Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Football’s Dirty Secret: It’s Not About the Best Team—It’s About Who Adapts | The Game Inside The Games, Ep. 3

Episode Date: February 7, 2025

The Super Bowl isn’t always won by the best team—it’s won by the team that adapts when everything falls apart.In this episode of The Game Inside the Games, Dr. Michael Gervais and Greg Olsen break down the hidden battle of the Super Bowl—the fight to stay mentally agile when the game doesn’t go as planned. Greg shares firsthand insights from Super Bowl 50, where he faced Peyton Manning and the Denver Broncos, revealing what happens when strategy collides with chaos.Later, Pittsburgh Steelers legend Cam Heyward joins the conversation to talk about how elite athletes handle pressure, quiet the noise, and mentally adjust when the stakes are at their highest.Because in the Super Bowl—and in life—it’s not about having the perfect plan. It’s about knowing what to do when the plan is gone.Subscribe now and follow along with Finding Mastery all week as we unlock the mindset of high-performance athletes on the world’s biggest stage. Get The Game Inside The Games on Youtube, Apple, Spotify, and wherever you listen to podcasts.…This episode is brought to you by…Microsoft CopilotTry Copilot for yourself → https://rb.gy/u8xr9z Find the right Microsoft Partner for your organization → https://rb.gy/xb3kgt Mack WeldonGet 20% off orders $100+ with code FINDINGMASTERY → https://rb.gy/8gsani_________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

. Welcome to the game inside the games presented by Microsoft Co-Pilot. I'm Sport and Performance Psychologist, Dr. Michael Gervais. I'm Greg Olson. Together, we're pulling back the curtain on the psychology of pivotal moments that can define or derail a Super Bowl dream. For 60 minutes, two teams step onto the biggest stage in sports,

the Super Bowl. Millions watching, legacies on the line, the pressure is suffocating. The game moves at warp speed. The difference between hosting the Lombardi Trophy or watching someone else do it, often it comes down to just one thing. How well can a team adjust when their plan falls apart? The first casualty of war is the plan. And nowhere is that more true than the Super Bowl. Both teams spend two weeks preparing for a game plan.

They spend the entire season getting ready to be able to perform at the Super Bowl. But the second the ball is kicked off, chaos takes over. It's a game-changing turnover. It could take place, an injury, an unexpected defensive scheme. The team that adapts, those teams win. The teams that freeze, they break. This game won't just be won by the better team. It will be won by the team that responds better to adversity,

the one who's more agile will win. Because in the Super Bowl, it's not only about who has the best plan, it's about who knows what to do when that plan is gone. Pittsburgh Steeler legend, Cain Hayward, is going to jump into conversation with us today. We're so happy to have him. Greg, game plans rarely survive first contact. And can you talk about your Super Bowl experience

at Super Bowl 50 and how the first moment started for you? Yeah, so, you know, obviously our memories of Super Bowl 50 are not great. I mean, obviously the experience, the season, everything that went into it was incredible, but the game itself kind of fell apart on us. And I think it's, you know, it's very, it's a great conversation for the topic you want to explore because we had a game plan going in that we need to be really good in pass protection, really good helping our edges. Von Miller, that was one of the best defenses in all of football.

And we were the best offense in football. We were scoring 30 a game. We scored 47 points in the NFC Championship against the Arizona Cardinals. We scored 30-something against the Seahawks. I mean, we played Seattle, a legendary defense. Arizona, one of the top teams in the league. So, I mean, we felt like we were pretty tested. We felt offensively we were playing as well as we would have liked.

