Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Exploring Human Potential | Explorer, Colin O'Brady

Episode Date: January 29, 2020

This week’s conversation is with Colin O'Brady, an explorer and elite endurance athlete, who has set multiple records and pushed the boundaries of what we understand to be possible.He was a previous guest on Finding Mastery – episode 36 – and I’m excited to have him back on to talk about his latest feat, the world's first solo, unsupported and completely human powered crossing of Antarctica.Previous to this, he set speed records for the Explorers Grand Slam and the Seven Summits.The Explorers Grand Slam involves climbing the tallest mountain on each continent and skiing the last degree of latitude to the North and South Poles – and Colin completed it in a mere 139 days.Colin also recently published a book called, The Impossible First, a bestselling adventure memoir.We cover so much in this conversation including what continues to drive him, his thoughts on human potential, and why he believes many people are settling, when they’re capable of so much more.I’m confident you’ll leave this conversation inspired._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Okay. This week's conversation is with Colin O'Brady. He's an explorer and an elite endurance athlete who set multiple world records and consistently pushes up against the limits of human potential. And he was a previous guest on Finding Mastery way back episode 36. And I'm really excited to have him back on to talk about his latest exploration. The world's first solo, unsupported, and completely human-powered crossing of Antarctica. And previous to this, he set speed records for the Explorers Grand Slam and the Seven Summits. Massive accomplishments. If you're not familiar with the Explorers Grand Slam, it involves climbing all the tallest mountains on each continent and skiing the

last degree of latitude to the North and South Poles. And Colin completed it in 139 days, which has shattered the previous record. So he also recently published a book titled The Impossible him, why he's compelled towards first and, you know, seriously dangerous expeditions and his thoughts on human potential and why he believes many people are settling when they're capable of so much more. Colin has designed his life to experience life and he prepares for challenges because he knows that they're coming. And in his case, they could be life-threatening. And then he gets entangled in those challenges, which ultimately has led to incredible insights. And I'm flat out confident that you'll leave this conversation inspired. And so with that, let's jump right into this week's conversation with Colin O'Brady. Colin, it's been how many years? I think it's been three years

since we sat down together. We saw each other at the Aspen Institute this summer. So it's nice to see you again, my friend. Yeah, it was great. You know, it's cool to reconnect at Aspen Institute, like that center for just stimulating thought and you definitely brought it. Oh, so much interesting and sitting on the panel together and kind of breaking down high performance and stuff was super fun. Yeah, that was fun. Okay, cool. So what have you been up to since last time we sat down and did this?

You, what were the records you set like world's first for the seven summits? So when we sat down last time was 2016, I believe I had just completed the world record for the Explorers Grand Slam. So it was to climb the tallest mountain on each of the seven continents. Of course, Everest, the Denali Kilimanjaro, as well as complete exhibitions to the North Pole and the South Pole. So I set the speed record for doing those cumulatively, 139 days, and then also the speed record for the seven summits. And you didn't just break it. You shattered it.

Yeah, I broke those records. The Explorers Grand Slam by about two, two and a half months. So I think the record was 190 some days. I did 139. Yeah. My God. Like I have come to learn that folks that are interested in what you're doing, right? Like breaking, being first, that there's an internal agitation that sits somewhere in there.

So we're going to get to that. Maybe you're the one that doesn't have it, but I want to get to that. Yeah. But the impetus for this conversation was that you've done another one. Yeah. So, uh, just, uh, last year, uh, completed, um, the world's first solo unsupported, um, completely human powered crossing of Antarctica. Uh, just wrote a book about it. Uh, the book, the impossible first came out The Impossible First, came out this week and excited to share that with the world and kind of recount in detail that journey. But basically, you know, for about a hundred or so years, there's kind of been this idea of, you know, crossing Antarctica, the entire continent of Antarctica. And people have done so in various ways. People have done so using kites to propel them. People have done so in teams. People have done so where they've received resupplies, but kind of the purest form had never been accomplished,

which is a solo, so completely alone, unsupported, meaning no resupplies of food or gear throughout the crossing, and then no aided by, you know, kites or dogs or any sort of propellant, just kind of mano-a-mano crossing the entire continent of Antarctica. And a lot of people, the reason I called the book and the reason I called my project The Impossible First was that people had said after, you know, a couple people had, someone had died attempting the crossing. A lot of sort of renowned people have failed for various reasons attempting the crossing. And so people started saying in the exploration world, like, look, you know, this crossing might very well be possible. Sorry, be impossible. And Jenna and my, my wife, uh, who I build all these projects with, we decided to kind of set our,

sink our mind into this, but also with literally saying like, we're going to call it the impossible first, not because we think like, Oh, people say it's impossible. We can definitely do it by actually saying this might be impossible, but we've grown the most when we've stepped so far outside of our comfort zone. Um, and so in planning the project and executing it, not until the very end, did we even know if it was possible, but I was fortunate to, uh, complete it. Yeah. Like stepping into places that are hostile is something that you're familiar with, but then also doing it first is, you know, part of your makeup, part of your approach to life. So before we get into the why, remind us of what it was like growing up, because you don't, in my mind, you know, you don't really fit the folks that,

I don't mean this in a bad way, but you don't have, and maybe, maybe as I'm talking out loud, maybe there isn't just one clear kind of road. I know that there isn't one clear road to changing human potential, but you've got a unique upbringing that isn't normal in this industry. Yeah, for sure. You know, I grew up in Portland, Oregon, so I was born in Olympia, Washington, but I think my birth story kind of says a little bit about where I came from, which is I was born on a hippie commune. There was a home birth and there was a, you know, I write about it in the book, there was kind of puffs of marijuana smoke. And my mom actually played Bob Marley's redemption song on repeat throughout my entire birth. So

that's kind of how I came into the world. But, you know, my parents, you know, ultimately they were divorced when I was about 10 years old. But one of the most amicable divorce situations that I'm aware of, we actually write about this a little bit in the book and kind of this concept of the word Ohana, which is the Hawaiian word for family, but the family that we choose, my parents remarried. And as kind of from those marriages brought step siblings into the mix. But, you know, I've got five older sisters, I don't really distinguish them like this is my step sister, this is my, you know, full blood sister, anything like that. As well as, you know, my stepmom is close with my mom and my dad and my sister is kind of, um, you know, obviously we don't all live in one place,

but we get together every single year. And sometimes people are confused, like, wait, that's your dad's second wife hanging out with your mom and your stepmom's daughters are like, you know, their kids are like your mom's grandkids, but it's basically, um, kind of a big harmonious family, just like any family we have our moments, but given the kind of divorce kind of breaks and fractures, a lot of, you know, families I've been fortunate to be surrounded by just a lot of love and support and positivity. How did it do it? Because you can, can you see the other narrative, which is the divorced couples, right? The new wife or the new husband like the the first wife or first

husband would look and be like man like this is this is this hurts this is a violation of the the rules that we set out of the promises that we made and like so that hurt yeah that um the wounds never quite heal right and so there's a lot of tension in the relationships. And I mean, my question is meant not to be simple, but can you see, can you really see how that works or have you been inoculated in this space of love and kindness where it feels that what I'm suggesting feels foreign? No, a hundred percent. And, um, you know, I obviously, uh, been out in the world enough and seen other different

family dynamics to realize that, you know, in my opinion, what I've experienced is fortunate as well as, you know, fairly unique. But also, I think that it's a testament to my parents. You know, I was young at the time. Obviously, now, you know, 34 years old, I can reflect back and be like, wow, that would be hard to do if I put myself in that, you know, same environment or their same shoes. And of course, like, you know, was it perfect? Did they have their moments? They have their conflicts, just like any, you know, any group of people there's, there's those moments, but there was just kind of this higher order that I think that they both committed to, which is like, Hey, like they had their kids young in the early twenties. You know, my mom was 23 when I was born and that was her last child.

Um, and they, you know, by the time they're into their early thirties, we're like, you know what, we might not be our forever people, but we raised these kids together. We love each other. And we kind of, they get to make a choice. And as you know, certainly as we talk about high performance, you know, one of the things that I've come to believe around mindset is, you know, we are going to have hard adverse things happen to us in our life. You know, whether that's on the field of play, whether that's in business, whether that's interpersonally, like that's just life, life's hard. And we're not in control of that necessarily, but we are in control of our minds and how we actually choose to react. And so I think it's a testament to my parents to say like, this is tough. This is hard. It would

be super easy to throw up our hands and be like, you're my ex-husband, you're my ex-wife. Like you can, you know, we can shuttle the kids back and forth, but having all the content and be like, or we can choose in their own minds. They made a choice to say like, or what we ultimately want is our kids to be raised in a loving and supportive way. And although we're not going to do that under the same roof, we can still maintain that environment. And they were able to do that.

