to so um i was born 87 so we'll go i left home when i was just turning seven so we'll go you know to the 93 94 when the civil war really broke out and i'll kind of feel you and my life before that was um nothing but joy um my parents were pretty successful accountants you know my life was very simple we um whatever we ate and grew was on our farm that's how we lived there what what is what does a farm look and feel like in in bosnia

oh man it was it's it's green depending on the seasons it's hilly it's um it's open it's it's it's always a fresh breath of air every every day you know we're pretty far away from the biggest city so there was no no pollution whatsoever, dirt roads. Is this a farm that has a working farm with animals? So all of our family lived on a 3,000, 4,000-acre land. Wow. So my aunts, my uncles, we all lived in the land together. We shared.

One of the families had chickens that they took care of the other had cows the other had uh depending the seasons corn wheat some had uh gardens you know with different vegetables so we all took part in in doing that and how many family members are we talking about so we we were at my father my dad's um dad's land which now is my dad's land um so he had all the all his brothers lived on the land pretty much he has three brothers one that passed away during the war so there's two remaining there and the grandmother who recently also passed away. So that house was to his youngest brother. Okay, so would you say it's like 20 people in the family?

Yeah, about 20 people. Okay, so a pretty large group of people sharing resources and land. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so I don't know if I'm over-romantic romanticizing this but i can imagine a bunch of kids running around yeah yeah so we all um obviously my my brother alan he's 18 months older than me um he had his group of friends from neighboring uh families i had mine and you know we all just kind of hung out and ran free in the in the forests and you know picked our berries and we knew knew how to use the land to survive and when I say survive

I don't mean that the conditions were harsh back then it's meaning like we we knew as a whole family how to um eat properly and take care of ourselves and survive of what we had there we never had to go to grocery stores unless we wanted a coca-cola that was like the biggest treat i i don't you wouldn't know this but i grew up on a farm as well in on the east coast in virginia and um you know in the winter time we had to go get water because it would our pipes would freeze and we had a chop wood to heat the house and yeah well it wasn't you know did you say hundreds of acres that you were living on like three four thousand yeah it's a big difference yeah we had like a couple acres right and so I can't imagine yeah yeah I would maybe you'll

be able to put up some pictures of of of your farm yeah yeah i have some pictures it's really cool yeah i'd love to see that yeah um so you could kind of visualize it in the in the voice and then once you see it see if it was anything relative to what you imagine okay so then then then um you moved to age uh age seven and everything changed. Yeah. Well, before we moved, about six months prior, the civil war broke out and it was a three-way war between Serbians, Croatians, and Bosnians. And that was, you know, back then I didn't understand what was going on. And I think my parents did a really good job for a really long time to hide what was happening.

In the simplest term, it was Muslim cleansing in a sense. When you say that, what do you mean by that? Religious genocide. Okay. And to this day, they're still finding mass graves of Bosnian Muslims. Wow. And when media covers certain things, those are words you don't really use very lightly, and they're rarely used in the mainstream media so it's difficult

for really to people understand what actually happened in that civil war were you aware of it well i mean as a seven-year-old you can't hide the fact that the ground is shaking and the bullets are lighting up the ground you You know what's happening. So you see soldiers walking past and going by, and then you'll see an army of 10 tanks driving past your house on a dirt road. So as much as you can hide it, you know, all right, well, why are mom and dad starting to pack stuff up, and why are we all of a sudden leaving our house?

How did they pack up? Did they pack up frantically, like with a sense of urgency? Did they pack up with a purpose and were they calm? It was pack up any memories. You know, like the one thing I had was a toy rabbit that made it all the way to Germany through the camps, through all the stuff. Through the refugee camps? Yeah, all the way. All the way, I believe, until we had to leave Germany.

We somehow forgot it. She grabbed all of our photo albums, a few pieces of clothing, but just stuff that she had that she wanted to keep because eventually our house got bombed and got destroyed and now it's we rebuilt it and stuff but everything was pretty much destroyed she wanted to keep stuff that was you know that you couldn't remake okay so age seven you're packing up there's tanks there's bullets flying it's obviously your city and your home are under attack and then your family of how many flee to maybe flea is not the right word but move to germany to a refugee camp

no no so we um we go to the croatian side of the border okay where the um the european Union set up a refugee camp. So that's when they kind of got involved. How far of a... We live right on the border. The problem with that was we didn't go straight to the camp. We had to kind of zigzag around the war. And once it passed, we came back around into the camp okay so it was pretty much like a think of like a small little um suburban town completely destroyed and gutted and we moved in there and set up camp on the on the border um of the creation side because people are trying to flee but the

border is completely blocked off okay and then was this by foot or by car or uh some by car some by foot some by horses donkeys really yeah this is your family like loaded up and like here we go we're just yeah i mean we we had um we had a car um not everyone left, a lot of people, you have to remember that this land is passed down generation to generation. So a lot of the older people, they had too much pride to leave their homeland. They'd rather die than, you know, give up what they've lived for forever. And even some of my uncles and aunts, they refused to leave and just risk whatever could happen. How does that decision impact? Seeing the family's different value sets, some aunts and uncles that stayed and then some that chose to leave.

As an adult now, looking back, how is that? I talk about this with and this this is kind of funny we never talk about this as a family oh you didn't no i think um even now even now it's something that it's never brought up ever and i know i know that my parents are struggling really bad because they've lost a lot of friends and family through this. Which is weird, because I want to know more detail. I'm so close to my brother, but we don't even really talk about it. It's just like a thing that we know we went through something really scary and really messed up.

And it's like, all right, that's behind us. And I have a different view on it. I want to use this road that we went down to show how difficult times and troubled childhoods and affect certain people or how they mold a person. I think that'd be a really cool teaching tool to show someone who thinks that has it hard, then you show them a different perspective of Yeah, because you lived it, right? Yeah, you lived it and I mentioned to some friends a few weeks ago that it's the experience that if you see it online, you can emphasize for it and you feel bad. But when you're in it and you feel it, it's a whole different perspective that you

have on that. And what is, can you capture in some words what it was like for you when you were leaving? Or was the, I'm sorry, was it the leaving when you were leaving or was was that i'm sorry was it the leaving that was difficult and the tanks and that that experience of war or was it the refugee camp no was it the process yeah i'll get to that okay so you said um what what was the feeling of some families being able to leave yeah thing and uh just to answer that um you know to leave everything is really really tough so everything your grandparents gave to you everything you've known your whole life just to leave that is really really hard for people to do so and i can't say you're more of a person or less of a person or risking your kids's life, risking your own life by staying.

So it's not my role to really try to justify why my parents didn't stay or why they did stay or why their uncles or aunts did stay or didn't. You know, and because I'll never know. Like, I was just a child there because I don't know what my thought process would be if I was in their shoes and how I would react. So I wish I, I don't wish, I wish I never have to make that decision ever. But, you know, I'd love to ask my parents one day. I just don't know how they feel about it. I know they're very emotionally scarred and they're so old school. They don't believe in therapy.

They don't, they're just, you know, very they don't believe in therapy they don't they're just you know very very dedicated to their kids yeah um it was a it was a family decision yeah that the two of them made to survive better to do to take care of yeah i think i could be wrong but i think we left without saying anything to anyone because we're the only ones that went that route well so the rest of the family on the land stayed yeah we ended up meeting up again in the refugee camp but once the war was starting come we pretty much zigzag through and say to different people's houses while the war passed so we went up in the refugee camp the entire family or the rest of the family the rest of the family we connect again in the refugee camp the entire family or the rest of the family the rest of the family

we connect again in the refugee camp cool through that through those three months of zigzagging through my dad's old my dad's middle brother um ended up dying in the war which was our neighbor on that in the house right next door to it well right meaning next door like 300 400 yards down that's what we called next door okay um so at that point that was the only family member that was that was lost um so to the camp camp is run by the European Union. So they're kind of the peacemakers there. But, yeah, it's far from that, really. So we're at the camp, I think, a total of around six or seven months. We're at this camp, and everyone's trying to cross into the border

because the war is happening at home. And we end up staying in this little house. There's about 16 of us in this tiny little room because this area is protected by the Union, by the EU, so no soldiers could come in here and shoot people or anything. It's me, my brother, my mom. So a lot of the men were forced to go into the war. So if you showed up at the protected zone, the men were gone?

