Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Day 1 - The Stage is Set | The Game Inside the Games

Episode Date: July 26, 2024

WELCOME TO... The Game Inside the Games, brought to you right from the heart of Paris.In the premiere episode of The Game Inside The Games, five-time Olympic medalist Nastia Liukin and high-performance psychologist Dr. Michael Gervais explore the psychological challenges athletes face at the start of the Olympics. If you had the biggest exam of your life tomorrow… would you go to a party the night before? Many viewers may not realize, but this is a critical decision many Olympians face when deciding whether or not to attend the opening ceremony. They break down the impact of often unseen moments – like missing practice due to transportation issues or navigating the hype of the opening ceremony – on an athlete’s mindset and performance. And they bring in a very special guest – 3-time Olympic gold medalist and one of the greatest beach volleyball players to ever do it, Kerri Walsh Jennings – to explore her unique Olympic perspective.Enjoy Day 1 of The Game Inside The Games.*This episode is brought to you by PwC and Microsoft. PWC elevates your AI transformation with Copilot for Microsoft 365. Learn more here._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Day one from Paris. We're exploring a question many may not think of. Does an Olympian participate in the opening ceremonies? Let's dive in. Welcome to the Game Inside the Games presented by Microsoft Co-Pilot. And I'm here today with five-time medalist Nassi Aloukian, who also won a gold medal in gymnastics in the all-around. So, Nassi, you've got a unique experience of what it's like to compete in the Olympic Games, to be in the amphitheater, one of the most celebrated sporting environments.

And there's something that people that have not had the experience that you've had, the wealth and the richness of information and the way that you have operated in that arena is something that's really unique. And I'm really excited to have you here to talk about the game inside the games. And I think, first of all, thank you. And I think what is so cool, the first time that we spoke when I was on Finding Mastery, I was just so enamored by the fact that you knew exactly how or why

I did all the things that I did because I was taught and told to do them. And I didn't really know why, but it worked. You know, it helped me win that Olympic gold medal. And so I think what's so unique about even having these conversations is the internal experience that you can help everybody understand, even myself. And I think that is so special. And I think it's something that people watching at home, they don't see that. They see either the gold medal winning moments, the fairytale days, or the days of disappointment. And they don't know why. Why did that happen? Why did somebody that has been the absolute best falter? That's exactly. So that really, when we talk about the

game inside the games, we're pointing to the psychology of the experience, how we prepare to be able to adjust, how we ready ourselves to be able to be our very best, independent of the environment. And we're just using one of the greatest sporting environments ever to highlight how psychology works. Absolutely. And I think that's something that comes with being a professional athlete. I remember my dad, who was my coach, also an Olympic gold medalist himself. And, you know, I would come to a competition and tell him that, you know, maybe the beam felt crooked or it was too hot or the chalk feels weird. Like,

you know, make these excuses in my head almost. And he said, that's part of being a professional athlete. You have to learn how to adapt. And that's only on you. Nobody else can do that for you. So as much as you have your team, you're part of a team here and you're helping the athlete be the absolute best at the end of the day, the athlete has to do it. They're the one that walks into the amphitheater on the floor, whatever the experience is, whatever it is that this athlete is here for a reason. They've trained their whole entire life for this moment and not to like take away from any other sport, but think about the Olympic games.

It's once in every four years. And for somebody, it's myself included. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity and experience to be your absolute best on the day that it mattered. How? Why? Why? How and why? Like, how do we do that? There's about 10,000

athletes that are here and for some of those athletes they are the celebration has already begun because they're here for other athletes they've got their eye on the podium and they're in that small margin of people that potentially can win and people that, you know, maybe don't have the physical or technical or psychological abilities to compete against the ones that are absolutely on the path for gold or silver or bronze. So there's a difference between some folks that are here and some folks that are competing for a medal. And you were one of those folks that were competing for a medal. Yeah, I guess, you know, it's being named to an Olympic team. You put a check by it.

