Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Day 3 – Lindsey Vonn on Overcoming the Weight of Gold and Expectations | The Game Inside The Games

Episode Date: July 28, 2024

Do other people’s expectations make or break an athlete’s Olympic dream?On day 3 of The Game Inside The Games, Dr. Michael Gervais and Nastia Liukin sit down with one of the most decorated athletes in skiing history, Lindsey Vonn, to explore how expectations impact performance. Lindsey shares her journey as a world-class skier, discussing the mental and emotional challenges she faced throughout her career. She delves into how she used negativity and doubt from others as fuel for her success, the importance of control and precision in skiing, and her mindset during her most significant races. Lindsey also offers valuable advice for the next generation of athletes, emphasizing the power of resilience and self-belief.While Lindsey has her own unique lived experience, what she has to say can benefit all of us – don’t miss this opportunity to learn from one of the world’s best in this episode of The Game Inside The Games.This episode is brought to you by KPMG. With the KPMG value realization framework for Microsoft Copilot, KPMG professionals can help you identify the specific value of Copilot for Microsoft 365 and build a strategic roadmap for your business. Learn more at kpmg.com/microsoftcopilot. Click HERE to take our poll on expectations designed by Microsoft Copilot._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Day three from Paris. How do expectations impact an athlete's performance at the Olympics? Let's dive in. Welcome back or welcome to the game inside the games on Finding Mastery. I'm Dr. Michael Gervais by trade and training, a high performance psychologist. And I'm Nastia Lukin, Olympic gold medalist. And we are here in Paris. And in this special series, we unlock the psychology of pivotal, often unseen moments that can make or break an athlete's dream. What's it like to focus a lifetime of experience into one performance, a single moment? What goes on inside the minds of the brightest stars while the whole world is watching? Welcome back to Paris and let's dive into the game inside the games.

Do expectations make or break an athlete's Olympic dream? It's a great question. And today we are going to talk with Lindsey Vonn, one of the most decorated athletes in skiing history, to better understand how expectations impact Olympic performances. Lindsey, welcome to the game inside the games. And before we get started, I just want to take a moment here. You don't need an introduction, but a gold medal in the downhill in the 2010 Winter Olympics. Bronze medal in the Super G in the 2010 Olympics. Bronze medal in the downhill in the 2018 Olympics. 82 World Cup race victories and four overall World Cup titles.

That's a lot. Congratulations on a huge body of work. Thank you. And we're really excited to have you here. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Yeah, it's really nice. We're going to get right into your post yesterday.

So talk a little bit about that. I'm going to first read the caption because it really made me emotional kind of knowing the emotion that you had just based upon your caption without talking to you. But I've always wanted to hold an Olympic flame. And today I became a torch barrier for the first time with many of my fellow Olympians. The flame is so much more than a fire. It's a symbol of hope, which we desperately need right now. What does that mean to you? Like, can you further explain that a little bit more? Well, it was interesting. I mean, when we were kind of rehearsing for, um, the torch relay, we all went through and talked about what sport we were in and what it meant for

us to hold the torch. And it was so moving. I mean, it just, it was, you know, I don't know how many athletes it was, maybe 16 athletes, 10 athletes. And we were just talking about, you know, the emotional part of it. And when you retired, it's different, like it hits you harder. And the Olympics are what you grew up dreaming about. You know, it's not, you don't grow up dreaming about a World Cup race. You know, that's what you do for, you know, daily, on a daily basis. But the Olympics are something bigger and it represents something bigger. And, you know, unity doesn't mean that we all agree on everything. It means that we come together to do something. And so that's what I felt like we were doing. And it represents, like I said, so much more than just a flame. It's hope and unity and peace. And there's so much of that that we need in the world right

now that I just felt lucky to be a part of it. Yeah. Was gratitude a big part of how you approached competition and life in general? Yeah. Was that relatively new for you? No. So my mother had a stroke when she had me. And so she had a lot of physical disabilities because of it. And I had four siblings after that. So she was Wonder Woman, basically. But I always had the perspective that, you know, I was lucky to be in the position that I was. My mother would have loved to ski with me and to do all the things with me, but she couldn't. And so I felt I had a responsibility to her and to my family to always do my best. And I think also because my sport is

