Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Evolving - From Transactional to Transformational Relationships | NASCAR Driver, Kurt Busch

Episode Date: September 23, 2020

This week’s conversation is with NASCAR champion, Kurt Busch.In 2019, Kurt made the move to Chip Ganassi Racing to become the driver of the No. 1 Monster Energy Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 in the Monster Energy NASCAR Cup SeriesKurt has more than 650 career starts in the MENCS spanning over 21 years of competition.He’s made 12 appearances in the NASCAR Playoffs including six consecutive appearances.In addition to being the 2004 MENCS Champion, he also has marquee wins in the NASCAR All-Star race, Coca-Cola 600 (2010) and the Daytona 500 (2017).Kurt is a fierce competitor and his resume speaks for itself… he understands what it takes to win.In this conversation, Kurt shares how that same mentality that propelled him to countless victories also almost derailed his career.We discuss the importance of relationships and how evolving his approach – from transactional to transformational – has reinvigorated him in the second half of his career.Kurt also describes what it’s like inside a race car traveling at 200mph.The level of focus required is intense – and recovering from a 3-hour race is no joke._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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One a day. What do you mean one a day? There's way more than that happening here. Don't tell. Okay. All right, look, they're incredibly simple. They're effective. 28 grams of protein, they're incredibly simple. They're effective. 28 grams of protein, just 150 calories and zero grams of sugar.

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Energy NASCAR Cup Series. It's a mouthful. It's also known as MENX for short. Kurt has more than 650 career starts in the MENX, spanning over 21 years of competition. He's made 12 appearances in the NASCAR playoffs. He's won a ton of races. You might recognize the Daytona 500 as one of those wins. It's one of the marquee races on tour. And he also won the overall championship in 2004. Kurt is a fierce competitor. Wait until you hear him. And his reputation precedes this conversation. And his resume speaks for itself. He understands what it takes to win. And in this conversation, Kurt shares how the same mentality that propelled him to countless victories also almost derailed his career. So we discussed the importance of

relationships and how evolving his approach from transactional to transformational has reinvigorated him in the second half of his career. And Kurt also describes what it's like to be inside a race car traveling at 200 miles an hour. I mean, the level of focus required is just flat out intense. There's no kind of time off during these really long, intense races. And then recovering from these three-hour races, it's no joke. So with that, let's jump right into this week's conversation with the legend Kurt Busch. Kurt, how are you?

I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on. My pleasure to spend some time with you. And so, you know, we've got this idea that folks that are at the tip of the arrow, they're different. Yeah, they're just different. They organize their life differently. They experience life in different ways. At the same time, they're richly human, like all of us. So I'm incredibly interested in how you've organized your life. Now, you've had a unique way of living. And so, what I'd like to do is just to get a snapshot, Kurt, is like, if you could name the chapters of your life, what would those chapters be? And how many chapters have we gotten to so far?

Well, I mean, racing, race cars at 200 miles an hour, there's probably plenty of pages that get blown around in the wind. When you focus in on different moments in life or different, you know, there was a race car in the garage that my dad could barely afford. It was a hobby. It was fun for him. And, you know, in my teens, you know, in the second chapter, so to speak, you know, the work ethic that my dad instilled in me, my curiosity for the race cars, and also the push from my mother to be a good student and to graduate with good grades, that started to unfold. And then, you know, into the real world as far as business and racing, you know, I would say in my young 20s, the talent of just driving the car and the wide open, wet behind the ears

approach of going after things in NASCAR is how that third chapter went. And I would say, you know, I'm in chapter four of now being an established champion in NASCAR, understanding the business aspect of sponsorship, the management of people, operations of race teams, the ability to talk and host different podcasts and go on to live TV and to entertain millions of viewers through the microphone to talk about NASCAR. From what I've experienced over the last 20 years. I would say I'm in chapter four and I have no idea how many more chapters there are, but there's plenty of opportunities that I've seen pop up around me just because of awareness of work ethic and continuing to

jump into whatever it may be to continue to better myself, my family, and people around me. Okay, there you go. All right, so let's spend a little bit of time, not get hung up on it, but chapter one, right, those early years, because there's something really unique that happened in your family. And both you and your brothers, you know, like you've got a relationship to racing, your dad did. And I'd love to understand that chapter, first chapter and second chapter a little bit, but let's just stay with chapter one before the age of 10. What was that like inside the house for you? And I know that's hard to recall anything before age five or six, you know, but so whatever you remember from that, from that early days.

