Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Bob Wright, Former Vice Chairman of GE and CEO of NBC

Episode Date: August 1, 2018

This week’s conversation is with Bob Wright, who served as vice chairman of General Electric and president, CEO, and chairman of NBC and NBC Universal from 1986 to 2007.Prior to that, he served as president of General Electric Financial Services and before that as president of Cox Cable Communications.Bob’s had a diversified career in law, general management, marketing, and television and has been inducted into the Advertising, Broadcasting and Cable Halls of Fame.He is also the co-founder of Autism Speaks and founder of The Suzanne Wright FoundationBob’s major focus right now is on The Suzanne Wright Foundation and his CodePurple campaign which are both fighting pancreatic cancer.In this conversation we touch on leadership, passion and accountability._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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on a demanding day certainly, I need something quick that will support the way that I feel and think and perform. And that's why I've been leaning on David Protein Bars. And so has the team here at Finding Mastery. In fact, our GM, Stuart, he loves them so much. I just want to kind of quickly put him on the spot. Stuart, I know you're listening. I think you might be the reason that we're running out of these bars so quickly. They're incredible, Mike. I love them. One a day, one a day. What do you mean one a day? There's way more than that happening here. Don't tell. Okay. All right. Look, they're incredibly simple. They're effective. 28 grams of protein,

just 150 calories and zero grams of sugar. It's rare to find something that fits so conveniently into a performance-based lifestyle and actually tastes good. Dr. Peter Attia, someone who's been on the show, it's a great episode by the way, is also their chief science officer. So I know they've done their due diligence in that category. My favorite flavor right now is the chocolate chip cookie dough. And a few of our teammates here at Finding Mastery have been loving the fudge brownie and peanut butter. I know, Stuart, you're still listening here. So getting enough protein matters. And that can't be understated, not just for strength, but for energy and focus, recovery, for longevity. And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a president and CEO and chairman of NBC and NBC Universal from 1986 to 2007. Those are big time responsibilities. He serves as the president of GE Financial Services. And before that, he was the president of Cox Cable Communications.

And he's had this really diversified career in law and general management, marketing and television. And in fact, he's also been inducted into the Advertising Broadcaster and Cable Hall of Fame. Okay. So he's not messing around. He's done it. He's lived it.

And now he's on the other side of being able to talk about how he's done what he's done. And then he's also mission-minded and purpose-minded in this phase of his career and life. And so right now he's the co-founder of Autism Speaks. I'm sure you've heard of that. And he's the founder of the Suzanne Wright Foundation. So Bob's main focus right now is on the Suzanne Wright Foundation and his Code Purple campaign, which are both fighting pancreatic cancer. And in this conversation, we touch on leadership and passion and accountability. And we talk about why he's

doing what he's doing. And when you think about it, if you've recognized the foundation, Autism Speaks, think about how that came into existence. And we're going to pull back the curtain and talk about his process and where he came from. So with that, let's jump right into this conversation with Bob Wright. Bob, how are you doing? I'm doing just fine. I'm doing fine, doctor. How are you? Fantastic. Thank you in advance for taking the time. And congratulations for everything that you've contributed to the world. And that's from large corporations to

endeavors that were near and dear to your heart, autism speaks, that also changed the rhythm of autism and the exposure that we've had to it. So and I can go on and on. But congratulations on everything you've done to date. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Okay, so before we get into kind of the meat of this conversation, can you walk us through what your early life was like, just to give some context for everything that we're going to explore in this conversation? Well, sure.

I grew up as an only child. My mother was a full-time school teacher. My father was a man who had an engineering background, and he ran an air conditioning and heating business. They were all children of the Depression. They were both born in 1905. She was from upstate New York and he was from Ohio. And they both met during the Depression out in Long Island, just outside of New York. Were your parents alive when you became the chairman of General Electric? No, no, they weren't. I mean, talk about, like, was there something unique about that industry? Or was it just happened to be something that, like, not landed in your lap, but you worked towards for other reasons?

Well, they were alive when I was with GE. So that was good. They were alive when I was a practicing lawyer in New Jersey. They were alive when I was in NBC, one of them, my father. So my mother passed away earlier. She didn't get to see that part of it, but she knew I was doing well at the time when I was up in Pittsfield, Massachusetts.