Yeah. So my dad, he was well-connected throughout the ex-Yugoslavia. He was a big helper to a lot of people. He was like a people's man and really well-respected. He made it across into the Croatian border. There was a lot of bribing going on back there

giving soldiers money to get across. Okay. So he went around a month or two into the camp across and he hid in split Croatia

at his niece's apartment. Okay. So the next five months, it's just my mom taking care of us too. Was this, and was your situation like a tent? Imagine. So imagine houses with bullet holes,

no windows and just doors. Oh, that's what the camp was. Yeah. Just doors. Yeah. Okay. So we were in there. It was, we had an aunt, an uncle, my mom's parents or dog. His name was Jacksy. He was a, I think like a Australian, some kind of Australian. Looking kind of guy. He was cute. The things we remember. Yeah.

And then how long were you there in the camps? Total of probably seven months. Okay. So, I'm seven years old. My brother's eight and a half. We're not allowed to go anywhere.

You stay in... Yeah. So you have to remember the war passed through. They developed the camp there. Okay. But one of the strategies of the war was landmines. There were landmines everywhere.

I mean, kids' playground, bathrooms. I mean, anywhere you could think of, there were landmines. So maybe you'd hear a boom and someone's crying. Or you'd see fingers, toes, kids without you know without limbs um so when the when it explodes it just goes in different directions so a lot of people had like cut up eyes faces like blown up bodies and these are are these memories of yours meaning that yeah so this is what i remember yeah and i'd love to when i'd love to but i'd like to know what what my mom saw because i to this day she is so emotionally like we can't

tell her that i have a hurt toe you know she's just so emotionally like unstable it's crazy finding mastery is brought to you by Momentus. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday, what you put in your body matters. And that's why I trust Momentus. From the moment I sat down with Jeff Byers, their co-founder and CEO, I could tell this was not your average supplement company. And I was immediately drawn to their mission, helping people achieve performance for life. And to do that, they developed what they call the Momentus Standard.

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A hundred percent. So like the majority of people, you know, can identify with that. Yeah. There's something else that's not well talked about or researched as much, but it's post-traumatic growth. And so some people go through situations such as yourself and they come out the other side, resilient and, and, and deeply rooted in the truth. And they come out on the other side and there's this growth arc that they have in life. And when I first understood your story, I said, I wonder if that's what's at play. You went through something really challenging and difficult, the worst of the worst.

And here you are on one of the premier teams for professional soccer in America. So when you hear post-traumatic stress disorder, which is exactly what you would imagine, and then the other side of it, growth, do you have any... I mean, I've never really heard the second term, but I can 100% say that I wouldn't be the person I am today if I didn't go through those experiences. Okay, so, all right, let me see if I can pull on this string just a little bit. We're still talking about your journey, but I want to anchor it into like your psychological framework, right? I want to bridge this a little bit. What was the single most difficult thing that you've experienced in your life? And if you want to say, I don't want to answer that, that's totally fine. But I'm trying to get at like, what is the thing that you remember that was really challenging? I know exactly what it is.

And I know exactly what the greatest moment immediately because of that was. Yeah, this is right. You know, and it was, we'll get back to discussion real quick so just to get through the camp so we can get to that part when that happened which is coming up in like you know two years okay so we get we're at the camp seven months later um we we survived that camp we make it through with pretty much powdered milk and bread for seven months. The three of you? The three of us. And you guys were tight? Yeah, very tight. My brother took care of me. He was older than me.

So my dad again talked to one of the soldiers. What was happening a lot, soldiers were kidnapping people, getting them across, getting paid off and kind of doing like that. There was a bridge and a hospital on the other side. So if there was anything wrong, like externally,

they could just treat you there. So my mom told us to tell the EU workers that my brother had an eye ache and I had an ear ache. So they had to take us into the hospital, and my mom had to come with because we were too young. And when they read our names off, because a lot of families were doing that, when they read our names off, the people didn't want to let us through the gates like the other refugee camps because they'd been also sitting there trying to get their kids out there.

So I remember exactly. They called our names, and my mom's like, over here, we're right here. And then they call it again, and they're like their names and my mom's like over here we're right here and then they call it again and like they won't let me through and all the people in the front like we've been waiting here three months for this you know which is you completely understand and three soldiers come out and just start shooting guns into the air people like run out they grab me my mom and my brother bring us across the bridge into the hospital we're in the hospital how did you how did you jump the line how did you move do you know the soldiers brought us but your name was called and there was people there for three months um

bribery okay so this was like working angles and like okay yeah cool um so you mom had money parents yeah meaning that she had some cash in her pocket because dad did right dad worked the and like, okay, yeah, cool. So your mom had money? Parents, yeah. Meaning that she had some cash in her pocket? No, no. Because dad did, right? Dad worked the angles. My dad worked the angle from the other side. On the other side, okay.

He gave one of the soldiers the car that we drove into the camp with. Wow. He took a car. Yeah. Okay. So he took the car. It was a diesel Mercedes, a red one.

I remember it because we slept in it. We slept in the back because it was so big. It was a really old school Mercedes diesel, just so loud. So he worked the angle from the other side. Okay. And so we're in the hospital. Soldier grabs my mom and my brother, pulls us through the back of the hospital,

puts us in a car, and takes off. Seven months in, we're in this car. Stories are people are getting kidnapped. Soldier collects the money first. They want the money up front. Takes the wives, throws the kids out, rapes the women, shoots them, whatever happens. Comes back for another round.

Whoa. So this is where I think my mom, because I remember it was like a four-hour ride, and she never let go of her hands. Ever. She knew this going in. You didn't know this going know this i didn't know this she knew this going in you knew mom was really uber my brother told me this after uh when we

came came to the u.s okay i always ask what's what's wrong with mom all the time like why she's so like yeah you know and he said this is why i think it happened. And I never knew this until I was like 15 or 16 when we kind of grew up. What's this like talking about now in this conversation right now? I feel bad for her. Yeah. I really do. I mean, the amount of strength and fear and everything she endured to make that decision. Because there was no other decision.

It was either get through this or go back into the destroyed house. Okay, so let me make sure I'm getting this right. She knew that what would happen is when you got to the other side and you got into a car, that the bribery was paid off and that women were treated in the most deplorable way. And then the kids were sent. They just drop them off. Okay.

So it was like, she knew this, but she, it was the, it was the, the risk that she was willing to take for you and your brother. Okay. And then,

so remind me later when we get, when we keep going to talk about risk-taking. Yeah. And your relationship with risk-taking. That I'll come back to. So, we meet up with my dad in Split. We meet the soldier. My dad gives him another gift.

Okay. Guy takes off. And I remember the face of my mom when she met my dad. You saw that i i remember feeling it the the concern and like just like running to him like literally like we were walking like we were young you know like oh we're happy to see our dad but she just like ran and like just like grabbed him and i remember that that feeling and like and i i couldn't comprehend why she was so happy then but it was like we survived this crazy thing that most people like i took this risk and it it paid off and you know it was crazy i remember it as a seven-year-old

like that feeling of like why is she going, she's like running to him. I've never seen this. I mean, as you're talking about it, can you feel this? Yeah. Me too. I actually got the goosebumps a little bit. Yeah. Because I've never, I think this is the first time I've ever told anyone this.

