Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Fik-Shun: Dance

Episode Date: September 16, 2015

Shownotes: 4:30: Reasoning behind not choreographing his dancing 7:15: Trusting your instincts and creating an organic experience for the audience 11:05: Why instincts are the necessary choices 15:20: Type of legacy he wants to leave 18:00: How dancing is like playing a game and you're trying to get the highest score possible 20:48: Manipulating the crowd and controlling their emotions 25:54: Why true perfection doesn't exist 29:20: Living in his head in his early life 34:00: Competitiveness fueling growth 40:15: How to take inspiration from those who are better and worse than you 49:40: Defining doubt 58:29: How to learn from different outlooks 1:03:40: How he'll know when he's truly made it_________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash findingmastery. I'm excited to share this next conversation. The guest is most widely known for winning season 10, So You Think You Can Dance. His name is Fiction known for winning season 10. So you think you can dance. His name is Fiction and he's 20 years old and his story is riveting. The joy that he has in life, he explains and expresses through his music. And what he also explains is that when he was younger, he couldn't afford traditional coaching, dance coaching. So he figured out a completely organic way to relate to music. And I'll explain that in a minute he he shares his journey in this conversation toward mastery

and what he's hungry for in life how he trains and this is the part how he feels music so this is fascinating you know it was it was something that i've never heard before he associates different parts of his body with different parts of music he explains that when he feels the bass track in in in a song that he expresses it through moving his chest and his hips. And when he hears piano or keyboards, those instruments that he expresses that through moving his fingers. And when he hears strings in songs, he uses his arms to capture that expression. And that's all his. That's likely not taught in formal instruction. And this is part of that creative process that takes place for people that, you know, have a different path and are hungry towards understanding something

deeply. I think, I hope that you'll be intrigued by how good he is at becoming present and how he purposefully doesn't choreograph his routines. Well, at least all of them when he's on stage, which forces him in his words to feel the music and to get lost in the music. And then that is where he talks about being able to express himself through movement. So this conversation was obviously something that was spur of the moment. You'll hear in the context of how this conversation came to be. But I also want to make a footnote is that in the background, you'll hear a bunch of

noise. to be but i also want to make a footnote is that in the background you'll hear a bunch of noise and we were sitting at a table and he was sliding a drink back and forth between his hands and i had no idea that this would come through on the mic so bear with me bear with us on this i'm definitely on a learning curve i'm loving it so let's just jump right in and get get into the path that led him to now and understand where he wants to go and the framework that he's using to be able to explore mastery in his own life. So one of the things that maybe folks that are not familiar with you is that I want to just do a little bit of background about who you are and then open up a conversation about what you're pursuing in life. Just have a conversation about that. Okay.

Okay. you know what you're pursuing in life and just have a conversation about that okay okay um the way that i came to understand you is by catching on to probably late in the game but a video that you had posted and that post was a dance competition and it absolutely just floored me it caught me it caught me by surprise how i couldn't look away and so can you talk a little bit about that kind of viral spreading in the video and then we'll get into you and your craft as well. Okay. Yeah. Uh, yeah, the video was, uh, the competition is called world of dance and they're a hip hop, um, dance competition. And, uh, what they'll do is they'll host the competition as well as host showcases. And, uh, I reached out to them like two performances before the viral the super viral video went out and i asked to dance on their stage and once i did they constantly brought me back so

that performance was my third time dancing on that stage showcasing and um yeah it was to the song called chain hang low and somehow it just caught fire and i don't know why I feel like it was just I did at the right time the right place I you know chose the right song and um the beauty of it to me is that every solo I do is a freestyle so like um I think what what makes me even more crazy about it is that whatever I did in that video like the fact that it was a freestyle, like I'm so happy the video captured it and now it's being shared, you know, worldwide and it's getting the attention that it's getting. But it's like, a lot of people think that's choreography because choreograph, but it's like, I freestyled that and the camera just happened to catch it that way. And that way was just, is that how you work? Like when you're in the middle of your craft

and you're on stage or you're doing whatever you work like when you're in the middle of your craft and you're on stage or you're doing whatever you're doing you're just completely feeling what you're doing and so you you don't follow a script basically exactly yeah i i tend i've tried it uh once or twice and every time i've done it it's falling apart um and i think it just comes because when I started dancing, I didn't take classes. I couldn't get, like, technical training, mostly because, like, we just couldn't afford it. My dad couldn't afford to put me in a dance school. And he was like, well, if you really want to do it, you can, you know, do it yourself. And that means more than just some people here, oh, you just do it yourself.

And they'll be like, oh, well, I don't know, you know know but that actually means a lot when you do something yourself and ever since I was young and I was dancing and I did it myself I found my own style that way but I never I guess in my mind I always thought anytime I saw dance it was a freestyle whenever I saw someone do a solo like a like a solo even if it was choreographed so I trained my mind to when I dance I'm like like, oh, well, they can dance that good. And it's a freestyle. I should be able to do it, too. So I train myself to freestyle as well as I do to where it looks like everything is on beat and everything is being caught. All the beats are getting caught. But then as I got older, I started to realize people would do their would dance to the same song and do the exact same thing. And I'm like, oh, that's not freestyle. It's choreographed.

But with me, I've already trained myself to just be able to adapt and freestyle to the same song and do something different every time and still be on beat that people, you know, that to me is still freestyle. But people will watch it and be like, but you hit every beat, it has to be choreographed. Like, but I've just trained myself that way

is the way I was self-taught. That's the part that I think is really what caught me in the video was that there's a joy and a lightness, but you are on time. I would never have thought that it was until we're having this conversation that that wasn't scripted that was choreographed so the way I hear people talk about what you're describing is you're calling it freestyling is that they just get lost in what they're doing and they just find this flow and this rhythm that is a complete absorption into whatever it is that you know they happen to be doing and that can be washing dishes a conversation it can be dance it could be any sport can you talk about what it's like to get lost and maybe what we can do together is decode how you structure your life to be able to find that but let's just start with

the first part which is i know i asked you a bunch but oh no it's okay yeah get lost yeah in what you're doing yeah what's that like for you uh you? It's very much so a sense of trusting your instincts. As human beings, we acquire instincts and we're born with instincts. And through training, when you train yourself to do something through hours and hours of practice, it becomes an instinct. It becomes like breathing. It becomes natural to you because you train it inside of your body. So now you have to trust those instincts so that the flow of it is very natural. So when I freestyle, I'm trusting my instincts that I know the song because I do freestyle the songs I know as well as the songs I don't know.

