Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Finding Your Superpower In A World of Adversity | 17-time Paralympic Medalist, Oksana Masters

Episode Date: March 1, 2023

Paralympic athlete and 17-time medalist Oksana Masters shares her extraordinary journey of perseverance and triumph - from a life-saving adoption to winning Paralympic gold - offering insight and inspiration for anyone seeking to overcome obstacles and discover their own superpowers.More:Oksana Masters is a 17x Paralympic Medalist.Oksana has competed in each of the last six Paralympic Games (both summer & winter), and has brought home medals in four different sports – rowing, cross-country skiing, biathlon, and cycling. That is legit.Following the Beijing Paralympics in 2022, Oksana became the most decorated US Winter Paralympian or Olympian ever.This conversation could have focused solely on Oksana’s Paralympic triumphs, but that would have missed the true depth of her story - and she has an unbelievable story. It’s the story of a girl who spent her earliest years growing up in three corrupt and abusive orphanages in Ukraine – a girl who was born with radiation poisoning from Chernobyl and lost both her legs – a girl who was saved by a heroic mom (Gay Masters) – and the story of a girl who, despite so many adversities, has become a remarkable woman living to the upper limits of her potential. This conversation is so rich. We explore Oksana's journey, how she navigates setbacks and challenges, and the mental skills she uses both in life, and as a world-class athlete. I think everyone will have something valuable to learn from Oksana’s story and insights._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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as a female in sports and being a smaller statue built and stuff. And I wanted to rewrite my own story. Okay, welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Michael Gervais, by trade and training a high performance psychologist. And I'm really excited to share a conversation I recently had with Oksana Masters. Oksana is a 17-time Paralympic medalist. That's 17 medals at the Paralympic Games.

She has competed in the last six Paralympic Games, both summer and winter, and has brought home medals in four different sports. Rowing, cross-country skiing, biathlon, and cycling. That is legit. And following the Beijing Paralympic Games in 2022, Oksana became the most decorated U.S. winner Paralympian or Olympian ever. This could have been a conversation focused solely on Oksana's Paralympic triumphs. But that would have missed the true depth of her story. And she has an unbelievable story.

It's a story of a girl who spent her earliest years growing up in three corrupt and abusive orphanages. A girl who was born with radiation poisoning from Chernobyl and lost both her legs, a girl who was saved by a heroic mom, and the story of a girl who, despite so many adversities and perhaps because of them, has become a remarkable woman living to the upper limits of her potential. This conversation is so rich. There's so much in it. And I'm honored to have this conversation and to share it. We explore her journey, how she navigates setbacks and challenges, the mental skills she uses both in life and as a world-class athlete, I think everyone will have something valuable to learn from Oksana's story and, more importantly, her insights. So with that, let's jump right into this week's conversation with the legend Oksana Masters.

Oksana, I am so excited to sit with you and have this conversation. I read your book and I couldn't put it down. It was overwhelming in parts and inspiring in equal ways. And I'm just, I'm in awe on how you've navigated your life. And you are literally, to me, a living emblem of how to deal with shit. Like in some cases, like your mom is an absolute badass. You are badass. Like how you've organized your inner life is incredible. The deep insight you have on how to deal with, I don't want to, let's call it what it is. Like for me, it's dark. Like some of the human behaviors that you've been through have been dark.

And, you know, we all have our own unique dark parts of our life, our own scars, our own battle wounds. And you have written a story that's remarkable and you faced some incredible things and then squared up with them. And you also have this sense of peace in your life. You're a kick-ass athlete and a complete human in the sense that you are, you're amazing. And so I just want to start by saying that. So thank you. Thank you.

First of all, you're way too kind. You're way too kind. I'm just a person, just a girl with no legs, really. But thank you so, so much. I'm so excited. I'm just a girl with no legs. Yeah, I'm just a girl. Sometimes I'm 5'8", sometimes 4'.

Sometimes just curl up in a ball. You are too funny. Yeah. Sometimes I'm five, eight, sometimes four foot, sometimes just curl up in a ball. You are too funny. Okay. And I saw that on your Instagram handle. And what is the handle? Just so like folks can go check it out right now. What is your handle? Oksana Masters. Yeah. So O-K-S-A-N-A Masters. Yeah. M-A-S-T-E-R-S. And that's literally what you say on there. Sometimes I'm this height and sometimes I'm smaller. And that meaning that when you take off your prosthetics. Depending on the day. So sometimes there's days where you're just like 5'8 with my bad boys on or girls, I don't know.

My better half, my fiance is like, excuse me, but my legs are my better half. And then, yeah, forefoot without my legs on. When I stand on my taller leg, because I had to fight that fight to go down a water slide. I was, I climbed, I crawled all this way, like these 20 flights of stairs on my hands and knees to just get up it. And they're like, oh, you're under four feet. And I like stood on the knee of the taller one. And I'm like, no, I'm four foot. And you couldn't say no. So I'm exactly four foot. Where do I start? What do I need to know about you to understand you? Oh, man. I honestly, I don't know. I'm a really boring person, to be honest.

There's really, I think I'm one of those people. I think a lot of people are like, oh, you're so bubbly. You're so positive. And I was never just right away, always positive and bubbly and loved myself and had this outlook in life. And I found just like how to find, laugh at myself and make fun and light of situations when I'm uncomfortable. So I just laugh for no reason sometimes.

So there's like this idea of like equal opposites in some respect. Like as somebody who really wants to soar in life, right? There's some sort of counterbalance to having some depth, right? There's for people that understand the light, they also need to understand the dark and so how do you you you you embody the light but you've also faced down and worked with the dark so one of the things i'm really intrigued by is did you resonate with PTSD? Um, I know, well, I guess like I, it's weird. It's like a label.

Like I didn't know that's what it is, but I guess in like scientific terms, like, yes, I do have PTSD. And, um, to this day, like I'm something like loud noises and there's certain smells and certain, just certain things. Like I'm a super hypervigilant person too. And there's 30 things that can be happening in a room. And I'm hearing each one individually. And it makes my body just stress, so stressful and so draining to try and like tell my body constantly of you recognize these things and the sounds and you're fine.

But yeah, I mean, I do. Yeah. So I hear what I hear when I hear you say this, like, listen, I'm, I'm not about trying to get labeled and, um, which I really appreciate. And then on the other side, I hear you saying, yeah, it's not like it was a thing last year that I'm now done with, or it's not a thing that I kind of struggled a couple of years after some of my early trauma. You're saying, yeah, no, I still have a hypervigilance. And by the way, that is really one of the guiding functions of PTSD. It's not, it's a terrible name for a lot of reasons.