Yeah. Because I've never, I rarely ever tell anyone my story. Thank you. Yeah. I've never, I rarely ever tell anyone my story. Thank you. Yeah, and the more like I think about it, and I feel like this, my experience could help people a lot. Yeah. When they put, just to put things into perspective, and we don't need to make it like seem like this crazy story that I've been to,

but I put myself in perspective as well. There's other people who I met who went through the same thing who had way worse outcomes. Like way worse. Like one of my buddies, his dad was murdered five feet right behind him

just because he was a Muslim man. And the kid slept with him for three days because he didn't want to give up his dad you know so and you know yes I had a pretty hard life and things I didn't want anyone to experience but like other people had way worse stuff right so that's the perspective we can kind of get from from other people that think that their life is somewhat difficult. Yeah, there's certainly that. You know, I need that. I think we all need that in our lives,

that the problems that most of us have are really small compared to what people have experienced real suffer and pain. Yeah. Not to minimize anyone's problems. Of course not. Because they feel big and real. It's an environmental thing. Yeah, yeah.

You're with the Housewives of Beverly Hills. Even us who are living these great lives. We live here in Hermosa and Manhattan. We have really good lives, and then we look at them and we laugh. Like the stuff they complain about. Yeah, right. So there's different tiers of putting stuff into perspective. Yeah, right. So there's different tiers of like putting stuff into perspective. Yeah, I hear that.

And, you know, when you're talking, when you were talking about your mom running to your dad, what was happening for me is that I was mad. I was conjuring up the passion of love, right? Like in that moment, like, and the anguish and the relief and the passion all embedded into that one moment. Yeah.

Yeah. And I'm wondering, here I am trying to pull on this thread too, like do you have, do you play with passion? Do you love with passion? Do you embrace life like with that thing that you, because you said, I saw my mom. Yeah.

And I don't know yet what you saw, but like do you play and live and love with this? So I live like that 100%. for me I love soccer no question about it but I love my life thousand times more right if I didn't have soccer I'd still be having the best life I could possibly have and that's the thing and you know and that's what that's what I want to learn from you yeah it's how do you how do you organize and design your life? Not right in this moment, but like, that's what I want to learn, right.

From what you've been through, from what you've seen and smelt and touched and taste and, and observed, like, how do you engineer your life to live the best version of it today? Yeah. And I think that that's, that's the, that's what I'm wanting to learn. Yeah. And I can't wait to get to that part of the conversation. So let's get through the path,

and then we can get back to some of the questions. And you can ask, we'll get into the details as it's happening. Okay. You can pick into it. So we're in split now. We got across the Croatian border, and we're still not clear. So a lot of the Croatian soldiers know that this is happening.

So they're out searching for us. Okay. And you're with dad now? We're with dad. Okay. It's not over. It's not over. We're hiding at our, she's my cousin, my dad's niece.

We're hiding in our apartment. It was just, it's summer started, so the kids were out. And, you know, we want to go out and play soccer as well. Excuse me. And, you know, we can't just sit inside a house the whole time. So, you know, you take that risk,

like, all right, let's go out and, you know, have them play. And I remember this exactly, decisions that parents have to make is i think one of another really hard decision for my parents was teaching us how to lie and i remember how different as a survival strategy as a survival strategy to tell the other kids you're from zadar you know a different town you're here visiting a friend and you know as a seven-year-old what we're not mom we're here from bosnia like you know and it was just like this is what you have to say buddy this is you know we'll go back as you know

as soon as just you know let's play a game where you're from here, you know. And I remember my dad wouldn't take part in it because it was so hard for him to do this, you know. And my mom, you know, we didn't have a choice. That's what we had to do if we wanted to go outside. Like, boys, if you guys want to go outside, this is what you have to tell your buddies. This is what you have to do. And that's what we did. So summer is about to pass. The kids just started going back into school,

and me and my brother are still there. People are wondering why we aren't going to school. So it's getting too hot. Then the landlord's coming in. I remember the landlord was coming in in and she pretty much caught us and i remember my mom saying like oh come on guys we're getting ready to go and i remember as a seven-year-old like okay this is why i need to lie got it this is why i'm like oh uh thanks guys for letting us stay we're going home bye you know like oh like we were just leaving the house she just walked in and we were there and we're like oh and i remember my parents starting the

conversation like thank you so much for having us you know it was we'll come back we'll come back soon again thank you and i just look over and i'm like all right i gotta i gotta do the same thing i know this is this is what they were talking about yeah. The importance of teaching and coaching ahead of the moment, right? Exactly. I remember understanding it right then, understanding why I had to do that. It was crazy. Yeah. Were you calm in that moment, or do you remember being freaked out?

Yeah, because my parents were so calm. It was crazy. They were? Mom and dad were grounded? Yeah, so grounded. My dad was just i mean he he's a hard guy he worked his whole life he took care of the whole family the whole village you know he was just cool and collective man and you said did you say they were accountants yeah yeah

so they so they were both educated in in bosnia yeah okay um and my dad was also a footballer, a soccer player. He was obviously loved by everyone. He was amateur or professional? He was professional there, but he wasn't anything like you'd think, like European soccer. He was like a small village.

He was the hero there. But he was still loved by everybody. Germany sets up housing we we'll get on a train we we get on a train and we head to hamburg and um we we it's middle of night we get there and someone was supposed to pick us up they never showed up so we're in this country we're in germany and it's late at night we have no idea where we're going and my dad has a little piece of paper in his pocket i remember and uh he pulls down a cab driver and um so to this point we have no idea that my dad can speak German.

Oh, he rips out. Really? He pulls out a thing and goes, he gives it to the cab. He says something, Guten Tag, geht's. I'm looking at my dad. All three of them, my mom, me, and my brother, we're just looking at them like, oh, my God. So we look at them, and he goes, yeah, this is eine kleine Straße, which means this is a little street because the guy didn't know where it was.

And we're just like, we're like amazed. I'm telling you, like, I remember this exactly. We were just literally like we couldn't believe it that he was talking German with this guy. Was dad like a hero at this moment? Yeah, we're like, how do you know this stuff? You know, it was crazy so we end up at this camp and um this was the refugee camp wait hold on did you find out how he learned did you ever ask him he took it in middle school high school or something okay he was either uh i think it was german r Russian, or like French maybe.

Yeah, and so it just happened to be. I was wondering if he like trained up for this because he knew he was going to the camps. I mean, it was crazy. I mean, by no means was he fluent, but he was good enough to say, this is where we're going. Can you help us? This is the camp. It's a small little street and we're going there so even that he could have said like one word we would have still been like amazed

so this is um 94 going to kind of 95 um late late summer we get into Germany. We get put in this government housing. I'll be seven and a half then. I think my brother was just turning nine years old. This is probably the hardest and most educational part of my life. I really believe those three and a half years there molded me into this person today what was it and you said what was remember I said we'll get back today yeah what was that the most difficult moment the most difficult moment for me by far was understanding the hurtful things that the kids were saying to me.

Oh. Because you're young, you're seven, and you're maturing very quickly. You just learn why you had to lie. And you get to this part and you think, okay, I escaped. We're out of the camps. I don't need to lie anymore. We're here. We're in this whole new thing that's going to be way better.

And you get there and you're just like, I want to go back. I'd rather be in the refugee camp with the same people that are suffering just like me. At least I can relate to all these people. They don't hate me for being a Bosnian because they're a Bosnian as well. But I'm at this camp don't hate me for being a bosnian because they're bosnian as well but i'm at this camp where people hate me they absolutely hate the immigrants were they german german and why were they in the camp um so the places surrounding the camp not inside not inside the camp but we still had to act like normal people they weren't going to keep us in a in a apartment you know we the

parents had to work you know we had to go to school it was a you know government setup program where they're going to try to do the best they can and for the refuge for the refugees so um i remember we get in and we have our own apartment. That's like super exciting. And we had like Coca-Cola in the fridge. And we had, you know, the clothing part was you could pick us off from like a mile away. Or they're the refugees, you know. Yeah, right.