And I felt like I was able to do that. And then you're not actually an official Olympian until you step foot on the competition floor and you compete for the first time. So now you're considered an Olympian. But for us, it didn't stop there. You know, we had the team finals. We had the all-around finals, the event finals, so many different opportunities to become an Olympic champion. And for me, it was something that I dreamed about ever since I was a little girl. So making it for me wasn't enough.

So what did you do for the opening ceremonies? We didn't intend. You know, I think I don't have any regrets, but if I could have had the best of both worlds, I wish I would have gone. It was the one experience that I, every single time the Olympics comes around, I'm like, I wish I could have gone. That being said, we compete the next day. And I think that, yes, the, the question, this is a question for every team that I've ever worked with is, do we walk or not? And it does matter when your first actual competition is. The best guidance that I've heard is like, if it's the next day, you really have to consider

it. And the reason is you're on your feet for six to eight hours. And this one actually here might be an extended because there's a loading onto a boat. There's a loading off of a boat. So this might be nine hours on your feet. Even if you don't have the biggest competition of your life the next day, you know, like it sounds silly to say you might be on your feet for six to nine hours as a professional athlete, but really it is, we're not used to also standing. we're used to being active and you know you're bought you're doing something essentially that you've never done in your life unless you've been

to an opening ceremony at olympics before so i'm gonna i'm gonna flip the page a little bit i'm gonna ask you you have a big exam tomorrow you going to the party the night before i'm personally not going and i think there is a very personal experience involved in whether you go or you don't go. Sometimes the team makes the decision for everybody. And if you have the opportunity to actually make a decision, you need to know yourself. You need to know how you respond. And if you think about it, like your cup is full, if it's already full while you're here, going and doing the opening ceremony likely is going to spill over your cup. If however, you really have been looking forward to it, you're energized by the connectivity,

the energy, it's a great thing to go do. Absolutely. But you need to know yourself. And this is where psychology is really the study of self to really know yourself. And if you don't invest in knowing how you think and how you respond, this becomes a bit overwhelming for folks. And for the most part though, once you know kind of how you respond to things, the decisions are easier. But I will say all of the teams that I've worked with,

this is a thing and it takes up a lot of space. Do we walk? Do we not walk? What do you think? Am I going to miss out? Because you don't want to have regret. You know, it's for so many, like I said, it's once in a lifetime. What if you never get to go again?

But some people, some of the teams I've worked with, they don't care. They're like, listen, I'm coming here for a reason. Absolutely. And that is not it. I'm coming here to be my very best, to put myself in a situation. And that fundamental commitment, it's so clear. And that was for me exactly what you're saying. That's exactly how I felt, but you still want to have it all. Well, this is a fun

little, it's a social experiment that's happening right now is that we're aware of what we're missing through social media and there's a party happening. Absolutely. And when you watch it and you're invited to it, that's very cool. And when you're watching from a distance, it looks like everybody's big smiles. It's an amazing thing. I mean, I have like goosebumps thinking about it and I didn't even attend my own opening ceremony, but thinking about that. So then you think, how could I miss that? And then I reel myself back in. I'm like, because you have the Olympic qualifying round of the competition tomorrow. And while you may not win a medal there, you can certainly lose every single medal there. If you don't qualify to the team finals, no medal. If you don't qualify to the all-around finals,

no medal. Event finals, all of that. So again, you can't win a medal tomorrow, but you can certainly lose one. There you go. And so we got to sit down with another legend in her sport, Kerry Walsh Jennings, and she's won three golds and one bronze. And so we got to sit down with another legend in her sport, Kerry Walsh Jennings, and she's won three golds and one bronze. And I'd love for us to listen to what she has to say. I would recommend everyone do it because there's plenty of moments to sit down. There's plenty of moments to like recover and just be lazy and you're not on your feet the whole time, you know.

But if you're going to go in there and carry that stress and that like maybe regret, like maybe choose not to, like I committed and I was good with it. You know, if you have this push pull on yourself, maybe know yourself and you know, know yourself. In Rio it was the next day, but it was like a midnight. Oh, it was really late. Yeah. And so, and you're next.