We had only lost one game the entire season. We were 17-1 going into the Super Bowl. You didn't know how to lose, really. We lost one game the entire season. We were 17 and one going into the Super Bowl. So you didn't know how to lose. We lost one game the day after Christmas. It was it was Christmas Day and we were 14 and 0. Wow. And, you know, so to your point, it all kind of fell apart on us. And, you know, we we picked a really bad day to have our worst offensive performance. We had a couple of strip sacks, one for a touchdown that kind of put us on our heels early. But you know, my biggest memory, like when my kids asked me, my biggest memory of that game,

the first third down of the game, it was like third and nine. It was third and long. And I caught the ball and I was about a yard and a half short on my depth of my route. So I caught it. I got hit immediately and take it down. It was fourth and short. Maybe in today's football we go for it, but we don't. We punt. And I just think, like, that was one play. Now, was it the difference of the game? Who knows. But, like, I think all the time, like, if I get that first first down,

we maintain possession. Field position's different. When Von Miller does these strips sack us because we're backed up. And, you know, those are the plays that you live with forever. And no matter how good your plan is, no matter how well you think you're prepared, it doesn't always go the way you want. Things are happening really fast.

Route depths, pass protection, edges, chips. And we turned the ball over a ton. We still had the ball with an opportunity in the second half to tie the game because our defense was awesome. And, you know, We just came up short. When you were off on your depth, and I don't think people quite realize the

harmony that happens between you and the quarterback, the timing, and the number of steps and plant on your right foot and turn or whatever it might have been. That is very, very technical. When you knew that you came very technical and when you knew that you came up short that you you didn't get your right depth how did you deal with that how did you adjust psychologically you know i think in the moment of the game you don't you don't you

don't know the ramifications right like you just let it go yeah you're on to the next play you're you're talking on the sideline about the next possession our defense was rolling we kept getting the ball back so we we i don't think at any point we ever felt like – it felt like any time we got the ball, it was like, okay, here's the drive that we become what we've been. Like we're about to get it rolling. We're about to get it rolling. And then we had a couple of turnovers and a couple of plays that didn't go our way, and we just never actually got it rolling.

So, yeah, we fell down 10-0, and then we scored. We went on a nice long drive and scored. I think we made it 10-7, give or take, and then it kind of just never could crack it. But in the second half, it was 13-7 or 14-7. It was a one-score game for most of the game, and we just couldn't get that one drive. We couldn't get that one play to really spark us,

and that was something that we really hung our hat on all year long. All right. Now it's time for the Confidence Playbook, a special segment presented by Mack Weldon, where we explore the critical role of confidence in high consequence environments. Is there a difference between confidence and overconfidence for you? Yeah, I think overconfidence sometimes people that are, when I think of overconfidence, I don't know from a clinical standpoint,

but when I think of overconfidence, I think there might be some shortcut. I think there might be some, okay, I've arrived, complacency. That's kind of the words that come to mind when I think of overconfident. I don't think we were. I think we were a confident team. We were an emotional team. We played with a lot of energy and a lot of – that was kind of our personality. But we prepared hard. I thought we were really well prepared for the game.

As anyone who's ever played sports know, best laid plans go astray pretty quick in the NFL. And, you know, they were a really good team all year. We knew it was going to be a big challenge. And obviously we picked a bad day to have a bad day. Mack Weldon is on a mission to help men feel more confident through their collection of high quality apparel that blend timeless style, modern comfort, and substance over image. For 20% off your first order over $100, shop now at MackWeldon.com and use the code FINDINGMASTERY at

checkout. And the game inside the games is really about pivoting and adjusting, being psychologically agile, staying one play at a time all right let's go we got this all right let's figure this out yep and that that agility is going to pay dividends for you as a parent as you know a partner and as a business person so i think for all of us knowing how to work and be really nimble yeah with how that we're managing the situation is a lifelong opportunity. To adapt or die. Maybe not in a literal sense, but that's the idea. It actually is literal, too.

Yeah, well done. Just trying not to make it so dark. Okay, what a surprise. This is the best part of Radio Row. Look who just drops in. Legend. Cam, how are you? They cut my shirt just for the record. They cut my episode shirt.

I don't know why. I want to hear more from you. Yeah, there we go. Alright, so do a quick little introduction to our community about your history in football and what you're doing here as well. Yeah, Cam Hayward from the Pittsburgh Steelers. I've been in the NFL

for 14 years now. Look at this. Two 14-year vets. He's still going. He's still going. He's still going. I'm trying to go. Yeah. But, you know, enjoying it. I've enjoyed my time with the Pittsburgh Steelers, and I don't even know what more to say.

