Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Dr Joe Dispenza on Using The Power of Your Mind To Heal

Episode Date: December 11, 2024

Can transforming thoughts and beliefs lead to measurable changes in your health and wellbeing?I’m thrilled to share this week’s conversation with Dr Joe Dispenza. Dr Joe is a New York Times best-selling author, researcher, lecturer, and corporate consultant, known for his transformative teachings on the power of the mind to heal and shape reality. Since 2010, Dr Joe has partnered with renowned scientists and universities – including University of California San Diego, Harvard University, Stanford University, and others – to perform extensive research on the effects of meditation on the brain and body.Inspired by the latest findings in neuroscience, psychoneuroimmunology, epigenetics, and quantum physics, Dr Joe teaches people worldwide to rewire their brains, break free from limiting patterns, and unlock their potential – all of which (and more) is showcased in his most recent film, SOURCE - It's Within You.If you’re curious about how to harness the mind’s power to alter your experience and achieve greater fulfillment, this conversation is one you’re going to want to listen deeply to._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Finding Mastery is brought to you by Remarkable. In a world that's full of distractions, focused thinking is becoming a rare skill and a massive competitive advantage. That's why I've been using the Remarkable Paper Pro, a digital notebook designed to help you think clearly and work deliberately. It's not another device filled with notifications or apps.

It's intentionally built for deep work. So there's no social media, no email, no noise. The writing experience, it feels just like pen on paper. I love it. And it has the intelligence of digital tools like converting your handwriting to text, organizing your notes, tagging files, and using productivity templates

to help you be more effective. It is sleek, minimal. It's incredibly lightweight. It feels really good. I take it with me anywhere from meetings to travel without missing a beat. What I love most is that it doesn't try to do everything. It just helps me do one very important thing really well,

stay present and engaged with my thinking and writing. If you wanna slow down, if you wanna work smarter, I highly encourage you to check them out. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and grab your paper pro today. Can transforming thoughts and beliefs lead to measurable changes in your health and wellbeing? Welcome back, or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast,

where we dive into the minds of the world's greatest thinkers and doers. I am your host, Dr. Michael Gervais, by trade and training a high-performance psychologist. This week's conversation is with Dr. Joe Dispenza. Joe is a best-selling author and educator known for his transformative teachings on the power of the mind to heal and shape reality. He teaches people worldwide to rewire their brains, to break free from limiting patterns, and to unlock their potential. If you're curious about how to harness the mind's power to alter your experience and

achieve greater fulfillment, this conversation is one you're going to want to listen to. And a quick note, if you find value in these conversations, I'd love for you to take a brief moment to leave us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening. Your feedback is essential to help us reach more people and grow this incredible community. So with that, let's jump right into this week's conversation with Dr. Joe Dispenza. Joe, I've been looking forward to this conversation for a long time and we've got a mutual friend, Peter Park. Yes. And you know, he, he has trained the best of the best of the best physical training and he's, he's helped me in immense ways, both physically, but just as a friend. And so when he recommended, so he pulled me aside and he was like, Mike, do you know Joe DiSvenza?

And I said, no. And he says, what do you think of him? And I said, well, I don't know enough, but what I've followed along is like really compelling. And he says, I think you guys got to meet. I said, oh, I'd love to. And so that's how this, that's how this conversation started. And, you know, what is your relationship with Peter? Like, well, Peter is an anomaly. First of all, I mean, he talked about a mindset of a champion.

I think he really has really some innate, innate talent around that. And then a really strong developed skill set around it. So COVID happened. I was training in one gym. They closed all the gyms. And Peter was a friend. I knew, I knew him well enough, but never trained with him. And he, I just said, can I just use your gym, you know, when no one's there. And so I got to know him a little bit more intimately. And, and then he asked me if I wanted to be trained by him. And then I was like, sure, I train now with his 25 year old son. So he also like Peter also share with me, the reason I think this is an interesting way to start our conversation is because mutual friend that we both care about. And he represents something to both of us and so i was asking him like how do you know joe and he says well let me let me tell

you and give you an example he says i'll say i'll mention something about one of my sons and then next thing i know i hear from my son that joe calls him and you know it's like hey how you doing what's going on tell me really what okay what is really happening for you whatever the the conversation is but you're in there in a way that you're caring about your friend's son which makes sense but but on top of all of the other things that you're doing he's blown away by it and so for somebody with that type of mindset peter who the listener doesn't know, is incredibly intense, incredibly skilled, to your point earlier, and then has a way of building relationships where you're compelled

to want to be your very best around him. And it's a special art that he has and a pretty cool science. And so coming from him about how much you care, how much you do, and that you have designed a life that is giving to others. And you built a business along the way. So I'm really interested in not only the science and the art of your science, but also how you've designed your life. I think both are fascinating to me. But I would like to start with the science of it. Yeah. And you opened up your book, Supernatural, with, maybe I'll insert the quote in full because I don't have it memorized here. But you opened it up with this idea that I need to share. I need to tell what I've been doing or what I've seen or what I've experienced,

even at the risk of people thinking that i'm a wild one dangerous a quack i'm on the fringe and this likely is not going to be accepted you didn't use though any of those words but that was the risk that you decided to take um thank you for the question first of all i never planned on doing any of this, to be really straight and really honest. I had my own personal injury. I got run over by a truck in a triathlon, broke six vertebrae in my spine. Typical surgery is Harrington rod surgery. I was young. I was in my 20s. I was athletic. I had a martial arts studio, a yoga studio. I was training for, you know, a lot of different races. And I went from 100 miles an hour to face down and in trouble. And I couldn't imagine living my life on addictive medications with Harrington rods from the base of my neck to the base of my spine. It was a full, you know, six compression fractures is a lot.

So I had bone fragments on the cord, and I had the neural arch broken. So I was in a lot of trouble. So I figured, I might as well see if my mind can influence my body. This was at age 20-something? 24, yeah. And it worked.

It really worked for me. And when you go through that kind of initiation, you can't go back to business as usual. And it was a dark night of the soul for me during that time because I couldn't get my mind to do what I wanted it to do. Because I think when you're faced with crisis like that, we always focus on what we don't want to have happen instead of what we do want to have happen. So turning that battleship around for me as a 24-year-old kid was an enormous effort because I couldn't keep my mind on the task. So when I finally was able to get back on my feet and return back to my life, I decided from that point that it would be good to study other people that may have had a spontaneous remission from disease, were treating conventionally or unconventionally. They were staying the same and getting worse, and all of a sudden they were getting better.

So I traveled around the world. I traveled to 17 different countries, interviewed a lot of people. At age 28 now? Before you're 30. Let's see. I was probably 29. Okay. So two things. You said it 29. Okay. So two things.

You said it worked. Yeah. So I do want to understand what worked and how it worked. So I know we'll unfold that as we go. But in a shorthand for the listener who's unfamiliar with this part of your journey. Yeah. So I wanted to see if my mind could influence my body. And I decided two things.

I thought, God, there's an innate intelligence within us that's giving us life. It's keeping our heart beating, digesting our food, all the way down to the cellular level, organizing trillions of functions in a cell every second, correcting for mutations in the DNA. So I had a respect for that innate intelligence. And I thought, well, it can heal to a certain point. And it does. And it does. It is healing.

It's trying its very best. With six compression fractures, I thought, this has got to be next level now. This has got to be next level. So I had to weigh what I knew against what I didn't know. And so for me, I thought, God, if I could make contact with this intelligence and give it a plan, give it a directive, give it some orders, give it a template, and if I could do it really well, once I've had that vision in my mind super clear, I know that I can't heal it. I'm going to surrender that vision to a greater mind and see if it could begin to work with me.

So you sound like a mystic. You sound like a spiritualist at this point, somebody who's a devotee to a religion that says, I'm going to turn over my injury to God. I'm going to turn over my life experiences to God. Yeah, I think that's a simplistic version because what I wanted to do is I wanted to influence it and see if I could take it to the next level. Because I knew that, well, you know, the compression fractures could heal but I would lose bone height I still have fragments on my cord I had motor function problems I had sensory function problems I had an enormous amount of pain so this was kind of next level for me and I think anytime you go against convention whether it's social convention scientific convention religious

convention anytime you go against the current belief systems, you're always considered foolhardy or insane, right? I mean, you're nuts. The four opinions I had from four surgeons, they all thought I hit my head. They were like, what are you thinking here? But if you pull it off. But you did have surgery. No.

No, I never had the surgery. Oh, you buried the lead there. You didn't have surgery. No. No, I never had the surgery. Oh, you buried the lead there. You didn't have surgery. You didn't. No, I decided not to. I went against. I went against. That's where the medical institution would say, what are you doing?