So you had teachers early on, 100% had a principal life is hard. We're responsible for our responses. And they modeled that, right? And so then, so then life is hard as a, as a foundational principle, right? I don't know if that's for your parents from your parents, or that's something that you've come to learn. I want to get to that in a second. But the second principle is we're responsible for how we respond. And then that's baked on what other principles? That's a good question. Okay, because you can respond with anger, and that is in your control. And you can justify anger.

You can justify, fill in the blank, any emotion, any response. You can justify it based on some sort of principle. And some of the greatest works of writing have dual messages, such as the Bible, which is, and I'm sure I'm going to trigger people here when I talk about this, but turn the other cheek and then love your brother. And I'm sure I'm triggering people here that there's a double click, triple click, that it's really saying the same thing. But on the surface, they know, they're, they're very different. Right. So what is the other principle related to how you want to respond? How I want to respond? I mean, for me, I, I guess whether that's been taught to me, handed down, you mentioned teachers, mentors, things like that. You know, even the, the book, it says talk about a solo

crossing of Antarctica, but the people that have read the book, I said, like, you would think this is about one guy. What is actually outlined in this book is about mentorship and community and family and entire thing about my wife and how we created what we did and sort of the love, um, and there. And so even though it's a quote unquote solo journey, or it's my name on the cover of this book, this is a, I'm not even close. Nobody does the extraordinary. And that means love too. That means, you know, fill in the blank. I'm not just talking about the impossible first.

No, no, no. I know. But I think that the concept for me, and I'm not just trying to keep bringing back book, but this is a really close to my heart, which is the last chapter of my book is titled Infinite Love. And I think what you might expect from a book about a guy or the things, accomplishments I've done is like, wow, this guy must have had, you know, out to prove something. He's got a huge chip on his shoulder and he just like gritted his teeth and grinded out in the

harshest, most brutal environments ever. And for better, for worse, it's just my own journey. I'm not judging other people's journeys, but just reflecting candidly on my own journey, which is your question was about responses. Like I think that I've been patterned in my life to supersede or to go beyond the, that negativity and actually realize that the most power and strength, at least that I've ever derived is in tapping into love, isn't tapping into positivity, isn't tapping into, um, you know, sort of that side of the spectrum of emotions. And ultimately, you know, as I was deteriorating out there in the middle of Antarctica, you know, ribs sticking out, hips sticking out, running out of food, scared, afraid, there's frostbite on my cheeks and my nose forming,

you know, I'm I physically I'm completely falling apart. But at the very end, I was able to push through the biggest longest day of the entire expedition 32 hours straight on the very last day 77 miles. And I literally had this resonant feeling that I was repeating to myself in a mantra, infinite love, infinite love, infinite love. And this solitary feeling in the physical space being as alone as pretty much any human being could possibly be on the planet after 54 days of that solitude, what I actually felt was this resonant energy of positivity and love shining my way, which I think ultimately is from that community, is from that love, is from that sort of orientation towards those emotions. And that's actually where I found my deepest reserves of strength rather than, I guess, the opposite of that.

What I love about all of that is that you're able to actually have credibility in what you're saying. So it's not like you read a book. It's not like you have, I don't know, research something. There's nothing wrong with either of those, but you tested yourself at the limits of being physical as a human. And underneath of that, the core principle driver is love for you. 100%. And so on that loving piece, so you've got three principles that we're talking about so far. You've got the world is hard. It's your response, your responsibility, the way you respond.

And the third is the way you want to respond is in alignment with love. Okay. So now let's go, let's pull on that thread of love love of what great question i love this so i love sitting down with you mike it's amazing love what kind of love so i think that there is of course you know when people maybe share the word love at least well first thing that pops into mind often would be i guess romantic love um but that's i don't think that's not what I'm, what I'm talking about here and really kind of the orienting my sort of framework around.

To me, I think it's love in the terms of empathy, in the terms of compassion, in the terms of, you know, you hear a meditation teacher say like, oh, I wish all beings were happy, that type of thing. Just the general love of humanity, kindness, warmth. You wouldn't enjoy this conversation if I just said, Oh, that's wonderful. No, no, I want to pray. So then why, why that? Why, why do you want, why do you think maybe teachers want that? You know, the teachers of wisdom are centered around this concept of love. And I'm asking you in a particular way, because not that you're a spiritual guru, but you're speaking about the same thought patterns and principles that the most influential people across the planet have ever talked about Jesus, Confucius, Buddha, Muhammad, fill in the blanks. Okay. So why? I don't know so much why, but I will say from my own experience, um, that again,

you had just told you I was born in a hippie commune. So obviously I wasn't raised in the most traditionally religious way. Um, that said, when you're out there alone, pushing your limits, I think that you're testing some level of your own, uh, sort of existentialism or spirituality or all of that. And there was definitely a curiosity. I mean, the reason I've continued to push my bodies in the way that I do, and certainly with this solo Antarctica crossing was to find out what was there, what was actually within in a pure way, not no cameras on. What does that mean? What was there? What is inside of me? I actually curiosity of going rather than saying like, if I do this outcome, I'm going to find out X about myself.

This is what's going to happen. I'm going to feel proud of standing on the do this outcome, I'm going to find out X about myself. This is what's going to happen. I'm going to feel proud of standing on the mountaintop or I'm going to whatever. So for me, let me go a little bit deeper. I'll try to articulate what I'm trying to say, but better. When I left on the impossible first crossing, I deleted almost all my music, almost all my podcasts. Antarctica is 24 hours of daylight. So it's this disorienting, you know, sun is high noon and it's white and empty white forever. Either if it's a whiteout or I can see for a hundred miles or whatever,

how far you can see on the horizon, but it's just white nothingness. And I thought to myself, well, one way to distract my mind the entire time, you know, listen to music and like, you know, whatever, or I can actually lean into the solitude, the depths of my mind and actually with a curiosity of what's inside of there. And let me tell you, that is a scary place. I've often joked. I've said it's like throwing a party inside your brain and all of your angels and all of your demons are invited. And there's no way to get away from it.

I'm alone. There is no distractions. And if I make a mistake, like the stakes out there are potentially fatal. But the curiosity drove me to see like, but what is in the depth sort of, of my core inside of there. And although I potentially had some hypotheses or theses, it was more just an actual curiosity of observation of my own brain chemistry, body, mind. And what I was brought back to is what I'm saying. And I think what you're saying, what other sort of spiritual teachers have spoken about in all sorts of different, um, you know, sex, religion, et cetera, was this

concept of this resonant energy, this resonant positivity, this resonant love transcendence, whatever you want to call that. And these, you know, I, I use the word flow state, although maybe that's, I'm not sure if that's the right word, the wrong word, you can tell me if it's not, but I, for me, you know, tapping into that flow in my brain, this completely presence is completely sort of intense place, but that's also blissful. That's also focused. Um, all those things for me came from this place of this, you know, resonant, positive energy that I really connected to when I was out there and continue to. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentus. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying

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And if you're ready to feel the difference for yourself, Felix Gray is offering all Finding Mastery listeners 20% off. Just head to FelixGray.com and use the code FINDINGMASTERY20 at checkout. Again, that's Felix gray. You spell it F E L I X G R A Y.com and use the code finding mastery 20 at Felix gray.com for 20% off. So how do you move through? There's like phases and let me see if I can describe the way I understand it. So you set out and you've got a mission. And part of that mission is to understand you better. But you also want to do something that others are going to recognize

that you've done. So you've got this dual path, right? Otherwise, you wouldn't, you wouldn't talk about it. Right. Right. And so in this in the surfing world, you know, there's two types of cultures, there's the hardcore, the core, you know, approach. types of cultures there's the hardcore the core you know approach and those are the dudes that um and gals that don't say what they've done yep but they're in it for the purity of it and um i think that they actually like when people recognize it but the approach is the downgrade like the intensity of it right like oh it was good did you get barreled yeah and somebody snapped a picture and it was like 30 foot right as deep as you can imagine right and then i think they really do like it and i was attracted to that culture i grew up surfing i was

attracted to that culture because i felt like there was actually less pressure yeah and i'm talking about myself i actually did like when people saw it, but, but as soon as you boast, it changes the nature of that experience. And then the second is like, Hey, I'm going to do some radical stuff about it, but you also want the purity of the experience. Yes. And then, so there's a duality that might take place at some point for you. And I think that this is many people's duality. They want to be recognized, to be long and to be part of want to authentically and truly understand. So when those two, did those two ever come into competition with each other? No, I think it's a really great question. Um, you know, I think that there's a couple of different things. My wife, Jen and I have often talked about this. If we have, you know, built these projects together, um, you know, I'm, I'm the athlete out there in the arena, but she is walking every step with me, you know, I'm, I'm the athlete out there in the arena, but she is

walking every step with me, you know, metaphorically, emotionally building, creating, you know, as we put our ideas on the whiteboard and turn them into reality, she's, we've been there on all of this together. And one of the kind of early litmus tests for us is she has said to me, she said this to me countless times. She goes, if no one were watching, would you still want to do this expedition? You couldn't tell anybody about this. It's the right question. Yeah. And the second that I say, I'm only doing this because people are watching me,

is the second we know we're not going down that path. And so there has to be a purity and a desire to do that. Going all the way back to the seven summits, Explorers Grand Slam, all this kind of stuff, which we didn't really have much notoriety or no one really cared what we were doing at the time. It was like,

I just deeply want to do this. And I spent two years of our life, like trying to fundraise and build that project out and get anyone to care to like, actually just try to be able to do it, let alone be able to share it with the world. Okay. So I believe you,

but I was going to go, I'm going to go a layer deeper than that. Okay. The second side of that, which is to say, however, I do think that sharing with the world actually has much more benefit. Sure, there's, I'm not going to lie, there's, of course, there's a little bit of an ego stroke, a back pat.