Oh really? I didn't know that. Yeah. For me, at least, you know, as a, and this is now I'm putting on like as a trained clinician, as a trained psychologist, I don't like it for a lot of reasons. One of the reasons is I don't think it's accurate because what happens when we experience trauma and tell me if you agree with this and if you don't like awesome. But when we experienced trauma, we're our internal ecosystem our brain and nervous system and psychology the whole thing says oh this is not this is not good this is not healthy this is dangerous so we fundamentally reorganize our life to avoid re-traumatization so it's like avoiding re-traumatized being re-traumatized is how you do you relate with that yeah it's like just

putting a bandage over it but never actually letting that thing like kind of get to like a yeah i think i totally agree with you on that yeah okay so so how do you manage that how do you deal with that part of the hyper village hyper vigilance because it's exhausting it is and my fiance hates going to a movie with me because oh my gosh i can hear every crunch of with that part of the hypervigilance, because it's exhausting. It is. And my fiance hates going to a movie with me because, oh my gosh, I can hear every crunch of every person's popcorn and sneeze and everything. And I'm like looking back and I'm like,

he's like, just stop it, just stop it. And like every whisper. Honestly, I, for me, it's my one time that I don't have any of that, except sometimes when sometimes I do, when I'm extremely zoned out is in that moment of racing. And I, my mind just shuts off and I go to one specific, I do this weird thing I've always done. And I count to 10 over and over and over. And people are like, why don't you come to a to 100 it's a lot more going on like i don't know i've always counted whatever i do just like count to 10 and i don't know why i started doing that and when i started doing that but from where i can remember and

when i counting the weird thing is like my mind subconsciously is like processing their different going into memories and stuff and just that's the moment where I don't have any of that stressful anxiety until there's I don't just like a random like bird or something or like something that would be that comes by and I'm when I'm on the bike I'm like oh my god and it freaks me out but because I'm so zoned out that's the only time every other time it's um it's it's just kind of there and don't really i don't know finding master is brought to you by linkedin sales solutions in any high-performing environment that i've been part of from elite teams to executive boardrooms one thing holds true meaningful

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Finding Mastery is brought to you by David Protein. I'm pretty intentional about what I eat, and the majority of my nutrition comes from whole foods. And when I'm traveling or in between meals, on a demanding day certainly, I need something quick that will support the way that I feel and think and perform. And that's why I've been leaning on David Protein Bars. And so has the

team here at Finding Mastery. In fact, our GM, Stuart, he loves them so much. I just want to kind of quickly put him on the spot. Stuart, I know you're listening. I think you might be the reason that we're running out of these bars so quickly. They're incredible, Mike. I love them. One a day, one a day. What do you mean one a day? There's way more than that happening here. Don't tell. Okay. All right, look, they're incredibly simple. They're effective.

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cookie dough. And a few of our teammates here at Finding Mastery have been loving the fudge brownie and peanut butter. I know, Stuart, you're still listening here. So getting enough protein matters. And that can't be understated, not just for strength, but for energy and focus, recovery, for longevity. And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value, and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David D-A-V-I-D protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. Well, so that what you just described as deep focus is one of the inoculations for racing mind. And if you're fully committed to one, and then two, and then three, right?

And you're fully committed to that, there's literally no space to muse other ideas or images. Or feel the pain of what you're feeling, like racing and stuff. And you're just focused on that number. Okay, so give some context for folks that haven't read your book that don't understand what some of the early childhood experiences give to your best abilities without me asking something that you don't where

you don't want to take a conversation but can you give a general sense because you did it's such a nice job in your book explaining your early childhood experiences um yeah and to be honest like i i'm still the one thing i learned writing through this is i clearly did not deal with a lot of things either and i'm still this opened up and was a step one of really truly healing yeah i wondered how you were doing like i I'm. Yeah. So, okay. For folks listening, like go get the book. And there's not complex. It's hard to say it like everything. It is. And you did a really nice job. So two things. Everyone in this world goes through trauma. And whether that's big trauma or little trauma, big T or little T. And you've got big T stuff going that you've experienced. I mean, Chernobyl, you know, and some of the conditions that you were born with is like radical in and of itself. So can you just give some context of the beginning and however much you want to share?

So I was born in Ukraine and I was born three years after chernobyl radiation leak happens the radiation levels what people don't even know to this day is so high and so strong and keeps rising that there's like 100 miles around where chernobyl is like it's just dead land right now and when my birth mom was traveling and she must have eaten something or in that area that was affected by radiation that resulted in, when I was in her birth, when I was in her stomach, resulted in my deformities, disabilities, I guess. I was born with my legs. And it wasn't until I got to America that I went to my first dentist and they took x-rays and my adult teeth, they saw radiation in my teeth. And that's when they were like, this is what time? And they went back and did the timeframe

and kind of where my, the village I was, well, the last orphanage, you don't really, where I was from and everything in Ukraine and kind of said that it's most likely Chernobyl that caused all this because when you're born with a disability or anything that's like a deformity in the body a lot of times it's localized so if you have an amputation it's like at the legs and only at the legs or maybe it'll be like on a leg and an arm or something, but it's the same type of a disability. Where for me, I was born with my legs. I was missing the main weight-bearing bones on both of them, and my knees were kind of floating there. They weren't really knees.

My enamel was stripped, and radiation is one of the only things that can strip enamel. And my hands were deformed. I was missing my organs and kidneys and some muscle groups. That's why I really got to focus when I go straight on a bike because if I don't, then I'm like, the one muscle group is going to take over because it's stronger. But because of all the stuff that was going on, I was put right to an orphanage because my birth parents didn't have the resources for the medical care I was going on, I was put right to an orphanage because my birth parents didn't have the resources

for the medical care I was going to need. And they thought they were going to be giving me a better life in the orphanage where they could potentially give me what I needed. That wasn't the case. I lived in three different orphanages straight from birth until I was adopted when I was seven and a half. And within those three orphanages, the one I remember the most and the one that my memories are so vivid that are in the book. And I share a lot,

but there's some things that I just don't share in the book in the memories because I'm still trying to figure out how to put words to the things that I experienced. But the last one is where a lot of the stuff happened and there was just mistreatment, abuse, physical, sexual, starving to death, and just being extremely malnourished.

When I came to America, I was diagnosed with failure to thrive. I wasn't going to live long because of just my size. And my immune system was non-existent at all and just very weak. And it's weird. Like my hair was black and coarse and I had black eyes and everything. Like everything changed when I came to America.

And finally, my mom says it was just food, love, and hugs. And I grew within like six inches within a few months of being in America. And my mom adopted me as a single parent. And then we came to, and the crazy thing is like, she just saw a picture of me. She didn't go to the orphanage first to be like, oh, I love her personality or anything like that. She just saw this really not so cute picture of me. She didn't go to the orphanage first to be like, oh, I love her personality or anything like that. She just saw this really not so cute picture of me. And thank God she saw something in it. And fought for me for two years.