It did not fit. And I remember we got there got there we settled in and we put the clothes on that they had set up for us there and we we go to this park was this like when you go to like you see kids or i've got a seven-year-old now when he goes to a hotel it's like just like like an unbelievable experience to jump on the bed exactly that type of thing it was that yeah it was like this is ours like right we can close that door behind us and yeah this is it yeah and we're like super excited obviously and then um i remember the very next day or something we we go to this park and there's a pond there and my mom immediately

gets a gets a camera she has has some leftover Deutsche Marks. And she goes by the camera. Because go back real quick. So at the camp, the people, we had to get out of the camp real quick. My mom, I said, what did she bring with her? I said, the photo albums. She forgot them on the windowsill. And that was like, she said, one of the biggest things. Heartbreaker things heartbreaker heartbreaking so as soon as she got in germany she got a

camera um we go to this place and like but you know we can run over that story but i think there's something that is really important to honor is that mom didn't get caught in that pain of losing the thing that she cherished. Right. It's still painful now, but she adapted and she said, okay, well I'm going to pull some money together and I'm going to create a new that's better.

Yeah. Right. Or at least I'm going to create a new, I got a great one for you for that one. Yeah. Right. So that's resiliency. Right.

So, so you were watching mom, you're watching dad be clever, dad be educated. You're watching dad figure the family out. Both grounded. watching dad be clever dad be educated you're watching dad figure the family out both grounded mom was demonstrating courage and risk taking and resiliency and so you're learning all of this as you're going and you know it's bad yeah right and it's like i don't there's a better word than bad i'm sure yeah but but and then and then there's this relief and you're still walking watching mom like make the best of that scenario yeah okay so there the way the program was set so we back to

the park we go to the park and i remember feeling like freedom for a second before we carry on normal lives going to school and all that hazingzing and all that. We'll get to that real quick. But I remember perfectly we're wearing these. It was starting to get cool a little bit. The summer was just finishing, and we're wearing these flower jackets. My mom dressed us as twins, even though he was 18 months older than me. We're wearing these floral jackets, green sweatpants, and some kind of shoes. And we get to this park park and there's ducks there and like feeding them bread and we're just like this is there's flowers you know it's not just dirt and

there's beautiful homes and houses and like this is amazing like we have to feed these ducks and see the water and walk on these gravel paths that were human made and like actually cut perfectly with the grass trim and everything we're just like you know we're like thinking this is like incredible we get back and then life starts they my parents they had different programs set up for different parents to you know you couldn't work for money you were just working for food stamps and um kids go to school you know same thing every day but i look back and i think like the courage for three and a half years just to work for food stamps and to feel like you're just a number in a in a different country and leave being one of the most popular people in your village and so well respected to pretty much a number that gets a stamp at the end of the day. I look back and I'm like, wow, I can't believe.

I don't know if I had the strength to do that, what my parents did. I honestly don't know. That is crazy. Are they your age now? Were they then your age that you are now? Yeah, so, yeah, that's crazy to even think that. I mean, my mom was, my brother was eight, so she was, yeah, she was 27. My mom was 27, my dad was 36. And you're 28. Yeah. Yeah. My mom was 27. My dad was 36.

And you're 28. Yeah. Yeah. So I've thought about this before as well. Like when I talk with my fiance once in a while, we talk about it. And she's like, I just can't imagine being your mom. Like I was her age. Like she's my age doing that.

Like I can't imagine um so um the defining moment we go back to that what changed me and why it made me stronger and um realizing what the kids were i picked up german first off in like six months i was fluent that was like the easiest thing ever which Of course it is. I was turning eight almost, you know, seven and a half, eight. And that was like a piece of cake. Wow, cool. Same for my brother. We were both young. We start school.

And, of course, we want to join a soccer team. And there's a local team we were in. And my brother was an amazing soccer player. I was terrible until I was like 17, but he was amazing. So nobody wanted these Bosnian refugees on their teams. So I remember my dad going to this one coach, and my dad's a decent soccer player. He knows how to play and proper technique and stuff. And he goes and asks this coach if my brother can join their team.

And the guy's like, no, go away. He goes to another coach and very friendly guy says, yeah. You can't say that Germans are mean because it's the people that are really mean so there's obviously people who are racist and they don't want to see it but there's also very welcoming people who helped pass this vote for this to happen so when i say uh germany was the worst part the most. It's the people that were doing those actions. They were racist and abusive to children. By no means do I mean all the Germans, terrible people, just so we're clear on that.

So we start playing soccer. And a very cheesy line that probably people say, that was the soccer field was the one place where you felt equal to all the other kids. So, but we're going to high school, that wasn't the case at all. There was, I mean, I'm telling you, for three years, I was fighting every single day after school. What kind of fighting? Like, I get jumped by like six kids, try to beat up one of the kids that was jumping me. And it's just funny that my dad would say this to his kids.

After the first like six months, we were getting our butts kicked all the time. Like, we'd come home like bloody nose or black eye, you know. And I remember my dad being mad at us. I was around close to eight years old. And I remember my dad being mad at us. Like, we just got beat up by some kids. And we come in, and my dad's, like, mad at us. And we're, like, hoping he'd come out there and, like, say something.

And I remember him being mad at us and i couldn't understand why and he goes you guys need to like fight together like find a way i can't help you here he's like i can't go out there and beat up on those kids it's like you guys need to find out a way to do it leave class early leave go to class early Like figure out a way that works. So my brother took it a further step. And your brother's nine at this age, right? Yeah. Okay. I can't wait.

He took it a further and he'd leave school early and follow the kids to see where they would split up. So they'd leave as a group and then they'd split into sixes, into twos, into ones, and we'd wait for them there where they split into two or three people. No way. So for the next two and a half years, we'd wait, we'd take turns waiting for each one of them, and we'd just,

it sounds terrible, eight, nine, ten, eleven-year-olds, we would just go at them. Really? Like you and your brother. Yeah. You're like, okay, you're by yourself. Yeah, you guys have done enough,

and we figured out the way we work. Was this your way of saying, you know, this is going to stop because we're going to be one step ahead? Yeah, but it never stopped. That kid just got older and older, and we had to get better and better. No kidding.

Because they asked their brothers to come and beat up these kids and ask them. So we were fighting kids that were like four or five, sometimes six years older than us. So we just had to make it. We figured out ways to. You're smiling as you're saying this. Because it's like a funny, it's like a funny memory. And it's actually like a great memory because. What did you learn from fighting?

Nothing. I mean I'll tell you like okay I don't have your story But it's the moment right before the fight that I've learned so much about the end because in that moment either you stand down Right you either you either stand down that that fear that you have or you run or you become small. But it's that moment right before that's really potent and powerful. Yeah. And I'm wondering if you have any relation. Yeah. To that experience. For six. The fight is the fight. Yeah. Right. Yeah. For six, seven months.

That's what I did that that moment. Yeah. Right before the thing I decided I'm either going to run. Yeah. Or I'm just going to let them do and hopefully it'll be quick yeah and sometimes running is the best option like that's not what i'm we're both saying the same thing it's like but there's you can avoid a fight avoid a fight yeah you're putting situation for six months there's no avoiding it okay right you just know like all right school is done hopefully it's not that bad today um and so once you make that thing like you know that how they say the big guys fall the hardest and that's what it was and that's exactly what we did we went both of us trade even if there was a group of four or five kids we take right away after the biggest guy no kidding

how does that impact your soccer game now uh it doesn't really um i i don't really relate my fighting to like me being aggressive as a soccer player. Like you said, it's that, it's the right decisions to do it. Okay. The confidence to know there's the risk of us not being able to beat up the old guy, older guy and all the other kids beating the crap out of us. That's right. Yeah. But it's that confidence knowing we have like three seconds to get to him.