You know, I think people generally like it when they say, oh my God, that was so amazing what you did or whatever. However, more than that, for me, the return on investment for this is true of the way I share my story. It's true of the impossible first. People are like, what do you want to do with this book? Like, why do you care about having this book in the world? I was like, I'm sharing my story. And my hope not is that when someone sets this book down, that they call me up or write me a DM on Instagram, whatever, and say like, oh my God, like such an incredible story. Wow. I could never do that. My hope is that by sharing that story with the world, someone sets the book down and goes, what's my impossible first? Like that guy, he shared vulnerably about the ups and downs,

the failures, the doubts, like he's actually a pretty relatable human being has the entire spectrum of the human experience was able to achieve this. What can I then go achieve in my own life? People actually taking that action. Because when I think about what I've been inspired by, and I write about this, I know you're an Olympics aficionado. I write about the Olympics in this book a little bit because I was obsessed with the Olympics when I was a kid. Pablo Morales wins a gold medal in 1992 in the Hunter Butterfly. I was a little kid in Portland, Oregon with no money, but with TV set. And I watched that happen. And it vastly changed the trajectory of my life because my mom started sitting there going like, maybe one day you can make the Olympics call. What do you want to do? And let's talk about goals.

I joined the local swim team, ultimately swam in college. Like it set me on a path and had Pablo Morales or NBC or Bob Costas or whatever, not put his story on a television set. I never would have been impacted by his greatness, thus taking the action towards those steps in my own life. And so I believe that when we do share our stories or the surfer that you're talking about, him being, you know, an asshole or being like, Oh my God, I snapped the sickest, like kick turn off the top of that, you know, the lip and like the bear was awesome. I'm so rad. Like that's a little annoying. Right. But like, if he's like, if he's like, man man like i've been beating on my craft i've been out there every day the swells lining up like the wind was perfect today and i nailed it and i just

felt so amazing in this like that's like man i'm like a little kid surfing or i'm a little grom watching that i'm like man like okay like i'm gonna keep putting in my workout here i'm gonna this so i think that we have the ability to uplift and inspire and the power of storytelling and sharing of that is actually tremendously valuable to humanity at large. I believe it. I really believe it. And I think you walk this fine line, um, with, uh, with people, I believe you a hundred percent. I'm going to say that, right. But there's this fine line that's happening right now of people that are setting out to be first and do first. And it just feels inflated right now, you know? And so you're at ground zero of this.

Yeah. And I want to make sure that I'm really clear. So I'm going to say it a third time. Like knowing where you came from, the young experience of having this dynamic family system that's unique, burning yourself nearly to life. Was it Indonesia? No, Thailand, Thailand. How many, what percentage of your body was burned? 25% of my body was burned, mostly my legs and feet. And the doctors said to me, you know, very straight in the eye, look, Colin, you'll probably never walk again. Normally, right. It was 12 years ago this week. And you're in a deplorable condition in healing.

Cats walking around your bed, you know, like 30. Yeah. And you didn't believe them. Yeah. Or I would say that I was guided by my mother's love and positivity because my mind immediately went to the darkness and said, you know, my life is, you know, potentially. That's right.

Your mom flew out. And she flew out there and she goes, she was crying and pleading with the doctors in the hallway, full of fear and doubt as anything parent would in that. But she kind of made this choice. And as she walked into my hospital every single day, the smile on her face, this air of positivity saying, Colin, like the doctors are saying this, but like, that might not be true. Let's imagine a future where that's not true. Let's work towards some goals to get you beyond this and really just wrap me up. And I kind of dove into the, the flood or stream or, uh, uh, current of her positivity. And it definitely took me out of that darkness and I was able to achieve on the other side of it. When you talk about it right

now, you, your physiology just changed. I don't know if you felt it, but so where, where do you feel it in your body when you talk about it? Oh, gosh, it's a hard thing. I guess in the chest a little bit is where I'm feeling it right now. But the feeling of that moment was so intense and the stakes were so high. But more than anything, I just when I really reflect on it, mostly what comes to my mind is just this gratitude towards my mother and understanding as I've gotten older, I don't have kids myself yet, but certainly hope to in the next couple of years and imagining how scary that would be to be in a tiny little hospital with, you know, a cat running around the ICU and seeing your kid in this helpless state. And I was literally screaming and crying

and writhing in pain. I had no skin on the lower half of my body. And for her to somehow summon the courage, um, in that moment to realize what I needed was not more fear was not more doubt. There wasn't a fear and doubt, you know, permeating the entire essence of my being and to somehow conjure up, um, the emotional sort of clarity, uh, and positivity to guide me through that with her, her positivity. I just, it's hard for me to kind of fathom. I love, I, I love it because she knew what happens for many people is they see something that's horrific and then they have, they're engrossed with their response, right? The emotional flood that takes place of fear and maybe even anger.

What were you doing? Jump roping a right you know on what it was a fire jumping a flaming jump yeah being a dumb 22 year old kid basically probably drinking you know like what were you doing you know and so that would i can see that narrative but she's like i don't know i'm getting my shit right yeah i'm coming in here and i'm gonna help him change his narrative so she disrupted the narrative completely. Yeah. And the narrative was, you're not going to walk. Um, like how long did it take you to walk again? A few months. Yeah. Yeah. So when I, I was in the Thai hospital for a couple months and finally flown back to the United States, I still hadn't taken a single step. I was in a wheelchair carried on off the plane.

And then my mother kind of helped me walk. Um, is that because of the burns or the muscle damage or nerve damage? Yeah. So the burns, burns, initially the trauma of the burns, but the burns kind of went so deep that they were impacting the tendons and some of the muscle and stuff like that, which is why they thought I wouldn't walk normally because they didn't think I would regain full range of motion in my knees and ankles and the flexibility of the joints and things like that. How did you do that? Were they wrong or did you figure out a way to kind of?

A little bit of both. Obviously, the medical care in Thailand wasn't maybe as crystal clear as it would have been in the United States. Once I was in Bangkok, actually, the medical care was good, but I was in a really rural place. It was like a nursing station, basically, on this rural island. And so they might not have had the best trained. The cat sums it up for me. Yeah, there was literally a cat running around my bed and across my chest, this kind of makeshift ICU.

And they're like, this is fine. You're coming out of surgery and you have like open wounds everywhere. This cat's just like our friend. And you're like, okay, this is not good. Um, but, uh, you know, yeah, fortunately when I finally got back to the United States, I was in some good care and some great physical therapy. And, and also, you know, I'll bring it back to my mom, but you know, I tell this story often of her, I was sitting in a wheelchair and she puts a wooden chair in front

of my wheelchair and she goes, today, your goal is to take your very first step, you know, get out of that wheelchair, you know, get into that one chair in front of you is that you're like, forget about all the other goals you've set. You know, I'd set myself this goal of racing a triathlon, but she was just like, today, that's your goal. And she kind of just broke it down. And the next day she moved that chair five steps away. Next day, 10, just kind of, um, giving me this kind of little breadcrumbs of incremental goals to get out and take a couple of steps. And what was her tone when she said it?

Was it like, get up out of the chair? Or was it like today, honey, you're going to walk? There was definitely an underpinning of love, but it was also a level of intensity of kind of like, Hey, like I remember she said, you know, I'd set this goal in the hospital, like one day I was kind of like, could have been bravado. I'm going to race a triathlon one day, you know? And she was like, cool. So like you set that goal, we're now back home.

Um, and today's the day when you begin working towards that goal in earnest. So you're going to set this chair here and I'm not going to come back into this room. And it took me three hours sitting in this wheelchair to work up the courage and strength. So it was, it was definitely an underpinning of love. It wasn't like she was like, you know, yelling at me or anything like that. But at the same time, it was kind of like firm, like, I'm like, all right, it's time for you to do this. How did your mom spend her life? Um, she grew up in, um, Chicago. Um, she, uh, went to, uh, Hampshire college her freshman year.