When it's a song you do know, I trust that I know the beat. I trust that I know as well as as long as I don't know um when it's a song you do know uh I trust that I know the beat I trust that I know the rhythm and now to create an experience that's organic because when you perform in front of someone it's organic to them because they've never seen it but why not up the ante and make it even make it organic to you as well as well as organic to them and that doubles the factor because not only do you not know what you're going to do but not only do they not know what you're going to do but you don't know what you're going to do as well as well as organic to them and that doubles the factor because not only do you not know what you're going to do but not only do they not know what you're going to do but you don't know what you're going to do as well but you're trusting your instincts and you're you're just letting go of should i do this should i do that should i do this you're like no i forget it i'm

going to do what comes to me like whatever comes to me on the spot and that feeling is such a feeling of freedom. It's freedom. You don't have, there's no mistakes. You can make no mistakes in your flow. You can make no mistakes in your choices because the fact that you're lost in it, every choice you make is right. And it's your choice. No one can tell you it's wrong. So when you're describing this, your, your face just came alive when you said freedom as if you just found that right now. Yeah. Yeah. I even freestyle when I talk like, so,

and that's the beauty of even great conversation. Like the conversations that flow are the ones where you instinctively react off of someone else's question or instinctively react off of someone else's reaction. Like those are more earnest and truest reactions, even with actors. Like I think the best actors, they always find something real, real to relate to. And they instinctively react to it the way they would normally react to it almost in real life, too. Like when they choose to be a character character they embody that character to the point of well if that if i'm this character and someone just hit me if i'm a timid character then i'm gonna react instinctively how i would react if i was timid you know what i mean so you're in a way

you're acting but you're acting on you're acting on on call like on just freestyling it yeah so you've i mean you're 20 years old and essentially you've designed your life to be able to respond organically to whatever comes up. Yes. Whether there's a beat on or a conversation or whatever that is. I don't know, I'm sitting on the other side of this

wondering if that experience that you get from being fully present, being immersed, I'm calling it being lost, you're calling it freestyling. That freestyle that you experience is the thing that you're looking for most. I think so. I think I like to tell people that I live the way I dance. And like, I really do mean that in a literal sense um so the way i get lost in my freestyle the way the way i believe

that you create something more powerful when it's a freestyle is the same way i believe you create something more powerful when uh you're not dancing but talking or walking to the store you see someone and you choose to say hi to them or you don't choose to say hi um you i feel like those those choices are best made when it's not premeditated when it's not like oh this person is looking at me do i say hi do i don't say hi like when you don't think about it so much you just instinctively react you're like hey what's up and maybe you just met someone very important that's going to be very important in your life that you never knew but you instinctively chose that and before i get too lost in my words, basically when I say instinct, I feel like a human being's instincts are the right choices.

Like, I don't know why, but I feel like they're the choices that we were supposed to make because it's that sixth sense. So, like, I think I try to tap into that sixth sense of dance when I instinctively want to do something. I don't try to premeditate it and I feel like constantly people are always like wow that was just so amazing that was just so amazing like why was it so amazing how was it so amazing it had to be so amazing because it was choreographed it's like no actually the reason why it was so amazing and the reason why you say it's more amazing than something you've ever seen choreographed was because it was my instinct. And I used my instinct as that first choice basis. And I didn't stray from that. I feel like, yeah, it's like the instinct when you're hungry, you eat.

Like you don't really ask too many questions about it. You're just like, I'm hungry. Like I need to eat now. Yeah. You're reminding me of the importance of what you designed designed your life for but just get out of your way like get your mind out of your way yeah so you can just respond and adjust don't get me wrong i believe that your mind comes in handy for a lot of things but i believe in the in the things that you are i feel like you i feel like you guys when your mind's in the way when you're when you're

constantly confused about something and like whenever as soon as I get confused about something or I feel like I'm scatterbrained, I stop myself and I say, trust my instincts. Because at the end of the day, your instincts will never stray you wrong. Is that your inner dialogue? Is that what your conversation is about when you feel tension or you're not on time with whatever you're doing? In a conversation or whatever? Is that the inner dialogue that you have, which is trust your instincts? What else do you say to yourself to get out of your way? Trust how I feel.

My first, my initial feeling to something. Even if, I mean, if this is a point to where I can't make decisions with my mind, I'm constantly weighing these options. And like every time I weigh them, they're the same. The only way that weight is going to change if it's the same, if you add another element to it. And that element is your true feeling, your true instinct. And so like that will I use that as a deciding factor between like two options that I feel or that I'm weighing equally. Where I say like, oh, this has its goods, but then it has its bads.

And I look at this option and I say, well, this has its goods and this has its bads. So now they're equal. And in order to, you know, weigh out that balance or to make it unbalanced is to put something else to weigh it with. And so I weigh it with my instinct. And your instinct is only going to choose one thing. It's very, when you truly give into it, it's very, it it's very literal so it's like my instinct is like you know what option option a my instinct just says option a something about option b my instincts don't feel right about it so that will weigh out my decision um for any choice i make that i'm confused about where does that instinct come from for you

do you think let me unpack this, do you think that you're just constantly taking in information from the world around you? Do you have a sense of what you're looking for when you're in a conversation or in a song or in a beat? Or is it more gestalt? Is a word like you're just constantly always taking in information and i'm wondering if if that's the case how are you reserving judgment so that you can flow i'm definitely mixing taking in information with knowing what i want myself so okay yeah i think when it comes to an internal sense knowing what i want i i do know what i want like it's not I know what I want because I'm because in myself I feel like my instincts

are pure to what I want like I know I want to dance I know I want to try to be the best I know I want to perform for people and entertain them and the sense of like

wait let's stop there for just a moment so we're going to balance this conversation about what you want and what's now like taking in information to

for the instincts to adjust and to be pure and then the other like you've got this hunger for what you want mm-hmm can we just kind of pivot on that for just a moment and in an unpack what is it that you are hungry for like what is it that you want more than anything in life more than anything I want to be the best of my generation the best of my time um

cause in other words you can't be the best of all time cause time never stops but I want to be the the best of my generation the one

that people can debate about and be like you know what all these like all these guys are good but you know

fiction that guy in our generation there's no one doing doing things how he's doing it there's no one moving like him um there's no one with the stage presence he has there's no one with his personality um i want to be a one of a kind in my generation and i want to be in a way like i feel like that's how you become the best at something is by people wanting to refer to you because your skills your skill level is so high as well as uh who you are as a person so I guess I want to be I want to be remembered and I want to be alleged I want to leave a legacy like leave behind something that weighs so heavy that it'll be talked about long after I'm gone wow why do you want that I mean there's no critique in

this but like what's before that what is it that has created the need or want for you to to experience legacy i think because because i've known i've i've uh not acquired legacy but i've i've seen legacy happen myself like michael jackson james brown um people people who have came onto this earth and will never truly be forgotten, that's what I want. Even to the point to where, to be honest, there's kids that are being born now who don't know who Michael Jackson is. And it's because they weren't in that generation. But it's super cool to me how you can still play a Michael Jackson song around them. And they're like, wow, this is one of the greatest songs I've ever heard because it's timeless it's something that that person did that that sold them and that no one can ever take away and that when you listen to it you're just like

who is this like even for the for the even for a kid who doesn't know his know him by name they hear his music and go I love this song I like this song like what is this song it's a new artist it's like no this is a past generation artist that that you love because of his his work was so his quality of work was so amazing that it's going to transcend through time over and over and over and over again like i want that it's almost like that sense of um it's almost like playing a game and you you just want to get the highest score possible to where even after you can't play that game anymore. People are still looking at your high score like, wow, how did he accomplish that high score? You know, and with evolution, there's always going to be someone that's going to come along and like beat it. But it's not just it's almost not just about beating it it's almost also about

what was put into that high score like the hours of dedication the friendships built uh the bonds um the experiences uh the people you've touched that are gonna tell stories about you like that is what i that's what I want. And I always feel like I start that process over every time I'm in front of a new crowd or a new set of people that I'm performing for. I'm like, man, I want this to be so good that they talk about this forever.

