Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Day 12 – "Pain is Temporary, Glory is Forever": The Sinkovic Brothers' Gold Medal Mindset | The Game Inside The Games

Episode Date: August 6, 2024

Rowing is a sport that brings the mind into play like no other. When they are maxing out their physical capacity, completely mentally drained, and have little left in the tank – how do they summon the internal resources to push through?On Day 12 of The Game Inside the Games, Nastia Liukin and Dr. Michael Gervais sit down with rowing legends – and brothers – Martin and Valent Sinkovic, who recently won their third gold medal here in Paris.  The Sinkovic brothers discuss their thrilling gold medal race, detailing the mental and physical challenges they faced, particularly when they were behind and had to summon the strength for an incredible comeback late in the race.They break down their perspective on pain, perseverance, trust, internal motivation, and managing pre-race emotions. And most importantly, they share their powerful perspective on life – that high performance and joy can co-exist, and that sometimes we all need to experience a little pain… a little discomfort… to live a more fulfilling life. The Sinkovic brothers are an emblem for the good life, and we all have something to learn from their experience and insight. This episode is brought to you by NTT Data and Microsoft.NTT Data is transforming the workplace with Copilot for Microsoft 365._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Day 12 in Paris. Your tank is empty. You've fallen way behind the leader. How do you summon the internal resources to come back and win gold? We have a couple of incredible Olympians who are going to help us answer that question. Welcome back, or welcome to The Game Inside the Games on Finding Mastery. I'm Dr. Michael Gervais by trade and training a high-performance psychologist. And I'm Nosti Lukin, Olympic gold medalist. And we are here in Paris. And in this special series, we unlock the psychology of pivotal, often unseen moments that can make or break an athlete's dream. What's it like to focus a lifetime of experience into one performance, a single moment? What goes on inside the minds of the brightest stars while the whole world is watching? Welcome back to Paris and let's dive into The Game Inside the Games.

Welcome back to Paris and The Game Inside the Games presented by Microsoft Co-Pilot. Today, we're sitting down with two rowing legends and brothers, Martin and Valent Sinkovic, who won their third gold medal here in Paris, defeating Great Britain with an incredible surge late in the race. Rowing is a sport that brings the mind into play like no other. The physical demands, the relationship with pain. Down two and a half seconds to the Great Britain team with little left in the tank. How does one summon the internal resources to come back and win gold? We're about to find out.

First of all, welcome. Congratulations. Really nice intro, I have to say. Yeah, well done. So take us back to those final moments of the race when, you know, you're about to win the gold medal. Can you recall those feelings, the emotions, what was going on in your mind? Yeah, I think the final moments are the easiest one, you know. to win the gold medal. Can you recall those feelings, the emotions, what was going on in your mind? Yeah, I think the final moments are the easiest one.

You know, last 300 meters, you can't feel anything anymore. You know, you are dead tired. So I can honestly say that is the easiest part of the race. But I think the hardest for us was on 1,000 meters. So in the middle of the race, we were already really tired. And we think we wouldn't even get the medal. You know, we thought, okay, we will fight for the medal. We'll give our best, hope we will get the bronze. But then, you know, we start to push hard.

We start to suppress the Swiss and the Romanian guys. And we see the Britons are really close to us. And then we start all in. And I even, I looked at the race today. I saw that like for the last 350 meters, we had like 44 strokes, 44 strokes per minutes, which is really, really high. What is the normal approximately? 38, 39. Okay. is the normal, approximately?

38, 39. Okay, wow. Oh, so you were moving. So did both of you have that same feeling at about, let's say, 1,000 meters where it was like, oh, no, uh-oh, it's slipping away? Did both of you have the same type of experience? Yeah, yeah, for sure. We talked about it after the race.

Because in the rowing race, you can't talk to each other because it's too painful and you don't have a break. We just hear a few comments when we are getting up with a stroke rate and I'm on the stroke and a brother follows me. And then I just say, go into the car. Not like that, we have just say, go into the car. Not like that. We have just one word. You grunt.

