Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - High-Stakes Performance and Leadership Aboard an Active US Aircraft Carrier | Captain Daryle D. Cardone & Captain Patrick Corrigan

Episode Date: July 17, 2024

Today, we have a really special episode that takes us to the heart of high-stakes performance and leadership. Our Finding Mastery team recently had the incredible privilege of embarking on a unique mission: we flew to Japan and then took a cargo plane out to the USS Ronald Reagan, a nuclear-powered Nimitz-class aircraft carrier currently patrolling the volatile waters of the South China Sea.Imagine being one of nearly 6,000 sailors and pilots on board, operating in an environment where tensions are high, and combat could become a reality at any moment. How do you maintain a state of constant readiness and cohesion?To address this challenge, our team – including Olympic mindset coaches Dr. Nicole Davis and Kaya Turski, UFC champion Vitor Belfort, and world-renowned climber Tommy Caldwell – conducted 12 intensive workshops. We worked with everyone from the Carrier Strike Group leadership to the pilots to the crew managing the nuclear reactors, focusing on resilience, adversity management, and high-performance mindset training.One of the many highlights of this extraordinary experience was sitting down with Captain Daryle Cardone and Captain Patrick Corrigan – the Commanding Officer and the Commander of the Air Group (CAG) respectively. Together, they represent over 50 years of military experience and leadership at the highest level.In our conversation, we explore their unique approaches to leadership in one of the most consequential environments imaginable. What may surprise you is that their command style isn't rooted in rigid military doctrine, but in something far more empathetic and human-centered.We dig into how they foster resilience, handle prolonged separation from family, and create an environment where every crew member can thrive under immense pressure. Their insights on mentorship, personal growth, and maintaining sustained high performance are not just applicable to military operations, but to any high-stakes environment.This episode offers a rare glimpse into leadership at sea and the mastery required to command a floating city of 6,000 souls. Whether you're leading a team, facing personal challenges, or simply interested in human performance, the lessons from Captain Cardone and Captain Corrigan are both profound and practical.***The views expressed herein are solely those of the persons expressing them and do not represent the views of the United States, Department of Defense, or Department of the Navy._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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performance and leadership. Our Finding Mastery team recently had the incredible privilege of embarking on a unique mission. We flew to Japan and then took a cargo plane out to the USS Ronald Reagan, a nuclear-powered Nimitz-class aircraft carrier that's currently patrolling the volatile waters of the South China Sea. Imagine being one of nearly 6,000 sailors and pilots on board, operating in an environment where tensions are high. Combat could become a reality at any moment. How do you maintain a state of constant readiness and team cohesion?

To address this challenge, our team at Finding Mastery, including Olympic mindset coaches Dr. Nicole Davis and Kaya Tursky, UFC champion Vitor Belfort, and world-renowned climber Tommy Caldwell conducted 12 intensive workshops. We worked with everyone on the ship from the carrier strike group leadership to the pilots to the team managing the nuclear reactors. We're focusing on resilience and being agile and adversity management and high performance mindset training. One of the many highlights of this extraordinary experience for us was sitting down with Captain Daryl Cardone and Captain Patrick Corrigan, the commanding officer and the commander of the air group, one is the CAG. Together, they represent over 50 years of military experience and leadership at the

highest level. In this conversation, we explore their unique approaches to leadership in one of the most consequential environments that we can imagine. And what may surprise you is that their command style isn't rooted in a rigid military doctrine, but rather something far more empathetic and human-centered. We dig into how they foster resilience, handle prolonged separation from family members, and create an environment for crew members

to be able to thrive under immense pressure. Their insights on mentorship, personal growth, and maintaining sustained high performance are not just applicable to military operations, but to any high-stakes, high-pressure environment. This episode offers a rare glimpse into leadership at sea and the mastery required to command a floating city of 6,000 souls. Whether you're leading a team, facing personal challenges yourself, or simply interested

in human performance, the lessons from Captain Cardone and Captain Corrigan are both profound and practical. So with that, let's dive right into this captivating discussion on leadership, resilience, and the human spirit. Recorded aboard the USS Ronald Reagan. Gentlemen, this is an absolute honor for me to sit with you, to learn with you. And we're sitting on the USS Ronald Reagan as we speak. And I'm like a kid in a candy store here. And so, Captain Cardone, thank you for inviting me here to be able to learn, to understand, and to work with some very important people on the ship so i really

appreciate your invitation yeah it is it is our honor so glad you're here yeah it's really cool yeah what an experience and you know we we just had the chance you gave me a treat last night that was unbelievable it's something that i never thought i would be able to do. And so it was a night flight ops. And so to be to be at night with the stars, like in in full glory with planes, 100 and some million dollar planes ripping up and down the jetway, you know, like, okay, so we'll get into the excitement. Yeah, I'm already showing my hand here. Okay. But so let's start with the ship and let's start with how it sits in the larger strike force. No strike group. Strike group. And so the basic question is how many people are on the ship? So the USS Ronald Reagan has about 5000 sailors in Barks right now, about 3500 of those are members of the ship's crew.

And then we've taken on another 1,500, most of which are from Ernie's Air Wing, but we've also got a number of other embarked staff and folks along with us who are from other ships for training. Okay. And how many, Captain Corrigan, how many pilots are here? Pilots? We have 88 pilots, but there's more than just the pilots out here. So you guys look at the aircrews and the folks that are doing other missions over there in the back or the side of the airplane.

So in total, about 150 aircrew. And you can tell them because they're wearing blue or brown leather boots. Aviators do wear brown leather boots. This is my shorthand, right? So brown leather boots. We got an aviator. Flight suit. You have an aviator. Yeah, flight suit.

Okay. All right. So can we start with your description of your job? Sure. I'm CAG. I'm the commander of the Cary Air Wing 5 is what my official title is, but affectionately known as CAG. It's a throwback to the olden days where we had air groups vice air wings.

