Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Becoming Unbreakable - The Fight Against Anxiety and Depression | Jay Glazer

Episode Date: April 13, 2022

This week’s conversation is with Jay Glazer, best known as a National Football League insider and TV host for FOX Sports’ award-winning NFL pregame studio show, FOX NFL Sunday. The entire cast, including Jay, became the first sports show inducted into the Television Hall Of Fame in 2019. He is also part of FOX’s Thursday Night Football. Jay was one of the first ever minute by minute breaking online news reporters in the NFL. In 2014, he co-founded the Unbreakable Performance Center, a private training facility frequented by Wiz Khalifa, Chris Pratt, and Demi Lovato, as well as numerous NFL, NHL and MMA athletes.And in 2015, Jay and former U.S. Army Green Beret Nate Boyer (a previous Finding Mastery guest) founded the charitable organization MVP (Merging Vets and Players) to assist combat veterans and former professional athletes, who often faced a tough road adjusting to civilian life. Jay has a new book out called Unbreakable, where he offers insights gleaned from his fight through depression and anxiety. It’s a relentless, unapologetic, and no-nonsense approach to overcoming self-doubts, fears, and getting to the truth - and that sets the tone for this conversation._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David D-A-V-I-D protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. Okay. This week's conversation is with Jay Glazer. Jay is a truth teller. He's best known as a National Football League insider, where he's in the know as a trusted confidant and a TV host. And he straddled those two lines brilliantly. And he's a TV host for Fox Sports Award winning NFL pregame studio show called Fox NFL Sunday. The entire cast, including Jay, became the first sports show included into the Television Hall of Fame in 2019. And so Jay was one of the first ever minute-by-minute breaking online news reporters in the NFL. And the currency that he has is the

relationships with people inside the buildings, inside of the NFL franchises. So he's, again, he's trusted and he's part of that inner community. And then he's so trusted that they know that he's going to talk about particular parts of the information flow on TV. And so there's a delicate balance there because he knows far more than he shares and he shares when appropriate. So this is a fascinating conversation about truth. And more importantly, it's about Jay's truth and the process that he led to get to that. And that's not easy for anyone. Those miles traveled are hard earned. So Jay documented all this in his new book called Unbreakable, where he offers

his insights that he gleaned from his fight with depression and anxiety. It is a relentless and unapologetic, no-nonsense approach to working with self-doubt and fears. And that sets the tone for this conversation. And just a little bit more context jay is deeply entrenched in the mixed martial arts professional athlete world and military so in 2007 he created one of the first mixed martial arts training programs for pro athletes in the united states and he's trained over 1 000 pro athletes and then in 2014 he co-founded the Unbreakable Performance Center. And this is a private training facility that, you know, like Wiz Khalifa shows up and Chris Pratt shows up and Demi Lovato shows up and like numerous NFL and NHL and MMA athletes. It's a brilliant space that

he's created. And in 2015, Jay and former U.S. Army Green Beret, Nate Boyer, you might recognize his name because he was a previous guest on Finding Mastery. And then he and I were teammates also up at the Seattle Seahawks. So the two of them, they founded the charitable organization MVP, Merging Vets and Players, to assist combat vets and professional athletes who are in the transition phase, who are, you know, facing a tough road of adjusting to civilian life. So this conversation, like, like I said, it's about getting to the truth and it's about working with that, which is true for you. And with that, let's get right into this week's conversation with Jay Glazer. Jay, how are you? Good brother. How are you?? I'm doing great now that I get to hang with you. I know. It's so good to see you. I mean, we've known each other for years, and then you drop

a dime on the world amongst your friends, amongst your colleagues, and you drop the dime that you haven't been well. So can we we start there let's define well it's the only life i know yeah let's define that you know i have to make it well but i have to make my lot of curse on here or not no yeah we're adults okay i've got to make my fucked upness where it works for me where i'm proud of it and where it it lifts me and not, it doesn't keep me down. So yeah, there's, there's a lot of definitions of well there. I am, I'll correct and say, I drop a dime and let people know that I've been in pain my whole life. Y'all have known I've been crazy, but no one knew how much pain I was in. So this is the part, this is why I wanted to have a conversation with you because you're an alpha male. You understand the language.

You understand the DNA of competitive environments. It's the currency of trust that you work from. And people like, you know, like you somehow you never let on that you're a struggle. So this is, I want to understand this because you were presenting like life is pretty good and I'm kind of screwed up, but you know, like that, aren't we all? And then that's a badge of honor in football and fighting being crazy. Yeah, it is. And, and

you also had the other part of you, which was like, Hey, I really want to help people come to find out you needed the help just like me, you know, I needed the help, just like me. I needed the help. But just tell me about the suffering that you were experiencing, the pain that you were done with keeping private. My earliest childhood memory is depression and anxiety. I don't know how to live life any other way. And it sucks. It sucks. Every single day of my life, I wake up feeling unworthy of being loved.

The sky is falling. Really guilty about the bad that I've done, if you will. And I've got to work myself out of bed every day. I've got to get myself where I don't just stay in bed and let the beast beat me. But it's been something I've dealt with my entire life. And again, I don't know if it's, I was born with it or early childhood trauma, whatever it is. It's the only memories I know. And still to this day.

And yet it's dark. And so that character that I built up on Fox and Evil Sunday and Ballers and the world of mixed martial arts, a lot of that was to mask. A lot of it to kind of give people what they want, but also to mask my own pain. And look like this right here. This is not, you know, muscles aren't true strength. The vulnerability is. And, man, I've dealt with this for the most part on my own all these years. I started going to a therapist when I was like four or five.