Yeah, they were very upset with me. In 1986, you didn't do that. Like I was living in San Diego. You just didn't do that like I was living in San Diego you just didn't do that and and I just figured god um if I have the Harrington rod surgery I'm not going to be the same guy I won't be able to do I won't I won't be able to do anything like I you know I was doing and so I was willing to trust in in that process I figured if it didn't work I'm going to wind up with surgery anyway so I might as well roll the dice. And so number one was make contact with that intelligence. I'm

not going anywhere. I'm not doing anything. I'm laying face down. And the second thing was I'm not going to let any thought slip by my awareness unnoticed by me. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true. Meaningful relationships are at the center of sustained success. And building those relationships, it takes more than effort. It takes a real caring about your people. It takes the right tools, the right information at the right time. And that's where LinkedIn Sales Navigator can come in. It's a tool designed specifically for thoughtful sales

professionals, helping you find the right people that are ready to engage, track key account changes, and connect with key decision makers more effectively. It surfaces real-time signals, like when someone changes jobs or when an account becomes high priority, so that you can reach out at exactly the right moment with context and thoroughness that builds trust. It also helps tap into your own network more strategically, showing you who you already know that can help you open doors or make a warm introduction. In other words, it's not about more outreach. It's about smarter, more human outreach. And that's something here at Finding Mastery that our team lives and breathes by. If you're ready to start building stronger relationships that actually convert, try LinkedIn Sales Navigator for free for 60 days at linkedin.com slash deal. That's linkedin.com slash deal for

two full months for free. Terms and conditions apply. Finding Mastery is brought to you by David Protein. I'm pretty intentional about what I eat and the majority of my nutrition comes from whole foods. And when I'm traveling or in between meals on a demanding day, certainly, I need something quick that will support the way that I feel and think and perform. And that's why I've been leaning on David Protein Bars. And so has the team here at Finding Mastery. In fact, our GM, Stuart, he loves them so much. I just want to kind of quickly put him on the spot. Stuart, I know you're listening. I think you might be the reason that we're running out of these bars so quickly. They're incredible, Mike. I love them. One a day, one a day.

What do you mean one a day? There's way more than that happening here. Don't tell. Okay. All right. Look, they're incredibly simple. They're effective. 28 grams of protein, just 150 calories and zero grams of sugar. It's rare to find something that fits so conveniently into a performance-based lifestyle and actually tastes good. Dr. Peter Attia, someone who's been on the show, it's a great episode, by the way, is also their chief science officer. So I know they've done their due diligence in that category. My favorite flavor right now is the chocolate chip cookie dough.

And a few of our teammates here at Finding Mastery have been loving the fudge brownie and peanut butter. I know, Stuart, you're still listening here. So getting enough protein matters. And that can't be understated, not just for strength, but for energy and focus, recovery, for longevity. And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're

trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. So mystic, mystical means unknown. That's what the word means. So I was willing to trust if this could work. Now, a little background. I had studied hypnosis a lot. I saw the power the the subconscious mind I knew I saw you know amazing things and then I did have this kind of crazy moment where I was leaving for graduate school and my best friend's father gave me a book Autobiography of a Yogi. And I was reading this book and I was like, God, if that is actually the truth,

then I'm unaware of a lot. And I read that book and scrutinized it and threw it across the room and wrestled with it. But I had kind of this kind of idea that I was willing to take that risk because I had the time I went from a hundred miles an hour in my life to laying face down so I knew enough about the spine I knew enough about the body and in first six and a half weeks was misery it was it was really really a dark night of the soul

because I could not I I was I was wrestling with my own belief and my own self-doubt and my inability to be able to control my mind when you're out of balance. So the first six and a half weeks, it took me three hours to go through that inward process. And then when I was done, I wasn't satisfied. But after that six and a half weeks, what took me three hours, three and a half sometimes four hours to do because the moment I started thinking should I sell my practice, should I sell my home, I'm going to be living in a wheelchair, the moment I was, my mind left the present moment and I went off task. I'd start all over again. I'd start over.

So it was a very, very deliberate but very, very difficult process because if you get frustrated, it's going to get worse. So I had to move through all this muck. In six and a half weeks, all of a sudden something clicked. It was like I hit a golf ball right in the sweet spot. I hit a tennis ball just right something clicked for me and all of a sudden from that point forward it got easier and and what took me three and a half hours three hours to I was doing in much less time and I didn't know it at the time but I was really mastering the ability to pay attention and to be present because every time you you catch yourself defaulting and you're going unconscious

the only way you become conscious is you catch yourself going unconscious and you become conscious again that's the moment to celebrate right that's and most people say well I can't do it and I was doing that but really that's a victory yeah that's the only way yes that you're actually going to stop yourself from going unconscious so I was pruning connections and I was refiring rewiring new connections and I started developing kind of a new mind and and at that moment Michael I noticed like the dramatic reduction in my pain. And I was getting sensory feeling back and motor feeling, and then my toes, and I was just like, okay, whatever you're doing is working, so keep doing it.

And your belief at that point goes from here to here, right? It just catapults because you're seeing the effect of you would cause, right? So for me, I was back on my feet in 10 and a half weeks they wanted me put me in this huge body cast I was I was better you know I was done so I couldn't go back to business as usual because I was initiated I have a very scientific mind so I just kind of sold everything and left and went to the northwest and started over again and I wanted to take some time for myself and ask the big questions if that truly happened how did that happen and is there anybody else that is anybody has that happened to anybody else so

I had to start studying epigenetics and neuroplasticity and psychoneuroimmunology and electromagnetism and quantum physics. And it just was this kind of exploration for me. And I started getting closer to the understanding. And then when I started interviewing people that had spontaneous remissions from diseases that were treating conventionally or unconventionally, staying the same, and all of a sudden got better. Once I studied and found the commonalities amongst these people and it was really about the mind.

It was really about breaking the habit of being themselves, their old self, and reinventing a new self. The other thing was that in their inward process of really deciding who they no longer wanted to be, like if I really could live my life again and live again, how would I live differently? Do I really want to be an attorney? I hate my job. I don't want to be an attorney.

I want to be an artist, right? So you see these people make the transition by choice to stop being one person and start being another person. And in their inward process of thinking about how they do want to think, how they do want to act, how they do want to feel in their new life, they had long moments where they lost track of space and time. Their inward experience became more real than their outer experience. And it caused me to spend a lot of time studying the frontal lobe, which is kind of the workshop of the brain. That's where we focus, where we have intention.

That's where we have attention. That's where we have free will. We restrain our behaviors. Judgment. We vent. We speculate. It's where we focus, where we have intention. So we have attentions, where we have free will, we restrain our behaviors, you know, judgment, we vent, we speculate, it's the creative center, right? And so, and then that fourth thing was that they believe there was an intelligence that was giving them life that they would trust and surrender to. What does that mean? Let's just stay on that idea for a minute. An intelligence, because you've mentioned a few times like making contact with intelligence. Well, whatever that consciousness is that's giving us life,

that's within us, that's happening in kind of in, I'll say scientifically, the autonomic nervous system, the limbic brain, right, is the seat of all of those biological functions that keeps us in homeostasis and balance, right? The neocortex, the thinking brain, is the analytical mind. And a lot of times, that's what kind of gets us in trouble, right? So they had a belief, and independent of religion, that there was some intelligence that was giving them life that could help them in their healing process. Now, there was a spectrum involved in that, but the similarity was that it was within them. So the intelligence is within.

Within. So for somebody who might be a spiritualist or follow Christian doctrine, God is within. Yes. If that is the word a person would want to use, yeah. So there came a period of time where I was in a documentary, and the documentary became really popular, and people started asking, well, how do you do it? And I think this is a time in history where it's not enough to know i think it's a time in history to know how right so i thought okay i studied the all these things went back to school and studied

neuroscience and just got really into it and and and then i was like okay if it worked on these sick people uh let's see if we can reproduce an outcome and so for the first couple years we didn't really see much. It was doing these one-day courses and two-day courses and people were feeling better at the end of the weekend, but no real big changes. Then all of a sudden, it just started happening. We started seeing the most amazing changes

in people's health that really challenged my belief. And so when we started seeing people have remissions from very serious stage four cancers and Parkinson's disease and MS and ALS and spinal cord injuries and all kinds of crazy things's that's when I knew it was time to measure and so we organized and a group of scientists and now I work with University of California San Diego and so when I started seeing the outcomes Michael and they were unbelievable they were literally unbelievable to me like I was shaking my head like I cannot believe what i'm seeing and i knew that when a person has an inward experience where they're in a certain health condition and then after

there we use meditation as and i will talk about that demystifying meditation in a way that allows a person to learn how to make an inward experience really, really real. And so I knew that when a person got up out of a wheelchair with MS, right in front of me, like something was happening in there. Something was happening inside of them that was very profound and very real, right? And it was an experience, right? So we organized, we've got over 20,000 brain scans. We have fMRI scans. We've measured thousands and thousands of HRV measurements.

We've measured gene expression. We've measured microbiome. We've measured 2,882 metabolites in blood. We've measured microbiome. We've measured 2,882 metabolites in blood. We've measured immune regulation. We've measured tears. We've measured breast milk. We've measured everything you can possibly imagine. And the idea is what happens when a person completely immerses themselves in a community that's interested in change and transformation.

And that's what we teach. We teach the process of change. We use meditation not to heal. We use meditation to change. When you change, you heal, right? So the science has been so compelling because you can't call it pseudoscience anymore. The data is so profound that it shows that, as an example, the studies that we've done demonstrate that the human nervous system manufactures a pharmacy of

chemicals that works sometimes better than any drug. And it's within you, right? Interleukin, you know... All kinds of amazing things yeah and is it possible then to up regulate genes for health and down regulate the genes for disease and if you teach people in a very simple way the philosophy the theory the information the knowledge and they can learn that information learning is making new connections in the brain, as you know, but the research also shows that if you don't review it, if you don't repeat it, if you don't think about it over and over again, those circuits prune apart within hours or days.

