Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Bring Your Attention In Line with Your Intention | Dr. Pedram Shojai

Episode Date: October 14, 2020

This week’s conversation is with Dr. Pedram Shojai, a Doctor of Oriental Medicine, Master Herbalist and acupuncturist.Pedram is the New York Times bestselling author of The Urban Monk and The Art of Stopping Time.He is an acclaimed Qigong Master and Taoist Abbot with a practical approach to modern living, using Eastern thinking and practices to help himself and others overcome the Westernized challenges of everyday life.His upcoming book, FOCUS: Bringing Time, Energy and Money into Flow, is about bringing your attention in line with your intention to get the life you want, and will release November 10, 2020. In this conversation, we talk about strategies for improving focus and getting the most out of each day.For Pedram, it comes down to prioritizing what's most important and implementing a practice of life gardening.You get a certain amount of plants. You say you want them watered. You say they're important to you. How is the allocation of your water?_________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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stay present and engaged with my thinking and writing. If you wanna slow down, if you wanna work smarter, I highly encourage you to check them out. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and grab your paper pro today. Attention and focus are so sparse as a currency in a culture where information wars and social media and everything is trying to grab your attention and use it to manifest the world that they want versus the world that you choose that, you know, a big part of my movement now has all been about bringing focus back because without focus, you're lost. And without, I mean, things don't happen. Things don't manifest without the fusion of attention and intention.

Intention, you'll bank up some energy and be like, damn it, that's it. I'm going to lose 30 pounds. It's New Year's. I'm going to stop this. I'm going to stop that. And then your focus is just not there. And so you just squander the energy and it's over. Intention with attention together, you're a force of nature. Okay, welcome back, or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm Michael Gervais. By trade and training, I'm a sport and performance psychologist. And the whole idea behind this

podcast, behind these conversations, is to learn from people who have committed their life efforts towards mastery. And what does that mean? It means that they have dedicated their life to the deep understandings of self and or craft. We want to understand how they organize their inner life so that we can better organize our own inner life. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions.

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In other words, it's not about more outreach. It's about smarter, more human outreach. And that's something here at Finding Mastery that our team lives and breathes by. If you're ready to start building stronger relationships that actually convert, try LinkedIn Sales Navigator for free for 60 days at linkedin.com slash deal. That's linkedin.com slash deal for two full months for free. Terms and conditions apply. Finding Mastery is brought to you by David Protein. I'm pretty intentional about what I eat and the majority of my nutrition comes from whole foods. And when I'm traveling or

in between meals on a demanding day, certainly I need something quick that will support the way that I feel and think and perform. And that's why I've been leaning on David protein bars. And so has the team here at Finding Mastery. In fact, our GM, Stuart, he loves them so much. I just want to kind of quickly put them on the spot. Stuart, I know you're listening. I think you might be the reason that we're running out of these bars so quickly. They're incredible, Mike. I love them. One a day, one a day. What do you mean one a day? There's way more than that happening here. Don't tell. Okay. All right. Look, they're incredibly simple. They're effective. 28 grams of protein, just 150 calories and zero grams of sugar. It's rare to find something that fits so conveniently

into a performance-based lifestyle and actually tastes good. Dr. Peter Attia, someone who's been on the show, it's a great episode by the way, is also their chief science officer. So I know they've done their due diligence in that category. My favorite flavor right now is the chocolate chip cookie dough. And a few of our teammates here at Finding Mastery have been loving the fudge brownie and peanut butter. I know, Stuart, you're still listening here. So getting enough protein matters. And that can't be understated, not just for strength, but for energy and focus, recovery,

for longevity. And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash Finding Mastery. So this week's conversation is right down that lane with Dr. Pedram Shojai. He's a doctor of oriental medicine, a master herbalist, as well as an acupuncturist. So Pedram is the New York Times bestselling author of The Urban Monk and The Art of Stopping Time.

This is where it gets super interesting because he's an acclaimed Qigong master and Taoist abbot, using Eastern thinking and practices to help himself and others overcome the westernized challenges of everyday life and to wake up and to live life to its fullest. So his upcoming book, Focus, Bringing Time, Energy, and Money into Flow, is about bringing your attention in line with your intention to have the life you want. And that book is released later this year, November 10 of 2020. And in this conversation, we talk about strategies for getting better at focusing and getting the most out of your day. And with that, let's jump right into this week's conversation with Dr. Pedram Shojai. How are you? Fantastic. Good to be here.

Yeah. I'm stoked to spend some time with you. And you check all the boxes for me to be super excited about this conversation. So if we could do a high flyover right now, what are the main chapter titles of your life? Stop taking yourself so seriously. You got to slow down to speed up. You're going to die. to speed up. Um, you're gonna die. So enjoy today, right? Um, be kind, water all your plants and remember, um, you know, today's just another day and things can end very quickly and things can become magical in an instant, right? Like you, you could be, you know, kicking around living a day and, you know, something magical wisps you away into just a complete adventure. Or you get a car

accident and, you know, you're laid up with a, you know, with your leg up in the air and, you know, all that happens like this. And, you know, it all happens while we're taking ourselves so seriously and so caught up in our circumstances. I don't know. That's a few chapters, I guess. I knew you were going to go to deep quickly. But at the same time, like evidenced by your laugh right now, there's a lightness about how you approach life. And so what I hear you saying is the fragility of the present moment is real.

And so get caught up in it a little bit. And at the same time, don't be whisked away by the, I don't know, kind of the things that could happen or have happened. Right? That whole kind of idea of the past and the present. So, do you consider yourself to be more intense and serious or more whimsical and playful or somewhere in between there? Depends on what time of day you ask me, really, right? I mean, I have my kind of start-stop cycles. When I'm, you know, busy trying to hatch an egg, I'm pretty intense and serious.

And, you know, once I'm on the other side of whatever that is, I'm just a goofball. And that'll happen in rhythms throughout the day with just like going out, taking a break, playing with the kids who happen to be everywhere now, you know, to, you know, going off and spending six weeks in Italy after a big project and not thinking about work for a minute, you know, and, and enjoying the wine. So, you know, for me, it's, it's kind of start stop cycles. It's almost like gardening, right? Like there's a harvest, then you,

you relax, right? More. Okay. All right. So let's go back in time for just a minute for a little bit of context. And we're going to double click on all of those high notes that you just described. But if we go back in time, how'd you grow up? I mean, how do you get exposed to Taoism? And I get often asked, like, what are some of my favorite books? Dao Te Ching is one of them, flat out. I was exposed to it in college. And it was a small little weird course that I think there was like 15 people that were hand selected for this quote unquote leadership experience. And it was two hippies that took us to the bottom, professors, but took us to the bottom of the Grand Canyon with a book and empty pages in a journal and a pencil and everything we needed to survive for a week.

So whatever we packed in, we had to pack out. And the book was the Tao Te Ching. And so how about that for like a 19-year-old? Yeah. And so there's 12 of us or whatever. It might have been a few more. But you know what we did? Is they said they're so smart. They set it up in a way. They said,

okay, you're on your own. And we all knew that. But then when we got down at the bottom, they said, uh, we forgot to mention that nobody can see each other. And so we had to go find a place that we can't see another human. And so talk about like, go figure some stuff out, whether you wrote, didn't write, read, didn't read. That was the resource, the Tao Te Ching and all of your history, you know, infused with mother nature. So I've got a special place for the 81 principles. And so, but I'm, I'm not, you know, a Taoist monk.

