Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Holocaust Survivor Shares How To Live Free and Happy | Dr. Edith Eger

Episode Date: February 15, 2023

"I learned how to live, at a death camp."Dr. Edith Eger, a Holocaust survivor, clinical psychologist, and best-selling author shares the powerful lessons she learned from surviving Auschwitz and how she inspires individuals to live a life of fulfillment, happiness, and freedom.More on Dr. Eger:At the age of 16, Edie and her family were sent to Auschwitz – Edie’s parents were killed not long after arriving… but with bravery and incredible courage, Edie helped keep her and her sisters alive. After persevering through one of the greatest horrors in human history, Edie dedicated her life and career to helping others better understand trauma and overcome their limitations – helping them discover the power of self-renewal and achieve things they never thought possible. Her journey is awe inspiring, and her words of wisdom leave me hopeful and heartened that we can make it through even the darkest of times.We also have Jordan Engle here today – Edie’s grandson. Jordan is an accomplished storyteller in his own right, having spent the last 20 years working as a photographer and producer. His career has taken him around the world, but his latest adventure has him working right alongside his grandmother to help her tell her story, and spread her powerful message: that our greatest struggles can become our greatest gift._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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will never, ever happen again okay welcome back or welcome to the finding mastery podcast i'm your host dr michael gervais by trade and training a high-performance psychologist, and today I'm honored. I am humbled to welcome two remarkable guests to the podcast, Dr. Edith Eager and her grandson, Jordan Engel. This is a very special episode. We are being given a real gift today, and I say that from the bottom of my heart. This was a special conversation. The wisdom that people hold is remarkable.

And Edie holds so much. She is a clinical psychologist, a best-selling author, and a survivor of the Holocaust. At the age of 16, Edie and her family were sent to Auschwitz. Her parents were killed not long after arriving, but with incredible bravery and courage. She helped keep her sisters and herself alive after persevering through one of the greatest horrors in human history, Edie dedicated her life and her career to helping others better understand trauma and to overcome their limitations. Helping them discover the power of self-renewal and to achieve things that they never thought was possible. Her journey, it's awe-inspiring. And her words of wisdom, they leave me hopeful and

heartfelt and heartened that we can make it through even the darkest of times. We also have Jordan Engel here, Edie's grandson. Jordan is an accomplished storyteller in his own right, having spent the last 20 years working as a photographer and a producer. His career has taken him around the world, but his latest adventure has him working right alongside his grandmother to help tell her story and to spread her powerful message that our greatest struggles can become our greatest gift. If you haven't read Dr. Edie's books, The Choice and The Gift, I really want to encourage you to check those out. They are rich with insights and heartwarming and heart-wrenching stories and full of hard-earned wisdoms that somebody like Edie so eloquently expresses. Very much like this conversation. And I think that you can tell that I am deeply honored and humbled, again, to introduce her and her work to you.

So without further ado, let's jump right into this week's conversation with Dr. Edith Eager and Jordan Engel. So I just want to start by saying that, Edie, your work and the way that you've shared your life experiences with such depth and grace and wisdom had a profound impact on my life. And I know so many people across the planet. So thank you for this incredible contribution you've made to so many lives. And thank you for being here today. And I've been looking forward to meeting you for a long time. And then now, Jordan, we're going to be able to get to the work that you're doing a little bit later. But I wanted to start, Edie, because this insight insight I just can't wait to hear how you unpack the wisdom here you say that the worst prison is the one you build in

your mind I think change is synonymous with growth if you don't change you don't grow and so I welcome change I welcome. I look at in many, many ways at 95, how can I think young and be not smart but wise because I lived a very complicated, very challenging life. And I have yet to given up any moment that I can guide others to be survivors and not victims of any circumstance at any time with anywhere and any who. How do people build their own prisons in their own mind? What do we do to build that prison? Well, you want to know what's working for you at this time in your life, because a teenager is no longer a child, but they're not an adult yet until

you know 25 and so, and to be a realist rather than an idealist is a good idea. And check reality because some people live in cloud nine and they don't come ever to the place where they could be better heard and appreciated so i am sure that change is synonymous with growth and then i've heard you say i learned how to live in a death camp. That is a phenomenal insight. I learned how to live in a death camp. What does that mean to you? I learned to guide people to look at life from inside out. Don't wait for someone to make you happy. No one makes you happy. You make yourself happy.

