Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Day 9 - Alev Kelter: The Heartbeat Behind Team USA's Stunning Rugby Victory | The Game Inside the Games

Episode Date: August 3, 2024

Rejection, resilience, and unexpected glory: a tale that proves it's never too late to rewrite your story.On Day 9 of The Game Inside The Games, Nastia Liukin and Dr. Michael Gervais sit down with Alev Kelter, a remarkable athlete who not only just won the first medal in USA Women’s Rugby history, but has represented the U.S. in three different sports.Alev shares her journey from facing the heartbreak of being cut from the U.S. Ice Hockey team to discovering a new passion in rugby, competing in three consecutive Olympic games, and ultimately winning The United States’ first ever women’s rugby medal, in one of the most electric finishes in Paris so far.In this conversation, you’ll hear a behind-the-scenes perspective on pivotal moments, the power of a culture built by its players, and a play-by-play the stunning finish in the weening seconds of the bronze medal match. Alev is a treasure trove of insights – she beautifully highlights the resilience required to overcome setbacks, the courage to pursue new opportunities in the face of adversity, and the ability to use sport as a canvas for self-expression. This episode is brought to you by Accenture, Avanade, and Microsoft.Accenture and Avanade are reimagining the workplace with Copilot for Microsoft 365._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Day nine from Paris, we take a look inside one of the most iconic moments of the game so far. Welcome back, or welcome to The Game Inside the Games on Finding Mastery. I'm Dr. Michael Gervais, by trade and training, a high-performance psychologist. And I'm Nastia Lukin, Olympic gold medalist. And we are here in Paris, and in this special series, we unlock the psychology of pivotal, often unseen moments that can make or break an athlete's dream. What's it like to focus a lifetime of experience into one performance, a single moment? What goes on inside the minds of the brightest stars while the whole world is watching?

Welcome back to Paris, and let's dive into The Game Inside the Games. Welcome back to Paris and The Game Inside the Games, presented by Microsoft Co-Pilot. Today, we have Alev Kelter joining us. Alev, it is so great to have you here. Three-time Olympian, and you've represented the United States in three different sports, ice hockey, soccer, and now rugby. Congratulations on a radical body of work.

I mean, that is incredible. Incredible. Just to hear all the sports, that is incredible. Incredible. Just to hear all the sports, I'm like, okay, here we are being underachievers over here with one. So walk us through just for a moment what it was like to settle into rugby. So you played ice hockey, soccer, and now rugby. Yeah, I grew up in Alaska and we played different, like seven different sports.

And by the time I was in high school, it was really important to specialize. And a lot of people said you had to play one. And I was very passionate about ice hockey and soccer. And I said, can I keep going? And it was a dream to play both Division I in college. And that's how I started to look for the schools that I wanted to go to. There's one of the sports kind of like help each other

or was it just completely different mindsets? And I mean, I guess similar skill set, maybe perhaps for both, but they both complement each other so well. And in Alaska, it's a winter sport and then a summer sport. And so it was when I'm not playing ice hockey and there's snow on the ground, I'm playing soccer. And every time, and that's how I knew I needed to play both because when I was playing soccer, I missed hockey. And when I was playing soccer, I missed hockey. And when I was playing hockey, I was like, oh, I can't wait to, for the, maybe it was just, I wanted summer to come. I associated that with always playing sports.

So yeah. When you think about the physical side and the mental side, obviously there's a drive or a motivation or a commitment to play, to move. And does it, does sport feel like it just fits for you? Or is this something you had to contour into because you just loved how it feels? No, I think that's a beautiful question because for me, I always grew up loving art.

And I think sport is a performance art. And I think that when you learn how to draw, you learn different perspectives and you have a horizon line and everything goes from that horizon line. And you have a three point, two point perspective, and then you can start to bring things 3D. And I really think sport creates a beautiful canvas for everybody to find their medium, to express themselves.