Yeah. Like, go. And then we go together. But yeah, like Marty said, on the middle of the race, when we pushed, I said to him, go. And we pushed for the next 200 meters. And nothing happened, you know. And even Swiss crew were more in front of us than before happened you know and even uh even swiss crew were

more in front of us than before you know oh that's interesting so you're so you realize you're behind you said uh oh in your mind it's slipping away it weren't the tactics it was say it again it weren't the taxi the tactics you know the darkness was different you know but everything everything was outside of what we hoped to do you know and so you've got enough in you to say let's push so you go and then when you're still behind what happened what was the psychology at that point i think we're just trying to do our best in that point and i think that is good because what valent said you can't talk to each other during the race. It's better because you are trying to do your best and you don't know what the other one thinks.

You always hope he thinks he's good. He don't, but you always hope for that. So, you know, it's just in my mind was only, I want to do our best, my best, and I want to do what I can to be the best as I can, you know, because when you do your best, my best and I want to do what I can to be the best as I can, you know, because when you do your best, if you are 40 you don't have anything to regret

because you did the best you can I felt when I said go in the middle of the race I felt on Martin his breathing and everything that he is dead, like he is really tired, you can feel that. You know, we are together for 15 years.

And I felt it. And I said to him, I said, oh, my God, we can't get medal, you know, because we are forced already. Because you could tell that he was already not fit. And I felt it for a few strokes. He didn't like normally when I said go, he pushed me, you know. And he didn't push me at that moment for a few strokes and then I was I was just thinking with myself oh my god I'm tired he's probably dead and we are

fourth you know so what was it in that moment how how how did you snap that and turn it around and was it you was it you taking the lead a little bit and pushing? Yeah, I took the lead, but he needs to help. Yeah, of course. And then I felt he's trying to do it, you know? Okay. And then, yeah. So maybe the question is for you. Yeah, I don't know what he was thinking. What were you thinking when you could feel you were so done, exhausted, just drained? How did you flip your mind to make yourself believe that your body actually had a little bit more? I think this may be a question for you, but I never see myself like really a psychology good person. Obviously, we are. Obviously, because we won three golds.

But I never looked at myself like that. I was just, like I said, I tried to do my best. I tried to do my best. I tried to push myself to the limit. I didn't want to get in the end of the race and to think I could do more. I would be angry at myself if I did that. You'll what? Be angry.

Be angry at yourself. Angry at myself. Because we had one race before in the last World Cup. The race before the Olympics. Before the Olympics. So the Swiss guys beat us there for i don't know one and a half second and we were happy with that because uh before we were like three or four seconds behind them but i felt we can do more that race maybe even be better than

them but i i think we have more in us and I was really not happy with that race. Not because we were second, but because we didn't do our best. So there's a big difference between trying to be the best and your best. And you've said it 15 times that you fundamentally committing to being your best. I just want to make sure I'm hearing it clearly that you're not trying to be the best. Yeah. We try to be the best of ourselves. And I think that's the reason why we are in the biggest throwing stage

for 15 years. From 2010 till now, 2024, every major competition, every year, we just on one competition didn't get the medal. Oh, my goodness. In 2022, on the World Championship. You remember exactly. On all the other, mostly we get the gold, but we always came with the medal, you know.

And I think we are most proud of that. Not just one individual medal or one competition, the gold but we always came with the medal you know and i think we are most proud of that not just one individual matter or one competition but we can for last 15 15 years we were on top yeah but what you were what we are talking uh our best so i think uh when you look at the athletes somebody can be the second but if he have the strength and everything, if he could be the first, I think it's not that good because you didn't be your best. But somebody who can, who have a limit like to be sixth and came in the fifth place, I think it's a...