So we set up these large events with thousands of people from all over the world, and the information is so tantamount for them because it's what they're going to do with it. They've got to do something with it. So when they learn the information then they have to teach it back to the person next to them. They have to be able to explain it. And if they can't explain it, it's not wired in their brains.

As they remind themselves what they learned, they're reproducing that same level of mind. Nerve cells that fire together wire together and the more you understand what you're doing And the more you understand why you're doing it the how gets easier because you can assign meaning to the task And when you assign meaning to the task you turn on that prefrontal cortex and it wants an outcome Right, so they're installing the neurological hardware in their brain in preparation for the event So if you can set up the conditions in the environment and give people the proper Instructions and they get their behaviors to match their intentions their actions equal to their thoughts I get their mind and body working together and initiate that knowledge

They should have an experience right and the experience then enriches the circuitry in the brain But the end product of the experience is called an emotion. And then when you feel unlimited or you feel grateful or you feel empowered, now you're teaching your body chemically to understand what your mind has intellectually understood. So the information is no longer in the brain, now the information's in the body, right? So the person's embodying the truth of that philosophy. So this is kind of the journey what we do. So then we're measuring what's taking place inwardly. Now if you can go for seven days and keep reproducing the experience neurologically and chemically, neurochemically, you're conditioning the mind and body to begin

to work as one. And when the body now knows how to do it better than the mind, now it's implicit, it's innate, it's automatic, it's easy, it's familiar. We've become that knowledge, right? And so the person's in a different state of being. So we have to go from philosopher to initiate to master, from knowledge to experience to wisdom, from mind to body to soul, from the thinking to doing to being, learning with your head, applying with your hands, knowing it by heart. And we discovered that it's the overcoming process that is the becoming process because 95% of who we are by the time we're in the middle of our life are set of memorized hardwired attitudes, beliefs,

and perceptions, you know, the automatic and unconscious habits and behaviors and reflexive emotional responses. So it's that unlearning process, that 95% of being unconscious, getting conscious. And if a person's able to do that, if they're able to reconstruct and reinvent a new way of thinking, a new way of behaving, a new way of feeling, will it be reflected in their biology? And we've discovered that the majority of people that go through a week-long event, it's not like a small percentage, there's a community effect that's taking place. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentus. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits,

or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday, what you put in your body matters. And that's why I trust Momentous. From the moment I sat down with Jeff Byers, their co-founder and CEO, I could tell this was not your average supplement company. And I was immediately drawn to their mission, helping people achieve performance for life. And to do that, they developed what they call the Momentus Standard. Every product is formulated with top experts and every batch is third-party tested, NSF certified for sport or informed sport. So you know exactly what you're getting. Personally, I'm anchored by what they call the Momentus 3, protein, creatine, and omega-3. And together, these foundational nutrients support muscle

recovery, brain function, and long-term energy. They're part of my daily routine. And if you're ready to fuel your brain and body with the best, Momentus has a great new offer just for our community right here. Use the code F Mastery for 35% off your first subscription order at LiveMomentous.com. Again, that's L-I-V-E Momentous, M-O-M-E-N-T-O-U-S, LiveMomentous.com and use the code Finding Mastery for 35% off your first subscription order. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Felix Grey. I spent a lot of time thinking about how we can create the conditions for high performance. How do we protect our ability to focus, to recover, to be present?

And one of the biggest challenges we face today is our sheer amount of screen time. It messes with our sleep, our clarity, even our mood. And that's why I've been using Felix Grey glasses. What I appreciate most about Felix Grey is that they're just not another wellness product. They're rooted in real science. Developed alongside leading researchers and ophthalmologists, they've demonstrated these types of glasses boost melatonin, help you fall asleep faster, and hit deeper stages of rest. When I'm on the road and bouncing around between time zones, slipping on my Felix Grays in the evening, it's a simple way to cue my body just to wind down. And when I'm locked into deep work, they also help me stay focused for longer

without digital fatigue creeping in. Plus, they look great. Clean, clear, no funky color distortion, just good design, great science. And if you're ready to feel the difference for yourself, Felix Gray is offering all Finding Mastery listeners 20% off. Just head to FelixGray.com and use the code FindingMastery20 at checkout. Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y.com and use the code findingmastery20 at phoenixgray.com for 20% off. I think the reason people change is because of pain. And I don't think it comes from inspiration. I think it comes from a position that I am sick and tired of being sick and tired.

And that's pulled right out of an AA pamphlet somewhere. But when there's enough pain that a person feels that they say, it's got to be different, I can do different, that there's a better way, can you help? Or can I go inward and figure out a better way? I don't think we do anything alone. So I think that you're onto something really powerful about doing it together. But this idea that people change because of pain, I don't know if you agree with it or not.

I do. I do. I think when we're brought to our lowest denominator, whether it's crisis, disease, diagnosis, loss, betrayal, it doesn't matter. You reach this lowest denominator where nothing is making that feeling go away. No vacation, no TV show, no friend, where that feeling is constant. The alcohol, the drugs, the numbing, it's not working anymore. Nothing is making that feeling go away. And I think this is a really important moment for people because they don't feel like themselves. Nothing in their environment, in their outer world, is making this feeling go away. And this is where they start, for the first time, observing themselves, that idea of metacognition. They feel so different

than the way they normally feel that they can view themselves through the eyes of someone else. This is the moment where they can all of a sudden go, oh my god, look at the way you've been thinking. You've been saying, I can't, it's too hard, I hate this person. Those thoughts have consequences. You can say, oh my god, you've been complaining, blaming, you've been a victim, you've been judging, making excuses feeling sorry for yourself oh my god look at you like it's the it's that lighting the match in the dark place and then you can say oh my god i i live the majority of my life in hatred and anger and fear oh my god that's not loving to me but but no one is going to tell no one you're not going to listen to anybody when they tell you that you're going to bump them off right but

this is kind of when the soul kind of kind of kind of give you a little nudge like this is your moment right and so and you're doing this by helping them observe themselves but more specifically helping them observe the intimate thoughts that they're having in said moment yeah so like or the emotional experience yeah so i'm curious. We see that the brain changes the most. When you get beyond, I can't. I'm too tired. I don't feel like it. I want to quit. This is too hard. I'll never make it. When you get beyond, like people who are curious, what's on the other side of that thought? They're stepping into the unknown. The person who says, oh my God, I want to be happy, why am I spending the majority of my day complaining?

But complaining is not going to make me happy, it's going to make me unhappy. And then, oh my God, this emotion that I live by every day, emotions are just a chemical record of the past, right? So if I'm living... What does that mean, a chemical record of the past? Because I have emotions in the present moment. Yeah, you can. All I'm saying is What does that mean, a chemical record of the past? Because I have emotions in the present moment. Yeah, you can. All I'm saying is when a person's...

Let's pick an emotion. Frustration. Frustration. Pretty easy. Frustration is a great one. A person feels frustration because of an experience that happens or has a series of experiences that happen in their life. The stronger the emotion that we have to some experience in our life,

the more altered we are inside of us. The disruption in our chemical continuity causes the brain to freeze a frame and take a snapshot or a series of snapshots, and that's called the long-term memory. So the memory is embossed in the brain, right? And the chemical that's creating it. If this thing happens again, something like this happens again. Yeah.

So if it happens a few times and then you review the event, you keep remembering the event, you're producing the same chemistry in the brain and body as if the event was occurring. And the body is so objective. It's the unconscious mind that it does not know the difference between the real life experience that's creating that emotion and the emotion that person's fabricating by memory alone to the body, it's exactly the same. So the body's reliving the trauma 50 to 100 times a day. So it's a thought and a feeling, it's an image and an emotion or a memory and emotion, it's

a stimulus and response and you're conditioning the body, become the mind of that emotion. And so now the body, the servant, is now the master. So the body has learned it and it's automatic. And so you're sweeping your environment just to look for something to actually cause you to feel frustrated. So the hormones of stress become highly addictive. And it's entirely possible that people use the problems and conditions in their life to reaffirm their addiction to frustration, to reaffirm their addiction to that emotion. So they don't know they're doing that consciously,

but they're becoming addicted to the life they don't even like. I have a quote here that I wrote down. I wanted to play back to you and talk about it, which you just said it. People are emotionally addicted to a life they don't want. I'm loosely paraphrasing. But that idea, when I read that in your writings, I thought you're really onto something important. And so I think what you're suggesting is that

if the mind and brain, not really separate, but let's separate them for a moment. The brain is the hardware and the mind is the software. It breaks down quickly. But if they're doing their job, they're trying to keep you alive. They're sweeping the environment to your language, scanning for all the reasons that a threat could disrupt or end their life. And so I think what you're saying in this idea is that that alertness, there's a chemistry that is pretty addicting to that. It feels good.

It's a beta brainwave. It's essential for survival. And you're saying we like that so much that we'll just keep scanning to find the dangers to find the reasons that things could go wrong yeah reasons i could should be frustrated and then because of that i'm now exhausted i'm now poisoning my system yeah so so let's just talk about that let. Let's unpack that a little bit because I think... I saw the corners of your eyes light up when I said that. Well, because living in stress is living in survival, right? And stress is when your brain

and body are knocked out of homeostasis. Stress response is what the body innately does to return itself back to order, okay? Well, all biological organisms can tolerate short-term stress. A zebra gets chased by the lion and outruns the lion. It goes back to grazing and eating and it goes back into balance, right? So all organisms can do that. You get cut off on the freeway, you jam on the brakes, and then you're over it, right, for most people. But when you turn on the stress response and you can't turn it off,

now you're headed for disease because no organism can live in emergency mode for that extended period of time. Now, human beings, because of the size of the frontal lobe, we can turn on the stress response just by thought alone. That's the problem. That's the trick. Yeah, so if you're forecasting some future worst-case scenario based on the past, and you're actually imagining that future unfolding, your body as the objective mind begins to feel the emotion of that future before it happens.