So the commander of the air group is CAG. It sounds better than CAW. CAW. It's a throwback to the olden days where we had air groups, vice air wings. So the commander of the air group is CAG. It sounds better than CAW. So CAG sounds a little better. That's who I am. I'm CAG. And with that comes eight squadrons and an attachment on board of various different airplanes and helicopters. Functionally, what is it that you do on a regular basis? So I'm making sure that we have such a myriad of different types of aircraft and specialties that my job is to make sure that they're working together to achieve the goal of the carrier strike group. Okay. And then when people say, when people describe what you do to me, they say, oh, he owns the carriers. I'm sorry. He owns the carrier. He owns the planes. What does it mean to own the planes? I wouldn the carrier. I'm going to get to that in a minute. He owns the planes.

What does it mean to own the planes? I wouldn't say that I own the airplanes, but it's a privilege to have them at my, to command them. But to own them means that, you know, my job is to make sure, like I said, just to make sure that they're trained and ready to do their mission. So, yeah, I know that came out too well. No, that's clear. Okay. And so, Captain Cardone, when you describe your role on the ship how do you describe it to somebody who like doesn't really understand how this wing of the navy works so i am i am a mix of mayor orchestral conductor with title 10 authority direction and control over the sailors

embarked in the ship wait say that say that again. You're mayor? Well, I mean, the aircraft carrier is sort of a floating city. Oh, that's interesting. As you think about it, we've got two nuclear reactors aboard, an airport, a hospital, a post office, a jail, and our own Starbucks. And the post office comes with its own zip code. So in every sense, we are a floating city. At the same time, I've got 20 departments to oversee,

and that very much functions. You know, I studied music in school, and that, you know, in that role, I function very much like the conductor of the orchestra, trying to synchronize and vary the tone and tempo of what's going on. Yet at the same time, we are very much in the military and I have through my title 10 responsibilities in the United States code authority, direction, and control over how the ship, what does title 10 mean title 10 of the United States code it's federal federal law.

What does that mean? I don't know what that means. It's the portion of the United States Code that the Congress has passed that has laid out the responsibilities of the commanding officer of any naval warship. I see. And it is my responsibility through Title 10 of the U.S. Code, as well as U.S. Navy regulations, to maintain this vessel in a state of maximum effectiveness. Ooh, that sounds like a big job. So you've got 20 divisions that report to departments that do report to you. So does that mean you have 20 direct reports?

Yes. Okay. And so that's a big team. It is. They've got, they've got varying specialty, right? Some, some are aviators, some are, you know, career ground officers and either expertise in ordnance or the various combat systems that we've got on here, the missile systems, the radars, you know, supply and logistics. It could be communications

or, you know, we've got lawyers, doctors, and psychologists. It's a large and diverse team. Okay. And structurally, how do they report up to you? Are your meetings once a week, once a day, once a month? How do you get the whole team together? The larger departments, it is a continuing conversation throughout the day. So we will probably have five to six touch points to ensure that we're ready to launch Ernie's team into the air. Any challenges we run into throughout the day and then at the end of the day, what we need to do to get ready for tomorrow. On the longest end of that, it's probably once a week. Okay. And what is the overall general mission of the USS Ronald Reagan?

I have two tasks on here, and it's to launch and recover aircraft. And I also serve as the flagship for our carrier strike group commander to be able to provide command and control or authority and direction guidance to the force. And then so the carrier sits in as one of how many other vessels? It varies from time to time. time, you know, each strike group composition is different. And being that we're forward deployed here in the Indo Pacific, and we are very close to our home port, our composition is a little more fluid than others, because there's much less transit to where we conduct our mission. But we have we have a handful of escorts with us.

Yeah, so it's one of many. And that's called the strike group. It is. Okay. And then and then that is basically the the basic fighting unit of the Blue Water Navy. Right. We we organize and train around the functions and tasks of that, you know, handful of ships as an element and then use those forces to carry out the missions of folks like Ernie who have a functional expertise in a given area, whether that is maritime warfare, air warfare, strike warfare, as the case may be. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions.

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And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding finding mastery your history in music and you seeing yourself as a mayor and an orchestrator is that the word you used orchestrator conductor you said conductor for an orchestra i imagine that's a unique combination i imagine that that's your unique style and approach mayor and conductor so i was thinking of it more like a finely tuned watch. Like there's lots of different syncopations that need to happen for the thing to work well and on time.

What I've observed over the last handful of days is that this is management of people at the highest order. Like, I don't know, it's kind of looks chaotic, but everyone knows what they're doing and come to learn that the age group, the average age group is somewhere between 18 and 26. Is that, do I have that right? You do. Working on one of the more dangerous work environments, probably for humans. Is that correct? Okay. And so as a conductor, you're trying to get the whole thing to move in harmony. right the New York Philharmonic can play through you know a piece of music without that conductor waving their arms in the beginning the real value in there for the person on the podium is to recognize when someone in that group is giving you their best art or or to use your that you know when you step on that podium with a with clarity of vision of what right looks like of what excellence looks like and then you have those moments where it's it's not audible

but you go that that's what we're looking for and when there's that little moment in there where you have that connection you know it encourages each person on the team to bring that out again so it isn't it isn't me waving my arms around so that the watch ticks the right way i view my role as you know when when we have trained right and the watch is ticking the way it's supposed to to be the person who finds the right focal point. You know, when we're off a little bit, we want to stop, is to provide that feedback or guidance, not criticism, but feedback or guidance to be able to tighten up that the next time. What an eloquent philosophy for leadership.

Yeah. And so you're trying to catch people doing well, doing right. All day. That is your primary job. And, you know, like maybe there's a little bit of coaching there besides mayor and conductor. I mean, it is. Right. You know, I really think my job is to know what this team is supposed to look like. How do you do that?

It's a lot of internal work. Okay. I mean, you know, I want to unpack that. Yeah, it is. It is a lot of time with a pen to sit down and say, you know, what, when done well, can I articulate what this looks like? Can I do it verbally? Can I coach someone along who's not quite seeing what I'm seeing? You'll have the opportunity to do a couple evolutions with us, and I'll try and walk you through that.