So they got to see and participate in a lot of the successes I had. Okay. And it's one thing to work for NBC. It's another thing to be chairman and to be CEO and president of General Electric. I mean, so, okay. So let's go back to early childhood where you grew up in the conditions you just described. And then what else was significant about your upbringing? Well, I spent a lot of time with my mother when

she didn't drive. And so she had all of her girlfriends were school teachers. And so when I spent time with her, she was very religious as a Catholic. My father was a practicing agnostic. But he was a sort of a Christian man. I mean, he had goodwill and he had good histories and so forth, but he was just not keen on being associated with any particular religious practices. So it's a, but I spent a lot of time with my, my mother and her, her, her girlfriends, uh,

who were all teachers. And when, and when I was growing up, um, I, they, they would come and visit. Uh,

my mother never thought my father's friends were that attractive. So most of the entertainment was always my mother's friends, the teachers. And, uh, so I grew up in my house. And the first thing I do when I come in and they say, Bobby, where's your report card? Let's see what you got. And I used to remember having to find my report card every time they had a party because

all the teachers wanted to know how I was doing. And so I was very particular and I happened to be a very good student. So it was wonderful. It was a great experience. Okay. Did that interest in your mom's peer group, did that influence you about studying or about being conscientious about grades? Or was that just a bonus because it felt really good to brag? No, it helped. That's why I brought it up. It helped, it helped give me a sense of that that was a responsibility that I could either accept or reject. And I, I agreed to accept it. And, and to, you know, to, to be, to do well in these grades meant something to these people. And it meant something to me. And so I got that from an early age and it was never, I never lost it. You know, always, I always had that, you know, that,

that sensibility. And one of the things that I've tried to do all my life is to accept responsibility for myself and my ambitions. Whoa, whoa, whoa, okay. That is phenomenal, right? Like, because I was gonna, I was hoping that you wouldn't leave that thought because you said you could accept or reject it and you accepted it. And then that has been a thread

that's run throughout your whole life to accept responsibility. And then you added another part to that, which was, gosh, I'm blanking on exactly what you said. I need to play it back in my head. Well, accepting the responsibility to fulfill your own ambitions. The difference between a dreamer and a visionary is execution. I put myself in situations intentionally that I really felt that I could make a difference, but I knew that I had to do an awful lot to do that. And I also learned early on that you're going to have to accept when it doesn't work out and you're going to have to not be blaming everybody else about it. You

have to accept the responsibility when you choose a path that's difficult. You're really going to have to accept that if it doesn't work out for you, that something failed in your own situation. You can't be blaming other people for it. Okay. How did you learn that? Because I'll tell you what I see in elite sport often is that it's right before it's about to get really bad. Like there's usually some sort of trending or cracking or there's some sort of fraying that takes place inside the culture of an organization.

And I'm assuming this is similar to corporate America or not just America, but corporations. But maybe not, I don't want to make an assumption, but there's like this fraying that begins. And when the fraying becomes difficult, people start to point their fingers. They start to see why a cover your, your, your ass. And they really start to, um, protect themselves as opposed to give into what needs to take place to get through this tough period. And that's, that's not a full rule by any means, but I've seen that trend over and over again. And that's not a full rule by any means,

but I've seen that trend over and over again. And I'm wondering if there's any light bulbs in that for you or something else. Well, no, I see what you're saying. I agree with that. It's when you're in a, you know, corporations are basically, you know, packages of people that are, you know, hopefully working well together. And there can be many, packages of people that are, you know, hopefully working well together.

And there can be many, many of them, or they can be sort of very large groups, but they generally are going to be groups of people. And as time goes on, those groups of people, the organization that they're in has to be continue to be led and to be, you know, moving forward because you can, in business, you can't, you really can't just sit still. Uh, you can do that in social groups and you can do it in church groups and things, but you really can't do that in business. You have to be moving forward or you're going to be moving backwards. It's, it's, and so you, you, when, when sometimes when people have been there a while and things aren't going well, they do tend

to become very obstreperous, some of them. Other people say, no, we have to change this. We have to change this. We have to get out. I left a number of different positions in my life, not because I hated it, but I just felt I was in a situation where I wasn't going to meet my own objectives. And I was young enough to do it, and I had a great support. One of the greatest supports I had in my life was my 50-year relationship with my wife, who died in 2016. She put up with all this. She helped me make these decisions to move on or to express my concerns in a rather dramatic manner.