Now you're conditioning your body to become the mind of anxiety, the mind of fear, right? And again, thought and feeling, image, emotion, stimulus, response. The body is being conditioned into fear. Okay, so now you say to that person, why are you this way? And they'll say, I am this way because of these events that have happened to me 10 years ago. What they're really saying is I had an event that's changed me biologically, and I have not been able to change since. Okay, so if you can turn on the stress response just by thought alone

and those chemicals, hormones of stress are addictive, the arousal, you can become addicted to your own thoughts. And this is why it's hard to change. Well, if the long-term effects of the hormones of stress push the genetic buttons and create disease, that's a fact. And you can turn on the stress response just by thought alone. Your thoughts can make you sick. All right, now that's the ultimate mind-body connection. So when you tell a person that and they go, oh my God, if my, then you ask them if your thoughts can make you sick, is it possible that your thoughts can make you well?

And so we did a study where we just took people and we said, trade frustration, trade impatience, trade resentment for a heart-centered emotion let's hook you up to an hrv and let's have you practice and get really good at feeling appreciation gratitude kindness care let's get you in that state is it possible then that you can up regulate the proteins for your immune system and down regulate the secretion of cortisol. And the amount of immunoglobulin A, which is a really important, natural flu shot for the body,

went up 50% in the participants. So the body actually is believing it's living in an environment that's nurturing, right? And so it could be that immediate. Now, what- This is a loving-kindness meditation or a heart-centered meditation? Heart-centered meditation, yeah.

15 minutes, 15 minutes a day, twice a day, or three meditation? Heart-centered meditation, yeah. 15 minutes. 15 minutes a day, twice a day, or three times a day for three days. That's it. That's how fast it can happen. Now, the caveat behind this is that just like breaking any addiction, you're going to go through a lot of withdrawals because the body is going to be craving the chemical, right? So we've discovered, again,

when a person is sitting in a meditation and they're coming up against their frustration, they're coming up against their resentment, they're coming up against their impatience, instead of saying, I can't meditate, I'm too busy, I'm going to get on my cell phone, I have too many things to do, nobody else in the herd or the flock or the tribe is doing what he doing sitting, right?

So a person, we're not asking them to white knuckle it. We're giving them something to do. We're teaching them how to lower the volume to that emotion, settle the body back down as the mind, and teach them what to do with that. So the act of doing that, breaking the the inhibition process breaking the stimulus and response The body's craving 20 years or 10 years of frustration more stimulus more stimulus Yeah, more so what it does is it starts to send images to the brain like Think of the time in your life that you know, and it's it's trying to reproduce that chemical

So this takes an enormous amount of energy, an enormous amount of awareness to be able to free the body from the chains of the past. And yet, once you learn how to do it, it's tedious in the beginning. If the person truly can get beyond their addiction to that emotion, the absence of that emotional addiction is called joy. The body's no

longer tormented. So the side effect... That's interesting framing, that the absence. Yeah, the side effect of that is there's a complete change in the body's physiology. So would you say that that is your position, that that is our default? I think it's one of the major defaults. Joy. No, no, no. I think the default to frustration is automatic right you just need to see a person or circumstance have a thought and seamlessly you're feeling the emotion from your past and you're behaving like you're in your past and you're believing everything that goes along with your past what is the natural state of the human is it is it joy or is there a natural

state that you say no it's not it's not like there's a default to happiness or joy or is there a natural state that you say, no, it's not like there's a default to happiness or joy or peace. It's not that simple, but we can cultivate specific actions and thought patterns to increase the amount of joy. I think the majority of time people are on alert. They're in high beta brainwave states. They're vigilant. They're ready.

When we're living in stress and we're living in survival, all of our attention is on our environment. That's where the danger is. All of our attention is on our body because we're getting the rush of chemistry and adrenaline. And all of our attention is on time. How much time is we going to make make this go away right and so so when you i think when you break free from the state of survival which pretty much is about 70 of the time for most people so is the world dangerous and hostile or is it safe for you for me um it's like a fundamental decision to make the world is either dangerous or safe yeah Yeah, for the most part, I feel like it's

a safe place. I think when you're living in survival, I think you'll always perceive it as a dangerous place. But I think the opposite side of that, and this is kind of what we've discovered, I think when you live in something other than survival, you live in a state of creation. And I think a state of creation is when energy naturally moves into the heart, and the heart is the creative center. When you're living in stress and you're living in survival, your brain is completely incoherent because you're trying to control and predict everyone and everything in your life.

So stress is created by the loss of control, the perception that something's going to get worse or something that you can't predict, right? So the alarm system switches on. So the next thing you start doing is you try to control and predict everything in your life. Well, every person, every object, everything, every place is mapped neurologically in your brain. You've got a neurological network for your wife, for your husband, for your kids, for your dog, for where you live, where you work, your phone. So as we shift our attention

to each one of these different elements, like a lightning storm in the clouds in that aroused high beta state, the different compartments of the brain begin to modulate and they begin to fire out of order. If you measure that on the brain, it's waves that are out of order and they cancel each other out

and the brain is incoherent, we're incoherent. Same thing happens in the heart. You're stepping on the gas and you're stepping on the brake. You're in a Zoom meeting, someone's talking and you're thinking about, oh my God, your emotional response is not the best. But you're not running, you're not fighting, you're not hiding, you're sitting there, right?

So you're stepping on the gas and the brake and the heart starts beating very much out of order. It becomes very incoherent. Same thing, the energy in the heart goes down. You can't trust. It's not a time to communicate. You know the story. So we've discovered that where you place your attention

is where you place your energy. We teach people then, if you can place your attention on your heart, slow your breathing down, you're slowing your brainwaves down. And teach them how to work with their body and convert from the sympathetic nervous system to the parasympathetic nervous system and get their body in that state. It takes practice. It takes a lot of work. In the beginning, you're working with the animal. And the animal's juiced up. And it's ready to go, and you gotta teach it that the threat,

the danger is over, and it's not very trusting in the beginning. So slow your breathing down, slow your brainwaves down, convert over, put your attention on your heart, and let's practice feeling some heart-centered, some elevated emotions. If a person can sustain that state, we'll see their heart get very coherent.

When it gets coherent, energy builds. And if they can sustain it, something really beautiful happens. It's almost like the heart informs the brain that the trauma is over and it resets the baseline for the past event where the emotion is attached to. And we've seen this numerous times. It tells the amygdala it's over, like the trauma's over. And then all of a sudden, the body resets and the brain resets. And the person, all of a sudden, like grabbing a big sheet and going like this, they go right out of beta, high beta, and they go right into alpha, coherent alpha.

And the heart's telling the brain, get creative. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised me the most is how much it actually helps regulate temperature. I tend to run warm at night and these sheets have helped me sleep cooler and more consistently, which has made a meaningful difference in how I show up the next day for myself, my family, and our team here at

Finding Mastery. It's become part of my nightly routine. Throw on their lounge pants or pajamas, crawl into bed under their sheets, and my nervous system starts to settle. They also offer a 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty on all of their bedding, which tells me, tells you, that they believe in the long-term value of what they're creating.

If you're ready to upgrade your rest and turn your bed into a better recovery zone, use the code FINDINGMASTERY for 40% off at CozyEarth.com. That's a great discount for our community. Again, the code is FINDINGMASTERY for 40% off at CozyEarth.com. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Caldera Lab. I believe that the way we do small things in life is how we do all things. And for me, that includes how I take care of my body. I've been using Caldera Lab for years now. And what keeps me coming back, it's really simple. Their products are simple.

And they reflect the kind of intentional living that I want to build into every part of my day. And they make my morning routine really easy. They've got some great new products I think you'll be interested in. A shampoo, conditioner, and a hair serum. With Caldera Lab, it's not about adding more. It's about choosing better. And when your day demands clarity and energy and presence, the way you prepare for it matters. If you're looking for high quality personal care products that elevate your routine without complicating it, I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash finding mastery and use the code finding

mastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash finding mastery. The other thing we discovered, Mike, is that when you're pressed like that, we tend to over-focus. We tend to narrow our focus on the cause of the problem. Like any of us who have been under stress know that, you know, for the most part, you're obsessing, you're ruminating, you're over-focused on some thing. And we discovered that when you do that, you actually make your brain worse 100% of the time, like as you're analyzing your life within that disturbing emotion. That emotion is a record of the past and you're driving it into higher and higher beta, right? So we thought, oh my God, what if we do the opposite?

What if we go from this kind of narrow focus on everything physical, everything material, everything known, to broadening and opening our focus and putting it on nothing? And the act of sensing space, we discovered, when you're sensing, you're not analyzing and you're not thinking. And the cortex is the analytical mind. When you're sensing, you're not analyzing and you're not thinking. The cortex is the analytical mind. So as you're sensing space and you're no longer analyzing and thinking, you're no longer activating those different neurological networks in the brain. And all of a sudden, your brain goes from beta to alpha, but not any kind of alpha.

