Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Carli Lloyd: Purpose Driven Work

Episode Date: January 27, 2016

Imagine there was a global award for what you do, whatever you are most passionate about: parenting, marketing, coaching, law, giving to others, teaching, etc. Imagine being recognized as being THE BEST in the world at that endeavor- the single best. In this conversation we learn from Carli Lloyd. She is just that person. In this Episode: -Significance of winning the FIFA Player of the Year award -Picking up the game of soccer at a young age -Believing her raw talent would always be enough -Being on the verge of walking away from the game -The impact trainer, James Galanis, had on her life -Using the disappointment of loss to tap into the inner-will to bear down and focus deeper -Striving for greatness and never settling -The double-edge sword of perfectionism -Why she wouldn't be where she is without her mental approach_________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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stay present and engaged with my thinking and writing. If you wanna slow down, if you wanna work smarter, I highly encourage you to check them out. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and grab your paper pro today. All right, welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm Michael Gervais. And the idea behind these conversations is to sit down with people who are on the path of mastery. Either they have a deep understanding of what mastery means, they've been on the path for a long time, or they're early on the path and they're pursuing it. And so there's different points of view that I'm interested in trying to capture and understand.

And so before we get going, I want to begin with a question or maybe just an exercise in imagination. And if you could imagine what it would be like if there was a global award for the thing that you're most passionate about, whether that's parenting or being a spouse or giving a foundation or law or marketing or coaching or whatever it is that you're into. What if there was an award, a global award where you could be recognized or somebody is going to be recognized to be the number one best in the world? So the first order of business just to play with is would you put your name in the hat would you submit to being critiqued or judged or part of that competition

and if you just pause in that for a minute that will teach you something about you just answering that question and if there's no hesitation that tells you something but if there's a little bit of hesitation about it, you're probably hesitating because to struggle with this idea of what would it be like if you really chipped in and went for it and you didn't have what it took. At some part on the journey, the committee, whoever that committee might be, they said you're not good enough and you can no longer play or compete or be part of this process. And then the third thing to entertain, if you will, is why would you do it? Why would you throw your name in the hat? What is the motivation underneath of it? Is it to be recognized? Is it to see if your skill and your passion and your craft are as good as others?

Is it to compare yourself to others? What is the motivation? Is it because you love competition? You love the strain and the fight and the trust required in it? And so just play with those three things for just a little bit. As we go through this conversation, maybe you can think about those as well. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true. Meaningful relationships are at the center of sustained success. And

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That's linkedin.com slash deal. For two full months for free, terms and conditions apply. Finding Mastery is brought to you by David Protein. I'm pretty intentional about what I eat and the majority of my nutrition comes from whole foods. And when I'm traveling or in between meals on a demanding day, certainly I need something quick that will support the way that I feel and think and perform. And that's why I've been leaning on David Protein bars. And so has the team here at Finding Mastery. In fact, our GM,

Stuart, he loves them so much. I just want to kind of quickly put them on the spot. Stuart, I know you're listening. I think you might be the reason that we're running out of these bars so quickly. They're incredible, Mike. I love them. One a day, one a day. What do you mean one a day? There's way more than that happening here. Don't tell. Okay. All right, look, they're incredibly simple. They're effective.

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for longevity. And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value, and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David D-A-V-I-D protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. Now imagine this happening, that you are recognized as the number one best in the world at your endeavor, the single best. There's no one else. And in this conversation, we get to learn from somebody who was just honored with that award, Carly Lloyd.

And she is just that person. She was just recently awarded FIFA's Women's World Player of the Year. And that's a pretty massive award. I mean, and that's why the first part of this is imagining what it would be like if you were the single best in your craft and the thing that you're most passionate about. So I hope your antenna is perking up just a little bit. She has so much to offer. She is clear about her thinking, about how she's moved through struggles, and she's got a point of view about how the psychology and the mental skills are part of her process. And one of the reasons to pay attention is that she talks about a fork in the road,

and we all have it. We all have these mini crises or massive crises. We all have these forks in the road where it forces us to answer the question, do I continue or should I choose a new path? And do I fight and go through it or do I move on to something else? Do I quit or transfer into something else? And one of the things that she captures is when she faced down that process is that she had the ability to use her voice and say to her family, you know, I need some help. And she was young. She was, it was U21 soccer and they found some,

somebody that they thought could help her. And she's so, she's so honors the relationship with this person that she talks about how a relationship that had support and challenge was able to help her move through and be able to do the exact thing that she was most passionate about. And this is coach James Galanis, I believe is how you pronounce his last name. I can't wait to meet him at some point. Hopefully I get to do that. And the way she captures him and his relationship, it sounds like he's just a flat out humanistic person who really cares about the human underneath the jersey and was able to help her change her life. Now, she had to do the work, but he opened her up to the idea that she could become one of the greatest players in the world.

