Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Desmond Howard: “It’s All About the Process!” - Strategies for Success from a Super Bowl MVP

Episode Date: September 11, 2024

Kids who grow up playing American football dream of doing a few things: winning the Heisman Trophy; being a top NFL draft pick; winning a Super Bowl, and… in their wildest dreams… perhaps even winning a Super Bowl MVP.Our guest today is one of the rare few who made all of those dreams a reality – Desmond Howard. Desmond’s career is a highlight reel of jaw-dropping plays at the University of Michigan and in the NFL—a journey that’s left an indelible mark on the sport. And now, he is a prolific broadcaster for ESPN College GameDay – making him not just an athlete but a true icon in the world of sports. What's equally remarkable, if not more so, are the strategies that have fueled his success. Desmond’s approach to life—marked by meditation, a positive mindset, deep humility, and a commitment to continuous growth—offers powerful lessons for all of us.And I want to give a quick shout out to our partners at Mack Weldon for introducing us to Desmond – great brands attract great people, and this is certainly no exception. To experience the comfort of Mack Weldon clothing for yourself and receive 20% off orders over $100, just head to the following link and enter the code FINDINGMASTERY at checkout: https://mackweldon.com/findingmastery Enjoy this incredible conversation with Desmond Howard._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Finding Mastery is brought to you by Remarkable. In a world that's full of distractions, focused thinking is becoming a rare skill and a massive competitive advantage. That's why I've been using the Remarkable Paper Pro, a digital notebook designed to help you think clearly and work deliberately. It's not another device filled with notifications or apps.

It's intentionally built for deep work. So there's no social media, no email, no noise. The writing experience, it feels just like pen on paper. I love it. And it has the intelligence of digital tools like converting your handwriting to text, organizing your notes, tagging files, and using productivity templates

to help you be more effective. It is sleek, minimal. It's incredibly lightweight. It feels really good. I take it with me anywhere from meetings to travel without missing a beat. What I love most is that it doesn't try to do everything. It just helps me do one very important thing really well,

stay present and engaged with my thinking and writing. If you wanna slow down, if you wanna work smarter, I highly encourage you to check them out. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and grab your paper pro today. Like my target is being the best. My target is giving it my all. My target is making sure

not to let down my teammates. Football is way more mental than the average viewer can comprehend. I will calm myself so much, I will just fall asleep before the game in my locker. You just want to be the best version of yourself. Okay, welcome back, or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I am your host, Dr. Michael Gervais by trade and training, a high-performance psychologist. Kids who grew up playing American

football dream of doing a few things, winning the Heisman Trophy, being a top NFL draft pick, winning a Super Bowl, and in their wildest of dreams, perhaps even winning a Super Bowl MVP. Our guest today is one of the rare few who made all of those dreams a reality, Desmond Howard. Desmond's career is a highlight reel, jaw-dropping plays at the University of Michigan and in the NFL, a journey that's left an indelible mark on the sport. And now he's a prolific broadcaster for ESPN College Game Day, making him not just an athlete, but a true icon in the world of sports. What's equally remarkable, if not more so, are the strategies that have fueled his success.

And I want to give a quick shout out to our partners at Mack Weldon for introducing us to Desmond. When we asked them if they were connected to anyone who exemplifies excellence, confidence, and the path to mastery, they immediately thought of Desmond. It was so great to connect. It's clear why great brands like Mack Weldon and great people are attracted to each other. And this is certainly no exception. So with that, let's dive right into this incredible conversation with Desmond Howard. Desmond, I am so stoked to have you on the podcast, to have this conversation. I've been really looking forward to this for a long time, but before I jump in with all the fire and curiosity

that I have about how you do your life. Yes. Let me just check in. Like, how are you today? I'm, I'm, I'm fantastic. I'm really good. I'm enjoying my time at home. Now this is, this is the part of the season when I get a little downtime. So good time to spend with the family and, you know, do other things I like to do. So I'm doing right. I'm in a good space right now. Thanks for asking. Oh, that's cool.

And is that more often than not, you're in a good space, even when you're in the rhythm of the season and doing your broadcasting? Do you feel like overall you're in a pretty good place in life? Or is it the other way? It's like, look, some days it's hard to get out of bed for me. And I, you know, I struggle a bit. Ooh, that's a really good question. I think overall, even if I struggle, I feel like, you know, I don't struggle long. So even if I don't feel like getting out of bed, like you just mentioned, that doesn't last long. Like, you

know what I mean? Like all of us, we have that moment where we'd rather stay in bed for another 10, 15, maybe 30 minutes. But then I think about all sorts of things that may motivate me or inspire me. And then, yeah, I get out of bed. Okay. So I definitely want to understand kind of the drive behind your success. Now, look, I'm going to pump your tires here for a minute. Okay. Heisman trophy winner. All right. So that's like the best out of college. Fourth overall draft pick for the NFL. Now to get to the NFL, it's a 0.023% from high school to the pros. You are fourth overall. And it's a 1.6 chance to get into the NFL from college. So 1.6% of all college athletes who are extraordinary get into the NFL and you're fourth overall. Then you get to the Super Bowl.

Not only do you get to the Super Bowl, you are the MVP of the Super Bowl. Okay. And now you're at ESPN College Game Day, which is kind of a, you know, that's a, it's the premier broadcast around college football. So, yeah, I mean, with all of those achievements, yes. I, I don't know where you're going to take the, this question, but how do you think about success? Wow. Um, I think it's important for you to define success in your own individual way. I really do. I think, especially with what's going on in today's world and the way social media has really started to influence things, I think it's really important for you to be able to define it for yourself. Now, I can say that now because I'm accomplished, I've done a lot. And I look at life through a different lens, so to speak. But for the most part, growing up, I had heroes. I had people who I looked up to

and I wanted to be like, I wanted to emulate them. So my success growing up was like, I want to be like this person. I want to be like that person. I think my definition of success started to change. It started to mature, so to speak, once I got to college. So because I understood life a little differently. So I would say you define success by the way you view life. In my view, my lens, my perspective, it always evolves. So my definition of success would always evolve also. Okay.