Um, and she, uh, ended up, uh, this is in 1980, I believe, she ended up doing a bunch of civil disobedience and protesting, particularly inside the Pentagon, where she kind of reenacted this sort of war scene protesting nuclear arms. And she actually ended up getting arrested and put in federal prison for, I think it was a month or two period of time. And then ended up, her parents said, I don't want to go back to Hampshire College. You had no chance to be normal. Yeah. So she ended up at Olympia, Washington and all of this. But yeah, no, she's a, she's someone who's very principled, just full of love and kindness and joy and all this kind of stuff. But somebody who really cares about what she believes. Are you as principled based as her? Or have you taken a step further? Like she's handed the baton to you? I think, yeah, both in's handed the baton to you I think yeah

both in our own ways I mean I think that we generally have a lot of shared values and beliefs about the world um and we think they've come out in in different ways in our own lives but certainly have definitely carried a lot of that forward from her for sure post that um was she full-time raising no so she was uh yeah both my parents worked full time. Um, what was her discipline? She originally was actually in HR. Um, so ended up, you know, hiring about 5,000 people. Um, but ultimately at a, uh, grocery store chain, um, that both my parents worked at, um, my dad worked his way up from being basically a store manager into kind of the office, um, side of that. And then my mother and stepfather met working at that same

business in the health food industry. And then my parents, my mom ultimately was an entrepreneur. So my mother and stepfather started a chain of natural foods, grocery stores, um, and it's called new seasons market in the Pacific Northwest. So, so there, yeah, there's about 20 stores. Um, they, they sold most of it about 10 years ago. Um, so one of the cool things for me, um, and that's also before my mother ran for mayor of Portland, Oregon. Um, she didn't win, but she did do that as well in 2012, but hold on, hold on. Like, but it's, this is why I think that, that early experience is so important to set up the context because people see your stuff and they go, oh, I could never do that. But wait a minute.

Well, and I was to say, and I'm sorry to interrupt you, but is that I don't actually talk about this that often, but you've given me an opportunity to talk about something that I actually think is super cool in my life is that my parents started this business. My mother and stepfather started this business when I was 13 years old called New Seasons. Ultimately, it was quite successful. But I grew up very, you know, lower, lower middle class did not have a lot of money. Like, you know, my parents buy me one pair of shoes at the beginning of school year. And that was my pair of shoes for the year. Like type of thing. It's not like I didn't have food on the table, but definitely did not have a lot of any excess in our lives. Both my parents worked full time. And when I'm 13 years old, they come home

and say like, we're going to start this business. We're going to quit our jobs at working for someone else's grocery store and start our own thing. And our dinner table conversation for my high school years effectively was like getting an MBA. Like I just sat there and watched my parents talk about this business. They talk about, you know, the sales forecast. They talk about, you know, sense of data tracking on like who's coming into the stores from where, um, you know, they, you know, basically, you know, saved up as much money as they could to put into the business, which is only a fractional percentage of the ownership and had to bring on partners and all this kind of stuff. And they talked about it super, super openly with me and my sisters throughout that period of time. And when I look back, um, and one of the concepts that I talk

about in the book is what Jenna and I call from whiteboard into reality. And I love it. We're sitting here in your office and you've got a massive whiteboard on the wall, which gives me great joy is that when Jenna and I said, Hey, let's see if we could, I could set this world record for the explorers grand slam. I'm not like a great world-class mountaineer at this point. We have no idea what we're doing. And I said, let's write it out on the whiteboard. I want to set these world records. We want to start a nonprofit that has impact on hundreds of thousands of school kids. Oh, we need, you know, half a million dollars in sponsorship. We don't have a dollar in sponsorship. We have no network. I have no like Instagram following any way to like return marketing ROI for branded partners. We have Google. We're like, Google, what's the difference between marketing and PR? Like,

how do we figure this out? And it's a lot of steps and a lot of people saying, no, and I'm going down a long tangent here, but I look that back to my childhood and go like, I watched my parents take an idea from their principles for something they believed in. They wanted to start a chain of local grocery stores so that, yes, it's a for profit business, but so that they could provide amazing jobs for people in Portland, Oregon and have a huge impact on the local food economy. So they had all these relationships with fishers, farmers to bring those to market in a meaningful way. This is how you're able to straddle the purity of the experience and also the business aspect of being a first. Exactly. And so that's for them. I was like, have they done well financially for themselves in the long run? Absolutely. And so they should be very proud of that. But they also created all of these incredible jobs, paid at a much higher rate, gave, you know, healthcare to part-time employees and a lot of things before people were doing and talking about those things, not government mandated, but just like, this is what we believe

in. We are doing this. We're taking less for ourselves because we want to do this. And so yes, they made a for-profit business, but it was come from this sort of mission driven alignment around local food. And my dad's an organic farmer. And so that sort of formed the basis of watching somebody take an abstract idea or somewhat risky idea and actually go all in on it. And then every day at the dinner table, watch them like there were lots of good days, but there was mostly like down days and fear and stress and nervousness or whatever. But mostly they oriented that around problem solving around the dinner table. and kind of this interesting puzzle piece that they were doing on business. So when I look forward, I mean, I was 20 years ago when they started that 21 years ago, I guess. Um, when I think about what Jenna and I build and create in our own lives and how we've actually

going to be able to continue to problem solve in this sort of expedition space and storytelling, whatever you want to call our business, it It's certainly derivative of the role models that I saw do that in their own kind of vertical in my life. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised me the most is how much it actually helps regulate temperature. I tend to run warm at night and these sheets have helped me sleep cooler and more consistently, which has made a meaningful difference in how

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slash Finding Mastery. When you're at the dinner table and they were talking primarily about the business or they're talking a bunch about the business, you got your MBA, so to speak, in air quotes, is that how did you, looking back now, and I don't want to ask you about something that maybe would shine a negative light on your parents, but I don't want to ask you about something that maybe would shine a negative light on your parents. But I think about this for me too, is how much when you were at the dinner table, was the conversation focused on the family business as opposed to Colin? I think there's both. I mean, I think my parents certainly didn't talk about that so often that I didn't feel like I had my own identity. I mean, they were still, you say that again, like they,

you, you did maintain your identity, your value, your efficacy at the table. It's not like you were discarded for the anxiety of the business. No, not at all. I mean, absolutely not. You know, my parents, you know, certainly, how did they do that? How did they balance both of those? So me and my siblings were all sort of have different just interests. Like people like, oh, you have like five older sisters, right? They're like, oh, you must have all been athletes. Your parents was this, like, not that my parents, my siblings aren't unathletic, but like none of them played college sports. Like it just like wasn't. So we each kind of had our own thing. And my parents just kind of leaned into that and be like, oh, Colin is a swim meet. Like we're

going to that. But like, you know, one a swim meet. Like we're going to that. But like, you know, one of my sisters might be doing something else and they're invested in, in being there if they can or ask them about it or supporting sort of their, you know, desires and dreams. Even how you said it, Colin has a swim meet as opposed to Colin as a swimmer. Yeah. So it was a thing that you did not defining who you were. Yeah.

I'd say that's accurate. Okay. Did you ever say to yourself or to others, I'm a swimmer? Somewhat, but it was never like the core core part. And it's interesting, even in reflection. Um, I, uh, I just did this, uh, rowing project recently and two of the guys, um, that I was there was as a team project. They rode at Yale when I was there. I didn't know them super well in college, but we were sort of linked up because we were Yale athletes at the same time. And it's funny, 15 years into the future, we graduated college in 2006, their identity still, and I'm not, and this is not knocking these guys. I love these guys dearly are like, we were Yale rowers. And they're like in their mid thirties

now. And they're like, they're a Yale rowers. And like, I can't remember the last time ever. I mean, like hardly mentioned it in my book or whatever, where I'm like, I was a Yale swimmer. And it's not like swimming in college was a big part of my life. Massive. I mean, a division one athlete, like, as you know, like it's pretty all in, but it hasn't, never was at the time, nor continue to be like the only identifier. It's like certainly something I value and I did it, whatever. But, um, that's just, again, not knocking someone else's identity or orientation, but that's never really been the way that I've kind of like fully, you know, care I'm this, um, in sort of sports. And I think that that's, you know, shines through. And I swam through college and then I raised triathlon professionally. And then I set a mountain, a couple of mountaineering

world records. And I went to Antarctica and I'd barely done anything in the poles and did this polar thing. And then most recently I'd never wrote a boat every anywhere in it for until two months ago. And now I just wrote a boat across Drake passage. Like I just think it's an easy conversation to say I'm a swimmer, right? Or I'm an adventure or I'm an explorer. How do you define, or how do you, how do you not define it's too binary, but how do you describe you? I am. Yeah, I am. I mean, if I was going to go more abstract if i needed a sound bite i