And that thought, it's not just like, okay, let me back up. We can say really nice things to other people, but when we have an idea about what is possible for another person, and we have some conviction about it because we've done the lonely work to be able to imagine what is possible for another person, and we help invite what that vision or that idea is about for the person and we share it with them or we ask them what they think is possible for themselves and we calibrate that along the path, then what we're doing essentially is helping that person generate what they believe is possible for themselves. And at a particular point in time for Carly, she had somebody that helped her through that. Now, one thing is, it's

just one thing to be able to imagine it. And the second is to be able to give somebody very credible information about why they have the abilities and mental and physical and technical to be able to go pursue the vision that they created together. And James was able to do that with Carly and Carly was able to follow the path and do the difficult work of trying and testing and letting go and trusting and trying and straining and testing and letting go. And if you've been fortunate enough

to have a person like this in your life, you know exactly what happened to her. If you think back into your past, was there a person who got you, who they understood you? And I've been fortunate enough to have a couple of those people. And one is Gary de Blasio. He was a mentor of mine for a long time, still is in spirit.

And what he was able to do at a young age, and I'll just share this part of with you is that somehow at a young age, he, he understood who I was and he was able to share with me what he thought that I could become. And it was an amazing gift. And I'll leave the details for Jesse and I, but if you haven't had that person in your life or some of those people in your life, then this,

this might not make a whole lot of sense to you, but pay attention because these types of relationships are very important. And all of us listening to this conversation can be the person that helps set a vision, that helps guide somebody through difficult times and inspire them, even when it's not difficult, to become exactly who it is that they want to become. And this isn't meant to be light and pithy and it's none of that. This is meant to be anchored in a real care for another person and the conviction to be able to stand next to them and say, I'm going to go do this work with you. You have to do it, but I'm going to do

the work behind the scenes with you. It's an amazing place to hold position in another person's life. All right. So Carly talks about mental skills training and how the importance of that kicked in for her when on physical talent alone was not enough. At some point for all of us, our natural skills and abilities will take us through a progression where we get into larger pools or more refined pools where people are talented at what they do. And then at some point, if there's only three things we can train, maybe four, being our craft, our body and our mind, maybe our spirit. We're still trying to figure that out, aren't we? But she was able to really get by and work hard enough on her physical and technical skills. And then she was in an arena basically with other competitors who are equally as skilled physically and technically. And then what she invested in is the mental part of the game.

And she's such an advocate for the importance of this part of learning and mastery and progression. And so we talk about imagery, we talk about self-talk, we talk about the double-edged sword of perfectionism. And you can imagine I've got a strong point of view about the cost of perfectionism, but how it does help some people get better, but at some point it just cuts us too deeply. All right. So I hope you enjoy this. You can tell from this conversation that Carly lives with purpose. She's clearly got passion about what she's doing.

There's a fire in her. There's a competitive, a fierce competitiveness that, that translate throughout the conversation. She's clear minded. She's got a real rich competitor fight about her. And she's faced the dark side, the lonely part. You know, she's been the person in the arena that's come up short

and the person that was asked not to be part of the club. And, you know, she's done that work to be able to be on the other side of it and to be the number one best in the world. In the last podcast with Rich Wohl, we talked about if he would have stayed the course with the thing he trained, meaning law, that he would not have been able to touch his potential and the lifestyle that he's created now. This is the exact opposite conversation. If Carly would have left because of the struggle and the pain of not being included not being good

enough basically that we would never have been able to experience or she would not first have been able to experience being and becoming the best in the world at the thing that she's most passionate about so there's a case for both and having the insight of knowing when to stay and fight and to trust the path ahead of you that looks difficult and daunting and knowing when it's time to transition away from the thing that you thought was important. So both of these require insight and she's done that work as well. So this journey is not for the faint of heart. It requires just by definition, you know, the uncomfortableness that comes with being

on the edge. And she's done just that. You know, she's faced down the thing that I believe most of us are afraid of, which is doubt. Am I good enough? And she's faced it down. So do some research on Carly if you're not familiar with her. And, you know, she's an American soccer player with a two-time Olympic gold medalist.