Yeah. Well, you got to compete with one of our teammates, former teammates, Russell Wilson. Yes. Yeah. So, you know, Russ is no longer with the team. Is that right? He's a free agent right now. So we'll see what happens. Yeah. Cool. So, you know, Russ is no longer with the team. Is that right? He's a free agent right now.

We'll see what happens. Yeah, cool. So, all right. So we're talking about the game inside the game, right? So the things that are often unseen and uncelebrated, but we all know that it's what makes the thing happen. Right. Your psychology, the emotions that are coming with it.

So we were talking with Greg about nervous energy, about starting the game. And so can you just talk about this crazy kind of thing that's happening here and what it's like for the athletes that are competing for the Super Bowl? What are you imagining? The nervous energy is at an all-time high. It is.

But it's something you've prepared for your entire life. It's something you've dreamed about. But you got to embrace it. I just, you know, for me, I've always been, if I don't get butterflies, there is a problem. It means I don't need to be playing anymore because I get butterflies every time I step on the field, just going through the motions, just, you know, when you see the flyby or, you know, you hear the national anthem and it's like these little things that just stack on top of it. It's like the first play. I'm like, I need to make a hit just to get those butterflies out

because it's just all building up so much. So in the locker room, this is for both you guys, in the locker room, are you framing a playoff game or a Super Bowl game, are you framing it as the big game or are you framing a playoff game or a Super Bowl game, are you framing it as the big game, or are you framing it as another game, this is what I do, I'm going to go and do my job? How do you frame the whole thing? I think that's part probably of the maturation process of just going through the ebbs and flows and kind of evolving in your career.

I think early on, I remember my first ever playoff game, it was actually against the Seahawks. It was 2010. I was in Chicago at the time and we were playing you guys in I think it was Pete's first or second year. We beat you pretty good. The field was a little suspect.

It was January in Chicago. That's ball. Somehow you guys had the right cleats, and we didn't. All I know is I caught a touchdown on the first half. The rest of it I don't remember. It's too funny. No, but all seriousness, I think, and I'll tell you, I give Pete Carroll,

again, it was at the end of my career. So early in my career, yeah, Monday night football, Sunday night football. When I was in Chicago, it's Packers week. You kind of put a label on every game, bigger, more significant, less significant. And I think early on you're naive, you don't know better, but that's probably the wrong way of going about it. And I think over the course of your career and you start maturing and you start getting a better sense of like in the NFL especially,

you used to get only 16. Now you get 17 of them, right? Like, they're so limited. At the end of the year, that one win, that one loss, that's the difference between winning your division and hosting a game or coming in second in your division, and now you're on the road through the whole playoffs. Like, the razor's edge, it's so small that every game is the game.

And I'll never forget Pete Carroll, my year out there. It was at the end of my career. But he's probably the coach that most clearly said, every week is the biggest game we've ever played. He's like, you need to play 17 playoff games. Because when we make the playoffs, that's just going to be our 18th playoff game. And I thought Pete did a really good job framing that to the team, to the young guys who might not have gone through those trials

and tribulations throughout their career, but that's something that I've carried with me now to everything. I say this to all of our kids all the time. Everything matters, right? There's no such thing. If nothing matters, then nothing matters. So, like, we try to make it that everything's important, that everything is the most important aspect of the play, of the game,

of the matchup, whatever. And I think that's something maybe that happens over time. Before you get in, Cam, is that how you did the Super Bowl? That this is just another game? Or did you have extra juice around it? You definitely have. No, not you, you. I always have.

I'm an emotional person by nature. But was it elevated? Were you seeing it when you played in it that this is the game and I got to be great and, like, this is my moment? Yeah, you're warming up and you look around the sidelines and it's every person you've ever seen your entire life. And, you know, pregame is this whole brouhaha, and halftime is an hour long. And it's just – anyone who plays in the Super Bowl for the first time, the first thing –

again, we lost, so you really wanted to get back. But I always felt like if we got there again, we would have handled it so much better. There is such value to doing it multiple times because no matter how many times people try to prepare you, tell you what it's going to be like, until you experience it firsthand, it's almost like an out-of-body experience. I'll never forget walking back into the locker room, and of course you lose, and you're heartbroken, and it's like, it's over.