So when you were young in college, how were you? This is retrospective. You got to go back and try to imagine what you were, you know, thinking about as a college kid, but like, were you thinking success was getting to the league? Was it breaking records? Was it being happy? Was it making money? Was it being part of something special? Like what were you focused on at that point? And then we'll just fast forward to now. All right, doc. Well, let me let me um put it to you like this so i was a a little kid growing up in cleveland ohio who was a big big dallas cowboys fan okay okay so like i go way back with you know tom landry uh tony dorsett roger starbuck

tony hill uh drew pearson i mean i can give you the whole lineup. Ed Tutal, Jones, Harvey Martin. And so Tony Dorsett was my idol. So he went to Pitt. Pitt's not too far from Cleveland. I watched him in college. I watched him with the Cowboys and I was a running back. So at that point, going to the NFL, being a running back like my idol, Tony Dorsett, was like my, I guess, definition of being successful. Then I got to Michigan. Long story, but I changed positions from running back to wide receiver. Now, you mentioned I won the Heisman. Back then in the 80s and 90s, I mean, Michigan was known as a team that just ran the football. Like they called it three yards in the cloud of dust.

So for me to even be considered for the Heisman was like not even on my radar. But what I did learn when I was at Michigan, Doc, was that you had to control the controllables. Like you could only control what you controlled. This came to me in not the best way because it happened to a good friend of mine who was a teammate. He was, I think he was a three, I want to say a three-time All-American defensive back. His name was Trip Wellborn. So Trip was the best player on our team, Trip Wellborn. And, you know, he was a defensive back and he also returned punts.

And so Trip was returning a punt and he got tackled on the far sideline. And, you know, he stayed on the ground. Our trainers ran to the far sideline to help him out. And he came back, you know, they brought him over and we thought nothing of it. You know, the next thing I know, Doc, is a few days later, I'm in the hospital visiting Tripp, who had had an ACL. He tore his ACL. Now this is probably 89, 90. Back then, that was almost career-threatening for a football player, the Terrier ACL. I just remember feeling sick to my stomach, looking at my guy in this hospital bed. It was like a routine play. No one thought anything of it. And here he is, the best player on Michigan's team,

one of the best in the country. And he couldn't control everything that happened on that field that day. And so it really opened my eyes that you have to control the controllables, which is something I was taught by my mentor at the time, a guy named Greg Harden. And so it gave me just a different perspective of life. I knew that I can control my academics. I can control going to class. I can control doing my papers, turning my assignments in on time. I could control all that. But as talented as Tripp was, he was like one of the greats, he still couldn't control everything that happened on that field. So my definition of success was, of course, I would love to play in the NFL,

but it wasn't like the primary goal at that time. It was more like, okay, I want to get my degree. I want to graduate from Michigan and I want to put myself or set myself up. So life after, you know, college, I will be able to be, you know, hopefully gainfully employed. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true. Meaningful relationships are at the center of sustained success. And building those relationships, it takes more than effort. It takes a real caring about your people.

It takes the right tools, the right information at the right time. And that's where LinkedIn Sales Navigator can come in. It's a tool designed specifically for thoughtful sales professionals, helping you find the right people that are ready to engage, track key account changes, and connect with key decision makers more effectively. It surfaces real-time signals, like when someone changes jobs

or when an account becomes high priority, so that you can reach out at exactly the right moment with context and thoroughness that builds trust. It also helps tap into your own network more strategically, showing you who you already know that can help you open doors or make a warm introduction. In other words, it's not about more outreach. It's about smarter, more human outreach. And that's something here at Finding Mastery that our team lives and breathes by. If you're ready to start building stronger relationships that actually convert, try LinkedIn Sales Navigator for free for 60 days at linkedin.com slash deal.

That's linkedin.com slash deal. For two full months for free terms and conditions apply finding mastery is brought to you by david protein i'm pretty intentional about what i eat and the majority of my nutrition comes from whole foods and when i'm traveling or in between meals on a demanding day certainly i need something quick that will support the way that i feel and think and perform and that's why i've been leaning on David Protein Bars. And so has the team here at Finding Mastery. In fact, our GM, Stuart, he loves them so much.

I just want to kind of quickly put him on the spot. Stuart, I know you're listening. I think you might be the reason that we're running out of these bars so quickly. They're incredible, Mike. I love them. One a day. One a day. One a day, one a day. What do you mean one a day? There's way more than that happening here. Don't tell. Okay. All right. Look, they're incredibly simple. They're effective. 28 grams

of protein, just 150 calories and zero grams of sugar. It's rare to find something that fits so conveniently into a performance-based lifestyle and actually tastes good. Dr. Peter Attia, someone who's been on the show, it's a great episode by the way, is also their chief science officer. So I know they've done their due diligence in that category. My favorite flavor right now is the chocolate chip cookie dough. And a few of our teammates here at Finding Mastery have been loving the fudge brownie and peanut butter. I know, Stuart, you're still listening here. So getting enough protein matters. And that can't be understated, not just for strength, but for energy and focus, recovery, for longevity. And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals

with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. Okay. So control what you can control. It's such an easy idea, hard to execute against. And at some level, it's hard to know at a first pass for some, like what is actually in my control? And there's two ways that folks go about this. They go about it like, listen, there's only a couple of things that I can control. I can control my thoughts, the ones I'm aware of. I can control my responses, my behaviors. In other words, I can control my attitude.

So there's only a handful of things that I can really control. And some people go, no, no, no, you're not thinking about it right. You can control thousands of things. What you say to yourself, what you say to other people, how you sit, how you stand, how you hold yourself, whether you smile, whether you stand, how you hold yourself, you know, whether you smile, whether you eat an apple or an apple pie, like they can all get reduced down to a handful of buckets. Yeah. But how did, it sounds like what you did is you, you niche down to say, right, I'm going to, I can control my effort at school. Right. So I'm going to, I'm going to

focus on that. I can control maybe my fitness. So maybe I don't get hurt again. I don't get hurt like my teammate. So tell me, did you niche way down or did you just kind of keep it more conceptual? I guess for me, especially at that point, I was relatively young. I was probably about 19. I think I kept it relatively conceptual, just doing the things that my peers didn't do. And you mentioned about trying to put myself in the best position possible, maybe not to get injured. And you just really can't control injuries, but you can control your fitness. You can control your sleep habits. You can control your nutrition, your dietary intake. And those things are the things I really start to focus on too. I'll give you a perfect example. So I was a sprinter coming out

of high school. I ran 100, I ran the 200, I ran the four by one. I hated distance running with a passion. But at Michigan, every single position had a test, which was called the mile and a half run. And based on your position, you had to run a mile and a half under a certain number. And so I hated distance. I didn't see what the purpose was. And I was, you know, I rebelled against it. And, you know, you had to get up and be part of the morning crew if you failed the test. So what I did, Doc, when I had this change in my mental approach was I started to not only work out with our strength and conditioning staff because you had to. But then after that was over, I would go back to my apartment and I would engage in cross-training before it was called cross-training.