And we didn't go in Rio and I really wish we would have. Oh, you do? I do. It was so fortifying to me. And it just filled up my tank so much that it was worth it. You know? And I don't have regrets in my life, really. I just want to learn from them.

But, you know, to do Rio over again, I would have gone. It matters. It really matters. Was there a connection with you and Misty or April? Oh, you didn't do it with April. Didn't do it with April. Was there any fortifying connection between you and your teammates and partners as well? Oh, my God.

It was so fun walking arm in arm with Misty. We're being little girls around USA Basketball and all the other athletes. And it's wonderful. Awesome. I think it's a worthwhile experience. But, you know, we're all different. So it's just like if it's not going to serve you, know yourself. I can't judge anybody.

I never went to a closing. And i'm actually really sad about and i wonder if everyone went to closing if it would help ease the post-olympic blues because it would be a bow at the end would be my hope you know that's really good and it's a celebration you know it's interesting hearing her talk about closing and just like carrie I really like to live my life without regret. And it is the one regret that I have. I wish, while closing ceremony isn't as big and exciting as the opening, it is a celebration, especially when you win. You know, you want to celebrate.

But at the same time, I could not wait to go home. I was so exhausted mentally, physically, emotionally, all of the things I wanted to sleep in my own bed. I just want to see my dog. I really wanted to go home. And then you're also handed now this schedule of, you have to go do Jay Leno. You have to go do this, this, and this. So it's almost like I didn't really have a choice in the moment. I didn't want to go in the moment. I was so ready to leave and go home. The older I got and the more Olympics I went to on the other side, the more that regret kind of felt stronger.

But for the opening ceremony, you know, we train six or seven hours a day the day before we compete. So I'm just listening to her thinking every sport is also so different. As she mentions, every person is so different. And I completely agree. Do I wish I could have gone to opening? Absolutely. I wish we could have the best of both worlds. I wish gymnastics wasn't right after, but even if it wasn't, I don't, we didn't have a single day that we didn't train at least five hours. We did not have one day off. So even from a timing perspective, it's, it's an interesting thought of how do you even make this work? You know, when you're so used to being on the schedule,

why would you break your schedule? The most important week of your training career, you know? So it's, it's, it's so hard listening to her like having that moment i just i was almost putting myself in her shoes of sitting under the fire like i just like got goosebumps thinking about it because she explained it so so well that i could imagine myself there even though i never was there what's that like for you to hear now looking back at your decision or your team's decision to not go yeah it was a team decision it was something that i don't regret that because we were also there for each other not going and spending six to eight hours on our feet was not just for ourselves in our own body it was for each other was for the, to be the best versions

of ourselves for one another and for our country. I know that if I personally would have gone to an opening ceremony and was on my feet for eight hours, I would be no good tomorrow. Just knowing myself. And that's exactly what we talk about is you have to know yourself. And I think, so that's why I don't regret that decision. I wish I would have gone to closing. I wish I could have celebrated. Was it an easy decision at the time? Meaning, did the coach make the decision?

Did your teammates huddle? No, it wasn't a conversation. It was our head coach at the time. It was just kind of like told to us. And I think we knew it and we expected it because no other gym. Not that I can't even remember any gymnastics team on the women's side that is gone. And now I'm like, correct me if I'm wrong, but gymnastics is always the day after. And so I don't remember any based on my knowledge, the few Olympics before mine, I know that the

women's gymnastics team didn't go to. So it was like, that's what they did. That's what we're going to do. You follow, you know, who came before you. And so it was just, we knew that. Yeah. So that sounds like it was pretty easy in that way. Yeah. Yeah. And looking back, you're, you're, you're good with it. You're like, of course, that's how we do it. I am. Yeah, I am because I know that we were doing it to show up for each other. You mentioned timing. There's a story that's unfolding and transportation has become an issue here. The stress around transportation of getting to practice before the games have even started has been something that many athletes

are talking about. It's hard right now. The city is doing their very best for transportation, but rides that are estimated to take 30 minutes are taking up to an hour and a half. So there's even a team that I'm aware of that because of traffic, they left an hour and a half before for a 30 minute ride, they ended up missing their complete training window. I can't imagine that happening. Meaning I know it happened. I can't imagine being in that situation. In gymnastics, you get one training on the Olympic floor.