But as we prepare, what I'm trying to do in our crew briefs with a crew that's so large is to give them just a couple important focal points and really to work them through how to think through this problem in the same way I am. I mean, my main goal is excellence in silence. That the team we have trained so hard, that the team has done enough reps and sets that they see this challenge in the same way that I would, and then they turn around and tell me their intent for how to solve it. It is not me on the bridge knife-handing how to make the watch take the right way. I asked you last night about your approach for leadership,

and you said guidance and direction. And is that what you're just describing now? It is. But first you use your imagination to have a sense of what excellence looks and i'm going to add what feels i it it is it is kinesthetic as well you know i had a day in music school where you know i was out with my band the night before did not prepare for class came in in the morning and out of the blue that I had no picture in my head what it was supposed to sound like when I started waving my arms

and I could look down and read the score as well as anyone else and and and and fake the gestures but if you weren't providing your best art or you weren't doing what you were supposed to do, there was a zero percent chance I was going to recognize it. So you didn't know what you were working toward. I had no expectation. Going through the motions. Yeah. Before the evolution started. So to both of you, right, when you are putting forth your best art and I don't recognize it, you come around the corner next time a little more disengaged.

And when you don't prepare and I don't correct you or notice and provide that guidance or feedback, you're more likely to come in unprepared the next time and feel like you're going to get away from it. So you don't coach the negative. You don't come from a critique from a, that's not right. That's not okay. Don't ever do that again. You come. It's, it's, hey, Mike, why don't we try this again? And when we do, I'd like you to listen a little more closely to Ernie.

Sync with Ernie. Ernie's got the lead for these next five minutes and we're all going to synchronize to the pace and the cadence that Ernie sets. And then Ernie, when you reach this part, you know, we're going to very smoothly pass what we're doing to Mike. Oh, there you go. Right. And it gives everybody kind of a... So when did you feel, or what was what was the okay let me frame it this way you are bringing your authentic self now that word can get beaten up in a lot of different ways and

it can sound weird even in my head when i say authentic like what does that mean but you are bringing your full self your style your authentic style of leadership forward. And I can't imagine in this environment that you say, you know, I'm kind of like a conductor. I'm kind of like, I'm a little bit of a musician here and I'm going to play jazz with my, I can imagine that this kind of stoic, historic approach to military leadership going, what? Now I'm making this story up from movies

more than anything else. But there's this barrier sometimes, this thing that keeps us tight, like we're supposed to be something according to how they want us to be. And we're afraid to break the mold to be our full self. So do you recognize what I'm saying, that there was a moment of tension? Can you maybe share a story when you to illustrate this point in your life? Well, I, this is, this has been my experience since before day one, with with the Navy, you know, when when I called the recruiting office, hold on, I got to interrupt you. I'm so sorry. What is happening above us right now? I'm looking at you because it sounds like some engines are rearing.

The whole ship is trembling right now. So what you just heard is the first airplane going off for our Vent 2 launch right now. So that was probably our tanker getting airborne as the first of the many airplanes about to go off the front end. I mean, it is like the most kinetic, like powerful, you know, expression of a force that you can, I mean, it shakes the whole ship. And how big is the ship? It's 1,092 feet long, 257 feet wide. I believe it's the expert.

If you, if you stood the USS Ronald Reagan up on her stern, she'd be slightly shorter than the empire state building. Oh my goodness. That's a great visual. Yeah. Very cool. And so how many, how often are, are we going to hear the, the planes?

Right now we're, we're launching about every hour and a half. We have a cycle that starts in land. So what we'll do is we'll launch off 10 to 10 or 11 airplanes. Yeah. Since the runway is the, where we take off is where we land. So we'll launch all the airplanes and then immediately after that, we'll start recovering another 10 or 11 aircraft. And then the pilots will park those airplanes and hand them over to the maintainers. They'll gas them up, turn them around and then another 10 or 11 pilots and air crew will get into those jets and we'll do it all over again, another hour and a half. So while it's about 1230 right now,

in about an hour and a half, we'll do it all over again. We'll do that for 12 hours a day. So we're going to, we're going to feel the room shake here. And you're going to feel the next 15 minutes. Okay, good. All right, cool. All right. So I'm interrupting what I think is like gold. Sorry. Sorry. Just okay. So go back to, go back to where you were. So I very quickly, growing up, there were only two things that I wanted to do in life. One was, was be the lead guitarist in a rock band. And if I couldn't do that, I wanted to be in the FBI or the secret service. I had, you know, many uncles who were of the World War Two generation, my father served in Korea. So there was there were plenty of folks with military experience

in my family, but they didn't talk about it a lot. And though I didn't really think about that much as an option, you know, I played sports until I found music, more specifically, until I found Eddie Van Halen. And then from then on, the guitar was my thing. I studied that throughout school. But as I got into graduate school, decided that wasn't the path that I was going to take. Because quite honestly, I saw many people who were way more talented than me who were, you know, struggling in one form or another. And at that point, I saw many people who were way more talented than me who were, you know, struggling in one form or another. And at that point, I thought I would pivot to the FBI or the Secret Service because I love problem solving. And in 93, there was a government hiring freeze as I was finishing school.

And they said, you know, we'd love to have you on our team, but we're not hiring anybody right now. When I said, what is the next best thing that I can do? They said, to get a commission in the military. I said, which service? They said, doesn't matter. We're looking for leaders. And all of a sudden, the conversations that I had heard around the table in my family started coming back.

And so I called the Navy recruiting office in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I called up. I said, good morning. My name is Daryl Cardone. I'd like to apply for officer candidate school. And they said, hey, that's fantastic, Daryl. We need people right now. What did you study?

And I said, music. And he said, we don't need any more band majors and hung up on me. And I had the look on my face that you do right now i was like well that's not what the brochure said yeah right and you know at the same time i thought philadelphia's got to be a big office i'm going to wait five minutes call back and see if i get somebody else oh wait hold on that we're talking about that. Yeah. That is probably the crown jewel of how you have led to the position that you're in. How do you just in a word, what is that that you're describing right now? Grit. It is passion, perseverance for long term goal.

Amen. So you had that at a young age, but it's like you didn't take no for an answer. So you're going to persevere independent of what the experience was. And how did you learn that? Probably from my dad. It was just, it was a work ethic. I certainly learned a bunch of it through sports.