I would jump rope for 10 minutes. And so we're talking late 80s, early 90s. We had cassettes, right? So we listened to music on a cassette and I would tape my favorite three songs you know back to back on the cassette player and I knew each song was about three minutes and a half so I knew that I would be jumping rope for like ten minutes ten minutes yeah so that was my thing I will hit the speed bag and I was like that I still do that now yeah that's how I do jump roping like I don't look at a clock. No. I just want to vibe to a couple songs.

Exactly. I'm at like three minutes to be clear. One song. But that's my, that's my tactic. Yes, sir. Yeah. You're not, you're not at three songs anymore now. It works.

No, I, well, I can, I can get up to three songs. I had, yeah, I can get up to three. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, um, so I would three songs. I can get up to three. Yeah, okay. So I would do that. I'm a huge boxing fan, so jump rope. Boxers, they jump rope religiously, but they also do road work. So I started to commit myself to running a mile every evening,

and then I got up to a mile and a half, Doc, and then I got up to two miles. And I was like, okay, this is good. And I also hit the speed back for hand eye coordination. And so when it came to the time to take this mile and a half test, like I crushed it. Like my whole because my whole perspective had changed. My whole mental approach had changed, but it goes back to that, control the controllables, do the things that you can do, and then just let the chips fall where they may. So, you know, I wasn't going out. I wasn't going out as much. I didn't drink. I made sure that my, you know, my diet was on point and things of that nature. And so it put myself in the best position, not only to, you know, to try to avoid injury, but to also be not the best football player, but the best athlete on the field every time

I took the field. And that was my approach that I learned from my guy, Greg Harden. Okay. All right. So let me get, let me get, I love where you're going because you're, you're creating a formula for you, right? Which is you had some heroes, you had some people that you would say, that looks like a good life. You didn't know them. You didn't know if they're happy or not, but it was what they were doing was inspiring to. Correct. And you were working hard because you were trying to get to the next level, whatever. And then you had a moment where you saw somebody's dream who was highly talented be sidelined. Right. And you said, okay, look, that scared me.

Okay. So what am I going to do about that? I'm going to niche down to, I'm going to be great with the things that I can control because getting injured is out of my control. So I'm going to get the inputs right. And then, so then what you did is you said, I'm going to let the chips fall where they may, which means that somehow in you, you have high trust. And so you're able to trust that if I do my inputs, I will trust that the outputs will be what they will be. What was it like growing up? Did you have high trust

of others? Did you say, no, no, people are not right. And did you have low trust? Tell me about the early framing of trust. Because this is a big one for, I think, so many of us. My water table of trust is like moderate. Really? Okay. I would say that I think that trust with a lot of other things, it goes up and down based on our experiences. So early on, I had a lot of trust in my friends. I got trust in my friends, trusting for the most part adults that they wanted the best for us as kids. I had trust in my coaches. So there was just a lot of just, I wouldn't necessarily say blind trust, but that childhood trust, the trust that you have as a kid, as an adolescent too. So I had a lot of trust, but the people, they didn't betray my trust. And now that I think about it, I was happy that I trusted, especially my coaches, the way that I did because they coached us hard. Like I came up, Doc, in an era where it was a term called tough love. So, you know, they were disciplinarians. You know, we're talking about an era when the neighbors

would, you know, would check you if you did something wrong as if they were like a relative. So there was always this trust in the parents, your parents, or at least my parents, you know, they wouldn't like second guess it. They'd be like, okay, what did you do wrong? You know what I mean? Because they had the trust that these people had you know the best interest of your your your children and all the kids in the community so that was then i'm i'm way less trustful now as an adult than i was as a child so yeah that's that's okay. That's cool though. Then you had this feeling as a youngster that the community is creating safety. They're challenging me,

but there's a safety amongst the tribe. Correct. Exactly. Okay. That probably gave you some of that comfort with like, if I get the inputs, I can't control the outputs, but I'm going to trust that this is the right process.

And so when I hear you talking, it sounds like success was getting to the next level and performing well at the current level. There's the goals in there, but the process for your success at that time was summarized by master or control the controllables. Okay. And it sounds like you, if we think about motivation in a kind of like in four different variables um but two primaries there's drive and rewards it sounds like you were internally driven 100 like like you did not need to have an uncle or dad or a coach or a mom or a sister say hey desmond get up it's. It's you would say, no, no, no, no. I set my alarm. I get up. I am internally driven. Does that sound right? A hundred percent accurate.

Absolutely. Okay. And because there's, there's a folklore that the best of the best of the best are internally driven and, and, and people don't really want to believe that that's the case, but you're, you're, you're an N of one, at least it says, no, no, no, you did not have to tell me I was driving the program. The second is on the reward side, there's intrinsic rewards and extrinsic. So the intrinsic rewards is, I just love how it feels to figure shit out. Like, like, and I know that if I want to figure out this next thing, if I want to unlock something, I got to do road work and rope work and I got to be on. So I love figuring out how this tapestry comes together. Is that true?

Yeah. I mean, that's a part of it. That's a part of the equation. It's definitely, you know, it's a big equation, but that's a significant part of it. Because the other side is the extrinsic rewards. No, I'm doing this so I get paid. I get recognized. And it's not an all or nothing.

Right. I believe, this is a belief, not a theory here. I believe that we can love the way it feels to unlock and also love the externals that come with it or, or, or want them if you will. So, you know, that to me is, I think something really important. So where was your, if you had an equalizer on the, on the, on the rewards, the love of unlocking or the love of getting paid. So if you had an equalizer and a 10 out of 10 on both of them is like, I'm full tilt on both. Where would you put your dials?