could give you that but i in this for the fluid of this conversation i'd say i'm curious like i'm curious of exploring human potential within myself and others um you know i think that when people want to um you know put me on television or need to put like a what is that nameplate or whatever that's called like up yeah you know it's usually like colin i guess now it's 10 time world record holder or something like that but even that for me i'm kind of like that doesn't feel like that really you know some colin athlete speaker you know explorer you know even my instagram page is like three different things i always feel weird about having to like just define it um i relate to that as well yeah yeah like in the intro even even on this, on Finding Master, I say by trade and training, you know, like there's, but I'm a sports psychologist, but there's so much,

there's so many other dimensions. Like all humans are multidimensional. Yeah. Not limited to just the tag, but that be what we're circling around is this concept of identity foreclosure and people that foreclose their identity towards saying, I am fill in the blank and entrepreneur, I am whatever it is. And life folds in around that. You will get some momentum. You'll get a critical mass because you've chipped all in. However, there, the cost to pay is great. It's yeah. It's interesting. Cause I think it's funny, because I actually see it, I see both sides of the sort of the cost benefit of that. On one hand, I do think that you get strangely pigeonholed if you're like, I'm this because it makes it that becomes your identity. So it becomes harder to like shift off of that. You're like, I'm a lawyer. And I've said that

people for last year, I went to law school, and now I'm a lawyer. And then like 10 years on, I was like, I actually don't like being a lawyer. But like, who am I if I'm'm not a lawyer? But at the other, the other side of that spectrum, I was actually just giving the sort of opposite piece of advice to a friend of mine. Um, you know, I do a lot of, you know, public speaking corporations and things like that. And he was like, I'm trying to get into speaking. Like, you know, what do you think? What are your advice? Like, you know, give him some piece of advice. And I was like, well, do you call yourself a speaker? And he was like, well, no, because I'm not doing it that much yet. And I was like, one of my first pieces of advice actually be like, if you want to be a speaker and be a professional speaker as part of what he does, like you should start identifying yourself

publicly as, well, I'm someone who speaks, you know? And so it's, it's funny because I, more on the other side of the coin, which is, I think of myself as multidimensional and things like that. But at the same time, like, because of the society that we live in, it is also easier for people to be like, they're like, Oh, that guy, oh, he speaks because he calls himself the speaker. So when I'm thinking of a speaker, I should call up the guy who speaks, you know, I should call up the lawyer, because he's a lawyer. And I know the guy who's a lawyer, because I need a lawyer to do this contract or whatever. So to me, it's like, there's two sides of that. But more than anything, I think that when we get pigeonholed into a personal identity around a singular concept, it can be suffocating. I love the

range you have. Like you can see both sides. And like thought experiments are fun for me. Me too. I love them. Yeah. It oftentimes will drive like my wife crazy. Well, she'll say, did you see that or notice that? And I say, yeah, well, you know, it could have been, and I'm having a thought experiment and she's like, you're disagreeing with me. You know, like, but so I, sometimes I think I do it too much. And so, you know, but as a thought experiment, if, can I have one with you? Yeah, let's do it. Yeah.

What happens if, you know, you have spent the last 15 years, 12 years of your life, actually more like 20 years, your life tapping into the physical nature of you and using your carriage as a way to share stories and have experiences that are world leading, not just world class. What happens if that goes away or when that does go away? What, what would that be like for you? You know, there's definitely, I think any, you know, to define air quotes, but any athlete or professional athlete, um, certainly confronts that in some regard, which is, you know, retirement, or, you know, I can do this with your body. Um, you know, fortunately in the things that I do of endurance sports, I think there's a little bit longer runway than there is for say,

uh, female gymnast or something like that, just in general terms. But one of the things that's been definitely one of the most meaningful experiences of my life, but certainly when I think about this, is the internal journey and my curiosity around that of the body, spirit, and mind. Ten years ago, I was introduced to my first 10 day Vipassana meditation, um, journey. How long ago? Um, 2011, so almost 10 years ago. Um, and that had a wild, I was racing triathlon at the time. Um, and my friend's wife shows up, uh, to a triathlon, a professional triathlon race earlier in my professional triathlon career. And she pulls me aside after the race and she goes, she was only there because my buddy was there. She's like, you know, I'm not really into professional sports. I've never really been at sporting events. She's

from Turkey. And she's like, but it's such a mental thing that you guys are doing out there. And she's like, so tell me about your mental training. Just like a super earnest question. And I was like, um, uh, I was like embarrassed. I was like, I didn't have, I was like, I do like visualizations and stuff. And she was like, wait a second. You were telling me like you guys push your body that hard, the best athletes in the world are racing each other. And you're not doing something every single day as a daily practice to actually cultivate the strength of your mind. And I was like, caught with my pants down. I was like, uh, no. And so I was like, do you have any recommendations? And she recommended to me,

she was like, well, you know, I think it'd be valuable for you, but you should try this 10 day silent meditation retreat. So for people that don't know of a pasta meditation retreat, there's, you know, 250 or 300 centers around the world, completely free to go 10 days, no reading, no writing, no eye contact. I had never meditated a single minute in my entire life, but as you can probably tell from my life story a little bit, I was kind of dive headed first into the deep end type. I was like, great, sign me up. I'm going. And I went there to cultivate, I am bringing this back to your initial question about the end of my athletic career at some point, but I went there thinking, great, now I want to learn this meditation practice so that I can be a better athlete. That was my sort of A to B goal

in being there. So I go there 10 years ago and I have a really meaningful experience. It's challenging. It's hard. I've never meditated before. My back is sore, you know, all the things, but ultimately I get through it. And yes, if it didn't make me a better athlete or I had some physical or mental like sort of training or skills at this point that I could take into my daily life a hundred percent. But that was probably like the 20th most meaningful benefit of doing those 10 days. All of a sudden I gained more insight into, like you said, awareness, love, wisdom, compassion, all these things. And so I have gone back and repeated those 10 days. Um, several times I try to go every year if I can, or every other year I have a daily meditation practice and thus.

And to answer your initial question, it's what I have found in those moments of the stillness and the solitude. And what I write about in the last chapter of my book, Infinite Love, when I'm making this final push and this intense like solitude, whatever, although it's in a physical spectrum. Ultimately, what I found was, you know, it's been said many times, but I found inner peace and happiness completely from within. And so that gives me at least confidence as I move forward to say, if all of this goes away, all of the, you know, anyone wanting to interview me or the ability to write a book or the ability to set world records or the ability to do the things that I guess I'm sort of more or less identified as or with in the world right now, I have actually found some of my truest, happiest, peaceful, loving moments with nothing, with nothing alone in Antarctica, with nothing sitting in silence on a meditation pillow.

And to know that makes me feel happy about the future, like if all this goes away like i'm also really really good that's rad i almost want to stop now because that's the essence of this path of mastery of self through craft is the humanity in it is to understand how peace happens to understand how a full alignment of mind, body, spirit happens. And when that takes place, the inner experience is in and of itself, autotelic in and of itself is the reward. Yeah. And so, you know, when we're chasing the externals, validation, money, this, that, and the other, uh, they're fleeting. And that's the difference between pleasure and happiness, right? And so many of us are mistaken. And for a long time, I was the difference between the two and, um, happiness is meant to be a bit more enduring, but then

happiness is only one of many emotions. So that in and of itself as an aim is short-sighted. Right. So, okay. So I'm not concerned for you, Colin, when your body breaks down and you can't be the first wherever. And so that's, it's beautiful, but you have a clear purpose in your life and it's not just to be the guy that's the first, right? It's something with more range there. If you can be concrete, I want to ask what you're, what you're sorting out to be your purpose. But let's just talk about the concept for a minute because purpose in life is a hard thing for people to sort out. What am I doing here? It's a big question and grokking and wrestling and like literally I think the word is wrestling with big ideas, like the most important ideas is necessary. You can hum through life right on the surface.

And I think you'll get exactly what that would indicate, a surface based type life. There's so much more to us. So let's just talk about purpose. Do you have a sense of your purpose? I think so. Um, I think that it's, uh, as well as just any other normal human, I grapple with the ups and downs and the big existential questions. Um, but it's also something that I try my very best to be intentional and think about. I think that people often, um, get locked into a self-identity, like we were talking about, or sort of the inertia of life in one direction or the other,

or you're kind of sticking in one place or the other and don't allow themselves to that. Whereas it's a hard question. It's a scary question. Purpose, what am I doing here? Who am I meant to be? But I try to intentionally ask myself that as much as I possibly can. I don't know how, you know, in a sentence I can sum that up, but I think my purpose more than anything is really to be in service to others. But I think that is interesting in the way I believe that when we are the fullest expressions of ourselves, it allows us the most to be in service to others. And I think that it's very easy from the outside looking, and I can use it as I can see on both sides of the coin, as we've talked about, I can easily say like, what are you talking about? Like you are the

athlete in the arena saying, look at me, how could you possibly say that that's in being service to others? But I think by pushing the boundaries further in in my discipline of human performance i say gives other people inspiration as well as agency to take that into their own life and that could be in anything like i love sports myself like that's my you know craft or discipline but i think all those things apply to art and music and love and creativity and business and entrepreneur you know a million different verticals parenting um one of that exactly you know, you have a million different verticals of that. One of the great jobs. Parenting. You're not there yet.