You know, you find a lot of adversity and you continue through that. Certainly, as I started to study music, there was a passion and a discipline that came from that and i just thought if this path doesn't work i'm going to find another that will okay or anyway i mean here we are two big afterburner engines going right now okay very cool oh god what an environment for a podcast it's the sound of freedom that is pretty cool it's the sound of. It's the sound of freedom. It's pretty cool.

It's the sound of freedom. It's the sound of freedom. That is awesome. Does it get old? No. Never. It really doesn't? No.

Like every 15 minutes or whatever the, like, huh. It's the best part of the job. Flying off the aircraft carrier. Yeah. And you're both pilots? Aviators. Aviators. Ernie's a pilot.

I'm an naval flight officer. Oh. Subtle distinction. It is. Tell me're both pilots. Aviators. Aviators. Ernie's a pilot. I'm an Eagle flight officer. Oh. Subtle distinction. It is. Tell me what that means. So being a pilot, I'm the one that's up front controlling the aircraft itself. Correct. Or Bone being an NFO. He grew up in the Hawkeye. So he was in the command and control aircraft, controlling guys like me that were flying around. Sensors, radios, see what's around us and tell others. And the function of the airplane I was in was to bring order from chaos.

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You were running some tests last night. I don't know a better way to describe it. And there was something that didn't quite go to the way you had hoped it went. And I said, so how will you work with that? Do you remember what you said to me? So, yeah, so we, uh, we uh we're doing coe which is the combat operations efficiency so we're uh bone and i our two teams are working together to prove that we can operate in an environment that's really demanding right so we want to be able to operate anywhere on the globe um away from land completely independent so in trying to do that we have to make sure that we're not utilizing the runways ashore so we have one of our young kids last uh

yesterday afternoon had a had a rough day wasn't't able to land or aircraft rescue wasn't his skill. It was just actually the runway itself wasn't available for him to land. So we sent him up to the tanker to go get some gas, wasn't able to do it. So we sent him back to Japan to go land and come back tomorrow. He's coming back probably tomorrow. But you asked me, like, how am I going to deal with that? Right. And we're all type A personalities and we all want. We all strive to be the best. And I don't have to talk to that kid about it because he already knows. He's probably feeling terrible right now. I haven't

spoken to him because he's ashore in Japan and his squadron is taking care of him. But I'm sure that kid is beating himself up himself and knows what he did wrong. When he comes back, he'll leave a better pilot for it. Yeah. That insight struck me because your reflexive response was, no, I don't need to hammer. I don't need to critique. I don't need to give him a scolding. I don't need to say, what were you thinking? Because I have high trust that his care for attention to detail is honest and he knows that there was a missed opportunity. So then how will you support him and challenge him when it's a very public mistake? When he gets back, just tell him you did a good job, pat him on the back and get him back in the game. But he didn't do a good job. Yeah, but he knows that. But he needs the positive reinforcement.

You got to bring him back into the circle. So you, you'll pat him on the back, say good job. What was the good job? Maybe it's a better way of saying is I'll let him know that I've been there. And a lot of us have, just because you feel bad right now, the way it happened yesterday, that's normal. So you'll humanize the experience. Sure. And you'll, you'll extend your hand to pull him back in because I know exactly the feeling you're, you're talking about where it's like, man, what are they thinking of me? Like, I really let some people down and I feel awkward. Like, how is he supposed to come back in? And I, okay. I want to tell the story it was like it was an early

experience in professional hockey for me and uh one of the athletes it was third period it was a playoff game and no second period the end of second period playoff game tight game zero zero and six seconds before the period ends, the goalkeeper made a mistake. And he made a mistake. But really, it was set up three moves before when somebody made a mistake earlier. And everybody knew that it was the first mistake that cost the goalie to be able to let one by. And that kid went into the locker room and trashed the room, made a huge scene. I thought, what is he doing? Like what, what really, what is that? He wanted everybody to know that he's not okay with it so that nobody else would pile on him. It was a self-esteem saving mechanism is what he did.

And so when I hear the brilliance of your suggestion, you're going to reach out to him, pull him back in. I've been there. You're all right. We all make mistakes. I would ask, what'd you learn? What was that like for you? What do you think the corrections will be next time? How can I help you work through this correction now?

That's how I would do it. And then, but does that seem organic or does that seem foreign? I would say what what i think is great about ernie's approach to that isn't isn't necessarily that you know it's it's not necessarily a physical or mechanical thing that you're crazy i heard that yeah right yeah it's it's what what i think the young man did incredibly well was realized when it's time to say you know was the decision making of that to say, we're going to try this again tomorrow. Right. So it, so it wasn't, you know, and what I think Ernie does really well in that regard is to have the empathy in there to say, did you just what he said?

That was good. That was J-O buddies making McCall sign out of all this, but that's it. Oh, you might get a call sign. But we'll see. The call signs are awesome. That part of culture is really attractive to me. It's like an inside joke. There's some sort of specialness about it.

And you can't, if I have it correctly, you can't give yourself a call sign. Somebody else has to give it to you. Nobody's going to walk in and say. The group gives it to you. Yeah, the group gives it. And so there's a consensus. They have to agree that that's the one that's going to stick. And in locker rooms, it's usually, it's not as formal as what you guys get to do.

Meaning your call sign is on a plane, right? Like it's not that formal and you wear it. It's like the one that as soon as like someone says, yours is bone, right? As soon as someone says bone and then they see your face light up, like you don't like it. Everyone. Same thing in our thing in our community. So how did you get yours? I showed up to my squadron. It's actually not that great of a story. I showed up to do my

JO squadron with a buddy of mine who was tall and thin, and we became a pair. So we actually started out as Ren and Stimpy, and then it came down to Bert burt ernie lenny uh lenny and squeaky or uh ren and stimpy and i became uh ernie and he became bert bert's now catfish but uh i've it stuck with me for 25 years now that's awesome that is really so last last night on the flight deck you had said something like i think one of the questions from one of the athletes was you know what's it like or something you said oh i'm kind of short and stocky i'm built for it or something like along those lines so you've embraced you know oh yeah the stature the call name yeah right i mean i'm quite happy with my call sign i have no problems with it it's it's it's who i am at this point in my life and yeah it's just most most even my family

calls me ernie sometimes you know what i I like about it, about this practice, this culture invitation, if you will, to be part of something is that sometimes people can see us easier and better than we can see ourselves. I think it takes a lot of internal work to really know yourself. And this is the collective saying, we see something about you and we're going to see what burns a little bit. But it's true. Like that fits your stature. Sure. Especially if you're standing next to a bird. Yep.