Those different compartments of the brain that have been modulated and compartmentalized, they begin to unify. They begin to synchronize. And what sinks in the brain, sinks in the brain, right? And that's a coherence. So now the brain starts getting more orderly and you start feeling more like yourself. So the breathing is a great way to get the body

to convert from sympathetic to parasympathetic. But the open and broadened focus and sensing nothing in space is actually what allows us to get beyond our analytical mind and what separates our conscious mind from our subconscious mind is our analytical mind. Now you're opening the door and getting into the operating system

where you can actually rewrite a program and rehearse a new script, right? Which is your beliefs, is I think what you're suggesting. Where all the hardwired beliefs, perceptions, attitudes, behaviors all exist. So to be uber tactical, you're talking about an eyes-open meditation where your periphery is engaged. No, your eyes are closed. So you're doing it eyes closed, and you're watching the light show behind your eyes.

You're not watching any. You're focusing on absolutely nothing so the reason i was going to that is because it was a tactic i was using with um cage fighters ufc fighters is that um as a ying to their yang we would do a meditation eyes open meditation which is actually really hard to do yeah eyes closed is we're visual creatures so it's when you close the eyes a couple things happen one your analytical judgmental critical mind can kick on pretty quickly or you fall asleep right and so what we're doing is eyes open and just having them like three quarters of the way closed i should say and just engage their periphery and as keeping it

as wide non-judgmental as they possibly can, but just noticing as opposed to the narrow, attentional hunting mode or survival mode of looking down the barrel of the gun or chasing something in the wild, that narrow attention. So we would go from broad to narrow, broad to narrow, and then stay broad as much as we can. And that exercise, they would report

quieting down their analytics because they're paying attention to space. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you can do it with your eyes open as well. Which I think is exponentially harder. I thought that's what you were going, but you're saying eyes closed. So we do it both. You do. We do it with your eyes open as well. Which I think is exponentially harder. I thought that's what you were going, but you're saying eyes closed. So we do it both.

You do. We do it both. But for the sake of this conversation, just by closing your eyes and focusing on nothing, you can slip past the analytical mind. And when you're an alpha, you know this, you tend to see more in images and pictures. You're more creative right and then you can train a person to actually know the different brain wave states and my definition of theta is when your body's resting in a light sleep and you're awake and that's when the door between the conscious mind and the subconscious mind is wide open this is the most suggestible state of the brain. It's a hypnotic state. If a person can sit and practice this, we discovered that the formula is relaxed and awake. Relaxed,

the more relaxed you get in your heart, the more energy goes to the brain. Now, this is where I'm completely a rookie in this part of the discussion which is how the heart and the brain work together the heart and the mind i was really surprised i was i was i i was so surprised and seeing this because i was always a brain guy until i saw like like every time the heart gets coherent, it influences. And how do we measure heart coherence? We measure them with all kinds of devices. We use what's called a bodyguard.

Some people wear them for 24 hours. We're looking at them when they're sleeping. We're looking at them when they're eating. We're looking at them when they're doing their meditations. We're looking at them when we're signing a specific act during a meditation to see if they're actually doing it. We can say to them, you're doing it or you're not doing it. So it's measuring the electrical activity? It's measuring the electrical activity.

It's actually measuring the pulse. It's not heart rate variability. There is an element of heart rate variability to heart coherence, absolutely. So there'd be an increase in variability. Yes. And there would be a what from an electrical standpoint? I don't know what the other measures would be. So the sensors are picking up electromagnetic signals.

The heart, when it gets coherent, produces a magnetic field, and that magnetic field can be up to three meters wide. It is like a drum. It gets very coherent, and it produces a magnetic field and that magnetic field can be up to three meters wide. It is like a drum. It gets very coherent and it produces a magnetic field, a very measurable magnetic field. So it informs the brain to be creative and it causes a kind of a frequency or energy is carrying information. So there's an emission of energy that's released from the heart. If a person can get relaxed in their heart and awaken a brain, you can train a person to get really good at this. It gets really crazy because what takes place from

coherence is another phase called resonance. And resonance is when the brain is in delta and at the same time in theta and at the same time in alpha and the same time in beta and high beta and all of a sudden you have this very peak frequency called gamma and that's super consciousness so now the person is really relaxed in their heart and instead of stressed out unconscious and programmed, somehow they tend to be way more conscious. So this is the signature of aha, the signature of insight, the signature maybe of flow state as well. It's another arousal. Instead of the arousal being fear, instead of the arousal

being pain, instead of the arousal being aggression, the arousal is kind of like what you said. It's kind of like an ecstasy. It's kind of like a bliss. Like a person is like, this feels so good, I don't want to leave the moment. Like I want to stay right here. And what we want to do is get people to do that so well with their eyes closed that they can do it with their eyes open. And that's why we do walking meditations and things like that. And so you've got a seven-day training. with their eyes closed that they can do it with their eyes open. And that's why we do walking meditations and things like that.

And so you've got a seven-day training. And then for somebody who doesn't have the ability to get to a location, I know you have one coming up in L.A., can't get to California or whatever, what do you point them to to increase? Yeah, so we have a little course called The Formula. And it's like 30 minutes of content with five meditations, 12 different sessions. It's a great way to get the practice of heart coherence

and brain coherence and then synchronize the two. And the five meditations are step-by-step. Work on the heart, work on the brain, work on the heart and the brain, and then take it to the next level. And then we have an online progressive workshop like the same course we'll be doing in LA in January. You can watch it online and you can get good 12, 14 hours of content and you'll get six meditations and four hours of meditations.

And you've got a lot of tools to practice there and it's a requirement for for our community in fact i tell people do not come to a week-long event do not come to a week-long event until you see the progressive workshop so they have to do the online progressive workshop they have to prepare because we got bodies to heal we got lives to change we got futures to create i, it was a very full week. I mean, I just finished one just this past week. And yeah, they're six in the morning until seven or 730. How many do you do?

We do about one a month. So why did you want to go down the research path? path. You could stay as a kind of a guru and have 12 of these a year, 2,000 folks, write some more books, and just have the honest experience that you know you're onto. And as soon as you're going down, I want to measure it. And I'll tell you, before you answer the question, one more divergent. It was 1995, and I had this radical injury. It was two spines, two vertebrae. One was an extrusion, and one was an intrusion. So one popped in, and one popped out.

The one that popped out, they're pretty normal, right? But the one that popped in broke off. So like a spondylolisthesis? No, no. It was a cervical intrusion. So it was just the disc matter bulged inward, not outward. So it bulged inward and then it pinched and it broke off. So I've got this disc matter floating around my spinal cord and pushing against my spinal cord, which was a problem. Prolapse. Yeah. Not pushing pushing on the nerve but pushing on the entire bundle yeah and it was bad it was really bad and so two years where i my wife was like um

she would have had it with me because i couldn't even lift my laundry basket and um you know she's like you you need to figure this out like we can't keep going this way and i didn't want surgery and then the doc uh it was great. He was, you know, good ortho, spinal ortho. He's like, look, it's time. We've done everything. I cannot do any more here for you. It's time for surgery. And I said, can you give me 30 days? I was just wrapping up my master's degree or just somewhere in that range, right towards the end of my master's. And I thought to myself, what am I doing? I'm not doing any performance imagery. I'm not using my mind in any way. And there was this fringe thing called

healing imagery, not really well understood. And I read a couple articles about it. And I don't even think they were scientific journals. There was a couple articles about what is this thing called healing imagery? And they were studying cancer patients. Do you remember this original research or writings about it? And they asked them, what did you do? Because there was a control group and an experimental group. And the experimental group said, I don't know. The control group did nothing over the course of X number of weeks. And the experimental group said, well, you told me to do healing imagery. And there was this theme that emerged that there was like Mickey Mouse hands, or there was dump trucks, or there was the hands of God.

And it was this white light. And there was these themes that no instructions were given to these folks to do healing other than do healing imagery, X number of minutes for X number of days. And they had better results in cancer than the the control group and so i thought i need to do that and i couldn't see it disappear so i used that that spiritual framing it was mickey mouse hands but they were like had the hands of god in there at the energy of god if you will and i could not see my intrusion go away extrude now i'm blanking on the am i getting the diagnosis right intrusion i couldn't see it just disappear i couldn't see it go away so you can ask my wife 17 minutes every night for about 30 uh 30 days um i would see like a wet clay i would see this matter of my disc be like wet clay and these mickey mouse hands

fueled with this spiritual you would call it this intelligent being or intelligence take layers off it like clay wet water on clay and just take more off and more off and more off and more off until i could believe that over time it was reducing to a place that was non-existent. Probably like 45 days later that I had a second MRI, the doc pops the screen up. This is before there's still screens, not like the digital now. It was a view box. Bang, he puts it up and he goes, he's like, I don't know what to tell you, but how are you doing? And I said, I'm okay. Like nothing, nothing radically different. I was still kind of a burning between my shoulder blades. And he says, yeah, it looks like, I don't know, the body sometimes just eats up these things. And it looks like there's just a little bit of calcium that's built up there, but like it's, it's gone. So, you know, I don't know what I would go. We could go in and do some

surgery and poke around and maybe clean some stuff out. I said, no, thank you. So back fully functioning is very soon after that. I needed my mind to catch up with the image that I saw. But my mind also was the one that allowed me to take these layers off every night and so I share that with you because if I ever in this conversation had more of like a tell me more tell me more I really want to understand I don't talk about this much and the reason I don't talk about it if all it any is because it's like you fucking kidding it's It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. Yeah. Like, it really is. I mean, I did, in my own convalescence from my injury, I did the exact same thing. I went in there with a mortar,

and I reconstructed every vertebrae, like, with a mortar, and just make it all smooth. And I did, and if I was doing that and I was on, say, I broke T8, T9, T10, T11, T12, and L1. If I was on T9 and I started thinking about, am I going to live in a wheelchair, I'd stop and start all over again because I was not. That's exactly how I did it.