So that was part of my whole background. One of the most significant things that happened to me other than my marriage, and the marriage that took 49 years married, and I was with her for another year or so at 60, 50 years, was the fact that I was a member of four different bars after I got out of University of Virginia. I got the Virginia bar in 67 and the New York bar in 68 and the Massachusetts bar in 69 and the New Jersey bar in 70. So every one of those years, I was taking a bar exam, and I passed them all. And that gave me a great sense of achievement, and a sense of that I could really, you know, deal with this subject matter. That's a little bit of your mastery question or something. Yeah, for sure.

Mastery to me means you're a professional. It doesn't mean you're the best in the world, but it means you're a professional. Like a professional athlete has to have some significant level of mastery or they wouldn't be a professional. Nobody would be paying him to play. And so in the case of me, being able to do that and having done that, even though I elected to not be a lawyer after about seven years, I never forgot that.

And I always felt that that helped me a great deal, gave me a great deal of confidence in making decisions, business decisions, and managing people and understanding, you know, the environmental aspects of what I was doing. I don't mean that from air and water. I mean just the nature of what was going on around me and being able to, you know, parse those pieces together.

So things like that, that was a little carry forward from my growing up, where I was always in a situation where I was trying to excel in what I was doing. And then if I really couldn't do it, I was willing to move away from it and find something else that I could excel in. There's this thought in elite performance, whether it's sport or music or whatever, that they'll say things like, you just have to feel it in your bones.

And that's like, they say that, they bring that out when the times are tough and it's hard and the competitive stakes are high and there's a lot a lot on the line and it's like in other words they're saying in so many ways like you you can't just make it up now that you want to be a competitor because people are watching or the stakes are high like you got to feel this deep inside of you and i'm not getting that language from you but i'm getting from a very early age for a long time, you wanted to get to the limits or the edges of your talent, whatever it was. At a young age, it was very different than an older age as you've had more time and experience under your belt. Is that close to being right,

Bob? Yeah, and it changes too. It was easier for me to do it when I was very young, going in grammar school, because I went to parochial school, and it was very strict. And it's somewhat easier to do these things in a strict environment. When I was in high school, I was in an all-boys high school that excelled in athletics and academics. So you had a lot of choices of things you could do. I played football in my first two years as an example in a team that was undefeated. It was a junior varsity. We had 28 games we won. I just realized at the end of that period that I wasn't really good enough

to want to spend another two years in this endeavor that I had taken on some other things during that time academically. I was doing very well. And I shifted over to some other extracurricular activities. And one of them was speech and debate, which was something that really interested me.

And I became very good at that. And along with another partner, we traveled around the country in my junior and senior years in high school. And so that was an example of, yeah, I was doing okay with the football, but I just didn't think that was going to be, you know, that wasn't going to be the best thing I could do with my life. And some of these other things looked really fun and challenging, and they were sort of open-ended. But to get back to your point, when I went to college, I didn't have that structure around me that I did have in an all-boys school. It was pretty strict.

And I kind of wallowed around for a while trying to find where my challenges would be, what would be the best challenges for me. And it took me a while to feel that out. It worked out fine. And I got into all the right groups and societies and all that sort of thing. But it took a while. And when I went to law school, which I was very eager to go, that first year in law school was kind of like I was drifting too. Looking around, that's just really the right fit.

Am I, you know, where do I put my time? It took me a little bit of time to feel what you're talking about, to feel like I really had it. You know, I really, this was something I could really do well. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentous. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family,

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Or was it the mentors in your head, like mom and maybe mom's peer groups and dad or great men and women that you're, uh, had read about, like, how did you work through that phase of drifting? That is a hard one to deal with. I did not, I did not really have a lot of mentors and, um, that made it more difficult. I had mentors in high school, but I didn't have mentors in college or in law school. And so that was, I think that would have been good. I wasn't trying to find mentors, but it just so happened that I didn't have them.

Okay. I want to go back to debate for a question. What was the skill underneath debate or skills underneath debate that were organic to you, that felt natural, that you felt like, oh, there's something in this linguistic art that I could really or challenge that for people who are good speakers. And I got into that early when I was, you know, a little kid in grade school. So I, I liked public speaking. I mean, it wasn't like a dynamite person, but then you could not, that's, but I, in terms of high school and things, I got really good at it. And I enjoyed it. And it was captivating, especially the debate where you have a partner and you two can stay together. You go someplace, and they tell you there's four or five topics that you have to be able to speak on, and then they give you, okay, this is what you got.