Like, and they just want to always be like, but man, I was at this one thing and this one guy dance and he was just so good. And you know what? I can look him up right now. His name starts with like F, fiction. Yeah, fiction. And they can just like go into that and find that. Like, that's what I I can look him up right now. His name starts with like F fiction. Yeah. Fiction. And they can just like go into that and find that. Like, that's what I, that's why I want it. Finding mastery is brought to you by Momentous. When it comes to high performance,

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And when I'm locked into deep work, they also help me stay focused for longer without digital fatigue creeping in. Plus, they look great. Clean, clear, no funky color distortion. Just good design, great science. And if you're ready to feel the difference for yourself, Felix Grey is offering all Finding Mastery listeners 20% off. Just head to FelixGray.com and use the code FindingMastery20 at checkout. Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y.com and use the code FindingMastery20 at FelixGray.com for 20% off. Yeah, because I'm curious about the first part of our conversation was about getting

lost in the moment and that that is the thing that you've designed your life to experience, right? Whether it's conversations or dancing that you're created a way of living that embraces not knowing, right? That's, that's by by definition, what you've done so many people, I know, they need so much control that they can never really let go, because they don't like the feeling of what it feels like to be right on the ledge of not knowing what's coming next. Right. And you've you've gone the other way. You've said no, no, no, that's alive. I want to feel that. Yes. So that's part of what I'm hearing. And then the other part of what I'm hearing is, no, what I want is legacy. I want to impact people.

I want people to talk about what I've done and the mark I've made. Those two seem really different to me. And I'm so happy you said that because like you said, some people want control in their life as far as like to do things a certain way to want things to turn out a certain way and whatnot and you said like it sounded like in the first in the beginning that i pushed for the ladder like i'm going for the one where like i'm not i don't know what's going to happen i don't know what to expect so this is going to sound super weird and crazy but this is how i see it in my mind i'm no different from anyone else who wants control. My means of going about having control is this different. So like, um,

I feel like I have the most control when I don't know what's going to happen. And that's so weird, but it's, it's like, um, if you ask me how I feel when I'm dancing in front of a crowd and honestly, I will tell you, I feel like I'm in in front of a crowd and honestly I will tell you I feel like

I'm in control control of what I'm in control of manipulating them the way I want I can make them say oh I can make them say ah I can make them feel sad I can make them want to look away because I do something gross I can make them want to look closer because they don't want to miss what's going to happen next I have a sense of control to the point to where on the spot I can choose how I want the crowd to react as well as how I want this performance to turn out. Like I create it in the moment. I'm creating control in the moment. Are you in control of you because of your level of skill is so refined like you've done so much training to be able to have a sense of internal control of your thoughts in your body

yes or is it more and i'm trying to understand or is it more about yeah that's a given like yes i need to be able to control my craft in my mind in a way in the moment that i don't know what's going to happen and that's exciting and then I have this other presence where I can see other people responding to what I'm doing right is that what that is structured like in a way yeah okay yeah it's teach me more it's like um it's like it's it's weird so it's like, it's weird. So it's like, I can control, I've mastered the art of control in a wider sense by not truly controlling

the smaller sense. It's like having a broader view. Like my broader view of control is to have that animosity in the middle where you don't know really what's going to happen how it's going to work but it's like put it i basically trust my instincts animosity do you mean uncertainty uncertainty or animosity like anger like i don't know uncertainty

like having the uncertainty in the middle and then embracing that yeah embracing the uncertainty and then making those always putting yourself to make those split decisions in the moment. Like, it's like, and by doing that, I've practiced it so much that I'm skillful at doing it. So I know that when I put myself in a situation where I have to freestyle, I have to come up with something on the spot. I know I can do it because I practice it so much. But as I'm doing it, I'm controlling what's happening as the performance goes on. So like, there's definitely like this strange, it's the structure of it, of how I choose to control, uh, control people's thoughts, control people's reactions. I'm in a way I am controlling how I want people to remember me. Um, because I'm choosing to give

them this, like I'm, I'm choosing to give them to give them this sense of, wow, like he goes up there and he just does whatever's on his mind. He does, you know, whatever he wants in the moment. That's so cool. I'm going to always remember him as that guy. And by doing that, I've controlled how you're going to remember me because I'm giving you the sense of the sense of like what I'm doing and how I'm doing it. And it just so happens that the way I'm doing it is by not being so structured in what I'm going to give you next.

I just go off instinct. I go off what I feel like I want to give you. So it's so weird, but it makes sense in my head. No, I'm tracking because one of the things that I've been able to learn from some of the best in the world in action sports and adventure sports is that they've cultivated their life to have a very similar experience where they put themselves in high risk situations where they don't know exactly what's going to happen. And if they make a mistake, it's costly. Limbs or, you know, death, right? Like, I don't want to be too dramatic, but some of the things that people are doing are really dangerous. And so they purposely thrust their, their entire

existence to be in those experiences, but they're really trained. They're very trained in the moment to be able to respond to whatever comes up. And there's such an aliveness that comes with that. And so I feel like you're touching on that same thing right that same exact experience and i'm not sure i can not that i need to do this but i'm trying to bridge this gap between i'm engineering and designing my life so that i can live in uncertainty in a masterful way okay and the second is when I do that, I give people a gift of being able to experience the freedom of the unfolding moment. And therein I affect how they think of me, my craft, and maybe even themselves. Yeah.

Right? Right. Okay. So does that feel like the thread is there? It does. I'm trying to understand. Because you can't have one without the other. So like the form of... Some. It does. Trying to understand. Because you can't have one without the other. So like that.

Some people might disagree. Really? Yeah. Some people might say that, no, no, I'm going to be perfect. I'm going to control everything in a sense of I'm searching for perfection. And when I have perfection, then the minds of others will be manipulated. But you're saying, listen, I'm going to just respond to the moment. Whatever is there, whatever I'm feeling.

Well, that's because, whatever I'm feeling. Well, that's because true perfection doesn't exist. Tell me more. Like, you can't control every aspect because there's too many variables. The variables that you want to control people, like, whenever they involve people. Items, sure. Like, I can, you know, I have this Gatorade in my hand. I can throw it to my other hand and throw it to my, like can pass back and forth i have so for complete control of the listeners like what's happening is he's we're on the table and right i'm passing the gatorade back

and forth i can control that i can throw it to my right hand and throw it to my left hand and then back to my right hand some stuff like that i have perfect control over there's nothing that that gatorade can do it's going to change that But when you add something that can make its own choice and you try to make a perfect variable around that, that variable is unpredictable. So the best thing you can do is try to make it, is try to influence it to make the choice you want it to make. But then it might just bite you in the ass because that thing that you want to control doesn't want to be controlled. And so it does the opposite of what you wanted to do and that's when things happen where those like you know people in the loop they're like man like i swear if i put all these all this in front of him he would have took the bait but he didn't so like now i can't i'm uncontrolled of that anymore yeah and that's the same with like business and relationships yeah

well a sport is like there's other people involved but the way you've described this is really eloquent that okay i'm trying if i decode what you just said for me is that what i'm trying to do is control what's in my control and i can't control other people's thoughts right i can't well i don't know if you said that maybe i just added that what i'm what i was getting to was that because the idea, because you said some people may argue that you can't have one without the other. The idea is that you need both because of a mix of something that throws it not off balance but um you put it in a sense of like what i do where i put myself in a situation where i can't predict it but but because i can't predict it doesn't mean that i can't instinctively react off of it and then when i'm in the moment put it as what you put what i'm doing i'm putting myself

in the moment closer like really i'm'm putting myself in the moment closer. Like, really, I'm really putting myself in the shit. I'm sorry to cuss, but I'm putting myself in the craziness. And as I'm in the craziness, I'm starting, I see ways that I can control certain things. But only because I put myself in a sense of I have to just go off instinct. And once my instincts are awakened, now you find the things you can't control and can't control. But that's how you influence both sides.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Right. Okay. So this is brilliant. I'm really enjoying this. Okay.