One. That's right. Same with the sport that I'm supporting right now. You get one in the man arena. And imagine it was that day. Yeah. I mean, I honestly, I can't imagine. Yes. You're a professional athlete. Yes. You have to adapt and adjust, but I think it's something about the control, right? It's, it's not in your control, but it's also like transportation. Like it feels there's, but then there's nothing you can really do about it in that moment. If you miss your training, but then it's, is it fair to give you another, you know,

there's so many. No, no. So, so I witnessed this conversation. The coach was saying, Hey, listen, this isn't, this isn't right. That's like, right. We, so let me pull back. Each team gets assigned when they're going to train and there's only one or two trainings a day, depending on, and most teams are doing double days right now.

You don't know that necessarily, but the training load right before the game start is really intense. So the coach was saying to the delegate, hey, listen, this isn't right. We only get a couple of practices. It was out of our control. The driver went the wrong way. We got met in a barricade.

And also not to mention it's transportation, the drivers that are the organizing committees, right? They're the official Olympic transportation buses and whatnot. Yeah, this is not like- So you're not getting an Uber going to the US. No, no, no. This is the, yeah. Right. So talk to the official. So did they get to have another training? As he's pleading his case, the delegate looked him right back in the eye and said, welcome to the Olympics.

And it was kind of like, look, this is your shot. This is your chance. Get here two hours ahead of time if you need be, whatever it takes. And so there was no practice. That team missed their one of a handful of practices. And so now, so now do you respond to that above the line or below the line? And above the line response is you work with it and you say, hey, listen, everyone, we're, we are good. This, we don't need this.

So it's an above the line, optimistic, we'll adjust, we'll figure it out. Or is it a below the line, like embarrassment? I'm so sorry. We screwed this up, or blaming frustration and tolerance. Not fair, right. That's right. So the response is really the mark of the mindset. Do you respond optimistically or do you respond in frustration or intolerance?

And also knowing in that moment it was out of your control. This was completely out of their control. Now, now, how do they respond to the next practice? Did they get there really early? And in that really early, are they waiting around in the sun or potentially the rain? So there's a whole balance to be able to navigate, to put yourself in the best situation, to be your very best. And actually, so there's a thing that we just learned as well, is that when you leave the

venue and the athletes and coaches load on, that they put red tape on the doors and windows. And that seal can't be broken if you're heading back to the village. If that seal is broken, it's an unsecure vehicle. So just yesterday, this happened to, it was probably about six teams that were on the bus. And two wheel rotations in. Somebody from outside says, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So the bus driver stopped and opened the door. And then she says, oh gosh, I'm so sorry, but you've broken the seal.

So they had to completely start the whole thing over again. And what that ended up putting another 30 minutes on the entire security process. So now you've got a bunch of athletes that were done with practice and the ones, so this is the game inside the games, the ones that were able to work well with that and just be a little bit like mine, like water and just let it roll off their back. It's out of my control. What's in my control is how I respond. And you could see the ones that were well-trained because on the bus, they put in their headphones. They kind of smile. Either they're going to listen to good music. They're going to connect with some friends. They're going to do some meditation. They're going to do some breathing work. And the ones that were like rolling their

eyes, looking at each other, sighing and groaning, all of that bad body language is a signal that they are really struggling to adjust and adapt. And at this level, adjusting and adapting is the name of the game. You've shared this eloquently so often is that everyone here has got physical technical skills, like world-class, world-leading technical skills. You have to have a certain level to be at the Olympics. And there is a very clear understanding that it's the mental skills. It's the mental game that really creates a distinct advantage. If you know how to deal with challenges, to pivot, to adjust,

