Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Finding Mastery Goes to Space, Part 2: Live from OUTER SPACE | NASA Astronaut, Woody Hoburg

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Starting point is 00:01:19 Station, this is Michael Gervais with the Finding Mastery Podcast. How do you hear me? Welcome back, or welcome to the Finding Mastery Podcast. I am your host, Dr. Michael Gervais, by trade and training, a high-performance psychologist. Now, today's conversation, it's a special one. We're going to outer space and joining us for this historic episode is the remarkable NASA astronaut, Dr. Woody Hoberg, tuning in directly from the International Space Station. How incredible is that? This is part two of our three-part series documenting Woody's epic journey from Earth to the cosmos and then back again.

Starting point is 00:02:06 And as a reminder, part three will release early next year. So last week in part one, we explored Woody's preparations for his mission. And if you haven't had the chance to check that out yet, I highly recommend you go back and give that a listen. And today in part two, he's providing a firsthand look into life aboard the ISS, the International Space Station. And he's just a few weeks into his expedition. What an experience to

Starting point is 00:02:32 speak with Woody while he is literally floating around his cabin and spinning his microphone in zero gravity. If you can, I highly recommend checking this one out on YouTube. The visuals are epic. And we'll put that link in the show notes for you so that you can check that out. Within the close quarters of the ISS, Woody and his team model an impressive level of excellence and resilience. Their dedication to maintaining solid relationships

Starting point is 00:02:59 and open and direct communication is rich with lessons for all of us, especially right now. It is truly an honor to bring this conversation to you. So with that, let's jump right into this week's Out of This World conversation with the one and only Dr. Woody Hoberg. Finding Mastery Podcast. This is Mission Control Houston. Please call station for a voice check. Station, this is Michael Gervais with the Finding Mastery Podcast. How do you hear me? Dr. Michael Gervais, it's great to hear your voice. On behalf of the Expedition 69 crew, it is a real pleasure to welcome you aboard the International Space Station.

Starting point is 00:03:38 Oh, what a treat to hear that. And Woody, Dr. Holberg, I am honored to have this conversation with you. And first, it's just like, I want to say congratulations to what you've done and what NASA collectively has been able to do. And I just have to just pause for a moment, like, look where you are. Look at these surroundings that you're in right now. Let me just soak that up. What is that like for you? Yeah, we're aboard what you're seeing right now. This is the U.S. lab. This is one of many, many modules on the U.S. segment of the space station.

Starting point is 00:04:17 And it is a little cluttered in here. We've got a fair amount of equipment, computers, cabling. We try to keep the place neat and tidy, but certainly a lot of scientific equipment and supplies up here to do our work. I bet in a confined space that is neat and tidy, but from my vantage point, this looks like it is like orchestrated chaos. Yeah, it is to some extent, but it's amazing how quickly you start learning where everything is and finding your way around. And I will say we have the most amazing team on the ground that keeps track of everything for us. There's, of course, an inventory management system. So down to the smallest nut and bolt at any time, if you wanted to know where something is on the space station, we can just call down or even look it up ourselves up here.

Starting point is 00:05:01 And we've got it all tracked. We've even got some RFID codes. So it's actually really well organized to the point where I sometimes wish that my life on Earth were as organized as this. Amazing. So Woody, how has your experience thus far matched up against your expectations of being in space? Well, you know, the expectations that I had to draw on before I flew was my training. And we have so many amazing training facilities at NASA and at SpaceX, since I flew up on a SpaceX vehicle, and actually all around the world at our international partners. And so through my two years training for this mission, you know, each little training environment we have

Starting point is 00:05:46 is one kind of simulation or component of preparing for the actual experience that's up here. And you can't really, you can't have the real experience until you're actually here. And I knew that when I was on the ground. I knew that there was a component of unknown associated with flying in space and i was excited about that's part of what drew me to this but i also knew that i couldn't possibly know exactly what that component would be so honestly one of the surprises has been just how prepared i was the training was amazing getting here it looks like the inside of the space station looks very much like building nine at the nasa Space Center, our space vehicle mock-up facility. And it's just amazing, all the little components of training, how they add together.

Starting point is 00:06:34 And I realized up here that I was actually completely prepared. And the little things like floating are really fun. And you adapt to that all quickly. The unknown stuff that I didn't quite know how to prepare for, but the key parts we were fully trained for on the ground. So one of the things that is absolutely the undoing for so many people, especially in high speed exacting, high pressured environments is managing or working with the unknown. And I hear you say that that's something that you absolutely love is stepping in or exploring the unknown. Can you unpack that

Starting point is 00:07:12 just a bit and maybe an insight about why it's been hard for so many of us, whereas those of us who are trained, it's something that's relatively exciting. I think there's a common thread among people, both up here that are getting to have this amazing experience and also on the ground, everyone that's contributing to making human space exploration possible. There's this common love for a kind of adventure and pushing that boundary and exploring the unknown. And it's a great question. For me personally, I think I sometimes wonder whether there's a tension between preparation and adaptability. And I think spaceflight is something that requires both of those things. And what I've realized for myself is that, you know, my background, probably the closest analog is big wall rock climbing.