She's, as I mentioned at the top, FIFA's Women's World Cup champion and the FIFA Player of the Year, Women's Player of the Year. And she currently plays for the Houston Dash, and she's still on the national women's soccer program. And heading into Rio, I'm sure she's going to just be full of fire and just passion. So we'll be able to follow her over the next couple of months as well. Okay, so my hope for all of these conversations is that, and I'm trying, I'm trying to be able to

pull out the most important variables across many different domains, is for us to identify not what world-leading thinkers and doers, how they do what they do, but what is their psychological framework? How do they see themselves and how do they understand how the world works? And also identify their sturdy and robust practices, the things that they do on a regular basis that allow them to stand with conviction. And there's no tricks, there's no tips, there's no hacks. And those get exposed because they're not sturdy enough. And they might be efficient, but they're not sturdy enough. Most of them, at least I would say. And so in essence, the hope is to provide us with ways to be able to train our mind and our craft in a similar fashion to some of the most exceptional performers in the world.

And that's what we'll get in this conversation. And the ultimate goal, as a reminder, is to not follow what Carly's done, but rather to work to understand what she was searching for and to seek the same. Hope you have a great time listening to this. And it's a little bit shorter. We'll try a little shorter format on this. And hit us up, both of us on social media, Michael Gervais, at Michael Gervais and at Carly Lloyd.

Hope you have a great time. And let's get into the conversation with Carly Lloyd. Carly, welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your insights on mastery. Yeah, I'm excited. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, for sure. Congratulations on your recent award. That is wonderful. And I'm curious, how you've responded to recent award. That is wonderful. And I'm curious, you know, how you've responded to this award. Well, first of all,

it was an amazing honor to be accepting that award. It's, you know, it's one thing to obviously win a World Cup and win Olympics. You know, it's a team sport and definitely couldn't have done it without all my teammates but on an individual standpoint uh it's a footballer's dream to be named world player of the year and for me my journey to get

on the national team to stay on the national team has been the last 13 years and so to finally reach that point has been truly amazing but I know that you know I'm not stopping and I have plenty more improvement to to focus on yeah it's really cool what is I'm really curious like where did your journey start and how did you become engaged at a deep level with soccer? What was it about your upbringing that led you to becoming the best and one of the best in the world? Well, I think it's been a very unique journey. There's been lots of ups and downs throughout it all. I started playing when I was five years old.

My parents, like any other parents, just signed them up for an activity. And, you know, you never know how it's going to turn out and how it's going to play out. But for me, playing soccer was everything I wanted to do in life. Everywhere I went, I brought a soccer ball with me, whether it was at friends' house, family house, parties. The ball always came with me. And I think from an early age, my parents realized that.

They knew that I had this dream, this passion. And so I just continued with it. Went through club, went through high school, went through college, and then kind of started my journey onto the professional team. Was involved in the under 21 national team. And unfortunately, hit a brick wall, and I didn't think I was going to get through it. I pretty much was about to quit soccer, quit playing altogether, because I just couldn't get past it. Obviously, my parents, that was a really hard thing for them to grasp and for them to understand. So when I told them the news, it was pretty difficult for them to grasp and for them to understand. So when I told them the news, it was pretty difficult for them. And I happened to reach out to this trainer and mentor of mine, James Galanis.

He happened to be training my brother's team. And my dad went up to him and asked him and said, Hey, listen, we need your help. Could you please help our daughter? She's about to quit. Is there anything you can do? And James asked who it was. Before you get into the solution, how old were you?

So I was on the under-21 national team at at this point and I was a junior in college. Junior college. Yeah. Okay. So let me, let me paint the picture in my head is that, uh, you're just a little grommet. You're just all engaged in soccer. Your parents had no idea that this was going to be your thing, but you just drafted right into it. You loved it.