The way you look at other people and the way you are realistic, but not idealistic. Because when the ideas come and they don't find exactly what they're looking for, they can be very mean. They have jokes that are not so funny. And I ask people to repeat what they said and what is the truth,

because it's all subjective. It is my truth and your truth. Edie, when you were in Auschwitz, you said it was the greatest classroom. What would you say that you learned in Auschwitz? What I learned in Auschwitz, that I am powerless. I may end up in a gas chamber, four o'clock in the morning.

Outside, we were waiting and waiting and standing. I didn't know if I make it that day. But I was able to pray for the gods. So if they would have found me, they would have found me praying for the gods who were brainwashed and called me a pariah. So don't take things personally. I think it's very important for you to not allow other people to define who you are. You're beautiful just the way you are because there'll never be another you, ever. How do you balance between everything I need

is right here within me, I'm okay just because I'm here. And at the same time, that tension that I'm trying to achieve something. I'm trying to grow something, build something. There's more inside of me to express. So that tension between being and doing. How do you manage that within yourself? I am not re-volving. I am evolving. So I grow to listen to the voices of other people who were not born with that fear that they are full of right now.

They created it. And I like to be useful. I don't ask, how can I help you? You know, you're not Humpty Dumpty. I'm not going to put you back together again. But I like to meet people where they are, but treat them as if they were what they are capable of becoming

how are you is the stupidest question oh gosh tell me more what is a better question happy i hope you're having a good day i like to know how I can be useful to you. Don't say I can help you. You don't know that. You don't know the other person. Just listen 99% and talk as little as possible and become a compassionate listener. You cannot be in trouble when you repeat what you hear. What does it mean to be a compassionate listener like how do you uniquely do that

you repeat verbatim what you hear people can fight with their own words uh but they get feedback from you. And any feedback is a gift. If I have lipstick on my eyes, and you're not telling me, and you're thinking that if you tell me I'm going to be hurt and you can't say, I know you're going to be angry at me right now. And change the but to and instead of yes, but. Because, you know, we do that. We tell a child, you're very pretty, but you're fat and but you're pimply.

Get rid of the but and change it to an and. There are two questions. One would be, when did your childhood end? Because people were never children. They had to be little adults, especially a child of an immigrant. That child learned English first, and I know my little girl introduced me to tuna fish and things like that, that I know nothing about. So I think it's very important for us to know who are we talking to because we are limited and not limitless.

And some people will tell you what they were taught. They were taught that Jews are pariah. And but we never kick into a dead dog. You know, I kind of take it as a compliment that you spend energy on me. I don't like what you say, but it doesn't mean I'm going to really do anything about it because it still is a free country and we can still practice free speech. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true. Meaningful relationships are at the center of sustained success. And building those relationships, it takes more than effort. It takes a real caring about your people. It takes the right tools, the right

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That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-r-o-t-e-i-n dot com slash finding mastery freedom so you have an incredible insight that you watched people once they were freed from the concentration camps and they had the responsibility to to move forward in their life that some would return that that is mind-boggling to me yeah I actually told my sister to come with me because I want to go back to that lion's den and look at the lion in a face and reclaim my innocence and assign the shame and guilt to the perpetrator see children blame but adults don't do that they they problem solve and they they look at the way how can be a win-win solution and i think you're a king to be able to do that. So I want to hand you a compliment that way. Edie, I think the context,

not that he shouldn't let that compliment land, because it's true, but the question was not necessarily when you returned 30 years later, but upon liberation, people would walk out of the concentration camp, which they had probably been dreaming about leaving. And they would come back and sit down.