It was a very long battle that she had to go through. And now I'm here. Yeah, you are. There's a lot of details that we're not including. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. Well, your friend Lainey, we can we can talk about that. There's things like there's the horror part of it, which I'm not interested in talking about in this moment with you. But there's the parts where like I'm like, like, can you talk about the sugar cubes? How you like this is remarkable, by the way. I don't I'm sorry. Real, can you talk about the sugar cubes? How you like, this is remarkable

by the way. I don't, I'm sorry, real quick. I don't want to miss this point. I don't want to miss that. You came to America with hugs, um, like, uh, and some food, some pure love that your mom had and you grew six inches in a handful of months. Like that, that should paint a picture of like just how bad it was. And so look, can we just start with the sugar cubes? And like, I think that really brings it to life for me at least. Yeah. So I, I love sugar cubes. Even when I got to America, I hoarded them in my room and under my mattress and behind my headboard. But so I was really, really hungry at times. And if I washed a pair of 10 socks on this metal old washboard, I would get a sugar cube.

And I learned how to savor that sugar cube. My fiance hates the way I eat now because it's something I still do to this day. He calls me like a little rabbit. I take the smallest bites and then I individually, within that bite, I make that bite like 10 separate bites in itself. The way I ate that sugar cube to keep it longer and last longer is... So everyone knows what a sugar cube is, obviously. And it has within that square it has like these little tiny crystals of sugar and i would take little bite by bite and chew each one individually and it would just last me for a very very long time and taught like i just would

get fuller that way faster and i would have more and just learned how to do that. And I do that now to this day with my grapes. I eat the, I'm such a weirdo. I eat like the peel first and that eat the, like the outside. And then just, and then like later on, it all actually came in handy when I was living out of my car. I learned how to make that box of spinach that I could afford at the grocery store last that much longer. Cause it was, I've already been there.

I knew that. And that's, I worked for that food and savored it. Okay. So, all right. I think that's where I learned hard work. Like, okay, if I work hard, there's like not a reward, but there's good out of it. Okay.

Well, this is not advised, right? Like starve, starve your kids so that they understand hard work. This is not, this is not what we're saying. Okay. But I mean, remarkable, like it speaks to your resourcefulness, your cleverness, the will to live, um, a strategy to figure out how to optimize when it's pretty deplorable or when it is deplorable. And so like that, that to me, it feels like that captures so much about your internal resources. And now let's just be clear. This was like in the age four, five, six, right? Seven.

Yeah. So no, this was five and six, five to seven. Because like I moved, the way it works is from birth to three you're in one orphanage from three to five you're in like considered like a baby home and then five to 16 you're considered you're considered an adult unless you're four and you outgrow your bed then you go automatically to the adult one to the adult one okay and so you had a friend in there laney which you talk about in the book and she was like she took care of you yeah i didn't realize how much she was taking care of me and how much she was protecting me and i think like

everyone's like my mom and and i've been through therapy too and i was that really hellish child that just would make it very difficult on the therapist because i wouldn't talk or anything and i had one incredible one in buffalo new york it was supposed to be a 30-minute consultation and all of a sudden my mom's like it's an hour and a half in and i'm still in there and she comes out and she's like can she oksana have some milk and some cookies she's like yeah but is this okay like we're past the time from the consultation she's like yeah after that that she's like i don't remember i don't know i know i didn't say anything i was not a talker i was not but she gave me things to draw on things and and at the end she walked out and she told my mom, like, she's going to need a lifelong therapy

for the rest of her life. She's been through some, like, it's very apparent in her body language and what she's drawing. And she, my mom was trying to figure out what it was. So that patient confidentiality, she wasn't going to tell her, but it was very apparent for her within like the first five minutes of being with me. There was a lot of deep stuff. A lot of that deep stuff was what I did not know what my friend Lainey, who was one of my best friends there in the orphanage in the last one, was protecting me from until she was gone.

And when I say gone, I mean, I'm not going to say the specifics because you can read about it, but she didn't just pass away peacefully. Unfortunately, it was a pretty traumatic way that I had to watch her die. And that's a guilt that I have with me because it was my fault of what happened and why we were out of our rooms. But that's why I wanted to write this book is because I've always felt so guilty and always wonder like, why did I make it out? Like, why, why was I the one that made it? And she wasn't. Why, why didn't like, like, I don't, why didn't like like I don't I didn't understand it and then I felt guilty about it and this was my way to honor her legacy and make her story so that she is someone it didn't just go unknown and she is there and she's been

that part of my journey the whole entire time and And yeah, she was the pretty version of me. She had the natural blonde hair. This is fake. I don't have blonde hair. And she had blue eyes and just nothing physically wrong. And she was older and just so, so sweet. like just so so kind so can i offer an observation yeah yeah so i think i'm watching you take care of yourself right now what is that yeah so like you my hair no no you're completely honest honest with what you just responded.

And there's a lot of emotion. And I can hear it in your voice. And I'm sure you can feel it. But I watched you like not go into, let's say a 10. Let's say on a scale of one to 10. It's like an eight is where I'm about to like fall into a thousand pieces and like you know like or maybe that's a nine or something right and like somewhere in the seven or eight zone i'm like okay like i can feel it but i can still manage it and i think you were right up in

that seven and eight if if if we're calibrating correctly that's because every time i talk to talk about her i get to a point where i'm fine fine fine and then all of a sudden i'm like crying and i don't want to do that on you because it's one of those things i can't um that's why i was like i'm like people can read about the specifics because when i start to talk about it there's so much there's so much power in when words come to life and you put them out there and you speak them from your mouth. And that's why I hated my story. And it was so hard for me to love my story and love myself and know what I went through wasn't my fault. But yeah, I just totally lost my train of thought where I was why I was going with that but does that happen sometimes when you when you go and kind of get close to the trauma that there's a blankness that

comes with it sometimes sometimes yeah I recognize sometimes but like not oftentimes with Lainey though like that is I think because I just saw it and heard, and it's like, sounds like that. When you watch something like that, you do not forget ever. I'm so glad we're talking about this. A big part of this book was about Lainey. But when I read this part of the book, I was like, oh, there's a hero. Right. And I wondered how you worked through that. And in the book,

the way you write about it, you pulled me right into it. It felt like I was there watching. And I wondered about the survival guilt that you might feel about that. And that's what you're dealing with now maybe or have been been and it's like it doesn't make any sense because you wouldn't have chosen that you wouldn't have you wouldn't wish that like that it's not anything close to what um either of you wanted and so it's like it doesn't make sense why was it her and not you yeah well because she pushed me she took care of you yeah we're all so lucky to have somebody like laney in our lives yeah and that's so cool because every time i race like i i'm so there's so many times and moments whether i'm training or racing

and i feel like literally like sometimes like a push and I'm like looking back to see who it is and I'm by myself. And in my mind, I've like told, that was my way of telling myself, like that is Lainey saying, I'm like right here by your side still. And then she's never left and all that kind of stuff.

So I'm pretty lucky because I have that extra secret weapon that not a lot of athletes have. And when I get really, really tired specifically, and when I feel that and I think someone's behind, it's a competitor pushing me, sometimes it is. Because it gets racist and it happens. But I'm pretty lucky to have that. And it's like that second wind.