Personal best. Yeah, but I think it's a bigger success than Yeah. But I think it's, it's a bigger success than if you are second, but you could be first. Yeah. If you understand what I'm trying to say, I really appreciate guys. 100%. There's, there's two parts in this. One is when, when you're right at your edge and, and you're exhausted, I was speaking with a cyclist and he was talking about during his race, it feels like there's a toaster inside his chest, full heat at 10 out of 10 on heat for an hour. And so that type of boiling feeling from the inside is so agitating, so difficult. Most people would never begin to understand what it feels like to be in your

body and use your mind to stay in it. One more stroke, one more stroke. So how do you teach the person that struggles with fatigue, that struggles with discomfort, that struggles? Yeah. How do you take the next step to unlock the best version of Yeah. I think you need to train that. You need to train that. And it's easiest, not easiest mentally, but it's easier for me. It's easier to do it on a big stage to be, then to do it every, every day. You know, when you are alone, sometimes during the, during the winter, we train on rowing machine, you know, inside, inside, and we train on a rowing machine.

Inside. Inside. And you are alone with a rowing machine. And on a rowing machine ergometer, you can see every stroke, how you're pulling. You'll see the number. You'll see the number. I almost want to hide it.

It's honest. Yeah, it's really honest. And you know, a rowing machine is never tired. It's the same number. You are tired and you don't do the number. And then it gets tough to suppress that pain. So why do you, what is your purpose? Because there's an idea.

When the purpose is big, you can deal with just about any pain. So what is your purpose? First, do you agree with that statement? Yeah, definitely. And one more statement you hear it a lot but i really like it and that's the thing with what could help the people when when you say the pain is temporary glory is forever and that's true i wouldn't be happy if if i came second and i knew that i have a little bit more in my tank i'll be disappointed

and i will i would think about that for years and years yeah so it's better to feel uncomfortable for three or four minutes more uncomfortable than before than to be uncomfortable for years for whole life even i can say when you're feeling dead you're going in some training random training you know and you don't feel it to do it you don't feel just talking about it you like to go out of the bed literally the exact thing i was just saying yeah right and then you do it and you do your best and then after that training you feel much better you know those are the days to do it yeah That's when you get stronger. Yeah, not the easy days, not the easy competitions,

but the hard days. Easy is when you're fresh, you're feeling popped, you go to training, do it. Yeah, sounds easy. Sounds easy. It's much easier. Well, it's good to have those days for consistency, but it's the hard days that you get stronger. When you don't want to do it,

when you don't want to get out of bed, you don't want to go to training, you don't want to do it when you don't want to get out of bed you don't want to go to training you don't want to do but you show up for yourself and each other for you you know you do it and then you're sure when the race comes and you pass dead days exactly and uh for the we had really upside down this season especially in the beginning of the season we didn't throw really good we were fourth at first world cup fourth and the european europeans and we couldn't match each other you know uh it was really painful and we didn't we didn't go that well but i remember first world cup uh in the final we managed to go in the final but but slowest you know slowest time we know we know we knew we are not competitive to get the medal and then i had some pain in my uh in my tooth you know and it was

like uh swelling up and stuff like that yeah he was on the on the medication for that you know and that on the final on the start of the final I thought to myself now if I give my best you know and we came fourth at the best then when I go to the Olympics it will be easy to give my best

I can honestly say I was more proud of myself that time when we went fourth than the other World Cup when we were second I was was more proud of myself that time when we went fourth than the other World Cup when we were second. I was really more proud of us. And that's what you were talking about, what pushes us. For me, I like to train. I like this lifestyle. I really enjoyed it.