But having to create that character, Jay Glazer, so I could hide it is why I'm talking about it now. So none of us have to hide it anymore. So we don't have to suffer in silence. So we can be who we really are and know that we're in the majority. Like it's it's the cool kids now. OK, and that's what I'm trying to get us to understand. And we all have it. And whether it's listen, I wrote this book Unbreakable. Because we all go through things now, whether it's my level.

Right. Where it's clinical, the anxiety and depression and bipolar, or whether, you know, you're just going through it because we just got through a pandemic, we were told to isolate from the world, or whether we just think our lives suck now, because we compare ourselves to everybody else's lives on social media. And of course, feel left out. All of us go through something now. Or I've had so many people go, well, I don't have it. Like, yeah, you do. But I don't have it,

but my daughter does or my son does. So we all talk about mental health, but who describes it? I want to be the one to describe it. I want to give us, God blessed me with the ability to communicate. So I want to give us words now so we could all have these conversations

and know we're definitely not alone and we could be authentic to ourselves. Amen. And everybody experiences anxiety, depression differently. Now there is a cluster. I'm speaking like a shrink right now. There's a cluster of symptoms that take place. I would love for us to talk about, you know, there there's nine basic symptoms that take place for folks. And I'll tell you mine right now. Yeah. So talk about, you know, there's nine basic symptoms that take place for folks. And I'll tell you mine right now. Yeah.

So let's, let's, and by the way, just for folks, there's nine and you need five to cluster together for an extended period of time, two to 32 weeks to 30 days to meet the clinical diagnosis. But that doesn't mean that you, you're not suffering in some kind of way, but I'd love to hear yours. Okay. So first of all, again, my depression anxiety started as a child.

So it's, again, every day, every night, but anxiety attacks. My first one was 2005 and I was actually on TV in an empty Oakland Raiders stadium. Nobody there. And I had a big scoop to put out. So I don't know why.

I have no idea what triggered it. No clue. And when I have anxiety attacks, and by the way, it's now been every single week of my life since. It's become part of my weekly routine. I don't want it. I don't want it there. But it's every single freaking

week. It sucks. This past week, woke me up at three o'clock in the morning. I normally don't get woken up but it kicked my ass to speak. But I'm in that Raider Stadium and what happened to me when I have an anxiety attack is I feel like I'm having a heart attack. Right? I get really short of breath. My heart starts racing like crazy. I start sweating like crazy. My eyes start that dark back and forth. The walls start caving in. So 2005, we weren't talking about anxiety attacks.

So I started getting my heart checked out. I thought I was having a heart attack. For 10 years, I went to doctors to try and figure out what was wrong with my heart. 10 years. It wasn't until I saw something about an anxiety attack where I was like, oh, wait, wait, wait. Okay. That's what I have. The thing about this, I was going to doctors for 10 years and I had an anxiety attack every single time after that, I went on TV, whether it was taped or live. And I'm not afraid to be on TV. Like, I'm great in chaos. I suck at calm, so I'll create a lot of chaos sometimes. I'm great in chaos, so in a cage, phenomenal. On TV, I feel great.

So I don't really understand why I have these anxiety attacks when I go on TV, when I feel so safe there. But I also don't make up the rules of this thing. So, you know, those first 10 years, imagine that I was just trying to go, you know, trying to figure out what's wrong in my heart. And that's another reason I'm doing this because I can give words to this

and people go, oh my God, me too. I'd probably say, as I started telling this story, I don't know if the majority of my friends have said they've had one, but a large number of people have been like, oh man, I thought it was just me. Oh, that's what I have too. And again, there's power in numbers. The more I can communicate this, the more I can show people they're not alone because it sucks fighting this alone. Okay. So let's put some language to it. You're calling it anxiety

attack. It's a panic attack, right? And then you had a panic attack with a very specific trigger which was something related to about to being on air and so well so i don't know i don't think it was related on it and again it was it was empty okay no no no no that's what i'm saying it just happened to happen oh it wasn't like you were in the stadium in an uh like in an empty stadium with cameras kind of getting set up and no it wasn't there okay were in the stadium in an, like in an empty stadium with cameras kind of getting set up and no, they are. Okay. No, they were, but that's not like, it's not, it wasn't induced by like, again, I love being on and it's kind of weird how it happens too.

Like now it is, it's the first time I come on and then you'll see me like crack a quick joke. Because like that's how I get I get through it by breathing and laughter. And I wasn't panicking because I was going on. It just coincided with that. But then I am habitual. So it started. That's when it started taking place. And now I don't do it. It doesn't happen. It's funny. When I did that, Lane Johnson sits down this year.

I asked him, hey, you got any tips for people to get through? And he said, well, I started journaling. And I realized since I've written the book, man, I stopped having those panic or anxiety attacks when I go on TV because I wrote about the book. So it changed to overnight or like it found another place to get me

right or before dinner or like it's found another place but i call my anxiety slash panic attacks slash depression i call it my abuser and my abusers figured out a way to hold on even though now i've shifted away from when I go on air. So that's why I don't know per se if that triggered it. Again, you're the doctor. Maybe it did. I don't know. But I don't know why it would have.

No, no. Okay, so let's just call it panic attacks. But some panic attacks have specific triggers, and some are almost agnostic to a trigger. And it feels like, damn, this thing could get me at any time, as opposed to when I show up at the dentist's office, like it's a full panic attack. And so yours was a little bit loose in that respect. There was some triggers, but it was a little bit loose because

it had to do something around TV, but you like, in this case, you like going to the dentist, you like going on air. So, you you know it's almost like a a bad joke that it would show up there and it's um again i feel comfortable there i'm like i am great in between the years in a cage or in or on or the gym or on tv and i'm not great a lot in public so you think that that's where it would rise up and And it normally doesn't. Sometimes it'll happen at a lunch. If it's a lunch meeting, normally not with friends. It's happened again. It's kind of all over. Yeah. It's happened with friends. It's just, I don't know if there's a rhyme or reason of mine. Mine just says, no, you're not getting away so fast. And it's my job to fight back. Okay. So you've got three ways that you're working within.