So why would people do that? Because that was their familiar. You are getting brainwashed. You are told you are subhuman, that you're never going to get out of here. I heard that every day. They took my blood maybe a couple of times a week. And I asked one time, why are you taking my blood? I spoke German fluently. And he said, I'm taking your blood to aid the German soldiers so we can take care of Europe and consequently to take the whole world. And that was his answer.

And I said to myself, yeah, sure, that's what you say. And I do not take it personally. Anything that people say, I think about it. And I wonder, you know, whose problem is it? want to be an adult and not to sit in a back seat and let somebody drive I become the driver and that's going to have a price, a consequence What I know that story is, is what you say what you said in your mind was with my blood, good luck

winning the war I said to myself, with my blood you're never going to win this Because she was a dancer and she wasn't a fighter winning the war. I said to myself, with my blood, you're never going to win this. Because she was a dancer and she wasn't a fighter. Oh, look at that. Okay. I was a dancer, not a fighter.

My naive assumption was that you were fighting for your life the whole time that you were there. And so did you become a fighter at some point in your life? I am a fighter for connecting with people, learning from everyone, and hopefully for my human family, that I can be I and you can be you, but together we're going to be stronger than me alone or you alone. How do you forgive?

You are a beacon of hope for forgiveness. I think forgiveness has nothing to do that I forgive you for what you did to me i think forgiveness is what it says forgive myself permission to be free and not allow anything or anyone at any time take over that i'm in charge of my thinking i'm in charge of my thinking, I'm in charge of my feeling, and also I'm very much in charge of my behavior. So if I want to say anything, I ask myself, is it important? Is it necessary? And most of all, is it kind? If it's not kind, I don't say you asked was when was she a fighter a dancer and one thing that i've always heard from her throughout my life is this idea of being a dancer and that you can have grace in moments that can be life or death.

And there were so many moments within her surviving Auschwitz, where she danced, be it for Mengele, be it doing cartwheels between one line, which was gonna lead to death, the other line leading back to Magda. And- You have to think very quickly. You don't have time to think about it.

You have to think very quickly. And I started to do the cartwheels and get his attention. So Magda could run over in the meantime so we can be together. So if you ask Mag magna she tell you she take care of me if you ask me I tell you I took care of her the fact is if you had somebody there with you you did better and can you for the for the audience who hasn't had the chance to know who Magda is, can you explain your relationship with Magda? My Magda died just a few weeks ago. She would have been 102 years old yesterday.

Oh, really? January 23rd is her birthday. So Magda had a very good life. She was a big, big bridge player as well. Who is Magda? Magda is my sister. She was the first daughter to my parents. And then Clara came, who was the middle child.

And then they waited for a boy, and I came along. So I was, I'm glad my mother told me something that I remember. I'm doing something about it. But remember, she said, I'm glad you have brains because you have no looks. I thought I was really ugly, so I have to be smart. I've read that that hurtful insult has actually served you really well. I think change is really synonymous with growth. So that's why I tell people, don't call me a shrink call me a

stretch and you also told me this morning the struggle makes you stronger the struggle suffering makes you stronger and victim the difference between suffering and victimhood can you talk about the different mindsets I think you cannot be a victim without a victim are you carrying and not to think that you cannot change. You cannot change your blood, but you can change the way you respond to anything, whether you take it personally or not. But I usually say a lot of thank yous. You tell me that you're an idiot and I say thank you because you're giving me your opinion and I will not change that. What is the truth? It is my truth and that is your truth. You feel free.