Yeah. You have a unique experience that you have are figuring out how to integrate that into, you know, your power. Yeah. And I think that's the whole point of this book. That's exactly how to say like, like, I want people to when they read it, not to learn about my story and my experiences, but how can they make their hard parts their shitty experiences or their bad days into their power and fuel to like not just be something bad that happened like oh yeah this is a really sad memory but you know what like you started this conversation at the beginning of there's like that opposite of like that really there's always that big contrast and there's we can take from both have you ever read or

do you are you aware of Banksy's insight yeah you know the contemporary artist Banksy no about dying twice under a rock, you're training a lot, so it's understood. They say you die twice when you stop breathing. And then the second one a bit later when somebody mentions your name for the last time. Pretty cool. So Lainey's still living. How about it? Yeah.

Okay. How do you use and integrate your experiences? This is like what I really want to understand because there was an insight that you had, which was somebody asked you if you could go back and kind of change your seven-year-old's experiences and you were really bold. Do you remember what you said in that interview i would tell her i wouldn't change a thing to just keep fighting yeah except stop climbing books the bookshelves that i always got ripped from and just in trouble all the time because i clearly didn't learn from getting in trouble all the time and getting punished and i still went and did it anyways so i tell myself so are you what do you tell yourself? I would tell myself to stop doing that if I could go back in time too. Just keep fighting, but also let's not put ourselves in more trouble than we already get. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentous. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits,

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and not downhill skiing because I like to work against gravity. It's safer in that aspect. So risk-wise like that, no, I do not. But I am a very adventurous person and want to try and we'll do something at least once.

And I've always been very, I think I've always walked that line of, like right on that edge of a fear and exhilarating kind of thing. Okay, so you like that. You like that feeling. Yeah. And then, yeah.

When I can know that I am control of it, when I'm controlling every aspect of it kind of thing. So this is another insight. Before we get to the alignment piece, you had another insight, which is like for so much of me and so much of my early life, my story was written for me. Yeah. I have your, right? And then you say, but that's different on the start line.

On the start line, the story isn't written. Nothing's decided yet. Nothing is decided yet. And so much of your life was, as you put it, like decided for you. So what were the things that were decided for you? What are you capturing in that insight? Well, so when my story was written for me, I'm referring to scars that I came with that I remember and I know how I got and some I don't remember. And they were already written for me, that part of me on my body that I had no control over. What does that mean? What are those scars that you're referring to? like on my legs and my hands and stuff. And I have this one on my stomach and that I remember very vividly getting one night. And it's just like, I didn't have a control in that.

I didn't have, I didn't, like the scars now, like I'm recovering from an injury on my hand and I have the scar and I had these scars on my elbow from Pyeongchang and when I was racing and messed my elbow up, these scars I was going to control off because it's from an injury. I know where they came from. The scars that are resulted of abuse and, um, punishments or like the ones I have a lot of like IV cut down scars where it was just reused, reused. I was the smallest and the youngest. So I was the last one to get all the needles. And so they just got

infected to cut that everything out. So there's some medical scars too. And that's all that I had no control over. And I didn't say like, like I, I just, that was written for me. And in addition to that, mentally, when I came to America and started processing and understand, not even understanding, but when all the memories I thought I was suppressing and hid and told my mom, nothing ever happened. It was that like invisible scar tissue inside that was also something that was written for me. And I had to relearn how to rewire my brain and my process when I look in the mirror, in addition to going through amputations two separate times in my life. And both times, someone's telling me, well, why would you do that?

You can't do anything if you cut your legs off. And my legs are above the knee, which makes a very, very big difference if you're below the knee amputee to above the knee amputee, because you're missing two joints, an ankle and a knee. And society determines people with disabilities that were, I'm invisible. I'm not worth of, I'm not worthy of setting goals, let alone achieving those goals or love or being seen. And my biggest pet peeve is determining what I'm capable of achieving and doing based on what their limited view is. And so in that aspect, my story has been written for me as a girl with a disability, as an orphan, as an abused orphan, as a female in sports and being a smaller statue built and stuff. And I wanted to rewrite my own story.

Okay. Thank you for the insights there. And more importantly, thank you for getting so close to your experiences that I feel like I can feel it too. You're forcing, just by the way you're choosing your words, for me to be in touch with times that I felt like I wasn't seen. And I was somebody else's. My essence didn't matter as much as their experience. And I think a lot of people can understand what that means. So you take it a step further. You say I was invisible. Can, can you open that up a little

bit? Like what that's like? And I think there's, there's probably two parts. There's the, you can talk about the trauma part of course, but there's also like the, the everyday thing is like, I've learned from some Paralympic athletes that I've spent time with is that like people don't want to look. And because if they look, they don't want to make you feel different or weird. I've got the opposite problem. People stare like there's no tomorrow.

Like their eyes are about to, my pet peeve is if you're going to look, look. And then it's a question. It's when people go and they're like this and their eyes are following. It's like they're about to fall out of their heads. They're going so far. And then they're trying to look.

It's more obvious than if you just look and turn. And it's fine to look, but it's like, I'm walking through airports or anywhere in the grocery store. What's really hard is I have my prosthetics. I'm okay through airports or anywhere in the grocery store. Or, you know, what's really hard is I have my prosthetics. I'm okay with those. My hands is what drives me insane. People don't know what to do. Because sometimes when I pay for something with a card or cash,

and they go and they jump. And then like that, because it's so different, they didn't expect my hand to look the way it does. Like a little tiny T-Rex claw coming at them. And maybe I need to paint my nails. Wait, what did you call it? My little T-Rex claw. I have little short hands anyways. Like my hands are, I'm a short person. And so I try to make it up with my legs and be tall to hide for that. But my hands are like, I've had a lot, a lot of surgery, reconstruction surgery on my hands to the point like doctors don't understand how i'm using my hands because scientifically within my anatomy it makes no sense i shouldn't be able to but i found a way

like we all find ways and so you had you were born with five fingers yeah five fingers no thumb but it was like um they were all webbed and so when i was in Ukraine, I had seven surgeries to help a little bit. I was born fun fact, six toes, which is not due to radiation that apparently something like you get passed down from your parents. So I can't wait to one day meet my birth family and be like, did you have six toes? And why did you give me these eyebrows that like stop growing halfway? And I have to fill in the rest. There's a lot. So, so there's a lot there. So on the six toes, is it like literally like it's an extra toe or is it, yeah. So it's not like coming from the same.

So, yeah. And, but your fingers had like two nail beds in each finger. Yeah. Did I read that correctly? Yeah. They were all like everything doubles, but what I don't have is so like i have this one this one but then i don't have that extra joint that you do here it's just one two that's right yeah okay um yeah cool and then they took my fifth finger like moved it from here to here so i don't

have where your thumb normally be yeah so like i don't have this muscle here because it's not a thumb, which is half of your hand. What's the best type of interaction when somebody notices your hand or they're looking? Like what's the best kind of and what's the worst kind of reaction or interaction?