I was not giving that intelligence. It is a consciousness that's giving us life, and I have to be present with it i have to give it a very clear picture and if it's if it's polluted in any way i would start all over and i think the brain does not know the difference really at certain moments between what's real and what's imagining and i think that in effect starts producing outcomes um so yeah, so that's an example of truth. You're the example of truth. So when a person comes to our week-long retreat and they stand on the stage and they say, I was diagnosed with stage four cancer and I had a doctor, so I tried the chemo, I tried the

radiation, I tried the surgeries, I tried the diet, I tried the radiation i tried the surgeries i tried the diet i tried the drug trials i tried everything that wasn't changing because i wasn't changing and then they say i have no evidence of cancer like is it's a four minute mile moment it's like i'm looking at two thousand people in an audience and everybody's leaning in because that is the example of truth up there they're saying i broke through a certain level of consciousness or unconsciousness, and the person in the audience invariably that has that similar condition sees that person, they don't look any more special than them, and their belief in possibility goes up.

And I think people do the best with what they think is available. So you get enough people together in the spirit of that, I think people become conscious of other possibilities. And just like an infection can spread amongst the community and create disease, health and wellness can become as infectious as disease in seven days. So we did this study and we found out that we had all these people with everybody had their own genotype, right? Their own particular gene expression based on their race, their culture, their family, whatever. And genes make proteins and proteins are responsible for

the structure and function of your body. The expression of proteins is the expression of life. At the end of seven days, all these different genotypes, almost 80% of the collective were expressing the same genes and making the same proteins. That's unheard of. So people change people, but there was an emergent consciousness that was taking place that was being reflected in people's biology. The herd, the flock, the tribe, you know, the school of fish, everybody's evolving together in seven days. So if you don't know that that's possible,

that you could actually use imagery to heal some type of lesion, then you'll make the typical choice. But the fact that you do know that you have a hand in it, you can actually do something, you, me, I can do something to help my health. And it may not be in like a pill immediate. You gotta put in the work. You gotta put in the time

and you have to really understand what you're doing and why you're doing it there can be no false hope well so this is why i didn't talk about it because i didn't know exactly how it worked and i didn't i didn't know the medical professional said oh the gas just the body just ate it up maybe you know sometimes it it turns these things into a gas and it just kind of i thought well maybe but i didn't tell him what I did. That was my information. But I didn't want to share it. One, because it was super fringe and it was way out there.

I can get out there. And so I'm not too afraid of that. However, I didn't want to set up this condition in another person that I did it. I'm pretty good at this. You could do it if you were just good enough. And then they go away and they're like, fuck, I still have cancer. I've still got my back is still riddled. And I just felt like there was this unfair thing.

Yeah, yeah. And so that's why I asked you about the way why you wanted to step forward because I made a very different choice. Yeah. When I saw people, like I saw that I was truly making a difference on some level in their life, that was the moment I didn't care. Like I really didn't care about the academic who was sitting there judging me. He or she is going to judge me anyway.

I really don't care. Like that's fine. I'm more interested in people who do wanna learn. Those are the people that I'm after, right? So they can have their judgments about me and say all kinds of things, but I really don't care anymore. I really don't care.

I know on some level between the evidence that's taking place in human testimony, and there's enough, we have hundreds if not thousands now of people who have healed themselves. And we have amazing evidence in empirical scientific studies. Evidence is the loudest voice. And so chronic health conditions in themselves, just stay in the lane of convention, require a lifestyle change. And chronic health conditions make up 95% of all health conditions because of lifestyle, because of behaviors, because of choices. Okay, so a pharmaceutical may alleviate and give you

some chemical balance. But if you're not physically balanced and you're not emotionally balanced, that's going to do very little. So teach a person then the structure of what it really means to change. People don't do the meditations in our work to heal. They do the meditations to change. And what are you hoping that they change? So it's just three things. The way they think, the way they act, and the way they feel. And how you think, how you act, and how you feel

is called your personality. And your personality is intimately connected to your personal reality. So then let's unlearn the old personality that's 95% hardwired, conditioned, and habituated. And that's the hard work. That's the overcoming process. And then let's fire and wire new thoughts in our brain. What do I want to believe? A belief is just a thought I keep thinking over and over again. So let's with intention, let's with attention, begin to install the hardware. Keep doing it. It becomes a software program. That's the new voice in your head. That's the new belief. I can. It's possible. That's my vision. Okay. A person who's healing from a health condition may have a good meditation in the morning,

45 minutes, hour, half hour, whatever, feel really in the zone. 12 minutes. 12 minutes, feel really in the zone, but then spends the rest of their day, the rest of their day frustrated, impatient, angry, suffering, fearful. Okay. So one hour. It does not, it doesn't transfer. It's not gonna work.

So let me mentally rehearse how I'm going to be in those circumstances. Now, you know this, the act of mental rehearsal. You close your eyes and you rehearse doing something, whether you're playing the piano or doing a sport or whatever, you know this extremely well. whether you're playing the piano or doing a sport or whatever, you know this extremely well. When you're truly present, the brain cannot distinguish between the actual event

and what you're imagining. So what you're imagining becomes the experience and the brain looks like you've been playing the piano for five days. It looks like you've been hitting a golf ball for the last week. The brain looks like you've already done it. Now the brain's no longer a record of the past now. Now you're priming it as a map to the future. You're installing the hardware. Keep doing it. You behave differently around your coworker. There's no magic here. You behave differently around your ex or whoever. You're changing, right? Now the the change has to be greater than your environment, to think, act, and feel differently in the same environment.

Okay, now, can I stay in my heart? Can I feel an elevated emotion today? Let me just bring up the feeling I want to feel today. Let me bring it up 100 times so I can bring it up on my own, right? So the word meditation then means to become familiar with. That's what it means. To become so familiar, so conscious of your unconscious self that you don't default and go unconscious in your waking day.

That is a great day. And then, okay, let me remind myself how I am going to think. Let me remind myself how I'm going to act at the staff meeting, how I'm going to act with my kids, how I'm going to act when I'm here. What would greatness look like? What would love do? Let me just rehearse it in my mind so I can get my behaviors to match my intention. Let me get really clear. Okay, no person, no circumstance, no condition in my life is going to move me from this elevated emotion. Now the game is on. You're out of the bleachers. You're on the playing field now because the person

who's truly interested in healing says, the moment I start feeling those familiar emotions, I'm signaling the same genes. And genes make proteins. It's the environment that signals the gene, okay? The end product from an experience in the environment is an emotion. So as long as I live by this emotion, I'm signaling the same genes. Is it possible then if I feel this elevated emotion, I'm signaling the same genes. Okay, is it possible then if I feel this elevated emotion and I'm able to sustain it that I could actually, my body would believe

it's living in a different environment? And if the environment signals the gene and the end product of an experience in the environment is an emotion, by me feeling this elevated emotion my entire day, I can signal genes ahead of the environment. What we discovered, if you have intention in that state, 100% of the people actually signal the gene to make a protein. 100%. That's a pretty good odds it's going to happen. What duration of time? Seven days.

Well, if you thin slice the amount of time they were doing intention work, call it mental rehearsal. 35 hours of meditation in a seven-day event. Okay, 35 hours of meditation. And of that meditation, are you including mental rehearsal, mental imagery, intention? Is that included in the 35? Yeah, it's a journey. Yeah, so you're thin slicing. There are thin slices of different types of meditation that you're talking about. Yeah, so you're thin slicing. There are thin slices of different types of meditation that you're talking about. Yeah, so that's one type of meditation. We do all kinds.

We create brain and heart coherence. That's essential. When we discovered, Mike, that was really crazy, when people started hitting these, and I talk about it in the documentary, where they're hitting these high, high states of gamma. I'm like, Finding Mastery is brought to you by iRestore.

When it comes to my health, I try to approach things with a proactive mindset. It's not about avoiding poor health. This is about creating the conditions for growth. Now, hair health is one of those areas that often gets overlooked until your hair starts to change. That's when people pay change. That's when people pay attention. Now, that's why I've been loving iRestore Elite. It's a hands-free red light therapy device that helps stimulate dormant hair follicles, helps to support regrowth. It's a

clinical grade device. It's simple to use. It fits right into the rhythm of my day, whether I'm meditating, reading, prepping for one of our clients here at Finding Mastery. It's really simple. Now, red light therapy has some pretty amazing research behind it when it comes to cellular energy, tissue repair, inflammation control, as well as healing. iRestore is using those same principles to help your hair thrive. I really like this product. I used it last night. I use it on a regular basis.

They also offer a 12-month money-back guarantee. So if you don't see results, they'll refund you. No questions. I love that. They have real confidence in their product. And because you're a member of the Finding Mastery community, right now they're offering our listeners huge savings on the iRestore Elite. When you use the code FindingMastery at iRestore.com slash findingmastery.