Yeah. A big thing I remember, you know, from the early days growing up in Las Vegas, we lived on a street that had probably 30 houses or so. There was probably 15 kids my age. And it was weird because when my dad came home from work, you know, this is seven, eight, nine, 10 years old. He was a tool salesman. He had a big tool truck. And when he came home, I was more or less in charge of shipping and receiving on opening boxes and getting things prepped and ready to supply the truck for the next day's route. And when I'm out playing with my friends and out there with kids baseball you know basketball tag whatever it may have been when dad rolled in Kurt was out like they're like what why why

can't you stick around and be more of a friend with us I'm like well my dad says I got to do this stuff for for the family business and so I learned early on that business was going to take over most of my extra time. And if I didn't have good grades, mom was parping on me to make sure that I was getting good grades. And in my early teens, I don't want to jump too far ahead. My mom worked at the high school that I went to. And either this was a good thing or a bad thing. I don't want to jump too far ahead. My mom worked at the high school that I went to, and either this was a good thing or a bad thing. I didn't really know at the time, but I had perfect attendance, ninth, 10th, and 11th grade. She wanted me to actually ditch on senior ditch day, and I didn't because there was extra credit involved if I showed up to class, and that was going to help with bump pumping up my grades a little bit.

I would not have guessed that for either of those. I wouldn't have guessed either of those for you. And that's why I love these questions, right? So what was high school like with mom involved? So I'm painting a picture in my mind that it was a high demand environment where it's like, no, you're working for part of the family, like that kind of thing at a young age. And then mom being a challenger, as you talked about. And then it doesn't sound like a hovering mom, like a helicopter mom, but you knew she was around, you know, and then you chose, it sounds like you chose to make

somewhat of the angel decisions as opposed to some of the more deviant troublemaking whatever decisions. Is that close? Yeah, that's very accurate because I think later in life, I had more of the Peter Pan approach on going out and finding trouble later on once I got out into the real world or out on my own and into the NASCAR circuit. But before all that, with the discipline and the regiment, I think that that helped a ton with building that foundation. And then the respect of people that I was meeting.

And then when that started to evolve into more of the racetrack life, that's when I saw with my dad's approach, when he went to the racetrack, it wasn't social hour. It wasn't there to make friends. It was to win. And so that upbringing of discipline and then to perform and to win, it was around me whether I knew it or not. And that's how I think I was able to crack through, to be able to get recognized and to be a little fish in a big pond in the western states of racing. That's what helped me jump ahead and to get recognized, to be able to parlay that into a full-time NASCAR career. Okay. So that helped you get into the game, discipline and all business.

And it wasn't about relationships. It wasn't about fun and it wasn't about joy. It was about take care of business and go get the win. Is that fair? It is. And it's that way because when I look back on things with racing in this lower division and then getting up into a middle and then the higher divisions, I didn't have those friendships. And I moved on so quickly with advancing through those racing situations. I mean, my first ever race was 1994. I was 16 years old. I made it to the top form of NASCAR, what was called the Winston Cup Series, six years later.

I'm starting with the top guys, Dale Earnhardt Sr., Jeff Gordon. Bobby Labonte was the current champion that year. And I'm starting a race in September of 2000 with those guys. That's how fast things went. And so when things were moving that fast, of course, I'm not developing as what I should have as a male, as a human to know what to do with interviews, know what to do professionally. Again, my dad's a blue collar tool salesman, an auto mechanic. And when I made it to the big time, the advice and the ability to help nurture me was kind of flatlined. And now here I am as a 22-year-old drinking through a funnel, moved to the Carolinas to go full-time racing,

and now I'm learning all these different facets of the business. One wise phrase that an individual gave me early on to just try to create perspective and to try to create some clarity was just visualize yourself in the Hollywood squares game. You're the center square and you've got to compartmentalize all those other squares if you want to be successful in this industry. And I think that applies to any business and any person in any situation. I mean, what an interesting way to think about relationships because the Hollywood Squares. Oh, no, I was thinking Brady Bunch, Hollywood Squares. How does that play out, the Hollywood Squares? So it's like a tic-tac-toe board and you're trying to have the X's and the O's, but you have the different characters that are there. So it's very similar to the Brady Bunch display and you have to go and conquer all those different squares.