to eloquently make some decisions to put yourself in a best situation, even if the situation is not ideal. Yeah. And so did you have anything like that when you were competing? Gosh, it's so interesting because I'm sure we did, you know, and I'm sure that I remember specifically the bus and the transportation of the coaches. We weren't really part of the decision because we let them do that for us. I remember them having little discussions and team meetings, looking at this like spreadsheet of bus schedules and which bus was going to which venue in arena and training hall in the times. And then they

would subtract and make, okay, well, we have to get there at least 20 minutes before the training starts. But that means for, to allow traffic in Beijing. I mean, it was very much. And if somebody messed up, it was almost like was their fault, but But then it's then you put on top of that, the traffic, things that aren't in anybody's control. So I do remember that being like, I remember it so clearly, like the coaches like standing in the corner looking at the spreadsheet, but we just kind of went like that wasn't our responsibility. So we just showed up. If someone missed the bus, forget it. Right now we're watching before the games have even started a whole set of circumstances that are choices and decisions and a whole set of circumstances that are challenging people before the thing has even started. And that nobody sees. That's all behind

the scenes. Behind the scenes. And I think that is the most incredible thing about seeing these athletes. Once the competition begins, you don't even know what they've all just been through. They've all been here at least a week training, you know, getting acclimated, getting adjusted to the time zone, the, you know, the equipment for some, it's a little bit different, the weather, the. Some people are going through a grieving process. They've lost a loved one. Some people are going through a separation or divorce. And some people, they're not burdened by some of those more difficult emotional tragedies.

They can block it out. Yeah. And so there's a whole set of things that are taking place for people. And there's even one that I'm sure this won't raise to the level of media. But on the bus, it was longer than expected by about double the duration. And one of the athletes said to the driver, I am so sorry.

I am so sorry, but I have to go to the bathroom. And the driver said, I'm sorry, I can't stop. I can't break the seal basically because I'd have to go all the way back to get recertified and I'm sorry, I can't. And she said, I have to go to the way back to get re-certified and I'm sorry I can't and she said I have to go to the bathroom I'm sorry I can't make that adjustment this was a semi-crowded bus one of the big it looks like a city transit bus but you know it's only for the athletes and coaches and so everyone kind of took care of her she went to the back of the uh of the bus and went to the bathroom on the bus like think just think about like that for a moment

no these it doesn't seem like it's um it's acceptable but you you do the best what else you're gonna do in that point what else you can what like there's literally nothing else you can do yeah so that's why i say it's risen to the level of intensity like there's a there's a conversation about traffic right now and i think it we all think it's risen to the level of intensity. Like there's a, there's a conversation about traffic right now. And I think it, we all think it's going to change post opening ceremonies. So it was an intensity around opening ceremonies. And, and did you see the amount of officers and police and military? This is a presence that I've never seen before.

And all four of the games I've been to, I've never seen this level of military presence walk in the streets. And just the streets, right? Like even, you know, I'm not staying in the village and just being outside of the Olympic, you know, zones and whatever. It's certainly there as well. So it's all things that we all see and the athletes see. And it's something that everybody notices, whether it's that, whether it's the transportation,

whether it's the weather, if you're an outdoor athlete, you know, it's like me being a gymnast, we didn't care what the weather was, right? But in beach volleyball, you have to, it's so many little things that aren't so little that you have to deal with as a professional athlete. All right, now it's time for our AI Insight brought to you by PwC and Microsoft. PwC elevates your AI transformation, and it does it with Copilot for Microsoft 365. Let's try it out. Hey, Copilot, what are the three main takeaways from today's episode? Sure, Nastia. Here are a few key insights from your conversation. One, athletes need to develop mental skills to handle the immense pressure and unexpected challenges of the Olympics. Two, the decision of whether or not to attend the opening ceremony can have a

significant effect on an athlete's experience and performance. Three, athletes must be adaptable and prepared for unforeseen circumstances. The ability to stay flexible and maintain focus despite disruptions or distractions is crucial for success. Thanks, GoPilot. That is awesome. And thank you, Nastia, for a great conversation today. I'm really looking forward to our episode tomorrow as well. Me too, Mike. See you guys tomorrow from Terrace.