You got this topic. You got nuclear energy. You got the bomb. You got nuclear energy, the bomb. You're pro or not con, and you have to defend that position, you and your teammate, against two other people. And that was very exciting to me. I got really into that, and I also spoke extemporaneously. That was a good one. And, and you, you would have a, you have to pick a topic and then, and, and you, you,

it was kind of directed, you have, you had choices of several topics, but then they would eventually tell you, this is the one you had to talk. Now you had to get up and speak, speak, you know, for, for 10 minutes on that, on that particular topic and be graded on it. So those things were, um, competitive. They were, um, I was using my mind that was skill oriented. Um, and that, that was, I felt like I was advancing myself and that it would help me,

you know, in my later part of my life. Um, and it did. Yeah, you know, in my later part of my life. And it did. Yeah, it definitely helped you probably with the law by understanding concepts at a deep level and then probably leadership in some of the large corporations that, you know, you're at the head of. That being said, what is your craft? Is it law or is it leading people is it setting vision and objectives and that people will follow like what would you say your craft is well i would say it's

all of the above and i i think that the the law helped a lot of giving me feeling comfortable in structure and developing structure and analyzing, you know, structure and dealing with people and leading people. Law itself is not a leadership program, but it does give you confidence. And if you choose to be a leader, that will help you. If you do not have to choose to be a leader and you could be more of an academic or pick one of the legal skills, which public speaking, again, would be another one of those choices. So I think they came together. They just came together. opportunity early on in my legal career to work with and for some very talented people.

So they weren't as much mentors as they were really solid people in their areas. And I never stayed in a situation where I didn't see that the people that I was working for had to be good. If they weren't good, then I wasn't going to be there. And I just feel that, you know, that rubs off. I worked for Jack Welch for 20 years, not always directly for him, but with him or next to him or near him in terms of responsibilities. And that was a wonderful, you know, a wonderful thing to deal with. And in the legal area, I had a very good guy. Actually, when he's down here now, he's almost 100 years old, one of the finest lawyers that

I ever was involved with. And he was great. He taught me a lot. So that was, that's not, you know, that's not the educational mentoring. That's the professional mentor mentoring. So the Jack has written, you know, on winning and leadership and obviously he's led a corporation, you know, to great success. And what, how do you characterize leadership? There's so many ways to think about it and define it, but what are the attributes or characteristics or

how do you think about leadership? Well, you, you have to be, um, you have, you, you have to be excited about accomplishing something that you can describe to other people. You have to be committed to achieving something that you are in position to get other people to join you. I mean, that's really what it's all about. In the case of business, there are business objectives. In the military, there would be military objectives. In the case of engineering, there would be engineering

achievements. But in business, and GE was such a big company that it had so many different businesses, the idea of the CEO, and Welsh in that case, that he was trying to set targets and markers in any number of different businesses. Now, that's very difficult to do. And that eventually, you know, just is almost impossible. But he certainly did it for a good number of years. And the company was big enough to support that. It's almost impossible. But he certainly did it for a good number of years. And the company was big enough and able to support that. But today, that company is going in another direction.

They're going back and saying, well, we can't support all those different activities. We've got to get an alignment here with three or four of our businesses and just drive them. And that's a perfectly good choice. It's a different choice though. But leadership comes from being able to create the target, the objectives, explain to people how, why they're there, and then explain how we're going to get there. In which case, where is your part in it? And then the execution becomes the critical issue, getting it done and having, you know, chopping it up into pieces that are bite size. People can, you know, recognize. But again, you know, this is a living entity and it's not a retirement home and it's not a,

it's not a hospital. It is, it's more, a little more like sports, as I would say, you know, the, the,

when they, when somebody wins a game, whether it's, you know, NFL or NBA, and they say, well, this is,

we did, we played great, but you know, we got to play on Thursday now. And we, that game is behind us. And we gotta, we gotta play just as well on Thursday here here we'll see what happens that sort of thing you know it's like when you're describing leadership some people it's when they're describing it they it sounds like it's academic and there's the seven characteristics of or the

you know the four character traits of the way you just described that was like, uh-oh, he's been in this for a long time. Like, pay attention because you just like organically understand it, that you were able to speak it so clearly. So that was cool for me to just listen to. Well, one of the things that I developed on the business side very, very early is that I had good ideas. I thought I had good ideas. I thought I could create good ideas in a business environment.