You're almost like, can we start it over again? Like, I'm ready now, you know. But obviously you don't. How about for you, Cam? You know, for us, it was more of we never tried to look at the team when we're playing. It was more of, you know, Coach always talks about nameless gray faces and not looking at the team. What did he say? Nameless gray faces.

Got it, yeah. And more looking inward and seeing, you know, what's your routine look like? Do you have a rhythm? Because I'm a guy who just thrives off a rhythm. You know, you get into this routine of I have to do this every single game. That's right. It allows us to just, you know, settle in that way than just say, oh, we're playing this team.

This is a big week. That way you don't deal with those big spurts of going up and down and just try to stay even-keeled. Cam, you're a big week. That way you don't deal with those big spurts of going up and down and just try to stay even-keeled. Cam, you're a legendary player. What was one of your bigger fears that you had going into games in general? I think early on in my career, I would say, am I living up to expectations? Am I, you know, and I learned that I don't care about the expectations of what others think. I care about my own expectations. And where did those come from for you?

Your expectations on yourself? Because I adopted them. I have high standards and high expectations, but I didn't come into this world with them. No. I feel like for me personally is that I wanted to be great for my family, for my parents, because there was like, that's not good enough at a young age. Like you can do better. And that's why I first started to learn it, healthy and unhealthy in both ways. But like, where did it come from for you? Well, I'm playing in a city where my dad played college ball.

So there was already a legacy built there. Yeah. But understanding that, you know, there's a lot of tradition, a lot of history being part of the Pittsburgh Steelers. It's either I need to raise my level to be amongst them or, you know, I have to surpass them. Whether it's, you know, breaking down tape throughout the entire offseason, just studying, you know, who are the top guys in my position, and then how do I continue

to keep raising my level? Can we just talk real quick? I'll just do a quick aside. Yeah. For those that don't know, we've talked about this. We talked about his father, Ironhead Hayward. My dad, at Passaic High School, was his father's high school football coach. So when you ask my dad, to this day, he was sitting right here.

So he coached me and my brothers. We all went to play in college. Obviously, I got to play in the NFL. My dad coached a bunch of other NFL guys throughout his day. If you ask him right now who is the best athlete you've ever been around, seen, most like wow, first reaction to seeing them. It will take him zero time. Ironhead Hayward.

He tells stories about him as a young player. I think he was in ninth, tenth grade when my dad first coached him at Passaic before my dad moved on to a different school. But, like, he said he was unlike anybody he's ever been around had ever ever been around like your dad was unbelievable i mean the chances that we played against each other and my dad was your dad's high school football coach was pretty incredible it's crazy well then my godfather yeah Al, he's your... I've known Uncle Al since we were two years old. Al Matarosi. It is a small world.

My dad and Al were super close. Obviously, my dad and Al knew each other from Ironhead and just the whole connections there in Passaic. My dad, all those old-timers there in Passaic, they still, Charlie Allen, they all still keep in touch. Sometimes when we have really famous... Quick aside. No, it's beautiful. Really famous or well-known parents. They cast a spotlight or they cast a shadow. And so it can be hard growing up in either the spotlight or the shadow of a legend.

So what was it like for you? Because that would materially shape your inner game, like how you were thinking about you and what you do. Well, you know, I feel like early on as a kid, you always have a bullseye on your back, you know, oh, that's Ironhead's kid. You know, they're going to, they're going to, they're going to seek you out. Were you always big? Like this big? Yeah. I was, have you ever seen the movie Jack with Robin Williams? That's how I was in school. So much bigger than everybody else. Oh, my God. That is great.