Starting point is 00:08:07 But everybody here has similar personal experiences that are relevant to their preparation. And what I've realized is both aspects are so important and are something I just absolutely love. The preparation, getting as ready as we can be to face what we're going to see up here. In my case, that's the training I did for this mission. But then also the adaptability and realizing that days are not going to go to plan, that we're going to have to work through challenges, that unexpected events are going to occur, and we're just going to have to kind of adapt in the moment and figure out solutions. And up here, it's been a pleasure to do that. We've certainly seen some of that already in my five weeks up here thus far, things not going to plan. And it's really fun because we get to work with the ground,

Starting point is 00:08:56 work with mission control, work with the experts and principal investigators on the ground who have the expertise to figure out solutions. And it's always really fun when an unexpected challenge comes up and then we figure out a way to solve it. The framing of the unexpected and the excitement for the unlock, I think, is one of the main unlocks I'm taking from this conversation. And can you share any large epiphanies that you've had since you've been up in space? It's funny. It's a hard question. I think looking out the window is probably the closest that I get to an epiphany.

Starting point is 00:09:31 We're busy in here every day doing a bunch of science. And when we have a few minutes to go look out the window back at our beautiful gem of a planet, just realize how fragile the place we call home is and realize how thin the atmosphere is and earth is like its own little spaceship in the blackness of space and it's just such a special place and so when i'm up here and i look back at earth I see all these amazing places that I look forward to visiting when I get back. Although I'm just so thrilled, this is such a unique life experience being up here. I'm so grateful and honored to have

Starting point is 00:10:18 the opportunity to do this and have this experience. But also, I look forward to going home to. And so if there's one epiphany, it's maybe just how precious our planet is. And how has your perspective shifted about humans potentially being a multi-planetary species? Another interesting question. And we're living in some really exciting times relevant to that question. I mean, it's amazing. So I'm here on the International Space Station, and we have had a continuous human presence up here for over 22 years. So there has not been a moment in the last 22 years when people have not been living and working in space. So in some sense, we're not yet multi-planetary,

Starting point is 00:11:08 but we have been a space faring species for a long time now. And the International Space Station is such an amazing proving ground for what I see as the next step for NASA and our nation moving outward into the solar system. And the next big step will be the moon with the Artemis missions. And I'd like to see us go set up a similar type of proving ground on the moon. And that's the right next step for ultimately landing humans on Mars, which is going to be so exciting.

Starting point is 00:11:41 I hope maybe we'll see that in my lifetime. I think we probably will. Maybe sooner than some people think. Oh, that's so exciting. I hope maybe we'll see that in my lifetime. I think we probably will. Maybe sooner than some people think. That's so exciting. And I know that you've had really limited communication from the International Space Station. If there was one thing that you could tell your friends and family about your experience right now, what would that be? Oh, probably just how much I appreciate how they've shaped me and their influence on my trajectory. You know, looking back, it all makes sense in hindsight. And I just see all the amazing contributions and people that believed in me when maybe even I didn't. And I truly wouldn't be here without those people supporting

Starting point is 00:12:26 me. Now, earlier you had mentioned that, you know, you are looking forward to being back on earth and, and now you're talking about, you know, the, the gratitude and the appreciation of your friends and family and your support teams. And what is it that you miss most about life outside of the people? Showers. Showers. Oh, goodness. Okay. So showering in space is obviously, the relationship with water is obviously very different. Yeah. Water is actually amazing up here. So what you realize, on earth, water, the way water behaves is dominated by its weight but up here everything's weightless and so the way water behaves is dominated by the forces of surface

Starting point is 00:13:13 tension and so you can actually take a decent shower up here we uh we use water and we could kind of um cover ourselves in water and it just sticks to you. And then you'll get some soap going, you can get a good lather going, and then there's kind of a multi-stage process, toweling yourself off. So it actually works amazingly well. I somewhat joke, but I certainly do look forward to a good proper shower when I get back. But we actually managed to keep ourselves surprisingly clean up here. Okay. So as a high performance psychologist, you know, I'm going to ask about the challenges that you've had emotionally and mentally. And so can we start with some of those challenges that you've experienced that were in that gap between what you prepared for and what is uniquely