So the competition, if I do it good, I know I can continue this lifestyle. I know I'll be satisfied with myself next few years. So I think that's probably the reason it pushes me every day. So I know if I do the good trainings, I will enjoy it. I can be good on the competitions. And then I will have a strength and I will have the ability to push on a few more years. So I hear two things on motivation. hear i want the good life i like my lifestyle okay so there's an image of how you want to live your life the second i hear in this you might not like this okay okay but the second

thing i hear is you you don't want to have regrets. And so there's a fear. You're operating from a fear that I don't want to blow it. I don't want to come up short. I don't want to feel the, the something more to give. Yeah. That I didn't give everything. So talk about the fear that helps you be great,

helps you be your best. And sorry, part two, is that healthy i feel good so so yes so you feel good you you like who you are you like who you are definitely i'm happy with my life yeah i'm happy with myself i'm happy with my life i think that's just a fear because few race i didn't go do our my best and i couldn't wait the next race to show that i can do it not not to somebody else to myself yeah i wasn't i was satisfied with myself that's the problem

it's it's really honest it's a very honest way that you're going through life and and i really like how you answered like i like myself yeah i'm happy with my life. Same. But yeah, it's the same. And especially, like I said, for the last 15 years on every, most of the 90% of the competition, competition, we were coming at the quote favorites. And as someone, if we don't win gold medal, it will be like disaster from others. You know, people Nasi had that same pressure, right? Like high expectations coming in first place.

Was it awful for you too? Yeah. I mean, it's not something, like you have enough from yourself, you know? And so then when it becomes somebody else, then it becomes a little awful, I guess you could say. I can understand you exactly. Yeah.

Everybody expects from you. And especially when you exactly. Yeah. When everybody expects from you and... Yeah, but we learn to manage it, you know. And especially when you win once, then the next time. It's more like the next time. So coming in as already an Olympic gold medalist, now even more pressure, more expectation on you because you were already the best. You have to be the best again.

Yeah. You know, but it's like you feel that already yourself. You don't need everybody else to tell you that. Just tell you that. Yeah, yeah. But the funny thing is that we like, you right this is the first olympics these are fourth olympics the first one that we weren't the favorites coming in and people ask us oh is it now now easier and i i was honestly thinking no it's easier to be favorites because if you're favorites and you do your best you know we will

win it you know if you know your best so that's coming in yeah this competition uh we didn't know we were feeling good you know positive we felt if we do everything best we can fight for the gold medal but we weren't sure maybe we thought maybe if we do our best, maybe somebody, this competition, somebody will be better, you know? Was that the first time you felt this way? Like at an Olympics out of the floor? That was the first time?

Definitely. Every other time was different. But also what we were talking about the life, how we are satisfied with ourselves. That's the maybe the thing that can help people. We are not, we don't like pain it's just you are you're managing it but it's not that we like to give ourselves the pain only you need to suffer the pain sometimes in your life to have a better life and that's the

really reality of the life people don't want to that. But sometimes you need to be in the pain for your other part of the life. Let's say you have to feel the pain for two hours to have better 22 hours, or whatever it is, how much? Four hours, six hours. Or days, one day of pain and then more days. Or three days. So that's the reality of life. If you're doing the easy way, you won't be happy. This is the same emotionally. If you are holding back from being vulnerable or being honest in a loving relationship

and you don't give yourself to the other person because it's uncomfortable and you're talking about difficult things, the relationship suffers. So it happens in relationships. It happens in physical excellence. It also happens in relationships it happens in physical excellence it can it also happens in parenting and business the same thing it's like you're saying deal with the difficult yeah and then when you do that you can have a great life yeah yeah it's

beautiful we told we talk about that a lot when we are doing some motivational speeches, especially to some big company. We are saying to the people, look, a lot of people hate their work. But you have to accept that 99.8% of the people in the world have to work. So if you are accepting, if you try to find something good in it, you will enjoy it more and you'll have an easier life. Absolutely. But you need to accept it. Every person dreams about, I wouldn't have to go to work if I win the lottery.

But that's like a hundred people in the world. You need to accept it. It isn't good when somebody works and thinks about retirement for 10, 12 years or 20 years. That's all they can think about. Yeah, but you're not going to like it. And then come to the retirement, don't work anymore and don't know what to do. And then they're bored. Because they've always been thinking about later and not loving the now.