What a visual. But, like, you know, for me, I remember Coach Trestle at Ohio State told me this. His dad was well-known in Ohio. And, you know, he got a street named after him. But his thing was, yeah, he got a street named after him. I want a highway named after him. But his thing was, yeah, he got a street named after him. I want a highway named after me. And so it was that kind of thinking for me where, yeah, my dad's had this legacy,

but how can I continue to keep living on and even make it bigger? And so that's all I've just tried to live by. How much of that was pressure and how much of it was the baton that was being passed? So the baton being passed is like street to highway yeah and like thank you like i really appreciate that you gave me a roof over my house a roof over my head and and and versus like man i don't want to blow this thing because what if he had a street

and like i'm not known and i blow it i think you know you can look at it as pressure but like i wasn't going to let myself get to a point where, you know, I wasn't going to take no for an answer. How did you do that? If the listener or viewer could understand that mentality, what did you say to yourself, like, to be able to do that? Well, like, my dad passed away before my senior year in high school. There it is. And my mom really stepped up in my family when he passed away. You know, I call her like my agent when she was interviewing coaches where she was asking

about 3-4, 4-3, how many D tackles do you have, how many D ends. These weren't normal questions being asked. And so, you know, watching that and understanding that, you know, she was willing to fight for me. So when I got to those, I felt comfortable, yeah, I can do this. I feel confident in my abilities. I might not be everybody's pick to start the season, but I'm gonna work my way to keep improving where I'll feel comfortable when we get

there, and that's just always how it's been. You might draft people over me, but I feel like I'm confident to when we get there. And that's just always how it's been. You know, you might draft people over me, but I feel like I'm confident to go wherever I am. And, you know, I might not know what I'm doing. Just give me directions and I'll learn. Yeah, very cool. It's interesting, though, because this is a good thing for me. You know, the spotlight on me growing up was different.

My dad was, like, the legendary high school football coach. Like, it wasn't from his athletic playing days. It was more that he coached for 20, probably 15 years, 10, 15 years before me and my brother ended up playing for him. So when we were growing up, he had gotten to the school we all played for and was there for a while. And it was like, okay, his kids are coming up through. And then people would show up like they'd want us to lose.

Like they didn't always like him. He was kind of like a really like aggressive like in your face like i care about my kids and everyone else not not me like his players and like everyone else is like we're trying to kill them like that was that's my dad's approach so like everyone on his team loved him yeah everyone like if you were on his team like you loved him. But if you weren't, he wasn't your guy. He wasn't the friendly before the game. No, it was my team is my priority, and everyone else we're trying to kill. So mind you, when we were coming up, that got put onto us, but we loved it. I loved going into the gym in high school and basketball,

and the whole place is cheering overrated and coming at us. I loved that. I loved those moments. It didn't bother me. But now here I am on the other side and I'm raising kids in Charlotte, where if I moved to a different city, it would be a little bit different. But like in Charlotte. Yeah.

And he's got Olsen on the back of his jersey. Three of them, two boys and a girl. Like, and I have very honest conversations with them. Like, you know me, I don't really like beat around the whole bush here. And like, I said, guys, there's going to be people who show up at your games your entire life. Some people are going to be there to just watch you. But there's going to be a lot of people that are there,

and they hope you strike out. And they hope you miss every shot. And they hope you throw an interception. And when those moments do come, you have to be mentally tough enough to not say, oh my God, I just embarrassed myself in front of all these people. These people mean nothing. You need to give your own identity, your own confidence, your family's approval. If you come to grips with that, it'll be a lot easier going through high school because it ain't going to end. It's just going to get worse when you get older. You're speaking to everybody right now that's real like anyone that's tuned to the power

of social media knows that the opinions of others oh my god can be one of the greatest constrictors to one's potential because all of the noise especially with young kids cam if you know last question for both you guys here is if you if we knew what you knew as a parent, OK, your your mom sounds incredible. It sounds like your dad gave you many gifts as well. If you could speak right to the parent right now, based on your life experiences, your high performance that you've experienced, what would you want the parent to know? I think the main things I would say is be present. I remember every time my parents were at a sporting event, you know, anything. Didn't have to be I was playing, they were just there. And then I would just say the game's not going to change and the game's not going to come right to a middle schooler. I think sometimes we get so involved in, you know,

hey, we need to sign up for this extra instructional so we can go to the travel ball. And it's like, let them be kids. A lot of people who go to the NFL probably didn't even play football until like their junior or senior year of high school. Sometimes I think we throw so much on and we expect so much. It's just let your kid be a kid. Yeah, I love that.