It was your thing. And you'd walk around with a, with a soccer ball and, and like it could, you couldn't get it off your foot or your knees or your hands or not your hands, but your heads, like you're in it. And then you invested a lot of time to get better. And then you hit a brick wall. Is that where we are so far? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. So you were, were you, were you the little girl on, um, like during recess that was out there trying to get a pickup game started or trying to kick the ball around? Was that you? Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I was always competing from a young age. Did you think that you were going to take this into the world rankings? Did you think you had that in you at a young age? Was that part of your thinking? No, I didn't have that until I met my trainer and he basically changed my entire life. Okay. I want to get to that. Okay. That's great. Finding mastery is brought to you by Momentous. When it comes to high performance,

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Okay. Now maybe if you can go while we're talking about that, if you could decode for us, were you interested in the way it felt to do the thing, meaning soccer, or were you more interested in the way it felt to have passion and to excel and to get better? And it just happened

to be soccer um i've i always had the will and the desire um i was just passionate about it i don't think that you think of those things at a younger age i think you you develop those at an older age yeah that's when you have somebody, when you have somebody in your corner who is teaching you those things, for me, it was just, I just love to play and I would find any way possible to go out and play. It's just that simple. Like you just love the art of playing. Yep. Okay. And then before we get to like the first crisis you had there, when did you first notice that adults treated you differently because of your talent? In what way? Like when there's young talents, my experience has been when people are really good at a young age, at some point adults start to treat them differently than the

other kids their same age. And I'm wondering if you ever noticed that. I mean, I always, I always think that people have always thought that I had potential. So, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that necessarily people were, were treating me differently. I would just say that, you you know parents on my club team and everybody I mean they they definitely saw something different in me as opposed to other people okay all right and then so on that same vein I'm curious I'm always curious about like was there a point in time or like a very specific point in time when you realized that you thought differently?

Not just that your talent was exceptional, but you thought differently than other people. I would say that after I met James is when I started to think totally different. Okay, perfect. But definitely not at a younger age yeah and then james was when you're on the u21 is he the person that helps you through the this brick wall um yeah he's been in my he's been throughout my journey for the last 13 years so we've been working closely to one another um like my go-to person basically changed the way i think uh identified from his philosophy what my weaknesses are and we've turned those weaknesses into strengths and they've actually

been the strongest part of my game now um which is you know character being mentally tough and being physically fit and um we've just been honing away at those for quite some time. Oh, brilliant. Okay. So bring us, so I can't wait to get to all three of those. And then, so bring us to the crisis that you had. Like what was the crisis on the U21 team when you're ready to throw your chips in? Well, the crisis was that I had been the best player growing up on every single team that I've been played on. And I never really had to work for anything. My talent, my natural ability just kind of just took over. I didn't have coaches that really pushed me. I didn't have coaches that really said to me, hey, if you're only going to give 80% today,

well, you're going to take a seat on the bench. We need you to give 100%, 100% of the time. And so when I got to the under-21 level, all of those players on the team were the best players of all of their teams. And I suddenly found myself at the bottom of the pack. And I didn't know how to deal with it because I had been the best on every team that I played for. And I wasn't mentally tough enough to be able to fight through it.

I didn't know, no one told me and I figured I'm not going to make it. I got cut from the under 21 team during my third year with them and I thought I'd just finish out playing college soccer and that would be it. And then, so you, did you talk to your parents? I did talk to them. Yeah. Yeah. And they, they introduced you, um, they put you on the path to meet James? Uh, yeah, he had been training my brother's team.

Yeah. Just worked out that way. Yeah. Awesome. So, and so he's a technical coach, but just has some insight and wisdom about how elite performance is groomed and developed. Would that be a fair capture? Yeah, he's a mastermind of everything, really. The mental aspect of the game, the physical aspect, the technical, the tactical character. You know, he builds lots of soccer players.

He trains teams, coaches teams. But I think one of the most special traits that he's got is that he knows that not every kid he coaches is going to become the next Carly Lloyd or become the next professional. And he teaches them life skill lessons versus making them better soccer players he works their mind more than he works their body and then eventually they develop into great human beings which i think is is one of the best characteristics yeah 100 100 and um if we could if we could tease out this idea of what it was like for you when you're at the crisis of quitting, because the quitting and the transition phase is really an important phase because some people leave and some people stay the long course. And sometimes they should leave.

And you decided to stay the long course. Bring me into like what was that like for you when your parents said hey i want you to meet james and you're like listen i'm done and like did you really want to keep going or or like help me understand what that was like um well for me i had the will, I had the desire, I had the passion. So it wasn't about any of that. Okay, you were scared. You were scared that you didn't match up well enough or that you might not be good enough? No, I wasn't scared. I just didn't know.

I had nobody in my corner who was believing in me and that who could actually show me to the path of getting on the full women's national team. I mean, so many people, so many coaches along the way said that you're great, you're talented, but there was nobody that was helping me believe that. And there was nobody that was helping me get better. And instantly, that's what I had found when I started training with James. Did James teach you early on the mechanics of confidence so that you didn't need him or others to tell you you're great so that you would feel great? Did he teach you that so that you could self-generate confidence on your own?