That you've opened up a way to live where you are free. And how would you help people experience the level of freedom that you have i think freedom is not freedom without responsibility so you want to be childlike but not childish you talk about the car do you want to be driving the car or do you want to be driven? I want to be at the driver's seat, which comes with responsibility. With freedom without responsibility, you know, it's anarchy. I think it's very important whether I want to be a grown-up. And that means I don't say anything unless I think about it whether it's important whether it's necessary and whether it's good timing time is everything t-i-m-e four letter

word people ask me now how do I want to be remembered I want to be remembered that i did everything in my power to see to it that what i have experienced will never happen again do you remember your first day in auschwitz every moment every moment I remember what happened people say I overcame no I did not I remember I went to have steak at Ruth's Steakhouse and I was walking on cobblestones and it triggered that's a good word they triggered something in me when we were walking walking walking walking and children were spitting at us and called us dirty Jews and swine pigs and so on. And I felt so sorry for the children that they were brainwashed to hate me. So what happened, I took care of German families in a military hospital,

and a little child jumps in my lap and calls me Omar. What do you say to people who are suffering right now that are angry, that are struggling with hope, that are so anxious that they feel as though they can't get everything they want to get done done and they're over like people that are really suffering from trauma in their life what they they don't feel free get in touch with two words always and never I always do that i never gonna have any i never find a man and i tell that woman if i were a man i would run from you you may come through what you feel

so the words always and never yeah always and Yeah, always and never. And to do. What do you mean, always, never? I can change from minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day. I'm not the way I was 50 years ago. I'm much better now. I think before I say anything and ask myself, is it really what I want to say? Or I just want to say to make that person feel better.

I don't do that. You said something there, and I just feel like it's important, that you can always change. That this idea that we get stuck in an idea in a in a vision of ourselves and you say i'm never going to be different i'm always going to be like get rid of those friends and and i think you can change if you want to yeah you have to want to but i cannot make you want to i'm powerless finding mastery is brought to you by Momentous. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday, what you put

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off. I think that people want to change and they don't know how to do it. And that in and of itself is really frustrating and scary. And is your way in to help people change is to accept them for who they are, positive, unconditional positive regard? Is that the biggest leverage you have to help people change well that couple of questions very simple what am i doing now and secondly is it working you know it's such a good question yeah it's such a good question is it how's it working for you? When I came from Germany to America, you know, I could see the ship changing when we went to Britain because of the weather. But we didn't go to China. We came back because we came from Germany to the Statue of Liberty and so you got to hopefully

have a goal and also so pay attention what you're paying attention to anything you pay attention to, you reinforce that very behavior that you may want to extinguish. Change your thinking, you change your life. I love that insight. Jordan, you had a thought as well? The context of the story of Edie going to America and leaving the direction that she was intending on going, but ultimately that the ship came back to get to America. And it's the idea, that analogy, that in our life, we have a direction we're expecting to get to. And she knew where she wanted to go, but it wasn't a direct route to get there. And that's okay. You sometimes have to go around the

storms in order to get where you need to go. And so sometimes when you're going around that storm, you're pointed the wrong direction. But in fact, you needed to go that way so that you could come back around successfully to get where you wanted to go. And I think we a lot of times find ourselves going the wrong direction and wondering why are we going this direction? This is wrong. This is not where we're meant to go. But in fact, it is at some level part of what you had to do in order to get around that storm and get back to where you wanted to go. And I think the key element, and she talks about this all the time is is to have that arrow and we we talk a lot about that in the course and and we've talked about that in my life and um you know where where

do we have an arrow yes where do we try to get to and having that a destination in mind gives you so much freedom because now you can wake up in the morning with an agenda. I'm trying to get here. And I think that to me has been a pivotal change. Can each of you describe what that I'm trying to get here is? Like what is the here for you, Jordan? And what is the here for you, Edith? And because I'm imagining that you're using your imagination to think forward to the person you want to be and or the things you want to do. And I would love if you could make it more concrete, because it's a really powerful suggestion that you're onto right now. I'll start because edie's is very well uh cemented which makes it easier for me to be around her because she has it so well cemented um mine has been in transition throughout my life

and i've followed a handful of different arrows but what i've since seen what happened with edie over the last five years and the impact that her message is having on humans just how I mean we work together so I read a lot of the messages that come in and they are absolutely the most powerful message of gratitude from from her readers and it's clear to me that I've grown up with this message. So I was a beneficiary of it without realizing I was so lucky to be that. And so I feel an obligation to help project her message to this world in as many ways as possible, because I see that it is a powerful, powerful message and that it is doing something for people that I believe is so vital. And I have two young boys, two and a half year old twin boys.