And I felt that I could achieve something with those ideas. And while people would say you can't really do entrepreneurial work inside of a large corporation, that's not really true at all. And I felt that I had some entrepreneurial aspirations and that if I was willing to surround myself with people who I could share those aspirations with, and they would work very hard with me. And if we could get the management above us to give us some room, we could achieve a lot. And the trick in those situations is if you are achieving a lot, don't lose it. It can be taken away from you by changes in management and so forth, and that's what you have to protect yourself with as much as you can.

I mean, you don't have a right to be able to do what you want, but you've got to constantly kind of develop, keep redeveloping whatever this is, this magic that you're doing, so that it doesn't get taken away and everybody can have an exciting environment. I think I did that pretty well with NBC as a large organization, but I did that well with some smaller organizations before that. So I had enough of that to know that it works, and I try the same thing today when I'm doing my not-for-profit groups. So I try to get them energized around doing something, really accomplishing things, and then supporting each other. And we have to make the budget or make the accomplishment or do whatever it is we need

to do in a timely manner. What is the hardest thing that you've experienced? Maybe there's a point in time that comes to mind when you think of the hardest thing about leading other people. Well, yes, it's hard. But again, if you're in a situation where you've accomplished things, now, if you've been in a situation where you've failed, then that's different. But if you've accomplished things, there is room to leave.

There is room to leave, and if you've left some good people behind you, you should feel comfortable that they're going to be able to continue if they want to. So I've never left anything like half hanging. The things where I left, I think we had really accomplished a great deal. And so I wasn't worried about what's going to happen to them. They were pretty good set up. When you think of the future, do you look at it through an optimistic lens or more of a pessimistic lens, like a protection lens or like, hey, it's going to work out, it's going to be great, so let's keep going?

No, I try to be very optimistic about it. I'm realistic, but I have to be optimistic because realism can kill you. Realism is what happens is you start being a realist. You're focusing on what's just like three days in front of you or four days in front of you. You get bogged down in the reality of everything begins to be frozen in time. I can't live in that kind of a world. Was it mom or dad or was there other folks that influenced you to be optimistic? Where did that framework come from for you? Well, I grew up at a point in time it wasn't the recession. It was where the country was growing dramatically. And there was an expectation that next week was going to be better than the week before. And that was the 1950s and the 60s and the the first really damage to that whole thing was the death of of kennedy for me

i was junior in college and when he was assassinated and that hit me really hard because you know he was he was you know at that time uh it all the all those things that were happening in the 50s and 60s he he was, he was showing everybody to sign up to him, move forward, move forward. And his death was a slowdown. And then the Vietnam War, that had a particular impact on me because I got drafted. And I was married at the time. I was a lawyer. I was 25 years old. And I fortunately didn't send me to Vietnam because they put me in a thing called civil affairs, a newly constructed arm of the army. And it was about going in and rebuilding towns

that had been captured or defeated, but were ready to be rebuilt. And I was in the Army from 1968 to 72, and that was a horrible period. And that's where pessimism really began to take place in the country, that we had made a terrible mistake. It was obvious we'd made a terrible mistake, and almost like we didn't know what we were doing. And we weren't willing to own up to get out of it. Nixon dragged his feet for at least two years of not getting out of Vietnam because they didn't want to share the embarrassment, the party didn't want to share the embarrassment

with the public that all those people who were screaming were right. We should have, we were in the wrong place at the wrong time. And that hurt a lot. The 70s were a much slower situation. Everything was different. The real answer to the optimist comes from the 50s and the 60s. Then the reality stuff comes in the 70s. I still try to find businesses, that's the ones I worked in, were all going really strong. So I was personally able to stay with the cheering side of the table as opposed to the woe is me group. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep.

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They've got some great new products I think you'll be interested in. A shampoo, conditioner, and a hair serum. With Calderdera lab it's not about adding more it's about choosing better and when your day demands clarity and energy and presence the way you prepare for it matters if you're looking for high quality personal care products that elevate your routine without complicating it i'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash finding mastery and use the code finding mastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash finding mastery. Have you found what you're searching for in life? And I'm thinking about the entire incredible journey that you've had, you know, from a young age that we've covered through college, through war,

through go back in time, actually with getting your law degree, then through war, then through business development and leading some of the largest companies in the country and to your non-for-profit ventures. Like, have you, I guess I don I guess I don't really know what you're searching for, so I don't want to beg that question yet, but have you found it? In my business life, I always like to take on projects that I thought were meaningful, that I could really do some good with, and I had to have the help in terms of people behind me and with me. And I've had a lot of success in different businesses in different areas.