Listen, even your language about like conquering relationships and compartmentalizing them, I'm getting this, you've had challenges with relationships, you know, like, and so now here we are talking about like, okay, I didn't actually have great relationships as a kid, like, because it was a business, it was business and it was work and it was intense. And then when you got your young boy, young man, I guess, into a man's game, and then you're drinking through a fire hose of stress and pressure and lights and whatever, I can see how this could be radically hard. And then, okay. So what scared you as a kid, go back to like racing, home life, school life. What were the things that scared you the most? Um, that's a interesting question for a guy that lives his life at 200 miles an hour, I didn't have too many fears. You know, I guess disappointment, leaving somebody disappointed was a fear because I wanted to excel or to deliver on performance or to be that person that, you know, you can always depend on and call or to, to send a text to, you know,

to be a dependable person. Maybe I was fearful of, of disappointing somebody. Yeah, there you go. And then if you were, if you were to think about how big that was for you, that, that those fears of disappointment, right. Was it something that, um, was big inside of you or it didn't, it didn't, um, it's like, you're trying to recall it now. Like maybe it something that was big inside you or it didn't, it didn't, it's like you're trying to recall it now, like maybe it was that. I think it's just the path that you leave behind. It's not burning bridges, leaving an open door, leaving a roadway behind you. And I had a small responsibility with my little brother who ends up becoming a NASCAR champion. He's a two-time champion in NASCAR, has more wins than I do and

more accolades. And that responsibility as an older brother, I think was something that I didn't realize I was carrying around. It was like a backpack, you know, you're wearing it. It's not that big of an issue. But at the same time, looking back, he jumped into all the different situations that I was in and was able to use and move forward with those people, situations. And everybody can call each other, put their arm around each other and smile about, you know, those what we would quote, the good old days. Meaning growing up we would quote the good old days. Meaning growing up is, are those the good old days? Yeah. As far as, you know, when you reflect back and look on the path and the process,

everybody can sit there and smile and go, yeah, those, those good old days when we did this, or when we goofed off and did that or when we ran this race setup and that helped us win this race and then get recognized on tv and then that sponsor called you know those and those things still happen to this very day what is it like competing with your brother in an environment that you know um is incredibly dangerous 200 and whatever miles an hour racing and rubbing. What is that like when it's a real risk? And I'm not talking about a risk of ankles and knees. I'm talking about real risk that you're engaged in. What is that like to compete at the highest level in a dangerous sport?

I think the synergy that him and I have, the sibling value and the rivalry that's there, but also the way that we were raised with our race cars's the ability to know what a team owner is thinking about a sponsor and to have the two minds thinking together as one and being able to position ourselves for success and to, you know, be, be that, um, that benchmark where if he's doing something and I thought it might've been, uh, better to do it this way. And it turns out successful. It helps me absorb that quicker and to be able to apply that to my daily life and to utilize that for success. And so the two of us have always been there pushing each other. I think that that's driven us to more successes, similar to Venus or Serena Williams, to Eli and Peyton Manning. You see different siblings in sport. And when there's that powerful synergy between the two of them, they're both very successful and they both push each other to greatness. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentus. When it comes to high

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And together, these foundational nutrients support muscle recovery, brain function, and long term energy. They're part of my daily routine. And if you're ready to fuel your brain and body with the best, Momentous has a great new offer just for our community right here. Use the code Finding Mastery for 35% off your first subscription order at livemomentous.com. Again, that's L-I-V-E momentous, M-O-M-E-N-T-O-U-S, livemomentous.com and use the code Finding Mastery for 35% off your first subscription order. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Felix Gray. I spent a lot of time thinking about how we can create the conditions for high performance. How do we protect our ability to focus, to recover, to be present? And one of the biggest challenges we face today is our sheer amount of screen time.

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into deep work, they also help me stay focused for longer without digital fatigue creeping in. Plus they look great, clean, clear, no funky color distortion, just good design, great science. And if you're ready to feel the difference for yourself, Felix Gray is offering all Finding Mastery listeners 20% off. Just head to FelixGray.com and use the code FindingMastery20 at checkout. Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y.com and use the code FindingMastery20 at FelixGray.com for 20% off. Okay, walk me through what happens inside of you when you're about to run your car into your brother's car, you know, cause you're pissed or, you know, you're going to, um, take someone else's, you know, bumper or whatever. And like, cause you get pissed and, and I also want to double tap on that and understand what it is like for you. And I'm asking you two questions. We'll see where we go with them. But what is it like to be tagged as GQ's one of the most hated athletes? That's a

big deal. I really have no idea how somebody handles that. So I want to understand the anger. And sometimes you use your car. Sometimes you use words. I think you used a helmet. Did you use your car sometimes you use words i think you used a helmet did you use a helmet something happened i have not no okay you can use a helmet okay but so like i want to understand because people don't talk about anger enough we express it but people don't talk about what it's like inside before the anger what it it's like after the anger. And then because of that, you got tapped as being GQ's 10 most hated, I can't remember the exact title, athletes. So let's play in the space a little bit. Yeah, I think the anger and the drive and determination, the fire in the belly, that desire to succeed is something that pushes certain individuals.