And I think that's what artists do. Oh, very cool. I've never heard it in that way. And it's like, it's, it's so true. You know, I think just like seeing a blank slate can be sometimes scary or daunting, but once you start, it's like this beautiful journey that we've now seen you get to live. Do you feel like gold medal, multiple medals, do you feel like, um, sport was an art for you as well? Or because I know you were so analytical and, and there was a, I haven't heard you talk about it. Is that something that, well, I've never heard it that way. And I love that because I think like, yeah,

painting a picture essentially is like an overused kind of phrase, but I think that, yeah, I think I was a little more like too, almost trying to be too perfect. Whereas an artist, you know, you can, you don't have to necessarily be perfect when you try to be too perfect. It can not really turn into the best thing, but I think, um, yeah, I don't, I I've never like heard it. Well, if you think about like, but you think about different types of artwork, you have like pointillism, which is like very detailed art that makes this beautiful thing and that's kind of my interpretation of your yeah your your discipline is you know and then you have like the expressionistic you have the cubist you i mean you can fit anything into it right so i mean also we're in the heart of it here in paris so it's

just like no no it's been so inspirational yeah it's so beautiful i've just never heard it and it's like i i love that at what point did you feel like sport became artistic for you? At what point did you need to have certain level of competency or command of how your body moves in space? I guess when I was younger, I was really religious. And I remember at 12, I was like, okay, I have a God-given talent to play athletics and to be, it didn't have to work at it. Like academics, like I have a twin sister and she was, you know, very academic and we were together, the superhuman. And so we really helped each other in the spots that we needed to help. But I think that that, when I was 12, I was like, okay, I have a gift. I want to use this gift. I

want to give it away. And, and I think by spiritually that's helped. And that has since transitioned to just being, you know, you know, this is a part of who I am and how can I bring this to every day and, and give back. The idea that you have a gift and you wanted to give it away. Where did that come from? You know, I, I can't exactly remember the moment, but I do remember, um, when my mother was raising us, you know, she really instilled in us like this belief that we can be anything and to have self-confidence. And then there was also that you were this dynamic student and then an athlete. And I think part of that was you give your gift and then you also get back what you give. And if you work hard in school, you get to play. And so for me, when I was in college, I realized if I gave of myself that

I wasn't, you know, I think again, it was like the very religious part of it was, you know, give of yourself and then you're going to get twofold in return. And I think again, it was like the very religious part of it was, you know, give of yourself and then you're going to get twofold in return. And I think that had a lot to do with like my faith growing up. Okay. So mom said you can be anything and she instilled that idea. She's the biggest cheerleader. Yeah. And did you have that same seed that was watered from a young age? Yeah think and i think it was more so for me because both my parents were gymnasts you know they didn't really want me to do gymnastics they wanted me to do something that i loved and so luckily or unluckily for them it was gymnastics

and it was if you want to do this please have at it like we'll be here to help you and guide you but it has to come from within you know it has to be something that you love yeah and i think that's passion and i think absolutely date back passion to my grandma um and she came over from america from turkey and she was supposed to be you know fixed marriages were very you know appropriate in turkey at that time and she went to america because she was in love and she followed love and she followed her passion and i think that's where the the strength of the woman like then she went and to london school of economics she got educated you know and and so that's where my mom gets her belief in herself saying you can be anything you want if you follow your passion is so i i don't want to lose the thread on how mom did that i do want to understand that but i want to follow this idea that you're connected to

your heritage. There's a lineage that you're, that is something that comes forward in rugby more than maybe any other sport. Is that an influence from rugby or is that an influence from your family? I would say probably from my family. And I was, you know, rugby found me. And so for me, it was like, I was asked by the Olympic coach to come try rugby because of my athletic abilities. We can take an athlete and teach them rugby. And this was the era of the crossover athlete.

And so I think they believed in me. They saw, the coach had a vision of what these skillsets could bring. And do you think that like a coach believing in you, like made you believe in yourself more? I had never touched a rugby ball before. And he's like, come out. We have plenty in California.

So I was like, all right, I'm freezing in Alaska. I would love a trip to California. Who wouldn't? Yeah. So you were up for it, like you were up to try it. And that was like shortly after I had been released from the Olympic ice hockey team. And so the worst they could say is no. Right. And I had to overcome that.