And I look at the mass shootings in this world. I look at the so many things that scare me as they're going to grow up and go into this world. I look at the, so many things that scare me as they're going to grow up and go into this world. And so the more I can do personally to help people who have trauma, because I think that that is the group that mostly inflicts the pain onto others are people who had a lot of trauma as they were young and they were the victims of victimizers. And so if we can help to let people know that that suffering that you went through can be looked at in two different ways, and it can be looked at as an excuse to become a dark, heavy person, or it can be a way for you to realize that you are a survivor of something very challenging and that that quality of surviving is something unique and powerful and beautiful and you have the opportunity to go into

the world stronger for what happened to you i think that that shift from one way of looking at your life to the other is monumental so for me my my my north star is to help that story get told in as many ways as possible. Very cool. And so Jordan, are you working on, is your arrow or your vision, is it the person you want to be, or is it the things you want to do? That's a great question. In this capacity is the things i want to do and i have seen in my life that the more i'm focused on the things that i want to do the more i am the person i want to be um because wow okay everything is temporary You may don't like what's going on right now, but hopefully that you can go through the valley of the shadow of death, whatever it is that it's good to think about your thinking

and pay attention what you're paying attention to anything you pay attention to, you reinforce the very behavior, maybe that you really want to extinguish. So it's it's good to be hopefully congruent. That's a good word. congruence. congruence. What does congruence mean to you what does congruence mean to you congruent means that I can be what I choose to be I will not try to be um anything that I'm not because that's fake. I think before I say anything, whether it's useful, whether it's important, but most of all, is it kind? And so the older I get, the more I listen. There's a student of mine who tells me that he heard that in America,

people are hearing, but they're not listening. So I said, test it out. And tomorrow morning, someone is going to give you a hello. And you say quietly, my mother died this morning. The other guys said, oh, great. I'll see you this morning. The other guys said, oh great, I'll see you this afternoon. They're hearing, but they're not listening. So today is a very good day for people to become good listeners.

Talk less, listen more. What does your heart ache for, Edie? I think my heart wants to be warm and wants people to discover, not recover, but to discover not recover but to discover their freedom and assume the responsibility that

comes with it because freedom without responsibility is anarchy the power of love and the definition of love is the ability to let go. Let go of the need for other people's approval. As long as you approve of you, that's good enough yeah the approval of other people I've noticed in my life

has been a significant barrier for me and it's what I'm researching right now is the power of approval and acceptance you say that all therapy is grief work power of approval and acceptance.

You say that all therapy is grief work, not only what happened, but what didn't happen. Can you tell me more about that? What would you say if you were me? I would say if I was answering that question, yeah, I would say that we are all suffering. We have all experienced trauma. And the process of therapy is to make sense of that trauma and to figure out how to heal to be free and it's in the relationship between the two people where that healing most of that healing takes place and it's the work that the

individual does on their own to feel a sense of autonomy and internal power to be able to choose how they experience their life people tell me that they're gonna deal with it you know you're not a dealer um I deal with it I don't know what that means I want to say what plans do you have where do you begin where do you find an arrow that you follow that if you go from here to there, you're not going to go this way or that way? I know when a couple goes home from a party and a wife said, would you please stop by? I need to get a loaf of bread.

Why didn't you tell me that? Makes sense. When he wants to hear it right now, don't interrupt me because I know I'm going from here to there. These people were not making it very well in a concentration camp because four o'clock in the morning, you had no idea whether you're ever going to make it that day or not. It's minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day. You had to be flexible.

You got to be flexible and not rigid. Wow. Rigid people People black and white all or nothing. You know Michael this is like this idea about being a fighter or a dancer and I think a lot of people went to Auschwitz to be fighters and I don't think that always worked. I think the survivors were more dancers because you had to be able to flow. And Edie had trained her whole life to be able to flow. And not to take things personally.