So I'm super stoked to sit with you and understand what led you to this practice, this way of living. So go back into early life. I mean, was mom and dad, were they monks? Did you trip into this by some accident? Like how did it work for you? Yeah, more of the latter. I mean, look, a refugee of the Iranian revolution, my parents, you know, got us the heck out of there and said, you know what, I don't know what that is, but that ain't God, right? Go find God yourself. You know, we had uncles killed in the revolution and, you know, serious stuff. And so I grew up kind of non-religious, non-denominational, any of it. And, you know, as an immigrant kid, it's like, you know, you could be a doctor, lawyer, or an engineer. And so figured out the school thing, you know, just shot through high school,

ranked number one straight to UCLA, going to be a doctor, and became very disenchanted with my experience in, you know, kind of the medical system there. I was interning and just, you know, surrounded by egomaniacal attending physicians and students that are cheating and trying to one-up each other at any cost to get the grades and get up there. I was just like, wow, I thought we were here to help people. Okay. Hold on. Hold on. All right. Were you in Iran? I was born there. I left when I was three. Okay. Iran or Iran? Iran. Iran. Okay. Thank you. Iran. Were you all Zoroastrian before the Arabs took over, right, and forced by sword into Islam. And then, very secular, my dad studied in Germany,

and very secular society, very kind of cosmopolitan society at the time. Then all of a sudden, and there's a huge history behind this, which is probably beyond the scope of this, but you know, there was a CIA driven coup that put the Ayatollah in because the Shah didn't want to give away too many concessions on oil and radical Islamofascism, which was developed at the time, took Iran by storm. And all of a sudden you got these radical Islamic guys basically beheading

people in the street and saying, this is what we do. And my parents were like, we're out of here. This is crazy. Right. And so Islam, Islam gone wrong is what happened in Iran. Right. Never heard that phrase, but yeah. All right. So, so we're, let me just get a little bit more tone. So parent, your parents are some risk takers in their own right. They're like, maybe it's a forced risk that they took, but they're like, we're not staying. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the greater risk was to stay. But in my mind, maybe the romantic part of this is that there was chaos and the two heroes of your parents said, okay, family, we're going to take the risk and get out of here. And we're going to drop what we own and go on

this radical, scary adventure to this new land. 100%. My dad was, you know, when you're a civil engineer in a developing country, he had a limousine that would take him to a helicopter that would take him to places. He couldn't spend money faster than he made it. I mean, we were affluent from a single generation. Like my grandparents were just normal people, but my dad became a civil engineer. He worked his tail off and all of a sudden he was getting paid hand over fist to like develop a developing country. And he came over here, had a spine surgery, unfortunately from an injury, and then was managing a Carl's Jr. All to push that into the next generation to give us a future and not

have us grow up under that. Whoa. All right. How old were you when you left? Three. What do you remember? I mean, you think they're memories, but they're actually just pictures you saw on an album, like nothing. Let's say you embodied something. What did you embody from pre three, three, and then kind of pre 13, you know, or three to 13, let's just kind of chunk it up a little bit. Cause I think then the reason I want to go here with you is because like where you've arrived is of wisdom, insight, the value of the present moment, and a particular way of living well, right? And so I want to get to like what formed that because there are so many of us that are

saying, I want that, but then are looking for shortcuts, hacks, seven steps, tricks, tips, which you would, I'm sure recognize that none of that shit works. Like there isn't any. So I want to get to the fundamental, how you organize your life. That's why I'm asking about Zoroastrianism, if that's part of your essence, if you will, or is it more Islam? And then, but let's go pre three, what you think you embodied and then that transition phase. I mean, pre three, it's easy living, right? Easy street. Then suddenly you are transplanted to a country during a hostage crisis where you're not really particularly liked with parents who hardly speak the language and you don't speak the language at all. And you go from being, you know, little Persian prince to complete brown kid outsider in white schools.

Now you're talking about the USA. Yeah. Yeah. From three. I mean, I had three, I mean, from, from zero to three, it was just, you know, eating and getting driven around and, you know, being, being a kid. You were on the making of a soft underbelly, my friend. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I would have been one of those. Okay. Good. All right. All that scrappiness came from the stars realigning pretty quickly. Right. Okay.

Yeah. It was, it was silver spoons and, you know, pretty easy living under dad's umbrella and then, you know, hit reset and go figure it out. Learn a language, learn how to fight, right. Learn how to adapt, learn how to have a storefront that was acceptable as an immigrant to a very interesting society that forgot about its own roots. I mean, America is about scrappy immigrants learning how to adapt and survive and find that, right? And we got lazy and here we are, right? But I got to live the American dream. You can say that okay and then there's another narrative obviously that's running which is like it's significantly harder to be black and brown uh bipoc if you will in america and um so so but i don't i don't see that yes i i yes i agree but i also don't see that as

a victim i see that as the opportunity to harden, you know, the literal translation of Kung Fu is hard work. It was an opportunity to harden my experience and develop entrepreneurial chops and develop all sorts of skills that I would not have been able to develop having, you know, had life handed to me in a different way. Right. So it was a, it was a learning opportunity and it made me the man I am today. Okay. And then super practical, right. And high agency, right? Like you have, you have high agency. You're like, well, I'm going to actually experience life the way that I want to experience it. Even if the conditions are hard or soft or whatever they, uh, I'm presented with. Okay.

So if there was a core message, and I don't know why I picked 13, just because there's a bunch of threes in there. But if there was a core message early age, what were those things that were handed to you, installed? What was the main messages around the dinner table? Whatever. Pre-13? Yeah, whatever. Pre-13? Yeah, exactly. I think pre-13 it was, you know, be a good person, enjoy your childhood.

It's just, you know, the four of us, take care of your sister, big family values and love. Post-13, the narrative changed, right? Became work your ass off, you got to be somebody, right? But pre-13, it was a lot of, you know, family hugs and kisses, which was great. Was it mom or dad or like, were they a unified voice? They were unified. You know, dad was tough. Dad was out there, you know, trying to figure out

how the hell to feed us. And mom was home, you know, helping us, you know, learn English and do the school thing and figure out the America thing. Very loving, both. Yeah, very loving. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentous. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday, what you put in your body matters and that's why i trust momentous from the moment i sat down with jeff byers their co-founder and ceo i could tell this was not your average supplement company and i was immediately drawn to their mission helping people achieve performance for life and to do that they developed what they call the momentous standard. Every product is formulated with top experts and every

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how we can create the conditions for high performance. How do we protect our ability to focus, to recover, to be present? And one of the biggest challenges we face today is our about how we can create the conditions for high performance. How do we protect our ability to focus, to recover, to be present? And one of the biggest challenges we face today is our sheer amount of screen time. It messes with our sleep, our clarity, even our mood. And that's why I've been using Felix Grey glasses. What I appreciate most about Felix Grey is that they're just not another wellness product. They're rooted in real science. Developed alongside leading researchers and ophthalmologists, they've demonstrated these types of glasses boost melatonin, help you fall asleep faster, and hit deeper stages of rest.

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to FelixGray.com and use the code FindingMastery20 at checkout. Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y.com and use the code FindingMastery20 at FelixGray.com for 20% off. How do you find Taoism? Fast forward college, right? So post 13, it was like, you better figure out how to be successful because we sacrificed a lot for you guys, right? So no guilt there. But then, you know, go figure it out. And then I figured out sometime around ninth grade that, wow, all I have

to do is get good grades and they all just shut up and leave me alone. Easy, easy fix. So I just became a straight A student, never got to be from that moment on in high school and just, you know, was ranked number one in high school and hung out with everybody and figured it out, right? It's just problem solving. And then got to college, went on this kind of track of like, now I'm going to be a doctor and then hit this dark night of the soul of, wow, this sucks. I don't want this. I never really had to think about my life. I just, you know, followed these footsteps because I was told that's what the narrative is. And now I actually have to think about it. Right. And so had a crisis, asked God for help. I was walking through the university research library at UCLA,

having a conversation in my own head about, wow, I'm really confused. I don't know what to do. If you're out there, I could sure use a clue right now. And a book fell out of a bookshelf. Wait a minute. I've read this movie. Right? read this movie right it it was it's so like it was so like hollywood that i just assumed can i cuss on your show yeah yeah yeah i just assumed one of my friends heard my thought and was fucking