And so this next bit was. Was that a thing? It was. Being released? Yeah. Yeah. So. At that point I had, you know, been kind of the superstar and everything and maybe no,

no real roadblocks that I had come up against. And how old were you at that point? I was 18. So 18, you met your first heartbreak? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like identity heartbreak at that point? I was 18. So 18, you met your first heartbreak? Yeah. Yeah. Like an identity heartbreak at that point. Yeah, fully depressed, like in a way that I had failed everyone.

Yeah. Oh, so this is the double-edged sword of heritage and lineage that you have a whole life. Yes, that I was representing them. And now my mom taking me to practice at 4 a.m. It's just on a cycle of how much hockey is expensive. And it's like, how could i let that slip that's much into it and you kind of a lot of shame yeah too yeah so and how'd you work through that well i remember snowboarding in alaska i was finally released from the well not released from the wisconsin athletics but

you know you sign your life away saying you're not going to get injured and so i'm on this mountain and i remember wanting to snowboard it with the band and like just hit every jump it's fresh powder and i tried this backflip and i was alone and it's not i don't usually snowboard alone but i had to like recoup in alaska and um do this on my own and i remember not landing that backflip and being face first in the snow and being like i can just stay here it was It was pretty, and I could, and nobody in my mind, what was telling me was that nobody would care. Nobody would notice. And, and I, and I had this epiphany at this moment, like I'm a twin and I was like, Daria would have landed that back flip. She would have been down the, you know, back at

the lodge, up the gondola, you know, and, and that I had a sense of, I can't leave her. I can't, I need, I, I, I have a responsibility to be her twin and to not leave her. And that kickstarted into this moment of, this kickstarted into this moment of, um, she always says, you know, to someone, you know, your twin, like your twin like who who's older and she's older of course I'd always feel less than in that conversation and so I realized that moment I'm no less of a human because I came out second and I'm no less of a human because that no happened that I didn't make that Olympic team and so yeah I got up slightly cold and went down to the lodge and the rest was history.

So what's happening here? I don't know. It's just like I feel like we've all maybe have, you know, felt that in a way and just like to hear you, I mean, land on my face, not in the snow, but like face first. And, yeah, it's just like a moment of realness, you know? And I think like seeing you and your teammates, um, this week, you know, celebrate such like an iconic moment, um, in, in the Olympic movement was, was incredible, but it's like those moments that,

you know, I didn't know about, we all don't know about, but we all, I always say like literally fall on your face or figuratively and it's, yeah. And so it's, it's just, thank you for sharing that. And thank you. You know, I think that, yeah, I think, you know, as Olympic athletes, you know, rightfully so, um, are put on a pedestal and, you know, our heroes and again, rightfully so, but I think it's the moments like that you just shared that are just so important, um, because it's the relatability of it all of, you know, not, not everybody is going to be on a pedestal literally or figuratively and, you know, have an Olympic medal and then equally, you know,

just proud of you and your teammates. But I think it's the other moments that just, you know, are the ones that will somebody hopefully watching maybe feeling that same way, you know, will be inspired by you and your story. So thank you for sharing that. Yeah, nobody that I know that has really gone for it in life hasn't had the shadow side to be part of their life as well. And the incredible courage to do that

is what I want to celebrate right like to go for it means you really go for it in a lot of different ways not just tackling or whatever it might be that your sport requires purpose is what moved you through that moment 100 so the purpose to be a great sister yeah yeah the purpose to be part of a community. And can you translate how purpose has showed up for your rugby team as well and how you've, how either the, the, the team and or yourself have carried purpose into the Paris games? I mean, I remember after that moment, getting an opportunity to, to go try out rugby for the first time. And I was so surprised, but I was, I was greeted with the biggest open arms you can imagine. And at the, there was an innocence of competition. Like I

love you genuinely for who you are and I want you to learn rugby. And I didn't experience that at the highest level of soccer. And I didn't experience at the highest level of hockey. And for me, it was like, these women were so empowering. They're like, I wanna teach you everything. And they did. They did, they taught me everything, knowing that I might take a spot on that Olympic roster. And that to me was selfless. That to me was like,

those are the people I wanna hang around. And that's what I wanted. You know, it was the openness to being heartbroken and then the willingness to be loved into that community that brought me to rugby and that kept me there. So we talk a lot about that, you know, in gymnastics, it's such an individual sport, but also a team sport, but you just kind of mentioned, you know, the willingness for somebody, somebody to help you help you and possibly take that spot. Like, how were you able to navigate that?