When I got into autism, which was 2002, it was a very different angle because it affected my grandson, my first child, first grandson. And I traveled around the country and I couldn't believe what I found. These people did not have any insurance and they had no education credits. I mean, they couldn't get their children educated. And the work that the NIH was doing was not helping the research. So they were in a terrible situation and running their life on a credit card. And I found some friends of mine and we got together and we said, listen, we can,

one of the things we're going to do is we're going to get these people insurance. That became a very, very difficult project. We had to do a state by state, but we got 46 states provide insurance for people with autism. They're not perfect, but that gave them a lot of help. We also started to sue school districts because the law is clear that you have to provide an education comparable to the education that would be somebody that would be normal. It has to be appropriate. And they weren't doing that. And we sued him. And being a lawyer and attracting other lawyers, we won. We went to the Supreme Court on some cases. So we established clear, easy-to-guide guidelines. When we went to Congress for research, that was a very difficult process, too. We had to overcome not resistance from the NIH, but just lack of interest. And then when we won, I found out in the end,

that was the beginning of the problem because the money was all going to be spent by the NIH. And it's over a period of years, it's $3 billion. And we could not get any effective intervention in that. Not that we were better scientists, but they weren't making progress. And when you're not making progress, you've got to stop. And you've got to stop and you've got to replant and say, whatever we're doing here is not the right thing. And we had a fellow by the

name of Tom Insell. He was the head of the National Mental Health Institute in mental health. And he later came out just within the last year and said that, you know, the process that they were using didn't work. And a lot of money was wasted on mental health, including all the money that we put in. And so that, you know, that gave me, I just, you know, but what can I do? I was just very frustrated. When we got into pancreatic cancer, I have found a similar set of circumstances. They had, they were doing research, but nothing was happening. The same percentage of people were dying, 91% today,

that were diagnosed 20, 40 years ago. And they were spending a lot of money and doing nothing. So we said, we have to have a different way to do this. It can complement what they're doing on their bench chemistry. If they really think that's working, that's great. But we've got to get something. So we got into this issue of opening up a HARPA, which is a Health Advanced Research Projects Agency. It's the same thing that is DARPA is in the Department of Defense from 1958.

And what it is, it's a group that has a lot of autonomy, and they have a right to go in and do major projects of some difficulty, huge difficulty, and take it on. And they're fast failers, too. If they think they can't do it, they stop. But if they don't, they think they can keep on going. And I've got that in there now. I've persuaded a whole bunch of people, current and former presidential science advisors, people in Congress, scientists that are outside of it.

And I'm fighting now, again, the NIH. This time the NIH wants to control all the money and do it themselves. And they haven't been able to do it. And they're not going to do it because that's not their game. So here I am once again up against it. We'll see how well I do because it's very tricky. But those are the kinds of things you take on, and that creates a lot of time and energy and a lot of money to do that.

But, you know, the rewards on this one are enormous. We can reduce the rate of early detection. It's 85% in early detection die. In other words, there is no early detection. 85% are stage 4. That's just unbelievable. No other cancer is close to that. And so if we could take that down 10%, that's 5,000 people immediately.

Take it down 20%, it's 5,000 people immediately. Take it down 20%, it's 10,000 people immediately. So it's not as though there's not a pot of gold at the end of this, but it's going to be very hard to get to. But it's personal and it's engaging. And so that's what I do. So that's probably an answer to your question. Yeah, it really is. And the force that you have behind what you're working to do, it jumps through this conversation, right? Like some people call it passion, but the clarity that you have, the emotional passion that you have around it and the forcefulness in like, this is what we're going to do. And I'm up against it. It takes time and money and resources. And this is what I'm doing. So it's like you, it's a, it's a, you have to have passion of these things. You can't you it's a you have to have passion are these things you can't do these things you have to have passion okay where does all right so i know i know the

answer to this but i i want to ask it anyways like where does this passion specifically about pancreatic cancer come from for you oh it comes from being with my wife for nine months every day, watching her die, after consulting with the best scientists in the world all during the case and going through all the processes the Mayo Clinic has and Cornell has and other places, all the projects that they did, and they didn't have anything. They were like the—it was like Jack Nich, him flew over the cuckoo's nest where he's out the psychiatric ward and they're meeting the people and it's all, everybody's dressed beautifully. And he's there, he's so drugged up and he can't do anything. And they say,

well, he's coming along pretty well. It looks, looks pretty good to me. And I was listening to the sits. I'd say it's a, it's an artificial. If, if you're a, If you're doing cancer treatment and you've got time-related cancer, it's a kiss of death for your patients. And that should not be the case. It should not be acceptable by anybody. So that's the passion. I watched her die. And she died with my hands in her hands.