I think over time, but I still, I mean, we still have this relationship with one another where he's constantly feeding me confidence. It's constant. In the 13 years that we've been working together, it's not like, okay, I'll see you later. You know, you're good. I was just struggling with confidence in this past World Cup. And then to be able to dig myself out of it through his help, you know, the way that I ended is kind of a miracle. The mind is everything. And he just indirectly feeds me with things that I need to focus on and that I need to do in order to perform at this level. God, it's, you know, we say it so often, but confidence is a cornerstone of great performance.

And we do a terrible job in America, I don't know about other countries, of teaching the mechanics of confidence. And it's really simple. And once you can peel, peel back this mystery, confidence only comes from one places, which is what we say to ourselves. But if we say to ourselves things that we don't really believe, then we've got some problems. And so it's, it's when that self talk is, is credible, and it's been earned. And the only way to earn it is to by putting yourself in uncomfortable situations, and getting scraped and coming through it. And would you agree with that?

Or is that just me riffing the way I've come to understand it? No, not at all. I 100% agree. And that's what I've done. In order to grow as a person and an athlete and a professional, you have to be uncomfortable to be comfortable. No one gets better by just being in their comfort zone and just doing what they're good at. If you want to

be one of the greats, you know, like Tiger Woods, Kobe Bryant, those players get out of their comfort zone. And that's what I've done over the years. And if you focus on yourself and compete against yourself, that is the focus that you need at this level. It's so true. And so often, I think I would know what you're going to say to this question, but so often people are trying to be the next Michael Jordan, the next Mia Hamm, rather than being the best Carly Lloyd. And I would imagine that your focus, based on what you just said, is like, no, I'm deeply focused on how to get better for me, not to be somebody else or to be better than somebody else, but to become vulnerable enough and take enough risks on a day-to-day basis so I can figure out my limits.

Exactly, yeah. I mean, you can waste so much energy, you know, focusing your mind on, well, she's better than me and she does this. And, oh, I don't know. If you just focus on yourself, you know, it's harder said than done. But if you just honestly focus on yourself and put all your time and energy into what you need to be doing and what you need to improve upon, that is how you achieve greatness. And that is how some of the greats are able to just keep going and keep getting better.

On the mental side, I would add one more thing. And if I could be so presumptuous to see how you would respond to this, is that that's a requirement, is that you've got to dig in deep to figure out how you can become all of you. And that's the pursuit of potential. And I'm wondering how you respond to how important it is to also help others become great. And the love and the care and the dedication and that I got your back no

matter what experience for your teammates, with your coaches and with your, you know, even your family. Can you riff off of that a little bit? And I'd love to hear your take on that. Well, I think that, you know, what I do is leading by example. The things that I do on and off the field. You can't coach will. You can't hold people's hand and make people do things. But if people see what you're doing and people know how hard I train and they know how dedicated I am to what I'm doing. They know how I thrive under pressure and want to just keep getting better.

And those things, you know, some of the younger players pick up on and want to do them and, you know, want to try. But for me, I think that's how I'm able to help inspire people is the things that I do when no one is watching. How hard I'm working and just all of that really encompasses everything. So you just dedicate so much to refining your craft that other people go, oh my God, well, if she can do that, if she can put that much into it, I could as well. And then rising tide floats all boats, so to speak. Yeah.

I mean, to see where I've started on this team, nearly quitting, and then believing again in myself and having somebody in my corner to push me along this journey and help motivate me, just see where I've come from. I've improved every single year and I'm still improving. So if I can do it. Isn't that the fun part? That is so the fun part. So of all the mental skills, generating confidence, being calm, deep focus, pre-performance routines, which I'm not a fan of, of all the mental skills that we have, what would you say for you are the most important? I could name others like letting go of mistakes. You know, there's so many. Yeah, yeah. There's so many. I mean, I think, you know, I have a routine. I have a game day routine.

It's not superstitious. It's things that I do on my game day. It's things that I do to prepare my mind and prepare my body. I think knowing that I'm outworking everybody else around me gives me such great confidence and such a greater edge on everybody else. Also, visualizing. Isn't it great to know before others know? Yes. I love that phrase. I love the feeling that comes with knowing before anyone else has even recognized what I or my coaches or whatever have known with me. It's a really cool thought.