And be present with them. Do you support one sport, like invest in one sport or multiple sports? Multiple sports. Yeah. I play football and basketball. Oh, my God. Can you imagine guarding him on a basketball court? Could you imagine?

Holy shit. I play against some monsters, too. You might block out the sun, though. Oh, my God. For real. You might block out the sun. Can you imagine? Yeah.. I played against some monsters, too. You might block out the sun, though. Oh, my God. For real. You might block out the sun. Could you imagine? Yeah.

All right, for you, speak right to the parent. If they knew what you knew, what would you want them to do or know better? Listen, as you know from a lot of our work, I don't pretend to have all the answers. That's a big reason why I love talking to other people about the youth sports journey and parenting and coaching and I coach all my kids sports I do one season with each kid as a sport so in the winter I do my girl my daughter's basketball team in the fall I coach my kids school football team and then in the in the spring I do my other son's baseball team so I'm I'm very involved I'm hands-on i run the practices i run the teams but i have to even remind myself sometimes like to take a step back and just say like okay let's reorganize our approach here is this about development is this about lessons that go well

beyond fielding a ground ball lefty layup three-step drop how to set an edge as an end like are we teaching these kids skills that seventh and eighth graders can learn to be good football players that's important yes that's my job that's right but i i also feel like it's important that we teach them like what does it mean to be reliable and to deal with adversity and to be dependable and get coached and be held accountable and have teammates hold each other accountable and like built that to me is every bit as much as my job as a parent and as a youth coach as it is just teaching the skills of the sport as much as teaching all that comes with it. Because for most of these kids, the lessons they learned

on my middle school football team, yes, do I want my nine techniques to set a hard edge? Yes. Do we work our ass off on tackling the outside hip? Yes. Do we work our ass off on tackling the outside hip? Yes. But 99% of these kids, their greatest high school, their greatest football moments are going to be in high school. And that's amazing. But then they got to live 80 years after that. Can they leave our program? Can they leave one of our teams with something? And that's something I still wrestle with. And that's still the balance that I still have to make sure I check myself on

saying like, Hey, if it's not about the development and the growth of these kids, but you just teach them about the sport, like you're failing them. It has to be all of it. One without the other, you shouldn't be the coach. I love it. And I, and to wrap it up, I would add that for me, it's the importance of helping young people know how they fit. It's not all about you, son or daughter. You are part of an ecosystem, and your relationships with yourself

and your relationship with other people is paramount. And sport is really about the relationship. You hold with yourself with failure, successes, mistakes, and when it goes well, and how you relate and connect with other people. The second thing I'm going to pull on the be present. If our parents are really present with us, we learn what it feels like to be connected and to be present. And it's a regulation thing. Like I know that I'm okay because somebody else is giving me the most precious thing, which is their attention, their time. So, all right. Epic, Cam, Greg, it's so good to spend

this time with you guys. It's so good. Yes. Awesome. Appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Now it's time for Insights brought to you by Microsoft Copilot. Hey, Copilot, summarize the key takeaways from today's conversation. Sure, Mike. Winning the Super Bowl isn't just about talent. It's about adaptability and mental agility under extreme pressure. The best teams and athletes succeed by training for adversity, filtering out distractions, and trusting their preparation when the stakes are highest.

Whether on the field, in the broadcast booth, or in life, success comes down to psychological flexibility, confidence built through preparation, and the ability to stay present in the moment. So I want to say thanks for tuning in. Join the conversation. Leave a comment so we can hear from you. And be sure to subscribe to Finding Mastery because the real game is the game inside the games.

And be sure to join us tomorrow where Brandon Marshall and I will uncover the Super Bowl's biggest pressure cooker. See you tomorrow. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show,

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