And harnessing that anger into success is hard for a lot of people to digest. It's hard for a lot of people to comprehend on when you're driving a race car and you're feeling all four tires and the aerodynamics. And when somebody crosses your path or does something wrong, or the crew has a mistake, you know, I feel like that was my opportunity to win. And then there isn't, and you're devastated, but yet you can still push through and use that anger as motivation.

That's something that I guess I grew up with, with watching my dad. My little brother has it. There's greats in the world of motorsport that we read about and hear about, like A.J. Foyt is a very tough Texan and raised in a certain manner that he would push hard and use that anger and use that as intimidation to put fear into others. Tony Stewart, a guy that I raced for, who's a multi-time champion in NASCAR and IndyCar, he has that same drive. And when you have these moments as a young competitor, as a young athlete, and you're in your young 20s and you end up labeled as the third most hated athlete in 2006 well what's great is that I was with a race team in 2005 and when I was switching

to a new team in 2006 that story comes out and of course it devastates you. You're like, wow, how did I get labeled this way? And it makes you press pause, makes you press pause and look back at the moments that brought this up. And then when you really learn about it, which happened a few years later, is that, you know, those are choreographed moments of a sponsor and a team owner trying to deliver you as damaged goods to your next sponsor and to your next team owner. And so I found out the root of how that article came about. That's when you learn about the politics. That's when you learn about what people are doing all the time. People are watching and you learn as a athlete to be able to handle those situations better, to apply a new practice because not everybody's perfect and people make mistakes. And so you have to learn and you have to learn from those mistakes and apply. And then when you're a champion in

NASCAR, yeah, you're a target. Things happen differently. And so those are those moments where I can look back and it makes me smile. It makes me feel proud that I've been through those tougher moments to know how to become a better individual afterwards. Okay. What did you learn from the behavioral standpoint about the frustration, anger, outbursts? So now you're proud and you feel good about what you've learned but what is it that you learned from the anger point and then what did you learn about the way people think about you and i'm again i'm going two paths on you here because they're so intimately related and i'd like to see kind of where you go in that in that two-path question it uh it helped me learn to you know use a cliche here

to pump the brakes and to know that i could harness this anger in a way that was still a positive approach and to use it to get those race wins and to build that consistency and to be the leader of the team. But also now you jump into that Hollywood Squares nine box frame of I've got to do a better job in the political aspect of my job and to be a better public relations manager of my own self and to learn and to draw in more people. I needed more people to support my efforts. And so those mistakes and those situations, it teaches you to surround yourself with better people and to become a better, more well-rounded individual to tackle all aspects of being a professional athlete. Okay. And then what about what people think about you? What about that dimension of

being a human, right? So one, you're on the pedestal. You've got microphones and cameras in front of you on a regular basis. You get that GQ thing, but then there's lots of other experiences, but the GQ thing is so dramatic. How do you work with other people's opinions of you? Yeah, I think early on as a young athlete, you're more influenced and impacted by people's opinions. And you're caught like, whoa, that is completely off of what is reality. And I tried to go and target those writers or those situations. And that's something you can't do. It's a no-no. And so as time has progressed, you know, I've become more comfortable in my own skin. You know, you let your talking happen out on the racetrack and you,

you move forward. And that's, that's how you, that's how, again, you learn from your mistakes. And I think that that's what's helped me in the second part of my career, the second half of my career, I have felt more success and more value with racing, teaching new engineers, new mechanics, the ins and the outs of the sport, having young drivers now approach me and ask for advice. You know, there's less race wins happening now, but there seems to be more value. And there's more that I can take away. And again, I have a great relationship and a partnership with Monster Energy.

And I feel like I'm part of their company as an athlete, as a NASCAR spokesman for their brand. And that ease of operation was something I didn't have in the beginning part of my career. Okay, cool. What has been the hardest part of your adventure, your journey, your life to date? You know, it's hard to pinpoint one thing because I enjoy the challenges that pop up each and every day. And whether it's the, I guess, approach from the business side and the politics and the ability to navigate within, you know, these contracts in NASCAR are eight-figure contracts, and you see the prize money and the winnings over the years of when you win this race and that and how things have added up into triple millions. It's a big business,, it's hard because there's not quite a union and there's not quite that structure set up for NASCAR drivers. We're still all independent contractors.