So let's unpack. Let's start with what i would call your psychological framework so this is what we've just talked about for me is like how you're engineering your life and how you think about life and then um can you share how you got to be here like what was early life like and just paint that picture and i'm going to be curious about a couple other things but like what was early life like um I think early life was it was definitely more I was living in my head uh I knew I wanted to dance I knew like I wanted to make something of it but the reality was is that like I was born in Kansas I lived in Kansas one dances in kansas um but i chose not to let that stop me because in my mind i was like

i'm watching these people on tv and they can make it so why can't i make it you know like there's no reason you you can do something i can't do like if you did it then obviously you've proven that it can be done so that means i can do it too. Where'd you learn that thought? I don't know. I just kind of always thought that way. How old are we talking? Probably ever since I've watched performances. I want to say around like when I actually had the mindset to process things, maybe like five, six years old, like watching TV and seeing things on TV. I was like, I can like when I saw real people do TV. I was like, I can, like when I saw real

people do it, I was like, I can be up there. Like, cause duh, like if they're up there, why can't I be up there? They're real people. Just like, I'm a real person. How did your parents influence that thought to say, basically the takeaway is that if one man can, another can, right? If one woman can do this, another woman or man can do this. I don't think this i don't think i don't think they never they ever did and not to the extent of like they didn't want to i think it just was never i think it was never needed i think they i think they instinctively saw how much i wanted it uh an example of like whenever we would go out to like disneyland and like they'd be like

an impersonator michael jackson in my mind that was the real Michael Jackson so I was gonna go out there and show him up because I had seen him on TV I had seen him perform and I was like I gotta show him my stuff right here and now and I wasn't afraid to get out there in front of that crowd and battle who I thought was Michael Jackson and I've repeatedly done stuff like that you're a young guy and you go to Disneyland and in your mind, Michael Jackson's the man. Yes. Right? And you saw that opportunity. You said, hold on, let me go out there and do my thing.

Let me show him. Let me see if I've got what it takes to be able to. To match up with, yes. And how old are you at this time? Oh man, I had, my dad, I had to be like seven. I had to be like around seven or eight. I did not care thank you yeah and I but I've always been like that um so and I wanted to answer this the way I wanted to answer this no I'm not gonna do it yet I'll tell you at the end of

at the end of this speech great but keep us some suspense here yes but um so yeah and then it also you know would come about when i um had to visit my mom by the way my parents um my biological parents are separated uh they were never married but they were just ever since i was born one lived in illinois the other lived in kansas so i would go back and forth between the two um so even when i was with my mom and she would take me downtown, downtown Illinois, there'd be music and they'd be like, we have a dance contest for tickets. Who wants to win them? I was the first kid jumping up like I'm going to win those tickets. Like because I was like, why not?

Like, you know, why? If I want it, why not go for it? You know, so I guess you could say I had an early start of like giving into my instincts quickly. But that that quickly turned into ego, which I learned later after I matured, because as I got older, I went to middle school. You know, I found a group of dancers. I dance with them. People, people would tell me I was the best. I would be like, yep, I guess I'm the best. and they told me I must be the best and then uh I moved to Vegas uh which is actually probably a good move because Vegas closer to LA a lot of people with a lot of talent do live in Vegas so um I moved there and I remember uh going to school there and when I went

to school there I was just like well I was the best in Kansas so I mean can't be much different here in Vegas that's that's my ego talking um and I remember the first in Kansas, so, I mean, can't be much different here in Vegas. That's my ego talking. And I remember the first school dance they had. They were like, yeah, we're having a competition, blah, blah, blah. I was like, well, I'm going to sign up. I'm about to win this. So, you know, I just had the ego, and I won it. But the crazy thing that happened was after that competition, this kid had asked to battle me.

And I thought to myself, I know he just saw me win this whole competition. What is he thinking? I'm the best. You know what I mean? I just won this competition. And he battled me, and he humbled me really quickly. I was like, people are better than me out here in Vegas. I need to get off my high horse. I need to start dance. I need to start putting more hard work into my dance to want to be, to want to be the best. And that's a perfect example of like, when you

already think that you're so good, you, you don't grow as fast as you think as you as in as when you're trying to compete with someone um which is why competition is is a healthy thing people are like oh you're so people who down people who are competitive are stupid to me only because competitiveness you do grow faster when you're competitive and it's healthy competitiveness yeah it's actually one of the early um studies in in performance or sports psychology is that one of the early researchers found that his son, when they would go fishing, his son would have a certain cadence when just he and his son were fishing. And then when his son brought a friend around, his son was doubling the rate that he was throwing the line out into the water. So the researcher looked at his son and said, you know, there's something about this, right? Just being around other people, there's a natural competitiveness.

And that was kind of where some of the sports psychology origins first started. So, yeah, I think you're on it. And the other part that I've come to see is that if we looked up competition right now, it'd be about striving against, right? Competing against somebody. And the origin, the Latin origin, the world word is striving together, right? So you and me, let's see how far we can go together.

Right. Right. And I'm trying to be better and I'm trying to be my best. And when I know that you're sharpening your sword and you're on the other side of the fence, if you will, getting your stuff right, maybe it leaves me a little uncertainty. So I dig in a little bit as well.

Yeah, exactly. You feel that in your life? Oh, yeah. You dig way deeper. And meeting that person who is still relevant in my life, I still consider him my rival. What is his name? His name is Dytrell.

Dytrell Fletcher. uh we still i still consider him my rival what is his name um his name is dietro uh dietro fletcher he uh yeah he was to me he was the best that i've ever seen my our age and i was just like this kid is i really was like to the point where i was like why is he this good like why is he so far ahead of me when i thought i was the best is he still dancing still dances and to this day he still amazes me and i'm just like like he he's whenever i'm around him he opens he always opens my mind um whenever i'm going away for too long and i'm like you know really caught into um doing what i do outside of where i live and i come back and i and we just dance together and vibe off each other i remember like yep i remember why you're my

rival i remember why you make me feel something something because like he has a way of doing things that make me go yep i need to be better i need i can't slow down yeah if i slow down he's gonna get me i wish we all have that person or that you know that that energy where we can say you know there's something out there that i'm chasing right and there's a person that's representing it and you know I want to be able to have that too and even if they're not around I feel like once you've a placeholder for that yeah you make a placeholder because

as we were growing up we weren't we didn't spend much time together but he was always in the back of my mind of like I need to dance harder because I know if I meet him somewhere in the dance world he's going to go all out and I need to go all out and I need to dance harder because I know if I meet him somewhere in the dance world, he's going to go all out and I need to go all out and I need to be better. Can you teach us about learning?