And vice versa, I think, for them of knowing, because that's what I tried to convince them, that we truly do want the best for each other. And we're competing against each other. And yet it's so hard to sometimes navigate that of, you know, supporting somebody that technically you're trying to get you know a spot and it might knock somebody else out but that's in in life as well it happens and i think that was a testament to our leadership our coach was a lover and he you know he was a former cfl football player um turned rugby coach and he knew he's you know for me he said you know i know you're a hockey player. You might have a loose screw. You're going to be perfect at rugby.

But he was out there with his camera shooting practice because he wanted to remember these things. And, you know, he's since passed, he had a brain aneurysm. And but, you know, this this whole his legacy lives on. And it was this is bigger than you. And you will help each other because again it's this gift idea you have a gift you're going to give it away and this team is going to be blessed by it my god this is great coaching in so many ways right um when you think you your team has a phrase hi women yes can Can you talk about that?

Yeah, absolutely. So we needed to change the culture. So that was the first time I entered rugby. And then the Olympics happened. We've had two cycles. And we've lost sight of kind of the ethos of the game, which is integrity and inclusion. And so we wanted to really redefine ourselves. And we knew that there were some things lacking culturally.

And so we were going to redefine ourselves. And so we picked this song. It's called High Women. And it's about all the women that have come before us that maybe have not been recognized. And we broke down the song as a team. And we presented the high women that inspire us. And so we in turn acknowledged that we're role models, we're high women, and we know each other's high women. What makes you tick? What's your why? You know, those things were diligently,

you know, slid into our meetings and. The song slid in? The high women inspirations. Yeah. We presented it to one another. So wait, I want to be concrete. You presented to your teammates who your high women are. So we broke down the song and we're like, yeah, we can totally relate. This is the, you know, the women who, in the song, and I would love for you to go back and listen to it, but it talks about, you know, you know, doctors and women who in times that were just never recognized.

And then it also talks about what's the legacy that we're going to leave and how we're going to leave the Jersey better than it. So we, you know, took it upon ourselves to say like, this song resonates with us. We want to be this. And then we want to inspire others and be high women for other people. And when we need to come back to when we're not doing well, we'll come back to, I know you, I know you're high woman and I know what makes you go. It's right.

Yeah. And how many, how many women are in the total squad? So there's 23, 23 that trained with us full time in this residency. 12 came to reserves. It was just tough you know that's a tough go um for some um great for you but um you don't get there without the other

absolutely 12 and then the or i guess it's yeah is it 10 without the other 10 so the idea that most people watch rugby and see strong, fast, powerful women tackling and holding and grabbing and whatever. And to understand this part, the emotional and psychological and relational part is at the core and the foundation of going out and doing something incredibly demanding, physically demanding. It's really cool. And then you've also mentioned that your team has five values that you work from.

Part of that came from the inspiration of we need something to fall back on and hold each other accountable because that was a lot of, you know, finger pointing sometimes previously. And so we said to take accountability, we want to have, make sure that we can all come back to these five values. And that was agreed upon by the whole all come back to these five values and that was agreed upon by the whole team as we chose these five values and so we can really buy into this um yeah and versus like form into it because you believe you know you've been on teams where people are like you will believe this and you will do that and right this is the coach's way and i think the autonomy of having we rugby's so inclusive we need every shape and size every walk of life plays rugby and we come

from so many different backgrounds so how can we unite on a taking like a little bit of everybody and truly believing participating yeah so the the the players came up with the five values or the coach said these are the players but we we sat down and had many meetings on like what many words many many many beautiful moments it's hard to get people on the same page and that many this is hours yeah that many people right with the turnover rate of rugby at that time was every you had three month not even three month contracts so you're getting people into the fold you're trying to agree on something so this is the central group that was like hey we need something that we can teach. We can say this is us and buy into it and say, this is our way. So their love, resilience, selflessness, work ethic, and courage.