The worst is like when you like do a double take as if someone just poured hot water on them or cold water on them. It's like, okay, um get get cultured experience get out a little bit i know i live in is that what you say yeah like sometimes when they're rude or i'm just like god stare much i'm that person sometimes like i am i'm passive aggressive and my fiance's like no xana you are just aggressive aggressive sometimes there's no passive aggressiveness. Oh, classic.

Cool. When they need it, when they need that aggressive aggressive, I like to call people out because then it brings attention to like, oh, and maybe that will help them in the next time they see someone that they're like not used to seeing or whatever. But it's those people that come when I say, thank you for your service. And I'm like, what? So they automatically assume and associate someone with amputees

or something like that is automatically because of military. And that's what it was. And I don't know if it's because it helps them process of how and what could have happened to someone's legs and why they are the way they are. Please don't do that. I mean, I know I'm a badass and I look tough, but I'm, no, don't just assume and say thank you.

Because on the other side of that is to say, oh, I'm not in the service. I'm like, oh, oh, okay. And then just walk away. So it's like, okay, well, may I ask what happened? That's like, you could just do it that way. If you weren't in the military, I just assumed, because you look like a badass, that you could just do it that way if you weren't in the military i just assumed because you look like a badass that you could just say that and like it's okay to ask you don't have

to just stare and because you're uncomfortable like it's the only way is i have my legs i was hiding my legs i had the foam and the nylons to try and hide it. And I realized I was bringing the wrong attention and the negative stares. And people were just, they couldn't figure out like, well, what's wrong with me? Why do I walk like I got something up my back or something? And that's because they couldn't see what I was working with.

And so I decided to, sports helped me find the strength of accepting who i am and seeing it my running partner who looks so cool with his legs i'm like okay i'm gonna do this so they can see the components of it yeah it's cool i i actually really appreciate that piece it's like i i love that like insight which is like um kind of bring whatever it is to the forefront, bring it to the light. Because, you know, as you've, as you've also articulated, we all have dark tunnels. Yeah. And your mom helped you find, you know, the light through that tunnel is one of your insights.

And so like just kind of bringing things into the light makes it for me, at least when I bring something to the light, then it's like, oh, well, it's so exhausting trying to carry this thing around when I bring it to the forefront, to the light. And other people are like, oh, is that why you're all stressed out? Oh, OK. Now I understand. Cool. Yeah. I get stressed out, too. Thanks for letting me know. Yeah. So you've got can you just I think this is a segue about your tattoo. You got your rose tattoo. Which one?

Okay. Your rose tattoo. I think there's a segue here. Can you talk about one of your, the way that you have conceptualized that a rose is just a rose and your rose tattoo? So I am a Aretha Franklin fan and there was a song that just hit my heart and I identified so much with it. A specific lyric, which is a rose is still and always will be a rose. Doesn't matter what form it's in. So that, well, she said that my metaphor and taken in the way I interpret it was,

yeah, you're right. It doesn't matter a rose, whether it's a dead rose a thriving beautiful colored rose or halfway dying rose it's will always be a rose still and that kind of helped me um i've also like liked dying things too like like dandelions and weeds and dead trees and like i'm a weirdo i don't know there's something very very morbid about me sometimes. So I got this tattoo specifically placed over a scar that I had. And the way I received that scar was super traumatic in that literally, Mike, this was a scar that happened so recently when my mom adopted me, I was still picking out the stitches up until a few months after like I was in America. And then all of a sudden I'm like, I got it finally. And she

told my mom and like, that's how recent that situation happened from when she adopted me. And it was only going to get worse. She didn't get me then. Um, and it's a rose that is thriving on one side and it's transforming into a dying black and white rose and kind of frailing away. And it says a rose is still and always will be a rose on the words on the sides of it. And that was for me to remember when I look at that, not to see the scar, but to see that no matter what was taken away from you, that you're still, you're still worthy. You're still deserve love and you still are a person and you still can love yourself. What do you do to love yourself? Like, how do you practice that? I sweat it out. Not going to lie. I just sweat, work out. I just, I just have to go and throw

some weights and release that energy and stuff. And, um, I recently I'm really getting into like my me time, which is like my 3000 steps skincare routine. And it's not just because like of doing that. It's like the process I'm in the, it's kind of going back to counting. And when I'm doing each, each process of it, it's kind of just like not focused on anything else just focusing on what i'm putting on and just that process letting it 10 minutes and all that kind of stuff and and then the other side is so that girly girl side and then the just work out i to be honest i've got a lot of anger i was an angry racer and i was just a very angry kid i think people will learn why and i didn't know why i was angry and it wasn't directed to one specific thing of anger

it was just anger i don't know if you've seen uh oh gosh inside out that card like that um animated show about the emotions yeah yeah yeah it's really clever. My favorite one guy was the angry father side. Yeah. I was like, yes, I get him because it's so raw. It's so emotional and so real. And I was just that, I was always that angry kid. And I got to release that in sports. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised

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matters. If you're looking for high quality personal care products that elevate your routine without complicating it, I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash finding mastery and use the code finding mastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash finding mastery. You would use, you would come from that place. You could express that, the intensity of anger in working out. And so that's one of the ways that probably. Because I got the release.

Yeah, it was a let go. So there's also this interesting little meditative process that you had, like this full presence with the anger and intensity and the physical movement and all the attention required that there is a release valve in there for you i'm not suggesting that that that is healthy or that that is like a way to heal yeah but you're using it right yeah well and it's interesting because like you're saying you're not suggesting it's a heal i've had some injuries and you know, it's really scary and I'm going to have to find ways to heal. And this is the real honest truth because my coping in my therapy for a lot of stuff right now is sports and training and just that's my escape. And when I'm injured, what's going to happen when that goes away?

Exactly. That's right. Yeah. So, and that's, so you're aware of it. Yeah. I think, well, you're going to need another tool, right? Yeah. Well, it's right. Yeah. So, and that's, so you're aware of it. Yeah. I think, well, you're going to need another tool, right? Yeah. Well, it's coffee. I love coffee and I have a special machine and I'm just going to have to be milk 24 seven. Okay. So, all right. So let's, you've been through highs and lows as all of us have. I think, um, yours are really unique and your lows are pretty damn low and your highs are pretty damn high.