Can you tell us how you switch on your mind? One of those things that you do in your routine? Well, yeah, I mean, I go for a game day jog in the morning and that's how I get my mind and body going. But as far as the visualizing, I spend time thinking about what I'm going to do in the game, just coming up with different scenarios. But that's played such an important role on my career. And it's very important. And I would say that I'm switched on all the time. So it's not one of these things where I just switch on the day of the game.

Yeah, for sure. And this is going to dovetail into that is that is your imagery routine? Is it the night before? Is it Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday? Is it like, what is your, how often do you do imagery? And then the follow on question to that is, can you taste it? Can you feel it? You know, how can you get all of your senses in your imagery? know, how, um, can you get all of your senses in your imagery or, or, or, you know, what is that experience for you? Uh, it's usually a couple of days before the game starts. He, you know, I, I guess I,

you know, I, I just, I have a way of doing it and that's, you know. I put my music on. I either go on a walk or just sit in bed and I just come up with things. That's kind of how I get into it. Obviously, it's a little bit more amplified when we're in a World Cup or an Olympics. For every game, that's what I do. Every training session, with a World Cup and Olympics, with the days being so short in between for the next game, that's what I do. Every training session with a World Cup and Olympics with the days being so short in between for the next game, it's so important to play the game and then move on and then get ready for the next one. And imagery is part of that

moving on? Yeah, I mean the imagery is important. I think that we can be our own worst critics, which can be very tough. I'm a perfectionist, and that is good and that is bad. But I don't think I would have gotten to this level without being a perfectionist. It is a double-edged sword because it's that thing that gets us really good. And then sometimes it can really get in our way of believing that anything is good enough. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't

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Head to calderalab.com slash findingmastery and use the code code finding mastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash finding mastery. And I want to pull on a different thread just a little bit, which is what has been, knowing that you're a perfectionist, knowing that you lost in the finals of a World Cup game, you almost left the whole thing sitting on the table at U21, what has been the single most difficult moment in your life or time in your life? Of all the things you've been through, it might not be any of those. It might be a breakup with a loved one. It might be something else. But what is the darker side of you being one of the best in the world?

I don't think I can pick one. I think my career has had multiple. And with each one of those, I've come back stronger and been better from it. So I can't pick out one. There's injuries, there's benchings, there's not making rosters, there's missing a PK in a World Cup final. There's so many things. And there will continue to be things throughout my career that I'm going to have to get over. It's so true, isn't it?

When you put it on the line and you're vulnerable enough to take a risk, it doesn't always work out. And yeah, it's a tough. How do you get through it? I've had plenty of them myself. And how do you get through it? Like, what do you do? Do you do you let it like I call it clearing the tube. Sometimes I just got to let it all go.

And I've got to lean on somebody and got to talk it through and sometimes it's more of a private process like how do you do it uh you know I not to keep talking about James but he's my guy that's how I do it you know I talk to him and he talks to me and we get through it. And that's, that's how we do it. You know, I, my, my fiance is a great supporter of me, but it's just different. You know, I can go to him for different things. I can go to my friends for different things, but as far as my career and everything else, you know, James is my go-to person that I can really go to with, with any issues that I'm having and seem to always be, be able to get re-fired up and re-motivated to, to either prove people wrong or, uh, you know, get over an obstacle.

And so are you more driven by, um, the external rewards, the recognition fame the money the the awards or more the internal stuff which is the way it feels to get to to become great to figure out the nuances to take risks and fail and get through it like what is the thing that drives you most um definitely the internal it's you know it's not about being the center of attention and and all of that i i am more so want to be rewarded for the work that i've put in and get the credit that i deserve you know i want to be remembered as one of the greatest soccer players ever and that's what keeps me motivated and keeps me going to get to that point. So when you received the award this year, what was that like? If that's one of the legacy things that you want to have, how did that impact you?

Well, it was huge. I was emotional. It had been 13 years of wanting to be at this event. But it was also an indication that, okay, this is great, but I want to be back here next year and I want to be back here the following year. And now that's the goal. Okay.

To be back there and to become one of the greats. And then is there a phrase that cuts or got, no, not cuts, but is there a phrase that guides your life? Is there something that is like it's the staple or it's the thing that you rely on most? Just, I would say underdog, just being an underdog. That's kind of the motto that I live by each and every day. It doesn't matter what I've accomplished.