And so you want that good-hearted, blue-collar value of if I provide a service and I'm one of the top-tier guys, you would expect that in return in pay or in different benefits. And yet it seems like it's a political game of what have you done for me lately and you can be moved on real quick. And so that's been probably the toughest part. For me, I haven't found that synergy with the race teams that I've raced with, with just being more or less patted on the back for the services that I've provided, the wins, and my value. I think that that's been the toughest part. Yeah, I can get that from you.

I definitely can. It sounds like what you're craving is that those deep bonds, right? That value-based, relationship-based approach. And much of your model based on your earlier experience was podium over people. And it seems like the second half of your career, you're saying, wait, hold on. It's the people and the relationships that I'm craving that. And I don't want to put words in your mouth. Is that close to what it feels like for you? Yeah, I think that that's very accurate. Um, one thing that I'm proud of with my little brother and his racing situation is that I was

able to, to help him get into the top form of NASCAR, and then to help him solidify with Coach Gibbs. He races for Joe Gibbs, who is a Super Bowl winning coach, who owns basically the top team right now in NASCAR. And my little brother's racing for M&M's, the Mars Company, run by Victoria Mars and her sisters. Those ladies are so powerful in the world of chocolate and in advertising. And here they are. My little brother has that.

And I love that for him. And for me, the mistake I made early in my career is that I was the one carrying my own torch and just going strong and, and not, uh, not realizing that it's a team that makes it happen. It's, it's not just one individual. And so that's what I did wrong early in my career. And now it's great to realize that in this second half.

Wow. That's a big deal. What you just said, you know, that a lot of people cannot talk about, um, the mistakes that they make because they're still trying to manage what other people think of them. And, um, I guess one of the freedoms of being public is that mistakes are public.

And so you've got some choices like, do you own up to them or do you, you know, dodge them, you know? And so it sounds like you found some freedom in saying, ah, man, I've screwed some stuff up here. And then also it's, it's being comfortable with, with those mistakes, but also, you know, I can sit there and look at a Daytona 500 trophy sitting over there. You know, there's the NASCAR championship trophy that I won at the age of 26 that tied Jeff Gordon as being the youngest champion. But those are things that I don't have to force feed to people. Now I feel power and satisfaction by going to a conference with Monster Energy and going to their national sales convention and speaking in front of three, four hundred people about what they can do to better the brand of Monster Energy, what they can do to better themselves while they're out in the workplace. Whether it's just simply opening a door for somebody as they're walking in or whether

it's you just put a smile on somebody's face. Those are the key things that I've implemented and put in place where I didn't do that before. I was so laser focused on, I'm just here to kick your ass and go drive race cars. That's the fun part now of balancing all of that. And then, so let's drop into the car for a minute. And there's so much that happens before you get into the car, all the prep, all the tuning, all the, um, strategy that takes place. And I, I'm not sure that folks really understand what it's like to be in a car. And can, I mean, so I had a, a, I spent a brief amount of time at small with not, uh, one of the NASCAR teams.

And this was probably 10 years ago. And I'll tell you what, like the first thing that, that I was blown back by was the assault of the senses. It's so fricking loud. Like the environment you work in is unbelievable. It's like gas. It's like the, the chatter, the, the drills,

the engines, the tie, like it is so fricking loud. And obviously this is the water you swim in, but take us into the car. It's a rare place for somebody to be. And I've never been in a car. What does it take to be in that car for how many hours are you in it doing 200 plus miles an hour? Yeah. On average, uh, three hours is a NASCAR race. Um, and you're, you're belted into your, to your favorite seat in the world. You know, the, the seat that we have is a carbon fiber shell with the seat insert that's poured in around you. And you feel every aspect of that seat. You need every square inch of your body protected with the seat and the crash absorbing material. When you pull down those seat belts and you tie everything in tight, it's one of the best

feelings to know that you're protected and you have this invincibility of I'm going to succeed. I'm going to push through. I'm going to be smarter than these other guys. I'm going to absorb more in my peripheral vision. There's these small things that I learned early on that if there's just a small faint of a smell inside the car, you learn to dissect it. What is this? Is this a rubber smell? Is this an electrical smell? Is this an oil? Is this a fuel? What are these fumes that I'm seeing and now smelling? And now you have to apply a reaction and to know which one is which and that's how you inform your team on how to stay on top of things whether it was a tire rub or it's a mechanical

thing and you try to get the problem resolved as quickly as possible and that's just that's using smell then you have hearing and the sensory around you on, you know, when you have a good corner exit of, of a race corner, you feel you can, you hear the engine RPMs are up and you know, you're going to go down that straightaway fast, then faster than you did the lap before. And that's how you catch guys or continue in the lead uh there's that seat in the pants feel of the g-forces of sliding through the corners of hitting the banking in