Right? Yeah. And so yours is Bone. Yeah. Do you have a story here that you can share? When I got to my first squadron, one of the leaders there was a big fan of the movie Goodfellas. And there was a guy in the movie named Frankie Carbone who ends up getting hung in the meat locker from a hook. And, you know, as they saw my name on the orders as a, as a pending in,

you know, inbound officer called me Carbone way more than they called me Cardone. And that ended up getting shortened. Totally got it. So it just kind of fit. Yeah. Okay. So what keeps you guys up at night? You know, I'll say I generally sleep well.

We have a very talented, confident, capable team. The thing I am sensitive to is the sailor I haven't reached yet who is struggling, that I have the ability to help but I, but I, you know, they haven't, it hasn't identified itself yet. And is that sensitivity to reaching that one or those many's? Is that coming from, use the word earlier describing Ernie about empathy is it coming from a felt sense or is it more like it's just not right we need to find a way is it more cognitive or is it more empathetic I think the team performs best when everyone feels connected and included so you're merging both of them oh you're nodding your head Ernie I don't sit I 100% agree with that yes I

think that they they perform better when they feel included and they know what's going on. And that is actually your leadership style at the moment of a mistake. A public mistake is to include. Yes. Okay. And so can you say it again? Something is better when people are included. How did you say it?

The team performs better when everyone feels connected and included. And then how do you go about, let's just think about your direct reports, your first teammates, if you will. How do you go about that with that team, let alone the 3,000 or 4,900 and whatever others? Number one, you take an interest. I want to know you. What makes you tick? why you're here, not just the function you're going to perform on the team for the ship or for me. And then to know the why behind your service and what lights your inner fire and then and then to find out you know how i can help stoke that so you go through this via conversation yeah like off script hallways lunches it's not a formal

practice that you you get to know each other it's it's more organic if you will yes and then why why that for you why where did that principle for both of you, what's the origin story of why you're going to anchor your leadership to inclusion and pulling the best and caring for people? For me, I'm sorry, one more thought. It's written right now in the books to do that, but I don't believe that that came. For me, it's you know like Ernie said you get who you get right there's the the artist in me has has that kind of empathy creativity feel and you know for me that when we're transparent when we're open honest and authentic with each other we then co-create the path that is going to get the team to the highest level

of performance that we can. And I would add like that's how I would want to be treated. And I think that, you know, that I think that's where it comes from. I mean, if I, maybe I just feel that that's just normal for me, but that's how Bono and I got to our positions. It's just, you know, that's how you, if you want to get the most out of people, you treat them like people. You get to know them.

I'm really inspired by it. Like, really inspired. Because it doesn't feel, like I was saying, like a knowledge script that you're coming from. It feels warm. It feels honest. I'm seeing the courage that you have to bring yourself forward

in your unique styles to do it. I think I'm feeling right now what modern leadership is. And I would not have guessed that before I came here. I'll throw that back. Why would you say more? Where does that come from? It's a media hangover, maybe, of what I've grown up looking at the military leader, which is stoic, which is is but we're a we're

a microcosm of america i mean we have folks from every corner inch of the united states so we're no different than america is yeah there's this there's this idea i have that you go through a formal structured training that that shows you how to do it the Navy way and it's like this washing of other thoughts to do it this way our way and it is right for the duty of the of the position and and the safety of the United States so it's this it's this idea I have and it's uninformed and when I'm answering it like the people I know like I know more operators than I know people in position that you are. And so there's some informing there.

And this like the special operators, they're different now. Like they've got a different way about them. So I think it's a media bias that I've learned it from. No other way. I don't think it's either or, though. OK. bias that I've learned it from no other way. I don't think it's either or though. Okay. So I, you know, I think there's some nuance between the getting the mission done element of that, which I do think at times we default to our training.

We do get very stoic about what we've got control over and what we don't. But when it comes to the connection and inclusion, you know, there's, there's a lot more room for that, for that creativity to, to figure out the path. Creativity to figure out the path. And what is the path? To bring them into the fold and help get them aligned so that they can bring forth their best art.

It's back to the piece of what we were talking about. That to me is a little bit, you know, how i view the conductor role and and also through it like you i feel like the bias you brought out here is the fact that we're homogenous we're all the same and i and i i do get that i do feel that people think that about the military that we're all these robots and something but we're not like i said we're and i want that different types of thought um brought into the organization because you're not going to grow unless you're getting different ideas in here. It's it's how we innovate, right?

There's a nod to the path past that says we understand how, you know, through circumstance or technology, how we got to where we are. But the way you advance the art of warfighting is through, you know, as you're, as we're saying, through some of this connection, through this inclusiveness and really the art of asking questions to say, you know, what, what would it look like if the, you know, if this whole team were connected and aligned and given it all they got, and then what is my role helping helping make that happen that framework is really interesting what would it look like what would excellence look like what would it look like if we were all connected and then for each person to

say well what is my how do i contribute to that so you have to use your imagination first and then you back in the role the style the objective the way that you would participate in it. Organizations are dislarged. It's difficult to make sure that the lowest people feel connected to the bigger mission. It is. Yeah. I think that that would be an incredible challenge. Yeah. Even, I mean, most teams are like 1 to 12, yours is 20.

And then one of your direct reports, do they have a team of 12 to 20? Yes. And then it keeps going, right? So it is really one to 20. Maybe somebody has a group of 50. Could that happen? Not of direct reports. Not of direct. Yeah. So it really is like this cascading. It's one to two handfuls of people at a time is the way that i would think about it i i just want to go back i'm really it's refreshing it's inspiring it is

i'm so grateful to hear that this is in the military operation from a leadership command philosophy i and again i know it was a little triggering saying this is not what I thought I was going to walk into. Even the laugh is awesome. Okay, so you're trying to get this whole ship to work well together. And you were talking earlier about a playbook and this idea that one person's not bigger than the playbook. There's a playbook.