so dangerous because I crash often, I think you have to be able to bounce back. You know, you have to be resilient. You have to have that a better perspective. Otherwise, when you crash, you won't get back up again. So that's always been the way I thought about it. But I think especially since my mom passed away, it's just really reinvigorated that sense of urgency for me to live my life and to explore and to do and to be and to never have regrets. You know, I think having regrets are probably one of the worst things in life. And so if I fall trying my best, then so be it. But I'm never going to, you know, crumble under pressure because I got scared. Yeah. I feel very similar about like regret. You know, you'd rather try it. And

I don't really believe in the word fail. Like I feel like falling and like learning from that mistake. But I think within that, after you won a gold medal, there's obviously, I've experienced it. It's obviously a level of expectation and pressure that, in my opinion, at least for me, wasn't there before you won that gold medal. It kind of, the bar was raised higher, essentially. Did you feel that for you when you, like, raced again the next time? I felt the opposite. Really? I felt a huge sense of relief.

Because you've done it. Because I've done it once you're an Olympic champion you're always an Olympic champion no one can ever take that away from you and I felt like that is what I've been working for since I was a kid and I had achieved it my family had achieved it and now this is just the icing on the cake so I felt like so free afterwards you know I just I skied my best. I was a little bit emotionally drained and we raced the very next day after I won the gold. Um, so I,

I felt like I could have gotten better than a bronze. Um, but it just, that was what it was. It's what I had left in the tank. Um, but I didn't, nothing mattered. I'd won everything else up until that point. And that was just, that was, I'd won everything else up until that point. And that was just, that was. I'd won everything else up until that point. So going into the next Olympics or any competition after that, when they announced you as an Olympic gold medalist, you didn't feel any more pressure like that you put on yourself or from others? I put so much more pressure on myself than anyone could ever put on me. So it never changed in between? No. And you know, I think

I got hurt only a couple of years after I won. And I think the expectation there totally changed everything because all I wanted to do was get back out there. But no but no, I, I, I didn't feel any, any more pressure. I mean, I had leading up to Salt Lake or, uh, Vancouver, it was crazy. I was on the cover of magazines and I injured myself two weeks before I hadn't skied the world. We're saying I was going to be Michael Phelps and win five gold medals when I hadn't won, you know, in all five disciplines that year. Like it was a, it was crazy expectations. And so, you know, once I got one, it was just, this is all I needed to do. You know, this is amazing. So let's stay on that just for a moment. Cause the word relief indicates that there was an anxiety prior to it. So you're relieved when you're coming from

an anxious state. So was part of your operating system, you talked about gratitude. How much anxiety was underneath the surface for you? And if I'm on the right path for you, how did you work with that anxiety? And then we'll dovetail it to the expectations piece. I mean, I've had anxiety about racing since I was a kid. Performance anxiety, general anxiety, really intense, like nearly panic anxiety. Like how would you cap those?

I'm not really, when I was younger, I wasn't great socially. So I definitely had anxiety that I didn't fit in because I was never in school long enough to make friends. And I was never, you know, like I was always competing in scrolls that were three, four, five years older than me. So I didn't fit in there either.

I was always in this like middle ground state. So skiing was the only place I felt like I fit in. So I loved skiing. But, you know, my like my first major international race when I was 12, my dad said, well, you know, every girl that's ever won this race has gone on to win the overall title. I was like, oh, okay. It's amazing what one sentence can do for life. And that's why I always tell parents, be very careful what you tell your children. Because they will hang on to it for the rest of your life.

Yeah, literally. He's told you a lot of things. There's a lot. What would you have said? If you could rewind that clock and have that opportunity, or actually, if you could fast forward the clock and have that opportunity, what would you say to one of your kids? I would say, just try your best. Your best is enough. That's your best is enough. It doesn't matter what place you get your best is enough, but I would have said, you know, you can win, but just try your best. It doesn't matter.