in the oval tracks and that's that feel of my my talent or what i've what i've practiced and and perfected into my craft to do it better than the next guy. That's what I love about strapping in the race car is using all these different sensories and the ability to do it quicker and to do it smarter than others to obtain that trophy at the end of the day. So in racing, I want to get into mindset here because in racing, you'll never be able to go fast enough if you take the safe route you know and chin check me if i'm wrong but this idea of the edge of the envelope

is that that math where you're right on the edge of being out of control but it's the fastest angle and slide and i guess angle that you can take, you know, where the force and speed are converging together and put your right on the razor's edge of being out of control. Is that, do I have that right? Yeah, there's a, there's a famous quote from Mario Andretti that if everything seems calm, then you're not going fast enough. And I love that quote. But also at the same time, when you are in any business, CEO or an employee, if you're an athlete, when things slow down, and when things are in the zone, like we've seen with Michael Jordan on how when he's shooting the basketball, it seems like the hoop is the size of a hoop or a manhole cover is what Tiger Woods is

putting at when he's in that zone. That's when you're going to that next level. That's when things have slowed down. And it's because your awareness is prepared by your preparation. And your preparation is meeting that opportunity because of all of the steps that you've put in place. And it's the same as walking into a boardroom as a CEO and knowing to look on somebody's eye or to watch their body language or to know that when they're stumbling through a presentation, it's because they haven't done the right things to be in position to win. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth.

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it's not about adding more. It's about choosing better. And when your day demands clarity and energy and presence, the way you prepare for it matters. If you're looking for high quality personal care products that elevate your routine without complicating it, I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash finding mastery and use the code finding mastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash finding mastery. Okay, so Kurt, you're talking about the zone. You're talking about like that space

and you're saying, yeah, that doesn't, one, you need preparation, need great awareness and you actually are using danger risk to as a keyhole into flow state into the zone and how often do you get there you know it happens um i would say a good five to six times in a racing season um but yet each and every race you're zoned in for that and you're doing all you can to find it. And if you're trying to search for it too hard, then you don't find it. Uh, it's when it comes to you and you realize it, and then you just, you, you find that piece within it.

And literally in the race car, you, the car goes silent. You don't even hear the engine running. You don't hear the other cars around you. There's the chatter that's coming across the radio from the crew chief and the spotter. And that information is going in this ear and right out that ear. But my communication and my brain is digesting all of it and applying it and slowing it all down. And so those moments usually turn into race wins. They turn into top five finishes or most laps led. And those moments even happen quick and then they're gone with the pit crew. I come sliding into the pit box, hit my marks, and that pit crew,

you can literally hear the pit guns in harmonic symmetry on both sides and boom you're done your pit stops over and it was 11 seconds four tires 18 gallons of gas and it all happens in 11 seconds and then you're out of there to keep your position on track that's that's when you're in that harmonic balance with the team. And you feel that as a team effort and what it takes to win that way. Are you skilled at focus or do you struggle with focus? Everyone's born with some different capacities and we can layer on top of it some training.

But when it comes to focus, because the reason I'm asking about focus is because it is a second keyhole into flow state. And what is your aptitude of focus? I would say that scale of one to 10, I would be a nine. There's others that are better. I know that I can improve. And I think that I would say nine just because I know I always have to continue to improve and to find different ways of practice to stay focused and to attack different areas, whether it's the car itself, the people, communication, and then again,

you know, awareness to know what to apply when. What pulls you out of focus? What's the thing that is like chalk or nails on a nails on a chalkboard or like, where do you get sideways with focus? That's a unique question. I like that. You know, when there's things that go against the efforts of trying to win the race for the day, whether it's a competitor that pulls an awkward move or wants to, you know, challenge you in a way similar to just over fouling you as a basketball player. Or if you're a batter and that pitcher keeps throwing balls right on the inside of the plate and trying to back you up off the plate. Those are things that

are distractions. But the quicker that you realize that it's, it's somebody trying to take away that effort, you apply something to overcome that. And so, I mean, for me, it's, it's that, I guess, nails on a chalkboard are when people don't put in that full effort to deliver for their task or for their portion of the team, That's something that I think in years past aggravated me way more than what it does now. And now I have to set aside my things that I need to focus on and help that individual get them up to a better par level. And that way, the overall team effort turns out more positive. How do you recover? Because the amount of stress,