Yep. Kick, you know, beat him up and scare the other kids. And that's the one thing you can kind of take away from on the soccer field is have the confidence to make that decision. Quick, quicker, make that decision. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised me the most is how much it actually helps regulate temperature. I tend to run warm at night and these sheets have helped me sleep cooler and more consistently, which has made a meaningful difference in how I show up the next day for myself, my family, and our team here at Finding Mastery.

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Have you ever heard that phrase? So I just learned it recently, but it's something that fighter pilots would use. O-O-D-A, OODA, observe, orientate, decide, and act. And if you can do that frame faster than other people, then there's an advantage. And it sounds like that's what you're doing. I guess I developed that without even knowing it. Of course, yeah, right.

So that you were observing, orientating, deciding, taking action and then doing that faster than anyone else. Being committed to it. Yeah, so... If you're not, you have to be. So speak to that. Teach us about commitment and conviction and maybe it's not from fighting as a 10-year-old

but I'm sure you were working it out at that point. Yeah. But as... We knew there wasn't... You couldn't fail in that part because... Well, you couldn't fail in commitment or conviction. Both of them. When you make that decision,

100% you have to be committed to going after that kid. And I know why we keep smiling at each other. I know. I just think it's funny that these. But I think we all have that moment. Yeah. You think it's funny because we're talking about 10-year-olds.

Yeah, exactly. But this is you working out you. Yeah. Right? And now as a grown man, you understand deeply because you've lived it and it's authentic that I know what it feels like. I've worked it out to make a commitment and go for it. Even in the face of fear.

Like there's no, I would imagine unless you're sadistic or like sociopath that you, which I don't, hopefully that's not me. Yeah. That, um, that,

that commitment, there's some fear involved and there's some, there's some stuff involved. But something in a way, the fear drove me a little bit. Right there's an activation to it yeah you know gave you gave you the adrenaline the stuff and sometimes that's fear driven but after a while that fear just turns into confidence right yeah because you know how to operate you know with an activated activated state yeah yeah it's like, you know, when they talk about

an experienced soccer player and an experienced athlete, he's done it so many times that he knows the outcome. There's a knowing. Yeah. He knows, he's done it so many times

that it's just, you feel calm in it. Why do you think the greatest soccer player goal scorers get paid millions of dollars why do they ask them to take like a 90 minute penalty kick they've done it this is this is nothing for that had more frames they've seen it more they've smelt it they've seen it at a higher level there's been fear when they were younger and this is what's you know it gets me crazy about what we're doing to this generation of kids hovering you know we're putting cushions under them when they fall you know and and like

you can't develop a resiliency and courage until you go through some difficulty that's a whole another conversation when it comes to like yeah that generations coming in and like you know to some degree how some people are raising kids and what they don't want them to fail they don't everything it's just like you said a nice pillow underneath and if they fall they can just roll off the pillow and get do it again no and you know okay so what gift would you want to know give to the next generation what would you what do you hope that they get right is maybe a better question i think the appreciation of of material has skyrocketed

the appreciation oh it's too it's too materialistic Too materialistic. They care more about the PS4 now, right? Xbox. PS4 than developing a great friendship with somebody. We've become so materialistic with our lives. And that's what we tend to appreciate is what someone has. Oh, let's go to Joe's. He's got a sick pool. And their parents have money.

They'll buy a bunch of pizza. And it's not like, hey, let's go to Jeff's to his little one-bedroom cottage. His parents are so much fun. We can all just sit there and have a great story time or talk about it and hang out. I think that that's a brilliant perspective. In the previous podcast, the person that I was fortunate enough to talk to, his name is Coach Karch Karai. He's the winningest player ever in beach and indoor volleyball. He's considered the best that ever played the game of volleyball

from a male perspective and um no that's not the right way to say as a male yeah and so what so his dad needed to leave the country and flee under duress as well and so when when um Karch's experience about like what are the gems and nuggets to pass on to the next generation where we're talking about it he says I was he said I was fortunate to grow up in a time when I spent most of my experience outside and so outside was really about you know relationships and having fun and learning stuff and being in nature and it was less about the mechanical stuff that's inside. And so there's something about maybe the thread between both of your lives about leaving a country of origin, spending time outside,

and your stories are very different, but there's something really cool in the thread here. Yeah. How are you doing on time real quick? I'm good. Are you? Yeah. Okay, perfect. I got nothing. I want to'm good. Are you? Yeah. Okay. Perfect. I know this. I got nothing. I want to go back. This is actually exciting.

I've never talked about this in this depth with anyone really. So my mind is wandering in all these different directions. Some of the questions you asked me earlier that I want to answer and we get a little lost on the way. You said what defines you or what was that well I asked what was the single most difficult moment and then I also wanted to talk about your relationship to risk

taking yeah so the first one because of understanding that the fighting hurt physically you got bruises, but the hardest part was the emotional.

You know, the emotional hurt was way worse. And when I, you said master, what I define as mastery, and I look back and I always, always think about, you know, Bruce Serena asked me. We were sitting one morning. We both got up early. We were at breakfast.

And he's like, what? The legendary coach. Bruce Serena from LA Galaxy, national team. And he asked me, you know, what is it? How are you able to succeed with all odds against you? Yeah. You know, like how? And I said, which is the answer to my mastery, I guess, if you want to say it that.

Meaning what is your thoughts around mastery? I'm able to balance my emotions so well. I mean, that's one thing that I know I can control. There's no, there's nothing, there's absolutely nothing you can tell me

that'll throw me off my balance or off my emotions. And that can lead to, from sports, I mean, the trash talking, the, you know, a guy playing over you, a guy, you take another guy's position you know having that balance of of emotion is my definition of a mastery

that's this so okay let me see if i can put it in some my words really quickly a master is somebody who has deep control or can harness their emotions yeah and he can understand them he can understand when they're when they're leaning one way or leaning the other way because with emotions you can emotions can also lead you to be uh from a confident person to a cocky person you have to be able to find that to find that balance and also appreciate respect other people's emotions when you tend to lean into that cocky area because then their view of you is changing right okay so it's more than emotional intelligence a master is somebody who has command over the inner experience exactly is that yeah is that how yeah that's the way I would do it. And I look back and I don't think I knew that I mastered it at that young.

But I think about my childhood and why am I always happy and why do I rarely get mad? My fiance sometimes says, you never get mad. You never get mad like my fiance sometimes sounds like you never get mad you know you never get mad about anything and I said and I started laughing and say what what am I supposed to get mad about I'm here you know I'm yeah whatever say someone hit her car when we were apart I can't control that there's nothing i can do about it but i'll write a police report and we followed the procedure of doing that but i can't get mad over that do you know what i mean like you're really clear about the things you can

and cannot control can you articulate with clarity what it is that was is 100 under your control um my it is that is 100% under your control? My, because of the way I can control my emotions, I feel like with emotions you can control many other things. You can control your happiness. You can control your confidence. You can control your discipline. You can control a lot of things that people in sports

talk about that they define themselves differently from other people why they're a professional athlete and then for those folks that haven't gone through the challenges at a young age that you face down and experienced how do you develop what would you think is the way to develop emotional capacity to handle emotions to manage them to be fluid with emotions. Is there a particular practice that? Well, I think as a, and I'm not a parent, so I'm not saying I'm 100% sure. But I think sometimes it's good to let your,

even if it's really hard for you, like my dad allowed us to get our butts kicked, but he gave us, he let us do it to learn it ourselves. Even though it was probably really painful for him to say, guys, I can't help you. I can't do anything about it. My kids are getting beat up every single day, but I can't do anything about it. But he gave us that confidence to do it, and he knew that it was going to take a long time. But I'd

say let him fail I'm not saying let him hit rock bottom where they end up in a jail cell and their whole life is ruined but let him let him feel a little bit even for coaches like encourage encourage athletes or musicians like encourage whatever the performer is whether you know get to the edge experience the edge bang your head a few times, maybe not literally, but feel what that feels like because that's where you start to work out some sense of... Yeah. And then in reality, feel what it's almost to be rock bottom times that by a thousand. Put it into perspective.