with me right and i was just like come on right like you know i'm just a biology science guy right just kind of doing my thing i I mean, we all grew up watching Star Wars, so I knew all the Jedi narrative, but you know, that was the other life. And so I walked up, looked at this book and it was about this Taoist master leading his disciples across a raging river by connecting his lower energy center and breathing with them. I'm like, what is this? But because books typically don't fall out of bookshelves when you ask God for questions, I was just like, I mean, if I don't take this as a sign, I guess I'm an idiot. So I took the book home. It's called The Wandering Taoist. Read it that night. Found a Taoist school,

you know, a couple days later in LA, North Hollywood. Walked in there and the teacher walked across all the students when I was, and my buddy, Jason, who came with me, walked across, everyone came straight up to me and says, I've been expecting you. And you know, that's like, come on part two, right? Where I'm just like, come on, like, what is this? Right. And, and, you know, I basically just kind of like stumbled, if you will, into a lineage. He was a senior student of a taoist abbot who was off-premises when the communists showed up and burned down the temple and killed all the other monks and um you know he got they smuggled him to chinatown and he became the senior teacher of my teacher and then

i started studying with him i just got pulled into a taoist lineage of qigong and alchemy and all kinds of crazy stuff was not part of the plan man was not part of the plan my parents freaked out oh they did because yeah they're like what you're you did all this to become a doctor now you're gonna be like a hippie witch guru whatever like what are you crazy and so you know there's some concessions made but um it was i had to do it i had to do it all right and then i i don't think I've ever talked about this. Um, I was in, this is, I'll actually have talked about this once, but I think you'll appreciate it is that my mother-in-law, um, my wife is, my wife's family's from Cuba. And so, you know,

all the fire that you could ever conjure up and imagine. And so she says, you know, she goes, Mike, uh, what do you think about this? You know, what's it called? When people read each other, like not mystics. Telekinesis? No, not, no, not quite that. Oh, gosh, I'm blanking on the word. But when people can read energy and, and that thing, and I'm like, oh, it's just master manipulation. They're just picking up micro expressions, please. I'm, no, I'm not into it. So she kept wanting me to go do this thing that she has found this to be amazing. And I'm like, please bring some science. And then we'll have this conversation. And she goes, there's no science. Like, God, how do you go through life being a

skeptic? And I really wasn't, but I was just prefer science. I prefer like something that has a little bit more, um, groundedness to it. And so finally we got in this big fight and she says, I'm not talking to you about this again. Forget it. We're never having this conversation again until you show up. That's it. And you're lost. And I was like, oh, I forget it. Screw you. You know, like, okay, I'll show up. And so the idea was that everyone shows up. There's the person, the energy reading person isn't in the room yet. I can't believe I'm talking about this story. And we all bring a flower and we hold this flower on our lap. Long story short, he's not even there. No one knows what flower I brought up.

We're huddled around a circle. He walks in, he goes, you guys ready? He goes, I'm just going to read whatever I feel. And I don't know if it's right or wrong, but I just have this ability to tap in. I'm like, Oh God, here we go. Really? Here we go. Yeah. And so he picks up my flower and everyone's eyes are closed, you know, and, uh, picks up my flower and, uh, he holds it for a minute and he goes, Oh, we have a skeptic in the room. And I opened my eye, like one of my eyes, and I look, and everyone else is looking at me like, see, like I told you he's good, and then so this is the point of the story. He goes on and says, okay, so this person has three philosophical notes that are really important, and he's going to combine them in a unique way. I said, oh, that's interesting. Psychology, spirituality, and movement. I was like,

god damn, really all three of those, that's good. And so that's essentially where I am right now, you know, paying attention to all three of those and the integration of it. So I don't know what to say about these things falling off shelves and these people reading energies because I just want to say it's BS. I'm much more comfortable with science, but there is something that you and I have shared there, which is like, what is that? Here's the thing. Don't ask me to explain it. Don't ask me how it happened, but I can't deny the fact that it did. So as a scientist, it's now a data point that is just inconveniently there, right? It's like, okay, now what?

That is either the strangest of coincidences that it was leading the witness to a path that became self-fulfilling or whatever, or complete happenstance. But at the moment I was asking for advice, it landed in the form of Taoism. And so I took it and ran. How do you describe Taoism that are not familiar with the quote unquote religion? I know. Yeah, I'm more of a philosophical Taoist than a religious Taoist, which is basically philosophy of balance, of harmonizing with nature, which is from where we come, and really understanding that our essential mind, our true mind is of nature and can be resolved in all of its complexity back to simplicity of just kind of the polarities of yin and yang and balance in life. And it plays out in every instance of every life that you see. And, you know, it's just, it's an operating system that brings us back to balance. When done right,

Taoists are very happy people, right? They're very laissez-faire. They're very, you know, go with the flow. And I've been around a lot of Taoists. Some of them are considered like crazy. They're just like, so they're almost like wild, right? Yeah, very cool. And the Zen riddle that sits in the center of so much of it is beautifully complicated and to get to the simplicity of it, you know, like the way that can be named

is not the way, like what, you know? But it's awesome when you double click underneath of it on that point anyone who's had a mystical experience will concur instantly you know whether you're in deep meditation prayer ayahuasca some you know amazing out-of-body experience and falling in love or whatever words cannot grasp the magnitude of it and it's not even worth talking about, right? And people write volumes around it, but unless you experience it, nothing, you can't. Love, flow, whatever it might be, period. And that's why I've dedicated my life efforts to help people live in the present moment,

but more importantly, to increase the frequency of them living in the present moment, but more importantly, to increase the frequency of them living in the present moment. Because if we can increase that frequency, the amount of time they spend there, then life transforms. It's where wisdom is revealed. It's where all things that are good, beautiful, and true are experienced. It's also where high performance is revealed. And that's kind of like the small hook to bring the modern human in is like, okay, you want to be better at what you're doing. Well, we'll show you how to live in the present moment. But that's also where all the other really good, amazing stuff is. And it is, I'm more interested in concepts that fall far below the words to describe them.

And those are the hard things to talk about. Psychology is a hard problem in life. What is it? What is the mind? What is consciousness? How do we organize our inner life? It's one of the hard problems. And left unexamined, I think you'd recognize, we become a little bit of the whip's end to the stressors of our environment, which is a brutal way to go through life. And so, yeah, brutal. Have you struggled with anxiety,

depression, addictions? Have you struggled in any part of your life there? Did you find Taoism in a way that it's like, no, I think I skirted some of this stuff? Yeah, the latter. I mean, listen, you know, micro addictions are everywhere. I mean, you could say I got caught up in a video game called civilization in college and, you know, little things like that, but nothing, nothing, no substance abuse, no clinical depression or any of that. I mean, I've had tragedies in my life. I've had, um, propriety around certain grieving, you know,

with people dying and all that, but I've, you know, I've, I have sidestepped that bullet. Um, and a lot, I mean, I have plenty of reasons to be anxious and depressed. Right. So I, I feel like that thing does work, right? Like it does work. And, you know, there's days I got to take more time to breathe. Because if you get, you know, if you don't paddle into that wave fast enough, you're in the whitewater and it's going to hurt. Hey, bruh, don't be here.

The cheesy of all cheesy movies, that line, right? Okay. All right. So cool. Let's do, let's go, let's get out of the esoteric for a moment and go incredibly practical with a couple of takeaways so that people that don't necessarily appreciate the, the flavor of the esoteric and go, okay, well, how do I get some of that? So what are some of the core principles or philosophies that are guiding your thoughts, words, and actions? And what are some of the practices that you say above all, like, I don't know where I'd be without these practices. And maybe I'm not practicing them like to the letter of whatever that I once did or wish I would, but what are some core philosophies that

are important to you? And then what are some practices? I think the first one we mentioned coming into this was the literal translation of Kung Fu is hard work. Life is hard work. And if your operating system doesn't understand that life itself is hard work, it's toil, whether it's, you know, you're a plant trying to grow up through the permafrost and, you know, gets the light of day and push your roots down and survive, or, you know, being an immigrant kid or being someone who's in your shoes listening to this right now. If you don't understand that life is hard work, then life is harder for you and you're back on your heels. And so the

operating system is one of constant examination, improvement, and betterment of your positioning in life. And I don't think it's an addition process. I think it's a subtraction process. I think getting out of your own way and, you know, finding the simplicity and looking for the Pareto's principle, if you will, of where your energy is best spent needs to be is something that I think people lose track of. I mean, I call it a practice of life gardening where, look, you get a certain amount of plants. You say you want them watered. You say they're important to you. How is the allocation of your water? Your water is your time, your money, and your energy.