Learning? Right. Yeah. So you're on this arc to get better, right? Your whole, your life, it sounds like to me is designed for an experience and that's going to have potentially an impact for legacy, right? And then how do you learn learn how do you structure your training so that you are on an accelerated clip to get better rather than kind of a ho-hum well let me try and if it gets difficult let me stop or take a break like how do you structure your learning um okay before i answer that i'm gonna definitely i'm gonna do what i said i was gonna do before i'm gonna answer the question of how i got here now. How do I become

who I am now? I think it's not a matter of how I became who I am now, but a fact of it was always there. It's just that now more people see me for who I am. I feel like I'm literally the same person, the same idea as I was when I was young. It's just that now I can speak on them more. I have more wisdom about

what they are. But for the most part, it's just more public. More people are looking into my life now and they're seeing this person, but I've always been there. There's been some little light shed.'s like it's like um if you turn on if you like you're in a dark room and all the lights are off and you're trying to find your phone in the dark and you can't find

it you can't find it can't find it and you finally you turn that light on and the phone is in the floor it never moved it was always there it's just that now you see it so that's uh that that was what i wanted to i wanted to answer your question but my how to learn i actually do have an answer for this um it is a mix and you'll hear me say mix a lot because i do believe in a in a healthy balance um you can't have one without the other. It's a mix between knowing your strengths and understanding who you are. And when you want to build that, you have to be open-minded to watch other people and to not criticize so quickly. Like, even if the person you believe is at a lower skill level than you, watch them closely because they might be at a lower skill level now, but maybe something that they're doing, even if they can't see it, if it's a little dim light, watch that inspiration and be inspired by them because they're going to inspire you in a different way than someone who's really good is going to inspire you. To be honest, a lot of times the people who aren't very good, the way they inspire me is sometimes

just their want to try new things in front of a crowd, even if it looks stupid. I commend them for doing it, even though people were like, oh man, I look dumb. I look dumb. It's like, and when you keep watching those people and they keep throwing it out there, even though people say they look dumb, that's where I've learned something. I've learned that everything in my skill set that I've wanted to try and maybe I felt iffy, I'm like, forget that. Hey, I'm going to do what he did. I'm going to put it out there even though they might not like it because he showed me that just because they don't like it doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It doesn't mean it doesn't make it you so like so basically what i'm saying is

when i when i'm watching people who are maybe less skillful i'm not necessarily sometimes even watching their moves or like their skill level i'm watching their dedication i'm watching uh their the choices they make in a intense moment um when people are booing them do they keep dancing or do they bow out like you gotta truly broaden what you look at and how you look at it instead of just looking at it in one way. So you mix that into what you already do and the muscle memory you've already created for yourself and the things you know that you're best at. You mix those two and then it literally just forms itself into this accelerated learning so let's say for example i want to get better if i want to get better now i would pick a category of of style or technique that i have i would pick a technique that i have that i feel

like is my weakest or that i feel like i've always had potential in, but I've never tried to master it. I will solely focus on that. I will be like, you know what? I need to work on my feet. Like my feet suck. Or my feet could be so much better. Let me work on my feet. So every day for at least an hour straight, I will just dance with my feet.

Whether it's painting the song with my feet, whether it's gliding with my feet, whatever it is, whatever music is on, any way I choose to dance, I'm leading with my feet. My feet lead the dance. And then, from next thing you know, it's already something about when you focus on one thing, when you've already had a variety of things, they overlap. They tend to overwrite each other a little bit. So now other things that have improved that you didn't know would improve just by you working on your feet. Like it's kind of, you know, when I listen to you talk or when I listen to anyone, what I'm trying to learn as well is that

I think like the payout for me is the number of gems per 60 seconds, right? Like you just dropped a lot of gems. There's a lot of gems in here about, you know, let me see if I can capture some of them. Because what you're describing, I think is relatively complicated, right? Which is, so you have this deep. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep.

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So you obviously value trying something new, you know, committing in adversity and moving to uncertainty, as we've talked about earlier. And then you're also looking, you're not just looking at the actual move, you're looking at the person and the choices behind the move. Right.

So sometimes you're looking at the move, right? Like what's happening to see if there's some spark that you get. Right. Okay. So how do you have the ability? And then I'm curious about how long can you sustain the ability for deep focus? Because that requires a really deep focus and you said something really important is when I was saying all these gems is this um reserving judgment that you're you're not

judging everything right away and I want to remind me to come back to this idea of mindfulness in a minute but is a long way of me asking how is it that you position yourself or prime yourself for deep focus? And then how long can you actually hold that? Hmm. I think, uh, I think I prep myself ahead of time when I know that I'm like, someone's going to do something that I, and I don't know what to expect. It's like I... Hmm. How do I do that? Oh.

Okay, this is what I do. Wait, is this a new thought for you? Kind of. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just because I've never gone this deep into it before. Better yet, it's not even that. It's just I've never... It's like when you're in your own thoughts, everything makes sense in your head.

But when you put them in words words that's where the challenge is uh do you talk about the the the psychology of what you do or the inner game of what you do i think about it but um i only really talk about it when people ask me which is why i love when people ask me because i tend to come up i feel like my skill level of uh speaking on what i'm thinking is because of people asking me so many questions and like i'll i'll just answer in the feeling of it because when i can't think of what to say or how to say it i just say it how i how i instinctively want to say it i go into my instincts and i'm just like wait what i said there kind of makes sense let me keep that and now let me add that to the next thing the next time i answer that question so that i can create an even

deeper like answer even more obvious answers that people are less confused and less confused until it's so obvious that they're like boom that makes sense but in the terms of uh going into that mode of like focus deep focus and then sustaining it I think I um I don't prepare myself I purposely uh if I'm if I'm watching someone perform or dance I don't prepare myself. I purposely, if I'm watching someone perform or dance, I don't prepare myself to think they're going to dance like this. Or maybe even sometimes I do. But whether I do or I don't, once they start, instinctively I'm just like, okay, what are they going to do next?

And then I think the focus doesn't come until after they've made their choice. Then I backtrack and be like, damn. I start thinking deeper of why did they why did they choose to do that why did they choose what made them choose to like do a level change or made them choose to like go slow like and a lot of that is a even a faster way of learning how to adapt to music because a lot of times in dance events, they'll play random songs. People freestyle to songs all the time that they don't know. When people can make choices based off of songs they don't know, and they still be pretty damn good choices,

I think, how did he make that good choice? What was he doing? Was he listening to the song? Did he guess it? Did he get lucky? He's's getting lucky a lot so maybe it's not just luck maybe he's actually doing something he has a technique of how he can predict music or um how he can it can look like he's not hitting every beat but you still you still get hyped when he does something because he's learning how to capture energy over the beat. So like, I think I don't get into the focus until after they made the choice. And then once they made the choice and it was a great choice, I think, whoa, like why?