And I said, I can't let this just go another 40 years. So that's what I'm doing. Okay, thank you. And what do you want people to help with? How can people listening to this go, you know what? I have an aunt or an uncle that suffered from pancreatic cancer. Or you know what? That's atrocious. I'm a medical professional. that's atrocious that you're calling to light you know

like how could people help and what would you ask them to do well they they can help my um getting in touch with people in congress and so forth the real way to help is to get on my website which is it explains all this and it gives people a way to make donations. That would be helpful. It gives people a way to add commentary, to discuss issues, to ask for participation. What level do you want to participate at? Do you want to go to Washington? Do you want to be active in that sense? Do you have congressmen or senators or people like that, that you know, you know, like you've got to tell us and we'll tell you how to deal with them. So I'm, I need, you know, helpers and helpers are in the end are extremely important. Okay. Brilliant. What's the best website to go to? It's Code Purple, which is Suzanne Wright Foundation for Pancreatic Cancer.

There's two ways to get there. Code Purple is what it is. That'll get you there. And Suzanne Wright Foundation for Pancreatic Cancer. They'll take you to those two. Okay, great. You know, on that, so you obviously are mission-minded in your life. Is there a phrase or word that guides your life? And really what I'm trying to sort out is like, do you have a philosophy that guides your life? Well, I guess it's just two things. Two things. You have to have passion and you have to accept responsibility for what you want to accomplish. Those are the two things that guide me. Wake up in the morning. I can't say that the weather stopped me or something else. I just got to, I've got to accept the the responsibility. If I'm going to take on a challenge, I've got to accept the responsibility

that it's going to have to be me to make this work. And you have to have a lot of passion. Those are the two things. People want to think they expect responsibility, but they don't oftentimes. They'd rather watch others or they'd rather participate in some other way, and that's fine. But ask me what guides me. It's accepting responsibility and then moving ahead on it. Love it. Okay. So many of us live in a life that has incredible stress, and it's a function of wanting to do amazing things or and or know not having the mental skills to be able to deal with the stress in our lives the everyday stress and when have you ever gotten

to that place where you feel like you're going to break with all the things that you've done right like you've pushed into incredible leading roles uh from affecting the global rhythm of the world ge nbc like do you ever get to the point where you feel like you're about to break? Or is that like, no, that's not... Well, sure, I get... There are points where I'm not about to break necessarily. There are points where you can get really down. But you don't want to get down on yourself.

That's what I'm trying to say. You can't get down on yourself. And you just have to... What you can do is rethink the nature of the task. And you can say, hey, this was, I overreached. This is too big a task. The problems I have, there's a lot of things that are on my mind. And some of these things I'm putting off, and I know I don't like to put things off and sometimes I think I might just have to go and say okay I'm

gonna drop that from the list because I'm not able to get to it so I don't want to be I don't want to be whining about you know have not being able to do this that or that but so I keep my stress levels down by trying to make that make keep those lists short and but you have to walk away from some good options. You make mistakes doing that. Did you ever, like, I love to ask this question of extraordinary doers and thinkers. Did you ever, I don't know if it's did you ever, or have you experienced levels of doubt or fear that you didn't have what it took? And that's begging the question a little bit about like the imposter syndrome.

It's a real thing where we have this dialogue with ourselves that, man, I don't know. One day they just might find out that I'm not made for CEO. I'm not made for a chairman, but I'm above my pay grade and they put me here. So, you know, I'm going to figure it out. You know, have you ever wrestled with that or is that foreign to you? Well, I never really had that happen because I was always the one that was ambitious to get to that job. Yeah, good.

Okay. That will definitely help. I very seldom found myself in a job that was a great job that I didn't want to do. I felt myself sometimes in situations where I couldn't move forward quickly. That's a different issue. But not the way you described it. Okay, so on the motivation scale, if there was such a thing from one to ten,

are you high on motivation? Because you use the word ambition. You're really high on that motivation scale. Yeah. When you talk about mastery and things like that, to me that's ambition. That's ambition to accomplish something to a high level of achievement.