You're rock bottom right now. For someone else, that could be the greatest life ever that they could just reach that part right there. You know, like, so you can just keep going to these different perspectives of how people could think.

And when you can kind of get down to like the really basic stuff of how people could relate to a tough situation, I feel like anybody could overcome anything do you know i mean like just having to know that like there's no reason like anyone should ever be

like um down on themselves for failing or down on themselves for not um uh scoring a goal or you know doing something that they failed at take that failure you can take that failure and you can turn it into like a cool learning experience how do you do that how do you personally do that well i think because i think you've got a model where failure is not that important to you it's not at all i think them i think your model actually allows you to take a shot yeah you know to let it rip. To know that missing a goal or not missing a goal, whatever it might be, is not as big a deal because of all the other things you've experienced. But how would you

help people understand how you manage or deal with loss or mistake or failure? So loss or failure meaning failure. Well, so you, loss or failure, meaning like you're in a work environment or you're in like a soccer team? Wherever you would take us, yeah. Okay, so say you're working for a marketing firm. Okay.

And it's one of the most successful firms out there and you get hired by your boss to be marketing. Yeah, you've got a chief accountant now. Yeah, so you're doing your thing, and you go up to your boss, and you say, Hey, boss, I have an idea for this marketing thing. And you try it, and it's a complete failure. And you're feeling nervous your confidence is getting low and you go up to him again and say i don't know if i want to say this again but boss i have

another great idea i think this would be awesome and you do it and again you totally mess it up it's a failure and right you're you know you're really sinking. Your confidence is sinking. And third time you go up to him and you say, boss, I have this great idea. Again, the boss is like, okay. And boom, you hit it big. I mean, the company gets put on all of the newspapers. You really hit the top okay um having that knowledge to know that you have a great leader that the boss he hired you because he know you probably fail a few times but he knows you're creative and when you hit it big you're gonna hit it big that's a really cool coaching

moment yeah right to really believe exactly people. And that's what Bruce Arena does unbelievably. Oh, you feel that from him? 100%. Yeah. Can you keep talking about how you know he believes that you have something special? Well, with Bruce, the way he recruits players is obviously somewhat based on talent, but he also recruits people who are good people. Okay. This is really important because so many people that will be listening to this are not professional athletes, but they're in a relationship where they're either coaching people that are in their business or they've got direct reports or maybe they have a boss, right?

Yeah. So if we can snap into how you've experienced this compelling relationship. Last year, I joined the team and I played every single game. About 10, 11 games in, I have a great relationship with Bruce. He makes fun of me. I make fun of him. It's very laid back. But when it's down to business, it's business. That's funny. We have a great relationship with Bruce. He makes fun of me. I make fun of him. It's very laid back. But when it's down to business, it's business.

That's funny. We have a great relationship, and I make fun of him, and he makes fun of me. The way he manages is really great. So from me experiencing certain things, I'm able to really appreciate the opportunity that I'm given. And when the coach understands that you're not taking for granted this starting position because there's many other guys who want to be there and thousands of other people who want to be in your place. So when you appreciate it and you give it your all and the coach sees that and all good coaches see that no matter what name you have in the back of your jersey

if you're a hard-working player and you sacrifice for the team you make runs that never make a highlight highlight video good coaches see that and they tell you hey you're doing great you're you're in a rut right now but you're fine you're doing you're doing great. You're in a rut right now, but you're fine. You're doing good. You know what I hear in here is that first there's a relationship. So we talk about relationship-based coaching. And first there's a relationship and there's a foundation there where you understand him and he understands you.

And that doesn't happen easily. No. That takes time and conversations and that gets water confidence. Confidence. Yes. And then the second part is gratitude. Yeah. Like you being grateful and him being grateful and recognizing that relationship. And then the third is trust. Yeah. Right. Him trusting you even when it doesn't work out because you've demonstrated over and over again that you'll do the gritty work. Yeah. So we,

we actually talk a lot about in business, this is something I've learned deeply from my experience with the Seattle Seahawks, is the value of a relationship, the value of optimism, the value of grit, and the value of basically gratitude. And you're hitting all of those, right, in your experience here with the Galaxy as well. Yeah. And with your coach. Okay.

Um, in a word, if there was just one word that cut to the center of what you understand most in life, what would that word be? Life. Yeah. I mean,

Oh, is that the word? Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, I didn't even actually think about it when we exchanged emails on that one.

But I just came in here and I wanted it to be authentic. Right. So when I came in, I just didn't think about it. And I was just going to completely forgot about it the whole time. And, yeah, it's life, man. And so what would be the one word that cuts to the center of who you are? I'm stable. I'm happy.

I don't get super excited about scoring a goal. Yes, I'm really, really happy. I don't get super sad if i'm not starting i'm there to support my teammates i'm um i'm if i'm getting an argument with my fiance and you know i made a bad decision or i i was wrong you have to uh admit to what you've done and accept the fact that you're not right. And make sure that you're well balanced with everything, with all the emotions in your life and with all the things that peel off the emotions, confidence, discipline, affection.

You can go on and on about it, but be stable in it. That's beautiful. And I don't think I gave enough time to water this idea of life. When you say you understand life more than everything else, what do you mean by that? I mean understanding the important things in life. You understand that you're alive. you have a roof over your head you have food to eat when you get hungry and if you get thirsty you can turn the sink on or go in the fridge and drink some water and a lot of people don't have that and these are the basic things to living is being able to provide

uh to be able to eat drink water uh sleep well underneath the roof not get rained on you're not in danger you're not gonna get shot or something you know you're what a powerful reminder yeah of like how Yeah, we have it. I mean, in America in general, it just has it so good. And we don't need to talk about how good it is being close to the beach or having the mountains in your background. You know, like that's the simple part of life is just having the basic stuff. And the basic things should make that's

what should make you happy really i mean you're alive and you have people that care about you you have friendships that that you've developed over the years you have um you know you love someone you love people and not a lot of people can do that you have you have an obvious gratitude towards life and do you do you have any sort of mindfulness practice or a meditation practice that keeps you connected to you being you um yeah i do i mean i talked about earlier about the environment affecting you. And I'm guilty as well. You know, there are times where I'll catch myself letting my emotions go off in one end.

And, you know, it's almost like a guilt in a sense where I'm like, why am I letting this thing affect me right now? Are you serious? And it's like a conversation in my head. Like, are you serious? So that's how you're mindful is like when you're off. Yeah, when I'm off and I catch myself right away. Yeah, so it's not like a meditation practice or quieting down. It's like a general thing that you go through with an awareness of how you want to be you. Yeah. And I, what I tend to, like when I, when I think I've made a bad decision or if I think

I've hurt someone's feelings or I've done something, I have no problem being, saying sorry and admitting whatever I've done right away. Because if I don't, I know in the back of my head that that's laying me, it's throwing me off my balance. And I get it out as soon as I can. If I ever have an argument with my fiance and I feel like I've done something wrong or I have to right away immediately and you get it out there and, you know, and then you're back to your, to your normal self. So speaking of like relationships and sport intertwining the two and pulling on that thread of risk-taking, I think you've answered it.

But what is your relationship with risk-taking? Learning from mom and dad and your experiences and great coaches. Can you share and teach us about risk-taking? Yeah. I think when I was younger, a lot of the risks I took were from fear. And that slowly led into a confidence thing. But that part is just with the fighting part. And then it led, you know, you can talk about that leads into a normal life so if you go onto the soccer field um that's part of sports is

taking risks and um it's going to fail or it won't and being able to um measure measure the the risk so calculating the risk in your head hey is, is this worth it right now? I've just lost three balls in a row. This risk is pretty high. I need to make a simple pass right now. I need to get back. You make three mistakes, your confidence gets a little bit lower. Reboot it. Make a simple pass. Make another 10-yard pass. get it up to where you're in your comfort zone so you're doing an analysis all the time of risk reward, risk reward and it's not about

you looking bad, it's about am I moving in the direction of success so I've lost three balls in a row, we just had a counter we all sprinted back and my teammate if I lose this ball again, we're going to have to run again. So the risk is too high.