And so you say your family is important to you, but whenever the kid comes up with the thing he colored, you're like, not now. I don't have time for you. Or you say your health is important, but you'll get around to it after this next project and you've gained 40 pounds and you're not sleeping and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Like, come on, let's take a realistic look at like how you have to curate this thing called life that somehow operates on these gnomes of this thing called time and, and pace yourself in a way where you don't get, um, you don't run out of breath, right? You don't get over your skis. There's so many ways to say it, but really create an operating system that allows for you to drip, irrigate all the plants, all the things that you say are important to you. And if you're finding that you just don't have enough water, then guess what? Here come vitalistic practices. Here comes changing your diet. Here comes exercising better. Here comes optimizing your mind-body practices to slow down. There's a lot of ways to gain efficiency. But if you're not curating how life is going to flow, you know, give or take, you know, some room for magic to happen, then you're not focused enough to be directing your life and you're, you know, tumbling in the white water wondering what happened. And so, you know, I've actually found very practical application of all this mystical stuff. I mean, look, I make four or five films a year. I have four books coming out. I run

three companies. Like I'm not some dude that's just sitting here rubbing patchouli on myself. Like I'm actively testing these principles in a very busy life and have been doing so successfully for years. It's really, you know, put your money where your mouth is. Like if this stuff works, it should work in a busy urban life, not just running for the hills and the mountains. It's one of the key questions that I wanted to ask you, which is like, how have you done so much in your life? And it sounds like what you've said is that you're watering the stuff that matters most to you. And you are replenishing that stream on a day-to-day basis, right? So you're not depleting the fountain, if you will, or the bucket that you're pouring from. And those practices, now we're going to get down

into the practices, but is the philosophy hard work? Life is hard? Or is the philosophy that hard work will carry you through the experiences, the hard experiences of life? Like, how do you finish that thought? Yeah. So when I ask another martial artist, how's your Kung Fu? I'm not asking them who he got to beat up this week. I'm asking them how he's managing the interface of life and whether he's standing on top in a calm, relaxed, ready position for life to throw anything at him, or if he's ducking and taking haymakers, right? And so how's your Kung Fu really applies to how you can apply your perspective and your operating system on life, your outlook on life in a way that metabolizes and digests stressors and events and news to feed your dharma, to feed your path, to feed your

passions versus sitting there going, oh man, Trump said that, Pelosi said that, I quit, right? And it's just, there's too much, there's too much red team, blue team, there's too much data that just knocks people off their perch. And so how do you stay on your perch and be a master of your own life? That's, that's the philosophy of Kung Fu, right? Is, is to be a warrior, not take everything as a blessing or a curse, but as a challenge, right? That's a Castaneda line that's always stuck with me. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day.

And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised me the most is how much it actually helps regulate temperature. I tend to run warm at night and these sheets have helped me sleep cooler and more consistently, which has made a meaningful difference in how I show up the next day for myself, my family, and our team here at Finding Mastery. It's become part of my nightly routine. Throw on their lounge pants or pajamas, crawl into bed under their sheets, and my nervous system starts to settle. They also offer a 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty on all of their bedding,

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of my body. I've been using Caldera Lab for years now. And what keeps me coming back, it's really simple. Their products are simple and they reflect the kind of intentional living that I want to build into every part of my day. And they make my morning routine really easy. They've got some great new products I think you'll be interested in. A shampoo, conditioner, and a hair serum. With Caldera Lab, it's not about adding more. It's about choosing better. And when your day demands clarity and energy and presence,

the way you prepare for it matters. If you're looking for high quality personal care products that elevate your routine without complicating it, I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash finding mastery and use the code finding mastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash finding mastery. Okay. My philosophy, my core philosophy in life is that every day is an opportunity to create a living masterpiece. And then, you know, from that, I get to define what a living masterpiece is. Right. And, but I'm seeing as an opportunity and it's really, if I was to change one word in there, it would be co-create. But, um, so that's how I think about relationships with self, others, and nature.

Um, okay. So, so when we, when you double click underneath it for you, is that, is what are the practices that help you create a living masterpiece day to day, um, in and out? Every day, if you don't stop and drink from infinity you've missed it and so you know the problem with time is it marches on and it feels compressed and it just you you're in the you're in the white water of it and the practices i mean look i used to just kind of like dismissively be like oh yeah well you know you should also you know consider trying to meditate like that's cool and everyone's like yeah yeah cool i've heard that you know give me some more information that I'm not going to do anything about. And I've really come full circle to say, man, you know what, if you can't take the time to breathe and meditate and do the

things that we know work, I can't help you, man. Right? Like it's, it's that, it's that stark. And I've seen it over tens of thousands of students and patients. And, you know, I got enough data points now to be like, look, the people that do the work are the people that reap the benefits. It's really that clear. I get up, I do 20 minutes of Qigong before I even pee in the morning. I sit down and meditate. I gather my thoughts.

I take a break at 11 to 12 and like work out and, you know, do my thing. I go take calls on hikes and meditate and Qigong at night again. I mean, yeah, that's an incredible inconvenience for a guy that could be binge watching Yellowstone. But it's what works and it's what fuels me and it's what keeps me calm and collected and being the dad and the husband and the CEO and whatever the hell else I do all day every day without spinning out and letting the circumstances knock me off my perch, right? I do the work, and the work serves me. And that work is drinking from infinity. Is that how you said it? Yeah. I mean, whether you're doing Indian yoga or shamanic practice or, you know, whatever,

neurofeedback, I don't care, but you got to stop and drop out of that beta high beta wavelength in your brain and pop in the clutch alpha go into theta drop into delta. I mean, there's all sorts of language around this. I don't have to be mystical. I've owned brain labs and, and, you know, there we, we understand, we absolutely understand the mechanism behind a lot of this stuff. But you know what? I have never, ever, ever found a shortcut short of doing the work in one form or another that actually works. Right. And everyone's like, Oh, I'm just going to listen to 300 more podcasts and get more confused. It's like, dude, just meditate. Right. Like just do the work. I don't know what to tell you. So for, for folks that like that like the science, the sciencey stuff

here, the alpha, beta, theta, you know, and delta. Delta is deep sleep. Theta is the phase right before sleep. These are called electrical brain patterns. Beta is like a high alert, high on. And alpha is this cruise control type of attentional focus. And when you are a tuning fork for your own inner life as it relates to your external world, you can actually figure out how to toggle up and down between those different states. And delta is obviously the easy one. You just hit that thing when you fall asleep. Surprisingly enough, though, there are people that actually have a lot of delta when they're awake, which is a problem. So it's like these little micro-naps that people fall into when they're exhausted.