Living in a death camp, seeing so much death, embracing your own death, what is your relationship with death? How do you think about the dying experience? That it's going to happen. That I really cannot do anything about except living life and every moment because you don't appreciate what we have until we lose it.

So for me, every moment is a tremendous help. When I was at Oprah and she asked me about how I was liberated and I looked up and all I saw was a lip. I've never seen such big lips. And she got up and she said, he was black. And then I looked at his eyes and he was looking at me and guess what he gave me m ms i wish i could meet that wonderful young man who touched my hand and saved my life wow how old were you at this time? I was by then 17 years old. Then I met my husband and I got married. I had a child at 19 and came to America penniless, went back to school. I remember my supervisor asked me when I was 40, where I'm going with

my life and I told him, I don't know. And he said, well, you got to know. And I said that, well, what would you do? And he said, well, if I were you, I would wonder what can I do in my limited capacity. And I said, you know, by the time I finish, I may be 50. And he said, you'll be 50 anyway. You cannot change your chronological number, but my attitude is what's important. I don't look at the number. I look at the attitude that hopefully I can do something to make this world more of a human, wonderful meeting that we can inherit each other, whatever we have within us. And I think children need good role models. I hope to be a good one.

Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised me the most is how much it actually helps regulate temperature. I tend to run warm at night and these sheets have helped me sleep cooler and more consistently, which has made a meaningful difference in how I show up the next day for myself, my family, and our team here at Finding Mastery. It's become part of my nightly routine. Throw on their lounge pants or pajamas, crawl into

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and they reflect the kind of intentional living that I want to build into every part of my day. And they make my morning routine really easy. They've got some great new products I think you'll be interested in. A shampoo, conditioner, and a hair serum. With Caldera Lab, it's not about adding more. It's about choosing better. And when your day demands clarity and energy and presence, the way you prepare for it matters. If you're looking for high quality personal care products that elevate your routine without complicating it, I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash finding mastery and use the code finding mastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash finding mastery. Jordan, like what a, what a privileged position you have in this world to, um, to, to be underneath and with either, uh, wisdom and guidance, like, uh, what tell, can you tell us

like what you're doing now? Um, like the business that you're building to help people work from the inside out? And can you tell us more about that? So I've been helping Edie with her social media, and it's been just the most beautiful experience because everything that she says and we put out there just gets this beautiful feedback and comments. And it's, you know, I've, I've had my own social media and it's like the most depressing thing, but then Edie's it's like, it's like, it's like gold falling from the sky. And I've realized what I, what I saw on this pattern was that people really engaged so beautifully with her books and with her writing

but what needed to happen was to continuously engage with it because when you read something and it's really a powerful book it'll change you but what happens a year later two years later unless you're probably not going to reread that book so it just sort of filters back into your subconscious and maybe it'll stay front and present but I I saw that this message was so powerful and what was needed was for somebody to be able to go deeper and to and to revisit the message and to go and actually go through sort of a handheld exploration of Edie's work. And so it felt, and with sort of the movement online through 2020, I wanted to do a course. And I wanted to have Edie teach this course, but I realized that somebody had to work alongside Edie to make the course really

flow. Edie shoots from the hip and beautifully, you don't know what you're going to get, but it's always genius. This is one of the most amazing qualities that Edie can teach you, which is don't plan too much. But for a course, I knew we had to plan what the thing that the people who were going to take this course were going to go through. And so I decided that I should be the other person in this course to interview Edie. And so the two of us created this really magical 10 module five-hour experience where people go and they start with with finding a north star and a lot of sort of you know humming and hawing about how do I find that north star and people realize at that moment they don't have one and I think

that's a it's a it's as important as knowing that you have one is knowing that you don't have one and then and then the course takes people on a journey and we work develop curiosity and that helped me more than anything else I wanted to know what's going to happen next. So if a guide leaves you, don't take it personally, just say next. And there you are, curious. That helped me very much to survive, that I knew that I'm not going to die in Auschwitz, even though I was told that I'm not going to die in Auschwitz, even though I was told that I'm never going to get out of here alive. And so not to take things personally is something that you are a brilliant teacher for saying such things that people look at the same thing from a different perspective.