Well, intrinsic would be the higher dial of the two because it's more, I think those who are worried about the getting paid, they're more results oriented. I mean, that's their target. And that was never really my target. Like my target is being the best. My target is giving it my all. My target is making sure not to let down my teammates. Like that was what motivated me, what my drive was about. It wasn't, and then I knew that if I did that, then not only would I, you know,

set myself up to be the best player I can be, but then I would rub off on my teammates and it would start to be something that they would do also, that they would follow. You know, you can lead in a great way like that. If you're getting, if you're out there being the example that you want others to be. And so, um, that's, that was what really drove me, so to speak. Okay. So let me unpack this one more layer is that, cause you said it two different ways. I was driven to be the best. And then I heard you say, I was driven to be my best. Yeah. So those are, those are different, right? Right. If I could probably like Greg, when I was

in, when I was at Michigan, I think Greg Harden put it best. He said, you want to be the best version of yourself. So that's, that's the simplest way I can put it for anybody who's listening or watching this podcast. You just want to be the best version of yourself. That's what you should strive for. And that's what I found. And I thought it was a relatively early age, which is probably about 18 or 19 when I was at Michigan. And then that's what drove me from that point forward.

I think that that is so rare, a fundamental commitment, not just like a word or a phrase I throw around, but a fundamental commitment. And why that word matters or that phrase matters, fundamental commitment, because it then fundamentally shapes your choices, your micro choices. But a fundamental commitment to be my best is so rare. It is so special that those folks that make that fundamental commitment end up, end up being the best. And so would you agree with that? Or would you say, because you and I both know freaks, they, they roll out of bed, halfover or asleep. And they jump 42 inches.

Yes. They're a freak in the air. We know those freaks. Were you a freak? No. Or you earned your speed? I was talented. I had my gifts.

But I worked extremely hard. And like I said, I committed myself to my craft. But the flip side, you're talking about those freaks. I would, I knew guys, I played with guys who were just physical freaks. Like they were just incredibly gifted and they, you know, it's not like they, you know, did anything extraordinary off the field to make them, you know, extraordinary on the field, just who they were. I used to look at guys and say, man, just imagine like, if you stopped drinking, you know, what on the field, just who they were. I used to look at guys and say, man, just imagine like if you stop drinking, you know, what you will be able to do on the field of you. If you stop hanging out, you know, late at night and got the proper amount of rest, just imagine,

you know, how you would take off. I mean, you're incredibly gifted, talented, blah, blah, blah. And you're putting up good numbers, but you could put up better numbers. So yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. I mean, I've played with some physical freaks and was like, whoa. And then, but like you said, they just, they roll out of bed and can go out there and have like a pretty, pretty significant performance. It's not sustainable though. And that's why I wanted to, that's why I wanted to talk to you is because you've sustained excellence over time, over 20 some years, like 30 years of, of not, not just like you were good in high school, good in college, good.

And you got to the Superbowl and got a ring. You were, you were, you were him as the guys, right? Okay. So, you were him, as the guys go, right? Okay, so the sustaining, as I'm understanding it, and it feels like, I want to make sure that you and I are not just agreeing to have a nice conversation, but when it comes up that you chin check it, like, no, no, okay. So what it feels like is that the sustaining

is that you invested in the process. That process had a lot to do with your mental game, the way that you were thinking about being great as equally or even maybe more on technical skills and physical skills. Now, hold on for a minute. You're 5'10". Right. That would be considered small for a minute. You're five, 10. Right. That would be considered small for a wide receiver punt returner. Correct. You know, especially exactly in your role. That's small, right? In your former profession. Yeah. Now you're, it's quite average. We're the same height. I understand. I understand exactly what it feels like to be in that body or a five, 10 body. Okay. So, um, all right. So is that when you think about the mental part of the game, the technical part of the game and the physical part of the game, how do you allocate

a percentage to the value for each one of those? I know that, especially football, football is way more mental than the average viewer can comprehend. It is way more mental because there are a lot of people with physical ability, right? And what starts to separate people is the mental approach. You know, the things we talked about earlier about the way you take care of your body, the way you take care of your mind, the way you approach it. And what's your motivation? I mean, that's why so many people are just blown away by a person like a Michael Jordan or a Kobe Bryant. I mean, even like a Derek Jeter or Tom Brady, because like Tom Brady, you look at those three boxes, he's not gifted physically. He wasn't gonna blow you away with his arm strength or anything like that.

But where he started to separate himself from the most gifted of athletes was his mental approach. You know, Kobe was gifted, but everyone knows Kobe, he worked his ass off to sharpen his sword. You know, that Mamba mentality would never bring about a dull sword. No. So that's what started to separate him from his peers. So I believe the mental aspect of it does not get enough attention or enough credit, but just how important it is. pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday. What you put in your body matters. And that's why I trust Momentous. From the moment I sat down with Jeff Byers, their co-founder and CEO,

I could tell this was not your average supplement company. And I was immediately drawn to their mission, helping people achieve performance for life. And to do that, they developed what they call the Momentus Standard. Every product is formulated with top experts and every batch is third-party tested, NSF certified for sport or informed sport. So you know exactly what you're getting. Personally, I'm anchored by what they call the Momentus 3, protein, creatine, and omega-3. And together, these foundational

nutrients support muscle recovery, brain function, and long-term energy. They're part of my daily routine. And if you're ready to fuel your brain and body with the best, Momentus has a great new offer just for our community right here. Use the code FINDINGMASTERY for 35% off your first subscription order at livemomentous.com. Again, that's L-I-V-E momentous, M-O-M-E-N-T-O-U-S, livemomentous.com and use the code Finding Mastery for 35% off your first subscription order. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Felix Gray. I spent a lot of time thinking about how we can create the conditions for high performance. How do we protect our ability to focus, to recover, to be present? And one of the biggest challenges we face today is our sheer amount of screen time.

It messes with our sleep, our clarity, even our mood. And that's why I've been using Felix Gray glasses. What I appreciate most about Felix Gray is that they're just not another wellness product. They're rooted in real science developed alongside leading researchers and ophthalmologists. They've demonstrated these types of glasses boost melatonin, help you fall asleep faster and hit deeper stages of rest. When I'm on the road and bouncing around between time zones, slipping on my Felix Grays in the evening, it's a simple way to cue my body just to wind down. And when I'm locked into deep work, they also help me stay focused for longer without digital fatigue creeping in.

Plus, they look great. Clean, clear, no funky color distortion. Just good design, great science. And if you're ready to feel the difference for yourself, Felix Gray is offering all Finding Mastery listeners 20% off. Just head to FelixGray.com and use the code FindingMastery20 at checkout. Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y.com and use the code FindingMastery20 at FelixGray.com for 20% off. When you think of the mental skills to be great and let's just, let's just hit, let me just kind of list a few and then talk about, you know, which ones you resonate with. Okay.