And even if they made a bad choice, I'm like, whoa, what made him even want to choose that? Because I want to know. So that's that without judgment piece. Like you're really curious about what's happening behind the decision or behind the expression. but i can't prepare myself beforehand i can only do it after i've seen it like like and what i mean after i seen i mean in the moment after i've seen it like it's happening it's happening he just made a choice it was either good or bad now i'm like boom like but why like what made him make that choice like now i'm asking questions like this like literally as fast as i'm snapping i'm asking myself questions and then but at the same time my mind is weird like

i'm processing what he's doing continuously and every after every choice he's made he does i've asked myself like a bunch of questions a bunch of questions and then you know it just happens like that it's like a computer constantly downloading information downloading information and and calculating calculating calculating and then for some reason I can retain it to an extent. And, and I, once I start practicing with the information that I've gathered, it doesn't tend to start making sense until I've actually done it myself. Like I've actually tried to do it myself and I go, Oh, this is what he must've been thinking of. Like, this is how he must've just like let go. But a lot of times I find that my my questions are often answered by instinct. Like he trusted his instincts because some people will make the same choice, but do it their way.

So it's a different variation of the same choice. I'm like, why were their choices so good? Because they trusted themselves. They didn't have doubt and a lot of times people will mess up but they did it so confidently that you were just like that was still amazing and so i think i think to be honest that's even what why i even get more in depth into instinct is because to me it's proven time and time again but i never i never completely 100 believe in myself like i always question it.

And then every time I go back to it, I mean, because I'm wondering about this, this conversation of doubt that you don't. So right now, as we're having this conversation, you've got like this great presence about you. Good eye contact. You're really kind of working on articulating the truth in this moment and you've got a spark or you're switched on basically is the phrase i use when to try to capture when somebody's really present yeah and so you have that thing right like you've but you've also designed your life to be able to do that right so i was curious about like where is doubt? And I know you feel nerves. We've talked about that before. Yeah.

Doubt is when it's about to happen and it hasn't happened yet. That's like the doubt is when to be in a more, to explain it in a more specific sense. Before I'm about to dance or perform on stage, and I'm talking about these are the minutes before, I'm doubting, man, what if I mess up? What if they don't like it? What if it's not good? What if I fall? What if, what if, what if, what if, what if?

These are the doubts. And these also are what makes me nervous. But, and this is the example of learning to control things by not controlling them. I purposely make myself nervous, but I know that when I dance, I perform better when I'm nervous. So I purposely designed a system that doubts myself, that makes me more nervous, so that when I dance, I can trigger those nerves into a controlled environment of freestyle. Because I know I work better with them. Than without them. So you embrace it.

You embrace those feelings of. That physical sensation. Yeah. Right. Like you tolerate it. Or embrace it. It sounds like you more embrace it. Because when I doubt.

Up until the time I perform. When I perform. There's no more doubt. Because I'm making it. I'm making history in the moment. So now I can't doubt what's. I can't doubt or be afraid of what's going to happen because now it's my job to focus on this moment and make it happen. Like I, I can, I can be on stage and just walk back and forth and I've controlled it completely to the point to where I know I'm not, I know I didn't fall. I know that, you know, I use the stage blah blah blah but like um I mean I would never just go on stage and walk back and forth but the idea is that when I'm in the moment there's no

more doubt because I'm I am controlling what's going to happen and I am aware that if let's say the music cuts off which actually happened in one of my performances um like yeah you you feel like well that's actually a perfect example i was in new jersey i was dancing um of course i psyched myself out beforehand i got on stage i started feeling better because i was in control um i danced to two songs the second song i played i was i was even more in the zone i was ready to do this song i'm dancing i'm dancing like boom i'm in control makes you know the music stops now I can freak out I can be like oh my gosh I could be upset that the music just stopped or I can still control the

situation because I'm still in the moment so I took my time and I just I don't know you just I trusted my instincts that the worst that can happen is that they can't turn the music back I play another song who cares I'm still gonna dance I'm still gonna you know kill it because I'm in my zone. But what ended up happening was the people knew the song so well that the crowd started singing it. And then I started dancing and I was like, you know what? Fine, let's do it. And I danced to the words that they were singing. The crowd was I danced with the crowd. I didn't care about the song anymore. The song was gone. I can't right now.

I'm on stage. I can't change the fact that the song just stopped. But the fact that these people are singing, I can choose can't right now i'm on stage i can't change the fact that the song just stopped but the fact that these people are singing i can choose to dance right now so why not and i danced until they got the song back on that must have been unbelievable it was actually yeah it was it was it was unexpected but i guess i didn't freak out because like you said i've trained myself for the unexpected like i yeah i think there's a freshness to the way you're describing this for me. And I think a gift that hopefully you can remind people is that you're one of the best in the world at what you do. And you still have doubt and you still kind of get those butterflies or that kind of feeling i'm imagining that what most people describe as a weak knees or some sort of like um extra activation in their body that feels a little uncomfortable

okay the nervousness you have it and then you actually harness it and you use it you're not trying to get rid of it you're actually it's human nature yeah right yeah right yeah there you go so love it up right feel it love it know that there's a heightened sense that's that's uh that's alive in you when that's all present yeah it's like people who don't deal with their emotions like like people who are afraid to feel sad or afraid to be angry or you know when i embrace that you're human you're angry because i mean you feel angry who taught you about emotions uh i don't know myself kind of i promise a lot of these things no one really told me about them i just kind of like i just i'm a okay i always tell people i'm a i'm very uh i pay attention

to everything and that's how i learned that's how I learn. That's how I evolve. It's the same to even myself. When I go through things and I feel like I can't deal with them, I'm literally studying myself. And what are the best choices that I've made where I feel so much better after I just did this when I was sad. Instead of just trying to act like I wasn't sad. I got over it faster when I just accepted my feelings and accepted the fact that i was sad it's okay to be sad it's okay to cry um so like i just i would always i researched myself as as much as i researched others um so even when i and like i said even when i dance that that comment i made i live my life how i dance um when i dance there's a video i watch that video back and I just study it.

I'm studying myself as if that's not me. I'm just like, okay, boom. And I think, I tell myself, what made me do that? Because the thing, I think the only really drawback is when you give in to your instincts is that a lot of times you can't recreate it because your instinct played off of the environment of that time that place that moment it's you can't recreate it it's gone that moment's gone that moment is gone but you want to you want to at least be able to grab a nice chunk of it so that it stays with you which is why like when i watch myself i'm like man what made me think about that and i keep thinking like okay when i was into my instincts i remember having this feeling okay that's what made me think about that? And I keep thinking like, okay, when I was into my instincts, I remember having this feeling.

Okay, that's what made me want to do that. I remember the way my body felt when I did that wave and looked so great. Like, let me try to recreate that to the best I can so that it's not the same, but it's going to be a damn near good close replica. So in the same sense of like emotions, like dealing with emotions with myself. Yeah, I watch myself as much as I watch other people. Like, no one, I think that this is probably why people, because people honestly say I'm humble a lot. I think it's only because, like, I've never found myself above anyone

or, like, any different from any other human being. I do things that are human just like anyone else does anything that are human. I get angry like everyone else gets angry. I get angry like everyone else gets angry. I get sad like everyone else gets sad. It's about... It's really fresh. It's about embracing them.