Yeah, yeah. Find something that you love. Yeah, definitely. I think that's why we are that amount of time, you because we love we really love what we're doing i always say that like it has you have to be passionate yeah whether it's a sport a job anything you know it has to come from within because how do you push through those hard times with the passion for you know the the end goal or whatever it is that your goal is. Um, I have a question about your relationship and being family. My dad was my coach, so I kind of understand, you know, the dynamic a little bit.

And he was an Olympic medalist as well. Yes. Yes. Yes. So something in the family. Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to ask you, do you, first of all, how much time do you spend together outside of training all the time? No, no. Okay. So you need your separate, we are, we are enough time. We are on the training together, like four or four or five hours a day.

So the, the, that's the funny thing. I think, first of all, I think it's really goes in my favor because we are brothers. It's easier with your brother to be that much of the time. But the funny thing is that somebody, when somebody tells me something, he thinks automatically, I will say to the valent and he will know, but it's not the case because we see each other every day.

And, you know, you don't talk that much because you know everything what is happening in their life. Outside of when you're training, you don't really talk too much about training, right? So you kind of keep the training to training. Yeah, for sure. I mean, after the training, we talk. Oh, right.

Then training with coach and then after. So like not at the dinner table ever. No, no. Get your mind off it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. What did your parents do to support both of you to fundamentally commit to being your very best, to creating a life that feels like a great life?

And this has nothing to do with medals. This is like, yeah, what did your parents do to help you live the good life? Yeah, funny thing is that our parents never do sports. Both of the parents, never. But they saw like some good things in sport that we can learn and then they pushed us to the sport and then we fell in love with the sport. Did they see your forearms?

Is that what they said? Look at it. Did you see his forearms? No, it's nothing. They saw your forearms and they said, we have a Popeye. He'll be a rower. No, I had really big legs. And always my father, he will be a football player.

Football or soccer? Soccer. Yeah, that's good. Oh, that is so good. Yeah, so there's not one or two things that, you know, that they said at the breakfast table or the dinner table. No, I think it is the lot of little things Professional yeah, I think that is the key, you know, maybe when you were saying that now there's the key

They didn't push us to be the top level outlets So what pushing us in the sport because they think, thought that it's a healthy lifestyle. That's it. Okay, but how did they push you? Like what, there's lots of ways to challenge people. Did, when you were performing- No, they were just be our support and trying to-

Encourage you to go. Convince us go to some sports. So while I trained soccer before, I trained, we trained gymnastic when we were, I was three years or four years old. We get a little too tall, yeah. I was four years old. We were a little too tall. Yeah, I was going to say, a little too tall. But it's a good foundation. Yeah. Yeah. And then we, I start to do water polo. You start to do soccer and there was all,

they were always trying to push us into some sport because they thought it would be a- Just for good health almost. Our father was always driving us to the sport, coming to the competitions. Support us. What would your father on the ride home, what would that conversation be like? Was it more supportive or was it more about the sport or something completely different?

I don't remember, to be honest. I think it was about sport. The reason I asked. Because he likes sport. He watches sport on television. He really likes it. Was it about about sport the reason i asked because he likes sport he watches sport on television he really likes it was it about your sport or just sport in general i mean we were younger about our sport yeah the reason i asked how was it you know like that things like that yeah most kids leave sport because of the car ride home it's too intense it's too overwhelming

the parents are overbearing they're too hard on the kids. And that's why. So your parents obviously found the right balance there. Definitely they found the right balance. I think I saw in the sport a lot of stories like you said. Yeah. When the parents push the kids. And they want it more.

Yeah. But I think the parents didn't achieve something what they want. And they're pushing the kids. And they want it more than the kids. Yeah, but I think the parents didn't achieve something what they want and they're pushing the kid. And even, I don't say that kid can be good in the sport, but I think kid like that

won't be happy. That's the main reason, you know. It can be good. Yeah. You can succeed. But not the good life. It won't be happy.