the demands, the cognitive demands, the physical demands of what you do are really high. So what do you do to recover? I've been on the circuit now 20 years. This weekend coming up is my 700th start and my body loves this i love to go and travel to these races uh i feel like treating nutrition over the years has been a very important value cardiovascular work as far as running biking the elliptical swimming having that elevated heart rate in training is very important. And of course, the key thing is hydration, is being able to battle back from the high heat in the car, the duration of three hours, and continuing to just keep track of your body in a positive way helps you bounce back and get you prepared for the next race, just like any athlete would. And are you sophisticated in nutrition and hydration and fitness? Like, do you have people that you work with that are dialed in or saying, Hey, X number of ounces pre-race post-race here's,

you know, here's actually an electrolyte balance that's right for you. Like, are you dialed in to that point or, um, do you value it so much that, you know, you're making the calls and decisions? Yeah, I feel like I've done a good job to meet the right people and to find the right situations to, uh, learn from and apply. I've switched it around every three to four years because my body now as a 42 yearyear-old is different than what it was as a 22-year-old. And different workout regimens have changed. I mean, I'm doing this thing as of late called Pi Yoga. It's Pilates and yoga together.

And if you try to teach that to a young 20s kid, they're going to go, what the hell are you even talking about? And so, yes, you have to evolve. You have to adapt. And I think that's been a key thing for me over the years is respecting advice from others, applying it. And even my wife, she's a professional polo player. And her nutrition regimen, when I first met her,

was above and beyond what I was even applying to my craft. And so it's been great to blend that in with somebody that you love. What are you pursuing? What are you trying to sort out in your life that you have here? For me, I love the competition. I love to beat the best of the best and to to have done it over a 20-year period, that's something that is that original work ethic that my dad instilled in me. I mean, he had the same job for 30 years.

You know, that blue-collar style, wake up at 6 a.m., you know, you don't go to bed till late because you're still working. That's important to me that's my drive and that's what I want to leave behind is is my legacy and my legacy is one that I think as a NASCAR champion that grew up in the 90s watching it on TV won a championship in the 2000s and then now is still active in 2020 i feel like i'm a good bridge between the past set of racers and what the future racers will look like and how they will act and what they will do on track okay there you go and then um so we talked a little bit about what

scares you scared you as a young kid what scares you as a a man? I guess it's making sure that I provide for my family, for my wife. I don't have children just yet. And have I taken this selfish approach by making sure that I'm still focused on my sport as an athlete and not having children yet. That's something that I question. But I know that for me, I've always been laser focused on whatever the task is. And I'm ready for that next chapter. I'm ready for children. And I think that maybe that's just a small fear as a 40-year-old that I haven't crossed over that threshold yet. And what's it like for you to see NASCAR take a stand for the Confederate flag? And I know that they are one of the first to take as a league to take action.

And so what is that like? And I don't quite understand the relationship between NASCAR and the Confederate flag other than the Southern nature of it, of the sport. So can you just walk me through that just a little bit? Yeah, I think it was a stand that NASCAR took for many different reasons. And a small history story about NASCAR in that after World War II, when a lot of people came back home here in the Southeast, it was to soup up your car and to outrun the law because you were running moonshine. That's literally how NASCAR started. It's a lot of descendants from the Scottish and Irish people came to this region of our country, and they loved to fight, they loved to drink, and they had their race car to outrun the law.

And when NASCAR developed in the 50s and created the Daytona 500, the Coca-Cola 600 here in the Charlotte region, and started traveling up and down the eastern seaboard, the sport began to grow outside of its southeastern roots, where in South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia, Alabama, you see that Confederate flag because, well, the South still thinks they won the war, but they did not. And as the sport grew and now we're in front of millions of television audience, it now bridged to the Midwest and to the Western states. And as we move forward,

we've seen some of the other series in NASCAR race north of the border, south of the border. And so we continue to grow and evolve. And I think this is that next chapter in the sport of NASCAR. And it's moving and progressing. There you go. Cool. And then we'd be remiss to not talk about Bubba Wallace and his experience. And what was that like for you? And for folks that maybe don't know what it is, maybe you can describe it. A couple of years ago, Bubba Wallace came out with his depression and his struggles and was open to everybody about it on how he's had to battle harder than others to get to this point. And I just felt compelled at the next race.

It was at Bristol Motor Speedway. I remember it vividly. He was standing there all by himself before the race was going to start. It's the pre-race ceremony. Everybody's up on stage and walking across for introductions. And he's standing there by himself. And I could just feel it. That's that awareness.