Again, that code is findingmastery at iRestore.com slash findingmastery for exclusive savings. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Lisa. Sleep is one of the foundational pillars of high performance. There's no arguing that. And when we have great sleep consistently and deeply, we give ourselves the best chance to operate at our best physically, cognitively, emotionally, sleep affects it all. That's why I care about the environment that I sleep in so much. And of course, a great mattress, it matters. One of our teammates here at Finding Mastery has been sleeping on a

Lisa mattress for over a year now, and it's made a noticeable difference. They specifically chose one from their chill collection because they sleep hot, something I know many of us can relate to, myself included. What are they reporting back? Fewer wake-ups, deeper rest, and feeling more recovered when they jump into their work here at Finding Mastery. Lisa has several models to choose from. So whether you're a side sleeper, stomach sleeper, or somewhere in between, there's a fit designed specifically for you. And what I appreciate most is their purpose. They've donated over 41,000 mattresses to people in need. I love that. So right now you can get 25% off all mattresses at lisa.com plus an extra $50 off when you use the code finding mastery at checkout. That's Lisa L E E S a dot com. The promo code is finding mastery for 25% off and then plus an extra $50

on us because quality sleep is just too important to leave to chance. Three standard deviations outside of normal when you're measuring anything is 2% of the population. That's very, very good. We're getting high gamma, coherent high gamma brainwave patterns, 200, 300, 400 standard deviations outside of normal. Three is an outlier. So you imagine 197 more, 297 more of those little boxes. This is a person who's having a supernatural amount of order in their autonomic nervous system. So if stress is autonomic dysregulation Then the person who's functioning in that coherent

highly regulated Very intense gamma brainwave state that's producing some kind of ecstasy or bliss that's an enormous amount of autonomic regulation and when people hit that moment somehow there's an immediate biological upgrade in their body there there's the condition and now it's gone because the autonomic nervous system is controlling and coordinating every other system in the body, right? So now the information that's traveling to the cell, to the tissue, to the organ, to the system is very, very coherent, is very clear, and the frequency is very fast. And so a person somehow gets this kind of upgrade. Now that's where we've gotten, like, that's like the instantaneous stuff where I'm shaking

my head and going, muscular dystrophy? I mean, come on. There's no cure for muscular dystrophy. The kid came in in a wheelchair and he's walking out of the event. I'm scratching my head like, how did that happen? He had that moment of arousal, but the arousal was an enormous amount of gamma and it wasn't happening in his thinking neocortex. It was happening in the limbic brain, the seat of the autonomic nervous system on fire. And that's regulating enormous amounts of order, right? It's crazy.

Yeah. It's crazy. I can't believe it. I keep telling the crazy. I can't believe it. I keep telling the scientists, I can't believe this stuff. And you should see the scientists because these are, you know, guys that have published 200, 300 papers. They're very empirical. Now we're working with Harvard scientists and some Stanford people too,

and they see the data. The first thing they fall out of their chair with is seven days like a drug trial is you know three months six months this is they're like what seven days and it's not like it's not like 10 of the population it's 80 it's 70 of your population yeah the community yeah it's kind of insane they're like what no drug no drug trial does that best Best drug trial is 25%, one out of four. This is like three out of four. And I keep saying to the scientists, where are those chemicals coming from?

Where are they coming from? Where are they coming from? The person's not ingesting anything. They're not changing their diet. How can a person's microbiome in seven days be completely different? Completely different. At least 15 probiotic, really powerful, in large communities, changes in microbiome. The only answer is they're not the same person. If they were the same person, they'd have the same microbiome right yeah different different person

completely different microbiome do you think that it's something unique and special that's happening in your methodology or so john cabot zinn is a mentor friend of mine beautiful human being and he's got a three and a five day meditation that i'll go to. And so it's three days of, call it 16 hours of noble silence meditation. And do you think it happens there? And this is not about John and about Joe. This is about the practice of meditation, mindfulness over an extended period of time.

I think that any methodology can work as long as the person understands what they're doing and why they're doing it. I think that's important. And there's elements of mindfulness in the work that we do, but there's a, the uh call it wtf fullness like what like what is that like what what is that and i honestly believe that um when you get in that right brain state like theta you're suggestible to information you're in a hypnotic state right and you suggestibility is your ability to accept

information believe information surrender to it without analyzing it and somehow it programs the subconscious or affects the autonomic nervous system but if your eyes are closed and you're in a meditation and the music's filling the space and you're not seeing anything you know you're not hearing ambient sounds you're not tasting you're not smelling you're not seeing anything, you're not hearing ambient sounds, you're not tasting, you're not smelling, you're not feeling anything with your physical body, but you're still suggestible to information. There's only one other place you can get information from, that's frequency, right? So get the nervous system tuned up to order and there's an invisible field of energy that exists beyond our senses that we are immersed in that somehow the brain can transduce that frequency into information in our biology because

25 hours of focusing a lot of times on a good portion of that on nothing physical and material, somehow there's effects, dramatic effects in people's biology, to the extent that the end of seven days, their biology looks like they're living in a whole new life. It looks like they're living in a whole new environment, and they're in a ballroom, and there's really nothing really spectacular in a ballroom. I've been to thousands of them. They all look the same. When you have a one-week post-trial, three-week, six-week post-trial, and you measure, check in in whatever ways, what are you finding happens post? Okay, I'll tell you what we know so far. HRV levels after the seven-day event continue to improve for two to three weeks. In other words, we do these healings on each other, and you've got to get into this super

altered state. And we see the heart go completely out of order, like there's an arousal that's insane and you see it in the collective. That experience produces an emotion of love and joy that tends to linger for weeks, if not months after the event. The person's just feeling a whole different feeling. We see brain coherence sustained. We see certain people, not all of them, their microbiome stays changed. We see some people regress because they stop doing the work and they return back to their environment and their environment is controlling how they're feeling, and controlling how they're thinking, and controlling how they're acting, and they return back to the same personality.

And so you see this kind of encroachment slowly over time of disease starting to reoccur. But I think really one of the cool things that I'm proud about with our community is that people do the work. And I don't think they do it because they have to. I think they do it because there's magic happening in their life with opportunities and synchronicities and coincidences and that inspires them to want to keep the magic going. So yeah, we've seen great changes and we've seen great,

the people who have those high gamma moments where there's the Parkinson's and now it's gone, those tend to be very permanent. Like we very rarely see like there's a regression of the condition. And we have a language expert, you know, that at the University of Central Oklahoma. He really studies the language of transformation.

And he started off studying like, I think it was like 26 or 28 case histories of people that tell their testimonial, their story of transformation. And he's got a huge AI system. And we were picking apart their story of transformation. And he's got a huge AI system. And we were picking apart the language of transformation so that I can actually teach it better. And I know the words then that I could use to help people get there easier. And one of the main things that happens

in people who really fully immerse themselves is that the word I felt it or feel it is the most common word and it breaks down into two venues. One is it's very somatic. Like I don't know what that was. Like my heart blew open. The top of my head blew off. There was lightning bolts coming out of my hand.

I could feel every atom in my body vibrating to a certain level of order. It's very somatic, like what the hell? And the other component, Mike, is it's very emotional. Like I never felt love like that before. I never felt anything. I don't even have the word to describe it. But as a consequence of that experience there's a temporality like I'm not I'm not that

person any longer like that's not me that used to be that's a different person I'm somebody else right and so the the the those those high arousals where the person moves into those states there there's an upgrade that takes biologically that's sustained for a good period of time. What does your practice look like? So I'm a morning person. I've always been a morning person. I have a lot of things that I have to do in one day. My belief is that if I can get myself right, if I can overcome myself at the beginning of the day, everybody else is easy. So I allow for two hours every morning.

It doesn't mean I necessarily take two hours, but I like the morning where everybody's asleep. I'm early riser. I get in my think box. It's really important. I pace. I move around. I think about the obvious things. Okay, I look at my calendar and get all that taken care of. Okay, this, that, the other thing.

I get all that worked out. And then it is really me sitting down and doing the work. My goal is to be the example, really, of everything that I teach. So I have to lead by example. And I think experience is the greatest professor. So I'm going to step into, we interface with the world. I have lots of Zoom calls, lots of meetings, lots of things to learn. But really, my morning practice is getting myself ready for my day. How am I going to face unexpected things and how long am i going to emotionally

react for if i react i mean it's not that you react the question is how long you keep that going right got it yeah so so then there's things i'm working on with myself you know that i always that i always want to unlearn and relearn you know is this more um are you using your a meditative practice or writing practice? No, no, no. The morning, the first part of the think box of just looking at my day is, that's the knowns. That's analytical, if you will. That's the knowns.

That's just, okay. I can go through that very quickly. Then I'll say, okay, when I get done, I'm going to have to read this stuff just to get ready. Or someone's going to brief me on it and I'll get ready. Okay. But then there's Joe that spends on the journey, right? How do I want to be one day, one lifetime? Let me just see if I can embody this person.