Yeah. That's the problem, you know. But they will maybe do it because of their parents. Right. And it's like, who wants it more? Yeah. They maybe don't like happy. Yeah. That's the problem. You know, when they will maybe do it because of their parents. Right. And it's like, who wants it more? Yeah.

They maybe don't like it, but. Exactly. But that can only go so far, you know, like then you become miserable. Yeah. And we are not happy. Yeah. Because your parent wants it more than you. Yeah.

It couldn't last for a while. Yeah, exactly. I think all we did in life, all we are doing in life, we are, we are trying to have a good life and to be happy. I like that. In the end, we are going to work to have more money and to be happy. So you need to have a good goal. Why are you trying to be the best? To be happy.

And if you are trying to be the best, just to be the best, for me, it's not a good reason. I like that. Trying to be the best to be happy. To be happy. Yeah. For me, that's my good reason. I like that. Trying to be the best to be happy. To be happy. Yeah. For me, that's my life philosophy. I like that. I do in life.

I'm doing it to have a good life and to be happy in the end. What goes into being a great teammate? You guys are really syncopated. You're very together. You guys are great teammates to each other. Yeah. If you could teach people what you know about being a great teammate, what would you say are the essence of being a great teammate?

I think the most important thing is to trust your teammate. That's the ultimate goal. Because I know I can trust him when things are going bad, like on this race. I know he will do it. He will do a little bit more than he can. And I think that's the most important and you can you see that on trainings you know training strengths and then you you feel

it and you you can trust your teammates you know same yeah to support each other no matter so when he's off his game, he's maybe showing up late to practice, he's out late. I don't know if this has ever happened to you, but he's not... Yeah, it is. And you're really on it. How do you support and challenge him?

What do you say to him to bring him up to the required standard? I think in our case, are really similar uh how we approach sport outside of the sport we are completely different person different persons but how how we you know practice and how we love sport and everything we are completely the same we love to train uh we love rowing you know uh we love to do more we like to do more you know and stuff like that and we don't need to support each other in that way because they show up for each other i think when we have a bad day you know you know and i know for my brother it's just one day to be better you know i just say to

him it'll be better don't worry that's great that sense, we don't need to support each other. You're both internally driven. Yeah. You don't really need the other person to help you get more. I know it's just one day and he will do his best next day. I got it. So that goes back to the trust, right? You trust that at the end of the day.

At the end of the day, it's just one bad day. Not just, yeah. It will be hard enough if you are going on the end of the day at the end of the day it's just one bad day not just yeah it will be hard enough if you are going on the start of the competition and that you are thinking will he give his best or not right that would be awful that that we started uh when we come to the top of the rowing we were in a quad you know with two other persons and uh when we were in a quad, we weren't sure when we were on a start. We weren't sure if we were going, if we will do good race or not good race. Because we didn't have that trust or full of us, you know.

So what would you say in that situation if you don't trust the other people, right? You're not sure how it's going to go. Oh, it was much more stressful. More stressful? I remember much more stressful. Much more stressful. Okay. I don't know.

What would I say? Nothing. Just hoping it will be better. So you just hope for the best? Yeah. I mean, we were young. We were young. And for the first two or three years, we didn't speak about it.

You know how we didn't have that person who spoke about it. Okay, we need to figure out how we'll race. Because one guy liked to race a little bit slower start and then push to the finish. Martin and I like to start really quick. And then, you know, and after a few years... So that's hard. We realized...

Teammates that just don't... We start more, he started lower, so... But we realized that just after two or three years together. Okay, something is not good. I'm going back to my brother. Forget these guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, last questions here is, I would love to hear your thoughts right before the event started.

So on the starting line, your thoughts when you're behind, the actual thoughts, okay? Like, I'm going to go get this thing. Or, uh-oh. And then the thoughts right when you're at the last 500. I'll be brutally honest with you. That's what on the start i will say it on the start my my biggest thought is i can't wait for this to end i can't wait yeah i don't concentrate on something i just thinking okay in six and a half minutes this is it so that's my biggest

thought on the start in life did you think think that every single Olympics or only this time? Yeah, mostly. Mostly. It does not sound optimal. I know. Yeah. Right. But it's true.