That's all there is. And that would have created what for you i think i will say i've learned so much in that moment because that is the race that i figured out how to control my nerves tell us more so i was second after the first run and my you know it's my dad my grandpa with that extra like that extra little pressure that dad told me the night before. Right. So, and you still performed with. I still won. Yeah. Okay. So I was second after the first run. Okay. It was really, it was snowing. It was terrible conditions. I was in the starting gate and I was so nervous. You know, I was just so tense. I was 12 years old, freaking out. And the anxiety is in your body or it's up in your head? It's both. It's both. Because whatever happens in my mind comes down to my body and my

legs get tight and i kind of need my legs so it's like you know but i just kept saying i keep taking deep breaths and i kept saying you can do this you can do this you can do this and i just tried to use breathing i didn't no one pulled me or taught me what to do i know i was like i mean i my dad was my coach so he kind of did but also yes i mean but also like you don't really know what to do because you're like out there by yourself yeah someone like no one's on the beam with you no one's on the same can you imagine like how much better we're we're training our athletes now we're teaching and breathing we're teaching our meditation and mindfulness and self-talk you guys are so lucky i know so lucky right but then it's like also

the more you know is it you, I like put myself in that. And I think with the techniques that would have been super helpful. But then now with social media and like the more you know about other people's, like the competition, maybe like that also could play in the mental side. Right. I think it's still ultimately comes down to how do you control yourself and your emotions and no matter how much information there is you still have to figure that out i think it's easier to get to that point

because there are different techniques and methods in which they can learn how to do that but i think there's also a lot of distraction and there's a lot of that's your point you know it's okay and i like the support at the same time, sunshine doesn't get you through the bad days. Well, it's the good and the bad. It's like if over-hyping and over-stimulating on the positive side. That can be bad too. Yes, absolutely. It can be bad too.

So what practices did you come to learn or develop to be more present, to find that ideal state that you're looking for? I internalized all the bad things that happened to me. I was like, this is, you know, this is probably a great, you can be my psychologist of the day. It just went dark. Yeah, it just went dark. No, but like, you know, I've had a lot of people over the course of my career tell me that I wouldn't amount to anything, that I wasn't good enough, that wouldn't be that once I won I wouldn't win again you know it's happened my entire career so every time someone said something to me I just I just put it in the memory bank and when I got to the start I I use those emotions to help me did you

use it to help become more intense yeah so it so there's this fine line between intensity and anger and you I think you guys will resonate with this. If you could go into a starting gate or the starting position, anxious, angry, or poised, we'd all pick poised, right? Like that, I'm fully here. She's like, no. Yeah. Okay, so you wouldn't.

You want more aggression. I would pick mostly poised, but anger, like not – It's not anger. You're not doing it to prove people wrong, but it's definitely a motivating factor a little bit. I think this is the gymnastics to use your, like the mental gymnastics is to use whatever you use, sift it down. So it's not burning you. Like the anger can burn you.

It can get out of control. Controlling the percentages of each. Yeah. And then if you can focus it to be more intense like i'm here right now and i'm going to bring it yeah that type of mental gymnastics to get to that state is that what you were able to do it's it's a little bit of anger but it's it's helping you get the intensity and the presence yeah that's important and sometimes anger fuels that a little bit yeah but i mean you know skiing it it's very similar like the

precision of what you have to have but i think with skiing you have to be more aggressive oh and and so you you need like that anger helped me i mean i i think my olympic run and in vancouver was probably the most present i've ever been for a race in my life. It was most on the limit run I've ever had. And it was the best run I've ever had. And did you start with that anger slash intensity? Yeah. Oh, yeah. So you were able to get to that place and then still find that openness to put it on edge.

Yeah. But I mean, it wasn't openness. Like it was control. There you go. Precision. Precision. Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool. Chip on your shoulder?

Always, yeah. Yeah, okay. I see that for sure. Love to win or hate to lose. I'm a hate to lose. Yeah. One last question. Your best piece of advice to your younger self.