Okay. The ability to be calm, to have that right intense intensity with a smoothness. Okay. So that's one, like that's an ability that we can train. Okay. The ability to be confident, which is this internal calculus, which is like, okay, I see the challenge ahead of me. I think I can get that done now. I map the challenge against my personal, my internal skills. And I, and that equation comes up favorable. Like I can get, I like it it i like the challenge let's go so that's what a confident person not arrogant right not bombastic but like

i'm good at the internal calculus right let's go all right and then uh deep focus to be able to stay in it when it's agitating and hard or overwhelming that's a skill yeah mental imagery seeing it before it happens playing the most beautiful movie you could imagine in your mind, being aware, having a sense of awareness of how things are working so that you can refocus your mind. So those are just a handful of them. When you hear those, being calm, being confident, mental imagery, high awareness, deep focus, letting go of mistakes. I didn't talk about that one. Which ones do you go, yeah, I was pretty good at that one.

I worked my ass off at it too, though. Well, the first one, being calm, I had a great story for that one I'll share with you. Because I had to learn how to be calm. Because I would be so hyped up because I had to learn how to be calm because I would be so hyped up that I had to learn that. And in the process of learning that though, Doc, I also learned mental imagery. So I'm big on visualization. I'm huge on visualization. I want to play the game in my head before I actually play the game on the field. And meditation helped me with that.

So meditation, mental imagery, which ultimately left to me being calm. That ultimately led to that space, so to speak. So anyway, but when I was in college, Doc, man, I would sit in my room and I would look at my playbook. And the reason you look at plays is, to me, it should be because you visualize yourself on the field executing these plays. At the same time, you should visualize the defense trying to stop you from executing these plays. So I was big on that. And I still do that to this day, even with college game day. I may not know what the other guys are going to say, but I know what the topics are and I know what the pros and cons are. So I'm having those

conversations in my head before I ever get to the desk. So I'm huge on that. I think it helps with you being calm in certain situations. I was in Super Bowl 31, Doc, and that's just an experience like no other. It just is. The Super Bowl is the top of the mountain in football. And so one of the first plays, I had a punt return against the New England Patriots. I had a really nice return. And I got tackled on the Patriots' sideline. And it was just like an outer body experience. I mean, they were talking shit to me.

I was returning the compliments and the expletives, you know, and and I got back on my this throbbing pain in my head, felt like a pulse. And I had to immediately go see the trainer. And then he gave me some techniques to calm myself down, to be able to go out there and perform the way that I did the rest of that evening. But you talked about being calm. Up until that point, I was the type of player doc that i could sit in my locker before a game especially when i was at michigan i would call myself so much i would just fall asleep before the game in my locker like pre-game that's how calm i was before games desmond you're dropped like the per minute number of gems that you're dropping is almost too much for me. I guess I am officially turned into some kind of nerd where I get excited about like, oh, there it is. There it is.

There it is. But so you wouldn't necessarily know this, but I got to share a Super Bowl as well. I didn't wear a helmet. I was on the sidelines working as a sports psych in 48 and 49. Okay. So we won one in dramatic fashion and then we lost one in dramatic fashion. And so did you approach the games, the Superbowl as the biggest game of your life, or did you approach it as just another game?

You know, it's hard to approach it just as just another game because of everything, all the pageantry surrounding it. I mean, it's just it isn't it isn't just another game. But ultimately, when you, you know, you get in the locker room, you're done with the warm ups. And now, you know, you're about to go out there and play this game. You get through this grandiose introduction and all of that, you have to be able to calm yourself down, to put yourself in the space where this is going to be like the other games we played. Normally though, to be honest with you, that happens after maybe the first series on offense or the first series on defense or the first special teams play. That's when you really

start to calm down, you settle in, and then you go about your business. But for a Super Bowl, there's just way too much surrounding it to just honestly go out there and say, okay, yeah, it's just like another game. We go out there and we try to execute. It's like, no, but eventually you get tackled a couple of times, you make a couple of tackles, you get into the floor of the game. And that's when you're like, okay, now we're ready to play this game just like we play any and every other game. So what I hear you say there is like, I needed evidence. I needed some real contact, some evidence, some time under tension to know if I could say I can do this. And hearing all of your preparation to be

almost fall asleep pre-game, to be so calm. I want to ask you how you did that, to use mental imagery. I totally hear what you're saying. And I want to share you what we did in 48. Coach Carroll, the coaching staff, myself included, we approached pre-season game number one as if it was the most important game of the season, which is not, that's a rare approach. Then game number three, then game number six and game number eight, as if it's a championship opportunity. And we'd use that phrase all the time. It's another championship opportunity. Then when playoff game number one came, it was another championship opportunity. When the Superbowl came around, it was another championship opportunity. So we just didn't have a philosophy like,

Hey, this is just like every game or it's the biggest show on earth. We, for the entire season, including preseason practices, this is the most important practice that you get. It's the only one we have it's today. And so for the entire year, we're preparing all of us to play one rep at a time with high intensity so that when the Super Bowl hoopla, the big circus that it is, all the media that floods, as you well know. And if you look at if you look how we started the game, we came out flying. Do you remember that 48? Would you play Super Bowl 48? No, no.

This was us Seahawks against the Broncos. Against the Broncos. Okay. Against the Broncos. Yeah, yeah. And so it was the first play of the game that unfolded and told the whole story that the snap went over. So they had the ball to start. The snap went over Peyton Manning's head.

Yeah, yeah. And our D scrambled and we got a safety. Yeah. And it just started the whole thing you know i think i think technically peyton got a fumble on that but it was a really funky snap right right right yeah so um so um my point is is that you can go at it however you want it's the biggest show on earth and i'm going to prepare right, or you can say, it's just another game, but you have to practice it. Okay. Not to get too carried away with some, some war stories or some, not war,

some fun stories you and I had in the Superbowl, but how, what was your practice in the, in the locker to be that calm? What would you do? Man, so I would, since I already had the mental images, the mental imagery in my head where I played the game the night before. Well, I played during the week, but definitely the night before the game. And what I would do is I would like meditate and I would think about people in my life,

circumstances in my life, circumstances in my life, anything that would inspire me outside of just the game. Because, you know, mentally, I'm already ready for the game. I'm there. Now I would think about things that are internal sources of motivation, but in a calm way, in a very calm way. And then I could just relax my body, relax my mind, and fall asleep before some of the biggest games that we had at the big house. And yeah, it used to surprise some of my coaches