Yeah. I think most of the athletes feel it, but don't. I would have to agree. Like as much as you like, I like to train, I like to compete. But you walk in and like I would get almost sick. It's not a nice feeling. No, it's not a nice feeling to be so nervous. You just want it to be done. like, I like to train, I like to compete, but you walk in and I would get almost sick. It's not a nice feeling. No, it's not a nice feeling to be so nervous. You just want it to be done.

Yeah, I think. And at the end, you're like, oh, that was great. That was great. I can do it again. But before the race, I can honestly say like one and a half hour, two hours before the race, you're going through a lot of emotions, but not one of that emotions is good. Not one is happy.

They're hard. They're difficult emotions. But you need to, like I said, you need to go through that. It's two hours of tension. Pain and misery. Yeah, like you said, you want to throw up. But this is the mark of a champion that can deal with difficult emotions. You accept it.

You know you need to go through that. Yeah, you go through it, not around it. The good thing is that, yeah, I also feel like that, you know, that one hour before race it's, you know, you feel in the stomach, you want to throw up. It's a big race, you know. But every time I'm, you know, going to some competition, I'm excited. I like competitions. But that part.

That moment. Yeah, that moment I don't like. And what you asked about the race. When the race started and nothing goes our way, you know, we were fourth, fifth, I think. Fifth in the middle. First 500, we were fifth. And normally we started much more much quicker you know and and i i honestly thought we

we can't get metal from that you know that was the thought we were out of the metal yeah i was negative at that point but for you know a few seconds and then what did you do with it and then it's hard to explain uh during the race it's it's You are not in the reality, you know. You can't think like we're thinking now. And I'm talking, you are not straight. You are like in some casualty. Like flight or whatever it's called. We are doing autopilot.

In some you are like in some film and it's going slowly. And you can't see anything, you know. You are in some other state. Yeah, definitely. And then, you know, sometimes you're thinking negative feelings and then, okay, I will do my best. Push them out. Just something like that.

I will do my best. It just comes back to the core philosophy. Yeah, it's the same thing. I think that the thing what pushed us here, because we stick to our game plan. We stick to our part when it doesn't go our way. But I was thinking also, let's do our best no matter which place we are. Stick to the plan.

And I think that pushes us. Because if we're trying to do the bridge game and trying to push hard on the middle too much, it won't be that good. So, it comes to your best you're you know together your best versus the best i would say you guys are awesome i know this is this is really like a treat three champions three gold medals at the olympics multiple times and you're giving a master class on how it is to work from the inside out to be your very best stay positive when it is negative flip it around get back to the core philosophy do my best and be happy well done and thank you for nice words thank you it's hard for us to explain something in english you know no you did a great you did a great job yeah I think that's a good thing for us because all year didn't go our way.

But Valent and me talked whole year, we believed that we can do it. Yeah. And we always, with all the bad things, we always stay positive. Okay, we can do it.

Awesome. Thank you guys so much. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Yeah, I appreciate you guys. I really enjoyed that conversation. It was so good. It was.

Today's AI Insights are brought to you by NTT Data and Microsoft. NTT Data is transforming the workplace with Copilot for Microsoft 365. The games are flying by and so is this series. We've had so many incredible conversation with so many gems, so many insights, good old wisdom right at the core of the whole thing. And so at the end of this series, we're going to have co-pilots summarize the top highlights, the key takeaways and actionable insights from the game inside the games that you can apply to your own life. If you want to check that out, make sure you subscribe to our newsletter at

findingmastery.com forward slash newsletter. We've covered so much and it's going to be awesome to have all of our highlights from the series in one place. As always, it's great to be here in Paris and we will see you all tomorrow on the game inside the games.