You know, like I don't know what it's like to stay on a podium, you know, a global podium like you have. And so and I also don't know the lows that you've I don't I haven't lived in your body. So my point is, though, how do you how do you think about mindset? How do you think about the way that you approach an event or events in your life? Well, I don't know. This is honestly something that is kind of like a new territory for me and I'm still learning to navigate it and still trying to find the, how do I approach the, approach it in that way and the mindset of it. But I think it's, it's, it's going to sound so weird, but like, I'm so thankful for what I,

what I experienced and what I went through and my mindset, instead of being so angry, like I was at that time, because what I lived and what I experienced. And when I, um, now these are tools I have because I walk that path. I now know know nothing's going to get as bad as that, first of all. And now what I'm doing here, I'm in complete control and can have the option to choose how I want to approach this. And there's some times where it's good and sometimes it's not. No, that type of taking responsibility, I think,

is probably right at the center. Unless you have advice. I don't know. I have no idea sounds yeah no no no I yeah I would not dare to give you advice but I think that that um that sounds like okay that's probably a pretty powerful place to come from like I'm gonna I'm in control of how I'm gonna use my mind I'm in control of how I'm going to use my mind. I'm in control of how I'm going to work with my emotions. I'm in control of how I'm going to show up. And so it feels like that would be a really powerful orientation to come from. And then you've also got like this other really powerful, I think there's a dovetail here, is that it's a quote in your book. Let me just see if I can read this to you. I feel like the theme that people focus on in the story of a Paralympian is the hardship and not the

athleticism. That's the most frustrating thing on earth. It's like orphan girl, no legs, skier. That's always first. It pisses me off to the core because, excuse me, I'm not an orphan anymore. I have an amazing family. Stop using that as a line. And my legs are what created the opportunity for me to be an athlete. I'm not missing legs. I guarantee you 99% of Paralympians are not viewing themselves in that way that the media is portraying them. We've turned into inspiration porn in some ways. If people could see the behind the scenes conversation that we have, they would better understand.

So like pretty rad insight. So like, when I say that to you, what do you mean? Like when you think of an athlete like Serena Williams or Michael Jordan, first thing that pops into 90% of people's minds is what they've achieved and that go greatest of all time. But when you think of a Paralympian and you think, you think about, oh, well, what happened to your body? Where did you come from? And it's beyond frustrating to be constantly seen, not by what you're doing, what your actions are, what you have done with your

life, despite of where you come from, the path you've walked. And there's still the path people want to focus on that. And there's this discrepancy on the way we view professional athletes, businessmen, businesswomen. I mean, it's not just in athletes. It happens everywhere. And people kind of pity in some ways and have this very different approach and just want to change the tone and the conversation and the dialogue of Paralympic athletes. The sweat equity is exactly the same as professional athletes, as Olympic athletes, and just not just athletes, like I said, but also in business world. You go get a degree, college degree degree you work your steps up and you're a business owner or which a ceo whatever it is it's not where you where you come from

it's important it's shaped you but it's not your identity of who you are it's exactly what you're doing from this in the moment and your actions. Yeah. I see you. So earlier you said, like, I'm a badass. And I agree. And to me, you're a badass because of your psychology. Thanks.

And yeah, the way that you have applied yourself in the physical world is like the expression of your mind. And so it's like you're, you've used your body just like any athlete uses their body, um, as an extension of how they use their mind. And so like, that's what I'm impressed by. So I want to make sure that I, I heard how you think about that and then also say, like, I know that that's where we started this conversation. But for me, it's about your psychology. It's about how you work with your past trauma and how you approach this present moment, whatever this moment is, and how you think about your future.

And that's the psychology of you I'm trying to understand better because your insights are remarkable. And what you've done as a demonstration of them is evident. I think that's where I'm very lucky because I've had people ask, where does this all insight come? But I think it's the first seven and a half years of my life, I didn't have a voice. I was just an observer of my environment and of how people like good and bad people acted and all different types of i saw a lot of different experiences and i internalized and just think that and then lived and threw metaphors and very philosophically in very metaphor ways

well no childhood you would not want your child there's no child that we would ever like no you want them to share their voice to make jesus like what you live though is like that i mean it's it's childhood hell that i don't know another way of thinking but there were some really good times too like i've had yeah really incredible memories too and it's funny how those are even though there weren't that many memories of those incredible amazing times they're stronger than the three billion times more bad that i experienced if that makes sense at all look at that what an incredible survival strategy that is, or like a natural strategy is to hold on to those wonderful moments. And it doesn't mitigate the others, but it's like, it's almost

like this counterbalance that you figured out is like, no, I need to also hold on to these and savor these wonderful moments and make sure that they're close to the surface as part of like survival. And I also hear you use the word lucky a bunch. Oh, yeah. That's true. The title of the book is Pretty Damn Lucky. Is that a grounded philosophy for you that I feel pretty damn lucky in life? I mean, I'm pretty lucky. I don't know what else you explain besides just luck. The chance that my mom saw a picture of me and she tried to get me when I was five is when she learned about me. Ukraine closed adoptions and put a moratorium on all foreign adoptions.

There's a ban. And the U.S. said the same thing I don't know any other word except luck because during those two years everyone was telling her to just you can go to Russia you can get a baby you wanted a baby you um like you can have a kid in like a month you don't know when this is going to happen. You don't know when, if she'll still be alive and all this stuff. And she waited for me. That's luck in that moment. Cause I didn't control that. I get confused by luck and I get confused because I don't know what to think

about luck really. So I'm learning from you here because I mean, I just don't know what to think about it. Because people say I've been lucky or like that you've been lucky or whatever. And I go, I don't know. Because I could follow it the other way and say bad luck where you were born, you know, and the conditions there at the orphanage or good luck that you had a mom, good luck that you were born with, um, you know, the, some sort of, uh, ability to be super resourceful, like whatever genetic coding that might have. So good luck,

bad luck. I don't know, but where I, but I hear you saying, no, I'm lucky. And I go, oh, that's you also paying attention or attending to the favorable parts of your life and amplifying those. And so then I, I see that working. And then are you familiar with the, um, the Zen farmer story, the parable? No, because I still live under a rock. Okay. So once upon a time, as most Zen parables might start, there's an old farmer who was working his crops for many years, and then his horse ran away.

And upon hearing that news, his neighbors all came to visit, and they said, oh, such bad luck. You know, they said sympathetically to him, you know, you must be really upset. Yeah. And the farmer says, we'll see. Good luck, bad luck, who knows. And then the next day, the horse returns, bringing, you know, with it other wild horses. And, you know, then the neighbors come and they're like, oh, my God, how wonderful.

Like your horse returned and you received two more. Like, this is amazing. And he says, we'll see, you know, good luck, bad luck, who knows. And then the next day, his son tried to ride, you know, one of the untamed horses and then he was thrown off and broke a leg and the neighbors came back and said, oh my gosh, you know, so sorry to hear about your son, you know, and that he can't help you with farming. And this is terrible. And then, you know, what bad luck. And then the farmer says, we'll see. Good luck, bad luck, who knows.

And then the last day of this parable, the military officials come through the village and they're taking all the young men who are able bodied to be able to, you know, to work in the military. And they pass him over because his legs were broken and then all the neighbors come running back and say oh my gosh congratulations you know your son you know he's not going to war and this is like great news you must be so happy and and the man the farmer says you know we'll see good luck bad luck who knows and so that zen parable like sticks with me. Like, I don't know.