How do you account for what we're trying to square right now is you want to include people and you had some artistry in how you're talking about it, like lining people up to bring their best self forward. But how do you run a playbook and account for the individual nature of the 5 5000 so i i think you you honor the creativity where it aligns with a larger effort and to say you you you have to put bounds on that just just like you know if if you went to see the new york philharmonic and the percussionist was the one guy in the back just clanging the cymbals whenever they felt like it, it would stick out. And the conversation would become, you know, love your passion. Let's have this moment where I give you the nod and then you go for it. Got it. okay right so again there's your style yes right so you wouldn't say what are you doing right there's no chance that that sounds good to anybody you don't go there i try not to i what do you do when you're tired well that's

that's where i was going with that right like because i'm not i'm not my best when i'm tired so like what 100 it is uh when when i am tired worn out you know no one's at at their best at that point but my aspiration which i think comes through 85 90 percent of the time is that and you know i find that when when i'm not my best i probably get grace% of the time is that. And, you know, I find that when, when I'm not my best, I probably get grace because of the, because of the other nine times out of 10. You've invested many deposits with some consistency. Yeah. Okay. How do you both work with fatigue?

This is a highly kinetic, intense. I, you can't do it alone. If you're tired, you're worn out, you got to lean on other folks to help you out when you're tired and stuff like that. There's going to be days that you're going to have good days and you're going to have days where you're dragging. You're going to have to lean on other folks to help you out. So no one does it alone is a first principle of mine. And that sounds like you would be like, yeah, that sounds right. Absolutely. And so you rely on other people. Does that,

do you do that? Is it pronounced when you're tired? Like, Hey, I'm going to need, I'm running a little low. I bet you, if you ask the people that, uh, that work for me, that they can tell on my face when I'm tired. They can. Okay. So, so you don't need to say it. They're paying attention. Yeah. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised me the most is how much it actually helps regulate temperature. I tend to run warm at night and these sheets have helped me sleep

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the way you prepare for it matters. If you're looking for high-quality personal care products that elevate your routine without complicating it, I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash findingmastery and use the code findingmastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash finding mastery. What do you do to buffer that fatigue in this type of intense environment? Are there set of practices or principles that you work from that you're doing your best to stay highly engaged and highly energized on a regular basis? I have a mindfulness practice that really the biggest thing it does for me is not expend energy in areas I don't intend to.

So it helps me filter out everything except the thing that deserves my full attention right now. And where did that practice come from? You know, I think the science has been around for quite some time. You know, once I finally tried it and felt the state of calm that comes from that, the relaxation in my breathing, I just inherently felt the positive benefits of it and thought, I need more of this. And is it really consistent, approach or is it something like where are you on your journey right now? It's it is not as consistent as I'd like it to be. Yeah. Most of the time it's just due to the demands of the job that I get pulled away but but I I intentionally carve out time to. Yeah so it's important

to get better. Yeah, so it's important to you. So you're working for it. It's not the consistency you'd like. How do you square that little tension? Where I think that that's really common. And we could take mindfulness and put in another word, you know, like a lot of different things that we'd like a little bit better at,

but we're not disciplined in the way that we're making it happen. So how do you square that with yourself? Grace, tell me more. I understand, I think as well as anyone that demands on me. And I realize that at times there are other people in other situations that need me more. And the same part of me that chose to serve chooses in the moment to serve others. But I realized at the end of the day that I to serve, chooses in the moment to serve others. But I realized at the end of the day that I also need to invest in myself.

Knowing you the way I know you, I think you're actually practicing mindfulness more than you might imagine. So the formal structure of sitting or standing or laying down and following one breath or whatever the practice might be, it's a clear example of a block of training if you will to make it more pedestrian but when i'm with you i feel like you are really

here that you are focusing in this moment i don't get any judgment or critique from you i get a full absorption in the present moment exploring learning open full presence that's mindfulness training so you might be doing it 10 hours a day i don't know i mean it's not it's possible that's kind of what the that's a huge relief to hear you say that yeah right yeah so you could go into a meeting yeah and and take like this cleansing kind of breath or whatever. And like to set your mind to say, right, I'm going to go into this meeting and I'm going to bring that part forward. And that really could be a practice for a six minute meeting or 60 minute meeting. Yeah. So that, that's a way to think about integration as well.

I love that. Yeah, it's good. And I think it's also nice. Just another way, John Cabot Zinn has been a deep mentor of mine. And I asked him how his practice is going. And he says, you know, I'm just doing a little bit of breath work before I get out of bed. I'm just meditating for a little bit in bed. And I go, what do you mean? He goes, yeah, I'm already laying down. I'm in a relatively calm state.

And so I just do a quick little meditation. And so it's kind of like, this is my interpretation. So he won that gave me a permission to be like, Oh, right. He's not doing 40 minutes a day or whatever, like, you know, like, even the great Jon Kabat-Zinn and, and I go, Oh, wait, hold on, I could just do a couple breaths. I'm not trying to check a box, and at least it allows me to know, you know, like, oh, there's some consistency here.

And something as simple as this is one of the ones I've been doing lately. Breathe in I am, and then exhale a virtue that I want to live today. So I am here on the exhale. I am loving on the exhale. I am on the exhale strong. So inhale, I am exhale the virtue that I'm working on. And so, and then if I have a little bit more opening, I feel that word, you know, so that's simple. That's like a, just a handful of minutes. I'm

still in bed. I'm not checking emails or doing all the other stuff. It's like a nice little moment for me. Yeah. The present, the presence piece is, is a big one for me too. That, you know, I, I try and be super mindful that, you know, with a crew of 3,500 that, you know, any interaction I have may be the only direct interaction that one junior sailor may have with me throughout the tour and they deserve all of me in that, you know, in that moment, not me worrying about being mad about what happened five

minutes ago or thinking about what's going to happen five minutes from now. And, and, you know, it is in those, those exchanges where I think the feeling of gratitude, you know, not, not gratitude, but connectedness and inclusion that we're talking about that's it yeah that's right yeah very cool do you have a practice the the or anything that you're doing to help you i wish i had something as insightful as bone here but no i don't have anything but what do you do to keep your energy levels consistently high to meet the demands of the moment? I mean, I don't, I really like what I do. So I don't mind the long days.