It's super rare, but that's a problem. And I think some people can relate to it. But the idea that you got to do the work, people say, okay, right, but I don't have time. Or they say, okay, right. Well, what I've heard about meditation for whatever, whatever, like it's been around and good science. And, but you know what, I'm just not good at it. And before you answer the question here is that it's one of the five pillars. So Coach Carol and I built this online program to help people train their mind, what we've learned from science and sport for folks that are in the business world. It's one of the five. Self-discovery is one. I think you'll appreciate it. Two is psychological skills, right? So calm, confidence, focus. Those

are skills that you can train them just like you train other things, sets and reps. Psychological framework, how you think about yourself in the world. Recovery, because if you're going to work your ass off, you need some recovery mechanisms. And then the last, the fifth is mindfulness. And so how do you walk people through the mechanics of mindfulness? Is it more single point or is it more contemplative? Is it both? Depends on the person, quite frankly. It depends on their orientation. I mean, if they speak hippie shaman, I speak that too. If they speak science, I speak that too. I'm not interested in being abrasive or coming with friction on belief systems because

I feel like all that's unnecessary. I just figure out a way to, you know, have them see what I'm saying and get it right. And, um, and that's different, right. Translationally different for different cultures, different upbringings and all of it. But I mean, we could geek out. I could go way deeper now if you want on like NF kappa B and what happens. Right. And some people need that. Some people need the logical progression to be like, okay, yeah, fine. I'll do it. Right. But I mean, we understand that the kind of hallmark,

like the fountain of youth that we've been searching for has really been in this ability to suppress the expression of NF-kappa B and this inflammatory cascade that leads to pretty much all chronic disease and aging and all the bad things that happen in chronic disease medicine. And so, you know, pharmaceuticals have been trying to bottle this thing for years, but we have definitive evidence to show mind-body practice, meditation, all these things do exactly that. So here it is, everyone's talking about health and wellness and what kind of broccoli sprouts I should take and all this, but we already know that like the pinnacle of all of this on the epigenetic expression of

who you're going to be happens with this pathway, NRF2, NF-kappa B. We understand it. We understand mind-body practice does it,, because we can't put in a pill and patent it, it's like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go talk about something else. And it's just like, hold on. Can we come back for a second? Like, let me explain to you what this does. Let me explain to you how this puts you in the parasympathetic nervous system and gets blood going to the right organs and your immune system doing what it's supposed to. It takes you out of wartime to peacetime economy. It powers the prefrontal cortex, which allows you higher moral reasoning, negation of impulses, higher cognitive thought, all the things that separate us from the monkeys

right here, right in front of you. Oh, you don't want to spend 10 minutes? It's just like, yo, I don't, you know what I mean? Like, it's just, it's all in front of us. And some people need all of that. Like the, the, the huge kind of like logical progression of why you should be doing this. And they come around and other people just want someone to do it for them. Right. And, and so, you know, there's, there's all kinds of belief systems that we face and the challenges. I mean, I'm sure you see this with athletes all day, every day, right? Is what they're coming in with. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. And you know what? Actually, optimistically, we're seeing folks come into the league, in particular the NFL, way more sophisticated than they were, say, four or five, certainly 10, 15 years ago. But even five years ago, mindfulness, okay, what? And now they're like, oh yeah, meditation? Yeah, we did it in college. And I'm just not doing it the amount of time that I'd like to. And sometimes I don't get it. So there's a concreteness there and there's an immediacy that is the competition of mindfulness. It's not concrete and it's not immediate. Although it

can be immediate. Although it can be immediate, like you can have these bursts that will be concrete for a minute, bursts of beta, I'm sorry, bursts of, oh gosh, what's the gamma? Bursts of gamma waves where it's like these insight modes like bang, like wow, you know, call it the voice of God or call it, you know, massive moment of wisdom or call it like brilliant insight, that those can happen. That being said, it's a little bit like somebody described it to me as, Mike, can you change the oil of your car? And I was like, yeah. And they say, well, meditation's kind of like changing it a thimble at a time. So it just takes time to do this work.

And at the same point, there is a suppression of the sympathetic nervous system that I'm more interested in than the activation of parasympathetic. But that being said, how we get to our nerd language here, I would love for you to just make it super simple. Like when you call it mind-body practice, Qigong is your mind-body practice. You're also doing meditation, right? So you're doing a mind-body kind of flowy movement experience to be in tune and in touch. And then you're also doing stuff on a pillow where you're sitting. And then hopefully those two practices along with the right sustenance, the fuel of life, meaning like the right broccolis, if you will, that you're

mindfully living when you're eating, when you're talking, when you're sitting, when you're having this conversation. That's the training to be mindful. Okay. So why Qigong? Why that? Let's just start there. I like Qigong for the Western mind, right? If I have to keep doing something, then at least do mind-body practice, right? Because doing nothing is just so painful to the Western mind that it's just like they can't stop the motion yet. So what I'll do is be like, here, eyes, mind, body, and breath. Let's coordinate the breath. Let's do these things.

Let's slow down. Let's slow down. And it becomes a natural kind of self-fulfilling form of biofeedback that allows for them to be like, wow, what the hell was I doing? Like, okay, I'm back. And eventually they get better at that. And as they get better at that, then sitting on the cushion is easier. But none of this is like, you know, Qigong for panic attacks, that sucks. It doesn't work, right? All of this is what you do so that, you know, you feel a panic attack

coming on 40 minutes before it's there, right? Is to be aware of your internal state. And so this is all just like the preparatory work for life, right? And like, what do I, my deepest meditations are probably tree skiing, you know, and some of the shoots up here is just real life stuff where, you know, the stakes are pretty high. But if I didn't have a meditation background, I wouldn't have that operating system kind of running in the background, basically asking me what am I doing right now and allowing me to close windows as fast as they're opening. That's a cool analogy. Yeah. That's part of the subtraction piece as well.

Yes. Close those windows all the time. Literally, they're popping up. That's the nature of the human mind and, you know, sympathetic, you know, overload and all the stuff that we can talk about and geek out about is we're just going to keep opening windows like, oh, did I call Billy? Oh, man, mom did this. And, you know, they just start opening these loops of like to do's entrapping us in future time or past time, not only not allowing us to be in present time. So you just have to have this almost like virus scanner that's constantly closing windows and allowing you to be present so that your system is optimized. And you know, look, there's, you know, take notes, put things in your calendar. I mean, I'm not saying, you know, neglect your life. I'm just saying, you don't need to be thinking about that right now. And let's be super clear. There's lots of mind body practices, right? So qigong, tai chi, yoga, there are lots that you can choose from. And the recommendation you're saying is get something, get your mind and body in the same

place that you're practicing something in a non-consequential way so that you become more integrated. Is that fair? Amen. Yes. And I want to caution our listeners because there's this tendency in the West. Like I, I studied Qigong. I've taught Qigong stuff that's 5,000 years old and I've never called it the Pedram system. I've never called it Pedram, you know, Qigong 2.0 and all this kind of stuff. And there's a lot of people out there that are just like trying to brand the ancient into the new and turn it into their marketing system.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's just, you know, it's like, you know what, man, like meditation, yoga, Qigong, stretching, these things have been around for thousands of years. I'm not saying the new stuff doesn't work, but I'm saying, look, you don't need to reinvent the wheel. This has worked for thousands and thousands of years for very pragmatic people that has helped them stay sane and healthy for millennia, right? It's probably a good starting point. And then you have like the framework and you go from there. You don't need to get into this

like market-driven one-upsmanship. I think there's just a lot of crap that's trying to like grab people and grab customers. And it's just, it gets pretty yucky pretty fast. Yeah. You know, as you say that Wim Hof, people recognize the Wim Hof breathing method is actually borrowed from, you know, give such references, right? Like give credit where it's due, man, to all, to all things, right? Like you didn't invent that. Right. And he's a nice guy. Right. But I'm just saying like, just make sure you're referencing where you got stuff. Cause that's respectful. Period. Yeah. Cool. And so there's lots of choices for the mind body. And then when it comes to meditation, I'm curious about your study or your practice, because I've toggled between single point, like the relentless commitment to come back to the full

experience of an inhale or an exhale, right? And so refocusing relentlessly for X amount of time, I'm calling that single point. And that it could be an inhale and exhale. It could be a flickering candle, you know, classic Kung Fu style. It could be a dot on the wall. It could be a sound, whatever. And then the more contemplative, which is who am I now? Let's see where we go. Right. Oh shit. I'm already judging myself. You know, like, okay, let's come back to it. Who am I? Oh, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a self critiquer. Oh, that's interesting. You know, and just kind of keep, what are the emotions connected to it and just following those threads. So are you paying more attention nowadays to more of a single point or more of an exploratory contemplative deep learning? It's like asking a basketball player if they're focused more on free throws or three-point shots or post-up. They're all part of a global game where you need to have a game that has some versatility. And so I will tell you for newbies, single point is the way to go.