How did selflessness show up in this tournament for you? Yeah, it's, um, it gives me chills thinking about it, but you know, we have rugby it's, uh, it's in the rugby sevens is different type, um, of rugby than the traditional 15 against 15, um, 15s aside is, is two 40 minute halves and sevens is you guessed it seven to seven minute halves. Um, and it's on a full size rugby pitch. Um, so there's a lot of open space. There's a lot of, um, ability to be evasive and you need to play different positions. So in, in rugby fifteens, um, you have a set specific, uh, you know, play, or you have a role in sevens, you have to play a lot of different roles. so um in that bronze medal game um alona mar um said to me you know you've played center you know the center role then she asked me to pull

out of the proposition go into center and she said do your thing do your thing and so for me that is a selfless act of of saying you know let's do what the team needs at this moment. And, you know, shortly after. She gave you her position. Yes. And asked me to kind of, you know, step into that role to get the points on the board for our team. Yeah. Okay.

Why did she do that? I think for me, there's an acknowledgement that I've had 10 years of history in that position. Yeah. And, you know, like I said, you're playing every position. You need to do everything. And so it could also be, you know, there's a moment where, you know, she's also a very strong player. And so in that moment, she was more confident in the propping position. We have a strong platform.

Is a prop when you gather? Yeah, when you're in the scrum, you're propping up your hookers. That's what you're called. Her strength is to draw two players in and then give the ball and find the open space. That's usually when you have a lot of field. We were close to the try line. And my super strength strength is evasiveness beating people one-on-one having that conversation that confrontation and that's more of a center and that's at that moment we were close and we needed that 1v1 very cool so she had the larger picture she understand she understood what you

were great at even though you hadn't shown it and that comes back to she knew also what inspires me what's our why like right those things so did you light up when she said that i was i was like i'm trying to keep my you know yeah myself together but i was like yes you know like and play it out how did it work out how did that play or sequence of plays work yeah so the scrum half um we had a great strong scrum platform scrum half gave it to me um i had two defenders i stiff armed one defender um did a little sidestep and then scored the try about five feet from the sticks so and then rugby you kick from where you score so i'm also the kicker was able to score those two points so it's seven seven seven so to tie the game in which game was this this is our bronze medal game okay so um let's go i'm not sure anyone would have missed the last 10 seconds of your game i think it's it's gone viral rightfully so let's go to the last 10 seconds of the game set the entire

scenario up and walk us through where you were what what happened, and what that was like. So we were playing Australia, who was number one in the tournament going into this Olympics. Okay, so hold on. Let's just start. I'm going to interrupt you here for a few times to pull on it. I've been part of two bronze medal moments. This is the hardest game at the Games. I would agree.

Right? I would agree. You've just been gutted. Yeah. You just lost a match. Both teams have. And so... I was going to say, because in gymnastics, we don't have, you know, pull-up. Pull-up. Yeah. So kind of explain why is it the hardest? Yeah. Go ahead.

Okay. So in your quarterfinal game, you have to... so we won the quarterfinal game against GB, and then you. Great Britain. Yes, and then you lose your semifinal, and that's the highest you can play is now for third. If you win semis, you can go into the final. And you're guaranteed a medal. You're guaranteed a medal. So you have that moment already celebrated.

And, you know, this is like you're packing up your podium gear you know this you're packing up your podium gear and you're like gosh darn it i can't wait i need i want to wear this you know what i mean and so you're packing up and you're like it's like if you have any superstition you're like oh that's awkward like strapping that thing on to your shoulder and so all of these all of these are hanging in our lockers which is new for us because right never we never ever made it past the quarterfinals, this team. USA Rugby has never made it past this moment. So it's already a historic moment. Now we're like, okay, don't, for lack of a better word, don't f this up.

And now we're, you know, we're losing by five points at this point. And we tactically put all of our speedsters in and took out, you know, our kickers. And Spiff Cedric gets a pass from Ariana Ramsey. And she shimmy shakes three people and goes to score with six seconds left in the game under the sticks. And she scores. And she scores the try, which is five points. Five points. So now we're tied. We're tied.