Very soon. Yeah. You have a world-class, you know, mom and family system. Yeah. So as dysfunctional as they probably are. No, but no, in truth. Yeah. And so I think that my purpose is to live as fully expressed as I can and share that

in a way. And that also means sharing my resources through my nonprofit. That actually means sharing my time to be in service to others actually explicitly, but also to cultivating and continuing to push us on the edge of my own potential so that I can share that or dispel the kind of barriers that we all have within so that other people can take leaps and bounds beyond what I would do. People have asked me about, you know, even the Antarctica crossing in context of history and other explorers and all these things. And do you think you're the greatest, you know, polar explorer?

I said, well, first of all, I would never say that. There's so many people that have done extraordinary things in the polar region. Even though my name could be in the same sentence of like an Ernest Shackleton or something, it's crazy to me. But not to mention that, like, hopefully what I did, and I talk about this concept in the book, this concept in the polar regions called farthest South. You know, the first people trying to get to the South Pole were trying to, you know, push farthest South and took many different people going, you know, I got to 80 degrees South and someone got to 85 degrees South. And then finally, you know, Amundsen gets to the

South Pole just before Scott and they actually reached the South Pole. And that's, you know, quote unquote, the farthest South you can be on the globe. But then humanity continues to push farther south. And I, you know, maybe pushed the edge of that last year with my solo in Arctic Crossing. No one had ever done that before. But my hope sure is, you know, next year or five years from now or 10 years from now, there's so many other people that have gone well above and beyond what I have done. Or, you know, you take, uh, take, you know, Kipchoge and breaking two or, you know, the marathon record on wind anywhere is 201 or something like that. I doubt that guy is sitting there going like, I hope no one ever breaks my marathon world record. Like he's doing like,

well, I did this in this moment of time so that humanity can continue to progress. Oh, I don't know. Some people like their records now. Some people like, I think that's how you orient it. Yeah. At least that's how I orient it. Yeah. So, okay. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know him personally, but at least any of the interviews that I've seen of him, he seems a heart-centered person. I've never seen an interview of him, but I'm just playing with you. Talk to me about human potential. It's a buzzword. Sure. And it has been for 15 years but it's certainly

we're reaching that same place that that really wonky place that i was hinting at with the being the first and the climbing and the you know the extraordinary feats or whatever but potential the human potential is um just like the phrase high performance is losing its meaning a little bit because there's folks that are, they don't know the language, but they're writing about it as if they do. We're talking about it as if they do. And I'm not saying I'm the authority in it. I'm just saying that the, I've spent my life trying to sort this out. When you think about human potential and you throw that word in there, what does that mean to you? Like as concrete as you can, not, not ethereal, not

hypothetical. Like what does that mean to you, your potential? So what I think, again, I agree with you that in sort of the zeitgeist or the academia or the faux academia, all of that kind of stuff that you could get, you know, super lost in that. And a hundred percent agree with that. So I'll try to make, I'll try to answer your question in a way that I think is applicable in the most base level of human, human, uh, human experience, at least my experience. I think for whatever way, I don't know how we all ended up here on this earth and this planet in this moment, I can't answer that question, but I think that there is not a single person that doesn't have some level of limiting beliefs inside their brain or have had moments of doubt or moments of negative self-talk or moments of saying, you know, this is the limit. We're talking about, you know, unlocking human potential, but they're saying, well, what's the limit of my potential?

We have all had that moment in our brains. And I think human potential kind of quote unquote as a movement or as an idea or whatever is to say, how do we move beyond that internal dialogue of I can't, I shouldn't, that's the limit, that's as far or fast or high as I can go. And so the curiosity of actually overriding that sort of, I guess, ingrained human emotion of being, quote, unquote, limited to continue progress forward and finding sort of what the edges of those potential are. And I think that, I mean, that's in a human sense. But I think if you kind of, I guess, technology to me would be an interesting vertical to look at just how technology has progressed over time of just like, you know, yes, like we're sitting here talking to each other that then going to be thrown out through like internet waves or whatever,

but you and I are both old enough to remember like when that was like completely impossible, right? And so, you know, technology, you know, for better or for worse, I think there's some things for worse for sure in the world of technology and social media and things that I've certainly had some negative mental spaces around in my life, but I'm going to try, you asked me to concise. I'm not being concise, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that like, I'll bring it back to something that I wrote. So I wrote a post on social media the day after I finished my Antarctica crossing and I was in Antarctica, still alone, hadn't been picked up, had no idea of news or press or media. This is like me pure alone in my head, like writing something. And I wrote this post called standing on the shoulders of giants. And it was a post

while I was still filled with this emotion of infinite love and gratitude and this connection to the universe and whatever that was like, uh, just an off the top of my head retelling of all of the amazing projects in Antarctica specifically that had inspired me over the years. Some of whom people I'd met in the modern era, people I'd read historical records of, et cetera. And just saying like, wow, like I'm standing here in this moment as a tiny little drop in the bucket of history out here. Um, but only because of all of these extraordinary things that have happened previous to me. And so I think like the human potential movement for me is about stacking, is about learning the lessons from the past, being present in the moment of pushing forward,

and then hopefully releasing that into a world so that as my body declines or my ability to do these things decline, that I can sit back and cheer from the very front row of all the people that will continue to push, you know, sports or all these different verticals forward in extraordinary ways that I probably could never even imagine in my own life right now, because they'll be standing, you know, on the shoulders of many other people. It's how good science works as well. And you think about potential as first establishing the limiting beliefs or the limits of, um, that have been demonstrated physically. And then you want to get up against

that. So from an individual standpoint, you're saying it requires an examination. What do, what wants limiting thought belief that do I have about what I can do? And let me get up against that and see if I could take that a little bit further. For sure. Does that sound about right to you? Absolutely. And I think that that me, that is where we grow. You say we can all do that. I believe so. And then for folks that have a really difficult go financially and they're burdened with, you know, trying to figure out how to raise three kids with a single income making below the poverty line. It's hard. We, you and I, and the finding master community, many of us are not burdened by those, um, limitations, like real limitations. Um, right now in my head, I'm thinking about Abraham Aslow's

model, right? The hierarchy of needs. And it's not that, you know, life is amazing just because you can climb Everest, right? Or travel across the Antarctic. This is for the privilege. You know, these are, these are actions of the privilege. So do you think that that also holds true to, for the folks that are in the fight of their life daily, you know, to provide. Love this question. I absolutely love them because I just sink into this. So first of all, the second you said that before you even said Mass House hierarchy of needs, immediately, that's what popped into my mind, right? That pyramid of thinking about, you know, sort of base level needs being taken care of, of saying like, you know, food, shelter, et cetera.

And then of course the top of the pyramid is self-actualization right and it's you know you have to have certain base things taken care of although there are studies that say beyond what is it like 75 000 annual income that there's a very marginal gain to sort of happiness or fulfillment beyond that that's a whole other sort of economics debate that we can have later no it's related. But it's related to this. But I think, yes, is it really hard to push, quote unquote, the limits of human potential, your own human experience, if you are worried about the basic levels of need? Like you actually don't know where you're going to sleep safely tonight or you don't know where you're going to have your next meal.