I just, I generally enjoy being out here and doing this job. It's something that I've wanted to do as a kid. And I'm one of the few people in this world that when I was 10 years old, I wanted to be a fighter pilot and I'm 48 years old and i'm a fighter pilot and i'm still doing it there's yeah not a lot of people in the navy that get to have be flying at my age and so this is a privilege for me i believe every part of that because when i was when we were on the flight deck last night i was you could see it in my eyes i I'm sure. Right. Like, oh, my goodness. And you had it, too. When I looked at you, you were like your eyes were big like this is cool. Yeah.

Because people get to do it. Yeah. This is pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. So I think your answer is like, no, I really am connected to the love of what I get to do. What a cool way to go through life. How would you guide somebody who says, yeah, if I was in your boots, me too, but I'm, I'm, I'm doing this. And they point to some kind of seemingly meaningless part of the, the, the effort on the ship. I don't, can you reword that one more time? I don't understand what you you're asking. You're asking me, how do I get a sailor to understand what they do? Yeah.

So a sailor, somebody young on the ship, maybe it's their first time here. They're six months in. And they look at you like with this. Say they're 18 months in. There's some fatigue. There's some mundane, some redundancy. They can't see meaning and purpose in their job because they're mopping the floor. Let's say, and they say, well, of course, captain has that love because he's a pilot.

He gets to do that. And one day if I could do that, but I'm doing this nonsense every day. But when I was in college, I was mopping floors on, on, on ships as well. So you, you, you, you identify with them in that respect and explain to them like, this is, everybody starts here and then show them that you can do this too.

There's nothing holding you back from getting to where I'm at right now. That is the amazing thing. And I'll help you get there. The amazing thing about the name. Oh, wait, that ad. And I'll help you get there. Yes.

That's where you're going. Yeah, 100%. Not only is there a program, but like we'd love to have you doing what we do it is awesome yeah come do it with us yeah that that idea that you have to be about it walk the talk talk the walk i think that that is one of the central components of leadership because as soon as someone challenges you and you're not real and you've been fronting and and you just meet them with intolerance or frustration

it just doesn't i haven't seen it work i don't know if it works yeah at all i've got this quote over on the on the right side of my computer monitor you could probably see in the in the corner over there yes about like tape tape about being the master in the art of living and that it's like when you read it, you can't see the difference between when we're working or when we're playing. Yeah. It's so good. Yeah.

Is that how it feels to you? Oh, totally. Yeah. So that leads me to believe that you might be less expensive of an organism to run because you are running on joy and happiness, love and kindness, appreciation. From an energy perspective. Yeah. So from an energy.

So when you're running from intolerance, frustration, fear, anxiety, anger, resentment, it's very expensive. And we're living in a world where anxiety and depression, addiction, suicidality are not moving in the right trend direction. And when I, when I am in an anxious state, I'm more likely to be irritated and frustrated and I am more expensive to run. And so then my fatigue curve looks very different than what yours might look like, you know, so nice job being a model for that. That's really cool. So when we shift gears just quickly here, how do you fold the new sailors in to the rhythm of this ship?

What do you do as you bring them on? Well, the Navy has formalized programs for us to indoctrinate new folks, to welcome new folks, to mentor new folks. But most of the real work happens one-on-one it happens at the peer level and and someone finds the person they are going to hang on the hip of who's going to pull them through their qualifications to show them what right looks like on a daily basis deck plate level. And that is your approach on this ship or that's the Navy's approach? Like a mentor relationship?

I think both. That is we we certainly cultivate that on Ronald Reagan, but that is what I've seen work best every every ship I've served on. Ernie, did you have that person when you were coming through? Coming out here? Yes. A mentor that like someone on your hip to show you what quote unquote good looks like? Throughout my career, I think we've all, I mean, the mentor program is we, the Navy has a mentorship program that starts out when you first join. But I think we all, like we wouldn't, Bone and I wouldn't have gotten here without having

mentors that we reach out to both, you know, for me, it's, you know, not just the not just the offices but i have some you know senior enlisted folks that i'll reach out to if i have questions or or need some guidance there you go my smallest tightest tightest group of friends from my first tour have all ended up as aircraft carrier ceos oh you had a little pocket of excellence like we call it hotbeds you had a hotbed of excellence. Like we call it hotbeds. You had a hotbed. We did. Yes. Yeah. Was that some looking back? Is that something you guys talked about?

Like one day I'm going to, and the other person said the same thing. We talked about how we were going to continue to grow and contribute. To each other? To each other, to the Navy, to the nation. I see. It was about doing doing not about being. What does that mean? Well, it's that, you know, it wasn't like, hey, I want to be the commanding officer of an aircraft carrier.

It's like I want to do the things that only the commanding officers of aircraft carriers have the privilege to do. Oh, that's really interesting because i think what you're pointing to is like i'm not just trying to get the title so you so i can be important is that is that okay because i've i've got this approach is that i'm listening to world's best and tell me if this sounds right to you or you do not swallow any hook that i'm i'm providing here that they they meaning for historically best in the world would say i need to do the extraordinary to be extraordinary so i need to do the thing to be okay i need to do something great to be great and they're flipping the model right now saying, no, no, no, I need to be me. I need to be present. I need to be creative. I need to have a sense of being my very best.

And then the doing comes from there. But I almost think we're talking about two different concepts, but I wanted to see if we are or how you respond actually to that framing of what I just said. Yeah, to me, to me, it's about a growth and contribution thing. From a growth perspective, I'm trying to become the best me, right? I was divinely wired how I am, and it is my obligation to bring all of that out. Not so that I get some title or not so that I achieve more rank, get more pay, get more medals. It's so that I can serve to the utmost of my capacity and potential.