and my teammates, especially the guys whose locker was right next to mine like like how does desmond do it right yeah yeah it sounds like yeah it sounds like you would do some breathing you would take your mind into places that were help you be more of a full human right things that you're grateful for things that would ground you yes be present and breathing is important too i'm glad you mentioned that breathing is very important yeah when i was with the the seahawks if you would walk through the locker room pre-game you'd see i don't know i'll be generous like 40 35 something like that of the athletes with a towel over their head okay and that was like the sign that we developed like

hey i'm doing my thing right and so you're like i'm doing my imagery i'm doing my thing. Right. And so like, I'm, I'm doing my imagery. I'm doing my breathing. I'm meditating. I'm just going to my, and so the towel over the head was like a sink, a symbol, like, you know, like, Hey, give me my space. Right. And so we were normalizing mental skills training in that way. And it was really cool. It was, it was a, it was a nice little kind of moment for, for the crew, but okay. So when it comes to confidence, it sounds like what you were doing for confidence, you did a ton of preparation. You would play the movie out the way that you would want to see it tomorrow or later, you know,

in the week if you're doing it on a Wednesday for a Sunday's game. Right. And could you see and feel when you're doing the imagery or was it just seeing? When you say feel like it's not like i felt like i was well i tried not to get tackled so so yeah with my images i was very successful and it felt good okay so you have feeling okay good so, good. So could you hear it? Yeah. Yeah. I could feel it. I could hear it. I would put myself there. I was there. And so to me,

I would make it as real as possible. And I would hear a crowd. You can hear a crowd too. So it was as real as possible. Like I said, I would try to play the game. It's play by play. I'm looking at these plays, imagining these plays, and I'm executing these plays one by one, but successfully. Were you in your helmet or were you watching from a drone's perspective? I was in my helmet. Yeah, I was in my helmet because I always see the defender across from me for the most part. Now, sometimes if I'm doing something like special teams wise, I would be in my helmet because one of the most important aspects for a punt returner is for him to be able to see the ball off the toe or the foot of the punter, or as a kick returner, see it off the toe or the foot of the kicker, and be able to determine the direction of the punt. I was the type of guy who I would see it leave his foot, and then once I tracked the flight

of the ball, I would look down to see who's closest to me. Is it the gunner to my left, the gunner to my right? Which guy is the guy coming down the middle? So then it gave me a gauge of how much time I would have before that ball would fall into my arms until someone would be close enough to hit me. So that's how I would gauge it. So I want to set this up for the listener, just how heavy this is. Balls in the air. Yes. You've got eight, 240, six foot four alpha females, alpha males, as fast as you can imagine.

Yes. As violently aggressive as you can imagine that are hoping that you don't see them so that they can tackle you in an aggressively violent way. And so the amount of courage and the poise to wait for that ball to drop when you've got three steps away from you, somebody running full speed, it's pretty incredible what you've done. And you're 5'10". Right, right, right. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Right? So you're in that way. So when the ball's in the air, you'd pick it off the toe. Yeah. You'd look in the air. Right. And then would you come back down and look where your, your, your, your team, where the gunners and the, and the athletes are coming.

And then would you go back to the ball? Like, how would you do that? Yeah. So I would, yeah, once it left his foot, I tracked the flight of the ball. I would go in that direction. And then I would look down. I always want to point out the gunners to see where they were on the field. I would look

back up. And if it's like one of those guys who had like great hang time, then I would take a second look down just to see if they're closer. Cause these guys, they want to get a kill shot on you. You know what I mean? They want to get that clean kill shot. And I will look up what I did doc to, um, to be able to bring this, um, this skill set to life was I would do it in practice. So I would have like an assistant coach stand somewhere in between me and the punter, maybe about 20 yards from me. And then when the ball's in the air,

I will have him put up his hand and put up a number. And I will have to call out that number. And I will look up and then he would do it again. And have to call out that number and I will look that look up and then he would do it again and I will call out that number. So that was a drill that I did just so I would become more and more comfortable actually doing it in the game. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool. Okay. So again, practice the way you want to play. So you take practice seriously. It's all about the process, Doc. It's all about the process. Yes. The process, the fundamentals, the principles, but yes, sir. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't

just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised me the most is how much it actually helps regulate temperature. I tend to run warm at night and these sheets have helped me sleep cooler and more consistently, which has made a meaningful difference in how I show up the next day for myself, my family, and our team here at Finding Mastery. It's become part of my nightly routine. Throw on their lounge pants or pajamas, crawl into bed under their sheets, and my nervous system starts to settle. They also offer a 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty on all of

their bedding, which tells me, tells you that they believe in the long-term value of what they're creating. If you're ready to upgrade your rest and turn your bed into a better recovery zone, use the code FINDINGMASTERY for 40% off at CozyEarth.com. That's a great discount for our community. Again, the code is FINDINGMASTERY for 40% off at CozyEarth.com.

Finding Mastery is brought to you by Caldera Lab. I believe that the way we do small things in life is how we do all things. And for me, that includes how I take care of my body. I've been using Caldera Lab for years now. And what keeps me coming back, it's really simple. Their products are simple. And they reflect the kind of intentional living that I want to build into every part of my day. And they make my morning routine really easy. They've got some great new products I think you'll be interested in.

A shampoo, conditioner, and a hair serum. With Caldera Lab, it's not about adding more. It's about choosing better. And when your day demands clarity and energy and presence, the way you prepare for it matters. If you're looking for high-quality personal care products that elevate your routine without complicating it, I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash findingmastery

and use the code findingmastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash finding mastery. Okay. So a mutual colleague of ours put us together when I was talking about, you know, who are some of the greats that he's connected with. And when he mentioned your name, he's the CEO of Mack Weldon, uh, for, for the listener. Um, Mack Weldon is a, is a company I'm really interested in. Like it's a, it's a clothing line that, um, they've been around and they, they've just got this smooth style. I don't know. I don't know another way to say it.

And when we talk, he's so fundamentally interested in where confidence comes from. And it feels like their brand cares about their way to help people feel confident. And so what is your take on specifically confidence? I think it all stems from the work ethic when it comes to anything that I do. I think the work ethic, the preparation, paying attention to the finer details, I think that's where, for me, the confidence comes from. When you know you've put in the work and you know that you left no stone unturned, then I think it helps you go out there and execute with the utmost confidence. That's just, I mean, and the beauty, like you said, we were connected by Brian. And, you know, it's just a pleasure to meet Brian. And we can talk about the Mack Weldon brand because I love their attire.