And I want to go back to the depression thing in a minute, but we're here with anxiety. So anxiety, by definition, a layman's definition is an excessive worry of what could go wrong later. Yes. Panic attacks. I call the sky is falling. Yes. The sky is falling. Yes. The sky is falling.

And a panic attack is a physiological experience that you feel as though you're about to die. Right. There's really no alternatives other than to fight or freeze or run away. Like it's a hijack. Your brain hijacks your thinking experience. And it's brutal. Like it is a brutal experience let's go to the three strategies that you found to be useful for you so mine are for depression anxieties not

just for the anxiety all right these are my my three pillars in in the book here um one is is that laughter i talked about so I use that as an immediate thing. Again, when I'm on air on Fox and Ville Sunday, if you see me crack like a weird joke that doesn't fit at that time, it's because I'm having a really bad one. And I feel like I'm going to have a heart attack on the air. So I'll crack a joke, they laugh, and boom, it goes away because the gray hates laughter.

Okay, hold on, pause, pause, pause. Did your teammates teammates the folks that you're on air with the the production crew did they know that that's why you're doing a laugh were they in on the strategy not until you wrote the book not until i wrote the book in fact i i announced the book on good morning america with my baby sister michael Strahan, who has been my best friend since 1993. And I said it on there and he went, what? And then he called me after. He said, every week?

I said, every week. He's like, why are you being told? And Kurt Menifee asked the same. I said, because I don't want to drag down your guy's show. Like, this is me. I got to get through it. Now, I do lean on my teammates when the depression anxiety is bad. But when they're having an attack and I'm on the air,

that's their safe place too. That's their day. So I've had to work through it myself. I don't want to, we're also live on camera. I don't want to come over. In the middle of the sun and go, Oh my God, I feel like I'm going to just have a heart attack right now. I don't want to bring their day down, which is the opposite of I want us all to do is I want us to reach out and tag a teammate and get help. But in the moment, I never said it to them.

This year, I didn't have any until here's the crazy thing. After our very last show in studio, which was going to see divisional round because the next week we go on the road to the NFC championship game. We finished up. We went down to have a meeting about the following week. Boom, full blown right there. In a minute. Heading into the meeting.

So it didn't have one at all on camera. It wasn't until the end. We're heading to the meeting and the start of the meeting, boom. And I told Kurt Menefee and Howie. And I said, dude, I just, I'm having it. I'm having it. And they saw me and I opened my jacket up and I was filled with sweat. And Kurt's like, whoa, like you said, there was a visceral physical reaction when it happens. But again, you're talking about no rhyme

or reason. I'm off the air. I'm off the air in studio for the whole entire year. And it happens into a meeting just to plan for the next week, which we always have. what you put in your body matters. And that's why I trust Momentous. From the moment I sat down with Jeff Byers, their co-founder and CEO, I could tell this was not your average supplement company. And I was immediately drawn to their mission, helping people achieve performance for life. And to do that, they developed what they call the Momentous Standard.

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Just good design, great science. And if you're ready to feel the difference for yourself, Felix Gray is offering all Finding Mastery listeners 20% off. Just head to FelixGray.com and use the code finding mastery 20 at checkout again that's felixgray you spell it f-e-l-i-x-g-r-a-y.com and use the code finding mastery 20 at felixgray.com for 20 off so the anxiety around a panic attack is often more constricting and debilitating than the actual panic attack. Because you think you're going to die on the air. Yeah.

I want to be that guy. Yeah. Well, but you're not. No one's ever died of a panic attack. No. Right? You're safe. Yeah.

That's not what this is. I know I'm safe. Yeah. It's the anxiety like, when is it going to drop? When is it going to drop? Is it going to drop? No, it's not going to drop. It could drop.

Should I go? I should go. And that's the internal civil war that creates such a tension internally that we actually create, you know, a reason to have a panic attack. But it's that anxiety that is often more constricting the actual panic attack. And just to be clear, like only about 2% of the population in the United States have had a panic attack. I shouldn't say only.

No shot. No chance. That's the ones who talk about it now. Okay. So you're saying, you're saying that it's, you're saying it's doubled. 2%? It's way more than, I'd say it's times 10, 20, 30. Oh no, no.

And that's because I've done this. I'm now a peer who reached out going, oh my God, I didn't know how to tell. I didn't know who to talk about. I've never told anybody. So all the studies we have, that's the people who've been willing to talk about it. Think about all those people who aren't willing to talk about it. That's the majority. The majority aren't willing to talk about it. So I'm going to say it's way more. And they're not actually, you know, science is interesting, right? Like I think it's an under, I think anxiety and depression are underreport reported as well. And the estimates for anxiety and depression are about like 15% for depression, for anxiety. I've always said it's probably more like 30,

three out of 10 people have had, yeah, you think it's even higher. Well, we know this, that during the pandemic, but during the pandemic, it's even higher than that. Right. So, so when were these studies done? we know this that during the pandemic but during the pandemic it's even higher than that right so so when were these studies done well they're done annually they're done every year okay but but here's the thing i just spoke to a room of clinicians about this i said and i and there's 74 of them and one of just 74 doctors and one fucked up dude even though it's probably 75 fucked up people there and i said you guys all got your your education on this from schooling my education is unfortunately from

suffering but most like everybody went to school before this was such a factor and social media was a fact again we there's a couple things here part. A, you get hooked on it, right? You get hooked on whether it's the likes or you just, it becomes another habit and you put it down. Your brainwaves are so different now than they used to be. Like you're just addicted, right? So that leads into it. That's number one.