Got it. You play a simple ball backwards, rotate the ball around, let us catch our breath, and then we can start again. And to have this analysis take place, you need to have access to your thinking mind. You're not overrun by emotions. Yeah. So oftentimes when people are nervous or scared or overwhelmed emotionally, that they lose access to their thinking mind. Yeah.

And so if you've got, you first built capacity for your emotional, um, set your emotional part of who you are. It sounds like you're able to really calculate and think. Yeah, I'm never very phased by many things. Yeah, I can tell. You know, like, this is a game.

If you lose, then maybe, you know, yes, losing sucks and we don't want to lose, but you just lost the game. That's really, that's so powerful. Literally, that's what you lost. You lost a game and then next week you have a chance to make up for your poor performance or whatever it may be. Okay.

So out of all the mental, and if we snap into mental skills and mindset a little bit, of all the mental skills, such as generating confidence or generating calm or being deeply focused in the moment or having a deep sense of performance imagery as a skill or even a pre-performance routine what what are what are the most important for you on the mental skills confidence calm focus letting go of mistakes yeah i think the dwelling part i think a lot of athletes could relate to. If you made a mistake five minutes ago and put in the same situation, and there comes that battle in your head, should I do this? I just messed it up before. So it's not like we're sitting here and I have all this time, just you and I explain to you what's going on in my head it's like a millisecond like do it real real quick in your head am i gonna do this or okay i made that mistake how quickly does that get out

of your head and have you held back in any part of the conversation because it doesn't feel like it it feels like you've been yeah no i mean this is no i i don't think i've held back yeah it doesn't it seems like whatever's happening that millisecond thing that you're talking about that you're choosing to i'm not getting in trouble for anything i say here you know i mean like i could say whatever i feel in my in my head and you know some people might agree some people don't but that's the beautiful thing about you know us doing this thing you know, some people might agree, some people don't, but that's the beautiful thing about, you know, us doing this thing. You know, some people could learn from it and relate to it and some don't. And, you know, hopefully some people do.

Yeah, that's exactly it. So is it confidence? Is that what you're coming back to for the basic mental skills of calm, confidence, focus? Yeah, I think being confident and not in a sense of like I talked about earlier like being too confident. Most athletes are very confident and some are right on the borderline. Those are the good athletes. Between confident and cocky. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, because with cocky, you're taking a big risk. You're like, oh, I can do this play. I'll ping a ball from like 40 yards out. But then there's a confident one. You're 20 yards out and you're like, I've done can do this play. I'll ping a ball from like 40 yards out. But then there's a confident one. You're 20 yards out and you're like, I've done this like 20 times in training, five times a week, every day. I know I can bend this ball around and do it.

That's where I think when you're very confident, you're more mentally stable to make the right decision. Do you have a way that you train confidence um or enhance it with with sports you train confidence by repetition and the more you pass a ball if the inside of your foot and bend around the corner the more natural it's going to come to you and the more confident you know all right i've done this so many times and I'll do it again now. It doesn't matter how big the stage is, you've done it. What about this idea that if you practice, practice, practice, and you can bend it, bend it, bend it, and it becomes mechanical.

And then at some point you start to question yourself or one doesn't go the way you thought it would go. And there's that inner dialogue and inner chatter. My understanding of confidence is that doing the work is necessary so that you can have a credible voice within yourself. And the way I've understood confidence in myself, and it's not necessarily research-based, but is that confidence comes from what I say to myself. And it sounds like you've got a deep awareness. Oh, hold on.

But you've got to be able to it's got to be based in reality so you have to do the work of knowing that from 20 you can bend it and put it in the corner or whatever but but you have to be able to have this credible inner dialogue with yourself yeah and are you would you nod your head to yes it's the dialogue and the reality that you know how to do something. Yeah. It's definitely a combination of both. Is it?

Yeah. Yeah. And I think one, you know, works off of each other. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

So it's like if one's high and one's low, you can still do it. Yes. That's the thing. But awareness of both. Yeah. Yeah. This is where I found such great, um, and such a great accelerant to developing confidence is having a sense of awareness of my inner dialogue. What do you, what do you think is being overconfident? What does it look like to me?

Yeah. Yeah. So overconfident, I use the same word like cocky and sloppy. Yeah. So overconfident to me looks, let me say what it sounds like. Okay. In my head, it sounds almost the same as confidence, which is, you know what? I can get some stuff done here now. Let's go. But I have to show the world that. And that's cocky. Yeah.

Right. So confidence is, I might say the same stuff to myself, which is, hey, listen, I'm on this thing. Get me the rock. Let's go. Yeah. But I don't have to tell that or show that or, or be expressive with it. It's just, it, it just happens. Yeah. Right. So it's the, for me, it's the focus. Am I trying to show other people that I'm something special or am I being connected to myself and, and the former, yeah, being cocky and what i just described being

confident yeah that's funny you say that because i 100 agree and i i'd also add if someone's cocky or overconfident there's a sense of something unbalanced in a different aspect that he has to really show everybody yeah yeah i like it yeah i know what you're talking about like there's more doubt than than he's letting on exactly right yeah i mean like yeah everyone in the world needs to see this so you know but for a confident person he just feels good that he knows he can do this and he'll do it and he doesn't care if 70 000 people see it or if just his coach had a training or he did it himself.

Right. And I think it's the connection to the inner experience that is what you, myself, and maybe some are working for in that confident frame. Okay, cool. So how about this? Let's see if you can just riff off these for a little bit, right? And it can be long or short, whatever, but I'm just going to say quick little statements and see if you can, like I call them quick hits.

Okay. Pressure comes from? Fear. Fear of what? Failing. Okay. It all comes down to? That's the question?

Yeah, yeah. It all comes down to? You yeah okay the crossroad for me was finding balance was there a particular crossroad that you had to choose between a balanced a balanced approach and an unbalanced approach? Yes. Was there a moment in time? Yeah. Yeah.

It was right when I signed up as a pro. I thought I was a hot shot. Keep going, yeah. And I had to regroup myself, and it took me a long time, and my fiance was a big part of it. She reminded you that you're not all that it's hard to be a young athlete with more money than what you're used to and whatever sport you played the fame it's difficult and it took me a while to collect myself and say, you're not this at all.

Go back to what you love doing and who you are. It's amazing, the seduction of fame and the seduction of money and attention. It's incredible. It is incredible. It's sneaky. Yeah.

I think we could have another entire podcast around that oh my goodness you could yeah for sure do it yeah no i'm talking about you and me oh yeah just that yeah okay how we keep going um success is um welcoming love that never heard that love love flow swagger relationships most important I thought you'd say that yeah yeah I had a sense that you'd say something close to that guess I'm doing a pretty good job explaining my life a little bit yeah no you I think you're a great storyteller, but you've brought it to life in an authentic way. One of the phrases I use to help guide my life is that through relationships, we become.

Through relationships with... I'm a spiritual man first, so through relationships with God, through relationships with myself, through relationships with other people, through relationships with nature. And so it's the relationships that is where all of this happens for me. That's cool.

I have somewhat similar, because a lot of the way I try to be is knowing what my parents had to go through. And I've said this before it was something like it makes it makes the suffering worthwhile if i'm able to change people's lives so yeah my parents because your parents oh i think my hair's standing up right now. Yeah, go, go, go. They suffered so much. But I know right now, like when I'm playing and they're so proud of me and they're so happy that they went into this crazy direction.