Totally agree. Attention and focus are so sparse as a currency in a culture where information wars and social media and everything is trying to grab your attention and use it to manifest the world that they want versus the world that you choose that, you know, a big part of my movement now has all been about bringing focus back because without focus, you're lost. The Taoist alchemical tradition of heaven and earth fusing and fire and water and all the alchemical stuff that we can geek out about on the other side is things don't happen. Things don't manifest without the fusion of attention and intention. Intention, you'll bank up some energy and be like, damn it, that's it. I'm going to lose 30 pounds. It's New Year's. I'm going to

stop this. I'm going to stop that. And then your focus is just not there. And so you just squander the energy and it's over. Intention with attention together, you're a force of nature. I think you'll love this little morning mindset practice that I encourage people to do. It's four steps. So first is one deep breath. You're still under the sheets. Okay, one deep breath. If you want to get in like 12 of them, that's cool. You know, if you want to get in 20 of them, that's cool too. If you want to get two, okay. But one full consumed high essence engagement breath, right? And you know what's happening in the brain as a primer. It doesn't mean that you're getting radical change here, but just a primer. And then the step two is a thought of gratitude, but embody it. Okay. So we're starting to wake up particular parts of the brain and you want to do two of those, three of those, four. It's not a checklist, but it's an embodiment. Step three is intention. What is your intention for today? Okay. So just get an image of it, feel it, right? Not what you're going to do, but how you're going to do it. And step four, just be right where you are now. So now in these four

steps, I'm saying, okay, the breathing mechanisms to kind of do something with the beta, I'm sorry, not beta, with the parasympathetic, sympathetic moment, gratitude in intention, and then attention. And man, if we can get all four of those together, like on a moment, thin sliced moment to moment basis, we're breathing, right? Our mind is right. You know, like we got something that we can do in the world. So I think it's a cool little primer that I always challenge. I love it. And that, that right there to me is Kung Fu, right? That's it. Yeah, I know. Kung Fu isn't your kicks and your punches it's that it's how do i stay in this moment how do i stay focused how do i stay awake where you know the lights flickering

and and everything around me is driving me to fall asleep and be some idiot consumer who you know just is told how to vote or think or buy right and so you know the kung fu happens on the consciousness level and it has to do with waking up and staying awake and staying actively alert in every moment of your life. And I don't think the Dalai Lama even does that. It's a work in progress. Amen. Yeah, there you go. I took some Kung Fu.

I'm mindful when I'm stammering right now that I've learned, I grew up surfing. I think you did too. You spent some time surfing, right? No, what's funny is I spent time doctoring the surfers, but I had to choose between Kung Fu, piano, and surfing. And I went to Kung Fu because you can't master all three. I'll tell you that. I'm so sorry for you. I'm so sorry. No, I'm joking. It's led you to a really good place. So my Kung Fu was surfing. But I took some Kung Fu. And what I was going to say, the story is like, so I've also been fortunate enough, you and I have shared some of the same folks in the surf world. And so I was in Hawaii.

It was on the North Shore. It was for Pipe Masters. I'm there with a couple of guys supporting and working with them. And I grew up as a surf rat, you you know and so this is like really fun it's at the pinnacle of surf and the swell is just absolutely flat out and um the boys know i surf we haven't surfed together you know yet and so they're like hey mike want to come out and go you don't want to go paddle yeah oh my god did i make a mistake like two years prior telling them that I grew up surfing? Because they took me right into the pit of some stuff that I was like way over my ability.

And they had a great time. I mean, it was classic. So I'm hesitating to tell you that I've done some Kung Fu. And it was a short period of time. And, but it was called Sansu. I don't know if you're familiar with Kung Fu, Sansu Kung Fu. And it changed me. But my wife was like, you got to stop. And I was like, well, what do you mean? She says, no, no, no, no, no. This has changed you in the wrong way. Like, so Sansu is really about just an ultra violent approach to working with the body to protect and harm almost. And it was, my psychology was being impacted by

it. So are you familiar? There's different flavors. I mean, there's Aikido, there's Jiu Jitsu, like there's, there are multiple flavors of Kung Fu that are also an energetic interface with how you relate to the world, right? And, you know, I'm teaching my kids right now basic kind of water techniques of how to divert energy and transfer it. And then we have psychological lessons around that, around what people said, just peppered throughout their day. Because, you know, it's not about the fists that are thrown at you. It's the metaphoric ones that land harder, right? As you know, it's, you know, it's an operating system of how to navigate life. And there are, I mean, there's ninjutsu, there's, you know, there are assassins, you know, there are a lot of different operating systems that

may or may not jive with, you know, your life philosophy. So you got to find the right Kung Fu. Find your right Kung Fu. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. All right. So do you have a way people could study with you? Just online at this point, theurbanmonk.com. I do Qigong videos once a month and have like a temple grounds area. I mean, with COVID, a lot of things have shut down. I was doing quarterly retreats. I don't teach the martial arts because there's plenty of better qualified people that do that. I have a unique perspective on the energy arts because I'm not this like, follow me and tattoo my name on your arm kind of weird guru guy. So I just, I make it really accessible, but I haven't been able to do that since COVID. And so it's all just been online. And so we just teach a lot of free stuff. We have a,

you know, an area of our member site that does it. And, you know, my Kung Fu in the last few years has become film. I've done several, you know, important docu-series on trying to get people to get why they should eat vegetables and, you know, just kind of like deconstructing and then reconstructing a reality around vitality that will allow for people to make better decisions, which is the only way you solve the healthcare crisis. Right. All right. I want to talk to you about FOPO. So you've heard of YOLO, you only live once, FOMO, fear of missing out. So I want to talk about FOPO, fear of people's opinion. And I think it's one of the great constrictors for human flourishing, certainly for human performance is this mental model,

like what are they thinking about me? What might they think about me if? And so it's okay, I guess, to entertain it here and there, but it's the rumination of it and the framework that leads all other frameworks, which is what are they going to think about me? And so from a brain perspective or a practice perspective, from a science, from an applied place, like, can you just talk about when you hear the concept FOPO and this fear of other people's opinions. Where do you go? Well, I mean, we already went there and we talked about curtain A, which was the single-pointed focus. But now we're in curtain B, which to me is like, I think Ramana Maharshi is one of the great contributors to this line of inquiry, which basically is asking yourself, who am I? And then when you think you have an answer, ask yourself who just

answered that? And then who just heard you answering that? And going back along that deconstruction line of your ego and your storefront and who you think you are and who you need to be for these people and why the hell any of it even matters, right? And then you start getting into all the viral memetic programming that led to all of the defenses you've created to be this person that can be loved and not judged and respected and whatever the hell, you know, led you into focus, but then the other practice is watering away at the storefront that creates this edifice that's so difficult to uphold. And literally in some people I meet is like 80% of all their energy expenditure is propping up this fake sense of self in order to feel like they need to, you know, survive and not have dad yell at them or whatever. And so, you know, a lot of that is introspective. A lot of

that is psychotherapy. A lot of that is cushion time and asking the bigger questions. But I think that's where the spiritual work really comes in line with a lot of the, you know, new understandings we have in sports performance and psychology and all these things. It's just like, yo, you got to chisel away at this gunk, this junk that no longer serves you, has never served you. So let's figure out what all these things were. Let's create better defenses. Let's create a more optimized interface with reality. And sometimes it means, screw you, I don't care. Sometimes it means renegotiating boundaries. You know, it's complicated because we're complicated. But I think that that is where a tremendous amount of energy gets reabsorbed in the process that, you know, one can call inquiry, one can call meditation. I mean, it's really unwinding what you just talked about. Very, very cool. Okay. Do you recognize FOPO as a, and wave me off if you're saying, no, I don't think that's quite right, but do you recognize FOPO as being a constrictor for living well?