But the beauty of what we do, Doc, and you've been in NFL is that we do come across different people from all walks of life who've been extremely successful. And some of the things that they have in common is the confidence. And when I speak to different people, it normally comes from their preparation. No matter what field or discipline they're in, what field of work they're in, the preparation is what starts to fuel their confidence. And then it becomes, man, it's like a snowball effect because then the more success you have the more confidence you start to gain and you start to believe in that process

that gave you the confidence so it's a beautiful thing to watch unfold it really is. One of their first principles and I just want to see if you vibe with it which is believe that knowing is more important than showing which is a really interesting is more important than showing,

which is a really interesting first principle for a clothing company. And so do you vibe with that? Believe that knowing is more important than showing. 100%. You know, it's the thing that they say, if you know, you know. I agree with that wholeheartedly. If you know, you know. So I believe that. Because there's a Yeah. If you know, you know, so I believe that.

Yeah. Cause there's a lot of sayings in the locker room, which is like, I don't know. I, I don't vibe with this at all, but maybe you will, which is look good,

feel good, play good. Right. Right. And like, I, I, I hear that sequence and I go,

no way, no way. Am I going to let playing good be a factor of looking good. Right. And so, believe that knowing is more important than showing is like this completely opposite of look good, feel good, play good. Well, I think from a mental standpoint, it's all about how you feel mentally. So if guys feel that they look good, then that puts you in the right space for that moment to go out there and do what you need to do to go out there and execute it.

I mean, we had one of the greatest players to ever play the sport of football. Deion Sanders is one of the guys who really coined that whole phrase, so to speak. You look good, you feel good, you play good. Well, there's one thing that's true in that whole phrase is that if you feel good, you should play good. And that's the most important thing. Now, how you get to the feel good part is on you. But Deion, it was like, well, I'm looking good. So if I look good, and guess what? Now I feel good. And everybody knows if I feel good, I'm going to go out there and I'm going to play fantastic. Like I'm a bus, I'm, you know, I'm going to go out there and handle my business. So, but you got

to get to the, what's going to make you feel good. And it can't be something that's, it has to be true. You know what I mean? It has to be legitimate. And I mean, Dion's the guy who backed it up. Oh, yeah. I mean, even just talking about Dion, you got amplified. He's something else. But I love what you just did. You took the second two, feel good. Right.

And then there's a direct link to play good. Right. And so part of the inner game is knowing how to use all of your inputs to feel good. And then I would even add one more level. Like for me, I've showed up on stages or whatever, sick, tired, and I can still get to play good. But there's some sort of thing. Have you had those games where you're like under the weather, flu, cold game, those types of things where you still play well? Oh, yeah.

But I love what you just did. Feel good to play good and then maybe maybe who cares in my mind you just might look good but i don't i'm not trying to look good to get to feel good anyways i think it's a it's thrown around so often um the strength coach at the seahawks they used to do this what i thought was a silly practice but the guys loved it they They called it TV arms. Was it Saturday night? Saturday morning, they would do TV arms, like biceps and triceps, which is not functional in any way. They're just TV arms. That's right.

Yeah. Oh, too funny. All right. Listen, I love this conversation. I have a sense, a felt sense, to use the feeling word, that you live a vibrant life, that you bring a zest and a spark into all rooms and conversations you go to. And I don't want to make that assumption without you saying, yeah, I agree. Or like, no, I'm more tired than you might imagine. No, I think I'm a pretty high energy guy for the most part. I always tell my wife that I have a full tank. So no matter where we go, I have a full tank. It can be a party, it can be an event.

I have a full tank. And that's the Desmond you're going to see. Now, maybe two and a half, three hours later, that tank may be damn near empty. And then you're going to get a different Desmond. It's not going to be the full tank Desmond. So for the most part, when I walk into a room, I'm very optimistic. I'm very happy. I'm jovial. I'm very engaging. I'm very attentive. And yeah, so that's me in general. I've always been that way. So let me just ask about married life. How long have you been married? It's been over 20 years now. Yeah and um relationships are hard in the u.s 50 plus uh don't don't figure it out don't make it i should say and then some of those that actually do stay are not really happy

right you know they they're ball and chain and like do you get a hall pass and like that's not the kind of relationship i want to be in. So when you think about sustaining excellence in your life and you think about your life partner, how do you think about the importance of the relationship? And then what do you do to help create and co-create a great relationship? Yeah, that's a very, very good question. And it's been 21 years just to be exact. And I think that it's a lot of trial and error. You're growing together. You're developing together. You're maturing together. She's maturing. I'm maturing. You know what I mean? So we're still at the same time trying to figure out life. And you have to have a partner that you can communicate with and that you have to be a great listener. And your partner has to be a great listener too.

You have to be willing to listen to the other person. And yeah, you know, and then you got to be able to have some fun. Like, you know, they have to be your friend too. They have to, you have to be able to like be, go places with your partner and enjoy different settings, different environments, different activities with your partner. And you have to be willing to do it too. It can be something that you're not a big fan of, but your partner is. And you have to be willing to like, okay, go out there and enjoy it to the best of your ability and not fake it. Because if you fake it, then your partner is going to know. And that's going to be an issue. That's going to be a problem. So you go out there, you try to enjoy even moments that, you know, you may not be too keen on as much as you can for your partner. But it's work.

But I think it's, you know, it could be extremely rewarding. I love what you're saying because I think that we talk about, you know, I think you're probably interested in, I definitely am. And when we talk about high performance, I feel like somehow the most significant relationship in our lives gets left out of that equation. actually you had a life partner that was like right there stride by stride yeah obviously not in high school and college you know i don't know if you guys were together in the pros or not but like um certainly the transition to the success you're having now correct yeah so i just i think both of us maybe can i've been married a long time as well okay and um like i think I'm like 30 years. So yeah. So like, I just want to raise that emblem and say, invest, like really invest in that relationship. And yeah, you said 21 years. I'm just looking at your picture that was behind you. That was your Michigan number 21. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Yes, sir. Did you pick it? Is there any meaning to the number 21 for you? You know, so in high school, I was number 27. So, you know, obviously you want to try to continue the same, continue the tradition of wearing the same number that you wore in high school. You want to wear it in college. But when I went to college, there was an upperclassman who wore number 27. And so I was like, okay, well, I mean, from a distance, 21 could possibly look like 27, you know? So I went with 21. If you've got bad eyesight.