You're tied at this point. We're tied. And now everyone on the sideline is where I was at. Why is Alev not in there? Why is our kicker not in there? And everyone is looking like, you know, Elena Olsen's off. Alev Guelter's off. you know, Kayla Knet's off. Okay, we have Lauren Doyle, we have Christy Kirschy who played soccer,

so we know she can kick, but the rugby ball, you have to bounce it and then kick it. So it's a very specific type of skill. And Spiff turns around and drops her own drop kick and scores the conversions under the sticks for us to win by two. So is, is she like a bring it to me? I like,

I've got, I've got it. Like then she'll tell you, she'd be the first to tell you she's, you know, we are the one that's hyping her. Like she has, she it's one thing that she knows is that,

you know, confidence is something that she can work on. And, and, and we are, we are her rock. And so, but when she came into the locker room, she's like, guys, I visualized taking that kick. I visualized doing it.

And we're like, and honestly, we were like, Spiff, Spiff, like you, she's one of our fastest players. This was after the game? After the game. She's one of our fastest players. We know she can score into the stick. She does it a lot. And to break free from tackles, she's evasive. She's one of our fastest players. This was after the game? After the game. She's one of our fastest players. We know she can score into the stick. She does it a lot. And to break free from tackles, she's evasive.

She's very slippery. And so we knew that was something. But then for her to turn around and take that kick when time is ticking down. Yeah, to do it like without the time. Yeah, and of course I'm like, you're too close. You're too close. You're too close. Okay, take a step back.

You know, but it's a visualizing aspect to it is like, I still believe in that. Yeah. Who knew that in our, and we're like, thank you. Yeah. Finally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you for, for what? Thank you for stepping up to the occasion. Thank you for believing in yourself in that moment. And thank you for doing all the, the, the private quiet alone work. Yes. That she has done. Yeah. Like that is what goes into being a great teammate is all the work you do so you can show up well for others when it's hard to show up for them.

When there's some sort of demanding the environment or you're flooded with emotions that you can fall back on your psychological, emotional, technical, tactical capabilities to to deliver. Yes. And so she did the lonely work the alone work yeah and we talk a lot about you know we don't those emotions are gonna the doubt's gonna come it's gonna come and you can't really you know you have it's the action that you need to take and so that was cool that every single person took that right action that game i want to come full circle go back to mom for just a moment this idea if you could speak to the parent that's watching or listening, what would you hope a parent could say that borrowing what your mom said multiple times, you know, I'm not sure the exact phrases or how she did it, but this idea that you can be anything,

this idea that there's so much inside of you. How would you speak to the parent? I would say, you know, life is full of many opportunities and let them explore. And to not be afraid of them taking risks. Because I think there's a lot of things we try to control. And that's out of your control. And so just let them explore.

Let them take risks. Let them fail. Because every, you know, obstacle leads to an opportunity. Amazing. You're, you have a way about you that is grounded and open. There's a strength and a nimbleness and a flexibility just to even be in this conversation and to go to places that are honest and real and emotional. And it's evident. I wasn't expecting to cry this morning so gosh you never know how this goes no it's like truly inspiring and you know it yeah it's just thank you yeah we're honored to be able to are you kidding me i'm i'm saying no no this is great so thank you for coming on the game inside the games. We're honored to have you. And what a great conversation.

Thanks for telling our story. Yeah. No, congratulations on the medal, but also congratulations. One last thing. You have some exciting news to share too. Not just the medal. Yes. Yes.

So yesterday I also proposed to my girlfriend. Congratulations. Thank you so much. Hoping, hoping it all went well. No, definitely. She said yes. We're in. That's awesome. Well, what an exciting week for you here. Thank you. Huge congratulations. Yeah. Well, definitely she said yes. We're in. That's awesome.

Well, what an exciting week for you here. Huge congratulations. Yeah. Appreciate you. Before we go, we want to talk about

our partners. Our AI insights today are brought to you by Accenture, Avanade, and Microsoft. Accenture and Avanade are

reimagining the workplace with Copilot for Microsoft 365. Hey, Copilot, can you find any examples of athletes who represented the U.S. in three different sports? Sure, Nastia. Here are a couple examples. Jim Thorpe played professional baseball, football, and won gold medals in track and field.

Bay Didrikson Zaharias was a professional golfer, basketball player, and won two golds and a silver in track and field that is impressive i mean what a love has done to be in that company what a legend absolutely that's for sure thanks mike and we will see all of you here tomorrow from paris on the game inside the games