Like I've never been homeless homeless but i can only imagine like how intense and scary and traumatic and all the things that the reason i'm asking you this though is because you lived for 54 days in the most hostile environment on the planet one of them yeah so and your home was a rich like a torn tent yeah at some points right with the like tiny tiny little thin piece of nylon, but no. So again, I don't, I want to be on the record as saying like, I don't pretend to know that experience. Right. Like I, that's not my experience. I didn't grow up with a lot in my life, but like, I did always have a roof over my head, you know, I had clothes in my back, like that kind of stuff. Um, that said, I actually think in, in you and I know have both been fortunate enough to

meet the uber wealthy and the famous and the you know this that or the other thing in the world and I don't actually think the human experience of those people compared to sort of what you broke down of the person with three kids and just trying to make end meets etc the human experience in terms of the emotional experience of life, I don't think is that far different from those people. In fact, I often think that people with less have a deeper fabric of community, which actually I think is probably the biggest key to happiness. But what I will say is that I started thinking about life when I was out there in Antarctica, the human experience of life and what we're talking about right now on a scale of one to 10. And I started thinking 10, you know,

the hedonistic pleasure, the highest high of moment in your life. One being the worst day of your life, the scariest, the fearful, the doubt, you know, maybe the day that your close family member passes away, tragedy, I mean, just like the worst like experience of life. And I think in life, we've been oriented, particularly in our modern society, to hedge against the one, to have the fewest ones that we can possibly have. But I think by hedging against the ones, we also don't allow ourselves to experience the tens because we're not taking any risk. We're not stepping outside our own personal comfort zone. We're only seeing, you know, the immediate, you know, thing right in

front of us and not being able to build or grow towards something. And so someone asked me recently, Colin, what's your biggest fear? Because sometimes people think, oh, I must not be afraid of death or things like that, which is absolutely not true. In your book, you say that you're not very good at being alone. Exactly. 54 days out into the wild. Like that's a long time. Yeah. So I think personally, personally my biggest fear but you're talking about that human experience of human potential maybe doesn't have to be in the cutting edge of

being the world's first to do x y or z but every person i believe has the ability to experience the full spectrum of life and thus grow exponentially however i think a lot of people the ultra rich people without a lot of resources and everyone in between end up getting range bound between four and six on that human experience. I do too. They pick, they pick, they're in, they're at five, you know, they're at five every single day. This is the problem of being, I want to be happy. Right. Well, that's what you want to mute all of the other emotions.

Well, I don't want to be sad. Right. I don't want to be anxious. Really? Right. There's, there don't want to be sad. Right. I don't want to be anxious. Really? Right. There's an incredible gift to those. And when they're pervasive, it's hard. We have clinical disorders for that because it can overrun the other more dynamic emotions as well, like joy and peace and excitement and surprise and, and, and, and.

So keep going because this muted thing is happening, there's a cleansliness. Yes. Is that a word? A cleanliness in this world, in our world where we are stripping away some of the rust and some of the, um, pitted nature of things that are true and tested. And we need that. So I think when you say, yeah, absolutely. I agree. And I think that when we think about human potential, you asked me a question about like human potential on a macro scale of like being the best in the world at something, or the guy who breaks the four minute mile or the two hour marathon, or, you know, the best, best, you know, human potential. But I actually think as individuals in this world, it's actually about unlocking our own human potential. And what I

mean by that, going back to sort of this one to 10, which is to unlocking the entire totality of the spectrum of the human experience. And so I think as we, you know, like I said, I think unfortunately our society patterns people, no matter what your socioeconomic status is, is to stay in that range bound area between four and six. I give an example of like, okay, I have a job, but I don't really like it. But my six, my highlight of my week is on Saturday when I can drink a couple beers and watch football with my buddies, my team wins. Great. It was a six, you know? And then my four, you know, my worst day ever is like, I don't really like my job. My boss yelled at me because I don't really care about my

job. But anyway, it's like, it wasn't that bad. It was kind of annoying, but like, eh, I don't really like my job. My boss yelled at me because I don't really care about my job. But anyway, it's like, it wasn't that bad. It was kind of annoying, but like, eh, I wasn't like that upset about it. And then you live this life locked between four and six in this kind of, you know, quiet desperation of this, the muted, to use your words. And people say like, how do you unlock the potential in your own life? Or how do you experience those tens? It's not by hedging against the ones. Like I've experienced those highs, those moments, that flow, that serenity, that infinite love, not in spite of those ones, but because of them.

I wouldn't wish the burn accident on my worst enemy, the pain, the trauma, the fear of that, but I learned some of life's greatest lessons about love, about healing, about perseverance, about strength through going through that one in my own life. And so I encourage people to live the totality of that full spectrum. And that to me is what unlocking human potential really looks like. It's within your own experience and not comparing that to the experiences of humanity at large. There is the zen cones about that concept which is like imagine i think even um the greeks talked about as well which is imagine if you never had um sunlight go or if he was it aristotle maybe i gotta not put a name to this because i can't remember where i first learned it

but imagine if the sun never went down yeah right and you live that i can imagine that yeah but so without the dark you don't know the light yes you know and that's been a spiritual framework a zen cone for for a long time and then i'd like to pull on a couple more things so we talked about the macro and the micro we talked about the zeitgeist of human potential how to unlock and what that means like concretely and then we've also talked about the zeitgeist of human potential, how to unlock and what that means like concretely. And then we've also talked about the zeitgeist of being the first and the balance between the true and pure experience as opposed to the media business. Look at me, you know, glorification thing. You're straddling these things in a really eloquent way. And so I want to double click underneath.

And I know you're smart and I know that you know how to make choices that will work. Okay. That's how you survived in hostile environments based on micro choices. And you're smart enough to know how to play the micro choice right now. So that'll play well on air. Okay. So, um, but I don't believe that that's how you're working. There's, there's probably, uh, two handfuls of people over the more than 200 conversations I've had in, on the podcast that I really want to see when, and I'm not talking about monetary, like winning in life. I think you already are there. My hope is that you'll have more of this in your life. Not that I'm playing any part of it. Yeah. So I really believe what you're doing,

but I want to understand micro choices because I think that, um, what I've learned from people who live an extraordinary life is that they're making many micro choices that are aligned towards something that is true to them. And they're skilled at micro choices. Those that survive harsh conditions as well. The micro choices, uh, if wrong can be fatal. You, you, you live that narrative as well. So can you talk about micro choices that you've been making in this conversation. In this conversation. Wow. Yeah. It's interesting. Uh, question. I love this. That's like I said, that's why I, that's why I come to see you doctor. Not the listeners can't see me, but I'm actually lying on a, um,

a couch right now with the head up. What micro choices have you been making? Well, I guess, I mean, in a very candid way, I know that what the topic is of your podcast, this actually, I think this is an interesting example. Um, I've just, this is super, super candid. Um, I was on another podcast, uh, earlier this week, my book came out on Tuesday. I actually recorded the podcast a couple of months ago. Um, but it's Rachel Hollis' podcast. I'm not sure if you're familiar with her. Huge, huge, huge online following. Really impressive woman. She wrote a book called Girl, Wash Your Face, another book called Girl, Stop Apologizing. I think it's sold more, other than Michelle Obama's book, her book was number two sold in the whole country last year. So I'm like, huge, huge, huge. Now her audience is women with

young kids at a certain, you know, let's say 25 to 40 would be like the common demographic for her. So a micro choice that I would make in this conversation in contrast to the conversation that I had with her, both to me, incredibly meaningful. And I'm wildly impressed by her. She's not a renowned sports psychologist, right? Renowned. Yeah. Hey, I saw you quoted an outside magazine this month. Okay. I saw you on the cover of it. Okay. So don't try to pull that on me. The, the micro choices that I'm making here are not to spin narrative or other, but it's to lean into the audience who is listening. And so in that conversation, although still to my core beliefs, am I talking about mindset? Am I talking about positivity? Am I talking about, you know, the other concepts we've also talked about here, but maybe not in that level of depth that I went there. Whereas here, you and I are talking about a little bit

more in the terms of high performance and talking about other elite athleticism and character traits of that or whatever. And so I guess the answer to your question is I've made a micro choice, whether knowingly or not, to think about who's listening through the airwaves of this microphone and hopefully saying something that A, doesn't erode my authenticity. I'm not going to say something that I don't truly believe in, but that also resonates more with who I think is most likely to be tuning into this podcast versus that podcast. Okay. Are you okay if I double click on this? Yeah, let's go. Let's go deeper because, um, micro choices really for most people, they, you talked about the strategic micro choice, but the deeper micro choices are about vulnerability.

Right. And so they're like, do I say the thing that's true? So it's a vulnerability to be authentic versus, you know, stay the course of approval only, you know? And so have you had to make any micro choices in this about vulnerability or, um, have is, are you practiced at being vulnerable and open? I know your practice at being authentic. I mean, I think, you know, obviously we've got a Brene Brown to thank for putting the word vulnerability into the zeitgeist.