I will always remain an underdog and I will go out there each and every day and fight like one. And are you hungry to be the best or are you hungry to be your best? Or are you hungry to be remembered as one of the two? I'm hungry to be the best? Or are you hungry to be remembered as one of the two? I'm hungry to be the best. There you go. Okay. And is there a word that cuts to the center of what you do the best? I just go after it.

I go after things that I say I'm going to accomplish, and eventually they happen. So how do you allow yourself to be vulnerable enough to go after it? Like, it sounds so simple, but it's not. That's my experience, at least. And I know just from knowing what you stand for that you have a tenacity and a grind about you. But how do you go for it? What is the thinking behind that? Because so many people have great ideas, but they stop short of executing on a regular basis.

Because they don't know how to get there. I'm confident enough to say that I want to become the best player in the world. Okay. It didn't happen overnight. It didn't happen in a few months or a couple of years. It took time, but I got there and that's the most important thing. And, um, I just think a lot of people just don't know how to do it.

Okay. I agree. And because the vision's not clear, nor is the goals and the path to get there. And this is, you know, did you ever set goals for yourself or did you ever have a vision? I know you have one now, but did you have one early on? Yeah, I've had goals throughout everything.

You know, get back on the under-21 team, make the full women's national team become a starter um i've had goals all along short-term goals and you know this this this goal winning fisa world player of the year was obviously the the biggest long-term goal um but every goal that i've said i I've accomplished. That's brilliant. And not because it's been handed to you, because you've had to earn it and fight for it and work for it. If I could maybe kind of shift gears and just do like a 1 to 10 on a couple questions and your ability to switch off. Earlier you said that you're always switched on, so maybe that's a 10.

But your ability to switch off, to go to sleep, to shut her down, to not be competitive in certain circumstances. 10 being I can do that? Yeah, 10 being, yeah, I got that locked in. Yeah, I mean, I think it's easy for me to go to bed at night. How about your ability to manage the internal noise and distractions? Yeah, I would probably say

maybe a seven. Seven. There's a phrase that I think about often that at any given point in time we're standing civil war within ourselves. And there's that inner critic that's kind of going battle. Do you have an inner critic? And if you do, how do you manage it? I do sometimes, yeah. If I've had a bad day at practice, it affects me throughout my day. But I think as I've gotten older, I learned to just roll it off and worry about the next day and get ready for the next day. And so is your inner critic, that inner dialogue that has a bite to it, is it just on the field? Or does that also carry into your love life and work endeavors and other things where you're not doing the thing that you're exceptional, world-renowned at?

I think that it definitely translates off the field as well. I'm constantly finding ways to be better, better person, better fiance, all that. Yeah, I hear that. And then one to ten, your ability to lock in when it's boring. That's a tough one. Yeah, that's tough.

What number would you give yourself? Yeah, I would probably say like a two or something. Yeah. How about when it's dangerous? Dangerous? Maybe my younger days, I would probably say a seven, maybe a bit more reserve right now, maybe a five. Okay. And then what's harder for you, emotional risk or physical risk? That's a tough one. Yeah.

Maybe emotional. Yeah, it is. I feel the same thing, for sure. Yeah. On my side. And then, if fear of failure and fear of success are on the same coin but different sides,

is there one that's more weighted than the other for you? I would say, you know, obviously the fear of failure. Is that looking... For how hard, yeah. Is it looking bad? Is it the consequence of loss? Is it, you know, feeling coming up short? Like, for you, what's the thing that's so bad about failure?

Well, for me, I would say it's the amount of work and dedication that I put into it. That sometimes I get nervous. Well, what if I don't do well? But I think that mindset has changed as I've gotten older and gone on this journey. I would say it's flipped a bit now. Where does pressure come from? Sure. I thrive under pressure, from? Sure. I thrive under pressure, to be honest. You enjoy it?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. How do you think about it? Well, when there's people that are doubting you, it just adds fuel to my fire and motivates me even more. You must be gnarly to compete against. You don't want to mess with me. Yeah, that is really cool. Does that translate to your competitors?

Do you think they notice that? Absolutely. I've played with players who are very, very intimidated by me, and that's the plan, I guess. That's the plan. Okay, so how about if you were to finish this thought? It all comes down to? Working hard.

The crossroad in my life was? Nearly quitting. If I had the chance to do it over again? I would become much more fit when I was younger oh no kidding what so more specific with the drills that you're doing to have you know in intercourse strength or whatever that might be yeah I just didn't I I would run more. Yeah. Success is? Rewarding. That's cool.