Man, I literally just went through an incident this week and my folks left yesterday morning. My father's having some like sibling drama now that my grandfather's 104 and now all of a sudden they care about him and they're showing up and, you know, like they're feeling all the remorse of not having my, my father basically like took care of him for the last 40 years. Right. And so now all of a sudden they're showing up and, and, you know, my loving, lovingly, you know, monkish, you know, stance on this is tell him to pound sand. Like, you know

what? Like this is, this is killing you. Just be done with it. Like, be like, listen, these are my boundaries. And they're like, you know, my parents are both caught in this cultural, like you can't do that. People are going to talk. And it's all this like community chatter stuff that has people browbeaten into doing things that they would otherwise not want to do, but is actually giving them heart attacks and causing all sorts of problems. And we were literally deconstructing this being like, why is this important to you more than knowing your grandchildren? Right? Like you are willing to die over this human drama crap

instead of get to watch your grandchildren grow up. This is how much of a spell it holds over you. And this is, you know, with my own father yesterday, right? Like, no, I don't, you know, this is a very real thing. And it's something that I think takes people down. I mean, people have so much of their operating system caught in the he said, she said, what are they going to think? Operating systems of this kind of horizontal parasitic feeding frenzy. And they're not connecting with their higher centers

and they're never going to know who they are when they're stuck in the back alleys, just getting into fistfights. If you had like, I don't know, questions are the way that I get to operating system. So like, what is it? So I don't know how you help people with their operating system. But for me, it's like, well, what's your philosophy of money? What's your philosophy of living well? You know, like to get to some questions that help them get some clarity to it. But if you don't have another method of doing it, how do you help people? And maybe you say, well, here's a handful of important questions that I think over the years adapted to kind of a

vitalistic model where I'm like, look, I just got to give this guy a shot in the arm. Let's get them a little bit more vitality. Let's clean up their diet. Let's get the dairy out. Let's stop drinking for stress management and you know, whatever the kind of low hanging fruit is. And then know that they're going to be like lotto winners with that new energy and squander it because their operating system sucks. But, you know, hopefully get them to rein is available versus going to someone who's in a constrictive phase, getting them to try to do things that are uncomfortable, right? And so, you know, for me, it's like kind of like Marty Seligman's positive psychology applied to vitalism and energy is like, let me just give this guy a shot in the arm. Let me big them up a little bit so that they

stand a chance. Before you ask them to double down on something hard, whether it's physical, emotional, or mental. Yeah, let's get a win, right? Let's get a win. And I found, not for everybody, but I found that tends to be a more effective approach with what I'm doing, right? Okay, cool. So if you could sit with a master, somebody who is exactly what you'd imagine, who is it? And if you only had one question, who is it and what do you ask? I want to see somebody who is standing in the battlefield of the modern world

with bullets flying everywhere, dealing with like some crazy, you know, real world situations and living the Dharma right there in the moment. Because I've gone to the temples, I've gone to, you know, lots of places in the Himalayas. And I'll tell you, it's easier to run. And it's a bit decadent to, you know, be able to have your life in such simplicity to contemplate the big questions. I just don't think we can afford that luxury anymore. So I want to, I like meeting people that are like champions of industry and champions of things that are really, you know, impactful, important. And I want to see how they interact with their kids. I want to see how loving

they are with their wife. I want to see how good they are with their staff. I want to see it translate across all the different areas of their life garden to show that they've actually demonstrated mastery of this thing called life. Right. It's easy to just be like spiritual Smurf. Right. Or like, I'm just gonna be a good dad, but my career doesn't matter. Like I love seeing proficiency across the channels to someone who's mastered whatever's put in front of them. Very cool. Who is that person right now that comes to mind or handful of persons? It's hard to say, man. It's that person is like, it's like a woozle, right? I have people that I've seen in various areas but then their their marriage is falling apart right so it's an aspirational person to me like i've studied with the dalai lama and you

know he doesn't he doesn't you know run a company he does run a country kind of right and so you know there are people that i respect um but i'm i'm now on this kind of new line of inquiry being like i want to see someone in every walk of their life. And look, you know, we're flawed and we make mistakes, but I, you know, those are the people that I love kind of meeting and interacting with, but I've never met that in one person. Not today. Yeah. I appreciate the answer and you didn't fall for the reductionist question line of questioning either. So it's very cool. I appreciate that even more, I think. And so I'll tell you a fun story is that there was a quote unquote, big conference and very important people there. I was asked to speak. So that made me a very important person.

And so I'm backstage waiting to go on. And the speaker ahead of me was a big-timer guru guy. And I'd read one of his books. That was really good. And so I was listening intently. And the words he had were great. Came off backstage, and there wasn't a lot of people there. And he had a few people that were helping him kind of navigate the space and you know part of his business folks and he came over and somebody wanted us to meet so they made that little introduction there was like a five or ten minute interstitial between when I was going to go on

and he was exhausted and exhausted to the point where I thought, oh, maybe he just left it all out there. Wow, this is interesting. And then he was rude and dismissive to both his staff and me. I thought, this is a phony. This is a fraud. Dude, they're everywhere. They're everywhere. It gets worse. So then I was like, I looked over at my wife and I, and she was like, Oh my, you know, like mouthing. Cause it's a small little room like, Oh, and he's kind of in this other area now. And then his, uh, I think they realized, um, that they could maybe get something from me. And so one of his staff comes over and says, you know, we'd like to include you in this new

documentary doing, would you be willing to be in it? And I was like, well, now I'm in a dilemma. Like this person I thought that was like a guru, like a pop culture, like, you know, his name, we don't need to. And so, and so I was just polite and gave myself some space not to commit said, you know, all we're doing and we're doing it with an, another guru that is bigger than this guru. Okay. And this person is legit, at least I think. And, um, across like global influence and says, so now I'm like, wow, this could be like a really cool thing to do with some, with these two people. All you have to do is say that your practices and your approach to life have been influenced by this man sitting over here get the fuck out kiss the ring baby i was like wow it just got ugly you know so um yeah what are we doing you know so that anyways that was like my wfd moment for me what the fuck we doing and so i couldn't believe it. And so I share that with

you because I hear what you're saying and you're saying they're everywhere. And so it's everywhere. I've sat, I've been on a lot of stages. I've been in a lot of these rooms. I've seen the dark underbelly of the guru culture, you know, and like, like I've been in India, like they were much more interested in the blonde girls that they could bang than, you know, another brown guy who was actually like trying to find God. And like, I mean, it was, I've seen so much of the dark underbelly of the spiritual culture and the guru culture that, you know, it's very easy to be disappointed in humanity. But that's where I think we're at fault for thinking humans can be perfect and not realizing that we're just fundamentally flawed and we're a work in progress. And when we put someone on that pedestal, they're doomed like, you know, yeah, I farted, right? Like, it's a human biological thing.

I'm so sorry. Like, I didn't realize gods don't do that, right? Like, it's just, you can't, you can't win. You can't win. And a lot of these people, they fall into it. And then their egos just, and it becomes part of their identity. And they can't let it go because it's also, you know, bringing money and power. And it's, it's, to me, it's Frodo's ring. It is. And Gandalf, Gandalf was like, oh, no, no, no. I won't touch that. Right. You have to be really careful with that ring of power and, and the gurus that bite, I've seen their lives fall apart. I've seen their marriages

fall apart. I've seen them become egomaniacs. It's a bad deal. Okay. So how do you think about success? How would you define it? Success is? Success is being able to live the life that you choose to live in a way where the outcome is in front of you, the struggle has been gamified and you are happier and growing and more fulfilled in every day. And whether that's golf, money, raising family or whatever, it's just, you know, becoming good at the game

that you have chosen to play and then maybe even crossing over to different games to apply that. I mean, you look at like Michael Jordan, then going to baseball and then, you know what I mean? And some of these guys just completely chunk it. And some of them like can apply the principles into different verticals because they like it. And, and, you know, to me, there's a caveat is can you do so and stay in your serotonergic circuitry and not become an addictive dopamine-driven fiend, like a complete narcissistic a-hole to everyone around you because all you care about is winning, right?