I think that is the root. That right there is exactly what the course is about, which is looking at the things that you've experienced in your life and being able to see them from a different perspective. And if you look at Jesus, he said, love thy neighbor as thyself. He's telling you that self-love is self-care. It's not narcissistic. He also knew how to listen to other people and meet them where they are. But treat them as if they were what they're capable of becoming. listen to other people and meet them where they are,

but treat them as if they were what they're capable of becoming. But thirdly, I look at the same thing from a different perspective. And I think that's what he said when he said, turn the other cheek. If I turn the other cheek, I look the other cheek i look at you looking at me from a different perspective last question for me and i want to um i also well two questions where can

people go get the course what's the best resource for people to get to the course to work through this process of deep transformation where do we go um so the course is called unlocking your potential which i've noticed or is language that i see a lot in in your work so it that was that was very as as that was a nice uh a nice um and you mentioned your name too. Oh, awesome. Yeah, there's a lot of synergy. And I'm so excited for our community to those that are unfamiliar with your work to become familiar with it and to go check out unlockingyourpotential.com. Is that the place? The best, the easiest way to get there is to go search Edith Eager and go to her website. And then her website will take you to the company that we started, which is called Soul Search. And Soul Search is, we created it to do Edie's course. But now we're doing a few other courses. We actually have one that we're working on now with my mother, who I really want you to meet, because she's also an amazing sports psychologist.

And you guys would have a lot to talk about. yeah I'm gonna I have to connect you to him and she's a small world yeah very cool it's amazing um honestly I was so as I was learning about you I was like oh my god he has to be my mom um so we're doing how fun is that we're doing a course with Edie and my mom on parenting because my mom was a sports psychologist and also a child psychologist and so that's the next thing that we're working on and and it's so fun because i get to work with my mom and my grandmother it's on parenting and they parented each other and i'm like the next so it's very you know it's very meta but we grieve over not what happened but what didn't happen you You know, I didn't have teenage years.

I didn't have a date and dump the guy and then pick another one and dump it. I didn't have that experience. I had a boyfriend and he told me I have beautiful eyes and beautiful hands. And I would go to anyone in Auschwitz and ask, tell me about my hands. Tell me about my eyes. Because I knew that tomorrow I'm going to meet my boyfriend. Tomorrow was a very important word in Auschwitz. She had an arrow in Auschwitz. Even I was told that I'm never going to get out of here alive.

I didn't take it. Wow. I feel so lucky to have been able to learn from you right now. And the model that you are carrying for me is significant. So thank you. And I just want to be clear that the gentleman that grabbed your hand, was that the soldier that saved you from the pile or that found you in the pile of bodies? Is that? That's the one. And if he's still alive, please I want to thank you in person

and make you Hungarian goulash I feed you yeah look at that you're amazing I feed you too I would love some Hungarian goulash Jordan maybe we go for a surf.

The surf first, because there's no surfing after Hungarian goulash. Too much. Okay, so we talked about death, and let's talk about what you hope for, for life. I hope that we get to know each other. We find the Hitler within us. You find the Mother Teresa within us, that we become the people the way you will want to be remembered. I hope to be remembered as someone who did everything in her power to see to it that what she experienced will never ever happen again i'm all for prevention dr edie thank you george what a gift yeah thank you both for your

time and your wisdom and um for including me and our community on your path. My book has recipes in the back, and I hope that you will try one or two. All the best. Okay. Thank you guys so much. And please let me know if there's anything I can do to continue to support your mission. Thank you. Thank you, Michael.

It's a real pleasure. Thank you. Really. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support

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is to talk to a licensed professional. So seek assistance from your healthcare providers. Again, a sincere thank you for listening until next episode be well think well keep exploring