If I run fast enough, I mean, I don't know, you know, so you never told that story out loud. Did you? I don't think so. I don't think so. So that is really funny. Yeah. I love that. Okay. So you, you had a great Ted talk. Let's, let's round, um, let's round third base here. Like you had a great Ted talk. Let's round third base here. You had a great TED Talk. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah. And you talked about the five keys to success.

Right. All right. I don't want to put you on the spot. Do you remember them? Is it well metabolized or was this a script you read? No, no. I think for me, things evolve. So I think that what I felt then, and I believe when I gave the TED talk, it was right. It should have been right before COVID. So almost like maybe four years ago, four or five years ago.

And since COVID, a lot of things have changed. But I think my experience has always influenced what's important to me at that time. So those five keys, I think the foundation is still the same, but you may get to like maybe key number four, number five. It may change a little bit. Who knows? Yeah. So give me one that's really important to you in your life. Being humble, humility. Humility is very important. And when you think about humility, how do you practice it? by being the person who puts his ego to the side

and just listens to other people and not try to be the focal point no matter where I am. So I'm always trying to, I guess, suck in my ego, so to speak, or just my presence, so to speak, and listen to other people, let them be the focal point. And I think once you do that, you can see how much more engaging people are to you because it's almost like you allow yourself

to be somewhat vulnerable. I think we could stop on that. I think the world needs that. We are trying to get out. People are scared and anxious yes and um and and when we're in that state because there's a lot of change happening in the world there's like in the united states we got some real challenges that's right you know and our we're we're kind of pulling apart at the seams you know like it feels like there's an unzippering and and

like and globally we got some real problems and so um humility would be a really nice thing to be vulnerable you know to listen to not try to just get your point across or be seen but to actually listen and feel like i i think i feel like that's a really i don't want to cloud it with four right four others right now okay but i think if we just kind of hit that one and just let it simmer and maybe challenge the listener, like, how could you practice? Right. We're listening to one of the greats in sport. And he's saying, be humble.

Yes, sir. And then together we're saying, practice humility today. That's right. And then give yourself maybe a score at the end of the day. And then practice it tomorrow and give yourself a score. Like, how well was I vulnerable in listening? That would be a cool practice. I like that.

Yeah. All right. Good stuff. So let me ask you this. How did you get involved with Mack Weldon? What attracted you to them? Yeah, so they were brought to my attention by an investment firm called RX3 that invested in the company. And, you know, they were telling me about the clothing and telling me about Brian and, you know.

The CEO. Yeah, the CEO, Brian and the mission. And so I said, well, excuse me. I said, I would love to, you know, try to the apparel, the clothing out. And they sent me some clothes and man, it's really funny. Like sometimes how, I mean, I always heard like, if you buy a car, then you start to see that car everywhere. Like I always heard that. Right. So it's kind of the same thing with like clothing sometimes.

So I, I got the Mack Weldon underwear and let me say, that's where we start. So, you know, it's funny. It's the same for me. Like I, I, when I put on their underwear, I was like, oh, they did it differently. And it sounds weird to two men talking about wearing underwear, but like, but they did it right. They did it differently and it sounds weird to two men talking about wearing underwear but like but they did it right they did it they did it right i know and then i was like okay well that's the case let me let me let me put these these um these pants on i was like oh they fit right yep yep yeah yeah so we had the same experience and then, and then I got like the, the, the, the joggers, I got the hoodie and it's so comfortable. Like, you know, you look and feel sharp in their clothes. And we

talked about look good, feel good earlier, but it helps you feel like put together. Like I love wearing, you know, their clothes when I travel, I wish, listen, Doc, if I wasn't married, I would really, really try to push Brian to let me model their underwear. Now, the wife is not going to let that happen. I've modeled their shirts before. I was taking some really hot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The shirts, the joggers, some real cool pictures. But my thing is it all started with the underwear. That's so good. Yeah. I was wondering if you were going to go there, but okay.

Yeah, yeah. So, but I can't get the green light on that one. But anyway, yeah, it's just innovative fabrics, really soft, not too techie, very functional, very wearable, and breathable too. Doc, I live in Miami. So, you know, certain things on me can really feel suffocating. I do not have that problem with Mack Weldon. And obviously I travel a lot with game day. So no matter what environment, what climate I'm in, it's always very comfortable and very wearable and very versatile too. We're talking about a comfort that's unmatched.

Dude, I love it. And like all that being said, a couple of quick hits for you. Okay. So I'll just give you a thought. I'll give you, I'll give you a phrase and then you answer in one word or two words or something like that. Okay. It all comes down to?

Preparation. Living the good life is marked by? I want to say joy and happiness. Pressure comes from? Within. My vision is? Clear. Oh, yeah.

Who tells you no? Me. clear oh yeah who tells you no me all right i appreciate you desmond this is awesome thank you for sharing your approach to sustained excellence um to do it with your unique flair and joy and uh to bring the smile and the happiness and all that in there. Like, I really, I feel like I see you and I appreciate you. And so thank you. And, and, and really you're going to bring a new dimension to our community, you know, for those that are going to watch you on college game day throughout the football season. So like, yeah, I appreciate the opportunity. This has been a lot of fun. So I had to thank Brian. This has

been a, this has been great. So thank have to thank Brian. This has been great. So thank you. Great questions. Obviously, you really dialed into this space. So it's been a lot of fun for me too. All right, man. Appreciate you. Yes, sir.

Take care. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify.

We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're looking for even more insights, we have a newsletter we send out every Wednesday. Punch over to findingmastery.com slash newsletter to sign up. The show wouldn't be possible without our sponsors and we take our recommendations seriously. And the team is very thoughtful about making sure we love and endorse

every product you hear on the show. If you want to check out any of our sponsor offers you heard about in this episode, you can find those deals at findingmastery.com slash sponsors. And remember, no one does it alone. The door here at Finding Mastery is always open to those looking to explore the edges

and the reaches of their potential so that they can help others do the same. So join our community, share your favorite episode with a friend and let us know how we can continue to show up for you. others do the same. So join our community, share your favorite episode with a friend, and let us know how we can continue to show up for you. Lastly, as a quick reminder, information in this podcast and from any material on the Finding Mastery website and social channels is for information purposes only. If you're looking for meaningful support, which we all need, one of the best things you can do is to talk to a licensed professional.

So seek assistance from your healthcare providers. Again, a sincere thank you for listening. Until next episode, be well, think well, keep exploring.