Number two, we're comparing ourselves to everybody else's, like I said, everybody else's filtered fraction of one second in one day. And we feel left out. We think our lives suck. The most famous people in the world think that their lives suck because, oh, look how much fun they're having. Look what these people do. Look at that person's business. Look at that person's meal.

Look at that party. How come I wasn't invited to that party? It's a lot more. And then the hate we see on Twitter, when we were growing up, and if you were bullied at the playground or your friend was, it did suck for the weekend, the week, right? And that's a week in a week of your time over one bully. We see it a thousand times per minute on Twitter. The human condition is just not meant for it. They're not factoring all that in. So when you're saying these numbers that they're, they're not even close to it. And I'm talking, and maybe you guys are talking clinical depression, anxiety, which is my level,

but that's not what we should be talking about. We should be talking about everybody. And even like people, as I've started to write, and if you read the book, it's this, I talk about the gray through a conversation I had with Sean McVeigh last year. When we were in Cabo, me, him, and Andrew Whitworth, when Matthew Stafford literally happened to show up to our hotel.

It was not planned, even though people don't believe it. It literally was not planned. Actually, McVeigh was down there because I broke up with my girlfriend. And he was down, he stayed down and helped console my ass. He was supposed to be gone so it like it was coincidental but we had a we had a conversation that night me and Andrew Whitworth about living in the gray and that darkness um and the darkness that gets football players and people do such push themselves to such high levels and Sean just didn't understand

it he didn't get it at the time and I think the majority was like him and asked we started talking this year he called me in the middle of this year and he said now I get it yeah I've suffered from the great I just didn't know what it was I didn't know that that's what that was so that's what I mean I think the masses have something and now that I've written this book also people have reached out and say, I don't have it, but my son does, or my daughter does, or my this or that. And even though, no, you got them too. And, but they just want the words to connect with their son or daughter and have the communication to connect with them. So there's a lot more than we think.

I love what you're doing because your gift is to put words to experiences. You're doing it here in an intimate, meaningful way that's changing people. Also, I would temper the enthusiasm of the percentage of then all of a sudden you look out and you're like, people are like, oh, I have one like that. And I have one like that. But the people that don't have one, don't reach out to you. Isn't that better? Isn't that better for them to go? Yes. That's me.

Then to hide the shadows and suffer in silence. Oh, no, no, no, no. Right. So I'm not saying again, my listen, it could be anything like, no, no, no, no. He doesn't have my level, but he, this year is like, Oh dude, I've been suppressing this and I haven't leaned on anybody when I go through this anxiety. I haven't been vulnerable about it. Yes.

Yeah. You're giving a massive gift to people. And so folks like Sean that are great at what they do, there's an aloneness that can come with that as well. There's an aloneness on that depression side that is unique for people that are trying to do the extraordinary. And I'm not saying that by any means depression is reserved for just them, but there's a uniqueness in this community of people that are trying to do the extraordinary that is compounded in many respects. Yeah. I just, I think on the other end too,

because it's such a stigma because people feel so like they're damaged. Or if they say they have depression, anxiety. That's why I'd rather people, I personally rather more people, even if it's a little or a lot, jump in with it this way. And then say, okay, at least I have a grasp of this. Like, listen, if you sprain your knee, I don't want you hiding that. Right? Let's at least know we have it. How do we fix it? Now, is the difference between a sprained knee and a torn ACL? Totally different, right? But we still have to go and attack it. Same thing here. And

the other part of this too is mental health is way too reactive. We only go to therapists when something wrong has happened, when the sky is falling. We don't do that with physical health. We've got to start doing it with mental health. That's right. That's the old way of thinking. That's why we need to do this. And to have us feel like we're the majority, because I do think we are the majority.

And again, I'm not saying clinical, but it's a harder world than we've ever lived in, man. Whether it's the pandemic or social media or, yeah, it's just a harder world than we've ever lived in, man. It's whether it's the pandemic or social media or yeah, it's, it's just a harder world than it's ever been. So I think that we are in the majority and the more people, and I'm just saying that, and it doesn't mean like your, your, your life sucks or anything like that. It's like, man, I have, um, I had this panic attack or man, I've been, I had this period where I couldn't get out of this period for a little while, or I do have these feelings or man, I want to connect

better with my son or daughter. It's really, I'm not able to with this. I just think we all go through a lot more struggles, but our struggles got to make us strong, man. Like our, our scars are, we have to, we have to, we have to really rely on to brag about. You're a strong man. And so by you doing this, it creates a really strong anchor. Like, okay, if he can, I can. Awesome. It is harder for the person who feels weak to be able able to say it even though you feel even you listen on paper you've got all the success physically you look like you've been sculpted out of a out of a uh you know a piece of marble what what what marble store would that be yeah right you only see them here it's a it's a one, right? You see from here up, not there. And not the gut.

So like notwithstanding. Don't I have more? And that's why I am doing this because I think I built up this big facade for a while. There you go. So I was willing to break it down than most. So I think there's both, right? You could be, well, I'm not that strong to do it when yes, you are that strong to do it. But also my level was, yeah, I'm going to decide

to reveal myself who I really am to the world. And I love that. Let's, let's have this in, as a, as a, just a thought stem. Osaka raises her hand and says, can't do it yeah okay she says no naomi osaka says i can't do it and then what about the number just strong as shit yep strong like best in the world what about number oh that was strong that was that's and she is yeah that's really strong yeah that's amazing now what about number 255 on tour that is near bankrupt, has the same conditions? So no matter what, I think we need to be, I think the most successful people are as authentic as they can be, right? You got to live and die with who you are.