That's why I say it's a synonym for professional. Yeah, it sounds like you're more... Yeah, for sure. It sounds like you're more engaged in the internal reward of figuring things out and being at a high level as opposed to money and attention and fame and recognition mean, I've never tried to, you know, make that the whole reason of doing anything. And early on, it didn't motivate me as much as getting some level of achievement. I always figured if you did get that level of achievement, you're going to get the money. And it did work out. That's awesome.

Okay, so of these mental skills skills like which one is more important having a high level of confidence being able to be calm in intense moments using imagery to plant successful thoughts and images in your mind having clear goals living with passion like what what are the ones that are most important to you well they're they all come to mind. I mean, I would never reject any of those. I may not be able to use them all at the same time, but I mean, those are all very solid points. They're crutches to do these things. Having confidence is critical.

You mentioned it first having confidence is critical so you put you mentioned it first it is critical now you can you can build up confidence you know over time like i build up confidence in my legal thing that that took me some time uh and um but you can't but you have to have the confidence uh you know you need to find some victories for yourself to give you confidence. Because confidence exudes. Other people see it, and they're more likely to follow you. Are you more self-critical or self-positive? I'm both.

I am both. I try to be about 70% positive, but there's 30% of me that's critical. And when you have that critical dialogue going on, what do you do with it? It's always in my head. That meeting didn't go well. What did I screw up there? Why did I do that? Why did I think that was going to work? But I try not to let it... I try to have a very quick discussion on that front. Not drag it out. But I am critical.

Now, it depends on what kind of work you do. I'm now working a lot myself with people and so forth, and I have to be very critical about is this really working well? Am I doing this correctly? And so forth. I think you have to have a certain dosage of that. Where does pressure come from? I think it comes from unexpected challenges. Things that are unexpected can create a lot of pressure. And that's my number one thing. Pressure comes from having accepted a challenge and being not sure you could do it. That would create pressure.

And then on paper, you have this incredible success rate and record of success. And if we go a layer deeper than that, how do you define or think about success? Success is, is that I have tried to, to reach some level of achievement and I got there. That's, that's for me a success. That could be a small thing. It could be a big thing. Also personally, I, I never lost my family in this process um and i coached games i want to you know theater with people i did i did i tried to spend as much time with my which my three children growing up and my wife as i possibly could and i brought them into my

my life when i couldn't um and that was very helpful. So I today have six grandchildren, and we're all very close, and that part of my life is very successful. I love that you added that. That's really cool. I think about that piece so much. They're all still married to each other, too. Okay.

How do you finish these two words? I am very happy. Yeah, that's a really cool way to end that. All right. Bob, if you had the chance to sit down across in a great conversation with somebody who's a master of craft, is there one question that you would want to ask them? And I'm thinking like a Leonardo da Vinci, you know, best of the best of the best. Like, is there a question that you'd really like to sort out with them? Well, I would probably ask them if they are successful. Did they achieve what they wanted to achieve?

Because you're talking about people like that that achieve so much. And it's hard to say what their goals were. And I'm reinterested to know if did you achieve what you wanted to? And that would be an interesting question for me. No matter what they did. Yeah, it sounds like you would say that you have in your life based on your definition of success. Yeah, it sounds like you would say that you have in your life based on your definition of success. Yeah, I have. Most people, your peers or people that you run with, so to speak, are they successful?

On paper, right? It's great. But using your lens and definition, are most of your peers successful? Well, like, you know, that's really a personal question. Yeah, you can't. Yeah, they have to answer it, right? Yeah, right, right, right, right. Well, that's really a personal question. very successful or prominent that would maybe surprisingly good. So I think you, again, I would say what, you know, what, what, you know, how close did you get to success or did you get there? I mean, you're talking about artists or people like that, that are, you know, such at a sexual level. Yeah. Okay. Just two,

two more quick little questions about the next generation is, what do you hope they get right? Well, I just hope that they adapt to the world around them. It changes the world around them, and then do their very best to improve that world, whatever they think that is. Very cool. And if there was one habit or one belief system or one thought that you could drop in to the next generation or like you could even make it more granular like your grandkids, is there one that comes to mind that you would hope they could apply? A belief, a thought, or a habit? Well, have passion for something very important. They have to just find out what that is for them. Don't lose track of what's important.

Okay. Bob, code purple. Thank you very much. Code purple, right? Let's get people rolling there. And I just want to say thank you for your time. Thank you for all of this. So I hope you have the best success in your passions here. Thank you. Thank you for all of this. So I hope you have, you know, the best

success in your passions here. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Bye. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify. We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're looking for even more insights,

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