Let me see if I can keep my energy up. Let me see if I can stay in my heart. Let me see if I can really be present and considerate and kind. And then the rest of the day I'm serving. You know, the rest of the day I'm busy and my ambition is to be able to to maintain that modified state of mind and body my entire day only for the simple reason that i want the synchronicity i want the weird opportunity i want the unusual thing that caused me to go huh did i really

create that am i am i somehow in the creative process here instead of being the victim in my life that person that circumstance is actually controlling my feelings and thoughts and ultimately my behaviors. That's a program, right? So I want to switch from that mode into being the creator. So I got to get in the state where I can create. And that means sometimes it takes me a little bit longer. And sometimes it takes me like almost an hour to get beyond myself. but I'm not going to get up until I'm that person. And I don't care

if I run over. It's just in the light of all eternity, that's worth it to me, right? So I allow for those two hours. Sometimes the whole entire two hours I'm inward. And other times I've fallen to the fold. And it's like you said, you're there, and you just want to elongate the moment. You don't want to do anything except, I always say, memorize this feeling. Dude, memorize this feeling. Memorize it.

Bring it up. Keep remembering this feeling. This is who you are, right? So when I open my eyes, and I do do that, my day is differently than when I don't. And I like the synchronic in and I like the I like the synchronicities I like the unknown experiences because it proves to me that I am the creator

of my life at the end of my day it's always the same question how'd you do dude like how did you do today like yeah when'd you fall from grace what what person what circumstance when did you lose it once you go unconscious then of course the next question is, new day tomorrow, how are you going to think different? How are you going to behave differently in that same circumstance? Another shot at it, Joe Dispenza, what would you do? And if you die, if I don't know the answer, I'm going to look it up and find out what would somebody somewhere sometime must have faced this and how did they do it so let me just learn that and then let me just let me integrate that into my evolution right because what i want to do is i just want to make steady strides in my own evolution and sometimes i work on things for

months you know just just but i know that that is the i know that when I change, my life changes. I mean, I know that. Nothing changes in our life until we change, right? So again, if I could work with it, if it takes me two months to get there, it's always worth the effort. What challenges you the most? My biggest challenge is time. I mean, I do a lot of things and I think it's a commodity. But if I'm in the present moment and I'm not thinking about time, somehow it magically works. So I work a lot on that. What is your great anxiety? Am I doing enough? Yeah. Yeah. Not like in an obsessive way. But one thing that really works well for me, and I'm totally happy with this, is that I just need time alone.

And I think that that helps me the most. A couple quick hits. Yeah. I am. How do you finish that thought? Joyful right now. My vision is? To make a difference in the world.

To change people in order to change the world. Relationships are? The most important thing we have. My philosophy is? Live life to its fullest and that we're the creator of our life. If you could sit with one master, somebody that's a true master of self or craft, who would it be? And if you only had one question, what would you ask?

Well, I would choose somebody that was enlightened whoever that would be and then i would ask him what's my blind spot that's all i want to know just maybe just ask your wife she probably knows of course ask one of your kids or something that's what i always do to say to my kids how am i doing yeah how am i doing like so um mastery is, I think when you know that, you know, how to do something and you can shorten the distance between the thought of what you want and the experience of having it. That's really cool. That's my best shot.

That is really cool. Speaking from my present state of ignorance. My working philosophy is every day is an opportunity to create a living masterpiece. And each one of those words matters. Opportunity, create a masterpiece. And so when you think about a living masterpiece, what comes to mind for you? I really like studying people who have near-death experiences. It's just really fascinating to me because when they come back, their brain's completely different for sure. And their worldview is different. There's nothing greater than being a part of a human being's transformation. There's nothing greater when you can celebrate someone's personal change and transformation. And I think the greatest form of gratitude that we can ever experience is when we receive gratitude from someone else. I think there's an empathy that's innate in us that we kind of go, we feel what that person's feeling when their life has changed, right?

Or they're appreciative. And I think our social networks switch on. I think we come together, we commune, we connect more. And I think there's a greater appreciation for life. And so mission, my mission driven people are people who really, really want to make a difference in people's, people's lives. And I think, I think that's the highest form of motivation. And I think people, you know, we see this in our work all the time. Like, you know, people come for wealth.

They come for health. They come for relationships. They come for a mystical experience. It doesn't matter to me. It doesn't matter to me. It's just, that's just one experience. Like the people who actually heal themselves, they're not victimized by their disease. They tell me I would have never changed. I would have never

changed unless I had this disease, right? And so then, but what people ultimately come for after they arrive at whatever it is they arrive at is wholeness. They just want wholeness. I mean, imagine being so whole you no longer want. How could you want when you're whole? And somehow the self-reported questionnaires that we do around that, that there's a direct correlation with the heart and the brain, coherence in the heart and the brain, that synchronization that takes place. And that kind of explanation, like, I don't want anything. And I think when we're in that state, everybody's okay. It's amazing. Cardiac disease is one of the big killers. And for folks that are listening, that are struggling with cardiac disease, and they've got maybe blockage, they've got a

calcification, they've got something going on. Would you suggest, because you've talked about the heart a lot, would you suggest a daily meditation practice? If they're not yours, figure it out. Would you suggest a healing imagery where they see the decalcification taking place? Yeah, I think it's more than that, though. I think there's three types of stress, physical, chemical, and emotional. I think there's three types of balance, physical, chemical, and emotional. I think there's three types of balance, physical, chemical, and emotional. I work really hard in my life to be physically balanced, chemically balanced, and emotionally balanced. The hard one out of the three, because you know 75% to 90% of every person that walks into a health care

facility walks in because of psychological and emotional stress. So you could be visualizing all you want, seeing your arteries clear, you could be an emotional basket case, and it's not going to work because the heart and survival and stress is out of balance, right? So there's got to be the right, I believe, me personally, I believe there's got to be a right state that you have to be in to be able to have the visual process be the most effective. Because otherwise, it's trying, it's forcing, it's wishing, it's hoping, it's fighting, it's competing. That's lack. That's like, we cannot attract anything in our life that we feel separate from. So in order for the person to heal their heart, their heart has to be open. Their heart has to be activated. That center's got to be awakened.

Then the greatest effects that you can see, and we've seen this with people, the greatest effects takes place beyond our comprehension of how that little protrusion disappeared. How did it disappear? That's not, it's none of your business. The autonomic nervous system can manufacture chemistry like that's insane. We've proven it. So like, it's none of your business. All you have to do is, when it happens and how it happens is none of our business, but we've got to be in the right state, right? Getting people in the right state is the challenge. Then the rehearsal, the positive imagery, all that stuff has the greatest outcome. But that works better in children, we discovered, than in adults.

What works better in adults is for them to change. If I change, my heart should change. If I change, my life should change. And people say, I don't know 80 percent of the tumors went away I wasn't doing anything like I I was just doing my meditations there well of course you're in homeostasis and your body's back in balance because because stress is the lack of homeostasis some people's goals when they have a diagnosis is not like i'm going to heal their goal is like i've been out of homeostasis for the last 10 years my job is to get back into homeostasis if i get back in the

homeostasis a better shot of me healing now then with that comes a lot of challenges like i said it's not that you react yeah that's how long you react. You are more of a bottom-up approach versus a top-down. Yeah. Right? Create the conditions. Create the physiological experience. And one of the conditions is the neurochemistry that happens between people, the community. So you're more of a bottoms-up, but you're not absent of a top-down.

Because a person could say, I'm healthy, I'm healthy, I'm wealthy, I'm wealthy, I'm free, I'm free, I'm unlimited. And their body's programmed, and their body's saying, no, you're not, you're miserable, dude. That thought never passes the brainstem. That affirmation thing is kind of, it's clumsy. Yeah, but we get a person in the right state

where they're feeling grateful. We accept, believe, and surrender to thoughts equal to our emotional state. So the bottom up is important. The top down is the application, is the technique. Yeah, that's correct. You've got to set up the conditions. And I think I've done everything wrong.

I've made all the wrong turns. Like, well, I'll try this, I'll try that. And so I don't do any type of meditation that's traditional. I just look at the data. Yeah, that's really cool. Peter said that you're just gonna love having a conversation. I've known you from a distance

and I've respected the work that you're doing and the mission that you're on. And I've really appreciate this conversation. Peter told me the same thing about you and it's absolutely the truth and I hope we become friends. Oh, I would love that, man. Yeah, congratulations on the way

that you're making a difference in other people's lives and people change people and you're making a big impact on changing folks. So congrats. I'm stoked that we got to meet. Thank you, Peter. And Dr. Joe Dispenza, what a gift. Thank you, Mike. Thank you for the opportunity to meet. Thank you, Peter. And Dr. Joe Dispenza, what a gift.

Thank you, Mike. Thank you for the opportunity to contribute. Appreciate you. Yeah, thank you. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show,

the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify. We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're looking for even more insights, we have a newsletter we send out every Wednesday. Punch over to findingmastery.com slash newsletter to sign up. The show wouldn't be possible without our sponsors, and we take our recommendations seriously. And the team is very thoughtful about making sure we love and endorse every product you hear on the show. If you want to check out any of our sponsor offers you heard about in this episode, you

can find those deals at findingmastery.com slash sponsors. And remember, no one does it alone. The door here at Finding Mastery is always open to those looking to explore the edges and the reaches of their potential so that they can help others do the same. So join our community, share your favorite episode with a friend, and let us know how we can continue to show up for you. Lastly, as a quick reminder, information in this podcast and from any material on the Finding Mastery website and social channels is for information purposes only. If you're looking for meaningful support, which we all need, one of the best things you can do is to talk to a licensed professional.

So seek assistance from your healthcare providers. Again, a sincere thank you for listening. Until next episode, be well, think well, keep exploring.