You think it's a mindset? Because he didn't choose. He didn't like write the negative and bad, like bad luck yet. He just, it's kind of, yeah. So maybe that's what it is. Like, it's, like we said, there's like power in word. If you like put these words out there from your mouth, it's like, yeah, it's bad luck. You're going to see all the bad in it only.

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deeper rest, and feeling more recovered when they jump into their work here at Finding Mastery. Lisa has several models to choose from, so whether you're a side sleeper or stomach sleeper or somewhere in between there's a fit designed specifically for you and what i appreciate most is their purpose they've donated over 41 000 mattresses to people in need i love that so right now you can get 25 off all mattresses at lisa.com plus an extra $50 off when you use the code finding mastery at checkout. That's lisa, L E E S a.com. The promo code is finding mastery for 25% off and then plus an extra $50 on us because quality sleep is just too important to leave to chance. So how do you do that? How do you, how do you speak to yourself like your self-talk? Cause

there's words that we put out and then there's words that we use in. And so how do you use your, your internal narrative, um, to be a badass? Well, to be honest, my internal narrative is pretty, uh, hard on myself. I, it's not, it's not high self-critique yeah like when i um or self-doubt or both i'm i'm and this is where it's so weird because it's like oh well you're so like you inspire me to do this and you just motivated me but then i'm my myself there are words i would never tell myself inside before any big event and i I'm the biggest, um, everyone believes in me. And I don't know if that was scares me is when people believe that I started to doubt myself. But the weird thing is it's like this fine line. Cause I doubt myself, but I don't, and I don't know how to

articulate this because it's more of a feeling. It's like, okay, I say this, but there's so many people like, well, don't say this. And it's actually going to contradict what I just said. Oh, well, if he's saying it's bad luck, the mindset is going to be bad because he's focusing on the bad. I feel like, I don't know why and how I'm doing this, but I'm doubting myself. I'm pinpointing why I'm doubting myself. And in some form, when that race starts, I want to nail this aspect of what I'm doubting in that race. And I'm ready for it because I know it's coming. If that makes sense. It doesn't make sense. No, no, I'm actually confused. So yeah, no, no. You're like, yeah, me too. Okay, good. So, so, all right. So you say, let's, let's break it apart. You say,

I've got lots of self-doubt. I've got lots of self-critical. Like you say, let's break it apart. You say, I've got lots of self-doubt. I've got lots of self-critical. Like it's not wonderful to be in my head sometimes. It's not probably all the time because. No, not all the time. There's just, it's like an event or like. So it's prior to an event. Prior to an event.

And then some of my teammates just get really frustrated with me sometimes because even if I won, all I can focus on is that thing that went wrong. And I'm mad about that. That's the only thing I can't let go. Okay. So that got you good. Let's be clear. That's not good enough. I can do that better. Come on, Xana, let's go. Get your shit together. Right? Like that type of thing got you good. it's in the weight room on the track holding a gun whatever it might be like that got you good and then it sounds like that has facilitated intense preparation but but debilitates the ability to have freedom and peace so there's a there's this you gotten, you are literally the most decorated Paralympic athlete in the Winter Games. And you've won more medals than any other Olympian in the Winter Games. I think that that's a fair data point, right? I'm sorry, Apollo Ono. What's up, Apollo?

He's a friend. And so that's awesome. Yeah. And so, all right. So here you are. And you're saying, yeah, what got me here is I kick my own ass a lot. And I don't wish this on anybody. What's the next level for you?

Like, would you train your daughter? Would you train her in this approach? No. You would not? Like I would have her be proud of herself and let herself celebrate the good and the win or the really good moments. And we talk about the good moments first, I feel like for her, where for me, what i need to do more and better of is focus on the good things on that race and wow and then like okay but i really didn't like this instead of flip it and focus on the bad and the first thought is bad so that's what you're working on. Yeah. Okay. But then it's weird because I think this is where by the environment that I grew up in and my neurological system, the way it's wired, is so used to being told negative, bad things.

And what I'm used to is proving myself wrong, proving them wrong, fighting for the food, fighting to survive. So it became this weird push-pull comfort level of self-doubt in a way. When I doubt myself, I'm not doubting myself. It's like, even though I'm talking to myself, I'm not perceiving it as my voice. Oksana, what are you talking, like, oh my God, like, you're not ready for this at all. You haven't done, you didn't make every single day count. Look how strong they look. And I'm focusing on all the other opponent's strengths and giving them the benefit of the doubt. Well, they had a bad race.

I just got lucky. And it's this internal dialogue that, because it's a process I've only, like I process it all while I'm in the sport itself. And then outside, I'm learning how to 90% of people, which is downgrading one's own history and body of work, attributing, and I'm going to go, I'm going to be antagonistic to you a little bit, attributing a little bit of luck to your success and skill to them. So the reason they're so good is because they are badasses. And, you know, I just kind of got lucky. Because you know that maybe you got a little quicker start than you normally would have or whatever happened. Like you squinted at one of the targets and it went in.

You're not supposed to squint. That happens too. Lucky shots. Of course it does. But it's because of the follow through. You have to have good like body first. But there's some good lucky hits too. Yeah. So, so, but that, that equation of downgrading your body of work and upgrading

the skill of the other people is a disaster, right? It's, it's like the substrate of anxiety. It's the substrate of, of self-doubt. And then if you add a little self-criticalness on it, it becomes pretty toxic. And I, I want to make sure I heard you correctly. Like you speak to yourself in a way that you would never let somebody else speak to you that way. Did you say that? Or did I just kind of make that up in my head? I would never say that to a friend, like, or like, I would never let a friend be spoken to or thought of that way. But yeah, that's, that's really interesting, isn't it? Because you, you take care of other people, right? The way Lainey took care of you, probably the way your mom helped support you, right?

So you know that well. But I think most people would recognize that too. It's like they would never, they speak to themselves in a way that they would never speak that way to another person. Like if I say to myself, come on, Gervais, get your shit together. What is wrong with you?