Period. So if you're number 52 or number 252, if you come forward with it, maybe they don't have the same form, but they can turn to their coach or their teammates and go man i'm really struggling and then their teammates and coaches are allowed to lift them up because we need it and that's you talk about the book like i i did this so i can have more teammates so i can't talk to about it when i talk to them about it it gets me through that grade better it allows me to walk this walk with more people so even if your number and i understand what you're saying it's number 252 on tour is like,

man, if I say this, I'm going to be over here. I'm not going to, no one's going to give me a chance. Or- And I've got to show up to this thing because I don't have any resources. No, I'm not saying that we shouldn't show up. And Naomi, and I think, listen, I think, and that's what I warn people about too.

Like when I, like I've been on both sides. I've been on the broke side when I was, I made $9,750 a year for the first 11 years of my career. Okay. 9,700 bucks living in New York city, broken and broke, working a hundred hour weeks. I couldn't get another job because I wanted to outwork everybody in this field.

So straight and actually drove me back into New York City every day for seven years because I didn't have enough for a subway and bus fare both ways. So I owned like 28 grand in Lincoln Tunnel fare. But every single day drove me from Giant Stadium back. And he didn't even live in New York City. So I understand the broke side. When I went from broke to, let's say, unbreakable, when I'm up here and I became the first side. When I went from broke to, let's say, unbreakable,

when I'm up here and I became the first, you know, minute by minute, you know, breaking news person in this country, me and John Clayton and Len Pasquarelli on the internet, which I think is going to take off that internet thing one day. You know, all of a sudden I got, that was for 50 grand. And all of a sudden I started moving up and it was like this amount, this amount. And I started moving up more and more. I thought it'd be, I started moving up. And it was like this amount and this amount. And I started moving up more and more.

I thought it'd be rainbows and unicorns. And it wasn't. Like, if you don't know how to love yourself up from the inside out, I don't care how much money they pay me. Like, it wasn't. And in fact, it made it harder on me. So all of a sudden, now that I became, we're in the TV Hall of Fame. I'm in five years of ballers. I'm a great charity. I'm a big brand with GMC and

unbreakable in my, between my years, it's probably the, it's harder because now I'll have things to lose. I didn't have anything to lose back then. Now I'm so afraid to lose it all that it's changed who I was. So someone like Naomi Osaka, when you get so high or Simone Biles, now all of a sudden the whole world's watching you you have a lot more to lose and there's hard things about both sides so I've experienced both that's what's hard for somebody like her or somebody like me or a lot of other people that like look Barack wrote the forward on this and did it because he said brother you're going to be the one who leads us, helps lead us all

through the gray. But Dwayne is the most successful person on the planet because he still honestly feels like he's going to be broke next week again and be homeless again next week. And he's going to lose it all. Not that he's not going to get it. He's going to lose it. And that anxiety grips him. And I know people go, oh, yeah, tough problems. Again, all our problems weigh the same between our ears. They all weigh the same. So Naomi's problem, it could have been one thing, but now, yes, she has so much more to lose. Where that girl at 252 doesn't have that to lose, but she still has those problems. She still has that pain. That's right. Equally hard for different reasons.

Correct. Right. And okay. And so. And obviously I have ADD too, which is why I keep interrupting you. So I got everything. Our experience in life is the relationship we have with experience. So, so it's the way that you and I uniquely experienced this conversation is what makes us, us. And if I'm experiencing this right now, like, geez, dude, can't stop interrupting me. Then I'm going to have a frustrated experience. If my experience is like, God, he's on it, he's rolling. Then my experience is like my shoulders drop and I'm leaning in. So this is what, this is what I hope a takeaway is, is that anybody that's listening listens to you and says, listen, I've got moments in my life that feel as though it's going to get the best of me. I keep fighting.

I keep fighting. I keep figuring out. I got to laugh. I need a community. I need a tribe. Build a team. And the team. And then what was your third one?

My third one is be of service. Be of service. Hold on real quick. You're right on the money with three of the really important components to be able to work from a clinical standpoint with anxiety, depression, even addiction. And so now talk about that, that third one of being a service. Yeah. So being a service for me, it's hard to feel that dark, doomy gray when you see others happy or smile. You know you've done something for somebody. So, again, even when I was broke, I figured out ways to be of service.

And I still actually toothbrush, toothpaste, handy wipes, band-aids, pad and pen, socks, gloves, and deodorant and put it in a bag and give it out to the homeless. It's eight bucks. Right? And I still do that with my son. So it's just things. Or now being of service, just be calling somebody. The other night, I said I had one that really got me. I just called some people and said, hey, how are you doing?

So some people I called and said, hey, I'm struggling. That's about me having a team. And some people I called and said, how are you doing? I'm just checking up on you. So by me doing that, it allowed me to work myself through it. And the other thing you just said that everybody has this, and it's like that moment, right? I just did an appearance recently about all this.

And there was a man in the crowd. I think he was about 75 years old. I think that's what he said. And he raised his hand. He said, Jay, you said you have this crippling depression and anxiety. But then you talked about being relentless and unbreakable in life. How do you? He said, I had a hard time getting out of bed.

I almost didn't come here this morning. And a hard time getting out of bed. I almost didn't come here this morning and a hard time getting out of bed and coming. So how are you able to be relentless in life with this level of anxiety? And I said, I'm glad you asked that. He said, it is hard for me to get out of bed every single day. Every single morning of my life, I wake up and I feel like the sky has fallen and I feel unworthy of being loved. And I feel just, man, the world's against me. Mike, it's every day. It sucks.