And I know their suffering paid off to see my brother and I be successful and transform our lives. And you want to be able to pass that forward. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah, that is epic. It's real, isn't it?

Yeah. Oh, my hair stands up. That's how I kind of try to look at it a little bit because that's what they did, man. My parents are a lot of everything that I kind of, when I try to think, I remember this is what they did for us, man. We got to, I got to do, be a good person. I got to help people if I can. I got to, you know, really, I want people to glue themselves to me because I'm a good person. I want people to mirror themselves off me because I'm a good person.

You know what I mean? If someone's a good person, you want to be around that good person. Got it, okay. You know what I mean? At your center, you're like, I know this to be true. Yeah, because I know I have such great friends.

And some people make fun of me. They tell me to cut down some branches. Because everywhere I go, I got like three or four buddies. And I'm like, how do you? It's time to cut off some branches. I'm like, I can't. These are all my buddies that I've kept in touch with. And relationships matter to you.

Relationships that matter to me. And I know for a fact when i'm on my deathbed the one thing i'm gonna wish for is for all my friends to be there oh yeah do you know i mean like if you think of it like that like there's no relationship worth cutting off because it's every relationship is fixable you can benefit off any relationship you have even if it's a really crappy one you can gain something positive out of it you know what i'm saying you've got wisdom brother yeah it's good okay so um last question because you've answered so many in here and this is really the last question um is you know how would you finish this statement, I am?

I am living, I'm loving, and I'm loved. And I know loved. And I know that. You know, it's a, love is crazy powerful and when you love someone and they love you back, it's a, it's a really cool feeling when it's right.

Because love, love can go wrong in so many different ways and pull you to do crazy stuff. But when it's balanced and you know, and you know it's balanced, then it feels pretty good. You feel that even as you're speaking about it now? Yeah. Yeah, I do, man.

It's like a big smile on my face because I just love my life and I love the people in it. And I know they love me 100 and um you know that's that's something we could pass on to any listener to listen to this that you know there's a good and bad way to love that's brilliant you know um and i want to thank you for being all of you in this conversation and allowing the emotions to come forward and share. I got it. Before we cut off, I got to finish something. I got it. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. So we're in Germany. We leave. We get it. We're getting on a train. I wanted to get in this. I just forgot. It's a really cool little story how my parents changed this woman's life that they've never met.

Was this the most difficult part that led to the most amazing part? No, the most amazing part was realizing when I was emotionally stable and when someone would say something to me and I would laugh. And they did not respond because that carried into my time because my U.S. time wasn't easy either. I grew up, we were in the projects, we were in government housing. There was same stuff that was happening in Germany for the first two or three years and that didn't bother me whatsoever. And I realized that's nothing.

It was nothing. You can say whatever you want. I don't care. I'm happy and I'm i know my life is getting is getting better and better and and that's exactly what happened but back to germany we're leaving we we want a visa to come to chicago so we're like you know america that's like the greatest thing ever we're we're getting we got it we're getting on a train we're taking a train to Frankfurt to get into the airport and we're on a train

and it's hot so it's my mom, my dad, my brother and two older couple who I don't know if they were but they weren't happy that we were in the train with them so it's boiling in there my dad pops the window open a little bit lady starts screaming at him close the window he

closes the window another hour same thing we're like sweating we there's a woman stopped before the thing they get out and a younger woman, I'd say maybe my mom's age, late 20s, maybe early 30s. And brunette woman, I remember her perfectly. And she just looked in distress and just very uncomfortable. And we're quiet for a little bit and she kind of looks over at us. And we have two suitcases and two backpacks. Me and my brother have backpacks. I'm wearing a full-out Adidas kit because if you're wearing Adidas,

you're balling. You know, you think you're – that was prime. Full-out Adidas kit and a 49ers backwards hat to seem American. That's what I wanted. Okay. hat to to seem american that's what i wanted okay so we're on the we're on the train and the the lady looks over after like an hour or so and she goes oh are you guys going on vacation we're like no you know we're quiet like we don't want to disturb any like you know i don't know if she wanted to have a conversation five minutes later she's like so where are you guys going we're like america

and like so proud like just america you know and um that's why i love this country we're like america she's like okay she's like on vacation we're like you know obviously we said no she's like so you just you're going to america we're like yeah we're moving to america and she like couldn't comprehend the fact that we were just a father and a mother and their two kids two suitcases just moving to america and she couldn't comprehend it and i remember she after like two or three minutes she's like starts sobbing and like crying and she's like i my life has been so bad and so hard and daddy you know she goes on and on but if you if you two with two little kids can grab two suitcases and two backpacks and move to

america and start a new life I'm doing the same exact thing. No way. And I remember this exactly. She's like, I'm going to start a new life. What a gift. Yeah. I'm going to start a new life. And I've told this story a few times. And she's like, yeah, I'm starting a new life.

And I think my parents exchanged an email with her. I want to ask her. I've been meaning to, but I just don't want to bring up things from the past. Right, right. But I really want to know if they've kept in touch with this lady. Phenomenal. Yeah. It makes me wonder if the conviction that you said, America.

100%. Right, like how much that might have influenced this woman. Yeah, because it was like a proud smile. Like, America, we're decked out in Adidas, 49ers hat. I forget what my brother was wearing. I love it. But, yeah. This thing is so good.

Those moments, right? I had to tell you that story before we finished up. But I thought that was a cool story that my parents' confidence and stuff hopefully transformed this lady's life into something better because she looked pretty broken. You and your family represent conviction and struggle and fight and elegance

and grace and caring. And what a gift. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you. Yeah, of course, man. Yeah, and man, we've gone long, Yeah. Yeah. So thank you. Yeah, of course, man. Yeah. And man, we've gone long,

but I could keep going with you, but maybe can we do this again? Yeah, sure. I want to fill you in on getting into the US. There's some funny, hard stories in there too. Yeah. Okay.

That would be great. Okay. So for right now, where can people find you? Like social media, not your home address. I know you're an open person. They can usually find me on the beach in Manhattan. Seriously.

I'm there almost every single day. Oh, that's good, yeah. I get out in front of like 34th, 32nd is where you'll find me surfing. I'm down on 9th. 9th, okay, perfect. Social media, I'm not a ninth ninth okay perfect other than that social media I'm not a social media guy I have an Instagram filled with dog pictures

and cat pictures I love it if there's dog and cat it's BA66IO like Baggio but the G's are sixes

okay and that's the same thing for my Twitter for all my 300 followers out there perfect okay so here's what we can do if you enjoyed this And that's the same thing for my Twitter, for all my 300 followers out there. Perfect. Okay, so here's what we can do.

If you enjoyed this, which I hope that folks enjoy it as much as I have, there's a couple things as we're getting this started. Go to findingmastery.net, and you can get all the information on how to download this on iTunes and SoundCloud. And then what I've also learned, that if you can help us out by just hitting the Like button and adding comments, it helps us tremendously. And then throw some social media questions to Baggio. Send some pictures of how you're celebrating your life,

you know, going forward to him. That'd be fun, right? That'd be cool. Yeah, for sure. And then hit me at Michael Gervais, G-E-R-V-A-I-S. And then this me at, um, at Michael Gervais, G E R V A I S. And then this podcast is also can be found on facebook.com forward slash forward. What is this? Slash slash finding mastery. And then, um, you know, what we'll do is we'll get all the show notes and stuff up. Uh, and so there'll be a little transcription. You should have them out, write to you what their definition of mastery is that'd be cool to see what people's perspectives

are in mastery 100 okay so if you like both of us yeah if if you're compelled and i hope you are to um at at michael gervais and at baggio with two sixes yes um. You know, send us your definition of mastery. And then let's have a conversation about that. Yeah, that'd be really cool. That'd be really cool. Okay, perfect. So thank you so much again. Yeah, that was awesome, dude.

I'm glad I got to kind of vent to you a little bit. That's epic, epic. All right. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're

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