Most people say something about it's this thing later. Success is achieving my final goal. And you're saying, no, I get it all the time. It's really rewarding. That is all. Yeah, which is I'm imagining daily success, like little mini wins of whatever. Yeah.

Like figuring something out. Okay. Love. Is tough. Relationships. Oh, I would say, you know what? Love is amazing. And I would say relationships is tough.

Yeah, yeah. My wife and I laugh about, like, for us, it's like this daily decision, this perpetual daily decision to do loving things. Yes. Yeah, it's a verb, and it requires intent and action. And it is work in a relationship. Yep. I am...

Relentless. It fits really good with it all comes down to work. Yeah, really good. All right, just a couple more questions. What do you hope the next generation gets right? I want to see the next generation not feel entitled to things. There's been this great sense of entitlement, really, and not having to really

work hard to achieve things. I think there's been a shift in generation and I just want to see that change. And then, so part of that entitlement, I think there's a struggle for gratitude. And then, so when I mentioned the word gratitude, what or who comes to mind to you? I would say my close family and friends. Yeah, so it's people mostly that you're grateful for? Yeah.

Yeah, okay. And then last question is, in your words, how do you define or articulate or how do you talk about this concept of mastery? It's really everything um it's it's a part of who i am uh it's a part of my career it's really when you get to this level and you know just speaking on the professional side of things it takes a lot to be able to stay at the top and a lot to mentally get through some of the things that we get through. So it's not easy by any means. I'm 33, have over 200 caps with this team and still struggle with confidence and all of that that comes with it so i i was asking a um one of the previous guests and um he's a soccer player baggio hasidic i don't know if you know who he is on the galaxy and he i asked this question i said

hey if there's someone else on the podcast uh that that you would have a question for what they're a true master of craft what would would you ask them? And he asked the question he wanted to ask, and I want to pay it forward to you is when did they know that they were one of the best? And do you have a thought around that? So when did I know? Yeah. I would say it started in 2012 after the Olympic final for me. So when you got the result you were looking for and you had the performance that matched the result, that's when you knew? Yeah. The whole situation that I had to go through.

Yeah. Yeah. That was not easy for you, I imagine. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that's when you knew. When you got through it, you got tested, and you said, okay, I'm here.

Yeah, yeah. And then the next couple of years, I think, I was just playing my best soccer and kept improving. So I really believed that I could separate myself from other people, other players. Do you have a question that we could pay forward to another master of craft that you would be interested in learning from them? Let's see. I would say I'd be curious to know if they think, like, what percentage of this and these journeys are mental, like the mental aspect? Like, if they really consider mental preparation more important or physical preparation? And would you be asking them as a master, like one of the best in the world or them when they were developing their skill?

We're always still developing the skill, but like if their peer set is other best in the world, is that what you would want to understand? Yeah, I would say someone who's at the top and who has tried to just stay and hover at the top. I'll definitely pay that forward for you. And then I'm curious, how do you answer it? What do you think it is? Well, I know physical preparation for me is huge, but I also know that the number one thing that has gotten me this far has

been my mental approach. And without that, I don't think that I would have been as dominant without it. That's awesome. And you had someone helping you teach it and refine it and develop it and find it. And yeah, it's so, you know, Carly, we do not do a good job in America of teaching the next generation or even our generation or the generations before about how to use our minds. We're told to focus. We're told to believe in ourselves, but we're not told the mechanics of it. And we're told the mechanics of how to kick a ball and keep it low and find a corner, but not told how to actually use our mind to accelerate or even find our potential. And God, you're such a bright, just a beacon for exactly that for the next generation.

I hope you capture it. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if you, I'm sure you realize how important what you have said, even in this conversation, but when you have it in so many places, to value the mental training, to value the psychology, and to train it. And God, I hope you capture that voice and have an incredible gift to give to the next generation. Thanks. Yeah, I totally agree with you. Yeah. Okay.

Where can we learn more about what you're up to? All social media platforms, my website, carlylloyd.com, social media is just carlylloyd. Yeah, that's pretty much it. Brilliant. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you so much for diving deep and getting into the psychology of what goes into mastery of craft. And for those of you who are still with us, if you enjoyed this conversation, head over

to iTunes for Finding Mastery and also findingmastery.net. You can find this and a bunch of other podcast episodes as well. Carly, thank you so much. I love this conversation. I'm rooting for you and I hope that you get everything that you work your ass off for. So thank you so much. Thank you. Really appreciate it. Thanks. Bye-bye. Really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already,

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