And I went up to him. I just put my arm around him and said, hey, bro, I'll never know what it's like to walk in your shoes. But know that you've done something special. Know that you're still going to continue to do special things. And know that I care about you. And this was a couple of years ago. I just wanted him to just feel better. Just wanted him to smile. And so, you know, just watch him go through everything now and to have that threat. It was

an amazing feeling of the fraternity of drivers all now coming together to support Bubba and to be there for him because we all felt threatened because of somebody in our fraternity was threatened. So it's a great movement. I'm proud of him. And it's tough times everywhere right now in the whole world. And he's got a lot of weight on his shoulders. Yeah, what a moment to see that image of all of you guys rally around him and the courage that he has to be vulnerable to say this hurts, whether it was two years ago and or what happened just a couple weeks ago. had the chance to sit down with somebody who's a master of craft best there is true mastery who is that person that you'd like to sit down with and then what would you want to ask them you know uh watching um the documentary on michael jordan over uh the last few months during this pandemic uh was inspiring it was inspiring to me. My family's all from Chicago,

and it was something I watched as a kid. And to now see it unfold as an adult, it's been a motivational experience. To have met Tiger Woods through Monster Energy and to have played a few golf holes with him and to see how he approaches his craft and to have seen what he's gone through as an individual. To have met a guy like Prince Harry when my wife played polo with him. These are individuals that are of the most elite. They're past the top 1%. They're individuals that when you walk up to them, you feel something already emitting from them. A guy like Roger Federer, I've never had the chance to meet him,

but when you're in an individual sport like tennis or golf, and you have this ability to, to be at the level that, that he is, he would be somebody that I'd love to sit down, have dinner with, to have a beer, and just shoot the shit and learn from one of the top athletes that's been around while I've been an athlete as well. If there was one question, and I don't like being a reductionist because things are not black and white. They're not simple in that way. But if there was one question, what would you want to ask?

It would be the intimidation factor. Roger Federer is a very calculated and talented individual around the tennis court. But yet, I think he intimidates people just by showing up. And how could I have done that better? How could I have applied that to be that next level for myself? That's what I'd love to learn from him and how he approaches that. Very cool. How do you learn?

Do you watch? Do you read? Do you listen? Some combination of all of them. And if there's something you're watching or reading, what are those? Or what have been influential, I should say to you. Yeah, I think it's, uh, it's everything it's reading books. It's watching things on TV. Um, you know, when I was young as a racer, my dad would, uh, record the races and we would watch the greats in NASCAR or, uh,

IndyCar. And then my dad was a racer and I would be the one videoing him and he would show me the craft on what he did and how it is what he learned from those guys watching on TV. Audiobooks. Audiobooks are great right now with the travel being restricted and the bubble that we're in for our protocol in NASCAR, I'm driving to a lot of these tracks by myself. And so listening to audio books of speakers, past presidents, it's again, it's not being set into a certain way. And I think that's what's helped me adapt to all the different changing circumstances in the last 20 years in NASCAR. So, okay. Thank you for your time. I want to round out with just a couple quick hits here is, um, it all comes down to, how do you finish that thought?

Passion. It comes down to the making, making yourself better each and every day. And something that I wrote on my first ever resume when I was trying to apply to a race team. And my objective was to be in the top 1% of anything and everything that I wanted to do. It's pushing and that passion to get to that point. Success is? Something that you have to push for. It's not a given. And when you achieve it,

understand it and parlay it into more success. Blank is the root of all evil. Ah, blank. I would say is is the root of all evil i suffer because i suffer because i push myself even harder than i did before the previous day oh look at that okay cool kurt you. Is there anything that we left unsaid that's important for you right now? to what I've become as a man, to what I've done in this sport of NASCAR for 20 years, and to paint a picture on who I am as Kurt Busch as a NASCAR champion. So thank you for helping me do that. Awesome, mate. Are you going to write a book?

I've been approached by a few different writers. I think that that chapter is out in front of me later on. But yeah, it's something I'm thinking about. Yeah, cool. Okay, appreciate it. Where can we find you? Where's the best place for folks

to stay connected to your adventure? I'm live on TV every weekend running on Fox networks and NBC networks. But of course, for my social feeds, everything is at Kurt Busch. So at kurtbusch.com, but of course, uh, from my social feeds, everything is, uh, at Kurt Bush. So at KurtBush.com, Instagram, Twitter, uh, Facebook again, uh, you know, for me, just love out,

love to go out there and race. And if you're a NASCAR fan or a sport fan, you'll know where to find it. Brilliant. All right, Kurt. Appreciate you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Take care. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify.

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