Um, but I think that there's obvious, there's a reason that that's as popular and well received as it is because I think there's obviously so much truth in that and that vulnerability is what leads to real human connection. And so for me, I definitely live as best as I possibly can in that vulnerable space of honesty. And in this book, I mean, I'm not trying to give away all the little details, but like this is not a heroic retelling of my accomplishments. This is a book where I am afraid most of the time I'm in fear. I actually frostbite a little piece of my base of my penis in the book, which I didn't tell anybody about at the time, but I write about it in the book. Cause like that freaking happened and it sucked. I'm no permanent damage. I'm all good. But, um, it was very scary and painful in

the moment. I mean, that's vulnerable. That's honest. In terms of, you know, to answer your question in terms of this conversation, something I was watching in an interview with Mike Pose. I don't know if you know who he is. You know, incredible musician. He was on a podcast and we've become buddies a little bit. But he said something on a podcast that I heard and he said, you know, famous pop musicians, right? He's like, you know, on tour and all these types of things. And, uh, he kind of had a big change in his life and walked across America this year and just kind of was like, I'm not going on tour. I'm going to like grow my hair out, my beard out and like walk

across America by myself. Super cool. Um, and someone asked him like, well, why are you doing that? And asking some of the questions you're asking about narrative and spin. And he goes, you know, for so long, I was like telling people what I thought they wanted to hear in this moment or that moment or whatever. And it just got so hard to keep track of that. So now I just say what I actually think in the most vulnerable and honest way. It's just easier to keep track that way. And so he probably said it much more articulately than I did, because I remember it really resonating with when I said that. But the answer to your question, from my point of view, not just to use his words, is it's just easier to be honest and truthful about the experience, both the good, the bad, the ugly, the ups and the downs. And not only is it

easier and I'm in more alignment when I do that, but I actually find that it has the net product of benefit of what Brene Brown is speaking to is actually, it connects more with people anyway. So it's weird because it's a self-fulfilling thing, which is if I had written a book that just said, I'm Colin O'Brady, this badass explorer, world record holder guy, whatever, people would put the book down and be like, wow, like I literally can't relate to any of that. I mean, I guess it's cool what you did or whatever, but rather I would speak to just like the truth of that experience and how often I failed and how freaking hard it was and how many doubts I still have in my own life and the curiosities that I still have. And not only did sell, it serves both

things, which is to Mike Posner's point, I don't have to come in here and be like, well, what are my talking points? What do I have to say? Whatever. I have no agenda other than just to be humbled by you'd want to have this conversation and reflect honestly and vulnerably. But then also the crazy weird benefit of that is that people more so actually relate to it from that vulnerable and authentic space and actually can

find the essence of their own self in it and like i said at the top of this interview the hope is in reading this book or hearing this you know conversation or whatever is it actually can take that and take action in their own lives because they can actually relate to the humanity in the authenticity and the vulnerability of the conversation. That's really, I mean, how old are you? That's really good. Let's put a little bow on this and say, what would be your hope for one, two, three things that people could do, you know,

to improve the quality of their experience, the range of their humanness. And this is potentially maybe leading to a reimagining of what it means to be fully animated. Yeah. I use a metaphor that is a through line of this conversation, sort of a metaphor through Antarctica, even though this has not been a conversation about Antarctica.

There's a moment where I filmed, I filmed a lot of myself out there, but there's a video clip that I have of me crying, looking into my own GoPro and saying, I want to quit. I want to give up. When tears are streaming down your face in Antarctica, guess what happens? Well, the tears, they freeze to your face. Like it's a pretty bad feeling because it's so freaking cold. Right. And no matter where you are in your life, you will find yourself metaphorically sitting alone in a tent with a storm raging on the outside, wanting to give up, wanting to quit. But what I've come to realize is that when you can put your boots back on, when you can step back outside that proverbial tent, when you can step outside of your comfort zone, that is where

the growth happens. And so I would encourage anybody out there to do that, to take that leap, even in those darkest moments, find that way to keep putting, you know, as trite as it sounds one foot in front of the other or continue to make progress, but embrace that moment. That is that low be like, I'm here right now. I'm feeling that one, but that's going to allow me to feel that 10 as well. So that's the big one for you. Yeah. And then, so how did you do that when you're feeling broken? What did you actually do? What, so there's a micro we're talking about again, micro choices. What, what was the talk, the dialogue, the statement, the thing that led

you to put the boot on? I mean, for me, it's, you know, a culmination and a stacking of all the different experiences of my life, you know, going back to the support of my mother, certainly in that particular moment that I described as the, you know, the support and the love of Jenna and her encouragement of me to face my own fears, to get back out there. But, you know, I think that I'm also, you know, the second, you know, you asked for three things. I don't know if I'll give you three, but at least give you a second one, which is I'm a big believer that we are the stories that we tell ourselves. That we have the ability to override whatever mindset is happening inside.

And when I was most afraid, literally, I almost failed and quit on my Antarctica project. And I talked about in the second chapter of my book, like the first day, I literally didn't think I could move my sled. And I was like, Oh my God, like forget it. The nearly a thousand miles I got across, I can't even pull my sled one mile. And I woke up that first morning completely alone, completely, you know, you know, just disturbed and afraid and literally thinking I might have to quit. And I said, as loud as I possibly could out into the endless white, Colin, you are strong. You are capable. You are strong. And like, I didn't believe a word I was saying at the time. And I said, as loud as I possibly could out into the endless white, Colin, you are strong. You are capable. You are strong. And like, I didn't believe a word I was saying at the time, and I'm like trying to give myself a pump up speech. Short, small, what's his name? Smally short or like the book on the Saturday Night Live.

Yeah, exactly. And you are loved. Yeah, exactly. So I'm giving myself like this kind of fake pump up speech. Well, I will say it became my morning routine for those 54 days. I said it every day after that for those 54 days. And although I may not have fully believed those words in day one, by day 20 or by day 30 or by day 40, that strong and capable Colin began to form and crystallize even more. So be kind to yourself.

You're the story that you tell yourself. You get to choose. No So be kind to yourself. You're the story that you tell yourself. You get to choose. No one else gets to choose. Other people can say mean stuff or nice stuff or whatever to use, but inside your own head, you get to decide what words are coming in and what thoughts are coming in. And so choose positive, affirming thoughts

that will help you move towards on your own path. How about it? Okay, so I'm rooting for you. And so, you know, I can't wait for folks to read your book and hopefully the community, the finding mastery tribe gets into this where, you know, you, you, one day you realize that there's someone else out there with you, you know, not supporting you, but happens to be on their own expedition and that race back and forth. and that kind of thing is an awesome narrative. So from the hopes and the dreams and the planning that set out to do the nearly

impossible and to know that it was going to push up against your limits is a metaphor for all of us and a reminder that there's so much more capable for us. And so you're a beacon for that and you're a beacon and an emblem for you know staying true and being pure and authentic and making the micro choices that line up towards you living in a life of flourishing right which is defined by range emotional range also maybe you know physical range for you you've had all of them so i want to thank you for coming back through thank you for the insights that you've had. And, um, where can we find you? Where can we tag along to, you know, pretty active on social media, um, at Colin O'Brady on Instagram, Twitter, um, all my expeditions. I try to document as live as possible, uh, including if you were

tuning in over this past Christmas, I was on a tiny little rowboat and you could actually see me there as, uh, the icebergs and the big waves were rolling up. So I try to share that as much as I can. So check out the socials and then my website at Colin O'Brady as well. And the book's called The Impossible First. You can check more about it on theimpossiblefirst.com or via my website. And it would mean the world to me if you'd pick up a copy. And I hope you enjoy it. Okay. Will you do one thing before we jump. Will you describe Antarctica, what it was like for you? Let's say, I don't know, day 30, just the environment, the whole, like just describe what, what the Antarctic is about. Yeah. The character of Antarctica. I have often described it as a, the feeling of standing inside the belly of a ping pong ball, just white in every single

direction, particularly when the whiteout happens, you actually can't see anything. And at least half of my time was spent in a complete whiteout, but then the whiteout will come go away. And there's this expansive whiteness, blue sky, but just white as far as the eye can see no mountains, no, no wildlife in the interior where I was. Um, and in terms of the cold, the cold, the average temperature when I was at where I was, was about minus 25, minus 30 degrees, which is, um, you know, from a Southern California boy like yourself, hard to kind of imagine. Actually we had a game.

Did you minus 30? Yeah. Minus 30 at, um, where were it? It was Seahawks against, um, it was a playoff game and it was, I think, I think it ranged between minus 25 and minus 35. So you know exactly what that's like. It's cold. So the way I always like to describe it to people because I'm a visual person myself, but I have a picture, you know, put it on social or whatever. But there's a picture that I have where I took a cup of boiling water and I threw it

in the air and that water vapor turns immediately into ice in a puff. And so when you try to wrap your mind around what it's like to pull a sled, you know, 12 plus hours every single day for 54 days in the cold, like how cold was it? Well, it was so cold that my boiling water turned to ice in a, you know, in a second. So that's Antarctica for you. But honestly, you know, that's the harshness and the brutality that people necessarily might want to hear about. And certainly that I was curious about, but it's also the most beautiful, pristine place impossible to capture in a photograph. And as I'm walking for me, it feels like on hallowed ground, the footprints, you know,

99% of the continent has probably never had a single human footprint on it. And so to be out there, there's very few places in this world that have been so untouched and so well preserved. And so to me, it's just extraordinary in that way. Appreciate you, brother. Yeah. Thanks for having me, it's just extraordinary in that way. Appreciate you, brother. Yeah. Thanks for having me, brother. Thank you. Thank you. Nice work. Yeah.

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