And so to me, I have a much more well-rounded definition because I've met those other guys, and they're just no fun to be around. So the serotonin genetic system, walk people through why serotonin is so wonderful and why that you are a bit cautious of that system. Well, I mean, listen, you want your prefrontal cortex. So the part of the brain that we've identified as kind of the most sophisticated, you know, highest order area of, you know, rational thought and moral reasoning and all these things that, you know, highest order area of, you know, rational thought and moral reasoning and all these things that, you know, led the Greeks to come up with stuff that, you know, we still talk about is located in the same place the ancients called the third eye.

And these are high, these are serotonergic neurons that when activated somehow are leading to gamma wave coherence and spiritual experiences and aha moments and all sorts of wonderful kind of trans-dimensional access to things that make us superhuman. And it's all in the part of the brain that also leads to compassion, loving, and kind of more holistic understanding of this thing called life. And so to me, I mean, there's the payload. And so if you're doing things that make you a nicer, softer, kinder person, while also, you know, getting your wins in your success bucket or whatever that is, you don't become an addict to the external criteria that help define you in life, but you're just happy. And then you take

that happiness into this thing called life where you, you know, get wins or not and whatever. And you just, you know, you sharpen your sword, but your, your self-worth doesn't live or die by it. You don't become an a-hole when you lose a game, you don't, you know, hit your kids because that, you know, it's just, I've seen all sides of it. I've worked with a lot of execs and I've seen guys fall to the wrong side of it and it's dark side. It's just not, it, it makes them less human over time and it makes them insufferable. Right. And their friends and family don't want to be around them. And to me, that's not a win to me. That's not a well-lived whole, whole, wholly lived life. There you go. Okay. So, um, do you have any you have any routines that other than the bookends that you

talked about, which is the Qigong and the meditation, you know, morning and evening, are there other routines that are important for you? Here's one we did with 1200 companies. And it worked so well, it shocked them. I knew it was going to work. I didn't realize it was going to work that well. We set up timers on their desktops or their phones. So every 25 minutes, a timer would go off, which said it's time for your five minute break. You get up, you stretch, you do a couple breathing exercises, you go pee, you drink some water and stretch the one part of your body that's telling you it needs the most love. And then just do a little bit. Do 10 squats. Do 10 push-ups. Do 10 something. Five minutes, twice an hour.

And you saw productivity go up. You saw absenteeism go down. You saw morale go up. Energy levels. Just by taking a break from whatever you thought you were in and just replenishing yourself for a moment, right? And just creating a habit of doing that multiple times a day. And then, you know, building that as an operating system, because, you know, it kind of feeds into the stuff that I do for me as I assemble my life garden around dedicated acts of self-love, not because I'm

selfish, but because my kids need me, my wife needs me, my career needs me, everything needs me, right? So if I don't put the oxygen mask on first, I'm not going to make it. I have way too much output that's expected of me in a life that's pretty big to not nourish myself and feed myself regularly, day, all day and at regular intervals. Right. And so, you know, to me, that's a takeaway message is like, man, just it's not selfish. You will be better. You will be better by doing these things. Right. And so it seems selfish and it seems decadent and it seems wasteful, but that's the part of your brain that isn't serving you talking.

And did you do this with 1,200 people? Or did you say 1,200 companies? 1,200 companies. And it was voluntary in the companies. And the reporting that came back was just like slam dunk. Like, oh my God, this was genius. And it's just like, well, you guys feel guilty for taking breaks? Does HR come over and smack you? Like, what is the culture here that doesn't allow you to stretch your legs and pretend

you're looking at a spreadsheet when you're checking Facebook, right? It's just, you know, like there's so much waste in corporate America because people are just parked in front of a desk pretending to be productive instead of taking care of themselves and producing. Okay, I'm mindful of your time. I just got one more kind of fun little thing I want to explore with you is that, let's say, I don't care about legacy. This is not about legacy. That's not what I'm asking about. But I want to find a fun little way to get into the end of your life, right? Kind of the wisdom that you've accumulated and the way you've lived your life. And let's say somebody is going to write a movie or there's a book or something that captures

you. And there's three words that, that, um, lead off the trailer or are on the cover of the book. What are they? What are those three words? Down to earth. Oh, I mean, look, I spent a good couple decades of my life studying all this mystical stuff, Kabbalah, Buddhism, Taoism, Sufism, and all of it. And I just don't think that there, I think there's a fundamental distinction between householders, which most of us are, and ascetics, which most of us aspire to be, although we have bills and lives that we can't leave. And so I think that there's just a fundamental misread and translational error in the West where we think like, you know, you got to go up and spend your whole life sitting under a waterfall to have a spirituality. And I

think that that is fundamentally flawed. I think you should have a spirituality in how you blend your smoothie in the morning or drink coffee with your wife and sit with your kid if you only have a minute, right? And I think it's those interstitial moments that define life. And we are all juxtaposing some weird other life that we don't actually have an opportunity to live in the modern world and feeling a longing for a spirituality that's never going to be available to us there, but it's always been available to us here. And it's at the bottom of your next breath. Right? So bring it back. Epic. Okay. Last question is, you know, we're in the midst of a pandemic, global. Certainly the United States is suffering with the top of them or the bottom of the countries, you know, that are suffering here.

And Australia was on fire not that long ago. Western United States is on fire right now. We're dislocated from Mother nature. We are nature. It's not like nature is that tree over there, the ocean over here, the hilltop there. We are nature. And we've got a political crisis in the United States that is devolving rapidly. All that being said, what excites you about the future? Partially just that. I mean, when you throw a fever that high, do you keep doing what you're doing or do you lay down and stop to recover? I think this is a really interesting inflection point where nature is throwing a fever, society is throwing a fever, and it's really time for us to kind of reconcile what we're doing and how we're

doing it with what's going to help us in the future. And so, you know, we've been screaming about global war. I mean, a lot of this climate change stuff was predicted 20 years ago in the reports. It's like things will get worse, fires will get worse, floods will get worse, and despotic leaders will come up and there'll be more fascism and more racism. All this was predicted 20 years ago. But here we are, and now everyone's like, holy crap, this is here. Yeah, we're sick. So what do you do when you're sick? You take some time, you drink some chicken soup, you think about your life, you reevaluate where your energy is going and maybe change your burn rate to optimize so that you don't get so sick or this kind of illness in the future. So to me, it's an opportunity for introspection. It's an

opportunity for growth. And the Phoenix rises from the ashes. Like, yeah, this is, this is bad. But this is an opportunity for us to grow as a species. I'm not one of these, like, see, we did it. Now God's punishing us. And you know, here we are, you know, it's the rapture. I think that's all just insane. This is an opportunity for growth like anything else. So what, what's it going to be human species? You want to hang around? Let's talk about it, right? And all the polarity in Chinese medicine, we talk about like the moment of death is when yin and yang start to separate. And you see like right and left separate, you see the polarity starting to become more polarized. It's a time of death and it's a time of rebirth when that happens. And so, you know, the, the tempered, rational, reasonable, heartful voices will rise and people will start to move away from the hatred, hopefully,

and come to the middle and, and, and really find a new level of discourse for humanity. I mean, we know how pervasive this social media is and all this, it's just fake news left and right. Right. And so people should become more discerning and start breathing down to their bellies and wake up to the real answers, which come from within. Yeah. That's so good. I appreciate you. So where can people find you? Theurbanmonk.com. Easy enough. Easy enough. All right. I want to encourage folks to go check you out, play on social with you, you know, and check out some of the documentaries and some of the practices that you're teaching and

get infused there. So, Pedram, I just want to say thank you. I appreciate you and looking forward to something next. Yeah, it's gonna be fun. Thank you. And what a great conversation. I appreciate everything you do here. All right. Cool, man. Thank you. And what a great conversation. I appreciate everything you do here. All right. Cool, man.

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