And once I make that decision to get out of bed, because I'm going to fucking get out of bed. Once I make that decision, then I go after life relentlessly. And that's what I told him. Once I make that decision, right? Life's about our choices and our decisions. I might as well, I might as well go for it, right? Now, I may be listless because it's getting to me, but I'm going for it. So I said to him, I said, man, you just opened up in front of 200 of your colleagues

about this. This is the first time you ever told anybody. He said, it is. He pulled his glasses off and starts crying. I said, how how freaking courageous is that this is what i mean about having a team the entire place got up and gave this guy a standing ovation right and this is what i mean like be a tip that was me being of service to him but also that was his way of reaching out having a team it's pretty pretty courageous of him to raise his hand in front of coworkers, but also I'm getting choked up here because that's 75 years of pain for that dude. 75 years

where if I didn't happen to speak on this, who knows if he ever talked about it, right? So there's just too many of us out there that are like that. And that's why I think it's just important to do. Jay, I'm stoked on what you're doing. And I can't wave my arms far enough or high enough to say, pay attention to what you're saying, because this silent suffering that happens for most of us, this aloneness, this sometimes chemical, sometimes psychological, sometimes both experience that feels overwhelming. There are tools and you named three of them. Laughing is a great tool. It changes physiology. It forces you to be present. There's a long exhale, which sends a signal to the brain that you're okay. Humor is good in so many ways. The second is having a community.

Yeah, having a team. And that goes two ways, right? That is you connecting with others and others being there for you. So a teammate is what it's about. And I want to kind of delve into that a little bit more because a teammate isn't just

having an actual team. It's not the Seattle Seahawks. It's not the LA Rams. Some of it is, could be. Like for me, my dog is in an IR team. My son is in an IR team. God and I, the one up there, we're a team. My fight team is a team. My unbreakable team is a team. My MVP charity is a team, right? My Fox Anvil Sunday crew is certainly a team that I lean on. So there's teams all around us. We just got to see it and realize,

okay, that person's a teammate. My wife or husband is actually a teammate. My children are teammates. My parents are teammates. My dog's team, God is a teammate. It's your work could be a teammate. So that's what we have more teams around us than we think. That's my point. That's great. And we have to be good teammates for those teams to stay together, to hold together, to be true. Yeah. Don't be a selfish teammate. No, it's, it, it doesn't last long. It just, to be true. Don't be a selfish teammate. No, it doesn't last long. It just doesn't last long. Don't be a selfish teammate.

Yes. I love it. And then the other is, you know, being of service. Now there's a couple others. Talk therapy. So working with somebody that is highly skilled in the way that mind, thoughts and emotions work. And that's how I was saying before, like if our elbows hurt, we immediately go to someone

to get treatment or like, man, if you're a football player and you're 40 times not up, you're going to get a speed coach. Right. So same with this. We need a therapist, not just when the sky is falling, but in other times. I have three therapists that I constantly work with. And I'll add more because it's, I'm trying to, it's, it's mental fitness now. Right. I don't want to just call it mental health.

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So if you're not training your mind right in times of calm waters what makes us think in in rugged waters that it's going to hold up well right and so yeah all right and then talk therapy so we got that meditation mindfulness is another kind of best practice mindfulness-based stress reduction yep So I, I, I'm willing to try them all. I've tried over 30 of them. I'm one of those guys, the SSRIs just don't work. A lot of them don't work. They probably found two over the years that worked, but I metabolized so fast. They worked for a few days and that was it. So I, and I'm trying to give all the strategies and these tools that I have, hoping to build myself from the inside out.

But I'm still going to try. When the next medication comes out, I'm going to try. Like, I'm never going to stop seeking out that help. And when I have friends who their meds work for them, I'm like, damn. Like, shit, I wish I could be that. So I agree, too. And meds come in all sorts of ways now, right? Because now you have, you know, the psychedelics are coming out and whatever it is, you know,

alternative health medicines, and I'm willing to try anything. Yeah, good. I mean, there's a lot of alternatives. There's a lot of alternatives. Yeah. But I haven't found one that's worked for me yet. Like it's been 30, 30 plus, but I'll keep trying. So I want people to understand that out there.

Like, yes, work you, keep doing it. And we also got to build ourselves up from the inside out with or without them. The other is exercise as so you're well aware that that can meaningfully impact. And then there's also some modalities like trans, transcranial magnetic stimulation. There's EEG stuff where you can actually attune your brain. So those modalities, yeah, those modalities are important as well. I've done the brain scans where they do the EM, what do they call it? EMDR? EMDR is another modality. EMDR, right. I've done that. Man, I've done, like I said, i've done a lot i've done a lot

because i know i could pull myself up now some of them have sent me in a spiral um a dark hole and i know like i said i could pull myself up and out of it and i work with so many combat vets i don't want to ever say to them that give the okay something that i don't know works for me so i'm willing to try anything really for them so i can say wow this was amazing or this is my experience with this um because i'm just trying to be a good teammate to them and i know i can pull myself out of it um where like for me as dark as i've ever gotten suicide will not be an option for me. Like I just won't, I will not do that too. And if I made that decision a long time ago, I want everybody to like,

A, you never know what lies around next Tuesday or lives could always change next week. But B, I just don't want to do that to anybody else. Right. I just don't want to be, I don't want to put my pain on anybody else. And while my pain may be gone, if I do that, their pain around me will will be i put so many more so much more pain and problems on them and i don't want to do that so i know i can pull myself up and out of these dark holes that certain treatment is has led me to um but i won't stop until i and and there's been some that have given me relief for certain periods of time.