Starting point is 00:14:01 your experience on the ISS? Well, you know, I think the biggest challenge we've had is actually one you may be aware of. And it's one that actually started before I arrived here. And that was an unexpected coolant leak on one of the Soyuz spacecrafts that is docked or that was actually docked to the International Space Station. And that was my classmate and colleague and ISS crew member Frank Rubio's ride home, along with Sergei and Dima, our two Russian cosmonaut colleagues. And so in the aftermath of that unexpected coolant leak, we realized that those three guys would be spending not six months up here as they had originally planned, but a full year. And so it's and I'm up here with them right now. And I have to say, I've been so impressed with with all three of them and their attitudes

Starting point is 00:15:00 and their leadership in in dealing with that challenge. You challenge. I liken it to if you were running a marathon and someone came up to you at the 20 mile mark and said that you're actually running two and you need to keep going not to 26 miles, but to 52 miles. It's just amazing. Frank's leadership when I arrived here and just taking everything in stride and dealing with those challenges, I've been super impressed and learned so much from his reaction to that. So you're in tight quarters and relationships are at the center of this whole thing working. Do you have any insights around relationships in tight quarters and more specifically relationships where there might be tension and trying to solve something that's complicated? Well, first of all, I am so lucky to have such an amazing crew up here. where there might be tension in trying to solve something that's complicated?

Starting point is 00:15:46 Well, first of all, I am so lucky to have such an amazing crew up here. My crewmates are just some of the most amazing people and they're exactly the people that I would want to be on a long duration space flight with. And so that's a real pleasure. To answer your question, I think we take a very sort of tactical approach to the real challenges of being in tight quarters for a long duration, for six months. We're very direct with one another.

Starting point is 00:16:15 When things come up, we try to just address it right away in the moment. We have a culture of debriefing. So when there's a chance to just debrief things or learn from something, we do that. And then, you know, we're lucky here on the space station that the crew has crew quarters. So I have my own. It's about the size of a telephone booth, but I have my own place that I can go to get just a little bit of peace and quiet. And sometimes just even five minutes of just going and maybe just taking a few minutes to yourself is just so valued. And that's one of the really nice sort of design features of the space station is that we do have a place we can go to get a little bit of privacy.

Starting point is 00:17:00 So we're not all kind of just crammed together for six months straight, which I think would just naturally be a little more challenging. Do you have an audio track on loop that you're enjoying right now or a song that you've been vibing with? We actually have some servers up here and we have an amazing support team on the ground that uplinks movies and songs and podcasts and a whole range of media. And so my brother has actually been curating soundtracks for me and uplinking them every week. So I've been really enjoying that. Every week I get a new playlist from my brother to listen to. And the variety and just sort of not knowing what's coming,

Starting point is 00:17:43 again, going back to the unexpected. That's a really fun part of it. Too fun. All right. So let's just quickly shift gears where we've got two minutes left in this conversation. And I've just, I just need to understand how your sleep and work patterns have been affected by the, you know, very different rhythm of day and night cycles. So how has the lack of day and night cycle affected your sleep and work patterns? We're able to keep things surprisingly normal. So we operate the space station on GMT, Greenwich Mean Time, and we wake up around 6 a.m. GMT. We go to bed around 9 or 10 p.m. GMT. And so although we see 16 sunrises and sunsets every day, in here at night, we turn the lights down and we've got some shutters that we close on the windows. So we're not, it gets dark on the space station at night. And then in the morning, we turn

Starting point is 00:18:39 the lights on, we open the window shutters. I try to stick my head outside and get a little bit of sunlight if I can. But we just operate a normal 24-hour day-night cycle up here. Woody, you look happy. You look fit. You look like you are an absolute peak performance in all assets of your life. I just want to say thank you for spending this time. And what an honor to see you in the ISS and have this conversation with you. So thank you so much for including us. Michael, thank you so much.

Starting point is 00:19:11 It's truly a pleasure and an honor to get to speak with you. I'm really thrilled to get to be here. And it's just always fun talking with you. So all the best. And this was really fun. Okay, Woody. Appreciate you.

Starting point is 00:19:24 All the best. Thank you, NASA and team. Thank you to all participants from Finding Mastery podcast station. We are now resuming operational audio communication. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. Thank you. incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're looking for even more insights, we have

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Starting point is 00:20:35 to those looking to explore the edges and the reaches of their potential so that they can help others do the same. So join our community, share your favorite episode with a friend and let us know how we can continue to show up for you. Lastly, as a quick reminder, information in this podcast

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Starting point is 00:21:12 you for listening. Until next episode, be well, think well, keep exploring.

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Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Finding Mastery Goes to Space, Part 2: Live from OUTER SPACE | NASA Astronaut, Woody Hoburg

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