By the way, I'm done saying that to myself. Like I've reached a certain point in my love of myself that I was like, yeah, I got to be done with that type of thinking. But I would not let somebody else talk to me that way. And I would never coach somebody that way. So that's when I knew it was really twisted. And how are you going to let go of that? Like, how do you imagine it? Well, hold on. Do you want to let go of that? I think I heard you say that you do, but I don't want to presume. Well, I do because, well, it's weird because I only do that in the sporting environment. I don't do that outside of a sport, outside of a start line and racing and before, not a start line, but the pre start line line and racing and before not a start line but the pre-start line

area and the night before and I guess yeah so I'm only doing it in that moment of of when I'm expected of something I guess and you know it's interesting because and I'm just trying to find the words because like in my mind I'm like is, I don't know how to put like a word to a feeling, because it's not necessarily one of that. It's a feeling that's very similar to when I was in Ukraine and your back is against the wall. And it's a very familiar feeling for me. It's impossible to just, okay, well, work through it, throw that out because it's really toxic. I think I have found a way for me that how to just harness it to that line of where it's good, but I don't live in what the words I'm speaking to myself. And I don't actually take that to heart outside of that race

and view myself that way in the mirror at all. And I don't know, maybe this is what I need to do to be for next season, for Paris, when I am working on my comeback, this injury, is get rid of that. Because we had a sports psychologist that he and i think part of it is because to be honest it's because my processing and healing still is in that moment of sport and so it's processing the memories working through them through that emotion of your backs against

the wall and you have to like fight i don't know it's like it's just a weird twist a little ball that is i have found how to shape this ball to be a positive hopefully yeah and i'll just use the ball bouncing metaphor like do you want to at some point i think we all there's an important question like the ball that i'm bouncing now do i want to keep bouncing this ball or is there is Or is there a different one I want to pick up? Because I know this one. I know where the flat spots are. I know where the bounce is kind of weird. But is there another, it's a weird metaphor that we're trying to make come alive here a little bit, but I like the vine metaphor a little bit. I know how to swing on this vine, but the longer I swing on the vine, more momentum i lose and at some point i've got to take

that vulnerable step to go to a new vine and i'm not suggesting this is the one for you but yeah i think most of us can recognize that um we don't want to speak to ourselves we don't beat ourselves up yeah you know we're like we don't want to we don't want to do that because it just kind of leaves a death by a thousand cuts what i was going to say is like in the book, I talk about our sports psychologist I worked with for the biathlon side. When I realized the transition of not racing so angry and the sustainability of it, he had me put my hands out. And he said, think of the things that make you angry. Because he could see the way I just approached,

the way I talked and the tone was always very, he's very animals, Tasmanian devil, because we're very aggressive, destructive, little, I leave a little, if you've seen the commercial where he comes through the nice little China buffet or whatever and destroys everything and leaves, that's me. And he had me put my hands out and he's like, think of something that makes you angry that you feel like is your power and your secret power and making you strong when you race. And he put, pushing on my hands and had me resist against it. And I could resist, but not for a very long time. And then he's like, think of something that makes you happy.

And so for me instantly I thought of my mom and lady, because that was just these explosively strong, powerful things. And it was at first he pushed down, but I was able to resist against him and was sustaining that resistance from him and that's where that moment when i felt that physical oh shit i feel it i see what you're saying that's i think is what for me because i'm a physical person i have to experience it and feel it to get to like find that new ball kind of thing. And I think it is with this and it's just learning how to think.

Okay. Awesome. Last thoughts. What do you want to say to your mom? Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I don't honestly, I have no idea because literally there is not one single word that exists in any dictionary in this world in any language that describes who she is and could ever describe the emotions and what she means to me who she is because they don't exist yet in this language but I'd say thank you for picking me out of all the people for not giving up on me for saving me and i'm sorry for the gray hair that you got before we left ukraine that month and just she's the reason why she saved

my life she literally saved my life and then she saved my life again by introducing the world of sports for me and realizing this is going to be her outlet to release this when she doesn't know how to articulate things until she finds it. I want to encourage people to read the book, your book, The Hard Parts. And your mom, one of the things I'm going to, one of the things I'm going to ask is to, for an introduction to your mom, to have her on the podcast. Your mom is epic. And the way that she kind of put it all out there and fought for you and like didn't know what she was doing in it, but trusted. That's the crazy thing. She doesn't, she never made a conscious decision once she's the kind of person like she also fought her own battles as a female at that

time getting a phd and going through that and just in the in the very male dominated world and then adopting a single parent when some when she's being constantly challenged like is something wrong with you what's wrong with your mind why are you not married why you can't do this she had to put a man down on the adoption papers because you had to have a father and she was like now she's like i don't know why i didn't put like bruce willis i don't know some like big person down or something but but um yeah like she's she's incredible and everything i am is by watching her fight and not give up for me.

What do you hope for? All I want is I want to be that person behind the scenes where no one knows who or what or why this one part of this world is better and this, oh my gosh, this sport is incredible or why, I just want to i want to leave my imprint i don't want to leave a record because that is going to get diminished at some point i just want to leave an imprint of a better world and it's better because i had one little

ounce of grain of sand to put into that giant pot that we all contribute to. I don't want to be known for that. Yes. I don't know. More of that please in the world. Okay. It all comes down to. It all comes down to belief. If you knew what I knew you would.

Never give up. You are awesome. I believe everything that you've said you know what would you title this episode this episode yeah i don't know i don't know it was like it was um it's incredible it's like one of my favorite conversations i've ever had so thank you so so much it's just you're just saying you say that to all folks no i swear no my mom's life no but honestly it's something so i don't know i have no idea i have to think about it i don't know how to yeah i mean it's something about badass right and like you know like it's finding like it's not finding your I have to think about it. let go of being a badass but like what's that next version yeah what's that next iteration of you and

it's probably going to be back returning back to that feeling of being at home everywhere you go you know that sense of wholeness yeah everything that i felt when i saw my mom for the first time in ukraine was home oh my god We're going to do a part two, right? Because that, I think that, that what you just did is that feeling is probably the most power. One of the most powerful anger is powerful. So I don't want, I don't want to diminish it, but it's just like, when you play with fire, you get burned and it's not sustainable and it's draining and, and, and, but that feeling is like benevolent and life-giving and amazing and far deeper. And so I wonder how you'll play with that insight. Let's catch up again. Okay.

Like, um, I'm in your corner. I love what you're doing. I want people to buy your book, be part of your community. I feel fortunate to spend this time. So however I can help on the road to Paris, let me know. I'm stoked that you're doing work on the inner game, you know, with the sports side. That's awesome. I wish everybody that same commitment in their own life. And then I just want to, again, I want to say thank you. Oh my gosh.

Thank you so, so much. I feel like I could talk to you for like three hours. Thank you so much for letting me blab on. Yeah, let's do another one. And then I want to make sure I get connected to you for like three hours. Thank you so much for letting me blab on. Yeah. Ditto. Let's do another one. And then I want to make sure I get connected to your mom as well. Absolutely.

Although she's like a person that literally, I guess the best way to describe her is she's like, you'll know her whole life story, the checkout line. And I'm like, mom, they don't need to know where you went to school and just like what you did and what you ate last night. But to sum up my mom, she is one of those people that she'll give you the shirt off her back. And if it's that color you hate, she will find you that favorite color shirt

after she took hers off. Like she's just that person. That's really cool. All right. So where do you want to hope people go to like to support you and be part of your community? Is it is it social as a website? you have and tackle the world. All right, let's go do it. I appreciate you, Oksana. Thank you so much again. Okay. Bye. Cheers. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you.

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