Like, and... But the thing that I'm pulling from this is that you don't... You reserve judgment. Like, there's a non-judgmental piece to you. Remember earlier I said,

let's talk about mindfulness. And so mindfulness is basically the way I understand it is that it's a sense of presence in this moment without judgment it's a particular way of being right here right now without judgment so that over time we gain wisdom and insight yeah yeah yeah right but i do judge this is this is what's going to flip me. Because I'm not, I am human. People judge. You judge naturally just because you judge.

But I judge in the sense of, let's say like we have a conversation about let's say like a conversation about discipline. Some people believe that you shouldn't put your hand on your kids. You should just put them in time out or whatnot.

I have my judgment of that. My judgment is that if it comes to that point where you have to discipline your kid, it's your child. You're not going to hurt them. You never do anything to truly hurt your kid.

But discipline, I believe, is... Some people don't have... Some people don't but but the general sense of you know having you know a child or kids i mean you care for you don't instinctively want to hurt them you know you want the best for them um sometimes putting them through discipline helps them be better later um so my judgment of that would be yes i believe in discipline i believe if uh you know kids kids being really, really bad, there's something really, really, you know, it's talking back, all this stuff. Sometimes you got to take off the belt.

And I had that done to me. And I feel like I would, I'm the person I am now. I wouldn't be today if I didn't, if that didn't happen to me. Someone, but so there's where my judgment comes in. But I'm, I never let that interfere with what information I take in. So if someone tells me why they feel like it's wrong or why they feel like it shouldn't happen and they shouldn't do it, I'm not shunning out your answer because of my judgment. Instead, I'm still welcoming that so that maybe my judgment changes. I just truly don't believe

that my judgment is necessarily the right. No one knows if their outlook on something is the right way but you know those people who always will only believe their way and no one else's those people don't learn by me having my judgment and then accepting what you have to say i can better shape that judgment into a more like i can make a better choice in that situation you you by far are a life learner. You're really open and learning to grow. Have you heard the phrase beginner's mindset or beginner's mind?

Yeah, it's awesome. So there's a whole wisdom of thought around the value of a beginner's mind. And mindfulness training is a way to cultivate a beginner's mind. And in a beginner's mind, it allows us to be fully present right here, right now. And this is exactly the conversations that I'm excited to have because your pursuit, your ability to find mastery is really coming from living deeply in the present moment and having, embracing a beginner's mind so that you can learn and grow and adjust and adapt to what for many people is very uncomfortable. Not knowing it's, it's having emotional kind of upheaval and uncertainty and not knowing how the

next moment's going to go tends to be very difficult for people. And this is like, that's what clinical anxiety is, right? Yeah. Right. Yeah. So,

okay, this is unbelievable And this, like, that's what clinical anxiety is, right? Yeah. Right. Yeah. So, okay, this is unbelievable. The amount of wisdom that you've collected in your short time and the talent that you have is really phenomenal. So,

can I just ask you a couple rapid fire questions? Yeah. Yeah, just kind of let these rip. It all comes down to? Oh, it all comes down to instinct.

If you had the chance uh tomorrow to go to mars and you had a 50 chance to go to mars i'm sorry you had a 50 chance of coming back and a 50 chance of not coming back you know life and death um would you go no how come because uh i'm not that interested in mars my self-interest uh is just like well first of all i mean my mind says 50 50 chance i could live i could die that's not but but i'm also thinking man i could experience mars so now i've just balanced out my equal like my equilibrium and then so but now i'm like but don't even want want to go? No, I don't. So, no, I have no interest. No interest, yeah. When you go into a party or a social environment, do you like to bounce around from group to group? Or would you prefer to hang with a couple people and have a deeper conversation?

Oh, man, I like to bring people together. I feel like I do that through dancing especially uh you get you gather energy from moving to groups and having stimulating conversation oh no i mean literally bring them together as in like uh like if i because unless it just happens organically if i feel like i don't know people just some people are not very sociable unless you break the ice my icebreaker is uh literally dancing and making people make a circle so like when i typically when i dance people will form a circle and then now we have something to talk about everyone everyone's vibing off of my dancing but not only just to me but with everyone like okay so let's say let's say that you couldn't dance that we're just going to a social event

right and what i'm one what i'm curious about is do you like to to connect with many people for energy or do you prefer to have a deep conversation with one or two people that you're hanging with? It's a mix. I like to connect to a lot of people just because I always find that I'm so interested in everyone else's views on things. But sometimes it's quality over quantity. And sometimes the quantity is so evenly placed that like you only get the true quality from the quantity. So in some senses, I will find that when I'm talking to a lot of people and like I feel good about it, but they all have like that. They're all given the same amount of quality. Then I kind of need so much to create that one that one big quality but then sometimes you go to a party and you just start talking to that one person that they're so they're

giving you so much and you're giving them so much that the quality of conversation is so high that you don't really need uh you don't really need to talk to anyone else kind of like um so I guess there's a sense of like there's already a set meter of quality that i'm looking for in a conversation and then i find it either through quantity or through quality do you do what you think is right or what you feel is right feel yeah yeah because i mean oh but sometimes your thoughts affect your feelings but when you truly give in to the way you truly yeah feel feel yeah i just waited out and i was like yeah feel how will you know when you quote made it i won't it's just gonna happen has it happened yet uh

i've i've made uh i feel like I'm making landmarks. I'm making like checkpoints, um, each one higher than the next, but I feel like I haven't, I haven't made, I feel like, to be honest, I won't, I won't truly know that I made it until I become, until I become it, until I become a legend. I feel like, uh, like, I don't know if Michael Jackson knew he was gonna, he was a legend. I feel like I don't know if Michael Jackson knew he was a legend or knew that his music was timeless until it literally started

becoming timeless. Literally, now that he's gone and he cannot make any more music, you still want to hear his stuff because it's timeless. It's only proven that it's timeless now because of present day. I won't know but like you have that you'll have that feeling i have that feeling that you know it might happen so i hope i do man beautiful okay um last kind of a little opportunity

two things one is um i'm curious how you describe or define mastery i think mastery is a total embrace in what you do kind of like honestly what you were saying earlier like when you truly give in to yours to your your zone like your ability, your power, you, and like, and not only just giving into it, because it takes more than just giving into it, it takes giving into it and making it so, such a wow factor, that like, it transcends to other worlds. A great example is like, I feel like if I dance, and this is not me calling myself a master, but I feel like I am close. I feel like I am kind of in that world. If I go to a singing event, there's nothing but singers there.