So you are trying to be your best, not the best. I don't think they're mutually exclusive, but my focus is on being my best. It's not about how I do relative to you or relative to anyone else. And it's to encourage the whole team to say, you know, we're all woven differently, right? Like we talked about earlier. What I want to do is help you get to be the best version of yourself because we got a big job in front of us here? I think that is so rare. It is so special to have the consistency over time of micro choices to choose my very best for that moment. And the consistency of that over time is so rare and special that those people end up being the best. Because it is so rare and special that that type of discipline and commitment that the outcomes end up taking care of themselves

but I would add a little bit more to that say that it's not just about the me it's about helping the folks around you get the most out of what they can do and that that will in turn help you get the most out of what they can do and that that will in turn help you get the most out of you like i don't i i could be the best i could be on this boat but if you know my department heads are need help being the best that they can be i'm never the organization we're never going to be successful i am i need my my mo and my operations officer and my intel. I need them to be the best because that allows me to focus on what the vision looks like. Okay.

So the 1980 version of this conversation for me was always nauseating, like self-help, like be your best. And it always felt like it was so hollow and empty that if i would get nauseated just thinking about how cheesy it sounded and then and what i so what i needed to do is say for what reason what what it's not for the big house big watch big money that's too fleeting for what reason and mine is really clear which is to help others be their best is that is that the the hit that you're dropping right now? That's what I'm trying to say. I have to make sure that everyone around me is their best.

And then that's what I'm striving for. I'm not so worried about myself as much as I'm worried about the other folks. That's interesting. So it's more like, are you putting your life vest on? That analogy, does it hold up? You put your life vest on and then help somebody put theirs on? Or are you saying, no, no, no, I'm getting everyone's life vest

and then I put mine on last? I think I'd go with the latter on that. I want to make sure that they're doing well, then I'll, if they're doing well, then I'm going to do well. That's super interesting. Yeah, it's like, it flashes up in the face of all of the training that you hear from

like traditional airlines, you know, like that idea of put your life on and then reach over to put your kids on. There's a time component of that, right? Like in, in the airline example, like, I mean, oxygen, something you need on the scale of minutes. I'm also drowning. What we're talking about. What, what we're, what, you know, in our business, it's superior performance over a longer period of time. Superior performance.

You know, it's funny is that you bring that up. Is that my first experience with the USS Truman, the first opportunity I had to work with similar ship. The commanding officer said, this was like 15, 20 years ago, and said, you know, Mike, can you send over, well, it was the chief of staff to be clear, can you send over the talking points? You know, we're really excited to have you on board, can you send over the talking points?

And so I sent him over and the title slide was something about peak performance, which this was a moment where I shifted my entire approach. He wrote back, it was like a big red mark across the PowerPoint and said, we're not interested in peak performance. We are interested in sustaining superior performance during wartime. And I said, oh my God, I'm such a rookie. Like, are you kidding me? Like, yes. So it really reframed how I thought about what we're really trying to do. And you just brought that word up again, sustaining superior performance. And it sounds like the model is we need to help each other be our very best.

And then that is the recipe for sustainable, superior performance. That's awesome. That's so inspiring for me. Yeah. That's awesome. That's so inspiring for me. Yeah. Yeah. That is great. Okay. A couple last little questions here.

Finish this. Finish this little thought stem. I am. Ernie, you go first. I'm happy. Satisfied. Connected. My vision is?

My vision, I mean, I got a lot of visions. If you just want like my professional vision is just, I want to make sure that this air wing is as prepared as it can possibly be. To maintain the USS Ronald Reagan in a state of maximum effectiveness. Maximum effectiveness. My purpose is? My purpose is to make sure that everybody in CAG 5 has an opportunity to succeed. I have three.

Am I stealing yours, Matt? You can go first. No, no, no. I have three things I center around. One is actualizing my potential. Two is preserving and protecting the national security of the United States and its vital interest.

And the third is to create and invest for impact. You guys are really thoughtful. Now I'm going to dumb it down a couple notches here, if you'll allow me. If you were a WWE wrestler, what would your call sign be? Who? I go with Big Earn. Yeah. Keep it simple.

Big Earn. Yeah. I don't know. With a name like Cardone, maybe, I don't know, the Italian stallion. The Italian stallion.

Oh my God. That is so funny. All right. You guys are awesome. Thank you for your, your guidance, your leadership. It feels like those are words that don't hold enough weight to the way I feel about

how you're governing your life and leading others and obviously the service to do something very dangerous very exacting and very complicated for the safety of many so thank you for all that you bring to this conversation and to the safety globally yeah thanks thanks for being here and investing in us and it's it's a pleasure to have you both i appreciate you being out here and let us uh show off what our sailors get to give get to do every day yeah yeah if i could just add one thing at the end as we close it's that you you know i i hope everyone listening to this uh leaves proud of the work that the the the youth of of America are doing out here.

You know, Ernie and I have the privilege to serve with the 1% of the nation that raises its hand and dons the cloth of our nation to go hard places, do hard work without a lot of recognition. And you know, I want the American people to know that they they're the tax money that goes towards the United States Department of Defense, the United States Navy and the sailors who serve out here. They are more than getting their money's worth. And I'm super proud of them. Awesome. If there is one mindset that you would hope the now generation invests in to get better at? What would that mindset be? Super open-ended question.

Always becoming. So like the mindset of becoming. Very cool. I never liked the idea that each generation is so vastly different that you have to identify them differently. I think that the men and women that serve in the, you know, this generation of men and women that serve in the military are no different than the men and women that served in the generations in the past. So I just, I don't like pinning them down in that way. Like, does that make sense? I just, people talk about how sometimes, like, how do you, how do you lead this generation of people like they're different than the last you, you, you lead

this generation, just like you led the last group of folks that came through. You, you treat them with respect and, and, and you, you hopefully give them an idea of why they're out here. Um, so I don't, I don't have anything that this generation should do any different than the past. Would would it would you point to purpose as something that you would want to call forward for people?

So we got becoming would you say purpose as a mindset, like being purpose based would be important? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So we're we're moving away this generation. We're just saying that the folks that you're hoping are going to serve in the right way, what mindset would you want them to have? I don't want to put purpose in there if it's not.

No, no. I have a purpose or better themselves. I mean, if they're striving to better themselves, then the service itself is going to get better as a whole. There you go. And we're hiring. They can come do it with us. Very cool. Appreciate you guys. Thank you again. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for your time. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community.

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