So I'll keep trying to do it for all of us. We all need high ground, whether that is a warm bath, magnesium, salt, you know, like massage, you know, whatever. We all need high ground. And if there's durable ways that you know, you can get to the high ground. Great. And so this is a great conversation. I want to honor our time, but a great conversation. We're good. Yeah. For you to say, for me to say, Hey, invest in your psychology. Don't wait until you feel breakable. Don't you, you don't need to wait for that like get on it now like right now and folks are listening like what do you mean yeah call call a sports psychologist call a performance psychologist

go find a local psychologist from a friend of yours that's doing some work and and get ahead of it which is like i want to be great i want to experience my potential i want to flourish in life well go get your mind fit and conditioned and healthy so it's pliable and agile i mean that's that's it look the key to being great and i put this it's actually pretty simple find out who the best is and do more than them that's it right oh my god i i i love the simplicity i think you need to add a tone you need to add a tone. You need to add a tone in there though. What is that? There's a note in here that's important. But my point is-

Authenticity. Authenticity. But a lot of people go, man, why isn't this happening to me? Why isn't this happening to me? Because man, if you want this to happen for you, you got to double your work output that's what I said like I was working 100 hour weeks trying to make my dreams come true

I wasn't outworking everybody by little by a lot but listen it's the simplicity I use Tom Brady all the time dude's a six-round pick he didn't wasn't a full-time starter in college terrible body couldn't run fast what's he do he outworks the world i i had a football player we're training the atlanta falcons one year and the football player came out jj watt he said to me man how about jj's turn into i said yeah and he said uh man i wonder why i didn't turn into that i said well you can just find out his workout and do more and uh and it's not just a workout it's the film right it's the body it's everything and he goes well i can't do that i said well there's your answer right there there's your answer you just

said it but i would go upstream from there jay and i'd say it's not the downstream workout it's the way that he's thinking about creating that type of workout plan it's the 14 physical training coaches that he's interviewed to find the thing that works right for him. So I'd go upstream on that and say, understand how he thinks. And then it's, everybody's leaving clues. We're all leaving clues.

Look at my, look, listen, the Michael Jordan's, the Tiger Woods, the Lindsay Vons, they all got the same thing. They outwork everybody,

not by a little, by a lot. Now the other end of that is trying to be great as lonely. It's freaking miserable. It's all the hours that you put in that nobody watches. Okay. This is really important because that's trying to be the greatest. Or just great. But if you're trying to be your best, whatever that might be, it doesn't necessarily have to have that level of quote unquote sacrifice.

What it doesn't have to have. Well, if we're talking about on a pro level, it's got to have a lot of sacrifice. Okay. So we need to, we need to actually sit down over this because I, I can introduce folks in different disciplines, not sport. And, and you and I know the same players that are the half percenters and say, Oh God, there's a loneliness. There's an internal scratchiness. I'd like to have more for dinner once, but I don't want to be around this person very often because there's such a toxicity inside

of them. Oh, no, I don't mean that. But listen, I'm going to run straight in all the time, right? He outworks the freaking world, but it's constant. And the things he knows he's not going to, he's going to work harder. he knows he's not gonna he's gonna work hard right he's gonna ask he's gonna so you always want to be around him so i'm not saying it's that where it's toxic being around guys or it's all they think about work i'm not saying that i'm just saying if you want to be great in anything you do kind of work your freaking ass off like here it doesn't just happen for us for anybody yeah and then you can't you can't be upset that it doesn't happen and go, why is this happening to me

when you're not putting that work in? That's my point. Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, that's a really important point. Okay. Okay. Look, let's slightly pivot and just talk about trust for just a quick moment here. Your currency is trust.

People trust you and they bring you into the intimate circle knowing that your job is to talk about information that they share with you. Okay. So it is a high wire act that you're able to navigate and you've done it beautifully. Your relationships are your second currency. So how do you develop trust? What is your mechanism for it? I'm authentic. Love me or hate me, I am who I am.

I'm authentic. Even when I'm trying to mask the depression, anxiety, there's always an authenticity about me. I've never hid my fucked upness. Again, back then we'd call it crazy. Now we're mental health. But also in building relationships, I've never had relationships where I'm trying to have a relationship for me. I go in every relationship of what I could, man, again, I need a team for mental health. I need a team. So on my team, I'm going to be the most loyal dude in the room. And I hope everybody else is going to be just as loyal, but that's the key. You go in and you be loyal and you have give give relationships where you're not just taking

no one wants to be around that I will actually treat everybody it's going to sound a little um a little bizarre but I treat people like I'm going to be their pallbearer all right who's your pallbearer the people that man you can know what matter what so you're riding dies wherever you are in life you get in trouble you call me i'm that guy i'll be there in two seconds whatever it is and man if 10 or 15 people are view me the same way back i got a good little crew around me and luckily i think some more than that have because i am there and authentic and i'm not just trying to take and use it yeah but a lot of times i get in fights with my people about

they're like man we can't have this well i need to break this man that's what i do for a living like we gotta you know so there is but you gotta remind hey this what you guys you know you guys need help with this this this i need help with this. But I just want to make sure people know, like, I'm never doing this because I'm looking for scoops. I'm never doing this. I put out probably less than 1% of what I'm told. So a lot of it, too, is, you know, like, hey, I really like this. Or, hey, I want to work on this for you. Hey, I'm going to help you with this.