Nothing but singers. And if I wasn't as good as i was and i danced for them they would just be like oh yeah it's cool he dances you know it would be so nonchalant but like i like it that way like if i do that and i dance they're like wait no who is this guy this guy is unreal like they're forgetting that they just watch dance they just know that they saw something so amazing that they have to question what it is they want to know what it's about they want to like they're they become invested in it and it's not their world but i've i've just bled over to their world uh even if they don't understand it and the fact that i can do that i feel like mastery people who master something

can do that they're different from when things get viral on social media a lot of times the people that see them and like them they're not even they're not that's not even their world like when a singing video goes viral when a dance video goes viral when someone that can juggle knives with one finger goes viral they're not the people who are liking those things a lot of times they're not even in that world but they like the guy the people doing it have such a mastery of it that they've they've let they've allowed someone to step into their world too without even knowing what it is they're just like i don't know what this is i don't even care for this stuff but this is amazing but like if it's a dance video

they're like i've been to the club i've seen people dance but this like this is like dancing you know what i mean so i feel like that's when oh i feel when that's like that's a master that's awesome the master be appreciated in all in like just all through all audiences Wow okay so I've been able to ask you a lot of questions and at the outset I said you know I can't remember the microphone was on or not but the recorder was on or not but I said you know we can just go back and forth and I'm I'm monopolized all of the questions so I don't know if the microphone was on or not, but the recorder was on or not. But I said, you know, we can just go back and forth. And I monopolized all of the questions. So I don't know if you have any questions

that are on the other side of this. But I think, honestly, I don't. Only because like the way you responded to my responses were kind of like, I don't know, like you didn't leave me with much to need to know I feel like I've like we've already like gained a relationship through the way you've asked your questions

and the way you responded to me answering the questions like I've been very observant in that sense so like I don't know I feel like I don't know I kind of like see what you appreciate like I've learned just through this by you asking questions and me answering what you appreciate in like in people and things in life. Like you appreciate a like form of wisdom or like, you know, I don't know.

So, yeah, I don't have any questions. And I don't mean like even in like a I'm not interested. It's just that like you've you've honestly given me so much just by the way you've asked thank you and i'm curious like just on that note what this is like organically what was this conversation like for you oh it was like a freestyle yeah of me dancing like i didn't know what to expect i didn't know what you're gonna ask but i kept my mind open to you know kind of be flexible with anything you threw and they were nice passes. Yeah. Yeah.

It was awesome. It was same for me on this side. Like I didn't know what we're going to talk about. And there was some, it organically led somewhere. So yeah, exactly. I think the best things,

like you start from a place and you end at a place and you're just like all that stuff in the middle. It was so, it flowed so well that there was no, there was no, like, awkward pauses. No, no, oh, man, what should I ask next? Like, the questions came from, it was a conversation, to be honest. Like, the questions came from my responses and then my responses came from your questions. And it's like, you couldn't have one without the other. So, it's a mix.

Which, I believe in life, there's always, you always have to have that mix of of things i truly believe in the mix and that's that's a sense of uh being uh of not being so selfless um there's some people who like in life they believe what they believe they say this is the way to do it blah blah blah and they don't open their mindset to other ways to do it i believe that there's your way of doing it, but you also can improve your way. Like, your way is never necessarily the best way or the fastest way. You can improve your way by gaining information and throwing it into what you already know. So it's literally constantly opening your mind to information. Like an ebb and flow, you know, between information and sharing and learning and growing and testing

and trying it out again and iterating and trying again. Exactly. What you give, you give to someone else and then they can give you back something because they've got

something for someone else and like, we can truly build ourselves up more than people realize if we like, if everyone was more open to like other people's views, you know what I mean?

So what, if we could wrap this up and you could pass on a gift to the next generation you know based on what you've experienced what you've learned what you've come to understand about how you work and life works in general is is there one or two nuggets that you'd pass to the next generation um that might be interested in mastery trust yourself like 100 um never doubt what you truly believe or what you truly want to make happen and never let someone else tell you that it's not possible um because if it i don't know it's like you people want to do things because off when they were young or off the bat they've seen something that someone had to do it. It had to be there for them to even want to do it in the first place, which already tells you that it's possible.

So don't let any hardship, any person, any words bring you down as far as like what you want to do. And if you want to become a master or something, realize that it is hard work. It isn't easy. People are always like, oh, you know, you're a natural, you're a natural. I'm a natural. I'm someone that's naturally hungry, but I'm not. I wasn't just born this good. You know, I don't just be like, I'm not going to dance for two years

and then, you know, get back at it. I'm as good as I was. It doesn't work that way. Know that it takes hard work, but also know that it pays off when you believe in yourself. And when you set yourself a goal that may be necessarily, in hindsight, may not be obtainable, but you'll become something great by striving for that crazy goal. And hell, sometimes you might end up doing it. So at the end of the day, you never know. You honestly never know.

So don't expect anything but always hope and strive for what you want. Wow. Yeah. Straight from the source there. Okay. So, I've learned a lot. So, thank you for the time today. Oh, thank you. This is, I do value these moments. Like, this is, this is great. Like, I just feel, I'm already, I feel so uplifted. You haven't noticed. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. And you are definitely switched on. So thank you for just the exchange, the experience, the learning.

And where can, if someone wants to learn more about you, where can they go to find more information to kind of hear what and learn what you're up to? Oh, I mean, Google me. F-I-K-S-H-U-N, Fiction.

I feel like people can truly see my message through my dancing. So in a sense, I mean, just watch my videos. What's your Instagram? Instagram is Dance, the number 10, and then Fiction. So Dance 10 Fiction. But Fiction is spelled F-I-K-S-H-U-N, like my dance name. Is that the platform that you drive most traffic to?

Or is it more Twitter? I think more of my traffic is Instagram, for sure. I've just, I've created more focus towards it. And as a result, it just has the most following. So it's where most of my work is,

as well as YouTube. But that's just from other people's channels. But I mean, it's still me. Yeah, brilliant. Well, Fiction, thank you for the time. Thank you for coming in. I hope that we can do this again.

Oh, yeah. And that we'll have a part two to this to keep going. For sure. All right, thank you. Yeah, thank you. All right, Fiction. Thank you so much for your time today. I've really enjoyed our conversation.

I mean, I'm laughing because this was just a pleasure and I hope that people get the same sense of joy that you and I experienced in this curiosity and this amazing spirit that you have about yourself. And so thank you for sharing. Thank you for teaching. Thank you for bringing in how you're making sense of how you're pursuing mastery and you're hungry to figure out how, how good you can get at this craft. I'm a fan. I'm loving what you're doing. I'm absolutely,

I just, every time I watch, I get sucked into, to the joy that you express when you're doing your thing. So just thank you for what you're bringing into this environment. All right. If you enjoyed this episode, I think there's only, I'm new at this,

but there's only a couple things to be able to do. One is, is go to iTunes and subscribe to Finding Mastery. That's the name of the podcast. And I've also come to learn that if you, you know, hit the like button and share some comments, that really helps out building some momentum for,

so that we can hopefully build a community around this. And you can also go to finding mastery.net and plug in your email information. I'll be able to post and, and send, you know, upcoming, uh, interviews and, you know, all the good stuff that hopefully we can generate as, as we keep this going. You can also follow on Twitter at michaelgervais.com. So that's, I'll spell it out, Michael, M-I-C-H-A-E-L, Gervais, G-E-R-V-A-I-S. So that's at michaelgervais.com. And then on Facebook, facebook.com forward slash finding mastery. And obviously you can check out Fiction's work on his Instagram and Twitter and Facebook. As he said, he's big on those. So for all the good resources and everything, hopefully more of this will be posted on findingmastery.net. So until next time,

thank you for listening. And really what that means to me is thank you for the gift of deep attention. And I'm just hopeful that you'll be able to share some of the nuggets that we learned in here and share those with other folks. As you're building your tribe and your community and the people around you that support you and challenge you to pursue your best. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're

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