If you could go back and tell that little Lindsay. I know. I get asked this a lot, but I wouldn't tell myself anything. I have to learn. You have to learn the hard way. I need to fall to get back up and figure out how to not fall again, which I still fell again, but you know, it's awesome. I want to learn. Yeah.

That's how I learned. I like that. Thank you for coming in. Thank you for sharing your insights on expectations and how you work with pressure. There's so much that you have to offer the next generation of athletes that are trying to figure it out right now. You two are legends and I'm honored to sit with you both. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you. That was really fun. It was, I don't think I've ever had a conversation with Lindsay like that. So it was really cool.

And did you guys know each other? Yeah. We've known each other for years, but never, you know, talking on that level is very different. And it was, it was really cool. You get to know the person, I think a lot more. You know, what I appreciated is that she was very clear about kind of her model. So one, it was gratitude and two, the anxiety that sits underneath. And that's a very agitating, difficult state to live in for an extended period of time. And anyone who has clinical anxiety or struggles with anxiety knows exactly what I'm talking about.

But when you are facilitating or using that to be your very best, it's really hard to do. It costs a lot of energy. There's a required recovery involved. And then she also had a chip on her shoulder. Did you have a chip on your shoulder when you competed or was it very different for you? A little bit, I guess, but I think I wanted it so badly. I wanted to be like my parents and they won world championships and Olympic games and people would start putting the pressure on me to live up to their expectation expectations but i saw that as

noise i wanted to do it more than they expected it of me so it's like a so there's expectations yeah expectations can go a lot of ways yours was like look i want this i want to be like those expectations are i want to be like them but i want it for me. Yes. And you were using that to drive hers. There was a whole different mechanism involved. And so I love the part of gratitude. And that's a practice. We're not born grateful. And so one of the very simple ways to do that is it's a research out of University of Pennsylvania

where they found that people that would put their gaze on things that are good. And the research that, you know, it's, it's dubbed three good things. It's a simple little practice. And what they found is people that would identify and log just three things throughout the day that are amazing, that are wonderful in small ways or big ways. For example, somebody holds the door open for you and makes eye contact. And then you would say, this is one of those nice things. This is one of those nice things. This is one of those quote unquote good things.

And you write it down at the end of the day and you just log it. What the thing was and the emotion that came with it, that that has been found to increase optimism and hope and gratitude and a whole host of really facilitative mindsets. And so that's one simple way that I think all of us can think about being just a little bit more grateful. And I love the clarity that she had on the anxiety. And I actually really enjoyed watching you two connect like, yup, yup. Oh, that's different for me. Well, in our sports, we're both on the events or the slopes by ourselves. So there's a team behind you getting you there, but when the green lights on or the flag goes up, it's just us. So for her, she needs that anger that she talked about.

Whereas I'm on a four inch wide balance beam. It can't really have that much anger. You have to be very calm. Yeah. Way less noise. Yeah, exactly. Okay. That was awesome. I really enjoyed that. Thank you. Yeah, that was great. All right. now it's time for our AI Insights brought to you today by KPMG and Microsoft. Unlock the value of Copilot for Microsoft 365 with KPMG. We want to hear our viewers' perspectives on expectations. Hey, Copilot. Design a LinkedIn post for our audience with a poll asking whether they see expectations as a motivator or constrictor of great performance and create a caption for the post referencing

this episode. You got it, Nastia. Here's your LinkedIn post with a poll asking your audience about their perspective on expectations and a caption linking back to this episode. It's ready to post. Wow. That's kind of cool. That's amazing. Nice job, Copilot. And if you want to take the poll, we'll include the link in the show notes, or you can head to Finding Mastery on LinkedIn. And if you want to check out Copilot's takeaways from every episode, you can check those out on our website at findingmastery.com slash the games. Thanks Thanks Mike. We'll see you all tomorrow from Paris on the game inside the games. I'm not very athletic.

So I said the same thing. We should do another episode. No. And it also doesn't translate into anything. If you're a soccer player, like you can run fast, you can jump, you can like do all these things like, what are you doing?