But when it happens, I want to be the one to break it. Right? And that is a trust also i think when i started i started in you know the early days one of the things i want to do is is do it differently i thought a lot of writers back then were as the early 90s late 80s early 90s were using their pen as a weapon i said i'm gonna start relationships totally different and would, I'd build relationships instead of going for the scoop. If you just go for the scoop,

you're going to burn yourself. It's one time. If you have a relationship, it's you guys are always both lifting each other up. Like we should lift each other up for the longterm. And that's how, that's how I do it. I mean, it's been, it's funny because I was, man, I was doing nfl training camp tour

dan quinn his second last year i think with the falcons third to last year whatever it was and he's i still do the same stuff i did when i first since 93 i go to training camp all all summer and dan's like what are you still doing this for so what do you mean he said you've moved up and on from this haven't you I said there is no up and down for this like you guys are my family this is my this is my team the NFL for me is that is that team I talked about for me right the fight world the mixed martial arts world is a fight team a family for me so there is no moving up and on I'm not looking at people like oh now i've moved up and on from all y'all no we're walking this walk together forever that's how i view it two things one is some research out of harvard from francis fry and ann morris talk about the there's a trust triangle

so it's empathy meaning i see you i get you you know there's some logic to the way that we're going to work together, which is like, Hey, listen, I got to, I got to break this one. Right. Right. And then the other is they know how to trust you because you're authentic. You see, and you walk and you talk in the, you know, in ways that are familiar and that there's no dubiousness about it. So, and I'm going to add a, and I'm going to add a fourth, I'm going to add a fourth one on that fourth one is that loyalty. Loyalty is a dying art.

It's a lost art. Right. And for me, loyalty, that has been my brand and anything and everything I've done forever. And that's my authentic brand. So it's, it's, um, and I just say brand because it sounds cool for me to say, but loyalty was put me on the path that I've always been on. And then the other thing that you talked about, which is materially important is that, um, I was talking to a big investor in tech and he was talking, this was maybe like four years ago. And he was talking about laying a big bet. And I was like, you're going to lay that kind of bet. And he was talking about Elon Musk and on Elon Musk. And he says, he, I'm betting on him.

I am betting on him. Yeah. He's a bad man. I'm betting on him. And he had great logic of why that seemed like a sound bet, even though like there's some volatility in the market around him. I have that same feeling for you. You, I want to, I would, I would bet on you and look at your track record, look at your honesty, look at your authenticity, look at your ethic and like, do you have that way about you? And, um, yeah, man. So I'm. Wow. Thank you, man. That is wow. Thank you. Thank you so much, man. And wow. I appreciate that a lot. Thank you. Yeah, dude. I appreciate you. And so listen, however, I can be of service to MVP. I know we've talked about it and we haven't been able to line it up to date, but at some point we will.

And dude, I'm so stoked to flame and, and support what you're doing. And then if we could just close it up, if we close this out your resume is ridiculous what do you want people to say your eulogy talk about paul bears he was com he was com let me give you a few he was committed to well first of all i want to set some ground rules for my funeral yeah let's do let's do that no one's wearing black you're gonna celebrate my ass and celebrate each other okay and no but it's a party okay that's not more because i also like i mean i i think we just rent these bodies but the souls live on forever and i want to see y'all celebrate i want to again be of service to y'all so i want y'all to be happy

and celebrate and tell all the crazy glazer stories and have fun and lift yourselves up. So that's one ground rule there. Okay, cool. Shots are allowed. No problem. Beers are totally fine. But what I want to be, I want to leave a legacy here. I want to be, I want to change, I want to change how mental health is talked about.

I want to change the next generation of our military, right, where, man, they come out better. They view themselves differently. They view themselves with more pride. They view themselves as, you know, the heroes that they are. And it's not being cliche. And I say heroes because all these vets we have in MVP, I didn't know a single one of them before I started MVP. Yet they went overseas to save, I say save, or to serve people they don't know. That's selfless. And that's why they're heroes they don't

know me and my son i would like to be you know somebody that they're able to change and then same with like our pro athletes our football players man i want these i want all our pro athletes like right now we're going on a bad road here because of where we are mental health society and i want them i want to be the guy that gets them to all finish up and be proud of what they did and they can go live long, happy, successful, fun lives based off what they've done.

I know it sounds, it's not cliche, but it really, I can't fit it into one or two words, which obviously I can't do anything with. But at least this,

I want, you know what? Man, I'd probably like the room to be left with people saying, I'm better off because of Jay Gleiser. Period. That's it. I'm rooting for you, brother.

I bet on you too. I appreciate that, man. And like I said, I'm a work in progress, man. I'm still, even like you said, what you said to me, I'm trying to accept that more now and you know lee and it's hard for me and i but it's getting better for me when i hear things like that so i really appreciate that it really means a lot awesome all right dude i'm looking forward i'm i'm looking forward to the next time that we connect in person yeah and

anything i can do on this come Come to MVP session in LA. I'll meet you out there. When are you? Every Wednesday night. It's every Wednesday. Every Wednesday at Unbreakable in LA. And we're, again, we're in seven cities. For any combat vet or athlete that's listened to this,

MVP, merging vets and players. We take former combat vets now actually open up to active combat military. And we're merging together with former NFL players and former fighters and Olympians in basketball and baseball. But now it's everyone because we want them to know they have a place to go when the uniform comes off. And we're putting them together. We train for about a half hour just to give you that burn again and release that in your brain. But really, we sit in these mass after and we talk about everything about everything and we are so vulnerable and it's not three or five of

us in a room and we're not sitting there with styrofoam cups like we're sitting there there's 50 80 100 like it's incredible and how much we open up and lean on each other and learn from each other it's incredible so come up there man you'd be my guest i would love it they would love it also um and that's we you know our our vets and our players deserve to be heard and when they when they kind of bounce stuff off each other man it's it's better than any fortune 500 board room i've been in or meeting room i've been in. It's incredible what they come up with. So I'd love for you to come up and witness the magic firsthand. Fire in the hole. Let's go. Let's go. All right, Jay, I appreciate you. Unbreakable. Check it out social, find it

everywhere. It's called Unbreakable, How I Turn My Depression and Anx motivation and you can too. So yeah, you can get anywhere, any bookstore, anywhere you normally buy books. Appreciate you, brother. I appreciate you, man. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show,

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